Brain Soda Podcast - Episode 47 - Dyeing the Invisible Jet

Episode Date: January 13, 2024

On this week's episode we're talking about the New 52 run of Wonder Woman and the color dyes added to our foods, medicines, and cosmetics!

I think it's ironic that a last murset came out with a song called Ironic, in which all of the examples are not ironic. Brain Soda. It's the brain soda podcast. I, as always, am your host Kyle, joined by my co-hosts and co-horts. Brad? How's it going? And Frog.

What's popping, buddy? Today, we're going to be talking about food guys. But first, gentlemen. Tell us. Yes. If I were to ask you, who are like the three most important pillars of the DC universe who we covered in episode 41,

who would you think them to be? Well, I would say definitely Batman Superman. And then probably Green Lantern, but then you got. Absolutely. Wait, Aquaman, too, Aquaman. You can't forget Aquaman. man and then probably green lantern but then you got absolutely wait Aquaman to Aquaman you can't forget Aquaman Aquaman I think doesn't get the lantern respect that he deserves green lantern is a well-beloved book that actually kind of like help keep DC afloat. Mid is Superman of doubtably right the first hero the second almost, and in some aspects,

the third and Wonder Woman. 1941, this character debuts and ushers in super heroines into the genre in Love itself, right? But beyond that, she becomes the third pillar of the DC universe. And today we're gonna be talking about her new 52 run issues one through 36, some of the tie-in stuff of the new 52 from Brian Esarello and Cliff Chang. Okay. But overall in general, we're gonna be talking today

about wonderful. Okay, so when did these release then? Like when was the first one released? Let's get into the new 52, I guess, to kind of answer your question. In 2011, Brad, D.C., and most of Comps overall was kind of in a sales slump. D.C., like we had talked about before,

had been running with numberings for detective and action comics, like their flagship books for Superman and Batman since the late 30s. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's daunting for some people. Even if things change for months to month constantly, it's daunting to people. Well, what if we turned around one day and said, everything is brand new, wink wink nudge nudge, because we're going to keep that we know sells. This September, everything's new number one's brand new universe boom DC comics. That was the new 52, right? Okay. And for some people, that really was their launching point. I know for me as a reader who had been kind of

speculating and watching over the market for my opportunity to come in This was my opportunity to take. Well, yeah, the star fresh. Right. I think it kind of lends us to why I gravitated towards DC More at this time, but like so wait you're telling me, okay, you're telling me you first started reading DC when you were 21, 22. So I had, I had a love that kind of predated it, but I feel like had Marvel now been the point where they said,

hey everybody, right here, right now, we're changing landscape after this event. It doesn't even have to be a whole reboot. I probably would have leaned into my Marvel stuff more right? Like during the times that I was reading all the new 52 stuff I was dabbling into Spider-Man Hulk, X-Men books and and I was enjoying some of them and you know for periods of time But like my Wonder Woman fandom stayed from issue one to issue 36. And then I'd read a little bit on the Meredith and David Fincher's run. And that was okay, but it wasn't for me.

And I put it down. Now let's go on to say this. You brought up Aquaman. Aquaman is another book that I've read later on and said like, Man, I get the kind of like trope of Aquaman's kind of lame, but like, Obviously reading the book is kind of cool. It's fun. And like looking at that movie. I mean, actually, like if you really think about it, it's not lame because like, you could trope like, the ocean is one of the most daunting things to human like it's almost like

worse than space in a sense, you know, right? Right, yeah, so so like to be able to control the the creatures of the ocean. That's pretty bad And he can breathe underwater too, right? Or he has imperviousness akin to like a Superman or Wonder Woman or something like that because he can survive the depth and pressure The Dave's party. I think he's under his name. In my personal. Yeah, he really is. I believe he is too But I say that to say Wonder Woman is that but maybe even to a greater extent because She can probably hold her own against Superman. It has been displayed to several

different times, right? She's beaten that man. And like in so many different aspects, I feel like Wonder Woman's a character that like we kind of forget at times, even though there's been great stories told for this character by the likes of George Perez, the run we're talking about today, Brian Azarello, currently by Tom King, Gail Simone, another great writer who's had a run on her recently, would have been Greg Ruckus who's had a run on her recently, would have been Greg Ruckus, original run back in the early 2000s, and his return during the rebirth era in the 2010s. I mean, this is a character though, who even beyond all of that,

I feel like kind of gets lost in the Zeitgeist. It's hard to understand why people can have such a hard time doing her well because like, this is your Thor in the DC universe. It's not your only one right? There's a lot of mystical ancient mythology-laced stories that can be told Dr. Fate, even Aquaman Atlantis right? Yeah, but with Wonder Woman you're able to go into like the kind of sword and sorcery Conan the barbarian-esque stories that like maybe you can't even do as well with character like Thor. Like you would you would have to actually properly be

writing Conan stuff or like maybe a Hercules book if you could get like Hercules maps or some you know. Now did now with this new 52 with Wonder Woman did they like, go back to her origin and everything? Or did they just kind of like, that's a really important point. So, Femiscira and Paradise Island, although not terribly prevalent through,

like, large elements of this story, do remain what's kind of brought into question and changed it and foreto told us with Wonder Woman's original origin that started way way back in the early 40s, like we'd said before, she was molded on Paradise Island of Clay, kind of a wish from Hapala Ta, who we've mentioned before in our coverage of our world's at war, a wish from a hapala to to have a child, a daughter on Paradise Island. In Azarello's run, that is changed,

and the story is centered around and Diana herself as a character is a child of Zeus, right? Okay, eventually during this run, she will take up the mantle of the God of War from Aries who like during the Perez run and various different iterations of Wonder Woman is a large antagonist.

Like you can make an argument that Aries is to Wonder Woman as Joker is to Batman, Luthore is to Superman to a certain extent. You can make that argument for Cheetah too, so I don't want to- Well he's the God of War right? If I'm not mistaken- Right, yes, yes. Yeah, so like I may make sense, like Aries, yeah. Right. Now it's Hercules involved at all in DC, because if you're talking grief mythology, like Hercules is one of the biggest ones. So Hercules Hercules is kind of like, I believe a character that's hard to pinpoint as to publication history because most well known is the Marvel publication, Heleys as a character. I do believe that the modern myth Hercules has been used and I believe in Wonder Woman stories is like a betrayer of the Amazon's so like cuz yeah, I think he is I from I'm gonna say well don't call me he shows up and there's a tribe of

Amazon's who come and they're all cool them and he's like all right turn on him I believe that's the exact story that one of the things is that like one of this trials was he had to defeat the Amazon or something like that from that mistaken. That very well may be exactly like what they kind of uses a reference point or whatever the case may be. Now, Frog, let me ask you really quick, what's your kind of take on Wonder Woman up at this point before we're going to get into like what kind of changes and stuff Azarello makes with this 36 year so issues. Well personally I've always loved Wonder Woman as a character, her powers, her abilities, the beauty, the Amazonian woman.

I guess I don't know the backstory like you do, I just kind of know over, I know over through the justice league. Yeah, no and I guess my point is that Wonder Woman gets play with you, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Right, exactly. Like I said, I feel like, right, in A&Me 2, and I feel like for a lot of people to knock on the door of the industry of comic books is a difficult venture overall. Then to kind of take in a character with a long storied history, like a Wonder Woman, is very hard.

Well, wasn't she like one of the first women superhero too? She is one of the first superheroes overall. Exactly. Published in 1931 and Superman predates her by a number of years. Yeah, so like, I mean, that's like, you know, that's a model, you know, that's a role model for women, you know, so like, that's a big thing, you know,

like to have that, like that inclusion and stuff, yeah. So was that during segregation? No, segregation, but us, women's suffrage, was that during that time period? So women, women have the right to vote. Women have the right to vote at this point, but there is very still much systemastic oppression of women in day to day life

and things like, oh yeah, you haven't even really gotten to what we would consider like second wave feminism and really quick. Wonder Woman in particular when we're talking about feminism is one of the most important ones because, and this is a case of you don't always get it right. Classic comic book author, Denny O'Neill. He's writing Wonder Woman during like the 60s, maybe the early 70s, and he makes her like this British mod kind of spy,

nose-con-fume from some ancient Chinese master character, and glorious Steinem of famous feminist, like takes the time to write a article about like how it's up that they're doing this to Wonder Woman and like realistically character narrative it is and was that that happened and he's since apologized and everything else but like this is an important character to feminism not just because she's a feminine character yeah right now what are their characters at this time period are getting intertwined into the stories that we would know. So the funniest thing about this is, and I feel like a large part as to why I suggest it is, as a relevant shame, take this opportunity of the new 52 to go in our 36

or so issue run, which chain doesn't even necessarily draw all of, although when he does it is, ah, chef's kiss, you're right though. As a rello really does kind of say like, everything going out of the DC universe. Like, she's in Justice League for month to month for 36 or so months and nobody says anything about like, isn't that crazy?

That like all the shit going on in your book, Wonder Woman? She's like, yeah, I know, right? Wild. And never comes up. Imagine like a Percy Jackson, but Percy Jackson can like deflect bullets with bracers, rope somebody up with a golden lasso, and make them tell them what the f**k is about to happen

for real with that bomb. You know what I mean? Like, that is a large part what this is. Wonder Woman is meeting up with a cast of characters who are somehow tangentially or directly related to the bloodline of Zeus. They start to get pursued by Hera, the you know, scorned wife who is constantly cheated on by Zeus and Wonder Woman, Hermes, another character in Blenix and Zola of a pregnant woman who is carrying Zeus's child are all kind of being pursued by various different elements of the Greek pantheon like Apollo strife man

This is not really cool. I actually might have to read this. Love Apollo. It is, it is really cool. So this is six volumes collected in Trader Hardcover. I have the card covers because I'm telling you. Really? If you, yeah, I was reading the new 52. I was reading Superman. I was reading Batman, and I checked out Wonder Woman because I knew the universe I was stepping into. I knew that a mythological action-adventure kind of book would hit right for me, and then seeing this angle that, as a relo, who like minds you, is not big on capes. This guy is well known for his run on 100 bullets.

Independent comic book. She doesn't have a cape, does she? She does not, but I'm saying capes as in superheroes. Oh, you mean as like a superhero? A genre of comic books. Yeah. So as a rello is kind of famous for his like not Alan Moore asked like kind of like hatred of super heroes or whatever else, but like one of the works he's well known for is Joker. like kind of like hatred of superheroes or whatever else but like one of the works He's well known for is Joker this kind of like the edge Lord darker than dark take on You know the dark night ask Joker. I think it is either largely inspired by or largely inspires the dark night Honestly, I can't I don't know what predates which.

Yeah. This is honestly something that I would suggest to new comic book readers. And I really would suggest it to somebody who maybe doesn't get as much love or attention or focused suggestions as they should here. Are young female listeners, if we have any or if we have listeners who are adjacent to them, like I would kind of suggest them to this. Maybe a little bit older than preteen, but in that age range, I think this is a great book. Maybe a great book to read with them. And yeah, man, I mean it goes some places it gets a little dark, it gets a little heavy. One of the things that's nice about reading something like this is if you're buying it online, if you're reading it from the library or whatever, maybe you're not as into it by volume four, as you were by volume one and two. Boom, you don't have to stay for volume six. You don't have to read all of Wonder Woman's history or Wonder Woman's new 52 iterations or anything like that, but I really do enjoy this story.

I suggest it to anybody who's willing or looking to getting the comic books. It's a fun ride. I really found it to be fun, at least when I was reading it. Million dollar question, though. Who would you cast? Oh, yeah.

You're wondering what movie. Thank you so much, Frog. I really appreciate you picking up. We've missed those. I know. We've done so many people that we've missed, yeah, for sure. So to answer the million dollar question that Frog just posed to me, I really have thought

of this multiple times. I thought about it because I was reading Wonder Woman, when Gal Gadot was either cast or coming out for the film and like, it's hard, man. It's hard to find somebody who can run that compassionate line yet be like so strong and adversarial and warrior-esque. Angelina Jolie would definitely be mine because she is my hero. I think if we're talking all time, Angelina Jolie's A1. That's just my heart.

That's my breath. No, I agree. All time I would say Angelina Jolie is who. Yeah, she do really good. Yeah, yeah. I might check out this comic book, you know. Because like, it has that rec influence. And I like rec history, you know.

So, peak sman-trace for sure. There's more than just Hera and Zeus at play here Apollo strife Hephaestus Hades Poseidon so many different characters at play. Oh, it's like. Oh, yes the whole 3040 some issues right but to me I think the most important thing is taking that chance and willing to go you know what? Let's put a new code of pain on this. Let's give this a different look, a different touch, a different feel. Sometimes it really hits, but sometimes man,

given things that different edge, that different color, can be really dangerous, right? Well, kind of the can, but one thing I didn't wanna ask is, okay, so you didn't bring this up, is that she's got that invisible plane or whatever, right? If I'm not mistaken. The invisible jet.

Yes, okay. Now, I wonder, can you like splash stuff on it and then see it? She doesn't always have the invisible jet. And if I remember right, kind of like kryptonite, it may be an advent of something before the comic books. Like, it could be something from super friends or the 70s television show or something like that. I'm not terribly sure of its origins, but yes, I do believe there are ways that you could find a way to suss out the invisible gems. Yeah, because these these dies I'm going to be talking about. Like they're actually used a lot to do a lot of like,

medical things, you know? And it just made me think like, well, I mean, I know it's like metal and whatnot, but still like, I can see it dying some like, of like random metals and stuff like that. Maybe not an invisible metal, whatever. It's made up. Aluminum in your deodorant.

You should be avoiding that. Oh, magical. I think the largest implication is exactly. Exactly. So I mean, if they're magical dyes, that's one thing. I mean, some people might think so or like you said, some people might think they're the devil, but yeah, let's get into these dyes. There's actually only nine synthetic dyes that are approved to be used by the FDA for human consumption. So like I was thinking, you know, there'd be a bunch and I'm like, man, I'm gonna have to like,

group these things up and everything and all that, but no, there's nine. Nope, yeah. Less than all your fingers, toast. Yeah, so like, I mean, when people like flip out, you know, like, it's kind of crazy to think that there's really, like, there's nine dyes that, like, and these are used around the world.

There's a few that are banned and like the EU and stuff we get into that. But, they're also called color additives. Like, I mean, that's where you're gonna hear it mostly. Like, food dies or not. You know, they don't call them even dies. They're called color additives in the industry. Right.

And that's classified as any substance that imparts color to a food, drug, cosmetic, or to the human body. You know, cause it's not just, you know, foods. It could be face paint or the color of your pills or, you know, all these things that are going into your body, that like they have dyes, you know, like all these things are color, all these fancy colors. Let me see you around. You know, like those, those chalk blushes that you're supposed to drink when you get like an x-ray or whatever, right? You drink the... Yeah, even that. Oh, that's nasty.

Yeah, and like things that they use like cell staining and stuff like that, they like use certain dyes, so like when they're doing surgery, there is natural things. And we're not going to really talk about natural ones today, but there is natural additives. And that's, they're, they're technically color additives too. But when I say color additives today, I'm kind of talking about the synthetic ones. Right, right. Like I said, the FDA regulates which type of foods they can be used in, and the maximum amounts

that can be used in them, and how the additive should be identified on the food label. What you'll notice is that they're actually spelled out on the food label. You'll see red 40 or blue one or something like that. These are the additives I'm talking about. When a new additive or a new use is being evaluated by the FDA, and there really has been a new additive for, I think, 20, 30, 40 years.

But what they do is they look at the short and long term effects of its consumption. They look at the additive's composition and properties, the manufacturing process, the stability, the likely amounts of consumption exposure, and the availability of analytical methods to determine its purity and the amount in the food. So, it almost sounds like what the lab that I work for does. They're very analytical with this stuff. Parts per million, what it's being in vibe, right? Yeah, like they really research these things, you know, because like dyes can't, there is a ton of very toxic dyes, like very, very toxic dyes. There's something that I work with in the lab and the microbiology lab is like, you do

now want to get these things on your fingers, you know, like it can cause cancer and stuff, you know? And this is the thing, I'm going to dispel a few rumors when I talk about these because there is some rumors, yeah. Conspiracy. Exactly. And even now, when they're made, all these certified colors and additives in the industry,

they're required batch testing and certification by the FDA. So from what I take from that is that the FDA themselves test it, or they have to test it at the plant. Independently, right. Yeah, kind of like we used to do, you know, an oral job, cause what I used to know, you know, it's testing those batches, you know, to get into what these are, these nine dyes are,

first, a lot of these are labeled FDNC. That means the Food Drug and Cosmetics Act. So like there was an act where like, you know, where they establish a system. Yeah, it has to designate as to which it is. Exactly. Yeah, because there's two and these two they're weird. But yeah, there's two that don't have FDNC for some reason. Yeah, the first one is FDNC blue number one, then there's blue number two and green number three, and then the two that don't have FDNC are orange B and citrus red number two, and then the rest with FDNC are red number three, red

40, which you know, you hear about a lot. Right, yeah. Yellow number five, and yellow number six are last two. Okay, okay. Like I was saying though natural dies Our classified is exempt colors and their pigments that form from natural sources like vegetables or minerals or animals Like you know like beet juice or different types of like rocks and stuff can be colored and things like that You know right or even animal like you know like bugs. So wait a minute minute. Is it true that like a blue? It's kind of crazy. It comes from a beetle. Is that true? No. Okay.

A blue slushie would definitely be like blue number one or two for sure. Okay. Is it healthy? Uh, we'll get into that in a second. But yeah, blue, blue number one's like one of the first ones. So it actually is really healthy. Or not healthy.

It's not healthy for you, but it's not bad. But not any right. It's not like, yeah, I need to make sure you're my blue number one every day. But the natural ones, and it's kind of crazy because like, they're called exempt. I don't know, they don't require as much testing. There's certain like minerals and stuff like, there can be contaminants like crazy. Right. You know, an animal, and it's different animal ones for sure.

In vegetables too, it's like, it's kind of crazy that it seems to me they don't require as much testing, which I get because there is less danger. But at the same bay, you know, it's, I don't know, this is weird. Okay, so when you see artificial colors on your label, that's actually a lot of those are these exempt colors. That's the crazy thing.

Really? Yeah, it's not the synthetic ones, these color additives I'm talking about today. It's actually sourced from vegetables, minerals, and animals, which is kind of crazy, you know. That is weird, yeah. Yeah, because they can get away with it because they're exempt, right? They don't need to label each one. There's one though that is made by bugs, this red beetle I think, and it's the corchineal extract.

And that has to be labeled, if it's in there for some reason. I think maybe because I think people, some people are allergic to it. I think you're something. Right. So do you like know common things that these other additives would be found in? That's exactly what we're going to get into right now. Okay. So we'll start with like blue number one and I search for like what foods they're in and then I kind of search for you know what, what other things are in two, you know. Right. Blue number one, also known as brilliant blue, F-C-F, is used in like confections, beverages, cereals, frozen dairy desserts, popsicles, frostings, icing and blue jala-rachers, which are my favorite. You know, right.

They're used in, and of course slushies too. Like a blue slushie, right, yeah. Exactly. All your blue raspberries, right? That'd be blue number right. Yeah. Yeah. That's my GM right there. Yes. Yes. And it comes in a powder and it's one of the oldest FDA-approved color additives like I said. It's generally thought as safe and non-toxic like there's been no like studies that really you know see that it's there's Toxicity in it. I guess if you apply it directly to the tongue. So if you're like, you know, if you take a spoonful of this stuff and just like swallow it, the actual die, right? Yeah, the die. It does get absorbed in your bloodstream though. So don't take spoonfuls of this die.

But when it's eaten normally, and like this is the thing, because like the FDA has very strong, like strict requirements at how much each of these can be in foods. And they're super small. We've said parts per million is stuff. You were talking about Kyle. It's very my new amounts of these. Yes, if you take a ton of a lot of things, you're going to get poisoned.

It's not just synthetic stuff. If you take a ton of water, you'll die. Right, yeah. If you take a ton of caffeine, you'll die. Right. Yeah. Yeah. If you take a ton of caffeine, you'll die. Or you'll like, yeah. Me. I drink tons of caffeine. But the average human, you know. So like I said, though, like when it's eaten in these normal amounts, you know, 95% of it passes through your body. Like there's very little, and that 5%. I mean, I know it's still like more about the 5% that still comes out But like immediately goes through like your your gut, you know

So like you probably pee out the other 5% or whatever and because of its low toxicity It's often used to sane cells and stuff like living cells and it doesn't inhibit the growth of it while doing so I guess there's been experiments where like they stain like plant cells or Mushroom cells and stuff with this and then it grows. So when you stain cells, you can see a lot more of its organelles and all that, you know, and the functions of it. You almost have to stain it a lot of the time to see that stuff. It's just all transparent.

Science. So blue number two, I kept thinking of MAMO number five, by the way, what else is right in these? I don't know why. Because I said yellow number. of MAMBO number 5 by the way what I was writing these I don't know why because I he's like yellow number blue number two in my life yeah but blue number two also known as indigo car mine is used for things like baked goods cereal snack foods ice cream confections and yogurt so like I think this one is used more from

what it sounds like, like cooking thing, you know, like the classic junk food stuff, you know, it's more less like water-based things. It sounds like more like bread and things and stuff like that. It's also used, though, as a pH indicator. And during surgery, it can be used as a diagnostic die to identify amniotic leaks during obstetareic surgery. I hope I said that word right OB-GYN the OB of that yeah, yeah, yeah, so like yeah Yeah, so like they use it to detect like leaks and pregnant women, you know like amniotic sack leaks with this Yeah, so it's like it's safe enough to use for that You know like a gel or like a like an instrument? They would die like the actual organ, the tissue itself.

So they could like tell if there's a leak, you know, if there's a leak, but they would see it as blue, you know? It's like really blue in a bunch of red, you know? Yeah, I see what it's like. They would die, you know? Exactly, yeah. It has been shown to cause a dangerous increase

in blood pressure, in some cases. No, like with like a lot, you know, if you like, I have a lot of it, you know, again, this is like going against the recommended levels But this one does in some studies they've shown an increase in blood pressure So the third one green number three are also called fast green is using cereal ice cream Sherbert drink mixes baked goods and some canned too, like peas and stuff like that. Okay.

Yeah. Great dying out flour and stuff, yeah. Yeah, like cakes and stuff like that. This is where you see a lot of these dyes when you're like doing like different like frosting and stuff like that, you would see it. Not necessarily green three though. You would see like usually green is made with blue and yellow instead of this one for whatever reason. I think this one is kind of dangerous, but it has a low toxicity though.

But maybe I don't know why, maybe it's just harder to make or whatever, because it is the least used synthetic additive. Out of all these nine, it's the least used one. And it's kind of like an apple marine color. That could be a two. It's not like a true green. And it could be cheaper. It could be cheaper to get two blues, two yellows than to get one green. Exactly. Like I think it's yellow number five, blue number one. Like those two are like two of the most commonly used dies, you know. So like, it's probably cheaper to buy that together. It's cheaper to buy this. You have a true green like you just said, right? Exactly. Yeah. This one though, even so, it's usually combined with a yellow dye, one of the yellows,

to make a more green color. So that might be a two. They're like, well, why didn't buy this, you know? It was just buy, we already have this. Right. We're continent with more yellow, right. Blue, yellow, red. That's all you really need to make.

That's the three primaries, right? That's probably the reason why they don't use this that much. Right, right. But it is the reason why they don't use this that much. Right. Right. But it is used to stain histones during DNA extraction, or as a protein stain during electrophoresis. And I know when I just said that, like you guys probably, what the am I talking about? But that's like, I did that in college. So like, not necessarily using this dye. Maybe I did. I'm not sure. But like for thousands of people, they probably do, right? Yeah, exactly.

So like histones are like, DNAs are really long strand, right? And you gotta fold it up so it can fit in everywhere. And there's these things called histones that kind of like grab bottom. Think of them as like kind of like a little like clamp, you know, like you can clamps the DNA together. So like they like, they can stain that. And like the electrophoresis they like you run electricity through proteins and like,

you know, displays a certain right to keep it simplified. It kind of just it gives a result. Well based on its protons and things like that right, the neutrons. Yeah, like the link. Well, the length and all that. Yeah, the length's fast green though. It is banned in the EU So in the European Union, but it's still using the US Which I don't know the EU gets a little crazy with banning stuff I think even though I'd rather be more procrashes than less so like I'm down with that right? But sometimes I think they go a little ban crazy. Yeah, yeah It's kind of like California. You know like California like things everything causes cancer and California Everything's cancer is right and like I said a recent study show that it has low toxicity

And it wasn't carcinogenic or genotoxic meaning like well, it's not toxic till like your genetics and That it is safe to consume so it's fine More than likely and in the recommended doses again. I'm not a doctor. So, the next one, and not these FDNCs, is orange B. It's only approved for use in hot dog and sausage casings. And you can have up to 150 parts per million in the finished food weight. So, the problem with this is the contaminants are often in person in the genic. It's not necessarily that diet self is that it's also often contaminated. It was first approved in 1966 and then the FDA was removing it in

78. But big hot dog moved away from that. Yeah, like there was like one manufacturer that made this die. They're like, well, we'll just stop making it. Like, I don't, you know, and so it kind of went away, but I think it's still used though, I think. So, like, I don't know, check your hot dogs, but sure there's no orange bee up in there. Yeah, watch that orange bee. Because that was a little weird, you know, that's yeah. I love hot dogs, but people should not be eating them. Oh, man, I don't know, like certain hot dogs. I, you know, I trust cobbles. I was gonna say cobbles, bees, baby, bees. That's our local Michigan. Don't worry, I trust covals. I was gonna say cogovies baby v.s. That's our local Michigan. Don't worry, I'm still gonna eat them. Did all. Any hot dog. Anywhere. All types of

toppings. Yeah, for sure, but like definitely you know, like ball parks and like that. Like, I don't know. That's probably not the best for you. The next one that's not a FDNZ dye is citrus red number two and this one is only approved to color orange peels What yeah Yes, so that one when I read that I'm like, but why and that kind of freaks me out and I don't know Makes me think about oranges because it gives it or you know that nice orgy color sometimes I love where you just look all that good great It's great, I do too, man. Exactly. Yeah.

I mean, well, and it's a solid orangey yellow color, or it can be a dark red powder. And it's another one that's bad to the EU. And by the International Agency for Research on Cancer, it lists it as a carcinogenic. Right. So this one is bad. And I know the why it's approved in the United States, you know like like and it's only used in Florida

You know, it's not it's band in California, and I think what was the other one? Arizona I didn't write it out. But yeah, it is banned in a couple states, right? So like I don't understand why Maybe it's not bad, but it's not used, you know, right? But it and it's only approved for when the fruits to be eaten fresh, not when it's going to be processed, which why would they even use it? What is going to be processed for like orange juice anyways? Right. But so yeah, one reason to why to wash your fruit in vegetables, not even just for the dyes, you know, just in general. Yeah, exactly. Pesticize and stuff, actually more so than that. But yeah yeah so now we're going to get into the back the FDNC ones. Red number three also known as erythrocene is used in confections,

beverages, cereals, ice cream cones, frozen dairy desserts, popsicles, frostings and icing. So pretty much like most of the other ones. Right. And I will say you know I don't usually say my sources with this but I did go a lot of this on the FDA website so I might like straight to the mother source. Right. Exactly. I mean yeah, if it's FDA controlled stuff like let me see what they have to say about it. Right? When we talked about like the vitamin K shot or whatever for infants and stuff like that I feel like you get in a zeitgeist of like conspiracy theories and things like that and like I understand and agree that like the food industry does have like problems but that doesn't mean that every single thing that could be add to your food is necessarily

like terrible or has some hidden agenda you know. Exactly I mean because again it's all about like levels of stuff you know it's it's not so much like moderation. Exactly. But the orange and the citrus red, like that's kind of in my eyes. I don't know why they have that. Right. That's just that's the blanket. We just accept all these things. Like I do agree. This one should probably be gone. Right. Exactly. Yeah. But red number three though, it has a peak color and it's primarily used for foods. But it can be used for things like printing ink, dental plaque dye, so like, you know, like when you see those, like, I think we're like, we're, yeah, you brush it up, and then, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And then as a sensitizer for orthochromatic films too, so like in like filmmaking or whatnot or pictures, you know, it's used for that too. All right. Yeah, but it's commonly used for like candies and ice pops and even more so for cake decorating gels. So like the, again, like the homemade, you you know when you're doing the gels and stuff this one though

It's been in the EU Japan China the UK Australia and New Zealand and it's banned for cosmetics and topical drugs in the US Yeah, so like I don't know why like you can eat it Like, I don't know why, like you can eat it. But you can't pull out your skin. Yeah. There was a partial ban on it in the 90s, due to studies showing that high amounts of it could cause cancer and rats. And I think that's why a lot of these countries banned it.

And they just never reversed it, because if you look at the study though, it was when they fed the rats, 4% of their diet was this die. And then that caused tumors in their thyroid. A 4% of your daily intake was this freaking red number 3. Drain the red number 3. Like enough of the products that's downed in.

4% yeah that's so much of your food. You know be like eating like a handful of it every day or something like that. Like a big old spoon. You're getting like parts pill million servings Exactly over exactly accumulated serving of a product. Yeah for all of them to Oh, yes, and to four percent of your diet would be insane. It would be it would be unless you're like you have like a sound like You know addiction to some certain food that had it or something. I don't know Like Like, it would be crazy. If you only ate foods that had it, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yep. And there is some states that are moving forward on banning it though, like New York and California, but you know, make sense. But now we're gonna get into the big boogie man, red number 40, also known as Oluo Red.

Boom, boom, boom. Yes. And this one's used in cereal, beverages, gelatin, pudding, dairy products, and confections. And it's approved for use in the EU and the US, but there are some local laws that ban it. It's proof for cosmetics, it's proof for drugs, for food, it's also used in some tattoos, as well, like the inks in the tattoos.

So it's already safer than three of them. Now we've talked about on this list. Well, I mean, safer, and this has a banning wise, yeah. Because of that, it's been extensively studied. And there's just one guy I didn't write down his name, but like in the 70s, he like came out with this study saying like this day, and I think yellow number five were like bad for you, but they like disproved it really quick.

And well, bad for you in the sense that it would, if, if, if, if there was a link that he said to this and sodium benzoy, which is a preservative, that's in a lot of, like it's in almost every packaged food. Right. Yeah. If you look at the ingredients, but that it caused hyperactivity. But when the study was trying to be replicated, they couldn't replicate the results. So this is why peer review is important because anybody can say anything in a study, if you can't replicate the results, then it's not true, right? Like, you have to be able to do the same thing.

You have to, it has to be repeatable, right? Or maybe, maybe that happened in that one anecdotal evidence, but proving that, yeah, I mean, all the data was probably tainted maybe, or something like that. So the EU, because of this and other things, because people were talking about it, they did put up precautionary statements about it in the early 2000s. And I think that's probably why people heard about it

because the EU started saying things about it, but in 2014, they withdrew that. They said that the available scientific evidence does not substantiate a link between the color additives and the behavioral effects. So like, it's like I said, it's really well studied. Like it's been heavily researched and there's no link to ADHD. And you know, all three of us, I mean, me and you, Kyle, have been diagnosed with it. Frog, I'm sure has ADHD too.

So yeah, we go, like maybe we just say much of red 40. I doubt it. Who the fuck are you to say what I haven't have a head, Brad? I'm sorry. I mean, there's a lot of things that point to it.

But, all right. But to be honest, this is one of the things that like I specifically remember at a point being limited on in my diet as a child. Really? So, well, your mom limited? Well, maybe she read that. You know, it was like, oh man, he has ADHD, I can't get him in red 40. I think the thing was, was that like, I probably was having a lot of outbursts and a lot of like,

at that point in time, right? And when you look at... Correlation does not not equal causation. No, no, no, but think about it. I mean, like if you're a parent, you hear that. Sure. And you also have the examples of these things are happening and then like adjacent to one of my drinking. I see.

I do, especially in the 90s when like, you know, we didn't have the internet. Like we did, but not like we do now. Like now, you know, you can, I'll go especially in the 90s when like, you know, we didn't have the internet, like we did, but not like we do now. Like now, you know, you can, I'll go look up the study. You know, I can go read the actual, you know, research and be like, well this is bullshit. I mean, maybe not everybody could do that,

but like still, yellow number five though. It's also called tartarazine and it's used in confection cereals, snack foods, beverages, condiments, baked goods, and yogurt. So, you know, mostly these are used in like, again, it's like packaged foods, you know, like, obviously, what else are they going to be used in? But I don't know, like, it's like, a lot of it's like confections and cereals and things like that, you see it in snack foods, right?

It's used all over the world. It's approved all over the world. It's mainly used for yellow, but it's this is the one that's used for blue number one to make green as well. And it's used also to dye silk wool and drugs and cosmetics and food, you know, like the others. But it is also like, it's a fabric dye too,

which is kind of cool because I don't think the other ones are really used to dye fabric most of the time, you know? Yeah, I was gonna say there really hasn't been much industrial purpose besides like food industry metaphor. This dye makes things browner though too. So it's not like it can be, I think a lot of it, you know, make it brown or a lot of it relatively.

But it can make you creamy looking too. And it makes things like lemon color. So it's weird how this dye can be like. Right, it's got a lot of purpose. Yeah, and I think all these dyes are like that. It's kind of cool. Right, thin it and then add in something to like kind of whip it up or whatever else

with whatever you're mixing it into. And now it looks this way. Exactly. Yeah, that is true. That is really interesting. Even a color that is almost famous is Mountain Dew. That's yellow number five. That's what makes Mountain Dew, Mountain Dew colored.

That weird green. Yeah. Yep. And Doritos has it too though too. It does cause some allergic reactions. I will admit, this one does, particularly with asthmatics and people with aspirin intolerance. There were some myths in the 90s that this one caused male infertility or like major

your penis to shrink. But there's no documented cases or studies I show that. So yeah. So the last one though was yellow number six. And this is another one where it was possibly lead to hyperactivity. Number six in run 40 were the two. The one guy said, this is also called sunset yellow, FcF.

I didn't know what FcF meant. It's used in cereals, snack foods, baked goods, gelatin, beverages, dessert powders, crackers. Here's a new one, crackers and sauces too. Right, ooh. Yeah. I think it's funny to think that any of this food could be related to hyperactivity when you look at the diet

that it would have to consist of to be readily available for a kid. It's like all junk food. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, that's the thing, like, I don't know. That's a whole another story about ADHD and stuff because I'm just saying in general, even with all these diets, I mean, that it's part of it, is that like when you look at it's all junk food, you know? Exactly. Yeah, pretty much it is, yeah. But this one though, it's also used in condoms,

though. So it's not just junk food, like this one's used in condoms and cosmetics. So. Oh, okay. Yeah. And in drugs too, you know, so. But it's usually like an orange or yellow orange color. It's shown to not be a carcinogen. It doesn't have any geno toxicity or developmental toxicity. Very cool.

Yeah, in the amounts that it's supposed to be used in, which I say. And like Red Farty was linked to hyperactivity, but there's no scientific evidence to back it up. There's, you know, like one person put out a thing and it was disproven and then sets that one study, which is like a ton of different myths and from perpetuating it like that.

Let me ask you a question, because I have always kind of wondered this. Let's just say I get some diploma mill crackpot degree. Okay. And I run a study. Yeah. And like I fudge the numbers a little bit. Five people try my experiment and find those numbers.

50 people continue and don't find those numbers at all. Is that just like, obviously that's looking at nothing. So you're saying five doing 50 don't. Right. It would be you need more studies. But like it'd be leaning towards yeah, it's not true. Like that's right. But you're not like a crack pot scientist,

people just kind of go like, okay, yeah, well, no, it doesn't pay. Like this, this, this study specifically, it could not be replicated. Like it could never be replicated. There's been no links. Not once. But like pure review isn't just like replicating a study, you know, it can be like them reviewing

your research and seeing your study, your raw data and all that. Like it's, yeah, that's what it usually is. So that's like, that's the nine dyes, you know, like they're really not the big boogie man that people say, other than those two, you know, those two of the ones that stuck out to me. Well, I'm like anything else, I think the best thing is to err on the side of caution. You know, eat these things in moderation. If you're gonna eat them all, research them.

If you're gonna decide you don't wanna eat them at all. And either way, respect people's decision. If they don't, inform people if they, if they kind of question as to why you don't, you know. What kind of dyes are in like water flavor in packets? All of these probably, depending, you know. Yeah. Like the probably blue red and yellow,

for sure, blue number one, red, red, 40, probably, and yellow, six, depending, what do you drink? What flavors do you drink? Yeah. Uh, I love the sonic ocean water. So it's like blue color. And blue. Yeah, it's bright blue number one Look at the pack. I mean I guarantee you yeah, we've got another kind of logic out the people who have a Issue with these food additives oftentimes means that like pro you would have to run across the country and slap drinks and

Snacks out of kids' hands nationwide. Yes, they're literally everywhere, man, and all of our foods. To try to save everybody from these things that realistically, until you start to like overly consume them, don't cause much if any health problems at all. And to be honest, like a lot of the health problems

that will come from these foods are probably like obesity you know what I mean like yeah it's not necessarily the dies aren't the problem it's everything else has in those junk foods that are the problems yeah to make it short and sweet we'd like to thank everybody for joining us here each and every week give us a rating review on your podcast platform of choice. You can find us on our social medias, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and on Patreon. We can get early access to these episodes by one week. That's too long. Oh, I'm sorry. We continue on our March to episode 50, We continue on our March to episode 50 for Brad for frog. I'm Kyle and we will see you again here soon. See ya!

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