Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Jake Johnson

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Jake Johnson ('Self Reliance' on Hulu, 'New Girl,' 'We're Here to Help' podcast), about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 3:49 Upbringing 5:24 Improv, Sketch & Commercials 10:19 Dyslexia 13:01 Dropping out of high school 18:32 Sponsor: BetterHelp 19:57 Sponsor: Mando 22:38 How he got his life back on track 36:54 Parenting 42:09 Relationship w/ Father 50:32 How 'New Girl' changed his idea of Hollywood 59:00 Sponsor: Washington Post 1:05:37 What he thinks of his life & life purpose ---------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe to We're Here to Help podcast:  @HeretoHelpPod   Watch Self Reliance on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/self-reliance-b530df17-e123-4174-8d4d-75e6f422468f Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/... ---------------------------------------------------------- Sponsors: https://www.betterhelp.com/NEAL for 10% off your first month https://www.shopmando.com promo code: NEAL for $5 off your Mando starter pack https://www.washingtonpost.com/NEAL for 80% off / 50 cents per week Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

hi everybody it's neil brennan and um this is the box podcast uh we talk about problems we heal the earth we unite we join forces and it's great my guest today is a a fucking dynamite energy an actor uh most notably from a new girl i've never been an inspiration before i don't like it it's too much responsibility and uh minx. Look, what you made, it means something to people. And you were in a sci-fi movie. Probably. Were you in a Jurassic Park? Yes.

Yes. I knew I knew. Go in Jurassic Park, but sci-fi is interesting. No, it wasn't sci-fi. There was a low budget sci-fi. I did Safety Not Guaranteed years ago. Safety Not Guaranteed. That's what I thought.

I didn't want to say it because I thought it's batteries not included. Okay, gotcha. He was in Safety Not guaranteed and uh he has his own movie on hulu and i fucking am blanking self-reliance he's got a movie on hulu called self-reliance uh it's very well reviewed and he's a good dude and i did his podcast called we're here to help which is also great and it's jake johnson ladies and gentlemen my man jake johnson you we don't know each other well but we know each other yeah i think i get it i guess same i know what's going on over there i know i felt that way when you direct the new girl are you literally comparing a zombie novel to my ability to create life? I'm a writer, Jess.

We create life. I directed New Girl. I didn't know you, but I felt like, oh, you're one of my guys. And that's why when we were talking, I kept saying things to you. Yeah. When you would say like, you would say these things to me. And thinking about it after, I was like, well, I was talking to Neil like he was my friend. Right.

But we didn't know each other from his point of view but i was thinking like but i knew you man i knew i you're from chicago i could picture it i i made your i made i like did your backstory even when i watched the pilot for new girl i was like oh he's good yeah like just automatically like oh i get why he's in this like the rest of them i'm kidding um even that whole thing man even being part of that that era was so insane sneaking into a network show as an actor i'd never been close oh you never never you know there's a bunch of people they test their clothes george clooney was all better looking all better looking literally every. All better looking.

Literally every single one of them is better looking than me. And by the way, and you're good looking. Do you know what I mean? Like you look like something. I am a good looking post TV. Pre TV. I wasn't good looking for the ladies in bars when I met. It didn't work.

No, it only worked when I was on television. And, you know, you go to a party and you notice. It's a shame because by that point you were married i was over but i never then went through the spin which i've seen a lot of actors do when they get a little famous or they have something it's ugly guys all of a sudden being like that shirt's too tight for you oh that bracelet's not your style you are not hot yes i know you're fucking a lot of fans but i promise you you're the same person you were when you were 16 make no mistake yes you are not hot you're just that like you're successful so you didn't fall for it no because i was also i didn't hit young

you were 30 i was 28 28 28 29 so it had i'd already been out here had already missed had already missed in New York for every day, every day job you could think of. Yeah. Already started thinking in my head, when this doesn't work, I don't have a plan B. So I'm just going to keep doing weird schemes and doing the thing. But there is, you know, some people say like, I never saw an option that wasn't success. That wasn't my reality reality i saw the other option yeah where i was like yeah kind of gigging doing day jobs popping up doing stuff did you believe there you must have something made you move yeah from chicago something made you pursue all this so in my house growing up

comedy was the great equalizer and it made my mom happy so if you could make my mom happy our house was good if you could make my mom laugh all stress house was good. If you could make my mom laugh, all stress was over. Mom had a little prone to darkness or just regular mom stuff? Yeah, mom could get hot. Mom could get hot. Anger. Just like manic changes. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

And so my brother, who's four years older, is still the funniest person I've ever met. And he was very smart, funny, and he could set it up. And I was the fatter, younger brother who could get the physical laugh. So we just always were doing bits and always making people laugh, always trying to get my mom to laugh. All my uncles on my mom's side didn't think we were funny. They were tough Chicago.

We were suburban Chicago. So we could do something. Could not win. At the front of the table, if I'm talking, my brother and I had a game growing up that we could walk up and slap each other in the face, and you weren't allowed to react. So I could be telling a story to my uncles and my family and being like, I think I'm winning. And my brother could just go and they would look at me like, you're being punked. You're a bitch. And rather than respond, I'd have to be like,

so she said to me, you know, she said, you're wearing, yeah, you're wearing a red shirt and that bit for my brother and i when he would go in the kitchen and only i could see him those tear laughs that is a great bit if you're you or your brother that's right and we loved it and we had a lot of stuff like that where we would kiss each other on the lips in front of other people uh and to us it was the funniest so he had always said you you could do this, man. You could be on TV. And so, you know, when I started getting on stage and started getting some laughs doing improv and sketch, I was like, well, there is a path. Yeah.

You can do improv like Bill Murray did in Chicago. Where were you? Well, the first time I started doing it, I was in New York. But I'd come from Chicago and always seen Second City. Yeah. Did you go to Second City shows or you just were aware of it? I went to the free midnight shows where they would improvise at night. Got it.

And who was in it? Do you remember? Craig Kikowski was huge. I saw Tina Fey back in the day. It was like that kind of class. I'm not remembering all the names, but like killer improvisers. Scott Adsit. Yep.

Just really hard, funny people. Yeah, yeah. But that's what I always wanted. I always wanted to be in an ensemble. I wanted to be one of the members of the ensemble. I'd always hear stories about John Belushi, and then we would go to the bar that Belushi went to, that Farley went to, the Old Town Ale House,

and it was like right there. And then did New York, did a two-man sketch show. We traveled the country with it. Went to NYU for writing, was dramatic writing, wanted to get into all that. And then moved to LA and booked a commercial because I had a big mustache. What year? 2004. Great.

And I was working on two boats doing weddings. You're working on- I was catering weddings at the time when I moved out here and working at the hollywood park casino like you dream of it driving a 2002 honda accent lime green stick shift what were you doing at the casino uh third party player so i was playing with a company's money but i was essentially just the bank it's not sexy it's more just you're playing county cards no it's nothing cool uh hourly wage then i a photo of me that my agent when i was non-union sent to some casting thing and i booked off that and i got in the union and i made like twenty thousand dollars and as somebody who has been a gambler i went like this is fucking this

is about to be 40 first of all i'm about to double this because i'm so lucky and now i'm in yeah and right after that i was like so i've had a bad attitude about headshots i understand that what do you need two weeks later there's a headshot with me in a beanie me in like a black ox jersey being like me with a tie doing the office thing i used to go i used to have uh costumes in my car and per audition i would change the look i was talking to my uh casting the my agent at the time i was like can i get five different names so if i'm going for like a mechanic give me like a different name if i'm going after like i was like headshots i was in commercial i'm like i'll do any character you want this what's great about this is it's so unexpected but it's also so show business so

stupid yes it can be anything yes it makes everyone insane and i was like but also especially back then you could book a spot and make 80 000 on a commercial and i'm like that's not only my year that's three years yeah had roommates so whatever you guys need me to be name me as that i'm that yeah loved it and then Did you book a bunch of commercials? Yeah, I booked 10 commercials in a year. I think we're both- Neil, it's always manic. We're both like fucking laughing. Yeah, it's always manic. Evil, evil.

But it happened fast. Yeah. And then you would work with the same director. And then all of a sudden I'd go to a call back and I'd be like, oh, hey, man. Hey, man. And he'd be like, hey, in this, remember that moment? Yeah. Meaning like you need to get a laugh now. Yes, yes. And you'd be like, great. Yeah. moment yeah meaning like you need to get a laugh now

yes and you'd be like great yeah and then all of a sudden yeah it's a big year and that's what kind of started oh five i think might have been oh six actually a few years of missing out here right around that time that era and then money started coming in and i thought uh-oh now i like this but i've always had that outsider approach of this is a weird game and i don't know how long I'm going to be on the boat, but while I'm in the boat, let's have a little bit of fun. And okay. So you start having money. Yes.

And do you, what changes? Nothing? Nothing. I mean, I had, no, I had like, you know, family obligations with some of the money that I wanted to do. So nothing, it was just all of a sudden I felt like I'm not drowning. There's money. And now if there's money like poker, cause I'm a card player. Well, now I have chips. So if I have chips, I can keep playing and now what else can I do? And so it entered this idea for me of,

oh, now things could get exciting. So then the same kind of two person show I'd had since I was 20, I did with a guy out here named Eric Edelstein. We lived in the same building. Who is that? A really great actor, like dramatic actor, plays bad guys, but hard funny. Yeah. We did a two-person show that Jeremy Conner saw and directed. Jeremy Conner did Drunk History with Derek Waters.

Yeah. We made a pilot presentation. You wrote the show. Wrote the show, acted in it, all of it. Great. And then NBC bought that. Great. pilot presentation you wrote the show wrote the show acted in it all of it great and then nbc bought that great and from there got agents managers and then felt like all right now they let me in the castle right so now i gotta go as crazy as i can until i get thrown you got a new girl and new girl was like four probably four years after three years after that i don't know

my math isn't great all right the thing i said before we started was it doesn't look like it's easy to be you. I said why, and you went like this. And I went why. I gave the, because the fucking gerbil's upstairs. I know gerbil head when I see it. Yeah, gerbil head when I see it. What? Well, all right, dyslexia.

That's one. So you were not an easily educated young man. No. So, well, it was a different era. So both my kids have dyslexia and watching them go through it i realized like how great it is when people have an issue and they get help with it right when people say like kids are very healing and i go like as an idea i don't know what that means it's like it's a cool concept but you're like oh you have what i have and these are the natural steps. Yeah. When I got diagnosed, I think I was in fourth grade,

and they put me in a class with like, you know, somebody who had, you know, you know. A few different problems. Special ed was a big umbrella. Also, there was like a 35-year-old guy in overalls in there. And I was like, this is a wild ass room to put me in with one teacher who was 70 where i'm like oh i'm in like a shed yeah all my friends are there no i'm not learning anything now i'm in a shed that that's a man that's a man with man muscles

do you still know what he was doing there one of the students i bet don't know but so anyhow i told my mom my mom freaked out and said you're not going there you're back in the regular class whenever they try to tell you you got something tell them to fuck off it's laziness fight through it and you believe so then you go oh so it wasn't necessarily encouragement it was that room is over I'm back so that room's bad so you're lazy it was sort of like a weirdly double negative and then or or just like work harder okay like yeah if you can't figure it out let's grind i'll help you my mom like i love my mom let's go but that led to when i was 15 i dropped out of school because that led to years of being like if you're behind a little and you don't catch

up it's not gonna change yeah it's not like you're gonna there's no yeah there's no get rich quick there's no magic gusher there's no hollywood uh-huh there's no like hey you know what there's a startup yeah you're making some weird decisions here's 10 commercials yeah we're now in the world of internet or what we were talking before of um you know where the golden ring has changed i go what are you guys doing yeah and there's everyone's smoking weed and there's like nine 20 year old guys and i go what is this and they go like yeah man we're crushing on youtube and i go get to that i go what are your numbers and they go they tell me and i go you guys are making that and they go and we

sell socks yeah and i go like i don't know where we're going anymore explain the all right so you drop out? So I dropped out of high school in my sophomore year. At 15? Yeah. What town are you in? Suburban Chicago, north side. We were in Winnetka, and then we moved to Evanston.

So you dropped out. You were going to Nutria? Yeah, I'm going to Nutria. And you drop out. Drop out October of my sophomore year. Not a lot of dropouts from Nutria. No, it's a great public school. And then you

so october basically what happens is i was early in october so here i mean i tried i did you did give it a month yeah you gave it a month and a half well what really happened on that story is their sophomore year sophomore year okay uh everything was catching up in terms of grades uh other kids who- Your past? No, just getting bad grades. Everything that I had done, it was the rubber was meeting the road. And I'm a big believer on that.

If you're doing something that's bad, it's going to catch you. Yeah. You don't know when. And that was the year it caught me. I was getting really bad grades. There was a book I had to read. And there was an in-class essay. And I said to my mom, I can't go to school tomorrow because I haven't read the book.

I am getting a D. This will give me an F. It's bad. And she goes, so you're going to read the whole book tonight. And I said, no. And the reason I couldn't, I tried to read it. I couldn't get it. And she goes, you're going to read the book tomorrow. And I go, I don't think so. And she goes, how about the next day?

And then I said, mom, I'm never going to read the goes how about the next day and then I said mom I'm never gonna read the fucking book you gotta open your eyes mom she said so then why would you go back to school and I go I guess I'm not and we looked at each other and she was looking for me to find whatever my bottom was and she goes then I'm gonna hold you to it. And I go, great. And then I walked into my room and I was like, cool. And I sat there. And then that moment where I had like a cool standoff with my mom became real. And I was like, well, that's where all my friends are. What the fuck am I going to do?

So then I came out and I said, no, actually, I'm going to go to school. And she said, no, you're not. And I said, okay. And then we didn't call the school. We didn't tell anyone. I just didn to go to school. And she said, no, you're not. And I said, okay. And then we didn't call the school. We didn't tell anyone. I just didn't go back. Then a couple of days later, a couple of friends started calling. They're like, you sick?

And I was like, no, very different. I'm sick. Like fucking sick. Not in a cool way. You're like sick. But the first few days of it were interesting. And then the dust started settling and I started missing everybody. And I would like my buddy, Charlie McElway, and I would go to the McDonald's across from

my house after school. And I would be like, what was everybody wearing? And he's like, huh? And I'm like, I know it's a weird question, but like, tell me everything. And then there was like a boys club called the Weneke Youth Organization. And all the kids would get there at 3.30 when school ended. But they opened technically at noon. So I would get there at noon and like hang with the counselors and then leave at 3.30

because I didn't want to be that kid who was like hanging out at a youth center. The old man who hangs out at high school. I'm like, I'm only 15, but now I'm the weird guy. I don't go to school. And then my uncle who had had legal trouble was living with us. And he used to hang me neon signs and hustle gigs. And he saw me as you're one of me. So you need to figure out how to work and hustle and create a grind

because you're not going back to school. So then I started working with him and that was that year. For how, like go in the wake up at 8 a.m.? No, like nothing strict because he wake up at 8 a.m.? No, like, nothing strict. Because he was, you know, self-employed. He smoked weed and made neon signs and would go around Chicago on Clark Street and try to get guys to buy his shitty neon signs.

And then we would hang them and they would be unhappy and we would run to his truck and get out of there. It's a great business. It's funny looking back. It's not stuff I ever think about anymore the funny thing about podcasts is like you like tell your stories and i'm like wait a minute these stories have nothing to do with my life now i know well that's what's funny it's like i'm scared for you i know it turned out great and i'm like what's gonna happen to this kid yeah well what he would do which really pissed me off and looking back i do have love for it but it's not how i parent

uh and it's it's generationally different but he would say things where he would go like you're like you know and it's going to be interpreted incorrectly but whatever but he would say things like you're never going back to school this is it and i'll go yeah i am he'd be like not a chance this is it you've what did you think you were doing taking a break no i thought my mom and i had talked about there was i think it was called waldorf or there was some like arty school in the city yeah and i thought like maybe i'm gonna you know do something cool maybe there's another move and maybe there's some like fictional school that my mom kind of talked about once.

And I guess I'm going to go there and probably going to be like a cool like artist girl. Yeah. And I'll just find my way. It's going to be fine. It'll be cool. I'll do something. Something's going to happen. Yeah.

Come on. Something's going to happen tomorrow. But today. Not great. I'm not doing it today. Yeah. But also not bad. I had, it was an enjoy.

I really got close with my mom uh was your dad around no my dad was he had substance abuse stuff so he was gone when i was uh two and sobered up when i was 18 oh and then we got very good time that's what i was the youngest too i would also be like it took me a while to forgive him because i'm like your timing's just too convenient my man yeah uh 18th birthday you got out of rehab and he's like i'm now available and i'm like hilarious well played this show was sponsored by better help neil how have you grown and how'd you do it i grew by talking to a therapist over a long period of time. And one of the main things that I was doing that was negative for me was comparing myself to people.

I was just jealous and it's a waste of time because I had a lot already and I just wasn't aware of it. I've gone to therapy. It's been hugely helpful. I talk about it just about every episode, probably this one as well. I don't even know which one it's gonna go on. We'll probably talk about therapy.

It's helped my friends. It's helped my friends. It's helped my family. For instance, you can learn boundaries. You can learn having standards for yourself and then setting a boundary. You can learn how to not feel sorry for yourself for too long. You can become the best version of yourself. And it's not just for people who've experienced major trauma. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try.

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I work out. And what else do I do? I walk. I take my walks. Of course, get my steps. I'll walk to get some food. Walk to my lady's house. Don't worry about what I do.

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New customers get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive code that equates to over 40% off your starter pack. Use code NEAL at shopmando.com. That's S-H-O-P-M-A-N-D-O.com. Code Neil. Go there. Smell good. Support the pod. I love you. I love you. You know, within reason. So how did you write the ship? So what basically happened is that year, my mother said, you have to do something. So she would say like, you have to do some version of homeschool so i used to watch like spanish tv and then live translate to my mom and fake it and she didn't know and so it was seeming as if i was doing something and then she said every day you have to do some work so she said why don't you

write and so i wrote a very dramatic play about like brothers, but it was the first time I would like put good music on and sit and write. And then literally like three pages would go by and I'd be like, fucking Billy Shakespeare for three pages. Don't check spelling or grandma, but these are words. It's very dyslexic. Make no mistake. It's madness.

This is very dyslexic. This whole thing is incredibly dyslexic. Make no mistake. It's madness. This is very dyslexic. This whole thing is incredibly dyslexic. Hunter Gibran. Yeah. But I did that thinking that there was some school in the city that my mom had talked about. And then towards the end of the year, you know, then I got a girlfriend and life was going pretty good, actually. Where's your brother? My brother at that time was in college.

Was he worried about you? We've never talked about him. He didn't come and slap the shit out he worried about you uh we've never he didn't come and slap the shit out of you no we've never actually i mean he thought this is weird yeah but we never really got into the details were you always kind of weird though yeah i mean it was always funny so it was always joe it wasn't like you go to my place and i'm in like a basement cutting stuff right you come over it's we fun. Yeah. And then we'd be laughing our asses off. Just don't ask any questions about what I'm doing. And then you'd be like, what did you do today?

And I'd be like, woke up at 2 p.m. And he'd be like, 2 p.m.? And I was like, well, it's because I was up till 6. He's like, it's Wednesday. Yeah. And then I would get my mom into watching TV. And I'd be like, it was fun. We watched a lot of daytime television.

Yeah. Back then, you could do that. It was a blast. It was wall to wall. Yeah, what righted it truthfully was, it was towards the end of the year and my mom said to me, what's your plan? And I said, probably that art school thing.

And she said, did you apply for it? And I go, I don't even know the name of it. And she said, that's all done. You missed it. And I was like, huh. And then she said, that's all done. You missed it. And I was like, huh. And then she said, I think you should just go back to Nutrier a year younger. And I went like. Different character name?

I mean, kind of. But I went like, I mean, honestly, yes. But I went like, oh no. And then I did. And I had to go back. And I was a year younger than my whole class with all new kids. And then I'd be like, I'd walk into the homeroom and the sophomores would be like, Hey man, I think you're in the wrong room. And I'd be like, no, man, I'm here now. And nobody knew. Cause it was such a

big, you were like an undercover cop. I was 21 Jump Street. Yeah. For no reason. For no reason. Are you in 21 Jump Street? Yeah. Yeah. I thought you were. But yes, that is what it was. Yes. And then I had the, oh, fuck. And the anxiety dream that still happens is that I'm in high school and I realize I haven't graduated yet. Because then when I went back, I said, I can't fail again. I can't be in this high school for six years. What if I was in high school and I was 25 years old?

They'll never let if you keep going you don't get to just leave yeah i don't think they can kick you out it's not participation trophy yeah you're still there yeah i think that 35 year old guy from the overalls that's i might be looking at me looking at me so i then uh because of the writing i started bringing that into english teachers and being like i'm working on this and then i had like my first cool english teacher who explained like writings like jazz and then saying like if you don't get this what do you get and then the creative world opened up and then i started doing plays in high school then i started getting good attention and i was like it's all this and you could figure out math and science you could get you could pass that shit i could get enough that i could pass the grade okay um and you just have to then like you'd have to just

work harder than everybody so you'd go like somebody else it was like the kid i always hated with somebody where if you're in a class and they'd be like i didn't do any homework and i gotta be yeah i didn't do any homework i got like a nine percent you know those other people who are like dude i barely read the book i'm like same and i'm like how nine percent you know those other people who are like dude i barely read the book i'm like same and i'm like how'd you do and they're like 78 and like three out of 100 how did you how did you fake this yeah what do you think of school now um now that you're a parent yeah and you see the education system because there should be a place maybe or probably for someone like you i think it's hard man i think there's someone like you. I think it's hard, man.

I think there's so many kids and I think it's really hard to create something that works for all. For everybody, yeah. I think what's really unfair is the economics of it all. That if you have the means to help, you can. And if you don't, you can't. And my family growing up, my mother, we had enough money to live in a nice suburb, but we did not have money considering where we were from so we were not in a situation where you could just

like throw money at tutors yeah so i think it's really tricky i think it was i'm really glad i went through it because then when my kids we first started realizing something was up i was really excited because i can tutor them now so with the stuff like basic stuff like from what you know from back then or for what like tricks like for example if i'm gonna memorize something i can't just read it once or twice and get it i have to i have to read it 10 times i have to write it out on paper and then it starts getting drilled in but there are moves so when my daughter started doing word problems they understand the math but the world problems get into them. And so I would go, we need to read it 10 times before we answer. And now I've seen, since they've been like getting help and working on it, they don't

need to do that. And I'll still go like, honey, we need to read 10 times. And they'll be like, dad needs to read it 10 times. And I'm like, oh, the brain can rewire. And you're like, neat, you can get better and you can get tools right and i'm like so what i really think about education is it really depends on where you are and how you're getting it be rich is what you're saying it's just have your dad be syndicated it's such an unfair system yeah that's what i really feel about the education um that thing you said about the healing thing is pretty fascinating in that, because I'm dealing with a,

I don't know. It's my girl's kid, but I'm like pretty involved. And you see the way you'd speak to him. Yeah. Is totally different than how you speak to yourself. A hundred percent. So how do you,

do you wish there was more of that kindness toward yourself? The kindness you have for your kids. Yeah. Do you wish there was more of that kindness toward yourself? The kindness you have for your kids. Yeah. Do you think there, and, or, and then on the other end is you're lazy. Your mom saying you're lazy, work harder, which is true. You're lazy, work harder, be kind to yourself. Or be kind to yourself. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah. So in my life, not for my kid's life, my wife and i had a lot of big talks when they were younger because i will push my kids sometimes uh i can feel myself wanting to push the this this kid yes and it's hard because you go this generation in the world doesn't like this anymore but going back to what my uncle eddie used to say to me where he would say like you're a fucking loser you don't have it we he taught me chess and he's like you need a game we played it i'm not kidding for three or four months then one day he goes you want to play for money because i started to beat him and i was like sure we played i'm not kidding neil i think it was a one dollar

game he beat me in five moves and i went like okay and he was like you're not good at it i'm like all that time for a dollar hustle but what it did is it put like a fire in me to be like fuck you i hate you i'm going to beat you so when i went back to school and i would be like starting to like you know who really cares i have to show my uncle eddie that you don't know you'll see negative inspiration i love it and a big thing that's been happening when we're talking about the ring is moving i was just talking to my buddy eric about this the guy did the show with if you're not playing with a basis of hate and you'll see gets a little tricky of why you're playing i don't even know who the enemies are anymore i don't know who the bad guys are i don't know who's winning i don't know who's losing

so i'll wake up and i'll be like all right let's figure out what we're doing next and i'm like for just me it used to be really nice when you're like clear rivals because there was only like 12 people playing nowadays i'm like everybody's pretty cool and if they're not cool i don't know them i don't interact with them they're not in my little circle of stuff that i consume yeah so they didn't like something i did gives a fuck who are they right i don't even know who they are but in but there was value to oh the the you will see mentality i would lay in bed that thing would go off in my head of i have to make something i have to figure this out i have to break through it has to work i have to make money i have to figure out this puzzle

i don't care if i sleep i don't care if i'm healthy i don't care how it feels it doesn't matter just fucking win figure it out and that was a really fun way to live. And it's also, it's not a, I mean, I would say it's not a teachable management style, but it was taught for hundreds of years. Exactly right. It was the management style. I always say the only leadership mentors men have are screamers, are military sports.

100% right. So this thing of like- Be kind and gentle to yourself yes well that i think that because my wife is very much into that so she would say things when we were younger i'd go like i wonder what they're going to do with their lives and my wife would go like well i hope they're happy and i'd be like i can have yeah anybody's happy like what are you going to do what's your purpose on life and then as they've gotten older and if things have changed i'm like oh we are all living more in that other world the point of the day is to find happiness to find joy you

and i will both attest to the fact that we're hedging yes i am pursuing happiness and give me money yes that's exactly right and give me fucking success and give me status and i'm back and forth legitimately same always but it's like this some people like to hike to walk around and look at the flowers and smell things and enjoy themselves other people go all right i'm going to try to do 12 miles today up that rocky terrain and it's 98 degrees. And what's fun is either succeeding or failing. So even when I fail, I like when I have something that is pushing me and I'm thinking about it all the time and I'm trying to crack it. And when I lose, and this is what I used to have with gambling, the really weird thing, my addiction to gambling, the reason I finally stopped was I'm not addicted

to winning. I'm addicted to that feeling of loss when it's 3 a.m and i'm in a commerce casino by myself on new girl you know deep into my career playing at a low stakes table and some drunk older guy is playing poorly and i i have unbeat and then he you know flips over his little like hacky win at the end and i'm going what the fuck you doing come on man and he's like hey having fun having fun and i'm like you fucking played like shit and somebody else is going like hey having fun man having fun i have no more money these are all immigrants by the way if you can tell by the accent having fun having fun i don't i thought they were mexican or central american i know now they're asian they went to international school great but when you're playing your mom got them in when you're then i there was a night i had no money left on me no cash and my atm was

insufficient funds from pullout so then i was sitting at a table and i'm like i'm beat i have nothing that guy fucking beat me and i had him and it was a bad beat but who gives but i realized i like this feeling and I was like oh because this feeling I went like because work was fun the game was fine Hollywood was fun projects were coming in it was easy it's like uh a form of cuckery watch is that what it's what no no your cucks yeah like the humiliation of somebody else doing stuff to their wife they're humiliated it's like the chemical release that is yeah that's what cockery is interested so you did it to yourself yes you cut out the middleman and you would and you like kind of feeling bad i liked feeling at the bottom. That flood.

That flood. And that is now it's over. And now if I'm going to do it again, all my little, I used to put my winnings on like the side of my car in this little secret drawer. I was like, that's fucking zero. But it wasn't real money. I wasn't gambling with like my savings. Right.

But now I'm like, fuck, if I want to do another. Just checking. Now, if I have to do another night like this, I got to build back up and I started zero and I got to figure it out. Then I got to figure out what I did wrong. How did I end up here right now? That feeling is exciting to me. And I was like, oh, that's what I like. That is the, in my opinion, the old school way of doing it.

You want to win. You didn't. That fucker did. And he's got the trophy and watch them celebrate. And you're on the court as the confetti is going down you're just the first loser yeah so not how do you feel i feel like my team really bonded we tried hardest we work on our stuff you're the first loser watch them celebrate but you don't get to celebrate that feeling is addictive i also think i mean i this is going to be years before it's proven and i'll be no one's going to care about me but i think in terms of gen z yeah the ones that are going to

really succeed are the animals always of course so there's going to be a bunch of people that are like what are you doing and the animals the these people me the you and me the gerbil people are gonna be the people who dominate and they're gonna be you know scorned and all that stuff but they're gonna but they're gonna succeed in a way that there is a there is merit to money and status of course to act like there's not it It's insane. Is insane. But there's a lot going on that when I look at what's happening, I'll go like, this is insane logic. Because of course there is. Because that's power.

And if you have power, then you can dictate your time. So what are you secretly teaching your kids? So what I'm trying to teach. So my wife, I think, is teaching them love and acceptance and try to have a happy life. And I'm reminding them that you got to have a little grit and it's okay to do hard things. Like for example, I just started making them do very brief workouts in my garage. I like lifting weights. I always have, it's fun. So what I like about it is what I'm making them do now is they're doing these like little squat thrusters and I'll look at my daughter and she'll have like, she'll be at four and I could tell she's tired. My

instinct is to put my arm around her be like you're done you did so good but i like saying you can do hard things it's supposed to be unpleasant there's no ac this is a hot box yeah we're working on a disgusting little sauna yeah it's ridiculous the music's too loud that weight is heavy and then i'll say like it's over your head do not drop it there's no safety net then meanwhile it's like a gorgeous adU in Silver Lake. But it's a hot box. There's only three air conditioning units. Well, the aesthetic is hot box. I feel the wonderful aesthetic.

Yeah, it's a barn. Also, there is upside down. There's a trainer holding the weights for my daughter. Yeah, of course. Of course. Of course. Hollywood. But I like that.

That's what I'm trying to do. I make them do things like jujitsu. I make them do i like that what's that's what i'm trying to do i make them do things like jujitsu i make them do stuff like that i i'm now we realized we were buying them too much stuff without thinking so now it's an allowance and they don't get to spend it unless it's their money i got how old are they 10 great but i'm like i like that feeling of them being like i didn't get that and i'm disappointed well what i mean it's hard to say which parts of life were too harsh yes when it worked yeah like i because i look i started working when i was 11 and i'm like 11 yeah i started caddying at indian hill at indian hill where did you grow up in wilmette oh you did and then i moved oh when

did you move 86 so and then where to chicago i'm, Philly. Oh, interesting. So I started caddying when I was 11 in Indiana Hill. Yeah, for sure. So that seems young. Yes. But I was mowing lawns my whole life. Yeah, to carry rich people's luggage. Yes. Like their sports luggage.

But at the same time, I can't argue with the results yeah yeah so i don't know like even my i don't know either how old is your uh girlfriend's son four almost four so he but he said he he lost he hates losing and me and my girlfriend were talking he was like he lost and he was mad and my girl was like you you know, you have to learn how to improve. And he's like, and living is not a big deal. And he was like, yeah, I know. And then he literally said to himself, but I have to win. So it's like, and we both were kind of like, that's a deep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a decent thing to have. Yes, I agree. If you can control it. Now we both know you can't control it but it's a good thing to be able to tap into but i also think uh if you hate losing it's okay you're gonna lose right but it's okay you're gonna lose less probably but also like it's okay to feel bad so yeah like he really likes to win when he. Yeah. But when you lose and you're crying and you're throwing a fit, suck it up.

You lost. Yes. That doesn't mean you're going to lose tomorrow. Right. But right now you lost. Yes. So you can either keep crying or like, let's play again. Yes.

But what I don't understand is the parents then will always then just let their kids win. They never want them to feel any pain. I feel like there's a generation of you're trying to keep all discomfort and pain away. Yes. But I'm like, they are gonna feel it it's a disservice because when they get older the world isn't gonna go like i know well how are you right now were you raised gentle yeah you know what let me abuse that guy but just come on i didn't realize you had a wonderful loving we have no expectations for you go stand over there i'm gonna hire you for a job that you can't do and pay it's like my mother raised my siblings and i as if the world was going to really be ready to fight us at 18 and it was going to be really hard and my siblings and i've talked about the world was easier than

we thought it was going to be based on what like my mom had said yeah i thought adulthood was going to be like be careful like the thing is gonna hit and when it hits it hits hard and it is pretty combative like i think about i think about i mean i i think about catting at 11 it was fucking hot yeah we would get like graded yeah and and they'd write a review of course you should you're an employee i i i know but nowadays if you write a review and it's negative i know you're like i know you're a monster but it just what it's done for me is i've just gone inward a lot tip for coffee tip for everything no i know tip everything's a tip now and again we're a million years old but it's like i would get a bad grade

and it's like hey i'm 11 they didn't and it's like, hey, I'm 11. They didn't say for an 11, there was no. You didn't do a great job. No, I wasn't good at it. And that's okay because you can get better. But right now you weren't great at it. Correct. And I do look back fondly at my, I mean, you know, 50-50.

Because there's also the person who pushes you. You're always mad at them where you go like, you could have been nicer. And then I go, but also I love that you did that. Did you get, I have so many questions for you. Where did you think your dad was? I know where he was. Where was he? It was Terrell Owens.

He was close. He was in Northbrook or Northfield somewhere. What was he doing? He owned a car dealership on the South side and he had a cocaine problem. So he got the way we go. When my side and he had a cocaine problem so he got the way we go when my dad and i became close we did the thing where you and i did when we first met i was like oh you're one of me and he went you're one of me his brain more than your other brother

no this is my dad right right but i'm saying i have an older brother and an older sister okay and he he no i think he so the truth of it is my brother and my dad got very close my brother is a way more loving person and they forgives way easier okay right away my brother was like hey man let's let bygones be bygones we all have we all didn't raise our kids even though my brother's a wonderful dad my sister really wanted her dad back so she challenged him but they figured it out and me i was like yeah i could probably hold on to spite forever because you missed all the big years man and now your timing is too convenient and i see you and then year after year and he was in the program and the program you know aa and they teach you like just keep showing up and they give you these tools and i thought those tools are fake because i know you

right now i know these tools like you're talking about god did you feel like the you there's no way you believe in god or this is convenient it's all well there's also you know my dad is a born jewish atheist guy who did coke all the time partied his ass off and was a crooked businessman now you're into god like god just showed up at the right time uh and so i would do really prick things to him where he'd be like i would love to talk and so i'd be like great let's meet out and i'd meet at a bar and i'd smoke merits because he smoked merits and i'll drink stoli on ice because he did and i wanted to always just be like, I don't buy it. And then over time, he just kept showing up and kept showing up.

And I started seeing, we have similar things. And then we started talking and we started getting close. And then at around, I think it was 26. What were the things? Just out of curiosity. I don't know. Conception of the world or something? Conception of the world, the way we viewed business,

the way we like even stupid things, how we watch sports, how we would talk about teams. I'd be like, I can get really obviously like this about theories, and so could he. And I'd be like, what do you think of Kerry Wood? And he'd be like, he's a kid, but here's what's good about him. Here's what's bad. And I'd be like, you just talked for 40 minutes about a guy you've never met yeah and this is you not on coke yeah and didn't read any articles yeah pretty

impressive great man pretty impressive right and so then we got very close and so i wouldn't say he and i got like it was like we just do you understand what he was doing or is it still like you fucked up but i forgive you i definitely forgive him uh but i you know honestly what i think and what was having what having kids was really hard is is uh what people don't tell you especially that generation of men where it's like he was prostitutes coke and work what the reason i was able to forgive him is he missed so much fun and oh okay he i was like i hated him because i was like you missed all the work man we needed you and you weren't willing to work because you were at a bulls game with friends and in having kids i'm like tuesday night is so fun one of the reasons i don't take jobs is

i won't go uh outside of the city i don't want to miss these nights i don't like leaving like even today like we had a whole day planned like different things that they go to it's you get enter a bit world and you enter a tone with your and it's really fun it's funny because i said it's like writing it's like writing for somebody yeah in from my point of view it's like i'm trying to come up with bits he likes yes exactly right like i'm like you how about this bit yes and yesterday i was just kind of bombing i just didn't have couldn't think of good bits and he was literally like it ain't working my man yeah he was just pissed and i was like i gotta you gotta help me yes connect and then but when you do you'll have periods of time where like

man i'm really bonding with my daughter we had like a a great run. And what I realized when my kids were born and I was liking it, I thought like, you do this, this is your job and you'd be better than your dad. But this is another way to win. And what really turned for me is I was like, oh, it's so sad he missed this. And he understood that. And we would talk about it and he'd be like, I missed it all because of fucking coke, man I was like oh I thought you had it all right and I was like oh I flipped it because I was a kid I thought you were like having sex with all these babes and blowing coke and meeting Charles like he was buddies with Charles Oakley Scotty Pippin and I was like you got all that I just got this yeah and then when you get older

you go oh when he would tell me a story of like the coke got on top of him and he believed they were coming to get him and he would be like i was paranoid for days i'm like oh well we were a lot of fun yeah like and we all get along my siblings and i all loved him before he passed like if you could have just stopped doing coke we would have been there that weekend and you would have loved it man yeah so you go like oh that's so sad like you miss and you that's a fast i've never heard anyone say that but i really thought it at his funeral because i was sitting at his funeral and all these people were talking and i was like oh yeah this man is more than just my dad they're these people are talking about him when he was in college and his i was seeing all these photos and i went in his life his 79 years

of life he missed his kid's childhood and i was like i'm just so sad for this guy ken who i love he blew it yeah and you go like oh you never get that back yeah and i thought like that's awful man and that was a deep that was the end of me being like, yeah, I have been forgiving him for years, but I just feel, I love this guy who was so good to me as an adult. I was like, I just love the guy. How was he good to you as an adult? When I had, I was a kid with a huge no dad chip on my shoulder. Everybody had something I didn't have.

Everybody understood something I didn't have. I hated authority. I hated men. I didn't have. Everybody understood something I didn't have. I hated authority. I hated men. I only liked women. So it was, oh, if any man would say anything, was always like, fuck you. And then I kind of bottomed out at 25 or 26, broke up with a girlfriend in New York,

did a very stupid project called Project Joke, which is never finished and terrible. Had no money and asked if i could live with him in chicago in chicago on in his uh condo and we just started hanging and becoming buds and he would say things like can i give you a business a business advice and i'd go sure and he would go you talk about everything like it's a team everybody you know is on your team he's an actor he's you go all break in is 50 guys it's boxing you go in there you win you get the prize not everybody and i was like oh you're such a capital that's so wrong it is a team but i was like interesting so

when you're talking before of like you want to win and you get stuff and then that one animal you said who's going to win that's generation that's the stuff he would be telling me if you by the way i don't i was with you yeah i was us yeah always i've been disappointed by the lack of us same yeah because but it doesn't exist but i know because but when it's us and you don't protect you the us turns on you yeah and it's also funny they whenever they write books about scenes of like the second whatever no one ever says that person's in it they never say like there was no there wasn't much there was some camaraderie but it was it was an inch deep yes a, 100% right. It wasn't like a, this is every man for himself. But it's us and looking back.

Because you go, looking back, I actually do love all you guys. Yeah. Like it was a really great era. But in the time, it's eat what you kill. Yeah, and it's also, from my point of view, I can't be mad at the people who weren't us. Yeah, same. Who didn't want to be on the us

because like that wasn't their conception also but also it doesn't exist so my dad taught me that so when i came out to la i had that idea so i had my fantasy of what i thought it was i really thought you form one team and you do you know the movies yes oh but with everything yep that i wanted to work with the same people every time no new people and then when people can grow into the group then they can be involved in yeah and when i got out here i thought like and i was doing it a little bit i'd work with the same directors and then you just start going like we're all just into we like each other we have affection for each other but if we do this thing and we're improvising it and writing it together and blowing it up and doing this thing and you pop you have to ask me to come

with you and i was like so it's your thing so i'm just helping you with your thing and i'm happy to do it but i did view this shit as our thing and you go oh that's just and you're not a snake this is just what it is yes did you think were you over that by the time new girl started no new girl was really early for me so okay so you were still on some us shit oh and so new girl was the well there's your i mean that must have been new girl was the lesson new girl was the brick hitting my head and i was finding like oh this is the childhood dream you always wanted but it doesn't feel the way you think it's gonna feel right and you go but this i always

wanted to be on a tv show i always wanted to do this thing and then you go were uh ted danson and and george ratzinger he meant george went close but even you know honestly for me people from cheer if you're young it's this show called Cheers, two of the characters. But what it was even more that was really weird and really just probably a lack of understanding it was because I liked the whole cast. It was fun. We did so many bits. It was easy. I liked the crew.

I just, it wasn't a fantasy. It was work. Yeah. And what I didn't realize in terms of the us, and I really believed that this was a way to do a life without working. It was, you're on set, you're doing bits, you're having fun. And then I realized, oh, it's your job to make it seem fun. So there was a day I had really bad food poisoning and I just felt terrible. And so there was a scene where my character had to like eat a bunch of hamburgers on a couch. And honestly, it was going to explode out of every hole and my up to that point with everything i had done i'm doing a live

show we only pictured your asshole by the way no one pictured your mouth just fyi okay i think i'm no i know you're fine with it somebody right now watching this while eating like oh come on man my burrito just finished yes sir um ma'am so real man i'm sorry i'm so sexist the sir's fine he's going like this yeah oh you know it's gross most of the women are fine too um there's a few sensitive folks did you okay and then so here's what happened on that so i was i had a great a talk with one of the producers who was really nice who said we can't get around this. So with it, we can't come back here.

We have to do it today. And I had a moment where I realized like, it doesn't matter how I feel. It's my job to make this really fun and funny for people, but it's not really fun and funny for me. And my dream is when you're on set and you're doing bits and it's really fun for you. But I also realized in that era, that's irrelevant. Your feelings about doing it when you do press, it's we had the best time. Well, in it, you might be pushing through and slunging through and your brain's not

working or somebody else's brain or the work's not working or the writer feels you challenge it. When we were talking at the end of mine, where I was like, one of the reasons I haven't taken a job is I don't want to get into the fight again. I'll get a script. I'll talk to somebody. They'll pitch me the movie. I'll feel excited about it.

I'll be like, I think I could do this. I like you. I like this. I'll read the script. I'll get to page five. My character will have a joke that I do not, I'm not going to say. Well, in the past, I would still say yes.

And I'll be like, we'll just figure it out in the hotel room. They'll hate me. They'll think he's fucking controlling. He's not as funny as he thinks he is i'll think they're a fucking hack they think they're a genius we'll get in this whole thing we'll find the middle ground and in post they'll text and be like i think we found it brother yeah i'll be like love you man yeah and i'm like that meanwhile they were mad at you the whole time you didn't want to do that and i was mad at them you were pissed at them they're pissed at you and even if they

find it you're kind of like yeah but like it wasn't a good experience. It was difficult to put. Then one of the cast members really hates one of them. Then somebody and you're like, you're in this whole drama filled thing. And in the past, there just wasn't that much stuff. So you did it, but it would affect culture and people would see it. Now you're like, we did all that. And then it disappeared on one of

the apps that i'm not sure is a real app yeah it might just be advertisement for other products they're doing and they're not going to release their numbers because literally nobody on planet earth watched it you're talking about the amount you used to be able to do all the it you had to do all this work and it was kind of worth it and now you do the same amount of work and the shit evaporates and then you go so then you go so what it's really about is having a fun time well having a really fun time does not equate to good work so then you're like so what we're essentially pitching each other is go to camp and do archery well i would rather be home with my kids and do archery with you fools i don't know

you guys that well yeah and i'm definitely not gonna do archery in another state so can we do archery in my backyard yeah while my kids are in school? And that's where you go back. I used to. I used to. I do. Kobe Bryant. Yeah.

I did a couple of commercials with him. Had to shoot within 10 minutes of his house. Incredible. Sold to the lady in the front. Next item on the block. Nike Air Zoom Elite 8. What was he like on set? Just perfect.

Yeah. Just no bullshit. I had to go in and walk him through the day by the minute. Incredible. Just like, hmm. Yeah. Then you're going to go here. You're going to do social photos.

But any of those ads, any commercial with an athlete in it they're kind of like nike already paid me yeah yeah yeah they're not gonna sue me for the money yeah so what is this commercial gonna do make me more famous yeah what is the point what's the point of doing like to the where not like where you are but it's like what is the kind of like what is now what with that it's like this isn't even my job with you it is your with me it's our job so it does bring up the question of what's the golden ring yeah what is the what is the overall point i feel like do you feel like you uh resolved shit within yourself in terms of your talent what does that mean like you moved out here wondering if you could do it yes uh that check mark was honestly kind of checked when i

was doing commercials but like that i wanted to be on tv yeah and you were on tv the dream was not you know i had a moment with one of my agents right after the pandemic, like in the end of it, where we were talking about opportunities. And he said, there's a little bit of interest in you. They'd like to meet with you for a play off Broadway in New York. And I started to laugh. And he said, why are you laughing? And I said, like, that's an insane offer from my point of view.

It was that was the goal was never that thing. And so just being on television like one of my goals was i wanted a convertible and i wanted a pool and i wanted to live in los angeles because growing up in the 80s you're like that's what actors have yes michael you go like i don't know that little guy moved out to california yeah does family ties and then he's in a convertible and then he's got a house with a he's doing an interview he's got a pool I was like that's real life yes so nowadays I'm like I'm I've been searching and I don't have the answer you know podcasts have been fun because I always like something new yeah so I need something that I could be like I don't know

what this puzzle is but I'm having a really hard time with the idea of independent movies I'm having a really hard time the idea of television independent movies. I'm having a really hard time with the idea of television. Cause you're like, well you sign on. And then what you need to do is be like, you know what? Season two, episode 14 was dog shit, but who cares?

We made great money and people love it. And I'm like, well, I care. Those are hours of your day. And I don't like to do stuff that I don't believe in. When I'm there, I do want to try.

I do want it to be good. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings and I don't want to get in a big debate. And I'm not trying to take away your vision because let's be honest, there's not much of a vision. This episode's terrible. So then you go like, so whatever that thing is, that's been the golden ring where I'm like,

I don't know the answer to that anymore. Guys, this is an ad that's been a long time coming because I live it. I'm out here living this is called getting it how you live this is an ad for the washington post now i've been a subscriber of the washington post probably four or five years i wouldn't say i'm a political junkie but i'm a i have a politics problem that i can handle it's not a problem it's only a problem if you can't afford it and with this deal you can afford it. This podcast is sponsored by The Washington Post. Right now, go to WashingtonPost.com slash Neil, and you can subscribe for just 50 cents per week for a year.

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A lot of us like to stop the steal. Don't stop the steal. Steal this. a lot of us like to stop the steal don't stop the steal steal this once again the washington post.com slash n-e-a-l to subscribe for just 50 cents per week for your first year you're a sucker if you don't do this washington post.com slash n-e-a-l 50 cents goodbye um you the thing that i you mentioned on your i don't know if you're going to keep it in your podcast, which I did. I don't know when that's up.

But we talked about... I've talked about a very harrowing DMT story. You had a harrowing mushroom story. Yeah, well, mine wasn't mushroom. No. It wasn't? No. Mine was a version of depersonalization.

Is this before dropping out or after? Probably after. I feel like it's probably after. More time on your hands. But there became a part of my way, and through therapy you understand it more, kind of, but a way of dealing with stress or dealing with life is that I could step outside of my own feelings a little bit. But you, but it happened to you. Yeah. Tell them what happened to you. Well,

no, but it's not like yours. It was mine. Isn't like a moment. Okay. So what I love about your story was there was a moment that happened. I inhaled something and then, and then you were on another space that would take over half your brain and that you could be on a date yep and in one eye in one vision you were in one galaxy it wasn't like a hard split it was a soft even if it's soft yeah yeah uh so i've never had that yeah mine what did you have yeah what i still have great go yeah mine. Yeah. Mine is never, you know, it'll get better and worse at certain times, but it'll be the only way I've always described is just feeling out of it. It feels like I've eaten weed or I'm on mushrooms where I'll just start

feeling spaced out and everything will feel a little bit far away. And I know that I'm here and I'm present, but it just doesn't feel like I'm here you know that you're Jake Johnson of course and you what do you what else do you know you know everything about your life you're just sort of watching it I'm just well it's not like I'm physically watching it I'm just not feeling anything so for example if I was going to get beat up and as I'm getting beat up it wouldn't be like this pain is so intense. It would be like, this is really wild. This is happening right now. And so that disconnect from feelings, the only way I can connect it to anything is when you eat too much weed. Yeah.

And you go like, whoa, I have a tongue. Yeah. That's a big part of the way my brain works. Where every once in a while I'll see my hand and I'll be like, even driving today I saw these freckles. And I was like, oh, my hand is now looking like my dad's hand. And I just saw my dad's hand and I saw his little skin things. But then I saw him when he was like 80 and I'm like, ooh. And now I'm outside of him.

And then I have to go, listen, goofball, you're driving. And then like pull in and focus in.'re driving look at your phone try to find a song on spotify and crash into a car yeah but so mine isn't a hard line it is more a gray mine is all gray and it's it's more flashbacky or more associative it's more dissociative is it like your wife be like we're late you'll be like oh that's huh kind of but i'll have that not like i know i'll have to do all this stuff because in my head it'll be like you know you're probably here for 35 more years what do you want to do next so if i'm like reading a script and i'm talking to someone they're a good salesperson and i'm like man i really like the way they talk about this movie and it's gonna be you and this other person it's gonna be fun and i'll be like i like them

i like this then when i'm reading i kind of step outside a little bit and i'm like how many more days do i have do i really want to be like dealing with that guy's writing partner where I go like, so this joke, the tone of all my characters jokes feels like it was written by, feels like it was written. Right. By a sitcom. Yeah. And I'm like, but so can we do these? And then they'll go like, yeah, yeah. So I love that.

I love it. Can we try them both ways? And I go like, I'm not going to try them both ways because I don't want to do that. You don't have that. Yeah. And then you go like, and you see somebody go like, fuck, well, we need him. I don't want to do you to have that yeah and then you go like and you see somebody go like fuck well we need him i don't want to disrespect him and i go but i don't want to put you in that stomachache yeah i don't want you to feel like you have to give up on your vision so i pass what's the what do you think of it all and what's the is a very broad two very broad

questions what do you think of your entire life and what do you think the point of you was what do you first of all you what do you think of your entire life i used to think life wasn't fair yeah totally and i now i think life isn't fair no one's life should be this good i'm the luckiest for sure fucking person it's unbelievable yeah it's un it's you can't even it's not if i woke up in a coma from a coma and they said all i'd be like what it's like those great videos of the people who get like they get knocked out take their teeth out and then wake up and look at their wife and they're like you're beautiful yeah that's how that's that's where i am where i'm like what did i do i can do what for sure i wrote what it's unbelievable what's the point i have a podcast yeah um you could believe that no yeah all right what anything else um uh that's impossible i'm on you believe that no one's

allowed to be on youtube um so that would be and then the purpose i'm t i'm still unsure yeah for sure you should be how about anybody but anyway who claims they exactly know their purpose they become like missionaries yeah you shouldn't have your purpose too clear because this is all made up. I used to think life was the struggle. So when you say life isn't fair, I thought life was you push that rock up the hill. And what's great is you figure out how to do it. And we both pushed it well. And it's fun.

It's hard. And then when your back hurts, you change it and you push it and you push it and you push it. And then that's hard. And then when your back hurts, you change it and you push it and you push it and you push it. And then that's changed. And the purpose, then the easy one is like, well, I guess the purpose is my kids. But the problem with kids is they keep growing up. And with each year, they do need you less or they need you differently. It's wild.

It's wild. It's a weird, I'd say to my girlfriend, it's like a sunset. Yes. That's exactly what it is. Where you're like i it's so beautiful but it's kind of boring yes but it's a little repetitive but you know what's going away so you're like but it's like a sunset that one day is going to move out and then there's not going to be the sun yeah it's going to call and then when and then once it sets forever after

you're going to annoy the sunset when you go like could you be around me and do the sunset thing hey are you setting today and you feel and i'll just sit at the beach and watch you set with your family and you know that's coming so you know well i need another purpose that keeps me going and so i used to think life was the finding the joy in the struggle. And now it's trying to hold onto things while they're here. When I was young, my aunt came into our house and was dying of cancer and lived with us while she died. And so I watched her pass away and watching somebody die at a really formative year years was really trippy because we would have these great talks. And I was like her main nurse and she would explain to me what death was like, where she would say things like, she'd go, you want to know why I fell while

we were walking? And I'd be like, why? And she'll go, because my brain was like this. And then it went like that. And I'd be like, whoa. And then you start going like, oh, this is going to end. There is going to be a day where you go to the doctor and right now they always go like pretty good a little fat you could be less fat and i'd be like can't relate go on it's awful go on enjoy that though fatty i mean unfortunately i enjoy the stuff that makes me i don't enjoy the fatty yeah but it's always like the same but like you're fine checks out everything good so you're like okay there is going to be a day where they go like can we do this in person and you go just give me the

call where you say it's good and they're like so we'd like to come in and you're like oh now i'm in that phase of life so right now i feel like i'm just trying to hold every like the kids are good the wife is good work is good i'm still liking all the weird puzzle stuff we're not in a world war everything's not insane yet and i'm like oh so the purpose for me right now is like just hold on until the next big turn because what you were saying about lucky it's good right now yeah but you know it's a sunset with each second the sun's going down and i'm like i don't want it to go down be night through the whole arc again we're here right now but it's really hard to stay present and just go like just be a greater human

and understand that like all time is real i'm like no i don't feel that way i know it's going down the sun used to be bigger. And so I think that's part of the thing. How do you, the purpose right now is how do you breathe this in, you know, in terms of TV, when you were saying this is TV at the end of mine, when we were talking.

At the end of, of, we're here to help. I was saying that like, this is what he was on a sitcom 10 years ago. And it was like, it was a big deal. Yeah. And now you're also, you're still on a sitcom. It's, and it was a big deal. Yeah.

And now you're still on a sitcom. It's just different. It just doesn't- 100% right. It doesn't hit right. It doesn't hit the same. It's different. Yeah.

But you have a base audience. You can see your analytics. They listen every time. They're always in your life. So doing these shows is similar to- Totally. Which is a trip. Which is a-

But by the way, this is what I watch. Right, I know. I was talking to my buddy, Eric. We were talking about the business, and he goes, what are you watching? And I went, OGs, which is Mike Miller. The Miami Heat. Yeah. The Miami Heat.

And they just sit around and talk about what the locker rooms were like. And I'm like, well, if I have 20 minutes while I'm eating something, no one's home. I watched a full Paul George paul george interviewing deandre jordan to dallas i was kind of like the devil you know what i'm saying like the full the ad like but i was in like on my on a screen i've been watching jj reddick yeah i've just started yeah i mean jay just had a jay. I mean, JJ's been the truth. Well, what's funny is I don't watch the NBA anymore. So I have fallen off, but I'm watching their TV shows.

And I'm like, I'll be sitting there watching it. I'm like, I don't even watch the game anymore, but this is good television. Yes, it's genuinely interesting. You know what started with Rashawn McCants was telling a story about he- i was watching yes and they were who was the guy uh pat beverly was my favorite and they were talking about a tryout they did and uh pat beverly was saying he made rishad quit i didn't quit for shit i didn't quit because pat beverly was out there also you quit because you was hurt yes and they were going back and forth and i thought like this is my favorite

sitcom i love these guys if this was single cam and it had a little 70s grain to it this could win awards the whole i mean put it in a diner was the best show on tv for i mean so this is just that was like a polished podcast yeah yeah yeah yeah um so i'm not even mad at it yeah you know what i mean because i'm watching like yeah i'm it's i'm the problem right it's the same hundred percent i remember my niece and nephew saying that they didn't listen to music right and i was like what and then it occurred to him like it occurred to me like if you've got video games you don't need that fills the hole yeah but here's the other thing i was my kids were watching some show on netflix and i'm not going to say the name to be disrespectful but what was really trippy is they liked it there was not a recognizable face in it it looked like one of those shows where it was all local atlanta

hires but even the leads yeah where i'm like all right so this was either all vancouver all atlanta it used to be you're starting five where, you also saw in like the championship in college. Yeah. Where you're like, that's Carmelo Anthony at number one. Then you're like, number three is not great, but they used to be. Yeah. And then your number five was a killer. Yep.

Now I'm like, who's the number? I was going to my daughter. I was like, what do you guys like about it? They're like, it's funny. And I'm like, first of all, their tone was all over the place. One guy was in a full multicam. Somebody else was doing a little drama. And then like the grandmother character, I'm like, that woman does not know where she is.

Jake, I'm getting the sense it doesn't matter. I don't know how to tell you this. I just didn't get the distinct impression that I think we may have overstated the importance of the showbiz we were in. Yeah, maybe that is true. And I think like it's just diversion. But the problem with that because i agree with you because the problem is some of us have to be serious to we you i can't i can't do it if i don't care i know and the problem with it is when you go back to the purpose of life or what is life

i like the work i like when there's a group of people and we all really care and we've worked out the thing that they're going you're number one you're number two i'm number two we're building this thing and there's moments where the crew too i love when an operator will go like can i try this yeah and you go yes and then the director goes like you have a moment where you're like we're finding something and when you hit it you know people are gonna like it right and this is probably how men on sailboats felt in the 1600s yeah but then they created motorboats and airplanes what i'm really what i know is happening is i'm a silent film era actor yeah

and i'm going like the talkies are no good. I'm like, you want to see real acting? I'm like, I just showed you every emotion. This guy says, this hack over here goes, I'm sad my wife left. Let me show you this. Yeah. And I'm like, wait, not everybody like the new kids don't like the silent films. Yes. And we, by the way, we don't either. Why would I?

I don't fucking watch a fucking stupid movie. Come and talk to me about depersonalization. by the way we don't either why would i i don't fucking watch a fucking stupid movie come and talk to me about about depersonalization that's showbiz and that's entertainment all right that was great buddy yeah Have it real, my man All you have to do is open, open up your hand My man