Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Margaret Cho

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Margaret Cho ('Cho Dependent', 'Notorious C.H.O.', 'I'm The One That I Want' 'All-American Girl' & much more) about the things that make her feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how she is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 1:14 Finding Herself 3:24 Self-Created Problems 4:54 Appealing to Outsiders 6:57 Relationships 17:26 Sponsor: BetterHelp 19:13 Sponsor: The Perfect Jean 21:17 Germaphobe 28:14 Self-esteem  32:04 Drinking, Drugs & Sobriety 44:42 Sponsor: Rocket Money 46:07 Sponsor: HelloFresh 47:58 Depression 55:07 Fear of Intimacy 1:07:08 Insomnia  1:10:38 Imposter Syndrome  ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Bacardi. It's trade dress and the bat device are trademarks of Bacardi and Company Limited. Rum 40% alcohol by volume. Hi, it's me, Neil Brennan. This is the Blocks Podcast. We talk about what makes people feel like something's wrong with them, and then they reveal their inner life, and then you get to compare it to your inner life. And people like it. you get to compare it to your inner life and people like it today's guest is a great comedian uh who i probably i don't know when we met maybe the early 2000s i was aware of you in the early 90s you weren't you on an episode of arsenia with dave chappelle ellen degeneres and mark curry Arsenio with Dave Chappelle, Ellen DeGeneres, and Mark Curry. Yes. I remember that.

Yes. And she's a real, all the words now are just like, we're old. You're a trailblazer. Thank you for agreeing with me. It's true. It's just like you are. It's Margaret Cho, everybody. Nice to see you.

Nice to see you. Nice to see you. You are a very, in my estimation, a very original person. And there's not a lot of people like you. The thing I've always wondered was like, was it easy to be that? Was it, a lot of people, it's just involuntary. Like, I can't help it. This is who I am. Did you have to like find your actual self i think so to some degree kind of when i was starting doing comedy in the 80s there was no asian comedians

so there was always this concern of well should i do comedy about being asian it seems obvious but is that something that i should do or should I lean out to it? Everything that was happening was all about observational comedy, which is somewhat mathematical, is somewhat identity-less. You wanted to see if your ability could be judged outside your identity. Then I was like, maybe I should just not talk about it at all. But then that was weird too. And you feel like there were a lot of identity comedians.

It was like identity or observational. Those are the two options. Yes. And then identity was diluted too because all of the really popular people were character comedians like Bobcat Goldthwait and to some extent Paula Poundstone, who is my absolute favorite.

She's very funny. She's very funny. But in a way, a kind of very funny, but in a way, a kind of a character comedian, in a way, because she comes and presents as somebody very unique, so unique that this has got to be a character, but she's actually like that. Yeah.

Well, that's what I was going to say. Like, is she doing a character? Because I don't, I'm like, I thought, I kind of think she's like that, but at the same time, I'm like, could she be like, yeah. She's like that, but it also is so unique that it could present as a character. So identity was formed in character. So character comics like Emo Phillips and Judy Tenuto were the gold standard at the time.

If you think about what's really popular. That and then Seinfeld on the other side and Gary Shandling on the other side. Right. Were you aware that you were making this decision or were you just like oh i just have this new bit and i'm gonna do it yeah so i wasn't i wasn't sure like where i should go and then you have to think ultimately i just have to write jokes and whatever lands lance so then it was just about doing a bunch of jokes and seeing what was funny. And how has it been to be you? Pretty cool.

Pretty cool. Although... I'm not even saying like in career. I mean like in life. Well, pretty cool. But I've had my own problems, you know, that I've self-created. All of my problems really are totally made up by myself. Self-generated.

Yeah. are totally made up by myself. Self-generated. Yeah. Like I have had it pretty easy when it comes to like career and work. And in my mind, I've had it pretty easy. Did you always think that? Yeah, because I was always able to just make a living.

Yeah, let me clarify. So you probably started, you're a full-time comedian in 89, 90? 89, yeah. 88, 89, yeah. And then you got a sitcom. so there's like a little money. Yeah. And then you were sort of like, I had a sitcom.

That was like your identity for like a year. And then it was like too Asian. Or not Asian enough. Or not Asian enough, you're right. Or then they tried to sort of make it like a Friends style, you you know gen x kind of comedy and which worked for ellen show yeah that really worked for them and we were in the same you know lot and we were in the same air like arena pretty much you know the same network so um but that didn't work for us and um there were no uh roles for asian americans really. I couldn't do martial arts at all.

So I couldn't get any of those Power Rangers jobs. Huge mistake. Sad. I wish I had the ability to do any of that stuff. And so I was just doing comedy. But comedy paid off. I really loved it. And like I said before we started rolling,

it's like Margaret was the first person, or one of the early people that i was aware of like you figured out who liked you and you serviced those people and it was young women gay dudes and i'm sure i'm forgetting lots of i'm not like that's it but i'm saying like chiefly that lots of different well it's lots of different people it's anybody sort of who feels outside right an outsider it's a way to bring together people who feel like they don't fit in which is actually everyone too so sometimes audience the demographics can surprise me as well like it's skews like younger and older than i realize so i love that it's really kind of become much more broad i did a show in boston and i was looking at the camera on the entrance and it looked i wouldn't have guessed that anyone was there to see me like when i saw them on the street i've been like he's definitely not coming to my it looked like january 6th it was so many fat white dudes i could i was astounded by it um but uh but thanks fat white dudes i appreciate it um

and and then also like the people i would have thought like the sort of more marginalized people which is like great also so and comedy fans like that's that's a new era too of like people who really are uh very um savvy savvy and purposeful in their love of comedy and then they really curate these incredible uh interests and of cults around comedians and you can also see if you live in most major cities you can see a very good comedian every month if not every week oh yeah yeah um so you felt like the career stuff was going good and then personally like even personally it never my my my uh tangential dealings with you seem like you weren't doing things normally is that would you agree yes and what was that like was it just finding your way?

I know relationships, you've tried like a few different approaches. Am I making that up? Yeah. So I've had a number of relationships, all of them terrible. And every time I've tried to connect with another human being in a romantic way, it's always been terrible. And so now I realize I'm not going to do that anymore. Like I just have pulled that part of my life out. So there's nothing like that happening

anymore. Can you walk us through some of the different approaches? So I was married and I was a polyamorous in my marriage, which actually kind of worked for a long time until it really didn't. in my marriage, which actually kind of worked for a long time until it really didn't. But it was always this thing of trying to make something work when it really wasn't going to work because the person I was with was incredibly jealous. So it's so hard to- You knew that ahead of time? Yeah. And what did he say? Like, I can deal with it? Well, he could deal with it when he would have other partners but he couldn't deal with it when i would yeah and we tried to make it work for like 12

years and it just didn't you know it was unfortunate because we were well matched we got along really well and he was a great person but the the um i guess the mission statement of the marriage was false we could not make polyamory work. Were there ever ones where like he was like, OK, I'm not jealous. I don't know why this one doesn't bother me. It would all bother him. So it was too bad because we really tried and he really tried. But it was just like we can't make something work just on a theory that this is going to happen.

Well, yeah, if you can't physically do it, if your emotions aren't calibrated to be okay with it. Yeah. Here's my question for anyone who's done polyamory. What do you do when you know the person is somewhere sleeping with another person? Like, how can you go to the gym? What can you do? You can do anything else. You can go on another date.

You can go do something else. Oh, right. Yeah, but that feels like retaliatory yeah that's true i think it really just is about um i don't know like having your own life that can compartmentalize well and you could also do things together as a polycule which polycule i enjoy tell us more what is that a polycule, which I enjoy. Polycule. Tell us more. What is that? A polycule is a unit of relationships evolving around, revolving and evolving around a primary polyamorous relationship. So you have your primary partner and then you have other partners who are satellites. when you can all come together in a kind of a, like a softball team or a family reunion, some kind of unit, bowling, whatever, that's actually great. And so we had a polycule of people with his partners, but he could never include one of mine because it was just too

threatening. So it would be you and him and then another person, one other woman. Yes, that worked well. You and her would speak for most of the time most of the time and it was great i actually really loved our polycule like that was actually probably of all the relationships that was the most successful when we had uh an extra person to because we didn't have children so that was sort of like oh we have when we and she was 19 no but she was she was great and so i really loved her and i'm still i'm still very fond of her today it's weird because that might be as the more natural that's the connected relationship like you can interact and you guys have this shared thing and she doesn't want them. No.

And you do, but are happy to share. Yeah. And we had the best time. Vacations? No vacations, but just lots of times at home, watching movies, going out to see movies, going and having meals, everything like that. Would you ever farm out sex with him like a chore like go go jerk him off no but i'm very childish it would be um implied you know like in implied like

it was it was great like you'd be like i gotta go to the post office and then you you'd assume something would happen like well like roommates in a weird way it was really roommates it was really roommates and my home was is really large so it could accommodate things that were happening in other rooms that you would just not even know which is good would you get a pang of jealousy which was interesting or you would just be like well no people are sexual and they want to have multiple partners. Yeah, I wasn't. I'm not. I have big.

I realized that I've become very jealous as I've gotten older. Fascinating. Later life. But that seems like the opposite of most. Yeah. Because I've gone the total other way. Now I'm super jealous. But then now I'm not having anything.

So it doesn't matter. Why are you jealous now, do you think? I think now for something intimate to happen, it's got to be, it's so important to me to want to. Also, as I've gotten older, my desire for sex has completely gone away. And so now I have to look to why do i even want sex or intimacy in the first place like what does that even mean like it's weird i think my relationship to sexuality has really shifted i'm really interested in that because if you it's like who how much are we defined by that? So much.

And then once it's taken away, you kind of go, what is, what am I, what are my interests? Right. That's why I like when like women in their fifties start gardening more and they like dress differently. Yes.

Is that a woman's natural? Is that her natural state? Yeah. Or is that just like her natural state? It's whatever she's experiencing chemically. I think that's the natural state for me is that just like uh her natural state it's whatever she's experiencing chemically i think that the natural state for me is gardening i love gardening that's so funny i love my garden i love my animals i love uh my home i love the way that my life is and it does not include um necessarily anything romantic but it's also also a newish place to be because I've been in romantic relationships for my entire adult life. So it's strange to navigate now of like, oh,

purposely not doing that. How are you with loneliness? And how much of that was a male connection any connection like it's interesting to to parse this stuff of like what was that did i want was i just horny was what is the compulsion to be with another person it is compulsion it's compulsory heterosexuality that was impressed on me as a from childhood on like i wasn't complete without a relationship whether that was impressed on me from childhood on. Like I wasn't complete without a relationship, whether that was with a man or a woman. It was just like I was not complete without some kind of romantic relationship happening somewhere.

So in compulsory, it's more compulsory heterosexual. So comp het. And you think it's more heterosexual? It's more compulsory heterosexual. So compact. And you think it's more heterosexual? It's more heteronormative. It's more like you've got to, your biological clock is ticking. You've got to get with somebody quickly.

When did you realize you didn't want kids? Or did you realize? Oh, I realized early on, but I also later on had an extinction burst of like, oh, maybe I should do this in my 40s. I like, oh, maybe I should do this in my 40s. I thought, oh, maybe I should do this. But then I realized, oh, that's not for me. How long did that last?

Just a few months. Great. Did you do anything crazy? No. You have a couple of websites you would go and look and eggs and stuff. And do you think that compulsory, there are times where i think there's a lot of downside to it like there's a lot of compared to you at at 25 years ago versus now which person is happier more content and because it's this it's this drive that you don't even

like why do i have this yeah and then now you can sort of think clearly and do you think this person or what i would consider thinking clearly although it's just different chemicals it's just different hormones yeah it's just all hormonal it's so weird how we're just a weird chemical set like chemistry experiment happening happening all the time. And we think it's our personality. Yeah. And we think it's our destiny. Yeah.

But it's just a bunch of weird chemical reactions. Yeah. And I say that not even being nihilistic about it. I'm not like, man, this is just chemicals. It's a good realization to have. Yeah. Where you realize like, no, this is temporary. Where you realize like, no, this isn't, this is temporary.

And if I ride it out, you can kind of overcome anything. Totally. Are there points in your life where you wish you had that sort of clarity? Or is it like, yeah, it's just what I was going through? I wish I had that kind of clarity back then. then that I could have like uh really not been in so much of a hurry to be married or be in a relationship or endure things that weren't right you know so I think um really now I'm much happier than I was then yeah because it is you want stuff that you don't even know why you want it yeah and you're in a hurry such a yeah it's such a you're in a hurry like thinking about when you say it was in a hurry yeah you did have more of a frantic energy but it was like not frantic in an off-putting way

but just like well like an urgency engaged yeah like it's an urgency to i want to get to the next thing i want to get to the next thing what's the next thing you know this thing of the next thing will make me happy when i get this i'll be happy yeah that did any of it work no no no matter what you're grateful for the money in the house and all that stuff oh the best yeah the best i that's the doubt that's the weird part about it's like but at the same time this is great and now i can be calm with all these trappings that I got from being a frantic, crazy person. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, you know how the whole premise of this show is people talking about what makes them feel like something's wrong with them? And then I act as a therapist? Let's honest that's what's happening here if you would like to sort of be on blocks but

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Still love what you're about. Okay? They're stretchy. They make my ass look legitimately good. I don't have the best ass, but I'm working on it, and it's something that I'm a little bit proud of if you want to know the truth. There.'t have the best ass, but I'm working on it. And it's something that I'm a little bit proud of. If you want to know the truth there, there's the truth. It's finally time to stop crushing your balls in uncomfortable jeans by going to the perfect gene.nyc. My listeners get 15% off your first order plus free shipping, free returns and free exchanges. when you use code neil15 at checkout that's 15 off for new customers at the

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And I your dog like my hand. Yes. So it's pretty cool. I'm a little more relaxed today about it. Sometimes I get really freaked out. Tell me. Like if you're, you know, during COVID, I was so while wiping down my groceries, like one of those, I was so paranoid and so freaked out. Like it just everything was alive with bacteria and viruses. And I was so nervous to even just take a breath, you know, anywhere.

I was so scared. I think, you know, and I still i haven't gotten it covid at all yet i'm like it's so weird but i think part of my my just crazy fear around it i've been a lot more relaxed in the last few months but my germophobia would really keep what's funny is there are people that won't get it like they're you're genetically predisposed to not get i'm sure you've looked it up i'm sure you've looked it all up I'm sure you've looked it all up. Yeah. But was that always? Did you always have that? I think it's something that just was unlocked during the pandemic,

but it always kind of had been there. Like it's a little bit, I was not as bad OCD as some people, but I know that like there's just a phobia of things that I have around just like germs and, and whatever, like, and it's very, uh, it also stems like from working a lot around, um, people who are unhoused. So I did a lot of work with the unhoused in the early part of like the 2010s, 11th, 12th, that time. And it was just so- You were doing street sweeps or getting them off? I'm kidding.

No. You're taking a snow shovel and getting them out of your neighborhood? Yeah. It's just like feeding people and dealing with like cash. I would do like these GoFundMes and then take the cash and give it to just directly to people who are unhoused, just to spread it around. And then we'd have these huge parties in the street where we were like playing music and doing comedy and stuff, which was really fun. But then it was also started to freak me out, like how dirty everything was, how dirty I

was. There's something funny about that. Cash was so nerve. It was so nerve. Where were you doing these? San Francisco, which is the most dirty city. Yeah, it's filthy. I mean, it's incredibly dirty. about that cash is i was so nervous i was so nervous where were you doing these san francisco which is the most dirty city yeah it's filthy i mean it's incredibly dirty and it's like i can't i get really freaked out like and i start if i'm walking in the street even like walking here like

walking anywhere in hollywood there's so much shit in the street i freak out i will i i have a phobia and a deep interest in feces. And I can't look away. If there's feces on the street, I have to look at it. And I have to think about it. What do you think about it? I think about what asshole it came from. I think about the composition of the food that was making up the feces. Also saliva.

Any kind of saliva in the street, I have to look at it. I cannot. Saliva. That's hard to pick out. It's there. There's a lot of mucus. I trust you.

I mean, so it's like a very deep. Do you picture it coming out of the show? It was, it was, it was. Yes, I definitely picture it coming out of the ass hole.

On that location. Yeah. Okay. And you go like, was it at night was it what was is it human do you assume it's a guy it's always a guy discover more value than ever at loblaws like price drop hear that loblaws lowers prices every four weeks on a selection of items so you can save more whether it's pantry staples or seasonal favorites,

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on consoles pc cloud services cloud services, or Android. And play Lego Fortnite for free. Rated ESRB E10+. Well, I guess. I feel like I've seen women shitting on the street. Yeah, but that's not my immediate impulse. That's not the feces you're drawn to. No, I'm drawn to some male feces.

But it's like really like this intense thing of like I think about it. Even like the park, I go to the park every day with my dog here. And if there's feces on the grass, I will then pick it up. Like I have to pick it up and get rid of it. I was going to ask you you have you clawed other feces another like not called like would you do you feel the need to like mush it i haven't mushed it i really try to keep it in the same shape and then i have to like get rid of it because it's my park so i have to get rid of it and um and my park. So I have to get rid of it. And then I have still memories.

So you walk around with lots of bags. I still have memories of where shits happened. And I think about them and they're burned like scars all over the park. So I can't look at the park without seeing all the shit that used to be there. God damn it, human beings. Can you believe we're like this? And is this a new thing or an old thing this is more i think old this is a this is an old pattern prehistoric yeah this is this has been going on i think since i was a kid from from like the initial uh oh not a kid but like going to hate street in san francisco which has always been filthy

yep always full of shit and also going to paris as a teenager somebody made a video that paris is the hood first of all paris stink it smell like piss cheese armpit and it's he's showing how fucked up paris is yeah it's all shit there's so much shit everywhere it's just just watch your step well that's fun for like the diet portion of what you think the shit is like was it a baguette yeah was it because you could definitely see like what's in there like you can see if it's runny if it's shiny if it's um too loose too loose litrex too loose is it too loose uh-huh um is it is there uh parasites interesting because you and this is a thing you've just accepted by yourself and like well not a blog by the way germaphobe and fecal phobia fecal fecal phonia fecal phonia it is

it's not exactly phobia it's a it's a phone what's the one where you like it i think it's uh fecal phonia something like that yeah it's my favorite outcast album as well um all right so germaphobe so you're you tried it's you not like you tried to help and you were like ah i'm grossed out by this or it's like there's a weird attraction it's a traction and it's also i have to help it's attraction but also but i don't pick it up if it's not in my park if it's not in my park i'm not picking it up because i don't have ownership of that street so if it's outside of the park then it's extreme revulsion but if it's in the part inside the park you're like i have to i'm like if it's in the park i have's not the park. You're like, I have to, I'm like, if it's in the park, I have a duty. You don't seem like you seem,

uh, very ethical, but based on, it's not religious. It's not pious. It's not like superior. No, it's just like, yeah,

do a thing for the homeless. Yeah. Yeah. Or, um, pick up shit or whatever. It's not, it,

did you grow up religious or no? Um, well, my grandparents were heads of the Korean church, but that's not where it comes from. I think it's like, I just like to do things that are good.

It's like I try to do esteemable acts, things that will build my own self-esteem, like doing things that are just morally right in my opinion. Is that from a 12-step program?

That can be, yeah. But like is that kind of where you got it? Yeah, for sure. And when did you start thinking that esteemable acts were a thing that were worth pursuing? I think probably in the 90s when I was really first introduced to the idea of sobriety and like trying to live sober and trying to clean up my life

and also not be depressed and look for ways to uplift my ego that were healthy. So you think that there's a component of ego to it? Yeah. To esteemable acts? Yeah. But it's good. It's good. Yeah, it's like, all right, if you're going to's a component of ego to it? Yeah. To esteemable acts. Yeah. But it's good. It's good.

Yeah, it's like, all right, if you're going to have a big ego, be like, help people. Yeah. And then that's a way to feed your ego outside of things like show business, which is feeding your ego in a way that is, I don't know, I think of how fame can be really... I've never achieved the great heights of fame that I've seen other people. And I've seen it really rot people from the inside out. Almost all of them. Yeah.

Because it's unfillable. Yeah. So it's weird. So I always think, well, if I ever achieved that kind of fame, I would want to make sure that I safeguard my own ego so it doesn't get out of control. So, oh, yeah, it's like you give it to other people to like tell me how to feel about myself all the time. child actors have hard time overcoming that and they have hard time in later life and especially if they can't achieve the same heights that they did as a child yeah you know well they're they're closed off from it's like no your body changed and all that the your supply is shut yeah we can't

give it to you anymore yeah and that's smart i mean like that's a that's a that was a good move i think so just because i was really on the cusp of being that because i achieved my own level of fame success fairly early yeah and you know i started comedy at 14 and i was readily being like like applauded at like 17 18 as as a headliner. Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to really look back at my life and think, okay, well, actually fame doesn't solve anything. People still think that it does, even in adulthood, like when you're kind of trying to achieve these things, think, oh, if I get this, I'll be okay. Yeah.

And it really isn't like that. I know. It's so hard to believe though, because it looks like it would. Yeah. It really looks like it would. And then what do you make of like what you have achieved in terms of that was the right amount or that was meant to be, or is there, is there any party that looks at it spiritually? Like, do you have a spiritual practice at all? I do have a spiritual practice

and I think it was all meant to be. You know, and it's all really a good, a lucky, everything has been a lucky and really I'm glad they happened the way they happened. And, you know, I think about like how I've been able to overall maintain kind of an even level head about it, which is good. Were you a big drinker or drug user? Yes.

Go on. Well, I have a couple of different engagements with sobriety. I got sober initially in the mid-90s because I was having a really bad problem with alcohol and drugs and um so then I got sober and um my life started to go really well you know when I moved to New York for a while and I did uh shows off Broadway there and it was really, really great. And I got married and everything was really amazing. But then I started to realize that I wanted to improve my life more. So I became vegan. And then I thought, oh, I'm going to become a raw vegan.

And then I'm going to become a raw vegan chef. And I'm going to start sprouting my grains before I eat them all are the feces coming back there's so much feces and um I started going to these camps where I would just like fast for like weeks and then I lost my mind like I just got so rigid about this idea of like, I'm going to be pure. I'm not going to have any chemicals in my system. You know, I'm sitting there,

I'm there, uh, like with all of these, also the old celebrities who I cannot name, but very good. Like other, like people in show business who were just like, we're all like in the desert

and we're just like trying to rid ourselves of everything. And I just couldn't do it. And so I went, came back to LA after one of those. What was the breaking point? Was there a moment of like, this is so stupid, I have to stop.

Well, I got in a business with another woman who was engaged in all this with me, and she tanked it. Your vegan chef business? Yeah. It was something else, but she tanked it, and I was so mad at her that I was like, I used that to just kind of go off. And then I went downtown, and somebody handed me this Jamba juice filled with psilocybin mushrooms, and I drank the whole thing. And I was not right in the head for

a while how long that it took about 13 years to kind of come down off of that that if anyone had paused it and said how long i would not have i wouldn't have even put 13 years as one of the options for how long it took 13 years 13 years what's the first eight hours of after you drink the jump juice so you so you're you yeah you're a successful comedian yeah you're famous you've done shows i'm the one that i want all the popular specials and you then you kind of go and you're living a extreme alternative life yeah you start some kind of weird business. Look it up if you want. And the woman tanks it.

And then you're furious. Furious. You go downtown. Where downtown? It was this party that I had. I used to have one of those egg chairs, you know, that has like stereos inside. Very cool. Mid-century thing.

So I gave it to this artist and he made an installation of it and so i was going to the the gallery to see it and uh i don't remember who it was somebody just handed me a psilocybin drink and i just drank the whole thing and it's like knowing what it was knowing what it was and being full well was this breaking your sobriety or had you done? Totally breaking my sobriety. After 10 years? Yeah. Seven years. Totally.

And not only that, I wasn't eating sugar. I wasn't eating. So it was a lot. It was everything and nothing processed. Everything just went down. And after that, I just didn't go. I was like out for 13 years. Out of my mind.

That's recent. Fairly recently. Well, yes. 16? 2016? 2016, I finally came to my senses or was brought to my senses. What were the 13 years like? I was just drinking and on drugs.

Oh, you went back into. Yeah. A crazy addiction and probably still high from the psilocybin mushrooms, like probably still out of it. Like, I think that. What do you think it did to you? If you could guess. It was just like I had lived so rigidly, like as this monastic life for seven years and thinking like I'm going to be. Which in and of itself is its own addiction.

Totally crazy. And its own like, I like it. I like fasting. I like the Catholic in me likes the sort of self-flagellation part of it. Yeah. And you really did it. I did it. And then it was the other way.

Do you feel better or do you even remember how you felt physically? Is it when people go, do you feel better because I'm vegan? I'm like, not really. I did. You did feel better? I did. I think that there was things about it that I thought was really remarkable. What was also weird was things that were very wrong, which were like, I didn't realize.

I stopped having a period for several years during that, like, which is really weird. Yeah. That shouldn't happen, especially in my 20s at that time. You know, I just stopped really understanding what everything was, like, made for. Like, I was so, like, outside of the realm of being able to do anything.

But you're still a comedian, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's going great. Yeah. It's going great. And, but you, but offstage it's like. Just so rigid.

You couldn't eat anything. Were they in Tupperware? Like were you glass? Everything was in like, well probably Tupperware, plastic. So that I didn't have like a thought about like recycling or anything like that or plastic um but i could you just couldn't go to restaurants you couldn't go you couldn't have anything at a club there was just nothing you nothing there for you nothing anything possible did you feel righteous no i just felt so removed from any real ability to engage with society but did that make you feel righteous

or you just felt uh alienated probably alienated a bit righteous at first but then alienated but then i was also around people who were doing the same thing so all my friends were also trying to like be raw vegans as well yeah i mean whenever i walk past a raw vegan place i'm like what's a place on uh west third in new york it was rain, but it was by NYU, but it was there forever. And the thing about raw vegans, they don't look healthy. No, they don't. None of them look healthy. They look pallid and sad.

It's just a life of strife. And I was doing a lot of yoga and then I thought, oh, I'm going to go and I'm going to be a yoga teacher. And then I was taking all of these classes from Bikram. Actual Bikram? Actual Bikram, who was so mean. It's not what the documentary is. He was so mean. The women of the trash?

Yeah. I pick them from trash and give them life. And so abusive to all the students and everybody trying to like become a teacher and the place stunk like in new york or la in la just stunk like you know sweaty people asses and feces and lots of feces ladies so much uh yeah this is what i mean like you're interesting you make it i've you've never not been interesting to me. I don't even know that. Yeah. And did the, tell me the first eight hours of the mushrooms.

Well, I was so high and then I came back to my house and everybody was kind of like looking at me. Like my husband was like, that's so weird that you did that. And then my animals were just really scared. I had three dogs and they were like all like, something's very wrong. They just avoided you? Yeah. They just didn't want to talk to me. They didn't want to be petted. They didn't want anything to do with me. And I was just out of it. And it took me a long time to sort of not be really altered from that trip.

But then it just gave me the permission to do any drug and eat anything after that. And did you, was any of it enjoyable? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Well, that's the thing with drugs and alcohol and food. It's like.

It's enjoyable, but it's also not. Because it's just like, it's enjoyable for the initial first part, but then it just becomes really like, oh, you want more or you're trying to not be hung over or whatever. Oh, it's all reaction to get that balance of whatever chemicals right and i could never do it i could never quite achieve what was good about the high that i remembered what was good about this what was good about this and did that husband leave you uh yeah yeah we split up great and uh good for him and did you did anyone along the way go, hey, let's- Yeah, yeah. And also, that's what happened. After 13 years, my friends were like, that's enough.

And I got kidnapped and I went to treatment. And I stayed in my facility on Mulholland, a very nice place. How much a month? God, it was a lot. It was like 30,000. I was going to guess that. But I stayed there for god it was a lot it was like 30 000 i was gonna guess that um but i stayed there for a year and nine months that's comedy money there guys it's it's it's where a lot of money went but it was really worth it i mean what's your life worth you know like yeah no of course and what did you why'd you stay at the facility so long? I really thrive in an institution.

It's where I belong. It's where I really am at my best. What part of it? Everything. Was it regimented? Yeah, there was group meals. There was group meditation. There was a lot of physical exercise there was um

you know there's hot people around there's people who are just a mess that are just fun to watch who there must have been people that went in with you got sober left fell off the wagon and went back yeah there's a lot of that but then nowadays they would just die because fentanyl yeah yeah fentanyl took out about 18 of the people that i was with in the facility and then um some people just would go downstairs and hang themselves in the facility yeah and it was like oh and was it like the the polyamory thing where there's rooms here? There's a lot of places. It's none of my business.

You can do that here because we don't know what's happening. But just stuff like that would happen or they would just drink themselves to death, which is horrible. And a couple of people fell in their house and they just died. What do you think it is? Meaning, it's a very broad question but like you just think it's a disease like a dissy like a uh just it's hard i think some people are in bodies that are very hard experiences yeah and they they self-soothe so to speak they're self-soothing also like my theory is that plants are trying to kill us like all of this the most harmful things are

plant-based so except fentanyl is not but the idea of fentanyl is plant-based like it's opiates and opiates are trying to like but these plants in their normal form kind of couldn't kill us no but they're trying to evolve through science to murder us so that we can go back to the earth and fertilize them to regenerate i'm sure you've heard that thing about cats there's a cat there's a virus that cats can implant in people a brain virus that it's basically it's like a long it's like a thousand year play from felines to get up to so they can eat us i like that i'm sure you do i knew i knew you'd get a kick out of it i like that uh it's so funny that the and do you actually i i can't disprove your plant theory well it's like

grapes like you know produce alcohol so that they're like really just trying to it's a long game of trying to get us in the ground so they can eat us. Disprove it. How much do you think you're paying in subscriptions every month? The answer is, let me answer it for you because I'm a white man,

so I'm a late arriving instant expert. I have an answer for everything. The answer is you're probably paying more than you think. Over 74% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about i definitely did i was subscribing to a streaming service and i was subscribing to a tier of streaming service that a commercial free version that i did not need and thanks to rocket money i'm no longer wasting money on the on that uh thank you rocket money by the way i'm and i'm pretty good with tracking but but this one slipped through.

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a year when using all of the app's features stop wasting money on things you don't use cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash N-E-A-L. That's rocketmoney.com slash N-E-A-L. Rocketmoney.com slash N-E-A-L. Ditch the meal planning woes and get into HelloFresh's biggest menu yet with over 45 recipes and even more market items to choose from every single week. Make restaurant-quality meals at home without the high cost of takeout, plus HelloFresh's new Ready in 20 recipes are on the table in just, you guessed it, 20 minutes. That's even quicker than delivery.

In fact, it's way quicker than delivery. I've got horror stories. Get in touch with me personally. I'll tell them to you. Guys, you know I've got a lady in my life and she's got a kid because i mean i don't see situations i see people and i guess i'm a hero whatever but uh it's a lot more cooking at home than i'm used to and uh we started doing hello fresh uh there's a chicken thing the kid likes he doesn't he's not vegan like me he's not a great man uh my girl also eats eggs

and whatever she's not the most she says she's vegan she's not but there's stuff for me too there's also like we get uh hummus and we get a tofu for me and some chickpeas and uh doll i could go on it's good we get they send it to us we cook it up it's quick the kids sitting there watching the ipad you but you've seen how it goes now it's excellent go to hellofresh.com slash neil sweet n-e-a-l-s-w-e-e-t for free dessert for life one dessert item per box while subscription is active that's free dessert for life at hellofresh.com slash N-E-A-L-S-W-E-E-T. Hello Fresh, America's number one meal kit. I did two different videos in that. Did you hear the number one?

I did a bit of Alan Thicke. Alan Thicke here. And I also did the ABC Sunday night movie from the 80s. God, man, what a read, Neil. Neil, you've done it again all right but that was germophobia guys that was block number one let's do depression very quickly okay tell me about your your your experience with that well i think like it's just an outlook like i realize after a lifetime of depression and trying lots of different ways to deal with it, like therapy

and group therapy and meds and all sorts of solutions. And I realize now the best way I've come, like, and also self-medicating, which is marijuana, alcohol, any of those things, or relationships, all those things didn't put a dent in it. And now the only thing that works for me is I have a really regimented meditation practice and I exercise. When you say regimented, what do you mean? I do it twice a day for about half an hour and I just sit there. And that's like, it's hard to find the time sometimes. But I do some different kinds of forms of that. And they'll also do like a VR form of it.

If I really can't pay attention, I'll actually put on a headset and do it that way. And that helps. And how often do you exercise? Every day. Just like long walks. And that's at the park? Every day. Just like long walks. And that's at the park with her. We knew where it was. Where all the shit is.

Shit park. And that's the only thing that's, that's the thing that's worked the best. And I sleep about 12 hours a day. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we, with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too.

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no, 10's not enough. It's 12. It's gotta be 12. It's really, like, and I have, I mean, it's, it's like to be 12 it's really like and i have i mean it's it's like it can't be every night that i do that but as much as i can why can't it be every night because uh i'll do sets and then like i'll do sets and then they'll like it'll be uh later and then i'll have to get up earlier to do something or if you're like shooting something you have to get up earlier and it's hard to you know make time to sleep but if i can i try to sleep as much as i can from the outside in it's i think a big part of being a

human being is figuring out what works for you and if it doesn't try something else yeah don't worry about judgment no one's paying attention just sleep 12 hours a day if you have to yeah and walk and put on vr headsets yeah because if you don't you're gonna do drugs yeah and or die or whatever like something but so it's like whatever you gotta do that is a good thing that that uh is granted to people trying to get sober is like whatever you have to do is okay because anything else might kill you yeah now do do sober people try to take advantage of it they do yeah but i think it's good advice for normal people yeah it is but you tried therapy medication and probably 10 different pills and so many different kinds of and the diet thing

and yeah and everything and it just didn't just anything like that didn't work and then i i realized that i mean talk therapy i could probably go back to and then i'll do like um group therapy and then i have a meditation teacher who you know then I'll do longer meditations with that group. And that's really great. And that's more of a sort of a social thing. It's so fun to just like go to somebody's house and just sit there with people and not talk. It's really cool. It's kind of perfect. I love it. A lot of connections is physical.

Yeah. Keep me company. Yeah. Feels good to do that. What's the best experience you've had meditating? Meaning how far can you, how far out can you go? I don't know. I mean, it's really like, I can't really, the best is when it feels almost like I'm sleeping, you know, the best is when it feels like a nap and then it's really refreshing, you know, and that's really great. Sometimes I just am fidgeting the whole time

sometimes i'm just like sitting there thinking like a mile a minute like just about dumb shit and i can't but it's that continual going back to it it's really amazing how start and when you don't do it you miss it and you're like what's what did oh fuck yeah well when i don't do it then that rigid sensibility of like oh what did you know that i'm like why didn't't do it, you miss it and you're like, what's what? Fuck. Yeah. Well, when I don't do it, then that rigid sensibility of like, oh, what did you know? And I'm like, why didn't you do it? You have to do it. Like, you know, I get very anxious about not doing it. What's the upside of rigidity?

That you do it. I know. It'll give you its discipline. Yeah. You're. Yes. And have you figured out the difference between discipline and rigidity? Because I don't think they're.

I think that the difference is, is just how you look at it. Like you're not punishing yourself for not doing it. That you're not like angry that you didn't do it or that you're just like frustrated or that you're like getting to the point where you say, fuck it. And I don't want to do anything. Yeah. I guess it's also like what is the goal? anything yeah i guess it's also like the what is the goal so so you would say that the depression is like in remission so to speak or you've got it sort of like it's in remission because it could definitely come back and i've had moments or moods where things get like i get disappointed

about something and then like i was disappointed about this romantic relationship that didn't work out from about three years ago. And I was so disappointed. And I had to really look at why I was so upset about it because I didn't like fucking him at all. Every time I would go to fuck him, I was like, I hate this the whole time. But I really wanted it to work and it just wasn't going to work and I was like why what about it you wanted to work you liked him I liked him and I liked being around him and I like the idea of him more than actually being with him so it was I was in love with this idea of this person that wasn't really who he was. And so-

Did he realize that? I don't think so. Did he ever go like, hey, I don't, it was- I think he just wasn't aware. And it was so upsetting to me. And I realized it didn't work out because he wasn't who I thought he was. And I was creating this on my own.

And then the disappointment of the fact that I created this relationship in my head that wasn't real at this age was really like that was depressing to me. So that took a little bit of more meditation that made me commit more to this idea of like going and taking classes and working out with other people. taking classes and working out with other people this concept of silence like the the true art of it like trying to quiet your mind it's funny you would think that is the disappointment of being getting older is you're like i can't believe i'm still doing this yeah i fucking can't i would have thought and some things do just sort of evaporate. Yeah. Some bad habits. But there are habits where you're like, this? I thought we did this in 96.

This is interesting to me. Fear of intimacy. Yes. Do you think polyamory people, and again, that's one of the things you've tried. But do you think that's a symptom of a fear of intimacy? I don't know if it necessarily is. But it mean it can be anything can be hypersexuality is a kind of fear of intimacy thing traditionally yeah you know when somebody's hypersexual hyper focused on sex that's definitely a way to disassociate from sex yeah you know uhsociate from intimacy. But I have, I think, my fear of it really is,

I think it's like because every relationship I've been in, I've created a myth of the person that I was with. I never really saw them. And I was more reliant on the myth of who they were and trying to stay within that mythology rather than actually getting to know them. How would you do that? Well, it was just like just being with a person and not really allowing them to be themselves or not really accepting when they were themselves or not really getting to know or be with them. And part of that

is like creating a persona for myself, like feeling like I had to be a person that they might love, you know, like having to perform intimacy rather than actually being intimate with somebody. What is it? Is it, are you afraid of being rejected? You're afraid of being boring? What is it? Is it, are you afraid of being rejected? You're afraid of being boring? What it is, is that I'm feeling so inherently unlovable that you have to create a person that could be loved in order to achieve that.

So I was like creating this persona. Who were some of these personas that you created? Persona would be like, it's really like the cool girl, like in Gone Girl. I'm like, oh, I'm like a pick me. Like I'm like really down with anything. I'll ride road motorcycles without a helmet. Like, you know, I'll definitely, you know, do that.

Like I'll, I love action films. I love prog rock. I love like all these things that I don't like or I don't care for. I love like all these things that I don't like or I don't care for. I don't care for at all, but I'll pretend to like them in order for this person who is deeply interested in these things to like me. If you knew that he was into motorcycles and prog rock, what was your ideation of him um that here's somebody who must be so unique and he's so uh brave and he's got money to spend on these projects he's got money to go see emerson lake and palmer you know whatever like he wants to go ride in the desert to go see these bands or you know we're gonna go

ride um in the italian alps and then go you then go see these rock shows in Valparaiso, whatever. It's like such a weird fantasy of a person. Do you find people just sort of disappointingly boring? Because I feel like that's part of being sober is just being like life's kind of boring and people are real regular. Yeah. And moments of like connection are sort of rare and magical right also as i get older like your hormones are less apt to to want to fuel the fantasy of like wanting to be this person because they are boring and your hormones are really that's

where the the chemical reactions are your hormones are creating a person that as a potential partner, a potential mate, that seems more exciting than they actually are. Yeah. Like poisons our perception of, yeah, to think that it's like, this is good. And then, and it starts writing fantasies about like, and then we're going to go to the Alps. It always ends up in the Alps. Of course.

It's always the Alps or the dolomites the dolomites always um and did you did you what was did you have an awakening with that where it was like what am i did you ever sex addiction i don't know if it was ever sex addiction but i just had a lot of sex that didn't make sense sex that i didn't really enjoy or understand that i was like what is this even what is this why am i doing this why am i doing this um would you say it was hormonal or no that was like just sheer out of uh curiosity some of it is also like wanting to be perceived as a free spirit and wanting to be perceived as somebody who was really like kinky and wild. And I accept and appreciate all those things.

And there is a part of me that really enjoys it as an aesthetic and also as a lifestyle. And I have a lot of really great, lovely friends who are involved in it very deeply. But for myself, I'm like, I think a lot of this is performative like what my interest is in it is kind of like trying to make somebody think that i like this because i think they are somebody that i might want to be with it's so interesting because from the outside in it from the outside in you as someone who's never been into any sort of kink stuff i'm like i don't are you do you are you really into this or is it it's impossible to tell who's actually into it yeah or and who's doing it for the social capital yeah and and you're saying it

was hard to know within yourself yeah it's hard to know because there's like part of me that is attracted to it and part of me that's like i don't know what's going on. I really wanted to appear kinky when I was dating this guy who was a unit publicist for like Dawson's Creek or one of the shows. I'm not sure. And he was very into the scene and very, he would do these things for me at this like club where uh he would set my leg on fire he would put uh and sanitizer on my leg and then light it and it was like what in front of people yeah it was like a thing and i'm like like, here they come. Did you have a song? Was it like a whole thing or was just like a bunch of people hanging out?

A bunch of people hanging out. OK. And I'm like, what? I don't know what's sexy about this. Like I was just like and I really he was great. But I just was like, what is sexy about this? Like, I can't really I don't understand what's sexual about this. And would people compliment you?

Or did you like the feeling it gave you, like the perception of you? I think it was like, because it was like, I always love the magician's assistant. Who doesn't? I love the magician's assistant. So that to me was like, it was kind of part of that. Like I was living out the like fantasy or fetish of being the magician's assistant. So that to me was like, it was kind of part of that. Like I was living out the like fantasy or fetish of being the magician's assistant. But at the same time, it was like a false self that I was putting forward that I was like into this because I'm not. There was another guy who, he was cool. He was in his 70s. He had a junk, like a Chinese ship, like a junk. A Chinese ship. A junk parked in the marina, like a Marina Del Rey.

And so he bought a veterinary suction machine that was used in surgery. So he rigged it so that it would suck on his penis and it would inflate it to the size of basketball and uh so he uh would just have that in his lap this is part of the same functions that you know my leg would get set on fire this is like one of those things oh then then the guy would be neck a few chairs down with the machine yeah with it he would leave the junk in the marina and but he would bring something to suck his junk sure to enlarge his junk at uh the club and um he was so interesting but i'm like what and i'm like why am i here what am i doing here have you ever met up with these people afterward and been like were you really really into that? Because I do.

Is there in my head more women do this? And but maybe I'm just wrong where it's like they it's the pick me thing of like, no, I'm I'm cool. And I'm I'm I'm sexually permissive and risk taking and all that stuff. But like. Men have more risk taking chemicals than women. Yeah. Just naturally. Yeah. So I wonder, is there. like men have more risk taking chemicals than women yeah just naturally yeah so i wonder is there it doesn't even necessarily need to be gendered but but it is interesting when you

realize like was i even into that yeah i don't think so but i'm also it is kind of a pick me thing of like look i'm so cool i'm so free spirited and open- look at the places I go but then I look back and I'm like well I appreciate it now I do things like um you know I I definitely uh have done a lot of different things in the BDSM community like work as a documentarian and do different things and like I see things that are just so amazing and I love it but I don't know if I would like it like stuff with do you believe that the people that't know if I would like it. Like stuff with like- Do you believe that the people that say they like it actually like it? Yeah.

Can you tell the difference? Yeah. Because they're engaged in it and we see them and they're like using cactus in their pain play and stuff. And I'm like, that's great. I love that people are using plants who are trying to kill us. It serves a lot of needs for you. So it makes sense to me.

Or like duct tape. Duct tape is a weird one. There was a guy that would wrap his whole body in duct tape and then just stick it and unstick it like a mummy, but stick it and unstick it inside his encasement. And it was just about the sound of stick would he be hard um i couldn't really tell but i think that was the goal yeah it always is yeah um well you don't seem insecure to me do you know what i mean like i guess that would that behavior would be born out of insecurity yeah but you seem really not confident in who you're just accepting of who

you are was that like did you come to that over time i think i came to that over i mean i think i've i've just really come had to sort of maybe drilled into my head about like self-acceptance around especially when i was in rehab that was a big part of it is learning to just be in acceptance around it's funny because when did you had a special called i'm the one that i want when did that come out well that was in 2000 but this is kind of before you were yeah the one that you wanted yeah yeah but then you know a lot of that was like trying to do stand-up comedy in the way that i would want to be perceived as a person like i'm trying to do comedy create a persona on stage that somebody that I would want to be perceived as a person. Like I'm trying to do comedy,

create a persona on stage that somebody that I would like to be. So that's sort of another aspect of it. Was that clear? Was that part of the show? It seemed I was convinced by who you said you were. I still trying, still trying to even like match the confidence of that person. Even now,

like I think I had a lot of confidence then maybe too because i was sober then and i was um trying to achieve this goal of being like free of any poisons free of any chemicals free of any meat free of any dairy free of any like things that would be harmful how much less insecure would you like to be how much is left like you know what i mean i think that there's now it's more like oh can i still engage in society as an older person you know can i still oh interesting can i still do this as a you know 55 are you still viable yeah am i still viable am i still relevant am i still able to do this because i still feel young yeah i still think of you as young yeah like despite words like trailblazer

again one of the the uh contradictions with built within you insomnia yeah how if you're sleeping 12 hours a day well i'm not it's like you the goal sleeping 12 hours a day? Well, I'm not. It's like the goal is 12 hours a day, but then it's like trying to make yourself actually sleep. Oh, all right. So you try to be in bed for 12 hours. Yeah. Got it. And what, do you have a sleep timer or watch or anything? Sometimes.

But usually like I try to get in bed around, if I'm not doing a show, I'm trying to get bed around eight. Okay. And then get up around eight trying it's fine i believe but most women would go to bed at eight if they could i love it i know women love going to bed early but i have to like not look at tv i have to not look at my phone i can't bring any devices in the fucking vicinity yeah have to practice some kind of sleep you must have so much free time not being uh focused on sex yeah it must be two hours a day of like just time that you that you need to know yeah because it is it's like a commute right of like i have to service this hormone and now it's for now you don't have to do it anymore yeah do you feel less feminine or less like do you miss this

sort of game of it i don't know i don't know um no because it was so uh intertwined with self-worth and am i worthy and am i worthy to be seen or can i be seen and um what do i have to do to myself to present myself like how do i even present to be seen like what is it what how do i maximize my appeal you know all that stuff is really not there and do you resent it or you just like yeah that's what i was doing oh yeah it's just what i was doing is what i was like thinking about and but now i realize oh that's really duct tape is a one duct tape is a one what do you think serves you um i think now it's just enjoying every aspect of life. And I really enjoy myself.

I really love my home. I love my animals. I love when I get to do comedy. I love to just travel around and do stuff. And I love to act. And all that's really enjoyable. More than it ever was? More than it ever was.

And you think it's a matter of your focusing on it or perceiving it differently? It's that I'm looking at it not as a means to get anything else. You know, it's not as like my home. I'm enjoying not as a means to open it up and share it with somebody, not as a means to show off how great it is. It's not as any of that. DQ presents. Picture this. Picture the Reese's extreme blizzard back for a limited time.

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You can enjoy free beer, wine, and premium snacks in economy class. Now extended to flights within Canada and the U.S. Cheers to taking off this summer. More details at aircanada.com it's it's really i just love sitting in here i love it you know make music and it's not uh any kind of like thought of like oh i'm doing this in order for it to go somewhere i just love making it i love the physical sound of the instruments i play and the the way that my voice sounds when i sing so and the thing you're saying now i'm assuming there are times where like this is stupid this is boring this is but for the most part it it is just for its own sake yeah yeah yeah i mean that's a gift yeah if you can get there yeah but you gotta go to rehab for a year

and a half um and then finally we have imposter syndrome which i feel like we've been kind of talking about anyway but if you start standing when you're 14 who's a real stand-up yeah who like who meaning if you're an imposter who's who who's a real one it's so weird i don't know this is but the imposter syndrome is like that's why i never want to do a set at um any award show because you're fucking trying to do a set in front of people who all are sitting there in their own imposter syndrome, which is the worst audience. Well, they're thinking about how they look if I look signal and they cut to me. Yeah. Or do I even deserve to be here?

Yeah. Or if somebody's making a joke about them, it's like all adding insult to the already injury injurious state of imposter syndrome so it's like a horrible situation when did you hear the term imposter syndrome be like oh i think that's me i don't quite remember i think it comes from like probably in the 80s listening to elvis costello who i love who uh sort of references the sort of the idea of imposter syndrome a lot in his music. And then this idea of like, do I even belong? Like, do I even belong? And I think all comedians have that to some extent. Like, do I even belong? What is this even? So it's like, I don't know, it's a continual thing. Now I've just kind of tried to push it to the side.

Also trying to do other things like, you know, music or acting. Like I'm always trying to like, I'm good enough to be here. I should be here. I can do this. Well, also, nothing is impossible. Or I will say, you know what's impossible? Stand up. Yeah.

And you did it. So anything beyond that is like a lot of acting's mostly memorization and looking how you look and not flipping out yeah when there's a camera on you yeah not acting squirrelly or like being a don't spaz out but i'm saying how did you get to the thing of like i'm not a product meaning not even a product, like opening the door at your house and not imagining Architectural Digest coming in. When did you get to like, no, I'm really living a life that is not for consumption? I feel like that is almost more recent than anything like that is more like, can I just enjoy life without this thought of having to be productive or like can i just enjoy my time without having to think like i should be doing

something else or um can i just live you know like that's kind of it and did it is it hard is it a thing you need to sort of practice yeah yeah and is it beyond meditation is it like a thing where you have to like margaret remember yeah just be a person just set set your mind to that you know and continue to like bring your mind back to it's okay to just be here is it getting easier yeah yeah it's really been great to talk to you because i it is your i think what you're experiencing and i'm sure it's i'm sure you have plenty of fuck ups or whatever it's something to aspire to like where you are because it's self-acceptance and just stop listening to your hormones. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. They kind of need to cooperate. They need to shut the fuck up, which is hard to make them do. Yeah, it's really hard. But if you can get there, it's you're more in control. It's actually you. Mm-hmm. It's actually you.

Or a closer version of actually you than this deluge of nonsense. Margaret Cho. Thank you.