Chambers of the Occult - EP# 16 Bloodthirsty and Breathless: The Butcher of Hanover and The Choking Ghost of Waikiki

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

In this chilling episode we delve into two terrifying tales that will leave you breathless. First, Kai will lead us to uncover the dark and twisted story of The Butcher of Hanover. Known for his gruesome acts, this dark figure preyed on young boys for years, leaving a trail of fear and devastation in his wake. Discover the horrifying details of his crimes and the lasting impact on the city of Hanover.Next, J will take you to the sun-soaked shores of Hawaii, where the Choking Ghost of Waikiki haunts both locals and visitors alike. Known for its terrifying attacks, this malevolent spirit has left many gasping for breath and desperate for answers. Learn about the eerie encounters and the mystery surrounding this haunting presence. Our guest Sabina takes us on a spine-tingling journey through the dark history of Chicago, where we explore a chilling case that will make you question what's really inside your sausages and leave you thinking twice about your next meal.  Don't miss out on this spine-chilling episode, and be sure to share your thoughts with us afterward—if you dare!Send us a Text Message.

Chambers of the occult may contain content that might not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Hello. Welcome back. Hi, it's Chambers of the Occult. Back at it again. This time we've also got another guest, guys. Aren't you excited? A new guest.

I'm Sabina. Yeah, we're here with Sabina. She is awesome. She is awesome. Hi, that's Jay. I'm Jayina. Yeah, we're here with Sabina. She is awesome. She is. That's, that's Jay. I'm Jay. Hi. Yeah, I forgot.

We need to say that like every time. Wait, this is our first... Okay, Sabina, pronouns. Uh, she, or they, whatever we're feeling. Cool. She is the first female that we have on the podcast as a guest. Oh my gosh. It's a revolutionary time, folks. It is a revolutionary time. Everyone say thank you to your closest woman for me.

Thank you, Sabina. My mom will be home soon. I'll tell her thank you in a bit. But anyway, we are excited to have listeners back once again, excited to have another guest here. I don't know, anything we want to mention before we get started? Oh, I just wanted to let people know that Sabina was, is, my wife? Oh yeah. We're still very excited about that this year. For theatre Halloween purposes. Not actually.

And like this year I still think like it's undetermined. We're married in spirit. Yeah. Okay. I like the sound of that. Yeah. But it's supposed to be a told death do part. So is this like a spirit marriage?

Yeah, we'll have to look into it. It's like a common law thing, I feel like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Would you guys technically get a claim to like the Hall of Fires then for like squatters rights or? Oh, definitely. Like the whole house? We have talked about it because we have been there what, two years? Two years? Yeah. Yeah, I was hoping that it make it three years this time. And then like, we could like residual haunting there. Oh, yeah. Because that would be fun. Your are bound to a specific place.

We don't know that we're dead. It's just like us doing our daily things. Exactly. And one of them is a podcast. Let's go chambers of the occult. Woohoo! Princess Megan. Let's go. Chambers of the Occult. Thank you for being here. Yeah. And with that out of the way, you're a start us off, Kai, because you have true crime, right?

I do have true crime. Unfortunately, it's true crime. Sabrina? Sabrina. Wow, I'm sorry. Sabrina! What? Ouch. Wow. I'm sorry. What? Ouch. Wow. In my three years of knowing you, I think literally I've called you Sabrina. Did you guys know that? Did you guys know that? It happened. Or? Oh my God. I don't remember. I was just going to say. Okay.

Sit back. That's why we got a divorce. That's why we're undetermined. Yeah. That's why you're not together this year anymore. I said another woman's name. That's a big no when it comes to marriage. It's okay to need more. Yeah. I was just going to say, Sabina, sit back and relax and enjoy the stories and chime in whenever you want to. Yeah. Awesome. enjoy the stories and chime in whenever you want to. Yeah, awesome. I think enjoy is a very like, yeah, interesting choice of words. Listen. Or I think the people that tune into the podcast enjoy the true crime. Yeah, I'll favor it. Is that distasteful? No, No, no, no. I love doing true crime stories, but they're always like

the hardest to get through, you know? So I understand. Anyway, all right. Well, for my story, let me set the scene first of all. So imagine it's May of 1924 in Hanover, Germany. You're just living your life. It's a nice springtime around there. You're going about your days when suddenly you hear the news spread that there was a skull found in the nearby Lyna River. Oh. Okay.

Yeah. The days keep passing. Yeah. I was gonna say, it's not like, you know, shells come to the shore and this river skulls. Just a skull washes in? A skull. You know, nothing too alarming at first,

but the days keep passing by and another school turns up. Oh. Then another. Body parts. Then another. Then another. You fear that you find it.

What's too many for me? I think one is too many. Yeah. It definitely is. Unfortunately, that's not where it stops, because you fear that you've finally discovered the fate of the multiple missing boys and young men in your city. No. The more than 500 human bones found later in the river would only confirm that. So I don't really know what would have been more alarming. The fact that the majority of the remains belonged to males aged between 15 and 20, that the bones showed evidence of being dissected at their joints or the fact that by court doctors was determined that there

were the remains of over or at least 22 different individuals grouped in with what was found. Whoa that's a lot though. So this happens and everything changes. What do you do? Now the person, this was obviously done by somebody, a very evil person. There was fear, there was panic in Hanover when it was discovered. The person who committed this, he was given a name. He was called the Butcher of Hanover. That's really where it begins. No, the, this wasn't his only name. This man, he was a man of many names, actually. I will admit, they're kind of cool. And I hate that serial killer names can be cool from time to time, honestly.

It sucks a lot more when, I don't know what sucks more when like the police gives them the nickname or like the public gives them the nickname. Yeah. Or when they like self proclaim themselves as like ace with a certain title. Oh, I hate that. I yeah, I hate it's like so self centered of them to like, because it's like, oh, you

just want the attention like, fuck you. That's why you're killing. But also when the public gives them nicknames, it's like, come on, guys. Like, why are you? Why are you naming him? Yeah, why are you sensationalizing him? It's crazy. But, um, yeah, the butcher of Hanover was one name, the vampire of Hanover, um, and also the wolf man. Um, and in a little bit I'll get into why those names came up. But I think, because I think that's like a big jump between butcher to vampire to what was it like werewolf? Yeah It'll it'll unfortunate the wolf man. Yeah, it'll unfortunately make a lot of sense later on but Yeah, so

Later of course his identity wasn't known at first but later the man who committed these crimes would be known his name was who committed these crimes would be known. His name was Friedrich Harmann. He would go by Fritz, so I'll call him Fritz or Harmann throughout this. He was a German serial killer, serial rapist from about 1918 to 1924 in Hanover, Germany. So during his spree, I guess you could call it, it was found that he killed 24 different people, though it was believed that other people believe it's at least 27, but people think it could have even got up into the 40s, 50ss even higher of how many people he did Managed to kill during that time

Which was a shit ton of people yeah, yeah So stuff for how long the period was where people went missing 1918 to 1924 so about six years. Oh, yeah, that's a long time. It wasn't just like straight up like he took breaks, I guess, but that was definitely still a lot. Maybe a break from that town. I don't know if he took breaks. Do you guys know of like the, I'm sure you guys do, but the the like the concept and

the debate of like nature versus nurture. And I feel like this and so many serial killer cases are such like an interesting mix of both. Yeah, like, like you look into their background and all of them have such a shitty childhood. But also like once they got older, it was just like, you could tell something just wasn't exactly right with them. And Carmen is no different. So he was born in Hanover, Germany on October 25th, 1879. He had a big family. He had five older siblings. So he was the sixth and youngest child in his family. He was born to bad person. He, you know, was not

great. He would beat his children. He was a businessman who was always too busy to ever be or have a relationship with his kids. And so Harmon and the rest of the kids, you know, they found a lot of comfort in their mother, but, mother Johanna, but Johanna was actually like very sickly. She was not in the greatest health during his childhood. And so typically like instead of sending out Harmon to go play, she encouraged him to, you know, stay inside and really keep to himself, be quiet. So that's what he was. He was a very reserved child. He was quiet. He stayed inside. He barely learned any social skills because he never really interacted with any other children outside of the school that he barely even went to and his siblings of course. So from like a very early age it was

noted that he was very effeminate. He would regularly like play with his sister's dolls and you know dress in their clothes, play house with them, things like that instead of you know going out and doing traditional boys stuff. Yeah and I mean I think that's what he came up to do. I mean I think that was the only alternative if he had to stay in at the house. Exactly so like I don't honestly see that as anything crazy like that was just what he had, what he was working with, what his mom wanted him to do. crazy. Like that was just what he had, what he was working with, what his mom wanted him to do. So I mentioned, you know, his father, Ali, was not a great man. His father, Ali, married and his mom, Johanna, got married when she was 41 and he was 34. So she was seven years older than him. And basically the reason why they got married is because she was rich and he was

very excited about the money that he would eventually get for marrying into this family. Now I'm crushing the sickness. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. I didn't even think of that. You know? Blame them as well. I didn't even think of that. Died, true crime, peace there. Bonus story. But yeah, they did not have a great relationship whatsoever. There was like basically no love, no loyalty there. Harmon, senior, he was short tempered, he was very cold, he had many affairs

throughout the marriage. Eventually he got syphilis because of all of his affairs that he had. Fuck you. You deserve it. Yeah. Literally, womp, womp. But even with him being an asshole, the parents stayed together until Harmon's mom, Johanna, died in April of 1901. So that's how sort of Harmon grew up in his earliest childhood. He was born in 1879, but so in 1886 when

he was seven years old about, he began school. He was terrible in school. He was a very bad student. I guess his behavior was fine, but his academic performance was terrible. And so his teachers a lot of the time kind of hated him in class. He was just not a performer. Was he also misbehaving or was he just bad academically? He was just bad academically. He, they actually, a lot of his, or noted by his teachers, they would call him spoiled and mollycoddled and he was very prone to daydreaming in class. So look, there's a child without parents, isn't he spoiled? Yeah, what's his problem? Yeah, fuck that kid, holy shit. He'd be like every other kid. I'm gonna fail him. Come on, get an education, you know, spend half of his life in school, and then once he

turns 10 years old he can work at the factory like that's how it goes Once he's an adult. Yeah, exactly. Once he's an adult at the ripe age of 10 years old 1886 like Yeah, um Yeah, so it was around that time when he, he would get molested by one of his teachers. And so that was something he did reveal in like later interviews, but he never really discussed more details about it. So even when he got away from home, he couldn't get away from like neglect and abuse. Exactly. Yeah. So, um, you know, as much as like you as much as I want to feel bad for him, it's like knowing like what he grew up into is just like, hey,

like kind of crazy. Little bad for the child. Yes, still bad for the child, but not for the man. Not for the cycle at some point. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, he kind of tried in a way. He grew up into a pretty like

capable young man. He finished school in 1894, so he was about 15 at this point. He finished school and once he left he just he tried to get away. He got a job as like an apprentice locksmith in Neuf-Bzac. It's a part of, now it's a part of France, but it was, um, sort of like a treaty area back then. Yeah. So he got a job as an apprentice locksmith. Um, but then while he was still 15, he decided he needed to get further away. He enrolled into a military academy, um, that was, um, a little bit further away from Hanover. It was a decent

bit away. So he tried. He tried to get away. He went to this Military Academy. His training began April 4th, 1895. So he was 15 and a half at this point, which is crazy! That's still so young. That's a baby. Yeah. I was sitting in my room, crying to sad music at 15. What? I had just discovered Fallout Boy. Yeah. I had said my first cuss word for the first time or something like that. I don't know. And here he was. And here he was, literally.

So he went into military school. He did very well, actually. He adapted really good to military life, and he started to accept this new life of his. But after only five months of military service, he was essentially sent back to Hanover because he suffered lapses of consciousness. He eventually went to medical professionals. They basically told him he had like something that was a equivalent to epilepsy, is what the doctors said. So he was pretty much diagnosed with epilepsy

which forced him to go back home, back to you know the family he was trying to get away from. So he returned to Hanover, he worked in a cigar factory that his father had established because that's really the quickest work that he got. And after this brief stint of trying to make himself better, it seemed like he just kind of gave up. At 16 is when he, I guess, committed his first crime away, his first offense. So his first sexual offenses, that was was yeah, he was only 16. He began to lure young boys from the community. He would lure them into like cellars or other areas

he had access to because of like the warehouses and the cigar factory he was working in. He would sexually abuse the young boys that he brought inside. So that happened for range. Do you have an age range for those kids? Not these ones exactly. There wasn't too much detail, but all of his, I guess, victims usually were around, I would, I want to say 12 to 15 around that age, so a little

bit younger than him at this point. Okay. This went on for about a year or two. He was eventually then arrested in July of 1896. So he was arrested, he was investigated, but I guess he he was almost tried in a like, how do I word this, he instead of directly going to jail, he was placed in a mental institution in in February of 1897. It was that the year pretty much after that. So he did spend some time in jail, but they realized that that wasn't exactly what he needed in a way. He was transferred over to other Hanover hospitals for psychiatric evaluation. Eventually he was deemed quote incurably deranged by psychologists. A psychologist named Gert Schmelmulfs.

Schmalfels. Schmalfels. Schmalfels. Gert Schmalfels was the psychologist. That sounds like a mouthful. A Schmalfel? Nice. So Schmalfel essentially deemed him unfit to stand trial. He was psychotic, so he was confined at a mental institution indefinitely and that's where he was gonna stay so he was returned there on May 28th of 1897. Now he stayed in there at the mental institution for about seven months up until January of 1898 and that's when he escaped. Oh! He did not want to be in the hospital.

No, he didn't. It was not medicated. Did they even have medications then? I don't even know. They probably had stuff that would kill us now. I'm pretty sure that everything was

like arsenic or something else. Literally. Oh, you have anxiety. Here's some cocaine for you. Yeah, that'll settle you down. Easy. Oh, you're sick. Let's just like drain you of a quarter of your blood. Yeah. Bring in the lead. Love letting was a huge thing.

Yeah. Yeah, he escaped the man. He escaped. But the crazy thing about that is apparently he had assistance from his mother, who helped him to then flee to Zurich, Switzerland. Ma'am, ma'am, I understand this is your child, but you don't think that there's a reason he's in a mental institute? Right? I mean, I guess she didn't think so. Or she was just like, my poor boy. Yeah, boys will be boys.

Oh, no. No, no, no, no. He went to Zurich, Switzerland. He lived there for a while. He got a job as a handyman in a shipyard. He lived there for 16 months until he moved back to Hanover in April of 1899. Now the reason he moved back to Hanover is because earlier or because the year before that 1898 he got engaged to a woman named Erna Lowe and she accidentally became pregnant

with his child so he left. But she wasn't in Switzerland? She was. Yeah, she lived in Switzerland. Oh, okay. I felt like she did not live in Switzerland. And I'm like, yeah, I thought he was like stepping up. Yeah, I was like, how does this pen pals like thing work? He traveled horse and carriage. Long distance. Yeah, he got this lady pregnant and he was like, fuck no. And he went back to Hanover. So that was 1899, April. Now he lived there for a year and nothing much really happened. It wasn't until 1900 that he actually, he had to go back or he got the notification that he had to

complete his compulsory military service which to me doesn't really make that much sense because they sent him away yes like why would they call him back from military service after the first time didn't work out. Yeah. I also think the military would say, hey, you ran away. You're an escapee. Yeah, I'm not there. Yes. Tell us about it. Oh, yeah, you escaped from a mental institution. Let's hand you a gun.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, basically modern America. Yeah, yeah, basically modern America. Yeah. No, yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. But yeah, he joined military again, October 1900, he was deployed. And he actually once again, earned a reputation of being a very good soldier. He was an excellent marksman. He was very well trusted.

He later went on to describe that this service, this military service, was the happiest time of his life. That, of course, once again, didn't end very long because a year later, 1901, he would collapse while doing an exercise. He was hospitalized, he had dizzy spells, and so over the course of months he was treated, but he was once again deemed unsuitable for military service and he was sent back home yet again. Cheese. To his mother? Yeah, to his home, to his mother. Well, his mother was, she had passed away at this point. She died April 1901. He was discharged July 28th of 1902. So about a year she had

already passed, but his father was still alive. Oh and he was probably like enjoying that money. Oh yes he was and even after he got discharged he still had his monthly pension, his military pension and that's pretty much what he lived off of. So he was medically discharged, he was not fully So he was medically discharged. He was not fully diagnosed with anything. It was something along the lines of schizophrenia or something belonging to the autism spectrum, but there was never an official diagnosis. And they don't think to send him back to the mental hospital? I don't think to send him back to the mental hospital. I don't know. It's just I understand that this is like over a hundred years ago. People thought differently diseases and everything was looked at differently, but I'm like this is concerning.

Yeah. No, it seriously is. I don't know. After he got discharged like he he tried to go back home, he got work at that cigar factory yet again. But after that, the year later, so it's about 1903 at this point, he actually gets into a very violent fight with his father because like legal proceedings as a whole like suits and everything, apparently there were like you know death threats and blackmail and stuff like that because because his father Harmon Sr. was trying to get Harmon to go back like to the

mental institutions to just get him out of his life Pretty much. I wonder did did his mom leave him anything and maybe he was trying to The dad was trying to take that for himself who There's nothing that I found that really would just point to that but I I wouldn't like discredit that at all That's something super plausible. He also probably just hated him from what it sounds like. 100%. Yeah. I mean, they hated each other is what it sounds like. So they both got pretty

much arrested for this. You know, there was a whole court proceeding, but the court sided with the son. All charges were dropped due to a lack of like, like, witness evidence, stuff like that. And I'm sure if there was a jury, they probably were just like, yeah, this dad is an asshole. And we like the son. But because of this whole thing of like, you know, returning to the mental institution, whatever, Fritz Tormann, he was once again put under psychiatric examination. But the doctor concluded that there was really nothing wrong with him, that quote, he was morally inferior, but not mentally unstable. Okay, so now he was deemed normal. He used to describe people as just mind boggling. Yeah, imagine someone goes, you're morally inferior.

You are a terrible person. But I don't know. There's really nothing. You're not mentally ill. Yeah. You're just whoop-de-doo. What? It gets tabbed? Apparently and morally inferior. So. I guess it's fine then. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. fine though. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

I don't know. So for the next decade or so, Harmon pretty much just tried to live somewhat normal life. But the monthly pension he was getting from the military, it wasn't enough. So he also turned to petty theft, small burglary. He was a bit of a con artist as well. He like moved around circles in the black market pretty much. So what? What? I'm not exactly sure. I do have some things he got into a little bit later, which I'll talk about in just a bit. But as for right now, not really too sure.

But if he ever got actual work, he just ended up stealing from the customers and stealing from his employers, stuff like that. like actual work, he just ended up stealing from like the customers and stealing from his employers, stuff like that. So throughout this time, he did serve lots of short prison sentences. He probably spent about a third of this next decade of his life in jail. So on a first name basis. Yeah, pretty much the police knew this guy. They knew this guy, larceny, embezzlement, minor assault, all stuff like that. So yeah, he spent so much of this next decade or so of his life in jail, from about 1905-ish to 1913, somewhere around those years.

So this turn comes around, he's actually in jail in 1913. He's sentenced to a five-year imprisonment because he stole some property. But because of the outbreak of World War I, he actually was released from prison. During the days, he was allowed to work and be out in the city. He was officially released in prison on April of 1918. And I mentioned that he was really close with the police, right? Because he got a lot, got arrested a lot by them. But he was such a known person that he became a police informant. What? Yeah, he became a police informant to help take stuff away from him to help

them out. And they trusted him. And they trusted him for some reason. I don't know. No, he got out of jail Oh lord, no. So he got out of jail... Desperate times? Desperate times, yeah. So it's like, you know, 1919. At this point, he is a well-known informant to the criminal network of the city.

He cooperates with the police. And this helps remove so much suspicion to what Harmon does. And that ultimately is what allows him to get away with all of the murders that he committed. He's right under their noses. Exactly. So, during this time, he did not stop with his, I guess, like sexual assault of young boys around the city. He would still take advantage of them posing as a trusted adult who could go, he would invite them in, feed them because there was lots of, you know, poverty and people were struggling because of World War I, pretty much. And so

he sort of made himself out to be this trusted figure that people could turn to, especially young boys in the area. He would invite them in, he would feed them, he would molest them, but typically he would, you know, let them go and they just never really said anything. But it wasn't until September 25th of 1918 when it would go further than just the assault that he was initially doing. So this is September... So this is escalated. Yes. September 25th of 1918 is when Harmon would murder his first victim. So it was a 17 year old boy, his name was Friedl Roth. So

Herman at this point pretty much was known for bringing children and young boys into his home. His neighbors would literally watch it happen, watch boys come and go. Sometimes they would even let the police know. But for five years, six years, the police just turned a blind eye to what Harmon was doing because he was such a trusted informant. They didn't care, honestly. Yeah, no, amazing, right? So that's what they did. So it was one night, the night of September 5th, I guess, when some of his neighbors reported that there was a teenage boy who they'd seen in previous days going in and out, and they saw him going into this place earlier in the day. They let the police know.

The police originally were not going to investigate it, but so many of the neighbors came forward and were like, hey, we need you to investigate this. But they finally went. They went into his home and they found Harmon in bed with a young teenage boy. And so the worst that the police could do was just arrest him for sexual assault. And that's what they did. But since they, you know, didn't really care, they didn't fully search his home. And what they didn't find was the head of the child, Friedel Roth, just hiding behind his stove is what Harmon actually later detailed so hold on hold on hold on are you telling wait okay sorry go ahead like wait what

just go ahead keep going okay okay okay okay okay very slow rate. Okay. So, yeah, the police, you know, raided, so let me go back a little bit. Friedel Roth, he was, you know, that 17-year-old boy, he was reported missing on September 5th of 1918. And so there was a sort of, you know, citywide search for him going on at the time. And because of the pressure from the neighbors and from Roth's family, that's why the police were essentially forced to investigate Harmon's apartment. Now, they didn't find Roth, the boy that was missing, but of course they found that other 13 year old boy in bed with Harmon at the time. So he was tried with sexual assault, battery of a minor, and he was sentenced to a whopping nine months imprisonment. That'll do it. And I'm sure he did not serve all nine months, or did he?

No, he avoided serving his sentence for an entire year. You can just do that? I guess so. He was cool with the police, right? Yeah. You're on our... I'm going to... That's fine.

I'll take the nine months, but I'm going to put it on hold for now. Exactly. Yeah. Like, let me just, you know take get my affairs in order then yeah and they're like sure sure as long as you keep being our informant yeah no problem and you get also not to mention that homosexuality was still illegal in Germany at this time. Except people were trying to turn a blind eye to it and the police really didn't care all that much. They didn't want to spend their resources arresting gay men, I guess.

But Are you saying that they should have? arrested this gay man. So that was his first known victim, but that's not where it ended. So September of 1918. 1918 was his first one, but of course he wasn't charged with it. Nobody knew that he even killed this boy because the police didn't properly 1923 about when his, sorry 1922 when his first, his next victim was killed. It was another 17 year old boy named Hans Keims, I believe if that's how you pronounce it. There are like German names. So Hans was a later possible victim that was found, but it wasn't fully known, I guess. So this boy, Hans, he was 17, he was a boy from the community, he was found strangled, and there was a handkerchief that was found lodged in his throat. But this handkerchief, it had the name of Hans

Grands on it. And Hans Grands was pretty much, I don't know, pretty much Harmon's boyfriend at the time. Yeah. So. It was around 1919 when Harmon would meet Hans Grands. He was an 18 year old. He ran away from home in Berlin. So the two of them, they, Grands and Harmon, they essentially got together. They lived with each other in the apartment for years and they started working together. They would sell clothes and things like that in the markets to help earn some money to live. And later on in Harmon's trials, he actually sort of detailed that Granz would help him out with at least the selection of some of the kids that he would go on to murder. So yeah, so he would essentially, you know, tell him to kill the handsome ones, like the handsome boys and things like that. Anyway, yeah, Granz became an accomplice and lover of Harmon throughout

the years while Harmon was killing. So the kid, the 17-year-old Hans Keims, while it's not sure if he was officially a victim, because of that handkerchief, there's a possibility it could have been there. Oh, yeah. But I guess the official second victim of Harmon was a boy named Fritz Franca. He was 17, this happened in 1923, February 12th, 1923. He was a 17 year old kid. Harmon encountered him at Hanover Central Station, so like the train station.

He invited him over because he was a pretty much a runaway like youth just trying to make money to live. So Harmon invited him over, he introduced him to his boyfriend, Granz. And so basically, there's not really too much known about what had happened, but it is known that pretty much he was murdered that night. And so 1923 is when the murders really took off. Not exactly why, but... What year was it? 1923., Winchester

I wonder if Sarah knew about this guy If she like got my heart Yeah, I wonder I wonder if it made like national news because Because the police covered it up quite well. Oh, yeah. So even locals were not aware of it for a while. Yeah, seriously. They were not aware of it for about five, six years because the police just either turned a blind eye to

Harmon or they did not care and that's great because during those like five, six, seven years you're casually interacting with this man. Yep. And the entire time he is murdering children right under your nose. Like what if it was your own child? Very well could have been, you know? Do you ever wonder how many serial killers have you walked by throughout your life? It's crazy to think about. Like, there are, what's the number? There's like, I don't know, like 8, 15 active serial killers in the United States, like

at any given point or something like that. Geez. I remember hearing that a long time ago. I could be way wrong, but still way too many. Yeah, no, it's insane. Yeah, so 1923 and 1924 is when the murders really took off. In this span, Harman was later charged with the murders of 27 different people after this, just in essentially those two years of killing. And he pretty much, you know, stayed under wraps, he didn't really make himself too known up until that day in May of 1924,

when all of those bones started washing up on the Lyna River. That's when they were discovered. Was he just tossing bones into the river? So what he would do, his MO in a way was he would invite them back, he would feed them, he would give them something to drink, he would make sure they were very well nourished, make sure they were very comfortable, and then what he would do is he would take a bite right into their esophagus. No! God.

And that's why he's called the vampire of Hanover. Oh gosh. It's also why he's called the wolf man because of how how aggressive, how raw it was. So that's... Were they still alive at that point? Yeah, either they would bleed out or they would suffocate because their esophagus was torn out. He wouldn't typically kill them first. He called them his love bites. Eww. No sir, no.

That's so gross. Yeah. So he would he would do that. He would wait for them to die pretty much. He would then dismember their bodies. He would typically like butcher like chop chop their bones apart by their joints to basically make it more compact. He would sever their skulls from the vertebrae. And he would then just put them in bags or he put them in buckets. He'd put them in buckets and he'd just literally walk them down to the river and dump them in the middle of the night. Oh wow. Okay. No. I can, I do not want to imagine what those rooms look like. Oh yeah. No, it was, it was a bloody mess a lot of the time. Um, I mentioned and you asked about what he did in the black market. Oh, oh, go ahead.

I think I'm ready. He had a lot of extra meat from these murders. And he was super well loved. He was super well respected in the community in the lower markets, because he was super well loved. He was super well respected in the community, in the lower markets, because he was always friendly, he was always nice, and he always had such great deals on meat. No. And that's why a lot of people loved him. So that's how he got rid of like, the flesh?

Yeah. Oh. He said he would cut open their abdomens and he would take out their like intestines and their guts and he'd throw those in the buckets as well. He, it sounds so casual but this is a human being. Yeah, that's horrifying. It's, there's actually a quote from him during one of his trials. It's quote, I'd make two cuts in the abdomen and put the intestines in a bucket, then soak up the blood and crush the bones

until the shoulders broke. Now I can get the heart, lungs, and kidneys and chop them up and put them in my bucket. I'd take the flesh off the bones and put it in my wax cloth bag. It would take me five or six trips to take everything and throw it down into the toilet or into the river. I always hated doing this but I couldn't help it. My passion was so much stronger than the horror of the cutting and chopping. Oh you poor thing. I know such a hard life.

What a bummer. What were you gonna say, Sabina? I was gonna say it's just so like astonishing how he's so far removed from like the person. It's like, I'm gonna take the meat and the heart. Like that was a person. Yes, that is the like, I know I'm not supposed to like, understand it. But like, that is the hardest thing to like read about serial killers is how little or how much they just don't value life whatsoever. Like they don't speak of people as real people. It's just things for them to like play with or like kill. It's insane. It's very casual

It's very casual. Exactly. Yeah, I Don't know and so Yeah, he would kill those things and keep in mind that you know His boyfriend Grands was an accomplice in all of this while while Grands never directly took part in any of the murders, he typically was there to watch or he, you know, would go out for the night when he knew that somebody was gonna get murdered, he'd come back the next day, or he just helped choose whatsoever, or choose the victims in the first place. People were scared, like they knew something was happening because so many kids were just disappearing and there was not normal.

And that's why there was so much fear when all of those bones turned up. But because of what people knew of Harmon in the community, because he was pretty well known at this point, suspicion immediately fell onto him. People knew he lured young boys back into his home. They knew that he was an informant for the police. He was involved in some investigations. He had gone to jail. for the police. He was involved in some investigations. He had gone to jail. So he was very quickly put into suspicion for it. They were also still suspicious of the initial disappearance of

the first boy, Friedl Roth, that he killed back in 1918. So what the police did is they basically stalked him. They did an undercover like surveillance surveillance op Were they successful because at this point I'm sure that this man worked quite well with them Yes so they did work really well, but they did really good in their surveillance because they The police knew that he would frequent like the Hanover Central Station a lot where that's where he would pick up a lot of the, you know, traveling and runaway boys and such. Um, it's crazy that they knew that, but they are only acting on the information now, but whatever. That's, that's a different story.

But the thing was that since he was a Hanover, this is where your question comes into play Jay, since he was an informant for the Hanover police, it was determined that the Hanover police were not able to carry out this investigation. So they brought in two policemen from the Berlin police to actually handle the investigation, which was good of them. The two Berlin policemen, they posed as undercover officers, they observed his movement. So they watched him for a few days. Started June 18th in 1924 but the night of June 22nd was when he was observed with a 15 year old boy he was there arguing with that boy his name's Carl Fromm so Harmon went up to nearby police he tried to get the 15 year old boy arrested for

forging documents pretty much. But the police were already on alert because they knew Harmon was a suspect. And so the boy, he told the police that he actually had been living with Harmon for the last few days. He was being raped, assaulted. He said that he had a knife held to his throat at times. So Harman was then arrested and charged with sexual assault by the police. This is when they finally decided to actually search his home, his apartment. How many years later? Five years later. Oh no. Five years later. This is the man you at least chose to work with. Yes, yep, they chose to work with him

You mentioned something about how the room must have must have looked like and I said that it was a mess that's because it was Yeah, they they search his home and it said that the flooring walls and bedding were found to be extensively blood-stained So much blood around the apartment. Right? Like how terrible that must have been. Yeah. That house was in my soul. Harmon tried to play it off. He was like, oh, you know, I trade meat. Like I illegally trade contraband meat. And this is the blood of that. Right. They didn't. they didn't take his shit at that point, which is good. And so the police would of course go around to his neighbors, people in the community, talk to them, get eyewitness statements. There are so many people that came forward

that said that they would regularly see him leaving with like sacks or baskets or bags or things like very late in the evening, early in the morning. So there were people who had seen him doing these questionable things. Now, the police were almost, I guess, inclined to believe Harmon in the contraband meat type of thing. But they also found lots of different clothes and personal possessions of a lot of the young boys that were reported missing in the area, all the youths. So all of that was confiscated and the parents of all of the missing boys, they were invited in to look at the items to identify them. So many items were identified by the family members that that is essentially what fully caught him.

That's so heartbreaking to think about. It is. Like, your child is missing for maybe years at this point. And the only thing you have left is that you're called into the police to look at their bloody clothes. Yeah. And I'm sure as a parent, you're holding out that hope that they're not dead. And then this is just

someone else's clothes and not your chance. Yeah, like such as a jarring, like, piece of evidence that you're told and it's like, I don't even know how anyone would react to that. No. So most of the remains, of course, were dumped in the river. But what really was the thing that really nailed him down was they found the clothes and accessories in the apartment belonging to an 18-year-old boy who was missing named Robert Whitzel. And so in another case that the police were investigating, they found a skull that was buried in a garden. And that skull was identified to be belonging to the kid

that Robert Whittle. And so they tied that murder to Harmon. They brought him to court. They eventually charged him for 27 different murders. I'll get into the trial in just a sec. Yeah Yeah, so they found that last piece of evidence and Harmon confessed he confessed to all the killings, the raping, the dismemberment. And apparently, like, Harman said that he never actually meant to murder any of the victims.

Oh, right. But, you know, he had the irresistible urge to bite into their Adam's apple in the throes of ecstasy. So, yeah, that's what he confessed to. Everybody makes mistakes. Exactly. Sometimes I just, you know, want to kill somebody. Yeah, it happens. Yeah. Exactly. Sometimes I just, you know, want to kill somebody. Yeah, it happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was such a weird process. I don't know. Anyway.

Yeah. He confessed. The trial happens. The trial of both Harmon and Granz. It began on December 4th of 1924. So Harmon, like I said, he was charged with the murder of 27 boys who had disappeared in those years of 1918 and 1924. In most of the cases of the boys, and 14 of them actually to be exact he He wanted to be his own defense, but he was you know, not good at it He pretty much is guilty like it I I don't I don't get it. Why like Yeah, I don't know. They want control isn't isn't the point of being a suicide killer about control So yeah, I think I can charm their way out of it exactly true true true true true true

Yeah Like you know, you know, I never do this to children or I don't know maybe something else Yeah, they think they've gotten away with it thus far. So Exactly it was like they they think they're the shit and they just want to keep on like even after they're caught, they're just like, Oh no, like, I'm, I'm the best and blah, blah, whatever. Um, so while they were, um, they were in court, and just to add on to him thinking he was this shit and so full of himself in court, during trial he pretty much, he would insult the witnesses, he would sneer at the court people and he

he like endlessly smoked cigars just like while he was in court. He was super casual about it all. So I keep forgetting. So they would allow him to smoke during court. Yeah. It probably wasn't like as gross back then. Like, yeah, sure. But I'm like, sir, you're like being trialed for murder. Yeah. Yeah. He you know, he casually he was so casual about he, they asked him how many people he killed. He said 30 or 40. I don't know.

Uh, but he but then he later said he probably killed between 50 to 70 different boys. And so all of those extra people were never really determined. It was only the 27 main ones that he was initially tried for. He was found guilty of 24 out of the 27 murders because there was like circumstantial evidence for three of the murders that he was not the murderer for than the suspect, so they couldn't fully get him for those three. But he was sentenced to death. He was killed by decapitation by guillotine on April 15th of 1925. Now, Grands, his boyfriend, his lover, was also part of the trial. He was not, you know, sentenced for any of the murders, but due to other things, he was sentenced to life in prison. But his

sentence, he would only go on to serve about 12 years of his sentence, and then he was let free after that, which is crazy. And there's not really too much known of what happened to Grahams after that. Okay, I thought you were going to be like, and they got him on homosexuality. Final nail in the coffin. Yeah, put him away for life. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So interestingly enough, so this was about 1925, right? This, like people in Germany were of course like wanting to move past this, but also there was a movie that was made inspired inspired by it. What's it called? In 1931. So only six years after he was sentenced to death is when

like a classic film was made about it. And to me that seems very very soon. Oh yeah. Six years after a serial killer and you make a movie based off of him. I don't know. That's Yeah, I'm not a good movie Yeah, I don't know I don't know it so you watch it It's just called M and like the letter yeah M 1931. So ominous. Yeah, yes. So Harmon was decapitated. And actually his head was preserved in formaldehyde for years, it was given to a medical school, because they are wanting to go, they're wanting to study it to see like how his brain was different, why he did all

these things, whatever. Okay. The head, I actually do have like a picture of the head, pictures of the head, which is kind of crazy. It is. I guess I'll send them if you guys want to see that The head in the jar I realized how that sounded as soon as I said it at work. Okay. Okay. No. what, I was expecting something creepier. It's really not. Which is kind of more disturbing in a way. Yeah. But you know what, he looks. Yeah, he's got serial killer face.

He does, right? It's the carmine. Yeah. Yeah. The medical school, they got tired of storing it in 2015, so they cremated the head. Wow. The president gave it to some other something. They were probably just like, they were probably like fuck this guy like he's taking up the freezer like in our fridge they're like we're selling tickets um oh my god give a donation know what i'm sure there's people out there who would pay big money for that oh 100 put that in the the Zach vegans Museum Yeah, right give him a taste of his own medicine

So I'm gonna end this off with Harmon's last words before he was executed So as he was walking up to the guillotine he said, I am guilty gentlemen, but hard though it may be, I want to die as a man. And once he placed his head down into the guillotine he said, I repent, but I do not fear death. Okay. Okay, dude, like I don't know. This guy's yapping. Come on. Literally, like let's like just drop the drop the blade already. Like halfway through the sentence.

Like what is he even yapping about at the end like nobody cares yeah dying man come on wow anyway uh that's uh that's fritz harman the butcher of handover thanks for listening guys thanks for that i had heard the story did not remember the name i've heard but i had heard the name as soon as you started going to more details i was like wait i, wait, I have heard this. I have heard this. Yeah.

So thank you. Wow. Yeah. Good story. Thank you. Yeah. And M is a 1931 German mystery thriller film, directed by Fritz Lang. Come on.

So yeah. What are we doing? It's about a serial killer who targets children. So yeah. Brilsoon. It's free on Tubi. Oh, is it? No, I'm just kidding. I don't know.

Wow. thank you. Nice. Yeah. What do you have for us, Jay? I'm going to take us somewhere more lively. Not that Germany's not lively, but like this story was very... Yeah, yeah, no, of course. Of course.

Thank you. Whatever the opposite of lively is because people were kids were getting killed For this story Taking us to a state in the US Okay, and I open up the wrong document so not that state well technically yes that state but not that story I'm taking so y'all to Hawaii. Ooh, vacation. Yeah, now I know that you have gone to Hawaii. What about you, Sabina?

I have, I went once for like a week. Okay, so where have you both gone to? Oh, gosh. I've gone to Oahu. I've gone to the big I've gone to Maui. I've gone to I've been to like three of the different Islands, okay Family I've only been to a Honolulu

Okay. Yes. Yeah, you remember what part to Honolulu. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Do you remember what part in Honolulu? We were near Iolani Palace. I know that much. Okay. So I'll have to look that up because I don't know how close we are to this location.

Honolulu is this city. Yeah. Oh, just kidding no you're good yeah no no i yeah because for this story we are going um to Hawaii and we're actually gonna go to um Waikiki which is a resort in the district of Honolulu okay okay so i was like how close were you to this place, Sabina? Probably in that section. Yeah. So of course, it's known for its beaches, surfing, nightlife, culture. It's a popular destination, you know, that caught Sabina's eye.

But for today's story, we're talking about like an urban legend, like a legend. It's the choking ghost of Waikiki. What? So this is not your typical eerie apparition. It's something what some people would call a little bit more terrifying, because this is, I would call it like an entity that has been reported to physically choke its victims. Whoa.

Yeah, just leaving them gasping for breaths of air and like just paralyzed from fear. Wow. So before we get too much into the choking ghost of Waikiki, I want to take you through a little brief history of the location And trust me you're gonna know this like history because that's like a new layer to the story. We're about to unfold Got it So it's real simple Waikiki just means spread in waters in Hawaiian. And it was once a marshland, a place where natural springs and streams flowed freely. For Native Hawaiians, this was an area that was more than a place

to live. It was sacred land, rich in resources and spiritual significance. This is where the Hawaiian royalty, the A'li'i or A'li'ai, Ali, would come to surf and relax. So this was all before it became like a tourist destination. So everything was fine, but it all changed in the late 18th century when, of course, Europeans, because where have they not been, arrived to Hawaii. So they began transforming Waikiki and Western influence took hold by the late 1920s. The wetlands were drained and the area just started its evolution into like an urban tourist destination as we know it nowadays. And in the 20th century, we saw Waikiki evolve into a major tourist destination. evolved into a major tourist destination. Hotels, resorts, all started to spring up along the coast.

Visitors started to show up throughout the world. The Moana Hotel opened in 1901. It was one of the first major hotels in Waikiki. And then this was followed by the Royal Hawaiian Hotel in 1972, nowadays is known as the Pink Palace of the Pacific. And then of course, during World War II, Waikiki also played like a significant role as like a recreation area for American soldiers.

But this transformation, when it all happened, some people like to say that something was lost, like a connection to the past because it was such like sacred and spiritual land. And some people like to say that something was lost, like a connection to the past, because it was such like sacred and spiritual land. So it was believed by some people that the disconnect might have led to disturbing spirits that were like once peaceful in the land. So as more hotels were built, and the original purpose was overshadowed by like commercialism. That's what people started to feel more of the figure or like the spirit of the choking ghost of

Waikiki. So I try to do research of like when this story began, like people's encounters. So I have quite a few to go through. It was not easy finding them. Even though it's like an urban legend, it's not easy to find like people talking about this or like writing about it. Yeah, I know for lots of paranormal cases. Yeah, just like so some of the earliest reports. Yeah, it's like an urban legend basically. But some of the reports of the choking ghosts go back to the mid-20th century around like the 1950s and the 1960s. So that's kind of when this all started.

And the initial encounters were often just shared among locals. But of course, it wasn't long before the story started to spread beyond the locals and other people on the island. So the first store that I have for you took place in 1950, in the 1950s. Not like an exact year, 1950s. So this would involve a local woman, let's call her Malia. And she stayed at a small modest hotel in Waikiki. This hotel is now long gone because construction through so many years and it was before the whole area became a tourist destination. So it was still like under development. Malia was staying at this hotel for just a few nights while visiting some family in Honolulu.

It was a simple establishment, popular with locals who needed a place to stay when they came to town. On the third night of her stay, though, something happened that she would never forget, and she had gone to bed as usual. She fell asleep. The sound of the ocean waves were off in the distance. But in the dead of night, Malia was jolted awake by an overwhelming feeling of dread because she found herself completely paralyzed, unable to move a muscle.

As her eyes started around the dark room, she realized that something was terribly wrong. It was then that she would start feeling a crushing weight on her chest, almost as if someone or something was pressing down with incredible force. Oh my god. Yeah. So this woman, this is like the third night she's at this hotel, everything's fine. Third night, this starts to happen. So of course panic sets in. She tries to call out for help, but no sound comes out of her mouth. And then that's when she said that she felt cold and visible hands tightening around her throat.

Like, so she struggled desperately. Like her life was getting drained. And just as she was giving up, all the pressure released from her body and she was able to move again. So you guys ever had, you ever had sleep paralysis? No, but I heard of it. Yeah. Did you?

Once, briefly, I think it was scary. Was that a while ago? Long time ago, yeah. Okay. Nice. I've had it, I get it every now and then and it's kind of like, like the way you were telling it until the like cold hands, that's kind of what it feels like where you're paralyzed, you can't move but like your mind is awake.

Yeah. To have that added layer of like physicality with it, oh, that's so terrifying to me. And the thing is, this is very close to like sleep paralysis. Except in this story, there's always something off that's like, that's not sleep paralysis. Yeah. For the story was like cold hands on her throat.

Yeah, super distinct. Yeah. I said, oh my God, when distinct. Yeah, I said, oh my god when you described it because There's this no there's a story in my family It was one either one of my uncles or one of my older cousins. We were in Hawaii It was years ago and I'm pretty sure we were in Honolulu in Oahu and There was a story that it was either my uncle and my cousin, he woke up in the

middle of night, he felt huge pressure on his chest, like pushing down onto him. I just got goosebumps. And it felt like it felt like he was going to like, like, be like suffocated. What? Yeah. Like, like this is a story in my family. And like, before, and you describe that, I was like, Oh my God, what? What? Yeah, that's kind of crazy.

Yeah. So that's what ended up happening, happening to Malia. Malia. So like, once she was able to breathe again, once the pressure was gone, she just looked around the room No sense of intruders, but of course, it's such a like vivid experience because you're like awake You can't do anything you think you're like something like yeah The next morning she told her experience to the hotel staff And to her surprise one of the older workers at the hotel like nodded knowingly And to her surprise, one of the older workers at the hotel nodded knowingly. He told her that it wasn't the first time that someone reported an incident like this at the hotel. I don't know if that's comforting or not.

I don't know. They're like, yeah, we know. What hotel was this again? Shoot. Do you remember the name of it? No, because this was in the 1950s. Alice or something? No, no.

Not this one. Or a this one. So all I know is that it was in a quieter stretch of the Palakua Avenue. So there was a hotel there in the 1950s. 50s. Okay. Um, but yeah, so I think it's because, yeah, go ahead. I was just saying, because like I have like, I have family and like in Honolulu. And so that's why, like I was there in the first place. And like, I'm trying to think of like, where their house is, like where, I mean, like, what street, like, so it gives you like a rough outline of like, where that's like that district in Honolulu. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I yeah, I've been here a bunch. It's like right on the water. Yeah. Okay. Oh, so that adds up with your like, that's kind of cool. Yeah, I think if a hotel staff member wants to tell you that one of two things if you're not spending more nights, they are great. If you're spending more nights there, it's like, fuck, do I want to stay or do I want to leave? Another story from the Choking Ghosts of Waikiki took place in the 1960s. And this was a couple that experienced it. So in the late 1960s, a couple and their honeymoon was in Waikiki.

And they were staying in a well-known beachfront hotel. I don't have the name for this one either. But after a day of just exploring the island, they fell asleep. And once again, they were jilted awake in the early hours by the shared sense of terror. John was the first person to notice that something was wrong because he woke up to that sensation of being suffocated, like something was pressing down on his chest. And as he tried to call out to his wife, Lisa, nothing came out of his throat. Like no sound was coming out. So he couldn't move. He couldn't speak. He was completely paralyzed. And it

wasn't too long before Lisa experienced something extremely similar. She woke up as well. She started to feel pressure on her chest. And then when she tried to ask for help, you know, yell out for someone, nothing came out of her throat, like nothing came out of her chest. And then when she tried to ask for help, you know, yell out for someone, nothing came out of her throat, like nothing came out of her mouth. They were unable to cry next to each other. And once again, it felt like eternity. As soon as they almost felt like giving up, it's when like pressure lifted and they were able to like speak and like move again. After they discussed what happened that night, they decided to check out of the hotel and

they ended up moving their honeymoon to a different location. And so, yeah, good. Now, some of the earlier cases, the 1951 was from a local, the 1960s was from a couple having their honeymoon there. There's a story in the 1940s from an officer from World War II, because while they were stationed at Pearl Harbor. So some would decide to take the weekend and go to Waikiki to relax and unwind. So this was Captain Roberts and Captain Roberts, just like everyone else before, woke up in the middle of the night, felt like someone was strangling him. And unlike the other stories, Robert was able to feel a pair of cold clammy hands around his neck, just tighter and tighter. And his military training kicked in. Like he tried to fight with all his might against like this invisible force, but like everyone else,

he was paralyzed. Yeah. So even though like he was gonna do his best to physically fight back with all the training that he knew he was just paralyzed. In addition to that, Robert is one of the few people that have like additional things to the encounter because he reported that there was like a low menacing whisper in his ear that he couldn't make out the words. No. No. No. No.

Yeah. Yeah. So the whispering just grew louder, almost as if it was mocking him. Oh my God. And this time, just when he was about to pass out, that's when like all the pressure released from him and he was able to move again. He said that he was drenched in sweat, he leaped out of the bed to find that there was no like a silent like a silent in the room. The door was locked, once again no signs of break-ins. And then once he returned back to base

and he discussed what happened to him, he found out that other people, other officers, had also experienced similar encounters. We'll say that like crazy. Yeah. So it seems like all these people are like, either experience it for the first time, they know about it, or they find out about it afterwards. I would be like, and I get that there's really nothing you can do, it's pretty much like sleep paralysis, but it's like, just feeling that and like, I don't know, thinking you're going to die by being strangled by nothing.

So terrifying. Crazy. Yeah. At least like with that couple, like when you said that story, I would feel better in that situation because you've got someone else to be like... Yeah. There, yes. Otherwise, I don't know that I would tell someone, like, you know?

There, yeah. But I also don't know if it would make me feel better that me and my partner both Yeah through this Talk about trauma bonding Changed the trajectory of their lives forever Now of course like I'm trying to I try to put this once in the best like chronological order as I could there's another one from the 1980s. And this is from a business traveler who was in Waikiki for a conference. And we'll call the man David. He was staying at a high rise hotel near

Waikiki Beach. He was a frequent traveler, he'd stayed in multiple hotels, it was nothing new for him. But this was the first time that, of course, it would be different from other times. He had been out with colleagues attending the networking event. He returned to his hotel room. And after showering, he quickly fell asleep. But in the middle of the night, he was jolted awake by a terrifying sensation. Once again, David found himself paralyzed,

unable to move or speak. As he lay down there, panic started to rise. He felt like an intense pressure on his chest, which is what they all have in common. As if someone was sitting on him, there was a choking sensation, cold hands wrapped around his throat, squeezing tightly, tried to fight back, but of course, paralyzed, couldn't do anything. And what made it kind of unsettling was that he mentioned that he remembers that he could hear the sound of his own breathing being cut off. Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah.

That's crazy. Oh, after several minutes, the pressure was released. Like everyone else before, David could move again, he set up, he gasped for air. He left the hotel the next morning, checked into a different location and just still remained there for the business travel, but just a different hotel. Years later, David told the story to a friend who was a frequent traveler to Hawaii. And once again, his surprise, the friend had similar stories of others who had stayed in Waikiki.

They need like a support group. They do. It's like hello my name is Jay and I was choked by the ghosts of Waikiki in 2012. Hi Jay. Hi Jay. You're so great for being here today. And so are all of you. Now there's some encounters as well in like the 2000s. There's one in the early 2000s from a young surfer who grew up in Oahu. And his name was Keoni. And he was a regular surfer. Waikiki Beach was practically his second home. He spent most of his days right in the waves,

hanging out with friends, and just enjoying the laid back lifestyle in the island. So one night he was at a friend's apartment, just a few blocks away from the beach, and Keoni had experienced, of course, the choking ghost as well. So the way that it went down is that they had been surfing earlier that day and he decided to spend that night at his friend's place. The apartment was small, it was sparsely furnished, and there was just a few pieces of furniture. Keoni took the couch. He fell asleep almost as soon as his head hit the pillow.

And in the early hours of the morning, he was startled awake by a strange sensation. He first thought that it was just like a strange dream that he was still dreaming, but quickly turned into something more sinister because he only felt a heavy weight pressing down on his chest. It made it difficult to breathe. He tried to sit up but he realized that he couldn't move and that's when he realized that not only like he couldn't sit up, his whole

body was paralyzed. So then came the choking, because of course, an invisible force wrapped around his throat, squeezing tighter and tighter. Kioni struggled to break free, but of course, like everyone else, he was powerless. He said that the room started to feel colder, and that the air felt like thick, that there was something in the room with him. And then he later described that he was being suffocated by the very room itself. So after what everyone else described as an eternity, the pressure lifted off Kioni. He was able to move again, he set up gasping for air, there was no one else in the room. So no explanation as to what just happened And after that Keoni never stayed at that friend's apartment again

Yeah To this day, he still refuses to talk about the experience in detail He says that that's something And why Kiki that just decided to pay him a visit at night Yeah decided to pay him a visit at night. Yeah. So tourists, local, I don't think anyone's safe. Yeah, at first I was wondering if it was like a tourist thing, you know, like trying to get them out of native land. Yeah. Yeah. No, maybe they just don't know the difference and everyone's fair game. Yeah.

There was another couple in the 1990s that also had a similar experience, just like the first couple. We'll call them Margaret and Frank. And they were there celebrating their 40th wedding anniversary. So they took a trip to Hawaii. It was a destination they had always dreamed of visiting, and they had Book estate and a little charming hotel, which was, which had been a favorite one among the visitors in the 1950s. So the hotel had this nostalgic charm with vintage decor, the 1950s, so the hotel had this nostalgic charm with vintage decor and a reputation for being one of the more, in quote, authentic places to stay in Waikiki. But their second night of the stay, once again, they would experience the choking ghost of Waikiki. Because Margaret was the first one to

experience it, she woke up in the middle of the night, felt a cold breeze in the room, despite the windows being closed, and as she tried to sit up, she felt overwhelming pressure on her chest, pinning her to the bed. When she tried to call out to Frank, of course, she could not speak, as if something was choking her, and she couldn't catch her breath. At the same time, Frank was lying beside her, also woke up feeling like an intense pressure on his chest. Once again, he was too paralyzed to speak or move, and they were just both trapped in silent, like in a silent nightmare basically.

Their breath grew shorter and shorter as the invisible force continued to squeeze the life out of them. And once again, just before they're about to give up, all pressure is released from them. They set up, they gasp for air, they look at each other shaken. Because once again, they had both shared that terrifying experience. And the couple left the hotel the next morning. They checked into a more modern establishment.

Years later, Margaret would occasionally bring up the experience, still unable to explain it, but Frank on the other hand, he just refused to talk about it. He just preferred putting the whole incident behind him. Yeah, so 40th anniversary, 40th marriage anniversary. One to remember. Yeah, one to remember. Yeah. Last night was a movie, a horror film. Yeah. was a movie. A horror film. I have a story about a local resident who actually had this encounter multiple times. Yeah, so this is the story of Leilani, a local Waikiki resident

who experienced the choking ghost not just once, not twice, but a few more times than that. Leilani just lived in a small apartment near the beach, and it was there that she would first encounter that ghostly choking. It was a summer night. She had fallen asleep with the windows open, hoping to catch a breeze, and that's when she was abruptly waken by a familiar terrifying sensation It was the heavy weight of pressure pressed down her chest She quickly realized she couldn't move her fear intensified like everyone else's and She started to feel those icy hands wrap around her throat squeezing tighter

This is where it differs a little different from other stories because unlike other victims, Leilani claimed that she saw a ghost. She said that with the dim moonlight filtering some light into the room, she saw a shadowy figure standing at the foot of her bed. But the face was obscured by darkness. The presence was undeniable. And the figure just leaned over her. It's called grips tight in her throat. And like that man previously we talked about, she actually heard some whispers in her ear. But it was from a language that she didn't understand. Once again, after she was about to give up, that's when like all pressure was lifted. She was able to breathe

again. And of course, like everyone else, she was left shaking because this would be not the first. Sorry, not it would be the first but not the last encounter she would have with the choking ghost. She would go on to have this be a repeating thing in her apartment. Sometimes it would be weeks without that choking ghost sensation. Sometimes it would be like just a couple days. Do you know how many times? There's not an exact number. It's just like multiple times. One too many. Yeah, exactly. So despite her like relief,

after like finally being able to breathe after every single time, she sought help from a local kahuna. Is that what what a Hawaiian spiritual practitioner. So he performed a rich a cleanse cleansing ritual in her apartment. And after that ritual, she stopped having those encounters, like she everything went back to normal in her apartment. Hmm. It happened a lot and did she go back to normal after this? That's a good question. That's a good question.

I feel like it's almost like whatever like cases we've covered in the past, like a family moves into a house, it's haunted, but they can't really afford to move out. So they just have to deal with it and ask for help. Just stick it out. So yeah. Luckily the client in helped out. Like I live here. I signed a lease man. I gotta get my deposit back.

Pay your rent or like, get out. Literally. You just live here for free? Hell no. At least like wash the dishes. Yeah, help out with something, you know. You got hands, use them. Okay, it's probably just me. Like in a weird way, I wanna know what this feels like. Like I wanna know what it feels like. Like the pressure on your chest. Yeah. I'm gonna sit my hands on the freezer

for like 20 minutes. I'd be like, hi, I'm not getting like hyperthermia in my hands for no reason. Okay, let me lay down. for throwing me in my hands for no reason. Okay, let me lay down. Turn off the lights. No, but I am curious about this as well. Like if I know it's not going to kill me, you know?

Yeah, obviously like this people have never heard of like this choking ghost, like they have no prior knowledge, so they really think they're gonna die. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's kind of a common theme with paranormal encounters is that like impending doom. You know, I hear true, true, true, true. This seems so unique. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it just happens. Yeah. From like, sleep paralysis, completely like completely like, like completely. People in sleep paralysis just mode pressure on their chest. They can't like move. But not even like when I've experienced it, it's just like paralysis, you know, like there's not even that pressure. So I can't even imagine like, okay, the weight of it. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah i i would like to experience it in a controlled setting i'm just putting it out there i would not like to experience it whoever's listening

i'm good set your boundaries set your boundaries i have none I have none. He'll try anything else. And then I was able to find like a TV show called Hawaiian Ghost Mysteries from 2011. And they actually talked a little bit more about the the choking ghost of Waikiki and they had to, I don't know if to call them like witnesses or like survivors because they're both. So the first story is Gina. So Gina just recalls a terrifying encounter during college years. It was winter break when she was back home staying with her family. And they had an old house that was built in the 60s. A place that always seemed to have like a certain sort of a presence. And one night Gina just woke up with that unsettling feeling

of being watched. As she laid in bed, she noticed a black figure standing besides her. The room was just dark, but the shadow was even darker. So she couldn't make out any features just like the ominous silhouette of what looked like a person. Panic set in as Gina tried to scream. Once again, no sound came out. Paralyzed with fear, she closed her eyes.

Again, reset in the Lord's Prayer. And when she opened her eyes, she could move and breathe again, and the figure had vanished. All right, there's the cheat code out of it. Close your eyes and get ready. Don't try to fight it, just accept it. I don't know. No, because it almost seems that all the people that had those encounters, as soon as they were ready to accept their fate, all pressure was released.

It's always like just as they think they're going to die, just as they're about to give up, that it's like, just kidding. Like, oh, I scared you enough. Yeah. Let me just get out of here. Yeah. I think that wasn't really going to kill you. You're good.

You should have seen in your face. Yeah. So, another of the witnesses slash survivors is from Preston Galera. He's a paranormal investigator. And this was actually his first supernatural experience. It's when one night around 3 a.m. in the morning, Preston woke up to the sensation of something holding him down. He couldn't breathe. The only part of his body that he could move was his pinky. He was able to just twitch his pinky. As he struggled, just something forcefully pushed his head to the side. Oh yeah. So he was exhausted, terrified, he

eventually gave up, and suddenly whatever was restraining him released its grip. Like everyone else, he sat up, looked around, there was no one there, and somehow after this, well he took note of the time, which is why he says it's 3 in the morning. But after this whole encounter, he was able to fall back asleep. The next morning, Preston just told his experience to his mother. And that's when he learned that his grandfather had passed away that night. So he kind of summed it up as his grandfather came to the final visit. And in order for his grandfather to not scare him, that's why

he turned his head to the side. Interesting. It's his theory of, you know, maybe what it was. Yeah. His grandfather sat on his chest and was like, oh shit, like, sorry, I didn't mean to up educate you. He's like blind. I'm here to say goodbye, but don't look at me.

Pretty much. Now I tried to join some digging through newspaper clippings. I found something very, very similar. It does not take place in Waikiki, but it actually takes place next door. It takes place in Kaimuki, which is next to Waikiki. I looked at the map and I'm like, where is this? So maybe there could be some like overflowing things in that area as well. So this is from the Honolulu Star Bulletin. It's from Tuesday, October 31st.

They posted it in a section called Spook Stories. And it's from 1972. So it starts with saying a police officer in a patrol car in Kaimuki got a late night call from three girls sharing a house which the neighborhood considered haunted. The girls heard strange noises of someone moving around and talking and one of the girls said that she felt a hand on her arm. They decided to spend the rest of the night in Papakalia with the mother of one of the girls and wanted the policeman to follow them there. The girls got into the car, the officer got into his, and they drove off. They drove

down Waili Avenue. Suddenly the girl driving pulled the car into the Oasis Cafe parking lot. The policeman later wrote in his report that the girl in the middle of the front seat was fighting off something who could not be seen but who was strangling her. He jumped out of his car. He reached into the girl's car to help. In the retelling of his story, the officer said a big, strong, lousy hand that could not possibly belong to a teenager girl grabbed my arm and twisted it. not possibly belong to a teenager girl grabbed my arm and twisted it. I waited for assistance. The answering officer was prepared for a parking lot fight, but not for a ghost.

The ghost in the car, he told me, there's a ghost in the car, he told me, and he was as white as a sheet. The girls were hysterical. I told a girl who had been choked to get into the police car and the other two to follow us to Papakouliya. As soon as she got in the car, the motor died. It wouldn't start up again. He put her back into the girl's car and the other officer tried the motor and it immediately started. The two cars drove about five yards and suddenly the door to the girl's car flew open at the

same time the girl fell out of the road. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It just opened? Yep. And the girl fell out into the road. That's terrifying. Yep. And the girl fell out into the road. That's terrifying.

Yep. So again, she was tearing up as something was choking her throat, as if someone was choking her. Together, two policemen were not strong enough to pull her hands away. police sergeant sergeant ran into the Oasis Cafe and came out with a handful of Hawaiian salt and a glass of water which he sprayed on everybody. Calm was immediately restored. It's something my my grandmother told me. I never tried it before and officer explained it sends the ghost away. Good to know. Yeah. So some Hawaiian salt and water. Yep. Spray it on everyone. Keep it in your car. I'm gonna give a bottle of it on me at all times. Yeah. And although it's not technically like the same kind of choking ghost encounter as the choking

ghost of Waikiki, I thought it was similar enough because someone's getting choked and it's right next to Waikiki. Yeah. Maybe they were like traveling for the weekend, that spirit. Yeah. They were following someone. Yeah.

Yeah. So that is my story of the choking ghost of Waikiki. Fascinating. Thank you. Travel with salt and water. You noted I would love to see like a map of like all of the oh, yeah, like, like the locations where like people were strangled. Yeah.

See if there's like a certain radius or whatever. Or like a correlation between places or something. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be cool. Interesting. But that was actually, you said there wasn't like much, but that was a lot. Yeah. Like that was a lot of stories, like recounts of it happening. I mean, like there wasn't much going into detail of like why there's a choking ghost or like, or what this entity is, or like theories about it. The most there is is that it was like an earthbound spirit that was not happy with like construction. Okay.

Fair. Yeah, no valid. Yeah, so I hope you guys enjoyed it. I'm surprised that like you have like Kai had like heard this story before. Yes, that's really cool. Yeah, that freaked me out a little bit. Yeah, no, like I like that's one of the most genuine reactions I've had this story. Like I heard that and I was like that is exactly what has been described like to me before. And the last time I heard that story was like years ago, and so I don't remember who exactly it was, but Yeah, like in the middle of the night they just felt like somebody was sitting on their chest and it was like very cold I don't know Kind of crazy. Yeah, seriously

Thank you for a lot to ask around see and see have to ask around see I can see. Yeah, that's wild. I love it though and I'm glad they're okay. Yeah, me too. Now, Sadeena, care to wrap up? Take it away. All right. Okay, so, um, real quick, have you guys seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off? This doesn't have a promise. Okay. So you know how there's that part where he's trying to get into this fancy restaurant and it's not until he says he's the sausage king of Chicago that he can get a table? Yeah. So I'm going to tell you guys about the real life sausage king of Chicago. There's an actual sausage king of Chicago. There is. And upon researching this, you know, it's a true crime story, but I found there's a little ghosty treat at the end. So, okay, I get a little bit of both with this.

Perfect. All right. So Adolf Lewis Looker, he was born on December 27th, 1845 in Guter Sla, Westphalia. It's now part of Germany. Guter Sla, give it up. Right. Oh yeah. Represent. So he's a message in here from Fooderslog. Represent.

So he had a twin brother. He was child number four of 16. So I'm just going to- Oh, shit. Yeah. That's more than my family. Yeah, I thought having four siblings was crazy, but 16. I was thinking it was my dad, because my dad has 12.

That's way too many. Yeah, no, right? This is 16, wow. Crazy. So at this point, Westphalia's population is about 3,000 people. Famine was really common here. Not for long with this, kids.

What's that? Not for long with this, kids. No, no. So yeah, right. You got something to do. So there's famine. This was also around the time that the German revolution started to spark up. So like not a great place to live. So in 1860, when he's 14, he leaves school, he becomes a tanning apprentice. And in his youth, like growing up, he would help father or his father, he would help his father with animal hides. So this is something that I've known. What kind of apprentice did he become? A tanning apprentice, which I tried to look up. Tanning and hides, it has something to do with animal skin.

Okay, but not like tanning? Yeah. No, he's not like putting sunscreen on. There's no tanning meds. Just spray tan business. Yeah, not quite. Not quite. But yeah, so as an apprentice, he's making money.

He's also living there. So he's pretty set. He did that till he was 17. And then when he finishes his apprenticeship, he travels around Europe. He's getting whatever jobs he can. By 1865, he moves to London for six months. He's scrubbing restaurant kitchens. That's about the only work he can find.

He gets fed up with that. Same year, he moves to New York. Oh. He's doing a bit of traveling. Oh yeah. Get this. He moves again within a year to Quincy, Illinois. Is he just like throwing darts on the map?

Eenie meenie miney. Yeah, honestly. You. He did move to Quincy because he had a brother who lived there. So he was like, kind of sad. Interesting. Yeah. But he still can't find work there. So he was like, Oh, interesting. Yeah. But he still can't find work there. Oh, I don't know the count between boys and girls. But this was one of the 16. I'm sure there's like at least three.

We're gonna say. Yeah, I would. Yeah, I would agree. You know. But yeah, he's in Quincy, can't find work. Guess what? He moves again. This time he's in Chicago and this is where he stays. So we're done with the moving. Okay. I guess Chicago is a nice place to slow down. Yeah. Yeah. So there he gets a job again as a tanner. He works for the Union Hide and Leather Company. So still no sunscreen, no tanning beds. I know. But he's there 1867 to 1872. And in that time, he saved $4,000. So wow, that's like a lot for back then.

Any guesses what that is today? What year was this? This was around 1872. Okay. $120,000. I don't know. Okay. I was just going to say about $80,000, maybe $70,000.

You guys are both you're like on the bookends was 103,000 $127 today. Wow. Like he's doing pretty good. That's good. And how long like in savings? Nice. Yeah, what's not like how long was him? How long did it take him to collect this much money? To say 67 to 72. Oh, and he came to America with $30 to his name. So like... Damn! This dude like did a lot. He's grinding.

He's a very hard worker. He made a living for himself. Yeah. So respect. He would use some of that money to buy a shop and he became a liquor distributor on a corner store. And then he lived on the second floor of that. And I think I remember reading this was like by the time this happened, I want to say it was around the time of the Chicago fire. So after that happened, there was a lot of like reformation happening and like the town started to grow again. So he was like

doing pretty well for himself, I would say. Then on April 13th, 1827, at 26 years old, he married 32 year old Caroline Ropke. I don't know. But okay, I lied. They moved again. They went to, still in the alcohol business, he purchased a saloon tavern type setup and they would live above that. I think it would be cool to like own a saloon.

Oh yeah, I think that'd be fun. Yeah. Free drinks. Oh yeah, I think that'd be fun. Yeah. Free drinks. Oh no, I keep going. I know, at this point, I'm still rooting for him. No, I was like, I forgot that you're telling us a story. And I'm just like, oh, this is broad knowledge. Right?

it as a story and I'm just like, oh, this is broad knowledge. Right? But yeah, so Caroline and Adolf would end up having two sons, Max and Arnold. They were born 1873 and 74. Arnold did pass away at two. And so after that, Max was sent to live with his grandmother. So yeah, kind of sad. His wife, Caroline died at 27 from an illness. I couldn't find what the illness was, but it didn't seem like really suspicious. So okay, like natural causes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you know, lead wasn't everything. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she probably had some sort of some sort of microplastics of

the 1800s variety in her... I was going to say that was lead poisoning back in the day. Yeah. Our microplastics are there, lead poisoning. And lots of other things. Yes. So, okay. I love this part. Two months after his wife dies, he got married again. So... No, no. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Nice. So this

is why you mentioned the no foul play part with his previous death. Okay. My guess is like, they must have known each other before, but they were married January 18th, 1878. He was 23. Her name was Louisa Biknis.'ve also heard Biknis I don't know take your pick okay but as a proposal wedding gift he gave her a 14 karat gold ring with her new initials LL oh how much did that cost? Okay a lot. He was fine. I wish, but you know what, we're gonna keep that ring in the back of our minds, okay? Okay. Got it, got it, got it. A little background on her. She was from Germany as well. She was one of six children. I did read that she didn't speak English very well, but they were still able to, you know, get along.

They seemed happy at first. Um, she came to the U S in 1872 with an older brother, and it seems like they were pretty close. Um, before she got married, she worked as a domestic servant. And then after marriage, she was not necessarily like a business partner to Adolf, but like she would advise him and it kind of became like the family business. So as they're running this, they decide to save money by living in a smaller, simpler apartment. She was really, yeah, she tried to be financially savvy, it seems like, but Adolf didn't want this. He wanted to be like a tycoon. He had money, he wanted to spend it. So he's working

hard. Eventually, he sees that there's like a good business opportunity in sausage making. So he abandons alcohol, he becomes a sausage man, he moved his family adjacent to the meat market. And he was pretty good at this. So he does a lot of moving, he would eventually move this business to a larger building. Yeah, so he's he's up and going. So they're in this larger building. I believe they moved to a nicer house at this point. Louise was content with this.

They've made it. But he's still grinding. This isn't enough for him. This would lead to marital issues. They would offer that. I know, believe it or not. What kind though? She wanted him to save money. She didn't like that he was putting all of his eggs in one basket with sausage. And she said he should invest, you know, split up his wealth, you know, just in case. Don't put it all in

one basket. A sausage basket. Yeah, it's the sausage basket. Right. But what do women know? He keeps going. He's sausage-ing it up. And in 1893, the World's Fair came to Chicago. So this was great for him. He was able to promote his work.

He found new, a bigger customer base. He grew the business. He sold so much of this. He was so successful during the World's Fair. This is where he got the name of Sausage King of Chicago. So he's- Oh, yeah. I think it was at this point. I don't know if it was here or later, but he eventually becomes the biggest sausage producer in the US. And he claimed to have invented the summer sausage, which is like, okay, but it's like, it's good for the summer because you don't have to freeze it. It's kind of like, you know how sometimes salami will just come in that cured. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like that.

Okay. So apparently this was him. Wow. But yeah, he's like what an accomplishment. Yeah, he's big man on campus. You know, he's a little respected. I have a quote from one of his colleagues or about his colleagues, quote, They gave him wide birth when he went along the sidewalk with his Great Dane dogs panting after him.

When he spoke to them, they pulled off their hats. He employed more men than anyone for almost a mile around and they the neighborhood looked on his factory as the place where all the money in circulation originated. God damn all the money is crazy. Yeah. So I think this was. Yeah. Yeah.

He's very, he's savvy. You know, he knows what he's doing. I will say, um, he's able to guess what? Move again. He gets a, I believe he had this built. I don't think he purchased it, but he had a five story factory built. And then right next door, he had a three story home built for his family. Oh shit. Nice. So like five. Yeah. Five, five stories of sausage.

Crazy to me. Okay, sir. Yeah. You know, I think he also- Who took the sausage seriously? Yeah. Sausage is no joke. He did. All right. Not for this man. Do you think he also what?

Oh, I don't know if it came to be, but he wanted to have like train tracks put into the factory so they could just load and unload shipments faster. That's kind of smart actually. Yeah. I don't think Louisa went for it though. So I don't know. Yeah, for sure. He was also working like so much and putting so much into this that he had a bed in his office at the factory. He also had a housekeeper named Mary Simmering who would always make the bed there. Eventually, staff are like, oh, what's going on? He's chilling with her.

He was also really friendly with a wealthy widow named Christine Fields. I couldn't find where she got her wealth, but people think he was kind of like your story, Kai. He was trying to find money, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wealthy Thornback? What's that? Wealthy Thornback? You know what a Thornback is? I don't. I just agreed. No, no, no, that's great. So you know what a spinster is, right?

Oh, what? A spinster. What's a spinster? A spinster is like a term used for like an unmarried woman who like is over a certain age. Like when you're like 16 or like 17 and you're not married, like you're considered a spinster. She's still me. Yeah. But when you reach the age of 26, you turn from a spinster to a thornback. Oh, even worse, I assume. I guess so, because you're still

unmarried and it's like you're past your prime. Yeah, I wonder for her because she was widowed. Maybe people didn't like that and I as much or like widows. yeah, they were talking. They were talking, for sure. So, yeah, he's doing great. But in the 1890s, huge recession, stock market crash, business are failing, unemployment rates are up. Same goes for the sausage factory. Expenses start to become bigger than sales. And when

he had built this business, he pretty much loaned as much as he spent on it. So all of the creditors start to come back and they're like, give me my money. Yeah. Banks aren't lending at this point. So like, he can't go to them. He's got a bunch of debt piling up, so he's kind of screwed. In comes Louisa with her, I told you so. Should have invested. You know? Right. Of course, she's pissed at him.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's said neighbors would hear them arguing frequently. Apparently, police reports were made pretty often or the police would have to be involved sometimes. Oh, shit. Yeah, they're not getting along. Eventually, Lutger just spends more time at the factory and he's there eventually at one point so often that he only comes home for meals.

Which like, you work at a sausage factory, if you're not talking to your wife, go eat some sausage. Like, Don't come home for dinner. Don't come home to have her make you dinner. And then, I'm giving you like cold beans, like, He's gonna give you like one of your own sausages and a plate.

Yeah, exactly. So eventually business is so bad that in February 1897, 1897 the factories closed and it was apparently taken over by the sheriff, which I think is kind of like how banks will take over property now, you know? So, yeah. At this point, Louise is fed up. She's starting to tell her friends and family that she wants to leave him. She wants to start a new life without him. Like she's over it. You know, her. You know, around the same time, Lutgert purchased two barrels of caustic potash, also known as potassium hydroxide. It's a corrosive product. It can sometimes be used for fertilizer or at this point, probably more common used for liquid soap. Interesting. Okay. When this came in, I don't know how he was still doing things at the factory, but I think it was still technically his or like maybe he had keys or something. But when his employees unload it, they're like, this is weird.

Like it was not something that they used in the factory. So yeah. Oh, why the hell do we need this? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, earn heads. Why the hell do we need this? Yeah. Yeah. So May 1st, 1897, he asked two of his employees to take the barrels to the boiler room. Oh, and prior to this, he had, there had been like a lot of locals saying that he tried to get into the factory and couldn't. So I guess on May 1st, he was finally able to, he has workers take the barrels to the boiler room and has them pour the contents into a steam vat,

which was normally used to dip the sausages into for something. Um, after this, the employees were told to keep the steam going all night, and then they were sent on an errand. So they're out of the factory. Later that night, he takes his lovely wife to the factory. There we go. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The watchmen come back from the factory or to the factory, They go to check on the boiler room because they were told to keep that fat going and the room or the door to the room is bolted. So they just go back to their post outside. They're like, all right, that's weird. And then just left. Yeah. I mean, what can you do? You know, the door's locked. There was a woman who lived

across the street from the factory named Agatha Tosh. And she said that night she saw smoke coming from the factory, which was weird to her because it's closed. Why is there smoke? What's going on? So May 4th, Deidre Mcness, Louisa's brother, went to go visit her. And guess what? She's not home. That's... Where could she be? Yeah. And he realizes she hasn't been home for like days So he's asking friends and family have they seen her. Where is she? No Most people say the last time she saw her was when she was going to the factory with her husband so he goes to Luke or who said she'd run off and abandon the family and

He didn't make a police report. So that's really good. So yeah. So her brother goes, he talks to the police. He says like, she wouldn't do this. You know, she has children. Why would she leave them? The police are like, hmm. So they start talking to the neighbors. They learn about the arguments. They learn about the tension. And same thing, they find out the last place she was seen was walking to the factory with her husband. And on this walk, she was wearing a nightgown and slippers.

So that's not like running away a tire to me. No, no, no, definitely not. Yeah. There was another witness who said he the street who saw the smoke, she was later approached by Lutger, who told her not to tell anyone he was using the vat, that the factory was closed and that he shouldn't have been there. So he was trying to, like, cooperate his story, you know? Yeah. But little suspicious.

Definitely. Yeah, after all of this, what's that? I was like, don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. He apparently went to a couple other like employees and too and was like, don't tell people I was here. They don't need to know this. Oh my God. Which is like, dude. That's not us at all. No.

So on May 15th, an inspector and a team of officers inspected the factory. And one of the watchmen who was there that night mentioned how weird Adolf was being with the factory. And one of the watchmen who was there that night mentioned how weird Adolf was being with the boiler, so they go to check it out. They look at the vat, which is filled with a reddish-brown liquid. Oh. Yeah. Is that from the sausages? Well, okay. Yeah, first thought was like a reddish brown, all like human, whatever. But it's like, well, it was a sausage factory. So how? Yeah, a place would that be? It's in soap liquid. You know, like, why are you putting sausage in so true? Oh, true, true, true, true, true. They're pretty fishies. So they drain it. What's that? In's infected. Infected. Can't eat that. So when they drain the vat, they find pieces of bone, decaying teeth, corset steels, and the cherry on top? A gold ring

with the initials LL. So. So it was one and two. Yeah. Please continue their search. They go to the outer area where smokehouse ashes were dumped, and they found more pieces of bone, including parts of the human skull. It's lovely. Yep. Yep. So on May 18th, Lutger is arrested. He's charged with the murder of his wife. And his trial begins August 24th, 1897. So this was like super sensational. This big man on campus is now a murderer.

So press are all over this. Some of them got in trouble for listening into the jury room deliberation. And some people think this is where America's fascination with like courthouse true crime drama may have started. That makes sense. Yeah. There were also like reports being publicized in New York and London.

So like, big deal. This was reaching far. Oh, yeah. I've heard of the Sausage Man. Mm-hmm. The Sausage Man. It also made people question sausage and the sausage he was selling. So people were not buying it, whether it was from his company or not.

Sales plummeted for a minute, which, you know, understandable. But there wasn't any evidence that she was in the sausages. That she was consumed. You know? Yeah. Not to be so blunt, but like, yeah. Yeah. You're welcome to be blunt. We give them a warning before the episodes. Yeah. Yeah

So during his trial Lutgert's defense claimed that Louise had run away, you know, there's no body So yeah, you can't prove that she's dead, which is fair But the ring He's reaching The ring and the potash are like, like, very solid. Yeah. Like, no, actually, actually, I don't think your story is working out for you. So his lawyers say that the potash was for soap to clean the factory, So his lawyers say that the potash was for soap to clean the factory, which, okay. But the sheriff who took over the factory after it had to close, part of their duty

was taking inventory of everything and they already had over 100 boxes of soap. So it was no need for more. No need for more. And why make it yourself? You know, if you already have some bio. Exactly already have soap. Why are you buying more soap during a recession? You got shame on you. How to stay clean. God. Actually, sausage is messy, man. That's how the sausage is made. The defense also said the ring was lost so that just like never came back which is not questionable at all. They also claimed the

bones were animal bones but they had bone experts come in who confirm they were human. So yeah. The prosecution also did some experiments. They were, this is kind of crazy to me, they obtained a corpse. So they got a corpse and they put it in an identical vat and potash mixture. And the body was gone in hours. So. Wow. Yeah. And the body was gone in hours. So. Wow. Yeah. OK, that kind of experiment. Yeah. So if you're donating your body to science, you might end up not.

Fair warning. Yeah. During the trial, the court also got a letter, which was apparently from Luis, who said she was living in Chicago with friends. Um, and at this point, there were also with how sensational the case was, people reported seeing her all over America. Someone said they saw her on a ship bound for Europe. There were plenty of reports of this. Um, but it was, I think they were all red herrings, also a handwriting expert.

Yeah, they had experts come in and confirm the letter wasn't from her. So it was probably like, Lutgert's team just grasping at straws. Exactly. Yeah. So October 18th, 1897, the jury deliberates for three days and the jury's hung. No. Yeah. What? How?

How? So some people think they were paid off. You know, it might have been a little shady. Oh, I could believe that. So. But they were like, no, no, no. And so then a month later, they do a second trial. And then during this trial, Adolf wants to represent himself, which is always a good sign.

Oh, my. Oh, it's a great sign. So during this trial, this was so funny to me. He made the following answers this many times. He said, I don't recollect 116 times. I don't know 54 times. It's possible 47 times. I don't remember 18 times. I guess so 10 times. Not my knowledge 9 times. I won't put any time on it 6 times and I won't be positive 5 times.

So, real solid defense. Right there. Such a great job. Yeah. So he's unanimously found guilty on February 9th, 1898. They're like, okay. So there was another trial and then they finally were like, okay, yeah, dude, you're guilty. I think he kind of shot himself in the foot defending himself. Definitely. I mean, didn't you learn from like the first case, sir? Didn't you learn from like the first case, sir?

Yeah, yeah. But he sentenced to life in a Julie Joliet state prison on July 17th, 1899. He didn't serve it all the way. He died in his cell from degenerative heart disease. So it was from so much sausage. Exactly. That's what people have said is he was too invested in it, you know. I guess, okay, the one thing I was like worried about when I was like, oh, he killed his wife was like, he has a sausage factory. Yeah. Sausage in his meat blenders. That's what I thought. I was like, this is turning into like a sweetie Todd type of thing.

Yeah. And I was like, that's not going to be good. And so like, in a way, it's almost it could be worse. Better. Yeah. Like better and better that like the way he actually did it. Uh huh. Yeah. So, oh, my God. I want to like. yeah, I'm still like, thinking about like the experiment they did in the courtroom. I'm just like, oh my gosh.

Yeah. I think it'd be like disturbing and fascinating at the same time. I just pulled up the Wikipedia for Adolf and I just haven't read it but I looked through the early life part and it says he had a twin brother named Heinrich Friedrich Fritz Lutgert. Fritz! Well my Fritz was Friedrich Heinrich Fritz. And they were both German, huh? No. Yeah, they were both German. And they were both German, huh? No. Yeah, they were both German, yeah. And they were roommates. So they had like the same name. That's kind of crazy. Anyway. Fascinating. Yeah. They had like five names back then. I think it's fun how both of you had stories. Yeah. What were you saying? No, I was like, I think it's fascinating how both of you had stories from people from Germany.

Yeah. About... meat? Meat? I don't like that. Unfortunately. But yeah. You guys want to hear about some hauntings? Yeah.

Wait, yes! Yeah. Okay. So this was something I found along the way. Okay. So in 1901, this was like a year, two years after he passed away, Chicago police officers received a report that someone saw a light moving around inside the factory building. So, and it was abandoned, I'm pretty sure at this point. So two officers were sent and they saw a light in the windows. So they go in with their guns drawn, ready to go.

As do. American Belize. Yep. So there was a report published on April 4th, same year, quote, immediately a light darted before them as if it were a streak of lightning. It seemed to pass from the first floor down a stairway into the basement, where the boiler was. The officers followed, and when they got into the basement,

they saw the light again. It was in the very place where stood the famous middle vat in which the body of Mrs. Lutgert is thought to have been disintegrated. Oh shit. Detective John Quinn rushed for it, but it vanished and in less time than it could be realized was in a corner 50 feet away. The officer again approached it and this time was able to get within a few feet of the apparition, which all the while was distinctly that of a woman.

As the officer sprang for it, his arms were thrown about a small keg and his head went through a windowpane. Bro was just tossed out. There was another column, I think this came from a Chicago ghost tour thing, so take this as you will. But they claimed that Lutgert himself had also seen ghosts in his factory and accused police of hiring ghosts there to scare him. So that's just like...

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe he was just crazy. Yes, it's asked to hire a serial killer as an informant, but hiring a ghost? Yeah, that's a little beyond there. Very plausible. Yeah. Yeah, the police do that all the time. Wouldn't put it past them. Yeah. I will say there was a fire at the Lutger factory in 1904, but this only gutted the interior of the building.

And after that, it was converted into condos in the 1990s. So you can live there. We should go visit. That'd be cool. There was also a family who lived there in the 70s who reported stories about poltergeist activity in the basement. And they say in the apartments today, there's still like, like people will see a woman in white walking around an area where she died.

Okay, I like that. That's what you get for being a woman who's trying to give advice to your husband, I guess. Who's trying to make sure you're financially stable. Yeah. Economic crisis. You know what? No, I think that's what happens because she said, I told you so. No, I think that's what happens because she said, I told you so. She deserved it. You know, she could have just stayed quiet, but no, it was too tempting to tell her husband, I told you so.

I mean, she's been telling him for years. She did. She did. Literally. And she wasn't even, she was ready to leave, you know? Like she was so done with him, yeah. He could have just let her leave. Left her leave, yeah. Didn't let her out. And it wasn't even like a murder of passion or something, you know, like he planned it out.

Yeah, it was more of a control thing, like you're not gonna leave me. Like he planned it out, Yeah, it was more of a control thing. You're not going to leave me. He planned it out. He was just like, okay, well, I'm going to set up in advance getting all this ready to then lure her here and kill her. I think it was the housemaid who would make his bed, but there was some staff member, I'm pretty sure it was her, who he would tell all the time, like, oh my God, my wife's so annoying. I'm going sure it was her who he would tell all the time, like, Oh my god, my wife's so annoying. Like, I'm gonna kill her one day. Like, I hate this

lady. So like long time coming. Unfortunately. Yeah, don't marry someone you want to kill. No. For either party. No. No. I mean, I think it keeps it interesting, but each their own. If it's like hatred, that's fine, but not like urge to kill. Domestic violence. I have both. Okay. to kill domestic violence okay we know that Kai wants some spice yeah I mean yes I love

the yeah Jay was telling me like he texted me earlier he was like I had Sabina. Thank you guys. I was so glad to tell you. I love the... Yeah, Jay was telling me, he texted me earlier, he was like, oh yeah, Sabina's had her case ready for months. Yeah. So I was just like, here you go. I don't know, something about it just stuck with me. That's so funny. I didn't know Sausage King was an actual person. Yeah, more you know.

The Sausage king of Chicago. I believe there were others who also claimed to be the king, but in my heart. He's the real one. It's Lutgert. Okay, fair. Yeah. Lutgert, you were a terrible man, but I guess you were the sausage king. I gotta give you that. Credit where credit's due. Anyway, this was fun. And that is a wrap for today. Thank you guys for having me. This was so fun. Thanks for being here. Hopefully listeners enjoyed. I know they will. This was a good episode. So Be nice to my wife otherwise might end up in a

sausage factory, I Don't know. We're a river. You nice to your river Yeah, I might send her to Hawaii to get choked Better than a vat of acid, I guess. Yeah. Fair. We're getting your esophagus bitten out. Yeah. Yeah, that's rough. Yeah.

You need that. Uh. Well, we'll see you next episode, everyone. Thanks. Thanks. Make sure to check us out on everything because we're cool like that. We're also going to start posting TikToks pretty soon. So look out for those. Drop a follow.

Drop a follow. Unhunch your back. Sit up straight. Drink some water. Relax your shoulders. Unclench my jaw. Relax the tension in your neck. Stretch your fingers. Take a little out. Oh, another thing. You are now aware of the movement of your tongue. Thank you. Oh, my God. You are now manually breathing. Oh.

Okay, we're going to go before something else. I'm worried it gets weird. Bye, guys. Thanks for meeting. Bye. Bye. Eventually he got syphilis because of all of his affairs that he had. Literally womp womp.