Casefile True Crime - Anonymous Host first interview (Unfiltered podcast)

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

Follow and subscribe to Unfiltered on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.  In 2021, I sat down and had a series of hour-long phone calls with the anonymous host of Casefile, or “Casey,” as he’s been dubbed by fans of the show. At the time, Casey was recovering from an unexplained medical issue. Our chats reminded me of the power of real and raw conversations, and it paved the way for ‘Unfiltered,’ the new Casefile Presents podcast where guests from all walks of life join me for a conversation about justice and transformation. In our first episode and his first-ever in-depth interview, Casey generously opens a window into parts of his own story that he’s never before shared publicly. Follow Casey on Instagram: instagram.com/caseys.snaps

I am excited to announce the launch of Unfiltered, the latest podcast from Casevile Presents. Unfiltered has been in the works for a long time now. It will be hosted by Rikello Bryan, whose extraordinary podcast, Silent Waves, was the first show released on the Casevile Presents platform. After getting to know Rikell and seeing how talented she is at interviewing people from all walks of life, I knew that she had to have her own conversation style podcast, and thus unfiltered was born, a podcast that provides an exploration into human experiences. No topic is off limits. These raw and honest conversations will open you

up to a range of perspectives and invite you to make up your own mind. Although I don't host the show, unfiltered has several tie-ins with case file. The first episode features the first in-depth interview I've ever given. It's a long chat, and you'll get to know some things about me that I've never spoken about publicly. Recurkel is the only person I felt comfortable having this conversation with. The second episode stars two key witnesses from Case 78 of Case File, the Janabi family. Former US soldier, Justin White, and his former sergeant, John Deem, joined Rikkel to speak about their experiences in war and what it was

like to blow the whistle on war crimes. Future episodes feature a diverse range of guests from all walks of life. Some are connected to case file episodes or one of our case file presents series, while others are completely unrelated. But all feature real stories about justice and transformation. The first two episodes are available now wherever you get your podcasts. All subsequent episodes will be released weekly. Stay tuned to hear my interview with Raquel in full, then be sure to head to the unfiltered feed to listen to the second episode. Hit the follow button for unfiltered

so you don't miss an episode. In 2021, I sat down and had a series of hour-long phone calls with the anonymous host of Case File, or Casey, as I call him. At the time, Casey was recovering from an unexplained medical issue. Our chats reminded me of the power of real and raw conversations, and it paved the way for unfiltered. The new case file presents podcasts where guests from all

walks of life join me for a conversation about justice and transformation. In our first episode, I'm joined by Casey himself, as he generously opens a window into parts of his own story that he's never before shared, in the hopes his experience might reach someone who needs to hear it. Thank you for joining me, Rikelo Bryan, for our new show, Unfiltered. I remember the first podcast I listened to. It was serial by this American life and I was instantly captivated by the storytelling. From that point on I was hooked to podcasting the medium. Can you tell me about your introduction into podcasting and if there was a show that

you got hooked on way back when you started listening? Yeah, so I do remember the first podcast I ever listened to. It was actually a music one, nothing to do with storytelling. It was in depth conversations with bands and musicians that I like. I remember one of my good friends who I was living with at the time, the first mentioned podcast to me. I'd never heard of the word before. This was in 2009.

Obviously podcasting has exploded since then. Back in 2009, the options were much more limited. But I came across this podcast from alternative press, and they had interviews with bands against me, bring me the horizon, saves the day, many others, bands that I listened to. I'd never heard anything like it, because they were those in-depth conversations that

went for hours and I was just so engaged by it and so drawn into the conversations. It was so interesting listening to the bands that you like and because usually you're limited to a Q&A and a magazine or sound bites or little clips here and there. Never had the chance to experience those in-depth conversations and I was instantly drawn in. So that was my first introduction. Then my next big love of podcasting came a few years after that. I still remember the fight. It was Nick Diaz vs BJ Penn. It was back in 2011. Is this UFC we're talking about? UFC, yes, yes, two fantastic fighters. And after the fight, Nick Diaz won,

and he was being interviewed by UFC commentator Joe Rogan. Of course. And Diaz yells into the mic, trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day. And I remember thinking, oh, does Joe Rogan have a podcast? That's cool. I should maybe check that out too.

And so, been listening ever since then. So again, obviously a conversational podcast, nothing to do with storytelling or documentaries or anything like that. Those were my first two podcasting loves. And this Joe Rogan you were introduced to Joe Rogan. When was this a time frame? Was this 20, 2000 ends? I actually, I remember the fight. I looked it up. It's 2011. So, 2011 years ago. Wow. And now, Case File was started in 2016. So there are a few years between

You fully in love with Joe Rogan for example his podcast and then talk to me about the inspiration behind you starting case file That's what got me hooked into podcasting and I just loved it so much and it was always in the back of my mind and I just loved it so much. And it was always in the back of my mind. Cool, I started a podcast and obviously my first ideas revolved around what I was listening to. So interview style, conversation, or throwing up ideas of sport podcasts, music podcasts, and certainly nothing like case file. But ultimately I sort of knew that I'm not really suited to that style, like what you're doing.

You're a fantastic host and interviewer. I mean, not so much. So I knew I wanted to do it, but I just didn't have a clear vision, a clear idea. There was a period there where Joe would have guests on and it was pretty much every episode where he was telling his guests start a podcast and this would have been around 2014-15 before case-file, so 2015, so. And he was just drilling it into the guest and that just, I'd always had it in the back of my mind that I wanted to do it, but then just listening to that, it just became stronger

and stronger. And we'll just remember thinking, well, why can't I? I can do it. And then I again looked at it seriously. Like, what can I do? What can I offer? There's got to be something that I can start. And I think it was around that time when serial might have been a few years before.

I'm not exactly, I can't remember exactly when. Serial was released in 2014 2014 there you go. So yeah, certainly around that time So I was late to the party with serial or I didn't listen to that to 2015 But obviously was immediately taken in by the storytelling and that documentary style of podcasts And that was a whole new thing for me because I've just been listening to the conversation interview style podcast. I remember thinking, wow, that's amazing. So that's when my mind started ticking over.

This old really loved to do something like that. I think I could offer something there. So then I was playing around with the ideas, like, what would I do? Would I do that documentary investigative style? But also I got hooked onto another podcast, hardcore history somewhere around that time as well, maybe a bit before by Dan Carlin, which is a single narrator, just Dan Carlin, and just telling you a story essentially. There's no interview clips, there's no anything else. It's just him speaking, telling you a story.

And that as well is so engaging and just pulls you in and you're picturing what you're listening to, you think you're there. That is such that's so captivating as well. And so there was a couple of options there. I had that serial style investigative approach that I was thinking and I had the Dan Carl and Harcourt history. And then what happened is I suffered a serious injury sporting injury, that serious knee injury.

It was an ACL, MCL got snapped. And that was a fairly long recovery. And ACL is a long enough recovery anyway after the surgery. You're looking at a good nine to 12 months before you're back 100% longer really until you're back fully 100% but that was made even longer

because I suffered the MCL tear as well. So I had to go into a knee brace for six weeks to let the MCL-Tair heal before they'd operate on the ACL. So it was a bit of a punish of an injury and that was on the back of a shoulder reconstruction which I had the year before and another knee surgery, not a serious that year as well. So I just got on this run of injuries and surgeries and when I went to a bit of a dark place when I did the ACL. I'm not just what are we talking about here. What sporting, what sports were you playing that we're getting you so injured? The ACL MCL was a very, very, very low level game of rugby league.

So I never played sport at any higher level whatsoever. I was just, you know, I was just an average battle at everything I did. And yeah, but, you know, ultimately, doesn't matter how low level the game is, it's still a contact sport and things can still snap and that's what happened. So yeah, just got caught in a tackle

and the tackle went wrong. And my knee went away that knee's not supposed to go. And despite you being such a chill or so down to us, so relaxed, you are competitive on the field, isn't that right? So different Casey on the field. Yeah, Kenbe, not just on the field, pretty much much I do have a competitive streak. I'm not sure where it comes from in pretty much everything I do. White line fever, some might call it. Yeah, that's probably fair to say. It is back to you being bed ridden for six weeks, thinking about making a podcast.

Yeah, so that really, I never really thought too much about mental health and tool that time. So after that injury, I went to a really dark place and that's when I really it really smacked me in the face mental health. That's when I really started realizing different things about mental health and things that I'd been going through since a young age. And, you know, understanding all the talk around mental health, because there was no chat about it. Of course. A little bit old and you recall, but when you were younger going up, there probably still wasn't them. Was there certainly

recent times that you've heard more about it? No, very recently. And when you say you were smacked in your face, your own personal experience, but out in the world, what were you starting to see people talking about? Was it suicide awareness for men that was? Yeah, suicide awareness was one, but also just the talk of the black dog and all that stuff and seeking help and being encouraged to talk about your problems and stuff like that. And obviously that's a very polar opposite to how I was brought up, probably to how

most people were brought up really in Australia anyway. It was always, you don't burden anyone with your problems, just suck it up, take it all in, get knocked down, get up, carry on. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and that's when I just went to a dark place. I never experienced anything like it. It was all like shit. I was just in a hole because I knew what was in front of me again after just rehabbing

those couple of injuries. I was very diligent with my rehab too. The shoulder, I used to do stuff at work with the bands and made sure I did everything the physio said because I just wanted to get back to full health, you know, not for, as I said, I wasn't playing sport anywhere near any sort of elite level, but it was just, you know, it's my hobby, it's my escape, sport, fitness. So I just wanted to get back to full health. And, you know, I remember I used to cop shit from people at work with the rubber bands and doing the exercises and stuff, but, you know,'re currently being done, not serious. I can imagine.

Yeah, so I was very diligent with that and just got through that and then ACL, I've got, oh my God. And I, yeah, just slipped. Just, that was the first time when I actually sought out help, I did go and speak to someone a couple of times, just about different stuff. And that was helpful. And I realized I really needed to do something there is no way,

because with the shoulder surgery and the knee surgery prior to that, as diligent as I was with the rehab and the recovery and the physio, I didn't do much. I mean, I binged a lot of series, you know, Netflix and whatever else. A lot of podcasts too. I hate a lot of ice creams. Yeah, fast food just, you know, just took it easy, relaxed. But I knew with this ACLs I've got to do something that this is not good, this is not healthy. So that's again, where the podcast was like, well look, I've

been thinking about this for years at this point, it's probably time, just I've got time now. I've got nothing but time. I've got that six weeks of just waiting before they can even do a surgery for a nine, 12 month recovery. So it's time to just focus on something. And so with all those things that I mentioned before, listening to serial and hardcore history and Joe Rogan and everything else, I decided. And how true crime came about, obviously, serial was the big one there with the true crime podcasts.

It might be hard for people to remember back then in 2015, there weren't any true crime podcasts. I mean, there few as I'm here for you could probably count on my hand nothing like it is today so This year you're making a murder was also big on Netflix around that time I remember watching that and it always I'd always had an interest in true crime from reading books from when I was young to watching documentaries You know one of the first books I read was Helter Skelter on Charles Manson. I also remember being

hooked on a ABC television drama docky series Blue Murder. Right, I don't know it. Blue murder. Right, I don't know it. Yeah, so Blue Murder looks at like police corruption in Sydney in the 70s, 80s looking at Roger Rajasen, Nettie Smith, the murder of Sally and Huckster, the shooting of police officer McJury or politicians, police officers, all the dodgy stuff that was going on back then, the real high level corruption. And I remembered it's been hooked on that series. And after watching that, I don't remember when it was aired,

but I probably watched it a few years after it came out, whenever it was. But I remember getting all the books I could find on that subject materials, that books on Roger, books Nettie Smith, McDrewry, Rader Book, and book on Sally and Howick's Step,

and just read everything I could about that. It was just found at fascinating. But there was that, there was Helders, Skull Tards, the West Memphis, three case. Had an interest in for a long time as well. So there's just different cases that I was always interested in. Then we had Siri, or making a murder.

So it was always there, they're interested in True Crime. And I guess that's what planted the seed for a True Crime podcast. You know, there weren't many True Crime podcasts. And I remember listening to the few that were there. And I just thought, well, there really is space here for this Dan, Carl and hardcore history style of True Crime podcast, just a single narrator, telling story, in-depth research.

And let's try that. You found your niche. It's funny you mentioned about the interest in True Crime, because I remember, when I was really young, we got FoxTel at our house, and there was a crime channel. And I got so hooked on the idea of forensic investigation, and there was a show called 48 hours,

and following how the police would go about their investigations in those first 48 hours. And so I got really interested as well. So much so that I thought I wanted to be a forensic scientist when I was 10, until I looked into it a little further and figured out what they didn't know. I'll just talk about it. I think I'll stick with talking about it.

Yeah, pass. Yeah, pass. I've always worked on the same shows as well. Yeah, watched all of those. All of those ones. But let's talk about, okay, so then you're sitting there and you're thinking, okay, so now it's the time. What's the first thing that you do

when you decide it's time to make a forecast? You start, where, how did you decide? What was the first step? So the first episode was the Wanda Beach murders. And that was a case, I remember hearing about since I could even remember, since I was a kid hearing about the Wanda Beach murders. And I realized when I was thinking about, well about where do I start, what case do I look at. I realised that was a case that I had heard about so much my whole life and I could not tell you a single thing about it. Wow. And so I thought, well, I'll just start there. Let's just look into this case and see what happens. And yeah, involved, you know, tracking down a rare out of print book that was only available in one

library that I had to travel to and I couldn't take it out of the library. You had to look at it there because it was so rare. Hunting down newspaper archives and all that stuff and just finding out every fact I could about the case. I had no experience writing, so I cringe a little bit when I read those early scripts and just think, oh, God. I know some people like them,

but I do wonder if they're looking back through Rose-Colored Glasses there if they actually went back and listened and compared to the way they're at the start. It's wonderful. Yeah, so, but anyway, the idea for Case-Full was certainly there, just that lay the facts out, no opinions, no discussions, just, here's the facts, place date time. This is what happened.

Here's everything we could find. We don't have. One thing I really am not a fan of in documentaries is presenting something with an agenda. I don't have to name any names or, you know, I'm sure everyone has experienced documentaries at times where they're not presenting facts in an objective manner. They're presenting facts to suit their agenda. And that's something that I really wanted to avoid with case file. There'd be none of that. These are just the facts that we can find.

If there's conflicting facts like, you know, the prosecution argues is the defense counterclams with this, you know, we lay them both out. You decide. Great. Or you make up your mind or you think happen. Or you come up with your own theories. We're not here to tell you how to think or, you know, this is why this couldn't be true because of this and you should think this and this person couldn't have done it because of this, you know, I'm just not personally a fan of that.

And in doing that, you avoid sensationalizing the cases. And I think that's what a lot of people love about case file is that they can go into listening and it's not infected by people's opinions on such sensitive topics that we're talking about. And I think you've done that really well. Yeah, thanks, Rico. Definitely. And then when you consider it's true crime, we're talking about these real lives, real victims, real horrific things that have happened.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I think there is a place for discussion and stuff like that as well. This is not a critique of other podcasts or other documentaries that have that style that clearly there's massively popular shows like that. It's just, personally, that's not my style. But I think there's room for everyone's styles. But, you know, it's not so much the discussion that I have an issue with anyway. It's the bias, the agenda. The agenda-driven presentation

is sort of what I'm talking about here, which I really don't like. And so that was something that was really clear from you from the start, is that you didn't want Case File to have an agenda. You went in making the podcast with that in minds from the start. Yeah, 100%. Awesome.

And what about the equipment? How did you know what to use? It was literally a one-man show. So what did you do to record the first few episodes? So I had a device and an Apogee one that had a built-in mic on it and it was actually something I got to play to plug your guitar in to hook your guitar up to the computer so you can record on Garage Band. But then I saw that it had a mic in there. So I thought, well, I'll just use that. Plugged that in, recorded on Garage Band.

Had no idea what I was doing. I mean, I had the microphone set down on a desk or something, I wasn't even talking into it properly. And just recorded and just tried to throw in some music from like free music sites and tried to find suitable some music from free music sites and tried to find suitable music to put underneath and the production was horrible, it was so bad. And that was the benefit of some of the early comments

when I launched that first episode, or those first few episodes, the feedback was mostly positive, but it was pretty encouraging actually. It was like, oh, this is just really good content, but can you get someone to look at your Cian? Did it see all that? That was constructive feedback.

I was not like to just hate mail that we get today, but it was really constructive early feedback. And I'm very thankful for that to this day. Those early listeners who provided that because that's what made me realize, yeah, they're 100% right, this sounds terrible. I've got no idea what I'm doing. And I put an ad out on a freelance website just for, I didn't even know what I was asking for.

I'm like, who, what do I, I have a podcast I need help with sound or something was the add with some basic add. And that's where Mike came in to the picture. That's where Mike came in, yeah. So he's been in early days around episode seven, I think. And there was about 20 or 30 people who responded to this add and having no idea what I was asking for, what I was looking for, who I needed exactly.

I just sent them a five minute clip or something of an episode and said, here's a clip, you just show me what you can do with it. And you know, some people sent it back, some people didn't. Mike was one of the people who sent it back. And it just there was a clear difference between listening to what Mike sent back and what everyone else sent back. I thought, oh this is like head and shoulders above what everyone else has done. So it just really stood out. And at the time Mike was working for Pinewood, dubbing Disney movies. So he was. Yeah, I think he just left. And I think that's why he's the freelance of it. That's right. Yeah. And I remember reading that,

his resume, like worked on Disney films and this film and that was like, oh, I can't afford this. Yeah, literally. It sounds way too qualified. You know, I'm just sitting in the spare room at my desk trying to make these podcasts. With the dogs barking in the background. Was it there? Yes, the dogs.

Yes, the early problems, the trees rustling and birds in the tree and dogs barking, lawnmowers going. And yeah, so I remember talking to my gang when he said he was interested. I was like, I don't really like I don't have a Budget as such And he said no, I remember him saying it's fine, you know, like I've just started freelancing this sounds interesting

His different sort of work podcasting of never I don't think he even had listened to podcasts at that point Yeah, he's not into true crime No, not at all. No, he's not into true crime. No, not at all. No, he wasn't into it. No, still not. But he said he'd do it for a 10 bucks an hour. Just super cheap. I was like, oh, okay, I can afford that.

That's cool. Sold. Sold. Take it. Take my money. So that's how that started. And what episode did might come in? Pretty sure it was seven.

I'm sure that was the first episode you worked on. Really early days. And what about for the writing side of things? Is it was something that you didn't really enjoy doing? Is that right? It caused a lot of stress. Or did you like the writing process? Do you like writing the episodes for Case File?

I don't mind it. Yeah. I just, I know my limitations with it. So maybe it's not as correct to say they're enjoy the writing, it's more the researching and putting together the information. Then when it comes to writing, I realize I am very limited with that.

But also, I was going back, so I'd had my few months off work and I was going back to, I had my few months off work and I was going back to work, reduced the hours, but then they slowly build you back into full time, just because I was still rehabbing the knee at that point, it was only a few months after the surgery, or a few months after the injury, whatever it was, I forget exactly when I went back, but the hours were slowly building up and my time was running out and people were actually listening to this podcast and it's like, wow. Of course.

Actually, I do remember now, it was when I was back full time, because it was around episode 30 when I first got someone to help with their writing. So I would have been back well and truly full time at that point. So the hours were very, very limited at this point. And I knew I couldn't keep going how I was. I needed help because there were times where, you know, I'd finish a night shift and just sleep for three hours and wake up and have to work on the podcast because it was starting to really get popular at that point by episode 30. I remember being blown away when I released the first episode of my goal was to get a hundred listens. Imagine if a hundred people listen to this, get popular at that point by episode 30. I remember being blown away when I released a first episode,

my goal was to get a hundred listens. Wow. Imagine if a hundred people listen to this, sort of be interesting. And I got that in 24 hours. Oh, wow, on the first episode. Yeah, and the first episode I remember being blown away by that, I was like, wow, could it get to a thousand?

And then it got to a thousand in a week. That was blowing my mind at that point. And then it was just slow growth from there. But by the time episode 30 was out, it was starting to really be, I don't remember what the listens would have been at that point. Maybe it was up in the tens of thousands by that point, 20, 30,000 in episode or something.

So it was starting to get popular. Yeah, and you have that responsibility to live for now because you've got an audience. That's right. And I just remember being under that much pressure and stress, thought just because of... I loved doing the podcast, but work was getting in the way. Yes, of course. Yeah. That's what I wanted to talk to you about. I wanted to talk to you about your decision to leave stable employment and partake on this journey of case file.

Yeah, I was very fortunate with workwork, we're very supportive. I remember telling the boss about this podcast and he's looking at me through squinted eyes. I thought, what? Podcasts, drawn, I explain. Is that on the internet? Is it? It's like, I can't wait to watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you're writing books on the internet or that he had no idea what I was talking about. But once you got his head around it, you're very supportive. And when it came time, it was 2017 where it really was taking off. That's when

it was starting to keep millions of downloads and it was crazy. And that's when I thought, this is an opportunity that has presented itself through a lot of hard work too, but you know, this opportunity is here now. I would really like to try it full-time and work. Thankfully gave me 12 months off, leave without pay. So it was a really big safety net there. I could take that risk, try it full-time, see what happened, and that 12 months went so quick. Yeah. One of the bosses called me and said, mate, just calling you up, it's time to come back to work. I just remember going, wow, didn't realize a year could

go that quick. And I wasn't ready. I hadn't made a decision. So I asked for more time off. Can I have another six months? Right. They said, no, sorry. Like, you need to come back.

And then they looked at different things like considering offering stuff like set days or something I think it was at that time it was still full time hours but a set roster if that could help because they needed people. Right. But ultimately I just so well it's worked for a year there's no reason why it can't work for another year or two or a couple of years. And just keep going with it and see what happens. I remember having a conversation with a good mate at that time.

And he said, you are crazy if you go back to work. And that was a really smart guy. If you go back to working courage, you... Yeah, he's a very smart guy and always treat his advice highly. And just how it wasn't even a decision for him who was just looking at me like, what do you mean? I think I'd go back to work. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I realized, yeah, okay. This opportunity's here. It's time to leave work, that stable employment and just try this full time and see what happens. And look, I wanted to know if there were any points through the process where you stopped and thought, wait a minute, what the fuck have I just done and thought about stopping or what was that like for you with Case Farm? I'll probably COVID when COVID COVID hit in the world shut down, I was like,

oh no, what have I done here? And how did you push through that? How did you overcome that thought? Well, it was sort of not great science initially because obviously we survived with advertising dollars. That's what pays the bills and advertisers, like everyone else in the world when the pandemic hit really pulled out. You know, ads were getting canceled, they're

frightened, the center. I was just thinking like, how long is this going to go on for? Is it done now? Is podcasting done? You know, so there's some stressful days there. But ultimately, it was only probably a month or two to get on track. And if you look at our analytics, if you listen, as you can see, a massive it just goes off a cliff when the pandemic hit. Really? You know, for all sorts of reasons, obviously, people's anxiety was through the roof. Is the world ending? What's happening here?

People are no longer going to work. No one's commuting. No one's going on holidays. No one's going to the gym. No one's doing anything. Mm-hmm. People are stuck at home. And I think the streaming services,

the TV streaming services went through the roof at that point. And podcasts went the other way. But as I said, it turned around very quickly. For us, I mean, I'm only speaking from case follows point of view, those were the only numbers I was privy to. But after a month or two, it just slowly came back on the app. Advert advertisers came back when they realised people were still listening. And ultimately from a bit of a shaky initial start there, we were very, very fortunate during the pandemic and the lockdowns that we could keep doing what we could do pretty much unaffected. Yes, definitely exactly. You do have that luxury of working from home and not being live as well in a same room as people because a lot of podcasts these days require you to be in the same room as someone to interview them and the show the show style. What about your decision to remain anonymous?

remain anonymous. Yeah again that came just to the style of the show that I wanted to do with that single narrator storytelling and not having any sort of agenda or coming from any angle or bias or anything. I thought that worked better just having a voice, just having a voice, telling you a story, who this person is, is not important. Just telling the facts, respect to victims, no personality, I thought that suited the style of show I wanted to do. So, you know, I want with that. I mean, at the time I wasn't expecting anyone to listen to this either. So it's not like it was this massive decision and well thought out and had this plan that I'm going to be this anonymous host and how good this is going to be. It's going to add to the mistake of the show that

was none of that. This was literally a hobby to fill in time until I recovered and went back to work. 100 people listening, I would have been happy with. I was expecting to maybe do a few episodes and yeah, okay, I'll try that. that was good and now I'm back at work and the podcast has done, I think, wasn't expecting it to take off. It has now become a bit of a thing, the anonymous host and... Yeah well exactly, it is a thing, definitely a thing, combined with your voice, I mean it's super mysterious, super mysterious. It was very unintentional. Not unintentional, but I mean obviously it was a conscious decision to be anonymous, but certainly wasn't expecting the show's success that we've had. Very thankful for that.

And right currently Case File is clocked over, is it 600 million downloads that you're hitting now? Probably more. All-time, yes. All-time downloads. Over 600 million, yep. So you're definitely global, definitely global, and what I wanted to know though, what do you hope to achieve in covering these cases to such a large audience? For me, when we, when it started taking off from getting this massive audience, massive global reach, I really saw an opportunity there to be able to help,

to help get family stories out, unsolved cases. Obviously, we don't just do unsolved cases, we do a lot of solved cases. That too stemming from, from early feedback, because the first few episodes of case file were all unsolved, and that was intentional. But then with that feedback, with the audio, I was also getting feedback. I'd be good to cover solve cases too, and have you considered that, and I just thought, well, if that's what people want to hear, we can do that while also doing unsolved. But for me, it has, and we have been able to do it, offer family members, you know, loved ones of victims, a platform to get their stories out, to give them a voice.

Definitely. You have, and you've done it so well. Are there any examples of case file episodes having helped reach new witnesses or new information in cases? There has been a few people that have reached out to me on past cases that we've covered with interesting information and stuff that I've actually forwarded to the relevant police agencies, crime stoppers or whoever, wherever it is in the world. What's come of it, I don't know. Certainly, you know, a case file hasn't solved any cases or anything like that, but yeah, there has been information that has come in and how beneficial that has been to investigate as who knows, because they don't give you feedback on that. So, oh, thanks for the info.

What they do with it, who knows? Of course, of course. For me, I remember getting into Case File. Case File was the first Australian podcast I listened to. And that was in 2016. Shortly after I listened to Siri, I got into Case File. And I started with Silk Road. I remember going on Reddit, and it was like,

which Case File episode should I start with? Because by then, you had like 100 and blah episodes out, 120 or whatever. And I started Silk Road and I thought it was brilliant, the storytelling and just the type of crime, it was the first time I'd heard about the dark web, for example, when this Silk Road company that was like eBay in the black market. And then another case that really stuck with me was the Janabi family about the US soldiers

in Iraq. I highly recommend people to listen to that episode. And I was wondering for you if there were any episodes through these years that have stuck with you more than maybe other cases. Yeah, that it's a hard one to answer because they pretty much all do for a certain period. When you're working on them, when you're recording them, and they all stick with you and have some sort of effect, but then obviously with so many cases, sometimes, you know, a new case will then stick with you and maybe not so much the other one. But they're always there. The Janabi family certainly one one that you mentioned. All of the cases that we've worked

on where we have interviewed family members or helped family members, spoken to family members, they always stick with you that extra bit because you just want to see a result for that family to have something happening in the case and arrest or a breakthrough of something, new witnesses, whatever it may be, you want nothing more for that to happen for them. So a lot of the unsolved ones still stick with me. And how do you go about when you're dealing with such heavy content and talking to sometimes the victims' families and so forth? How do you go about switching off from that at home or being able to separate your personal life from your work life when it's so,

you're so involved in the process of writing. It's hard researching. It was actually only yesterday I was listening to a podcast and someone was talking about that, someone who ran a company saying it's not just going to work nine to five and running your company, you never switch off. Yeah. And it's much like running to work nine to five and running your company. You never switch off. Yeah.

And it's much like running a podcast that there is, I never switch off. There's no such thing as a day off, even on a day off in quotes. There's always something in my mind. I'm thinking about something stuff that needs to be done. All the case, I'll present stuff now as well, which we're working on many other shows. How I do try and have some downtime is music is a big one and fitness. I'm fitness.

Fitness has always been a big part of my life for various reasons, but very important now. Training just exercise at the gym running, whatever. GG2 as well, which I've gotten into in the last few years. That's a big one. I noticed a difference. I noticed a big difference during lockdown when I couldn't do GG2. I know, I know, but also during lockdown you did the David Goggins challenge, which just to remind everyone, it's where you have to run four miles, every four hours, four 48 hours, is that correct? Yeah, that's right, which is about six and a half

case, four miles, six and a half case. Yeah. So I managed to run eight of those legs, and another four I had to get on a rower or a elliptical machine. And the rules of the challenger that you can, it doesn't have to be running. If you don't run, you've got to do 45 minutes of something.

So just due to, I was in big trouble during that challenge at different times, physically my leg, so I just physically couldn't go anymore. So that's why I had to jump on the rowar and the elliptical machine, because I wanted to finish it no matter what. So I had to sub out some of the legs.

I would like to finish it all running one year, but yeah, it was still hard. Yeah, that was a good challenge. I recommend it for anyone listening. Really, really, because David Goggins is renowned for pushing his body past its limits, you know. So, why? What encourages you to choose such an extreme physical challenge? That's what I'm interested in. I guess I was just drawn to it, just because I know how much of a mental challenge it would

be, I'm interested in stuff like that. Because I don't care who you are, you're going to feel it if you do something like that. For 48 hours, it doesn't matter how fit you are, what you've done. There's going to be a point during a challenge like that where it becomes a mental battle. Because there's a lack of sleep as well. It's every fun. Yeah, you've got sleep deprivisions thrown in there as well, which adds to it. And so I'm just really drawn to stuff like that.

Can you win the mental battle, the mental demons that are telling you to quit? Pretty much that whole challenge. I had that voice in my head saying, what the fuck are you doing this? Honestly, you go back to quit. Pretty much that whole challenge. I had that voice in my head saying, why the fuck are you doing this? Honestly, go back to bed, stop. Okay, you've gone for 24 hours now, you've proven whatever, we can stop now. And it's just beating that voice.

I'm really drawn to stuff like that. And you were successful in it. You were also able to raise a sum of money that was donated to MPAN. The missing persons of the C-network run by Lauren O'Keefe. Yeah, I did it for MPAN, encouraged donations from our listeners and our listeners were very kind, we raised about $6,000. That's wonderful.

They don't know it is straight to ampN. I gave up dates after every leg just through the social media channels and yeah, encouraged donations and people were very climbed with their donations and that helped as well when you're out there struggling at three o'clock in the morning going on a run. Yeah, it does. Doing it for the people. Yeah, that's right. It's for a good course.

Lauren does such fantastic work. And yeah, it was very happy to be able to help her out with that. And unfortunately, couldn't do the challenge this year due to an injury. Seems like a common thing. Another one. Yeah, not as serious as ACLM, but yeah, a bit of an Achilles problem. And what's missing is tied to case file presents. I did want to focus a little bit on case file presents.

It's very personal to me because through case file presents silent waves, which is the show that I co-creative at Georgina Savage was able to reach an audience that I could never have had imagined before that time. And so I'm like eternally grateful that CaseFile presents exists. And I wanted to know about why you decided to offer this podcasting platform along with CaseFile. CaseFile presents is something that I'd spoken to Mike about for a long time.

You know, probably over a year at that point where we had this audience fortunate enough to have such a large audience and we thought, can we do other shows? Because I mentioned earlier how that investigative style was always of interest as well. And there were many more true crime podcasts at this point, lots of really great investigative star podcasts. And we thought, could we create something another platform network with production company? What can we do?

And we weren't really sure. We just sort of had informal discussions back and forth here and there, like, yeah, we should do something or whatever. It was always just sort of like an idea. Much like starting the podcast, it was a new idea in the back of my head. I wasn't really sure how to do it, what to do, what it would look like, it was just an idea forming.

And I still remember where I was when I listened to Silent Wave, so I was on a run. I was actively looking for other podcasts, like are there other podcasts that have started? Like what can we offer? What can we do? I just went to here, stuff that's been created now. And I think it was, I just came across it randomly. I did Google search, like latest podcasts or really whatever I typed.

The best podcasts Australia or something, whatever the Google search was. I doubt it was that for you. No, I think it was something like that. Or the best new podcast or something and a list came up and saw Silent Waves and I read the little blurb, but it was about, so okay, I'll listen to this. Sounds intense. It did, yeah. And I was on a run, just listening to it, and I just remember, remember that, having to stop at one point on the run, just going, well, this is unbelievable. Like, this is just so powerful and so well done. I've never heard anything like this before. Just the bravery, the courage, you and your family, the heart, making that show, and putting that out to the world,

and which we'll get into later, how much that has helped other people. You know, yeah, it literally stopped me in my tracks. On the run, I just stopped. It was just like, I had to just stop and take it all in. And yeah, so I was blown away by that, but then came like, well, it's already released. Well, there's not really anything I can do to help that, but I just wanted to get in touch with yourself or Georgina, just to let you know how good it was, how powerful it was,

and the courage that you showed. So I went to the website, there was a contact email. Yes. I don't think it said who it was and the courage that you showed. So I went to the website, there was a contact email. I don't think it said who it was for. So I don't think I know who I was contacting exactly, but I just wrote an email and sent that through. And it was Georgina who wrote back saying, thank you. And that started a conversation. And I think I might have mentioned something like, do you have any other shows that you're thinking about doing it? Is there anything else? You know, just sort of had this idea of case file presents and Georgina said, well, actually,

we're looking for somewhere for silent waves because we were with someone and, you know, that contract has expired. It was still new. I think it was six months that you had that contract for when it was released. So, yeah. Yes. So that six months was over and you were looking it was six months that you had that contract for when it was released. Yeah. So that six months was over and you were looking for something and then that's what I thought. But then I didn't really know how to approach it. One because I still didn't know what the whole case for I'll presents was going to be exactly. And then obviously with the content of Silent Waves, you know,

who's this bloke coming in? What do you want to do? What? What? Trying to know whatever? Who's this bloke coming in? What do you want to do? What, what, trying to, whatever. But yeah, that started the conversation and I was introduced to you and we jumped on the call. Yes, yes. I personally couldn't believe it because I remember when we started making the podcast, Regina and I,

and we were off the people to sponsor the show, we're going partnership with the show and it was a tough sell. Like I remember going up to ABC, so well, the story is that my dad is a child sex offender and my cousin was twin. This is my story about breaking my silence and everyone was like, no, just no. And I remember we really didn't have high expectations. We kind of came to the conclusion that we were just gonna do it on our own

and see what would happen. And then we were lucky enough to land partnership with nearly media who we were with before you. When we were in this partnership, I remember this one day that we were recording, I don't know, some after-show or seeing if we would do an extra episode. And the man who was part of the nearly media came up to us and said, Ah, apparently Case File has listened to your podcast.

Apparently, there are fans of your podcast at CaseFile and we're like, wait, what? Not impossible, impossible. And we even thought, should we send an email to CaseFile? Should we do that? And I remember maybe we had sent an email, I don't think we did, or maybe the man said that they would send an email, he would send an email on our behalf and nothing ever happened about it. And I was like, of course not. I mean, it's case file. So when you got in contact with us, I literally could not believe it. I was like, no, no, no, no, no way. And then I think that's what's so incredible about case file presents. It gives

the platform to people who otherwise would think that there was no chance. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and that's really what case file presents is all about, is giving people a platform. When you tell me that story initially, I blew it out because I was on the other side going out, because it wasn't straight away, I sent that email, I listened to it, it's not like I came out in some email straight away. It was a good month. I might have been longer than that before I actually sent it.

Because I just sort of wanted to process it a bit and think about what I wanted to say. And during that time, I remember there was quite a few times where I was like, Oh, look, I won't send it. They're not going to care some other podcast saying whatever, you know, like they're not going to want to hear from me. So I was thinking the opposite to what you were thinking. Wow, see, this is, this is why, and what would you say for budding podcasters that are thinking of making a show and the opportunity to have their show and Ks file presents, for example.

Let's talk about that. Really, it seemed probably all the cliches in the world, but they're all kind of true. You've just got to do it. That's how Ks file started was just doing it. You've got to take those steps and keep doing it and realize there's not going to be instant success. There is so much work that goes into it. I mean, I'm talking out particular style of podcasting. The case file present shows, you know, self-creating

silent waves, what is involved in a limited run series. It's a lot of time, a lot of work. There's drafts and second drafts and third drafts and and legal checks, and back and forth, and cuts and additions, and re-records, and post-production, and there is a lot of work. It's not easy. So just go into it with that in mind. It is not going to be easy. But yeah, I know podcasting is a lot different to when I started case file, and there is a saturation of podcast now, but there's no reason why you still can't do it. There's going to saturation of podcasts now, but there's no reason why you still can't do it. There's going to be more competition now. So there's probably a greater emphasis on having really, really good content

that stands out, but can still be done. And as someone who has done it, what would you say your favorite part about this career in podcasting is. Probably just being able to work with so many great people, like yourself, Rikol, like the case file team, everyone on the team, just being so fortunate to put together such a great team of great people. It's a pleasure, like it doesn't feel like work.

There is a lot of work involved, but it doesn't feel like work. And it's just, you know, it's a real privilege. That's what we're all trying to reach, right, is to find something to do that doesn't feel like work. So it's wonderful that you found that. I think there's another old cliche on that, isn't it? And all you love to do, and you won't work a day in your life or whatever it is. And they're all true, how about that? Yeah, that's the thing with cliches.

And before we move on from Case File, I do want to say congratulations. I, as you know, I really admire you and what you've done with case file, what you continue to do with case file. As you said, it's not easy and it's important to remind ourselves and everyone else that podcasting isn't just final production. We don't just pick up a microphone, record, and that's that. No. It can take years at times.

Yeah. How long did you work on Saul and Waves for? It was two years, exactly. And I think it's very important. And the quality, as you were saying, of everything you've done with Case File, storytelling in a way that doesn't sensationalize is a lot harder to do than one imagines.

Because it's very easy to jump into sensationalism especially in true crime storytelling. So congratulations for that again. I do want to know, I guess, after having achieved such an incredible amount with case file, what do you hope for the future of the show? Just that we can continue to deliver quality content and continue to help people, continue to give a platform for people for case file presents and just, you know, keep getting better, keep working hard, not getting ahead of ourselves, not getting inflated egos, any of that, which I don't think anyone does on the team. That's right, such a great team to work with.

Everyone's down to earth, super chill. And that's not easy to do when you've got people like Steve Martin giving you free promotion on talk shows. Yeah, that was crazy. Tell me a little bit about that, because that's amazing. I thought it was a joke initially, I'm like, please. And then I just refused to believe it. I was like, no, this is like some PR campaign.

They've picked out a few top true crime podcasts and they've each given the cast member one just to help promote the show or whatever. I was very cynical. It was just because Steve Martin was such a massive star. I grew up watching his movies, love Steve Martin. I just couldn't comprehend it. But then when I saw his interviews and saw what he was actually saying and his story about writing the bike and how many episodes he listened to at this certain point in summer, I'm

like, oh, that's so many episodes we would have had out then. Steve Martin actually does listen a case file. Wow. Yeah, the whole team was like, what? Yeah, it was crazy. It was pretty cool. And that show too, only murders in the building. Yeah, it's a good show too. I recommend it. Yeah, yeah, it's wonderful. And he's not the only celebrity. I remember one of the writers was telling me a best story about Daniel Radcliffe. Can you share that one? Yeah, another one that I didn't believe I was like, come on. And yeah, I got sent the, I don't think there's audio of the interview. I think it was a written article. He was at some event and podcasting somehow came up

and he rattled off a few of the podcast of his favorite podcast that he was listening to and case file was one. That was another like mind blow. What? Really? Then your rag-lift listens. And yeah, our former team member was in New York and happened to come across him at a cafe, I believe it was. And she said, well, you know, you don't get this opportunity every now then, I'm just going to go for it. And she just went out to him, so I work for Case Fall, I believe, and I believe you listen. And he's like, yeah, yeah, love Case Fall and post for a photo and stuff. So yeah, that's pretty cool. There's been quite a few celebrity

shout outs, and my mind is being blown at all of them. There was Chrissy Teigen had something on Instagram one day that just blew up our account. Kate McKinnon was on, I wanna say Jimmy Fallon and gave us a shout out on there, which was huge. This is all free. You didn't ask anyone to do this. It's all free marketing. There's also been bands that I love.

Singers from bands and musicians that I love in Australia, who have said that they listen, which has been super cool as well. Music's come up a few times in our conversation. And talk to me. You have a specific type of music that you like. Talk to me about, tell me three bands that you like. Please, please.

Only three, oh no. Do your top three. That's hard. The style of music I listen to is, I do listen, I do appreciate a lot of styles, but my favorite styles, punk and heavy metal, I'd say. And so that 90s, the 90s style of punk that exploded with Green Day offspring,

that 94, those two albums, Smash and Duky, that created this whole thing, that's when I was becoming a teenager, and that's just that got me hooked on this whole genre of music, Pennywise, NoFX, strung out all those sort of bands from the 90s, Larkwagon. So this day that I still love and many more hundreds of bands and then with the metal Metallica, I've got huge when I was younger and still love them to this day. System of a down, you know, rage against a machine, bands like that.

And so there's honestly, we'd be here for 15 hours. You've all went through all the bands and musicians that I love, but yeah, that's just a little snippet, you know, Parkway Drive, another metal band that I love. I don't know. I don't know Parkway Drive personally, but I... From Australia, Iron Bay. Are they? Yeah, awesome, yeah. I say, speaking of growth and stuff, that's really interesting too,

because I got into them when they first came out. And it's just so been so interesting seeing that growth, you know, it's been awesome, because when I first saw them, it was in a local pub, there was like 50 people there or whatever. So now headlining stadium tours around the world and this epic live show that they put on and just seeing that growth over the years,

it's just been phenomenal, very inspiring. Yeah, that's super inspiring. I just say that the work that they've put in, yeah, really cool, really cool to follow a band from the grassroots and see them just become so insanely popular. Like that show I'm talking about at the pub, I managed to get on the mic briefly.

The song's up the front, the singer's held the mic out for a part of a song and I'm yelling into the microphone. Would've sounded horrible. But, yeah, super cool. Yeah, yeah. Wow, so you did a great job. Now you go see him, it's a massive stadium show and this epic show that they put on with fireworks and fire and you know. And they're not letting you on stage anymore unfortunately.

Unfortunately not, they're probably a good thing. That's the best for everyone. Unfiltered, we will be back shortly. Thank you for supporting us by listening to this episode's sponsors. Thank you for listening to this episode's ads. By supporting our sponsors, you support Unfiltered to continue to deliver quality content. We've covered case file, your professional life,

how you got involved in true crime, but have you ever been personally involved in a crime? When I was 17, I was, throughout my teenage years I worked at a popular fast food chain, global chain. And there was one particular night, I was 17 at the time, I was doing the wash up shift, which is the worst shift of all time.

It sucked. Wash it up. You were literally washing dishes? Literally washing dishes, yeah. And I remember this particular night well, to get days off at this restaurant to request the days off, because you had things coming up, you had to request a day off because you had things

coming up, you had to go through a manager, you had to see the manager on shift. And I remember getting lucky this night, there was a really good manager on, very approachable, friendly, and so I thought, beauty tonight's a night, I'll go in and put those dates in. And I remember the night so well, there was multiple times where I was like, okay, I'll go see the manager now with those dates, but then something would come up, someone also would come in with more staff or get interrupted some other way or, oh no, actually I'll just finish this little thing and then I'll go, this has happened over the course of however long.

Then finally, there was a break, I was like, now is the time. I went to the manager's office, so I had my back turned. I was standing at the door, talking to the manager's office, so I had my back turned. I was standing at the door, talking to the manager, unavailable dates. Oh, yeah, sure, sure. Pulled the book down. Now it felt something in my back, something hitting my back, multiple times. Someone saying, get down, get down, get down. Wow. So it was a joke of a fellow work colleague carrying on or doing something. I remember turning around thinking what the fuck are you doing you idiot? And there was a gun pointed at me. A hand gun. And yeah that's when I realized this was very much not a joke. Get down, get down. Absolutely.

You got straight down. Parried my head, did I was old as told. He ordered the manager to open the safe and fill his bag with the cash, which he did. She did a great job. It was calm, held her nerve, did as she was told, followed all of his instructions. And yeah, the one thing I remember about it is he was so calm. He was a seasoned crook. This was definitely not some, you know, opportune looking for a quick fix.

He was just calm and in control. There was no yelling, no screaming, no losing his temper. You get down, you open the safe, fill the bag, come on, hurry up, hurry up. You know, talking like this. Wow. Super cool. In control, completely. Very in control. And I was just man manager in the office and I was absolutely shitting myself. I had my knees on the ground, head buried low. Please don't shoot me. I think I'm gonna die. It's very scary. And then once the bag was filled, he said, right, count to 100, don't move. It was gone. Just like that. It happened so quick.

Just like that. Yeah, and I think I counted to about 1,850 seats or something, just to make sure that he was well and truly gone. I think it was the manager actually, you can get up now. He's gone. So, yeah, that was quite scary. And I was obviously still in shock because I just got up and went back around to the wash up room and kept working, just not quite processing what had just happened. Really, you didn't go home after that.

No, no, I kept working until obviously they called the police and then the store manager and the hire ups and I think it was the store manager came in and came around and saw me because what are you doing? Stop, relax. Yes. We'll feed, because I was just my response to it. I was just, you know, what to do. I was in shock. But yeah, the police came, went to the police station, gave a statement. One week later, they got here again. They think it was the same guy. He went back. I believe he got 10 grand cash. To a different location or the same location.

No, same restaurant. Yeah, I wasn't on shift when he came back a week later. But when I was there, I believe it was 10 grand. He got out of the safe. He got out of cash. And I think it was a similar number, the week later, when he went back and got it again. It was morning.

It was nighttime when I was there. And then a week later, he went morning, early morning. But they think it was the same guy. Never called him. And was he, he didn't mention was he using a balaclava? Was his face covered? There was something going on, but I really don't remember, I just remember seeing the barrel of this gun, and that's all.

Wow. That's what my memory is. I know there was something going on with this face, I don't think, it wasn't a balaclava, but it was like, there was maybe a hood or something pulled over, or whatever it was. Yeah, I'd be interested to read my statement actually, because what exactly are detailed back then, because it's hard now, so nearly however long ago it was several decades later trying to think back. But I do remember that gun. Yeah. Yeah, and guns are terrifying. I mean, living in Brazil, you know, I'm exposed to so many more guns

Then I then then in Australia sometimes you're you're going past a police car for example and they've just got their They're rifles sticking out of the the window So just a gun in your face, you know things like that, but seeing a gun is super super terrifying though, as in like being confronted with a gun on that end. Yeah, being hidden. I was obviously the gun that you were poking in my back. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, turning around and seeing it. Just fuck. Yep. Very scary. That's your near death experience. Basically, you've been touched on the back with the barrel of a gun. At the time, yeah, I thought, because you know, like, you're on the ground, head buried, hands listening to the money being put in the safe, just thinking,

like, is it gonna shoot us what's going to happen here. No, it's literally like a movie. Yeah, it was. Now that we are getting more personal, I was going to say that the world knows you is KC or simply anonymous, but we have had many conversations about the possibility of you sharing parts of your personal story. I was thinking we could start with the health scare that you suffered around this time last year during the pandemic. What can you tell me about that?

What happened? Yeah. Well, speaking of near-death experiences, that was one. It wasn't really, but it felt like one. So people may remember last year, 2021, we had to take, believe it was four weeks off, five weeks off, something like that. Unexpectedly, I think a message may have gone out about my health or something. So I had just finished recording an episode, I don't remember what episode it was, but I just finished recording and after recording an episode I like to go to the gym.

So that's where I was headed. I had the call into the post office first. So I remember driving to the post office thinking, I was actually, I don't know if I should go to the gym today, I was just not quite feeling it, but then you start thinking, come on, don't be soft. David Goggins video start going through your head. Yeah, we're right. So I got, remember, pulling up at the post office car park and getting the package I had to post.

And so vivid, the memory walking to the post office, I remember thinking, why the fuck is this package so heavy? It wasn't a heavy package at all. It was like, this feels so heavy. Well, what's going on? I was just remember, and then standing in the post office,

I was just remember feeling a bit scattered. Like this package. It's heavy package that wasn't heavy. And, now I did what I had to do at the post office, walked back to the car, still was thinking, maybe I should just drive home.

I started driving towards the gym, but it was still in my head like, no, I don't think I should go today. But before I had the chance to turn around, I just, I had to pull over. I just felt something, it's hard to describe the feeling, but I just had to pull over. I knew something was horribly wrong. I managed to pull over, got out of the car, struggled. I couldn't really walk or somehow stumbled to the gutter and was just like, ah, fuck, my left arm was just tingling pins and needles. I had this massive tightness in my chest.

I couldn't stand, I couldn't talk. I was just, I remember sitting in the gutter, looking at all these cars going by, cause you had relatively busy road. And just thinking, wow, what a fucking place to die in a gutter on this road. Wow, that's what I was thinking. I thought I was gone.

Yeah, I thought I was gone. I thought it was a hard attack. So it was on your left side, the tingling. Left arm, left arm, tingles. This massive tightness in my chest. And just remember looking at these cars, just thinking about help, like someone help. But it's not like I was just on the gutter. To cars driving by, I just would have looked like someone sitting in the gutter.

You know, I just remember thinking, you know, there's no reason for anyone to really stop. So, I'm certainly not being critical of that. But just, I just remember thinking like a fuck, something, like help, like help, I'm certainly not being critical of that, but just I just remember thinking like a fuck something like help help I'm dying Wow, and I managed to get my phone out and luckily Someone was able to come and pick me up and I don't exactly remember what

and pick me up. And I don't exactly remember what, if I got in the car or something, I don't know if I explained what was happening. I've been told later that she thought I was having a hard attack. Like there was a little bit of worry there. She drove straight to a medical center. I've gone in, a doctor's looked at me,

they've called an ambulance, they hooked me up to an ECG machine. And I remember the ammo looking at me, the paramedics saying, yeah, yeah, this is you are having a heart attack. Wow. I'm never thinking, well, that's at least I know, okay, that's relief, there's paramedics here, there's a doctor, I'm not dead yet, this has been going on for a while. And hopefully I'm going to survive this. Because there still wasn't sure at that stage and they've injected me with something and whatever they've done, they've gone to work on me.

And then a call, I think the ECG must go to a heart specialist at the hospital and they call the paramedic or vice versa and said, no, it's not an heart attack. It's like a false positive thing or something. So then that's been relayed to me. Actually, the specialist reckons it's not a heart attack. It's something else going on.

I don't know. Still a little bit blurry, but I ended up going to hospital and was there for quite a few hours. They ran all the tests and did blood tests and all the tests showed that it wasn't a heart attack. They never really explained what it could be. So I'm just like, well, okay, so I just go home now. So it still doesn't feel right.

No, it was nowhere near as bad as what it was when I had to pull over. But I remember telling the doctors like, well, what do I do like I still feel not quite good here? But they said go home and if you know come back basically if I have to so went home slept the night woke up the next morning thinking I think I'm better. I think I feel okay got in the car The pain had subsided by then OK, got in the car. The pain had subsided by then. It was still there, but not as strong. There was still like a tire in this in my chest.

There was still something going on my left arm, but it just wasn't how it was when I had to pull out of the car. Where I couldn't stand and my head, the world was spinning. So I remember getting in the car and driving. I just had to quickly drive down the street. I didn't even get around the corner. It started again. Exactly what happened the day before,

just like the world started spinning again. It started to get more intense along the way. Oh, fuck. Had to pull over again, back to hospital. And back through all the tests again, and again got tired. Look, it's not a heart attack. Like, it's not all the tests are fine.

But so you're good to go home. But then I was booked in to see a heart specialist at Justine Case. So over the next few days or weeks, whatever it was, when and did, there was three tests I had to do with the specialist. So I forget what they were all called in there, but I was hooked up to a machine for 24 hours. When they checked the heart rhythm, then I had to go in and get on a treadmill and go for as long as possible on the treadmill, whatever they did there, and they monitor the heart, and there was something else I had to do. And all the tasks, well, you were perfectly fine.

Your heart is fine, there is nothing wrong. And was that confusing for you? Very, very confusing. Because I've always prided myself on being healthy, individual fitness, all that stuff, eat. Exactly. Yeah, I certainly don't eat perfect. But I do try and look at what I eat most of the time.

So eat relatively healthy most of the time. And it's just very confusing about how and my, and then I started thinking about my stepdad died of a heart attack suddenly. He was only pretty young, early 50s. But obviously there's not a blood connection there, a hereditary connection with you being a step parent, but just start to think, well, you know, trying to make sense.

Is there something like, I lived with my stepdad since I was very young, so like, is there some, you know, start to think all these theories of your mind goes through life? Was there something that we've been exposed to? Like, what's, you know, what's going on? I'm going to drop that any second, basically, because I remember hearing my step-dad went through a few different things, I don't know if you ever experienced anything like that, but where he was seeing a heart specialist before he died, just because of the different things that were going on.

They were telling him the same thing. There's nothing wrong. You're perfectly healthy, but then he died suddenly one day. So you had that on the back of your mind, is it? Yeah, so I'm thinking, well, pretty much any second, I'm just going to drop dead. And I remember just that's just how it was living life for a couple of weeks, I was thinking, Wow. Yeah, but it wasn't until The test came back over the next couple of weeks and then I was yeah Well, I obviously haven't dropped dead yet. Yeah, so that's a plus but also that Experience of the tightness of the test and the arm has gone away in that time and

That's something that I had experienced for a very long time in my life, for pretty much as long as I can remember. Not certainly not to that extent. Yes. Obviously that sort of all came to a head in that moment when I had to go to hospital, but at various points, for as long as I can remember in my life,

I've had that sort of pins and needle and tingle and shooting up the arm and really tied in the chest and you know I just put it down to stress at work Never I had been to the doctor a few times over Probably the last 10-15 years, you know like maybe Two or three times so it got to the point where I'm like, I'm just gonna go to the medical center and I remember feeling like the world's biggest hyper-conjure act.

Because it's hard to explain. You're seeing a doctor, they're doing all the tests. But like, what's your problem? Your blood pressure is good. There's your healthy fit, whatever. Like, yeah, but I've got like these tingles and this tightness and the, well, you know, so, yeah, that happened a few times. And so I remember there was certain periods in my life where I thought,

fuck him, I'm going to drop dead at some point. Is this early signs of a heart attack or what is going on? But then it would go away after a couple of days wouldn't be strong, then I'd be at work or something, it'd be busy and stressed and like, okay, it's come back a little bit now. That's what just get back to the gym fitness. We'll eat healthily, we'll eat our way out of this, we're healthy food and fitness and we'll be right type of thing. Yeah, eat an exercise your way out of it. It's funny though, because I know when you speak about the tingling and the left arm and this pressure on the left side of your chest, I know exactly what you're

talking about. And at certain points, I've questioned through the years, am I, is this a heart attack? Because if you Google it, it is, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm paying. And it's for me, it would get so bad at some points, not to the point where I would feel like I was dying, but where I couldn't lie on my left side, for example, like it would stop me from lying on my left side because I would feel like the pressure would become unbearable. And obviously, for me, the root of that was traced back

to my childhood and I was wondering for you, if it ignited any memories of your childhood or anything like that. Yeah, definitely. That blew my mind when you told me that when we were having that conversation that you experienced that same thing. Because I, for so many years, was just putting it down to work, stress, something, some other problem, but yes, when I found that out from you, it's... So yeah, as you mentioned, that all... I don't... Well, I mustn't have been during a lockdown because I was going to the gym, but it might

have been in between the lockdowns. I think it was between the first lockdown. I think it was between the first lockdown we had in Australia and the second one. And I did struggle a bit during that lockdown. That's when sort of went to some dark places, again, I mentioned after the injury, it put me to a bit of a dark place and the lockdown, no,

look, probably most of the world, put me to a bit of a dark place as well. And just some things from the past really started coming back, stuff that I'd repressed, then just buried for so many years, and it just started coming back, the lockdown for whatever reason, the heightened anxiety, whatever it was,

really started to bring it back. And essentially what happened is, when I was 10, I did experience some abuse as a child, sexual abuse, from an older kid, essentially. So, if any, I'm not sure who's going to listen to this, if anyone who knows me who's listening, it was not done by a family member or anyone who you would know if you're listening, it was not done by a family member or anyone

who you would know if you're listening, just to put that at rest straight away, just so their minds aren't wondering. But it was essentially an old, unabalhood kid who a lot of people looked up to and it's a cool kid, he does this and that and has a cool black and it's a bit older but it was hang around with the younger kids. So but still, you know, a kid or a young person himself, certainly not an adult. And I mentioned the song and the waves and how that stuff to me in my tracks was what was really the big part of that was the grooming. Because although our experiences were very different. The grooming.

The grooming is what really stood out. I look back at it now, as I said, I've buried it for so many years and just tried to justify it through. He was a kid too, so it's not important. It doesn't count. It's just like whatever. I was just trying to laugh it off.

Whatever experimentation. But when I look about, trying to laugh it off and pick whatever experimentation. But when I actually, when it came out, well, when it came back to the surface for whatever reason during lockdown and after repressing it for so many years, was the grooming and just thinking back about how it all happened, what I was told,

because it's still very clear, even though it was 10, I still remember it very well. All the bullshit that you were told and the the broad hypes that you were offered and the stories you're being spurned about, well what do you think that your dad and his friends do when they have barbecues and they hang out after they play golf and so this is just what happens. But don't tell anyone. Obviously that should have been a massive alarm bell, but you know, really think about it when you're 10. But you don't know, you don't know to think about when you're 10. To be clear as well, grooming being the web of manipulation, the process of manipulation, if anyone doesn't know the word grooming would be that. Yeah, yeah, the process of manipulation.

Remember how it started, you know, offering this, that lollies, footy cards, whatever it was, into being told those lies about, this is what your dad does. This is what your dad's friends do. This is just what people do, you know, so do it. Which is starting itself, because that kind of gives us the impression

that the kid, the older kid that was doing it to you, perhaps his father was doing it to him. Yeah, or someone, or someone. Well, I mean, it's interesting that he said, this is what your dad does, I guess, I think I'm actually never thought about that until just now. Whether that is an insight into where he may have experienced abuse, because likely he did, right?

I mean, he was in high school at the time I was in primary school, but there's still enough of an age gap. I guess looking at it and thinking, yeah, okay, this is fucked up, what happened. But I also tried to justify it all these years just by saying, well, that's not really, you know, it's not, no, no, no, it's kind of like... You tried to really experience what it was. Yeah, massively, it's not abuse, not a victim, no, no, no. And remember, you know, that happened a few times and then we drifted apart or what,

I think he moved away and never spoke to him and then when I got into high school myself, obviously that's when you get into high school, it's when you start being introduced to a few more things in the world, it might be different now with the access kids up to the internet, but certainly back then, it was like, oh, there's this whole new world of stuff

and information that you're being told in high school and coming into your early teenage years at that point. And when, obviously, you know, things were brought up and then you learn about different stuff and then people, it does make me think back of how homophobic society was back then, it certainly come a long way. But the gay jokes and the gay talk back then and you're at this and you're at that and when I got to hospital I guess is when I realized how fucked up that was what happened and I'm like, fuck. And it just wasn't straight away so whatever it was towards the end of year seven in your

eight out of it. Whenever it was, I just killed me. It just completely fucked me. And how did it impact your interactions with people from that point? Oh, it was bad. I guess on the outside, there was nothing really going on on the outside.

I wasn't acting out or doing anything like that, really, or being violent or anything. Actually, thinking back, I mean, there were a few incidents where I said some regretful things, could probably be a bit of a dick at times or whatever. Yeah, again, very young. It was only 12 at this point just coming into high school, just the audience and here and there, but then very quickly, just kind of withdrew. You were quite shy, no?

It was all internal. It was all internal. It was just this fucking war and rage and emotions and stuff and craziness going on inside, but on the outside, it was just like, quiet. Mute calm. I was very introverted. I remember that, for sure. I did struggle to talk to people, giving a talk in front of a class or something, and fuck them forget it. It's just because I still remember the thoughts back then was like people are going to know, people are going to find out. Fuck, like if someone looked at me, a teacher, I'd be like, fuck this teaching, no, what happened?

Yeah. I'm going to get expelled. I'm going to go to, I went to a a teacher, I'd be like, fuck this teacher knows what happened. Yeah. I'm gonna get expelled. I'm gonna go to, I went to a Catholic school, it wasn't like over the top street, but it was still strict enough back then, I suppose. Like, fuck, you know, go to hell and get kicked out of this school and- Psychological warfare. X communicated from the world,

or whatever crazy thought I was thinking back then, I don't know. But it was just this paranoia, this anxiety of that, everyone knew just other kids like I couldn't, could I could function. I was functioning. I could do my schoolwork and stuff, but I also wasn't in a way. It's kind of hard to explain.

No, I get it, I get it. You are functioning because it's still functioning in society, but like internally, it's psychological warfare as you're explaining it really is. And I am wondering because I know for me, when it happened to me, I specifically remember walking on the foreshore and promising myself, like, repeatedly, for an entire walk that no one would ever find out. No one could ever find out that I would hold this secret for the rest of my life, just that was this decision I made at 14 years old. Such a serious decision. Did you make a similar decision as a teenager, as a kid? Oh, 100%.

Yeah. I just remember being there, like just being that paranoid of anyone ever finding out of what happened just because of the shame. It's almost indescribable, the power of that shame and how much it affects your life. It just couldn't, like just, and that's when I just really started trying work on the

repressing of it. Like this didn't happen, but it just didn't happen, just, you know, but always connoisseur knew it was there in the back of my mind as well. And yeah, so I struggled with that for quite a while, I would say. So when school finished, that was, I remember that being a big relief. Like, I made it out of there. No, well, it found out I can leave that part of me behind and just move on and be an adult and go out into the world.

It was just like this beer at school, this beer, it was shame, it was such powerful emotions. And there's already enough going on at the last school anyway when you're a teenager. Absolutely. Yeah, that's where music first became a big outlet for me. That's what I wanted to know. So that's when I first started getting into the bands that I'd said this day, love, and will forever love, and playing the guitar as well myself, and never played in bands or anything.

I had a few sort of muckery on sessions with friends in the garage or whatever, but never played in this serious band. But it was just such a release. It was like a safe haven in a way. Playing the guitar, listening to those bands as music that was so influential at that time, Nirvana was one, Nirvana Metallica of Green Day, offspring, Blink 1-8-2, all these bands that were coming out there

that were just fell in love with this style of music. Yeah, that was huge. So music was something that helped you get through what about exercise? Not so much back then, no. I mean, I played sport as a kid, football and cricket. I remember I was always been an average football player, but it was probably okay at cricket for a period of time. But I remember that really affected the sport as well.

And just the psyche, just the stuff that was going through, I went from being okay, doing okay, doing okay, to just being fucking useless, basically. Yeah. I just, mentally I was not there. I just couldn't just with sport and everything, it just had such a great effect. And some people I guess I've read and heard about stories

where they use that and they're able to channel that into the sporting endeavors and other endeavors and stuff for me it was the opposite. I'll just... It's more into what I'm basically. Yeah, so I'll stop playing football pretty young actually and picked it back up later in life when I got into early 20s I think I started playing again for a bit, but kept playing cricket, but it was just, yeah. It was just, again, never, it was never at a high level,

but I guess just, it was something that I had shown a little bit of glimpses of promising at times and asked to try out for reps, quads and stuff. And it was at that time, I was just really starting to just, no, this is, I can't function. And it's interesting that you say that I've also read where people are able to channel their emotions

into like, sport as a medium. For me, the same thing happened with ballet. I stood down so much and when everything got too much, I explained myself as a bucket that started spilling over. You know, I was like way too full when everything started spilling over. And ballet was the first thing I can't. I couldn't be there anymore in that environment.

It's because I couldn't concentrate. My mum was everywhere. You know, I couldn't focus anymore on that. So it's interesting that you say that. Only recently that I started picking up dance again, as you said, you got back in it after a break. Yes. Yeah, like it's really interesting, the different ways that people can channel it and approach it

How we've both experienced the similar thing we're not being able to function but other people just use it to drive them The success essentially all the way to the to the type of various fields sporting and others Like there's no right or wrong way that everyone experiences things differently It's so true. So once you left school, you got through that. Okay, you got through school. No one, you're great, secrets kept. Now you're out of school. What happens?

So continued working at that fast food chain after school and just was, I came from sort of like a, there was a strict upbringing, I suppose, I'm not strict in the sense of like abusive, but if it's pretty strict, like in terms of school work and career and this is all so important, you need to have your life mapped out and know what you're going to do by the time you're 17 or whatever, by the time you're finished school. So yeah, it was kind of like, well, you're going to uni, what are you doing doing this, that defence force or whatever else? And yeah, I don't know. So went with the career at that point, went through this studies and then into the career and point, went through their studies and then into the career. And they just did that basically. As I said, went back to sport during those early 20 years,

just socially, not a community sport, not at any high level, but that was good. And did get into a bit of hard, hard binge drinking. Mm-hmm. At that time, so I guess after high school, that was like the coping mechanism in a way just to go hard on the drink. Not every day. So it's certainly like, you know, not what, if you think alcoholic every day always pissed, certainly wasn't that, but it was just like, when I went out or when I had, there was no such thing as a few quiet drinks.

Yeah, and so I guess that, that was a bit of a battle for a couple. You're not a battle woman, I don't think it ever really affected my life too negatively, but obviously it's not a healthy habit just to completely write yourself off as much as possible. Although, again, thinking back, well, there wasn't violent, criminal acts. There were instances of just misbehaving a bit, just being a bit of a dick, again, saying some pretty regretful things to some people. Cost a couple of friendships. Just due to stuff said, well, blonde drunk.

Probably cost a relationship as well, not from really anything, or particularly said or did, but just the behavior, I guess. And again, look, not criminal, not violent, not abusive, but just... It's not healthy. That heavy binge drinking, writing yourself off like that. But during those years, when you were experiencing, when you were drinking and that became the outlet,

were the memories still haunting? Or were you able to block it out? Less, less so at that time. But it was still obviously drinking to forget that as well, because they'd still come up. They would still come up and like, fuck, what, how did I let that happen? How did that happen? Like, what? Still there, just not as strong as they were as the years went on, but still obviously went back to that guilt and shame and feeling sorry for yourself and all that stuff and just say, well, let's get fucked up.

Never dabbled in drugs. It was always just alcohol. So that's a positive, I guess. Not that I'm anti drugs, but, like, that wasn't healthy, but I was doing it to our cause. So it would definitely have been good. Had, you know, certain circumstances presented themselves or, you know, you zig when you should exact in life and that gets presented or whatever, that could have got pretty ugly, I think. But it did work for you for a certain point of time to be able to continue to function,

as you said, and continue to present yourself in everyday life. That was what you knew to do at the time. When did that change into something else? I probably still would have been around that time, in that sort of early 20s period where I really started to get into the fitness side of things, even though the binge drinking was still strong, it was also starting to channel it into the fitness. It's a balance. You're not doing both, you know, you're right yourself off to four o'clock in the morning and get up and go to the gym, why not?

Not quite. But yeah, so that's when I really got heavily into the fitness side as well. And I found that to be a very positive outlet, much more positive than binge drinking, obviously. But with the binge drinking stuff, it was like I was still working full time. And when work was work, because there was no drinking of,

you know, work was quite,, it only days off and stuff. But the fitness was a big thing for me, for sure. Then probably around maybe that mid-20s period, what have been a little bit later, I actually discovered a CrossFit. Oh, you became a CrossFit cult member. Yes, very much so. I was very, very into CrossFit. Again, not particularly good at it,

but just was just that outlet because it was so intense, the exercise. And you know, when I really started getting hooked into it, I was training multiple times a day and my life revolved around working out, basically. Not very smartly either, because I loved it so much and was just training so hard and after training, you feel so good

and you're not thinking about any of these other things that you're trying to run away from in your life, they just wanted to keep doing it. So I trained two times a day, three times a day, whatever, just tried, looked up like elite programs that like top level athletes, but were following and trying to sort of keep up with that, doing absolutely zero recovery work. Which is there? Yeah. Not looking after my body at all, just train, train, train,

and then do like a five second hammy stretch at the end. Like, yeah, it's good. Yeah, great, try again. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that became my outlet. Yeah, so yeah, that became my outlet. But and so it's, I really resonate with everything that you're saying. I'm interested in understanding what made you break the promise to yourself that you made to not tell anyone and tell someone.

That was, that had to do with whatever came as life went on, it became less and less, and eventually sort of got to the point where I wasn't, I hadn't really thought about it, I never really thought about it anymore. What happened? Just like done, at least not at the forefront of my mind. I was obviously buried, I'd successfully buried it. I guess it was.

But when you had buried it, were you telling yourself that you had overcome it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I thought it's done wherever it is buried. It's gone. It was just kids being kids. It wasn't abuse.

It's fine. Let's just move on. We're done. We're done. We're done. I guess I was still thinking about it because I was still trying to justify it, but I thought I had overcome it. But then for whatever reason, I still remember there's the lockdown. That increased anxiety, the anxiety levels of everyone, what's going on.

It just came flooding back out. I know it just hit me massively out of nowhere. Yeah. And then that was a struggle, that was really a struggle. And I'm trying to deal with that, then I did mention the tingles and the chest pain that I experienced constantly throwing them off. I'm an off, that was obviously, I think that's what happened that day in the car, that unaddressed childhood trauma just went dang. And I forget when it was exactly, but it was one of the doctors or the specialists when

they said that it wasn't a hard attack, you're healthy. The idea of a panic attack was floated. Like, like, if you had a panic, maybe you've had a panic attack or something. Okay. And I remember thinking, well, I'm not like there's not really anything going on in my life that would cause that. Like, it's not a particularly stressful time. You know, I just record an episode. It was fine, went good, it's going in the gym,

it's going to do a bit more work after the gym, like, how could it be a panic attack? But then, I just came to the realization that I had to tell someone about this, because of the way it just came, just whacked me back in the face, all those memories. So I did tell someone for the first time, so what are we talking about, 25 plus years after it happened? Yeah, wow. You were the second person that I told. Remember calling you up under the guise of, you were the second person that I told. Remember calling you up under the guise of, hey, Rekoul, look, so I've got this friend

and this is what happened to them. This friend wants to know, I think you probably thought it was straight through that. Yeah, I remember saying, I think you should ask your friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wasn't fooling you and that's when I just came out and then I remember yeah because I remember saying so Do you reckon like my friend like this age gap but

Probably probably wasn't good was it wasn't But then I told you and It's a very powerful Yeah, it was it really was and I never would have done that recall without silent waves. Really? Wow. That's the truth of the matter. I'm so humbled. Hearing your courage and the power of that. And I know you've had many emails telling you similar stories about how it's helped people have listened to that. And yeah, I just found it so powerful and the one thing, and this is how I found out that you were experiencing those tingles

and the tightness of the chest. The one thing that's come out since I have told some people, apparently I'm telling a lot more people now, but that tightness of the chest and the tingles I haven't had at since. Wow, wow, I do wanna talk more about that, but I remember when you told me about your experience for the first time that I thought I was so humbled, but also I was like, wow, Casey is my audience.

I made this story for Casey, as well as all the other people who had been through something similar. Because I always say we have our personal stories, but there's a collective narrative that exists. And that's why when you talk about the tingling in your arm and the pressure on your chest, I resonate. That's why I understand we understand each other in a way that you can only understand if you've been through

something similar and that's a lot of people. It's not just you and I, as you were saying. And I think your courage now to share parts of your story and the hope of helping others is something so admirable. And I want to say about the time we were together in London earlier this year. And I experienced this moment that I remember for the rest of my life because it's the founder of CaseFile, like Casey himself sat the team down at a restaurant. Some members of the team, that is not everyone was there. People, there were just one of the writers, Mike, Paulina, you and I. Exactly. And you actually shared that story to us as the boss, the founder of the company talking

in a way to people who work for you in a way that was so open and honest and raw, you know, it was like completely raw. And I think at that moment we all respected you so much more for what it was that you did. And I wanted to know about why you've decided to share this part of your story. Yeah, I think it's just another part in the process for myself as well, it being able to just be open about it and because I know how much you sharing your story and your family sharing this story helped me. And that's where I thought, well, when I was talking, when we were talking about this in London,

I thought, well, if I can do that for someone else, I'm happy to do that. Essentially, it was what it boils down to. And that conversation in London, that, as you know, that stems from a, had somewhat of another panic attack leading up to that London trip where it all came back again and I thought, you know, because you think there's different stages of a journey think, okay, I've told a few people now I'm fixed, not quite. It sort of came, it all came back again, I was having a bad time for a couple of days there.

And I went to the airport and turned around and went home. Yes, you did. As you know, as I know, just, no, blames it on a lot of things. There were a few, there were a few things. People were asking me obviously, friends and stuff, what's going on? What are you, oh, it's just the COVID, COVID issue, such a low hanging fruit that you can blame it on. Yeah, it's a COVID. I didn't get a COVID test and, you know, it was stuff up or whatever. Come up with some cover story. But yeah, that was, again, just such a,

I don't know where it comes from, I don't know what happens, just such a dark, dark time. And I've never been the world's biggest fan of flying, I suppose, but it's never stopped me. You can look, I'm always happy to book a flight and go somewhere, go on holidays. But for whatever reason, it was just all singing about was death and this plane's going down.

And but it wasn't just like surface level. Like, oh, plane doesn't crash or it was just like this, all these darkness that was come back again. It's so hard to put into words. But I remember going to see someone speaking and they made me realize, like, you're holding on to this, it's not, forget planes. You're holding on to this, yes, you've now started to address it, but she may be understand, you've held on to this for like 25 plus years. That's not a case of you've told a few people,

now you're fixed. You've got a lot of work to do, and then she explained different things, and just how what I was experiencing was all linked back to that, and what happened to childhood, and yeah, it was a very good, very powerful discussion. And just to open my eyes a little bit for, there's still a

ways to go on the journey. And you hopped on a flat the next day after that conversation was in Ramjyn London. No one understood anything. Yeah, yeah, like what the fuck is going on? Um, yeah, that's, I was just such a powerful conversation that I had now with the person, you know, who I'm talking to. Yeah, they just really were able to make me see it for what it was, what I was essentially having another panic attack,

but without the symptoms of that tingles and the tightness of the chest. Yes, exactly. And what about the talk, the self-talk in your mind, what I'm particularly interested in for these type when we talk about abuse is that we've you've mentioned shame a lot, but I'm wondering about the rage, the anger, how you, what you think about how would justice be served. What do you think about that? Like does that take up any of your thoughts or not?

Yeah, it has for sure over the years because you envision just knocking on someone's door and just fucking building the fuck out of them or trying to do anyway. Start thrown and see what happens to type of thing. Yeah, they might get the better view but just trying to inflict some Physical pain on the person. I'm sure that's probably a

normal reaction. Yeah, a lot of people have No, I shouldn't say that there's no such thing as a normal reaction, but that's just a reaction that I had Thoughts that I had, thoughts that I had. And then they would come and go various times in my life. Maybe if I do that, they'll make it all better. And obviously it's not going to achieve anything. But I have had those thoughts for sure. And where are your thoughts at now?

Are they not there? Are they focused on yourself and your healing or where you are at? Very much focused on myself and my healing. I haven't thought about it. I haven't had those thoughts for a while since it's pretty much talking to you and talking to other people and trying to work through it and address it and stuff. Yeah, I realize that it's myself that I need to work on not. Yes. You know, and at the end of the day, as we said, it's obvious what happened to me, happened to the person who did it to me. We did mention that, I mean, it's obviously we can't confirm it, but these cycles usually don't start when we're introduced to them, I would say.

Yeah. It's really interesting when we talk about, you mentioned about doing something and then thinking that, okay, that's the end of it and that's the end of it and then that's the end of it and then you can't get on a plane And you're like okay, but now I can get on a plane So that's the end of it and I think it's important to remember It's kind of lifelong work. We kind of got to keep working through it in different ways over the course of our life And part of that I'm a strong proponent for the power of conversation To do that and to contribute to what we were talking about this collective

narrative of similar experiences in relation to abuse. On that note, I would like to thank you once again for being so generously sharing that part of your story with us, Casey. And I hope that it's able to reach who it needs to. Thank you, thank you for having me, Rickl, and thank you for sharing your story. And thank you to your family. I mean, I think it's very important as well and that's why I couldn't believe when you said that you were pitching silent waves to other places prior where they said, no.

But as soon as I heard silent waves, I I was like this is very powerful and people need to hear this and how do we make that happen. As many people as possible, very important. Well thank you so so much as you know I am the biggest fan. The biggest fan. It's mutual. Thanks for joining us for the first ever episode of Unfiltered. If you'd like to know more about CaseFile or the other podcast case he is working on, check out CaseFilePresents.com. you