Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Marc Rebillet

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Marc Rebillet about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. --------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe to Marc Rebillet:  @MarcRebillet   🎙️ Have a Question about your Blocks for Neal? 🎙️ Email “[e-mail]” to have your question answered on a future episode.  ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 1:30 How He Came To Be 2:53 Making Music, Performing & Working Bad Jobs 11:32 Reggie Watts and Jack Black 14:41 Career Struggles  18:26 Career Trajectory 20:02 Overthinking His Job 28:26 Long Term Relationships 38:43 People Pleaser 46:20 Work Ethic 54:42 Resisting Advice 1:04:15 What He’s Done To Get Better ---------------------------------------------------------- FOLLOW & RATE Blocks: » Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blocks-w-neal-brennan/id1658660161 » Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6gx3bANm25DtKA3cnlBH1r https://nealbrennan.com for tickets Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Neal's Instagram: https://instagram.com/nealbrennan Neal's Twitter: https://twitter.com/nealbrennan Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle #standup #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standupcomedian #marcrebillet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Please drink responsibly. Carlsberg, Canada, Inc., Waterloo, Ontario. Hi, Neil Brennan here. You're watching the Blocks Podcast. My guest today is a guy I know a little bit. You may recognize him from the internet. He lives on the internet. And he got his start on the internet by waiting in line for iPhones.

I've been here since 6 o'clock this morning. There's a nice flashback of him doing that. How old were you during that? Oh, man. 16, probably 17. You seem like yourself, though. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's weird to watch because it's like relatively fully developed personality. You can't discard that guy. No, that's who you are. That's fully who I am. Yeah. You just make catchy ass songs and you do from what I i've seen i did i saw a little bit of you in montreal from very far away oh yeah his name is mark rebele everybody he's here today here i am

let's learn more about the man abracadabra i've appeared how old are you 35 great yeah so you you earned it aging but you earned it is what i'm saying it's like you weren't you didn't make it at 19 and no god no far from it you're like slow burnham yes i just made that up bow burnham but fantastic yeah um yeah we could only hope to have his trajectory jesus christ for all of us yeah gosh endlessly just burning shooting stars ridiculous he's great so so what did you i i don't really know much about how you came to be well yeah like you said it was very much a slow burnham it was like i started trying to be an actor it was like i was acting for my whole childhood i grew up in new jersey partly and then

texas dallas and i was doing like regional theater high school for acting college for acting dropped out of college scared fell out of love with the theater thing i think and i'd also scared in that in what way well I think scared of wasting money. You know what I mean? It was like this expensive private school in Dallas, SMU. Okay, so this is instead of college? Yeah. Got it.

Yeah, it was... I was in there like smoking weed. I mean, it was a university. It was just private and expensive. And so I just dropped out before I could do any more damage to like- How long did you stay? A year. Okay.

A year. I like transferred just reflexively into journalism for like two weeks, which would have been fun, I think. Still kind of would enjoy. You know what I mean? This is dying. Yeah. That's true, actually. Not a good industry.

You're better off making songs on the internet right go ahead and bust the tits out now go ahead and bust the tits out baby go ahead and bust the tits out baby yeah i mean it worked out it worked out all right so then you're 22 and then what do you think what are you gonna do dropped out basically well i'd been so at the same time as the acting shit i'd been playing piano since i was like four, four, maybe. And that's just a side thing. I just play piano. I've raised like trained classically and then taught myself like jazz blues ish roughly.

And so, yeah. So then I was like, all right, I'll buy myself a home studio and uh see if i can learn how to make shit and the goal is what you like what are the what what was available it was i would say it was pretty fully like digital at that point we're talking 2009 10 you know what i mean so it's like timberland yeah and these people making like digital hits. So it's like Logic and a little MIDI keyboard and drum pads. And you could really buy like a full, fully functioning home studio setup for like under a grand, you know, even less. So yeah, I got the keyboard.

And what sort of songs did you think you were going to make? I had no idea. I think I wanted to do hip-hop really i the goal was like to be a producer like a traditional producer like making beat tapes for people sending them here you like anything yeah 20 grand exactly like sending them to producers sending them to contests submitting whatever yeah i tried to do that for like a decade basically you know just very unsuccessfully and are you like what are you doing for money i waiting tables i got you know customers i was hoping yeah yeah

good boy good good good right i mean all sorts of shit dude oh a ton yeah i mean i yeah executive assistant i did like mortgage loan servicing. Um, I got my, my real estate license for like half a year. Miserable, miserable, miserable. You know what the thing about it is, is that when you work, it's like, I, you don't want to do any of these jobs, but like the difference between waiting tables and a real estate license is like waiting tables. You don't have to give a shit about it, but waiting tables and a real estate license is like waiting tables. You don't have to give a shit about it, but you get your real estate license. Suddenly, like you have to concentrate and work on this thing that you despise.

So it's like I just very quickly realized, like, why I do that. And then I just went back to waiting tables. So, yeah. And did you get better at beats? Did the beats get better? I think so. Yeah. I mean, yeah, over a decade, I just kept like doing it and doing it.

And are you performing at all? Not at all. So you're not making a sense. What was your bottom? Well, oh man, a very clear bottom actually, which was, I lost this job. It was, it was another customer support job in dallas working which i assume they all are they're all that it's just a bunch of like nameless corporate business parks office park yeah just a little tan just a inoffensive waterfall

yep some stone seats guy comes around with sandwiches. Yeah. Can I get you anything? Yep. You know. Hell. Hell. Hell on earth. Yeah. Walked in one day and they were like, hey, come on over. Let's have a meeting.

We come have a meeting. We're letting you go right now. Security is outside. Pack your shit. That you were going to have a meeting or was it like, this is bad? There was no, I mean, nothing. No warning. Nothing. It was like, oh like we're having a

meeting discussing i don't know some bullshit yeah and they're like we're letting you go it was you exactly you're a sack of shit and you need to leave immediately so like security's standing over us i'm packing my shit i don't know what the fuck i'm gonna do but they gave us which is remarkable really for this kind of hourly gig they gave us two i think two months of severance so they're like we're gonna pay you for two months while you figure shit out so yeah at that point i basically had started making these videos i had transitioned from making like beats to having discovered reggie watts. Right. Our dear friend and. Mentor. Incredible innovator.

Yeah. Mentor. Grandfather. And yeah, basically he like just opened my eyes to looping and improvising. And he just blew my fucking mind. But it's so odd because it seems like you were so you're like brimming with it. I mean, I guess so, dude. It's like not even something that it weirdly it does combine like both of these things.

It combines the training and music with the theater. It's like a very much a blend of those. But it's not something I ever thought about. You know, it was like i just wanted to make music take myself seriously and shit and then i saw reggie doing his thing and i was like my god and then you realize that like looping really mirrors the process of making music like traditionally on logic or any daw software like that it's just much faster more sort of rudimentary but the the elements are the same basically yeah and you can just do it a lot faster so yeah i i saw him doing

that and i was like i must do something like this you know like i have to try and so yeah i got a looper and basically fucked around with it for a year while I was working this job, got let go. And then that's when I said, okay, I have two months. So I'm now going to see, and this was kind of at the end of, at this point,

I'm like 28. And I had given up probably half a dozen times. You know what I mean? Just like, it's time to call it one of those times is when i got my real estate license i was like it's i just i'm getting too old to like continue dreaming about this and i clearly don't have what it takes like i don't have the work ethic i don't have so i was like all right i have two months let's see if i can pay my rent by the end of the two months

if i can do that i'll keep trying if not that's it big boy job grow the fuck up yeah and so i went around dallas and like bothered bartenders for their bosses email and shit and sent them my little videos and got a friday gig at this place and then um basically doing the same shit i'm doing now and you would set up yeah because some of the tape some of the videos of you i call them tapes because i'm yeah i'm 77 years young uh some of these videos you look they look like fucking buffalo wild wings yeah i want to be in that girl's club i want to be in that girl's club i want to be in that girl like they're not venues they're not maybe they are but they don't look like venues they're not they're not venues it's a restaurant or it's uh yeah it's like a brunch

you're bothering people yes oh 100 you might as well be handing out flyers yeah like you're bothering people yes oh a hundred percent you might as well be handing out flyers yeah like you're it's not like it's like people are not like they're not there for you they are a hundred percent not there for me often do not want me to be there they would have preferred you try to sell them real estate yeah then you do what you were doing they're eating a fucking sandwich yeah they're trying to order like another beer and i'm like pussy pussy let me in i'm trying to fuck you know it's just not what did you think your first show was going to be what was your loose plan i i really didn't have much of one i mean i like i just i have never really had much of one it's sort of set the table up set the keyboard up make sure it sounds decent jesus is here and then

let's just let just roll don't forget about love over there we're just gonna fucking roll you know and it's like i would just use what i was thinking about that week if i'd seen a movie or i wanted to like rail on a director or whatever just what's happening at this table over here and it's just always been like very abrasive and often unpleasant but i think it's like there was something about it it really hasn't changed much i mean it's pretty much the same show it's there's a there's a thing in you that is pent up yeah yeah and you and it's like you can tell and it's it's like an expression of what everyone has pent up yeah yeah i think that's a good way of putting it's it's like an expression of what everyone has pent up yeah yeah i think that's

a good way of putting it and it oddly like you say reggie watts it reminds me more jack black then then not like you say reggie watts like you don't know what you're talking about but i'm saying like no no yeah when like when jack plays like the sax man on Fallon or even when he would scat in Tenacious D. Yeah. There was like this fearsome and it was kind of angry, but there was like a grandeur and a fearsomeness to it that I think you also are doing where it's like you just seem like I got to get it out. Yeah. So it's something like that. it's nice to hear i i love jack and it like spins the audience yeah the audience gets spun up into the into the fun of it right and it's they don't even really know what's happening yeah just that i don't really either you know that's sort of what it is yeah it's like actually someone told

me that the other night last night actually they were, we went to your show and we weren't sure if you were the main guy. Like, we thought you were the opener or something. We just weren't sure that you were supposed to be on stage. I couldn't believe this many people would come for this. To see this. I'm running around screaming at everyone. You know, it's just just like but that's exactly the reaction i think it's like once i did it once at some random it only has to work once exactly

then you probably just have to get in that spirit right right and sort of then you're fine tuning then you're like okay let me twist this dial a little this way like does this work this doesn't work and then you sort of yeah it's just like by trial and error you do it again and again and again i'm sure you know this do you are there shows that are significantly worse than others for sure are they getting less often yes i would say now yeah right that would kind of but i'm saying like you know all right so you don't you must have gotten a loop that wasn't you must have looped something that was a little fucked up oh yeah and people are like i'm not feeling like they hundred percent and you just like re is there

a reset yeah that's what i usually do now it's like i've learned that that and that people like they want to see that fuck up you know and like they want to see it acknowledged so i fuck up i'm like i don't fucking like this where that's it erase it we're starting again and that's just it you know it's like it's sloppy but it's it's interesting because it makes them they're kind of in the band with you yeah exactly where they're kind of like nah i'm not feeling it yeah they don't say that but it's like they get to be in the in like what do you play me another loop right right what else what do we do they get to be jay-z with timberland where it's like yeah yeah nah yeah whatever what else what else you got was there a period of like disinterest and rejection of what you were doing

not really i'm not talking about the 10 your entire 20s oh yeah Was there a period of disinterest and rejection of what you were doing? Not really. I'm not talking about your entire 20s. Oh, yeah. No, that. Yeah. I'm talking about once you started doing. Just a decade of trauma. Yeah.

Yeah. Selling real estate. We've all got it. Real estate. We've all got it. Hopefully. Yeah. So once you started posting videos, did they get traction fairly soon? Fairly. Yeah. Fairly. Fairly. Fair once you started posting videos, they all, did they get traction fairly soon?

Fairly. Yeah. Fairly. It was like, you know, it took, there were like a couple moments where it went from like nothing to really something.

And then from something to like, man, now we made, this could be a business, you know, there were like kind of two separate. I think I started making videos in like 2016 ish and and then started touring in 2018 so and so super long how much what was the first video

to get like 100 000 how the first video second video what yeah uh yeah yeah it would have been i mean i tried like maybe a dozen and then I scrapped them all and started doing a different thing. And from those, it started, you know, I would post some just to Reddit, to like the video subreddit. And one or two of those would go. And then, so those, you're talking maybe 20, 40,000 views, something like that. And then 2018, I'm starting to play these shows in dallas at the restaurants and shit i moved back to new york some of dallas's finest restaurants yeah that's right that's right congratulations that's why i brought you so much congratulations i'm one of the great restaurant

loopers residencies it's a big deal it's a big deal and i'm here to tell you yeah it's a very big deal um yeah i mean once i hit a wall there then i moved i i used to live in new york for a bit and then i moved back because i was like you know i i i got to this point where i was playing these residencies whatever you want to call it at these bars and restaurants and starting to fill them out and so then i was like let me try and see if i can do a hard ticket show at a venue no one no venue at dallas wanted in dallas wanted to do it wouldn't have it so i was like i'm gonna go back to new york matter you could have put the money up yourself or they just didn't want to have you they don't want to give you a night and risk it they just didn't want to give me a night yeah yeah so yeah so i moved to

new york and then somewhere in there facebook i was putting the videos up there at the same time and within a week those a selection three or four of those videos went from 20 30 000 views to like 5 million just like bang yeah and multiple and i didn't know what the fuck was going on then i started getting requests like come play here come right there and then so yeah then i signed with a booking agency and they wrangled it into like a very messy tour and so then i was working and that's basically been touring ever do you try to prepare for shows is it about clearing your mind or not clearing or having a little plan i it's i think yeah i like to have a

little seed it's like it's like if i can somewhat figure out just a basic even if it's a phrase or like um just a general thought uh to get the thrust underway right up top the show is much better off i have nothing else i basically go up i try to go up with like a thing is that usually the thing you open with yeah yeah and then you'll take the confidence of that and then we're and then start shitting on people's pants exactly exactly yeah making songs about how what they he doesn't deserve that girl etc etc right right and he doesn't and let me be clear yeah um okay so what do you think of that trajectory i mean it's a good it's a very lucky one you know i would say it's like very very fortunate i mean i know a lot of people who have grinded away for a lot longer and gotten not as far you know just the

way it is and like i think you have to be willing to acknowledge yes any of us who have gotten anywhere have worked hard and have something to offer we're interesting whatever but luck and timing and like just the fucking thing of like i grew up with parents who wanted to teach me have me learn piano yeah i didn't do that yeah you know what i i didn't fucking go put myself in an acting class there's some stuff about bill gates and steve wasiak and all those guys like yeah they lived in a in a in a town where the one computer in california was i don't even i know it's bill gates a few of them but it's like i yeah he's smart and did it but that's like that's just fortune yeah dude it's circumstantial it's yeah it's all it's a universe of things that coalesce to throw you into something good if you want to do it and if you're there at the right time.

And yeah, I think I just hit a lot of – obviously, I spent a long time trying to do it and not, but I just wasn't trying hard enough. You have – one of your blocks is overthinking your job. Oh, yeah. What does that mean? Well, I think it's when I'm overthinking, I think it mostly has to do with the death of the future of my career and how I've only been doing it professionally for six, seven years now, and so I'm not on solid enough ground, I think, to be confident. 10 years from now i will continue to capture people's attention and money and continue to be inspired by any form of this you know just like how the fuck am i going to keep this charade up

you know it's like i don't so it's a lot of thoughts like that is it well what i if i could make a suggestion just please save your money that's a big no one ever thinks of it save it okay yeah just save your money save save that's a yeah save your money and b branch out do other shit if you can compose compose like i am trying to do that yeah i am trying to do that because i'm terrified it has something to do with that yeah you know yeah there's ai we don't mean to talk about jesus christ but what you're doing is not aiable it's you get ai the song yeah you get ai the loop yeah you can't ai you in a robe you know what i mean and it's also it's actually funnier the older you get. You know what I mean?

Because I'm picturing you with like a man, like a fucking, that bun in the robe. It works still. Especially if it's. That is a funny thought. If it's silly. It's like, you're still like talking about fucking and desperation and dumb job shit just it will still work okay that's so i don't and i say that as a real piece of shit it's not but yeah i can tell you like no i can i can it works you could see it

yeah it still works yeah that's a huge relief yeah that's a huge relief uh it's nice to hear do you what what's the next thought if you're if you're like this isn't gonna work i should have x well you know i'm kind of in the process of like it's it's like you said like like um branching out and trying to make sure that no one's put you in anything no one's well i've had some cameos as myself right you're in uh the one with santino the yeah ricky stanecki the fuck out of bed bitch go and then i was in um 80 for brady with like jane fonda and anything that any movies that don't rhyme

yeah any non-rhyming films no No. Well, something to look for. 2025? You should stick to that theme. Just keep doing rhyming movies. You're like, does it rhyme? Then I'm not doing it. I'm out. I'm out.

Change the title. I don't give a fucking million dollars. The shit doesn't rhyme, honey. Goodbye. Make it rhyme. Call me when it rhymes. Yeah. Yeah, like, because A, you could be in a, you could be.

I would like to do that i mean i'm interested in getting back to acting a little bit you know i i've told my agents that and we've they've sent me some self-tapes and shit but it's more about i'd like to be on board with a director who thinks i'd be funny in this thing and is willing to just take a chance and put me in some shit it's funny because when you talk about going to acting school yeah there there's a director i believe his name is josh fox he directed a movie called gas land and he's in the movie it's a it's like a great documentary and he's made two of them but he's in the movie and he's got a lot of presence and i was like

why is this guy have like for a dray just has like a lot of stage presence and then of course he was he used to be an actor so what i'm saying is like with you it's like this guy's pretty good looking and has like charisma right for working at a buffalo wildlife harassing people with music i just want to come inside your tree right um so what i'm saying is like i that'll that'll probably take care of itself i hope so yeah it should be a good thing to leverage it's like you know it's like you use the good fortune yeah to continue some good fortune here and there now it's like a little easier to grab so i do that and then yeah i'm producing like traditionally now finally going back to producing some actual shit some like thought about in advance recorded with a band to tape songs so i've got a few of those one of them that

i'm like really happy with i think has potential as single material right um yeah so and is there a part of you that thinks like am i trying to capture lightning in a bottle meaning part of joy of it yes is watching the creation and people like the right yeah it's yeah i mean it's obviously not that you know i might the hope is that it just works on its own as like a dope song you know that with that is without i mean it's completely disconnected from it has a little bit of my it's kind of silly energy in it in a way but it's a straight ahead like song and it also like tenacious d made an album of their songs that i used to see them do live and they were oh yeah and i was always worried like it won't translate but they're bangers are banger it fucking works yeah dude if

it sounds good you know no one really cares um i'm glad i could disabuse you of the overthinking that's it's a huge help especially to hear from people who have been in it you know it's like just that it's gonna be all right it's you'll yeah you'll figure it out as a director i can use this like i can stand there right right say that like you have a lot of virtues did you have a point where you were like this is fucking over were you always kind of sailing and no i it's was over it's overall i mean patrice o'neill one time said you're not really a comedian until you think your career's over three different times oh jesus yeah like it's over after half bay came out cnn said dave chapelle's career is over jesus christ reported by the news this is they pronounced it dead oh my god on the news

wow that's just one but yeah like i this the special that just came out yeah is way more popular than the other ones wow and i thought i was plateauing and i was like am i gonna keep like i i'd said to somebody i was like i'm not gonna keep being overlooked oh man and then you just go oh great it's working yeah it fucking worked i it worked like it went amazing. It went from whatever. But it happens. I've been in doing it 30 years. So there's plateaus, and then you think this is it. And then for some point, it will be.

Right. But just not yet. I see. But it's never like a gimme. It's never easy. It's never like, oh, it's never easy it's never like oh yeah i'll show up i'll fucking bet right it's all and that's you got to stay alert as a performer you know you part of what's good about it is you do seem like it's there's something hectic about it for sure yeah but yeah yeah it's like i think the the worry is that it will, that, you know, you, you, you continue to interest people like less and less and less.

And then it's like, eventually you just fizzle out. But I think it's what you're saying is important that it's like, you have to actively effort towards continuing to make yourself interesting to people. Yeah. Like I, I did a bunch of, of i mean all the mental health shit i've done but like yeah but like i you know i i met i worked i changed my essence yeah do you dude you fucking did i saw blocks at i know he's alive he's alive anyone who sees alive is a friend for life so like dope and then this one is like i I'm a different essence. My essence is different.

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committing to one person what with your schedule and being a musician. Yeah. Everyone thought that it was going to be easy. Aren't you surprised? Yeah. I walk in the park with you. What's going on, Mark? What's happening? literally a decade i am in like a good healthy committed thing with a really excellent human being and it caught me by surprise and i was not looking for it act kind of actively rejecting that because i thought it's erica bad do it's a yeah we can announce it here erica come on out

come on yeah and she has one of her giant head things on we have to like move yeah yeah yeah um yeah but basically adjust i don't know i i think that it's made me realize that for a long time i think it's possible that i could have been capable of like loving someone but i believe that i was really afraid of what it does to me you know it's like i jump in very hard and at first i think that's okay but i think you have to learn to like live with someone reasonably you know what i mean i'm like be your own person and shit but i i've realized that i have a tendency to get overly obsessive involved put all of my energy into the person and i think i i it somewhere in the back of my mind i was aware of that and didn't want to flip that switch, you know? So it was like, had you done it in smaller doses, so to speak?

Yeah. Yeah. But, and with the wrong people, it's with the wrong people a decade prior, you know, and it was, it was that, and it was also just not right. But from then that moment on, then this the music thing started happening so that i'm touring and first of all it's just harder to do that um and then yeah i just very consciously verbally regularly kept it casual one time no more than three times you know this kind of thing where it's i do not develop an attachment and you would say up front yes somewhat up front within the first evening you know okay no no i'm

not saying like you like but don't don't say a word yeah no no before you tell me about your day all right well as somebody who's been had a similar approach now i have a great girlfriend and it's going yeah yeah that's right my question is do you say that you say to the to the woman that is interested and you're interested in her yeah how many of them understood and believe what you were saying percentage wise that i was a casual dude and that i wasn't didn't want anything beyond yeah oh i mean i think we all say it and then but some of our behavior leads them to believe that we like that's true the behavior of a guy who wants to be more connected to me that's yeah it's i mean i i understand that occasionally it was confusing probably you know it's like if i saw someone multiple times i do exhibit those qualities of like i'm being kind and considerate and doing

things and you know it's like these are just things but i think i think of it as i'm being kind and we've already established that i don't you know so but um the great philosopher ali wong once said clarity is kindness which i agree with the problem is it's hard to people you know if it's good it's a good connection exactly and and you slept with them right it's just a very hard thing to like i feel like it's next to impossible yeah you know to like have that tenderness with someone and see them multiple times and for feelings not to develop in some way for one of you, you know, it's like me, I was very good at like, I already know I, this is not going to last. So like, I'm already detached. I'm not there. Yeah. I'm enjoying the fantasy of being tender with somebody with the knowledge

that I will never see them again. You know, that sort of thing. Yeah. And I would say that in a much nicer way, you know, in a much more sort of considerate way. But to that effect, yeah, I would say that. But it turns out. You would say, it's not going to happen, baby. Yeah.

Listen to me. This thing ain't going to work out. All take a walk yeah that's that's the night that was your nice that's the nice one yeah yeah it's just it's like of course of course we're capable of big beautiful life beautiful, life-affirming love. You just have to be, and also it took encountering someone who really made me want to do that. In some ways, it's like you're not into it until you are. I guess it was that too, you know? Because I didn't even think about it with her,

with my girlfriend. I just, I met her and we had this date that just blew my mind i was like i just want to see her again yeah and then i want to see her again and i want to see her again and and then you're just yeah i don't know the thing that me and my girlfriend talk about is it has to be self-interest it has to be i i want to see you again yeah i'm not doing it as a favor to you right i'm not doing it because i because we slept together and i owe you i'm doing it because it's better to be with you than by myself man or it's awfully close yeah Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, but it, we just get caught up in all these other reasons. I think that's a really lovely way of thinking about it.

Yeah. You're right. It's, it's selfish. Yeah. Like I want it. No, I I'm doing, I'm here for me. Yeah. I'm giving a fuck about you.

Right. Best of luck. You figure you out. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to be here for me. I don't, I'm not, I i'm not doing i'm not going on vacation i'm not taking you on vacation right we're going i'm excited to go on vacation with you yeah but

it it's because of the sex and because it's social shit it's very hard to decouple obligation and shit and what are they going to say and it's like no i just i'd fuck with you and i want to that's it's so simple once it works like once once it clicks it's like it is automatic it's like reflex i'm not i don't i haven't thought about it really once it's just like just and what's the love what are the how long has it been eight months and what are like sort of the features of it um well she lives here i live in new york um but she is from brooklyn and so she's back and forth i'm back and forth kind of works in that way yeah um i'm here i would say more often because of her but it's also been good business and the the features really i mean personally are she is every bit as um big a personality and her own person and like this a bull like you know she is perfect in a room she is engaging i fuck me you know it's

like it's just she is her with or without me yeah and that is hyper attractive to me she doesn't need your permission no and doesn't want it and like um wants by the way and doesn't have it and does yeah see i've forbidden her to leave the apartment and you've taken her out of parties that's right and said i will not stand for another minute of this she says come on i said it's me or nothing you should i'll point to you when it's your time to talk yeah yeah but yeah it's just someone who you know is like very much an equal and like it is just it's just independent i yeah that's what i need because like i am that too yeah and yeah anyway just i thought that that you know the tendency for myself to sort of fall into these weird kind of um it kind of ties

into one of my other blocks that i sent you which is people pleasing which is something that i've looked at recently in this relationship which is like this need that i have to make sure that everything's okay and in doing so i'm not really being like honest or like doing things that I really want to do in the interest of like, just making sure that everything's fine and taking care of everything too, because I haven't had a relationship in 10 years. You know, it's like, I'm terrified that if anything goes wrong, it'll fall apart and i'll lose this magical thing so i so i was really busying myself for the first six months or so with like really making sure that everything was just perfect like a dance recital yeah and she didn't like that eventually we had

this talk and where you know she's like i don want the, you, the person you are without me with me, like just do your thing. It's more attractive to me when you fuck off and do your thing. It was like, that's what I like. Don't bother. You know, she's like, it's, and it, I thought about it and I was like, man, it's something about myself that I thought I had fixed long ago in my friendships. I was a real people pleaser to a problematic degree where it was like, what was your low? I don't know if I can think of a specific one, but it was basically like really to the detriment of my happiness. I doing things for friends i would like steal money from my parents to go do things with friends because i wanted to say yes to them you know yeah that kind of shit where it's like i'm doing something i inherently know is wrong because i have to i have to be a guy that can do it i can't disappoint these people exactly exactly so that i went through my shit with that and like worked on it and fixed it for the most part

and then i'm here in this relationship i'm like i'm doing this again i am fucking doing this again it's like this behavior hasn't surfaced in years. And now here I am, like I'm back in my fucking 21, like doing this bullshit. And it just took her kind of pointing it out and me thinking about it and therapizing about it and all this shit to realize like, wow, I really can just take a deep breath and like live my life and also be in love

with somebody and like that's the healthy version you know yeah it was a real revelation it was like a real it is hard to believe though yeah it's hard to believe i remember having a girlfriend at one point i go so you're not mad at me for anything and she was like no why would an adult woman be mad at a boyfriend all the time i was like i don't know but it keeps happening wow and so now it's it you do have to make a concerted effort to do this self-interested thing yeah right right and it is it runs counter to romance it runs counter to uh uh uh you know masculine virtue and it runs counter to to everything chivalry all that shit and but you have to go like no i i if i don't the relationship will end

if you don't do it it's a hundred percent that and you don't it's hard to realize it but it's like no you even like with my girlfriend like no i have to approach this and say like i can't get together tonight yeah right or i don't want to get together yes and it's like you don't want yeah and it's like or whatever you, however you want me to couch this. Like, yes, we're individuals. I'm a pretty lonery guy. Yeah. And acknowledging that part of yourself.

It's hard. It's scary. That is, it's fascinating. I'm glad to hear you say all of that. Because, yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah, it's something that I something that i've been thinking out and i think yes having to make a concerted effort i picture you just being in a shitty apartment in dallas for years that's very true by yourself yeah dude like that robe wasn't a choice that wasn't like uh-huh what should i wear on stage it's like no what you were it's just that's

the other thing it's appealing about it's like you're just watching a guy in his it looks like you're in your room right right that's the appeal often i am yeah you know that's the guy right on stage right yeah but it's like if you were going to do a larger show you could just make the stage the production design a room yeah true true we did that actually last year at coachella we did they reproduced my apartment yeah on stage exactly what it was yeah that's like what it what so so yeah like what was the uh what was the sort of impetus for the discussion with the girlfriend about the about um i think it was just like one of those things where she was like i'm i'm feeling weird about like i just like feel weird about where we're at you know just feels like everything is okay all the time but it's not real do you wear it

is it on you if you're dissatisfied if you feel like you're self-sacrificing or abandoning yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Could a loved one tell? Yes, I probably, you know, yeah,

probably. I think I probably hide it fairly well, but she happens to be extraordinarily perceptive. And I think it's just any time there's this tiniest thing and I'm not acknowledging or whatever. She's like, the fuck is going on you know yeah so yeah she just said something to that effect and and then we just kind of spent the whole day apart and when i i went and thought and was just kind of running through shit and then realized i was like man i am i am doing this exact thing that was so destructive to like my friendships my sense of self-worth because you feel like they owed you if you had done a bunch of stuff did you

subtly feel like well why don't they ever do shit for me because that would happen to me to where i would resent them for not matching my will my contribution right we never agreed to that contribution yeah exactly it's all in your head yeah i think yeah yeah maybe it's like what it was for me but for me it's like i'm you know i would be cementing the guarantee of um me being perceived as a good solid dude it's yes everything is perfect about this you know what it's like i can i'll i'll i'll i'm getting rid of the boyfriend the shit out of you right watch yeah watch me boy where are you gonna be right yeah i'm getting rid of the boyfriend oh dude and you're it's like i don't but i don't like it no i don't like it suffocating

yes oh don't suffocating myself do that yeah exactly oh you want me to suffocate oh yeah i got you i got that and she doesn't right right it's just this this thing of you think she does yeah it's dude totally totally and once i once i just unraveled that little piece of it, then I could think of it in the context of all the other shit in my past and the way. And then I was like, oh man, that's, that's it. Like, I just need to fucking chill. Really? Is it? It's like chill and continue to do all the things i've been doing for the last 10 years for myself there's just this other person who i dig meet her after my life meet her after after we'll fucking hang out you'll you won't have the obligate you won't have the resentment of the unmet obligation and all that shit it's like yeah for the last whatever month or side i don't know how long it's been since we had that talk but yeah it's been it's just been continually better in that way and it's just yeah it feels and i feel more this like like this burden has been lifted

somewhat and i'm allow like allowing myself just to be whatever the fuck grumpy leave you know all this shit that i would do whatever you want don't cheat yeah fuck that but pretty much do whatever you want you know what i mean like or or uh meet your own needs meet have your needs whatever meet your needs but don't cheat don't that's the that's where i do that's the one thing yeah uh unless you have to yeah this is interesting didn't see it coming work ethic oh yeah i would have thought you were more driven because it says you're lazy here i am i i think i am i i have been told i'm not but i disagree i disagree. You're with you all the time. You probably have a better idea. Yeah, I think so.

You know, I've gotten good at this one thing. I can do it pretty reliably. You know, I can set my shit up and play a good show. Now, baseline, it's good. Sometimes it's really good. Sometimes it's like a little less good, but it's always fine. is really good sometimes it's like a little less good but it's always it's always fine and it's i think also has to do with comparing what i'm doing versus what so many other musicians entertainers performers in my position are are doing the level of work that they're putting in the podcast they're going on i this is the first podcast i haven't done a

podcast in fucking i don't know how long it's just i don't have the press schedule i'm not doing the twice daily posts with the ad matt and this and the i have someone managing my message i don't have any of that shit and i i would say i definitely prioritize my leisure my life my enjoying the breeze significantly more than i do my work you know and i am only working really when i absolutely have to and then when the pressure is really on have to and then when the pressure is really on i'll get some shit done but then and only then and it's just i just don't think i have a really intense um work ethic like a lot of people in in this business do you know what are your thoughts on that i was just telling somebody, I think a lot of the sort of the secret sauce of people, performers and anyone who moves out here to do be in showbiz. Yeah.

Even be on internet showbiz. Yeah. Status. You want some status. I want more status. And so I think you got, you were low status for a decade yeah and then you got a bunch of status right people recognize you people you get respect you get beloved let me take a photo right it's pretty good yeah and so i i don't i'm not mad at people stopping to smell the breeze.

Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I have an idea of the kind of money you make on the road. Yeah. I think there are, I don't think like sort of tactical ambition would serve you. And you probably feel the same way or go go back and forth like yeah i just think it would make me unhappy yeah yeah and part of your thing is being joyful yeah yeah have to be in that place for it to work i think yeah yeah and it's also this thing of i i this is another component i think which is something i think about a lot which is i think that a lot of people in

this business do have this possibly unhealthy ambition to constantly be like constantly one up constantly be better than the other dude constantly constantly make it to the number one. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom. And you're stepping on heads and you're ignoring other things. And it's all to do this. And I just I it doesn't I don't have it in me. You know, it's like that's why I say so fortunate to get even anywhere close to where I am, where I'm playing the kind of venues I'm playing. It's insane because it was not by design. It was not a really a product of this like crazy ambition. allowed me to get there kind of and it sort of unfolded that way but it wasn't like okay by you know 2021 i'm going to be playing 5 000 cap venues and then by 2022 we're going to be none of that shit you didn't even know what cap was i didn't know i'd never i i didn't know anything about then yeah that's right the and i kind of also wouldn't mind keeping it kind of right here because

any higher or much higher i would say and then your life really starts your public life probably really starts shifting yeah and you're not able to do the same things and you're not able to take a walk and go read a fucking book somewhere or whatever. That stuff is hyper important to me. And I know that if I get like more famous and shit, that that you get from showbiz success and adulation. Right. And you go like, convert it into love. That's love.

It's not. And you just, maybe this time. Yeah. Make it work. And it's not. It just isn't. Yeah. yeah make it work it's not it just isn't yeah uh but i but the if i were you and like you know somebody somebody called for for uh for like we need you to do this thing and it's just

gonna be like i gotta be joyful baby like it really is important yeah i. I don't, I don't, you're not, it's like, I gotta be, it's got the part of the, your appeal is spiritual. Yeah. Right. So you have to protect it. Yeah.

You can tell it was in, in, uh, not involuntary, but like you were forced to make plans or yeah. Just like, I don't know. I was in a robe yeah i was

basically like at home alone and i'll go around yeah i'll play these shows oh the shows are doing well okay we'll do bigger venues sure let's do bigger venues you know it's sort of that yeah but i can't imagine you getting off stage and be like there are only 4 000 people in it yeah what the fuck are we doing fill it out next time yeah fill it out yeah what there was an error no there was an area in the back yeah no that's for safety i don't care no no more safety let's also though i don't want to pretend like i don't care you know it's like of course not we all what what are we in this for we're insecure little yes sluts that need our validation.

We all need it. We wouldn't be in front of cameras begging for it if we didn't. And that's just the reality. So it's like, yeah, obviously, I like seeing a packed house. It's nice to see. I flew all the way here.

A little more promo. Yeah, but I think that there is something to be said for not honoring your process but just like it's pretty it's not it's working so there's no point in forcing it uh you know like let's take this up to the next level next level yeah that's just let it happen let it be what the fuck it is i don't know i guess it's just this kind of thing of like yeah i i want a future i i do want it to be sustainable but i also don't want to like kill myself doing that yeah so it's like a little bit of both it's like i don't i will never reach the heights that i think i potentially could if i had a different sort of state of mind about this

and i feel like if i if i was different if i thought differently about it i could probably really pump it up but it's just not me yeah i would i would suggest sticking with like protect it if you can't not to the point that you're fucking yourself but right right right now the last block resisting advice oh man so you're not you're not gonna do what i'm telling you yeah i'm gonna walk out of here you've told you've you've you've asked me for advice and i've i have i have and you and i've and you've you've done it i think that's true yes Yes, I have. What is, is that just like some punk rock shit? If I'm looking for it, I want it.

Got it. But if I'm given it sort of offhandedly. Yeah, unsolicited. It triggers this awful reaction that I don't like. I immediately reject it. It i i i hate it now and i reject do it exactly right it's like i actively do not want to do what you just told you should watch this thing i don't not gonna fucking watch it so you know it's just and oh here you go yeah you'll think this is funny i i will go to my grave because you said that i will never think it's funny watch i'm never gonna watch it i'm not watching it i'm not i don't have to do shit dude it's a disease it's a disease it's something that i really need to

work on but i know where it comes from it and it comes from my dad who when he was with us um and uh alive or at home yeah alive um he very loving i mean i would say in most respects an incredible father but relentlessly wanted me to achieve and be a success and gave me endless endless advice suggestions sit downs point pointing me to this and that you should did he have experience in show but like no but he definitely went from nothing to you know success so at what fashion and and and it was you know clawing his way into it it was like you know the man i mean work ethic nuts you know terrible childhood but made something of himself that whole thing and so you know to him very highly values success yeah in that that metric of success and and wanted it for me in a whole in a loving way not like my son will be the best but just i want you to be and he was doing it and but it the way it came out was in these endless fucking and i'm a teenager

i don't want to fucking sit down and listen to what i should be doing i don't want to do that you know and so it's these this and it just was fucking endless you know and so now years years of this fucking torture have rooted their way into your brain stem and now anytime you are suggested something or or or say you know hey you should really try i don't want to hear it you know it's like that's the reaction i don't fucking want to hear it and i don't know how to something i should work on in therapy actually is is how do you feel like you're saying no to good ideas possibly sometimes yeah sometimes i think i've gotten maybe a little better at just trying to recognize if there's something in there that I actually might like and maybe I'll take it in secret. It's really overwhelmingly the energy is like, no, no, no.

It's funny because I have a few different angles. Oh, really? Well, I totally get that and you also want because you it's kind of like i want the scalp yes yes i want i want to have been the one i want to be the one who yeah right and not even if you're in a partnership like when i write with people yeah i genuinely don't think i'm like elbowing oh okay well that's good but i it's got to be an interesting thing like coming up with like a singular idea between two people yeah you just have i mean me and dave had an agreement to never

say who wrote what that's it it's a shared because you have because people ask for the wrong reason oh they're not asking because oh so that i may respect both of you right they're asking so they can just discount one of you so it's like literally when we're writing half-baked i was like no we don't say you wrote what uh and people ask me all i'm like that it's just we wrote it yep we we came up with an occasion we can say the other one wrote it but like generally generally the rule is like don't say which i think is about the only way it can work but but i've also and i and i give unsolicited pitches the reason i know david in the first place is because i just like work in the door to comedy club and pitch jokes and yeah i'm in a bunch of people and he was like oh he was literally like fuck oh so i'm so and i so and i want people to pitch me jokes

but they almost never work but people i still like but you enjoy receiving them i if you can help me help me see that is i i'm i really need to be better the that. Because the thing about it, Mark, is you're getting the credit. Yeah, right. And here's the other sick thing that the brain does. In about a week, you're going to think it was your idea. Because I've seen it. I've seen it. It's happened to me where I've been like, and I've done it to other people. Oh, wow.

And then they go, and I was like, and then I have to remember like a detective flashback. Like, oh yeah, that was your idea. It's such a weird, we're so weirdly possessive about shit. Yeah. And I don't, you know, I think it's also, it's even more abstract. I think probably you're right in some way. It's about this like, well, I want to have been the creator of the stuff that I'm doing. I'm an auteur.

I did it from the bedroom to this and it's been my thing. And so I just like to do it my way. Yeah. But it's deeper than that. It's more abstract. It's just like a pit of the stomach rejection. It has no basis in logic. I think it's like a completely emotional.

Does it feel like pressure to you you to be taking someone's no for someone to say you should x when your dad would pitch like why don't you whatever the pitches were yeah did it feel like pressure put pressure from your dad. For sure. Yeah. Like now I'm expected to X. Right. You know? And so with him, you know, I, it eventually I was just, I would just cut him off immediately. I was like, no, I don't know. I don't want to do that.

Right. Because I'm doing this. Yeah. You know, like a little bitch. And, but, but, you know, now know now with with with people who do it people close to me or whatever and it's even as silly as people even just like coming up with silly ideas i just noticed that i'm like my very first the initial reaction is i don't i don't want to hear this which is crazy because like people come up with amazing

i like when people pitch jokes uh a tag for one of my jokes oh but don't pitch me a joke that the in fact here's a good example of somebody so that joke about uh the nra military showdown yeah in blocks promise there's still people now hoarding weapons thinking that at some point they may need to take on the American military and they think they have a shot, right? And look, maybe they're right, which is

why I'm proposing we test their theory and once a year have a head-to-head showdown. I call Chappelle. I go, has someone done that joke? And he goes, you pitched me that joke in 1993. Really? Oh, shit.

So it's just no one wants to take a whole joke. Wow. But I'll take a, help me with my thing, but I don't want to do your whole thing. That's, you know, I kind of in the same way because it's like if there's a good foundation that i've already sort of figured out i am willing to get pieces i'm willing to like improve it if people say something i'm like that's good that's good because i'm safe in the thing that like the foundation of it is already my thing and whatever but that's it's so it's so fucking dumb it's so dumb it's just uh it's self-defeating yeah it is it's like you could be enriching yourself with so much other shit yeah and instead the the thought is just to like act just push it away you know the funny the flip side is the

anger i feel when someone pitches a joke i do it and it doesn't work oh shit i'm gonna fucking kill them they tricked me pretty well it's like bye it's better it's a good system it's a good channel to have open that you can solicit jokes from people and have them work or not um what have you done anything to get better with any of this therapy medication you know what i have not tackled this yet in therapy well no to get better with any of this therapy medication you know what i have not tackled this yet in therapy well no i'm talking about any of these issues oh oh oh yeah i'm yeah many of them it's like the work ethic thing i've sort of made peace with um it's just something i notice about myself but it's like i kind of have made peace with the fact that like i i probably

will never reach the heights that i potentially could because i don't really i'm not interested in that kind of pursuit you know that like dogged yeah you it's also like there's a i think there's an appropriate but you kind of know when you're like all right this is good yeah yeah exactly i feel kind of that and you're not squandering it necessarily it's just like i don't know i just i don't think people know what cap size you're playing yeah right that's true audiences don't know i go i don't know maybe go oh that's a big whatever right if that they just go people house parking exactly give a shit how much you're making have you announced the dates that people don't even know like can i do i have to get them on stubhub like you tour you know it's like exactly or the other thing yeah yeah um all right well dude it was really good talking to you

likewise dude very i felt very connected yeah me too it was great lovely and thank you for the advice i have a song idea oh you do yeah i'll just whatever i won't leave that at least that