Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Matteo Lane

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Matteo Lane (Hairplugs & Heartache) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 00:43 Andrew Schulz 4:30 Being a Gay Comedian 13:30 Being Gay Now vs. Then 15:28 Coming out of the closet  18:40 Sponsor: Public Rec 21:01 Sponsor: Tushy 22:36 Anxiety 27:30 Sensitive 30:50 Dimming his own light for others 40:38 Being Gay in Relationships 48:08 Afraid of Not Being Liked  49:23 Being Alone  50:30 Fear of Looking Like A Bad Person 54:09 Sponsor: Mando 55:50 Sponsor: Aura 57:34 Feeling Left Out 1:00:50 Too In His Head  1:04:30 Being Gay Now vs. Then 1:07:53 Fear-based 1:11:10 Dream for Himself ---------------------------------------------------------- Watch Matteo Lane: Hairplugs & Heartache: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2rxborNVsc Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsors: Visit https://www.publicrec.com & use promo code: NEAL for 20% off your order. Visit https://www.hellotushy.com/NEAL for 10% off your entire order. Visit https://www.shopmando.com use promo code NEAL for $5 off your Mando Starter Pack                                                                                                                                                                                                       Visit https://www.auraframes.com & use promo code: NEAL for $35 off your order. Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code [NEAL] at Mandopodcast.com/NEAL #mandopod Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, before you watch this thing, hit subscribe, would you? Quit it with the, what is it? Hold on, let me look it up. This is gonna be worth it. Quit it with the avoidant attachment style. Just hit it. Don't you want me to feel good? Subscribe.

Hi, Neil Brennan of the Blocks Podcast. My guest today is a social media sensation? Sure. It's a burden, clearly. You're, I mean, I know you from basically from social media. It's my only option. Yeah, we'll get into that. Mateo Lane, he's fucking hilarious. Go watch his clips.

Hey, everyone. And watch his entire, I watched the entire hair plug special yesterday. Oh, thanks. Annie Lennox. That's how you know I watched the whole thing. Shultz was instrumental in your, Schultz, from the outside in Schultz just seems bombastic. We got Cuban style.

But as a person, he's a very sweet, generous guy. Yeah. Can you explain to people how Schultz helped you? Sure. Yeah, I mean, it's so funny. I just talked to Mike, I did Mike Birbiglia's podcast. Yeah. And he was like, with your kind of an audience, AKA gay people, he goes, you know, how do you, how do you do something like Schultz's show?

Well, Birbiglia is homophobic and I'm, I'm in real trouble. Can you imagine? Can you imagine Mike Birbiglia saying anything that? Yeah, exactly. And I said, well, I'm like me and Andrew are from the same generation, open mics. And we did a couple of MTV shows together, Girl Code and Guy Code.

But I had been kind of chugging along for a while. And pretty much the only place that would book me was The Cellar. And Estee and Nome were like, no, you're funny, we'll book you. But everywhere else, I couldn't figure it. I think also, it was before the pandemic, before social media, it was like, what kind of gay person, we'll book you. But everywhere else, I couldn't figure it. I think also like, it was before the pandemic,

before social media, it was like, what kind of gay person do I have to be for this audition? Or how much can I talk about it on stage? Or who do I- Was the pandemic the difference maker? Yeah, because I remember like, the pandemic happened and it's like, there's no FOMO. I mean, me and Chris Rock aren't working, you know what I mean? So I just played Fortnite for a couple years.

And afterwards, I remember doing a show in Miami. My agent was like, we'll do like a Thursday night at the Miami Improv. And I sold 19 tickets and they canceled it. I had a tough weekend at the Miami Improv as well. So I called Schultz. I don't know what hit me. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

And I was like, well, he really figured it out. And I just didn't, it's like the answers were all under my nose. But anyway, I texted him and I said, can you talk? And he immediately called. And he said, get Trump on your podcast? That was, look, that was wild. Yeah, yeah, but God bless, God bless them both.

But he did, he talked to me for two hours. And he said everything no one else said to me. He was like, take the hour, because Netflix kept saying no. He said, take the hour that they said no to you for three times before yeah on three mics I wanted to name my hair plugs and heartache special Netflix said no, but I think that's funny I would have said I would have I would go with that I know and I'm doing with Hulu, but I so but he

Just talked to me for like two hours. He was walking around the village I was in Italy on vacation visiting my family and he was like, take the hour, cut it up, caption it, send it to me, put it out, fuck these people, do it yourself. And I'm a very good follower. So I was like, great. So I did exactly that. I went home, started editing, learning how to,

I used Apple, you know, like Apple video. And now I have an editor named Chris Caso, but I would send it to him and he would critique it. He'd be like, no changes, move that, move that. And I just did it. And it was honestly, I think within two months, I sold out Cobbs. And I was like, this is, what's happening?

Well, do you think it's that algorithmic? Meaning, did you, so the people that rejected you before the pandemic, were any of them right? Do you know what I mean? You ever, I've had experiences like, where I felt rejected for so long, and then I just got better. Yeah.

Like, we both were, we both changed. Were wrong and right. Yes. It's a combination of things. I think, sure, Robbie was, maybe I was, I mean, he just, his only thing back was not right for our yeah Whatever network and stuff like that Fine, I think it's a couple things. I think one I think Robbie prof. Hi Robbie

I think they're one I think I was a little grandfathered in I think I was putting clips up at a time when it was Schultz and Sam Morell and yeah But people really started to do clips. So a little bit kind of grandfathered in like, hey, this is one of the comics doing it. But also too, I think, I don't recall, there's not a large space for openly gay men doing standup.

I think there's a big blind spot. What's funny is I had that thought. I was like, I feel like there are a lot of you, and there just aren't. Do you know what I mean? I feel like, oh no, there's, and then I'm like, what's the list? I know.

Out here it's like Justin Martindale. Tim Dillon. Right, Tim, yeah. Tolkien Booster. Yeah. I always put it this way, I'm like, cause no sad song for me. But I think for a long time too,

it's weird to be working in industry when you say there is no gay man standup who's a household name. Yeah, in 2024. Yeah, I mean it's a little weird. Yeah, it is. Because you have, I mean even like Eddie Izzard, it was so, I mean, first of all, an amazing comment. And secondly, how amazing is she to be able

to be putting herself out there at such an early time? I mean, like I can't even think of all the things, all the room. And not explaining it. No, she's just fucking funny. Like, Eddie would just go like, I don't, I dress like this. Don't worry about it. Right. Can you deal with it?

Okay. I would look at. I got great jokes. Yeah. I would look to her. I would look to Mario Cantone. Yeah. You know, I always explain to people like, because I'm like, I'm in no way, like I'm not saying there weren't gay comics, there certainly were, but you have to remember too,

like back in my day, like what was accessible to me? Okay, well that's the, the, the watching you that thought I had was like, how central, because Tim doesn't really talk about being gay on any stand up. Like a lot of people don't talk about being gay, the watching you, the thought I had was like, how central, cause Tim doesn't really talk about being gay on any stand up. Like a little bit.

How central, did you make the decision to centralize it? And do you, cause I remember talking to a young gay comic and I was like, you might wanna decide if you're a comic or a gay comic, cause it, would it have felt dishonest to not centralize it, or could you be yourself to your own, you said like you have a gay accent, right? Which is a great joke about like, he has a gay accent.

Every language has a gay accent and he does it for us. My favorite is the word for gay in Italian is just gay with an Italian accent. It's just guy. You'll watch it. But did you how did was there was it conscious or was it just like you couldn't it would have felt dishonest to not? Well I think I think like I hate answer. Everyone's experience is different, but I think that was the start. Are you on a journey?

Go ahead. I'm on a journey. I'm really, this is my brand. We're vibing. I think it's a couple of things. God, how do I say this without sounding like woe is me? One of the biggest- You've come to the right place. Go ahead.

I think one of the biggest things I ran into real early on is just exactly what you said. I was being told to decide by straight people who I was going to be before I had a chance to discover it. So I think the unfair part about being queer and doing stand up in a lot, which is predominantly straight spaces, which by the way, I had a great experience in those spaces. I found that comics, both straight men and women, were very open to whatever was happening on stage so long as they see you work hard and the jokes are there.

But I will say, I ran up real quick with, I found it really difficult to be myself, talk about my experiences, and then how do I also not pigeonhole myself? And I've given that up, but there was a long time where the gatekeepers, the bookers, the late night, the robbies, all of them, comics, whoever, they are so quick to tell you when you're gay,

what's too much? What's too much? We are so quick to tell you when you're gay, what's too much. What's too much. I did a late night show, they never aired, because the word that came back was, we'd like you to come back and do it again because it was just too gay. So even from the beginning, it's like, well, what's too straight?

So it sucks because- Nick DiPaolo. Yes. But it's almost so straight, it's gay. So I had to kind of combat that for a long time, not being taken seriously. In a way, I'm working sometimes three times as hard because I have to talk about my life,

I have to make it acceptable for an audience that doesn't know who I am every single night, bridge that gap, have to come out of the closet every night, and I have to prove that I know how to write jokes, and I have to prove that I can hang with the other com- I mean, there was a lot going on. So I think now I'm at a point where it's cool because it's like, okay, I finally sell tickets,

so I don't have to explain anything, and I can just- And also too, young comics tend to talk about the sort of who I am, what I am anything and I can just, and also too, young comics tend to talk about the sort of who I am, what I am, what I look like, the sort of documentary style comedy. Now I can just talk about whatever, and Ubers, who gives a shit? But I think for a long time it was that, and I think a lot of stuff I got because I was gay

and there was so few gay people doing standup and a lot of stuff I didn't get because I'm gay. And is it, so it's- So if you're doing because I guess I only well I see you do like clips on a normal night at the cellars. I didn't realize how gay my older brother was. As my mom made so many gay kids, can you imagine her kind of college appointment just like, all right, Sherry, let's have a look in here and everybody does that.

Everybody touch them! Do you kind of have to gird yourself for like, maybe this is a little tight, heterosexually tight audience, like they're not gonna, cause you always seem, you're fun to watch. You're like a cartoon character. Thank you. But you're, you're very fun. And so it is, because you're like a cartoon character, it's like, I watch them, like, man, fuck, if I was this charismatic, that would be,

you'd understand it would be so much easier. Well, some of it's gay and some of it's just being Italian. I can't quite tell the difference. No, I'm sure, I'm sure it's very confusing. You have a cookbook coming out as well. I do, yes. Called Your Pasta Sucks, I believe. Great.

Is that a pain or is it just like, it's all just stand up and? Now it's just stand up. I mean, that is the benefit of doing stand up for so long. Obviously you know this. It goes from, now I can kind of just talk about anything because I have my rhythm and I have my way of writing jokes and I have my Process, you know, like I did in my special I did 15 minutes just on my hair transplants. Yeah

I don't I would not have been at that point five years before that's what that's what it was interesting It was like I don't know if that was your like your crowd it was okay, but they still seemed how is it on like a On a Tuesday good. Are they meaning like? People bought it seemed to buy in right whenever I obviously used in best clips, but there seems to just be like automatic buy-in Yeah for and it's I hear straight man. I hear like everybody's be like automatic buy-in. Before, and it's, I hear straight men, I hear like everybody's just like, yeah, I'll buy into this.

Did you, was that hard to get? No, I think a couple of things, one, I mean, now it's like. It seems like the audience is your friend. Yeah. Seems like you're talking to your friend. I try to approach it that way, but I also, some of the stuff I get, there's certain, very few jokes that I won't work out

at the seller that I'm like, I'll just save I get, there's certain, very few jokes that I won't work out at the seller that I'm like, I'll just save this for my own gigs. But I mean like 0.3%. Usually I test for months at the comedy seller in front of crowds that don't know me before I bring it on the road because I wanna really make sure that it works. But I would say it's being gay on a lineup

of predominantly straight people. Although I will be honest, the seller's really good at diversifying. There's nights where there's like two straight people and the rest was just fagging out. But I would say being gay, the audience does perk up a bit. I mean, it does change the tone a little bit because there's people like, oh,

but we're also at a time now where it's like, being gay is not that taboo. Yeah. Really, we're in New York City, we're in the village, we're in a basement, it's two o'clock. I mean, come on now, like, you should expect to see a gay person on stage. But I mean, once I, once I, a lot of the material I write when you're working out these rooms, you know,

you do have to, I can't tell if it's subconscious or it was conscious, but there is a kind of bridging the gap. I have to connect with these people. So how do I tonally tell these jokes in a way that one, they're not gonna run away and two, they can relate to, whether that was when I was talking about dating or whatever else. But I mean, especially when I talk about stuff

from Call of Duty, when I go into all that stuff, I mean, just like straight people eat it up. I didn't know gay people played video games. Oh my God, are you joking? Fortnite every night. You're the first openly gay. I won't even shoot another Ariana Grande on the battlefield because I know they're gay.

Do you, you mentioned there was a part in the special where you talked about kind of for young kids, it's easier. It's just easier now. Yeah. That's gotta, from the outside in, that's gotta be true. It used to be, in the 90s, it was like, it was pretty taboo.

And it just gets, is it the thing of like, you're proud and I think maybe you say like, you're proud of them or you're happy for them and you don't. I'm bitter. I think I said, I haven't watched that special in so long. I think I'm proud, but I'm bitter. You go home, turn off the lights, listen to Madonna and cry like the rest of us you Son of a bitch. Yeah, you know

Is there a Is that like a popular strain? No ideology. It's more age really. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean Like with age is that because six year olds must be like you you think, you know, they look at you as like. Of course, yeah. I mean, Fran Leibovitz said it best, she goes, I was in the age of the sexual revolution, my parents like, oh no, we didn't get to have

sexual revolution, so you don't get to enjoy it. It's a little, it's just generational. Of course I don't, I could not be happier to see a seven year old on YouTube doing a makeup tutorial. I think that's fucking awesome, because when I was seven, I was just so afraid of the world around me. Is there something to be said for oppression?

Right, I don't know that's oppression. I would say oppression is different than, and I know there's a lot of bad things that happen, but I would say oppression is too strong of a word. I mean oppression is we're talking like. Yeah, I'm not talking about violence or anything. Just like, is there something fun about the tabooness? Of course.

But I grew up in a family where it's all about, my mother has such a traumatic childhood, it's everyone does, everyone uses humor to get out of trauma. And so even for me, like coming out of the closet, my only way out of it was through humor. How old were you? Mmm... when I applied to a job at Michael's.

No, when I, um... I was 18. 18 or 19, I remember the week that I came out. It's so... Was it like one of those obvious ones? Like, was it like... Well, I mean, come on, I mean, there was... We're not, this is not... No one's... no one's wet around me.

But I also, I resent that. I resent people who say, we knew before you did. I resent that. I get so angry about it, because it's like saying your trauma means nothing to me. You know, when someone comes out to you and someone says, we knew before you did, what they're saying to you is that I'm not even gonna listen

to the pain that you went through and brush it off. Was it at their hands though? Meaning were they the homophobic ones or were they the? No, no, I never got like homophobia. I mean, I did in high school. I mean, I did because I think I was so, it was so funny is like I was trying so hard to not be gay, but I was just so gay.

And then people pick up on that. And then you try even harder to be people's friends and then people pick up on that too, and so it's just getting made fun of a lot and So like like not my family though my family always they wouldn't give it They don't care they were always supportive and loving of me and that part. I never felt anything for my family Were there bullies who were there any like, the stories of like, you know what, I was wrong or any of that shit? No.

No. Yeah, people were like, yeah. Well, people call me faggot and I think about it and I'm like, well, they weren't wrong. I mean, they were clearly onto something. You know, it just wasn't the time that you could say it. I mean, I guess you could, but it just was, it was just, it feels so crazy to say it,

but I mean, it was also 20 years ago, but it was just a different time. And then I went to art school, and then it was like, you had to be gay to apply. So I came out real quick, and I was downtown Chicago, and you know, it wasn't crazy. I think people's experiences growing up in the middle of Ohio is gonna be completely different,

where you really had to seek it But I mean I remember even then like kind of going back to what you were saying earlier You know the for the first time I saw drag queen I had to be at a bar to see it You know and when when you went to gay bars back then you know now It's kind of like curated what kind of queerness you are and what makes you most comfortable where your community lies at the time If you were queer, you had to get a fake ID, you go in a bar, and you're confronted with every single aspect.

So people in leather to drag queens. All of the Star Wars canteen. It does feel like, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did. Yeah. You know, so, and it's overwhelming. It's overwhelming because you're like, wait a minute. The old guys with the Greek fisherman's cap

in the corner smoking. It's like the beginning of Cabaret, remember the Fosse? I only do Star Wars. Oh, we can do Star Wars. That's only as far as I can go. Everyone looks like Bib Fortuna. Thank you so much. Okay, so now you're at a point where you can talk

about anything and you seem like a pretty, I was happy to see your blocks because from the outside in everybody seems great. Yeah. And I'm just pent with a pent up with anxiety. Well no, it's just everybody, no, but yeah, it's like everybody's got, we all have the same fucking shit.

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and let them know we sent you. Go to HelloTushy, T-U-S-H-Y.com forward slash Neil for the best gift this holiday season. First one is anxiety. Yeah. Tell us. I think it's natural for, I think it's natural for all performers to be anxious.

I think that the kind, well, maybe some, no. But for me, now I think it's just people. Yeah. How old are you? I'm 38. Yeah, so I think it's just generationally, it's like. Well, it's also too, my friend Pat Powers brought this up and this was like, I would say around 2008.

I remember he used to be on a podcast I listened to, but we're still friends, but he brought it up and it was the first time I thought of it. Despite the podcast, go ahead. It's, it's, Pat Pyres was on a podcast called P&S Explosion, no longer exists, but, but he said, he goes, he goes, I, I'm getting anxiety. And the other host was like, why?

He goes, there's too much available. I, I'm laying in bed and I'm going through Twitter and then Facebook and then Grindr and then the World News. I, our brains aren't meant to know this much. We're not meant to know this much I'm laying in bed and I'm going through Twitter and then Facebook and then Grindr and then The World News. Our brains aren't meant to know this much. We're not meant to know this much and then shut it off and go to bed. And I believe he is onto something.

I just think we flip through our phones and we're just not meant to know that much. No, we're not. Everything becomes a mistrial. Yeah. You know how it's like you can't, at a certain point there's too much information and there's no judge to say this is admissible this season?

It's so you can't, you just go, oh fuck it, I'm overloaded. I kind of believe, and then people go, Trump. I really believe that, they just go solution. Easy solution to an impossible problem. And are you medicated or anything? No, this was the first week I thought, maybe I should take like anxiety medicine.

But there's a lot going on in my life and then I'm getting ready for this special and I'm just running around and I just thought, I, it's not getting easier. So I should like figure out a way to really, I'm never present. I think that's the biggest issue, is I just never feel present.

And so there's a lot of times I'm not even enjoying myself. Do you remember feeling present? Yes. When? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last time I really, certain moments, I mean, I could say when I was living in Italy. 9-11, go ahead.

I remember, I remember on 9-11, my teachers, I misheard, and he said, a plane hit the train center, and I thought, well, who gives a shit about trains? And then they turned on the TV and just let us. And he was like, train, you were like, trade! Do you know what trade is, McGaky? I love trade.

I was a 16-year-old getting trade. Last time I was present, present, I remember I was living in Italy. They had a school, a part of my college, I went to school at the Art Institute of Chicago. 12 of us could go live in an old convent in Umbria, Italy, and study, because I was a painter. And so I went and we lived literally in an old,

my room was the size of this table. It was a bed and a sink that didn't work, and we would just paint all day. So you wake up, you have breakfast, there's 12 of you, the town is 200 people, and then you paint all day, you come back, you have breakfast. There's 12 of you, the town is 200 people. And then you paint all day. You come back, you have lunch. Then you paint till five.

And then you have the night free. And we didn't have no cell phones, nothing. And so all I thought about was painting and talking about painting and color theory and surface treatment. And I was just, and I was out and I was living in Italy and I was the only one that spoke Italian. So I was translating for the other kids in town and hanging out with the chef and stuff. And I was out and I was living in Italy and I was the only one that spoke Italian, so I was translating for the other kids in town

and hanging out with the chef and stuff. And I was so present. It was the most beautiful three months of my life because I was just in my art and I was surrounded by art and I was surrounded by Italians. And it was just the most present I ever felt. And when you paint, you become very sensitive because you're drawing on all these sensitivities to help you create.

And so it's different than music. It's different than, than standup where, you know, you're so alone. I mean, the solitude of painting. And so you, every, you become super emotional, even though it's representational painting. It's not like I was doing painting, like I feel this, you know, I was painting a tree, but still I remember. So I have a lot of representational painting. It's not like I was doing painting like, I feel this, you know, I was painting a tree.

But still, I remember, so I have a lot of memories attached. So if you're, what about it makes you more emotional? Do you think it's the solitude or you think it's the, what, as an artist or somebody drawing something, what are you tuning into? I think it's the solitude. I mean, painting is a lonely drawing. I was a store-bought artist for years for TV commercials.

And you're alone a lot. So you're alone, you're trying to fill your space with music or podcasting, whatever. But I think with painting in particular, I mean, I think all artistry comes from the same place. It's like, if you could imagine like a ball, that ball is an artist or expression. And then you kind of pick the road you want to express

that thing that's inside of you. So some is acting and some is writing and some is standup and some is this, you know, but it still comes from the same place. But for painting, because you're so alone, because you really have to be so sensitive. I mean, I remember, I saw this interview with Barbara Streisand, gay,

and she talked about being thinned skinned. She said, I am thinned skinned because I draw on my sensitivity to create, so I don't mind saying I'm thinned skinned. And I agree with her, I'm very sensitive. I'm an incredibly sensitive person. My feelings are hurt very easily. All the time.

All the time. But it helps me be aware of what's happening around me. You have to draw around from life and then bring it back out onto the canvas. Would it make it hard to like go to lunch? Yes. You'd be like, fuck. Kinda, you're tired.

Yeah. Well, also the chemicals, I think the fumes, the turpentine, you're like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm smoking at the time too. But yeah, that was the most And you know I'm smoking at the time too. But yeah, that was the most present I think I've ever been. That was one of the happiest times of my life.

Yeah, I went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat one time and I was like, one of the days was the best day of my life. And I was like, I'll never do that again. Like dude, go do it. There's something to that, but you just get hooked into like, no, my phone needs me.

Yeah. Is the anxiety, it's not sort of underlying. Is your family anxious? My mom is anxious, and the older I get to realize, the more I realize that she is. I was raised sort of communal raising. I mean, I was with all my cousins. Your Irish, Italian, Mexican?

Italian, Mexican, but raised by the Italian side, Italian Mexican side. Got it, that's your mom's side? Yeah, yeah. My dad's family's lovely, but I mean they're, I didn't grow up with them. Where my mom's family was, I don't like what my mom was making, I went to my aunt Cindy's next door to eat.

I mean that's the kind of family I grew up in. And I look Italian. But the older I get, I's the kind of family I grew up in, you know? And I look Italian. But the older I get, like I realize, like my mom, from her childhood was so traumatic. I think she... What did she, what was her childhood? She, so my, and I tell this story all the time, and it's funny, because now my Mexican family

reached out to me, but my real grandfather is, he's Mexican, he married my grandmother, she's Italian, and they had five kids together, and he had kids with another woman and they had five kids together. He had kids with another woman and named all those kids the same names at the same time. Can you imagine? Fantastic.

Which I went on a Mexican TV show called Noches Con Platanito. He said, your grandpa's very smart. But my mom's whole childhood, she's a little girl, she's sensitive just like me, was fights and furniture getting confiscated and my grandma having to steal to keep them alive and living on the couch of my great grandparents. Trauma. I mean, your whole life is ripped apart because of this

and he doesn't come home for months and my grandma's literally stealing to keep them alive. I mean, it just didn't have any sense of security as a child and family ripped apart and other families and other brothers and sisters, just chaos. Yeah. Chaos, you know? So I think she seeks stability and she seeks like,

I don't want to travel much, I don't want to go out much, I don't want to because that anxiety of having things ripped from you as a child, I think, it sits with her forever. And so there's certain things I notice in her patterns that I've picked up on. And some of it's great because of her sensitivity and her caringness.

And the other part of it is I hold on to way too much responsibility with other people, and I hold on to that anxiety. And I always think everyone's mad at me. That was, I have a song on Instagram called Nobody's Mad at You. It's like the best thing I've ever done. Nobody's mad at you, nobody's mad at you. It's like the best thing I've ever done. Nobody's mad at you. Nobody's mad at you.

You're having a private experience. This is one that I was especially curious about, which is dimming your own light for others. I do that a lot. So is that relationships? 100% relationships, yes. And do you? And friendships too.

Interesting, like how? With other comedians or something? Friends, best friends. You know, did you ever have like when you were coming up in comedy, there's always the one person you're friends with that you feel competitive with? Did you ever have that? Yeah.

Yeah, I feel all of us, we have a counterpart where we kind of were like, well, what are they getting? You know, but there were times where I would get stuff or do stuff or get a reaction on stage and I could feel those few people in my life seething of jealousy. And I played down immediately. I never was proud of myself.

And then, especially with relationships, I could feel myself doing things great that I worked really hard for and then not celebrating them because I'm afraid their ego will be hurt. And then all I do is end up presenting myself because I'm like, wait a minute, I've never celebrated anything I've done.

Even this week, I'm filming my first special with Hulu and Disney, and I don't know how to, I don't know how to switch my brain to say it's okay to be happy for yourself. It could be also Catholicism. Well, yeah, okay, That's how do you negotiate? Cause I don't, it's hard to ask for what you want. Yeah.

And it's also hard, we're not living in a vacuum. No. We don't exist in a vacuum. Is it considerate to kind of play it down? Is it, cause I do that sometimes. I do that sometimes like with lots of categories, but like, especially with other comics, I don't... When somebody's doing well, I mean, I have a theory

that social media makes it seem like people are succeeding at you. Yeah, I've never heard that before. I know, I really, it occurred to me the other day, like, it feels like this is a personal assault at you. Yeah, I've never heard that before. But that's true. I know, I really, it occurred to me the other day, like, it feels like this is a personal assault on you. Yeah. I'm vacationing at you.

Yeah. I'm doing all these things at. Have you said that on stage yet? I haven't, no. Oh, you should say that on stage. Yeah, I'll try it. But, so, some of it is just like, not being, it's some, some of it is just not being rude.

Yeah. Right? No, I agree with that. I think. But then some of it is, because, and I had, like, most people do stuff, the only reason to do something or say something in public is for advantage. And to sell tickets. Yeah. Yeah. The only reason to do something or say something in public is for advantage. And to sell tickets. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm talking about like, even if you're not a comedian. Right. The only time people declare something is, they think it's gonna help them in some way. That's right. Even if it's religion or something.

So I guess what I'm curious about is like, how have you gotten any better at it? Because I still, even in relationships, I don't know, not like I don't know, I can't celebrate a Netflix special or something, but like can I exist without taking her probable reaction into consideration? Well, definitely I agree with you.

Like I would never, you know, celebrating yourself and then you do see people who brag, like you'll be at the table, the cellar, wherever the store, and people, you can hear them boasting. I mean, that's one thing. I am very sensitive to, we never know what other comics are going through.

And I remember the days where I was literally living in an attic above Shizumeta and I had no money and you would hear other comics brag, complaining, I call in. Ah, we can't find a stage for my special! And I'm like, I am literally eating Chinese food twice a day to stay alive, because it's chicken and, you know. Yeah, which for an Italian is like a real hardship.

But you can get chicken and broccoli, and you can get protein and vegetable stuff. But I'm still gay. Gay will always be supreme. And, but I think, I sometimes I'm in, it's like a birthday. I don't celebrate my birthday. It's embarrassing.

It's also like, birthdays are for people under 10. I literally, I have a joke. I'm like, if you're celebrating your birthday after 12 years old, you're an asshole. Yeah, you need presents because you don't fucking have money. You need cake because you can't get cake. You know what I mean?

Like also as a comedian, it's every, it's my birthday three nights, three times a night. I get claps every night. Yeah, yeah, so I I but I wonder if it is How do you be selfish without being selfish? Do you know what I mean? Well, it's like how do you acknowledge your achievements without? without Bragging I guess is the best word to use for it. What's acknowledging and what's bragging? That's true I just call my mom like mom. Yeah, I'm doing this, you know?

I talk to my mom every day. Or my Aunt Cindy or my cousins. My cousins, I'm on a text with my cousins. We're all the same age. We talk every day, all day. So if something really important happens to me, I know that I, that's what I love about being from an Italian family, is like, you are just forever this.

And so I can always go to them with my achievements and be like, hey, I did this, you know, and they're always proud of me. Yeah, and they're like very proud, yeah. They are, but then they also don't understand anything. They're like, I don't under, what's a hulu? That's better than the opposite, because what happens if you do it enough,

you know, your mom's like, what's the, how much of the door are you getting? Like... I can't even imagine my mother uttering those words. What have you noticed? Is it a thing that you noticed it afterward? In what terms? In terms of relate, dimming your own light.

Yeah. And then... I noticed in the moment that I'm like, this is a moment that I'm with a partner or somebody that, you know, like ex-boyfriends or whatever, that I should be able to share and say like, hey, I did this thing and I'm really proud of it. But I know that there's something about being on the stage

that, you know, it's really hard for partners to witness. I remember Maria Callas, Maria Callas, everybody, my favorite opera singer, my tattoo I drew. Did you draw it? Yeah, I drew this and I drew Poison Ivy and I drew Storm. Great. But I have to get her filled in again because Sicily kind of took all the color out. But I remember her saying like when she stopped singing opera after a while because she had

started dating Onassis and you know she said she goes, it's impossible for your partner to see you on stage. They can't bear it. You know and this is the 1960s we're talking about, and she's a woman and all that. But that still exists. I think it takes, to be a performer, it requires a certain kind of person to be with who's gonna be accepting of,

you're gonna get a lot of attention. And I don't think that you and I view the attention the way that they think we view it. I don't think of like, who am I gonna fuck in this audience? I'm thinking, okay, in this market, I sold this many tickets, and if I do this well, and that went really well, then I can probably do a bigger theater the next time

I come back, and then a second, that's what I'm thinking after the show. That's the thing when people were getting mad at Ellen, for instance, of like, is she nice? I did a joke about it, but she's fucking worried. Yeah, yeah. That's the, there's a thing in the Jerry Seinfeld comedian documentary from the late 90s where- I know and I watched that once a year.

Yeah, where he's about to go on stage in DC and he's petrified. And like that, so is he gonna be pissy? Maybe. Yeah. It's not cause he's a billionaire. Right. It's because he's a billionaire and it's not gonna help.

Right. I do a great Orne Adams impression because I did the ethnic show with him in Montreal for a month. Fantastic. But I remember watching that. I can't find it now. I don't watch it because I love Jerry Seinfeld, but I watch it because it's great as a comedian.

I remember watching it before I went to Montreal and relating to a small part of it. And every year you watch it, you understand more of it. It's like opening a door. And I get the Montreal, I get the late nights that I get the Asian, I get the story that Jerry's talking about coming up that hill with the snow and saying the instruments and stuff. Remember that story he told Ornie?

Ornie was like, you know, oh, my friends are all together, they've all got money and they're in finance and stuff. And Jerry's like, there's a story of these, it's a cold winter night, they're on a mountain, and this jazz band, their car breaks down, and they have to walk to the top of the mountain to get to the place they're performing.

As they're walking up the hill, all the snow is blowing, they pass by a house, and there's a family inside by a fireplace having a beautiful night, and they thought, oh, sucks to be them, and kept walking. He goes, that's what it's about. And Oris like, I don't got it. But I get that now.

I get that now because I did the open mics, I did the bar shows, I did the, you know, and now I'm at a place and I'm like, I'm still walking up that mountain. I still love it. And I do find it, you probably feel the same. Don't you notice like how few people are left doing standup that you started with? It just flies off.

I mean, people eventually be producers or writers or actors or whatever, but like to just do standup, it's just so far and few between from where you started. There is something to be said for just like longevity. Yeah. Or endurance. Yeah. Or endurance. Yeah. It is like an Iron Man.

I mean, again, there's enough fucking people padding, comedians padding themselves on the back of a podcast. I know. But not me being like, I'm dimming my light. No, but yeah, I guess it is hard to know. I don't know if I'll ever figure it out. No. That's OK.

No, it's okay. No, it's not. I told my girlfriend I figured it. No, it's just a hard thing, because I know a lot of female comics do it in relationships. How is it being gay in relationships? Does it automatically go to like,

all right, you're the top on the bottom, you're the, is it like, is it pretty? It's not so systematic. I mean, I think it's a little more. Right, but obviously, but I'm saying like, is it, do you, as things arise, are you like, oh, I'm the this? Or is it like, you're both, there's so much like, who's the man, who's the woman? Obviously it's not that black and white, but like, how does it break down roughly in your experience? I usually regret it for him on Grindr. I mean, I'm not a fan of Grindr,

but I'm a fan of Grindr. I mean, I'm not a fan of Grindr, but like how does it break down roughly in your experience? Usually regret it for him on Grindr. That's how it breaks down. No, usually, I mean, it's not so black. I think if you're just going for a straight hookup, which I think a lot of straight people think is sort of how gay relationships are determined.

Could be further from the truth. But know, but sometimes you artists on Grindr, you're like, and I haven't been on Grindr in years, but it's like, you know, it's more aggressive. It's like, hey, I'm top looking for bottom who's available. Hey, I'm a bottom. But usually in a relationship, one might be more bottom, one might be more top. And I'm not talking anatomically, I'm talking about like.

Like submissive dominant. No, just like what are the roles? Are they, is it simple, do the masculine feminine dynamics apply? It's different for each person. I mean, I think that like a lot of cis gay men. I'm always the man in my relationships. I'm never the man.

I'm always in like a house coat. I'm just my non,up really is what it is. I look like E.T. when they put him in drag. No, I think it really just comes down to just whatever's more organic. I mean, I'm someone who's a cis male who has a lot of mix of feminine and masculine qualities. And I think the mentality of like who's mask and who's femme, it feels very antiquated. It feels very early aughts, 90s, 80s, and that comes from a lot of pressure

from the outside world. It all stems from misogyny. It stems from hating women. So it's like, if you're a feminine, then you're right. So now I think, actually the great thing about exposure, not just with YouTube and social media, but shows like RuPaul's Drag Race,

where it shows very clearly in one episode the balance between how we view gender norms of man and woman and being completely blended and thrown into the river, I think has healed a lot of the queer community to give up this idea of I have to be a mask, I have to be this, I have to be that, you know, and it's allowed us to just be ourselves

and be less offended and afraid of how others view us if we're too effeminate. I mean, most of my life I've been too effeminate in quotations for straight people, but it really just comes down to like the outside viewing us and pressuring us to please them. And I think the liberty of having shows like RuPaul's Drag Race literally allows us

to liberate ourselves from the approval of the outside world. So there are a bunch of straight people who are not in the queer community and don't understand the dynamic of how that works out. And they don't understand non-binary, they don't understand what it means to be trans. They think that to be trans,

you have to look this way or act this way. And it's just, those rules don't apply anymore. Now, if someone wants to be trans, you have to look this way or act this way, and it's just, those rules don't apply anymore. Now, if someone wants to be masculine because it makes them feel better about themselves, love that, you know? But it's because they chose it. Or if someone wants to appear or look a certain way or dress a certain way, it's because they chose it.

And I think that's where we're arriving now, is the sort of liberation of the outside world demanding us to behave a certain way to make them comfortable because it's exhausting. I mean, most of my life before it came out and even after it came out was trying to please this undefinable judge, like you said earlier, of how should I behave? How should I walk? How should I act?

How should I talk? What kind of music should I listen to? What kind of colors can I be interested in? When can I perc up in a company? It's similar to not shining your light. It's like, it's so hard to know what am I like. And I'm assuming it's harder if there's outside pressure of like, you might get beat up.

Yeah, that too. Or whatever. Safety, you know. But I always feel safe at a Mariah Carey Christmas concert. I just want everyone to know this. They beat up straight people. They do. They can smell it out.

I don't mind. I guess I would look stupid asking that question, but like. No, I think it's a genuine question. From the outside in, there is so much like, opacity that I just am like, what's happening? Yeah. And I guess there's no one thing. No, I think that's the beauty of it.

But also too, I never mind, I don't think people when they ask me questions like that, that they're doing it to pressure me. I think if someone's genuinely interested, I'm genuinely happy to answer. There's always an educational moment. And I don't really talk about it a lot on stage either. I guess because I've only been in hetero relationships, it generally comes down to my, I generally

act like a masculine stereotype and they generally act like a feminine. Yeah. So I like, and that's sort of how that's the lens through which I see these things. Sure. So I'm wondering like, what's the governing principles of most of your relationships? But does it make you think that's like what you're sort of acting out?

No, well that's what I'm trying to like, if it's masculine and feminine, what's the, it's like that's, if that's- It's like being taken out of the matrix, man. Right, no, it's like if that's the, if that's a metric, what's the other one, imperial or whatever? Like what's feet and what's centimeters? Sure.

And I'm, so I'm curious, like I guess, so there's no, you've been every kind of person in all your relationships. I've just tried on a lot of shoes and now I'm finally in Crocs and I'm comfortable, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think that's where we're at.

What is you in Crocs? I'm teasing, just metaphorically. No, no. I think that's where we're at. What is you in Crocs? I'm teasing, just metaphorically. No, no, no, but I'm saying like, what is, but what is it? What have you settled into? Not caring, not caring. You know, when you see someone in Crocs, they're letting you know.

Right, but what is, and you don't care about, you're not trying to fit into like, although the light dimming, I would assume you kind of have to play some defense against like, what would be the best way for me to be? A lot of times it's like, like in this, what I'm talking about is like how I look and how I sound, I don't care. That used to be a way, that weighed on me for a long time.

Oh no, I'm talking about the inner, within the relationship. No, I still have a hard time in relationships. I'm very insecure there. In that, I'm secure. I think it comes down to, I didn't get to, I think, you know, I wasn't able to express myself in a way to like girls and start dating, and you kind of learn things early on.

So for me, that came so late in life and I was so full of insecurity. It feels like every other part of my life has matured and then that part is still like an old toolbox where it's like, really? You're still using like a hammer and saw? Like we have like so many more new tools, you know? But I just, I haven't gotten there yet. I just still feel, I still feel like I'm using old, old tools. Like, it feels like I'm playing tennis with a hockey stick.

Like, I'm just doing everything wrong. Give me an example. Mmm, like, I don't know how to stand up for myself if I really like a guy. My immediate disposition is to always agree, because it's like being afraid of a kind of conflict. But it's not so much conflict, it's being afraid of not being liked.

And I think for so long I was so unliked and I unliked myself more than anything that I just seek agreeable situations to be liked. And that all I do is end up resenting myself. And then they kind of pay the price. Of course, well then they don't respect you because I don't give a shit about myself. So I get walked over very easily.

Still. Less now, I mean, you know, less now. I'm talking like past relationships and stuff, but I mean, I sort of look at like how I behaved with men back then versus, you you know now obviously it's different now I'm married it but but even you are more than yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I got married. Hey, Rodrigo But even now it's still a strong like those that was the gayest name you could come up I know Rodrigo what if his name was Jeff, but I called him Rodrigo

Just for the marriage. Just go marriage. Yeah So, okay, so and and that's the best, I'm assuming it's the best relationship you've ever been in. Yeah, of course. How does it differ from the other ones? I don't know that it's different. I mean, in the sense that I'm doing a lot of adapting, I'm doing a lot of,

I'm trying to find a happy medium with myself, but I'm still, I get full of anxiety and, I've noticed the older I get, the more I like to be alone. I do. I remember talking to Michelle Wolf once and she was talking about, she was dating some guy and she was like, he just wants to be around all the time. She goes, and I, as a comic, I need to be alone and let my mind wander.

And I agree with her. I think there's just time, like, we just spend so much time giving and giving and giving and giving and giving. I had my recharge, you know, I want to be alone. I think there's just time, like, we just spend so much time giving and giving and giving and giving and giving. I had my recharge, you know. I wanna be alone. I just wanna sit alone. Did you realize that when you got married?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And did he? He's totally respectful for it. Okay. Yeah. But does he like it? That's up to me to determine. My girlfriend and I, it's like where it's, you know,

where I'm like, she's like, I'm a loner too. And then she realized like, oh, I thought I was a loner, you're a loner. I'm like, yeah. And I, there's no, there's, I have like a body of work to prove that it's worthwhile. But it's not- Do you feel guilt for it? Do you ever feel guilt like when your partner

wants to be around, but you- And that feeling inside your chest of like, I just wanna be alone, but then you don't wanna hurt someone else's feelings. That's exactly what I was asking about the dimming your light thing where it's. I'm afraid of looking like a bad person. Yes. That's my biggest fear.

Am I withholding? Right. Am I punishing her? Right. Or like, you know what I mean? Like, am I being withholding or am I existing? I follow this woman on Instagram, her name is Barb, I think it's just some white lady with gray hair. And she kinda smiles like that.

But she does give like, it's almost like a live laugh love. It's information that you kinda roll your eyes to, but it's just- Just interesting enough? Just interesting enough that I'm like, I'm listening to everything this bitch says. Because she held up a sign,

you know, oh, so Instagram, but I love you, Barb. She held up a sign and I've never related to it more than but I love you, Barb. She held up a sign, and I've never related to it more than anything in the world. She goes, I'm tired of being nice. When I'm nice, I'm overstressed, I'm used up, I'm taken advantage of, so I'm not nice. I'm a good person. And just that dumb Instagram quote

changed my frame of reference. I thought, wait a minute, that's what it is. Like, I am not nice, because it's exhausting being nice. I just do too much for too many people and I don't feel it in return. But I'm a good person, so I can say no to people and still be a good person. Yeah.

I can be alone and still be a good person. Well, yeah, like, I don't never want to see you again. Yeah. I just, I'm just, one of my favorite stories about like what it is to be a comedian. It's about a, it's a band going up a hill, snow. Imagine I was like, tell me more. 10 years ago, 12 years ago,

Mulaney's a writer for Saturday Night Live, Seth Meyers the writer for Saturday Night Live. They live near each other in the West Village. They're both like, they walk past each other and they're both mumbling to themselves about a sketch and they just went and kept going. Didn't stop, didn't go like, hey, hey, hey, just like, no, I know what you're doing.

I'm also doing it. See it work, you know what I mean? But there is, it's a hard thing to, in a weird way, it's harder than the watching your partner shine. Of course. Is it weird though that like, don't you think sometimes because we're in such a specific community with such a specific job, that it's just at some point it becomes impossible to relate to some people because you're like, yeah, I gotta go think of these funny things and I need to be alone to do it,

but then I'm getting, like, you just look insane. You look insane where other people are like, why can't you just relax? Just relax. It's not what I'm here for. You were here, there's a Linda Ronstadt. I love Linda Ronstadt. You hear her quote, I'm not here to be a wife,

I'm here to write songs. I love that. It's just like, she said it a little bit, but I don't remember the exact, I'll put the exact quote up in the show notes. She's, I watched her interview lately. She was a big,

my uncle Mike, who just passed away, he was a huge part of my life. And he loves Linda Ronstadt. Now I've, now I, as a result, since I grew up, love Linda Ronstadt. Now I, as a result, since I grew up, love Linda Ronstadt and she can't sing anymore because she has MS. I watched this interview with her recently and I've never seen someone so incredibly,

the way she dealt with it, I'm sure it's lots of pain, but the way she dealt with it was like, well, I can't sing so what am I gonna do? I sing in my head all the time, but she goes, give me some books, put me in a corner, I'll read all day, I'm happy. I I thought god damn Linda like yeah, what a strong human boy. I have a It's life is a restaurant with no substitutions. Mm-hmm. Just like no, is it? Yeah, you like it? Yeah Nothing with it. We're not this is what it's gonna be. I learned in that three is like could I substitute gay?

Like no This is what it's gonna be. I learned that at three. I was like, could I substitute gay? They're like, no. Now go bake with your mother. No, no, no, no, no. Guys, it's the holidays. You know what that means. Stink. Stinky pits. Synonymous with the holidays. I kid, I'm in comedy.

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It's funny, because we're talking about like, we just leave us alone, and then we're like, where is everybody? I know, but feeling left out doesn't mean I don't feel included. I think feeling left out, I'm just speaking to like, never, I think people who feel left out are people who felt like they were never able to express who they truly were for so long and just feeling like, I just couldn't relate.

There's a long time I just never felt I could relate to anyone, you know, until I was well into high school, then you finally find people. But growing up in a large family, you know, you're always competing, like you're in school. Like it just, there's some times that I'm like, I kind of feel left out when I was growing up, I think. But I was trying- What do you feel left out of?

I feel left out of experiences that a lot of people had. Like again, not to sort of go back, but it's, I hate that everything is sort of like pressed on my sexuality, but we are talking about like my formative years and that does have a lot that informs how I'm processing things and doing things today. But yeah, I mean, something as simple as like

I dating in middle school and having crushes and being able to express those feelings at a young age, you know, you're just, there's a whole, even in open mics, you know, I mean, me and Tim Dillon were the, in my generation at the Creek in the Cave in Long Island City, like that's where we were doing comedy. So, you know, every generation, but we were probably some of the only two gay people doing standup

at that time in the open mic scene. I think a little later, Joel Kombustor and Julio Torres came in, but I remember, like, him and I have talked about this before, where it's like, so many people were dating and so many people were dating other comics and so many guys using stand-up to get women and all this stuff. It just was not there. It just wasn't a part of my life. It's just, and I hear so many comics talking about it. Well, I dated this girl, now she's dating this guy,

blah, blah, blah, and it just was, just, I won't ever experience that. I'll never experience it. Yeah, I think there's something to be said for the, it looks like all the straight people, all the ex-people are living it up, right? We're all like, I'm fucking a part of something. Alienation is fucking everywhere.

So, you know, it's like, I wouldn't date other comics because it's just a nightmare. Do you know what I mean? So, what looks like, it's like where they go, well it must be so easy to be white. I don't fucking think about it, honestly. And I guess it's like anything where it's got its ups and downs.

But that's what I would say to people who feel left out of things. It's like no one ever really feels like, as human beings we're always looking for the ways in which we're not included. How am I not included? Yeah, exactly. How am I the victim?

And I don't, in this situation. I don't think you're even really feeling sorry for yourself. No, I don't feel sorry for myself, but it's just, it's interesting. It's just an interesting observation of being like, there's just large chunks of my life that were just a different, and I think a lot of my I'm sort of always in my head as a result. And I think it comes from that. I think it just

comes from like not being able to fully connect. Now it sounds like I'm, I'm autistic, but it was like, you know, but it is that feeling of like, well, wait, are you interested? No, but I do have synesthesia. Oh, ah. I know. But I do feel that there's a lot of always thinking in here. There's always in here. I'm always a little too in here, and I'm never present enough.

Not being a part of norms is scary as shit. Yeah, but now it's so strange, but back to what my joke is like, it feels the individual is more celebrated than conforming. This seems to be the wave of young people. Agreed, well that becomes the sort of way, but you're still kind of isolated. I don't wanna get married, don't wanna have kids.

It's like not a big, it's getting bigger, but it's still a minority. Do you know what I mean? And like the blocks, the special that I did about it is like sort of all the ways in which I don't fit in. And I think it's just like, I think it's just, it's the jazz, in some ways it's the jazz musicians going up the hill where you like, that's,

they're fitting in. And it's not, it like a prison and I don't want kids yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't get it but as a gay guy it's more it's kind of like oh it's fun sure you like wow you shouldn't live it up yeah gays in their 30s usually end up replaying what we missed out in our teens, you know, or at least 20s and 30s. It's kind of like a replay, you know? That's why Halloween's so popular with the gays. Go on, I'm interested in that.

Just that, we love a costume. We'll make anything Halloween. Christmas is slowly soliloquying into Halloween. I mean, at this point, it's gonna be like the Tooth Fairy will be a holiday, the gays will celebrate and make it Halloween. I mean, we this point, it's gonna be like the tooth fairy will be a holiday, the gays will celebrate, make it Halloween. I mean, we just love a celebration.

And it's because you felt like you were deprived? Probably, yeah, I think so. And then it becomes like, well, we're making up for lost time? Yeah, something that's interesting is I love when, you know, you see like really gay people, you know, and you almost look at it like, are they performing right now?

Right? But then, but now it's like, I see, when you ever see someone so aggressively straight, I'm like, that's just drag. Like you ever see a straight guy, I'm like, it's so aggressively, like the way they walk the- Backing your car into a parking spot,

that's a straight catwalk. Basically, do you know what I mean? Like, what do you think is going to happen? Walk me through why you just did that. Right. You know exactly who. When you hear a car engine like vroom by you, it's like we get it. You know, like a dad. Yeah, that's, yeah.

Exactly. Or like, I always say like, how bad is your personality? Bad. That's what you've, that's what exactly or like I always say like how bad is your personality bad? That that's what you've that's anyone that eats a towel is what we're talking about right now. Yes, is that what it's called towel? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I ate there once with Keith Robinson years ago That's when he had a stroke that's Did you that thing you talked about not having not being able to like exercise crushes,

pursue crushes, do you think we're 10 years away or five years away from 11 year old boys being able to do that? No, we're already there. Oh, we are there. Oh, it's already there. I'm so old, I'm antiquated in terms of like queer history. I'm a millennial white gay where it's like,

yeah, that's passe, you know? And joking ways, you know? There's a lot of people still dealing with that, obviously. But like, no, I mean, now there's literally like, you go to, my friend Bob the Drag Queen and Monet Exchange, they're wonderful, talented comics and drag queens, and we would always set up, when they would do DragCon,

we would set up their booths, because of course it's free labor, our friends don't pay us, and we have to do full thousands of clothes, Bob. And yeah, parents bringing their kids, you know, it's a different time. It's a different, it's a completely different time. So I just couldn't even imagine, like, you know,

sometimes I was trying to think of a joke, because people, a lot of the people in the queer community get really upset, really upset when Pride comes and suddenly Chase Bank is full faggotry. You know, like, we love Gays. We're on prep. Right. But you know what?

As a kid, sometimes I say, I would have given anything for anyone to validate my existence. Anything! I would, if a bank- Even if you weren't out. That's what I'm saying. When I was five, if my local bank said, we love you, at least my bank can say it.

You know, I was seeking Disney villains to sort of find my footing. First gay person that I saw on television was C-3PO. Am I wrong? Yes! The Richard Simmons of space. By return of the Jedi, literally at one point he goes, dear lord. I'm like.

You had a few jokes about that. I noticed the thrill on it. I'm like, oh, these are all, there is a gay character in everyone. Yeah, there's an article I read about how gay, how, these are all, there is a gay character in everyone. Yeah, very cool. There's an article I read about how gay, how Disney villains are queer coded. And James Adomian has the best bits about it, like Ursula being gay and like, he was like, all the villains like, yes, you know?

Yeah. Like super good. James Adomian's a genius. She's like, I'm a big dyke with a butch haircut. Ew! Uh, yeah, like Maleficent and I was always drawn to the other as a kid. Well yeah, but that's, I would, you wonder like, is that homophobia? No, it's not. It was a savior.

So you think it's a, it's, right, but I'm saying, it's like you can't, now when you make a villain in an action movie. They can't just be evil, they have to be. Well they, it's like, can they, now they could be Russian. They can't just be evil, they have to be. Well, it's like, now they could be Russian. They can't be Middle Eastern. No. Like, the certain things of like, what can we get away with?

I wish that all villains were Skeletor from He-Man. So, He-Man, you bumbling fool. Like, that was the gayest character of all time. And I mean, I have like such a deep love for Skeletor. It was originally voiced by Truman Capote. Yeah. I just love the idea of a evil skeleton face. And somehow the producers were like going through auditions.

And when he was like, hehehe, they're like, that's the voice. Like it's insane to me. Skeletor is full Scooby-Doo villain. Faggot. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. He literally says, he's what he literally says like you You had another one, I mean it's all kind of the same thing we both fear fear fear of

Sticking out. Yeah fear of fear like fear I'm thinking about breaking out. Yeah. Or fear of fear, like fear of, fear of being abnormal. I'm fear-based. I'm someone who, I'm like a perfect mix of my mom and dad. You know, my mom wants to stay at home and I think she's very fear-based and anxious.

Then my dad was in Vietnam and flies out and is very independent. Somehow I'm both. I'm always on a plane by myself. I'm always alone. I'm always in a new hotel. I'm always doing something wildly new, yet I'm constantly craving to stay at home and have routine. I'm like two minds somehow. I don't know.

That's why when I tour, I won't do the bus and do all of it in two months. I do, this tour I started in September. It'll end in April. Then I just go out once a weekend, because I'm like, well then I get to be back home. There's no rush, I'm not rushing or anything, but I'm like, I like to feel at home.

So I'm oddly to be, but I am very fear-based, I don't know how. I'm a, I don't know why. Well, no, I just, being a person, and it's just balancing like, what, who, what's what's uh? Who's the dictator today my friend Nick? Such a nightmare

Yeah, but within you I mean like what like what's who's who's driving the car lately I've been waking up and saying I just want a day to do nothing I missed the feeling of a Saturday when you're in middle school. Yeah. And waking up, like me, a perfect weekend when I was in middle school or high school would be Saturday. I'm usually, my cousin Brian was sleeping over

or I'm either at his house or he's at my house. We wake up, turn on GameCube and just play video games all day. Yeah. I miss that more than anything in the world. Why don't you do that? Because there's a million things for me to do and I have this fucking phone with me.

I gotta get, I would love to take my phone and throw it into the Hudson River. It's too much. Yeah, I mean, you could have somebody do it for you. Yeah, it's, everything's so expensive. Yeah, I know. It's so expensive. Like, to get like, I'm like,

oh, maybe I can hire someone to like post for me online. Like that'll be $60,000 a year. I'm like, so what? Yeah. I'm like, then I'm like dad. I'm like, we can maybe I can hire someone to like post for me online, like that'll be $60,000 a year. I'm like, so what? Yeah. Then I'm like, dad, I'm like, we can't afford it, you know? Yeah. So no, I didn't grow up with money. I can't consciously spend that.

Here's the good news and bad news, never changes. Yeah. Doesn't matter how much money you have. Right. Yeah. Did I literally, I'm late for this and I'm checking my CVS app To see if I got a $5 coupon

Barbara's try again Barbara's tries it and she said she goes I've made so much money She goes but when I was redoing my house, they had all the tiles in front of me and I'm looking at the prices Yeah, and she's like, it's just growing up poor. I didn't grow up poor. We did we did not grow up with money You know, I think there's a big difference, but like we definitely have money. I think it's almost genetic. You're either like sort of preternaturally cheap or you're not Italian. Is that? Yeah. Sebastian's got great jokes about that. Yeah. Like the price you.

I grew up about a few blocks away from where he grew up. I only met him once and I was at the cellar. He came in one night and Est, you know SD, the cellar She was like she goes talk to him. He's Italian too. And so I said, oh, hi Sebastian. I'm Matteo I said, you know, I I also grew up in Arlington Heights. He goes really he goes. Yeah, I go where he goes Which side of the tracks were literally like other side of the tracks from each other? I mean obviously different ages. Yeah, but it's so funny. I'm like two Italians from Arlington Heights, doing stand-up comedy.

He's so fucking funny. He was so nice. Yeah, so what's your dream for yourself? I'd like to meet Liza Minnelli before it's too late. When will you feel like I've done, I think it's too late. Between me and you, I don't keep a close eye on her, but... My chance was 10 years ago. Like, when will you feel like, oh, this is good?

I feel that right now. You do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm doing giant theaters. Yeah. I don't know that... No, yeah, we were, I was doing Seattle around the same time as you were, and I did that theater like three times, you did it like six, and I was like, fucking nice.

Yeah. But I mean, I'm not like, you know, sometimes I'm like, like I see Shane Gillis did like 30,000 seats. I'm like, I don't know that I have that ambition, to be honest with you. I mean, that would be amazing. And congrats, Shane deserves it. But I never thought I would get here. I literally never thought I would get it,

just to do Carnegie Hall and I got to sing opera at the end of my show with Nadine Sierra. I never thought I would be able to do that. So I'm like kind of like I just want to be able to always perform. That's it. What did you how do you feel when you did Carnegie Hall? That was the only moment on stage ever in my entire life that I was present and when I was singing I sang La Chidre en la mano with Nadine Sierra who's the lead soprano at the Metropolitan Opera. She just, we were following each other. I sang opera. And when I was doing Carnegie Hall,

I thought I should end it singing, but how gross to end it like, like here's me and now more me. You know what I mean? New York! So I thought I messaged her and said, would you want to do like an opera duet? With me. With me.

Yeah. And she was like, I would love to. So she, she was in town and she took me to the Metropolitan Opera to rehearse. Yeah, that must've been incredible. I was, they were- That must've been almost more fun than doing it. It was amazing. Yeah.

They're showing me, the Metropolitan Opera brought me Maria Callas' handwritten letters that she wrote to her ex-husband, Managhini. I'm holding the same artifacts Maria was holding and she's showing me the costumes, and she's showing me in... And Nadine's... It's weird to think of someone so talented

and that normal. Like, she's just normal. But then she just sings... I mean, she's like... It's like heaven. So then she taught me this. I know how to read music, and I'm a bassist, but I was so nervous to sing it. The whole time I was on stage, I was like,

who gives a shit about the jokes? I just have to remember it. I have to hit the high, and stuff, so, but I was so nervous to sing it, I was, the whole time I was on stage, I was like, who gives a shit about the jokes? I just, I have to remember it, I have to hit the high, you know, B flat, and I have it recorded, and I put it on my Instagram, but... -♪ I'm the humble... -♪ I think she had fun because it's doing comedy and opera, so we were having fun on stage, and then I had fun

because I'm singing with the world's greatest soprano at Carnegie Hall. You kind of did bits with her? Yeah, yeah. This is the greatest that I've ever sounded. A-b-e-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a- my voice sounds high, but when I sing, la la la, so it's, when I hit those notes, I turn to the audience. When you first started doing that, you must have thought you were,

you must have done it as a bit at first, right? No, I just had, I remember when I first started singing, my teacher, Nick Falco, hey Nick, my voice teacher, he could not believe how low my voice went. He would test every single day to see how low I could go. And I can sing pretty high too, but when I hit those low notes, I turn to the audience and said, this is the straightest it'll ever sound.

And she was giggling and laughing. I mean, we just had so much fun. But that moment, I remember it was the only moment on stage where I, you know, Carnegie Hall, you look up and it just, I was, for like a split second, I was like, oh my God. How did you get here? How did you get here?

How did you arrive here? This is insane. This is insane. Yeah. And it was the most fun I've ever had on stage, was singing with her. Great, man. It was so nice talking to you. It was amazing. Thank you for having me on the show.

I'm glad we could work it out. Matteo Lane, everyone. Ciao. Yeah. That's Italian, you fucking idiots!