Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Maria Bamford

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

Neal Brennan interviews Maria Bamford ('Old Baby', 'Lady Dynamite', 'The Maria Bamford Show + much more) about the things that make her feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how she is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 7:27 Eating Disorder 8:12 Manic 8:48 OCD 10:44 Guilt  12:50 Sad Sack 16:55 Depression 26:58 Suicidal Ideation 49:23 Nihilism 57:20 Bipolar II 1:02:19 Her Phone 1:05:40 Sloth  1:07:45 Narcissism  1:19:16 Heckling 1:25:30 What She’s Done 1:28:20 Movie Question ---------------------------------------------------------- https://nealbrennan.com for tickets to Neal's tour Brand New Neal Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- Sponsors: GameTime App Code: BLOCKS for $20 off your first purchase https://betterhelp.com/Neal for 10% off your first month https://mintmobile.com/neal for $15/month plus free shipping Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by RBC Student Banking. POV, you're a student listening to an RBC ad. You're learning you can get up to $330 in value with RBC, including $100 when you open a no-monthly fee RBC Advantage banking account for students, so you can vibe with friends even more this semester. POV, you're unlocking more perks for less with RBC. Up to $330 in value is a combined total of three available offers, each in accordance with the respective terms and conditions.

Limited time offer ends October 31, 2024. Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash student offers. Hey, my name is Neil Brennan. I'm a comedian. I got a Netflix special, Blocks, and then Jimmy Carr said I want to have other people come on and talk about their blocks, the things that make them feel isolated, alone in the world, like something's wrong with them. Now, my guest today is one of the poobahs of mental health. Princessa? Princessa. One of the princesses. I know there is no female. This is probably a coincidence.

I was going to say one of the godmothers. The duchess. The duchess of, of traumaty. No, yeah, no, there are plenty of people doing important work about mental, yeah,

mental health. But yeah, no, I love to talk about it. Maria Bamford. It's been a cash cow. It's been a cash cow. Oh,

you've monetized this thing All the way into Fourth hand sweaters Full disclosure Check out the merch You still sell old Sweaters at your show? No

Fuck I wish you did That would be the greatest merch That would be great Go to Salvation Army Yeah To get a bag

A box of shit. Box of shit. And bring it and put merch. Well, I do suggest that people make their own fucking merch because I'm sick of people asking about it. Take a piece of masking tape, write comedy on it, slap it on a sock. I don't have time. I don't have time for your small business ideas. By the way, I sell merch.

I have to lug a box fucking through the airport. Yes. So that you can get a shirt and I can get $1,100 a year. And I love a piece of shit. I love stuff. I'll buy koozies, hats, pins, tees. I'll buy anything. But like to

have to sell it. And the problem is because I talk about mental health, which, uh, so then lots of people, as I'm doing the exchange of goods and services, they'll tell me about a suicide attempt. No one saw this coming. Or they'll have a, they'll have a bracelet of just getting out of the hospital and they'll say, Oh, and I'll have to say, can I run your cart again? I'm so sorry about your father. Can I run that again? Do you have Venmo? Suicide's a tragedy.

But leave it out of the marsh line. Oh, God. Well, sometimes I tour with my friend Jackie Cation, and then she moves it along for me. She goes, uh-huh, moving along. You're cock blocking the sale. Somebody, okay. This is interesting.

I was talking to a near, whatever, word like trending toward friendship. Okay. And he said like, oh yeah, I was doing this and on Monday, I thought I was going to kill myself and I just laughed

because I found it, like, it's just a funny thing to say. Like I was, I had to do this thing, but I thought I was going to kill myself. So I wasn't, like it was very matter of fact.

Switch things around, decided. Yeah, he was going to have to move some things. And I laughed and my friend was like, that was good that you laughed. I asked a friend, I was like, was that weird that I laughed?

And they were like, no, it's more, it's like normalizing. I don't know how to feel. Like as people who deal with stuff, I would from the outside and you deal with more stuff than I do no I think that's a judgment ouch um I don't I don't mean like and best of luck with it um uh but I'm saying like why not be funny about or why not be like yeah I don't know yeah i'd rather talk about something

than not not you know not talk about it and especially then yeah if you've joked about it then everybody can pitch in now of course comedians sometimes are totally unhelpful like you'll say oh i'm having a panic attack oh what's that feel like banford shut up you're like i mean like you don't tell certain comics. But certain other comics, you can tell them backstage, and they would be completely supportive. And they go, I'll do your time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll do your time for you.

Exactly. Well, Jackie, Casey, my friend, like, I, when we were, I started doing The Road, and I was not doing well. I was bombing. So she would switch up with me, and she'd headline, and I'd middle. So I wouldn't ruin people's evenings in eerie Pennsylvania. And yeah, so like people who will be kind and pitch in for you rather than say,

why haven't you done it yet? Why haven't you killed yourself, Bafford? Well, I guess- Thank you, thank you. I was having a panic attack one. Or I was like, I'm going to have a panic attack if I go on. And a friend was just like, no, man, you got to go. You got to go on.

You got to go on. And he wasn't, I don't consider it shitty. Yeah, yeah. It was just like, he was kind of like, no, I almost had a panic attack the other day. You can do it. Yeah. Like, whatever. And he was kind of like, no, I almost had a panic attack the other day. You can do it. Yeah. Like, whatever. And he was basically right.

It's just not very much fun to do stand-up comedy. When you're having it. When you either are having one or think you're going to have one. And even if you have one, I don't know how long. I started taking beta blocks before I went on. Oh, yeah, yeah. Those two, yeah. Yeah.

I started taking beta blocks before I went on. Oh, yeah, yeah. Those two, yeah. Yeah. But what would happen for me is I'd go on and, you know, tight throat, walls closing in, can't think straight because you're like think you're dying. Yes, yeah. And you can't breathe. They wouldn't last very long.

They last 25 seconds maybe. And I could get through it and do the joke or whatever. And I would just like do a short joke. But the joke wouldn't work very well. Right. Because they know something is out of... Yeah, you're out of your body. You're not there. But no one was ever like,

were you having... The joke wouldn't work. Right. Afterward, it was not... The whole set was not fun. Right. Because you're like doused in like this, whatever that was. You're still like, you know.

Yeah, no, it's miserable. It is not, it's not good to feel bad at work. I don't know if this is special to showbiz. I don't think it is. I think most jobs, as long as you look like you're doing the job, they want you to come to work. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Like even, yeah, if you're clearly, I mean, I'm sure you've worked with other comics who they're dying in front of you of an addiction. Like they are dying of an addiction and they go and they're still touring and you're like, oh, so no one's gonna, I mean, and I mean, I didn't stop them either. You know, I was like,

there's a hot crowd waiting for them to perform. What do you think of that as an adult, someone who's been an adult a while, seen people die of drug overdoses? Are you of the sort of, you can't change people and they're just going to run their course? I mean, I do. I feel like the one, and this is, I only do it for myself. So I don't feel like I, cause I appreciated when people reached out to me and say, Hey, Maria, like, you know, I had an eating disorder. So at one point, you know, several points in my life, people said, Hey, Maria, you're getting too thin. And I'm like, fuck you. I am Karen Carpenter. You know funny. The women I know have had eating disorders and the

pride you start taking. Nikki Glaser was saying she would get lightheaded and be like, yeah. Everything forms this perverse value system. Yeah. Yeah, no. And yeah, you're just jealous. And yeah, all right, weirdo. But that's one of those things where I said something to Nikki one time and she got pissed at me. Yeah, of course she did. Yeah, and retrospectively,

I'm just grateful that the person said it. Does it get in? Yes. Like, I think when I was going manic, I had like a 2011, I had a number of breakdowns. And my friend said, hey, Maria, remember when you said I should tell you if you start talking too fast and having a whole lot of shit ideas? And I was like, yes. And she goes, we should go to the hospital now.

And I was, you know, I was embarrassed. Give me a snapshot of a shitty idea. Well, I had been really obsessed I was working for Target as a yeah yeah and I

I just was so obsessed that it was evil and that it was wrong and then so I was checking with everybody which is partially OCD so I was like I called the New York Times

I called this I drove up to this priest in Santa Barbara, who everyone said was great. I got an interview with him to see like what he thought. He said, he said, I just bought,

I bought these pants at Target. Huh? I guess it's not so good. Maybe I shouldn't buy them at Target. Were you, did Target ever say like, Hey, why are you doing this?

Yeah. No, I think I did not work for them. I think after the third year, they said, yeah, they were. Moving in a different direction. Are we still doing our manic shark tank TV? What is the manic shark tank? Well, it's shark tank, but it's all people having manic episodes.

Oh my God. I fucking love and they pitch crazy ideas to the sharks and like you guys no no don't answer no it's the the lower part of a mannequin but it's it's like it's like the second person in your home because anyways i don't i don't have time to explain it it's above you guys above you guys all right there's a different man in shark Tank in Australia. I'll go right there. They already, they want me.

So I'll go. Oh my God. That's a wonderful. That'd be a great sketch. That is. A freeway around the world. Where do we start? Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So. So I've always been grateful that people have said, but only retrospectively. At first I was offended and pissed. Yeah. Yeah. So, so. So I've always been grateful that people have said, but only retrospectively. At first I was offended and pissed. Yeah. And then you realize like, hmm. Hmm.

All right. So that's what I try to do. If I see someone who I go, well, hey, I'm worried about you. I try to say, I'm, I'm genuinely worried about you. Even if you don't. Yeah. Even if that person doesn't take it in or says fuck off yeah you know just at least for my own sake have said something and that's just for guilt

so that if somebody dies of something it's like well i said something because i've you know relatives die yeah and so i just go and who i did didn't say anything because it was just like, oh, we won't, we can't, we can't possibly say anything. And yeah, and then that person died without anybody, at least as far as I know, there was no intervention. And I watch, oh, John Mulaney's show, which is all about like,

that saved his life, you know? And- Intervention. Awesome. Well, that was, I was talking to somebody. It wasn't even specifically about Malena, but it was just about intervening, right?

Yeah. And comedian. And, and I go, do you think it's worth saying something? And he goes, you know, I've not said something for 30 years and it never got better.

Right. It's one thing to say something. And if it doesn't, like they, at least you, like you said, like I, my side of the street's clean. I tried.

Yeah. Not even like you would think it's dirty, but, but, and also, but then I'm also of the mind of like, adults are going to be adults. Yeah.

Which is where you get into the Al-Anon thing of like detach with love. Yeah, detach with love. But I do think the whole thing of talking about things like, hey, do you really mean you're suicidal? You know, do you want to talk about this for a quick second? Or was that seriously just a joke? If it is just a joke, oh my God, hilarious.

Yeah. But otherwise, you know, let's, because I mean, I'm a talker about suicide. I have attempted lightly twice, you know, and I, you know, not, they've been ridiculous. Dipped your toe in. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas somebody, um, else, uh, I have a good friend who has more impulsivity who is male,

who might, who might do it, do it, who does not talk. So if he mentions it, I'd go, hey, I might just pay more attention that suicidality and depression, like I'm more of a depressive sad sack. I'm a sad sack. And he's more of a like, oh, I think I might get a gun, you know, like real fast. You know, I think they are different. There's a lot of good new gun laws permitting. Hey, Maria, I don't know if you've been following the gun laws, but there's some dynamite new gun laws. I always wonder about intervention with sex addiction. You know, that we've had so many comics uh but you

know louis c cake crystalia yeah where it's like people doing stuff where it's like okay that's clearly illegal can the comedy community community in any way instead of just going oh that really sucks yeah help you know like because there are definitely places you can go for help. And that stuff isn't even about sex. Like, it's about power. It's about. Yeah. It's about impulse, too.

Yeah, it's about impulsivity. It's about like, it's a form of OCD. Yeah, the excitement of doing something super creepy or some, yeah, some trauma you had as a child or it was done to you or whatever. But I do think that isolation of an individual is never helpful. I also think it's harder the more popular they are. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's Mulaney's, I'm not shocked that it worked, but talent level, money, John's got a lot of, John's a big star.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like he could have fucked off. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. No, no, no.

That is, no. So it's, but I think you just never know. You never know. You never know. And that's what the cool thing about intervention are people just giving it a shot, you know, saying, hey, would you want to get help? I couldn't help notice you masturbating in front of me. Whoa. Is there something you'd like to do about it?

Well. Probably the best time to hear me. Well, and I, you know, and it doesn't happen as much for female comics, but I'm also, you know, I'm not for it when women comics like do stuff in the audience where it's like sexually, you know, bugging somebody without asking them. But you also see it's hard to fucking confront people. It is. It's just hard to confront people. Again It is. It's just hard to confront people. Again, success.

It's just icky. But if you're like, hey, can I involve myself in your emotional life? It's just like, I'd rather just be like, ah. Guys, you know, I talk about therapy more or less every episode. If you like this podcast, you probably have emotional needs that maybe aren't being met by yourself or others, and you got to call in the pros. Therapy helps. It helps. Whatever type of therapy it is, talk therapy, whatever, none of it makes you worse. It's either a push or it's good. It's helpful for learning positive coping skills,

how to set boundaries, a thing we talk about constantly, and it empowers you to be the best version of yourself. And it isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. It doesn't have to be major trauma. Plus, nowadays, every trauma's major. Am I right? So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try.

It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Let therapy be your map with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash neal today

to get 10% off your first month that's b-e-t-t-e-r-h-e-l-p dot com slash n-e-a-l for 10 off your first month better help you can be better and they can help that's not their slogan but it you know they could certainly consider it all right so you've got i mean just what I've seen in your act, you have a bunch of, your first one is depression. Yes. First of all, you have a book coming out. Yes. What's the book called? It's called Sure, I'll Join Your Cult. Great. Based on a true story? Based on, I love to be a part of any group. I don't even know, have to know what it's about. And I will gladly join in for at least a week.

Do you? Until I go, wait, this is Jehovah's Witnesses. What are selling points? Haircuts, outfits? What makes it more believable? Free food. If they call me or come to my home, I'm kind of interested. Did you pursue Scientology at any point? I did. I did. I took that test. And then I was like, this test is way too long. And then they had the show there. They had a show at the Celebrity Center and I went to go see somebody in a show. I can't remember how

that came about. And yeah, at that point I was already in 12-step cults, which are free. Yeah. At that point, I was already in 12-step cults, which are free. And they are- Do you consider 12-step groups cults, largely? Yeah, totally. I mean, it's a bizarre set of beliefs that are kind of pseudo-spiritual. Yeah. Also very, you know, paternalistic language, peer counseling. And people also, people can be monstrous in these groups, like without any oversight.

Do you ever see Doug Stanhope's bit about it? No. He had a bit that I never bootlegged a bit before. I saw him do it. And then I went back the next night and recorded it because I couldn't believe. Step one, admit that you're powerless over alcohol. Step two, get a higher power. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he goes, by your logic, vodka is my higher power. Yeah. Like, so I'm just going to go back to worshiping vodka. Yeah, yeah. Which is like, wow. But I've also gotten a lot of benefits from 12-step groups. No, no. I love them.

Oh, my God. I can't get enough. I am totally on board. But you see, human beings need constant supervision. Yes. And any group, any person in charge, any group, unless there's some checks and balances, it will just automatically run.

We're set to run amok. It's going to get weird. It's going to be, yeah, no, I have the current groups I affiliate with. And this, again, this is a rule of cults, which you're not supposed to do. You're not supposed to say publicly what you're in, which I think is also, I know why it's because of pride or something. You're not. I thought it's because you become the spokesperson for it. Right. Which I was just like, there's no fucking way. Like there's millions of people in these groups and we all know who's in them.

Of course. Elton Jay, you know, like Brad P. Have you been to one of his meet? Like what? Yeah. Like Brad P, have you been to one of his meet? Like what? Yeah, I've been in, I've been Overeaters Anonymous. And then I've been in Debtors Anonymous for about 25 years. And then I, for briefly, about five years, I went to Sex and Love Anonymous. Because I had a lot of compulsive one night stands, late 90s.

That's right. Freeway entrance ramp motels, red roof, and the door doesn't lock everybody in. Um, like it was wild like that. Uh, it was just lightly dangerous where I was like, once a year I would go. And,

and this is like something that's an addictive thing where you go in your act when you talk about being single and then kind of feel out the room. Like, you know, that's, I think I definitely did that as a younger comic where I'd go I'm single can you believe it and then you're at a nightclub so then afterwards some dude's gonna hang around and go right can't believe you're single and then you're like what did you know? Yeah. Who told you? Oh. Yeah. You're a wise one, huh?

Yeah. So, and that, I mean, again, this is all weird cult language, but it was helpful to me. They said that that can be a kind of like, it's intriguing where you're not really doing true intimacy. You're just setting up vibes. So, saying I'm available, but you're not really available at all. You know, like, so at least how did you get available? Well, so what, and this is what I chose for my, I told my sponsor, I've been told I'm very available and not available. I've like literally gotten both notes. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, I, I did, uh, get a

dating plan where they said, uh, anybody you go on a date with, you have to go on six dates with them and you have to be dating other people at the same time. I mean, if, if that's possible, but like you don't just zero in on one person and you, that one, it's one date a week so you've got to spread things out over time so it isn't this uh at least like you used to yeah i jumped what whoa neil i used to do stand-up comedy you weren't there um i always did it through the butt um anyways yeah so then yeah no i've heard that stuff like it's all it's you act it seems like i mean in slaw and sexual genetics anonymous they kind of give you methods to yeah with yourself and also seeing your part in it like i never really thought of myself as um as a predator

but i was like oh shit like meeting the people in the groups and that half of it's dudes and the guys would cry talking about you know one night stands they had and I'm like oh I didn't know that I didn't know you felt bad about it like I was like yeah that was really surprising were you do you think that the people that you were hooking up with were also addicts I don't know but I did have people who I think i really hurt their feelings where i was just like very cold but believed that bullshit you know male female stereotype of like guys just they just love it and it's like you know women you know women once you have sex with a man you know they just can't leave you alone and i you know i was the opposite i was just like yeah see ya which is gross too i mean they're all right it's all gross but um or it's

great if that's what you've agreed to if you love polyamory and all that stuff then that's awesome but i think the thoughtfulness about it of having some uh self-reflection of like why yeah of like am I really being available yeah the availability thing because it's really uncomfortable to me to actually have relationships even for you know friendships they're hard it's embarrassing and I have a hard time kind of negotiating or navigating them. Yeah. It's hard. People get their feelings hurt. I get my feelings hurt.

Yeah, no, totally. Constantly. Yeah, constantly. So that's what I really liked about it. I think, yeah, I was dating for a while, and I did meet my husband, but I was dating other people. And he was the first person who was just like, he knew I had mental illness and he was like, my mom had bipolar and she went to the hospital. He said to me, I'll come in, I'll shave your beard if you grow a beard. I was like, that is the most fucking romantic thing I've ever heard in my life and and then he really showed up like he was and he's not in any way like a perfect person

you know as i'm not either but did you guys fall in love quickly um it wasn't like that for me anyways i only whenever i've fallen and you've never asked him how it was for him because you don't care about it. That's not true. I think he just thought he really liked me. And he was just like, this could work. Yeah, when I fell in love, I fell in love in high school. And I fell in love with, you know, some guy in Australia once. And I was just like, it was always fantasy type elements.

So I didn't have that falling in love feeling, but I had the feeling of, I was like, are you down to do therapy? Are you down? And he was just like, yep. Yeah. You know, and so we've, we've gone to therapy ever since we were together, like three months, three months in was, you know, and. It's not going to hurt if you can afford it or if you have access to it. Or it's not going to hurt if you can afford it or if you have access to it.

It's not going to make the relationship worse. Go to a weird 12-step group for couples, Recovering Couples Anonymous or Chapter 9. What's that? Chapter 9. It's about relationships. I think it's from the big book in Alcoholics Anonymous, but it's called Chapter 9. It's just mostly in LA, but it's couples. That's been super helpful. It's free. It's been helpful. It's on Zoom in LA, but it's couples. That's been super helpful.

It's free. It's been helpful. It's on Zoom. Yeah, and it's weird. It's super weird. Do people do couple shares? Yeah. No, it's really sweet.

Because I didn't have a lot of married friends. I had my parents who had been married 50 years or had all my girlfriends were just like, you know what? Kick it to the curb if it's at all toxic. I'm like, everybody's fucking toxic. All my friends are toxic. You guys are as toxic as they come. So it's really nice. You can reach out to other couples because both of us had a really hard time. Like the way I express anger usually is through suicidal ideation. Teary, sad sack. Literally suicidal ideation. If you're angry about what? You know, Scott's from Philadelphia.

So sometimes he speaks in a rough and tumble way that is direct. Yes. And so somehow, hothouse flower here goes, this means something, you know, like somehow I'm trapped. Tears, tears, tears, tears, tears. And then like, it'd be better off if I'm dead, you know? It's not- Immediately? Well, I mean-

Or like on the ride home? Well, it's a go or like on the ride home. Well, it's a go to thing that I did as a kid. Right. The ages of like nine or 10. Like that's always like adult running away. Yeah. His running away is yelling and then going on a long drive or long, long walk. He likes a six hour.

I consider suicide the longest drive. Well, and he can talk about his own experience. Yeah, so we both came with our own nonsense. Do you still do that? No. Okay. No. I'm not sure if I, it sounds pretty effective.

But it's just like, I think in those 12 hours, it's like slips. Like we go, okay, here's what we could do better. And the nice thing about these 12-hour programs is like, we can go to another couple and say, you like stop the process, whatever the dysfunctional process is, just for a second. Like, like let's say you want to have two shots of tequila. Well, why don't you do some harm reduction and have like a milkshake and then a shot of tequila or, you know, slow down, slow it down a little bit. started freaking out and going inside myself crying, sometimes they say, change the subject. Just change the subject to something lighter. Go do some plans that you already had planned without going into this big drama. I can't remember what that tool is called, but it's one of the tools of the fellowship program. And it's just like, oh my God, I just don't have those.

No one's taught me that. We don't have any good habits. Yeah. Naturally? Yeah. Yeah. No. I was just talking to, Atsuka was here and I was like, our factory settings are all bad.

Yeah. They're all bad. We want them to be good. I believe every human being would them to be good. Like we, I would, I believe every human being would like to be angelic. Yes. And we're not like that. Yeah.

That's not who we are naturally. So you have to like, no, all right. Don't tell them you're going to kill yourself. Just like the most basic shit. We have to like, no, look. Yeah.

Yeah. We center ourselves constantly. Yeah. And I have to outreach to friends and go, okay, this is what I want to do, but I am just going to tell you what I want to do and then not do it. Right.

Because that- I'm telling you because it's such a good idea. You got to hear this. This is an awesome idea. I'm telling you because it's such a good idea. You got to hear this. This is an awesome idea. I'm moving into my car. Okay. It's at CVS. I spoke to the manager.

He was yelling. We had a connection. He's super cool. Okay. I love a CVS parking lot. Who doesn't? So the things you've been diagnosed with, you just did the medley,

I mean, just based on the cults that you've been in. Yeah. Depression. Yeah. OCD. Yes. Schizophrenia? No.

Great. Not yet. I'm not opposed. My friends, yeah, I have a few friends with the with this have you read uh the center cannot hold no who wrote it ellen sacks no she's out of la she's a lawyer who has schizophrenia and she runs a uh built a law center at ucl usc um to uh advocate for mental health laws great yeah it Yeah. It's a beautiful book. I don't know.

If you ever want to read about schizophrenia, it's beautiful. Okay. So the main ones are OCD and depression. Really just depression. And then there's the subheading, would you say, OCD? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Explain. I don't know if you were the first person I ever heard talk about intrusive thoughts, but it was heartening to me because I have thoughts where I'm like, I'm never going to do that. Yes. Yeah. And I don't, and I feel bad that I had the thought.

Right. And it's repetitive. Yeah. And I think a lot of comics, I mean, that's a really beautiful thing about comedy. In general, people will say things that you thinking that nobody wants to say that they've been thinking. But yeah, some things that are even more like taboo where, yeah, it's really shameful. I'm trying to think there's different kinds of OCD, pedophile OCD, where people are afraid that they're a pedophile. A lot of women who are postpartum depression, one of the symptoms postpartum OCD is fear that you're going to harm your own child. And so they don't want to touch their own baby. I mean, it's like really can destroy people. They're so freaked out about this and really convinced that they're somehow a dangerous person.

Well, it makes you feel like you're shitty in a deep, profound way. Yes. Yeah. And you have this impulse and it's like, well, why would you have the impulse if you weren't shitty? Yeah. Or think of it again. Yeah. weren't shitty yeah or think of it again yeah or um yeah and that's the OCD part where it's like most people they would think some creepy thought you know whatever it is and uh they just go oh

oh Jesus you know like right and but I know when I started thinking my thoughts first as a kid it was like whatever was taboo in society that's what I zeroed in on so I was afraid that I was like a basically like a lesbian serial killer and that I was going to kill my family and chop up my mom and my sister's breasts and then put them into chunks and bits and have sex with the chunks and bits put the chunks of bits on a cob salad toss it and feed it to the baby Jesus. I'm just spitballing. That's from the album. Anyways, but, whoa.

Yeah, so I did never get that far into the anxiety about it. Lesbians here will go, did you shave your eyebrows? I guess that's the question. No, is that part of it? I feel like Elaine Warno, she was, was she a lesbian? Or Scarlett, or what's of it? I feel like Elaine Warno. Was she a lesbian?

Or Scarlett, or what's her name? Shaved her. Yeah. That's right. Monster. You could win an Oscar. Monster. Anyhow.

Any hoogs. And so you must have thought, well, I'm a lesbian serial killer. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what's happening. So I got to stay up all night. serial killer. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what's happening. So I got to stay up all night. And my response to this to prevent it from happening was to sit on my hands and to shut my eyes all night to make sure that I didn't do such a thing, which is, that's a great preventative measure if you are ever worried that you're associated. But not sleep. It sounds like sleep.

It's not sleep. Not sleep. No, did not sleep. And then I actually, part of developing the eating disorder was to kind of knock myself out. So I'd stop thinking these thoughts, like just to be like, oh my God, I'm going to have 17 bowls of ice cream so that I don't have to think about this stuff anymore. You feel so sick that you're like, all right, well, this is my priority now. Yeah, I'll pass out. Yeah, it keeps you busy, eating disorders. Keeps you off the pipe. Well, the way I developed my eating disorder, it was a band. Right, right. You get a new eating disorder. What you do, you get yourself.

All I had was a bunch of pickles. I had a bunch of pickles. I poured some sugar in it. My process, thanks for asking. I got to get to band practice in the bathroom. Yeah. So you really had your hands. I mean, it sounds like, how did you even get into, how did you become an adult? Do you go to college? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did. I mean, I was a very functional person.

I'm a highly functional person in terms of, I was able to go to school and interacted. One of the things, well, speaking of cults, my dad, because I was so depressed, got me involved in Dale Carnegie training courses, which is how to win friends and influence people. And just call them by their first name repeatedly. It helped me to have a format to talk to people. And that's continually changed my life is like when I've had like formats of how to live life. So I do love a cult. I love like 12 steps, like, oh, you do these things and then this will get better. Awesome. And talk about keeping your hands full. Yeah, exactly.

This is in the eighties. Yeah. Eighties. And there was not a huge infrastructure for people with intrusive thoughts, OCD. Yeah. So my parents sent me to a Christian counselor, which always is helpful. And yeah, that didn't work at all, except that it showed me that they love me, that they care about me. And so I went to this Christian counselor, and I fell asleep with her for an hour every week. And then, yeah, I eventually called a suicide hotline from college, and that gave me the number for a 12-step group. And that really helped me because it was just full cult you know it's just like you're in you have a higher power oh my god sure okay what what what do i do and um i'm an atheist in general but um for i was so desperate

i was just like sure god sure i'll in God. Is that what works for everybody? Yeah. What's his name? Yeah. Jesus. Okay. Yeah. Great. Love what I'm hearing about him. Fantastic stuff. Yeah. That's well, they, they say, you know, there's an atheist version of 12 steps wink. No, there's not. That is good. I've been. It's a, yeah, I mean. It's also just like, it's not. Just dancing around it. It's just like, okay. Yeah, why do we have to have a separate thing? The group becomes

the higher. I would also like to say, because the point of the show is to talk about the stuff and how you got better. 12-step groups are fucking helpful yes yes totally like because the way you're you're analytical and smart so you're gonna like reduce it but well i just do want to like lower like lower the bar like in terms of like it's what if it's what if

it's shitty you know but it's better than what you've been getting, you know? I've never, every time I go to a 12-step meeting, I go, I've never left and been like, fucking, that was a bad one. It was one of the dicks. Yeah, it was just like, all right, that was, at worst, you're the same. But you're never worse. Yeah, I've're never worse. Yeah. I've had a couple worse. But then I think you feel like you're talking about the destructive people, the monsters who can make these.

It's not the program's fault. It's more just like the people says something shitty. Yeah, personalities and all that stuff. And also genuine. says something shitty or... Yeah, personalities and all that stuff. And also genuine, like Debtors Anonymous is problematic. It exists mostly in Paris, New York, and Los Angeles. Those are some of the most expensive cities in the world. I haven't put that together. A Western concept where people are living in capital society.

So like, okay, like I was on a meeting in Johannesburg and it was like, we've been really having a problem with Vegas coming to the meeting. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's a real issue. Like, what is this? That's a real debtor? Yeah, what's going on? Are we... Yeah, this is supposed to help people and I don't know. Yeah, so it's a questionable

thing. Like I just go... Give me some how did you end up in Debtors Anonymous? I just didn't know how to have a job. I just didn't know. I worked in food service. I wasn't very good at it. I moved to LA. I still wasn't good at it. I started... You thought you were going to turn it around when you came out here? I wasn't very good at it. I moved to LA. I still wasn't good at it. I started- You thought you were going to turn it around when you came out here.

I don't know what I thought. I just thought- Find your voice as a food service person. I don't know. It was not a well thought out plan. Yeah, I just was just falling into a hole. I got $5,000 in medical debt. I was living in a cockroach

infested apartment. The landlord accepted sex for rent, according to my, my, uh, uh, yeah, neighbors. And I was like, what? I did not have the money for rent. So I was just like, you're like, I'm not a sex addict yet. So otherwise, otherwise I would, he's cute enough. Otherwise, I would. He's cute enough. He has that sparkle. Is he legally separated? That's what I'm into.

No. So, yeah, my OA sponsor said, I want to share this with DA. And it was just basic social services of two people. I mean, I was self-motivated. I had asked two people. It's called a pressure relief group in DA who sat down with me and my situation and said, gave me a bunch of suggestions that I could or didn't have to follow through on, but some of

which were like, call everyone you know, find a safe place to be, find a safe place you can move to now. Like I found a couch that I could live on for a month that was safer than where I was. Then what are all your skills? You have a BA and you can type on for a month, you know, that was safer than where I was. Yeah. Then what are all your skills? You have a BA and you can type 60 words a minute? Sign up for six temporary disease. You know, like ideas that I just didn't think of and also didn't have the support around. So now I had this whole group of people saying, yeah, call us. If you're scared to go to work, I'll be there with you.

You know, like, because I was scared to not know how to do something. And yeah, so I worked as a secretary for about 10 years while still doing stand-up. And yeah, it was just about learning how to take care of myself as an adult. And I just didn't know how to do that before, which is embarrassing. And it's definitely a privileged problem um but i'm grateful that 12-star programs were there because it was like yeah it wasn't in a ton and it wasn't really so much dead as much of it was i i didn't yeah i think those groups are there for whatever you need them for use them for whatever you need and like take what you want leave the

rest like the the take the rest. Take the good parts. Take the helpful parts. And the rest, just be like, I don't fuck with that part. That's nonsense to me. Yeah. Some people say, oh, you got to go all in. I'm like, no, sit poolside. Just go to a meeting once every six months.

You're going to be better off just knowing that other people are out there and you're not by yourself. You'll feel better. Yeah, that's simple. You're not the only one. Yeah. It's like, oh, that's 80% comfort right there. You're like 80% better. Like, okay, so I'm not isolated.

I'm not a loser. I'm not an ostracized. But every cult or any group, once you get into something, they're like, you know, you go to join your gym. This is the greatest gym. This is the greatest gym. This is the best gym, isn't it? You know who I love at this gym? Sarah.

And then I also love Jesse. I love Sarah because she's at 6 a.m. You know, like everyone has to tell you exactly what you need to do in order to have the best experience. And it's like, that's just not true. You know, just go enjoy it for what it is. And, or, you know, or not. I always want to say when people go, I have a, I have a woman, I want you to date or whatever. I want to set you up. I want to go. All right. What, what kind of movies do you think I like? Like, just what do you know? What do you think you

know about me? And then, but people just assume that their way is the way. Oh, yeah. And it's just not. Yeah. It's a way. It feels like the way because you're a singular person. Yeah, no. Well, and yeah, it's very comforting to think.

Yeah, no, I, yeah, I have plenty of, I feel embarrassed how many times I've told somebody. Like, I remember I told somebody in DA, she was like worried about making rent or whatever. And I was like, oh, well, just, you know, sign up at a temp agency. And she's like, no, I think I'm an actor and I'm going to do okay. And I'm like, okay. She's a huge actor. Like, she's super famous. She owns buildings.

I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. I made a bit of a miscalculation. Right. But what are the odds she was good at acting?

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? What are the odds she'd be? No one's fucking. Well, you were right. What are the odds that she,

what is she, one of the biggest stars in the country? Like what fucking, nobody's that. You played the, you were right to play the numbers. Well, I don't know.

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Neilism. Yes. Nihilism. Nihilism. That's, Deba, your next album, Dealism. Yeah, like the point of anything. And, you know, I'm old, crone, white lady.

Nobody needs to hear what I have to say. You know what I'm saying? Like, I definitely need to cede the mic. Unfortunately, it's right in front of me to all sorts of new generational voices that are so much more interesting and also like uh need to be heard you know so uh that that's sometimes i go oh why am i still do you think that's nihilism yes i think in terms of like the meaning of yeah yeah just do you Just what do you think that is?

I mean, nihilism is just reducing things to meaninglessness to me. That's my, what I believe the definition is. Okay. I may not be smart enough to know what nihilism is. I mean, but that's,

that's a new thing. I think I'm going to look it up. No, let's do it. Cause the, why, why have a podcast if you can't make people wait for word definitions? Total rejection of established laws and institutions.

Anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity. Total and absolute destructiveness, especially toward the world at large and including oneself. In philosophy, it's an extreme form of skepticism, the denial of all real existence, or the possibility on an objective basis for truth. Well, let's just say I did not know what the definition of it was. Man, I thought it was about personal meeting, but it's about meaning for everyone. But even the thing that you were describing of feeling like you should step aside or something, that feels you should step aside or something. Yeah. That feels like shame or guilt or something.

Shame. Or like guilt or I guess the word's guilt. Well, or. It's utopian in that I don't know. You're fucking great. Right. Like you're, how many people do you think are? Yeah.

There's 40 U's. Yeah. Yes. There aren't. There are. Have you been to Oklahoma City lately? No, but I'm saying, like, this didn't happen overnight. And I also don't think you're preventing anyone from being...

There's, like, let them go on ticket. Let them go. A, let them go to Largo. Let them be on ticket. Like, there's places they can... If they're great, they will, they will bump. They will bump you. No, I know. Like they will replace you.

Yes. You don't have to like help them. Yeah. No, not like don't, don't fight them. But I'm saying you're excellent at what you do. Well, and I guess what I'm saying, like, I guess the nihilistic part is like, what is the point of anything that, like, the things that you've been sold, or I feel like I took as truth, as like, what success is, what will bring you happiness, that those things, I think, have proved themselves to be sort of empty. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. things I think have proved themselves to be sort of empty. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Or that it's harming other people, that it's actually, like, I don't know if you've had this, with the widening gap between people's salaries. Like, I've had so many friends my age who've had to move out of Los Angeles. So I'm now isolated from my peers. Right. Just like going, oh. Your plan worked. This plan, now isolated from my peers. You're just like going, your plan worked this plan. Yeah. Yeah. The plan, the amassing money plan. Yeah. Nailed it. Yeah. Girl. Good job. Yeah. Now

everybody has to move to Arizona. Yeah. Yeah. So the, the dream isn't, um, well, we're just sold values that are garbage. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's money in it for greedy. Yeah. But I don't know how to find. I don't know how to find it. I give money. It's like I give money to people personally. I give money to charities.

I don't think I shouldn't get my portion of the door at a comedy show. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I hear that. I mean, girl. So, like what what you're not taking percentage of my merch what is this vegas right but that's what i'm saying like what i don't know if that made people move out no no no i know exactly what you mean it's just once you get into how to dismantle it yeah it's like i don't i can't i don't think I can. Yeah. But I also know, I was saying to somebody yesterday, like the ending of Chinatown, the movie Chinatown.

Yes. Okay. I haven't seen it in a long time. It's an incredibly evil person gets away with an incredibly evil thing. Okay. And Jack Nicholson is like f like fuming okay and the guy goes like forget it jake it's chinatown like and it's like that ethos where you see like oh wait a minute i mean the reason church is popular and the bible's popular is because it's science fiction.

Right. It's science fiction based on the idea that good values will be rewarded. Yeah. Which clearly, I mean, Joel Osteen's presence and his net worth shows that. And greatness. Let's be fair. And greatness. Well, he's an excellent speaker.

He's coming with a spouse. He's coming with abundance for your family. Yeah. So I, and maybe that, I think that definitely is ego or saying, oh, I'm going to fix anything. I don't think it's ego. I think it's a human urinary.

I think you're right to- Yeah, just feeling like, oh, fuck. Yeah. Like these, everybody deserves to like my i have a friend who lives right next to the freeway share a sharing house and um has uh people on house people living out in front so there's a ton of meth and people uh selling drugs and stuff it just sounds like oh my oh my God, that fucking sucks, man. And so we've had comics come live with us for a while, because we have a guest bedroom.

And then that was stressful in a fresh way, which maybe we could have handled, but we did it for a year and a half. And then we're like, I can't. That's a long time. I commend you for that. That's the thing. It's like homeless people have moved in front of your friend's place.

It's bad for the homeless people. Yeah. No, it's bad for it. And it's bad for your friend. Like the homeless people aren't like, this is, I made it. Yeah. Right. This is the shit.

Finally, I'm in front of that dude's house. Yeah. Oh, God. Like we talked, like I dreamt of. And your friend, it's dangerous for your friend because homeless people are on drugs and a lot of times mentally ill. Like a lot of times mentally ill. So there, and then you go, let me try something. You're stressed out.

I had a friend let a homeless person come live with her. Really? How did that work out? It didn't work out good. Oh, shit. Like it, you know, because mentally ill

and it's, yeah. Or like a stranger or like the remedies for these things are incredibly complicated and difficult and more or less impossible

to pull off individually, I think. Well, and I read about, did you read about that little town in Belgium that takes in, it has a tradition over the past five or thousand years, whatever, to take in people who are mentally retarded or mentally ill? No. Yeah. It's a little town in Belgium that's done it for many, many years and they still do it. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And I was like, yeah, it's a little town in Belgium that's done it for many, many years and they still do it. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. And I was like, gosh, I mean, I don't know.

We'll, we'll see. Scott and I were, we're both bipolar, so it might be a little weird to get, but if we got somebody, Are you bipolar? Yeah. Yeah. Bipolar too. You know, it's the gladiator sandal version of, it's a sexy one. It's a sexy one.

It goes up to the, it's a sexy one. It's a sexy one. Goes up to the name. Yeah, up to the name. It's a pretty cool bipolar. And how was that? Pretty good. You know, I mean, I'm here. Yeah, no, listen. But Taylor Tomlinson was here.

She has it. Oh, yeah, yes. And I didn't know until she said it on her special. I was very nervous to tell friends of mine I was bipolar because I thought they would think of me differently. And then I told all my friends and nobody did. And it was actually pretty insulting. Where I was like, oh, shit.

Okay. Is it hypomanic? Hypomanic. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like full on. No. Yeah. I haven't had any psychotic episodes.

Yeah. So, and I don't know. I have friends who are bipolar one and, you know, it's just a different experience. But do you think it's helpful to be with somebody that is also bipolar too? I think that's definitely a reason that we connected so hard because I was just like the fact that he is moody, you know, like we both have. And I'm just like, are you really mad right now? And I'm like, I'm really mad too. Like he would, one of the best jokes

he would do is I would be like, God, I'm feeling depressed. He's like, I'm depressed too. And then he'd pretend to be depressed.

And I was like, and then it turned out, we've been together like 10 years. So it turns out he is, he is depressed. I was like, he was genuinely depressed.

So he's, he's on meds now. But yeah, like that was interesting for him, I think, because he's a painter. And part of with getting together, it was like we both kind of got more stability, you know, in living together. And then also, you know, my income is so good. Like we don't really need, you know, a giant. He doesn't need to be bringing in. He used to work a lot at construction sites.

He can paint full-time now. He sells paintings. ScottMarvelCassidy.com. I think realizing, oh, I'm married. I have this person I love. We own a home. I still feel terrible. I think that was when he realized he needed some meds yeah like uh which that happened

to me but again that's what's funny is like it's a different version of like the american capitalist dream right right but it's you get money in car whatever and. And then you're like, okay, not any better. And then he went, he did it the right way. Yeah. And was still like, fuck. Yeah. Well, and I don't know if this is this way in other industries, but definitely show business, like once you make it, they just go, oh, you did all that.

You can work 16 hours a day. Well, let's have some more. Do you want some do some more stuff? Like they just want to add more and more stuff. And let's, do you want to sell a perfume? You're the only person who I ever heard. You said it to me one time, like years ago, where you were doing the sitcom.

You had a show. It's the Maria Baffert show. And you were like, I was exhausted. I can't work. I can only work eight hours a day. Yeah. Yeah, I can't do that. I did it for two seasons, which were very short seasons.

And it was, I don't remember most of it. Yeah. And it was the best possible scenario. Like, it was about, the whole show was about mental illness. Everyone was like, Maria, do you need to lie down? I had a tent on set. So between takes, I could just go on and lay down. And I just, it was beyond my abilities.

I'm amazed that it happened. And you had good writers too. You had Pam Brady. Oh my God, they were so great. The Arrested Development guy whose name is escaping me yeah Mitch Hurwitz

yeah and I just felt so I felt so terrible in terms of you know you really want to bring your A game and I was just like

I needed to sleep like 12 hours a night which is not good with making television or movies they do not want that sleep is the worst thing you can do.

It is. It really is. Yeah. Which I totally understand the cost of renting equipment and all that stuff. So, yeah, I was very lucky to have that experience. But I don't think, yeah, I wouldn't do it again for sure. Or, yeah.

But I love how everyone always, yeah, like, let's do french hours we're only gonna shoot you know from three to five p.m and then it never yeah it never turns yeah yeah it gets german hours very quickly and you know what german era i'm talking about my listeners do my good ones my the behind the paywall, those guys. Berlin? Yeah. In the 30s. Number three block. Although we've probably got eight by now. Okay. My phone.

My phone. Oh, God, yes. Well, it just went off a couple times. Have you put parameters around your phone? No. No. You should. Okay. What do you do? Took Instagram off Oh

Took it off Smart I do have someone do my social media I mean that's huge She likes Yeah so she I like I told her to like everything

And if somebody Says a hateful thing Also like it Yep Yeah Why risk it? Well And you know

Hate speech is also a craft. Fuck, that's funny. A buddy of mine, Kevin Christie, has an observation that evil people have the best flags. Like the swastika with the red and the black. Like a spider. You want to talk about fucking logo with a scent? I black, like, like a spider. You want to talk about fucking logo with a scent? I mean, fucking strong. And then, uh, ISIS had a killer's flag.

Oh, I don't even remember ISIS's flag. Oh, I'll never forget it. All right. So you just can't put your phone down. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. And you know,

it's great because it is what I love about it is being on the road as a comedian. Like there's none of that. I don't have to be lonely if I choose to be. So that is wonderful. Then it's just up to me to pick up the phone and call people. But it's when I start staring at Instagram and going, I would like to make well-choreographed videos of me dancing. Wait, how does, I don't know how to dance. Like you start having all these longings for stuff.

For stuff that you've never valued in your life. And now it's your entire, you want to dedicate it all. Yeah, why can't I get a raccoon in my own home? Yeah, I want to be a rise and grind finance bro. Did you see the new thing with Matthew McConaughey and how he's doing sort of a life coaching thing? I read about, I read the review of it. That was so strange. I don't know how I read about, I read the review of it. That was so strange. I don't know how I feel about Matt.

Like he, I like him as a performer, but as like his appeal as like, he's getting like, getting gravitas. And like, he's like an elder statesman. Yeah.

It's like, he's going into like Roy Rogers territory, which, okay. I mean, God bless. But, but charging people for a seminar is a bit like-

Charging people, that feels like, no, man. I know. Well, that's where you, to your point of earlier, it's like, how much fucking money do you need? I never know when I look at people doing stuff, I'm like, how much money do you need? Yeah. And if you ever need to go to one of my shows,

and I know a lot of people don't, and you don't have money, just email me you get off my website ariamayamforbay at gmail.com and I will get you in free

in blocks of two because I don't always believe people when they say I have so many friends who want to come see you no you don't very quickly

not a block yes you've chosen odd places to do to to film specials. Yes. Why? Sloth. Is that what it is?

Yeah. One in my house was just, I didn't have the energy. I just didn't want to go anywhere. And my parents loved me. And I was just like, I'm going to do it in front of those guys. Great. They've got skin in the game. Sure, literally.

Five feet, six of it. And then, uh, it sounded creepy when I was like, she had five foot six. If you're just joining us, we're talking to a lesbian serial killer. Yeah.

Epidermis. uh, yeah. And then I did one where- Bowling alley. Bowling alley. Oh, that one was, the premise was, I just always think it's so funny when somebody sees you at a small event

and they go, like I had a friend who saw me at an open mic and they were like, good for you. I mean, it just seems like you're really, you're doing it and that's good. And then I did a bigger show and she was like, you're pretty good. You could keep doing this.

And then she saw me on a TV special and she was like, Maria, you have a gift. It's all about the presentation. Condition, yeah. And the condition. And so that's what I did is set it on a park bench, in a bowling alley, and then in a big venue. I don't think it, I don't know if that's what it read as a special,

if people knew that's what I was trying to say, but it was, I thought it was very funny. Did you explain it? I didn't. Oh my God. What a fucking maniac. I sure didn't.

And I don't think they got it. And I could have put a graphic up for three seconds. But why do that? I hate explaining jokes. I don't want to explain it. It helps. Not joke structure. Yeah.

I should have thrown a graphic up. Oh, well, too late. Old baby. Still out on Netflix. Sure is. Now you have thrown a graphic up. Oh, well, too late. Old baby. Still out on Netflix. Sure is. Now you know what it's about. Now that you know what it's about. Maybe it'll be fun this time. Narcissism.

Number four, narcissism. I like it so far. Do you know what I mean? I like your... I mean, again, is there anything better in small doses than narcissism? I love, I love that about Los Angeles. A narcissist in full flight. Yes. Like a bald eagle.

Go ahead. Yeah. I just, it doesn't, it doesn't look good as you get older. I realized like, I just, I mean, look good as you get older, I realize. Like, I just, I mean, my dad was a very thoughtful person, but he was also very needy as he got older. Like, kind of like, yeah. My mom, when she was dying, she said, honey, keep smiling.

You just, smiles have interest in people. See how they're doing. Sm just, smiles have interest in people. See how they're doing. Smiles, smiles. Like, you don't want to be a pain in the ass as you get older. And so that's my attempt. How are you doing? How are you doing, Neil? With narcissism?

Or is this, do you just fall into a Carnegie hole? No. Oh, wait, what does that mean? Dale Carnegie hole, where you go. Oh, Dale Carnegie hole. Where you going? Oh, no. And you call me by my first name. Oh, wait. What does that mean? Dale Carnegie Hall. Where you going? Oh, Dale Carnegie Hall. Where you going? Oh, no.

And you called me by my first name. No, no. That was a genuine kneel. That was not meant to elicit a sale. I don't know if I agree with your approach to narcissism.

Meaning, I don't, a failed narcissist, there's nothing worse than a failing narcissist. Okay. Because it's, they're like, they think they're, it's like worse lies than normal.

Okay. With a narcissist, it's like, they seem to think the world of themselves. And sometimes the world thinks very highly of them. Right. That's bearable. Yes. It's when someone still thinks very highly of themselves and the world is going like, what? And they're carrying on as if they're still on top.

Obviously, I'm sure you meet people who are genuinely go, oh, you deserve every right of a narcissist. Like in terms of- We should award it. Unbelievably talented and gifted person. And then yet they are not. Like they are thoughtful people. Like Henry Winkler, if you've ever met him. Sure, I haven't, but I hear-

I've met him a couple times. I hear mixed things. No, I'm kidding. I've heard everyone's like, he's a prince. So nice. Very nice, kindly person. And so, yeah, but he wouldn't have to be. Like you'd go, oh- he could get away with being a

little bit more of a dick yeah he could go yeah i'd like to have that kale massaged again like yeah it's a little rough on my i like the idea of him based on a massage table and then and then another massage table with kale getting getting massaged as he's getting right but i guess it's i what i when i think of like a guy like henry lincoln he just seems like preternaturally kind yeah yeah yeah and and you've seen people go from obscure to very famous and it's like i'm not gonna say it looks hard, but it seems like you can see at your level of popularity, my level of popularity, you can see how you would lose your mind and lose perspective. Oh my God. And the stress and the,

oh my God. And then all of a sudden these people that you're employing like you're employing 200 200 people yes like that's that's a lot to um hold lightly people treat you different it's just odd no i think in the stir uh spur of the moment i i don't know how anyone keeps it together uh and i have not experienced anywhere near that kind of uh success so i i just don't know how people do it. Yeah. I don't know. But you have an eye on your narcissism. Oh, yes.

She's a pretty little girl. My question is, though, let's say you're being narcissistic, right? You're just having one of your narcissists. Yeah. narcissistic, right? You're just having one of your narcissists. Yeah. Thinking, oh, why can't I get a Tony Choco Lonely Bar and eat half of it?

What if you're fucking funny all day? Do you know what I mean? To your point about if someone's very talented and narcissistic, you're like, you deserve to be narcissistic? It's not good for the person.

Like, it's not good for me. Like I felt like, like I know when I was on a TV show and all of a sudden you're like the Faberge egg that everyone's concerned about. Like I call it, don't wake the baby. Yeah. Like in your case,

it truly was. Yeah, exactly. Cause you had a 10. Yeah. Um, exactly. Because you had a 10. Three is in there. Yeah. Yeah. It's so bizarre and

it was very confusing. Like, even though I could see it happening. I know. It's hard not to go like, maybe they're right. Maybe I am a criminal.

Maybe this is the way I'm supposed to be treated. All the time. And people have been fucking me. I thought they were fucking me. Yeah, that my- And they were fucking me. Every story I tell is genius.

And it's like, what? Yeah, so that I think, yeah. You're right. I'm contradicting myself, but I was telling somebody today, I was like, it's good to be a stranger to people. That's a natural human. I have to come up to people who do not know me and present myself in a certain way and treat them a certain way to make a human connection, to do an exchange, whatever. If everywhere you go, people know you, that's insane. That's crazy making. You will go insane. And they're excited

to see you. Yeah. And they usually need something. They need a picture. They need to tell you a story. They need you to focus why they're telling you that important story. Well, there I just tell somebody it's like just customer service. Yeah. Are you like, what do you need? Do you need a picture? Okay, come on. No, no. We're going to do it. Like just, yeah. Yeah. Let me, how do I neutralize this? Yes. I'm begging you. Help you. Yeah. So you're right. I don don't how does your narcissism manifest itself i park illegally uh and assume that it's okay because i can afford the tickets and i go i think that's pretty shitty you know you go you know if everyone does this society totally that's right it breaks down but i have news for you everyone does do it and society is breaking down we'll be right back um for real like i think that's definitely a thing um i definitely

oh this is a weird thing that's super gross as a headliner now that i headline i'll get anxious if the middle's going long i'll get weird and i And I'm like, who gives a shit, Maria? Like, but I'll go, there are 26 minutes now. How will I be able to follow that? Or yes, that's, I'm like, that's really embarrassing. I am the same way. To me, that's my fixation with rules. Oh, really?

Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, I think yeah i think like it's like no we agreed that you would do a thing i like the show a certain length and you've been brought here to do the job and i feel like you're doing it intentionally everyone's doing everything intentionally to me they're not behaving behaving like having a subjective experience. It's all aimed at me and you have the balls to come here and say that I'm a narcissist. Yeah. I know. I just, I think that's because it's all about fear because I remember, yeah, when I was first having, I could, I would never even paid attention. I'd just be like,

oh my God. And then it's just now as I get older, because I've gone through the process so many times, and I'm like, I somehow have this belief like I only do well if the audience isn't too tired, which there is some truth to that. Like I'm wordy and, you know, whatever, tiresome. I'm a tiresome comedian. Don't come to me for a good time and uh yes so if you know sometimes i won't do well if some if a crowd pleaser goes up in front of me yeah somebody who's like awesome extroverted you know gets everybody agreeing on one concept yeah i'm gonna probably tank but but, but yeah. But I don't think that,

I think that's a fair self-protection mechanism. Yeah. I also think it's like, who booked this fucking hack to mentor you? No. No,

I'm saying what, the person you described, I don't like. Well, no, I think some people are great comedians. It's just like,

it's not a great match. A different style. Yeah. A different style where you're just like, oh, it would have been better if I went up first and then that person went up and got it or not hired me at all. Like, that's the main thing.

I always just want to tell people, like, I don't do nonprofit gigs anymore because I like, there's one fan who's hired me. The people in Napa Valley drinking wine. Do not have any relationship or care for you at all. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah. Totally agree. The people in Napa Valley drinking wine. Do not have any relationship or care for you at all. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah. Totally agree.

Where they go, we're passionate about you at our network or whatever. I go, who? Yeah. Who's passionate? Do I need to make a phone call? Yeah. Is your boss passionate? Because I'm not an easy sell. You're not going to be able to. It's not going to be a phone call? Yeah. Like, is it, is your boss passionate? Cause I'm not an easy sell.

You're not going to be able to, it's not going to be a quick sell through. So like, it's not waste our time. I got clapped off stage when I was opening for a Howie Mandel for a schizophrenia research. But I was like, right on. Okay.

I see you ladies. Yep. I deserve you ladies. Yep. I deserve this or whatever. Like it's the, it's a joke I've never been able to do, but you know, when you don't remember, but going on app dates where you on like on the, on aircraft carriers, planes, like Top Gun, they land and they get like clipped on a hook that's how they stop so quickly yes and if they don't clip the hook

they just have to take back off immediately okay we should be able to do that in the first 10 seconds of dates where you just go like nope and just keep

but the audience is like that's that's about as good an outcome as possible like yeah not this isn't working.

We can't, no more. Nope, get Howie out here. It's just more on speed. Yeah, no, that's the thing. The audience isn't wrong. Like I feel, and I feel for them, but I've also been contracted. That's where the beer cans start being thrown.

Sure. There's a real misunderstanding yeah but it was one person who's and then they go I thought you did great

and you're like you did I don't think I even got that after I was like anyways it's alright at black shows

they go man you did your thing if you bum you did your thing oh that's awesome number five heckling you don't like You did your thing. If you bum. You did your thing. Oh, that's awesome. Number five, heckling. You don't like heckling, huh?

Well, now I see it on the Instagram and it seems like all the kids are loving it. I know. But I know I wouldn't want to welcome that. I wouldn't want to post clips of that because I don't want to have to do crowd work. Yeah. I like it if it becomes interesting. I would welcome that. I wouldn't want to post clips of that because I don't want to have to do crowd work. Yeah. I like it if it becomes interesting. I was at the Ice House in Pasadena. My older friend, Al Deas,

says it's a whole new way to do its own by the people on the Lakers. So there's a lot of sports memorabilia and it's a really great club. It's very fancy. And I was being heckled there the other night. And, you know. Like positively or ask a question? It was an old dude suggesting that I was a rug muncher or like an old timey gay slur.

Yeah. I was like, wow, that's old school. And so now instead of sometimes I would have things to say, and now I just try to be curious. How did you get here tonight? What series of events got you to this moment? Also, what world do you live in where rug muncher is like anything, let alone a thing you would yell unsolicited in a public space. Surrounded by memorabilia. Yeah.

No less. Yeah. In the, yeah, in the. Heart of Glendale. Heart of Pasadena. Pasadena. Sorry, guys. Well, and yeah, and I was doing well.

So it was an interesting choice. and he had a buddy with him. Anyways, I ended up getting him kicked out, but then the buddy stayed and yeah. Anyways, I get fascinated of like, oh, I want to somehow, but I think it's like trauma where you live, relive trauma and you go, I want it this time. I want it to go better. Like I want it to be healed. Yeah. Like Scott and I, we have places where our trauma kind of matches where it's like, like his anger, you know, when he gets angry, I like, I can't handle it when somebody gets angry at me, you know, like I just completely shut down. I too am from Philly. Really? Yeah. And have a bad temper. Okay.

There you go. So, so he, I'm on Scott's side. Whatever you say, I'm on Scott's side. Well, you're not wrong.

I mean, yeah. I'm all like, yeah, why can't I just go fuck a cookie? All right. I don't know.

Is that what people in Philly say? Yeah, it's the Philly thing. Italians. I don't know. Hoagies. Yeah.

Cookie fuckers. Cookie fuckers. Cookie fuckers. A peak friend. Someone yelled cookie fucker at me the other night. Jerry Seinfeld treats it like a customer service issue. Okay. He was like, sir, you seem unhappy with the show. What can I do?

Oh, that's... And he did it one night at the Strip in 1978. And he just kept... It's a great approach. Wow. Like, sir, what's your name? Okay. Gary, what...

You seem to be unhappy. I'm assuming it kills. No, it doesn't. And it's like effective. And even if it doesn't, it's real. Like it's like saying, hey, I see you. I see that you're uncomfortable, that you've started talking or not paying attention.

Yeah, so something's going wrong. We're not connecting or I'm not doing my job in your opinion. So yeah, and that's what I would like. I would like to have a real interaction with someone, even if it's shitty, you know, like I just rather have. What are you, what's, what are you doing? What are you, what's happening? Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a, most of the time they're just so drunk though. Well, that's the thing is people can start crying and, but that's, I do kind of want to give people,

But that's, I do kind of want to give people, be kind. Like sometimes, you know, you're called in off the street with all your girlfriends. You've already had six drinks. They're like, come in and see a comedy show. Oh my God. She's really funny. We should all go see. They've all sit down.

They've all, and then five of them are like, this fucking sucks. And they can't leave until they're built to pay. So it's like, I'm so sorry this has happened. You know, how can we, you know, you be quieter so that I can go on with my nonsense, you know? And, and yeah, and, and also I'll bring cash on stage, like to go, I'll pay you to leave. I've done that. Yeah, because sometimes comedy has poor, the advertising is false advertising. Yeah. It's like, it's not going to be for everybody.

I feel like that would work for, it seems smug when I did it. But that's cute. That's your on-stage persona. That's who you are in your core no but the guy was mad I was like hey I'll pay

I'll pay you what'd you pay here you go it's okay yeah like it's okay it's oh

maybe it didn't seem it was 10 years ago but it was it was fun it doesn't matter you know like I think that's what people or at least what I want

in a show is something real yeah like I don't want to be like, fuck you, you idiot. Yeah. Nice shirt. Shut the fuck up. Cock sucker.

Stupid cunt. You know, like, I would rather have like, yeah, who are you? What's your name? What's going on tonight? Yeah. But I also still get scared. Like, my legs start shaking. It's unsettling, and it's not what I moved to LA for.

Right, right. Yeah, no, I love that about LA, that there is no, that's why I didn't move to New York. Yeah. Because I was like, LA is going to be like people being irrationally positive. Yeah. About everything. All the time.

You're a genius. You're amazing. Anyways, I'll never see you again. Yeah. Bye. I don't even know who you are. All the time. You're a genius. You're amazing. Anyways, I'll never see you again. Yeah. Bye. I don't even know who you are. You do you. I've never heard of you

and I don't, I'm not going to Google you, but I know that you're a genius and you're amazing. What is the, the thing I want to wrap it up with is how,

what have you done that's been helpful? Oh, definitely all those 12 step groups that I totally shit on. I love them. I go to them, I would say, probably one every other day because they are free. And yeah, I'm going to go to one tonight, Pasadena, 730.

I don't know why I'm saying it in that way. Because it's at the Ice House. Because it's at the Ice House. Because it's at the Ice House. And what else do I do? Were you always sort of character-y like this? Meaning like when you were a kid? Were you doing it like? I definitely got attention by doing different voices.

Okay. And stuff like that. Yeah. I was shy. And my sister is more the funny one in our family. She is hilarious. You should have my sister on. Not going to. Very good. I'm not doing that. But yeah, so I would do anything to try to get some attention. Got it. Okay. So the cults have helped? Cults. Meds. Oh my God, meds. Yeah.

Meds. Medicine is the best medicine. It really is. I do not. It has changed my life completely. I don't. All-stars. Give me your all-star meds. Seroquel, antipsychotic.

Take it to go to sleep at night. 100 milligrams. Thank you. 1,000 milligrams of Depakote. That's a mood stabilizer as well as a thing they use for seizures. But it's awesome. And then 40 milligrams of Prozac to top it off. You sprinkle it?

Oh, yeah. You have that like a Prozac grinder? Yeah. I also have a nitro cold brew at the beginning of every day, which really shoots me into the ninth dimension. Sure. So that's helpful. And friendships and yeah, trying to focus more on relationships,

hanging out with people. Yeah. That's the thing anyone remembers about their lives. Nobody fucking remembers anything about their jobs. Everyone only remembers my friends when we did this and when somebody said they love me. Do you think you'll remember our job? I think I'll remember huge episodes from my job.

I will remember some things, but... I'm not talking about like the paperwork. I'm talking about... Yeah, I'm not talking about like the paperwork I'm talking about. Um, I, yeah, I think the, the feeling useful part, like when I've done a job, like I'll feel like, or somebody says, oh, that really helped me. Or the friends that you're working with. Yes. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I mean.

Yeah. I totally, I totally remember that. I'm, um, so relationships and doggies got two doggies and my husband who is a delight and he's super funny. Yeah. He's very funny person. Um, all right,

here's the final question that I, it's feels pretentious for some reason. No, usually it's fun. I don't know what you did to me. I know. Um, I don't know why you ruined this question.

Move biopic Maria Bamford biopic. Okay. who plays you what's the arc oh my god um I want Tim and Eric

okay to play great just give two more white men jobs and um then uh

yeah what the arc is well the arc is um Well, the arc is, yeah, that it's weird how long I live. Like for someone who thought so much about suicide, it's like she just keeps living. She keeps not killing herself. Or like you get into your 90s and you're like, fucking hell. My mom told me she was ready 20 years ago.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. But we have this thing where we have to keep living. Have to keep living. So it would be a very slow French film, but with Tim and Eric. She's still alive.

Just different. It could just be a sequence where you just go like, 10 years old,'m gonna kill myself and then dissolve to 20 you're like she's still here yeah

I'm gonna kill myself another fucking dissolve to 30 she's still around how is she and Tim and then Eric

and then Tim and then Eric for some reason I want Run the Jewels the band oh Mike and LP to play you.

They remind me of Tim and Eric for some reason. Okay, great. I want to get Thundercat in there as a musician in that Tim and Eric world. What do you think? But all right, so the nihilism and the atheism, do you think that life is meaningful? I think what you put onto it, you know, that if you create the, the meaning also,

if you have the right brain, like to create meaning in your life, then that's an, and do you think you have the right brain? Now I do. Oh my God. Yeah. If I have,

if I have enough, uh, caffeine and all the meds, I'm, I'm good. I'm good. Or, uh,

yeah, I'm pretty psyched. You know? You're so fucking funny. You're so cool and so funny. Oh my gosh, thanks. Maria Bamford, everybody. Thanks. I'm so fun.

Everybody wants to have it. They want to have it. Brand. I'm in. All you have to do is open, open up your hand, my man