Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Mike Birbiglia

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Neal Brennan interviews Mike Birbiglia (The Old Man & The Pool, Don't Think Twice, Sleepwalk with Me + more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 10:20 Control 25:30 Yelling 39:55 Physical Strength 43:05 Vegetables 48:54 Fear of Mediocrity  58:48 Letting People Down 1:04:48 Onstage vs. Off stage 1:13:55 Movie Question ---------------------------------------------------------- https://nealbrennan.com for tickets to Neal's tour Brand New Neal Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- Sponsors: https://pavlok.com Code: NEAL for 40% off any device  GameTime App Code: BLOCKS for $20 off your first purchase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Hi, I'm Neil Brennan. I have a podcast that you're watching. It doesn't look like my podcast, although we go on the road sometimes. It's called Blocks.

I have a Netflix special. We talk about what are the things that make me feel like something's matter with me alone in the world jimmy carr said have your friends on and they'll talk about their blocks my guest today is a long time 15 we'll go 15 years yeah 15 years and also really the poobah of narrative stand-up um one of the poobahs the poobah i'll go i'll go around here of narrative stand-up mike berbiglia ladies and gentlemen wow yeah pretty great 15 years friends you mean yeah yeah that's about right and i i'll second your point about jimmy carr jimmy carr in addition to being a hilarious comic, he's very generous with ideas. He gave you the idea.

He's like, you should have a podcast where you ask people what their blogs are. He'll come to my show, similar to you. He'll go, here's five tags. I might not use all of them, but that's a nice thing to do. That's what you do when you come to my shows. There's a part of me that's like, it's selfish.

I just want to get my... I want one of my jokes in there but at the same time like i could not tell you yeah of course occasionally they help so i could you know something excuse me selfishness helps sometimes our own personal selfishness and jimmy carl listens watches every episode and compliments it like it wasn't his idea that's hilarious now the thing i always worry about for myself and not you i guess i worry about that the how many narrative stand-up shows can you do yeah that's a great question i think about that all the time because right now i'm out i'm working out the new hour you haven't if you're not familiar with Mike's work, Boyfriend's Girlfriend,

Girlfriend's Boyfriend, Girlfriend's Boyfriend, and the follow-up, Boyfriend's Girlfriend, the new one, Old Man in the Pool. Thank God for jokes. And thank God for jokes.

And the other one that I don't, Sleepwalk with me, which the thing about you that I forget, so I'm assuming everybody else forgets, you've also directed two very good movies. Thanks, man. And nobody, it just seems to not, it proves my point that people think of you

like, I can't really alter people's perception of me at this point. I can't. I don't think I can. I also realize people only watch one special. People go, three mics, I got a new one they're like yeah yeah yeah i'm not not they without saying we're not watching yeah yeah i'm not doing that

again wow yeah so so um i'm doing the old man in the pool he did on broadway and i'm doing it one last time in scotland and london in the fall then it's going to come out on a thing which i haven't announced but it's going to come out right and thing, which I haven't announced, but it's going to come out. And yeah, the question is, what do you do when you have, do you have more narrative specials in you? I don't know. I've been working on new material. I just got back from Madison. I'm doing 70 minutes. It's not a single narrative. It's doing well. I got tons of jokes. And I think what it comes down to to is can you come up with a way that your 10 stories could look i feel like you're thinking this way too it's like you start off you write 100 jokes that work you start with 500 jokes that don't work and then you have here's 100 that work and

then you're like wow 100 out of 500 how to do that and then you go like how could the 100 be 10 stories or 10 chunks and then you're like could the 10 chunks be a single narrative and like i don't know yet you i would the thing i want to talk to you about which is hilarious guy came to my show friday night at the kennedy center standing ovation which can or cannot mean something i so well yeah dms me in essence saying you weren't sad enough he said i kept waiting for you to appear oh wow wow and it's like so then i'm i'm i did a announcement on the next show hey if you're here for that oh wow you've lived a life of bad news here's some more yeah yeah i'm not very upset i'm not bummed out anymore so just you wanted to see me like run around the yard or

do you need me right do you need some other tone? I'm not opposed to the guy. I'm not opposed to like, I'll always be looking for more structure. Yeah. But it was just an odd thing. Well, I think what happens is,

is you, you know, you, you, you know, your special. I don't think I can guarantee a woman's emotional safety. Pretty accessible comedy show,

huh folks? In my specials, Jen and I attempt to conceive for eight months and it does not work, because like I said, my body is a lemon. We get sad, we go there, we reveal, like you're saying, your blocks. Uh, and

then there is an expectation of like, okay, that's what they're all gonna be like. Yeah. And I try to say... I understand that. Yeah. I try to say at the beginning of the shows, this isn't gonna be like and i i try to say i understand that yeah i try to say at the beginning of the shows this isn't gonna be that yeah i literally say it like the other shows they had an arc bubba this isn't gonna happen right in that way there's like expectation oh okay we get it he's just working out the jokes yeah that are gonna become the thing but like i think what's funny is with the shows that have pathos

and all this kind of stuff versus not, you even take Chris Rock's Tambourine, which is, I think, a brilliant special. It's his most vulnerable in a certain way. He talks about his divorce. There is no equality in a relationship. Definitely. In a certain way, it's like you really only need one or two moments

in a special where there's no punch line where you just bring them the truth and sadness about what your existence is sometimes for people to go oh wow yeah it's like a shock to the system yeah i hear what you're saying so all right i'll force it in no you don't have to force it in i didn't look i didn't do it in madison but like yeah but do you think you'll force it in. No, you don't have to force it in. Look, I didn't do it in Madison. But do you think you'll do it eventually in this new hour? No, I think I'll have more structure. I think it'll be more... The setups will be more specific or the setups will be more...

In some ways, and this is how Blocks came to be anyway, is that I was kind of like, what am I saying? And then work backward from there. With this, was kind of like, what am I saying? And then work backward from there. Yeah. With this, I will get more. What am I saying? And then,

and then, but it'll never, I don't want to be sad. No, I get it. I don't because I'm not, I'm not anymore. Like I don't say like,

and I never was what? No, I'm, I'm just not like I've done enough stuff that I feel. You did the magnets. Dude, you know what I've done. I gave you a fucking montage, people. Cut to the montage, Will.

Shut the magnets. I did it. I went to China. It's like a telemarketing thing where it's like, what would you pay? I'm throwing in the magnets. I'm throwing in the DMT. I'm throwing in ayahuasca. Please call the toll-free number you see on your screen right now. So mild mood alteration.

More than that. So I've done all the stuff. So I don't want to, I mean, maybe, but at the same time, I don't want it to be a triumph. I don't want it to be like, and I'm, I don't, I don't want to, I mean, maybe, but at the same time, I don't want it to be a triumph. I don't want it to be like, and I'm, I don't, I don't, it doesn't feel energetically, artistically correct to force in a narrative. So here's what I would say to that person who's on your show, Sam, what about what's sadness?

I actually think that even if you don't have an arc and you don't have just hard sad parts i think the best jokes have a sadness that underlies them and then it turns on you and so that you go there and then you're laughing at the thing that you're going there for yeah but this guy's just in the crowd i know, I know. He just wants it to be said. He wanted introspection. Mm-hmm. But that part of my life is over. I'm not looking inside. That's just on the podcast. Yeah.

No, I mean, yeah. That's why the podcast is so good, though. In a way, like, your podcast and my podcast, Working It Out, are of a similar DNA in the sense that, like, and I think it's the reason why people even listen to podcasts. They want to know what the real is. What is it also? I mean, I think it's the why books are popular and why podcasts are popular. Hey, what's it like to be you?

Yeah. What's it like? Can I get some some firsthand experience in someone else's shoes? That's what Blox is. It's like, what's the thing that makes you feel like you're alone in this? And so when someone can pull that off and you can feel like, oh my God, that's not just me. That's Neil too.

That's Mike too. That's pretty amazing. Yeah. But so was an hour of jokes. But to go back to Chris Rock, it's like, that's, for me, that's my favorite part of Tamarine. Because I'm like, even Chris Rock feels that way. This person I look up to, and I think he walks on water.

I'm like, yeah, he feels sad, too. Yeah. Yeah. I am with you. I guess it's, as someone who is inspired to do a show that way you've been inspired to do shows that way if i don't if it doesn't automatically if i'm not automatically driven to go that way i don't want to pretend yeah i get it you know what i mean yeah you don't want to put it on yeah and i am also not that people just want jokes anyway they do they that's true too they

also are just like for all the for the guy that dm me i'll have a i'll have maybe a dozen people that are like yeah great just yeah be like part of the reagan i mean one of the reasons that blocks work so well is that it's got banger jokes right Right. Yeah. And that's like... Yeah, that's what people remember. Yeah. That's, yeah. Mike, you've sent me some blocks, and they're great. Block number one,

having a lack of control. Yeah. Tell me about that. I mean, I just witness it in my own, like, career. So, like, with... I made... I directed two movies,

and I got convinced and they let me have final cut because there's something about shooting a movie or making anything and then having it taken away from you is viscerally i i get like upset i i so someone said you have autism get a test okay got the test the lowest score you can have on the test and be autistic is a 26 i got a 26 okay so i'm just yeah yeah i just made like i jumped and uh and i wanted on that boat so bad it makes me it makes me feel like like like asperger's reaction yeah when things are out of my control in that regard yeah where i'm gonna be held responsible yeah and i didn't get to have final say the idea of your name being on the thing but then it's like kind of junky version of itself yeah and do you feel the same way yeah i mean that's why i work on my solo shows for like three

or four years because it's like this thing of like i don't want it to be not the thing that's in my head yeah you know i have the same thing even with like the marketing materials i want the poster to be right i want the trailer to be right i want like everything and and along the way in show business there's so many people who want that control because there it means money or i also think people want the control just because they want it i want it you even see it with like netflix right where it's like you'll see a movie that's an ensemble and then the marketing poster that they're using as the thumbnail is like ann hathaway and it's like she's in an ensemble but it's a solo shot of her and i i just i'm not even involved with

that movie and i'm annoyed right i'm like i could argue the opposite which is like people are gonna click on it because it's in hand oh i know that's what they're thinking that's that's what yeah yes and then and then they see the ensemble i know i know but don't don't you have like with stuff you make can you yeah yeah but I yeah I do with like you know things I work on or like what and then if it's not going to be that I get so divorced from it yeah or I'm like I don't even acknowledge it that I had anything to do with it because it just wasn't what I want so I even have it with like i'm going to edinburgh and london in august and september and i'm like what where's the airbnb what is the walk from the airbnb to the venue at edinburgh what's the walk from the you know what i mean like and that's three months from now and And what are you worried about? I don't know.

It's a lack of, it's another one of my blocks. I can't live in the present. Yeah. So I'm constantly, I'm gaming out the future. Yeah. Always, like in detail. Yep. Like I'm Google, like Google mapping was the worst thing that ever happened to people like me.

Uh-huh. Because I'm just like, okay. Okay, what if I made it right? Okay, so this is like the Danish pastry shop on this corner. And then I walk by here. And I walk, well, what if this whole block is shut down? Because it's the West End. Maybe they shut it down.

That's like my whole inner model. had a thought one time that our brains write tragedies about the past and dystopian sci-fi about the future yeah yeah and it's like and it doesn't write anything about the present yeah just like no that was a tragedy back there yeah that what you experienced and the future is going to be worse that's so funny some you said something on this podcast, on one of the other episodes that I quote all the time, which is probably a misquote, but it's like that comedians' brains are like the internet before there was the internet. Yeah. We just go association, association, association.

Yes. And so the internet in some ways is the worst thing that ever happened to people like us because we overthink everything and then we get we have an engine we haven't we have actually tools yeah we can game out our trip in four or five months ago from now and like meanwhile it's going to be completely different from how we imagine it yeah the idea of like controlling things in advance like so much of it's out there's also a thing another thing someone recorded my good night in one of the shows this week yeah just like waving applause right i can hear people talking

and i'm literally listening to it over and over again what the audience like the conversation like the fucking francis ford coppola movie about paranoia. Oh my God. The conversation. And it's like, sometimes I think it's negative. And then sometimes I think it's neutral. And then some things, maybe it's positive.

And I'm like, what are you? What if it's negative, Neil? Yeah. What if it is? Then what? And by the way,

of course it is from someone. Sure. Of course. What are you? A hundred percent? Yeah a hundred percent yeah hundred percent approval yeah no one is yeah yeah rocky wasn't a hundred percent approval four percent walked out of the theater and go i don't know it didn't seem real how he's boxing well you know what they could have said he lost yeah exactly he lost yeah yeah yeah yeah it's fair um fair criticism why show me a white loser that's what's great a white loser again i i could look at it through a racial lens but it's i there was a sketch one time that i wanted to write it was the that rocky the plot of rocky is a black champion gives a white loser a chance oh my god you're that's an interesting rewrite or reposition that's what

well that's your marketing up and everyone black champion gives a white loser a chance yeah um because apollo creed wins and beats him he does yeah yeah interesting yeah uh but he didn't kill him he didn't kill him oh my god yeah um so anyhow so so you need you like the lack of control how how does it well i guess you are you because of you will jump out the window yeah there are certain people and certain like i you know who i i've said it on here before people hate control freaks it's like how about your brain surgeon yeah are you are you opposed Certain people and certain, like, you know who, I've said it on here before, people hate control freaks. It's like, how about your brain surgeon?

Yeah. Are you opposed to him being controlly and wanting things? Right. No, certain people I want you. How about your pilot? How about, like, on and on and on? If you need control for it to go right, I cede that to you. It's tricky one because you know you know you you're i think first guest on the show is david letterman and people always would say he wants everything

exactly this way he doesn't want anyone you know within 50 feet of his dressing room before the show and all this stuff and i'm always like i really like the show you know yeah like whatever he's doing yes i really like how it came out yeah how would you like it to how would you like to do it you want sandwiches everywhere you wanted to smell any temperature yeah in the studio any it i think it's jealousy i remember when dicaprio when when i'm old enough to remember when titanic came out and i remember people going that guy it went from like he sleeps a lot of women oh yes ma'am i do to he's gay oh yeah and it just became this thing of like it's just like what can we possibly what can we how can we negate this yeah

how can we negate this great looking talented guy yeah really good who's seemingly pretty normal not a monster not a drug addict and they go ah and you're just looking for him going let who letterman you know he likes it 64 degrees and how is that a criticism i always i always get worried for uh the comic in the in the nation who uh whoever it is at any given moment who's number one i'm always like that doesn't end well it's not easy it's like because i think you lose control to your point about leonardo dicaprio the moment you become number one everyone comes for you yeah and i've never experienced it and i i hope to never i don't think i will i i don't think i have the ingredients for it which is actually to my benefit

i mean yes and no it's like it's to your benefit it's maron said one time he's like i don't he didn't begrudge louis because he was like i don't think i could handle that level of fame right there's a wild level of fame yeah and milaney's had it yeah famous people are weird as shit wherever and and to define it just so people understand what we're talking about to say number one or whatever it's basically like every conversation you're in with someone who isn't in comedy ask you about that yes they ask you about that person so they go hey do you know john mulaney yep do you know chris rock whatever it is and it's like you're the logo for the thing you're like if you google yeah you're the avatar for stand-up comedian. Stand-up comedy.

It'll be a picture of Malay. For like a year, it was Hannah Gadsby. And it was a picture of Chris for... Yeah. Yep. Yes. I didn't see the Hannah Gadsby year. No, there was.

There was. There was a year where it was like, or at least everyone in my circle was like... Maybe in your algorithm it was Hannah Gadsby? Yeah, yeah. It never... It was Chris, Dave, Malay. Louis.

Also Louis. Yeah. Sebastian, to some degree, has that right now. People don't like stand up that much. Most people don't. It's like being in a weird sports league. It's like being a professional. I had the thought that.

Well, it's like bowler. Bowler is a soccer. Popular in Portland. Right, right, right. It's popular in portland it's popular in certain it's or like f1 where it's popular it's not that popular from if you ever look at the netflix if you get a sense of how many people watch soccer in america yes if not not in europe god no um if you look at how many people watch the chris hemsworth action

extraction movie on netflix versus how many people watch even kevin or blaine yeah yeah for sure it's exponentially higher for movies yeah but then like i believe it's 10 times higher. Yeah, or even like that excellent series that Margaret Qualley was in Made was in like the top 10 like again recently. Like this like drama about this really sad situation, you know, with this woman with her daughter. And it's like people

watch that exponentially more than stand-up comedy. They want stories and they want helicopters and they want steaks they want stakes and they want you got to get there. Hey, did you see my Netflix special blocks that I keep talking about on here?

At one point I point out in the special. This thing, you know how you're like, that's not a watch? You're right, it's not a watch. It's called a Pavlok. This thing gives me a small electric shock every three minutes on stage to remind me to smile more. Been happening the entire show. Let's back up.

Let's back up in time. So when I first started doing standup, I was very uncomfortable on stage and I have a sort of serious face. And so I would give somebody money. I would give somebody a hundred bucks. This is actually a good incentive to just do in your life. A hundred bucks. And I said, for every time I smile, give me 20 bucks back. First time I did it in a 10 minute set, she gave me 20 bucks. So I only smiled once, my point.

So then I was thinking of a way to, I'd seen those BDSM like collars where you can shock your lover in a kink way. But I was like, I wonder if there's a way that I could shock myself as a reminder to smile on stage or to move around on stage. That's another thing. I don't know what I Googled, but Pavlok came up. P-A-V-L-O-K. And it was kind of exactly what I was looking for. It did have the remote zap so I could you know how kinky i am so i love that and uh and then i could set it for every 90 seconds to zap me on stage or whatever and it actually works in fact i'm going to uh bring it back because i keep doing this thing you can stop biting your nail it has a thing where if you if it goes above a certain, it'll zap you. So if you're biting your nails, it'll zap you.

I do this thing where I pull my beard recently. It's just a weird nervous habit. It's just a feedback loop I can't get out of. It gets you out of the feedback loop because it reminds you, like, don't do that. And then eventually you just stop wanting to do it because our brains are stupid. Right now, Pavlog is celebrating 10 years of transformative impact that has revolutionized the lives of over 400,000 individuals worldwide. If you're ready to bid farewell to nail-biting, procrastination, and more, then head over to Pavlok.com and use code NEAL at checkout

to enjoy 40% off any device. That's a legit good deal. That's P-A-V-L-O-K dot C-O-M and use code NEAL to save 40% off while kicking bad habits today. Kick them. Taking your life to the next level has never been easier thanks to Pavlok. You know I use it. You've seen me use it. I use it. I use it you've seen me use it I use it all right my control and you've just sort of seated have you seated control to your lack of like have you just gone have you accepted that part of yourself well here's what's funny we're in my podcast studio right now uh-huh yeah i hope it's not lost no no uh this just seemed like convenience it is it is yeah like that i'm with you but it was also like i'm going to the airports right do i care right but uh yeah have i have i seeded it yeah but i think jenny my wife jenny wouldn't say so you know what i mean like i like i feel like on a on a day-to-day basis

if you don't eat what you if you're if you don't do stuff with your kid the way you need it, do you then, does it flare? Do you get a flare up? Yeah, I think I get anger. I have this thing, one of my blocks that I told you is yelling. I hate it when people yell at me i can't i i like i have people in my life who have yelled at me and like i just don't like talk to them anymore it's like i just like i can't go there i can't i can be honest anyone can be i feel like

anyone can who knows me well knows they can be honest with me even you and i talk on the phone sometimes like you'll tell me things that are just like critical but true and yeah and i mean i the famous one is after your show i said like not as good as the not as good as the last one better than one before that yeah like yeah i don't know if that's true but it's my opinion. That was your take. Yeah. But like, yeah, I can take like frankness. Yelling somehow like shuts me down. And so like to circle back to like, what do I feel when I lose control? It's like anger. And it's like a thing where I, and I think that my dad expressed it when I was growing up through yelling, which some people say this healthy.

People say yelling healthy. I don't know. Maybe it healthy. Some people say yelling is healthy. I don't know. Maybe it is. But I don't do it. And then I end up feeling like anxiety from it. From other people yelling or from you yelling? From other people yelling or me feeling like I'm out of control and then feeling like anger from it.

How do you deal with like having to change things? Meaning if you're directing something or your show, or you're like, hey, I need it a certain way. I've gotten, I think over the years, I've just worked on the language of, I really would love for this to be like this. Can we try to figure out how that might be like that? And I,

so yeah, it's hard to get there. Yeah. I, cause the instinct is this. Yeah. And it's like, how do you get,

why is that right there? The instinct is a flinch. Yeah. It's, it's like a hot stove. Right. Right. So it's like, to me, I's it's like a hot stove right right so it's like it to me i it feels like uh a hot stove if somebody's not doing the thing i need the thing that we talked about right the thing we agreed to and they're not doing it feels like a hot stove and you're getting to the

point where you're going like you know what stove would you mind taking yourself down a few degrees and i'm gonna i'm gonna take my hand away stuff and i just hope that you understand stuff that this is in no way a judgment on you like i can't i may never get there i'm get i've gotten better wow i've gotten better i i was directing a commercial like a couple days after an iowans good thing and and i was like and they just weren't doing i go you know what maybe we're not supposed to get this shot right and by the way then i got it but i my i did get a moment of like you know what maybe guys i i maybe maybe what i'm asking for isn't realistic but i'm the part of me there's still always going to be a part of me that

i think it's and i've talked about it on here before because me and dave didn't get how big the way we wanted paid a price yes and then so now i'm like am i gonna pay that price again yeah i'm gonna be in the woods for five years again? Because for a myriad of reasons. Wow. Yeah, so I basically try to think, what's the worst thing that could happen? That was like a piece of advice my dad gave me when I was younger. That's always been a good mantra.

He yelled it at you? He yelled it at me. No, my dad gave me two good pieces of advice that have stuck with me. One is what's the worst thing that can happen in like every situation? And the other is just like, he said his dad used to say this to him.

Are you having any fun? And those are like two good pieces of advice. Yeah, a barometer for what? Are you having any fun? In any situation. Like, are you enjoying this at all? And is that, and then move, stop? Yeah, if you're not having any fun, then sort of why are you enjoying this at all and is that and then move stop yeah if you're not having any fun then sort of why are you doing it if you're not enjoying it why are you doing it

which i think is a good piece of insight but but what's the worst thing that can happen i even say to my daughter a lot who's eight you know because it's like if she's upset about something it's like oh yeah i know you mean but like you know what's the worst thing that could happen and then when you talk through what's the worst thing that happened like usually it's not that bad like even as like in a practical form you're shooting movies like if we don't get the shot maybe after lunch we could shoot it or we could pick up a version of it tomorrow or whatever it is like it's actually usually the stinks aren't like we'll never get it yeah i i guess i go into i catastrophize it i do too where i'm i told him i would get it i look incompetent if i don't get it yes i'm it's gonna fall apart if i don't get it we're not gonna be able to get it after lunch

yeah we're not gonna be able to get it tomorrow why can't i get it now i told you what we needed yes you know what i mean and then i get into blame i get it now? I told you what we needed. Yes. You know what I mean? And then I get into blame. I get it like catastrophizing and like, and also let's talk about you. You said you would do, and none of it's good. Yeah. But you're right.

You're right in that. I'm trying to think of the times I've been on a very pleasant, in a pleasant environment creatively or professionally. Yeah. Where it's like, this is pleasant. This is very nice. It's all a little chaotic. Yeah.

Generally speaking. Well, it's funny. I have a joke in The Old Man and the Pool where I say, they say we project onto our partner the part of our parent who is hardest on us. And I don't think it's entirely true. I think the reason I married my dad is he loves me. sometimes i wonder why because i'm a bad boy and and it's a fun little joke that gets two or two and a half laughs exactly yeah exactly yeah but it's like it's uh it's a block i mean certainly projecting on to people i project on to people a lack of they

don't respect me yeah little because you're because your dad probably well my dad was like didn't respect anybody and then i'm the youngest sense i'm arguing with 20 year olds when i'm five yeah who aren't and by the way they're crazy you're arguing with 20 year olds when you're five yeah and it shows i'm still i haven't changed one ounce of tone but that's true like i've been and you know some of these 20 like crazy so so that's my tone but finding a better and not taking it personally not personalizing stuff it's just best of luck no i know best oh i know no i trust me but how did you get to a point of i guess if you hate yelling you won't yell and i guess if you hate losing control you won't lose control yeah and i think i think that the the downside of the not yelling is like, it probably comes out in the form of just speaking in a certain way.

Like there's a yell talk. I call people buddy. Hey, Neil. Buddy, I'm right here. Why are you yelling? Because that's what I do. Like my producer, Will, I'll go like, buddy, come on. And he's like, hey, when you call me buddy,

it feels like a little bit like make a wishy. Right. And I don't mean it that way. Right. It's like if I were like, are we doing this? Yeah. Are we doing this? Yeah.

It's like I'm not yelling, but it's like. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So people, that's a whole other issue, which is how people interpret your communication style. But I'm fascinated by people who were able to i'm fascinated with people that deal with conflict from a place of needing in a certain way yeah

and because those are two those are almost cross purposes which is i things have to be a certain way or i freak out yeah but also i can't i don't freak out yes no i know i think that's tricky that's that's what that's why some people say like you know it's like more that you suppress of your feelings well that's what i'm wondering are you do you come across passive-aggressive to people you work with i don't know i i hope i don't i think you'd have to ask them but i you you know, like my director, Seth Barish, who directed all my solo shows, like he I don't think he thinks I'm passive aggressive. I actually think we have a really, really, really open dialogue. Like we because we talk about our we talk about our blocks in our process.

Yeah. We talk about how we're both averse to conflict and we're both. And we'll have like we'll really, really, really have it out in terms of like not fighting but like but just like being really really honest yeah but um yeah that must that do you have acid reflux yeah a little bit i feel like you've had it in the last 20 minutes. Yeah, I think that's probably true. This is a good exercise. Well, we noticed.

What's the exercise? The blocks. It's a good exercise. Oh, talking about it? That's interesting. Do you not talk about it very often? No, I think like I don't do it in such a direct way. Like what are your blocks listed?

Yeah, I'm of the mind that it minimizes them. I was going to say when you yell at people, that it minimizes them i was gonna say when you yell at people it totally minimizes them in a bad way like that's the thing that i i feel minimized then i yell they feel minimized and then it's everyone's just upset i was opening for a comic once i won't say who early in my career at caroline's and uh there's a light for people who don't understand comics it's like there's a light says you know you can get off the stage in a minute or a few minutes wrap it up they turned the red light on then they turned it off i didn't see it so i didn't know i had the light i was supposed to do 10 15 minutes i did a half hour and the, and I was like, oh no, like come off stage.

And the headliner just goes, what the fuck were you? You know? And he's like yelling at me at Carolina. So the stage, I just shrunk so hard. I'm so sorry. I had no idea, you know? And it was awful. And the, and the, and the guy and the person's wife was there and and and she goes he won't

remember this tomorrow that's true that's true of people who have anger issues that's interesting yeah the key is i'm finally just recently crossed the precipice into not taking it on knowing that they're like they're not they're not even gonna remember so it just blows past you yeah just it doesn't happen that often but i've had bad experience with people and been and had the thought they're not gonna they're not gonna remember this they don't i just know i i know what they're like you and i have a thing in common in addition to artistically we make similar tone tones of shows or have but like you we're also both talkers like i'll call you or you'll call me and we'll pick up the phone which no one does in gen z adult life yeah the next generation whatever's x after x yeah and we'll usually get to the heart of the

matter pretty fast yeah i wonder with the next generation they don't talk on the phone they text i'm like isn't text averting tone and as a result isn't it getting away from what's actually happening able to relate to this i find gen and some jenzy or millennial y and z and millennial have acknowledged this they are the most insincere group of people i've ever met in my entire life is you ever hear a compliment from someone it's like you died what do you mean like you're iconic oh my god you're literally iconic you're like you have to shut. You're literally iconic. You're iconic. You have to shut the fuck up. Oh my God.

There's no possible way. It is such an honor to meet you, Mike. Just stop. Just say hi. Quinta Brunson said to me that I was an OG and I wanted to pass out and die. I was like, I'm 40. At the time, I was like, I'm 40 at the time.

I was like, I'm 42. Shit, I'm older than you and Have They came out 26 years ago. Now. Hi. Hey, you know how doing things is a nightmare and that buying tickets for events is toward the top of that nightmare hierarchy.

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Download GameTime today. Last-minute tickets. Lowest price. Guarantee. Okay, that's being yelled at oh this is anything with physical strength okay does that count as a block no oh yes i'm saying like yes yeah and i have a fear like i have a fear of honestly like being handed the ball or being handed anything where, like my dad's a doctor. I always marvel at that as anyone who works in medical profession or anything where they

have the stakes of another human being. In their physical. Yes. Yeah. In their grasp. I'm just like, I don't even know how you do that. Go ahead. In their grasp.

Are you afraid of physical weakness? I'm afraid of failing on someone else's behalf. I have a similar but much lower stakes. I don't like slicing cake. That's a good one. I don't like slicing cake in front of people. I don't like it. Go into the other room. I'm going to slice cake in front of people. I don't like it. Go into the other room.

I'm going to slice this cake. I've never carved a turkey. Never will in front of people. That makes sense. Because it seems like there are people who know how to do it. I don't know how they know. I know I've never been classically trained. I really don't even

know what a successful slice entails yeah yeah i get that so i get the the fear of i don't like like last week i was shooting something in a gym and it was basketball gym. And I was like, should I shoot in front of people? There's that meme of like Drake with an air ball. And I'm like, do I need to shoot? Should I shoot in front of my crew? Yeah. That seems bad.

It does seem bad. Um, and, but I, I was, it was, I was passable. That's good.

I have a, I've had observation. Uh, I'd said it to learn. Mike is one time I go, you never wear shorts around people that wear free right he goes no never yeah pants i don't even need to see people's feet yeah millennia i've always talked about that no shorts on stage oh you can't wear shorts you can't wear shorts i don't think you should one time i wore shorts i've told it on the podcasts. I went to go see Paul Mooney at Caroline's wearing shorts. And he goes, you look like a little boy.

I was like, well, that's a wrap on shorts. That's a wrap on shorts. So I get the physical. It is. If you ever go to a basketball game or the Knicks game, if you good seeds are good enough, you might have the ball for a little bit. then you're like what do i what do i like yeah there's this element of like what are you gonna so i i get it and there's i think in some

ways you're better off just staying out of that realm but if your realm is like your dad is surgery yes that's you know but they say surgeons all have huge egos oh that's interesting maybe i think doctors have big egos generally yeah um so i wish you all the luck in the world not maybe related maybe maybe maybe not related vegetables i really have vegetables i don't know i don't think that counts but sure i did write it down because i've noticed it recently because you've gotten i've from what i understand you've started swimming for health i started swimming i started eating better basis of your entire show yeah what it would you say you're in good shape yet yeah i reversed my diabetes i talk about my diabetes in the old man one of the most unlikely diabetes cases i never would have guessed i know i was really surprised

i was really surprised this is funny can i tell you something i was really surprised like it's a secret from your past yeah but the oh my gosh although i mean you go down the statistical road of how many people have diabetes in america and how many people are pre-diabetic in america if you include pre it's got like 40 million right it's like i think it's more than that maybe yeah i think it's like it's a lot it's whatever the it's i pop you got you i was pre and then i was no i went pre and then and then i didn't get better. Pre, changed nothing. Type 2 diabetes, now I'm pre still.

Oh. I'm still pre. And there's nothing much you can do about it? I've tried. I've tried. But yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I was youngest, similar to you, big family. I wasn't youngest of 10, but I was youngest of four.

Yeah. And so it was at that point where my parents were like, all right, we're done parenting. And so then they just like, I just did a lot of stuff on my own i ate a lot of diet yeah i ate a lot of steak them got a lot of pizza at shrewsbury pizza steak them is is bad for you steak strips do you remember i mean look i know what steak them is if you think a kid from philadelphia doesn't didn't have a lot of experience with steakums my name my friends had them growing up steakums had a lot of steak everything that's easy and instant yeah macaroni and cheese steakum

hot dogs hamburgers all this stuff i was eating was just processed didn't you at a certain point think i need to stop or i guess it didn't happen no no weirdly like no because your metabolite at least my case my metabolism like was fine with it in my 20s it was like yeah you're good and then your 30s your your body's just like no yeah you can't do this anymore and then you start feeling bad and so i start changing my diet but like but actually like like having my having a daughter where I'm like, hey, maybe you should have green beans or broccoli or whatever, has made me think like, well, I should have that too. I mean, this is crazy.

Like, not for me, but you. Yeah, like she's eating mushrooms. And it's like, I don't like mushrooms, but I should be eating mushrooms. This is ridiculous. Yeah. What have you just like cut out completely? You know, honestly, like lately I've been cutting out like a lot of processed food. You should.

Yeah. I've been cutting out like hamburgers and stuff because I started thinking about like how many iterations this went through. I could tell you what to watch. The thing that made me a vegetarian. Really? If you want to watch it thing that made me a vegetarian really if you want to watch it which one is it it's a documentary and it's called earthlings oh and it came out in 2007 and i remember talking to ellen and i go i'm a i'm a vegetarian because i watched the documentary she goes earthlings oh my god yeah no way because once you see it you're like okay i gotta now for some people listening and

watching don't watch it because you're right it's gonna ruin your life ready yeah unless you're ready to stop eating meat like that yeah but it'll make you realize it just shows you what how they get how it happens and it's and there's a front line about the meat industry that's also just fucking disgusting oh wow so i wrote this you're interested yeah i wrote this joke this week about because i've seen a lot of those kinds of documentaries but not that one didn't make it done but i wrote but i wrote this joke about like i watch i watch porn i go i'm not happy that i watch porn because i'm aware of the ethics of the, the,

the, the porn industry, the same way that I've seen all the documentaries about the meat industry. And yet I always enjoy a nice fried chicken sandwich. But, but, but I just think those ideas can peacefully coexist, or I should say they're going to have to,

because good luck trying to get people to stop watching porn while eating fried chicken sandwiches. I've seen a lot of the documentaries and I saw the porn documentary. You've watched that? Yeah, the one with Cheetahman. That's a really good documentary. Still watch porn. I watch less. Correct.

You have like a meatless, you have a pornless Wednesday. Do you still watch porn after watching that documentary? Yes. This is a whole separate whole separate did it make you think twice on it i have a bit about how documentaries have ruined pretty much everything yeah yeah it's true and uh and yet i still and when i say i'm vegan i say i accept sundays when i eat a shitload of ice cream like yeah so so it's i think if everyone just did a little something yeah my porn consumption changed other ways okay um but but that's a really good documentary yeah it it definitely like it there's a i think there's two of them where they made a series yeah i can't remember but i i'm gonna consider watching earthlings to your recommendation but i but it's true it's that thing where you go

i know if i watch this that i i'm never it's gonna make things worse yeah yeah yeah jenny and una are both vegetarians so it's i mean i'll be supported around the house we'd love to see it we'd love to come join us except sundays all right this is a good one fear of mediocrity yeah you have a fear mike burbiglia has a fear of mediocrity how's it manifest itself and what do you think it's about it's a very vulnerable thing for me to say because i know that like oh no you're hearing like too late yes exactly in the comment section immediately like i believe our comments this is who you are what's that we have a we have a we have like a take back our streets philosophy about the

comment section yes so we have like special units we have we police it pretty quickly um yeah i have a fear of mediocrity and uh and a good portion of my day is consumed with the thought of like oh yeah what I'm doing is mediocre or what I made 10 years ago is mediocre and I will feel that way about what I'm doing right now eventually is mediocre and that is always running in my

brain I mean that's sort of why like when you see my live shows like when you see Old Man and the Pool there's like nothing in it that is timely to now like because i want these things to be to age as long as they can because i immediately cut to you know watching eddie murphy's you know 80s specials now going like oh god you're one of the hundreds of people a year who watch old comedy specials

if you heard my my i there's no such thing as posterity mike it's oh no you're absolutely right it's over no one's watching it no one cares i remember when i was talking to you about these kinds of shows and you're like there's some guy did a show in the eighties. See if you can find it. It's like Mike. And that's a guy who was definitive. Yeah. And you're like,

ah, we do it. And you're still like, ah, I don't remember his name. Yeah. Ah, the good news is no one's gonna care.

It's so funny. Cause we were talking about literally someone who in the 80s was doing solo shows i won't say who and they're like he was like dylan at the time like you know yeah like he was huge and like no one talks about this person solo shows yeah that's and that's what i'm saying that's what we're that's what we're but what i'm but there's also a lot of liberation in that which is oh yeah which is i don't i i don't think they need to be like incredibly short-lived yeah but that's that's uh of its time i think this thing of watching bring the pain over and over again yeah thing of watching dave's killing them softly over and over again yeah i think of watching dave's killing them softly over and over yeah or the i just don't think it happens anymore no i think you're right and i think it they're used to not it's a joke i'm doing which is like the reason 50 million people watched all the family

is because there was nothing else to do the counterpoint to that is like but why do i still watch the movie broadcast news because it's a narrative narrative yeah and what we i mean i guess you have the characters yeah you like the characters you like the and by the way you're it's a real small group who watches broadcast news yeah it's a small group um look you're very tasteful people you're incredible people and everyone recognizes that but do you know what i mean like there's there's a small these are all i'm not saying don't have quality i'm not saying what i'm saying is it's it's it was in a draft of blocks that you read which is william shakespeare is alive writing his plays writing his sonnets crushing it yeah and his mood on average is about

a 4.8 out of 10 then there's a guy down the street craig shakespeare cannot write plots plays couldn't his sonnets don't rhyme he stinks and his average mood is a 7.7 who had a better life oh everything in you in you is gonna say william shakespeare right but i don't know mike right so you're basically on mood yeah because you're like oh he's he's a happier guy. What's a life well lived? Yeah. I don't know. What was it like for you? Yeah. Was it, to quote your old man, you having any fun? Yeah, that's right.

Honestly. This goes to one of my blocks, which is I'm unable to live in the present. I've actually been working on this. I got served a TikTok, and it was pretty good. What does that mean? You get served a video on Instagram or TikTok. It just shows up in your FYP or whatever it is. I was like, is this a tier I don't know about

where they come to your door and they serve you? My algorithm served me like a motivational speech thing. But it was actually, I think, pretty good. And it was particularly really good for me, which is like the person was like your inclination when you wake up in the morning is to think about the past but actually what you the first thing you should do is don't check your phone don't look at your email whatever it is uh don't even think about yesterday just write down the things you would like to do today be kind to people you know do something nice for your wife or your

friend and i started doing it recently and it's really effective it's a really good tip just think about what you want to do today yeah just think. Just think about today because all there is kind of is today. And the more I did it, the more I actually was like, oh my God, I really get bogged down in the past constantly. Yeah. I get bogged down. I mean, Don't Think Twice is all about that. It's like being jealous of a person. But what are being jealous of a person but what do you

what are you jealous of you're jealous of what's what happened in the past or what they've done or what they did wrong that annoyed you but it's like getting past that's huge can you believe how much help we need yeah yeah can you believe that we still as people have to go like every morning yeah like okay we're thinking about the present now it's so still how many 15 000 days yeah yeah fucking 40 40 how many thousand days i don't know how 40 times times 360 anyhow fear of media okay well the the thing i want to say about the fear of mediocrity was uh what if you're mediocre right who cares it's true but what does that mean it doesn't even mean anything it's it's it's this thing of and i think this goes to you know as comedians we're evaluating everything all the time how is this coffee good is it bad is it is it ridiculously bad you know

how can i talk about this on stage you know i was watching like seinfeld get interviewed by stern and stern goes like when you're with your wife are you authentically with your wife are you saying oh no no universal and i can relate to that no i'm not authentically with your wife? Are you saying, ooh, what she just said is universal and I can relate to that? No, I'm not authentically with her, nor am I authentically with you right now. Right. You are somewhere else. There's material in here. Yeah, I'm looking for a joke right now. There's something happening right now.

Guess what? There's nothing here. Everything is a bit possibly. And so the mediocrity thing is like me looking at the world and looking at a ton of really mediocre people and being like, well, I don't want to be that and it's like well guess what you probably are and also what if you are exactly what if you are well you probably are i mean that's yeah but and i know i know i don't know that thing i was saying about shakespeare it's like so do we put cra Craig to death because he can't write? Craig Shakespeare? Yeah. Yeah.

Because he can't. His sonnets are garbage. No. But you and I will secretly think less of him. If we're in a room with William Shakespeare and Craig Shakespeare, I probably am going to gravitate toward William. Yeah. That's right.

But again, is that the mark of a life well lived no i know but you've schooled me you've schooled i don't we'll never believe it we'll never but i think there's something to and yeah and and then what right well it goes back to the thing my dad says what's the worst thing that could happen it's like who cares yeah it actually doesn't matter yeah do you feel that way about parenting or does that feel important i think that there's a with parenting there's a degree of you have to do a certain amount to make sure that you're doing enough and then beyond that, I witnessed a lot of people over over parenting. Right. That's a very common thing. But I do think like, yeah, I you you. I had Stephen Colbert on my podcast. I go, what's parenting advice that you have?

Because he's a good dad. He goes. He goes, I think he said a more more Sendak quote, which is like, just love them. And I think that's true. And I think about it a lot, actually, with Una. It's just like, just love her. That's all that you can do. And then everything else shakes out and is out of your hands. You'll be doing something, and you'll see her and be like, love that. Yeah, literally. literally try to to turn

everything else off yeah and yeah i think he's i think maury sendak and and stephen colbert those are some smart people okay letting people down yeah it's a big one here's a good do you think people have expectations of you where you say i have it with you you you and i were on the phone the other day and i and you mentioned someone who didn't come on the podcast and i was like my i was like oh i don't want to let neil that neil are when are you coming to town i'll make sure to come on your podcast right just as an offer in case you want it i don't want to let you down as a friend i don't want to let neil neil are when are you coming to town i'll make sure to come on your podcast right just as an offer in case you want it i don't want to let you down as a friend i don't want to let jimmy car down as a friend i don't want to let my jenny down as my wife you know like i don't know i that's just that's just drilled in me i don't know where that's from well i would say it's common decent i

would what you might want to say it again for the you might want to say it again I think you're good it's your podcast I'm doing the thing sorry there was a siren and I just am a little bit neurotic about it I just remembered a thing from my childhood

I had an aunt that was like very like probably just some sort of nervous condition and we and i i don't know if it was my idea but we went and threw a ball like a baseball like near her just to fuck with her yeah but i was thinking it'd be funny if i like had a bunch of sirens and noises outside just to see if you could handle it like huh yeah yeah are we good with the sound okay yeah um the letting people down is it catholic boy stuff yeah like i think it's you and i both have that we have that in common i was you know uh you were altar boy too right yeah yeah and uh yeah just yeah letting i don't know if it's catholic letting people down um i honestly don't know where it comes from it's a huge part of my life do you think people have

expectations of you naturally because there's a part of me that's like some of this could be ego but then i also think some a lot of behavior and expectations are just like no we've all kind of agreed to like a certain way to be and then i'll try to behave around there i have it with audiences so like i was in madison at the comedy club last week and after every show i think about whether or not I let down the audience or whether or not the audience felt going away, like it was better than they expected. I always think in relation to you always want, I think Louis Black said this, uh, on stage when I was opening for him early in my career, where he always give people a little bit extra, you know? And I think that's a really smart way to look at life. It's like, you always want to give people a little bit extra you know and i think that's a really smart way to look at

life is like you always want to give people more than they expected and then it just puts people in a better headspace and i i but i i have that in space like i don't stop thinking about that like i was calibrating it last week for example like i like in madison i was like i was like the first show i didn't like how that ended and so then i i went into my rolodex of like bits from old man in the pool and i was like well if i ended with the wrestling story from old man in the pool it'll the audience will understand what it's like to see a bit that's not a new bit that's like what it's like when it's all put together like all the jokes are put together in a story and and it and it worked but like i i just think about that all like all day like i can't i don't know about you but like when i'm doing a show at night i think about the show

all day of course i don't yeah there's not i listened to my set on saturday yeah like i was doing a show i did did two shows Friday. Other than the guy DMing me successful. And then, but I'm still, I'm not, I don't think it's like, I can't imagine ever like resting.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's pretty good. Obviously you, you release the thing when it's, or you go, that's the show. But even within the show, there's line reads that you want. Like, that's not kicking.

Yeah. What happened there? Yeah, what happened? Like, why isn't that? So I don't think, I think it's the same thing where it's just, that's why I don't, I think you're just good at, you care about a thing and you're good at it. Yeah, maybe. But I think it's a problem. I think it're just good at, you care about a thing and you're good at it. Yeah, maybe. But I think it's a problem. I think it's a problem.

Do you, but, all right, well, I guess letting people down, are you a people pleaser? Yeah. To the point where it hurts you? I mean, I think it's possible, yeah. I think I'm incapable of, I mean, but this is not specific to me. I think I'm incapable of, like you're saying resting. I'm incapable of sustaining like joy. Like, like it's funny because Ira Glass was on my podcast for my hundredth. He said this thing that's true, but I'm kind of like, yeah, like he like he's like like do you ever think about the fact

that that your public persona is someone who's just eminently relaxed like there's something very relaxed in your presentation on stage and i'm like right but it's not insincere when i'm on stage i am relaxed yeah i'm experiencing the release of the tension that all day. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not false. It's real. But do you find yourself hurting yourself to please other people?

I mean, it depends on how you define it. Because I don't know. I don't. Not that I can think of. But then you might be like, but what about this i'm like oh yeah you're probably right yeah like i negating yourself to make somebody else feel good or codependency or anything yeah i think i'm i'm just better at being on stage than i am being off stage i think off that was the next thing yeah being being yourself off stage or on stage yeah off

stage is is uh it's just more challenging i I think like I find myself constantly, yeah, trying to hold up, overhold up my end of the conversation. It's like that Brian Regan bit of. Taking a cab to the airport and I'm getting out and the driver goes, hey, have a nice flight. You too. You too. Yeah. With your flight. You ever get on a plane.

In case you ever fly someday. But the reason that bit is so good, in addition to his act out of it, is there is an overcompensation that people like me have that is trying to always make it work. And it's not always going to work. You know who captures it so well? It robinson on i think you should leave it's like that whole show is you is you too yeah is uh what yeah i guess yeah i'm supposed to laugh into the microphone and so i'm gonna you know yeah it goes too far i'm of both minds about it because i i used to be a i'm i have i'm more of an introvert than maybe you are and and then i also learned boundaries

in a 12-step program oh you did so i learned boundaries but then yesterday I was here I was walking with a friend of mine and I went into a store and a bunch of people recognized me that worked there and she was like your mood changed and I was like because I had to then be

it became a performance it is yeah because I didn't want I didn't want it to be I didn't want it to be a story of like, yeah, that guy he's an asshole or he's quiet or I just wanted to be like, yeah, he was funny.

But you're kind of just doing crowd work at that point. There's a funny I saw an interview clip from the musician moby uh-huh and he goes the best thing about being famous is knowing it's not finding out it's not good and so then you don't want it anymore right yeah which i think is so smart yeah because he he says this thing he goes everyone in culture has some degree of they want to be famous or what would it like to be famous and you can't know until you know and when you know you're like oh yeah don't want that yeah i i'm of i'm of it's there's upsides and downsides yeah the guy gave me 10 off so right there right there yeah so do you should Right there. Right there. So should I go on? So that's 10% off.

But you don't have any anonymity. The anonymity part. Again, it's like if you, yeah, the anonymity part. That's like the hard part. But 10% off. 10% off, sure. So, okay, here's my final two questions. How have you improved as an adult?

I'm much less reckless than I was in my 20s and my teens. With what I say to people that could hurt their feelings and how I could behave that hurts their feelings or makes them feel bad or whatever. Like I, when I look at my, particularly my twenties, although when I look at my teens, it's bad too. Like I almost don't even like, I don't even think of people in their twenties as being adults. They're, I don't think they are. Like adults? Yeah. Like I think it's only in my like roughly around 30 on where i started to have a consciousness of like understanding that if i'm if i'm just casually saying some random criticism of some person or something that they take that in people yeah there's a quote where it's like people the job of person is to constantly underestimate the impact you have on other people. Like this, I'm just going to say this thing. I'm on my way to somebody, something else. I'm going to thoughtlessly say a thing that you're going to think about for seven

years. That's right. And we don't even think about it. I did a corporate gig once and it went badly. And then the guy, I came off stage and the guy goes, does it usually go that badly? and then the guy i came off stage and the guy goes does it usually go that badly and i think about it's like 10 years ago yeah 10 years ago that is that in i what i should have said was nothing in that in one no no it's not even no no that's another another hell again yeah but like but like i think about it to this day and i think that that's what i exercise or i tried to exercise out of my personality from my teens and 20s is just like is like saying things i you know part of it is i think part of it is you can't imagine that anything you do or say would have any impact on other people right it's kind of like this thing of like you know there's that old like trope like

like you don't know your own strength you know what i mean like yeah like you hit you push somebody and like they fall over you're like oh i didn't know he's gonna fall over yeah it's like no literally like your words and your actions like can make people feel terrible yeah and i feel like i didn't grasp that until my 30s and 40s like Like, I'm just like, I just didn't clock it. And I feel bad even thinking about it. Yeah, I don't. I think it's hard. I just think it's hard to, especially we're trying to be funny.

We're trying to be clever. We're trying to be energetic. We're trying to be all this stuff. And we also are value. We get, if you do crowd work, you're saying things at a split second pace you're gonna say and you wanna and you what you value in terms of i like i know for me i value uh i find honesty helpful in my personal life now having, having said that, I've stopped talking to people for being rude to me. So I'm a total hypocrite. I just think like,

well, you know, whatever it is, my first special was called, my first hour was called what I should have said was nothing. And I feel like that in some ways was the actual lesson of my 20s is like,

you don't have to weigh in on everything. Yeah. You actually don't have to tell people how you feel all the time. That's the social media lesson. Yeah. Like I't have to tell people how you feel all the time that's the social media lesson yeah you like i said things to like people i dated in the past where i look back and why would i say that like i was like like i'll i'll have said like like you'll be like why why why aren't we seeing each other anymore whatever and i'll be like i don't think you're intellectually curious you know and it's like why would i say that like there's no re like that person doesn't even know i thought that was controversial i still think it wasn't but a girl got upset because i said

you're not as healthy as i thought you were oh interesting which i don't think is a diss it's just like i thought you were like a portrait of health and it's you're you're you have problems wow but i didn't even say that specifically but people think that i was wrong to say that if you think i was wrong to say that there's a dozen other things you don't then i'm not going to tell you yeah there's so many but i generally i i have a thing where i won't tell people why we why i don't want to do. You're you're correct though. Yeah. You're none of that.

It's just my own. It's not, it's just my, it's like, I'm not, it's not a tasting kitchen where I go, this needs more pep. It needs more peppers for me.

I don't know. Like I'm not, they, people aren't offering themselves. Like, how should I be like the year you were you, I was me. It didn't work. Didn't work i be like the year you were you i was me it didn't work

didn't work out and also like you can and also there's ways to say nothing like it's maybe timing i don't know you know what i mean like it's just something that has nothing to do with either of us you know it's not maybe not going to work out yeah and let them put it together sure later or maybe it's like it all is fine it's all gonna be fine and also the odds of these working are so slim p i think that maybe the lesson in it is like people don't need user reviews correct yeah i totally agree unless they ask unless they specifically ask they don't need a user review you don't have to criticize people and it's funny because our fucking job is criticizing people and so like we get like a sharp.

That's the other thing. You end up with a sharp blade. A sharp blade. And then you don't know. Like I even like things I said to comics in my 20s. I'm like, oh, what was I saying? Yeah. Like it was so insulting to that person.

And I didn't even know it. Yeah. Like I thought that I was just being having camaraderie with another comic and then like oh no I was I was essentially like shiving them in their gut like where they already were wounded for 20 years yeah yeah so that's that's the thing so you got better with that all right and here's the final question and this is you're the first person who's actually done movies about his life what's the movie of your life who plays you oh yeah what's the movie in my life what's the art i mean certainly like uh you know who plays me is paul rudd because he's

just a handsome man who doesn't age and he's and he's so funny and he's as funny as any of us yep and you can get him on the phone and you can get him on the phone and he came to the show and everything and uh so he knows the material he knows the tone he understands it yeah i'm sure he does a passable for biglia he i mean he can i mean i think the guy can do anything yeah i've seen him on broadway i've seen him in movies he's just he's he's as good as there is i think as a comedy as a comedy, yeah. So that's who, I think that's who plays me. And then. And a decent guy.

Nice guy. Yeah. Really nice, yeah. He's one who when people come up to him and they do, he's very, very nice. Yeah. He's extraordinarily nice. And then the movie's about, I mean, honestly, I don't think, you know, it's like the expression, like the eye can't see itself.

It's like, I make autobiographical, semi don't think it's like the expression, like the eye can't see itself. It's like I make autobiographical, semi-autobiographical stuff, and yet I don't know what the movie is. But what's the big arc? Because you've done many arcs. No, but I don't. Or are there episodes of a bigger arc that you're unaware of? I don't know. I'm striving for, at this stage in my life, I'm striving for a healthier approach to my life where I do the things that we've talked about in this podcast, which is living the present, being kind to the people in my life, focusing on what's happening today and not what happened yesterday.

And so I don't know if I succeed in that. I feel like in all great movies, it's like Craig Mazin says this on the Script Notes podcast. He's super smart, I think. It's like every great movie has a thesis. And the protagonist is trying to embody the thesis and fails at it. Do they believe it's his thesis or a thesis? It's, in other words, it's the writer's thesis. Right.

That the protagonist just so happens to encounter or cross paths with. And basically the protagonist gets knocked on his or her ass by the thesis in life. You know, something happens. Oh, well, I can't run away from this anymore. I'm going to have to deal with it. And then you see the character do battle with the thesis. And by the end, the antithesis, which is usually a tragedy, to go back to your Shakespeare analogy, or they have some kind of communion with the thesis, and that's a comedy in Shakespearean

terms. And so is my life a tragedy or comedy i don't know it hasn't ended yet so we don't know we don't even know that part like if i whatever if i drove if i became super irresponsible and i drove off a cliff you'd be like oh that's a sad story yeah he was a comedian he's a pretty decent guy and then he like drove off cliff yeah because he lost his way so i don't know i i don't know the point is i don't know what do you hope it is you hope you hope it's about improvement i hope yeah i hope it's about there's this great episode of this american life called numi and you mmi and it means continuous improvement and it's about how it's a great episode people want to to listen. It's like, uh, about, uh, Japanese assembly lines of cars and how they try to bring this principle of

new me, which is that anyone on the assembly line could point out how they could make an improvement like, uh, and they will consider it. Like maybe we'll do that. And that's why the Japanese assembly lines of cars became so successful. And they tried to bring new me. And this is what that movie the michael keaton movie

gung-ho was about in the 80s was they tried to bring that to detroit and it didn't and i think in real life it didn't quite work yeah like they tried to bring that and people were like no i don't know whatever yeah it became user reviews yeah exactly but uh but yeah so i'm always trying to think about it continuous improvement all that kind of stuff in relation to making movies and my podcast and my and my act my hour and and do i succeed at that i don't know i mean i i don't think anyone can know yeah so i wish i i wish i had a better answer but that's sort of well the good news is we have a cast and it's paul rudd now we just need a script even we need a story yeah and and and then we'll take her from there yeah that's right i mean i i there's got to be like who you were and who you

are and who you'd like to be. Yeah. I think that's right. I think that's right. What is the story? What is that? Well, I think that that story becomes like you take some part of sleepwalk with me, which is, or,

or old man in the pool, like brushes with death, having cancer, jumping through a second story window, sleepwalking, and then real, you know, realizing when did you have cancer i

was 20 and bladder cancer that's talking about an old man in the pool yeah i know it's wild i had a bladder tumor took it out didn't come back super lucky yeah super lucky i was actually working on i've been working on this you can hear it on the ira glass episode of my podcast but i've been working on it for a story for this american life because i talk about this idea of like i had blood in my pee that's how i found out and it's a symptom but it's like if you have a symptom you're lucky most people yeah most people don't get symptoms it's like some people fall asleep at three in the morning driving and they fall asleep but that was no symptom. There is something about your life that is a bit, babe in the woods is the wrong,

because you're not naive. No, I don't think I'm that naive. But you're like being spun around a little bit. For sure. Do you get spun around in Girlfriend's Boyfriend? For sure, yeah, literally. I thought you were doing emotion from i am like the scrambler kind of what your yeah please stop the ride a lot of your existence is where you're

like i have a kid i have cancer yeah yeah diabetes i actually think one of the things i have to deal with which is challenging is the thing you're saying, which is like, you, you're not naive, but you have like a baby in the woods kind of thing. I have to deal with that a lot because in show business, everyone always thinks I'm new and they always think they're discovering me. So they'll be like, Hey, you got to come do our stick with it.

Yeah. You got, yeah. Stick with it. I get a lot. You're going to make it. i'm like literally like i i remember doing sleepwalk with me in 2008 and there was a the side of the building at bleaker street theater had posters of new york times reviews and all these nice things and i'm standing out there and this person goes stick with it i think you're

gonna make i think you're gonna make i'm like i'm on the side of a building new york city like i at what point do people go no no this is it um but yeah that that's a tricky thing is like i forever have people thinking they need to like help me like but i'm like i'm good i'm good i'm working but it's a good voice it's a good comedic voice yeah meaning so like right i guess it's like you're so competent so to have it's like will ferrell or something to have the shell be like ah i'll try writes a thousand jokes i'll see what i can do 10 shows like it it does seem naive but it's like very focused and and but these things happen that are overwhelmed that are like bigger than that are would make anyone seem naive no one goes into cancer being like

all right oh i know you would know way better than me seeing as you've had it well it was weird because ira said to me on my show he goes how did it feel and i go i disassociated like when i had when i found out that i had cancer that's i by the way side note you've told me that that's always ira's sort of how did it feel like that it feel? Like, that's the only question. Yeah, that's the only question. How did it feel? And if you're lost in a story, it's like, how did it feel?

Yeah, and then I said this thing. I go, it's like, it's disassociation. It's like you're in a movie. You're living, you're the character in the movie. And all of a sudden, you're watching the movie and you're like, that's a sad movie. That's how it felt. So to answer your question of like, that's a sad movie. That's how it felt. So to answer your question of what's the movie version,

I think it's the brushes with death and then realizing that it could go at any moment. And also going from disassociating to associating. Associating, yeah, yeah. Being conscious. Oh, fuck, like being John Malkovich of like, No, that's what I'm saying. See, I don't really need an extra bath mat.

Like, oh, fuck. All right. I'm in this. And this is... This is hard. Yeah. Tell you what's not hard. Podcasting, guys.

That's right. Not when you're like me and mike all right um thank you and thanks uh if i haven't said enough thank you for all your support through the years and all the generous Everybody wants to have it, wants to have it grand, my man All you have to do is open, open up your hand, my man you you