Boonta Vista - EPISODE 92: The QAnon Phenomenon (Featuring Travis View)

Episode Date: April 1, 2019

Andrew, Theo and Lucy are joined by Travis View, writer and co-host of the QAnon Anonymous podcast. We talk about the origins of QAnon, the resurgence of a certain Australian conspiracy theory, and take questions from our listeners. • Read Travis' latest piece for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/03/26/mueller-report-is-get-ready-conspiracy-theories/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.82990d63b5c4 • Listen to QAnon Anonymous: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/qanon-anonymous/id1428209307?mt=2 • Follow Travis on Twitter: https://twitter.com/travis_view *** Support our show and get exclusive bonus episodes by subscribing on Patreon: www.patreon.com/BoontaVista *** Merchandise available at: boontavista.com/merchandise *** Twitter: twitter.com/boontavista iTunes: tinyurl.com/y8d5aenm Stitcher: www.stitcher.com/s?fid=144888&refid=stpr Pocket Casts: pca.st/SPZB RSS: tinyurl.com/kq84ddb

Welcome to Bruntavista episode 92. I'm Andrew dialing in via the internet phone. We've got Lucy. Hi Lucy. Hi. How is Hawaii? How are you noisy birds? I'm having some allergies and there's a very annoying bird outside so it's classic, classic Hawaiian spring I suppose. Nice, nice. And how are you, thii? And how are you, Theo? I'm having some allergies and there's a very annoying bird outside so it's classic classic Hawaiian spring I suppose. Nice, nice and how are you Theo? I'm wonderful it's a beautiful rainy morning here a temporary kind of release from the hell world that we live in in Brisbane so that's nice. Stifling stifling heat of Queensland lovely I also have had noisy birds Lucy. There was like just a giant swarm of cockatoos outside my house the other day.

They were loud enough that I just I couldn't hear anything. I was like could you possibly be any louder? They got some cockatoos in Canberra. Oh fuck yeah it's cockatoo season. I'm sick of the shit. But I could also hear like this unsettling whining noise. It was like there were several football-sized bees somewhere near me. I could hear this sort of droning sound happening underneath the panic screeching of all these cockatoos. And then I realized that there was like a drone flying around near them. And I assumed that they that that that they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they could could could they could they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they the the the the the the theeee thou the the thee they could could they could they could they they could they they atoos and then I realized that there was like a drone flying around near them and I assumed that they were panicking about this fucking weird noisy thing flying around so close to them and they

flew off and then I could just hear this drone just hovering above my street. What's it doing? Was it filming you? And I was like... Is it filming you in the nude? Yeah, I was just, I just pulled into the driveway, getting home from work, and I was standing and they're going, I don't like that. It makes me feel uncomfortable? I don't know what it's doing that.

Can you just do that? I guess so there's some kind of conspiracy against me. Hey, on that topic, we have a guest, we have a guest this week. Joining us all the way from, I hope I'm pronouncing this correctly, Amarica, it's Travers View from the Q&on-Anonymous podcast. Hello, Travis. Hello, Andrew. Thank you so much for having me on. You are very very welcome. I've been listening to your show for a while now which is

great stuff and everybody should check it out and I believe that recently we had a bit of a we had a bit of a cross-cultural podcast incident. Hmm. Incident. Do you want to describe what that was Lucy? I don't know. I'm moderator of some kind of debate between horrible things that I didn't want to hear about but I did. Yeah it was us, that was a Q and non-anonymous and trass future and we had a conspiracy off between American and UK conspiracies and we we edged it out we we we put three conspiracies head to head and according to Lucy America is the most conspiratorial place in

the Anglosphere so we're very very proud of that. It's official. Excellent stuff and the trash future guys of course have appeared on this podcast. We've had both Milo and Riley on here and we always recommend the people check those guys out especially if you're trying in any sense to keep up with like what's happening with Brexit from the outside because like I don't, that's I feel like Brexit is the one sort of world affair where my brain has just gone. I don't have the bandwidth for this.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I've read like a few articles about that recently, and even though I follow, you know, the absurdly Byzantine Q&on conspiracy theory, I could track that, but Brexit is a little bit too much for me. So it's a little too complicated. Yeah, there's obviously like a whole host of concerns about, you know, the EU and Europe and Britain itself, and all of the like market-related stuff and all of the social stuff and all of the internal political mechanisms that are being used to drive it and it's really, it's probably really hard to keep up with if you're there in the thick of it all the time.

Because any time that I check in on it like several weeks apart, it just seems like the entire thing has slid another 500 meters down a cliff face and just goes from bad to worse all the time. I think they had a Brexit day recently but um yeah I don't really know what happened with that. Yeah I think that was uh yeah it was actually today I think and there was actually a little bit of a Q presence there. There was people were posting images on social media of pro-Brexit protesters sporting Q signs. So it's gone global baby. Well it's so weird to think of like people outside of America being invested in the

Q stuff, I guess, because it's so fixated on, I guess, American political leadership. But it is, it is all meant to be like a big global cabal, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, yeah, it does sort of, you know, imagines, it does deal with a lot of worldwide, political cerns. They talk about Saudi Arabia a lot. And it's also, they talk about, what, what the, the spygate-the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, is, the, is, the, the, is, the, is, is, the, is, the, is, is, the, is, the, is, is, the, the, is, a lot and it's also they talk about what the the Spygate conspiracy theory which involves UK and in fact even Australian politicians. So yeah so it does affect everyone. The thing about Q-Non is that it's sort of like a big tent conspiracy theory,

is that you can, is that if you're a conspiratorial person, you can, you can find a home there. You've got something to contribute. Yeah, exactly. This is why, you know, this is why there's sort of a subculture of like flat earthers in the Q&N community. Like most Q&O people think the flat earthers are a little out there, but there are Q&O slash flat earthers because just everyone's sort of like it can find a home in Q&O world. It is wild to think of like the kind of internal internal dichotomies and rankings inside conspiracy communities. Like yeah, the people who spend all of their time, you know, talking to each other. the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their theirthers, like theirthers, like theirthers, like theirthers, like their-eaters, like, like, like, like, like their-e-eus-eaters, like, like, like, like their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the the people who spend all of their time you know talking to each other about Satanic baby blood drinking pedophiles who rule the world looking at the other guys

over in the corner and going those do the weird what what is up of those guys? Yeah, there's also that There's also like sort of philosophical battle. In the sense that there's like there's some people who accuse sort of like the people who do a lot of like grifting. They're sort of like purest Q&O people who say that. No, you shouldn't collect money to do Q&N stuff. That's that makes you a patriot, P-A-Y-Treat. And you should only, you should only do Q-A-Ns, or create Q-A-N-On content for volunteer reasons. And you shouldn't be doing it for profit.

So there's sort of like a popul of battles and emerging establishment so yeah it's it's it's it's a pretty complex. All right well I have a challenge for you then which is for for people who are not I guess either extremely online or have maybe heard of Q and Q& Q and on, but don't really understand the general gist. Do you have a kind of capsule explanation of the theory and its adherence for people? Sure, I will do my best. So the Q&O conspiracy theory basically posits that there is sort of an evil worldwide

cabal of people who control basically just everything. They control all media and they control all major politicians and this has been going on. But fortunately, and this would have kept going on, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. So fortunately he is going to help take down this evil cabal that does a number of unmanagely horrifying things such as run a worldwide pedophile trafficking ring and and and you know just control our lives and they cause disease and war and poverty and debt and basically everything bad is the Kabbal's fault.

And the and in the process of taking down this evil Kabul, Trump is working with a group of people in military intelligence called Q-Team and Q-Team is revealing information about this operation to take down the cabal on the highly controversial image board 8chan. Yes, of all the places you would choose to distribute this information. Very odd, since there's a, you know, 8chan, even before the, you know, the recent Christ Church incident, the, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, you know, it was, it was, you know, a bit of a the, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, a, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, a, the, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, the, the, the, the, the, the, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it, it, the, the, even before the you know the recent Christ Church incident the it was it was it was it was it got into a bit of trouble for hosting child pornography which is sort of like an odd place to reveal your message of saving children from this pedophile ring but yeah so in the so Q-team reveals the

information about this this operation what they was called Q-drops which are these cryptic posts which are these cryptic posts which are the the their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It was th. It was th. It was th. It was the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. It was the the the the the the the the the their. It was was was was was was was was was was was was the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tr. tr. try. try. try. try. try. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. the. the. the. the. the. the. the information about this operation, what it was called Q-drops, which are these cryptic posts, which are sometimes have Socratic questions, or they have these very cryptic sort of phrases that don't really make sense. But the idea is that if you were to decode these information, you can sort of discover what's really going on beneath the surface in US and global affairs. So that's the gist. I am, I think I just realized at that exact moment that the way that the cryptic posts work, it's basically just like, it's just astrology for conspiracy theorists, you know, that you

read a thing in the paper once a week that says, oh, you're going to meet a strange person and you go, oh, that was the guy I ran into in the parking lot. Yes. It's just, it's this thing, like these cryptic things that are completely wide open to any form of interpretation and you can project whatever you like onto these things. Yes, I mean, yeah, it's certainly, I mean, yeah, it's basically just tea leave reading in that they make these, you know, sometimes or sometimes, it's basically cold reading techniques where someone will say something that sounds like it sort of hints it inside knowledge,

but it's really meaningless. For example, a common phrase that Q used to say was, watch the water. What does that mean? Well, it means nothing, but it also means that, you know, the earth is 70% water and we all need water to live so there's eventually going to be an incident in which Trump encounters water or something and then and so for example when Trump was sort of drinking a what was it it was it was it was a bottle of water then like you know the whole

that everyone in the Q on a community be like oh wow Q said watch the water and now look here Trump is drinking water just as Q predicted. Well, especially like with, I think, I'm thinking of the clip that you're talking about, where Trump drinks water incredibly strangely, he like takes the lid off, and then he grasps the bottle closely with two hands like a small child and lifts it

all the way up for a single swig. And yeah, I've seen the kind of stuff that you're talking about where the level of import that people put on these like microscopic details, you know, like some of it, I imagine it would be people looking at that sort of stuff and saying, oh, he's very deliberately doing that in a kind of strange way to draw our th s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s.... th. thi thi. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And, and yeah. And, and yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, and yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah. And, yeah, yeah, I. And, yeah, I. And, I, I, I' thi. Yeah, I' thi. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I'a. And, I'a. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I'a. Yeah, I' th the, I imagine it would be people looking at that sort of stuff and saying, oh, he's very deliberately doing that in a kind of strange way to draw our attention. He's drawing our attention to the water because Q said to watch the water. And I've seen some of the other stuff you guys have talked about of like, oh, in this photo, his tie was like slightly off at a, you know, a five-degree angle from where it would normally sit straight down on his shirt. And that means X, Y, and Z.

And like the level of just projecting meaning onto meaning with symbols is quite staggering. It is. You know, it's funny because, is that the people in the Q&O community, they notice how weird Trump is too. They notice that he just behaves very strangely whenever he's on camera, even though he's like, he's like lived his last, you know, 30 years of his life in the public eye. But he's just sort of like a very, he just behaves oddly.

But while most people say it's like, well, he's just sort of an inhuman dude who is, you know, just odd. The Q&I community thinks that there's actually some sort of hidden meeting behind this strangeness. Like he wouldn't be acting this strangely unless it had some particular, specific, important meaning. It's just madness. So, you know, you guys, you and your fellow co-hosts run a weekly show which kind of, I guess, tracks the movement and, you know, any sort of significant moments where it's bled over

into like mainstream culture or the news or politicians or anything like that. But when, like, how long ago would you say you first became aware of the cute stuff or got interested in it? I first actually became aware of it all the way back in December 2017. And I sort of like, it was actually, my mom actually message me about it. She says, like, well, have you seen this thing? It's like, this, I, this, back then it was called the storm. In the sort of, and there's like, and I had briefly heard of it because I was, I was, oh, the line.

I thought it was just sort of a weird internet thing. And fortunately, fortunately, she didn't get to it realized it was bunk and then sort of got over it. But I didn't really... It's good because you don't want to be having those conversations at a Sunday or anything. Yes, yes, that's right. She eventually realized that it was all nonsense. Fortunately, but not not everyone had that experience who encountered it. But I, so I followed it close, I thought it was sort of like a weird sort of goofy internet thing and there like there is a lot th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. to to to to thi. to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be, to be, to be, to be, thi. thi. thi. thi. internet thing that was in there, like there is a lot of these. But I didn't like really start paying close attention to it until July of 2018. And in that month I noticed that Charlie Kirk, I don't know, are familiar with Charlie Kirk

Turning Point USA? Yes, yes. The small-toothed big gummed diaper man. Yes. That's him. I noticed that he sent out a tweet that boasted allegedly of Trump's incredible record of human trafficking arrests. There is like he had threw up some statistics in a tweet alleging that in the years Trump had been in office human trafficking were skyrocketing and he attributed these these statistics to the Department of Justice and I knew

this was bullshit and when I went and I fact checked them I found the true origin of the figures that he was publishing I found out that the number is actually originated with the Qadon community who had created the figures that he was publishing. I found out that the number is actually originated with the Q&on community who had created the spreadsheet to track what they basically were thought was the number of human human trafficking arrests in the US. So I noticed that you know Charlie Kirk who is really about almost about his mainstream as sort of a conservative as it gets in the US. You know, Charlie Kirk has met with President Trump in the Oval Office.

He appears in Fox News occasionally. So this is, Charlie Kirk is not a fringe figure, but he's pushing this hyper-fringe, false, insane Qanon sort of the theories and statistics. So I fact check that. And that's sort of the moment, that's sort of the moment, that's sort of the, the, the, the moment, the moment, I I, th, I, th, I, th, I, th, th, I, th, th, the moment, I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thrue, thr-I that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that, that's, that, that's, that's that's that's that's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thri. that's thri. that's that's thri. that's thri. to, Charlie, that's that's toe. that's toe. toe. toe. to, to, and statistics. So I fact check that. And that's sort of the moment I realized that, oh, that Q&N isn't something that's going to stay in the dark recesses of the internet. It's sort of spilling out into mainstream sort of political media and discourse. And so that's really when I started tracking it more more closely was when I realized that it was going to it was getting a little bit out of control it would not you not stay just sort of like a thing

for weird H-chan 4-chan people. Yeah and it's it's it's almost astonishing how fertile the ground was and is for these sorts of theories that kind of just play exactly to the weaknesses of guileless dip-shits like Charlie Kirk and the entire array of people on like Fox News and that sort of thing. So like I said, it's sort of, it's very easy to see how this could just blow up because it's ticking all of the right boxes, right? Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th just, th just, th, th, th, th, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of just, kind of just, kind of just, kind of just, kind of just, kind of just, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, thi. kind of, kind of, thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, kind of just, thi, kind of, to see how this could just blow up because it's ticking all of the right boxes, right? Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, it has, you know, I mean, it has, I mean, there's always been a sort of a market for, in the, in sort of political media, for, explain to people why, uh, why Donald Trump is a genius and everything he's doing

incredible and why he's doing great work But the evil liberal MSM isn't giving him the proper credit, you know I mean Charlie I would know another one sort of like sort of that predates Q&O and on is like Bill Mitchell who you know built a quite an online audience by Basically always sort of explaining why Donald Trump is doing an incredible work but the evil libs won't give him credit for it. But this sort of like this but this Yaku-on does basically does the same thing but it just takes it to a whole new level where Donald Trump isn't just doing a good job he's this super genius

who's operating on level few people can possibly understand and he's not just doing good work he's saving the world and saving countless unseen children from this evil cabal. Well yeah it almost like for some of the people it almost seems to be like this this Christ-like figure in terms of what you're saying like saving the world you know yeah you know I think that I think that I think're saying, like saving the world, you know? Yeah, you know, I think that, I think that, I think that's part of the, that's part of the, the consequence of the, the shock of the result of the 2016 election, where a lot of people could save that as well, you know, it was, you know, people who supported Hillary Clinton didn't expect that she would lose, and that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, I that's, I that's, I.. Iii. I Ii, Ii, I I that's, I I I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I....... I. I. I's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi.a. thi.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's, I think, I'm, I'm, I'm, that as well, you know, it was, you know, people who supported Hillary Clinton didn't expect that she would lose and that's true, but I think that a lot of supporters were also shocked that he won. It was almost miraculous,

that that against all odds, against all the Republican establishment, against the DNC, against the mainstream media, the hate him. Against all odds he managed to win. It felt like there had to be some sort of unseen hand sort of helping him. And so, yeah, some people attribute that in some cases, literally to divine intervention or, or, I guess, in the QANon, sort of the assistance of, um, get a partnership with military intelligence. I do have a question about the, again, the sort of origins of this, which is, to what extent is the whole Q&ON theory an offshoot or like an outgrowth of Pizzagate? Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, it's obviously, I mean, obviously, Pistigate is the is the predecessor of Q&O in many, many ways. Now, Pizigate famously, it actually, it's got sparked from an anonymous source on Fordshan named FBI Anon, who alleged that Hillary Clinton was basically guilty of horrendous

crimes including child abuse, and that she was, she guilty of horrendous crimes, including child abuse, and that she was, she and many other people in the government were on the verge of being sent to jail, basically. And that obviously directly, that directly echoes Q&O and then there's an also thing about Pizza Gate is that they believe that by searching through the leaked pedestrian emails, they were able to find secret codes that hinted at child abuse. And this also is sort of reflected in Q&D, that they think that they could find all of the evil elite secret codes in just sort of everything and that

allows them to sort of figure out what's really going on. The classic that we all know and love ordering a cheese pizza. Yes yes yes there's yes that yeah all yeah that there are all other codes like a hot dogs and walnut sauce was another one and so it was it really is it really was it almost feels like Pizza Gate was just sort of like a dry run for Q&on. I often say it's like it almost looks like someone looked at Pizza Gate and noticed what worked and just duplicated that like you do you run a marketing campaign based upon a previous one that worked really well. Yeah. So another factor of this that's very interesting to me is that like when we've talked before on this

show about conspiracy theories, one of the things that I have always said about this is that I think that I think that a lot of the people who traditionally have fit the mold of people who are very into conspiracy theories have been like young men and these days particularly very online young men. You know, the types of people who would smoke a lot of weed and listen to too much of Joe Rogan show and like watch a Bill Hicks special for the first time at 20 and be like, oh, I get the world now. And I've always sort of thought of of the, like that sort of demographic as fitting neatly into being in a time and place in, in their lives where like, people, like, people, like, people, who, who, people, who, who, who would, who, who, people, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, to to to people, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, to, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the people, the people, the people, the people, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to people, to, to, to to, to the the the the the the the the the people, to, to, to, to, to, being in a time and place in their lives where like people want to feel like they sort of know more than everybody else. They want to feel like they kind of have this bit of knowledge that you're, that the Normies and the mainstream don't really have. I think that's probably what, you know,

drove a lot of like the 9-11 conspiracy theorism when I was younger. But with Q&on, such a huge part of the audience is like boomer-aged people. It's like senior citizens. You can look at the photos from the rallies and it's all these, you know, gray-haired grandmas out there with their, when, where we go one we go all t-shirts and their big Q signs and everything at Trump rallies and, and that's, that's the part of it that I think is like really surprising to a lot of people is that this, this is kind of the perfect intersection of, I guess, um, this sort of conspiracy theory and like old people who post on Facebook way too

much? I mean yeah I mean the problem of of older people who maybe you know came on to the internet late in life being persuaded by nonsense on the internet I've obviously sort of predates Q&on, but I think it really explains why it's so popular in that particular demographic. They just, there's just people who just don't understand, you know, how technology works. And sometimes they, you know, even the sort of the boomers that go on to 8chan, they don't, they can't even properly read 8chan threads. So they come up with these bizarre interpretations of the even more bizarre

than sort of like, I guess, the more conventional Q-on-on believers. So yeah, I mean, I suspect it really is sort of a consequence of the fact that that particular generation isn't quite as social media savvy, not quite as tech savvy as a lot of the younger people. Well, there's also that whole kind of factor as well of like, I think a lot of younger people have that really base level ability to like look at an image that has been produced that has like you know the 15 different fonts in crazy sizes and the lowest res images you've ever seen and it's clearly all been constructed in paint or whatever and just a big

part of your brain immediately disqualifies that as oh I know exactly where this came from right I know exactly what kind of information this is being sourced from, and my brain chooses to instantly discard this. Whereas, yeah, you can see from a lot of boomers and the way they interact with people on like Facebook and Twitter and stuff like that, that they clearly have like folders of these types of things saved to their computer with the specific purpose of replying to people with this this in this in th th th th th th th th this in th th th th th th th th th th thi.. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. thi. And thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. th. th. thi. thi. their thi. their thi. thi. thi. thi. theeeei. thei thei their their their teei their teeei their their theeeeeeateate. types of things saved to their computer with the specific purpose of replying to people with this in a post to prove a point as opposed to to give someone a reason to instantly disregard what they're saying.

Yeah, yeah, I know I think that I almost would compare it to you know the way people sort of process media and I don't, well, watching a television show or something, you sort of like, your brain automatically knows when to sort of pay close attention to the actual program and the sort of like filter out the advertisements, sort of like, play those down. I think that, you know, if you're sort of raised on the internet, you know how to sort of like, to properly process, you know, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they., they., sort, they.s, sort, they.s, sort, sort, to, sort, sort, sort, to, sort, sort, sort, to, sort, sort, to, sort, to, to, to, process you know higher quality information while sort of discounting sort of like bonker stuff you know is from sort of the the the dregs of the internet but if you you know if you came to the internet late in life you don't quite have that skill so you're it's just all content whether it comes from a reputable source or from

HAN and so you process it all the same. Yeah I feel like the older version that th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi the the the the the the thi thi the the tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho th. th. th. th th the th th th th th th. th th. I th th. I th th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thooooooo. to thoo. tho. tho. the. from HAN. And so you process it all the same. Well, yeah, I feel like the older version of that was like, you know, I think younger people, you can look at, like for, you know, website usability testing and like tracking the efficacy of advertising and stuff like that. You can look at eye tracking the efficacy of advertising and stuff like that, you can look at eye tracking stuff for people and see how people's eyes just go around banner ads. Like you can see which parts of the page people actually look at and the majority of people their brains have gone, oh something that is in this shape and this style placed in a website

clearly has no value to my brain and they don't even glance at it, you know. Whereas like the old thing with people always used to be like, you know, oh, I need you to come and get all these viruses off my computer because I clicked the big banner ad that says you have one new email. Like that was always this thing in an older time of the internet was people's parents and grandparents like, you know, absolutely jacking up their computer by clicking on every banner ad that was ever shown to them because, as you said, not really having that

ability to kind of discern that type of information. But it's certainly turned out very interesting in that way. That ability to kind of discern That type of information But but it's certainly Turned out very interesting in that way like big big armies of Older people out there, you know, posting like they're doing special ops for the president. Yes. It's a very strange time. Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's that's another part of the appeal is that is that, you know, is that, you know, is that? You know, they feel like they are are are are are th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the. the the the the the the. the the. the. th. th. th. Yeah, I mean, that's another part of the appeal is that, you know, is that, you know, they feel like they are doing something really super significant as a consequence of posting these memes, right? They think that, you know, they are part of this grand digital army by posting these boomer- level memes. I guess like a question that's not necessarily very easy to answer is what is it about

this particular thing that you think has has caused it to be so appealing to people or has caused it to be kind of picked up so widely and spread so fast? Right. Well, there's really several things. I mean, it's like I said, there were sort of like insider anons on Fort Chan, H-Han before where people had a basestly claim to be government insiders dispensing secret information. I think that what really makes Q-A-N-on super successful is the is the act of sort of like decoding and sort of questions where so it's not just it's not just an insider giving you information you feel whenever the participants of Q&M

they feel like they're actually going out and doing their own research and picking apart what these these mean. So it's very gamified. It's fun, basically. It's not a passive activity. It engages them and it makes them invested. You know, like you are like, you know, like the stupid, you know, thing about like, I don't know, game apps, you know, they make you invested by, you know, giving you a challenge and then the then you get I don't know what so much gold or points or whatever whatever this in the particular game and well you have to keep coming back it even makes me think of those old like a much more 2000s thing but they used to do like marketing

campaigns yeah the ARGs yeah, the alternate reality stuff where yeah they would feed you things that were like, oh you have to you have to go to this place and look around for something and it would give you a key to you know like something to decode like you're saying. You need to actually go to these real physical locations and decode this thing and at the end of it you get to like watch a fucking movie tr-a............. And the movie. And the the the the the the th. th. And th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. the the th. the the the th. the the the thi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the the the to to to to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah........................................................................................................... the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thing and at the end of it you get to like watch a fucking movie trailer or get a five dollar discount on something. It's almost like the like the movie like the David Fincher version of it though where you start off with this ARG and then it just slowly starts leaking into reality and you kind of go oh no I've I've had enough of this I don't want someone sitting in a

courtroom after they've just killed a New York crime boss with the with the fucking Q logo on their hand right like this is I think too much like that's the part of the movie where it kind of ticks over and goes like everything's just starting to get a little bit too weird for our tastes it is I mean it is very real it is hurting people and like you mentioned in the case of the Anthony Colmello, who has been accused of killing the reputed head of the Gambino crime family, Q&O. CUNN looks like it has a body count now. And, you know, that's, I think we sort of crossed into very serious territory.

But the people running Q&N who's ever really behind Q, they're really sociopaths and they don't care. Yeah, because like there's, there is the literal, physical body count that we're talking about of actual people being murdered. And there's also like the, the huge social toll that this seems to be taking on a lot of people because the thing that you know I've seen you guys talk about and also other friends like Krang T. Nelson, you know, he gets into, he gets into like closed Facebook groups about this sort of stuff and looks at the posts of all these people that are saying like, oh, spending Christmas alone because my family doesn't want to talk to me anymore because, you know, all I do is come to family

gatherings and insist that everybody listened to me talk about like the pedophile ring running the country. And, and that, you know, now they say that I, they don't want me to to to to to to to to to to to to to the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they..... And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. they. they. they. their, their, they. thethat, you know, now they say that they don't want me to talk to the kids about this stuff anymore. And yeah, you can see like this actual toll of people who are starting to be, you know, like, I don't think it's too hyperbolic to say, just losing grip on reality to an extent that it is severely affecting people's real relationships. Yes, I mean this for people who cover Q&O on, it's receiving letters from or receiving emails or messages from people who say, oh my, my, sometimes like my son or my, my mom or someone in my family has just become lost to Q&O and like, what do I do?

And, you know and and you know this is not an easy thing to solve but yeah there is a real human cost that's a little bit more hidden in the terms of frayed, frayed, frayed personal relationships. You know it's I mean Q&O on it's it's stealing people's relationships. It's a it's hurting people's relationships. It's a it's a bad thing. Yeah, and I think one of the real problems like you're saying with this sort of stuff is that so much of the narrative behind these different conspiracy theories is of course the idea that

you are one of the clever few who knows and understands this thing and it's the whole purpose of the sinister bodies behind it to keep it hidden and to stop people from talking about it and to have people ridiculed and all that sort of stuff. So like, yeah. The problem in all of these situations is that other people saying to you, this is bad and you should probably stop completely fits into the narrative of the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theauoryoryoryoryoryoryoryory theauauauauaua.a.a. things things things things things things. things. things. things. things. things. things. things. things. things. things., things., things.eaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaea.ea.ea.ea.a.a.ea.a.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. theauuuuuuu probably stop, completely fits into the narrative of the theory itself. Oh yeah, yeah, and of course, I mean the whole thing is that it it fills an emotional need. It provides people with a sense of profound significance that they are just aren't getting or can't get through let's's say, religion or through career

or through family relationships or romantic relationships or hobbies or pursuits. You know, the traditional ways people, you know, find meaning in their life aren't working for these people for whatever reason. And so yeah, they turn to this and it gives them this this kind of significance that they absolutely need like their next breath. And this is why is virtually impossible to shake them from it. It's it really is, you know, to accept that this is that that's all bullshit. The whole Qodon narrative is bullshit for some of them, I really, I really think is, it's just unthinkable, you know, it's just, it's just, it's just too hard.

And you know, that that obviously sort of leads us to that question of where if ever does this end? You know, does do the people doing the Q-drops just get bored and stop at some point? Or do they post a long thing saying we have just been stringing you people along forever and what would the outcome of that be? That's a good question. Obviously it would probably, if like, if they ever like, you know, came clean to their best of their ability, they said, this is us, this is what we did, and we're sorry, and they provided all the, let's say records or documentation, they provided the, um, the trip code of Q, they told the history, they explained it all with evidence. That would probably dissuade some, you know, Q&O followers from giving it up. But for the rest, they are dug in too deep. You know, they are, you know, they need, they will continue to believe. And the reason I know that's true is that sometimes Q&O followers they will actually reject what Q says to believe something that they want to believe. Like there's a whole element of in Q&ON of JFK Jr. lives. There's a segment of Q&O fowlowers who believe that JFK Jr. did not actually die in a

1999 plane crash in the Atlantic Ocean. But in fact, this is still alive to this day to believe that that that, that's something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something that's that's that's that's that's that's something something something something that's that's that's that's something something something something something that's that's that's that's something something something something that's that's something something that's that's something something that's that's something something that's something something something that's that's that's something that's something that's something that's something something that's that's something something something that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's something something something did not actually die in a 1999 plane crash in the Atlantic Ocean, but in fact this is still alive to this day and he's helping Donald Trump take down the deep state. And Q was asked this directly whether or not this was true. When Q said no, JFK Jr. is not alive. Some Q&O followers just rejected this. They said, hmm, this is just disinformation, and I'm going to continue believing that actually JFK Jr. is alive.

It kind of recalls like a lot of the, a lot of ways that people act in other conspiracy theories and, you know, I guess, anti-science or pseudoscience sort of situations with, like, you know,that flat-earth documentary where they came out where they kind of designed the the whole experiment around, well we'll get a very accurate gyroscope right? And if the earth is round and it's spinning it'll do this, if it's not then it'll do that and they you know film the whole thing and to exactly the amount that you would expect if the world was round and spinning at the speed that it is and they just go, huh? Oh well, on to the next thing. That's weird.

That's weird. Well, I think they even say on some of the stuff that they're just like, oh well, we won't be putting that out. I mean, yeah, my, here's, obviously I have th, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have. I mean I mean yeah my here's obviously I have no idea how this is gonna end I'm pretty sure it's gonna end in tragedy but but I'm very very confident that that we will have Q&on followers for for at least a generation I mean you know this is something that's probably I, I kept thinking, whenever I was following it earlier and they always invested some big date that was coming up,

like, you know, it was like, oh well, once this fails to come to pass, and surely they'll abandon Q&O and it just never happened. Yeah, I think the December kind of date of a whole bunch of political enemies getting locked up in Guantamamo, like, like, like, like, like, like, that I was. December 5th. Exactly, yeah. And that was that was one of the big ones as someone like that's not a actual follower of this kind of like even that was in my feed and in my kind of information I'm going to go, oh, okay, well, you know, it's one of those very, very weird, like hard dates they set themselves up that that that that that that that th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that, that, that, that, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th... And, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thee. theat theat to. t t together, together, together, thea. thea. their, their, their, their, their, themselves, which is odd to see them set themselves up for failure in this fashion. And then like you said, it just sort of blows by and they all just go, okay, well, that didn't work out. What about the next one? Well, in a lot of cases, in a lot of cases, the response to it is simply to say, yes, the date passed, all those people were arrested, and anyone that you see thue tho tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thri, thri, thi, thi, thii, thiii, thiii, thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th say, yes, the date passed, all those people were arrested, and anyone that you

see in public, any of these people that you see in public is simply a body double that is going around living their life so as not to cause alarm. That's right. That's the extent of, like, disengagement from reality that people are willing to go to, to just keep it rolling. Yeah, I mean, it's getting so hard, it's to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be their and their and their and their, and thi. And thi. And thi. thi. thiolk, their, their, thiolk, thiolk, that's, that's, that's just, that's just, that's just, thiolomeomeomeomeomeomeome, the their, their, their, their, their, their, the the the their, the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. And, thi. Wee. Wea. Wea.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. I mean, it's getting so hard. I mean, they always find a way, but it's getting harder and harder to square with reality. You know, for example, Hillary Clinton

is launching a speaking tour right now, where it was called an evening with, I think it's called an evening with the Clintons, and she's going to be zipping across the country, speaking to large audiences. You know, and she has this plan through May. And the question is, how do you square this with the deep state or with the Q-team arresting Hillary Clinton at any time? It just doesn't make any sense.

And so yeah, some people do say that, oh, no, thatthat's a Hillary that's a body double that they're using and Hillary Clinton is either you know arrested or in Guantanamo Bay or even dead sometimes it's just I mean it's so incredibly anti-reality it's it's really tough to imagine was like to even live in that world. Well I guess in in response to what you were just saying about how long you think this will go on for at least a generation, something that we can see all over the place is the persistence of a lot of conspiracy theories. I mean, you know, there's still many, many people who, you know, are still going strong with 9-11. There are plenty of things that just, where the conspiracy theories themselves just don't seem to die. And... Yeah, I mean, look at the moon landing where, you know, we've got tools now that are available to you for less than a thousand dollars in which you can bounce some light off of, you know, mirrors that are placed on the moon by people that that th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho-n. thi tho-n' tho-a' tho-a' thi-a' thi-a' thi-a' thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi-a, thi-a-a-n. thi-n. thi-n. thi-n. thuu. thuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. thooooooooooooooooooooooo. thu. less than a thousand dollars in which you can bounce some light off of, you know,

mirrors that are placed on the moon by people that landed on the moon and come back and, you know, do all this sort of stuff and these things still persist, right? Like, literally, what, two generations on? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's post-truth, you know. I mean, a lot of it doesn't have anything to do. It's like they believe that these claim, these truth claims aren't sort of a, sort of a claim about empirical reality. It's sort of like a power move, you know, where they insist upon the reality they prefer and they dare you to stop you. They dare you to stop them, basically. Well, there is an Australian conspiracy theory,

which has been going on for some time, which has had a resurgence in our media in the last week or so, as a result of the Christchurch massacre. So that is, of course, the Port Arthur massacre truthers. So the so the Port Arthur massacre was the event in Port Arthur in Tasmania in in in 1996 that prompted the whole like seizure and buyback of guns in Australia and changing the law so that people could not own semi-automatic firearms or any of that sort of stuff. It prompted

a massive gun buyback and everything. And that was a man named Martin Bryant who killed 35 people and wounded 23 others in a shooting in Tasmania. And obviously nothing of that scale committed by an individual had ever happened sort of before or since in Australia. And yeah, the reaction was that the conservative Prime Minister at the time said, okay, we just don't need those kinds of guns floating around We're gonna change the laws and You know I think he he did cop a lot of pushback from His own very conservative constituents over this stuff, but he went ahead with it

They they bought back thousands and thousands of guns and burned and melted them all down and crushed him and everything so that is th-it is one of the things. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the, the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean thean thean thean thean thean thean thean thean thean. their their theands and thousands of guns and burned and melted them all down and crushed them and everything. So that is one of the things that is often referred to by Americans when saying, why can't we change the gun laws here every time there is another horrific massacre in the US. So in the wake of the massacre in Christchurch, I did unfortunately immediately see a whole lot of stuff on websites like Twitter, of people saying, oh it's a false flag designed to, yeah, people immediately saying it's a false flag, it's been deliberately done because in the wake of that massacre within the week, But, yeah, people immediately saying it's a false flag, it's been deliberately done, because

in the wake of that massacre within the week, the Prime Minister Jacinta Ardern had announced that they were going to change the laws and that semi-automatic guns would become illegal and that they would seize and buy back all of those. And so obviously a bunch of people have then said, oh see it's just like Port Arthur where the government has engineered a thing in order to, you know, prompt the grounds for this to happen. So in the wake of this happening, Al Jazeera has released the results of a three year long undercover investigation into how the NRA, you know, funds, gun ride activists and all that sort of stuff.

Very interestingly to us, they had two senior members of a fringe conservative party, which is Pauline Hansen's One Nation Party, which are like far right, anti-immigration, basically, very much of like, I guess the most kind of politically accessible white nationalist party in Australia, I think is probably a realistic way of describing them. They, they were featured in this documentary as Pauline Hansen, the leader of the party, her chief of staff, James Ashby, and Steve Dixon, who was the leader of the Queensland branch of the One Nation Party, had been interacting with an undercover Al Jazeera journalist. This guy had been undercover for three years, had set up a fake gun rights lobby group in Australia,

and had then organized meetings between these representatives from Australia and the NRA. They've then gone on a trip over to the US, had meetings with the NRA, have gone to, you know, like gun fares, and they went to Coke Industries and talked to them about getting money. At all of these meetings they're saying, if you could give us 10 or 20 or 30 million dollars, we can change the laws in Australia so that guns can be sold again. Their whole thing is just saying, we need to scare the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the shit the their their their their their their their their, their, their, to, to, to, to, to, to, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their their that guns can be sold again. Their whole thing is just saying, we need to scare the shit out of people about immigrants and brown people coming into their homes and murdering them. We need to push all, you know, like, they had basically the NRA people saying,

well these are all the areas that you need to focus on hunters' rights and fishes' rights, never gun rights. You need to focus on. You need to focus on hunters rights and fishes rights, you need to focus on women and mothers being able to defend themselves, you need to take back these stories about you know women having home invasions done on them, all the usual stuff that you would expect about the NRA trying to try to teach them how to scare people into allowing the sale of guns again. And most importantly as well, the NRA was advising them on how you are supposed to publicly deal with backlash when another mass shooting has occurred. Yeah, so these are like these hidden camera meetings with NRA reps who are saying,

oh, as soon as there's a mass shooting, you get out there, you know, people directed at you and you say, how dare you stand on the graves of those people and politicize this? And the guys from One Nation are going, oh, that's good. I love that. And it's like all the most on the nose being caught red-handed shit in the world. But as part of all of this footage in the midst of all of it is a dinner between these three politicians Pauline Hanson, Steve Dixon and James Ashby in which somebody raises Port Arthur and the leader of this political party in Australia says, oh yeah, there's a lot of questions there. There's a lot of questions about Port Arthur and the leader of this political party in Australia says, oh yeah, there's a lot of questions there. There's a lot of questions about Port Arthur.

Talking about how they were, they were precision shots that this guy fired, because there's this, you know, the persistent false flag conspiracy theory is that this was a government, you know, a government organized thing in which this guy who clearly had had some sort of training was going around, you know, like head-shodding and double-tapping people, which very much didn't happen. Or in a lot of cases that there were multiple shooters, or that the person who did it wasn't the person who wound up on trial or that kind of thing. And yeah, so she's she's th. She's th. She's th. She's th. So she's th. So she's th. So she's th. So she's th. So she's th. So she's th. So she's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the. the. the. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. who wound up on trial or that kind of thing. And yeah, so she's describing how she read a book about it. She read a book about it and there's a lot of questions there. And then completely unprompted, her chief.

This was the quote from this that absolutely killed me, right? Pauline Hanson says on this hidden footage, quote, an MP said that it would actually tak a thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. So, th. So, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the the th, the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, theeeei, thei, thei. theiiii. thei. thei. thei. thei. So, thei, thee,ote an MP said that it would actually take a massacre in Tasmania to change the gun laws in Australia Hanson told the Al Jazeera reporter haven't you heard that have a look at it it was set on the floor of Parliament. I've read a lot and I've read the book on it poor Arthur a lot of questions there and then completely unprompted her chief of staff leans over and says that whole September 11 thing th th th th th th too. th th too. th th th th th th th th th th, I? I? I, I, I. I. I, I. I. I, I, I, I th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th. I've th. I've to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the ta. the thauu thea. the the to to to to to the. to completely unprompted, her chief of staff leans over and says, that whole September 11th thing, too. It's not like, just toss that one in. Just completely unrelated to a gun rights conversation. It's just, you know, a lot of questions. You know, yeah, I mean, a lot of, we look at the research on conspiracy theory belief, you see that someone who is willing to believe one baseless conspiracy theory is really more

likely to believe them all, because it's the same mechanism that sort of drives them to distrust sort of authority and sort of distrust what they consider to be the mainstream narrative? Well, um, like we haven't really talked about this on the show yet because it's all only happened very recently, but you know, I think that this will not hurt one nation electorally at all. Because their party and its core base of voters are essentially, you know, xenophobic, nationalistic. It's very much like the sort the sort of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, thi-tr, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, tr, tr, tr, tr, tr, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, trust, trust, trust, trust, trust, trust, the, the, like, thi, you know, xenophobic, nationalistic. It's very much like the sort of lightweight version of Trumpism. It's all foreign stuff is bad, nationalist stuff is good. So for them, this fits perfectly into the narrative of, you know, an evil, Muslim-owned corporate interest from another country, trying to interfere

in our politics and frame and stitch up and selectively edit these politicians to make them look bad. You know, they've kept insisting in the fallout from this that, you know, oh, it's been edited to look this way. It's, it's, um, Pauline Hansen's now claimed that her voice was dubbed, in the fallout from this that you know, oh it's been edited to look this way it's it's Pauline Hansen's now claimed that her voice was dubbed in this thing which is very good. Did you get vague for that Lucy? I didn't no. Oh next up. So she has since fronted the media about this and they've claimed that you know oh sure we said some bad stuff but we were, you know, we were we were stitched up, we were like tricked, bamboozled. They asked, she was asked at a press conference. So what is the book that you read this in that all that raised all these

questions about Port Arthur and her answer was, it was a blue book? It wasn't very thick. Well? That was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, the that was, the that was, the that was, the answer that was, the answer that was, the answer that was, the answer the answer the answer the theatched the answer the the the answer thi. thiated thiated thiated thiated thiated thiated their thiated thiated thiated thichededed thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thiched thi. We thi. We thi. We were thi. We were that that that that that that that that that's thi. We were thi. We were thi. We were thi. We were thi. We were thi-sitit-sititit-upi-sitit-upi-upi-upi-sitched. Wea. We were thiated th. It wasn't very thick. Well, that was the answer in the end. I think she's gone into a bit more detail and basically revealed that somebody just posted it to her and it was a self-published book. Of course it was. Basically someone has just mailed her like their personal manifesto that they made on a photocopier at Office Works. She should just lean into it though, you're right, like her supporters would very much be behind this don't trust the government narrative. She should just be like, yeah, I'm 100% of Port Arthur Truita and they would have no issue

with it. They'd be like, oh, there are a lot of questions. So there's another politician here who is an absolute piece of shit, a hardcore libertarian called David Lanholm. And he weighed in on this and said, oh, well, you know, oh, look, definitely it was Martin Bryant and you know, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories and stuff. But people do. And that's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's why there's why there's why there's why there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's there's there's their, their, their, their, they. th. th. th. th. tho. thooo. thoo. th. thoooo. th. there's there's there's another there's there's there's there's theories and stuff but people do and that's why we should have a government inquiry into this and we should and we should you know just get it all out

there and answer these questions that people have and then it'll go away to which I say no it won't. I think the questions have already been answered is the problem. Well, and this kind of brings me to a general thing about this sort of stuff, Travis, which is my suggestion about this is that like having a government inquiry into this, you know, like over 25 years after this thing has happened and an, thranging it up and saying oh, some people have to say, oh, oh, oh, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, the, the, the, tho, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, th no, the, the, no, no, no, the, no, the, the, the, thin, the thin, no, no, no, the tho the tho tho tho thoooo, thredging it up and saying, oh, some people have some questions about this, so the government is going to publicly answer these questions and then everyone will be satisfied. The thing that everybody trusts the government.

So you've already got the government which all these people think is behind this stuff in the first place. But yeah, to my mind, the only the only the only the only the only the only the only thiiiiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to thi. to to thi. thi. thi. thi. to thi. to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I, thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I, th. I th. I, th. I, th. I th. I, th. I thi. I, thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I's, the. I'm to toe. I'm toe. I'm toeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I'm toeeeee. I'm toe. I'm the. I behind this stuff in the first place. But yeah, to my mind, the only thing that doing that would do is just legitimize to the people who believe in this that there is uncertainty about this and that you are right to have questions and to not believe the very accepted thing, the accepted knowledge about this. Yeah, I mean, we had like multiple investigations into the, you know, the assassination of John F. Kennedy, but it's not like those quelled conspiracy theories about it. You know, official investigations really don't help anything. Yeah, this idea that everybody would then just go, oh, thank you, government. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The issue settled. Yeah, that's in the walk away from it, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the the the the the the the the the the their, uh, uh, the the the the the the the their, uh, the, the the the, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the the the the, the the the the the the the, the the the, the, the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the this idea that everybody would then just go, oh, thank you, government. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The issue's settled, yeah, that's, and the walk away from it, and then no one would like, come up with crazy conspiracy theories in order to bolster their preferred political narrative ever again. That's, that's a fantasy. That's it. We do, we do have some questions for you from our listeners. So we might dip into the old mail bag. So sorry about these. I feel like, I feel like there's a question here from front of the show, Lex, but we've essentially already answered it on the show.

So you're welcome. the show Blake asks, what really happened at Engadine Macke's in 1997? You're not going to know what this is. Yeah, I'm afraid. I'm unqualified to answer this question. Well, Macs is McDonald's. Lucy, would you like to explain? This is helpful.

I don't know how deeply I am across this, apart from that apparently our Prime Minister shit himself at Engadine Mackers. After the sharks lost the grand final against the Broncos, I think it's important to note. Our Prime Minister went to the McDonald's in the suburb of Engadine, which is in, said in like Central Sydney, is that right? Am I, I don't know anything about Sydney, it's an awful place. No idea. I've never heard of it.

True, that was terrible. And then he, I believe, he absolutely pasted his dacs. Is the official story that's being covered up. This is the one, by the way, this is the one conspiracy theory that I actually believe to be 100% true. I believe that we've been in touch with the person who claims to be the original witness to the event, and we're going to try and talk to them on the show. We're going to finally prove a conspiracy theory correct for us. We'll get to the the that we the th the th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy, the conspiracy, the conspiracy, the conspiracy, the conspiracy, the conspiracy, the c. th. We're, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho tho tho tho tho tho tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th th tho, tho, tho, the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the tho the the tho the tho tho tho tho the tho tho the to the bottom of this one. I mean, yeah, that's, I want to know what happened here too, now that I've heard about this conspiracy theory for the very first time. I want to believe.

We have a question here from front of the show, a single payer Sonic Mpreg. Every time I say. How many times are we going to read that name out on the show? Aren't there other people asking questions? There are, there are. Anyway, they say, obviously I'm not naive enough to think I'm immune to cognitive dissonance, but do you ever see any of the Q&on people contend openly with their conviction that liberals are running pido rings that need smashing when many of them seem to have no problem with conservative talk show hosts defending young teen marriage and lower age of consent in southern states, etc, etc. No, I mean, the idea that Democrats and liberals are profoundly evil, this is sort of like a first principle

from which everything else flows. And any sort of like accusation leveled at politicians that they actually like is false, or if it's part of the conspiracy, or it's irrelevant, because liberals are worse. So the answer is, no, this doesn't, this doesn't affect them at all. Well, what about, was there any kind of reaction in that community to, like, say, the recent, those older recordings of Tucker Carlson that surfaced where he was talking about, oh, not being,

not being that bad to have had sex with an underage girl and all that kind of stuff. No, no reaction whatsoever. I mean, it's like if they either ignored it or they said the sort of like the official line was like, oh, he was speaking to a shock jock. He was saying shocky things. You libs are so uptight, which of course, for the Q&L community is of course nonsense. They sort of, they make, they make tons of hay over these sort of like these jokes that comedians made in 2013 implying that a hint set secret pedophilia or whatever.

Whereas like, you know, someone like, you know, Tucker Carlson, whoever makes much more directly horrendous comments and it just doesn't matter to them. So no, no, that inconsistency, you know, doesn't bother him at all. Well, it makes you think of the, like the big campaign to get James Gunn fired from Disney, from the Guardians of the Galaxy movies because he was making Edge Lord jokes in like 2010 or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they went after Patton Oswald recently for obvious jokes that were made in in 2013. So, I mean, it's, it's nonsense.

What have we, what else we got here? We do have some Harold Holt conspiracy theories, so that was a Prime Minister of Australia who, while the active sitting Prime Minister, went for a swim on a beach one day and then disappeared. And so often, you know, he's just drowned and they've. And so, well, he's just drowned and they've never found his body, but the myriad conspiracy theories around him involve, like, I think there's a conspiracy theory

that like he's like defected or been picked up by a Chinese submarine or something. Chinese submarine, mm-hmm, I believe it. That's the general one. I don't know why a Chinese submarine. I feel like I'm not deep enough into it. Friend of the show Frank Fenton says Harold is for sure still alive in China, yes. And other friend of the show Flashman replies, he would be 110 but maybe. He's just super old. He's just super old. He's going to become the oldest man in the world and no one will know about it. Yeah, so I guess the the other question that is kind of relevant to the one that we just asked about that sort of cognitive dissonance, but something that you guys have talked about on the show. We have a friend of the show here, Sotheis Sathius, I've forgotten the right way to say that,

asks, why do you think it is that Q&O slash Pizza Gate people never seem to connect their theories with real life events that resemble their theories like the court case involving Jeffrey Epstein? Hmm. Well, here's the interesting thing is that, as that Q&L actually has referenced Jeffrey Epstein several times right they they they reference his but they but they they always indulge in the sort of like this insane sort of version fantasy version of the Jeffrey Epstein story they think that for example that Epstein Island where where some of this child abuse took place that there is sort of a building that, for example, that Epstein Island, where some of this child abuse took place, that there is sort of a building that has underground layers where children were sacrificed or even eaten or something.

And I mean, Jeffrey Epstein is a horrifying monster, and he did bad things, but there's no evidence that he sacrificed children in the underground layers of his private island. They always, you know, this is a, but this is a common feature of Q&Own, is that they always, they always start off strong and sort of like the things that they're worried about and the concept, but then they always go way, way, way off base in some sort of weird fantasy version. And they don't, they're not really willing to engage the sort of like the real version of the Epstein story, which is bad enough.

Instead they, they sort of, you know, they want to believe this horrendous fantastical version. Well, and that's the thing with the Epstein stuff. I mean, I feel like billionaire private island with underage sex slaves is, that's fine. That's enough. That's completely like villainous and horrendous and one of the worst things anyone could be doing. But they're really gilding the lily on this one. Yeah, you really...

We just want to punch that up. And then he basically gets off with a light sentence because of a sweetheart deal. So you have government corruption and elite pedophiles. It seems like a perfect Q& on story that they should be super invested in. But yeah, like you said, they really gild the lily on it. Well, I think one of the problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems problems they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're really they're really they're really they're really they're really they're really they're really they're really g it? Well I think one of the problems as well with the Epstein thing that doesn't fit the narrative is that obviously you know if people read into this case yeah there was this sweetheart tap on the wrist deal from an incredibly favorable prosecutor who did all of these things like I think deliberately selected one of his oldest victims

so that the penalty that he got wouldn't be as severe, allowed him to completely dictate the terms of his own surrender, allowed him to then get a very light sentence in a, in a, like a minimum security prison from which he was allowed to just leave every day and go to his office and work there as though his life was totally uninterrupted. All of these things, but since then another judge has declared the terms under which all of that happened to essentially be illegal, that the prosecutor acted illegally and that they are going to pull this stuff back into court and unseal the records of that case and expose how this deal actually happened.

And to me, the problem with that is that it completely subverts the idea behind all of this stuff, which is that it's the government who is completely responsible for covering all of this stuff up and enabling it and helping facilitate it, whereas if it's a judge and a federal court that comes in and says, what, what, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, and tho, and tho, and tho, and thi, and tho, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, th, it and helping facilitate it, whereas if it's a judge and a federal court that comes in and says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is really fucked up and something illegal has happened, we're going to unseal these documents and ideally sentence Jeffrey Epstein to life in prison, then that kind of just is a complete departure from the way that this is supposed to be working in line with the people who believe in these conspiracy theories.

I mean, if the means that ends up delivering justice to the victims of Jeffrey Expezine and delivering imprisonment to him is a federal institution, then that just doesn't work for them at all. Yep. Yeah, you know, they also, they really struggle to to the- to believe to believe to believe thi to believe the thii thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee the the the't work for them at all. Yep. Yeah, you know, they also, they really struggle to deal with sort of nuance and the idea that there, you know, maybe there are no heroes in sort of these sorts of these horrible stories. They need to have sort of a very clean division between the good guys and the bad guys. And if Donald Trump has maybe done some things, things, they're, and they need to have sort of a very clean division between the good guys and the bad guys. And if Donald Trump has maybe done some things that is that you know as makes some kind

of a bad guy, they can't handle that ambiguity, that confusion, that sort of that complexity at all. Yeah, that there's actual shades of gray in the world. And I think as well in that so many of the instances that we're talking about, the issue is like the long-term erosions of institutions of like law and order and government and democracy that is enabled a lot of the particularly horrible stuff that these people are concerned about, even the real stuff, like the Epstein business.

I mean, that's a perfect example of looking at and being able to say, if you have enough money, the laws don't apply to you the way that they apply to everybody else, and that is an obvious, massive flaw in our societies at the moment. And like something that's something that our friends over at Chappo Traphouse were talking about on a recent episode was the idea that with a lot of these a lot of these theories you know like you were saying earlier people are people are gamifying this stuff it's a way that they can interact with and try to sort of process

things and give meaning to themselves in their lives, you know? And a lot of that is a kind of outcome of these institutional failings where, you know, people don't have a retirement fund, people don't have health insurance. They're mistreated by the police, they're mistreated by the society that they live in. It doesn't care for them. And one way to kind of process this is to externalize all of this stuff and project it and say, well, some heroic force is going to intervene from the outside

and just magically fix all of this. Yeah. And this leads us to a question. Our final question, and then we'll let you get out of here. Our final question from a friend of the show, Sean Kemp, who says, do you see Democrats falling into a Q&ON-esque conspiracy over the Mueller report? You know, that's funny.

I actually, just this week I published in an article in the Washington Post that sort of warned about the possibility of that happening because I knew I know that people were were really highly invested in the conclusion of the Mueller investigation leading to the conviction or of the or even impeachment of Donald Trump. And based upon Attorney General Barr's brief sort of summary of the report, it doesn't look like it has the kind of fireworks that many people were hoping for. Like we don't, we don't know exactly what all is in it. It's almost certainly more damaging and more damning than what bar lets on. But for people who are hoping that that there is going to be rock

solid sort of evidence of collusion and obstruction of justice and then Mueller will say I've got them dead to rights. It's looking like that's not going to happen. So what is almost certainly going to happen? For the people who are highly invested in that outcome, they will start conspiracy theorizing. They'll say that this was a cover-up, that bar isn't giving the full report whenever it's revealed, or they'll start conspiracizing about Mueller. So, yeah, I mean, the answer is like for a certain segment of liberals, who are really

hoping that Trump would basically get kicked out of office as a consequence of the conclusion of the Mueller investigation, they will almost certainly start to fall into Q&ON-like conspiracy theorizing. Again, I want to draw into Q&O-N-like conspiracy theorizing. Again, I want to draw a false equivalence. Q&O is a beast on its own is far more worrisome than even the sort of the weirdest sort of like Luis Mench style conspiracy theories. But yeah, but that is almost certainly is happening and will continue to happen. Yeah, I think it's, I think broadly speaking, it's just very symptomatic of, like we're saying, people just desperately wanting something to intervene from the outside and just put a stop to this thing.

That they, that they, you know, they think is kind of ruining their life. And like, even in Australian politics, like we had this spate of politicians being disqualified under a clause of the Constitution about having having loyalties to other countries, because it turned out that there were lots of politicians who had like, had one parent born in a different country, which means that you thin, like, um, which means that you thin things thin thinne thin, like, like, like thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin things like thin thin thin things like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi, thi, thii. thi. thi. thii. thiiiii. We thiiiiiii. We thiiiii. We thi. We thi. thi. thed out that there were lots of politicians who had like had one parent born in a different country which means that you wind up like automatically inheriting citizenship from another country so if technically if you want to run run for office you're supposed to like go and relinquish your citizenship to

another country that you have so that you can't be accused of like any dual loyalties or anything like that. In a lot of the cases with a lot of people, I think they just genuinely didn't even know that they had inherited Citizenship or anything like that so it it wound up turning into this like months-long thing of all these different MPs and senators and stuff being disqualified from their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their tuil. tuil. tuil. tuileuileuileuileuileuiluileuile. tuile. tuile. tuile. tueuil. te. te. te. turning into this like months-long thing of all these different MPs and senators and stuff being disqualified from their positions and having to like resign and then run again and all this sort of stuff but the prime minister at the time Tony Abbott who is an especially hated conservative figure was born in London I think and was he was he born in London or parents born in London, I think. And was he born in London or... Parents born in London? Something like that anyway.

And he had supposedly relinquished his dual citizenship, but people just sort of hadn't seen the official documentation of it. And it had just turned into this whole thing for, again, like boomer-aged Australians who were just obsessed with this idea that it was being covered up that he was technically a dual citizen and could be disqualified from office. And all that it leads to is people just focusing all of their energy on this idea of a procedural way that you can have your enemy

disqualified from office and they will just be, you know, picked up and moved off the chessboard and then you don't have to think about it anymore. Nobody's trying to grapple with those questions of why did people vote for this person in the first place? Why was, why was anyone from the center left further over to the left unable to present a candidate or a vision that was more compelling?? th? th? th? th? th? th? th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, and thi, and thi, and thi th. and th. and th. and th. and th. and th. and th. and th. and th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. thi thi thi th center left further over to the left unable to present a candidate or a vision that was more compelling to the electorate than this person? No one wants to grapple with any of that stuff. What they want is for, yeah, for someone from some office, someone from some government to swoop in and say, we check the records and technically, you're not allowed to be the prime minister.

I blame West Wing. I mean, yeah, I mean, that really, I mean, yeah, they hit the nail on the head is that, you know, sometimes there are some results as a consequence of elections that are so inconceivable. They want the sort of a sort of extra democratic, let's say, a system to remove them, whether it's like maybe health reasons or in the case of the, they want like the FBI or the justice system to knock them out, so they don't have to deal with them again, so they'll have to deal with the sort of the, you know, the harder questions of like, why did so many of my fellow countrymen think that this was the dude best qualified for this particular office?

And it's also like, did you learn nothing from Bush winning Florida? Where they just went, no, we won Florida and everyone went, oh, okay, and then everyone just continued on with their lives. But like, and we've spent the next, like, like jerking off to proceduralism. Beautiful proceduralism. We love it so much. Well I think that we'd better wrap it up there but thank you very much for joining us Travis. Yeah thank you thank you so much for having me. You are very, very welcome. I believe that everybody should check out the Q and on Anonymous podcast. We will link to that in the show description, all that sort of stuff. We'll also link to that piece on the Washington Post that you mentioned.

So people can check that out. Is there anything else that you got coming out that you wanted to plug or anything? You know, not, not not the the the the the the the the thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to follow to follow, to follow, to follow, to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow to follow tooom, the tooomea, tooomom, tooom, tooom, tooome. tooomomomea. tooomomomomome. to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to check, to be there anything else that you got coming out the order to plug or anything you know not not the moment yeah just uh... if you if you want to follow me on two twoe and travice underscore view there we have it uh... lucie you've been very quiet how you're sorry i've been sneezing so much just trying not to just be sneezing it at the microphone. Straight deeply upsetting. Oh dear. All right, well, we'll have to get some more thoughts and feelings from you on the bonus episode.

Mm-hmm. That's your time to shine. That's right. Well, thanks to tuning in everybody. As always, speaking of bonus episodes, you can head on over to Patreon Vista, slash Buente Vista if you would like an extra bonus episode every week. And that will do it from us. Thanks again to Travis and we'll see you all next week. Bye bye. Bye. you