Canadian True Crime - Case Updates and Reflections 2019

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi everyone, as you know I'm still on break until September 15th, although when I say I'm on break I'm really not. I was just doing some other podcast related things. I was at the True Crime Podcast Festival in July and I presented the case there as a live episode with Robin Water from The Trail Went Cold. I've since produced it as an episode which is currently available to patrons at the $2 level for a limited time. So if you wanted to check it out you can go to Patreon.com slash Canadian True Crime.

Starting point is 00:00:41 The True Crime Podcast Festival was a raging success and I'm so excited to say it will be back next year, this time in Kansas City, Missouri in July 2020. I will be there with bells on and I look forward to meeting those of you who come too. For more info just go to truecrimepodcastfestival.com. And then on August the 18th I paired up with Jordan from the Nighttime Podcast to organize True Crime Podcast live in Toronto, a show, again with Robin Water from The Trail Went Cold as well as Nina from Already Gone and Aaron from The Generation Y as well as other special guests including Rodney Stafford who you'll hear from in a second.

Starting point is 00:01:26 And at the time of recording I am leaving for my actual vacation tomorrow. I'm going to Blue Mountain Ontario with my husband, kids, dog and in-laws who are over from Australia. I am not sure it'll be very relaxing but at least I don't have to work my day job or do any podcast work so there is that. In any event there have been some significant updates to some of the cases I've covered and summer is the perfect time to tell you all about it and give you some of my thoughts along the way.

Starting point is 00:01:57 There are some spoilers in these cases obviously so if you haven't listened to all my episodes you can check the show notes you'll see timestamps for the cases I'm covering. If you listened to these episodes you likely won't need a recap because it's just one of those cases that sticks with you. In 2009 8 year old Victoria Stafford disappeared while walking home from school in Woodstock, Ontario. The city was immediately gripped in panic and the entire country looked on as a massive police search and investigation was underway.

Starting point is 00:02:39 It was a very high profile case. Finally after three months searching little Tory's body was found under a rock pile in a nearby rural area. As the case unraveled it was revealed that she had been abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered by 28 year old Michael Rafferty and his girlfriend 18 year old Terry Lynn McClintic. McClintic pleaded guilty to first degree murder. Rafferty pleaded not guilty to kidnapping, sexual assault and first degree murder but

Starting point is 00:03:12 was found guilty. They were both sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years. Rafferty tried to appeal but was quickly shut down. So now it's been 10 years since Tory's murder and the two aren't even halfway through their sentences. But last year some things were revealed which set a whole bunch of wheels into motion. At the live show in Toronto we were honoured to have Rodney Stafford, Victoria's father join us on stage to have a conversation about what happened.

Starting point is 00:03:47 Here is some audio from that conversation that took place on August the 18th, 2019. I talk about what and when the media reported and Rodney corrects me with what was happening behind the scenes. In October of last year McClintic moved to an Aboriginal healing lodge. Actually she was transferred in December of 2017. Was she? But I didn't find out until August of last year. Wow.

Starting point is 00:04:18 And then in December of last year you found out that Rafferty was transferred to medium security. Back in March of last year. So I found out both times about eight months after the fact. What originally happened was I had got a message from my mom to get a hold of Correctional Service Canada. What had happened was Terry Lynn was applying for day passes for medical leave. And so I was normally like anything when it comes to anything like that okay you know

Starting point is 00:04:52 there's no reason for her to be leaving anywhere like bring medical to her like this I don't get this. So I called up my worker to find out information regarding Terry Lynn. And the information I got just floored me because during our conversation she had mentioned to me that Terry Lynn was going to be going on a day pass and the day pass would take place in Maple Creek, Saskatchewan. And my first thought was this is a waste of money. She's in kitchen.

Starting point is 00:05:25 Yeah. Why bring her three provinces, two provinces over? Like I don't get it. So they did a review on her file and they basically told me she had been transferred eight months prior to our conversation and she was living at a native healing lodge which was a minimum security level with no fencing, families with children, with open concept living. She could wander the grounds and communicate with anybody and right off the hop it was no we've got to get her out of there.

Starting point is 00:06:02 That's not right. She's a maximum, she's a child killer. Like put her where she belongs, put her behind bars. Like we fought with the courts like the crown attorneys and everything to put her where she was. At least she should have to serve the sentence imposed by the judge. Did you ever find out why she was transferred? It's not like she reached the end of her sentence and she was preparing for release and entering

Starting point is 00:06:35 the last stages of rehabilitation. It's like halfway through her sentence. It wasn't even. Yeah. I think I believe she was only five, well, two thousand, yeah, five years into her sentence. So it's, yeah. But why? What was that, do you guys as the family members of the victims ever find out why these decisions

Starting point is 00:06:56 are made? Like why was she transferred to a healing lodge right now? Not until it's too late. We don't find that. We get notified after the transfer, like we're supposed to have all the information given to us prior to transfers, prior to lower, or actually no lowering of security. We don't even get to find out. But they're supposed to notify us regarding anything to do with the offenders and especially

Starting point is 00:07:20 when it comes to transfers and stuff like that, and we never received any notification whatsoever. This case. Sorry. I need to take that back. Everybody else did on the contact list except for myself. So there was actually another five or six people out there that knew for eight months that she had been transferred, but nobody had said anything thinking that I'd be too upset.

Starting point is 00:07:41 Or I already knew and I just was holding it in, but nobody had said anything to me. And what happened after that? How did Justice Fittori get started? It all came about when I pushed to do a protest November 2nd on Parliament Hill, and the main objective of that protest was to have her brought back to a traditional prison, get her out of the healing lodge, and put her back behind bars where she belongs. And I believe it was a week later after our protest, I got notification that Terry Lynn had been removed from the healing lodge and placed into a place, and she had been placed

Starting point is 00:08:28 back into a traditional prison in Edmonton where we come to learn the day after one of the fellow inmates at the healing lodge escaped from the exact same location. So there's a good potential, it could have been her. So you get justice because someone is convicted and they get put away, but then justice is... This is Aaron from the Generation Y. Is temporary possibly because there might be changes that you have no idea even happening that redefine what the justice is in that case. Yes, and we have to start standing up now.

Starting point is 00:09:06 Victims must come together, and we need to start speaking our minds. Why should everybody have to fear for their own safety, especially with offenders who shouldn't even be out on the streets? They should be behind these bars as the sentences that were imposed by the judges. It's just too many people are being released for nothing. I then asked Rodney to tell me about his new not-for-profit initiative. When Victoria first disappeared, Child Find Ontario from Toronto here in Mississauga had contacted me and they were a part of my life when I did the first bike ride for Victoria

Starting point is 00:09:42 at West. Not too recently, one of the women who was working with Child Find at the time had contacted me. She's now the Executive Director of Community Safety Partners out of Orangeville. It's an organization, not-for-profit organization, who basically, about making it safer for children and families. She has taken us under our wing where she wants to help Justice for Tory become a federal charity where we can help victims' families, we can help victims themselves.

Starting point is 00:10:18 We're in the beginning stages like this is all new to me. Ten months ago, I was trying to just work and everything. I just wanted to move on with my life and try to suck everything up, and then we were thrown right back into all the media. But I'm not going to back down, no, like, that was my little girl, I can't. It's been an absolute pleasure getting to know Rodney and using my platform to raise awareness for his advocacy. I'll be keeping you guys updated as to what Rodney and Justice for Tory, Care of Community

Starting point is 00:10:54 Safety Partners, will be getting up to. So this was the story of the nurse who murdered multiple elderly people in long-term aged care and attempted to murder even more. Where we left off, there was an inquiry into how the aged care system could be improved to ensure crimes like this don't happen again. In July of 2019, the report was released called Public Inquiry into the Safety and Security of Residence and the Long-Term Care Home System. After two years of investigation, which covered the crimes and circumstances and the policies

Starting point is 00:11:40 and procedures that may have allowed Wet Lelfer to go undetected for so long. The report speaks to four myths around what Wet Lelfer did and why it continued. The first myth is that the offensives were mercy killings. Commissioner Eileen E. Gilles wrote that she killed for her own gratification and for no other reason. Other myths include a belief that, quote, the pressures on the long-term care system will pass once the baby boomer generation is gone, the fact that she's in jail means the threat is gone and also that the offensives caused only limited harm.

Starting point is 00:12:22 All myths. One of the principal findings of the report was the shocking truth that if Wet Lelfer hadn't confessed to her crimes, she would not have been caught. The other two principal findings were that the offensives she committed were the result of systemic vulnerabilities and therefore no findings of individual misconduct are warranted. This basically means that it wasn't the fault of any one person, but the fault of the aged care system and also the report found that the long-term care system is strained but not broken.

Starting point is 00:12:59 The aim of the inquiry was to make recommendations on how to avoid similar tragedies in the long-term care system and to enhance the safety and security of residents living in long-term care homes. The report produced 91 recommendations in total, including the need for more spot checks on evenings, nights and weekends. It recommended the development of a new system to track deaths of patients in long-term care as well as more investigations by the coroner after deaths. Other recommendations included more staff training, better procedures to manage medication and also increasing awareness about serial killers in healthcare.

Starting point is 00:13:43 At this time, these are just recommendations and it is up to the government to take them on board and implement them as it sees fit. We certainly hope that it will. Episode 45, Sarah and Talia Sarah Bailey and her five-year-old daughter, Talia Marsman, were brutally murdered by Edward Downey in Calgary in 2016. As it turned out, he was the boyfriend of Sarah's best friend and he harboured feelings of ill will towards Sarah because she was trying to get her friend out of an abusive

Starting point is 00:14:23 relationship. Downey was found guilty on two counts of first-degree murder and where we left off, he hadn't yet been sentenced. A first-degree murder conviction has an automatic sentence of life with no chance of parole for 25 years. The judge in this case had the option to sentence Downey to concurrent sentences, meaning he would be eligible for parole in 25 years or the option was there to sentence him to consecutive terms, meaning he would have to spend 50 years in prison before applying for parole.

Starting point is 00:15:00 11 of the 12 jurors recommended the 50-year parole ineligibility option and that's exactly what he was sentenced to. He'll be 96 years old when he can apply for release from prison. Justice Beth Hughes agreed with the Crown Prosecutor that Downey's actions called for consecutive periods of parole ineligibility, quote, Mr. Downey experienced no remorse after killing Ms. Bailey and then, a number of hours later, a five-year-old defenseless child. Sarah and Talia's family can breathe a sigh of relief that they likely won't ever have to attend a parole hearing.

Starting point is 00:15:45 Episode 44, The Brentwood Five This was the tragic story of a college house party in Calgary, a night where five young people lost their lives. Zachariah Rathwell, Jordan Segura, Josh Hunter, Katie Parris and Lawrence Hong. They were attacked and stabbed at the end of the party by Matthew DeGrood, who was deemed to be not criminally responsible due to mental illness. The NCR defence hinges on the offender not being able to understand that their actions were wrong.

Starting point is 00:16:22 This ended up being one of my most controversial episodes. I was contacted by several mental health advocates and others just decided to leave anonymous one-star reviews. They basically said that my coverage was too biased towards the victims and didn't fully explore the not criminally responsible designation from the side of the offender. I was told my coverage was insensitive to the stigma that people with significant mental illness face. I was told I didn't address the fact that the vast majority of people with schizophrenia

Starting point is 00:16:56 are non-violent and that my episode demonised those with a mental illness. I was also given figures for recidivism rates for NCRs. Of those who are released, anywhere from 17 to 19% will re-offend. This is compared to the approximately 37% recidivism rate for other offenders who are not NCR. So yes, they do re-offend less. But I wanted to respond to this feedback here. Firstly, I suffer from mental illness myself, depression and anxiety.

Starting point is 00:17:32 I have been medicated on and off for 20 years, on for the last five, and I now know that I will likely remain medicated for the rest of my life. I'm not at all unsympathetic to those with mental illness. And while I haven't personally experienced paranoid schizophrenia, I certainly have experienced having a brain that doesn't work the way it should. But in creating the Brentwood 5 episode, I consulted closely with a spokesperson for the families of the victims and I heard first hand the details of their experiences with the legal system both before and after the trial.

Starting point is 00:18:12 As we know, the Canadian legal system focuses on rehabilitation, not punishment. I think this is a good thing. But over the years of creating this podcast, a common theme I've been finding is that things are swinging too far in the other direction, with such a focus being put on the offender that the families of the victims are made to feel like helpless outsiders in the process. And I do know it makes sense. Our criminal justice system was created to focus on the offender. But that doesn't make it any less tragic that family members of victims continue to

Starting point is 00:18:49 be traumatised by our legal process. So as a storyteller who was working with the families of the victims of this case, I chose to use the Brentwood 5 episode to highlight their experiences as they were grieving losing their sons and daughter while navigating a legal system that continuously re-victimises them as it focuses on rehabilitating the person responsible. So mental health advocates, I do understand your perspective, but I remain conflicted. Do I think that NCRs deserve to be locked away for life? No.

Starting point is 00:19:28 But do I think our criminal justice system has the best interests of the public at heart when we see NCRs progressively given more freedoms and then give an absolute discharge pretty early without any known checks and balances in place to make sure they continue to take their medication when released? That one I am not sure. And honestly, I'm not sure if my opinion really counts anyway. But while I feel for the family and friends of Matthew DeGrood, he is still alive and will be released soon enough.

Starting point is 00:20:01 The families of Zachariah Rathwell, Jordan Segura, Josh Hunter, Katie Parris and Lawrence Hong will never see their loved ones again. So what I'm saying is that I do understand there is a whole other side to explore, but I felt that Matthew DeGrood, the perpetrator of the Calgary stabbings has enough people advocating for him, the entire criminal justice system in fact. The families of the five victims do not. I hope to have another opportunity to explore this again, but in working with the families of the victims, I decided that this particular episode was not the place for it.

Starting point is 00:20:42 I hope that you can understand my decision. Do you have a passion project that you're ready to take to the next level? SquareSpace makes it easy for anyone to create an engaging web presence, grow a brand and sell anything from your products to the content you create and even your time. When I launched this passion project six years ago, I needed some kind of online hub to manage all the non-podcasting tasks that come with podcasting. I chose SquareSpace because it's an all-in-one platform that seamlessly helps me achieve multiple goals.

Starting point is 00:21:24 It's important to have a website that looks good and I was inspired by SquareSpace's wide selection of clean and modern templates. They can be easily customized with pre-built layouts and flexible design tools to fit your needs and you can even browse the category of your business to see examples of what others have done. I use the built-in blogging tools to create a new page for each episode and there are so many intuitive options from embedding an audio player so listeners can stream episodes to scheduling posts to be published on a certain date, an easily moderated comment section

Starting point is 00:22:00 and automatically displaying recent episodes on the home page. Every SquareSpace website and online store includes SEO tools to help you maximize your visibility in search engines. And I love the powerful insights I can get from the analytics tools, helping me better understand who's visiting the site, where they came from and how they're interacting with it. Do you have a passion project or business idea or something to sell? Go to squarespace.com.ctc for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer

Starting point is 00:22:34 code CTC to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com.ctc with offer code CTC and get your passion project off the ground today. Episode 41, The Murder of Lyle and Marie McCann This was the story of Lyle and Marie McCann, the elderly couple in their late 70s who set out on a road trip from Alberta to British Columbia in 2010. Their burned out motorhome and vehicle were later discovered, but their bodies have never been found.

Starting point is 00:23:21 In 2017, Travis Vader was convicted of the second degree murder of Lyle and Marie. The same day that I posted that episode, MP Dane Lloyd presented a private members bill, Bill C-437 in the House of Commons. With past, the bill refuses to give a convicted murderer parole eligibility if they refuse to provide information about where the body is. Nobody, no parole. The bill is also known as addressing the continuing victimisation of Homicide Victims Families Act and would amend the current act to provide for consequences at sentencing in parole eligibility

Starting point is 00:24:07 determination and for conditional release application. The bill is being called McCann's Law, in honour of the couple. Helping with the creation of the bill was their oldest son, Brett McCann. For him and the rest of his family, their goal was not about getting revenge on Travis Vader or punishing him further, it's about their ability to move on in life. Quote, it's very important to my family that we find out where my parents' bodies are. Any incentive to give Vader to step up and tell the truth, I'm totally behind that. Brett said it's important for the McCann family to know what happened to their parents

Starting point is 00:24:51 and that their remains be located. Travis Vader appealed his conviction in May of 2019, hoping for a new trial, but the judge dismissed the appeal. That said, he will be eligible for parole in 2021, so this new legislation is timely. Brett McCann told Post Media that aside from the family finding out the location of Lyle and Marie's remains, another important factor of the bill is the rehabilitation factor, because it effectively encourages an offender to acknowledge his guilt, which is one of the vital steps of rehabilitation.

Starting point is 00:25:31 Quote, it's a win-win. From a victim's family standpoint, we find out information that is very important to us. And from an offender's point of view, he is encouraged to rehabilitate and re-enter society. And for public safety, it is recognised here that they release someone back into the system that is rehabilitated. I wish the McCann family well in their lobbying, because this bill makes total sense to me. I see no reason why Travis Vader should be given parole when he refuses to tell the family

Starting point is 00:26:06 how Lyle and Marie died and where their remains are. If rehabilitation is the goal of our legal system here, that is certainly not it. This was the story of the couple in their 40s who were having an affair and how their unsuspecting spouses became the prime target of a murder plot. As you'll recall, Curtis Vey's wife Bridget was rightly suspicious of her husband. One day she left an iPod on the kitchen table that recorded a conversation that her husband had with Angela Nicholson, the woman he was having an affair with. On it, they talked about their affair but went on to discuss a possible plot to murder

Starting point is 00:26:57 both of their respective spouses. In court, they both pleaded not guilty to the charge of conspiracy to commit murder, giving the excuse that it was just a conversation and not a genuine intention to act. Vey even said that he knew they were being recorded. They were both found guilty anyway. From there, they only spent one month in jail before being allowed out on bail while their appeals were processed. They were granted a new trial.

Starting point is 00:27:30 The reasons given were that the first trial judge failed to adequately instruct the jury on how to make a decision on whether Curtis and Angela had genuine intent to follow through with the murder plot. And also, the ruling found the judge didn't properly explain the relationship between circumstantial evidence, meaning the iPod recording, and proof beyond a reasonable doubt that they were conspiring to commit actual murder. And obviously, conspiracy to murder requires two people, so both Curtis and Angela were ordered a new trial.

Starting point is 00:28:09 But things got complicated. As it turns out, when Bridget Vey first gave the recording to the RCMP, they assumed they didn't need a warrant because she gave it to them. But at a voir dire, which is an admissibility hearing that comes before a trial, the judge did not agree with this and here is why. Bridget Vey wasn't actually present when the recording happened. So in the eyes of the law, it was not her recording to give to the police. She just did not have the authority.

Starting point is 00:28:44 And because they had no legal warrant for it, it breached the charter rights of Curtis Vey and Angela Nicholson, so the recording was deemed inadmissible as evidence. And because this recording was the crown's key piece of evidence, they declined to move forward with the trial. They are considering an appeal. Angela Nicholson's lawyer, Ron P. Shea, spoke to Global News outside the courthouse, saying he wanted the public to know that this wasn't just a case of his client getting off on a technicality.

Starting point is 00:29:18 He said Angela maintains that she didn't intend to hurt anyone. Bridget Vey, Curtis Vey's wife, told the media afterwards, quote, I'm at peace with this and that it's finally over. We can go on with our lives. Episodes 22 and 23, Andrea Giesbricht This one was probably the most bizarre case I've covered. The Winnipeg woman who was found storing the bodies of six infants in a U-Haul storage locker.

Starting point is 00:29:53 We never found out Andrea's side of the story. Her lawyer argued that she wasn't concealing infant remains, she was saving them. Regardless, she was found guilty of concealing infant remains and was sentenced to eight and a half years minus time served, which ended up being seven and a half years. So last we heard, Andrea was preparing an appeal and asked to be released on bail, but this was denied because the proposal for where she would live on bail wasn't deemed to be adequate. Well, as it turns out, it didn't matter.

Starting point is 00:30:29 In April of 2019, Andrea's appeal was heard in court. She appealed both her guilty conviction and her sentence. A panel of judges dismissed the appeal for her guilty verdict, but permitted the appeal of her sentence. Justice Christopher J. Manella called the case deeply disturbing, but said the original sentence assumed Andrea was guilty of actions for which she was never tried or convicted. As you'll recall, she was only convicted of concealing the remains, not of being responsible for their deaths.

Starting point is 00:31:07 The justice said, quote, we will never know why the six little lights went dark due to the accused's appalling dishonesty. However, just as the mighty are not above the law, the unpopular are not outside of its protections, even on facts as troubling as here. Andrea Giesbrecht was free to go. Episodes 19 and 20, Dellen Millard and the Murder of Laura Babcock. As you'll recall, Dellen Millard and Mark Smitch were first arrested for the murder of Tim Bosmer, the encaster man who was trying to sell his truck on Kijiji.

Starting point is 00:31:50 After that, it came out that they may have had something to do with the disappearance of Laura Babcock, Millard's some-time love interest who went missing the year beforehand. Laura's murder was tried as a no-body case, with a crown presenting evidence that the two men likely disposed of her remains in the incinerator months before they did the same to Tim Bosmer. Dellen Millard and Mark Smitch were found guilty of the first-degree murder of Laura Babcock in December of 2017. In August of 2019, the media reported that, alarmingly, Laura's family is now being forced

Starting point is 00:32:32 to prove that their daughter is actually dead. According to the Ontario Office of the Chief Coroner, in situations where a person is believed to be dead but their remains have never been recovered, the law states that a coroner can't complete a death certificate. This is, of course, despite the fact that two men were convicted of her murder. The Babcock family are effectively stuck in a mire of red tape. To have a person officially declared dead when no remains are available, the family must get a court declaration through the Declarations of Death Act.

Starting point is 00:33:12 This involves going to court to establish the death through one of two ways. The first is through what's called Circumstances of Peril, which can include situations like a plane crash where no remains are recovered. And the second way is through a lengthy investigative process, once seven years have passed since the person was last seen. And this is the route that Laura Babcock's family has had to take. Instead of being able to move forward, the Babcock family were required to appear before a judge to get a court order to officially declare her dead.

Starting point is 00:33:52 And they did. At the exact same court where Millard and Smitch were tried and convicted for Laura's murder, which I'm sure was incredibly hard. Linda Babcock, Laura's mother, said that in similar situations, the family would like to see a legislative directive that states that the coroner's office will accept a murder conviction as a judgment that a person is dead, whether their remains have been recovered or not. It's too late now for the Babcock family, who were no doubt revictimised through the

Starting point is 00:34:26 process, but they do hope to change this process for others. As you'll recall, Rena was the 14-year-old from Victoria, BC, who, in 1997, was lured under a bridge by a gang of teenagers and attacked. One of them felt guilty and called it off. And as Rena walked herself home, bruised and bloodied, she was followed by two of the teens who then dragged her to the water and murdered her. These two teens were 15-year-old Kelly Allard and 16-year-old Warren Glawatsky. They were both found guilty of second-degree murder.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Warren Glawatsky was sentenced to life in prison, served 13 years, and was released on full parole in 2010. He was, by all accounts, sincerely remorseful, and his release was supported by Rena's family. Kelly Allard, though, is a completely different story. She was defiant, remorseless, caused problems in prison, and got pregnant to her boyfriend. He was out of a nearby prison on day parole, and she was granted a private family visit with him or a conjugal visit. She had her baby in early 2017 and then went back to the parole board saying her baby had

Starting point is 00:35:56 given her a new outlook on life. She was granted day parole in November of 2017. This month, it was announced that she'd been granted extended day parole and overnight leave. She still lives in a halfway house with her toddler, but she's progressively being given more freedoms, leading to her inevitable release. It's now been 22 years since Rena's murder. I certainly hope that she is sincere and will go on to live a normal life, at least for the sake of her child.

Starting point is 00:36:32 Well, that is it for this episode. It was researched by Anya Best and me, with audio editing by We Talk of Dreams. As I said, I'll be back with my next episode on September the 15th. It's a two-parter and is one of my most requested cases yet, so be sure to look out for it. I will see you then.

Canadian True Crime - Case Updates and Reflections 2019

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