Canadian True Crime - The Murder of Helen Betty Osborne—Part 3

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

[Part 3 of 3]  In 1971, Indigenous high school student Helen Betty Osborne was abducted  and brutally murdered near The Pas, Manitoba.When Betty’s body was found hours later at nearby Cle...arwater Lake, it was clear she had been the victim of a heinous crime. But it would take many, many years for the truth of what really happened to Betty to come to light—ultimately exposing the depths of racial injustice in the small town.Crisis Line for Indian Residential School SurvivorsFor CRISIS SUPPORT 24/7 call 1-800-721-0066Current unsolved #MMIWG cases from The Pas and surrounding areas:Amanda Sophia Bartlett, 18Elizabeth Mae Dorion, 44Josephine Martin, 58Kendara Ballantyne, 18Also: Morris Linklater, 18 year old male went missing in September of 2020Take Action - No More Stolen SistersRead the 2021 campaign guideMore resourcesReport of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry of ManitobaRead the full reportKey sections: Historical Overview, Treaty Rights, Helen Betty OsborneCanadian True Crime donates monthly to help those facing injustice.This month we have donated to:Indian residential school survivors societyCredits:Research and writing, narration, sound design: Kristi LeeSpecial thanks to Charlie from CrimelinesAudio editing: We Talk of Dreams Disclaimer voiced by the host of TrueFull list of credits and information sourcesSee the applicable page for each episode at canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too.
Starting point is 00:00:19 Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Canadian True Crime is a completely independent production, funded mainly through advertising. The podcast often has coarse language and disturbing content. It's not for everyone. Where we left off, it was the end of September 1986, 15 years after the murder of Helen Betty Osborne. reviewed and reopened with a new strategy that included wiretaps and a media blitz,
Starting point is 00:01:30 several key witnesses came forward that led to the arrest of two of the four suspects. Lee Colgan, who'd borrowed his father's Chrysler that night, and Dwayne Johnston, the one in the motorcycle gang who was also known for his prejudice against Indigenous people. But there were still two left that there wasn't enough evidence to arrest. James Houghton, Lee Colgan's childhood friend who lived across the street, and Norman Manger, who by all reports was so drunk that night that he had very little idea what was going on. So when Lee Colgan said he would give the full story to the RCMP in exchange for full immunity, the Crown had a difficult decision to make. There still wasn't much they could do with the forensic evidence because of technology,
Starting point is 00:02:15 but actual eyewitness testimony could change everything. When it came to the abduction, brutal assault and murder of Betty Osborne, was it worth giving Lee Colgan told the RCMP his version of what happened that Friday night, 15 years earlier. He said that at about 8pm, he borrowed his father's car, that white 1967 two-door Chrysler with number plate BN5342. Lee said he picked up his childhood friend James Houghton and Norman Manger, and they bought some beer and cruised around for a while. After finishing the beer, they decided to break into a friend's apartment to get some wine. By the early hours of the next morning, the men found themselves looking for something else to do, and they showed up at the dance at the Legion, where they apparently drank beer with some other men in the washroom. As you'll remember, Betty Osbourne was also at that same dance at the
Starting point is 00:03:33 Legion that night, but there's no evidence that they ran into each other. When the three men were done at the dance, they returned to the Chrysler and planned to cruise the streets again. This time, James Houghton drove the car, Norman Manger sat beside him in the front passenger seat, and Lee Colgan sat in the back seat on the driver's side. They soon came across 18-year-old Dwayne Johnston, and James pulled over the car to let him in. Because it was a two-door car, Norman had to get out of the front passenger seat and then push the seat forward so Dwayne could climb into the back seat next to Lee. Lee told the RCMP that he had never met anyone who hated
Starting point is 00:04:20 Indigenous peoples more than Dwayne Johnston, and as they drove away, the four men then formed a common plan to find an Indigenous girl to party with, ply with alcohol, and have sex with, whether consensually or not. As the Chrysler cruised the downtown area, they identified a target. A lone Indigenous woman was walking by herself down the street, not far away from the dance at the Legion. It was, of course, 19-year-old Helen Betty Osborne. Lee had attended the same high school as her, but there was no indication that any of them knew who she was. Lee would not say whose idea it was to stop and try and pick her
Starting point is 00:05:07 up, but the facts were that James Houghton was the one driving, the one who applied the brakes and pulled the car up next to her. Lee said it was immediately clear that Betty was not interested in going with the men. She outright refused. All four of them took their turns in trying to persuade her to change her mind, but she wouldn't budge. Betty Osborne did not want a bar of it. But Dwayne Johnston, the 18-year-old motorcycle club member who was known for bullying the Indigenous kids at school, was not taking no for an answer. From the back of the Chrysler, Duane told Norman to get out of the car. Norman vacated the front passenger seat, which allowed Duane to grab Betty and then shove her in the back seat
Starting point is 00:06:00 next to Lee Colgan. He and Norman jumped back in and the car pulled away. 19-year-old Betty had been forcibly abducted and was now highly vulnerable in the middle of the back seat of a two-door car with Lee Colgan on one side and Dwayne Johnston on the other. on one side and Dwayne Johnston on the other. Lee continued with his story. James drove the Chrysler out of town towards Clearwater Lake, planning to stop at his family holiday cottage which was on the way. It was November and he knew no one was home. The entire 24-kilometre drive, Betty was assaulted sexually and physically in the back seat of the car, with both Lee and Dwayne groping at her and ripping her blouse. She must have been feeling unimaginable terror at this point, but would continue to fight back fiercely throughout the whole attack. throughout the whole attack. Once they got to the Houghton cottage, Betty was dragged out of the car and Dwayne Johnston started beating her with his hands and feet. Lee Colgan admitted that he was a partial participant in this beating and the other two men may have been also, but he couldn't
Starting point is 00:07:21 say for sure. What he did remember was that they largely stood around drinking and watching. None of them did or said anything to stop the attack. And Betty never gave up fighting. She was screaming and protesting so loudly that the men suddenly became concerned that others in the area might be able to hear her. They decided to leave James' family cottage and drive somewhere else. They forced Betty back into the Chrysler, and James Houghton got back behind the wheel again and continued to Clearwater Lake. They stopped at the area known as the pump house, and Dwayne got out of the car again, pulling Betty out after him and dumping her on the ground.
Starting point is 00:08:13 Lee said he remained in the car with Norman and James, drinking, and they could hear banging against the side and rear of the car, which he assumed was Betty being beaten. against the side and rear of the car, which he assumed was Betty being beaten. He said that Norman was cowering under the dashboard of the car, heavily intoxicated by this point. After about five or ten minutes, the banging stopped, and according to Lee, James Houghton opened the door to get out of the car, which caused the interior light to come on and partially illuminate the ground outside. Lee said, quote, I got a fast glimpse of her and I don't think she had many clothes left on, but he said he believed she was still alive at that point. After a few more minutes, he said Dwayne Johnston
Starting point is 00:09:12 returned to the car, leaving James Houghton outside, alone with Betty. Dwayne found a screwdriver inside the car and returned back to the scene. Lee maintained he stayed inside the car with Norman, but he couldn't or wouldn't say what was happening outside the car with Dwayne and James or what was happening to Betty during this time. All he knew was that it was his father's car and he now wanted to go home. Lee said he climbed over into the vacated driver's seat and turned the car around as though to leave. Lee claimed he called out to James and Dwayne to let them know he was leaving. He waited and when they didn't come over, he called out a second time. This time he heard one of them say, just a minute.
Starting point is 00:10:06 When Dwayne and James returned to the car, one of them, Lee couldn't recall who, stated, she's dead. The evidence showed that Betty had been stabbed some 56 times. Lee Colgan told the RCMP that as he drove the Chrysler back to town, someone wiped off the screwdriver and threw it from the car. As you'll remember, this screwdriver was the second one found during the search of the highway. The wipe job hadn't been very good because it still had visible blood on it. In any event, Lee claimed that when they got back to the paw, he and James went back to the dance at the Legion and stayed there for another 30 minutes. This part would be disputed because it
Starting point is 00:10:59 was believed that the dance was likely over by this time. Lee said that when he and James parted ways that night, they agreed to keep it quiet. And the next morning, Lee cleaned up the Chrysler, washing blood off the back seat. He recalled noticing a small stain there that he didn't clean. Lee told investigators that over the next few weeks, the four men made a pact never to speak about Betty's murder. And that was his story. Based on Lee Colgan's information, James Houghton was arrested in March of 1987. He was 39 years old by that point.
Starting point is 00:11:48 But when it came to the final suspect, Norman Manger, the RCMP weren't sure how to proceed. They believed Lee's story that Norman was so intoxicated that night that he really didn't participate in the murder. They determined he was present, but in a drunken state. But investigators noted that Norman was at least responsible for participating in Betty's forceful abduction. After all, he had to get out of the car to let Dwayne out, and he would have had to wait while Dwayne pulled Betty out before putting the seat back and getting back in.
Starting point is 00:12:26 Norman Manger might not have participated in her murder, but he was at least involved in her forceful abduction. But on the other hand, if charges were laid on that basis, Norman could have argued that his level of intoxication meant he wasn't able to form the necessary intent to commit the crime of abduction. So thinking it could get messy, the RCMP decided not to lay charges, but hoped that Norman would help them by testifying as an eyewitness. So finally, 16 years after Helen Betty Osborne's murder, there were arrests. But for her family, it wasn't justice. Only two of the four people accused of murdering her would be going on trial.
Starting point is 00:13:14 And perhaps worse than that, the Osborne family, once a large, bustling family with 12 children, had slowly but surely fallen apart. Betty was the eldest child, and her murder and the bungled investigation led to the breakdown of her parents' marriage. Decades later, Norway House Cree Nation Band counsellor Darlene Osborne, also the wife of Betty's first cousin John, spoke about the family's slide into dysfunction. In 2019, she told David Ridgen of CBC podcast Someone Knows Something that Betty's younger brothers and sisters became very angry. Quote, ended up in and out of jail because they didn't know how to deal with their sister's death. Because there was no help for them at all. Nobody paid any attention to them. Nobody cared. Darlene said Betty's mother, Justine Osborne, did her best to raise her kids by herself.
Starting point is 00:14:19 Quote, and she was so kind and so forgiving. Can you imagine how she used to feel at the end of the day and it was time for her to rest? She always had Helen Betty on her mind. And it didn't help that Betty's family were not kept up to date on what was happening with the investigation. It would come out later that the RCMP had not maintained contact with Betty's family. After some initial contact with Norway House Cree Nation in the months after Betty's body was found, her mother would report that she didn't hear a thing from them for another 16 years, and they only contacted her to tell her about the arrests. A later inquiry would find that despite the
Starting point is 00:15:06 remoteness of Norway House, there was no reason for Betty's family to have not been informed about the progress or lack of progress of the investigation. In that same Someone Knows Something episode, Betty's friend Marion Sissonis was asked how she fared after her friend's murder. Marion was the one who told the story about running away from residential school with Betty and then hearing wolves and having to decide what was the lesser evil. After Betty's murder, Marion said she started drinking heavily because no one would listen to them about what was going on. We know that when people are hurting and don't have an outlet for their pain, they often turn to hazardous substance use as a temporary solution to help them forget.
Starting point is 00:15:57 Marion said that things came to a head one night after Betty's murder. She was in a cafe in the poor when some white men came in and started eyeing her up, making racist, insulting comments about Indigenous girls and insinuating that they were going to get her. Marion decided then and there that she was done with the poor. She just couldn't do it anymore. She asked to be sent back home, and apparently she wasn't the only one. Quote, None of us came back for Betty's funeral. I never went back to the poor. Brings too many bad memories. By the time James Houghton and Dwayne Johnston went on trial in 1987, the high-profile case had inspired much discussion about double standards when it came to investigating the cases involving missing
Starting point is 00:16:52 and murdered Indigenous women and girls. And this was illustrated in court as early as jury selection. In first-degree murder trials, the prosecution and the defense are each allowed to strike 20 potential jurors from the jury pool without giving any kind of explanation as to why. So when it came to this trial, of the pool of 54 potential jurors, six were indigenous and all six were struck from the pool by the lawyer of Dwayne Johnston. And all six were struck from the pool by the lawyer of Dwayne Johnston, the person believed to be the main instigator of the attack against Betty Osborne, and the one known for bullying Indigenous kids at school. And while it sounds like racial discrimination, they're allowed to get away with it, and that's how the system was designed.
Starting point is 00:17:46 There are now movements in criminal justice reform circles to end these peremptory challenges, meaning that the only way lawyers will be able to strike a juror is if they provide cause, an explanation as to why. In any event, when it came to Betty Osborne's trial, Dwayne Johnston's defence team had made sure that there would be no Indigenous people on the jury. The deck was stacked before the trial even started. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.
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Starting point is 00:18:48 Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis
Starting point is 00:19:18 company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Hi everyone. Today we're talking passion projects that turn into careers. A topic that obviously resonates quite a bit with me. In collaboration with the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative,
Starting point is 00:20:03 I want to introduce you to someone who took his passion for cannabis, turned it into a career and is now an industry trailblazer. This is Nico Soziak. He's the Chief Financial Officer of Canara Biotech, a prominent producer based in Montreal. Nico, I know that you've had a passion for cannabis for quite a few years, but you seem a lot younger than what I was expecting. I have to know how and when you got into the cannabis business. Yeah, absolutely. I look younger, but I'm aging by the day. But no, I'm 35 years old.
Starting point is 00:20:36 I got into cannabis about five years ago. I started with Canara. But you were a consumer before that. Yeah, I've been a consumer. I had friends in the legacy side of the business and watched what they did. I tried the different strains and genetics, watched how they grew, really found a passion for cannabis and the products. But my professional career is an accountant. So while I had a passion for cannabis, I was also a straight-A student.
Starting point is 00:21:03 Wow. And then Canada decided to legalize cannabis. And that was when I was like, okay, this is kind of my calling. I have to try to figure out how do I can get into the industry. And Canara had just became a public company. I joined them in April 2019 and built the finance department here at Canara and worked with the founder. And at one point, I was given the keys to that. And now I'm here today. Wow, that's such a cool story. So how do you feel about being called a trailblazer in the legal market now? It's an honor. I've looked up to many trailblazers in this industry today that come from the legacy side that went to legal. I'm happy to be part of that.
Starting point is 00:21:44 today that come from the legacy side that went to legal, you know, I'm happy to be part of that. Actually, I wanted to ask you about the legacy market. How did you incorporate it into operations on the legal side? I don't pretend that the cannabis market just got created in 2017, right? For me, legacy means that everyone that's been working, all the businesses that have been in the industry pre-legalization. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel in terms of thinking I know what consumers want. There's been an industry that's been built for many, many, many years. So it's all the ideas and creations that were pre-legalization figuring out how do we evolve that into the legal side with all the regulatory frameworks. What would you say is the best part of working in the legal market? Knowing that your product is clean, knowing what you're consuming.
Starting point is 00:22:27 We're ensuring quality. We're ensuring the price. I think we're ahead of other industries. Okay, so final question. What gets you excited to go to work every day? This is my dream. This is my passion. I get excited.
Starting point is 00:22:41 Work doesn't feel like work for me. When you're creating things that you dream about, I give the idea to the team. The team is able to execute different innovations. That's what really gets me excited. Thanks for listening to this Trailblazers story, brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAST Creative. If you like the trail Niko Soziak is blazing, you will love what's happening in legal cannabis. Visit ocs.ca slash trailblazers to learn more. Lee Colgan, then 34 years old, testified against Dwayne Johnston and James Houghton at their trial. He testified that the four men decided to pick up an Indigenous girl that night
Starting point is 00:23:32 because they considered her to be less likely to complain than a white girl. But Lee's testimony at trial was slightly different to the story he'd originally told investigators, and it all had to do with the final attack against Betty at the pump house, the part involving the screwdriver. In both versions of his story, Lee said that Dwayne dragged Betty out of the car and started assaulting her, resulting in banging noises against the car, which the other three men could hear as they continued to drink inside. Here's where the story changed.
Starting point is 00:24:11 In Lee's initial version of events, he said that when the banging noises stopped, James got out of the car and went over to Dwayne. And a short time later, Dwayne returned to the car by himself, grabbed a screwdriver, and left again. This version of the story implied that the reason James got out of the car was to join Dwayne in the attack. But at trial, Lee testified that it was only when Dwayne came to get the screwdriver that James got out of the car, and the only reason he did get out was to stop Dwayne from hurting Betty any further. Although it was only a small change, it clearly benefited James Houghton, Lee's good friend from childhood who lived across the road. The circumstances around how this change came about would be revealed later on.
Starting point is 00:25:16 Also to testify at trial was Norman Manger, then 41 years old. As you'll remember, his original alibi was that he was passed out in the washroom of a hotel that night, and he had consistently maintained that he was too intoxicated to remember anything that happened, he wouldn't even admit to being in the car. But right before the trial started, Norman had a change of heart and admitted this was false. In another statement to the RCMP, he essentially said he was very drunk that night, but he ended up at the dance and then somehow ended up going for a ride with three other guys and even more liquor. He said he knew he was in the front seat on the passenger side, but he didn't recall the car stopping to pick up Betty. The next thing he knew was when he saw her body being pulled through a snowbank. This was his testimony at trial. Quote,
Starting point is 00:26:10 It was dark and I had this terrible feeling of, oh my God, what's happened here? I got this awful fear and I covered my ears or something and tried not to think about what was happening. tried not to think about what was happening. When it came to the two defendants, James Houghton, then 39, and Dwayne Johnston, 34, their wall of silence was still very much standing. While that 14-year-old witness had overheard Dwayne talking about the murder at a party, no-one had ever reported hearing a peep from James. The RCMP had been
Starting point is 00:26:48 unsuccessful at getting either man to talk, and neither would be testifying in their own defence. The only thing the jury had to go off about James' involvement was Lee Colgan's testimony, which seemed to have been rejigged to show his friend's intentions in the best possible light. But even still, it was James who drove the Chrysler when they picked up Betty. It was James who drove it to his family's cottage where Betty was first assaulted, and it was James who drove the car to the pump house. And according to Lee's testimony, who drove the car to the pump house. And according to Lee's testimony,
Starting point is 00:27:29 Betty was still alive when James got out of the car at the pump house. And even though Lee now asserted that it was just to try and stop Dwayne from attacking her, the fact was that when both men returned to the car, Betty was dead. Only James and Dwayne knew the truth of what happened during that time, and neither of them were talking. Clear photographs of the crime scene would have been helpful here. As you'll recall, multiple first officers on scene spotted two sets of footprints, one set on each side of the drag marks where Betty's body was transported
Starting point is 00:28:06 into the final place she was found in the bush. At trial, those officers continued to assert they saw two sets of footprints, but without clear photos to show the jury, the evidence was not as strong. And even if they were able to show photos and match James and Dwayne to each set of footprints, it only proved that James helped conceal the body. That said, it would be noted that Lee's story never changed when it came to Dwayne being the main instigator of the crime. And because Dwayne refused to provide his side of the story or implicate anyone else, Lee's version of events remained completely unchallenged.
Starting point is 00:28:55 The all-white jury curated by Dwayne Johnston's lawyer found him guilty of second-degree murder. He was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 10 years. When it came to James Houghton, the jury found him not guilty of murder. James was completely acquitted. Jurors in Canada aren't allowed to discuss their deliberations,
Starting point is 00:29:23 but it's likely because James' involvement in Betty's actual murder hadn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There were no witnesses against him except for Lee, who always maintained that Dwayne was the primary aggressor. And while today a jury could have found James guilty on a lesser charge, like abduction or assault. This wasn't an option at the time. The Crown was not allowed to group charges together, so if the most serious charge was murder, the lesser charges weren't allowed to be tried at the same time. So when James was found not guilty of murder, the Crown did have the option to try again on the lesser charges, but nothing was done. At a later inquiry, the Crown would be asked why it chose
Starting point is 00:30:14 not to proceed, and the response was that they didn't even consider it. When someone is acquitted of murder, it's just not the done thing to go back and try lesser offences, they said. But when asked when this practice started, how it became not the done thing, they wouldn't be able to provide an answer. The following year, 1988, the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry was commissioned. The inquiry mentioned throughout these episodes. It was one of the first to examine the racism experienced by Indigenous people in Manitoba's justice system. At the time, Manitoba was the province that had the highest proportion of Indigenous people in its population. For at least nine months, Judge Murray Sinclair,
Starting point is 00:31:07 Manitoba's first Indigenous judge, and Judge Elvin Hamilton of the Court of Queen's Bench travelled across Manitoba to gather information for the inquiry. They received more than 800 submissions from residents, many of which described incidents of racism and discrimination in the province. The inquiry was actually commissioned to examine two murder investigations, Helen Betty Osborne, of course, and the case of J.J. Harper, a respected Indigenous leader and Oji Kri man from Wasagamak First Nation, who was shot and killed by Winnipeg Police Constable Robert Cross in 1988. An internal investigation had originally ruled it an accident, with no negligence on the part of the constable or the RCMP. But after strong public outcry,
Starting point is 00:32:02 the case was included in the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry and it was concluded that Constable Cross had used excessive force. When it came to how Helen Betty Osborne's murder was investigated, the inquiry found that racism, sexism, neglect and indifference played a significant role. It was determined that the RCMP would have exerted more effort if Betty wasn't Indigenous, and this was a key reason for it taking more than 15 years to bring the case to court. Betty's mother Justine Osborne testified about her experience, and so too did Betty's boyfriend Cornelius Big Biggity, and her friends, Annalise Dumas, Eva Simpson, and George Ross. The inquiry also heard testimony from witnesses, anonymous
Starting point is 00:32:54 informants, RCMP members, local townspeople, and more. The RCMP would be asked to explain why they took two different approaches, depending on who was white and who was Indigenous, playing fast and loose with legal requirements like the one that required them to ask a parent or guardian for permission when interviewing a minor. 17-year-old Cornelius Biggity. And when it came to 18-year-old Lee Colgan, a legal adult who was a prime suspect in the crime, why did investigators decide it was necessary to ask his father for permission when it wasn't even required? And not only that, but that special out-to-the-woods isolation treatment was pointed out as well. It only happened to Betty's Indigenous friends and Norman Manger, who was also Indigenous. None of the other three suspects had been questioned this way. No one from the RCMP could answer these questions, but various members essentially said they didn't even realise that they were treating the two different groups
Starting point is 00:34:05 differently. It's just the way they always did things. Lee Colgan's testimony at the inquiry was a key moment because he admitted that his version of events had changed between the preliminary inquiry and the trial. After the preliminary hearing, when Lee gave his version of events, the same version he'd originally told the RCMP, he was contacted by a friend of James Houghton's, who asked him to attend a meeting with James's lawyer, John Schofield. Lee testified that at that meeting, he was given the impression that his testimony was damaging to James' case, and if he could make it less damaging before the trial
Starting point is 00:34:54 started, it would benefit James. Lee's testimony at the preliminary hearing had obviously implied that James got out of the car to join Dwayne in assaulting Betty, and he waited while Dwayne went back to the car to get the screwdriver, and then it was only after Betty was dead that both men returned to the car. This testimony essentially placed James Houghton as a second participant in the final attack with the screwdriver, the attack that left Betty dead. Now because James was Lee's good childhood friend, that meeting with the lawyer had an impact on him. James's lawyer John Scherfield denied at the inquiry that he suggested Lee change his testimony. He claimed that it was Lee's idea. Lee said he would
Starting point is 00:35:46 offer up additional information, but was concerned it would nullify his immunity. Scherfield testified that he told Lee his requirement for immunity was to tell the truth of what happened, so if he wanted to provide additional facts in his trial testimony, then it wouldn't impact his immunity. It should be noted that the inquiry cleared John Schofield of anything that compromised legal ethics. But after the meeting, Lee Colgan wrote and signed a note to the lawyer, and this note was published as part of the inquiry. It read, quote, To the best of my recollection in the matter concerning the death of Helen Betty Osborne, I'm not sure who drove the car from Jim Houghton's cabin to the pump house at Clearwater Lake.
Starting point is 00:36:36 I'd also like to state that Jim Houghton remained in the car until after Dwayne Johnston got the screwdriver and left the car. Thinking about what Dwayne might be doing, I soon asked Jim Helton to see what was happening and if he could stop him. So in this version, not only had James gotten out to stop the attack, but Lee had asked him to. Now what's interesting is that two weeks before the trial Lee decided to tell the RCMP about the meeting he had with the lawyer but he also told them that he decided not to change his testimony. But he still did. He essentially testified at trial that the only
Starting point is 00:37:22 reason James Houghton got out of the car at the pump house was because he wanted to stop Dwayne from attacking Betty with the screwdriver. At the inquiry, Lee confirmed that he changed his testimony to help his friend. Quote, I wanted him to look good. When it came to the other three suspects, they were all asked to testify at the inquiry as well. Norman Manger, then in his early 40s, told the inquiry that he was there in the car that night, but he had no recollection of anything beyond that. He said all that he had learned from the night was from other people and rumours. The inquiry found that
Starting point is 00:38:06 his testimony about being too intoxicated to remember much was consistent with Lee Colgan's testimony. Dwayne Johnston, then in his mid-30s, was called to testify as well, but he outright refused. Again, his inaction left Lee Colgan's version of events completely unchallenged. And while James Houghton, then in his early 40s, did agree to testify, or rather he was compelled by the BC courts, it was very frustrating for everyone involved. He was observed by the Winnipeg press to be chewing gum and appeared bored or irritated. And while he admitted there was a possibility he may have been at the murder scene that night, he personally didn't think so and had no memory of it. James was asked to explain why Lee Colgan's testimony placed him in the car, and his response was that he didn't know why Lee said that.
Starting point is 00:39:10 Quote, I'm not saying he's untruthful. I don't remember anything of that night. When asked if he might have been drunk that night, James shrugged and said maybe he had passed out, but he just didn't know. Basically, James Helton's testimony was nothing more than a repetition of, I have no recollection, for more than four hours. Judge Murray Sinclair didn't mince words when he spoke to James. Quote, The inquiry report was published in 1991 with the recommendation that the Crown charge James Helton with abduction and assault.
Starting point is 00:40:08 But again, no action was taken. The inquiry concluded that this is what happened. All four men decided to pick up an Indigenous woman for sex. They approached Betty Osborne, and when she refused them, they abducted her. In the car, she was physically and sexually assaulted by at least Dwayne Johnston and Lee Colgan. They arrived at the Houghton Cottage where the beating continued, with Dwayne and possibly one or two others involved. After they drove to the pump house where Betty was murdered, Dwayne and James got out of the car. The two judges who formed the commission of inquiry stated they did not believe that it was Dwayne Johnston alone who murdered Betty at the pump house, dragged her into the bush and left her. Quote, we believe that at least one other person assisted
Starting point is 00:41:06 Johnston while he was out of the car at the pump house. The judges stopped short of naming that person. They also concluded that while Norman Manger may have been so intoxicated that he couldn't have formed the necessary intent for a criminal conviction, all four men were morally, if not legally, responsible for Betty Osborne's murder. Judge Sinclair and Judge Hamilton wrote in the report that in almost every aspect of the Canadian legal system, the treatment of Indigenous people is an international disgrace, and it was clear that Betty Osborne would not have been killed if she'd not been Indigenous. They wrote that the four men who took her to her death from the streets of the poor that night had gone looking for an Indigenous girl with whom to party.
Starting point is 00:42:00 They found Betty Osborne. Quote, This was a special intersection of racism and sexism, and it was directly responsible for the clear assumption the perpetrators had that their actions would be perceived as either justifiable or condoned. The inquiry report stated that when Betty refused to party and refused to have anything to do with the men, she was forcefully driven out of town and murdered. Quote, Those who abducted her showed a total lack of regard for her person or her rights as an individual. Those who stood by while the physical assault took place, while sexual advances were made, and while she was being beaten to death showed their own racism, sexism and indifference. Those who knew the story and remained silent must share their guilt. The inquiry report included 296 recommendations, ways Manitoba and the justice system could better protect Indigenous women and children from harm.
Starting point is 00:43:23 could better protect Indigenous women and children from harm. But while the recommendations were all good and well, actually implementing them would be a completely separate issue. And soon enough, Betty's family would have something else to be concerned about. Dwayne Johnston, the man who had never accepted responsibility for Betty's murder, would be heading into the final stretch of his 10-year parole ineligibility period. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats.
Starting point is 00:44:07 Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At around the same time that the inquiry was taking place, a book had been written on Betty's case called Conspiracy of Silence by journalist Lisa Priest. In 1991, when the inquiry's final report was released, CBC aired a two-hour TV miniseries of the same name based on that book.
Starting point is 00:44:48 Both served to increase awareness about what happened to Betty, the circumstances around her murder, and how the investigation was bungled. It also explored how many townspeople viewed the case as unimportant, simply because Betty was Cree. In the meantime, Dwayne Johnston continued to serve his prison sentence. He made every effort to appeal his conviction, but all were dismissed. He would need to wait until his 10-year parole eligibility period was up in 1997. Two years before that, he applied for day parole privileges, which would mean he'd be free to participate in the community during the day as long as he returned to the prison at night.
Starting point is 00:45:38 The parole board approved it. This greatly upset Betty's family, prompting her mother, Justine, her siblings, as well as other members of Norway House Cree Nation to organise a protest. After all, Lee Colgan's testimony named Dwayne Johnston as the main instigator of the brutal attack on Betty. He was known for his hatred of Indigenous people and he made no attempt to challenge Lee's version of the story or provide his own version. It's no wonder Betty's family were upset at the prospect of him being approved for day parole because it indicated a step towards being released on full parole. Betty's family staged an epic 800-kilometre walk for justice,
Starting point is 00:46:28 where a group of 200 people marched 800 kilometres south from Norway House Cree Nation to the city of Winnipeg. The journey took five days. As Michael Smith reported for Windspeaker News, quote, In an emotional scene, Justine Osborne, supported on both sides by her children and fellow marchers, broke down and cried while addressing the crowd. People, some weeping openly, stood in respect while she composed herself.
Starting point is 00:47:03 She said she was grateful to the public for supporting her family in this endeavour. After this protest and other public outcry, Dwayne Johnston's day parole was revoked. He would be eligible to apply again at a later date. The next year, 1996, Dwayne Johnston suddenly announced he wanted to participate in an Indigenous Healing Circle with Betty Osborne's family. A form of restorative justice, an Indigenous Healing Circle provides an opportunity for those who have been harmed, and those who take responsibility for that harm to communicate about and address their needs in the aftermath of a crime. It aims to be a unifying process that brings those on both sides together in an atmosphere of honesty, respect and concern.
Starting point is 00:47:58 And when an accused agrees to participate in a healing circle, it generally gives an indication that they're ready to take responsibility for what they did. According to reporting by Michael Smith of Windspeaker News, Dwayne said he wanted to create a sense of closure and assist Betty's family in their own healing process. Given that he'd refused to speak with law enforcement, he'd refused to testify at the trial or the inquiry, his willingness to speak directly to the Osborne family at that point was quite significant. Betty's sister, Cecilia Osborne, agreed to attend the healing circle on behalf of the family. She was accompanied by Indigenous leaders, including MPP Eric Robinson and Manitoba Grand Chief Phil Fontaine, in a journey to Ferndale Institution in British Columbia, where Duane was serving his sentence. At that healing circle, which took place over several different sessions, Duane Johnston effectively put most of the blame on James
Starting point is 00:49:06 Houghton's shoulders. He said that not only was James driving the car, but he was the one who beat Betty to death with his bare hands. Dwayne admitted to, quote, sexually molesting Betty, but insisted she wasn't raped. He was of course implying a distinction when it comes to penetration, but sexual assault is sexual assault. Dwayne went on to say he let Betty out of the car and she was immediately grabbed by James Houghton. Dwayne said he waited in the car with Lee Colgan and a very drunk Norman Manger. When Dwayne got out of the car with Lee, he believed Betty was dead. With Norman still in the car, Dwayne said that he, Lee and James took turns stabbing Betty's body with a screwdriver as part of a pact to ensure
Starting point is 00:50:02 they would never be able to identify the person responsible for taking her life. Duane said they also wanted to make it look like she'd been murdered by a, quote, berserk individual to deflect suspicion away from them. And that's also the reason why they removed her clothing, to make it look like she'd been raped as well. to make it look like she'd been raped as well. An article in The Province by Suzanne Fournier described how Dwayne had, quote, dropped his emotionless mask and smiled, his eyes filled with tears. The big bad biker was full of guilt and suffering.
Starting point is 00:50:42 He apologised for his role in Betty's death. Betty's sister Cecilia spoke with the paper about the healing circle, which included a sacred pipe ceremony and a private walk through the grounds with Dwayne. She said, quote, I was able to make him understand what it was like to lose an older sister. After the healing circle, the RCMP said they would interview Dwayne again, investigate his version of events and compare it with a fresh analysis of the forensic evidence to see if there was enough evidence for new charges. Cecilia said at a press conference, quote, obviously we Phil Fontaine agreed,
Starting point is 00:51:32 saying he wanted to see the most serious charges possible laid against those who escaped punishment and lied about their role in Betty's death. But as the time went on, and there was nothing else announced in the investigation, the Osborne family and their supporters grew wary. They had also been waiting for charges to be laid against James Houghton, a key recommendation that came out of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, but nothing was ever done about that either. It was just disappointment after disappointment, and the family came to believe
Starting point is 00:52:12 that the only reason Dwayne Johnston wanted the healing circle was to look good for his upcoming parole hearing. Cecilia Osborne told Windspeaker News that she did not believe Duane's story and that regardless of what he said, all four men still have blood on their hands. And even though it had by that point been 25 years since Betty's murder, her family was still filled with pain, anguish and anger and would not rest until all avenues for justice had been pursued. The next year, 1997, Dwayne requested day parole again and the Osborne family started protesting again and organising petitions to keep him in prison. protesting again and organising petitions to keep him in prison. Indigenous MPP Eric Robinson,
Starting point is 00:53:13 who was acting as a spokesperson for the family, explained that the protests weren't about day parole. It was about the next logical step that would come after that. Full parole. He clarified that the Osborne family had no problem with day parole because they realised that Dwayne Johnston needed to get on with his life, but argued it would be premature to give him full parole when the RCMP hadn't finished their follow-up after the healing circle. Out of the three parole board members, two of them voted for day parole. parole board members, two of them voted for day parole. The third, who voted against it, had a few concerns, saying that Duane required further treatment for anger management and substance use issues. The day parole went well and was extended, and then, seven months later, Duane applied for full parole, telling the board that he realised the severity of his crime. Quote,
Starting point is 00:54:08 I said I'm sorry a million times in the sweat lodge. He had apparently started an upholstery business in British Columbia while on day parole and stated he was ready to move on with his life. There were concerns that Dwayne's life was still unsettled. He was in the middle of a custody battle with his ex-wife and he didn't fully understand the violent tendencies underlying his behavior. But while one board member voted no, the other two voted yes to full parole, stating they considered his risk of re-offending to be manageable and not undue. So with a two to one vote, 43-year-old Dwayne Johnston was released on full parole. And then the RCMP announced they had officially closed the case of Helen Betty Osborne.
Starting point is 00:55:08 It was by that point 1999, and they said they'd spent the best part of two years reviewing the case files in light of Dwayne's version of events given at the Healing Circle. Ultimately, they determined that his story was not at all consistent with the evidence. It gave them nothing new to work with. Betty's family were devastated by this announcement for several reasons. Her sister, Cecilia, told CBC that she found out the investigation had been closed by watching CBC News, and the fact that the RCMP had not prioritised telling the family themselves was, quote, insulting. But she vowed to continue to fight for justice, fight for more charges to be laid in the case. Quote, we need some closure. In the same article, MPP Eric Robinson said there was a clear reason why there'd been no further changes laid. Quote,
Starting point is 00:56:11 As an article in Windspeaker on the announcement succinctly put, quote, after 27 years of investigation, the justice system has only managed to convict one man, now on parole, on a lesser charge of second-degree murder. It's granted complete immunity to a second man for his testimony against the first, it acquitted a third man of all charges, and failed to ever lay charges against the fourth suspect in the slaying. No wonder Betty Osborne's family were bitterly disappointed. In 2000, the Manitoba government finally apologised for mishandling the investigation into Helen Betty Osbourne's murder. According to reporting by Joan Tyone of Windspeaker, Manitoba Justice Minister Gord McIntosh directed his remarks to Cecilia Osbourne, Betty's sister.
Starting point is 00:57:27 born, Betty's sister. Quote, I wish to express my profound regret at the way the justice system as a whole responded to the death of Betty and to apologise for the clear lack of justice in her case. Cecilia graciously thanked the government for the apology. Family spokesperson Eric Robinson, who was by that point the Manitoba Aboriginal and Northern Affairs Minister, said the apology went a long way. Quote, Nobody's really ever apologised to this family for the pain and suffering that they've gone through over these last number of years. Right from 1971, there was hardly any dialogue, I'm talking about any level of justice here, to this family. At the same time, the Helen Betty Osborne Memorial Foundation was established as an active parliament to provide financial assistance to Indigenous students enrolled in post-secondary studies in Manitoba. students enrolled in post-secondary studies in Manitoba. The provincial government also established a $50,000 scholarship in Betty's name for Indigenous students who wanted to work in the
Starting point is 00:58:32 education field. Her sister Cecilia said, quote, My sister wanted to become a teacher. We are happy that her dreams will help others walk the path. are happy that her dreams will help others walk the path. That same year, a celebration of life was held on July 16th, the date that would have been Betty's 48th birthday. About 80 people attended a special ceremony for the unveiling of a large bronze commemorative plaque with Betty's picture on it at the former site of the Guy Hill Residential School, which has long since been closed. But there was always more to be done, and there were more questions being asked about why the Manitoba government was dragging its feet
Starting point is 00:59:21 on implementing the recommendations that came from the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry. An implementation commission had been created specifically to develop an action plan, but there was still not a lot of action, and the problem of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls was not going away. They were still going missing and still being murdered. And then, in March of 2008, tragedy struck the Osborne family again. One of Betty's younger brothers, 42-year-old Calvin John Osborne, was stabbed and beaten to death in Winnipeg. Calvin was active with the Helen Betty Osborne Memorial Foundation,
Starting point is 01:00:07 assisting at all the events aimed to raise awareness of what had happened. His loss was a shocking blow. A 56-year-old Canadian Navy vet would be charged with second-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 10 years. The reason why Helen Betty Osborne was in the poor in the first place was to become a teacher. She had a full plan, a mission, a vision. She had been prepared to do whatever she had to to get her teaching qualifications, including bravely moving hundreds of kilometers away from her home community to a place she knew would be dangerous for her people. But she wanted to shoulder the burden so she could return to Norway House as a teacher and ensure that no one else would ever have to leave the community to get their education.
Starting point is 01:01:06 Sadly, Betty would never get to see her vision come to life, but her home community made sure it was never forgotten. In 2004, Norway House Cree Nation announced the opening of the Helen Betty Osborne Inner New Education Resource Centre, a state-of-the-art facility and community hub. Cree students from preschool to grade 12 are taught about their own history and culture alongside the regular Manitoba school curriculum. And in 2008, the same year of Calvin Osborne's death, the Helen Betty Osborne Foundation launched a graphic novel called The Life of Helen Betty Osborne, written by Indigenous author David Robertson. While the
Starting point is 01:01:54 Conspiracy of Silence book and miniseries released in 1991 had raised much awareness, the graphic novel was designed to bring Betty's story to a whole new generation and educate young people about racism, sexism and indifference. In 2015, the book was updated and relaunched, and the author would reflect on Betty's legacy in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen. Quote, Most everyone I've met who was friends with her back then are in the education system. I just can't help but think they are in that field because of her. The impact of her death extended into becoming teachers, because that's what she wanted to be.
Starting point is 01:02:41 Betty Osbourne's murder was also instrumental to what would become a growing movement, because what happened to Indigenous people in the poor or even in the province of Manitoba was not unique. In the decades that followed, several reports had started to document the pattern of violence experienced by Indigenous women, girls, two-spirit and LGBTQIA plus folks in Canada, one of the first being Stolen Sisters, a 2004 report released by Amnesty International. By 2016, growing calls for a full-blown national inquiry into the problem were finally being heard, and an announcement was made. Three years after that, the final report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls
Starting point is 01:03:32 was released, describing it as a Canadian genocide, a national crisis. The report noted the historic mishandling of these cases, how they're met with indifference and how negative stereotypes often lead to Indigenous deaths and disappearances being investigated differently to other cases. And the result of this indifference is that not only do Indigenous people lose out when it comes to a right to justice, but it also allows predators like Robert Pickton to get away with killing unchecked for so long. The Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry Report had 231 calls for justice, which included major reforms to the justice system and policing to ensure these cases are addressed more seriously.
Starting point is 01:04:26 But the problem with these calls for justice and the nearly 300 recommendations that came out of the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry is that they are just that, calls and recommendations. Without a plan for action, they don't really amount to anything. They don't really amount to anything. And there was much discussion about the problem of this inaction in February of 2021, the 30th anniversary of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report. The Association of Manitoba Chiefs released a statement calling on provincial and federal governments to finally implement the recommendations, saying that meaningful attempts so far had been non-existent. The statement cited multiple recent examples that illustrated Indigenous peoples continued
Starting point is 01:05:19 to suffer more severe outcomes as a result of their involvement in the so-called justice system. And not only that, but they're still disproportionately arrested and incarcerated. The statement ended, quote, Because of the refusal and dithering of provincial and federal governments and bureaucrats, valuable time has been lost for First Nations to pursue their self-determination in the area of justice. 2021 also marked the 50th anniversary of the murder of Helen Betty Osborne, and on November 13th, several public events were organised in the port to commemorate the occasion, including a sunrise ceremony and a fire that burned the whole day in Betty's honour. Event organiser Renee Kastrikov of the Poor Family Resource Centre
Starting point is 01:06:13 told CTV News that not much had changed in the poor when it came to missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. She cited four current unsolved cases in and around the poor, including 18-year-old Kendara Ballantyne, who was last seen walking down Cathedral Avenue in the poor in July 2019. Her remains were found the next month, but almost three years later, not only is the case still unsolved, but her cause of death has never been released. 17-year-old Amanda Sophia Bartlett was last seen in Winnipeg in 1996, but it took 12 years and the help of Amnesty International to finally have her classified as a missing person, so the Winnipeg police could start looking for her. And today, Amanda is still missing. 44-year-old mother of three, Elizabeth Dorian, disappeared from a Manitoba commercial
Starting point is 01:07:14 fishing camp in 1999. According to the CBC, Elizabeth's family is no longer in contact with investigators and are not even sure if the case is open or closed. She's still missing. Candara, Amanda and Elizabeth are just three of an estimated 1,500 missing or murdered Indigenous women, girls and Two-Spirit people from across Canada that we know about. from across Canada that we know about. Another who went missing from the poor is 58-year-old Josephine Martin, a mother of seven who was last seen outside Giant Tiger in 2015. Her former partner, Indigenous rights advocate Percy Ballantyne, told CBC News that very little was said about her disappearance and neither the police nor the media showed much interest. Percy also described the inquiry report as gathering dust on the shelf. This was confirmed by former inquiry judge and former senator Murray Sinclair.
Starting point is 01:08:29 Quote, there is pushback from institutions within society, but in the same breath, he told CBC News that he wasn't surprised. In fact, it's exactly what he expected. After all, he had been the first Indigenous judge appointed in Manitoba, and while he'd grown accustomed to the racist backlash, he described the level of hate that emerged during the inquiry as being so great, it reminded him of the Ku Klux Klan. At one point, he was receiving death threats. death threats. When Murray Sinclair was asked why he wasn't surprised by that backlash and why he never expected things to change in his lifetime, he did not hold back. Too many think of Indigenous people as, quote, people who come from a violent, inferior, savage culture and therefore are not worth saving, so to speak. When it came to the Osborne family, Betty's niece Kimberly stepped up as family spokesperson, saying she was continuing her late mother Cynthia's work in keeping Betty's spirit alive.
Starting point is 01:09:49 In a statement published on Winnipeg.ca, Kimberly said she hopes that the next generation doesn't have to suffer the same way. Quote, I never got the chance to meet Betty, I wasn't even born yet, but I often wonder how different life would be if that night simply never happened. But she also said there was more to be done, because the factors that led to Betty's death are still a problem today. Indigenous people still live in fear of violence. The murders keep happening and the missing remain missing. Quote, that Helen Betty left behind. Our Indigenous women, girls, men, boys, two-spirit and gender-diverse communities deserve to feel safe.
Starting point is 01:10:30 In order for that to happen, people need to stand up and demand change. The murder of Helen Betty Osborne continues to have an impact today. Songs and poems have been written about her, the University of Winnipeg named a building after her, and her case has inspired multiple TV shows and books. Actual change when it comes to both attitudes and action, though, is still very slow. In fact, I've seen it as I've released this series. People have contacted me to refute
Starting point is 01:11:07 the findings of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, as though I'm some authority that needs to be set straight. Others want to correct me that residential school wasn't so bad, citing the opinion of their auntie's husband's father's friend who said so. Another person wanted me to know that it wasn't just thousands of Indigenous children in those unmarked graves. There were also some teachers and community members who got sick with smallpox. I mean, they shouldn't have been in those unmarked graves either. And I was also told that the Indigenous peoples in Canada didn't have it so bad compared to the others. Again, no one should have it bad. And absolutely, there are always outliers. Not every person at residential school was
Starting point is 01:11:53 miserable all the time, and some were not treated as badly as others. Nothing is ever black and white, and trying to argue that these outlier cases are proof that it wasn't so bad doesn't change the inquiry findings or help improve the situation. And outside of these random complaints, I also had a rather unpleasant interaction with a non-Indigenous community leader from the poor who took issue with a very obscure reference in one of our social media posts and in the same breath told me I was incorrect in reporting that schools were segregated in the poor at the time. When I pointed out that this was not consistent with the findings of the Aboriginal
Starting point is 01:12:38 Justice Inquiry, they backtracked and said, well the one school they attended was not segregated, They backtracked and said, well, the one school they attended was not segregated, before claiming that both sides were just trying to move forward and work together to change the environment. But I mean, logically, if that was their true intention, one would think that their efforts would be better spent doing something a bit more meaningful than sending terse messages to true crime podcasts and trying to argue about facts established in historic public inquiry. And yes, I'm very salty and I'm being a bit vague, but I wanted to illustrate that there is still a long way to go. And while it might seem hopeless, there is a role for all of us. We can stop waiting for the government and those in power to take
Starting point is 01:13:26 action and start demanding that they do. A campaign called No More Stolen Sisters was initiated last year to provide practical ways people on the ground can get involved. Published by Amnesty International Canada in consultation with Indigenous activists, the campaign provides a number of resources to help us grow our knowledge and understanding around this issue, with many helpful suggestions and action steps we can take. Please see the show notes for more information about the No More Stolen Sisters campaign. and Sisters campaign. Thanks for listening and special thanks to Charlie from Crimelines for her work on this case.
Starting point is 01:14:18 For the full list of resources, information sources and anything else you want to know about the podcast, visit the page for this episode at canadiantruecrime.ca. Visit the page for this episode at canadiantruecrime.ca. The podcast donates regularly to Canadian charitable organisations that help victims and survivors of injustice. This month, we have donated to the Indian Residential School Survivors Society, who provide essential services to survivors, their families, and those dealing with intergenerational traumas. See the show notes for more information. Thank you so much for your kind ratings, reviews, messages, and support. I'm very behind on replying, but I do read them all, so thank you. Thank you also to the host of True
Starting point is 01:14:59 for voicing the disclaimer, and We Talk of Dreams who composed the theme song. I'll be back soon with a new Canadian true crime story. See you then. Thank you.

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