Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Ben Schwartz

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Ben Schwartz (Ben Schwartz & Friends, Parks & Rec, Middleditch & Schwartz and more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 00:48 Improv Tours 4:15 Social Media Addiction 9:28 Self-worth tied to job 24:33 People Pleaser 36:31 Relationships vs. Work 45:47 Staying Connected  ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsor: Visit https://betterhelp.com/NEAL for 10% off your first month. Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guys hi, Neil Brennan, blocks. Um... That was the whole intro? Go. Yesterday, you're, he's a comedian, actor, improviser, right? Writer. He's got a long form improv tour and show. It's called Ben Schwartz and Friends.

And you do huge venues, which I'm like, which tells me the show must be good. That's good. Because no one's ever done improv like that I'm aware of on a big tour. I think that the venues that we're playing are, we're oftentimes the first time improv has ever played these venues, yeah. So there've been touring improvisers

and touring like UCB tour, but it would be smaller places or colleges. How did you, it can only be word of mouth, right? Well, I guess you did the... You and Middle Ditch did the Netflix... Yeah, Thomas and I did Largo as Middle Ditch and Schwartz, and then we did it at UCB, we did it at Largo, and Thomas really wanted to tour, and I was like, I don't want to tour. And then he convinced me to tour.

And then we went out and we sold out, we'll see who cares, and we sold out these smaller venues and then a little bit bigger, right? Then we did the specials and then I started touring Ben Schwartz and friends and was like, let's see how big we can go. And then started to stretch it a little bit

and we started to like almost sell out, then we did sell out and so I just kept going. But I wonder how big, I feel like for what you do, you can point to Kevin Hart or Chappelle or anybody and be like, well, they do arenas for what we're doing what we're doing, middle sports. And we're doing with Ben Schwartz and friends. There's no person for me to point to yet to be like long form improv works in this venue. And I think like when we did radio city, I was like, well, this feels like too many people. This feels like 6,000 is a lot. We can do Chicago theater, which is one of

my favorite theaters is 3,600. And that feels like, I feel like we're doing it because we're so used to doing shows for 90 people in a tiny black box theater. That's what improv is usually long form. So we're pushing it. And like I did Royal Albert Hall this year and that felt like it worked.

And you know, just, it's been really fun. Anytime I talk to a established standup, usually the way that you guys think about improv, I find is, cause also you're, you come from an old school background as opposed to like not someone who just came up in the past. Yeah. You're more of a Berkshires guy.

I've seen you in your puppet, but, and I feel like that sometimes improv to you guys was like, this isn't, this isn't as big of a whatever. So I think we're with this show and with, you know, things that we're trying to show like, oh, we can do this. We can be a part of this world. So I think we're with this show and with, you know, things that we're trying to show like, Oh, we can do this. We can be a part of this world.

We can, you know, put our foot in, we can do really good shows that are entertaining. Um, but I wonder what your thought is. Well, I was worried about the consistency because if it's not written, I'd be, I would be, but I guess it's structured enough and you just assume you just assume the best about your ability. I think it's, I've done like probably 1500 shows now.

I've done so many shows. So you don't, your rate of failure is way less. And also you're on stage with, I'm on stage with three other people. If I'm having an off show or if someone, we're going to pick each other up. Yeah. That's the thing about,

I did stand up for a tiny bit at the beginning. And when I succeeded, it was like exciting. Although there was nobody at the beginning for me to look at and be like, I did what? Like, because everybody was just, it was just bringer shows, or it was like your first show. And nobody's like, it didn't feel like a team effort

kind of for stand up. For improv, when you fail, you go back with your friends and be like, God, what did we do wrong? That was, you know, and you're like, oh, that was a bad show. And when you succeed, you all succeed together. And I love that teamwork. And I love the idea of coming on stage with nothing and like a magic, that was a bad show. And when you succeed, you all succeed together. And I love that teamwork. And I love the idea of coming on stage with nothing

and like a magic trick, creating an entire show out of nothing. Like I love that idea. Yeah, I love the teamwork part, the creating it on the fly part I wouldn't like. Really? I just wouldn't. I like improvising, but I like improvising from a script.

Yeah, but I can hear some episodes I'm funny and some I'm not. Like I just kinda like. You don't put pressure on yourself. You're like, this doesn't have to be, that's not what the show is. And I also don't, I don't even know which ones people like more.

Really? Yeah, people don't, no one ever says the podcast is hilarious. Really? No, which it's not. So like- Do you look at comments? No. Really? No. Wow, it's not. So like- Do you look at comments? No, but- Really?

No. Wow, that's huge. Yeah, I'm off Instagram. Oh, that is- Four months, five months. Sounds like- Twitter, I'm barely- So tell me the before and after of dropping Instagram.

I don't need to throw up myself. It's not up to, how I feel is not up to other, if I'm gonna feel shitty, it's gonna come from me. That's interesting. And it is, it is. And what about if you wanna feel good though? If you get positive affirmation. It's gotta come from me.

I, yeah, that's, because that's the gamble. It's like, you might, you might, you get a lot of approval on social media. But the disapproval is 10 times more potent. Yes. So it's not- That one bad one is what I look at way more than anybody else. It's not worth it. Yeah, it's not worth it.

So I have somebody post videos, my followers have gone up, I had nothing to do, it's literally clips from here and standup clips. I have no idea if something's viral or not. And you don't care to know? I don't care, you don't think about it. It's like when you quit anything, quit sugar,

after three days you don't think about it. If you quit, or breaking up with somebody. What do you feel the time with that was taken up by social media? Reddit, I'm kidding. Hilarious. I mean, I do spend more time, but I like Reddit. I don't even know.

I don't, I'm not aware that it's time to be filled. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not like, oh. I'm very envious, I'm truly envious. You could do, what are you doing? What are you getting from it? I think for me, my shows, I'm the only publicity for the shows.

I guess I could hire somebody. So I'm the only publicity for the shows. I guess I could hire somebody. So I'm the only publicity for the shows. So I like posting about them. I'll like put up other clips to get people excited about them. Or like there's a show I might try to start selling. So I started taking an old thing that had aspects of that show

and reposting them to see if they do well. So it's like, I'm trying to use it as a business thing. I don't really share my life ever on it. It's more like this is shows, this is something funny. This is a Sonic thing. I do, I'm in that Sonic movie. So it's like, I'll do stuff like that. But the, I find me being very open here is like, I find that posting is obviously takes time,

but me looking at what people are saying about the posts is just a, it's just a time suck. It's just like, and you're right. I'm looking, what am I looking for? I'm probably looking for the bad thing. You're asking to get ping-ponged. You're asking to get ping ponged. You're asking to get batted around by literally robots sometimes.

It also sometimes makes me feel like I just need my brain to chill out for a second. I'm always going like this. I need my brain to chill out for a second. I think this is me making my brain be dumb for a second. And I don't think it's the healthiest way of doing that. I also think it's not slowing it down. No, probably not, right?

It's looking for dopamine. Yeah, and it's getting cortisol. This is probably what's happening. Every time I think about it, that if I like, I told you like when we talked about the, you standing in five blocks, I was like, I think getting off social media, or like being less on social media would be one of my blocks.

I want to not let that, I don't know why, but it's, I feel like, I think getting off social media or like being less on social media would be one of my blocks. I want to not let that, I don't know why, but I feel like it's also, you feel isolated a little bit in our business. If I'm writing a script, I'm totally by myself. And then I'm home and I'm doing family stuff. And there's like, and this is a way for me to kind of be like, oh, this person is doing this or this person is doing this. Maybe that's it.

But I think I'm finding excuses. I could be calling people during that time. Right, but the other, but even that thing of like, what are other people doing? but I think I'm finding excuses. I could be calling people during that time. Instead of whatever. Right, but even that thing of like, what are other people doing? It ends up just being opposition research. Meaning you're not, I never go good, so-and-so sold out Madison Square Garden.

I'm like, what the fucking, why didn't I tell you that? People I like, people I like. I'm like, yeah. It's what did I fucking tell that? People I like. People I like. I'm like, yeah. It's not helping. I do it enough. My brain is pretty well trained to do it on its own. To be sort of, to look at things negatively.

Like, so I've gotten, I've had to make a concerted effort to like stop. And I, you just don't miss it. You don't even, you don't, it, I don't rem, it's like a place you just don't miss it. You don't even, you don't, it, I don't, it's like a place you just don't go anymore. It's like a restaurant and you just kinda like, ah, I don't know, I just stopped going. Yeah.

Or a gym or whatever, whatever, a thing you do and then you don't do. A type of music you listen to and then you stop. I was sometimes very envious for people who weren't on social media when, I've done this thing where I don't really, like when something happens in the world and how people expect you to make a statement online,

I was like, the people who are on social media don't have to deal with that at all. I like, that's not what this is. This place isn't for that, I don't think. But I was like, the people that are detached from it or just like post a little bit. So I've been, I don't follow many people on Instagram so I can't do this for a while.

And I don't let myself go more than like an hour a day. But of course, I'm sure I hit that hour. But it's like, when I'm touring, that's when I'm on it. I'm in my hotel room, I'm by myself. I don't have my computer with me, so I can't write usually when I'm touring. So it's like, so that's when I'm just like, trying to just chill myself down after a show

or after traveling all day. I find myself, that's where I live on it a lot. But I hate that it has such a grip on me. I don't think there's been, only when I'm really busy do I not look at it. And you're right, I don't remember it even for a second. But it is something I've been thinking about more and more being like, man, I gotta,

I'm not even as bad as a lot of my friends, but I'm like, I don't like how I go to it. I just go to it almost like an instinct. Yeah. I don't even think about it. Cigarettes my friends, but I'm like, I don't like how I go to it. I just go to it like almost like an instinct. Yeah. I don't even think, I'm not even think about it. Cigarettes. It's this, this, yeah, exactly. Well, all right, here's a good block.

Not linking my self-worth with my job. Yeah. I can relate because when did you start trying to be in show business? I never thought it was possible to me. It was like being an astronaut. It was like I'd heard of people. I know, yeah. It was impossible, it used to It was like I'd heard of people. I know.

Yeah. It was impossible. It used to be impossible. I didn't know one. I had never met one famous person in my life. Yeah. And then when I was in college, I did improv. I did short form improv.

But I like, I was so afraid to fail that I wouldn't do stuff in high school. So I really wanted to be in the musical, but I was like, I'm not going to audition. And people tell me I'm bad at this. I don't want to deal with that. So I didn't audition, even though I loved singing. I was in all these singing groups, I didn't wanna do it.

So for college, the same way, I didn't do the improv team for the first few years, because I was like, in my group, I was considered one of the funny guys. I was like, I don't wanna find out from the people who are funny that I'm not funny. Like, it's too scary to me, so I never did it. And then I had a girlfriend at the time

that pushed me and forced me to audition. I had a terrible audition. What year is this? This is 2002. I got on terrible audition. What year is this? This is 2002. I got on the team and slowly I was one of the people that people would come and see and get excited for. So all of a sudden I'm getting a little bit of confidence now, not narcissism, just enough confidence to be like, I think I can get on stage and make people laugh. And then, so 2002 is my first improv team. And then I went to Upright

Citizens Brigade in New York. I was a bartender there. I was also an intern there so I can get free classes and I took classes and that's when I really started. What year is that? 2003. So I've been doing it for 22 years now. Improv, long form improv.

And this idea of I need to decouple my silver seam from my job. Yes. It runs counter to what the, when it's all you care about. I guess what I'm saying is I understand. I forgive you because like for conflating your self worth with, or, or, or having them inextricably linked to each other. Cause where else are you gonna get it?

Where else are you gonna get it? Do you think that it's necessary to have that link at the beginning? Yeah. Because that's what's pushing you for it to mean that much to you is- You're gonna move? You're not gonna move for a thing you're kind of-

Yeah, that's right. Vaguely interested in. Yeah. You're gonna tell everyone that you're're going to see people judge you for your choice and think you're an idiot for doing it or an egomaniac or who do you think you are? Right. So a buddy of mine, it reminded me of something a friend of mine said one time, which is anyone who moves to New York was beaten by their parents.

Meaning like, why would you live this way? Right, right, right, in a tiny, tiny apartment for no money. Yeah, I understand like it becomes, and also that's every movie, every story we're told is like, you got to dig, you're a dreamer. And you're a, so yeah, of course, that's how you're gonna think of it. When did you realize that you should stop being that way?

When did you think of it as a block? Like who said, which girlfriend said you were to careerist? It was more me, it was more I was something bad would, or like I wouldn't get something and it would really bum me out, or I'd have a bad show and it would really, at the beginning man,'d have a bad show and it would really, at the beginning, man, when I had bad shows, I would be so hard on myself.

A day? A day of being bad. Man, at the beginning would be days. But it's so funny, when I first started, it would be days. I had a bad improv show, I had a bad sketch show. I would be like, I feel so disappointed. Or if it's in front of somebody that mattered to me, I'd really feel disappointed.

This person thinks that that's what I'm like now, I think I can do better than that. But once you do it long enough, you have a big enough body of work or if it's in front of somebody that mattered to me, I'd really feel disappointed. This person thinks that that's what I'm like now. I think I can do better than that. But once you do it long enough, you have a big enough body of work where you can be like, you know, I've known this for a long time, this show's great. This one was pretty good,

but I feel like after a while, all our shows, I don't, for our long form improv shows, probably I'm saying this now, we don't bomb ever. You know what I mean? We're gonna have either a good show or a great show, or for me, I've done so many shows that I know kind of when I'm happy and not, but the audience has no idea.

They haven't done 1500 shows. They don't know that I've, you know, so it's like, I know how to kind of save shows now and stuff like that. But, you know, I'll be hard on myself now for very little time, maybe an hour or two after. We just had a show where the ending, and improv, you gotta kind of, same with standup. You gotta nail that ending.

If I miss the edit for the show and our show goes like two more minutes longer, the audience remembers that two minutes so much and that like the, the energy is like down here all of a sudden. And me, I am in that two minutes, I'm like excruciating on stage, I'm like, oh man, you fucking, could have called the blackout. You didn't, now we got to find a new one, invent a new one.

And then I'll, so I'll, there's a show that was a really good show and then ended just a little bit, two minutes too late. And I was worrying about that two minutes for maybe three hours and then I was good. We talked to teammates about it and they're like, what are you talking about? I'm always the one that overthinks it.

So what did you, do you think that's just aging? Yeah. You got a big enough body of work that it was like, it's generally pretty good. It's not as precious. I've done three stand-up shows this week. Two of them were not good. Really?

But that's you working new shit out. Yeah, but it hurts and then you're like, then you sleep and you don't even remember. I feel like part of your guys' process is you have to go through that part though. For improv, there isn't like, we have to have a bad show to get a better show because we're not reworking the same material ever. ever. Everything is brand new. So it's like,

yeah. But I think the self-worth thing, I think it was a matter of like if I was comparing myself to somebody and like I wasn't doing what they were doing in the industry or if I didn't get a job, I'd be like, oh man, maybe I'm terrible at this, I must be terrible at this. And then like I'm sad in my life for a day or so. And I'm like, oh, I gotta, it was earlier, but I was like, I gotta make sure that this, this thing doesn't affect like who I am as a human being and understand the two separate things. That was big, I think.

Because you can always look at someone who's doing better. Always. Yeah, you're right. Comparing the thing, and I actually advocate this, compare yourself to people lower than you. Really? Yes, why does it have to be people that are better than you? I mean, if you want real perspective,

if you actually want perspective, look at the grand scheme, don't just look, the problem is we always look up, we're always looking up. Because we probably wanna go. Yeah, But if you think about all the people that are looking up to us, not with reverence, just the people that like on the ladder or the pecking order, momentarily you're above somebody. Yes. Appreciate that. Call them, say, fuck you and your friend. You're never gonna be up here. That's smart.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really talk down to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I'm serious, like I compare, people compare up. It's like compare yourself, if you do both, how about that? I think there's a place also I remember in my career I was like, well, I don't wanna be so famous that I can't like move around or be,

I don't wanna be like the biggest movie star in the world. So I don't have to look at the biggest movie stars and be like, Oh my God, I need that. Cause I was like, I don't think I, I don't think I want that life. I don't want to, I like the, the engagement on the streets are great. It's like, you know, cause I'm not up there. I'm like at this fun little nerdy level where people know me, they're excited to see me. But like, so I really like that. So I don't have to compare myself. I don't need to be that. Um,

but I think there's a lot of you being semi-content with it. I feel like if I'm doing the type of roles I'm doing now and I get to be in these shows that I'm in now, I would be fine riding this type of wave for a while. It would be amazing. It would be amazing to be in a Steven Spielberg movie, of course, or a Quentin Tarantino movie. That would be amazing.

I would do that in an instant. But it's like, I am pretty happy with the roles I've been doing lately. I was like, if I can keep doing these kind of roles, amazing. And I could tour, and I can still write movies and TV shows, if I can keep doing that, that I think was a big beat for me too.

It's like, I don't need to be this, I'm pretty happy. Well, it's also just silly. It's like, do you want to have money, or do you have to be a billionaire? Oh, I agree. money stuff also is so crazy look, but the comparison thing because of the our jobs you

You know Kevin Hart, you know Jim Carrey, you know I don't remember who you know, but like you know all the the icons are a lot of them Yeah, and like it doesn't it guarantee anything Yeah, I mean Kevin's a fucking sunny of them. Yeah. And like, it doesn't guarantee anything. You know what I mean? Kevin's a fucking sunny, hilarious motherfucker. Yeah. He was, when he didn't have money, he is now.

Jim, I don't think it's solved many problems for Jim. But being the most successful. Yeah. That's interesting. I don't think he would say it's solved any problems. I don't know Jim at all, but from the outside in, it looks like it's not, it's good. I don't know if it's easy for Jim.

There's so many moments in my career where I thought, I guess this happened, oh man, well now, now everything's gonna change. When I first moved to LA, I got so lucky. I got cast in a movie, cast in a TV show, and I wrote for the Oscars. And I won an Emmy for the Oscars. And when I won an Emmy for the Oscars,

I was like, well, now I can write anywhere. Didn't do anything. Didn't do anything. I did a big, I did like a big lead in a movie once. It's just, it's so funny how like in my head I was like, if I do this, then like the gates open and like, then I meet all these great directors and we are collaborative and I don't have to audition as much. But none of that really happens.

I think what I've learned is in this industry, you have to keep hustling for yourself. Yeah. And nobody's gonna care as much as you about your stuff. Nobody, no producer attached, no director attached, no manager or anything like that. The people that care the most are you, and you have to keep pushing.

I feel like my work ethic and me continuing to hustle is the reason why I'm able to have a little bit of longevity, I think. or pushing this to be a comedy tour, keep going or stuff like that. I feel like, uh, but it's kind of all up to you. Yeah. And my point is that there, you could look at it as the negative, but I don't know. It's, it's certainly it's drive is, I think drive is good as long as it's not hurting people.

Yeah. If it's hard on you, you'll figure it out, but like, you can self abuse yourself, you know what I mean? That's legal, that's like a victimless crime, so to speak. Just be mean at yourself, down at yourself? Or not, yes, but like being a hard, driving a hard bargain, having a high standard. Yeah.

Having like wanting to, wanting to extend your tour or expand it or whatever. Yeah. That's a, it's like, it's not, your wife didn't get hurt by it, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I don't think there's a, or even your friends didn't get hurt by it.

Yeah. So I'm not mad at any of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's once it starts hurting other people. I think there's any, or even your friends didn't get hurt by it. Yeah. So I'm not mad at any of that. Yeah. But I think it's once it starts hurting other people. I think that's right. Have you, so you just saw it as a thing you needed to get better at and you slowly have. That was something that I saw that I was like,

if I, the industry is like this so much, that if I allow my emotions, just follow that, I would be miserable. I would be up and down. It would be crazy. Cause like- up and down. It would be crazy. Cause like- You seem generally like a pretty upbeat person. Yeah.

I try my best to be positive. I have this feeling that like- Um, but I feel like you, you, you strike me as you've been like who you are since you were a kid. Yeah, I kind of have been. I've always been very positive. And if I'm in a down moment, I don't bring it to other people. I mean, I'll talk to my family about it, but I won't like, like, I rather show,

I rather when I'm like excited, I rather like, I like the idea of like maybe you or I are here to spread joy to people, make people laugh. Like, they come into one of our shows not feeling great, they leave feeling great, how cool that we can give them experience, but I do, I'm pretty, I'm a very positive person. And then, you know, in my life,

I'll go through moments where I'm like down on myself or I'll beat myself up a lot. But I always try to find myself back up there, how lucky we are and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's. Is that exhausting for you to be near or is it you're finding?

No, I'm not. I'm exhausted. No, I don't, I'm working toward that. Yeah. But you seem, I would say you're lucky in that, that you're, that you're naturally predisposed. Yeah. Where I'm naturally predisposed to something darker.

Whenever I'm- I'm trying to get over, I'm trying to, I'm working, I'm working it out of myself. Really? Out of my body, yeah. So you, when does it mean when you say darker? What is it? Give me an example of how-

Just depression, just depression, negativity, pessimism. And where do you think it breeds from? Just a bad, you've seen some of my shows, just a bad background. Yeah, yeah. Just a relatively rough way to grow up. Even that I've sort of evolved on. But yeah.

So, but it was also kind of cool But yeah, so, but it was also kind of cool to be sort of like dark and comedy in your 20s. Like when I was- So did you lean into it a little bit? Probably. That makes sense. But like- It's also your persona, right?

I dropped out of school, well, it became, but yeah, but like I dropped out of NYU at 19 and then it's like Marin, I start working at the comedy club and it's like Marin and Louis and. Oh, right. Like, you know, sort of very talented, dark. Yeah, picking apart life and really pushing. Yeah, cynical people, like, yeah.

So yeah, so like that was sort of a thing. So, but I've had to, it's not valuable. It's not a good way to be in life. Yeah. And you can still, your brain will probably kick the jokes out anyway. Like meaning your brain, my brain will make the joke. I don't have to be like,

you making jokes. You just kind of like be a, try to be a happier, more joyful person. This show was sponsored by BetterHelp. I'd like to take a moment and thank a buddy of mine who's a longtime friend and an avid listener of the show. His name's Bajan Shams. He edited Chappelle's show and a lot of my specials and he's fantastic and a very great

longtime friend. I already said long time. I mean it, 20 years. It's a long time. Is that not a long time? Should I have not have said long time. I mean it, 20 years. It's a long time. Is that not a long time? Should I not have said long time? This month is all about gratitude and along with the person I just said, shout it out, Bajan, there's another person we don't get to thank enough, ourselves.

It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense of everything and in this crazy world, that's not easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life including yourself. All right, let's talk about better help in therapy. You know I've been to therapy a lot, huge part of my life, transformational, my girlfriend's a therapist. It's just been hugely helpful. We talk about it pretty much every episode.

I'm sure we'll talk about it in this one. And it's great. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a Try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Neil today to get 10% off your first month.

That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash Neil, N-E-A-L. 10% off your first month. It's a good deal. You need help. All right, this is a good one. Understanding I can't make everyone happy being okay that you've let people down. Yeah, I had a thing for me that was very much like,

if I felt like I was disappointing someone, it would really, I would spiral about it. I'd feel terrible about it. if I felt like I was disappointing someone, it would really, I would spiral about it. I'd feel terrible about it. If I felt like I was disappointing someone. I've been getting better with like comments online if someone like doesn't like something, I'm a little bit better to push away whatever, but like in life, if I'm busy

and I feel like I can't be there for someone the way that I used to be there for someone or something like that, or I just, there's a moment where I realized that if you come to my show, there's going to be people that hated something about the show, then I'm like I just, there's a moment where I realized that if you come to my show, there's gonna be people that hated something about the show. Then I'm like, oh, that's a bummer.

Well, is it, does this come to your personal life? Are you like a people pleaser in life? Yes, I want, I don't love confrontation. I would love to make people happy. If I make someone, if I think I said the wrong thing or I made someone unhappy, I will spiral about it a bit at home.

How was that for your relationships? For relationships when I'm in a relationship. Either dating or marriage or friendship. I wanna make sure people are happy. I wanna make sure my partner's happy, my wife is happy, or ex-girlfriends or anything like that. I really wanna do that. And if I feel like I have to disappoint that,

by the way, that's why like when I'm in other relationships and back in the day and I would have to, if there's like a breakup, there's nothing, I'm sure this is for everybody, but like the anxiety that I would have to break up with someone that I know I'd make somebody unhappy would make me feel so much that physically I could feel it. I'd almost get like, I'd get like pains kind of, because I know I'm about to do something so you would, would you wait a longer time? I would wait to see if we could work, like to see if in my head, but also the, my therapist has said

oftentimes the speed in which I work on stage, he's never seen me perform, but he knows what I do. But it's like the speed, the improv in that I can just make stuff up quickly on stage. He goes, think about that in a negative way against yourself, the quickness in your brain on stage can, the quickness in your brain can also be used to like, make you feel fucking terrible about something yeah and keep going at it and stuff like that

and i was like oh man he's right um but like it's a negative yes and yeah it's like oh my god you're doing this wrong or like you shouldn't have done that um but yeah so for a relationship if i was thinking we're near the end and i had this feeling about it i'm'm sure this is everybody, but maybe I'm learning it's not. It wouldn't, I can't do, it takes days of me preparing to say something. Is that kind of what it is for everybody? I've never really talked about anything like that. That are wiping our asses.

I've never really talked to, I just realized this the other day. How many times have you talked to your friends or anybody about how do you- I don't like talking about that. I won't talk about that. But you have no idea how anybody else does it. Adam Sandler had a joke that my buddy Joe Vessi wrote for him.

And it's, I don't like shit jokes. I think they're like low grit. Sandler had my, the only great one I've ever heard, which was, he's talking about when you're wiping and you go, all right, this is my last wipe no matter what's on it. Meaning where you're still like, I'm not gonna keep doing this. I can't, some have, some don't, whether, this is the last one. There was a great improv line by Chris Pratt

in Parks and Rec which was, you know, wipe 100 times, still poop, still poop. Let me check that. It's like I'm wiping a marker or something. I thought that was so funny. Just improvise that. But that's another thing where it's like, I haven't talked about that, but I was like, oh, nobody ever talks about,

because nobody's in the room with you when you're learning how to do it as a kid. And you don't even get to see your parents do this thing. Me and my friends were just talking about this the other day. It's like, how do you do it? And people are so different in how they do it. And we have no idea. In terms of? Just wiping. Oh no, okay. Well, do it? And people are so different in how they do it and we have no idea.

In terms of- Just wiping. Oh no, okay. Well, what about the relationship? You've never talked to guys about- Oh, I never asked that question if it's like- How long from the moment where you're like, oh my God, I don't know if this is right,

till you actually are able to do it. Is it days or is it like a month? Is it- I'm, well, I'm not good at once I'm unhappy. I'm it's hard to mask. Alley Wong has a great joke about, uh, women are very good at making things very uncomfortable if they're not, they don't like what's happening. And I'm not dissing.

I'm similar in that. So you're giving out signals. Yeah. Almost without even trying to. Yeah. I'm sulking or I'm my dissimilar, I'm similar in that. So you're giving out signals. Yeah. Almost without even trying to give out signals. Yeah, I'm sulking or my energy shifted or. And you're waiting for her to be like, hey, what's up?

Yeah. So you don't wanna initiate it, but you're giving the signals through it. I might initiate it sometimes. I'm sure I have. I've certainly been like. And the first time we'd be like, nothing, nothing. Or the first time you're just waiting for it to.

I think I've done every version of it. Yeah, of course. There's also the old move of like, I'm gonna be an asshole until you say something. Like I'm gonna be more hostile than normal. Right. But I don't think anyone, I think you don't wanna break up.

I think like generally speaking, it's not. Easier to say together. It's like firing somebody. You don't wanna fire anyone. It's like, it stinks. No one wants to create any boundaries. I think that's what I mean. There's a thing that I have a lot of friends that like are not friends with their exes at all.

And I was like, there's so few people in our lives that we get like close, truly close with and spend the most time compared to anybody else. And whether it's three months or a year and a half. So I'm like, there's very few people that I don't really talk to that I dated for like a substantial amount of time. I was like, this is someone that like,

I cared enough about that I spent all my life with for this, a year or six months or whatever. I was like, why wouldn't I want them somewhere in my life? Just because we were connected. We had like, we lived a piece of our lives together, but I have friends that once you break up with someone, they're like, that's, now that's over there, I don't talk to this person anymore and stuff like that.

I can go both ways. I think the thing that I'm where, I think if you're in a relationship, a committed relationship with somebody, I think there's a bit of like, well, why are you talking to your ex? Like what's the vow, why? Which I think is true.

And my thought is like, cause I like them as people. Yeah, or else we would never have been with them. You have to like them as person. If you're really dating someone. But it's also like, what's the, what are you getting from it? And it's like, I don't know if I'm getting anything.

I guess it feels rude to be like goodbye forever. I got this. I it's not even jealousy on my girlfriend's part or your mate's part. Like, right. It's just what's what's the purpose? But it's just a friendship, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yes. But I guess it's like. I mean, we're not talking to them every day. It's not like, yeah, it's just not pushing someone out of your life. Yes. And I guess it's like I mean we're not talking to them every day. It's not like yeah It's just not pushing someone out of your life

Yes, and I guess it's like once a year. I guess you just go like are you okay? It's sort of like are you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. You good. Has it made you the the Not wanted to hurt people's feelings says it doesn't get to the point where it's hurt you It takes extra effort. It definitely takes extra effort to be kind to everybody. I remember one time I was directing something and acting in something. And so I was being kind to, I was putting so much energy into being kind

to every single person on set, every boom operator, which I think is great. But I was so tired at the end of the day. I was like so tired because the energy of directing and acting and we were improvising and then making sure that everybody except like I was because I was directing I feel you feel like you have the captain of the ship you want to make everybody feel good. You get so tired from just trying to keep everybody excited and happy that I find myself doing that like being exhausted sometimes.

And do you then go I need to pair one of them back? The shoot was short enough where I didn't have to deal with it. But yeah, I think the thing you pair back is just like people know that you're, you're there for them, you got their back, they need something, you're there. It's almost like establishing that at the

beginning. Yeah. So maybe you don't have to put as much effort in the next day. Did you, and what about with, with girlfriends and friendships or was it ever like I'm. Friendships I find, I find interesting now because as we get older, I feel like we don't

have as much free time. Yeah. This is a real thing where I'm like, um, my life is so busy now with my family and then my work that you really don't have much time to be, to, to like. Do connect. Yeah.

To connect the same way that we connected before, do you know what I mean? Yes, you don't really, there's no, there's no what Jerry Seinfeld calls with his kids garbage time, where there's no- Define garbage time, just like mess around, do whatever. It's not structured play, you're just eating near each other and you start like going, eh, what are you?

And then I feel like, am I letting people down by not being, like, by not showing them, to not testing as much or calling as much? Like now that I have a family, I'm really feeling like, you know, I was always the person that kept the relationship alive. You know, people would just be like, they wouldn't talk for a while.

Yeah. I'd be the one that'd be like, hey man, what's going on? Just to check in. And we feel like old friends or whatever. But because I'm usually the instigator of that in some of my friendships, now there's just not talking much anymore. No negativity. Just like. No, they have, they don't, they have their hands full. We're both adults now. We're both busy and it's, and yeah. So I think, so what is,

you being cognizant of your time being at limited more now. Um, how do you use your free time or do you feel guilty sometimes if you're not with your reddit? I'm kidding. Uh, big in a reddit. I don't, I have the least. I mean, I feel like I have many friends that are busier than me. So I'm, I'm the, I'm of my friend group, or the people I'm friends with,

they're busier than me. So I feel like I have more free time than most people. But I just accept, I don't take it as hostile or hurtful on their, or intentional on their part to not talk to me. They're just like, I did Seth Meyers show five years ago after I had a kid, and I did an RIP in memoriam for our friendship.

That's amazing. On the show? Yeah. That's great. Because I just knew once he had the kid, I'm like, now it's basically over. Yeah. And I was right.

But it's not, I'm not mad, we're still incredibly close, but like not technically. Written out by ours. Yeah. Like, yeah, like he's got three kids. I'm, I don't expect him to be, he would be, I would think less of him if he was diligent about our friendship. Yeah.

Um, did you always have pretty traditional thoughts on what you wanted to do? And I remember there's a moment in my career, maybe this is a moment that will connect, but I remember I was doing everything that felt like I wanted to be doing. I went from this show called After Party, which I loved. I loved being in, and Chris Miller and Phil Lord,

Lord of Miller, like icons to me, what they've done. I love them. So I was like, I always wanna do something with them. And I had a really nice role in that. And I got to sing and I got to do all these cool things. And I went right from that to the next day. And this is all during COVID times when it was like hard to get jobs. I did Space Force,

which is Malkovich and Steve Carell. And I'm doing that. And I'm from LA now. I mean, I was in LA and then I'm going to Vancouver and I'm working nonstop and I'm like thinking this is exactly what I want to bestop. And I'm like thinking this is exactly what I wanna be doing. And I would get home and it just felt like

I couldn't just keep doing this. That wouldn't make me feel fulfilled. I need a partner, I need something. I need a life or I need, you know, I was like, oh, there was a big moment there when I was like, I feel like I'm doing all the things that I thought that would make me happy and feel fulfilled. But even when I'm doing all these things at the level that I'm doing that, which felt great. And I was touring, I feel like I'm doing all the things that I thought that would make me happy and feel fulfilled. But even when I'm doing all these things

at the level that I'm doing that, which felt great, and I was touring at the same time, and I was doing Sonic, it didn't matter. I always thought that that would fill me up. But that work stuff isn't like, it's a part of it. It really helps make you feel good. You feel when you're not doing it, but then when you're doing it, you're like,

oh, this isn't total. That's right. It just felt like satisfaction. I thought it was going to be total. It's not total. Is it just going to be my whole life jumping from gig to gig, just like this from city to city? I think I need something to ground me more. I think I need, uh, I need more. I'm very close to my, uh, you know, my, my parents and my sister, my, my family family, but I was like, I, uh, that there was a moment when I was like, Oh, this will be big. I need something else. Yeah a moment when I was like, oh, this will be big. I need something else. Yeah.

And I need something bigger, something that makes this shit not matter. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so that, by the way, talking about like linking your self worth to your job, being able to link your self worth to family or relationship or something like that. Did you have to change your approach with, in terms of, if you were more career oriented and like, relationships were like on the side. There was a moment of, I, this is great.

There was a moment, like I was in like a nice relationship and it ended. And there was a moment when I started dating, uh, women there where I was like, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I want a relationship. I will not go. I will not like, um, I will not even kiss a woman unless I know there's a possibility of another date. I don't want to fuck with anybody.

I don't want to mess. And there was a shift in, I mean, I wasn't going, I'm not like, I was never like a big bachelor going crazy, but like there was a moment in my life when I was like, I'm this age, I want a relationship right now. I don't want to mess with anybody. I just want to let's, I'm going to try to date

some people, see where we go. There was a big click in me there. And then I found my dating thing to be, I would date people to mess with anybody. I just want to let's, I'm going to try to date some people, see where we go. There was a big click in me there. And then I found my dating thing to be, I would date people for way less time or just try one or two times and then politely whatever. There was a definite shift in that where it's like, not just like flying. That's how, how was that with disappointed people?

Cause people you think of your, that's why I didn't want, and I wouldn't, if you do it early, it's better, but it's still not good. People don't like it. It is easier though. I think, don't you think if you're- That's why I didn't want, and I wouldn't- If you do it early, it's better, but it's still not good. People don't like it. It is easier though. I think, don't you think? Definitely, yeah. Especially for me.

Yes, it's easier, but it's not easy. Yes, it's never easy. It's never easy telling someone you're not romantic, you don't see a romantic future. Yeah, you're making them feel bad, you're right. Totally. I remember my therapist once said, when I was going through like,

figuring out dating this thing, I was like, I think I was like, man, I feel bad if I heard something like anybody who goes on a date knows that, I mean, outside of the 1% where the person actually gets married knows it's going to end. Yeah, it's going to end. So it's like, you guys are going into this date with a contract knowing that this will end at some time probably. So he like relaxes me. But nobody really, no, we all know that consciously, but no one thinks it's going to be them. And it's also like, if I feel that maybe it's not right, I'm assuming the other person's like, yeah, this is probably not whatever. And I think sometimes it wouldn't be totally mutual, but oftentimes it'll be like. It'll be mutual in a week. They'll realize. But also if I'm not like, if I'm just not even kissing or doing it, they'll kind of understand like, oh, like this will be fun,

we'll be friends or something like that. But there was a moment in my life where I was like, I really want to find some, I have a TV show that I'm writing about for this, but it's like, I really want to find someone. In the show, the whole idea is that I spent so much time on work that I didn't spend any time on relationships.

And now I'm in the show, I think I'm 35 or 33. And I'm like, I have to, everybody's married. Everybody's married. I don't know what the fuck to do. And I'm so behind that I have to catch up and be a fucking adult and date people for the purpose of really connecting and finding love. There was a big year.

It's so funny you bring that up because I wouldn't have thought about it. Did there was a big moment where I was like, come on, we're really going to figure this out because I was so terrified of not finding somebody. I was like, okay'm really going to figure this out because I was so terrified of not finding somebody. I was like- So it was, okay, that's interesting. And did you have to, not change your, but change your mentality about it

where it's like, this will be, the same drive you had for work, did you have to make it, have there been moments where you're like, you want to be worky, but you're like, this, I have to be. I almost had to think about dating as work. I had to make time for dating because I just was so, I'm so happy. I love what I do.

So I just like spent all my time in there and any free time I would have, I'd be writing a script for some place or I'd be performing or I'd be acting. And then I had to literally think about it like, this is a job now too. You have to find somebody, you have to date people, you have to connect, you have to make time for this.

You can't work all night. You have to, so like I had to, okay, I haven't thought about this part of my life and so on, but I really had to do it. And I did do that. And I'm like- Do you feel like a sacrifice? Sometimes it felt like work.

Sometimes it never felt like a, it never felt like a sacrifice because if I had some like really big deadline, I would do the deadline. But if I was like, I could do either one, I would do it. Or if my friends were going out to a bar, I would go out to a bar. Although I, you know, it was the last time anybody went out to a bar. But it's like, I would put myself out there more and stuff like that and try to see what would happen and things like that. Yeah. Okay. And then once you-

Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Do you think, so me talking about switching that mentality, did you have a version of that? And if you think about that version, are there people that you met earlier in your life that after you felt that switch, you think the relationship would have been deeper and better

if you would like, after you're like, oh, okay, I'm gonna be more serious about this or no? I don't know if I, if I, if my any romantic relationships failed because I was too work oriented. I think they just either you either wanna spend all your time with somebody or you don't. Yeah. I think it's just, I think it's binary.

And I've, I believe I now I'm not believe I found it's just, I think it's binary. And I believe I now, I'm not believe, I found somebody that I wanna spend all my time with. So like- It's amazing. Yeah, it's fucking awesome. And it does coincide with a shift in work satisfaction. Yes, you have to sacrifice your time for the relationship. But I don't, it doesn't feel like a sacrifice

because I'm not as monomaniacal about success. So it's one of those things of like, I don't know if it would have been possible without it, et cetera, et cetera. Although I was more ambitious when I met her than I am now. So I don't think it- Maybe put some of that ambition into the relationship.

Yes, but I also don't think my relationship was spoiled by, any other relationship was spoiled by ambition. I think actually weirdly more friendships were spoiled by my ambition. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Meaning. In a competitive nature like this person would be. No, actually just in a careless, I didn't care enough.

I cared so much about work that if the person kinda cared about work, I thought less of them. If they didn't think a ton about work. No, it's like I would think, I explained it to a friend of mine who I've been working with for 20 years where I was like, the way my life was, was I was like 11, 12, 13, 14. I didn't like my home life

and I just started working all the time. That was your escapism. Yes, so I'm still doing that. And I would make most of my connections through work. So I was looking to get super connected to people I was working with and they were just seen as like, oh, no, I'm just worried.

It's just a thing I do. It's not my identity. I'm like, well, it's my whole identity. What are you doing? That's so interesting. It actually fucking was, and then I told a friend of mine, he's like, if I'd known that about you,

it clarifies so much in terms of why this all is so meaningful to you. Yeah. But so I think I was thoughtless toward people because I was like, nah, I gotta work. You know, so I, but I think less so with women, which is surprising to hear myself say that, but it doesn't seem to make sense, but I don't think the work stuff got in the way of most relationships. Yeah. Because I was always pretty committed to the relationships. Whenever I was in a relationship,

I always went for it and gave it my all. But if it wasn't like a girlfriend, like the idea of dating to me was second place to, I gotta get this done, this stuff. It didn't feel as important to me. But like all my friends from college got married and had kids in their 20s. And then like, but out here, people,

it's so different out here. Because we put so much of ourselves into our work and stuff like that. I think with women, there was a sexual component that I wanted to like satisfy. I felt physically I needed to satisfy that with myself. So therefore I was more committed. Wait, physical intent just.

In that like, where as a friend, there's no like sexual component, like a buddy. Right, right, right. There's no, I know I'm really contradicting myself here. But. It's gonna have a lot of eureka moments. No, no, there's like. Your Reddit thread is gonna be blowing up right now.

Crazy. I can't wait to get, I almost wanna pause the podcast just to look. The, no, but there was an ego to, sex ego in relationships of like, I wanna, do you know what I mean? Like, so I would dedicate more time to it. Okay.

Like there was ego in work and there was ego in female relationships because there was sexual component. And then with friendships, it was just kind of like, I don't even know where that goes. Yeah. Okay, staying connected to all the family and friends I care about.

Yeah, that's a thing now that I'm a little bit busier, the idea of, but that probably ties in. Do you go out of your way to do it? Yeah. Concerned effort. I'm very close to my family. I'm very close to my mom and dad, my sister as well, but like I'll call my dad every day.

I'll talk to my dad every day. And probably my mom, you know. I think it saves that you're a nice Jewish boy, right? I'm a nice Jewish boy. Yeah, my parents are from the South Bronx, and I grew up at like the top of the Bronx, the North Bronx, where sometimes, if people are from the real Bronx,

they'll be like, that's not the Bronx. I'm from Riverdale, where it's like, I'm on the edge of Westchester. And then we moved to Westchester, but my like very grounded in family stuff, and we were always there for each other, and all that stuff, yeah. Like a movie?

Like a, like a... Yeah, my dad like loved doing things for everybody, like his friends and stuff like that. My dad's more of the witty character. My mom's more of the like, more like the outrageous-y type thing. So when I think about my comedy or me as a person, it's both of those things where my brain working is my dad and my goofiness is my mom kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And.

Can you connect positive aspects of your life to your parents, even though. Yeah, yeah. I had, yeah, my thing, my hardware is my dad and my software is my mom. Oh, that's a cool way of saying it. Yeah, like my dad was a tax lawyer. Like my dad had a good CPU or whatever,

whatever you want to, like a good hard drive. Yes. And my mom's a human. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Part robot, part human? Yeah, yeah, yeah, my mom. So anything that's warmer, engaging is my mom.

Yeah, I think also for me, the ability to stay in relationships is big for me. It helps, it makes me feel good too. Like I get something out of it as well, being close to someone. There's this app that I use in the morning. One of the ways that I try to get off of social media a little bit more is when I would wake up, I'd be on it.

And instead of doing that, what I do now is I grab, we have a dog, I grab our dog and I go, I take the dog for a walk. And on that walk, there's this app, like it's a video app type thing where you leave each other little videos. And I have probably like 10 friends there. And on the walk, I'll watch what they left me the night

before talking about their lives and I'll respond. That way we don't have to be on the phone, like, cause I'm, we're just never available at the same time. But like six in the morning, seven in the morning when I'm walking this dog, I'll read, I'll watch all theirs and then I'll respond to them on the walk and that to me is so nice because I feel like I'm connecting in some way.

Yeah, and I think I need that. Like I need, I would hate that we spent all this time and like love into relationships and friendships and then they just kind of go away because you just don't have time. So like me trying to find a way. It's also like important for your health. I think so.

I mean, like every study says friendships make you live longer, make you live healthier, make you staying connected to people. Torture isn't one of the big torture things, just leaving someone in isolation. So I can't talk or see anybody or, yeah. Yeah. And do you, it seems like you have good instincts, good human instincts naturally. I hope so. My parents did.

My dad definitely does. Yeah. And you don't have to work, I mean, so you don't really have to like work, like make a concert or whatever. Like now you have to be, I mean, so you don't really have to like work, like make a concert or whatever, like now you have to be, be a good person. I think that's my, my MO is to try to do that. Do you feel like you have to do that?

If someone says hello to you, you're not gonna be like, shut up. Oh no, no, yeah, I'm not, yeah, like I'm trying, I have a gruff exterior, but like I'm not. A lot of people talk about how fucking gruff you are. I bet. No, I mean like rough, like die hard movie gruff exterior, but like I'm not. A lot of people talk about how fucking gruff you are. I bet. No, I mean like rough, like die hard movie gruff. You know, I'm a cop.

Yeah, you're like a hard nosed cop. I'm an old grizzled detective. It's almost your fucking last day of work too. You just want to get through this shit. I have a bar that I'm opening. If I just have to finish this podcast. There's a thing also though with you, I've had limited interactions with you,

but anytime I do, you're so open. I don't remember where we were. I feel like my memory's gotten worse, but. We're in Montreal, because I remember it also. We were at a big outdoor thing. I think we've said hello to each other in passing, but mostly bits, like not real.

And we had a moment where we were in a big crowd and I was next to you and I was like, oh, this is exciting. I respect you as a person and a comedian. I was like, oh, this would be nice. And we got into moment where we were in a big crowd. And I was next to you and I was like, oh, this is exciting. Like, I respect you as a person and a comedian. I was like, oh, this would be nice. And we got into real shit immediately. You... That's, I don't do well.

That's the thing is I just don't do that well with small... I love, but that's, I love learning about people. I never have to talk. Let's have a real conversation instead of what... I don't need the trivia. I don't remember what we talked about. It's not because I don't care. I actually do care and I don't think that that's a representation of what's happening with your life. I think. Like what you ate. I mean I'd love to talk

about food. I follow your food blog. I love it. It's great. And I support your Patreon. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. You're going to be getting the new video of me eating grilled cheese. I can't wait. It's going to be amazing. The... But I love that I'm drawn to people like that. I'm drawn to listen. I love listening to people's stories.

I'll share about myself also and I'm like, you know, in my real life, of course everything, but it's like, I love learning about people. I love talking about real stuff, feeling like I'm like, we're getting something out of it. I love that. So you were immediately like that. And I think I was drawn to that immediately. And you probably even said, like, this is great. Cause I loved that.

And for someone who has this gruff exterior, you were none of that when we were talking about it. No, yeah, I'm not like, but it seems like it will be. I think your persona on stage would make it through. All right, well, it was great talking to you, man. I'm glad that you were. That's it. Yeah, that's it. The conceptions of Lickety Split. Alright, well it was great talking to man. I'm glad that that's it. Yeah, that's it. It's a lickety split

But yeah, you you're you are who what I exactly what I thought you were you're a nice fucking funny, dude Thanks, buddy. Yeah My man All you have to do is open, open up your hand My man