Chart Music: the Top Of The Pops Podcast - #5 - August 14th 1980: Watch Yer Backs!

Episode Date: June 16, 2017

The fifth episode of the podcast which asks: why is Richard Stilgoe going on about acne? This episode finds Top Of The Pops smack in the middle of the Eighventies in a state of flux, after being off air for nine weeks due to a Musicians Union strike. The Kids are sat on the floor, the set is even more sparse than usual, and they're experimenting with guest co-hosts - a process which would start with Elton John and end with, er, Russ Abbot. This week, it's Tommy Vance and Roger Daltrey - The McVicar Himself - who takes crumpet-leering to heights that not even DLT would think possible, moans about The Clash not being on (when everyone else knows they don't do TOTP), and casts that aspersion upon the Village People. Musicwise, we carom from Ultravox awkwardly dancing behind synths to Legs & Co channelling the spirit of the International Day episode of Peppa Pig to the Dad in Worzel Gummidge performing an old song which isn't a patch on I Got Those Can't Get Enough Of Those Blue Riband Blues to Grace Jones with a fag on to David Bowie's dead expensive new video to Abba putting a right downer on everything at the end with their adult relationship break-up palaver. And the drummer of Slade sits there with a shaker for no real reason at all. Al Needham is joined by Taylor Parkes and David Stubbs for a through evisceration of 1980, veering off to talk about how Roger Daltrey put them off meat for life, what it's like to stop the night at Benny Out Of Abba's hotel, and how being dressed as a Pierrot on an orange beach and reacting to having your picture taken by a paparazzo as if you've been shot is a bit rubbish, really. And loads of swearing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the first radio ad you can smell. The new Cinnabon Pull-Apart only at Wendy's. It's ooey, gooey, and just five bucks for the small coffee all day long. Taxes extra at participating Wendy's until May 5th. Terms and conditions apply. What do you like listening to? Um... Chart music.

Chart music. Chart music Chart music Hey up you pop craze youngsters And welcome back to Chart Music The podcast that gets its hand right down the back of the sofa of a random episode of Top of the Pops. I'm your host, Al Needham, and as always, I'm joined by two people who know their shit backwards, forwards, sideways and inside out. First up, my man, Taylor Parks. Hello, Taylor. How are you, sir? All right. If I really struggle, I can remember a time when it was slightly worse than this.

Excellent. That's good. It's good. Brilliant. And my second guest was right with us from day one, and he makes a very welcome return, David Stubbs. David, how are you? I'm not doing so bad, thank you very much.

Excellent. Have a very sunny day. Yeah, it's lovely, isn't it? Nice day to be stuck in the house, fucking about with audacity and Skype so anyway David you've got another book on aren't you you're a fucking machine you are aren't you mate

yeah sort of perhaps a sort of traction engine really rather than a kind of sort of e-type but it's yeah it's sort of angles on electronic music the meaning of electronic music if I dare sort of you know it's called of angles on electronic music, the meaning of electronic music, if I dare sort of, you know,

whack slightly pretentious. It's called Mars by 1980. So that has a kind of resonance, you know, with people who were probably around in the 20th century, which, as we know, was the best century, apart from the, you know, the Holocaust and the dictators and whatever. But other than that, pretty good century.

And definitely not, you know, this one's not a patch on it. So there's an element of the sort of nostalgia of futurism and electronics as part of the kind of theme of the whole thing. So yeah, that's what I'm doing. It definitely improved about halfway through, didn't it, that century? It did, yes. I was just saying, yeah, anybody born after

1945 had a pretty good deal. We did. Right, so if you're a new listener or you've just been listening to this and going, what the fuck are they going on about? Let me tell you what goes down. We take one episode of Top of the Pops from back in the day and we pull it to bits until there's no more left. There's a chance that your favourite band or artist might get coated down, but we never forget that they've been on Top of the Pops more than we have. This episode takes us right back to august the 14th 1980 just one year ahead of the last

chart music uh but there's been a lot of changes hasn't there in the in the pop world it was a strange time really i mean it's just on the kind of cusp really it takes a long time for a sort of decade to get going really and you know the 80s just hasn't got get got going at this point at all really and there there's a strange atmosphere to this particular one it's almost like they're really. And, you know, the 80s just hasn't got going at this point at all, really. And there's a strange atmosphere to this particular one. It's almost like they're having a rethink. It's before suddenly

Top of the Box went and the colour came pouring in from all sides. Flags and balloons, yeah. Yeah, and the whole new pop explosion happened. It's a weird little hiatus. There's almost,

I don't know what they're trying to do here, but the vibe is almost, I don't know, sort of reflective. It's almost a bit old Grey Whistle test, but the vibe is almost, I don't know, sort of reflective. It's almost a bit old grey whistle test, like the vibe. Where is the dance in the studio? There's no sort of like, you know,

do you be sort of flirting with like, you know, people in the, you know, in the crowd or whatever. You know, that's all, you know, it's almost, it's, you know, it's more the kind of the man bonding between Roger Daltrey and Tommy Vance. So it's immediately the set of very strange vibe. And then that's really odd opening in which Roger Daltrey and Tommy Vance. So it's immediately the set of very strange vibe. And then that's really odd opening in which Roger Daltrey says, well, I'm gutted.

I came along to see The Clash and they're not playing, are they? It seems to me it's not so much that the 80s haven't started yet, but there is in fact a sort of cultural interregnum between the 70s and the 80s. If you look at the very late 70s, the post-punk 70s, and the very early 80s, that's a period all of its own of Minder and not the 9 o'clock news. And this fits in very nicely. It's the event is, isn't it?

Yep. so what was in the news at this time well jimmy carter has just accepted the democratic nomination in new york a state judge in texas has blocked the exhumation of lee harvey oswald and four glue sniffers are on trial in Glasgow for watching their friend drown while they thought they were just hallucinating. Margaret Thatcher visits the 12,000 family who've bought their own council house in East London and is booed by the rest of the street but the big news is that Donington is getting ready for the first ever Monsters of Rock at the weekend. The cover of the NME this week is The Beat and the cover of Smash Hits is The Police.

The number one LP in the UK is Back in Black by ACDC. In the USA the number one single is Magic by Olivia Newton-John and the number one LP is Emotional Rescue by the Rolling Stones.

So chaps, what were we doing in August of 1980? I was preparing to go to Oxford. Well, I was doing the Oxford exams. So I was still in the sixth form, I was in the lower sixth. And I think at that point I was really just, my music taste had really just entered a new level of sort of critical intensity. I'd really started things like Joy Division, Suicide, Why, you know, really trying to go into the sort of post-punk deep end of things. And I was disdainful of the shallow, as you

can imagine, and probably didn't watch Top of the Pops as often as I might have done in previous years. Read The Enemy absolutely voraciously and intensely and took absolutely every word to heart and probably remember things people wrote then that the writers themselves I'm sure have long forgotten. Fucking hell, there was a lot of words back then, wasn't there? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was the year I mean, do you think Enemy, in 1980

Jean-Paul Sartre died and Enemy ran an obituary. I don't think that would be happening in 2017. So yeah, the NME was part of this kind of intensity. Yeah, it was obviously a very fascinating

formative year for me. Another thing about me at that point is I was absolutely shit scared of nuclear war. I really was. I just didn't really dare to think more than two or three months ahead in terms of the world carrying on or what have you I was absolutely paralysed with fear about nuclear war I was playing football and being a pain in the arse

same as now except I could still play football What about music though, what were you into then? I was too young really, I think it was 1980 was the year that i got into music because i remember when john lennon got killed at the end of the year um and i've never heard of him um and then within six months i was a beatles fanatic so that was kind of yeah i'm just i'm still washing top of the pops as a yeah as a sort of detached observer. You know what I mean?

This is like, I mean, I haven't got a big brother, but if I had, this would be the big brother's kingdom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, music-wise, I'd just entered the football supporter phase of my music life, where you just lock on to one or two bands and you just ignore all the other ones i was a i was as big as a jam head as a 12 year old boy could be at the time but more importantly the august of 1980 i got my first job which was a program world a football program shop

in uh in nottingham so yeah happy days for me so what was on telly tonight? Well, BBC One, Liquid Gold, The Regents and Dollar have all been on Cheggers Plays Pop. There's been a special edition of Panorama about Jimmy Carter and Teddy Kennedy. And just before this episode of Top of the Pops, Richard Stilgo

clears up all the myths about acne cream in Looking Good, Feeling Fit. No tomorrow's world this week. Richard Stilgoe got a beard. Yes, he did, yes. I mean, I don't know. And he wasn't a teenager either. He wasn't 14.

No. Why would Richard Stilgoe? Well, to be honest, mate, I mean, if Richard Stilgoe's going to have to tackle one section of puberty, you know, thank God it's that one. There's a tempting thought. On BBC Two, JR has just fucked up the family business

in an episode of Dallas. And on ITV right now, there's the 1954 World War II film Conflict of Wings, Britain won. Good evening and welcome once again to Top of the Pops. My name is Tommy Vance and to help me on the programme tonight I've got the Mac Vicar himself, Roger Daughtry, who's looking a bit miserable. With good reason, mate. With good reason.

Why? I've come all the way here to see The Clash and now I find they're not on. Well, we've got some great people on the show. Well, who have you got? We've got ABBA and their great single which is called The Winner Takes It All. We've got ABBA and their great single which is called The Winner Takes It All. We've got the new single by David Bowie which is called Ashes to Ashes. From ELO, all their music danced to by the delectable Lex & Co. Blackberry's back in the charts after a long absence with the sunshine of your smile.

There's that great lady by the name of Grace Jones and Private Life. And as usual, the village people can't stop the music. Plus somebody new to the screen, a lady by the name of Sue Wilkinson and her incredible little single. Born in Oxfordshire in 1940, Richard Hope Weston joined the Merchant Navy at the age of 16 and eventually ended up in Seattle as radio DJ Tommy Vance. That's how he pronounced his name then because he was a 60s and he was British and everyone British was posh. Unless they were Beatles, of course. He returned to the UK and spent the mid-60s at Radio Caroline, Radio Luxembourg and Radio London. to the UK and spent the mid-60s at Radio Caroline, Radio Luxembourg and Radio

London. He joined the BBC World Service in the late 60s before moving to Radio 1 as a co-host of Top Gear with John Peel and he got married to Diane Hunter of Crossroads. Really? Miss Diane? Yes, Miss Diane, yes. Wow. In the early 70s

a memo was circulated amongst the BBC accusing him of being the king of the orgies and part of a ring of five DJs who played records in return for prostitutes. And he's currently hosting the Friday Rock Show, which has just started. And that was pretty much the niche he was going to be known as for the rest of his radio career. Tommy Vance, what do we think of him? Yeah, I suppose it's a bit like kind of Kid Jensen at the time. There was that kind of, though, for slightly kind of transatlantic people.

But, I mean, as English in a sense of the American, you know, pronounced Kettering, Kettering. And it's sort of like the final desperate hangover from really punk, really, because obviously the great thing that punk did was just unashamedly kind of, if you're from England, London, you know, you had that kind of Rod Stewart sort of thing before that

where everybody had to speak in a kind of faux American accent or whatever, and punk explodes all that. Everything becomes regional, local, and strong regional accents, and, you know, all over the world or whatever, if you're Germany, sing in German or whatever. And this kind of idea of a sort of soft American accent

as like the default accent is something that punk's supposed to be exploring, but of course it hasn't. Something like Tommy Vance still shows that people are still very wistful for that idea and still want it. He's unmistakably an adult, isn't he? That's what really stands out. He's not trying to be youthful. He's not trying to knock 10 years off his age

by the way he carries on in front of the camera. He's a man. Yeah, in a child's world. I mean, you do get the feeling with this episode because for some bizarre reason, everybody seems to be sitting down in the links. It does feel bit i don't know school assembly like oh absolutely or like the annual british science lecture something like that yes they're definitely sort of trying to kind of you know sit down and attend this week's hits yes there's yes i mean if you consider like

the kind of rampant party atmosphere and they keep the dd bothers away you know that kind of came coursing in about just a year or so later. I mean, this was obviously, I don't know, it's almost like, you know,

in the history of Top of Pops, they're putting their foot on the ball and pausing for thought or something like that. But yes, for some reason, they've decided to make it

slightly whistle-testy and almost have a kind of critique going on and obviously, in his, albeit slightly facile way, I think Roger Daltrey is there to have a sort of

sidelong angle on this whole Top Pop business, you know, with his various kind of comments and snarky remarks and what have you. And Tommy Vance is playing straight man to him there, you know. Well, why is he on? Well, Top of the Pops has just come off a nine-week break due to the Musicians' Union strike, which happened after the BBC had axed five of its 11 house orchestras.

And this is the second one since the layoff. You remember that strike, don't we? The middle of the 80s, all those violinists huddling around braziers throwing bricks at police officers and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, second repeating orchestras in Scotland and stuff. So for some reason, possibly to do with an enforced relaunch, Top of the Pops was going through a phase of having guest co-presenters.

The previous week was Elton John. The week after this one was Cliff Richard. Then it was B.A. Robertson. Then it was Kevin Keegan. And finally, Russ Abbott before they packed it in. Yeah, that actually happened. You can just sense, you know, they're going after this great Pelton. You can't sustain that pace, unfortunately.

Elton, Cliffie, Roger and then Theo Robertson. You can just sense that steep decline until you hit that. And then you hit the Abbott pits and you realise, no, there's no way back now. Diminishing returns. Also, what makes it worse? Although, despite the fact that it's quite a dead audience, they're mic'd up really loud. Did you notice that?

Yes. Much louder than normal. And they're not doing anything. It's all the time that Tom and Roger are bantering or there's records playing. You can hear people chatting amongst themselves. It sounds like a school dinner hall. They're all chattering and nattering,

and it's echoey, and it's much too loud compared to the music. And it's, yeah, it's, I don't know, it's like they've just got some amateurs in to do it. It sounds terrible. So before we go any further, chaps, I don't know how this conversation is going to go. I've got an inkling. Let's start by each of us going around the circle and saying something positive about roger daltrey taylor he's got a great voice david my turn oh you caught me on hot now

i said it i said it there's nothing left now all right i know oh yes in fact i was just a variation he's got a great voice. You need to have four people in a band because three doesn't really work. And otherwise, the Who would have been a bit like the jam. Sorry, Al. And you couldn't really outfeed Townsend singing. And yeah, you needed a kind of a sort of plausible sort of puppet up front, which is effectively what Roger Daughtry was.

And I'm sure that he farms excellent trout. Yes. was um and i'm sure that he farms excellent trout yes also he used he used to he used to beat up the other members of the who when they started because they were all like piss takers and they were always on drugs and drunk and he was wanting to be more professional and he he used to punch him in the face all the time they got sick of it and threw him out the band and he said all right um i won't beat you up anymore um and he kept to it despite Keith Moon antagonising and goading him as much as possible

stopped beating them up just like that and to be an inveterate thug and to change your ways just like that that's impressive self control I mean never mind the fact that being a fucking millionaire pop star

was the prize at the other end, if you could just keep your fists to yourself. And, of course, the other thing about Roger Daltrey is, I mean, how many other lead singers can you think of who are the third or possibly even fourth most important member of their band? Yeah, I probably... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Join equal fourth, I would say. Also, one more thing I've, yeah, yeah, yeah. Join equal force, I would say, yeah. Also, one more thing I just got to say, because it's all corny, he put me on the road to vegetarianism. He was on the multicolored swap shop, or swap shop as it might even have been in the briefings by then, at that point. Noel Evans was interviewing him,

and he was talking about his farming, and he was talking about the fact that, obviously, they kind of rear their own produce and meat, and he was talking about that, obviously, they'd slaughter one of their animals, and that would then provide them with meat. And, you know, he's talking about that, you know, obviously they'd slaughter one of their animals and that would then provide them with meat. And he says, you know, for the next few weeks, he says, yeah. And, of course, they gave all their animals names.

He said, yeah, we're just eating Harry at the moment. So they had these animals. They gave him a name, Harry, slaughtered him, and then they were eating him. They said, oh, Harry tastes good, doesn't he? And I just thought how – it just felt monstrous to me i can't really kind of go into all of that but how could you be that kind of blithe and it's obviously it set me on my kind of sentimental squeamish path towards vegetarianism so yeah

that's another good thing that roger daughtry did wow well i'm just gonna add um i really like the way he sings the word cold in can't explain and the way he swings a microphone round like he did at Woodstock, that's impressive. Introduced by Tommy Vance as the McVicar himself which I thought was played by Molly Weir surely Tommy

Vance knew who John McVicar was surely Tommy Vance knew John McVicar, perhaps it's bizarre that that introduction was allowed to pass well maybe McVicar actually saw Tommy Vance's video in Brass Eye

you've gone done it again no pint of foaming nut brown ale for you Mr McVicar this is a complete sidebar we specialise in sidebars, mate. John McVicar was in correspondence with my ex-wife in terms of the work that she was doing, and she was working with this organisation, Prisoners' Board,

or anyway, something like that. And he was involved in that, and he corresponded with her. And at one point he said that one of the ways he was making a living was he was leading classes for women in how to achieve orgasm. What? Yeah. He wrote it quite candidly. He just thought offhandedly.

He said he couldn't make it next Thursday because he led regular classes for women. £20 an hour. He didn't divulge the rates, but this is something he was doing, apparently, towards the end of his day. Well, of course, Roger Daltrey's... One of the reasons that Roger Daltrey

is on top of the pops is that he's just come off. The reference to McVicar is the film McVicar, which is probably Roger Daltrey's best acting performance. But then again, that is like describing something as the best ballet company in Mansfield. Bertie, do you remember anything about that film? I'll break your jaw. The only thing I can remember about that film is the other prisoner who's got a nudie woman on his door and she's she's kind of like the

photos taken from behind her and there's this the spiel that the uh the prison officer looks through is exactly where her arsehole is so every time he looks inside the the cell um you can just see this eye in this woman's arsehole that's the only thing i can remember about that film clever isn't it it's very clever man if i ever go into prison i'm definitely gonna do that don't you think though with roge when you see him uh not framed on the stage and not framed by a film camera, when you see him in the top of the pop studio just standing there, he's so unimposing, isn't he? It's rare to see a macho rock frontman so physically unimposing.

It's not just that he's dinky, it's that he's almost bashful. He doesn't seem self confident at all it's quite surprising it's like a fish out of water isn't it yeah you can see why he won such plaudits as an actor with his slick slicks here oh I came all the way

here to see the clash all the way you're from Shepherds Bush mate if you want to advertise how far you've moved from your route, stand in Shepherd's Bush. I came all the way, yeah, I left the Trout to come here for the Clash. It's the second half of 1980. Look at me, I like the Clash.

Yeah, he's gone out from the Trout. It's such a bizarre and strange opening. Is it meant as, I mean, obviously the Clash were saying at that point that they would refuse to do Top of the Pops, Point Blank, so we want it to stop. You know, it's kind of an argument that at least one group did this. I don't they would refuse to do Top of the Pops, Point Blank, and we want it to stop. It's kind of an angle that at least one group did this. I don't want everybody not to play Top of the Pops, but it was kind of fun that one group said,

we're not going to play it, we stand against it. I kind of like that. It's a strange thing in the light of that to actually bring up at the top of the show in a way that just seems to create bemusement, really. It's not even banter really it's just a kind of awkward slightly morbid remark at the beginning of a rather depressing dinner party or something it's a very very strange opening indeed he's promoting the new single free

me which is stuck at number 39 and it has been for two weeks i mean we're not going to see this uh this never appeared on top of the pops but it is worth talking about, isn't it? In fact, they don't even mention it. They don't even mention that he's got a record out. Yeah, until the end. Until the very end, yeah. But they don't even tell you what it's called. But it's a magnificent video, isn't it?

Oh, it's astonishing. Yeah. It's almost like it's got elements of early German expressionism, the cabinet of Dr Caligari and the way that the kind of sheer expression

is like the enormous bloke advanced on him with menaces possibly of a kind of sodomite nature in that kind of makeshift cell and he wears throughout the video the expression of a terrified horse sodomite nature in that kind of makeshift sort of cell. And he wears,

throughout the video, he wears the expression of a terrified horse. It really does. We'll be having it on our video playlist. I strongly recommend everyone listening to this

to go and check the video out. It's quite amazing. The best thing about it is that it's like Roger is so macho that he doesn't understand homoeroticism it's like he's exactly so deep in it that it's like uh like a mustache on a copper in 1990 1991 it's like he has no idea just it it's you know it's so hard so tough so manly

it means nothing to him. There's something inadvertently going on. Obviously, what's happened, a lot of people of his generation, it's 1980 now, they realise they've got to sort of taper, they look a little bit new wave, you know, and suddenly cropped. And the result is something that is, yes, inadvertently, you know, homoerotic. Well, I'm of the opinion that the 70s began when

Roger Daltrey developed a perm and I also believe that 70s ended when Roger Daltrey got rid of his perm. Exactly.

Yeah. And he's kind of like rocking this kind of midlife crisis look with the leather jacket and the t-shirt but he wears it

well. You've got to give that to him. Yeah but this is that all those 60s pop stars this is that period when 60s pop stars this is that period when they were sort of mid to late 30s with that difficult that you're not really

middle-aged like by any uh objective standards you're a young young person but you're not young in pop music terms so like they've still got the leathers some of them have still got long hair you know they're still prancing about but their faces are just starting to go you know i mean it's it's really interesting when i was 15 it was hilarious you'd look at uh what he'd be here what 36 or something roger you'd look at him and it would just be laughable you know whereas now i think look at this young fella we're used to having the top 30 rundown right at the top of the show, but now you're being told exactly what's on. Is that a

good thing or a bad thing? I think it's a very bad thing myself. Yeah, the idea is that you see that and you think, oh, I mustn't switch off. I've got to hang on for Sue Wilkinson. But it's, you know, it could work both ways. It ruins it really, doesn't it? Absolutely. I mean,

this is it.'s it's you know it's just taking away the sort of sense of breathless suspense and the ascent through the hip parade it's um yeah yeah again it gives it back to you know it's almost like a kind of academic paper and just like you know there was a catch of academic writing is like to say what you're about to say then say it then say you just said it's almost like and um yes announcing everything in detail in advance like that definitely gives you that kind of British science lecture that we mentioned earlier.

I might turn over and watch that World War II film. Although it does mean that Tommy gets to tell us that later on it's ELO, all their music danced to by the delectable legs and co. Because he's so under-rehearsed, right? Tommy Vance, he's so under rehearsed right that's tommy vance he's uh very experienced dj right he's been going for more than 10 years he can't even do the links on top of the pops probably he hasn't rehearsed he doesn't know what he's doing he says elo he

can't remember what the song's called he just says oh all their music danced to by the delectable legs and co that's not going to happen. Now, we start off with a band who six months ago, everybody thought, well, they probably would have to get out of the business because their lead singer had left, but they'd found themselves now a very, very clever man from Scotland by the name of Midge Ewer. Their name is Ultravox, and this is the single that's 29 in the charts. It's called Sleepwalk. Sleepwalk.

Sleepwalk. Tommy Vance can't be bothered to stand up as he points out that everyone had thought Ultravox had shot it, but then they met a very clever man from Scotland. He didn't want to be in the band, so they got Midior in instead. After the original band split up when john fox left in 1979 keyboardist billy curry hooked up with midior previously of slick the rich kids and thin lizzy to assist with visage and asked him to be the lead singer of the reformed ultravox this is the first track from the new lp vienna and it's up from number 33 to number 29. This is the future, isn't it?

As far as 1980 goes. Synthesizers and all that palaver. Well, absolutely. I mean, it's strange, really, because he's obviously, as you point out, he's a serial opportunist. He's mid-year, you know, starts off with Slick,

who are set from the same stable as Bay City Rollers, then jumps on the whole punk thing with Rich Kitter or Tev, and obviously sort of flirting with Thin Lizzy in the meantime and then all of a sudden, you know, this kind of electro-pop and it's probably a little bit, in fairness, it's a little bit further ahead when it comes to the electro-pop thing in terms of what's going on, although things are moving very quickly at that point.

So, yes, here he perhaps does look like some sort of electronic music pioneer or whatever as opposed to the kind of, essentially, the opportunist he always was. Yeah. Like a lot of the songs of the time, I have to say that it starts very arresting and it catches the ear, but you want it to fuck off after a bit, don't you?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, after about 30 seconds, yeah. But I think the key thing about this is it might be the first time that a load of people are standing behind a load of keyboards on top of the pops without beards and flares. True, but they do

have to deal with the, I think, a problem that we discussed last time we did this. The question of how to perform from behind keyboards. Well, exactly, yes. In this case, they solved the problem with a legs-only rubber man dance. Yes!

That the guitarist from Fine Young Cannibals would have rejected as too undignified. The funny thing as well, you look at Midge in this, he's still at this stage where in his own mind there is a sense in which he's like Brian Ferry. Yes. He's doing those sort of turns and like putting his chin down and that. It's, oh, it's awful.

Because you look at him and all you can hear is the landlord has specified that no DSS. There's no, there's nothing of Brian Ferry about him at all. Apart from the sense of being quite empty inside. And the untied bow tie. But he's got it so symmetrical. I could do that. It looks like, the first time I saw this, I thought he'd got like two wine bottles around his neck.

He's gone for that kind of like, you know, lounge lizard look, but he's got it so precise that it just, it's just self-defeating. But if you're someone like Mijura, this is how you ultimately get by. I mean, absolute sort of brazen confidence and shamelessness and disregard for like past complete failures or whatever.

It's, you know, that's how you do it, I suppose. Well, he's gone for, like Taylor says, he's gone for Brian Ferry, but the overall look is Eddie Shoestring, isn't it? Yeah, and then there's, of course, the tash as well. There we go, yeah. But it's interesting, I mean, the whole thing about performing behind keyboards, because it's not like rock and roll didn't have, you know,

there's a lot of impressed instruments from the beginning, I mean, whether it was anybody from Jerry Lee Lewis or whatever, even like some Elton John or whatever whatever and yet it's still something that sort of people feel desperately awkward about and it's one of these things i think is what repressed the kind of progress of sort of synth music you know that could have like sort of developed and could have perhaps developed a little bit earlier but i think the people were really you know deeply uncomfortable with the posture that you assume when you're playing a keyboard, whatever. And that, you know, it's far easier to kind of either sort of be a lead vocalist

and sort of strike those kind of particular kind of bullish poses or, you know, like wrap it around a guitar or whatever and use it for obvious kind of phallic purposes. And, yeah, I think there's still a deep awkwardness about the keyboard and a deep suspicion of the keyboard. Not least from Tommy Vance, because when this is finished and he comes back on, he says, I'm not a guitar in sight. Despite the fact that by this point, he's the only person in Britain

who finds that shocking in some way. I mean, Billy Curry, I believe it is. He makes a very gallant effort to go a bit mad in the middle of the eight, but it just doesn't come off. And yet it's a clear case of keyboardist envy here, isn't it? I mean, you get the feeling often that they're saying, look, yes, okay, so we've got synths and keyboards and everything, but we're still a proper band on this.

Look at us going mad. But in a way, it's almost like at this point, you've got Electropop, but it's not been coloured in yet. And it kind of gets coloured in with your romantics, whatever, and various things like that, and at this stage it's, yeah. But the thing with Mitch, you think, why doesn't he look

at himself on TV and think oh God, I have to change everything about myself. But he doesn't, right and but if he had done it it'd be you know it'd be branch manager of foxton's now it's it's what is that good or bad i don't know and one thing that did strike me about this no no syndromes a proper drum kit yeah it was all the rage then it's good as well it's a good thing like the uh analog synths and a real drum kit sounds always sounds good that's what's on all those

early newman records that's why they still sound good now yeah exactly because the sound of a sound of a real drum kit doesn't date as fast as the sound of electronic drums and again that's another thing of the taboos around like synth pop electronic music is this idea that work isn't being done you know this is nothing there has to be a spectacle of labor there has to be a spectacle of efforts you know i mean the old podcast years later when they all go on and they just press um they click a keyboard and play chess you know throughout the blue room when when they have that as a hit you know and they're being sarcastic you know that people need to feel that there's work being done otherwise there's something short changed so a proper drum kit represents physical effort you know it's a

Sydney fire so Sleepwalk would drop two places the following week but then go back up to number 29 but that was its highest position the follow-up Passing Strangers would fail to make the top 40 in October of 1980 and it wasn't until January of 1981 that they released Vienna. Can you imagine that they sat on that song for like, you know, three goes around? Well, yeah, yeah, it's Vienna. It means nothing to me. It's, yeah, yes, I find it very alienating at the time. Maybe they just listened to it and thought,

yeah, it's crap, isn't it, really? It's just overblown rubbish. I was into dancing at the time, and I could simply not understand the point of songs like that. If you're going to do that, what are you supposed to do? You could sort of hang around the dance floor for two and a half, three minutes, and then they kind of suddenly inject a...

Then it was just like what were we supposed to be doing those first two and a half minutes? Or we were supposed to sit on the side and then slide in on our knees onto the dance floor Standing by statues or something like that or waltzing, obviously. You're supposed to smoke mysteriously.

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. And walk about in raincoats. Yeah. To the bar or the toilets or something. Some of us do that all the time. And that was Majeure, who's the lead vocalist now with Ultra Vox.

And the record's number 29 in the charts, it's called Sleepwalk. Another guitar in sight. Let me turn now to Roger Galtry. Roger, you've recently, I think, just come from the States, isn't it? You've been doing a tour? Yeah, I just did a tour over there with The Who, yeah. Uh-huh. Good tour? Yeah, down in Texas with the sun.

I wonder where you got the sun, then. Yeah, they've got all our sun down there, mate. What about a new album as far as The Who is concerned well it should be out in around uh february we're still recording it's taking quite a long time hopefully february i've always wanted to ask you this question with regard to singers what sort of singers do you like who do you listen to oh so many i think it's easier to name people i don't like it is there's so many people i like would you react positively to dav Bowie? Yeah, one of the governors. Great guy.

I'm glad you said that. He was something different. Because here he is. And this piece of film, incidentally, costs something like £40,000 to make, and it features David Bowie with his new single. It's gone in straight at four, and it's called Ashes to Ashes. Tommy Vance mentions that there's not a guitar in sight in the Ultravox song and Roger Daltrey shoots him the filthiest look.

Did you notice that? That's just Roger's natural expression. If you look at him on this, his eyes are darting all around the studio the whole time, as if the taxman's about or something. He doesn't look comfortable at any point. Or a really big, angry trout. Harry's back. Even in this episode, you can sense that dark new forces of the world,

you know, the forces of disco and inauthenticity and guitarlessness are all gathering like storm clouds. And, you know, Roger can sort of sense in his bunions that, youions that things have gone afoul. There's a brief chat about The Who's latest American tour which was a success and then a discussion about David Bowie who, according

to Daltrey, is one of the governors who always brings something different. And according to Tommy Vance, he's called David Bowie. Oh, did he drop the B-bomb? Oh yeah, yeah, he does it all the way through, he's called David Bowie. Oh, did he drop the B-bomb? Oh, yeah, yeah. He does it all the way through. All the way through, yeah.

That's awful. Have you ever said Bowie in your lifetime? I have. Oh, when did you stop? Well, from up north, David Bowie. There's regional allowances made. It's nice, though, when Rog responds positively to the mention of uh david

bowie's name or david bowie's name um it's sort of like it's terrible but it's like you know when you're talking to like an old bloke or a stranger at a bus stop or in the pub or something and he's really rough arsed and somehow the conversation gets round to like a delicate subject or something and your heart's in your mouth and he says I don't see anything wrong with it and suddenly you turn into one of those upper middle class liberals, well done well done

well done for not being a bigot, it's a bit like that you know what I mean, it's like oh he likes David Bowie, he's not, yeah So the lead off single from forthcoming LP Scary Monsters and Super Creeps. This is the follow-up to his cover of Alabama Song, which got to number 23 in March of 1980,

and he's fucking mental. As Tommy points out, it's a hugely expensive video, but it was actually made at a cost of over a quarter of a million pounds, which is a bit more than the £40,000 that Tommy mentions. It was filmed at Pet Level in East Sussex with Steve Strange and a few of his mates, who had been asked to appear in it the night before when Bowie pitched up at the Blitz Club.

Despite being described in the review section of Smash Hits as not a hit, it's this week's highest new entry at number four. I think it is the first point at which um you sent a song being defined by its video i mean you know it's not so many years later that people would say things like have you seen the latest paul or abdul single or something like that which is just something an inconceivable weird thing to say to people in the early generation but you do absolutely associate this particular single with that video and of course that raises the complaint that people have with videos

is that people have got a single association with a piece of music, which is a bit depressing. You should have a million associations, you know, or imaginary visual associations with a piece of music. But we kind of saddle with this one, really. And to me, I think that, because I don't know, to me it's the infancy of video. There's a lot of money heaps in it,

a lot of ideas in it, there's a lot of colour and there's a sort of sense of the nascent sort of brutal company in itself i think it's just a bit of rubbish video just technically it's that era where people don't use grainy um imagery you know if everything is studio lit you know you don't have that kind of sort of filmic grain that you get on videos a bit later on i think lends them a slight air of sophistication probably covering over the all the kind of naivety, the slightly daft and conceived ideas are almost like overlit, you know, because everything, you know,

everything's slightly over bright. And of course, a lot of the kind of, you know, the effects or whatever when he's bobbing in the water look pretty awful or whatever. So I suppose I've always had a slight problem with that. At the same time, it is an absolute, you know, it's a moment. I mean, it is a futuristic moment. It's just the same time, it is an absolute, you know, it's a moment. I mean, it is a futuristic moment. It's just in itself, I think it's, you know, a bit of a mess.

Because I remember working in the programme shop, one of the managers there was a bloke called Dave Bullis, and he was an absolute fucking bowie head. It was insane about him. And I remember when it got to number four, listening to the charts that Tuesday and he was just running up and down the counters just punching the air and he's like yeah fucking

Bowie's back. See this is his best single I think this is his best single yeah I think this is his best single but I hate the video and I always have done and I think it's awful because this is the side of Bowie that gave us Toyah and hazel o'connor and

won the juggler this is this is it it's the bit that everyone likes to sort of sweep under the carpet you know that as well as being fantastic he he was also a pillock you know and brought us brought into pop music this uh sort of dreadful kind of amateur avant-garde theater stuff it's like well it was this the the pop harlequin or whatever which basically I've said it a few years earlier yeah but but but the thing is with Bowie it he did it with enough quality in the actual music that it allowed pop music to be more thoroughly patronized by people who are into highbrow art right like i went to that vna exhibition about bowie a couple of years ago yeah and it was uh it was all right but whenever you read the stuff like the the blurb that went

with the exhibits it was this terrible terrible thing that like they had no idea of what the actual value of david bowie was right which is that he was a a great singer and a great songwriter and a intriguing stylist and uh this is it's not that he brought kabuki theater into pop music or something that's not important nobody cares it's the what it is it's the also there's something there's something deeply patronizing about it because these people they're in a highbrow art they know that someone dressed as a fucking piero walking along an orange beach and then reacting to having their picture taken by a paparazzo as though they've been shot with a gun is not good art right this is isn't

good it's crap right it's like fucking street corner shit but they they know but they treat it like as though it should be taken seriously like it's the best that these rock and roll fellas can do you know like a dog making a paw print or a or a kid who's been raised by chimpanzees pointing to himself and saying, Daniel! It's like incredible achievement by the standards of rock and roll. This is bullshit. The whole point is that it's a fundamental misunderstanding

of what rock and roll is. The idea that if you do something that a proper artist would sneer at, that makes you automatically better than Bo Diddley. It's fucking offensive. It's like the literary thing where Christopher Briggs would elevate someone like Bob Dylan or what's that,

because he's the one thing that redeems the whole medium because of the words and because of lyrics and because he almost aspires to the altogether superior condition of literature. Yeah. But the thing is, what they're also missing is that the point is in rock and roll you can dress like a cock and make some sort of grand failed stab at profundity or whatever and it doesn't matter that it's failed because it might work in another way it might work as

as a laugh or as a gimmick or as cheap flash. And that's fine. It doesn't matter. That's just, that's okay. You have the freedom to do that in pop music in a way that you don't in other art forms. Yeah, and as soon as you lose that concept, all the possibility is drained out of pop music. But it's a good song, though, isn't it? Yeah, it's his best one. I mean, is this the weirdest number one single there's ever been?

It's got to be up there, I think. What, up the way of Moldy Old Doe? See, I can never remember what was number one. It was Kings of the Wild Frontier, number one. No, it wasn't, was it? Because that's a weirder record sonically than Ashes to Ashes, or as weird. But people don't think of it like that.

And isn't it a shame that Steve Strange didn't get in Boy George and someone out of Spandau Valley to walk in front of that bulldozer? Because then it would be like the next generation, like paying homage to the source. But then again, he probably thought, fuck that, I'm having all the glory. I often thought it was a shame that Steve Strange didn't walk in front of a poor guy. What do you think David Bowie's mum's saying to him there at the end? I think it's either take that makeup off and get a proper job

or I don't care who you are, Duck, as long as you're happy. It's either or, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's latter, really. You'll always be my son. You'll come out of this phase, don't worry. Yeah, you'll start making estate agent music in a couple of years. So the following week it hit number one and it stayed there for two weeks, eventually being knocked off by Start by The Jam.

The follow-up, Fashion, got to number five. Scary Monsters would be his first number one LP in the UK since Diamond Dogs in 1974. He's still one of the greatest. Anyway, there's an awful lot I'd like to say about Legs & Co. But I'm afraid they'll probably bleep me out if I do. What I can say is here they are, dancing to an ELO song all over the world. Roger Daltrey casts more praise upon David Bowie

and then alludes to how much he'd like to give legs and comb one as he introduces ELO. If I had to say what I really wanted to say, they'd have to bleep it out. I can imagine. Remember that film he was in in the mid-70s, List Mania, where he's just there on the end of this massive cock with loads of women on it.

I think that's what he was thinking about. See, the same thing that makes Roger Daltrey a great and convincing rock and roll singer and front man of the old school um also off stage leads to this and it's it's relatively benign compared to what some of these people have got wrong with them yes uh but but it hasn't aged well no it really hasn't has it i think that's the nicest way of putting it i mean it's just the same thing i would have to use expletives i mean how would those sentences pan out in any way kind of actionable in some way it's uh yeah um

yeah it's but what's the strange thing of course pants people as ever um there's a kind of i think they're just beginning to at this point oh yeah sorry legs and coat at this point i think that people are hot gossip from getting there they're starting to kind of realize there's a gap in the market for somebody that actually dances in a rather erotic way even as there's just a tiny bit of bump and grind going on in the pants people and in legs and coat routines but most of the still doing these kind of doing these weird little lexicon of little kicks and sort of grinds and sort of eurythmic type movements or teller that wouldn't look out of place at the kind of grammar school. I mean, you're right, David, because at this time, Hot Gossip would be dancing with black men. And you also had Hills Angels.

They just started. And even Little and Large had their own dance troupe called Foxy Feeling. Do you remember them? You also had Hills Angels, they'd just started. Even Little and Large had their own dance troupe called Foxy Feeling. Do you remember them? There was the Roly Poly. I do not. I can clearly remember the competition they had to name the new Top of the Pops dance troupe. Even as a kid, being a little bit unnerved when it was legs and like this sort of

disembodied objectified legs and coat right and it's like you know it's like the runner up was pussy etc you know what I mean tits plus arse

incorporated meat meat here they are yeah i know it's it's it is disturbing but i don't know it's the thing is to counteract that they've all got names like your aunt is do you know what i mean they're called jill pauline rosemary sue um Lulu. It's like, yeah, it's like, go and see your auntie Lulu. It's almost like it's another bucket of cold water over the audience. So they're dancing to All Over The World by ELO. Formed in Birmingham in 1970 by Jeff Lynne and Roy Wood as an offshoot of the move, ELO had a debut top ten hit

with 105.3 Overture before Roy Wood left to form Wizard. Jeff Lynne took over and the band had 19 UK chart hits, 13 of which went top 10. This is a follow-up to their first and only number one Xanadu with Olivia Newton-John which is still in the charts at number 20 and it's the second cut from the soundtrack to that film which starred Olivia Newton-John john gene keller and swan are to the warriors and it's up from number 24 to number 18 do we talk about the song or do we talk about the routine first chaps i think well no the routine i mean you can certainly say about flick colby she was never afraid to kind of um give a kind of absolutely literal scrupulously literal interpretation of any given song so there's the world and there they are all around it.

Yeah, they've got a massive globe that they're all dancing around. And it's like a sexy version of the International Day episode in Peppa Pig. The one that ends up with global conflict in the adventure playground and the line, Great Britain is on the slide. On the slide, yeah. Lex and co are dancing on podiums in front of a huge rotating globe like a sexy bbc one logo of the time shall we go through the the nationalities taylor i've been examining this very closely there's uh there's um uh yeah the the some of them are pretty obvious right like

there's uh well most of them are pretty obvious yeah they're less in the stars and stripes and cowboy hat yeah fairly safe bet that she's representing america there's a one with chopsticks in her hair and a kimono a skimpy kimono yeah of course what else is there there's a a sort of um a scott in a in a tamo shanta and a little kilt. Yes. Sort of like porn star kilt. Yeah, basically. There's a I think Hawaiian, but despite the fact that they've already got America

and that is part of America, so maybe it's just a general Polynesian with a sort of a flower li or whatever they're called. Yeah, she's got a lei and a scrub of glittery material wrapped around her arse. That'll do for Hawaii. And there's

Hen Knight Lederhosen as well, isn't there? That's right. Lederhosen and one of those little alpine hats. The mystery is the one at the front who, now, we did a bit of pre-production on this. We did, yes. A little chat.

It's like, can we establish what nationality she's supposed to be? Well, I looked at this and I showed a friend and we came to the conclusion that it's Britain, right? Why? Because she's got... Because she's got this big tiara thing on, yeah, that looks like railings. Yeah, it looks like park railings, but it's still a crown. And I think the dress is a Union Jack,

but we just can't see it because of the degree of quality of the video file. Yeah, I think so. There's no other explanation. It's a process of elimination. And I know there's already a Scott. So you say, well, we've already had Scott. Well, yeah, but we've already had Hawaii and America. Yeah, and they're different to us anyway, aren't they?

Well, yeah,? Not in 1980. They were perfectly happy. I think that it's supposed to be Britain. That would also explain why she's at the front. Beat that. And the thing is, they're all on podium, so it's got this go-go

element about it, but they seem constrained. They're not free to do the normal shit but again it's like 50 50 isn't it it's go-go ish and yet done in a kind of chase sort of 1950s sort of way it's it's um um yeah it's more stop stop the go-go isn't it but my theory about the last one is that maybe she was going to wear a skimpy hijab, but they got cold feet at the last minute because, you know, 1980, death of a princess and all that. And she had to rummage around the bottom of the Legs & Co dress-up box, which, judging by the skimpiness of the outfits, is about the size of a shoebox.

Had to go down to the local park with a hacksaw. Yes, yes. So the song, ELO, how do we feel about elo oh i used to have a kind of aversion to elo because basically there was a lot of competition around 1980 in fact for um the record player we had like one record player between three boys and like it was competition three-way competition between me wanting to play all kind of joy division suicide whatever um my brother nick wanted to play elo out of the blue over and over and over and then he's probably wanted to play ub40 even when they'd cracked out a bit and so it was just it was just constant war warfare and so ub40 it's a bit

like asking a bloke of a certain age what he thinks of japan or whatever and his views are colored by the war you know obviously about what he thinks of Japan and Japanese. So it is with me and ELO. Taylor? My view of ELO is tainted by the fact that they tortured my granddad. No, it's probably best not to say that. You see, I'm from the West Midlands, and ELO, it's like, along with Slade and Jasper Carrot it's sort of a

it's like what the Beatles are to Liverpool you know you sort of you're expected to like this right you have to you have to feel this local pride I'm from that generation that sort of reacted against that a little bit

they're alright but it's you know you really only need I'm from that generation that sort of reacted against that a little bit. They're all right, but it's, you know, you really only need to hear one song because if you layer that much production on everything you do, ultimately, you know, the surface is identical on every track. Personally, I like this song. I much prefer it to Don't Bring Me Down and Rock and Roll is King. I think, to me, this is probably the last great ELO song. It's certainly better than Xanadu, which got to number one.

They're all right. They're all right. There's nothing wrong with them. You know, I've got nothing bad to say about them beyond that. But they're, like, bland in the truest sense right not in the sense of oh they're bland as in they're you know there's something wretched and feeble about them they're just bland they're just they're bland like chicken korma you know but i mean the thing that gets me is if you're having a party all over the world where do you put all the coats yeah Yeah, imagine trying to get a cab back.

You know, is it fucking... Yeah, come on in. Yeah, Germany, that's the coat room. I'm in Botswana. Can you... Yeah, I know. How long is it going to be then? And if any time anybody mentions a party in pop or rock music,

you think that this event could have done with a bit of a kind of pre-thought from a sort of experienced entertainment secretary, basically. And this is yet another case in point. So, all over the world jumped up to number 11, its highest position.

The third and final track from the Xanadu original soundtrack, Don't Walk Away, only got as far as number 21. And the follow-up to that, Hold On Tight, was their last top five hit. Anything else anyone wants to say about Legs and Comb? Yeah, but they'd have to bleep me out

if I did. I tell you, I'd do time if they could see inside my brain. Legs and Comb is a beautifully intrepid E-L-O and the number 18 sound at the moment in the top 30, Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh It's Mike Berry and the sunshine of your smile. Tommy, who clearly can't be arsed to stand up this episode, introduces Mike Berry. Born Michael Bourne in Northampton in 1942 Mike Berry had his first chart hit in 1961 with a tribute to Buddy Holler which was banned by the BBC for being too morbid

and a number 6 hit in 1963 with Don't You Think It's Time both songs were produced by Joe Meek After a career as a racing driver he returned to music in the 1970s having a few hits in Holland as a rock and roll revivalist and an actor in over 50 adverts which led to him playing the dad in worzel gummage making him the second cast member to have a top 40 hit in 1980 do you remember the other one jeffrey baylden worzel's song by john pertwee got to number 33 in March of this year, which was just the Wurzel Gummidge theme tune.

In 1980, he linked up with Chaz Hodges of Chaz & Dave and recorded this song, which, as Tommy Vance has pointed out, is dead old. It's up from number 37 to number 22. It's straight between the eyes of your grind, isn't it, Taylor? Yeah, and it's not as good as I got them can't get enough of them blue ribbon blues. No it really

isn't. Blue ribbon's the way for biscuit I always choose that was his best work but yeah he looks like one of CI5 that isn't Bodie or Doyle do you know what I mean? Yeah, the one that dies in that episode.

Yeah, he's dazed and hummed. Yeah. He has a brief conversation with them, telling them he's had enough and he's getting out soon. Yeah, yeah. And then a great... This is the first radio ad you can smell. The new Cinnabon Pull Apart, only at Wendy's.

It's ooey,ey gooey and just five bucks with a small coffee all day long taxes extra at participating wendy's until may 5th terms and conditions apply greek terrorist just takes him out he he also looks like an early adopter of lager do you know what i'm Yes. Like all his mates are still just going to the pub and just order a pint. Just say a pint. And you get a pint of bitter. Yeah.

He's very much into lager in a slightly taller glass. But I remember watching this at some in the living room. It was one of my rare excursions down to the living room to watch Top of the Pops. And the bit where he talks to the audience during the song, my mum was there, and she just went, ah, he can't believe he's on Top of the Pops. And the bit where he talks to the audience during the song, my mum was there and she just went, ah, he can't believe he's on Top of the Pops. He's like shocked that he's there

and he's got this far in his singing career. He's wearing a standard CNA suit with an open shirt, but it's not too open. I mean, the kind of like the couple of years ago, probably be right down to the navel. But, you know, we're moving away from that disco period aren't we here but yeah he's not he's not using sex to sell the product he's uh no he he's he's aspiring to be what at the time was known as dishy right you know that yes male attractiveness that is not overtly sexual or macho, dishy. But, you know, 1913, you know, this song was written in 1913.

Well, I mean, there would have been people sitting in living rooms, probably thousands upon thousands of people sitting in living rooms, sitting watching Top of the Pops, because the telly was always on unless it was a power cut. So they're sitting watching it, thousands upon thousands of people with memories in their childhood of the Edwardian age. And actually, Top of the Pops did have that kind of,

for a long time it did appeal right across the generations. And it was very conscious of doing so. And it was very much an active part of the pop market, was people of that age. And that would probably have obtained right up until the early 80s I have to say that the advert that stands out for me, the one that he did was one for

I think it was Thompson Holidays where he's just sitting in his chalet and he's got really his hands and legs and even his toe extends and that freaked me out as a kid, kid you remember that one yeah he's sitting in this wicker chair and he's not moving anywhere and he's wearing double denim

and he's uh i remember his arm extends about 20 feet to rub sun cream into his wife's back at least i think it was his raw wife it might not have been he might have just been a an extendable molester but yeah anything else anything else to say about this song it is proper radio 2 nonsense isn't it or radio 2 as it was in 1980 i think we've deconstructed every last possible atom of it so the single would jump up to number 13 the next week and eventually made it to number nine. The follow-up, If Only I Could Make You Care, only got to number 37. However, he would go on to replace Mr. Lucas

in Are You Being Served? and would dominate the final ever episode when his character Bert Spooner lands a record deal and gets the entire shop floor to back him on a recording of Chanson d more that goes to prove that you can't keep a good song down that was my barrier number 22 this week in our chart and it's called the sunshine of your smile do you belong to glasgow i'm afraid so there's nothing wrong with glasgow no if the arrows are going up it means it's going up doesn't it and we think so If the arrows are going up it means it's going up doesn't it? I think so. If the arrows are going down it means it's going down? Definitely. Would you like to know what's in the chart? Yeah.

Okay stick around because here it comes. At number 30 this week we have You Gotta Be A Hustler by Sue Wilkinson. Then at number 29 Sleepwalk a new entry for Ultravox. At number 28 The Yellow Magic Orchestra. At 27 a new entry Can't Stop The Music Village People. At 26 Neon Nights by the Black Sabbath. At 25, Me, Myself, I by Joan Armatrading. At number 24, Private Life, On in a Minute by Grace Jones. At number 23, We Have the Undertones. At number 22, The Sunshine of Your Smile by Mike Berry.

At number 21, We've Got Darts. At 20, ONJ and ELO. At number 19, we've got Now They're There, My Dear, by Dexys. At 18, This Week, All Over the World by ELO. At number 19, we've got Now They're There, My Dear by Dexys. At 18, This Week, All Over the World by ELO. At number 17, Are You Gettin' Enough? Hot Chocolate. At number 16, Feels Like I'm in Love, up 13 places, Kelly Marie. At 15, Bad Manners.

At number 14, Could You Be Loved by Bob Marley. At number 13, Tom Park, up 13 places by the Piranhas. Babushka, Cape Bush at 12. And at number 11, we have Mariana, up three positions by the Gibson Brothers.. Babushka, Cape Bush at 12. And at number 11, we have Mariana, up three positions by the Gibson Brothers. And on camera three, we've got Roger Dautry. He does go on.

Anyway, time for a whole song now with a lady here for her first time live. Grace Jones with a pretender song, Private Life. Tommy manages to sit up and patronises the fuck out of a girl from Glasgow as he explains the new graphics on the chart rundown. Yeah, it's, you know, the arrows are pointing up. That means it's going up, right? The thing is, right, even though he's younger than Savile, it's almost more disturbing when he tries to interact with the kids. Because with Savile, despite the fact that we now know he was a wrong-hand, he seems to have the mind of a child, right?

Whereas Tommy Vance is an adult. He's obviously, albeit an adult in tight jeans and plimsolls, but he's an adult and it doesn't feel right. It seems, even though we know that he's clean, although clean in that respect, not clean in every respect, I happen to have seen an internal BBC disciplinary memo from 1970 when he's in a spot of bother for how he's spoken to the commissioner on the front gate, when told that there was no room for him to park his car in the BBC car park.

This is when he was the host of Disco 2, which apparently he thought entitled him to a car parking space. There was probably an Apollo mission at the time or something, but no, it's just, yeah. And apparently he used such foul and offensive language that the man was in tears. Fucking hell.

We're talking a 1970s commissioner. Yeah. I think he must've used words. He'd probably been in a war and everything. These are words that have never been heard before or since. So, yeah, he had his hard side, you know, as you'd expect, from a rock warrior. But, yeah, having him in the room just feels a bit, I don't know.

He's like a maths teacher trying to explain equations or something to a very thick child. Yeah, but a maths teacher you wouldn't have fucked with. No. No. Someone who was really good with throwing a board rubber. But, yes, in a male environment, you know, the world of hard rock and all the maleness,

the attendant maleness that comes with that, in which women are a slightly of, slightly kind of, mysterious siren force over the kind of waters of incomprehension. Bless them. Yeah. And he introduces Grace Jones. Born in Spanish town, Jamaica, Grace Jones moved to New York at 13, eventually became a model, moved to Paris in 1970 and was signed by Island Records in 1977 as a disco artist in 1980 she moved away from disco

like many other people did and recorded the LP Warm Leatherette with Sly and Robert this is the third release in a mere three months from that LP and the first single from that album to make the charts and as Roger Daltrey points out it's a cover of a Pretenders song off their debut album and it's up from number 25 to 24 I've got to say the first thing I noticed about this is that the kids in the audience

look really fucking intimidated at first don't they apart from one there's one white lad in a knitted tan with a bobble and a white vest and he's skanking away like a good one yeah no sorry also but also it's a super anglo-saxon top of the pops audience and you know they can bop around but as soon as the track comes on it's actually got a kind of a wicked complex invasive rhythm There's no idea what to do. No, absolutely no idea.

If they can't do some variant of the skinhead stomp, they're just, they're lost completely. You know, also, obviously, clearly the way that she presents, I mean, obviously she's bringing that kind of hauteur that comes from, you know, working as a kind of model or whatever, you know, to pop, you know, and that's part of what she does. But it does look incredibly sort of, I mean, you know, the kind of, the sort of figure that she cuts, I mean,

it's something that would actually be too scary in 2017. It almost belongs to the year 2047. It's almost like anticipating a sort of evolution of life, the kind of way women can present in pop. You know, in 1980, it's almost like a kind of, you know, it's a glimpse of several decades hence. And it's almost like now that wouldn't, that just, you know, that it's something that's dated, you know,

in a sense dated insofar as we're kind of behind those times now, as it were, or behind that kind of level of like sophistication, which represents it's, well, yeah, it's, it's supreme as that. And it's, it's, I mean, in the slide, Robbie Sand there, I mean, it's just stands absolutely pristine. Now it's like crap book and And it's, I mean, in the slide, Robbie Sand there, I mean, it just stands absolutely pristine. It's like crap book and things like that.

You know, the nuts and bolts of it and the surfaces of it. You know, they're absolutely immaculate to this day. They're not aged. Yeah,

and I'd never heard the original version by the Pretenders and I listened to it before this. And it's all right, but it does sound like a cover version

of Private Life by Grace Jones. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. she fucking owns that song. And Chrissie Hines, you know, Private Life by Grace Jones. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, she fucking owns that song. And Chrissie Hines, you know, was completely upfront about it and said, yeah, that's the definitive version.

And, of course, the other shocking thing about it is she's got a fag on her on stage. Yeah, 10 quid. 10 quid says that's no Super King. Yeah, definitely, yeah. It's probably a Sobrani,i isn't it or something like that yeah this was the days when it was sophisticated to have a fag on the go yeah it's it's yeah and it she but she doesn't she doesn't puff on it no any point no that yeah or tap tap the tap the ash

into the palm of her other hand. So the song is obviously about one of Grace's mates kicking off about lads and how they're a letdown and she's not having it, is she? Grace Jones in 1980 would have fucking hated Facebook, wouldn't she? It's ironic, I suppose. I always think that there were two figures that year that emerged around 1980.

One was Grace Jones, one was Sheena Easton. Yes. And Sheena Easton was almost like the other end of the sort of universe in terms of pop and feminism, whatever. However, Sheena Easton did go on to make a fortune. She made loads of money in property and property development and became kind of, you know, by the late of the 80s, you know, she was worth millions and millions.

You know, my baby takes them. Whereas Grace Jones, all of the kind of power that she summons on stage or whatever, by that point she was bankrupt. Yeah, shocking, isn't it? Different forms of empowerment, I suppose. Sheena Easton made a fortune from property, is that true?

She's one of these people, yeah, just invested what she got very well, yeah, and just bought loads of stuff in LA, they're like John Lydon you know so that's like come inside my sugar walls yes like I said

the audience just clearly don't know what to do to this song he's just I mean because you know reggae and all that kind of stuff it's already been around

but this is a this is like a new era isn't it it's bizarre the way that top of the pops takes things like this in their stride or whatever and after work it's two minutes and then swiftly sort of dispatch ridden on to the next thing and there's that strange comment from john tommy vans at the end says something like i should have heard that song features some of the best reggae

musicians around like like paul nicholas and he's reggae like it used to be i like the video where you know the video where at the start she's got a mask of her own face and then she takes it off but of course yeah that's fucking terrifying isn't it what unable to do with the uh special effects of the time but would have been brilliant as if she just kept taking off more and more faces yes till eventually there's just a neck bone in a hood. Yes, yes. That would be amazing but they couldn't do it.

So the single would only jump up one place the following week and peaked at number 17. The follow-up Pull Up To The Bumper would only make it

to number 53 in June of 1981 because British people are thick cunts but would be re-released in 1986 and get to number 12. I fucking love that song.

The following year, she lamped Russell Harty on his chat show for turning his back on her. According to her autobiography, she'd just done some bad coke and a pigeon had shit on her outfit on the way in. By the end of it, she hallucinated that Russell Harty's face had changed into that of her abusive step-grandfather. Yeah, no comment on that. That lady is as cool as

both the poles on our planet. Grace Jones at number 24 this week in our top 30 and it's called Private Life. And incidentally, the record features some of the finest reggae musicians in Jamaica. Can't get me words out. She's a bad lady, isn't she? She is, isn't she? You know the sort of singers you like, like David Bowie,

and you like rock, obviously, but what about disco? I can see you buffing a lot. Can't stand it. Oh, it's terrible. It's a terrible shame, Rog, because here come the British people and can't stop the music. Watch your backs. Tommy Vance describes Grace Jones as cooler.

Sorry, as... As cool as both the poles on our planet. Yes. He should go to Poland. There's millions of them. Yes. Sorry. he should go to Poland there's millions of them yes

and then Tommy brings up the subject of disco to Roger Daltrey who reacts very badly yeah this kind of undoes all that good work that he did in the David Bowie section he did yeah but he did describe he did describe Grace Jones as a bad lady.

Yeah, it's a shame we don't see him standing next to her. But maybe because she was smoking in front of the kids. I think when he said bad, he kind of meant good as well in a funny kind of way. In a rock and roll way. In a run DMC kind of way.

Oh, she'd fucking eat you alive, Roger. Shut your mouth. It's difficult not to hear Roger's blanket condemnation of disco as being somehow linked to his pro-Brexit remarks

of recent years. It comes from the same part of his brain somehow. You know what I mean? What did he say there? He said that we had all these great bands and everything and then Ted Heath in the EU ruined it all well not quite he said basically he doesn't quite understand the difference

between correlation and causation he said anyone who's worried about leaving Europe look back at the 60s it was all great we had all these great bands like the Who all going all around the world all the fashion and all great we had all these great bands like the who uh all going all around the world all the fashion and all the and we weren't part of europe then it and then it all went to shit in the 70s it's like roger it's as if he saw somebody throwing a stone and then a

moment later saw somebody else rubbing their head therefore yeah it's but it's yeah you can't help but feel it comes from the same sort of quite small part of his brain uh that is closed the door on disco and indeed the same small part of his brain that he then puts into gear with a the notorious bit that people who've only seen this episode on the bbc repeats will not be aware of. Yeah, Tommy introduces the village people and Roger says, watch your backs. I mean, to be fair to him, he's just come out of prison. You know, there's a lot of that sort of thing goes on in the showers,

apparently, if you watch lots of prison films. So the village people formed in new york in 1977 through an advert in a music paper which read macho types wanted must dance and have a mustache the village people sold 1.5 million copies of ymca in the uk in 1978 and followed it up with in the navy which got stuck in the number two slot for now this This is their first release in a year, the follow-up to Go West, because they've been spending time making the film Can't Stop The Music. It's gone up from number 64 to number 27. David, do you remember the Watch Your Backs reference?

Yeah, and I mean, I don't remember the Watch Your Backs, and I only saw that subsequently in some retro clip but no it didn't register at the time I was probably just about aware at this time that the gayness of the village people but I have to say

that it was like an awful lot of people like the US Navy for instance I think they operate it was extraordinary I think they operate... It was extraordinary. I think people were absolutely naive about what gayness meant, visually or whatever.

And in this country, we're still oog-ducky and shut that door and honky-tonk, how are you? And I think that the vast majority of people would actually, you know, adults or whatever, it didn't have to be kids or whatever, would look to the Finnish people

and thought, here is a kind of, yes, a cross-section of American maleness. And obviously dancing to that particular popular music moment, disco. Look, everyone dances to disco, doesn't there? Everyone dances to disco, and like men, I'm sure the men have got to win a living for their wives and families and their families and their children. They would naturally be um participating in this as male musicians and um yes and why not as a gimmick represent the um the gamut of maleness and these various uh types and forms i mean it just didn't didn't just didn't it was just

absolutely zero recognition of the sort of subculture of games and what it represents i mean we just didn't encounter this or recognise it or what it was. It's extraordinary, really. I believe it had already gone round the playground by this time that village people were gay because someone read it in a paper, even though only one of them was gay, the Native American one.

But when did you find out that the village people were gay? Well, about five minutes ago. Yeah, probably about this time. I didn't really devote a great deal of thought. I was too busy being intense about joy division and suicide and all that kind of thing, and didn't

devote as much thought to the village people as I should have done. But no, I was probably, when I started reading the music press, I was kind of thing, and didn't devote as much thought to the British people as they should have done. But when I started reading the music press, I was kind of conscious of their gayness, and that was probably an issue that as a northern lad or whatever, I was processed at a fairly leisurely pace.

what's extraordinary about that, obviously it's a time in which homophobia was so rife that people didn't even recognise what it was or whatever, that people could operate in... That's the hilarity of the British people, that they could just operate in plain sight in the kind of absolute sort of middle-of-the-pop mainstream, in the absolute centre of the pop arena, and be that, do that, whatever.

And it's just like, it's the equivalent of the 19th century when Oscar Wilde calls a play called The Importance of Being Earnest, you know, and a lot of people didn't understand that earnest was a kind of was coined for gay, it was very earnest, was like at that time it was gay, so calling a play The Importance of Being

Earnest is just having this wonderful wonderful snook, you know an establishment that has no idea about homosexuality and where he comes from etc etc it's glorious that you have this kind of period in which they could do that and then in the 80s there's a massive

there's so many and there's still opposite then there's immense homophobia and it's ironic that once homophobia is banished from supposedly from society at an institutional level at least or whatever, when the Tories have a float at like, you know, gay pride or whatever, when it's supposedly been eliminated in terms of, you know, institutions, that prejudice is supposedly eliminated, where's the gay now? Pop is suddenly very, very hetero

and like, you know, it seems that it is ironic that like, you know that there was so much kind of gay in pop in times of institutional homophobia or whatever, widespread homophobia. And now that that supposedly kind of subsided or whatever or been banished to the margins and is now unmentionable, similarly, there doesn't seem to be a kind of overtly gay presence anymore in pop. I've never seen that happen. Well, the gay now is on primetime itv every night right the the that that camp aesthetic has now been uh absorbed into the mainstream in such a way that it's that it's

it's no longer funny or flamboyant or well you know not like it used to be right it's a it's kind of a mainstream thing, and it's a shame because it kind of, rather than operating as a sort of a mockery or a burlesque of the seriousness of mainstream culture, it's now just replaced the seriousness of mainstream culture, which I don't think was ever the original idea. Have you ever seen the film Can't Stop the Music, of which this is the theme song?

Yeah, it's a hard watch. I sort of thought it was going to be great. I thought it was going to be a hilarious camp extravaganza. Yeah, and it sort of is, but the defining feature of that film is not camp, it's cocaine. It's too cokie, much,'s too cokie much much too cokie it's like your fifth line of really shit

coke and you half expect your head to light up like a Christmas tree but what actually happens is your brain turns into scrambled eggs and it's just your internal weariness is stronger than any superficial spurious energy trying to get through

the end of that film is impossible yeah it's a lot like that as well so you've got these two really fucking shit overblown films out at the same time and they're and they're leaving their taint on the uh on the what's his name on the charts yeah it's a wash of smeared color and muddy sounding music and steve gutenberg on roller skates yes and uh the other thing is nobody in the film is starting to think about making some serious life choices it's the the the village people problem was that they were trying to bring their film out when no one gave a toss about the village people anymore exactly this film came out on the same day as the blues brothers right no no this is gone this is this is the 80s now it's uh you know yeah but they were ready for it remember yeah well they thought they were

anyway the other thing if you watch that film it's supposed to be about the village people's formation and rise to fame. But it's set in the year that it came out because people keep going. It's the eighties now. It's the eighties. This is all going to be different. And it's like, why are you putting together a disco group in the eighties then? And it's like,

they're living in a universe where the village people haven't previously existed, but are forming in 1980. Well, the same thing would have happened to them uh as happened to that film so how old are we how old are you here tell you about what eight nine yeah i was about eight this was just what do the village people mean to you uh wedding disco what you know wedding reception disco it's like yeah that was about it it was um probably what it meant to the kids from the emu's pink windmill show when they did their version of this song which uh yes is available on youtube and that should be called please stop the music nobody in that film is actually gay

as well like not just the village people but all the other uh everyone is heterosexual everyone is flirting with women and as a foxy lady and stuff yeah despite the fact that it it's the most overtly gay film that's not counting pornography that's ever been made there's something really upsetting and disappointing about that. You know what I mean? They felt that they had to put that in. Can't Stop the Music moved up six places to number 21 and eventually got to number 11. It was their last top 40 hit until a re-release of YMCA in 1993. After their new romantic influence,

the next attempt to break the charts in 1985 stalled when the BBC banned sex over the phone. I remember that, which is strange. Yeah, just despite it's, yeah, it was actually a very heterosexual video, in fact, was that? Yes, it was, yes. Perhaps that's why they banned it, because by that point, being straight was a crime, you see.

Yes. You can't stop the music. You can't stop the music. I haven't got the clash, but I've got some lovely birds on this show. And here's a really lovely one with a cleaned up version of You've Got To Be A Hustler, if you want to get on. Sue Wilkinson. I remember Sally from number four. She always had boys queuing up at her door.

Roger is still moaning about the clash, when everyone knows that the fucking clash don't do top of the pops, but is once again distracted by the crumpet as he introduces Sue Wilkinson. Sue Wilkinson spent the 70s as a songwriter who was signed up by Chas Chandler, former manager of Jimi Hendrix and Slade, and recorded a song called You've Got To Be A Scrubber If You Want To Get On. She was informed by Doreen Davis, the executive producer of Radio 1, that the record might get some airplay if she changed the title, took out the words bitch and hooker, changed Now She's Mix with the queen to mixing with the cream,

and changing the chorus which went, the only women making it are women who are taking it and faking it while lying in the sack, on their back, in the sack. It was then picked up and played to death by Kenny Everett and Dave Lee Travis, and it's up this week from number 40 to number 30. This song's fucking mental, isn't it?

Yeah, I've never heard it before. to number 30. This song's fucking mental, isn't it? Yeah. I've never heard it before. And I thought it was really fabulous. I thought it was great, actually. I mean, he had... Obviously, around this time, there was probably a conflation of, like, sort of novelty singles

by kind of women you'd never heard of that goes from that one that goes naughty, naughty, naughty, with a little... Yes. Or there was Mary Wilson's telephone line. Then, of course, you had Flying Lizards and Money. Telephone Man, yeah.

And you had Laurie Anderson, oh, Superman, nobody had ever really heard of her or whatever. Yeah. And I imagine that people just sort of, you know, sort of bewildered by these things that kind of occasionally pass through and might inadvertently have lumped this in

more of the kind of naughty, naughty end, whereas I think it's definitely the Laurie Anderson end really I mean it's almost like a bit like Robert Ashley or something like that these kind of like 20th century operas and stuff and yeah it's I don't know it's extraordinary actually it's probably the thing I'd listen to it's not got the absolute in a way

it's something like Oh Superman is very sort of nagging and insistent and you know there's actually this is actually in a way it's more involved in a sense, really, than that. It's probably not as successful as a piece of pop music because it's not got that kind of simple sort of pulsating,

nagging sort of thing that occupies your mind in a sense. But it's a fascinating little anomaly in pop history, actually. It's a very 80s song, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. But, you know, just in terms of... I mean, this is before

kind of like bonk journalism and checkbook journalism she's fucking nailed it hasn't she it's like a little bit of sort of performance theatre or something like that it's amazing that you slip through that at last the missing link between rock follies and fascinating

Aida no it's alright it's alright it is hard to fascinating aida no it's all right it's all right it's what it is hard to get a handle on it at first because there's not really uh a precedent for it in pop music at least not in not in commercial pop music it makes more sense when you think of it going back to those uh maybe those songs from the 50s right if you If you've heard those sort of light comedy albums that used to come out in the 50s of quite wordy songs, and they'd get in usually a female jazz singer to do it. Yeah.

And there'd be songs about Freudian psychiatry and songs about the space race and stuff, but done in this kind of style, but with a more old-fashioned backing. It's all right. It's the detail that makes it more interesting, though. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, her performance is really strange. Like, she's standing in a really strange way. Yes. There's a stool there, and she's got a knee on one of the knees on the stool isn't she like she's just been like lisa minnelli cabaret kind of thing yeah well like she's just broken her ankle but doesn't yeah and she's got this really weird belted jumpsuit with made out of clouds it's kind of thing prince would have worn around the Love Sexy era, isn't it? Yeah.

And also Don Powell on the drums has got his full kit set up. And he doesn't touch it. It's weird. He's got this sort of foreground drum kit set up and he's just there with a little shaker out of a music class going... Yeah.

That's what gives it a slightly dreamlike quality as well. You know, you don't know which strange woman sings this. And then Don Powell, you know, he was there as well for some reason. It's unexplained, it's mentioned, you know, and I guess it's the Chaz Chandler. Well, yeah, he actually didn't play on the single. Chaz Chandler apparently asked if he could appear on Top of the Pops for some reason, mainly because, I don't know, he was enslaved in 1980 and there wasn't much else going on.

There's also a cable player who looks like Eno if he worked on a play bus. This whole record and the presentation of it has come out of, as we were saying before, that weird late 70s, early 80s interregnum. Yes. I mean, she looks like a friend of Hazel or something like this. You know, there's everything about it, the look. You can't imagine this record any earlier than this or any later than this. Yes.

It's definitely from that that strange uh that strange half and half period and i must say that they they know they operate a sim far better than ultravox were doing earlier just the minimalism just works far better than just layering everything on yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah i tried listening to some of her other stuff. She's a bit of a one-trick pony, it has to be said. Everything else I could find with her was also a one-note feminist satire. So, you know, I mean, fair enough, but yeah, you don't make a career out of it. So the song moved up four places the following week to number 26 and peaked at number 25. Sue Wilkinson later relocated to Nashville for her career as a jingle writer

and passed away in 2005. Yes, you've got to be a hustler if you want to get on. And that's Sue Wilkinson at number 30 this weekend. You've got to be a hustler if you want to get on. How are you going to take her advice, do you think? No, I don't think so. You don't think so. But next time you listen to the song, really listen to it,

because the lyrics are very clever. Did you recognise the drummer? No, I didn't. I'll tell you, it's Don Powell out of Slade. Now I think I can satisfy you. Would you like to know what's in the top ten? Right, yeah. OK, here it is.

At number ten this week, we've got Funkin' for Jamaica. Up six places for Tom Brown. At number nine, Odyssey. Who want to use it up and wear it out? Great singer, Leo Sayer. This week at number eight, More Than I Can Say. Great singer, Leo Sayer, this week at number eight, More Than I Can Say. Up three places to number seven this week, George Benson and Gimme the Night.

Gap Band, great dance record, Oops, Upside Your Head at six. Subtragic. Subtragic. Subtragic. There's a bad way. Man who was on Top of the Pops last week and makes all the ladies go whoo. Roxy Music, Brian Ferry. This week at five and oh yeah.

The sound of my tears. From absolutely nowhere to number four that's Bowie Power. Ashes to Ashes by David Bowie. Hope you're happy too. I've loved all of the needed love. Bowie Power, Ashes to Ashes by David Bowie. Sheena Easton is into the top three at number three this week,

still nine to five. And standing at number two this week, Out the hall again to find me waiting for you And standing at number two this week, Diana Ross, Upside Down. And the number one record in the United Kingdom this week is the same as last week, a beautiful song put together by a great bunch of singers from Sweden. It's ABBA and the winner still takes it all. It's another great Vance link. Are we going to talk about this? Of course we are. Tommy Vance

homes in on a different girl and starts hassling her and it's quite uncomfortable to watch first of all he's given us he's basically saying

are you going to be a slug yeah you're going to take her advice then like as if like she's going to go yep yep

starting right now and also he does that terrible sort of it's like a kind of a mansplaining thing where he says now next time you hear that record listen to the lyrics

because they really are because you obviously won't have paid any attention despite knowing exactly what he meant when he said yeah are you going to take her no listen to the lyrics bitch listen to the fucking lyrics and then do you know who the drummer is yeah she doesn't know that and then he says

now I think I can satisfy you. Oh, yeah, with a chart rundown. Yeah, he thinks he can get anywhere with that baritone voice. It's like, oh, I remember being on a plane once, right, when Virgin started doing planes across the Atlantic. So if you went to America as a music journalist, you were on a virgin plane because they were the cheapest ones right so i was there and they just brought in this new

in-flight entertainment where there were about 20 radio channels of pre-recorded shows that you could listen to so i was flicking through them and there was a rock one with tommy vance hosting it and he played a track off the mic Street Preachers' new album, The Holy Bible. As it faded out at the end, Vance comes in and he goes, great band, that's the Manic Street Preachers from their new album, The Holy Bible. Amen with rock chords.

That doesn't mean anything. That doesn't mean anything. For a start, the Amen Cadence is a rock chord and I'm not even going to there's not even any way to talk about it that makes sense so after the top 10 run down

Tommy Vance points out that ABBA are all very good singers I mean they write songs as well, Tommy you know two of them and he introduces the winner takes it all. The 18th single release. This is the follow-up to I Have A Dream and it's the first single from the new LP Super Trooper.

The big story here is that the singer Agnetha and the co-writer Bjorn have just got divorced and they've done a song about it. Oh those Swedes. And because they're ABBA they're not in the studio so we get the video which was shot in a seaside town in Sweden. This is its second week at number one.

Also, because it's too... At the end of Top of the Pot, even one as adult-orientated as this one, it comes like a jolt. It's like getting a phone call with bad news when you're at the karaoke. Yes. It's like the real adult world suddenly is right there and that's what's so great about this song that it's

it's universal and it's also one of the most pain-filled songs that there's ever been but yeah when it when it suddenly arrives at the end of this, it's like you're pitched back into a world with ageing and death and uncertainty in it. I mean, it's strange, isn't it? I mean, yeah, I mean, on one hand, yeah, ABBA and all of their kind of works are part of the kind of four-micron fittings of pop history and what have you. But I suppose at this stage, they are, it's valedictory.

I mean, there's going to be a sudden cut-off with ABBA. ABBA don't really make it into the 80s because there's this and then they make another album I looked at the track listing of that I didn't recognise

a single one this is possibly their Bergman-esque phase as their sort of last artistic flourish and then of course what's wonderful about ABBA

is that they disband never to reform and I mean that's apart from the Smiths or whatever I don't think it's hard to think

I think even if I count the finger fingers of one hand the number of like actually do that or done that so I can't get more than for that it's it's hard to say about Abra it's a documentary that comes on

every year I think it's called The Meaning of Abra and I'm on it for about 8 or 9 minutes and I think I was on there to play devil's advocate because I once wrote a kind of... All right, David, do you take back anything you said on that documentary? Well, no, exactly. The way it was edited, I think they kind of actually didn't want to kind

of, you know, sort of include some of my more extreme statements. Which were? Well, we hear very little about the Third Reich for instance, but anyway. No, but it's... I don't think I've quite got that far but what we realise is that if you do they are one of these groups that are

actually pretty safe in Canterbury, Glorabra actually you sort of poo-poo them at your peril so I found that I get kind of annual brickbats kind of held at me virtual brickbats you know for even having kind of sort of issued the faintest sort of criticism of that i mean i remember but by this age you know i was i was 12 years old and abba

had always been there it seemed and i'd got a bit bored by them but i mean we had we had greatest hits volume two in our house just like every fucker else did. So it was very familiar with their output. But by this time, it's like, oh, you know, every time an ABBA song came out, it's like, oh, God, please don't be number one. You know, it's just like you've had your time, Nucky. There's sort of uniqueness.

Normally when you sort of talk about, you know, big acts, pop rock acts, the words like they paved paved the way for this, or they rose out of that. And ABBA just seemed to be this kind of vast island, really. They didn't really pave the way for anything at all, really. Nothing really, I mean, you know, music then took a completely different direction. You know, then it stops

and there's no more ABBA after 1981. And the music kind of goes off in an entirely separate direction, whereas obviously when people like Beatles finish, or Zephyr Hendrix finish, you can see their influence pervading in all kinds of ways, or even other pop acts, for example, in Motown. You can see Motown's influence pervading through whatever. ABBA just seems to have this...

They arose out of the Eurovision Song Contest, out of that kind of international sort of schlagerfest. And then when they sort of eventually sort of sank away, it's as if they've never really been around it's a funny kind of word for a group that's so ubiquitous they don't really seem to kind of I mean you know the idea of like ABBA influenced groups I mean doesn't really you know they're in terms of the whole history of pop and rock and whatever and everything that's kind of flowed through they don't really seem to have a great deal to do with it. They just are unto themselves, really.

They were a pretty big influence on Northern European pop, but it's hard to know whether that was a direct influence or whether that's just what your pop music sounds like if you come from the polar night. If you listen to Hunting High and Low by A-ha, it doesn't particularly sound like ABBA, but it's hard to imagine that it could have existed without, say, SOS. If you listen to the first half a minute of SOS, it's like a massive cold front coming in from Scandinavia. It's totally unlike anything that you've heard before in terms of the sound of it.

I mean, this record isn't innovative musically in the same way. But it's an unbelievable song, and this is the thing. Most people just can't write songs as well as this. They were really about the songs and the singing. And if you can't sing as well as that, and you can't write songs as well as that, it's hard to be influenced by ABBA. I mean, one of the things I said in that broadcast actually was that there is a sort of probably inadvertent sense of racial purity about ABBA.

I mean, there's a sort of, not any black members, but there's a lack of blackness about them. I remember when I was kind of really kind of going through a bit, I said, is it any coincidence that they're kind of really popular in a pretty racist country australia and then didn't really break into a kind of like highly eclectic sort of um multicultural society i america um where you know where there's a serious you know the the grovelessness the the sense of fungelessness or whatever the sense of any lack of any particular sort of black element. That was all I said. I think that was only true to begin with. I think by the time you get to Dancing Queen, I mean, the backing is basically Rock Your Baby,

just with more chords in it. And, you know, disco was a big influence on that. They weren't funky, that's for sure. I'm not sure that the spectacle of bearded Nordics being funky would have been all that nourishing. No, no, no, no. I'm not suggesting they turned into Wild Chariot or whatever. No, there was a sort of...

They're interesting, obviously, because, you know, they are sort of glacially highly impressive or whatever, and they clearly got this kind of, you know, ingenious knack and have got this, you know, tremendous legacy. But it is curious how there is something slightly apart about them. They don't feel integrated with the rest of sort of pop rock history. Well, they come from a functional, sane society, which most pop music doesn't.

Most pop music is either British or American. And maybe if we all came from a society as sane and functional as Sweden in that period of history, maybe we would all be at liberty to contemplate our personal lives with such clarity and obsessive attention to detail um we could all be as happy as abba yeah it's funny i remember one trip that made to stockholm and i took a boat trip like i always do and i remember like it was a sunday morning and it felt like i was truly an abba world or whatever you know you look the kind of the men and women sort of along the sides.

It was that kind of sort of, that kind of whiteness, that freshness, that healthiness, that kind of functionality or whatever. And it just felt like sort of sheer essence of ABBA on either bank. I stayed in Benny's hotel once. He's got a hotel in Stockholm. And the waiter there was very keen to spill all the goss. Apparently, Benny is a great guy. Who'd have thought? Very down to earth with the kitchen staff and everything.

Exactly as you predicted. Bjorn, a bit sniffy, a bit, you know, maybe thinks he's above an ordinary bloke working in the kitchen, waiting at the tables. Yeah. I'm not going to go on because I like it but yeah do you remember when Benny's beard, the fact that he

had one, made him a figure of fun those were better times yes absolutely I agree with that for want of a better word it's such a miserable song isn't it this but it's specifically specifically adult in the sense that most songs about uh end of a relationship if they're sung by someone who's 24 basically yeah end of a relationship okay that's

pretty sad but then two weeks later you can go on a spree, right? Yes. Where it's like, this is a song by people in, I guess they were pushing 40 at the time, because they weren't young when they started, Abba. Exactly, yeah. And it's like, this is a song by someone who's just finished a relationship, and it might be eight months before they have sex again. You know what I mean? Or it might be 12 months before they trust anyone again.

It's all that horrible adult baggage, which usually doesn't exist in pop music, you know. Usually it's you go your way and I'll go mine. That's what's slightly disturbing about it. Well, if

the women had sought out John the Vicar at that point, then he wouldn't have meant to help them out. So, the single will be knocked off the top spot the following week by Ashes to Ashes, but the follow-up Super Trooper will be ABBA's ninth and final number one,

and they split up in 1983. This has been voted the UK's favourite ABBA song by viewers of ITV and Channel 5 on two separate occasions. Don't know what the viewers of the Dave channel would vote as their favourite, but, you know, just as well we don't know what the viewers of the Dave channel would vote as their favourite but you know just as well we don't know really

isn't it. I love that record even though it's a really really sad song. It's number one at the moment it's ABBA and the winner

takes it all. And I'm Roger Wakeup. When are we going to see The Who on the stage in the United Kingdom? The Who?

The Who? Never mind The Who mate. What about The Clash? No seriously when are you going to hit the stages? Oh December. Good one. About December. Might be in the charts in the United Kingdom. The who? The who? Never mind the who, mate. What about The Clash? No, seriously, when are you going to hit the stages? Oh, December. Good one.

Back December. Might be in The Chance next week, your record. I should be so lucky. I hope so. Good night, everybody. From all of us on Top of the Pops. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Upside Down, Diana Ross. The 19th solo single to make the UK charts since she went solo in 1970. And the first cut from the LP Diana, overseen by Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards, although she remixed the entire album behind their back. Because of the subsequent row between the four of them, well, Rodgers,wards ross and motan the lp was on sale for a month before a single was released from it and when it was it went to number one in america over here it's his second week at number two i mean in the last chart music we gushed about um chic and their work with sister sledge and now they're working with someone

who's a bit less malleable clearly yeah it's a strange one really because to be honest it's doubtful they have the argument really i mean anything that at that point that diana ross sort of lent a voice to was gonna be a hit and anything that she did was gonna be a hit it didn't really matter really in some ways what they do what they do with it i mean the argument between chic Sheik and Diana Ross about the remixing, apparently a DJ in New York told Diana Ross that it was too disco-et and disco had kind of like had its day,

so it needed a remix. Yeah, it's sad, really. I suppose it's going forward, really. But it was sad looking at it. There was that Nile Rodgers documentary years ago and how intimidated and how affected they were by that whole disco sucks movement but it was probably about a couple of years later but but but really how when they're

making this music you just think you know this is such a kind of commercially accepted just such a sort of wonderful joyful thing but they're also flying in the face of this real antipathy there's growing activity towards disco music that to an extent, you know, is even being internalised by people like Diana Ross and people saying, oh no, it's only a short-lived medium, you know, be very careful here.

And it's not, it's an eternal medium. It's, but they have to fight in the face of that. And actually, when disco sucks thing, it wasn't just a sort of last stupid white man eruption sort of thing. It did have a genuine commercial effect, you know, on them. And they actually had to kind of change attack as a result,

which is kind of sad, really, that the word, A, that disco should have been seen as ephemeral rather than just something that's here for good, and that ephemeral disposal or whatever, and that it should have just raised the hackles that it did. It's just, you know, I just find it really sad. The only way Diana Ross gets away with it is that she happens to have some of the most talented people

in the world making this record. And it doesn't matter whether it's a disco record or what it is or what the year is. It's just so good that it doesn't matter. But people lack that kind of foresight. I mean, in a sense, yeah, disco did suffer a dip. But people assume, well, that's the end of disco, and it wasn't. It's just the initial temporary

decline that things go into, you know, in pop-sci or whatever, before they kind of rise again and are sort of more established permanently in the firm. And, you know, I think that's how it is with things like Sheep, you know, for instance, you know, Village People have got kind of, you know, they're with us

for the rest of time as well. You know, it's... But people didn't think like that, and people just thought that, like, you know, village people have got kind of, you know, they're with us for the rest of time as well. You know, but people didn't think like that. And people just thought that, like, you'd have these femoral disposable forms and that they'd be sort of, you know, buried by, you know, what comes along next and completely forgotten about. It was hard then at that point for people to realise the sort of... Yeah. Just how there were really, you know, it wasn't just a case of, like,

you know, this week's fab, next week's craze or whatever, that, you know, they really were kind of making history, the history they've been living. Now, we're almost like past the end of pop history really now, but at that point, you know, things are sort of being kind of constructed and put together that are just with us forever. Yeah. So the song dropped down to number five the following week

and the follow-up, My Old Piano, dropped down to number five the following week and the follow-up my old piano made it to number five in september and that pretty much closes the book on this episode of top of the pops so what's on tv afterwards well on bbc one immediately after this is a clip show edition of taxi followed by foggy visiting a lady friend in Wales in Last of the Summer Wine. And BBC One finishes off with an episode of All About Books, where Russell Harty interviews the great author Emlyn Hughes about his autobiographic Crazy Horse. This has been a very Russell Harty heavy episode. It really has. On BBC Two, there's a documentary about the 1978

I Love Man double bass competition and an episode of Call My Bluff with Frank Muir, Timbrook Taylor, Gemma Craven and... Russell Hartett. Oh, no. Seriously. Dive. On ITV, Ray Gosling pisses about in the Pennines

on this England there's a repeat of Edward and Mrs Simpson and then a repeat of the prime of Miss Jean Brodie and late night wrestling with Kendo Nagasaki versus Russell Hartig no I made that one up sorry so what are we talking about in the playground tomorrow

how does Roger Daltrey come off this because at the end they talk about his single and I think Tommy speculates that we might see it in a future episode of Top of the Pops and Roger basically says no mate even he knows it's dog shit I think to be honest he comes across as such a silly old fool that he barely merits consideration actually

in the playground the next day I think conversations like to be swamped by ashes to ashes obviously but you'd hope that there'll be a little bit of... Because that would be the first time we'd seen that video, wouldn't it? Definitely, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There'd have been a bit of consternation

about Grace Jones, really, you know. But then for me seeing it now, it's that Ashton Wilkinson thing that takes me by surprise because it didn't register with me at the time, you know, I'd have not seen it. But, I mean, I think that, you know, for me, the most powerful thing in that

isn't Ashley's Twice, it's Grace Jones. Yes. Taylor? Sorry, my cat's just come in, demanding food. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I don't know, I'll tell you what, though. The kids in the audience weren't waiting for the playground the next day. They're yappering, yappering on and on all the way through.

Diana Ross is singing her heart out on the soundtrack. It's just shattering. And halfway through, they fade them out, and it's just the record. And thank God for that. Also, I noticed on the credits, there's a bloke called Nicholas Rocker. I think his costume or one of these things. Nicholas Rocker. Nick Rocker, surely.

Why wouldn't you be Nick Rocker? Perhaps it's an amusing pun about not having any knickers, you see. Nicholas Rocker. Oh, Nicholas Rocker. There you see. Wow. Yeah. I might have missed a trick there.

I reckon that Tommy would have heard that one. I mean, this little dog whistle thing. So what are we buying on Saturday then? Private Life. Bowie and Grace Jones, yeah. And I'd probably bung in the Sue Wilson, actually.

Cool, get you. And what does this episode tell us about August of 1980? Well, I mean, I think I'm probably a little bit older than you guys, whatever. But I think that Taylor summed it up well. It's weird. It's this slight kind of sort of quite sort of fertile time, really, and all kinds of interesting things happen.

But there's a type of complete uncertainty. You know, it's also like government-wise, I mean, Labour's finished, but the Tories haven't really got started yet, and no one really is aware. Nobody's coined the word Thatcherism yet. Nobody is really aware of what is about to be brought. I mean, obviously up in the North it's beginning to happen, but it's not culturally sunk in yet, the kind of transformation,

because the 70s and the 80s are you know very sharply differentiated decades but at this point there's there's still a lot of shadow from the 70s being cast you know and the 80s are only just beginning to kind of grind into action in lots of ways and also this is the point politically where um there's this sort of myth has developed that the country was in terrible economic decline all through the 70s. And then Thatcher came in and it suddenly turned around. This is complete nonsense. The decline continued for years.

The only thing was it was a perfect continuation of the slide, except now it was, you know, it was harder to get a job and harder not to get sacked and so on. So everything was just objectively worse than it had been. And this was a period where she was the least popular prime minister since records began and heading to be out on her arse in a couple of years if history had travelled in a slightly different path. So, I think we're pretty much done with this episode. Let me just go through the usual bullshit that you have to do when you do a podcast.

We're on www.chart-music.co.uk. You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash chartmusicpodcast. And my God, we've even got a Twitter account chart music TOTP Thank you very much for listening but most importantly thank you very much to David Stubbs

Thank you very much Taylor Parks This has been Chart Music, my name's Arne Edam and I am cooler than both the poles on our planet. Shark music. Now, while you're inside here, you're going to have to learn a whole new language. It's not French, it's prison slang, and I've got some of it written here, so it might help you. Howard's arse means prison.

One nil at half-time means food. Woggy coconuts means air bricks. Gazza is a gas coin used as currency for cigarettes. Plank Sanction, a one-for-one fag exchange. Sue My Chin, give us a fag, I'll give you two next week. Buff My Pylon, give us a fag, you owe me two, so I'm letting you off the other one. Don't Buff My Pylon, switch over the telly, and very, very important, this one. Portillo means... Watch your backs.