Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Rainn Wilson

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Rainn Wilson (new book 'Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution') about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Glowing Intro 3:20 Soul Boom 11:47 Anxiety  18:18 Growing up in Bahà’í Faith / Studying Religion 26:34 Senior Citizen Anxiety 33:30 Talk Shows 35:30 People Pleaser / Spiritual Practice 47:30 Gratitude  51:06 Satan 54:05 Hypnosis  57:39 Dwight 1:03:59 Post-Traumatic Growth  1:05:20 Spiritual Disease  ---------------------------------------------------------- https://nealbrennan.com for tickets Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle  ---------------------------------------------------------- Sponsors: https://rocketmoney.com/NEAL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Look for new value programs when you shop at Loblaws, like Hit of the Month. So you get the best deals and low prices on amazing products every month. And did you know PC Optimum members save more? For exclusive offers and members-only pricing, just scan and save. And don't forget InStock Promise, where you can count on great offers being in stock or get a rain check. Discover more value than ever at Loblaws, in-store and online. Conditions apply. See in-store for details. My guest today is, you got nominated for Emmys, right? Probably?

A bunch of them, yeah. Yep. Did you see that response? Didn't win. Ray wrote a bunch of books. I'm reading one of them currently. It's called Soul Bloom. Throw it on up there. Soul Boom, actually. Soul Boom. Called Soul Boom. one of them currently it's called soul bloom throw it on up there soul boom soul boom called soul boom and uh like i said and that my guest today rain wilson ladies and gentlemen america's sweet tart right um i heard your introduction to jim jeffries because i was listening to a

bunch of your podcasts you were way more salutary to Jim Jeffries than you were to me just now. Here's what I said. You glowed on him. No, no, no. He's one of my top 15. Totally true. You want the glower?

Here we go. I don't need Jim Jeffries. No, you don't. That was a little bit phoned in, if I'm going to be frank. Because, okay, I know how hard it is to find someone like you meaning when sure was casting mike sure was casting um parks and rec after the he was like who can i get to play what ended up becoming nick offerman and it was hard and then when I saw Offerman I was like good and I felt the same way about you I was like don't see people like you on screen often

you're a unique person and a unique actor and they were you were you were uh let me know when it's enough uh we're gonna be here all day day. You were a unique find and you were hugely additive. And on a show like that, you want to be excited when they cut to you, when they cut to whoever. And my guess is the audience was always pleased to see your story. And my enormous face. That was much better. And I want to tell you a showbiz story. Can I tell you a showbiz story?

I love them. That's why I moved out here. So Nick Offerman and I always used to go out for the same roles. We always, we'd see, and we'd see each other. We'd come in and be like, oh, kind of. Yeah, one of us is getting it. Character actor with big head is, okay, how are you? We would even do table reads together.

And it was always just a pleasure seeing him he was such a kind and affable gentleman and when i got cast on the office i brought in nick offerman i'm like you gotta see nick offerman he's perfect for the show i brought in his headshot i told allison j, the casting director about him. They brought him in, they put him on the wall and they were like, got to find something for him. And it kept not like working out for him to be on the office. And then sure enough, pun intended, sure enough, Michael, sure enough, when they went to Parks and Rec and they had his big mug on the wall or like, this might work because i sure asked

me and i was like i don't know jim broadbent like that's how deep i was like i don't know he's won an oscar broadbent yeah he's no one knows who he is right but he's great in terms of what he was sort of talking about sure anyway but you both you both hit it and you both got the part and you both syndicated i hope you're happy. We're very happy. Couldn't be more pleased. I want to talk about your book real quick, which Soul Boom. Everyone knows that. And it's basically like a bit of a spiritual guide or primer for spirituality or some idea.

Like you've traveled, you've studied all the as many religious tomes as were available or you had time for. And it's your conclusions maybe? That's perfectly put. It's a primer. I've traveled and read a lot. These are my conclusions. Yeah, I've always had an interest in spirituality for a number of different reasons. We can get into it or not get into it as you prefer. number of different reasons we can get into it or not get into it as you prefer. And I say I kind of have a secret inner Oprah, which I know is a weird thing for a kind of an odd looking character actor who's on a sitcom. This is not normal territory, but it's something I've been fascinated by and studied a lot. And I really feel like this book was necessary. It was necessary for me. I think that understanding that we are on a spiritual journey can be really beneficial and helpful to us individually.

Like that helps me. That's the thing that religion ruins, which is they make it a bunch of rules where in my experience with spirituality is it makes life better not because you can rely on a jesus or any of that stuff it makes your life better because it makes it less literal yeah it just makes it less like you can't eat that meat you have to eat that one you have to kneel stand okay this day that day it just isn't that isn't anything i i would push back on that a little bit i get. I get where you're coming from. That's a very, I don't want to insult you by saying that's a popular opinion,

but I think for a lot of Gen X people, they're kind of like religion is bullshit. It's morality and rules. I don't need that nonsense, but I do like to meditate or I do like to contemplate God and the transcendent mystery of the universe. And this helps fulfill me. It helps reduce my anxiety. It kind of makes my life a little bit richer and that's all great and good. But one of the things I do delve into in the book, especially in the latter half, as I've kind of like warmed up the readership a little bit, is have we lost something by culturally jettisoning religion the way that we have over the last 30 years i'm with you i i did a daily show piece one time about like republicans especially need jesus republicans y'all need jesus wow they've stopped they that used to kind of be like a harness for them like well we want to be

christian or whatever and then they have they don't even pay at lip service anymore yeah and it's and they it's a free-for-all in terms of their behavior the the again the truth is when you dig into the numbers about just happiness and well-being people red state people in churches are happier yeah they're happier they're more well-balanced, people, red state people in churches are happier. Yeah. They're happier. They're more well-balanced. Community.

And they have community. And that's what it really is all about. One could say, like, well, we've jettisoned religion, but we haven't replaced it with anything. Some people have replaced it with yoga classes or 12-step meetings, which is great. But maybe we need more Dungeons and Dragons clubs. More on that later. Or more. But maybe we need more Dungeons and Dragons clubs, more on that later, or more- I hope a lot more.

I have something to say about Dungeons and Dragons. I feel like you do. We know. We know you do. I have a lot to say about it. But I do think that we've lost something culturally by having a group of people that get together, that believe in something bigger than themselves, that want to commune with each other, with nature, God, the creator, the creative impulse, and do service for others and altruism and sing together and potluck together. There's something beautiful and strong and purposeful about that, that we've all kind of been like, yeah, screw that. We've thrown the, as I say, the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater in some ways. And obviously religion has been the cause of, look what's happening in Gaza right now.

Look at the amount of shame and hate and pain and war and death that's been caused by organized religion. So that has to be honored as well yeah i have a observation or theory whatever you want to call it that religion it's the cause of all wars but it's also saved a lot of people from being punched in the face seriously like just it's small it keeps like a small interaction from getting crazy or, or even in, I, the idea of God is like super cop,

right? And when there's no one around, are you going to do the right thing? Cause God's super cops watching. So I think that's not as, I don't think that's the ballast to cause the war, but I think people are going to go to war. I think they're saying it's for God.

I think it's mostly for real estate or just malice. Anyway, I think that's well put. I call God in my book, sky daddy. I like that. Uh, similar,

similar thing. So Santa Claus is the same thing. It's like keeping track of who's naughty. Yeah. But my, my thinking reading it is rain might be on a fool's errand okay and i don't i don't think it's not worth doing but my own whenever people go like when we go i'm gonna change that guy or i'm gonna change or i've done that with people where like i think i can change yourself you know

what i mean like how how easy it's changed yourself How much have you changed in life? 15%? Like what's the most you've seen someone change without almost dying? I will say I've changed a lot. And I'm very pleased with that because, but mostly because of 12 step recovery and therapy. Yeah. Either you either got to go to a meeting every day yeah or you got to almost die and and yeah that those are the two catalyst the two best catalysts for change but don't you think that humanity kind of like a 17 year old on a kind of vodka and cocaine bender is about to hit bottom humanity itself yeah but when he okay i. So you're saying don't even have the conversation until humanity hits bottom.

No, I don't. I think the only thing, there are times from, you know, my well-covered ayahuasca and DMT stuff where I imagine a form of a rapture. And then I imagine people's shift in consciousness around that. It's so massive. I can't talk. I can tell them like, hey, you might want to. You're in a tough position because you don't want to not do anything. Yeah, but I believe that I grew up in the 70s

when people talked about world peace, and people believed that world peace was possible. Beauty contestants would say world peace, world peace. But you'd also have Carl Sagan talking about world peace and Nobel laureates talking about world peace and Nelson Mandela talking about world peace. And there's part of me that's still grounded back in that day. And I'm showing my age. And, and, and I, this soul boom, I wanted to just be, you know, if it, if it, if it helps a couple of people think about like, oh, I might be able to make my life better with some spirituality in it. And I might be able to use some of these tools to help my community be a little bit better. So be it, even if that's a couple hundred people, is it a fool's errand? Absolutely. It is. But at the same time, I just feel like you got to do what you got yeah you got i mean i mean i'm working in climate change too that's kind of a lost cause we're

not going to change we're really not going to significantly change until tens of millions of people are dying from extreme weather events and it's very clear that it comes from climate stuff and the world gets together including including like China, who has made revolutionary progress in China. And then they're building coal plants all over Africa. So it's like, no, that's not how it works. No, I agree. It's one world atmosphere that we all share. I think what you're trying to overcome is greed in all these things things meaning i think when you say world peace yeah and then you go well what happened to those people i think they had kids and then they once you have kids you're like i fucking need money and how am i gonna get the money that i've seen it

countless times all right let's get into some blocks number one Yeah. How many times has that been on your show so far? Several. But, you know. Yeah. Why? Why is your anxiety? And what's it like to have it? Well, we were talking about this the other day. Actually, before we enter, I think I'd like to speak about the Montreal Just for Laughs Festival this year.

Okay. Tell them the joke that you did about me. Oh, I had a good one. Yeah, he had a good one. Go ahead. I can't, I can look to see if I have it written down somewhere. It was Neil Brennan proof.

He gave a speech about sort of like the state of the- State of the world of comedy and like what you need to go through, the sacrifices that the great comedians have gone through in order to reach the top. What I've learned from them. And in Neil Brennan's case, it was like become friends with Dave Chappelle when you're a teenager. Fantastic. Which I was like, okay.

Then the next day I was, there was a award ceremony for a bunch of people. Bert Kreischer was one of them. And I gave Bert a nice intro. was there was a award ceremony for for a bunch of people Bert Kreischer was one of them and I gave Bert a nice intro and then oh it was funny but it was it was whatever it was good and then and then Bert was on stage receiving the award and he was crying uh and we're all I'm it's me and Bert are on stage and um Bert's crying and it's like he goes you know i'm not like the the best look i'm not the funniest guy in comedy to which rain yells out from the crowd you're not the funniest person on that stage crushes kills what if what if 30 40 second left

yeah um so that's i just wanted to i could play with the big boys. Make a pit stop and give him his flowers for. Thank you. Now I'm feeling, now we're getting there. You slap me and then you nurse me back to hell. Now we're getting there with the Jim Jefferies. Yes. Okay, equivalency. So the anxiety is from when and what's it like so um anxiety uh has been with me my whole life

where when it really started to show up was when i was about 23 24 i started having panic attacks and anxiety attacks where uh i was living in new york i was living in brooklyn i was unemployed i was just out of acting school um and they would crush me. They would come out of nowhere, mostly for no reason, sometimes for a reason. How did you figure out what the reasons were? One of the reasons, one of the triggers was when you're taking New York subways and it just stops and it just goes off and it just goes, and it's just like deathly quiet. I would start to get a panic attack. Like we're going to die. I'm going to get crushed.

The East river, which is above my head is going to fall down and sweat would start pouring down my forehead. My heart would just start pounding. My muscles would start, would start flexing and I couldn't catch my breath and I was certain I was gonna pass out. Fortunately, at that point, I had had many of these, dozens of these. The first couple of ones, I was on the verge of calling an ambulance.

I think once I did call an ambulance and then canceled it because I thought I was having a heart attack. You're on the street at this point? You're not in the subway? Yeah, that was just at home. And sometimes they would just happen for no reason, like watching TV, reading a magazine, and all of a sudden this panic attack would come on and I would feel like I'm going to die. So shortness of breath, tunnel vision, throat tight.

I had just started therapy and got diagnosed kind of with an anxiety disorder. And then it's been 20, 30 years of unpacking. My mom took off when I was a year and a half old. My dad got instantly remarried in a really unhappy and some would say kind of abusive home situation. And some would say kind of abusive home situation. And anytime you have kind of like an abandoned kid living in kind of a rage-filled, loveless home, that's a recipe for anxiety. Because you don't know, you don't have a permanency. Like, oh, shoot, what's going to happen next? Yeah, the foundation is barely there so

the the panic attacks went away but i've been dealing with uh and a lot of like stuff around which i've talked a lot about i don't really want to get into too much about you know drug and alcohol abuse but i'm i'm poly addicted and anything is porn i I had a gambling phase, you name it. Whatever I can do to try and medicate that anxiety, I realized that that was a source of the addiction stuff too. So nowadays, I liken myself as someone that has diabetes where you've got to take your blood pressure and your blood sugar and you've got to monitor and go into the doctor every once in a while. And it's just, it's something I can live with and something I can even thrive with, but I've got to be very, very careful about it because it can take the reins and, and also it can kind of make me a dick. And there was many years where my, I would let my anxiety run the show,

especially on workaholism, which is an addiction that not a lot of people talk about. You know, my constant- Well, it's like the good one. You mean you love to grind? Yeah, yeah. I remember- You love to grind too much. I remember back when I used to read Vanity Fair,

they would always have in the back like some titan billionaire. Yeah. And it would be like, and he's got four divorces and he never sees his kids, but he's made all this money and started all these businesses and he works 87 hours a week. And he's got four divorces and he never sees his kids yeah but he's made all this money and started all these businesses and he works 87 hours a week and he's like oh we're supposed to look up to this

is a titan of industry you know a job creator again that's not vanity even vanity fair or it's all of american culture now it's every podcast yeah how are you gonna grind yeah yeah you need to drink juice and fucking cold sauna or cold plunge and then you're going to be a star. Here's how you build your audience and whatnot. But anxiety feeds into that. Like approval, show business, wanting acceptance and people pleasing. It's all connected. Kind of like anxiety drives all that stuff.

You grew up in the Baha'i faith? Mm-hmm. I lived in Wilmette, Illinois, where there's a Baha'i temple. Did you go to Nutria High School? I would have. We moved. Oh, okay. Yeah, because I went there for a couple of years to Nutria.

Did you really? Yeah, because my parents moved over to the North Shore of Chicago. Yeah, there you go. Did you ever go in the temple there? Yeah. About as beautiful a structure as I've ever been in. Gorgeous. When did they make it and how much did it cost? They laid the foundation for it in 1912, started building it in the thirties and forties and it wasn't finished until the fifties. Part of your, I know that you had a loss of faith before you came back in the past decade or two and your parents were devout yeah did you sort of i always see catholicism i grew up catholic as the it's like

introduction to hypocrisy like here you want to know what hypocrisy is here how everyone here lives versus what they yeah claim to be yeah did were you was that part of your loss of faith? That's hysterical. That's really well put. And yeah, 100%, that wasn't all of it. But one of the things that was so weird was Baha'is are all about love and unity and peace, right? Like most world's religions are.

So we would go to all these Baha'i meetings. We would sing like Kumbaya, Baha'i songs, like pray, meditate together, read holy writings of the world's religions because Baha'is accept and believe in all of the world's faiths. And we talk about love and bringing people together, healing racial prejudice. It's all about like healing the world, using spiritual tools to heal the world, which I'm very much into. And then we'd come home and my parents wouldn't talk to each other. And they certainly weren't having sex and they certainly, they weren't loving and they would fight and there would be broken dishes and doors slammed and yelling. And, you know, I remember many times we would have a Baha'i gathering at our house,

but they'd be in the middle of some fight. And people would be coming in the door, and she would slam and break dishes in the sink, walk, my stepmom, walk through the living room, slam the bedroom door, kabam. And my dad would go, okay, so does anyone want any tea? And you're nine years old. You're like, what the fuck? Yeah. What system is this? What the hell is going on here?

And then you start to see, because any religion, you're going to see hypocrisy because people are assholes and we're trying to be better people. But oftentimes the asshole wins out. And then when you get into the Holden Caulfield stage, as I did in around 20, 21 years old, I'm like, fuck this. I don't want to be part of this bullshit. And I don't want God and morality and the rules and all this hypocrisy that I see around me. I don't want to be a part of that. Well, here comes the anxiety. And how did you figure the anxiety thing out? Or is it just accepting that it's diabetes thing that you're going to have to keep your eye on

at least if not treat? So mental health, we talked about this the other day, but the whole conversation about mental health is getting a little played out. It's super important to have, but I also feel a little sheepish even talking about

it because everyone is talking about their mental health struggles which maybe is a good thing and i think it it can be yeah it's like it's the hacky things can be correct yeah meaning wayne's world one of the greatest movies ever made yeah but people started saying schwing and not and all that shit so which was aggravating yeah that's what she said in your case and hallmark cards five out of six times they're pretty right on the money yeah yeah they just it's they're too on the money that's the problem is wayne's world's too. That's a great analogy. So in the 90s, when I was having these anxiety attacks, I had a lot of other issues going on. I didn't know what to do. I didn't have any money.

Therapy was not really an option. I went to therapy when I was at NYU, and then it was too much money after that. And so I did the only thing I knew how to do, which was to look at a possible spiritual path because I thought, oh, I've jettisoned the Baha'i faith and I'm not having anything to do with God. Maybe there's a spiritual way for me to rectify all this imbalance that's going on in my life. So I really studied a lot of the world's religions and read foundational texts from Hinduism and Buddhism and the Bible and many other different religious faiths

because I was searching for some, I was being selfish, really. It's so funny. It wasn't like I was like, Gandhi, I'm going to heal the world. It was like, I feel shitty. How do I make myself not feel shitty? I had the same exact experience.

Let me look through these texts. Self-interest is a fine motivation. It's a fine motivation. My girlfriend now, I'm like, I'm not doing this for good. This is all totally motivated by my own need and desire to feel good. This is not an act of generosity. But the Blocks podcast and special helped a lot of people. And you're interviewing top celebrities and

B-list celebrities, hello, about their greatest and deepest vulnerabilities. That's pretty damn helpful to the world. It is. I like having the conversation. That's it. That's basically it. I like their conversations I would not have with people that I like having. Maybe I'm just nosy.

Have you ever been altruistic? Have you ever extended yourself and made sacrifice for the good of someone else that didn't benefit you? Yeah, I was in the Big Brothers program for a year or two. Like, I've done plenty of stuff like that. A year or two, really? Yeah. Could you have done three or four years?

Really? Come on. I could have. Sure. Could have. But you could have walked here instead you drove how into the environment are you um so i i i'm i say that to say self-interest is a fine it's like most people get into showbiz is for the girls i went on to uh um the the author of The Artist's Way, Julia Cameron, once said, I came to spirituality out of necessity,

not out of virtue. Yep. And that's how it worked for me. I was miserable. My life was falling apart. So I started doing a deep dive into spiritual tools that would help me feel better. And lo and behold, they did.

So that's part of why I wrote Soul Boom, to share some of those. But then as I started really thinking about spirituality on a greater level, I do feel that there are spiritual tools that we as a species, as a community, as contemporary American culture could put to good use to make our lives better communally.

Totally agree. You ever just like pay your bill without really looking at it, like your credit card bills. And then you, every once in a while, you'll actually look at what you're getting charged for. And you can't believe some of the dumb stuff you're getting recurring charges for like memberships of places or from apps or whatever.

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That's rocketmoney.com. Highly recommend. Part two of anxiety. I just want to say there's a new chapter of anxiety. I am now getting senior citizen anxiety. Say more. So for instance, little things will be broken at my house and I will unceasingly worry about them.

You know how when you're with a senior citizen or a relative and they're like, yeah, I'm just worried that Marcy didn't get my message and she's not going to know that it's no longer a potluck, but that we're serving dinner and you're talking to your 87-year-old aunt or whatever, and they're just so wrapped up and you're like, hey, hey, it's going to be fine. Marcy's going to be fine. Even if she brings something, we'll eat it. It's good. Yeah. Okay. And then it's gone. And then 15 minutes later, but do you think we could just call her again? And like that kind of worry, I find myself slipping into my anxiety has kind of morphed

and gone to the next level where I'm worrying about ridiculous bullshit, like the remote control to my gate on my driveway, not working. And I'll, and I'll be obsessing over it is it a because my two thoughts are you're worried about things breaking down because you're breaking down and or i need to settle this with marcy before i die so you're saying there's might be some kind of like shadow underbelly i don't think i mean if you if you say it's it's senior citizen worry yeah what else could it be but you've experienced that with seniors before right absolutely yeah so maybe maybe it's some unprocessed thing that needs to get worked or it's processed and nobody wants to

die you know what i mean like you can process death all you want i really i mean they'd say like there's a mushroom studies psilocybin where people in cancer patients it eases their fear of death cool but they didn't say it eradicates it eases it yeah yeah and they have more or less a death sentence and it's still like instead of like fuck it's like okay but who wants to stay alive forever i mean think about it do you want to be like if instead of like, fuck, it's like, okay. But who wants to stay alive forever? I mean, think about it. Do you want to be like, if you're like optimally healthy at age 37, do you want to stay like 37 for a thousand years, 10,000 years, a hundred thousand years? It's a burden on hand.

Yeah, it's a burden on hand. And I think when people think about old age, it's a lot of like all your friends die culture changes I'm knowing a lot more people dying now being in my 50s it's kind of crazy somebody referred to it as Sniper's Alley Sniper's Alley the great Steve Brill

an avid listener and friend and great writer Mighty Ducks and wrote and directed a bunch of shit for Sandler on my birthday it was like welcome to Sniper's Alley and now he sends me when people die people die yeah you're like all right i i hear you and then apparently at 60 it gets better fewer people die what i don't know that's what he claims and then i and then there's people i know are like why aren't they dead why yeah why did this guy die and this person who eats cheeseburgers every day i think some

people are just durable yeah i think they're just made they're just made of durable materials yeah yeah i'm with you on the on that anxiety thing and i don't really know what to do about it other than and i said this on your podcast i'll get it from my content mail as well. I was on MDMA and MDMA, I'd just written my will and MDMA said, you're going to, a voice told me, you're going to die soon. So now I've turned it into, unless I enjoy myself more, they're going to kill me. I will die soon if I don't enjoy things more often. And there is some truth to that from a health standpoint. Yeah, some.

But then there's also, we know plenty of very bitter, very old people. Also, in your will, will you just leave me one pretty much worthless random thing? I'll leave you a bauble. I'm going to leave you one of these lights. That's fine. Yeah, great. Yeah. It could be like a butter dish. Great.

Anything. If something like Neil Brennan got hit by a bus, Neil Brennan's lawyer called. Hello? Hello, Neil Brennan's lawyer. Yeah. Butter dish? LED light?

Yeah. I don't know if you remember when the season of Sanford and Son, when Red Fox was on strike. So they did the show without him. And I don't know how many episodes they did, but they every the opening scene of every episode would be like, hello, Fred. So, okay. So, and again, this is a new anxiety. And do you treat it the way you treat all your anxieties? Yeah, you have to. First of all, it's really important.

I believe I have come to understand that it's really important to embrace anxiety. Anxiety is our friend. And it's been- Why? Anxiety is like, it's similar to addiction. It starts as a coping mechanism. So anxiety is there to protect you, right? Like you feel unsafe. Your wiring is like, I feel unsafe

and this thing is making me disconsolate and discontent. I'm afraid of outcomes. And that's good. That's there to save our lives. Humanity has always had anxiety, right? There might be a bear in the forest. When I hear a twig break, we? There might be a bear in the forest. When I hear a twig break, we're not going like, ah, the glory of nature.

We're like, fuck, there might be a bear that's going to eat my face. So we're wired for anxiety and it's there to protect us. And you start by embracing it and like, thank you, anxiety. You're a good friend. You breathe it in like, okay. And I fortunately have the knowledge like rain, you're, you're worried about the remote control in your gate. You're worrying about your broken sprinkler. You're obsessing over it. You have a diagnosed anxiety disorder, you know, bless it, give it away. You give it to God. You surrender your control over your, your sprinkler or your remote or whatever

it is, or the job you're not going to get or next month's rent, or if your girlfriend's going to break up with you or not. You surrender outcomes and you just enter into the process ever more deeply into a kind of serenity and connection to the universe. That's how you can use it as a stepping stone to get more grounded. What if it's performance based? Cause I get anxiety on that show sometimes. Yeah.

And I'm, it doesn't feel like it's my friend. It, if it's saying like, no, I know audiences are scary. This is, you're not telling me anything.

I don't know. Yeah. To me, it doesn't feel friendly if if i can't breathe can barely see can't think straight and have no recollection that i've ever been good at comedy you brought up you brought up the the shadow stuff there's something unprocessed going on there emotionally with you around that. I used to have a terrifying, crippling, anxious fear around talk shows. I'm not kidding you. Because talk shows, for those who don't know, are one of the strangest

setups imaginable. The whole thing's very unnatural. Completely unnatural. You sit down next to someone. You have prepared stories. No, you don't. You sit near someone. It's near someone kind of facing an audience. That's way behind you. And you're kind of at looking at the audience, but not really. And there's either a hundred or a thousand people in an audience, depending on the talk show. And you have semi-prepared stories.

Yeah. That you know he's going to ask you. He's going to give you the softball. So I understand you went on vacation to Hawaii recently. Something crazy happened and so you've you've gone over the material but you're like fuck i might screw it up yeah and you want the audience to laugh and to like you but it's all being captured on camera and who cares if 370 people are watching you 370 000 people are going to be watching this so do you play to the camera do you have a conversation with the guy or do you play to the audience it's's a very weird setup. I used to have in the middle

of a live talk show on Leno, on Letterman, Conan, I would have those same anxiety attacks. My heart's beating. I'm starting to sweat. I feel like I'm going to pass out on the air, on the talk show. What did you do do how many of those did you have five and i worked on it the first was that therapy up there was that appearance one through five or it was like one no it was nine yeah it was like every other one exactly there was always high anxiety and stress but where it was like on the i felt like like I was going to pass out, um, was about five times interspersed. One part of the problem was I was drinking way too much caffeine at the time. So I would like pound a diet Coke for energy right before the talk show. So there's something

physiological going on there. But when I really unpacked it in therapy and I also do hypnosis is, um, I'm such a people pleaser. I want people to like me. I don't want them to like me. I want them to fucking adore me, Neil. I want them to love me and think that I am the greatest, most brilliant, delightful human being on the planet. So if I've got that going on where there's this people pleasing

and it's for those 370 people and it's for those 370,000 people, and it's for Leno or Conan or whomever it was back in the day. They don't let me on the talk shows anymore. My Hollywood worth has deaccelerated. Then I wanted to be adored so bad that, of course, my inner child is going to start freaking out because I'm not going to get it. So I had to unpack that part of my child, of my child shadow need stuff.

And then I was able to release that. And now I can go on a talk show and not have any issues. And how long did that take? 10 years. Every week? Pretty much. Not really 10 years. That's a bit of an exaggeration. Two or three until I was functional and then another three or four years after that of continuing to process that. There's a great spiritual allegory here, which is by the time you're fully prepared to do something, they will no longer book you. Perfect.

I couldn't get on Kimmel or Colbert now. Even if I had a movie coming out, they're like, oh, no. It's very hierarchical, though. Oh, I know. The world of the talk show. Cut to a clip of me on Kimmel or Colbert. Nothing. It was funny because I went from early on in the office, I was the B guest.

So I was the second guest. The first guest gets two segments. The second guest gets one short segment. Sometimes they get bumped. I went from that and then graduated to the A, then back down to the B. And now I can't even get on. Well, how do you deal with that as a person? I mean, as a real people pleaser, that's a sign of you're not pleasing us. And it's, it's fine. And I,

I really have, uh, been, I've been working hard on that, you know, and it drove me crazy. If you would have talked to me seven years ago, I would, I was literally like pulling my hair out. Like the office has ended. I'm not getting shit. I should be in these other things. And I'm rapidly fading from the cultural conversation. And it was difficult. It was a struggle for me. Because I don't know anyone who does this that isn't in that.

I said this to you the other day. Like I could move to Montana and raise bees. Now, I don't give a fuck i really truly don't that's not occasionally it'll twinge me that you know the show i did didn't get picked up or the movie that i did didn't get into sundance or i got rejected from this one thing that i was up for um you know and that hurts it twin it stings but it doesn't have a hold on me the way it used to. The recovery time's shorter. Yeah.

And I feel like I've had a good run. I did 10 years of theater. I did 20 years in Hollywood. Now I'm doing a podcast, writing some books. I'll keep acting. I mean, I still have some roles being offered me. But yeah. Was it just getting all that inner chatter in check kind of?

It's been a long, slow process. It has to do with my spiritual practice and meditation, with my belief in a higher power, trying to align my will with the great creative forces. Will, what do you call God from your ayahuasca? The central creation force. will what do you call god from your i was the central creation force i try and align my will with the central creation force um as much as possible my will my will rain's will is to be adored fatted a-list movie star roles handed to me millions of dollars sponsorship opportunities ad campaigns um bestseller books best buddies with with Oprah and with Greta Gerwig and just at, and being fetid everywhere I go. That's Rain's will, right? But that's just trying to feed that abandoned child that wants to be adored. And it took a lot of unpacking. What is the great central creative-

Force. Force, because there's Central Kitchen. That's a different thing. Central Creation Force. Central Creation Force. I give money to them. Just FYI, you wanted to know what I do. Yeah.

I give them money. What is it called, World Central Kitchen? Yeah. That's a beautiful organization. Jose Andres. Amazing what they do. And they're feeding Palestinians now. What?

Yeah, so I try and align my will with that and that that keeps me much more uh healthy and i'm in a really good place great right now well yeah i mean who knows see that's the thing with all this all the whenever i advocate for anything i think advocacy makes it sound easy you just go go, no, you stop driving a gas car. Or I'm an environmentalist. Yeah, I fly private. I almost feel like that has to be built into it. Here's what I aspire to, and I can get there sometimes.

Whereas I think if you come from a place of like fame or celebrity or success and you just go no you did it this is what you do dumb people i think there has to be an element of like i aspire to this yeah but so you're saying you aspire to humility i aspire to detachment the other the the true the central creation forces will and not. So in Buddhism, the number one teaching is that life is suffering. That really, the word that was used was called dukkha, which is Sanskrit or Pali for anxious discontent.

So life is anxious discontent. Wouldn't you kind of agree with that, people? Yeah, Neil. Anyone watching this, yeah. So centrally, anxious discontent rules a lot of us and the buddha taught that there is a way out of suffering which is non-attachment and that's that's the whole idea is that if we are not attached to outcomes and the things of this world the kind of like status uh wealth um you know, these things that drive us and that we have a lot of

fears that we will actually find great peace. So this has partially been a therapeutic journey. It's partially been a 12-step recovery journey, and it's partially a spiritual journey of non-attachment. I'm much less attached to the outcome of like whatever the hell hollywood thinks happens to think of me you know whether judd apatow casts me in a movie or not is not going to affect my self-esteem at this point but it's it's been a long it's been a long road with buddhism whenever i've approached it as something i could aspire to do um i think when people think about buddhism they'd go well then i'm i'm not so you're saying if i don't if i don't worry about status or money i'm not going to have status for money and i want it i want it as an american i want it as a person i think people and tribes want to probably be like i wish i was a little up higher up in the hierarchy i'm not gonna do

anything but i i aspire to that right i think with the thing that people don't understand about buddhism is that you're gonna still want that yeah you're gonna still want all the status in the hierarchy and the in the in the money and the fame and all that stuff but at least if you have a Buddhist practice, you can release from it. Yes. And it's not 24 hours a day. We all know you got to make a living, but it gives you, it's a valve for yourself.

It is another self-interest mechanism where I get, Oh wait, this is the way. Okay. I just for, I can be like, Oh, I can be in the,

I just for, I can be like, oh, I can be in the, I can be closer to central creation force and not so dogmatic about like money, fame, success, talent, women, men, whatever. And part of it is just physiology. So the core of our brain is the amygdala, which is like, I want to fuck. I want to be protected from the elements. I want shelter. I want nice stuff for I want to be protected from the elements. I want shelter. I want nice stuff for a number of reasons. One of the things nice stuff gives us, as you can see on Instagram, is it gives us increased status because we are social creatures. And even down in that base fight flight area of the brain is also like, I want to be beloved, right? Which is my issue.

I want to be beloved, right? Which is my issue. And so when you can unpack that, those forces, the reactive forces like, no, I want, and it's anger and it's greed and it's lust and it's envy and all of that base stuff, it's all down there and it helps us as animals. It's saved us. But then as you start moving into the prefrontal cortex, prefrontal cortex, you can start to kind of have an awareness of like, oh, I'm detached. Oh, there's my lust. Oh, okay. Healthy lust is a good thing. You want to be desired and you want to desire your partner or

whatever. Healthy greed, I want to have a nice living. I want to support my family. I want to have some nice things. There's a healthy mechanism, but you can literally move that thought process from that base reactive animalistic part of the brain and start to bring it up into the prefrontal cortex. And that's where wisdom lives and abides. And that's where non-attachment is. So you're talking about having a healthy relationship to accruing things, having a nice career and supporting your family in a healthy way. But there's a physiological, and 12 Steps does that. The addict brain is down there too.

Like, I want stuff, I wanna drink, I wanna use this drug, I wanna jack off, whatever it is. And as you go to a 12 Step meeting and you share and you unpack, and as you pray and you say the third step prayer, and as you make phone calls and you journal and you do your steps, it starts to go up, up, up, up, up. And your prefrontal cortex has a greater awareness and an ability to unpack that addiction. Then when that addiction strikes, you're like, oh, hi addict. You're trying to grab me by the

throat, but I see what you're doing. I love you. I make a phone call. I say a prayer. I meditate, whatever it is. And then that impulse lifts. Buddhism or even Eckhart Tolle or any of these, it's the basic spiritual practice is you just, you're just going to change. You're just turning the knobs a little bit of your brain a little bit and you do it every day and it affects the overall ecosystem yeah it gives another a healthier ingredient yeah to this like what feels like a boiling scalding soup and you just got okay here's a we just turn yeah right but it's yeah but i i one thing that i think bears saying for this audience because i'm picturing the youtube comments like you've got millions of dollars and you're yeah you're adored and you're on the office and like oh you're in hollywood preaching to us about happiness like

and it's like you know what unhappiness hits people that have been on sitcoms and have netflix comedy specials and who drive trucks and who are school teachers. And it's that process is the same. And money doesn't alleviate it, even though it is very nice to not have to worry about where next month's rent is going to come from because I spent a good decade and a half in that state. So it beats the hell out of that. But unhappiness and anxiety affects us from Elon Musk down to a construction worker. It's like when soldiers commit suicide, people are like, well, yeah, he should. But if a billionaire or millionaire commits suicide, they're like, what the fuck? It's like, gosh, there's no difference. There's no real difference.

I want to say something that we talked about on your podcast where i was talking about spiritual practice and me and wanting to needing more gratitude and then later on i said i think muslims are right to pray five times a day you suggested me writing in basically just a gratitude quickly five times a day and i've done it i've tried every day i've done it two days i got four in way better i got four like i have it in my calendar now 10 2 6 and 10 just be grateful and i just quickly can you read some of the gratitudes for us i don't they're in my they're in a paper notebook okay but it's but that's great yeah it it's very helpful yeah it takes very little time of course i go like i don't have time a lot of the

time but like as a north star aspiration most of the journal is you're having an incredible experience an incredible human experience yeah by the way we are all having an incredible experience regardless of your profession or your financial status yeah we have consciousness here we're here we're opening our eyes there's light there's a breeze there's songbirds fucking a man yeah it's yes and i well i say that it's like i and i don't focus too much on like the um career things or the any possession things or any of that stuff it's like no this is a miracle experience and you are not the person having negative thoughts or sadness or depression or anger or envy or jealousy or any of that stuff. You are the you.

Neil Brennan, I guess, is the body. There's some nameless spirit that is happening, inhabiting Neil Brennan. And I am that spirit. And I need if Neil Brennan is experiencing something. I'm not Neil Brennan. I'm the person watching or I'm the thing watching neil brennan yeah experience that stuff yeah and it's a real nice thing to remember every four hours that's great and eckhart tolle talks about that michael singer talks about that yeah the untethered soul yeah exactly and and this whole

idea that uh which i love my favorite quote of all time is from Father Teilhard de Chardin, who says, we are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. Yes. And that's what I want to remind people of. And by the way, you've heard of negative bias. So that's, again, that lives down in the amygdala. We are wired for negative bias. We're wired to, for, we're always under attack

because most human beings have been under some form of attack for most of human history. Yeah, millions of years. Until like 1978. So it's like, oh, I'm hungry. I'm not going to get any food. My traffic going home is going to suck. This isn't going to work out.

I'm going to miss that call. I wonder what that lump is, et cetera, et cetera. So when you go to gratitude, you're just doing that same thing that I talked about. You are lifting your negative bias amygdala response and you're lifting it up into the higher, more wise prefrontal cortex and you have gratitude and it's incredible superpower

that allows you to rise above the anxious discontent. Yeah, and it's stupid and simple and almost cost-free other than the notebook. But if you have a phone, you do it on your Notes app. Notes app. This episode brought to you by Notes. All right, this one's interesting. Satan.

Yeah. So. This is the first. First for Satan? Yes. Yeah. So this is the first, first set first for Satan. Yeah. So in the Baha'i faith, there's no Satan red tailed, uh, demon with a pitchfork, et cetera. So again, this guy that I mentioned before, Abdul Baha, whose name means the servant of glory. He that's his, his title. He came to America about a hundred years ago when he landed at america and he was like oh they called him the persian prophet and they were like even though his father had

started the religion there because he was a wise dude and he had a big turban and a big beard and forget it and so they at he landed and he's this reporter was like this cub reporter was like, this cub reporter was like, hey, Abdul-Baha, do Baha'is believe in Satan? And Abdul-Baha was like, yes, they do. And he's like, well, what is Satan like to a Baha'i? What does Satan look like to a Baha'i? And Abdul-Baha said, Satan is the insistent self. So I just love that. And I think about that a lot because the insistent self for me shows up a lot and it's something for me to monitor and it really it goes to what we've been talking about which is those baser impulses and it's not a healthy self it's the insistent self like why didn't i get that i want to put myself over that i want this me. It's the hungry hippo that lives inside of us all.

It's the same. It's what we're trying to eject from. I love that so much. I can't even tell you because it goes hand in hand with the Buddhist idea of the hungry ghost. Yeah, exactly. Hungry hippo and the hungry ghost. It's the same thing. What happened in Hungry Hippos?

You hit a thing? You hit it and the hippo mouth gets the ball. Gets the ball, all right. hit a thing you hit it and they the hippo mouth gets the ball gets the ball all right and so that's kind of what we've been saying which is the inner monologue the engine the whether it's capitalist i remember a buddy of mine when we went to do ayahuasca he goes are we gonna get to be capitalists after this and yes but you're you don't believe in it quite as much. Right. You have some perspective that there are other opportunities for – there's other ways to be. You're still – in us is – I believe it is a hungry hippo. I believe it's a hungry – that's what our personalities are or the thing that drives our, you know.

We're wired to be hungry ghosts or hungry hippos. Yeah. Either way. Either metaphor works. Yeah. Yeah. And so this Satan. Satan is not a being.

It's not outside of myself. Yes. It is just my baser impulses, for lack of a better word. It's the hungry hippo inside of myself that needs monitoring on a daily basis. And that's where the 12-step and the meditation. That helps. My therapy helps. Therapy.

And I do hypnosis with my therapist. He's also a hypnotist. How often do you do it? I was doing it every week for several months. It's really cool. And do you cover different things? Do you go, let's talk about- You can, you can.

Or you see what you're, by the way, I'm sounding like Gwyneth Paltrow now. This is the most goopy- When you call him a hypnotist, it sounds like- It's weird, right? By the way, I saw a magician- Hypnotherapist, hypnotherapist. My friend, Derek DelGaudio, who directed Blocks, and he also has his own show in and of itself. sounds like it's weird right it's by the way i saw a magician therapist hypnotherapist my friend

derek delgaudio who directed blocks and he also has his own show in and of itself he is always embarrassed being a magician because that's i guess technically what he is yeah and i saw i was in thailand and there was a i was doing a show and there was a poster for another show by a magician, and the magician's name was Ta-Da. And I sent it to Derek like, look, I get it. So when you call your therapist a hypnotist, it sounds like it's the top R-rated hypnotist after 1030 in Las Vegas. Ta-Da. But yeah, no, a lot of the hypnotherapy can be helpful. I like to reiterate it's like

ayahuasca without the ayahuasca because you're doing a similar journey you're doing a journey you don't have a drug to aid you but you're going in like we are all we are like the iceberg that the titanic hit we're 10 above the surface we that's our lives, but we have a lot going on down in our subconscious and it's old fears, but it's also perceptions and wisdom. And, and so it's integrating the two. Cause sometimes I have felt like I'm just this talking head and I live from here up and I'm just like, and it, um, allows me through, it's essentially just a guided meditation. It just allows me a connection with the rest of the iceberg. And that would be your top thing dealing with your Satan?

It's helpful in that journey, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like most people's journey in life, it is you're just trying to quiet the inner monologue and the hungry hippo and the... I wish to hell I had gotten to it before my 50s. I really wasn't that happy before my 50s. Look, man, I almost don't think... I often think where I, okay.

So you're more spiritual than you, but you've always tried though. That's the, the sort of grace I'll give you, even though it's what I'm saying is not very indicting. Sometimes I think when I go, you know, I'm less interested in showbiz than I've ever been. Right. I'm less ambitious. Well, Neil, they're're they seem less interested in

you as well and i wonder if it isn't um a little convenient again that's do you know what i mean like oh absolutely hollywood is less interesting people get religious late in life because it's like well yeah of course you're closer to death yeah you need to career but we used we all worship something right so for me i worshipped ambition and career for a big big chunk of my life it is your it is your north star it's your it was it was my higher power yeah for a very long time and yeah the office is over i do some really interesting projects and got to be in some cool TV shows and movies and stuff since the office. But yeah, Hollywood is generally like that Dwight guy.

And that's the Dwight block though. Could we segue to that? Yeah, let's go. Dwight, are you going to put the big graphics up? We're going to ding it and it's going to come behind him. Maybe we'll put the head on as well. And you can put the head over mine? No, it's going to come up you maybe we'll put the head on as well and you can put his head the head over mine no it's going to come up it's going to be okay dwight it's going to come up behind you but and then the head of dwight with the tie and everything okay can we put it up here

so like i am throttling it no no you don't it's it's moving target okay tell me about Dwight. So this, yeah, this segues into Dwight, which is, you know, the number one question I get asked all the time is like, are you going to be stereotyped as Dwight for your whole life? How do you feel about that? You know, what's it like being known as Dwight for my whole life? But do people ask you that or just people in interviews? Do people at Target ask you that? Sometimes. in interviews do people at target ask you that sometimes i mean not at target but at a cocktail reception or i go to a so like at work but fans don't no but even like fans kind of like you know i had one i have one guy come up to me and goes like you know you can do whatever you want as an actor for the rest of your life i'm only going to know you as Dwight.

I'm sorry. I look at you. That's how I think of you. Yeah. I was like, thanks. Fine. Asshole. But, you know, and I always answer the same way.

I'm like, I'm super grateful for Dwight. Amazing show. Et cetera, et cetera. It's a great, so good. Yeah. People adore the office it lives on. Yeah, it's one of of those great ones in your life show yeah hit the lottery opened so many doors so many doors but it you know it's it's also

it's also tricky because and sometimes and i've gone through spouts where i've really resented being dwight yeah and you know i i went to theater school when you're taught like you play different roles like you go play mcbeth here and then you go do this play here and then you do you play this role and then you're on law and order and you play they tell you that but it's true for one maybe one person in the class probably not and also it's not true it's not true for fucking anthony hopkins it's not true for sometimes he's in a fucking Hannibal Lecter. And then sometimes he's in a fucking dumb action movie with rock. Yeah.

Chris rock and Anthony. You know what I mean? Like, and it's in no matter, he's gotten Oscar nominations for multiple movies, but probably nine out of people, 10 people that see him go. Yeah.

Clarice, which those people are right. Yeah, it's the most popular one. It's the funniest one. It's also the only. Anti hero. That's ever really worked in movies to the point where they franchised them. Think about that guy

he goes I'm going to eat more people yeah people yeah I'm having an old friend for dinner he's gonna eat us

it's a powerful it's an amazing thing that's true that's that's good um but uh yeah so it's you know it's it's kind of a struggle because i still view myself as a character actor that can transform and i can play other roles yeah and so part of me just wants to be a craftsman yeah where like i in, I was on the Bill Mars podcast and he was like, come on, you got into showbiz because you got into showbiz because you wanted to get famous and you wanted to make money. It's like, no, I really didn't. Like, I love acting. I love playing characters.

Do I want to buy a house and pay off my student loans? Fuck yeah. But I didn't come to la right let me just call bullshit a small bullshit real quick he holds a joint in his right hand no people whenever people go i want to be an actor i go great go go to a class or call a friend and you guys can workshop a scene and you're satisfied wouldn't have satisfied you true but what i'm saying is the bill's also right i wanted to make you're both right i wanted to make a living right as an actor you spent the last hour telling me about the hungry hippo yes i i think you have to include it now

in your aspirations trying to call me on something no but i don't i think it's like yes it was there was always a dance between i want to be an artist i want to get paid as an actor i want to buy a house and play cool roles but then there's that part of the hungry hippo part of me yeah like that i want to have to include it i meaning it can you can have sort of shallow aspirations and in the long run realize that it's more than shallow yeah and and they're both true i don't think i wouldn't i i have no i i cast no i didn't say no to fame when it started to slap me around a little bit i didn't say no um but i didn't get into acting to be famous but there's a part of every actor that just wants to be right. I talked about wanting to be adored, right? It's like that

Stone Roses song. I want to be adored. You know it? I don't know. Can we get the rights to that? Nope. Play it a little bit. Spoke to them. Can't get them. We can do a fair use two seconds. Because you're right. If actors don't just do it in a broom closet actors want an audience even if it's 50 seat theater down here in west hollywood yeah um you thrive on creating that character in front of someone or with people seeing you do it so there is some ego attached to that no question so the downside is typecasting talking about it known as that buddy my friend trayvon free had a text to me when we were talking about something and he goes you could become president neil get assassinated and the headline will say chappelle show co-creator and president assassinated

i'm in a similar boat it's true how much pity do you have for me zippo right yeah so what do you want us to feel about you you know what i mean like yeah okay so the thing that i'm trying to include more in the podcast is it's a lot of sort of maybe belly aching or whatever what i'm saying is what are the post traumatic growth things you've experienced instead of all of this like and then and not again that's the way the podcast is set up so it's basically my fault but i'm saying you know there's got to be a road forward for people and what is it yeah i think you've mentioned a lot of them but but or or give me some anecdotes about things where you didn't think you were gonna be able to recover and you this

thing that happened to you ended up being like a stepping stone or building block for your self esteem or your life i will say that the good news is that almost for every decade of my life, I have had periods of incredible, what I would call anguish. So not like being a little bummed out, but being- Inconsolable. Inconsolable, hitting bottom at my wits end, miserable to a degree that I didn't know how to get out of it. and i've experienced that in my 20s and my 30s and my 40s not so much in my 50s was it the same thing every decade no no it was just different different ways that this i remember going to a an aa meeting once and there was this

old guy and he would show up he had a deep thick southern accent and everyone would be like hi i'm i'm rain i'm an alcoholic'm Rain. I'm an alcoholic. Other people, oh, I'm an alcoholic. And then he was like, my name is Joe, and I've got the spiritual disease. So I've got the spiritual disease and the insistent self, right? The Dwight, the people pleasing, the anxiety was always there eating away at me in a different form. And I will say that I got through it and I've worked really hard at it and studied a lot. I've prayed a lot.

I've been on my knees a lot. I've meditated a lot, pretty much daily and a lot of therapy. And, you know, I'm, I'm better now than I was. So I'm actually, uh, happy been like these last 10 years of like, I've been really frigging happy with less upkeep meaning i'm just looking for convenience and ease um no it's it's it's unfortunately it's it's regular 12-step meetings regular therapy daily meditation keeping track of you know like like um insulin you know keeping my diabetes in check which is my anxiety unfortunately there is a kind of a dailiness and a weakliness to it. But you can, it's not that much. It's a couple hours. It adds up

to a couple hours a week. There's a lot of hours in a week. It's 24 times 7, which last time I checked is incalculable. They can't figure it out. Number of hours. I have no idea. 168, maybe. And you can spend an hour of those 168 talking to a therapist about you know wait 24

24 10 would be 240 240 times seven it's more than what i said it would be no and it's 24 times no what i said 160 yeah it's 168 hours spend one of those 168 hours. Spend one of those 168 hours in therapy. Spend two of them in some kind of recovery meeting. Spend- We're around 2%, 2 or 3% of your time. A total of those in some kind of prayer or meditation, which you can also couple with being in nature and exercise. And it's a handful of hours, four or five hours a week.

Yes, which is- Where are we at? It's around, let's say it's less than 5% of your week. You can make your life a lot better. And then once you're there, you can start trying to be of service to other people, which you can just be of service to other people and it makes yourself feel good. You can just start by doing it because it benefits you. Because when you-

Yeah, self-interest. Again, self-interest. Again, self-interest. But, and then hopefully maybe you can move out of that a little bit and really do it for truly, what's the word? Connected, spiritual. Yeah, yeah. Social, socialist. Yeah, true, true, true charity.

Egalitarian. Yeah. Yeah, community. Altruistic. Yes. Motives. Yes. Motives. Yes. So you can add that once you get yourself balanced.

Like you said, like just take care of yourself, like make yourself a little bit better. Yeah. That's true. And then you can make the world look just a little bit better. You can just a little bit, just put a little spice here and there. It doesn't have to be anything much. Get your cul-de-sac together, have a barbecue. Get your cul-de-sac together, have a barbecue.

So I would just say that I'm grateful for the work that I did and the guidance that I got. And it is a little bit weird being a predominantly comedy actor in Hollywood who talks about God and spirituality a lot. It's a little bit strange. People probably get a little judgy with me. But again, the only thing that i think is worthy of judginess is hypocrisy yes and tell saying it like cheering me yeah and also saying it like you've you've got it nailed down and that you do it all the time right this is a thing to aspire to i struggle i still struggle and you probably will also. Not even probably. You will also. It's not the phone. It's not food. It's not sex. Like I said, now it's the senior

citizen anxiety. It's a whole anxiety. It's like a whack-a-mole, right? The mole has popped up through a new hole called senior citizen anxiety. Now I got to deal with that. And there'll be some other hole that Mr. mole pops out of i agree uh i really enjoyed this and i did doesn't you i did your podcast which is beginning soon we're launching it spring of 2024 when we get around to it great thank you for coming called soul boom right called soul boom i appreciate that but i didn't i was afraid this was going to be repetitive and it wasn't. I knew it wouldn't be. You knew?

Yeah. God bless. I wish I had your confidence. Central creative force. Creation force. Sorry. Central creation force. And if you don't think it's cool, I got there from taking drugs, so it's pretty cool. You make it cool. I got there from

reading books. Great shit man good time thanks rainbows Bye.