Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Jimmy Carr

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Jimmy Carr (The man we owe The Blocks Podcast to, 'His Dark Material' on Netflix & much more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Executive Producer 4:13 Neal and Jimmy’s Relationship 11:46 Enmeshed 16:17 Relationships 28:47 Learning Disabled 45:35 Eating 50:19 Panic Attacks 55:34 Anxiety Disorder Counter Factuals 1:01:53 Workaholism 1:04:53 How He’s Grown ---------------------------------------------------------- https://nealbrennan.com for tickets Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- Sponsors: Http://Babbel.com/BLOCKS for 55% off your subscription Http://RocketMoney.com/NEAL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

DQ presents picture this picture the Reese's extreme blizzard Reese's peanut butter cups and Reese's pieces in one blizzard treat Wait, are you dreaming? No, and yeah, this Reese's extreme blizzard is real and for a limited time at DQ Happy tastes good. Hi, it's me Neil Brennan. You're watching the blocks back Let's just I blew it I blew it. No, I know but i blew it and i feel in front of one of my heroes ladies and gentlemen i talk about this guy every episode uh he's the patter familia for is that right is that the thing uh he's all this is his he's the exec producer not credited you'll get no money oh i had a bit where I was going to hand you an envelope. And I forgot to do it. Yeah.

One of the best comedians. Another. Fuck. I'm really in my head about this. One of the best comedians doing it. Mansplaining. If you're not aware, it's when a man tries to explain what you already know in a patronizing manner. It's when a man.

That's me. Tries to put clever, clever thoughts into your pretty little brain and a great man easy for you to say well a great man in terms of uh been a friend like literally not only like gave me the idea but been a friend defended me uh and stood on uh with with me in various times and a true uh resource in terms of just comedy and pitching and all that stuff it's jimmy car ladies and gentlemen yes yes it's such a pleasure to be here i've loved the show yeah i've absolutely loved it like there are people that watch the show that always has notes basically every episode when we were talking about the karen top episode for instance i love it it just feels like it's a very interesting kind of space to come on and you know because blocks is such a it's a great special yeah and

it feels like everyone uh in comedy could have written something like that could have been that open yeah about their mental health and their life. And they aren't. And maybe it leaks through a little bit. I think comics leak. You watch an hour special. With me, it's just, I'm a joke to joke comic. And that's an insecurity that we'll get onto later, I feel sure, in this. But the idea, if you go, I never feel like I'm enough. I always feel like I just need jokes. I don't want to waste anyone's time. I'll just get to the next thing. They're not interested in me in me they need to laugh they've come here for a reason i'm providing a service and that's great but the idea with blocks that you kind of you

open up and talk about what's really going on with you and then you make it i mean it's hilarious it's a hilarious special but that thing of like coming on and sharing that it's interesting right i think it's the most interesting i'm worried'm worried that everything's pathologized now and everything is like my trauma and my... Well, I mean, the trauma bit in the new one is phenomenal. Yes, thank you. But now I'm worried, not like I'm on the wrong side of it, but it's so...

It's like, for instance, everyone said, I'm Rick James, bitch, and you kind of feel like, ugh. No, you were just too close to it. I think sometimes when you're too close to it, when you're in the zeitgeist, you can't see it. I could see it, but it just felt like it was being ruined by the wrong people. So I feel like, in a way, trauma is being overly used. I think great. No one has credibility.

Let's overcorrect. Let's overcorrect because no one was talking about it. There is a mental health crisis in the world and you only have to look at young people committing suicide. There's terrible things happening out there. People opening up and talking about what it's like to be a human being seems like a very, very healthy thing to do. Not a huge part of your childhood, not a big part of mine or indeed our adolescence and and kind of you know lives beyond this is all very healthy great and i feel like i was there pretty early so i can stand on sure but i do i have no i have made a point of talking about like post-traumatic growth

as like no you can grow you can grow from these things yeah and there's obviously a lot of upside to feeling like you're not enough one of the smartest things you ever these things yeah and there's obviously a lot of upside to feeling like you're not enough one of the smartest things you ever said to me was there's not one type of therapy what therapists should have to tell you by law in the first session is there are other types of therapy available this isn't it because i don't really see the point in going to freudian analysis for 20 years to find out it was all your mother yeah which you knew but what am i going to do with that yeah well what do i do about it how do i grow talk to me about it was all your mother yeah which you knew but what am i going to do with that yeah well what do i do about it how do i grow talk to me about and i'll charge you yeah

let's get onto blocks i want to talk but i want to talk about a little bit about how jimmy and i when we're in montreal for the comedy festival which is about six days we go on they're pretty romantic walks i would say yeah i would say if you were if you were remaking broke back in the modern age you would go on a very long walk and eat a nice vegan meal and discuss comedy and life. That's all there is, right? Yes. And it's philosophical and they're long walks. We burn the calories.

I put down the vegan sword and we get Dairy Queen. They are long. There's up a hill. There's down. It's the whole thing. In the most beautiful city in the world. I can't understand why more people don't go to Montreal for a holiday, for a vacation. I agree.

Because you go, well, what do you want from a vacation? You want fun. You want to have a laugh. You want maybe a few drinks and nice weather. Well, Montreal's got all of it. And you can see the best comedians in the world. And you can meet them. You can see them.

I mean, they're there hanging around. If you're super into comedy, it's like, it's the place. Because it's an invitational. Like the Edinburgh Festival is phenomenal in Scotland, but some people are having a bad time. Not everyone is winning. And they may not be great at comedy. But everyone is winning in Montreal.

It's invitation only. I mean, it might not be your thing. I would say that thing with comedy, if you watch a successful comedian and they're not doing well, it's because it's not for you. Don't worry. Don't try not to sweat sweat it they're doing something that's not for you you will three of the at least three if not eight of the best comedians in the world will be in montreal every year yeah so have fun it's it's pretty good there's a good holiday tip for people yeah i mean this is a strong podcast yeah uh we're already doing yeoman's work um and uh yeah it's like you you do your

you'll do roast you it's like people doing a bunch of things you i've seen i would think the magic of montreal is you do stuff you would never do anywhere else if someone else said to me oh do you want to go and roast someone at one in the morning yeah after you've already done two shows so you go well no is it is there is there money changing hands no it's gonna be it's free just for fun ah no i'm gonna go home but in montreal yeah of course where's the hang yeah you know everyone's gonna be there or it's gonna be or jeff ross and david teller doing bumping mics or something you go do you want to just hang in the audience yeah of course yeah it's a great time we've also i i consider you like a resource of friendship meaning like you're you're very good counsel oh well that's very nice of you to say yeah yeah uh and i meaning like you're, you're very good counsel.

Oh, well, that's very nice of you to say. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like you feel that about me and you don't want to say it. No, that's, I was, I was waiting, but it's that thing of, yeah, it is. It feels like if I just fire the compliment back at you, it's a, it's I love you too. But it is that, yeah, it is that thing where I do go to you for advice on things because you've got an incredible, um, ability with friendship.

Very few people do it like you in terms of you go, you do, we do very little small talk. Everything seems to go straight into kind of quite emotional depth. And there's a level of honesty that's incredibly unusual. I think it's, you know, it's one of the things that you go, you're, um, we'll come on to talking about this later maybe, but the, your the your um belief in fairness is it cuts through everything it's ruining my life but yes yeah well anything taken to 100 becomes i mean justice taken to 100 it's a recipe for disaster four moves away from stalin it's you know yes no i i've come to that realization recently i'm like this is you are dedicated to your own misery um okay so let's talk more about before we get into this you we're both very aware of how well our lives are going i just don't want people to think that

you're like complaining or i think the i mean my thing is the uh gratitude for me is the mother of all virtues gratitude allows everything else in so it thing is the gratitude for me is the mother of all virtues. Gratitude allows everything else in. So it's not just gratitude for kind of your life in the, oh, well, I'm glad I've got this show tonight with people coming. You go, well, I'm glad to be a comedian. I'm glad to be living in this era. I mean, I do think it's the golden age of comedy.

And as we're walking in, we're talking about like the Beatles, like being the first band. They got to do everything first. I feel like we're at that stage of standup comedy. It's a very new medium. It feels like it's an American medium. Maybe you could stretch American Jewish medium, really the language of it. And the idea that it's just coming up now and you have these incredible voices, Carlin and Pryor, Rock and Chappelle and Louis CK and Bill Burren, these kinds of voices coming through that you go, well, this is going to be's it feels like it's such a privilege to be in this world now well it also is a new it's like the beatles were the first rock band but music's been present

for i don't know like written music i mean written music let's say 1500 1400 1500 whatever i don't even know when it is but uh comedy is it's a new genre i don't think it's a genre of something no it's a whole like rock was a genre of music i wouldn't say spoken comedy that's it's from 1940 1950 yeah it's it's there's that great uh what's he called? Cliff. Huxtable? No. Cliff.

Who's the guy that wrote the book, The Comedians? Oh, Cliff Neseroff. Yeah. Yeah. That's a fabulous book. Yeah. I mean, really. And he's got a new one also.

Outrage. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic writer. Where it's like contextualizing comedians getting canceled and in trouble. Well, it's that thing where you go, I view this like in micro and macro. I kind of think like the idea that cancel culture is a problem is sort of horseshit. And you go, but in a golden age, everything looks yellow. So America and comedy, it's never been objectively better,

but subjectively worse. Say more. So the idea, and I around america on this tour i go to different and this is the land of milk and honey it is so fantastic and to perform comedy i mean the crowds are so up and everyone seems to be having a great time it's the the great places to eat great places to live like 10 cities you could very happily live in that is just great and yet subjectively oh everything's terrible's terrible. There's a civil war going on. You go, well, okay. But compared to other places, this is pretty bad. Yeah, this is not a real civil war.

And I'll tell you what was terrible, the civil war. And then comedy, there's a lot of, I think the downside with comedy is you're constantly looking at what everyone else is doing. And so you're looking over, oh, well, hang on on maybe i should have a huge podcast well that's you're fine do do your thing i'm trying to be more stoic i'm trying to do less better i think it's a really nice like don't accepting well the thing that i want to i i got it from this i got it from this this podcast i was listening to pete holmes on this it's a great episode i mean he's such a lovely man anyway and he has this line he says the world ordered a stand-up comedian you got to honor that as the line. He says, the world ordered a stand-up comedian.

You've got to honor that. As the person, like it said to you, you're a stand-up comedian. You were like, great. I'll try my absolute hardest to be great at it. The other stuff is kind of a side hustle. The other stuff that showbiz brings along. But the great thing about being a comedian is we're in show business, but we're not in show business. Carlin said to Rock one time, I'm not in show business. I'm a comedian. It's a great line. It sure is. Well, we're show in show business. Carlin said to Rock one time, I'm not in show business.

I'm a comedian. It's a great line. It sure is. Well, we're showbiz adjacent. We get to go to the parties, but no one is, you know, if you've ever been with real famous people, you go, people lose their minds around them.

It's a security issue immediately. Yes, we're like, we don't need security. We can travel commercial. We're absolutely fine. And I'm, you know, and listen, I'm saying that here. And I imagine most people listen to this listen in america and we'll go well of course you can you're literally just a man yeah big deal elsewhere i'll have you know travel i'm a big deal um okay let's get into the blocks stuff on here i didn't know okay which is great for a five-year

relationship enmeshed enmeshed uh, very close to my mother growing up. How come? I think my father was not. And so there's almost like you become a substitute spouse. You become very close emotionally with your parents. He was not around or he was emotionally not around? Emotionally not around. You become very close to your, I became very close to my mom. And so that was a huge part of my childhood

and adolescence and growing up. I mean, it really kind of follows you through. She died when I was about maybe 26. And that grief is a huge part of my sort of life and was a big turning point in terms of sort of pushing the fuck it button on going. I had a separation anxiety in my life. My biggest fear was my mother leaving. There was an incident when I was, I think I was three, and my mother's twin died. And so she had to leave to go to the funeral. No one really sort of told us what was going on.

We kind of left with our father for a couple of days. And I thought, you know, that thing with kids, you think it's forever. Yeah, it's object permanence is what they call it that you can it's why people play peekaboo yeah they go i am here or i'm gone and then you go and then you go ah no i'm i never leave yeah i am always with you even when you can't see me i think the the sadness of that death which i wasn't aware of but you get the you feel it you feel you feel it and you don't know what you're feeling you don't know what's going on but you go something's shifted something's sort of changing this the sadness of that and then

her being away i was kind of always very worried about that and so when she died it was the worst thing i mean it was just uh you know grief how did you okay well let me ask this was it so maybe the boundaries weren't great meaning if she takes you on as a surrogate spouse probably not the healthiest thing for a mother i know far too much about everything far too much middle-aged woman's bodies and stuff like that everything i know way too much about that so but always something i had great relationships with i think probably she you she palpable love oh and was so fucking funny. Had like incredible charisma was incredibly depressed.

I always think the only question to ask a comic and really, I think you should open with it every week on the show. If I had one note, which of your parents was sick, every comic we know everyone you've ever had on the show, which of your parents was sick and you had to make it. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, that really is like terrible atmosphere in the house. How are you going to learn how to change the atmosphere how are you going to learn to the thermostat is very cold you need to make things a bit warmer and nicer i remember really clearly as a kid like my mother was cooking some maybe christmas or whatever and i said i'm going to go and watch this thing she whoa whoa whoa whoa you stay there and i went i'm not doing anything vibes oh you're there for. You're making this all okay. And that thing of like you fulfill that role. You're a mascot.

And then you slightly go, well, you know, you're drawn to doing that in adult life. But she was incredibly funny. No sense of kind of embarrassment and was a larger than life kind of Irish woman from memory. Nora was her name. Great. Just a wonderful, great company. And then I thought it was just so normal.

You always think your life is so normal. So you think getting home from school and your mother still being in the dressing gown and hasn't got up and hasn't got herself together and isn't taking care of herself physically, you kind of, you don't want to give anyone a hard time. It's kindness in the moment where you let it go and you never question. Like, why are you not taking care of yourself physically why are you not are you aware that

you're that a an adult is supposed to or you don't even know that that's what adults i think you i think you do when you you start to be more aware of the outside world maybe it's from well yeah you go to friends houses 14 you see their house you see how they're how they're living and it seems different but also we seem less fun. People always came to my house. Oh, that's interesting. So you didn't have that thing where you were ashamed of bringing people back? No, I would have that thing of like, I would get home to my house.

I remember being at university and getting home, and my friends, sort of Giles and Phil and Gerard. Those are not just random British names. Those are real people. Actual friends. And Hiroshi. are not just random british names those are actual friends and hiroshi uh being in my house having like having like i get home and they'd be at home having coffee with my mom and you go you didn't invite them no they would just like everyone would just drop by each other's house or whatever but you got it you go what but i'm well we're just chatting fine you got her an

hour ago don't worry about it do you feel proud of your mom in that yes like could hold her old was like super super fun you're super close she's a bit of you guys are probably the co-life of the party sounds like yeah i think we we we had a great time the the block on that is i didn't have any relationships growing up at school and college didn't have friends you did not lots of friends lots of lots of girls i got on with never really had a girlfriend was it a what did because you didn't want to replace her and looking back on that i think that was the i was slightly blocked from that because of a very close relationship with that kind of no one was good enough and it was there was kind of a it was just like it's a

slightly weird thing being enmeshed it slightly feels like maybe a little bit too close there to to let someone else in. So, you know, that's, that was, that was an issue I think growing up. Was it a thing that you were aware of in the time or you? Yeah, I was, I was kind of, I was aware that there was kind of something missing there, something kind of, I mean, I also think, I mean, to be honest with you, when you kind of look back at high school as well, I think it was that thing of i i grew up in an era where it was very um what would you say unenlightened in terms of uh courting like so guys kind of had to we're kind of pushing it with girls a little bit and i was very very uncomfortable with that um dynamic always so you got probably probably a good thing in some respects yeah it was it was pretty gross yeah and very drunken and very you know yeah i was tiny and like at parties i'd be like trying to score what we used to call score with women

sure and it was like i remember girls like physically overpowering me of like you're not no you will not do that which is so i'm so tiny i wonder with that as well with the you know growing up in that in that era the i mean you end up having lots of you know it's fun growing up and you don't feel quite comfortable in your own skin you don't really become yourself i think it's like i don't think people talk about this enough your mind isn't developed fully till you're about 25 yeah and i really felt that switch which we didn't know until like eight years ago. Yeah, but it really makes sense to me. It really makes sense. I'm like going, there's such a hurry to get to someplace to make all your big decisions

before you're 25 and it's a race. And you go, well, no, you know, get yourself an education, you know, but everyone is an orthodict. Right. Everyone is, no one is still using the education they got. It just needs to give you a love of learning. Even doctors, like the best doctor, you know, ask him how much he's using that he learned at medical school. If it's anywhere more than 10%, the guy's a dummy, go to a different doctor. They're constantly relearning.

We're always learning the last war. You fight the last war. You fight in Iraq, you fight with the stuff you picked up in Vietnam. Right. Yes. And so it's always like old information. Well, it's always politicians are trying to fight the last election. You never get to fight that one again. Yes. You just have to go with your ability to learn and pattern recognition, which is what

comics kind of our superpower is what gets you there. What's it like when you go to university with your mom? Pretty good. Yeah, pretty good. I mean- In close touch too, or was it the first time you go to university with your mom? Yeah, pretty good. In close touch too? Or was it the first time you were not in the same house? Close touch. But like, you know, she didn't take good care of herself. She died when I was 26 of pancreatitis, which was a gallstone.

I mean, it's really silly. No, gallstone is not that serious. But if you don't get it treated straight away and it was the wrong side of Christmas, you wanted to wait till after Christmas and one burst and you get the pancreatitis, which is a horrible way to go. It's like nine months of agony. It's cancer or it's just- No, no, it's pancreatitis. Your pancreas just blows up.

And you can't clean it up, so to speak? Normally, alcoholics get it. So I imagine quite a lot of it in your family. I'm just saying. The guy does listen. Yeah. And was she bedridden at like very bedridden at that point? Yes. She was in intensive care the whole time. We had like two, three conversations for nine months. She was on a, I mean, actually the staff at the hospital

were fantastic because it's all about that stage. They say there's no such thing as euthanasia, but there is. A form of it. Well, they put them on a level of, so she would have had an epidural for the pain. And then it just gradually sort of shifts up to where your lung function goes to nothing. So there's a, you know, they tell you sort of, you know, five hours in advance, six hours in advance of the death. Oh, it's going to be today.

It's going to be this time. And they do know the week before it's going to be next week. Yeah. And it's weird as well the way the way the mind i remember on the first week there i met a young doctor and the doctor went yeah this is just there'll be there'll be ups and downs but this is this is it this is it man and that was very kind of him i totally forgot the conversation i mean totally blocked it out for that nine months you and then and then went oh yeah no that guy said oh yeah and then it's a weird thing with grief. When you know it's coming,

you know they're going to die and then they die and you go, ah. Okay, so when she dies, around the time she dies, did you feel a little liberated

or total devastation? Very liberated. It was the, and totally devastated. But the liberation was more like, oh, the thing I feared

since I was a baby had happened and it didn't matter. Nothing mattered. You've escaped from jail in a way. Well, but the ability to go out and do what you wanted to do and not care what anyone else thought. So a lot of me going to Cambridge, a lot of me like getting into the best university and doing well and getting all my exams and things was to, she used to refer to me in the biblical term of like, she got religious when she got older, very Catholic. And she would refer to me

as my son in whom I am well pleased. And kind of an ironic kind of family, but like she was really proud of that. It really meant a lot to her. Like the bragging rights for parents, your kid getting into Cambridge means so much more than for the kid. For the kid, it's like I went to university in the 1950s. Like everyone else was partying and doing ecstasy at university. And I was having sherry at a drinks party. We're going, the fuck is all, what? It was a weird place to go. And everyone there is sort of having the same experience? Everyone there, I mean, it's where I believe they invented imposter syndrome in Cambridge University because everyone gets there and goes, but I was the smartest kid in my school.

Right. The fuck? And then we'll come on to talking about my education naturally flows from this. I was pretty learning disabled as a kid. Put a pin in that. What's the best way to learn a language? Immersion. Living where the language is spoken and using it every day.

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and others continue to prove that Babbel's better. One study found that using Babbel for 15 hours is equivalent to a full semester at college. Babbel has over 10 million subscriptions sold, plus all of Babbel's 14 language courses are backed by their 20-day money-back guarantee. Again, I've been going to Spanish-speaking countries. A lot of them went to Spain, go to Mexico fairly often. Babbel has helped me. You use the app and then you're at a restaurant and you just are like, donde es el baño? Like super things, like where's the bathroom? Like it's just shit you're going to need. It's easy to learn like how to order food, ask for

directions, speak to merchants. It's about having a little bit of confidence. I always say the sign of being able to speak a language is mumbling it. And Babbel can get you there. You bring your own mumble but i can teach you the mumble here's a special deal for my listeners right now get 55 off your babble subscription but only for our listeners at babble b-a-b-b-e-l.com slash b-l-o-c-k-s get 55 off at babble.com slash b-l-o-c-k-s spelled b-a-b-b-e-l.com slash B-L-O-C-K-S spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash B-L-O-C-K-S. Rules and restrictions may apply. I would think that you now are your proclivities to get enmeshed with women. I mean, you're married, so. Yeah, I'm not married.

Or you're together. But the yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that thing of like I've got a pretty great relationship with uh my other half but you go i don't think it's particularly affected that going forward i don't think i've like carried it into um adulthood but it would be professional relationships if you're because you're you have a person it would the only place the only other place you could do it would be at work right or i guess just personal i think maybe in friendship sort of i like to think that i'm i'm i suppose the the the everyday parlance would be ride or die if i'm your friend i'm your friend yeah and i've got you i've i've experienced it and and and that and that's and i

view that and i kind of incredibly important part of life and and when people let me down then i really feel that it doesn't happen very often but if i get let down or i feel betrayed it's like ah just i'm not that's we got into a good habit early where if you did something that i was out of bounds yeah i can think of two times and you great immediately one of them i wasn't even done saying yeah and you were like i know and it was very heartening for me and and we had one like last week about a joke so and you were very like joke was a point yeah it was a point i don't do jokes was it no it was a really it was a really good point and i'd forgotten that you said it yeah it was fine and it was like oh yeah that's fine but it is a very

yeah that thing of like going we're good at that i think the the checking it and also i think respecting someone else's like the the fairness wouldn't be as important to me as it is to you. But that thing of like, I respect, that's your sort of special skill, I think. I get a lot out of this friendship because I know it's on these terms. I don't think it's more mine than you. I think it's shared, I would say. What was the runoff?

What was the downstream effects of the enmeshment with your mother? I know it's hard yeah i would say what was the uh runoff what was the downstream effects of the investment with your mother i know it's hard to it's hard to call i think the right because we have so many inputs and but the but the uh you you don't realize uh it's a matriarch until they're gone so the whole thing fractures and there's just boys left and you go oh two brothers yeah but boys don't really their birth birthdays forget it christmas forget it like all the nice things kind of went for a while you know home isn't a place it's a person so you're homeless for a while emotionally certainly so that's that's a that's tough and then you find that again you sort of build that again and and

find something that's you kind of remake it you remake what you lost what and try and make it better you know which is you know you know now i kind of i have did the relationship with your father change when your mother died uh i haven't seen him since really in any meaningful way great uh not really but great in terms of just but in terms of in terms of this podcast right i mean it's fucking right it's tremendous yeah it's uh yeah but that's like a whole other you know um a different episode well it's not a different episode it's that thing i mean it's literally the line that we spoke about the narcissist yeah which is your line please the line is uh in terms of narcissism they have the disease you have the side effects jimmy tried to sell that as his you can imagine

i mean it's i i almost i i wrote it and i kind of think it's just because of the accent yeah um so so that's a bad that seems like a very bad relationship yeah that's a bad relationship but then i think it what it's not because you go i think uh the thing that i got from uh alan on and reading a lot of the did you go to a lot of alan didn't go to a lot but yeah read a lot of the did you go to a lot of alan didn't go to a lot but yeah read a lot of the stuff and kind of really liked it but that thing of like detaching with love that the idea of going i don't want i don't there's no bitter list there's no sense of you want anything bad to happen you just go well that's not it's not good for me i don't

want that person in my life and so i won't have that person in my life it's hard to get rid of that stuff it just is i i i think i've not it finally, but like I've come to a new. But then, you know, you stuff with your father. I'm very aware of the is it's tough. And then you're kind of looking for to fill that hole. You're looking to kind of replace that. Who are we trying to impress? Yeah.

Were you trying to it seems like you were trying to impress your mother. Yes. Much more so. Yes. Is it one of those things where you think if I still find myself now when I do things Going ah, she would have thought this was cool like playing Carnegie Hall or something. Yeah, then going. Oh, this would have been Yes, well, that's funny. You thought she wanted you to go to Cambridge, but If she's funny, she would be real pleased with you being a

high level comedian i think so yeah i think it's uh it's a it's a sadness to think that you know she won't see that but you can't but there's a bit of you that kind of you know kind of lives on yeah it's spiritual it's maybe she feels that or you know or whatever okay so let's get into the the learning disabled did you know you were learning disabled? Yeah, but obviously I wasn't the brightest. So not that aware. I mean, like I knew socially I was pretty good with everyone else. Socially, I was in school and I was at the regular school, but I couldn't read or write.

I mean, I just couldn't. How old? Maybe 11 when I could write with any level of... Acuity? Acuity. But I mean, even then it was like very embarrassed by my handwriting. Couldn't really read out in class. Could read words kind of phonetically.

Explain dyslexia to people. Well, I suppose it's that thing where I don't even recognize what it's meant to be like. Like I think normally people write and they just go, I'm going to write down this thing and just think it and write it. I have to think about every single letter as I write it. Every letter of the word has to go down in order. So it just takes a lot longer. So my reading speed is slower than my thinking speed. So I'm much more on, I'm on audible at times three times three the speed because that's the speed i think at so i like that i like i don't think it's disrespectful to the author everyone sounds like mickey mouse to me everyone sounds like one of the chipmunks yeah like the greatest authors in the world sound like chipmunks to me because they're reading so fast so i listen to everything

at very sort of high speed but but the uh i would like to show you pictures of chipmunks and ask you what author they represent the but so it couldn't really write can't really write that well now i mean like you know spellcheck is kind of everything to me okay so dyslexic i get the thing with spellcheck where i don't even know what you're shooting for like spellcheck just goes like when it comes up with the way they i mean give us a clue use it in a sentence give me more you were just like i don't know what it starts with like if the words they suggest you're like i don't know what that word is yeah is that what you're saying a little bit like sometimes it will be just i've got absolute sort of blindness on it i can't see what the because

what happens is is the middle of the word tricky or the front and back i know it's the whole thing it's like i wouldn't know where to begin to and there's certain things i've just got blindness with the names susan and suzanne are the to me. I cannot see how there's a difference. I'm kind of in this. I think most people are in the same boat. But a weird like... How could I tell the difference, was kind of a dummy and had to go to special ed. And then it became a massive source of, you were drawn towards that to go, well, I'll do that. I'll join the debate club.

I'll show them. And I don't know who was proving that to myself, presumably. But now what do I do for a living? Well, I do a couple of TV shows where I'm reading autocue, which is literally the nightmare scenario of standing up in front of people, reading things. New Year's Eve can be a tough time for old people living alone. So what I like to do every year is not think about them because it's depressing.

Do you memorize before? No. Does someone say it to you? No, but I have it like, it's written in a really odd style. I got this great tip early on in my career from Anne Robinson, the lady who used to do The Weakest Link. Oh, yeah, yeah. You are The Weakest Link. Goodbye. I met her backstage and she went, oh, yeah, okay, you have trouble with the order

queue? What you want to do is this. And you write it as it's, because spoken English is very different from written English. Yeah. So you put way, like thousands of commas in everything. So when I write jokes now, thousands of commas, where the pauses write jokes now thousands of commas where the pauses are where the where the gaps are like everything really as you would say it that's the phraseology yeah and like properly like i realize do you do you only do audiobooks uh pretty

much now yeah because i can't think of a better read person than you like you're but you're not you're not reading you're listening yeah just listening to stuff constantly i'll do you know three or four a week i mean i i I love it. Podcasts and audio books. And I kind of think that thing of like, you know, I mean, I've said it already, but that education being something that like people seem to, it's such a dumb system that we go and then it stops. Oh, I got out of college when I was 25. Never read another book. Yeah. What? Yeah. Didn't have to. Yeah. I don't, I'm not obligated to do it. So I'm not going to do it. It's like, there's a lot of good shit in books or audio, you know. Yeah. Well, it doesn't matter. Yeah. But it does feel like

cheating to me, but everything feels a bit like cheating. Like the way that I got through my exam. So obviously I had to do very well in my exams to get to the university I wanted to go to. So you can't really write that well, but you have to get A grade essays. And how is that done? And really that was the first kind of thing of pattern recognition in my life. I remember my friend, Pete Maxman, he's a wonderful guy and so bright. And he was the best at history. And my history teacher, crazy old dude, great, went, just read his essays, do that. And so it was like, because you'd read his essay and see how he'd structured it. Okay. All right. Well, I can, I can't steal the essay, but I can steal the structure for this other topic. So back then you couldn't steal? Go ahead. So the, so the, uh, but the, but for the, for that topic, you could go, okay, well, for the

new thing, you can get that structure and you learn what it looked like. And I think the same thing in jokes. I think when you start in comedy, you're looking at your favorite jokes and kind of, I was kind of looking at why is that so funny to me? You know, i was looking at emo phillips or wander sykes or steven wright neither kind of joke to joke i'm going why is that why is that so funny to me why is that line did they start with that and then reverse engineer and then and almost like crossword puzzles like which i was found baffling trying to reverse them and then getting very into it like seeing the world in those and spending my time puzzles or joke as crossword puzzles i think that's maybe the closest thing to it almost feels like with a great joke it feels like oh the joke was already

there it was there and you just you cut away everything that wasn't a horse from the marble yeah that old quote you know kind of it was it was in there somewhere you could get to it so you're very studied and not it reminds me of the thing you were saying about therapy which is you know there are different kinds of therapy there are different ways to learn some people learn from hearing someone tell them about it yeah other people have to read it there's a thing called called uh there's photographic memory there's also phonographic memory i think i may have phonographic memory i can remember like if i listen to this podcast, pretty much name an episode, I tell you where I was when I heard it. Yes.

I could tell you which airport I was in, what I was doing when I heard that bit that I liked. And I would argue that we're very good at quoting jokes flawlessly. Yes. Because you hear a joke and you go, okay, I can. And then that's how. Yes. The rhythm of that the the the pacing of it the yeah yeah you you would be harder to get it wrong i i had to look up phonographic memory because i was like i'm good at remembering the and i was like oh i can yeah i now i get it like if i could listen to an audio thing but that's not other people have it like in a in a different way as well because you know the singers i know that have like the lyrics just it's just in there somewhere

yeah and are you do you take any pride in that or is it just like survival what the uh you know i was learning disabled and then i got an answer did i mention that you you said it right you you're one of the most well-read people i know okay now that I'll remember because I'm so embarrassed at my lack of intelligence that I spend my life overcompensating or compensating for it. So I read a lot and I study a lot and I think I got my work ethic from being a dummy. So you go, well, I feel like I didn't deserve to be at that university. I like i i was a that place should have gone to someone else and i better make this work i better i better do my best here i better and you weren't any sort of charity case it wasn't like this guy is not they don't need they charge cambridge in the 90s did not do that they were there this you had to be uh you had to

be pretty good and it was a very i mean it was a great course it was really interesting okay but what i'm saying is are you happy do you take pride in the fact that it was a great course. It was really interesting. Okay. But what I'm saying is, are you happy? Do you take pride in the fact that it was over, I don't know, age 11 to 17, you really dug deep and figured it out? Yeah. I think I had a massive advantage in that when I was 16, I changed schools and I don't think you ever get to beat your environment. So I think the hugely important thing for me was going, okay, I was 16, doing well at school, had my friends at that school who I loved, but they were just funny and were just fucking around and drinking and getting into trouble. And we scraped through our exams and we're going to stay on to do the next bit, the last two years of school.

And I left, I went to another school and it was my mother went, oh, there's this other school. One of your friends goes to that we know from the village and it's a bus ride and a train ride and it's miles away. Do you want to go? Yeah. Why did you want to go? Because I kind of had a sense of not wanting to be, I knew what track I was going down and I didn't like where it was going. I went, oh, okay. I'll go a different way. So I remember arriving there the first day and there was one other new kid, this kid, Giles. And we went, oh, oh let's i want to go to cambridge and we both went yeah okay and no one laughed no one kind of went what are you talking about and it was really it really felt like oh okay well maybe maybe with those kind of guys and there was a couple of great teachers there was a um this guy called mr clay and mr far who like the the and they were just fantastic

they were just kind of believed in us and it was it was that that thing of like the real cliche of going well that turned on a six because then you were sort of down that road and you had more you know you have to give the world irrefutable evidence you are who you say you are and it was that thing of like okay well if i work hard at this it pays off later and that does that inform everything everything in your life for the next so yeah i think it's the thing i've only kind of realized recently about that's the whole of religion is that the whole of religion is prioritized later god is a an analogy for the future work hard now there's a great afterlife now i don't believe in an afterlife but i do believe in the next life. And if you work hard now.

Oh, next living life. A next life. Like, yeah, there's a life that you've had, like you don't recognize yourself from 15 years ago. You're a different person now because you put that work in and it's, you know, so the gifts you give yourself in the future, the idea that if you go and work out in a great body when you're 60, if you save the money now, you'll have, you'll be a rich man later. Delayed gratification.

The marshmallow test is what we're obsessed with yeah yeah that that whole thing is like prioritize later is every self-help book you've ever read every religion you've ever heard about it's always do the work now and it'll pay off later you know it's interesting i don't think i mentioned the marshmallow test on here the marshmallow test being they put a five-year-old in a room by themselves and they say i'm going to put an adult says i'm going to put a five-year-old in a room by themselves and they say, I'm going to put an adult says, I'm going to put a marshmallow on the table and, uh,

I'm going to go away for five minutes. If I come back and you haven't eaten the marshmallow, I'll give you a second marshmallow. And biggest single predictor of success in life. Yes. Is that not everyone's taken it, but all of in the times they've done it the longitudinally the kids who didn't eat the marshmallow in the five minute

window have better life outcomes which is just like well then there it is it's just can you delay gratification then you can can you save money can you do hard work can you with very little reward it's stand up you suck and you get no money and then you just stick what you can take it the downside is you get into kind of a philosophical thing not the downside but the interesting thing i think is it's not the pursuit of happiness it's the happiness of pursuit having stuff isn't fun getting stuff is fun that's kind of life that's a great life lesson i think they're going you think you'll be happy when you won't you'll just need a new challenge i think we work very well with purpose so it's that thing i was slightly lost in my you know post-college early

20s mid-20s like trying to find what i wanted to do pre-comedy it's like quite a lost period of like i don't know your mom died at 26 yeah 25 26 yeah and then you felt like a new it was like a period on a the sentence of a life and you're like okay or in your case of comma and you start you're like okay now there's no observers this is how i feel when i'm in asia which is i like going to asia because no one no one's looking no one i it feels like you're hiding from america they're all looking at you well they're all looking yeah but but no one's there's no sex tourist well they're all i did it whenever i'm there i do i was like i'm a sex tourist pretty much everywhere i go if i go to whole foods i'm like i'm still a sex tourist i don't have to go to asia yeah um but yeah it's i like the idea of a of a duo or a start over

thing of like we are who we are when nobody's watching that lovely thing of going well if you're on your own who who are you really and finding someone you can be yourself with like properly yourself is very unusual i'm also very highly uh sensitive to perceived judgment like we're what happened when the studio wasn't available we got here or whatever we the times were fucked up we went and got coffee we are in my car we're in my house and the whole i'm not doing like exactly like flinching but i just assume the judgment is in your head it's like what kind of house is this what kind of what kind of car is this but you know and so even you're not judging.

I just assume you're judging. Yes, but it's that, what's the quote? It's the, in our 20s, we think, we worry about everyone thinking about us. In our 30s, we think, I don't care what everyone thinks about us. In our 40s, we realize they weren't thinking about us the whole time.

Everyone is just doing their best. Yeah, we're in a windshield flying past each other. But then it's a, something's got to motivate you motivate you right something's got to be the thing that and some with you it's the perceived slight is the is the thing with me it's like you know okay well i thought i was a dummy so i'm gonna have to work hard and do this and then maybe a little bit of insecurity is why i'm a joke to joke comic that really appeals to me of going i've just got to get to the next laugh quick it's the observation i had of like i come into every conversation five points down and i have to like okay and i'll do gossip if i'm really bombing like

or here's a name drop or here's a because i don't think i'm doing well and i don't i don't think i'm enough so i have to come in and yeah i remember having that realization with joan rivers uh we got to work with before uh before she passed and she was doing we were taking her to dinner like so that she was on our show in the uk and like a proper actual legend i mean one of them yeah and she was making notes one of the absolute great making notes in a hotel room before the dinner, for the dinner, like cue cards, so she would have bits about topical stuff that she could throw in for a dinner with a bunch of, what? Of course. And why was she one of the greats? Well, because of that.

The thing driving that. There's this weird thing with, you know, in our industry, you know, we've said it before, we'll say it again, comparison is the thief of joy. You're always looking at what other people are doing. Everyone always wants what you've got. They never want to do what you had what you did yeah and not just the hard work the emotional world the torture well you had to feel i just i'm editing my special the watching yourself over and over and over is a recipe for an abyss it's direct just go like well i mean the physical we can come on to that now if you want the the physical thing of going being on screen or whatever having a just you you look how you look no one cares no one's coming to see my show because

of how i look yeah and yet it becomes obsessive the idea of of taking care of yourself and being the right weight and being properly groomed at all times. It becomes just a compulsion. Hey, if I asked you how many subscriptions you have to anything, would you be able to list all of them and how much you're paying for them? Cable, phone, gym memberships, any of it. Could you name them? If you would ask me this question before I started using Rocket Money, I would have said yes, and then I would have tried, and I would have been wrong.

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I've got a low-level eating thing where I'm very, I think about, I don't have an eating disorder that you would recognize as one of the serious ones. I think about food a lot. You don't. You said you don't. No, I don't. I think about food a lot. And I'm this weight because I'm hungry a lot of the time. I could be bigger.

But I feel happy. You were bigger. I feel happy at this weight because I go, well, actually, I don't think about it a lot. But I think it's partly my mother passing and not taking care of herself and being a little bit overweight. And wanting to take care of myself and be a parent for longer. a little bit overweight and wanting to take care of myself and be a parent for longer. And that kind of, you know, all mortality, I think kind of grief is cumulative. You don't just grieve what you're grieving at the time.

It's every time. It's all your grief, I'm assuming. Or is it you're taking on your mother's grief? I think you go, well, so when your mother dies, you grieve. That was the first big loss that I had. But when friends have died since, even pets have died since, sometimes just it will hit you in a way that you think, was that commensurate?

Is that emotionally, did I know them well enough to get them to me? Your friend Sean died, comedian? Yeah, it was pretty bad, yeah. A girl died. I mean, it was really bad. But my dog died about six weeks ago. One of my dogs that I had for 14 years. Mackie was a beautiful dog and he passed and it was you know we did it really beautifully at home with the vet came to us but all the grief from the past comes back and you think about your

own mortality it's a cumulative thing and i think somehow the controlling you know anyone that goes to a doctor should be consulting a chef first it's that thing of like what you're putting in there it has consequences yeah has consequences down the line we don't say that a lot because we want to be kind to people in the moment to your mother for instance yeah you want to be kind in the moment whereas i thought my not theory but i think kindness is incredibly important but it's got a temporal element to it. You want to be kind in the future. So being a parent kind of teaches you, you want to be kind to your kid, but you don't want to buy them McDonald's every day. You don't want to be so kind that it is a disservice.

Yes. You go, well, you could give into them all the time. They want to watch TV and eat junk food. That's what they want. And you go, well, no, you're going to, we're going to pretend to be different people than we are for the next 15 years pretend we love broccoli and reading books and that's the and that's how you that's parenting and then at one stage we'll go ah yeah we love mcdonald's yeah that's that's uh i have a hard time with that meaning i am very quick to go to judgment or go to like, well, if you really want to know if you, you know, I have a friend who's having a drinking problem and I'm, I'm saying,

yeah, you can feel sorry for yourself. You can talk about all the things that have been done to you. Can you stop drinking? Cause it's going to do a, it's going to do huge damage to you if you don't stop. And, and I, but at the same time, I'm like, I think I've been empathetic in the past, but now it's a bit like, Hey, if you want, I also can't take on, uh, somebody like, can

you kind of help me with this? I'm like, if it's drinking, I can't, cause I'll get too codependent and I'll get too forceful and I'll get too worried and if you drink i'll get super disappointed and judgmental of you and so that is interesting of like where do you draw the line with kind of where does where does where's what's the when does kindness become kind of yeah toxic for a lack of what's that what's that book the uh this uh there's something mind this naked mind okay this naked mind is a really good book because if aa doesn't work for you and for a lot of people What's that book, This Something Mind? This Naked Mind. Okay.

This Naked Mind is a really good book because if AA doesn't work for you, and for a lot of people it just sort of doesn't. Yeah. It's not their thing. So they go, well, I'll get California sober and just do marijuana or whatever. This book's really good because it's the John Sarno, you know the guy healing back pain or the mind-body connection? Really interesting books on back pain and how most of it's emotional in our society. The thing on his book,

Dr. Sarno, is half the people read the book and their back pain goes away. Well, here's this guy. I've read the book. I was in Lisbon. Just listen to it. Walked around Lisbon,

had back pain. He said in the book, oh, the back pain will transfer into your shoulder for like a day and then it'll go. like it might pass through some of the bit of you woke up with a frozen shoulder and then gone just oh okay i know what that was about great what was it about it was about my relationship with my father yeah but it was like it was just gone like okay all right you kind of acknowledge that. It was so quick and so, it almost felt like,

I feel like a hippie kind of saying it, like, can you read this book? It's certainly worth doing before you get the back surgery. Yeah. Before you get your scoliosis treated. Read the book. Because I brought it up on this podcast,

for how long did you wake up every morning at the same exact time and go, how long did that last? Maybe seven years. Seven years. You used to wake up- Every morning? 4 a.m.

Panic attack. Yeah. That was pretty bad. That was bad. Seven years. Were you doing anything to counter it that time? Not really. No.

I think it's like, panic attacks are weird because you can, I had one on stage in Australia once and it was like in front of 4,000 people and the gig went great and I had a panic attack. And it's. Did you say you were having a panic attack? No. I. And did you listen back to the performance? We've got panic attack stories, right?

The, we do. I should tell a story. No, finish it and then I'll tell it. Okay, so the panic attack, like if you haven't had one, fabulous. And I, you never need to experience it. Yep you the first one is the scariest after that they're okay the first one is like i can't you have no idea what's happening yeah i i i can't stand up i can't sit down i don't want to eat i'm hungry i want to sleep i'm not tired like it's everything. It's incredibly uncomfortable, but you can function through it. There's no sense of, ah, and I thought there's something about my voice and the way that I

present myself, where if I say I'm very insecure and that's why I tell all these jokes and I, I don't, not very self-confident and I think I'm a dummy. There's something about my voice where you go, you can hear it on one level and another bit of you's going no yeah fine very successful british man don't worry about it yeah but you have to be aware of how the world perceives you and then mediate between the two it feels like that you know sometimes like me having a panic attack because i don't sound like i'm having a panic attack so okay did did it start i think caroline is often surprised mother half is often surprised if I go, I'm feeling a bit down. Yeah.

You seem fine. What are you talking about? You're like an emotional, are they called bobbies? The guy who's standing in front of the... The Overton window of my emotion is that, like, you can get, you know, given a Netflix special, you're filming it, it goes great.

It's a huge deal. And I'm, oh, good. And then, you know, something, your friend died oh okay it's like are you talking about that's what people's expectations are that's what you're that's kind of how that's how i present it's not how i feel i feel overjoyed and i feel sorrow but i think i present fairly yeah steady yeah you're like the guy who stands in front of downing street the soldiers who won't the fur hat my panic attack story involving jimmy was so it's fairly

laborious in terms of how i started having them had started having them two weeks before three mics and then i went on zoloft after that they stopped and uh and then i'd stopped taking zoloft again i'm in london with dave chapelle Dave Chappelle and Jimmy's there uh came to the show it was Dave's show and I go on stage here's what happened Trevor Noah had told me that people in England just heckle freely as like part of the show so I I'm like fuck it's the same theater I think he did and I'm like I'm'm like and Sina Dave's Roman was like hey you gotta go out now and I was like what and then I go on stage

James and Jamil are there and I do a minute and I can feel the I'm getting tunnel vision can't breathe can't think and I was just like hey Jimmy come on out Jimmy Carr andimmy car and he could be they're very

happy to see you and i go backstage catch my it's once i it only takes about 40 seconds to clear my body but i don't know time yeah of course and then you brought me back out and i did a good set so yeah but it was like it was kind of unfortunate but i could tag team tag team wrestling yeah um so so i understand panic attacks now i take a beta blocker and they i get none i before i go on stage all right yeah no i i uh i i kind of don't like medicating i i kind of not like i like to feel my feelings i like to kind of go okay well i'll i'll feel that and as long as it's not really bad like i got beta blockers one time when i got cancelled i got uh i got some beta blockers it was the the tax thing that i had like in 2012 jimmy's had two scandals taxes and uh and uh many

scandals in between not all of them make it to the states got it okay i get cancelled about about every two years there's there's an incident great uh normally a joke which is fine you know because you've got to right size it. I told a joke, some people didn't like it. Yep. That's kind of okay. But when it's a big thing,

the tax thing really felt like, oh, this could be not an existential crisis, but this could end your career or could change it. And I got Peter Block because I remember taking one

the first day. I think, okay, everything feels all right. And they just had them as a sort of a talisman. It's like, okay,

they're there if you need them. Don't need them. Right, but you'd rather, yeah. I use Downton Abbey. I think it has the same effect as valium it's a very chill show yeah nothing shocking is going to happen i found it very calming what do you watch i haven't watched any of them hadn't watched any of them and then watch those like for like 10 nights in a row

watch the season i just really found it very kind of grounding i't know why, but sometimes it's like that thing of like, what are you going to go to when you're feeling like going, well, People use comedy for that. Yeah. I think a lot of people use comedy for that. Okay. So what are the, you wrote anxiety disorder counterfactuals. What does that mean?

I spend my life, like when I wake up at four in the morning in a panic attack, partly it's the physical thing, but, and that's gone now. How did you get rid of it? I think having kids had a, had a huge effect on that. So there's something more important than you in the world. And that changes your outlook on life. Um, just in a very positive way for me. I mean, I really wanted kids. I was really excited about the prospect and then it's, you saying it's delivered get me pregnant yeah and it's it was so hard on those walks um the the uh it was it's it's it's like i mean it really feels like it's that that thing where you're not the priority anymore and it's that last stage of uh

growth yeah well okay oh i'm not a big deal okay yeah it's like you don't worry about it but you do there's a there's almost like the the like you don't worry about it but you do there's a there's almost like the the uh you know how the big bang you can still hear the sound from the big bang in space they they oh yeah there's a rumble from it there's a low level rumble of anxiety with having a kid that no one talks about and it's the counterfactuals like i'm not worried about falling off a cliff i'm worried about jumping i'm not worried about let's see you spend your life thinking about things that haven't happened won't happen but you're constantly thinking about something bad could happen to the kid there's something bad so every news is it all

based on it happening to him everything with the kids is about something bad could happen to him so every new story becomes a well what would you even do if that if if something happened it's it's it is that thing of uh i can't remember whose quote is the it's like having a medical procedure where your heart lives outside your body that does feel what it's like do you ever worry about uh dying and abandoning him stuff like that or you have two kids now mortality feels like it's a become a much bigger deal just based on like i don't want to hurt him i like i die it's fine if you're if you die and you leave your partner you

go well yeah i'd want them to be upset for a reasonable amount of time but please 10 years go love again i would say like anything over two weeks i'd be thrilled like honestly i should find someone else she's super oh i don't want her to not find super funny super great give it a couple years but warren's even keep me in your heart for a while that song sums it up beautifully think of me occasionally great but the but now with kids you're oh my god you've got to make it through for them yeah we just talked before about having a kid and what's been yeah you're one of my many friends who's had a kid and loves it yeah tell me more about loving it i think it's the it's tickets to the greatest show in the world because it's like uh and uh uh the emotional experience of like that bandwidth that i have of like the joy to sadness the idea kids are so when you're with them you're i'm not great at meditating but

when you're with kids you're in that moment with them and there's nothing else and it's kind of phones away and you're just kind of you're playing with them and it's incredibly fun to see the world and talking about a show where you're invested in the lead character yeah pretty big yes like the investment that you feel for your kid is. And getting to know them, like you have the baby and everyone's obviously thrilled with the birth and they, oh, there's a kid

and it's great and it's healthy and lovely. And then you get to know them. And everyone with one kid is a nurturer. Everyone with one kid will tell you, well, we used oat milk

and this kind of special soother and these nappies. So obviously he walked at nine months everyone when they have two kids goes oh they come out with factory settings they they just they are who they are so we you know it's they're different and they're yeah they've got they've got their own sense of self and you sort of see glimmers of that even when they're sort of one and a half you see this person it's just it's based on their taste movement blinking how they are with you how just how they how they interact not speaking even not speaking like pre pre-language you can tell

who they are as a person it's great i mean i couldn't recommend it okay so do we i think we covered the eating disorder yeah we we're both pretty i think we're on a similar tip on that i'd say there's not. Yeah. I get mad. All of the things I eat that are over a certain amount, they just go to my stomach and love handles. And it makes me so aggravated. So that's what a lot of my controlled food stuff is. It's like, I know where you're going.

So I have to keep it around a weight, past that weight. It's just like, and it's like i know where you're going so i have to keep it around us weight past that weight it's just like and it's it's wrong it's an injustice it really is just like this is wrong what you're doing on my body so i just have to keep it within a certain you know we won't get into the weight but yeah but uh, but so mine is, I think it's, you know, we were talking earlier about, you know, there may be too many people talking about mental health on podcasts.

I don't know if there are, I don't think men are really eating disorders are totally on. I, we talk about it on here, but like for the most part, I never see people talking about it. I think maybe it's holding a mirror up because we're on TV. We're on podcast work and we see ourselves.

I think increasingly everyone is seeing themselves. I mean, remember that thing when mirror up because we're on TV, we're on podcast work, and we see ourselves. I think increasingly, everyone is seeing themselves. Remember that thing when we were kids, we were told, the people of native South America think if you take a photo, it steals your salt. And I remember at the time thinking, that's some nonsense. And now, with Instagram, I think, yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. It's not one photo. It's two million photos it's every photo you've ever seen of yourself so you have this perception of who you are that isn't really you

you never get to see what effect you have in a room when you come in and you're 3d and you affect it by the way you don't get it when you're looking in a mirror it's a reversed image it's you ever sometimes they'll have flip mirrors or whatever they're called. And you see, and you're like, oh, that's different. Yeah. It is a weird, it also is be, everything's a beauty contest because of Instagram and,

or some kind of contest, which is as a person that's already competitive enough. It's like, I don't want to participate. Yeah. I read that. There's a great book by Will, Will Storr called the status game.

Did you read that? Yeah. I bought it and haven't read it. I've read a few other status books. Like about that weird thing about like what that force that's going on sort of through life of like you're sort of comparing yourself to other people and how am i doing and the work all is my find you work more than anyone i know yeah yeah maybe kevin hart's got you but like i think probably has but but the like this year was 300 shows, which is, that's a lot. And it's difficult to, it's difficult to justify because you kind of go, well, you don't need

anything, but it's the enjoyment of doing it. It's partly that thing of like going, this might not last forever. Is there an Ironman element of it? Like I can do, I can do 300 shows and they're all good. Yeah. There's a, there's a bit of proving something to yourself. There's a bit of kind of going, well, look, if you write the show, that feels like the tough bit to me.

Writing the show, going and performing is a pleasure. Yeah. It's a joy to do. And it's slightly different every night and you mess around a bit. And it's always an enjoyable experience to do the show. And the travel can be hard on you or whatever, but I love doing it. I mean, it's that thing of going. And I think I get to spend more time at home than most parents. How come? Because I work

nights. Right. But you, how long were you in Australia? But the kids came to Australia. Okay. So it's that thing, like the big trips, they come, you're never away more than sort of 12 or 15 days would be kind of the absolute max. You'd want to be away. And then you'd be home for the same amount of time. When I'm home, I'm when you're home you're around till even if i have the uk so small if i'm geeking in britain you could i could leave the house at 4 30 and make it to manchester for a show at eight you've got great trains we've got great transport system drive back afterwards be up with the kids in the morning yeah it's like if you look if you if caroline's fine with it you're fine with it, there's no problem.

But I think there is that thing of going, there's two things going on. One is safety. Is there a bear going to attack us? Do we have a roof over our head? Do we have enough to eat? And then one is scarcity. And I think the scarcity thing is like, do we have enough? If it all finishes tomorrow, do we have enough?

And I think the reason one day there will be a trillionaire is because for some people, a hundred billion wouldn't be enough because there's a scarcity thing. So I think there's a bit of my mind that goes, oh, you need to, don't turn it down. Are you going to put in a new tour? Yeah, of course we're going to play everywhere again. Of course you're going to go to all those places. Of course. More, more, more. And do you keep an eye on that? Well, no, because I mean, it's, it's, it's very joyful. It's like traveling the world as well. You go, I can't complain about it. I mean, it's like, I really can't complain.

It's like, A, I chose it. And B, like the idea of going, I did 50 countries on the last tour. 50s, like that's, you saw the world. Yeah. It's amazing. And you had your whole day free. And you get to meet interesting people and ask them interesting questions because you're doing a show that night and you kind of need to know

you know whatever bizarre thing is on that tour where are the sluts from you need to ask that's often the thing or what's the local town where would you where do you think the inbred people and they've always got an answer there's always all these guys yeah i'm just there last night they said you guys i like when there's four people and they're all pitching their own like well they are those people are super inbred yeah the the i will say that i feel like you've changed in the time i've known you you've kind of grown or your values have kind of the other good thing about the amount of free time we have is like, we can think about it. We can think about like, what am I doing? There's more, there's more self-reflection time. Yes, I think so. I think if you're, if you know, if you're working two jobs and supporting a

family or whatever, there's not a lot of time to be, you know, being well-read is a massively privileged thing. You've got the time for that. So the idea of going, yeah, I think I have changed and grown, but I think that's, you know, my favorite question. My, if you sit next to someone at a dinner and you don't know them, what was the last thing you changed your mind about? Always a great question. Always very interesting to kind of go, well, what's the, are you just rearranging your prejudices? If you have the same views you had when you were 25, if I can ask you what you think about abortion and from that, I know every other opinion you will have. Like, ah, it's kind of not exciting. I like it when

people are like, what do you want to fence about? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what, what, what do you, Peter Thiel has this question, which is what opinion do you hold that would be very unpopular? Yeah. Amongst your crowd. Yeah. Yeah. In in the world it's right it's really interesting oh okay that's and when do you what's too crazy yeah it's like i think we need to open our minds about what to do about down syndrome you know what i mean whatever that whatever the thing is that you go it's but that's why i think free speech is so important because if you take away free speech you don't know what people are thinking. And that's more dangerous when it bubbles up.

If you don't talk about stuff openly and people don't feel like they have a voice, then it bubbles up in very strange ways. And these unexpected shocks to people happen. People are shocked by Brexit or Trump or the level of anti-Semitism in the world now. It's a huge issue know genuinely it's like it's a huge issue and it's always been there but it was people didn't talk about it people didn't engage with that which is you know it's dangerous free speech is i think massively important yeah i i yes but i have a longer explanation like within i i believe in limits whatever it's the wrong podcast uh We'll go on Rogan.

Right. Yeah, so I would like to say that you're a great friend. You're a fucking hilarious guy. You'll pitch jokes. I feel guilt right now for not being funny enough on this podcast. I always feel like it's a different side of yourself you're showing on these things. It's not enough. But you know what I mean? on this podcast. Like, I always feel like it's a different side of yourself you're showing on these things, but like, oh, it's not enough.

But you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, I'm used to do it. So, and I also like trade in confession. Like that's sort of my three mics and blocks

is more confessional. But when you watch three mics and when you watch blocks, it is pretty joke to joke. I mean, like there's maybe more joking than you think. Yeah.

I mean, even blocks like the the end of blocks which is great but like right up until the like it's right up until the last moment you go funny funny funny funny funny okay yeah emotional clothes yeah which you absolutely earned right but it feels like but i earned it by jokes in a weird way so it's like it is i i agree with you but there's i i would i'd like you to be a little not even emotional but like what you said of no one would believe most of your true setups yes no one would believe like i'm insecure they'd be like what

like i don't i'm i'm against you i don't buy this premise i think again that's a that's another big thing in the world at the moment where you go, I'm not self-authored. I can't tell the world who I am. We have to make an agreement. It's a mediation. Your sense of self is a mediation between you and what the world thinks. And I think, again, the world

orders stand-up comics. Get on there, tell some jokes, do your thing. And then, you know, earning out. There's a couple of longer bits in the next special, which you've seen. And, you know, longer bits which are more confessional which are more kind of you know open and it'll go that way a little bit more as i as i go but still my love language is one liners by the way i you sent me the special and you you'd also directed it and i think i was a little stingy with the praise yes on directing great agreed because i've directed because i because i came i come from writing and directing so if and i'm so so much more impressed

with being a comedian and having a persona and having a great career so you were like what about the drawing i was like i don't care but i was like you're jimmy carr i don't care that you can direct but i know it's a new thing that you've done and i should have been more i shouldn't have dragged you into my point of view well no i mean the thing about the direction on it was i think sometimes stand-up specials can be a tough watch because it's three shots on repeat and i so i wanted every camera shot to be moving i wanted everything to feel like it had like a natural and it also was moving at kind of 92 beats a minute like felt like it had the energy the same energy as your act as what i was delivering and was constantly you know moving

i just think it's that thing of like you're used to watching that in every other genre yes and stand-up is quite can be quite yeah okay Yeah. Okay, I'm wearing that. What was your great line about? It's Bo Burnham's line. So good. Your t-shirt is basically the production design. Like instead of lights

and dynamics and curtains and da-da-da. He's like, it's your shirt. We're here most of the time. So it's just your shirt. Yeah.

But having a bit more movement in it, I think it's better. I think it's the best thing I've done. the time so it's just your shirt yeah um but having a bit more movement in it what about i think it's better i think it's the best thing i've done i agree but i'm just saying like i didn't i was aware in the like shortly after the moment and uh and i that's why i but i think there's a tendency sometimes when you go to not say it because you think the person doesn't need to hear it because they're like well he knows he's a safe pair of hands he knows he's has you know two hours of great jokes but you go that thing when we send each other the new stuff it's always that thing of going yeah no i so i apologize for that and i now i give you the compliment now um the compliment would have meant nothing if we weren't recording it by the

way i would have just been well no it's you would have forgotten immediately yeah of course um what is great this is anything you wanted to talk about that we didn't talk about yes the blocks podcast and the i don't know how long this is going to run for but i hope it runs forever i've so enjoyed it uh it's it's great thank you really feels like and kind of every time i listen i go i should watch blocks again i love doing it so and again it's your idea so you're enjoying i like basking in reflected glory i've had to do absolutely nothing. And I've got, like it was basically an idea for a podcast

I wanted to listen to. And I've so enjoyed listening to it. Especially I think some of the people, I didn't know their comedy that well. Yeah. So I listened and then went and watched two specials off the back of it, which I kind of think is the perfect way

because you're so much more invested post this show. Right. Going and watching clips of Carrot Top and going, oh, it's a fucking good joke. Yeah. Like whatever the thing is that you go, I wasn't aware of his work particularly. But you listen to it and know who he is as a guy. We may be going to Las Vegas together.

We'll go see him. That'd be great. So that's the new Brennan Promise. The U2 Carrot Top double. We'll see if we can get him to open for them. I mean, I think they got to be open to it. I believe they... They should open for him.

That's something. He should do the sphere. Yeah. Explode. I mean, please. All right, buddy. You're such a great guy. You're such an important figure in my life.

And I love you. And now it's on film. Okay. Well, I... This this is awkward isn't it no i love you right back i love this is great okay god bless jimmy Bye.