Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Jim Norton

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Jim Norton ('Nikki & Jim,' 'Jim Norton & Sam Roberts,' 'Opie & Anthony,' standup specials + more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. --------------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ Have a Question about your Blocks for Neal? 🎙️ Email “[e-mail]” to have your question answered on a future episode.  ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 1:19 Sex Addiction 30:43 Compulsion 41:15 Negative Confirmation Bias 50:18 Greed 1:07:00 What He’s Done  1:08:27 Emotional Goals ---------------------------------------------------------- https://nealbrennan.com for tickets Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Neal's Instagram: https://instagram.com/nealbrennan Neal's Twitter: https://twitter.com/nealbrennan Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle -------------------------------------------------------- https://www.betterhelp.com/NEAL for 10% OFF your first month Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello. My guest today is a guy I've known not well for over 20 years. He's nodding that I didn't know him well, and I don't know him well. A great comic, sort of New York staple, and a satellite radio staple, just told me 20 years on satellite, Opie and Anthony, and his own solo show now you hit an hbo series called down and dirty with jim norton he's a bunch of hbo specials you have a youtube channel now with your wife yeah who is trans i believe and we'll get into that yep as we progress jim norton everybody jim norton it is true we don't know each other well like i know you and i like you for a long time but that's how it is in the business some guys you just see like i'm comfortable when i see you to say hi and sit down yeah but then you'll eat in front of me i'll eat in front of you it's there's no like what i know about you i'm always interested in though which i'm happy to i'm happy to have you because i'm always here's what my observation about you just from far away

so people like me started doing well burbiglia started doing those sort of emo shows i started doing emo shows and then hasan and hannah gadsby and a few other people uh that i'm forgetting jackie novak's got one now alex edelman etc but you were talking about weird shit early like you in what's is it candy rain the name of the hbo special uh monster rain monster rain i was gonna look it up and forgot you talk about being molested you know my therapist said i was molested i i was at a point i was blowing all my friends as a kid and my therapist says you were molested and i show all the signs because one of the kids was a bully like i was terrified of him and i would blow him in his little budweiser bathing trunks uh budweiser uh he weird bathing trunks, and they smelled like mothballs.

To completion, you would blow him? No, we were too young. Okay. My dick didn't even get hard at that age. Okay. This was like second grade, third grade, first grade. Got it. But I never felt like I was molested.

I mean, maybe that was. What is that? What do you think was happening? Because there is that thing. I feel like girls experiment more sexually around that age where you'll hear girls like first yeah awareness of sexuality be like me and my friends started rubbing ourselves against pillows yeah what was the guy because i didn't have any of the guy version no a lot of a lot of guys do and a lot of guys don't but it was really weird it was like something

in the water in edison new jersey i had 10 sexual partners before fourth grade. And I know that because I remember when I moved, which was Halloween of fourth grade was my first day of school in North Brunswick. So any memories I have from Edison are before that time. And you're picking on guys you're going to blow? You know, we just kind of happened. Like we would trade sucks. Like you give me 10.

It's transactional my whole life. No surprise I like sex work because, you know, you give me 10 sucks, I'll give you 10 sucks. And then there was two bullies who I would do it with. There was girls too, but the girls were a little scarier. Like, the vagina scared me because I didn't know what it was. But I got my ass fetished from a girl who was a year older than me. I think the piss stuff that I've done, I got a fetish from. I would have this brother and sister who were my age or a year older.

In second grade, they would both piss their pants a lot and I would hide behind the bushes and I would always get one of them to sit on my face so I could breathe it in. That's so funny. I mean, it's so extreme. And what's always been fascinating about you is that you, and also you're doing it on

open anthony and now your show which i in my head is more right wing you know we're more conservative when it comes to stuff like crime and punishment language policing but as far as being sexuality and things like that i mean our show was oh and it was a barbaric hilarious show that made fun of everything but they never cared about people being gay or bisexual like in a legal sense like they were never against gay people but even like culturally it's just like you would say i i blow guys and it wasn't it was more just like you're weird or you're like it wasn't even your it was maybe you're gay but it was always yes i'm not gay but i'm definitely not straight mean, you can't be straight and be in a relationship with a woman who has a dick.

There's just no way. Despite what gender studies professors will try to bark at you, it's just not the truth as far as I see it. But I was never a good ally for like LGBT, never saw me as an ally because of the people that I'm with and the jokes I make and the things I've said. So they just kind of like, they didn't fuck with me. Right, but it is an interesting... Well right here's a question whatever your your vague sexuality is do you feel like most people who's either they're non-binary or they're

trans or they're all these new sort of they're not new category they're not new they're named the naming them is new yeah categorizing them but do you think that your experience is that off for most people within that realm i don't know i mean uh to be really honest because i don't understand a lot of it i would assume it's very contradictory and confusing within yourself well i mean for me i mean there's no way to consider myself straight. I never have. Like, you know, so many guys will say like they misread it and they'll go, you're with my wife's name is Nick. You're with her.

And you think that like he says he's not gay. He's delusional. But I'm not. If I was gay, I'd tell you I'm gay. I don't give a fuck. I'm 55 years old. I'm not nervous to say it. But I like vaginas, too.

So it has to be bisexual. It has to be. I mean, I don't like all the new terms. I'm sure some of them are legit. I just am old and don't understand them. But I also think a lot of them are, hey, this sounds unique. And we all have chronic uniqueness. I had it growing up.

And if I was 15, I'm sure I would have had a bunch of different labels for myself. So for me, it's hard to determine what's legit, what is attention-seeking, what is a phase, what makes somebody really transgender. I don't know the answer to it. Well, yeah, and I think we could talk about it endlessly and still not know. Yeah. My question for you would be,

in terms of your sexual taste, is it like ordering off a menu? Or not ordering off a menu, what kind of food do I want tonight? Like Thai or Japanese or German, or going on Pornhub and being like, off a menu or or not ordering off a menu uh what kind of food do i want tonight like thai or japanese or german or like yeah we're going on porn hub and being like old lady i like ladies sure so then i within ladies i go i don't know maybe let's see if that's anything it's like it's more like blindly reaching my head into a bucket and whatever i pull out i'm like i'll eat that

but is it that random does it feel that random. Like whatever it is that will turn me on, it changes. It's like, you know, for a long time it was a feat. And then I'm like, no, I don't care about feet or just being smothered by your girls. It really, it depends on the moment and the day what I'm going to look for. I mean, there's certain things that like would never turn me on. You know, and the typical stuff that doesn't turn most sane people on piss uh well you know let's not be crazy yeah let's not be crazy i mean it's it's a fetish it's a beverage it's anything you want it to be okay so what i mean it's i'm sort of jumping

around here because there's a bunch of the uh the well the first the first block is sex addiction so we'll show that we'll place all that under here within a marriage you'll go through a cycle of what turns you on however long a week a month a year whatever can nikki provide all this or is the understanding like sometimes i i like what you offer and other times i need to leave or, or she tries to accommodate what you're into. She's pretty open, but she's also pretty traditional. Like she's very, very like,

she's a very literal person. She's not into role play or dirty talk. She's just, let's get to it. She's tactile. Dirty talk is so embarrassing. I'm, I like it cause I'm pretty good at it and I'm a great dirty texter.

But I can see it being embarrassing if someone's not comfortable with it. I just find the writing bad. Yeah, some of it can be. It's all like guys all say the same thing and women all say the same thing. Yeah, like, hey, you're so wet. I mean, that's shit. Yeah, or like, are you my whole,

just all this like, it's hacky immediately. If you mean it. Like if you, to me, a person meaning it is very important. Armie Hammer. Armie Hammer, you know what? That's a typical... I look at that as such a not a big deal. As long as he didn't...

I don't know if he forced that woman or not. It's like that documentary about the cop who wanted to eat people. Gilbert, whatever his name was. Yeah, I knew one of the girls in that porn. Of course you did. Who I love. Her name is Pepper Kester. She's one of the sexiest women in history.

She would do a lot of that cannibal porn or whatever. Yeah. It's like, can you say, I want to eat you like what's wrong i i even with army hammer obviously once you're into physical non-consensual physical harm then i go yeah that you can't do that but texting if he's into if it's i i don't know if it's non-consensual or if she's just a jilted ex who hates him i don't know i don't know if it's non-consensual or if she's just a jilted ex who hates him. I don't know. Right, I know.

But the texting was nothing. It was like, it's pure dom sub-relationship. Yeah. And for people to pretend that they don't understand that. Yeah. How could anyone like that? How could any guy want his dick stepped on? But there is an entire cottage industry of women who are paying their rent because they kick guys in the balls.

an entire cottage industry of women who are paying their rent by the way guys in the ball have you ever in there's a book called everybody lies and they looked up the stats on what women search for and what men search for in terms of rough sex on porn hub and rough sex the searches from women were 24 and the searches for men were six percent so in that case women are significantly more into what the men are. Anyway, it's like, and then people go like, what the pearl clutching of like, what? They're lying. It's just dishonest. I don't believe it.

And that's why I'm not upset by it, but they're lying. Like the whole, like what he wrote, what he wrote is not a fetish of mine. I don't understand it, but reading the language of it, I know exactly the nature of that relationship because I've had that relationship with women where i've been dominant and i've also been more submissive i've had women saying such humiliating things about wanting to fuck other guys in front of me how i wasn't enough how i would have to you know like all of these things that you think wouldn't turn a person on but would turn me on was that she liked it and i was like the fact that she's so dirty and sharing this intimate private filthy

stuff uh but and that's also the thing of like you can't explain that to people who are want to act like it's like all right there's seven dynamics here and they're all very subtle and you can lie and say it's all disgusting sure but like you're being dishonest about sexuality in and of itself, which is what I'm curious about. Do you feel like they're almost like just feelings of like, I don't, that's how I feel right now. I'll do it. But you don't ride for any of it.

You're not like, this is who I am. It's, it's, it's dopamine. It's, it's, uh,

I, I'm on a sugar rush and I really want cookies, but they don't have it. So I'll have carrot cake. It's like, that's how it kind of goes. It kind of, and then one time I'll be fixated on carrot cake,

and I'll go, no, that's not it anymore. Fuck, her feet smell really good. I'll go with that. It's the food and sex are really close as far as addiction because you can't be abstinent. But I've kind of go through also periods. Like if there's something I want to do, I don't cheat on my wife. And anyone would say that, but I mean I –

If you use sex workers, would that be cheating? Oh yeah, anything like that would be cheating, anything. I understand that also the addiction is a lie. Like me wanting different things is just me being greedy. I was so attracted to Nikki. And the fact that we are married, I'm like, I will never be more attracted to a person than I have been to my wife.

So if I'm craving something else, it's because it's addiction. It's pure gluttony. It's like, it's a lie. I'm going to go there. I'm going to cheat. I'm going to feel terrible and go, oh, why did I do that? It wasn't what I wanted. Is there a, so because we're on under the headline of sex addiction, is there a healthy way to be at any point when you were single and sex workers and whatever i don't what i don't know what you were up to exactly but was it ever could it be healthy is there a healthy way to want to have sex once a day in a potentially different way you know i think it is if both people are cool with it like yeah um sex workers you would assume that they're cool with it, right?

Or do you have a different opinion? I've always had good experiences with sex workers, but I fall in love quickly. Like, I've always really liked them, and, like, I find them fascinating and love talking to them and spending time with them. But I couldn't – in the marriage, I couldn't out and do that um because then i won't come back like i i know i haven't cheated like if i watch porn sometimes i want to jerk off i'll look at twitter there's a million videos but i haven't gone into that where i always went which was to cheat because i can't come back from that yeah so i always know that no matter how fucked up i think i have not done that with my wife. With everyone else, I did it.

I've cheated. Even if you're not cheating, let's say you're single. Yeah. You're not committed to anyone emotionally. Do you think that there's a healthy way to do, or to just a different sex worker every night, and even like the fascination part where you're connecting with them like i don't you could convince me that that's as healthy as anything if you're doing it every chances are any if i'm doing anything every day that i really don't need to do chances are it's feeding some

sort of addiction so i guess by default it can't be healthy right i guess it okay let's say you your body you have the kind of body that likes to have one orgasm a day, give or take. What if you did it with a sex worker? Yeah, I mean, as long as you know, like, I would always find the same person and see them over and over and over. New people, sure. But, you know, I always like seeing the same person over and over. But I guess that could be healthy as long as there's two people doing what they want to do. Like, with sex work, the thing that's scary is how do I know? And I never thought of this growing up. I didn't know it. And then as you get older, you go, how do I know she wants

to do this? How do I know she's cool with this? And then it starts to really bother you. So you just see people whose story, you know, um, and I know people go, you never know people's story. Yeah, you do. Sometimes if you know someone for five six years you have a pretty good understanding of their situation in their life um so as time went on it narrowed down to a very very smaller group of people who i knew um and it just became easier that way we knew each other i was comfortable with them i knew they were comfortable with me um but a different sex worker every day i don't think i've ever done that i've done it in addictive well i've done three in a day when i was in a manic state but uh what are you what's the point of that meaning when you say you're literally you had a you were having a

manic episode and it was just you you wanted it it's fighting the urge it's tremendous depression or self-hatred and you're just trying to keep the high going it's addiction and it's like you know i remember when nikki and i broke up at one point i was actually here in la and i saw three three uh and they were all uh sex workers i had known for years but i saw one and then me and her was fighting the phone i ran over to someone else's apartment i came back and i did it it was just anything to keep me from crashing and then just being alone like a lot of it is you just don't want to be alone you just don't want to come down and say like, this is my life. It's the thing about sexual energy. It's all fantasy. Yeah. The feeling is not normal. You're literally giving yourself

more dopamine. So it is a bit of like a dream state. Yeah. So why it's like alcohol or alcohol or what any addiction, it's just, you kind of know what you're going to get and it's like alcohol or alcohol or what any addiction it's just you kind of know what you're gonna get and it's predictable yeah and i was bent i mean it was real like i had zero regard for myself like people know that like sexual behavior is selfish or hey you're just thinking to yourself i'm not even thinking about myself i don't give a fuck about myself like i'm not protecting myself i put myself right there's like the self is not anywhere near. Yes, I hate my, I'm trying to avoid myself. I'm not doing this because I think I'm terrific. Yeah, and you're not getting much from it.

You're not getting like status. You're not getting like, see this, see how sexy I am? Yeah. Paying people. It is crazy. I mean, but again, a lot of- But that thing you said about doing things for the right reason,

because I've tried to write jokes about it and i never they're never good enough but if like let's say strippers are all they go they're all molested they're all so they're all there for the wrong reason i don't know many comics that are there for the right reason right what's the tell me the difference yeah and if you if I always look at it like, you can't say, hey, people should have their own agency if people want to throw those words around. And yet when someone makes decisions they don't like, they're like, oh, they're being victimized.

Yeah. I don't know the difference sometimes. And I would like to know the difference because that really fucked with me after a while. I'm like, I can't do this if I don't know the difference because I just don't want to contribute to somebody else's demise. Yeah, exactly like go to strip club it's it's like uh supporting sex trafficking on the one hand and then on the other hand it's like i don't know

we all gotta work that's just the best way they could find to make money and or and you or take the sexual attention part we're getting perverse attention on perverse attention. It's not maternal or it's not from our family and it's not from our spouse or partner. So is that bad attention? Yeah, I never know. Like strip clubs, I actually never really liked, but just because it was so, you know,

you just, I knew where it was going to go nowhere like even in my delusion i knew that was i mean there's too many beautiful women there's too many guys with money like i don't stand a chance here if i was if i was you know if you're david roth fine but um i never liked strip clubs for that reason uh but i've dated a few strippers and uh you know i mean they were like no different than anybody else they were making money they're making a lot of money um and the women i've known were fine doing it um yeah well that's the thing but that's what you're saying like critics would say like no one's fine doing it that's also that that's critics and some critics would be there are people that don't

want to do it you're right but to say that no one's enjoying it or no one wants to do sex work is basically saying that if they make a moral decision that I find objectionable, then it can't be legitimate. It couldn't possibly. Yeah. And how bad did the sex addiction, was there a bottom of the sex addiction or was there? You know, when you're using sex, like you're using any other drug, when you're using it, and it's not just with other people. I mean, most of my stuff was with pornography and these hours of edging and jerking off and numbing yourself i mean you're doing it for the wrong reason the bottom is basically that you're just languishing in this place where there's no connection with people uh there's no it's always

like i realize it's funny there's an example like what sex addiction is this dr drew had a show he did all the alcohol shows but you're talking about about sex addiction. And there was a drummer, and I don't remember what band he was from, but he said that he was in this rehab for sex. And he goes, you know, the last time I spoke to my mother, I rushed her off the phone so I could masturbate, and she died. And that was the last conversation he ever had with his mother. But he didn't know, but he just wanted to get back to jerking off. And I thought that's what sex addiction is.

That's what it is. It's not always the things you read about or that you hear about on the news or guys getting busted with prostitutes or all of these. It's the way that you shortchange people in your life, the moments you lose with people that you never realize, like the hours and the years you waste with people who don't care about you, who you don't care about uh the risk you put your partner at you know this it is weird that that to me summed up what addiction is though it's like you you rush your mother off the phone so you can get back to jerking off your priority is the last time getting to that weird yeah state yeah instead of just like a good having a nice conversation with your mother and i've thought i've never stopped thinking about that weird little moment uh and i've gone to meetings for sex addiction um which helped tremendously i mean i still have a sponsor um and he always says go make memories with your wife go

make memories with nikki like and i think about that a lot like i love looking back at our old photos and videos and i'm like yeah this is what i'm doing i'm making memories with my wife this is better than anything sexual I'm going to do but I still fall into the porn sometimes do you have a like a limit like do you have a rules do you have rules for yourself? no because again I know I'm just going to I'm looking at different

things and then one will hit me it's like just you know what I mean that little search you do on porn all of a sudden you find the one and you lock in it's in the atmosphere it's in the air it's like a joke you're searching and you're reaching for it without looking and then there it is and you have it and that's the wording that's how it is with porn you you i'm looking through this one and that one and that way i look at a lot of escort websites uh in england of girls i'm never gonna see um funny i mean it's so funny that like somehow you were like let's check england i do yeah and

there's some great uh great uh trans sex workers in england but i i just look and i'm never going to go and do it also is kind of safer because i know they're not people i can access i can just look at the pictures and the things they write and you're relying on your cheapness to kick and be like well i'm not flying exactly how many miles do i have on american um so you were never strictly straight you never strictly like vaginas you never strictly like men or dicks or no assholes or whatever like so and then how do you are you surprised that you're married to nikki no it's perfect like i i she's exactly the person I wanted to be married to. I've never lived with anyone until her. During the pandemic, I raced up to Montreal because she couldn't get in the country from Norway. It was a long five-year process because she had a minor pot charge.

So I put her up in Canada and I would drive up every Thursday, spend the weekend, drive home Sunday morning. And I went up there March of 2020 because I knew the border was going to close. And I went up there March of 2020 because I knew the border was going to close. And I stayed until July 1st of 2021. I was in Canada for the entire pandemic, 15 months. From never having lived with someone to just all of a sudden now we're in this small apartment in Montreal with an 8 o'clock curfew. But it worked. I mean, it worked. Like, I knew that, okay, I do want to marry her.

We were already engaged by that point. And yeah, she's the right person for me to marry. And is the sex part odd? No, it's great. I guess you just are used to penises. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's what I want. Look, there's always going to be things that you want in any relationship you're in.

Maybe for me, it's the polar opposite of what i have but for everyone you know they you date someone with big tits you want somebody who's flat-chested and has a yoga body or if you're dating a woman with a big ass i wouldn't mind like a tiny everyone has these things that they look to and but what do you think she doesn't i mean you know my wife's fucking dream guy is probably not a 55 year old in my shape you know i mean this is not anybody's goal but uh she wound up here and uh i'm happy with it man did you and and it's somebody said you shouldn't try to find like the best person objectively you should find the best person for you yeah like i don't care what the market tells me this is for me this is fucking a big deal yeah she turns me on and she makes me

laugh um i love i love her brain um and i remember we had broken up at the end in 2018 but i remember we were i was like i would love to because i enjoyed talking to her i liked how she looked at these uh trans stuff and the way she discussed it and i'm like i would love to podcast or do something with her. And this has gone back like almost six years now. Yeah. So we just started doing a channel where we're just kind of showing snippets of our lives,

um, with no real goal. Like, cause everybody has an idea of what this relationship should look like or what it is. And it's just pretty much like any other relationship. Uh, and that's kind of the point of this whole thing. It's not this magical thing.

Would you have, this is a weird question, would you have been friends with her when she was a guy? You know, I didn't know. She started transitioning when she was 14. So I can't see her like that. Like I've seen her baby pictures and there's people in her family will still call her him. Like, you know, and they're like, and then he, I don't even know if they're being disrespectful or if it's just such a habit.

But I don't know. Like if she detransitioned now, I would have a, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to be in that relationship, even though I love her very much. I just don't know how that would affect me. But no, I don't know. I can't picture her like that. I can't see it. Like when I see old photos, I can't connect that to the person I'm with. Even though I know it's them.

Can you not understand, but like there's so much fear around trans people. There's so much. It's so mysterious kind of. And people are afraid of it. Is part of what you guys, the YouTube thing, trying to make it just more like it's fucking real regular yes and a lot of people are afraid of it but they're more afraid of being penalized for discussing it wrong they're afraid of saying it wrong yeah they're afraid of saying the i didn't say cisgender i'll never say cisgender it's a made-up thing yeah um so it's the same length as trans transgender cisgender and

it's like you're losing people by doing that. People who are otherwise reasonable. Yes, would are inclined to agree with you. And then they go, well, come talk to us about it. Just so you know, if you say one wrong word, you're a bigot forever. Yeah. Boy, this is a horrible way to approach any discussion. It is.

And it's not effective. And it's also bullshit. It's the least persuasive movement I can think of yeah because it because it's built on look a lot of trans women have been beaten and killed like this this is such fucking horrible shit that it's a really hard life like i um so i understand wanting to be treated with respect and wanting the same rights yep um but when it comes down to if you think some trucker in ohio is going to call himself a cisgender male all he's going to do is resent you for expecting yes you to to tell him to how identify himself right and it's brand new it's brand new couldn't do metric yeah we couldn't

do metric how the fuck do you think it's like i have sisters who i still call by their maiden name yeah i don't know like i and i don't think it makes we just like what we like and the synapses are what they are like so yeah the fact that they i'm glad you're doing that because it yeah of course i i literally respect everybody who yeah but i don't this thing of like dictating the terms it's just like dude this is a bad policy. It doesn't, and it does, it just doesn't work. Yeah. And, you know, like you're not going to convince, I mean, I love trans people, but I'm telling you, no, I'm not saying that.

I'm not fucking calling myself cisgender. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. I'm not afraid of saying it wrong. I don't care if I say something. And maybe other groups do this as well. I don't think it's just trans people but it's where here's the ideology and if you disagree with one point in the handbook you're an enemy you're not you're not an ally you're an enemy you're immoral you're a bigot you're being scolded yes that's another part uh where where that where a lot of groups have gone wrong. Stop fucking scolding everybody.

People are sick. It's boring to be scolded. It's not effective. You're not breaking me by scolding me. I'm not going to cower and go, you're right. I'm sorry. And a lot of people aren't. And the pushback against it, I thought the Bud Light pushback was silly.

To care who's on a beer can is silly. It was fake. I don't care who's on a beer can is so it was fake um i don't care who's on a beverage that i enjoy right um you know i'm happy for shane that he got it good for shane for shane but the idea of people getting mad but even you say hey i don't like dylan mulvaney because they recast it with shane yeah yeah and shane is probably a better guy to do it he's more like bud light's brand right he. Yes, they never should have not had Shane. But the fact that people got so mad saying they're force-feeding us ideology,

it's like, no, they're also just advertising to a new group of people. Like, if people's self-worth, if people's self-image is wrapped around the beverage they drink, then you're an empty, nothing motherfucker of a person. I'd love Diet Coke. I, honest to to god don't give

a fuck who's associated with diet coke clinton good for bill clinton god bless i wouldn't care epstein it doesn't matter to me who drinks diet coke and these pictures on the can i have zero attachment to it the diet coke's job is to do one thing make the beverage i like yeah and if they don't but he has a joke about budweiser it's like bud light got greedy they just they sacrificed their core demo to make point zero zero zero one percent more money they were in a board meeting like okay okay how do we how do we how to make more money how do we sell more bud light women don't drink bud light but uh trans women used to be dudes so maybe we can get them to drink bud light that's that's an untapped demo how much of a market do you need right it's just greed it's just greed blowing up in their face

yeah I mean but I don't mind them I don't mind them reaching out to no I don't either but it's like I don't know some you have to get every single market or yeah how many people do you need to drink your product yeah this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. No surprise there. Hey, Chief, what's the first thing you do in your day if you had an extra hour? A lot of us spend our lives wishing we had more time. The question is time for what? It's actually an old bit of a famous comedian who I won't mention in this.

The best way to squeeze this special thing into your schedule is to know what's important to you and make it priority. Therapy can help you find out what matters to you so you can do more of it. Again, I won't stop talking about therapy. I'm always talking about therapy. It's a cornerstone of my life. My girlfriend is a therapist. It'll teach you skills on how to live. It's not like optimizing and rising and grinding. It's just like, how do you deal with your emotions? How do you set boundaries? How do you communicate with people? Which ones are your emotions should you pay attention to? You don't have to have like a major trauma. It can just be like a better upkeep. It's just a little like

pit stop, get your tires rotated emotionally it's hard to find a therapist so if you're thinking about starting therapy give better help a try find your social sweet spot with better help visit betterhelp.com slash any al today to get 10% off your first month that's b-e-t-t-e-r-h-e-l-p betterhelp.com slash N-E-A-L. I talk about therapy all the time. Most of my guests talk about therapy. Just again, bite the, don't, I'm not going to say bite the bullet, just bite the bite. Just, just do it. Just quit, quit procrastinating and do it. It will help you. I promise it'll help you. Look at me. Woo therapy. All right. So you have compulsion on here. Uh, yes. I mean, but again, therapy. All right, so you have compulsion on here. Yes.

I mean, but again, that kind of goes, the compulsion. What is that? What's the difference? Is compulsion a non-sexual behavior? Sure. It can be sexual. My new obsession is I'm having a midlife crisis where I said, I want to get the, KISS did this. I was a KISS fan my whole life.

I said, I wanted to get the Chopper poster. They did this. I was a kiss fan my whole life. I said, I wanted to get the chopper poster. They did four motorcycle posters that I loved when I was a kid. I said, I want to get them in mint condition. And it sent me on a fucking road. Now I'm just, I've been obsessively buying old kiss posters, the Japanese versions, mint condition, factory sealed. It's fucking, my wife hates it. She hates kiss. She hates seeing the house, but it has become, it's fucking, my wife hates it. She hates Kiss.

She hates seeing it in the house. But it has become, it's like- Do you hang them? I frame them in museum glass. Like I'm a fucking idiot. I'll find like a Japanese rice poster, rice paper poster, and I have it framed in museum glass.

I mean, it's become an obsession and the compulsion is I just can't stop. It's hoarding. It's controlled and respectable hoarding because it's not dirty and it's not okay so would it be safe to say that your experience as a human being has felt wild and that you didn't know what was happening from moment to moment and now you do things like this to like slow it down and collect and obsess and narrow your focus. Is a wide focus too big? It's, you know, it's one of those things where I've always fixated on little things.

You know, now it's this. At one point it would have been Ozzy or Sabbath or pictures with people. This is the thing I've fixated on. And I keep breaking out of it, like temporarily going away from it. I had to buy giant portfolios to put these things in. You used to take pictures with celebrities? For years, yeah.

But I actually, after a while, I started getting jokes out of it. And I'm like, I'll do it. And whatever happens, happens. And I got a lot of actually really good bits out of it. So I was like, there was always something to it. But now if I interview somebody, I will will but I don't really give a fuck anymore it just became a thing like a collectible thing that I was doing but yeah the kiss poster obsession

is my newest fixation but the compulsion I can't stop once I start something and that goes into any type of addiction it's just you know you just it's greed it's fucking greedy it's gluttony it's like all the it's so you think it's greed that's underneath it you think that's what it is yeah gluttony greed i mean it's grabbing i heard a guy in a meeting describe it for us grabbing for more than my share of everything um he was it was a 12-step meeting for alcohol and he was talking about i might i grabbed for more than my share always my share of pleasure my share of alcohol my share of sex i'm always grabbing for more that's interesting because that feels obviously alcoholics have a reputation for being selfish sure which legitimately but i almost feel like

it's it's i would think they're selfish because they're robbing everyone else of a of a good relationship sure or a good connection but the selfish part is interesting i'll add it to my arsenal of things i don't like about alcoholics yeah but we're frustrating people obviously it's it's uh because again there's unpredictability uh which no one likes well but it's but it's but that's the part is that the thing that makes me sympathetic to alcoholics is like, they have a feeling they're trying to get rid of it. So they're dulling it.

Right. Yeah. But if the feeling, but this almost feels like a net, like very aggressively hostile. Like I want everything. I don't want you to have anything. Yeah.

Or it's just that the bottom line is the hole you're trying to fill, you don't realize has a hole in the – like the cup you're trying to fill has a hole in the bottom. So you're always throwing stuff into it. And the worst crime of it is not that there's a hole in the bottom which makes it unfillable. It's the fact that the hole is small, so you think you're going to fill it. Like it's just – you don't ever look at it and go, I empty and i need to do 10 000 things it's always like the one more

the fucking one with that one more high that one more fucking jerk like the one more she sits on my face and i smell her ass and it's this then i'm done you keep looking at like the rim of the cup as if it's almost full but then it goes down a little and then you have to keep going and then it goes down and you can't accept that it's not you can't accept a three-quarter full no it's that's what that's where that greed comes from too but that's the part they always talk about like the hole that you're trying to fill but i realized that the hole it it gives you the illusion that you can fill it by by always hovering below the surface and that's what drives you crazy because it's like a lot of times it's that one poster.

I just got to get one. There's a Japanese poster by a company called Victor. And then that's, well, shut it down. I'll have it. But I've gone through that already with another poster and I got it. And then all of a sudden the obsession started again. Just this one.

Like I don't look at 500 posters. I got to get 500 posters. It's fucking fascinating because I've never heard anyone describe it like that. Yeah, but that to me is the curse of it. Because long, long ago, you learn that early in recovery is that they call it a God hole. You can call it whatever you want to call it. We're filling it and there's a hole in the bottom so you can never fill it.

But it's that itch of it always being close to being there. And then you're looking for that moment, like done. I'm done. I've done it. I can put it on the shelf and it's a completed work. So did, is part of it just accepting that it's unfillable and that's a futile, any effort to fill it is futile. Don start i guess so but it's easier said than done because i know it and again i heard a speaker say one time knowledge is no defense against the first drink and i always remember that was 1989 he said that this guy ted in a fucking convention in new jersey knowledge is no defense like knowing it helps you not do it but i have to i have to not

do it like just knowing that i'm compulsive isn't enough. I have to stop doing it. Well, there's so many things that are like that, which is I was just in Vegas, and it's like people can't resist it. They know that this whole place is built on people thinking they could win and losing. Yep. And they cannot resist it. And to even open it up like i won't do gambling ads on here because it's like this is not good yeah it's not people can't resist

it and then people go well and they drink responsibly or and some people can but a lot of people can't yeah do we need to build the world for the people that can't i don't know but i think some things are so insidious that you kind of have to uh make allowances for those people you do it's kind of cruel not to and we're i don't know i'm of two minds like it's cruel or you know it's life's cruel adults have to make adult choices like uh and, I'm a person who makes a lot of poor choices. I have historically. But it's always been on me. Always.

I mean, I understand cigarette ads targeting kids is one thing. But I don't gamble because I went to Vegas one time and I put a dollar on like one of those stupid wheels. Like, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck. And it landed on a dollar. So I won. Or no, it landed on 20. And I won 20 bucks. bucks and my first thought was i should have fucking put down 20 i would have won 400 the first thing i thought and i realized that's what this is yeah that's how it happens it's never enough and uh when you lose you just keep you have to get even the cup is almost full let me just get this money

back and i'll be done. It's a completed work. What's the saying? One's too many and two's not enough. A thousand's not enough. Yeah. The one I heard was this guy, Wayne, who my sponsor used to pick me. I like how you remember everyone's name. I remember weird things.

But this guy, Wayne, he was a weird guy with smoke. He was very mentally ill. I didn't know at the time. I was 18. But he's the first guy I heard say that. He goes, one's too many and a thousand's not enough and i'm like yep that makes perfect sense and that's the cup thing right yeah basically like avoid the first one and so you know that you cannot fill up the and it's just an unease you're trying to get like this fucking poster this is going to solve it

the way that it gets filled up or it actually does work is like if you're if you're whatever your version of sober is for a person if it's gambling if it's sex if it's drugs whatever it is if you're doing something and trying to live a more spiritual life and by spiritual again just being good to other people being faithful to your wife being helpful like it really does take that buzz away. Like, you know, I don't have the mania of, of addictive thinking when I'm having a good time with my wife and we're having sex. I'm not always thinking like, but when I start feeding into that, like when that's when I'm in, I'm in trouble and then I don't want to be with her.

I want to just look at porn and jerk off because I want to isolate. I miss that once in a while. I miss the addiction. Like I miss, of course i miss seeing people i haven't in years it's been years since i've seen anybody outside of my fucking but weirdly that is connection with her you mean or with them oh yeah if you're saying you miss them sure oh yeah yeah i'll always have that but and some of them but the weird thing is you so it's like sex is keeping you from connection and that's a connection weirdly but that's not that is keeping you from connection and that's a connection, weirdly. But that's not a healthy connection or that's not a connection that lasts.

That's a connection based on a transaction. I give them money and they have sex with me or they talk dirty to me or whatever they do. It's not based on a connection of two people who go, I want to be connected to you and I want you to be connected to me and I want us to stay that way. There's been so many people I've seen over the years who I wanted to date. I loved them. I thought they were amazing. I never judged anybody for doing that.

I couldn't be with someone who was actively doing it because I'd get too jealous, but I loved them. I mean, there's one woman I'm thinking of right now who I'm still friendly with, but I would have married her at one point. Years ago, I've known her for 10 years. I love them. I mean, there's one woman I'm thinking of right now who I'm still friendly with but I would have married her at one point. Years ago. I've known her for 10 years.

I would have married her at one point. If she had just stopped doing that and liked me like that, I would have married her. Loved her. Did you ever talk to her about it? No,

but I could tell I would walk with her. I would always try to hang out and chat after and I knew she was just about leaving. It's so funny. You're like the fan after the show. I am the worst.

Where do you get your ideas from? What are you up to?'m we're gonna get a drink if you want to come yeah exactly i exactly like that like hey if you want to just hang out and talk you can smoke in my fucking you know my place if you want um hoarding i feel like we covered yes negative confirmation bias obviously a very human problem why is it on here? It's like something you know, because that's a hard thing to know. Yeah, I know it because I remember I was like, the confirmation would be I'm garbage. Like I'm truly worthless. Like not in a way that I think makes me interesting on stage

or not in a way that I think is pseudo introspective or, but in a real way, it's like, I feel like you're of zero value. And I remember like an example of that is I got, when I was doing a mouthful of shame, I had, um, luckily I'd met De Niro through odd channels and gotten to know him a little

bit. And he had shot the opening of my special for me. Like I always dreamt of doing that and he did it. And I remember with tickets weren't selling in the first venue that I was going to shoot the special at and he did it. And I remember tickets weren't selling in the first venue that I was going to shoot the special at and then show this. And I remember thinking, I really want to jump off the balcony. Him being in it was great, but all of a sudden that got washed away and it was, you're not selling tickets because you're worthless and just jump off the balcony. And I remember the obsession with jumping off my balcony. I didn't do it,

of course, but I remember talking to my manager and I was just spiraling. I was coming unraveled at how absolutely worthless I was. And these things happen throughout my career. Like whenever something doesn't go the way I want, it's because I suck. Not I wasn't right for the job or I had a bad set because I'm fucking garbage.

And it just confirms what I already knew. And so much of my unhealthy thinking comes from that. Like from being a fucking, like I put weight on so I'm a fat pig and I can't have pictures taken. Like it's always this horrible negative place and anything that doesn't go right confirms that. And so it's almost like you're always standing on the edge of a funnel ready to slide into it. Like the first negative thing just kind of pushes you into the funnel and then yeah see i knew it i'm fucking shit and i always think of self-harm or or i don't think of hurting other people but i always think of fucking just just

put a hose in the exhaust pipe you work yeah that's the uh i've used this in arguments or like where people say like you're so sensitive and i've used it to my advantage with with especially with girls where if they're like everything so and i'm like because i'm so i'm running such a small margin in terms of self-esteem yeah which is people should be able to criticize you yeah within a relationship but it is it really is kind of like that where it is such a small difference between feeling fine and feeling like pure garbage could be a look uh somebody said something just anything and you and have you i'm sure you play the game of why aren't you tougher to myself yeah yes um and and part of the answer is i i very wide uh narrow margin like a

very very self-esteem is very tentative yeah so i can't have anything fuck up that ecosystem but there's also uh and again it's one i i always say where i got this from so i don't sound like i'm trying to be smart it's always like one of the 12 steps tell me the guy's name what's that tell me the guy's i wish it was wayne but he's dead no i don't remember this one but it was someone of the 12 steps and it said that we get a misshapen pleasure out of pain. And that's the thing. I get a misshapen pleasure out of feeling bad, out of feeling hurt, out of feeling wounded.

Like I like it. So there's the part of me also that has purposefully or subconsciously done it so I can get that shit feeling. Whether it's something your brain releases, whether it's that chemical feeling you get in your chest but there is like a losing poker hand yeah that that if you're an addict it's a physical feeling that i get when i'm wounded or i'm hurt and i used to like i remember one woman i dated i would uh i would lay in bed with her and i was asking her

like i wanted her to tell me that she enjoyed fucking her ex more than me and she was like what like I and I'm like no but I know and I would just kind of guide and manipulate the conversation into figuring out if he had a bigger dick and if she liked it so she would say one thing that indicated she was okay with it and I got what I wanted that was like the bullet she gave me I could now hurt myself yeah so I was just I was depressed and it really hurt the relationship yeah because i was seeking out to be hurt so a lot of times it's not just my self-esteem is fragile it's also that i'm a fucking i'm sick and i like feeling pain so because i like the healing that comes from it oh okay so it's do you like the pain at all or you just like the i mean but the whole it's the

whole thing it's like the whole ritual of it you like it all yeah yeah it's a whole thing it was like it's it's like when you're going to cop like guys are going to cop drugs it's the it's the going to get it right it's it's you know it's it's it's fucking cooking it's it's everything it's self-harm it's cutting it's self-harm it's yeah yeah yeah you cut me but conversationally and yeah it's i i i've had that problem in my life and i think i've gotten through it yeah where where i don't need to do it as much like i used to get very jealous of girlfriends yeah and now i just don't care i don't even like i'm not even curious about exes i'm just like i don't know was Was it great? Yeah. Good.

I'm glad you had a good life experience. It's like Stanhope's bit about being in love and being married is the best feeling a human being can have. And when you meet your spouse, you're basically saying you can never have that feeling again. Yeah. Like you're denying, but I don't, but but that i am i am have some generosity around like did you have pleasure great did it as long as the relationship's over i really don't it doesn't affect me at all but i have done that sort of form of cutting yeah that form of feeling of using like ah i know how i can use you to fucking beat myself over the head you know it's a really weird thing to do uh but yeah now with my wife i mean i know about her ex and at one point i was jealous but like i don't give

a fuck at all like i i really yeah he's like i don't that's just a vague i don't even know and and also have you found i had a thing a couple nights ago where i was somebody was extremely rude to me and uh like unnecessarily whatever and i was so i was enjoying the righteousness to the point where i told the guy i was like he's like i've apologized several times like and i was like oh i know i'm overdoing it yeah i can't help it i'm sorry i'm gonna stop but the i really want to keep so you say to an ex this is a two apology infraction yeah like you can apologize i'm gonna need another one like three days yeah but that and i said to my girlfriend i was like i think righteousness is my whiskey right it just

is like just i enjoy the sort of you know and whether it's righteousness or victimization it is like it is fucking potent yeah sometimes again not wanting the high to end sometimes when somebody is like hey i'm sorry about that oh it's over so the negative confirmation bias i've you know my experience is that we're if you go to like you know cave times or like living on the savannah we're built to scan for threats yep so now that everything is pretty much settled we're just looking for threat our body our body likes doing shit it's done before it's just like let's go to that restaurant like it just likes the same five things so it's like let's do you want to do some righteousness yeah real quick like it just likes the same five things so it's like let's do

you want to do some righteousness yeah real quick and it even like the other night the guy that was like i didn't ask for that but but that thing of asking your girlfriend like would you yeah say things that are gonna which sounds also sexual in a different it can be at times too that it can be i've used cuckolding because they used to be so painfully agonizingly jealous that i finally went oh wow i can jerk off to this and i turned it into a fucking high and i turned it into a fetish turning it and turning like realizing like you know we could make these cow hides into jackets yeah yeah yeah i took i took a negative and i made it to quite a positive and i i uh would enjoy talking about that but not like

thrifty yeah anyone who could talk could who could cuck talk me because that can go anywhere that can go on for hours i found an old chat i had with one of my exes uh years ago was on my computer for some reason and it was a long one where she was just doing all that cuck talk and i remember i used to feel high talking to her i would literally feel stoned i would be so turned on you are that's all of sex is it's a netherworld it's like you don't inhale something but once you're engaged if it's texting or pics or even flirting at a bar, it's like we're in this current. Yeah. And it's way better than reality. It sure is.

Yeah, this little place we're in is a lot better than what's going to be there when we're finished. Yeah, and they call it like romance or whatever, but it's like, no, it's intoxication. Yeah, it feels good. Greed. You know, greed kind of goes in, I guess, with what we talked about too too it's kind of the theme for all of it i think for me greed and also uh i agreed and and uh gluttony i kind of put as as the same thing you know i mean just never enough any deprivation inversion what's that mean meaning do you i being catholic or growing up catholic and irish i think irish have like a strain of it also which is like no i like uh fasting oh do i get like anything out

of like i get a perverse superiority from fasting like no i'm i'm very disciplined and i can i'm how long do you need me to fast for yeah two days fine it's nothing to me yeah no um have i got no usually the results of that like if i'm doing well and i lose weight and i look better the results of that i'll be glad i did it but no i don't necessarily have that where i feel like so i well i have greed obviously and i'm gluttony but and and then the inverse which is like depriving yeah um no i rather withhold from somebody else like if i'm hurt or i'm angry i withhold love or i withhold conversation or i withhold interaction um so you know i mean there's a punishing element yeah i well i have

that as well yeah yeah yeah but uh myself i punish through other ways. But the way you're describing it, I have not done it, but I've done it through many other ways. Well, it's also funny where it's like I do enjoy the silent treatment. I'll declare people dead, the whole gamut. But there is something about my girlfriend, who's a healthy person, will be like, maybe we shouldn't talk for a little bit. Whatever, 12 hours.

Yeah. And it's not a threat. It's not manipulative. It's just like feelings are so overwhelming that they become pure reality. Yes. Even the thing the other day where the guy's like shitty and I'm mad for a full 20 36 hours like around the same amount of righteous and piss or whatever and then i wake up today and it's just gone yeah and it's like i was willing to build a cathedral of that feeling yeah and now it's just fucking evaporated it just so there is

something to be said for like yeah let's just not talk sometimes it's like and i'll say i'm actually usually terrible at that but with my wife i'm better at it we'll be in like we're going through this thing and she's crying about something that really is not cry worthy it's you know it's just emotion our emotions are all over the place fucking the hormones and estrogen all that shit and i'm like can we just stop like normally i would take that and amp it up to 100 because i love this i mean you know in your case you could just hide the estrogen i i don't know i don't know which fucking bottle it's in i don't know where i'd put it and believe me the alternative is no no i'll take her crying yeah that's funny yeah i'll take the crying to what happened she doesn't take the estrogen um do and and you and it's like

you're just kind of like let's just stop i can't do it just Just stop talking. I'll shut up. You shut up. Let's just talk later. Does she accept that? Or does that read as thoughtless? Sometimes. Read this on your part. Both. Like there's times where she'll accept it. And there's times where I'm like,

she's on a roll. She's on a fucking roll. And she's not going to stop until she's done. Like today in the car, on the way, we went to the gentle barn today. Cause I like the, the animals were just nice.

And we went and pet the animals and we're driving back and she's on a roll the hell i need to get a new headshot um and she wants me to do stuff in norway and i'm like yeah all right no i don't know yet i don't feel like getting a new headshot till i lose weight and she wouldn't she wouldn't stop she wouldn't stop and i'm like all right you're just you're just on a fucking roll of yapping at me for some reason but i know i wasn't mad about it um i'm like yeah keep talking i'm not i'm not involved in this this is you i'm not going to get the new picture i've heard you you've been heard and it's a no i'm not doing it yeah so when i want to get new pictures i'll get new pictures yeah it's like if you have to explain like no i i have my sense of reality yeah priorities

and my priority is yours is a headshot mine mine's not headshot no i don't want to i'm a fat pig and i know what i look like telling somebody you've been heard like i've heard you i don't like i don't agree with it that's all it is there's nowhere to go from here we don't agree on something yeah um do you try to do you try to can does she or do you back and forth do you try to convince each other shit you know because the adrenaline will kick in when someone says i hear you and i don't agree my first instinct is like it's like i just got punched in the face and like oh well now i have to win this yeah yeah sometimes um but i also think like nicky's very literal um it's just you know norwegians are like that they're kind of to the point and literal like

you know daniel simonson if you ever watched him like she's a very literal person so i know sometimes that the way she debates we miss each other like i know our brains are very different and english is also her second language because even though she speaks it perfectly i forget sometimes that every nuance of english is not the way she was raised speaking so there's certain things i say that might pass her or that she might not understand my meaning or my intent. So a lot of times I understand we're just not going to agree. But I'll tell somebody, look, I just don't agree with you.

Because I find that when I get angriest is when I feel like I'm not being heard. Yeah, I think it's universal. Yeah, people get mad when they're trying to compete. And if you say to somebody, like, I got it heard you but i don't agree i don't see it that way yeah and you're not going to convince me and i'm not going to convince you like it's almost like you can keep arguing if you want but i'm letting you know you're not going to move me yeah it's not i don't think you're stupid i hear you're saying i hear your reasons i don't they're not convincing me that's why i

don't really argue politics with people i'll mention it briefly uh but i'm bored by people's uh indignation it's not like oh that guy's childish it's childish and it's selfish um and it's it's just babyish and i'm not interested like there's nothing someone's gonna say i'll hear someone out briefly but as soon as they start i'm like you lost yeah it's like so you don't understand that someone could could value security right over uh human warmth yeah you can't imagine it and vice versa yeah and yeah it's like no it's they just have a different set of priorities yeah the greed thing are you like materialistic? Not really, no.

I make a decent living, but I've never been like, I'm not dishonest with money. I've given money back to clubs if they've overpaid me. No, it's not a money thing. I mean, I like to live comfortably, but I'm not a maniac about it. No, just again, greed for attention, greed for somebody's love like or their affection or wanting

all of it or uh not wanting to share it and that's why i like you know well we have co-workers who are so greedy for attention and what i always find odd about it is the is like we're all greedy for of course why are you acting like your need supersedes any of ours yeah or why are you acting like what i don't like when some comics do is is when they act like their passion is going to sway me it's like what do you think i don't know what this is i'm the same as you stupid like yeah i'm not fucking impressed by the the fact that you say it like that yeah i'm not some fucking college kid that picked you up for a fucking gig at the airport dummy i know what you're doing yeah and i've

known really funny people so yeah i'm not uh i mean good for you to do it but yeah i'm thinking similarly it's like no i have to do 19 minutes i have to run the light because my need is so great it's like you're you're so delusional. Yeah, just get off. Yes, it's a collective. We all want to run the light. You know who doesn't run the light? Colin doesn't run the light.

I tell, doesn't run the light. So if Colin and Attell are not running the light. Get off. Yeah, exactly. Or watching somebody who feels like they have to kill on a Tuesday. Say, we're not making any real money in these fucking clubs in New York and LA. You're doing it to work on material.

What are you doing? I'm not a fucking, I'm not an actor in your place, stupid asshole. I'm a real person. Like, you know what I mean? Like I'm not here as an extra to your day and your vision of yourself. Did you ever, were you ever like that?

So now that you know that you're greedy like that, do you look back and be like, that was a fucking, I was being a dickhead. Oh, dickhead oh 100 just not with running the light i just don't run the light oh god yeah i mean but saying things like did you do any of that oh you sure just you know we all go through this self-righteous uh you know because you know comics are most times fairly intelligent like you and analytical of stuff and you figure out an angle that you like um but i found myself unhappy when people didn't agree with it um and i'm like oh i'm just trying to convince people of something uh because it makes me feel smarter and more powerful

to convince somebody of something it's bullshit it's like ego feeding you know what i mean yeah um so i've come to the conclusion i'm not going to change anybody's opinion. And with my wife, we don't try. The goal of this is not to get people who hate trans people to like us. I don't care if you hate us. Don't. Don't like us. It's the people who do like trans women but are afraid to talk about it. It's like this is what it is.

Just fucking date who you want to date and stop being so secretive about it. Stop taking this whole group of people and pretending you don't like them because you're afraid people are going to call you a homo that's all it is that's what the the lion's share of transphobia is is is it like subverted or transmuted or whatever repressed sexual attraction or is it just what do you think like percentage wise because to me it's still just like that's different and i it terrifies me i don't like different things it's a combination i think i really don't know what the percent some of it is people who really want to fuck and they see someone like oh fuck you like you know it's like the old bobcat bit about like beating up a gay guy because you're attracted to him uh i mean

this you know and i know a lot of trans women and a lot of uh the guys they've slept with who are public figures who they, and they shouldn't name them if the guys don't want to be named. Some of it is repressed transphobia, like they want to suck dick, but they don't want to act like they want to suck dick. Some of it is just true religious feelings of this person is an abomination. Some of it is indifference that turns into anger and revulsion because of what special interest groups do.

Some of it is, I was kind of like, that's not for me, but, and then all of a sudden you're saying that like, hey, this is the way sports should be and this is the way that should be. And then people push back on that. But then again, I think the conservatives are full of shit too. Acting like you shouldn't acknowledge trans people

or people like, and if you mention something transgender to a child and they're dying to get into bathrooms yeah I mean you know I don't know if this is my thought or somebody else's but like they're worried about a guy becoming a woman to molest your daughter and it's like you know there's lesbians in

the women's bathroom yes I've thought of that with gay men like the Boy Scouts yeah I mean Jesus Christ that was a fuck fest for 80 years. Yeah. And all of a sudden now it's just, but there are like, look, are there trans people? Sure.

But that's not the reason, especially. I got it. I don't think there are, honestly. You'll find some, I think, like that change their gender right before they go to jail. And there have been. Right. That's okay.

That just sounds like something, but like thing about becoming a woman so I can be around little kid. no no i don't think full transitions i mean people that probably aren't really trans but again like then there are certain times where there's legit things that are dismissed by like you know you had like the people looked at i forget what the state was where the the girl said she was assaulted by a boy in a dress sexually in school and the school board wrote it off like i had this dumb hillbilly but it turns out it was right like the school board was covering something up and this guy who seemed like this fucking oh this guy's a maga maniac but he was right it had happened to his daughter so a lot of times people will write off any criticism and it could be valid it's just a matter of being

truthful without without saying the outcome has to be this. You know what I mean? Yeah. Nikki and I are married. We're legally married. I resent anybody that doesn't want us to have the exact same life they have. So anybody that thinks that my wife and I should not be able to behave the way you and your wife should behave, go fuck yourself. That's how we look at it.

I don't know what the answer for the kid stuff is. I don't have kids. I have no feelings like well the as someone who transitions she's 14 that's that's like that seems to be where a lot of like the i think legitimate controversy should not even controversy of just like what are we doing here yeah yeah like which i'm not i don't think it's i don't think it's wrong i don't think it's a fake argument it's like no this is a real thing it's a. I don't think it's a fake argument. It's like, no, this is a real thing. It's a real point. What's the right thing? And by transition, she just started taking Medicaid.

You know what I mean? That's basically it. What's the right age for that? Is 10 too young, maybe? But again, with no kids, and I don't have any feelings about kids whatsoever, whatever they decide, I just don't know what's right. Yeah, I don't either. Which is another thing.

People don't go, I don't know. I just don't know what's right. Yeah, I don't either. Which is another thing. People don't go like, I don't know. I can see both sides. I talk about this on stage. It's the reason I haven't shot a special is I'm still trying to figure out, like, what do I want to say? Like, I talk about our sex, and I like to talk about it because it's jarring to people sometimes. And then they realize I'm not kidding. Like, no, no, this is real. Well, that's what's interesting because thinking about your sexual stuff, if I may interject, like that.

what's interesting because when i think about your sexual stuff if i may interject like that so do you ever look down at nikki and be like this is a i didn't see this coming but i guess you did i did oh yeah what do you mean by the reaction you mean no like your i literally i was thinking of your point of view first person so you're either behind her oh yeah oh no i'm never shocked i mean like it's it's it's she's who i want to be with everything about her is exactly what i want great um so no i never uh i think she just well it's again i'm projecting i'd be surprised oh of course yeah most guys if i look down and that's what i think oh yeah most guys aren't though they pretend they are they pretend they don't know. A big part of it is self-identifying too.

Like trans women have to realize like, yes, you're obviously a huge part of the discussion, but the reason that the men don't come out, many reasons, one is guys are afraid, does it make me gay? And you can't dismiss that. Go, you're totally heterosexual because there's not a rational thinking person alive that thinks a guy has a dick in his face and he's heterosexual. You can't dismiss that. Go, you're totally heterosexual. Because there's not a rational thinking person alive that thinks a guy is a dick in his face and he's heterosexual.

You can tell yourself that. You can identify that way if you want to. It's not my fucking business. But I find it to be ludicrous and laughable. And I think it causes a lot of confusion with people. And I think a lot of people just walk away from you and think this is crazy. But guys just don't know how to identify if they like somebody transgender. They're like, does it make me gay? Does it not not make me gay i think that's a big part of it but i but that said

it's like you fucking cowards just admit the group you like you don't have to say what you do sexually everyone has private stuff sexually but uh don't just deny it and stop getting caught i think it's probably they don't want to have to be the same politically thing it's like you i don't want to have to pick a team because there are a lot of things about that particular team that i just am aggravated by or don't want to be a part of but it's also you're also right about sphere they're not publicly dating any you know there's a lot of people in public life who like trans women we're not dating them publicly or taking them to dinner or taking them to uh shows. And it's like, I'm not the only one who likes trans women. I mean, believe me when I say that, I'm really not.

So the fact that none of them are doing it shows you that there's more there. Did you figure out, so how do you talk about on stage? I mean, I start with talking about her as a person. The things I hate about her as a, you know, anything else in a relationship, being married, just regular shit, banal shit that's true. She's fucking always cold.

All this shit. Other people are annoying. And if they're of a different gender, there might be a little more annoying. Yes. And then I hit them with the fact, I mean, most people now who are coming to see me know already, but the way I get into it, they're like, oh, maybe this is a different person. But then I hit them with it and it gets a really a really finally he's back with regular women but they what but they're like what is he doing because i've seen some people who know our channel and they know her and then what

the fuck is he doing and then uh when i then the joke comes it's like a really weird laugh like oh yes okay this makes sense and then i go on and talk about her dick and the sex and the stuff like that uh that where it's hard where it's not hard the arguments everyone's having yeah you know but i want to get it right like and by right i mean just funny i want to make sure it's funny and i'm not being self-righteous and also and not being like activist and no i refuse i'm trying yeah i absolutely refuse our love is just as rude yeah um's your, so the stuff you've done to feel, to get through these things, therapy, 12-step groups. Yeah. And you've been going since, as I can tell, 1989.

I'm 87 when I started with, I was 18 when I got sober, like from drugs and alcohol. The sex stuff was the first addiction. I mean, that was there since early, early childhood. But that's something, for years I've been because again it's it's a different type of sobriety you can't be abstinent it's like food yeah you want a bender and then you're back you know i watch porn for a month and then i stop um but my benders are nowhere near what they used to be nowhere near like it's a like this is still painful sometimes because i'm wasting, but it's a manageable life compared to what it was. But again, that's why I don't fuck around.

That's why I don't cheat because I'm afraid of cracking that door. I'm afraid. Because then the next time I say, I fucking blew it. I did it. And then you're off to the races. And you've been able to stay sober and drug-free. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No relapses at all.

Like I'm pretty good once I quit something, except with sex is the hardest cigarettes. I quit in 2001. Like once I stopped something, I'm usually pretty good at staying stopped from it. But, um, now that pots everywhere and pots legal,

I don't touch it, but I'm like, I gotta be careful of it because it's tempting. I see everybody, my, you know, uh, people I,

I'm close to smoke pot and I see it and I'm like, fuck, that looks fun. So I have to be vigilant about that because that will lead me back. Yeah. And what's the goal for yourself in terms of like emotionally? I'm happy and I want to stay happy and I want to, I just, I want to get better and better at also having disagreements that I don't win that, that don't win that just kind of evaporate and they're okay. Like some kind of a peace with my wife, which we actually have a great marriage. But I want to continue doing that and keep getting better at that because it's always been my fatal flaw is the fights.

And with her, it's not. Like we have them. Sometimes they're bad. But a lot of times I've learned to shut the fuck up you know what they say restraint of pen and tongue probably the most valuable lesson i've learned being sober restraint of shut the fuck up don't tweet it just think about it before you say it and that has saved me from so many disasters yeah the feelings gonna leave it will pass and you're still gonna want people to like

you yeah after the feelings right now you want people to like you and you're pissed and in a day you're gonna want people to like you and you will not be pissed and you'll be happier that you didn't do anything yes and i was we were very we had a private relationship for five years i didn't talk about our relationship at all because she was trying to get in the country and i and there's nothing worse than again i've said it before but lenny bruce on on stage with the court papers nobody wants to see you on the radio every morning like me complaining about homeland security and waivers all this shit and i was afraid that i would just go down that lane and not be able to stop talking about it and bore people and be angry and say the wrong thing so i'm like if i just shut

the fuck up if i don't crack that door i won't do that and i didn't do it and then you know after she was in the country for a while and we know we want to be married i'm like yeah this is real i'm happy so you want to be happy and the others and that she's the best way to do it and the other stuff drugs alcohol occasional vendors and whatever said horrid posters of course kiss posters yeah um you'll just like is like you'll allow it in smaller doses i mean yeah you do kind of can't it's gonna happen um but considering the volume of acting out i've done the amount of self-indulgence or of self-destructive behavior like this is all so minor it's so minor and and not that i can keep doing it because it will eventually grow again but i feel like i'm in a decent place

right now need there's improvement needed uh but my wife's great too she's not she doesn't give a fuck like she's not she's she doesn't want to be cheating but she's told me like i would probably forgive you and uh i know that but i i still can't do it because it would hurt her do i want to get on a plane and go to england and more than anything in the world fucking dude i fantasize sometimes that we get divorced you got the miles and you're probably i got the miles platinum if not uh the one above that well i have an amex so whatever airline i could use amex points for i would fly for free and then take whatever money i would have wasted on airfare and put it into a bunch of brazilian girls who are dying to see um but i can't do it it would feel good for a while but i've actually

even in my stupid fantasies because she and i i recommend this for anybody who's trying to cheat location tracking on your phone we share location because my fantasies can't go beyond the starting gate like i'll fantasize about i want to go see this person i want to fucking and i know my mind will start taking me then the next thing you know i'm that's interesting that you do it you do the location tracking it's like a digital leash because you don't trust yourself yes and it wants it a while if i'm like i don't think she cheats it like i'm really confident she's being faithful but if I'm like where is she now it just helps to look oh she's on her way home

but for me it's I don't trust like I want to go uptown or I want to go here but I'm like you know what if I'm on the road and Nikki's not with me she might see that I'm in this other hotel it cuts off the fantasy before it can really get going at least that part of it because I'm very literal

when I fantasize. Like, I like to know how I'll get there. What will I do? What will the sex be like? I walk through every fucking, you know, it's like I just really unpack it in my mind. But if I know, like, she'll fucking track you. You can't.

What are you going to do? You're telling me you're going somewhere. You can't go to Denver. You can't go to fucking Seattle. She knows you don't have a gig. I can't see go. I got to fantasy go i gotta turn this i gotta revoke the tracking no because i have to explain it what happened no the fantasies i've had before where i've actually gone through it like in my brain is i just hit the fucking phone uh on airplane mode where i know it won't matter but like i'm literally that literal when i fucking jack off it's really awful uh but i just can't

do it and so i recommend that to people who are having a hard time being faithful like it's helped me a lot well yeah it's it's not you're not like limiting your freedom you're giving yourself a better chance like i have blockers on my phone and the not for porn but just for the internet i can't i don't trust myself yeah and it's uh it's just not worth the trade-off i've done what you i've done most things you can do and it never made me feel whole like it just that's the it's like you really are just trying to feel whole and completed but it doesn't it's a lie it's a fucking myth so like my wife doesn't make me feel whole either um but i'm like i was so into her sexually for so long

and i still am but i mean like before we like when she was so into her sexually for so long. And I still am. But I mean, like, before we were, like, when she was still living in Norway, she did webcam stuff. And I would talk to her on the phone. And I would just jerk off looking at her and talking to her. Like, I mean, you know, privately, not with an audience. And I'm like, if I can think of cheating on her after I'm with her, there's not a person alive that I wouldn't think about cheating on.

There's never that magical person. Yeah, it's not them. It's not a person alive that i wouldn't think about cheating on there's there's never that magical person yeah it's not them it's not that it's like okay i'm gonna stop putting this on them this is it's the unfillable cup yes and it's so so it's i have to realize it's me well maybe the cup is full filled and the fucking lie is that the rim is higher like maybe the cup is already full and i'm just that's what the lie is well that well that's your brain's gonna tell you something yeah oh that rim is high but only a little more yeah but if i can think about cheating on her like i will never be content like you know like and i kind of know that and i'm glad i know that like no you're feeling numb with her right now but it's because you're married and it's because you're greedy and it's because you're sick fucking part of your brain wants to go out

and do something i want to go on a tear well it's also the line between you say you're greedy and a part of but i think uh someone who's new to 12 step or new to therapy we go like you're being hard on yourself and you're like i have to be hard on myself yes i'm not gonna give myself leeway yeah and being greedy is not bad yes but saying like hey man that's a character defect you should ignite it's not self-loathing um no not at all like like there's a part like i mean normal people you're a piece of shit is self-loathing but like no you're greedy is like no it's actually that's accurate clear appraisal it's it's an honest what i say humility is an honest assessment of my my

pros and cons in a way like that's kind of what being humble is and i'm not saying i'm humble but i mean it's an honest assessment it's not and cons in a way. Like that's kind of what being humble is. And I'm not saying I'm humble, but I mean, it's an honest assessment. It's not everything done in red ink. It's not, I'm fantastic and I'm fixed. It's an honest look at what am I good at? What am I bad at? What did I do today that was really selfish? Was I a cunt? Was I, you know? So with, if I'm accurate with that stuff, I'm a lot happier. But I fantasized about my wife fucking divorcing me and me going over there but even in those weird fantasies i think what would i do at night would i do a set would i have dinner like who would i talk to i'd be lonely like there is a reality like kicking down the air the airplane door

and you just fucking let's fucking and just storming out i yeah but it's a temptation i mean there's some of them i just go i look at this one site i just i love it i'm like god because a lot of the brazilian girls can't get into the u.s it's harder but they can get into england and i'm like oh god but then there's again there's a few that i've wanted you know you would help me and the sopranos there's a funny line where uh jennifer melvy is talking to uh tranos there's a funny line where Jennifer Melvie is talking to Tony and there's a girl he wants to fuck and she goes you don't have to eat

every bowl of rigatoni and I just I was like yeah that's what it is you don't have to have everyone yeah again the cup

will never be full there's a million like I look sometimes I'm like oh my god there's a lot of girls on OnlyFans a billion here

and they're all fucking hot or I'm on Twitter and there's so many women I haven't heard of and they're all fucking hot or i'm on twitter and there's so many women i haven't heard of like always that one now that like it's an un-fucking fulfillable pursuit yeah so be happy with well it's fun it sounds like you've come to the conclusion of like you just don't listen to yourself all the time yes just like i'm now i realized that six months ago with negative self-talk where i'm like i'm just lying all the time to myself in a in the negativity bias of like i i'm constantly scanning and taking it as negative and i'm like you're lying yes you're seeing negativity that's not

there and at a certain point you go people go like you you're your best you got to be your own best friend it's like yeah and i don't listen to my best friends i'm like shut the fuck up yes or just like go talk and i don't give a shit yeah or just or know what it is like okay this is a compulsive feeling i know i want to go but you also know that this is a drug urge it's the same thing this is like you want to get high um so when you want to get high you just feel it and let it pass and know what it is or call somebody which i'm not usually that healthy or jerking off is a lot of times a great way to stop it sure um i mean it beats you know get my fucking passport out uh you know that would destroy yeah or googling brazilian uh

visas i know i've i've i trust me i've uh i've i've thought of it but they would have a hard Brazilian visas. I know. Trust me. I've thought of it, but they would have a hard time getting in. There was one girl I used to talk to from another country. Again, another one I wanted to have come. This is years ago, but she didn't have a passport and she might have had a criminal record.

Her English wasn't as good. She never would have gotten through customs. So I would have had to go to a very dangerous place to see her. So I didn't. So I found out Nikki was in Norway. I'm like, yeah, I'm happy. And so you feel like you're happier than you've ever been you're on top of more than you've ever been i truly am yeah like but again there was a lot of hitting and missing

on the way um but i got the person i wanted to be with so much of aging looking talking to you about this is like just getting yourself just like we're like uh broncos and that we cannot ride like our we can't control our behavior we can't and then just slowly you're like if i sit this way and hold it just so i can have some say in my own behavior yeah but it takes so long to figure it out for for a lot of us yeah it does and that is just a part of aging too and some guys don't learn it but then you're like nah you know what i'm good here like there's there's nothing i'm gonna get that's gonna change this for me like i have to change the way i see it i have to change the way i behave yeah i have to not cheat on my fucking wife because i'm never gonna get to the point where i cheat and go oh that's good that's done now i don't have to cheat anymore

just don't start doing it yeah um but i am truly happier than i've ever been like um and it's nice to be happy there's things in my life like hey do i wish my career was different sure and my ex who's my one of my closest friends and i've introduced her to my wife so that's who she talks to and she's mad at me as my ex. I said to her, I just wish I was doing this or that, and she goes, look at the fucking things you talk about.

Look at what you've, your career, and what you made a decision to talk about for 20 years. Should you host the Tonight Show? Exactly. I've been talking about fucking Sulca, trans porn star, since fucking 2003.

Like, I made a decision. i wanted to to to talk about this part of myself i wanted to attack myself or i wanted to make fun of these things or i wanted to talk about them and i've gotten so many messages from people like i'm so glad you made that okay yeah or which is like admirable i know that wasn't the point but it was like like it's a thing i think about it's one of those things that i felt it's just it's cathartic it really is helpful to like i had a girl trying to blackmail me one time because of our dirty fantasies um and she said it through text i was like it's just so crazy that you would say that through text you're committing a felony but i told her like you obviously don't understand who you're

talking to and i really meant it i'm like i don't give a fuck like it would embarrass me sure but i would take the embarrassment and then know that i was going to sue you because you tried to blackmail me and then you could pay for an attorney i'll be embarrassed you pay for it but i was like let's not even i'm like let's just talk tomorrow and she apologized she's like i was having a bad day but i'm like you're not going to shame me into you know what i mean like let's just talk tomorrow and she apologized like i was having a bad day but i'm like you're not gonna shame me into you know what i mean like it's just i've been talking about this you're unshameable i mean you're and you're unshameable and you're full of shame yes i'm i'm i know i can be shamed i would be just as embarrassed as anybody else like anybody would be embarrassed private conversations sure i'm not not immune to that um but I'm not like oh god people aren't going to know I was this guy

who says these dirty things like you think I've told you for 30 years this is how I think so yeah I've done it because it feels good for me to do it like and it's also a way of working through these things and like making fun of it makes it less

painful and it takes away some of the sting of it when you can humiliate it like you know what i mean like that part of your brain when you can just fucking mock it it really is but people who have said hey i'm so glad you talk about the childhood stuff and i'm glad you talk like that's always very satisfying like that really does feel good and so i hope that people see us and just if you like if this is the trans people who you date just be open about it like stop

you don't have to tell us what you do in bed you don't have to tell us if you're top or bottom that's your business that's private but it's like if you like black women and then just never take a black woman out publicly people what the fuck is wrong with you or any other group

so why wouldn't you with this group of people you know I never quite got that Jim Norton everybody what an episode that was fun yeah The news is all I've been hoping for. But I'm your hand. My man. I know that she was 19 years old.