Canadian True Crime - 05 Teen Boys Who Kill

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is Christy, and welcome to the Canadian True Crime Podcast, Episode 5, Young Offenders, Part 1. This podcast contains coarse language, adult themes, and content of a violent and disturbing nature. Listener discretion is advised. I think this episode needs an additional warning, as it does discuss murders of children perpetrated by teenagers, and one of them has a sexual component. I don't like to go into gratuitous detail unless it's pertinent to the story of catching

Starting point is 00:00:37 the perpetrator, but still, if you don't feel like you're up to listening to this, I completely understand. Before I get to it, I wanted to tell you that I'll be on vacation for two weeks until the Easter weekend, so there will be a bit of a delay getting the next episode out. But as soon as I get back, I will be continuing on with the next episode. This episode is about young offenders in Canada, and how two of them in particular were connected to the Young Offenders Act. Canada has a history of disagreements on how the criminal system treats young offenders,

Starting point is 00:01:17 with controversy centering on what the best approach is, and also the severity of punishment. At a very high level, before 1908, Canadian children in conflict with the law were treated as if they were adults, often receiving harsh sentences for relatively minor crimes. They were also frequently detained with adults while awaiting trial, and sentenced to adult prisons. In 1908, the Juvenile Delinquents Act came into force, establishing a separate justice system for youth with separate courts. The national age of criminal responsibility was age seven.

Starting point is 00:01:55 The Act was described as a social welfare approach to dealing with young offenders, with judges focusing on reform, not punishment. The Juvenile Delinquents Act didn't allow young people to have legal representation, and once the court decided that the youth was a juvenile delinquent, they could order them to an institution or training school until the authorities felt they were okay to be released. Basically, the government had utmost control. In April 1984, the Juvenile Delinquents Act was replaced by the Young Offenders Act.

Starting point is 00:02:30 Youth were given the right to due process, and their parents were expected to be accountable. This Act also increased the national age of criminal responsibility to 12 years old. Initially, the Act put a limit of three years on a detention sentence for youth offenders no matter what the crime, including murder or sexual assault. There was a ban on the publication of identities of youths who committed criminal acts, with the reason that youth are entitled to special consideration and should not be labeled or made to bear a stigma for acts they carried out at an immature age. It was November 4, 1984 in Orangeville, Ontario, about one hour and 45 minutes drive northwest

Starting point is 00:03:23 of Toronto. It was a Sunday evening, and 11-year-old Michael Babineau and his sister, 9-year-old Monique Babineau, were at home. They came from an avid hockey family, and Monique was supposed to go with her parents to watch their older brother play, but at the last minute she decided to stay at home. After older brother Daniel received a phone call, it was a 14-year-old boy he knew who asked him to meet at school to help with a class project. Daniel was okay with that, and Monique went with him.

Starting point is 00:03:56 The 14-year-old had removed a door plate to access the school. He took the unsuspecting kids into the empty gymnasium where he told Monique to stay. He then led Daniel down the darkened hallway to the girls' change room. While Daniel wasn't looking, the boy pulled a rope out of his pocket and proceeded to strangle the 11-year-old. Daniel didn't even see it coming, he didn't stand a chance. The 14-year-old then made his way back to the gym to find Monique, who was none the wiser.

Starting point is 00:04:27 He took her inside a washroom and grabbed her throat. She said, I'll pray for you. He strangled her too. He dragged their fully-clothed bodies outside and dumped them in between portable classrooms where they were discovered later that night by police. Police investigations led them to the 14-year-old who confessed to the crime. This boy would become Canada's first case under the New Young Offenders Act. As you may have noticed, the publication ban was and still is in force to protect his privacy.

Starting point is 00:05:01 All we know about him is that he was an altar boy at a local Catholic church. So why did he do it? According to the boy, he was an avid player of Dungeons and Dragons, a fantasy tabletop role-playing game that was popular back in the 1980s. We've all heard of it, but for those who don't know, players assume the identity of a character and enter a medieval world riddled with goblins, droids, werewolves and ghouls. The object of the game is to overcome imagined obstacles, mazes and monsters in hopes of landing the treasure or pot of gold.

Starting point is 00:05:38 The boy was a member of a Dungeons and Dragons club and had been Dungeon Master, leader of the game for five months. That Sunday, the boy had spent the afternoon reading about the game while trying to carve out a wooden sword. When the sword broke for the third time, he snapped. A psychiatrist would later say the boy had a psychotic break and became obsessed with the thought that he had to kill, a compulsive drive. The boy pleaded not guilty to two charges of first-degree murder.

Starting point is 00:06:09 If convicted, he faced the maximum sentence of three years in custody as per the Young Offenders Act. The trial went for four days. Dr. Robert Coulthard, a psychiatrist who interviewed the boy, said the teen had settled on Daniel as the victim for, quote, no particular reason. He said he diagnosed the boy as a latent schizophrenic. At the trial, Dr. Clive Chamberlain, then clinical director of Thistle Town Regional Centre in Oakville, Ontario, testified that he also diagnosed the boy as a latent schizophrenic

Starting point is 00:06:45 and said he should not be held responsible for the murders. He described the teen as having, quote, machine-like personality, an obsessive person who was preoccupied with control and with a very extreme separation between thinking and feeling. He went on to say the boy was a personality under great strain and under threat of disillusion, adding that the teen was of superior intelligence and shows cool control with a strong flavour of omnipotence and arrogance. The psychiatrist went on to say that the boy's obsession with control of himself and others was evident in his preoccupation with Dungeons and Dragons.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Under questioning by defence lawyer Jeffrey Mullen, Chamberlain said the boy told him he often took bicycle rides to relieve his tension because, quote, he felt he would explode or dissolve. Expert witness Dr. Thomas E. Radecky spoke of 131 gruesome murders related to Dungeons and Dragons. He said, quote, I have personally been an expert witness in nine Dungeons and Dragons and entertainment violence-related murder trials. In each case, an adolescent or young adult who had become heavily immersed in violent

Starting point is 00:08:02 fantasies from their intense diet of violent entertainment had gone out and committed one or more gruesome murders. At the end of the trial, Judge Ross Webster handed down a 25-page judgement that found the boy not guilty by reason of insanity. Upon sentencing, the judge issued a personal statement, quote, as a judge and as a father, the difficulty we all have accepting is that it would have been nearly impossible to prevent. Moments later, the boy clasped his hands and dropped his head to stare at his lap as the judge went on to say that the boy had suffered, quote, a disease of the mind that made him

Starting point is 00:08:43 incapable of understanding the nature of his acts when he strangled the two children. Daniel and Monique's parents, Marcel and Janine Babineau, sat expressionless in the front row as the verdict was read. The judge ordered the boy be held at the Sill-Apps Youth Centre in Oakville, Ontario until a Lieutenant-Governor's warrant placed him in a psychiatric treatment centre. The decision meant that the boy could have been held indefinitely or until doctors declared him cured. Outside court, Orangeville Police Chief at the time, Ray Holden, told reporters he agreed

Starting point is 00:09:20 with the acquittal while echoing the judge's comments that the murders would have been impossible to prevent, quote, I've tried to analyse this since it occurred, it's a case of an obvious snapping of the mental ability of a person and how do you plan for that, how do you take precautions against it? The case revived the growing protest of the role-playing game Dungeons and Dragons, which at the time was said to be involved in more than 20 murders and suicides in the United States. This was part of the now widely panned moral panic and hysteria in the 1980s which linked

Starting point is 00:09:56 the game to Satanism and suicide. When the story unfolded at the trial, the local Dufferin County Board of Education banned the game and prohibited students from playing it on school grounds. At the time, a spokesperson for the game scoffed at allegations that it was dangerous. As for Monique and Daniel's parents, when they were asked about their feelings about the acquittal, they were replied with a quiet, no comment. They went on to form Project Angel in 2004, which started out as a memorial for their children who played in the minor hockey system.

Starting point is 00:10:33 A wooden Angel statue was created and placed in the cemetery. The project went on to support various local hockey team pursuits and initiatives, with one tournament as recent as October 2016. In 2009, on the 25th anniversary of the murders, the children's father Marcel Babineau told the media he didn't feel free to discuss the tragedy in detail because of the secrecy provisions in the Young Offenders Act. He said, quote, we are kind of caught in the middle, and because of the Y.O.A., there's not much we can say or do.

Starting point is 00:11:09 All we can do is remember. So what happened to the boy? The public were never told, although I found many unsubstantiated rumors that stated he was released and moved with his family to either the U.S. or Northern Ontario. If Orangeville Police Services were advised of his movements following his release from the institution, they never spoke about it publicly. Do you have a passion project that you're ready to take to the next level? SquareSpace makes it easy for anyone to create an engaging web presence, grow a brand and

Starting point is 00:11:52 sell anything, from your products to the content you create and even your time. When I launched this passion project six years ago, I needed some kind of online hub to manage all the non-podcasting tasks that come with podcasting. I chose SquareSpace because it's an all-in-one platform that seamlessly helps me achieve multiple goals. It's important to have a website that looks good, and I was inspired by SquareSpace's wide selection of clean and modern templates. They can be easily customised with pre-built layouts and flexible design tools to fit

Starting point is 00:12:27 your needs. And you can even browse the category of your business to see examples of what others have done. I use the built-in blogging tools to create a new page for each episode, and there are so many intuitive options from embedding an audio player so listeners can stream episodes to scheduling posts to be published on a certain date, an easily moderated comment section and automatically displaying recent episodes on the homepage. Every SquareSpace website and online store includes SEO tools to help you maximise your

Starting point is 00:12:59 visibility in search engines. And I love the powerful insights I can get from the analytics tools, helping me better understand who's visiting the site, where they came from and how they're interacting with it. Do you have a passion project or business idea or something to sell? Go to squarespace.com.ctc for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code CTC to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com.ctc with offer code CTC and get your passion project off the ground

Starting point is 00:13:37 today. It was Saturday, October 24, 1992 in Courtney, a city on the east coast of Vancouver Island in the province of British Columbia. It was dusk, and at about 7.30pm, a townhouse resident, Carol Shaw, called out for her three children who were playing in the complex. When only 10-year-old Anthony and 4-year-old Robin responded, Carol asked neighbours to help look for her missing middle child, 6-year-old Dawn. A police patrol was also in the area responding to an unrelated call and joined the search

Starting point is 00:14:24 when told about the missing 6-year-old. It only took an hour to find her. Lloyd Doucette, a resident in the same townhouse complex, was searching a wooded area on the far side of the neighbouring school playground when he came upon Dawn Shaw at the junction of two footpaths. Her naked body was lying on a pile of leaves and her face was turned to the right. She had bruises and scratches on her torso and neck. Dirt was smeared on her chest and stomach.

Starting point is 00:14:57 Across her left cheek, nose and upper lip was the muddy imprint of a diamond pattern. Her body was still warm. Dawn's death and the manner in which it happened sent shockwaves through British Columbia. Eight weeks later, public horror doubled when police arrested her family's 15-year-old next door neighbour and charged him with Dawn's murder. The boy was described as handsome with thick brown hair. At 6 foot 1, he was strapping and the well-liked captain of the high school rugby team. He was also highly regarded in the neighbourhood and many relied on and trusted him to babysit

Starting point is 00:15:40 their young children, including Lloyd Doucette, the resident who would eventually find Dawn Shaw's body. It didn't take long for police to focus on the boy, ours in fact. Before that, he'd been around the neighbourhood and was even asked to babysit Dawn's siblings while her mum went out to search for her. This happened with the apparent knowledge and approval of the RCMP, who didn't know at the time that he had earlier convictions for sex offences. After that night, the boy also babysat the two children of another neighbour.

Starting point is 00:16:15 By the time police received information about the boy's criminal record, he was no longer babysitting. Neither the police nor the neighbours were aware of his past because his privacy had been assured thanks to the Young Offenders Act. Armed with this new knowledge, the police arrived at the boy's family's townhouse at 1am that same night to question him. The boy acknowledged that he'd been briefly playing hide and seek with Dawn and other children at about 7.30, but he insisted that when the game broke up ten minutes later,

Starting point is 00:16:50 he had returned home to watch TV. After the police left, his mum asked him point blank, did you do it? He replied, no, I didn't. Less than four hours after the police left, they returned, this time with a search warrant. The boy calmly stood by his original account. The investigators took the clothing that he'd been wearing the previous day, a black and purple tracksuit and a pair of black and white running shoes. The boy appeared to not be bothered by the whole situation and agreed to take a polygraph

Starting point is 00:17:24 test. He said, we've got nothing to worry about mum, I didn't do it. The boy was flown by helicopter to Victoria to take the three hour test. He was asked on nine separate occasions whether he'd killed Dawn, each time he answered no. The RCMP polygraph specialist concluded that he was being truthful. Back in Courtney, the boy gave no indication that he was anything but innocent. At the townhouse complex, he helped a neighbour make and distribute pink lapel ribbons in Dawn's memory.

Starting point is 00:18:01 At school, he openly discussed his status as a suspect and his polygraph examination with his rugby teammates. His coach insisted though that he wasn't doing it in a bragging way, quote, he wasn't apprehensive or nervous, there was no noticeable sign that something had happened. Two months after the murder, investigators called the boy and his mother back to the RCMP offices in Courtney and presented the forensic conclusions. They had examined the boy's clothing and Dawn Shaw's body as well as her discarded shorts, top and denim jacket.

Starting point is 00:18:39 The red and black threads found on her jacket matched black strands from the boy's tracksuit and red fibres from a throw rug that covered the sofa in the boy's house. The muddy diamond pattern on Dawn's face was an exact match for the boy's shoes. The evidence was clear and damning. The police officer then asked the boy to tell him the truth about what happened. The boy asked for his mum to remain while he gave a new account of his actions. He said he had walked with Dawn toward the schoolyard and then lifted the little girl onto his shoulders where he quickly crossed the open playground and entered the woods.

Starting point is 00:19:19 There, the boy tearfully recounted. He removed Dawn's clothes, forced her to the ground and sexually assaulted her. The assault was brief due to the interruption of her brother, Anthony, calling for her. The boy said he didn't have time to warn her or threaten her so that she wouldn't tell. He said, quote, And I just lost control. I grabbed her by the throat and I started to choke her. And I jumped on her. I just jumped straight up and landed on her.

Starting point is 00:19:55 Later that day, the boy retraced his steps while a video camera filmed. But this time, his demeanor changed. His voice was unemotional, even flippant as he recalled Dawn's last words, quote, She yelled, Mom, probably at the top of her voice, which ain't very loud. After nearly a year of assessment by court-appointed experts, the boy's case was raised to adult court in 1993 and his name was made public, Jason Carl Gommash. In court, his videotaped reenactment was played and when matched together with the forensic evidence, there was no doubt as to his responsibility for Dawn's death.

Starting point is 00:20:41 On April 6, 1994, a B.C. Supreme Court jury in Victoria convicted him of first-degree murder. He was given the maximum sentence of life in prison with no parole for 10 years. During sentencing, Jason fidgeted, often sweeping back his thick brown hair. When Justice L. Melvin invited him to make a statement, he declined. So who was Jason Carl Gommash? And what led him to this? He was born in Red Deer, Alberta, on September 29, 1976, the second born in his family.

Starting point is 00:21:22 He had a brother three years older. His mother, Nicole, described Jason as an easy infant to care for, quote, Nothing seemed to faze him. He laughed all the time. Jason's parents, Nicole and Dale, separated when Jason was two and over the next few years, the boys moved often, first in Alberta and later within British Columbia. By the time Jason turned 14, he was living with his father in Nanaimo on Vancouver Island. For the previous couple of years, he'd only seen his mom several times a year.

Starting point is 00:22:00 Jason had a rocky entry into adolescence. No longer the chatterbox that both parents say he was before they separated, Jason had become withdrawn. At home, he argued frequently with his father, who was a strict disciplinarian. Jason's close relationship with his older brother, Darren, had become more distant when Darren began dating and spending more time away from home. And their mother was living in Ontario. Jason fell in with an unruly crowd at school and began acting out.

Starting point is 00:22:32 Several reports indicated that in the fall of 1990, his emerging interest in sex first became inflamed when he found one of his father's sex videos that depicted a woman performing oral sex on a man. Eight months later, in March 1991, Jason invited a five-year-old boy to his home and gave him a toy in exchange for taking the teenager's penis into his mouth. Two months after that, he took a four-year-old girl into his father's bedroom and asked her to do the same thing. She refused, and Jason let her leave.

Starting point is 00:23:08 Both children eventually told their parents what happened, and they reported the incidents to police. In November 1991, Jason pleaded guilty to two criminal charges and was placed on 24-months probation and ordered not to be in the company of children under 12. He was also ordered to attend a treatment program for adult sex offenders, so he moved with his father to Courtney, British Columbia, where the John Howard Society treatment program was located. As a young offender, however, his convictions were not made public.

Starting point is 00:23:46 Jason's mother, Nicole, moved from Kirkland Lake, Ontario to Courtney and took over day-to-day responsibility for Jason. They both moved into a two-bedroom townhouse in a low-rent housing complex next door to an elementary school. This is the complex where Dawn Shaw and her family lived. Jason appeared to come good for a while. He joined the Sea Cadets, completed a junior leadership course, and, according to his mom, made conscious efforts to abide by his probation order and not be with children under 12.

Starting point is 00:24:19 He always attended his scheduled appointments at the John Howard Society. As he turned 16, Jason's life seemed like it was turning around. He tried out for the rugby team and became captain of the junior squad. His coach recalled that he made a huge contribution. Quote, he played hard, but he played fair. He was one of those kids that other kids respected. He was a model person. The terrifying darkness in Jason's personality, though, was soon to become evident.

Starting point is 00:24:54 In the lead-up to his trial, Jason was examined by many psychiatrists and psychologists. Some asserted that he was a psychopath or had antisocial personality disorder, essentially lacking a conscience. Psychologist Steven Sigmund declared in a written report to the court that, quote, while Jason does not yet fully qualify for a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, he certainly shows very strong traits of that condition. But there are inconsistencies in the diagnosis of psychopathy. Jason wasn't observed to be an especially talented liar, a well-known psychopathic trait.

Starting point is 00:25:35 His mom said he fidgeted a lot when he did lie, and Jason himself disputed the claims that he had no conscience. Quote, I've had times when I've broken down and cried and screamed thinking what it would be like to be my victim. Another psychiatrist, John McTavish, suggested a different explanation. He argued that Jason suffered from multiple personality disorder, a controversial diagnosis with the central hypothesis that several different personalities can exist within a single body, often being unaware of each other's actions.

Starting point is 00:26:10 Today the condition has evolved and is called Dissociative Identity Disorder. McTavish noted that Jason met several diagnostic criteria for the disorder, like experiencing blackouts where he couldn't remember where he'd been or what he'd done. Jason insisted that he didn't remember killing Dawn, and he said he also didn't remember his cold re-enactment of the murder for the police video camera. The psychiatrist added that Jason had actually passed the lie detector test, meaning that perhaps the murder was not committed by Jason's primary personality. The multiple personality disorder diagnosis failed to answer all the questions that came

Starting point is 00:26:50 up over Jason's actions, but the notion was certainly reflected in his own descriptions of the murderous impulses that overcame him. Shortly after his arrest, he told his parents that, quote, it is as if someone else is taking over. He's mean, he's cruel, and he's vicious, it's not me, I want the old Jason back. Together, Jason and his parents decided to call that vicious personality Carl, Jason's middle name. In an interview Jason conducted with McLean's Magazine, a weekly current affairs magazine

Starting point is 00:27:24 in Canada, Jason described Carl as the side of his personality that takes over when he's in danger. Quote, if I'm in the yard and 3 or 4 guys come up and start threatening me, I'm not going to be there, Carl is. At the time, it was thought that in contrast to psychopathy, multiple personality disorder was able to be treated with long term therapy. Jason expressed the hope that the treatment would work and would bring his violent impulses back under rational control.

Starting point is 00:27:56 Quote, if I can blend me and Carl, some of my feelings and thought patterns will cancel out some of his, as soon as I can get that together, I can start a new life. Until then, Jason insisted that he didn't want to be released. After nearly 2 years in custody, the media reported a new development in Jason's thinking. He said, quote, there is a part of me that likes Carl because he's got qualities you need in the prison system. It wasn't hard to believe that a capacity for ruthless violence would intensify within the brutal precincts of the prison system.

Starting point is 00:28:34 It troubled Jason's lawyer, Keith Jones, who worried that without appropriate treatment, quote, Jason will have gone into prison, but Carl is going to come out and Carl is lethal. A few years after the crime, the media also brought up the fact that at age 23, Jason would become eligible for unescorted release from prison. At that age, there's a lot of evidence that suggests violent sex offenders are reaching their predatory peak. Jason spoke through the media again and made it clear he didn't want to follow in that pattern.

Starting point is 00:29:07 In fact, he dreamed of an ordinary life, quote, a job, a stable family, someplace I'm not crowded. He added that he was baffled by his own capacity for violence. In April 1994, a month after Jason was sentenced, the media reported that Dawn's family was still looking for justice because of the fact that Jason was eligible for parole just ten years into his prison sentence. They said they would fight to keep him in jail. Dawn's distraught aunt, Judy Winig, said, quote, we're going to be there when you're

Starting point is 00:29:41 eligible for parole, every one of us. She said they promised to fight any legal effort to free him. Just over a year after the trial, on August 1995, Dawn Shaw's mother, Carol Shaw, sent a video to Jason Gamash telling him how his actions had affected her, her husband, Ron, their two surviving children, and the rest of their family. She asked what made him commit the crime. Although multiple psychiatrists gave their diagnoses, Carol said she needed to hear it straight from Jason.

Starting point is 00:30:16 In her video, she was level-headed with no tears, no anger, and no yelling. In reply, Jason sent a tape back that was essentially a reaction video of him watching her tape. In it, he asked, quote, why is she not mad? He didn't discuss the murder, but at the time, Carol Shaw said she felt she was getting somewhere. Carol never did get the answers she was looking for. Just over 18 months later, on February 3, 1997, Jason was found hanging from a showerhead

Starting point is 00:30:49 at Mountain Institution. Staff and ambulance personnel tried to revive him for 45 minutes with no success. He died at age 20. The assistant warden, Bruce Anderson, said they didn't suspect foul play and the preliminary indications were that it was a suicide, although he did add there was no suicide note and no indication that Jason was going through any form of withdrawal or depression. Dawn Shaw's grandmother said she was glad Jason Gommash was dead, but Dawn's mother Carol Shaw said she felt sorry for Jason's mother, quote, no matter what he did, I could

Starting point is 00:31:26 never wish anyone dead. His mother is all I have on my mind. I know the pain of losing a child. There was a coroner's inquest into Jason's death, and jurors found that he didn't commit suicide in his jail cell as first thought, but instead he was the accidental victim of autoerotic asphyxiation. These days, most people know what this is, a method of increasing sexual excitement by restricting the oxygen supply to the brain, but back then it wasn't as well known.

Starting point is 00:31:59 The coronial inquest jury heard that Jason looped a pair of underpants around a shower tap and put his neck through a loop. Jurors ruled the death accidental after hearing the testimony that Jason did not appear depressed and did not leave a suicide note before his death. Also, there was semen found on his body. The Young Offenders Act continued to be dogged by controversy, with occasional debates flaring up in Parliament. On May 1990, Bill Gilmore, the then Reform MP for Nanaimo, Albany, British Columbia,

Starting point is 00:32:36 gave a speech detailing how the Young Offenders Act, quote, "...failed a seriously disturbed sexual offender and, more seriously, a young girl in her family." He went on to say that Jason's probation order clearly stated he was to have no contact with children under 12 years of age, but his neighbours, the local authorities, and even the Courtney RCMP, weren't aware of this because of the privacy sections of the Young Offenders Act. The only people who knew of Jason's criminal background were his mother, the place he was being treated as a sex offender, and his probation office.

Starting point is 00:33:13 Side note, for me personally, I wonder why Jason's mother apparently allowed him to babysit local children and in fact rented a house right next to a school given the clear restrictions placed on him. This is a question that I couldn't find the answer to. MP Bill Gilmore went on to say that Dawn Shaw's life could have been saved with the elimination of this privacy section of the Act and the establishment of a Young Offenders Registry, including repeat sexual offenders, quote, "...such a registry would have provided Dawn Shaw's parents with a warning, at least a

Starting point is 00:33:49 chance. The rights of innocent children must be protected ahead of those of the violent offenders." In order to do that, the records of young people who commit serious crimes should be treated the same as adults in all respects. Thanks for listening. If you liked this episode, please make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you're automatically notified of upcoming episodes. This one wouldn't have happened without a couple of cool coincidences and people.

Starting point is 00:34:25 Thank you to the two listeners who separately sent me their hometown murders that they each have a personal connection with. Chris sent me the murders of Monique and Daniel Babineau from Orangeville, Ontario and Taylor sent me the murder of Dawn Shaw from Courtney, British Columbia. And I also wanted to thank Taryn, who messaged me just days ago with another young offender case which is going to be featured in part two. Turns out Taryn has vast professional experience with the Young Offenders Act and was able to clarify some areas of confusion for me.

Starting point is 00:34:57 You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. And this episode I have two podcast recommendations. The first is the Minds of Madness. Now I know I've already recommended this podcast, but if you haven't subscribed yet, I especially wanted to flag the latest episode. It's about a Canadian crime that, believe it or not, I have a personal connection to. By sheer coincidence, I had a small run-in with the perp a few weeks before she committed

Starting point is 00:35:24 the crime. The story made big news here in Toronto and it's one that you're not going to want to miss. So if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the Minds of Madness and listen to Episode 6, Rohini Bezosar. The next podcast is Court Junkie. I listened to my first episode of this a few weeks ago and was blown away. Also, it just happened to be on the case and trial of Cody Legibakov or Cody Legibokov.

Starting point is 00:35:52 I picked a pronunciation and I think I got it wrong. Anyway, if you want to hear more on this, including audio from Cody's interviews, Gillian from Court Junkie really does an amazing job of fleshing out the characters from the story and goes into more detail about the trial itself. So if you haven't already, please go and check out Court Junkie as soon as you can. So now to the thank yous. Reviews, support and kind words really do mean the world to me and keep the cases coming through because I am adding a lot of them to my roster.

Starting point is 00:36:27 Thanks to all of you who have left 5-star iTunes reviews since my last episode. Terry NJ54, Fudge Pants123, KD Valencia, Storm Lightning Bane, Wordbrain19453606374, Murray Sucks, Linz, Maxcall11, Hippie3898, Joy987, Kim20102010, Rachel113007, Ross Ferguson and Cambo from the True Crime Island podcast. Make sure you check that one out too. I did get one 3-star review and they said my backing music is too loud. I'd really be interested to hear if anyone else thinks this. You can find me on Facebook or even tweet me at CanadianTCpod.

Starting point is 00:37:16 Thanks to all of those who left a 5-star review on the Facebook page. Jennifer, Jill, Janine, Taylor, Kim, Xenia, Allie, Ashley, Cambo, Leanne, TJ and Yana. And a huge thank you to all of you who I've seen recommending this podcast to people. Like Jeff, Bella, Jen, Jordan, two separate Maggies, Michelle, Maya, Katie and my real life friends Callie, Justie, Susan and Joanna. If I've forgotten anyone I'm sorry it's getting hard to keep track, a good problem to have I guess. And lastly thanks always to everyone who posts kind words and sent messages on Facebook and

Starting point is 00:37:56 Twitter. I will be back with another Canadian True Crime story when I'm back from vacation. As always if you have any story suggestions please feel free to send them to me because I am paying attention. Thanks again and see you soon. Pull back the curtain and give you a glimpse into the life and crimes of some of the most demented minds. Check out the episode Broken Bonds and listen to a brother reveal a deeply held secret or

Starting point is 00:38:50 hear about the day that the heavy metal community will never forget in the episode Dime Bag. These episodes are just a sample of our catalogue so you have plenty to binge. Just search for True Crime Fan Club Podcast and any podcatcher you won't want to miss an episode.

Canadian True Crime - 05 Teen Boys Who Kill

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