Chilluminati Podcast - Episode 293: The Mysterious Case of Sandile Sibiya and Teteteke Gqontsi

Episode Date: April 6, 2025

This week, Jesse brings Mike, Alex and all of you along on a murder mystery rabbit hole he got lost in. MOFFMIN PLUSH MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati Thank you too - All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD Green Chef - http://www.greenchef.com/chillfree PROMO CODE: chillfree Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro SOURCES https://mg.co.za/article/2019-05-30-00-patient-found-dead-in-hospital-ceiling-durban-mystery/ https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/hospital-fails-to-give-family-closure-on-body-in-ceiling-11766160

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Chiluminati Podcast episode 293. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Mike Martin. Joined today by the Haas and Tog of LA, Alex and Jesse. What about the Haas and Pfeffer? Haas and Tog, man. I know those guys. Good old Haas and Tog. You know, it's cowboy and an ogre.

One of them is a rodeo rider. The other one is a 14 foot tall ogre who lives in the hills behind his ranch and they get, and yeah, and they get up to stuff. Let me tell you. Sometimes Haas rides talk. Anyway, I'm Todd Jesse's Haas. And that's the end of it. We figured out who those guys were already. Well, all right. Yeah. Sometimes you ride into town. I'm on your shoulders. I'm like, hello, ma'am. Everybody's like, hi, talk. They're actually a Swedish duo, uh, from the fifties, sixties and seventies that are often said, kind of reminiscent of Monty Python. Oh, great. But like the Swedish version of them. Right. But, and also a duo. Yeah. But a duo. And just famously the famously wacky Swedes. Yeah, they had shit man

One two, three, four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen forty fifty sixty seventy eighty ninety twenty one two to delete 25 different mixes of TVs and movies under their name Mixes, what does that mean? We're TV shows some were some more movies. You're saying like they have like 25 credits. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 25 credits is a better way of putting that in more professional. Don't look up how many credits Timothy Chalamet has. Just don't. Too many, right? More than 25. Let's put it that way. Okay. That's fair. That's fair.

He was in a lot of stuff as a kid that I did not know. Yeah. Dude, do you see the like law and order like drinking game thing where it was like drink if you were in law and order and he was like, there is, I'm a kid. Here's what's up. I'm the ogre. Jesse's the cowboy. Do the Shulman podcast. That's a good place to be as an ogre.

Well, right. Shoot with my heart, not with my hand, man. And I like mud. That's right. Before before we end this over, I just want to say I have been having fucking alien abduction nightmares. So awesome. Fucking often after like even to like last night. And they're not enjoyable.

I don't have fun. I'm scared. And every single one of them, you should check all your bedside drawers because in one of them, there's a monkey's paw that's curling shut as we say different every time, but the end the same way where I get hit by like a beam of light and I can feel my body like curling into the fetal position without me wanting to do it. And in my head I'm like, Oh no, no, no, no. It's about to happen. And then I go to black and then I wake up. Like I know I'm being forced like into like a fetal, but when I'm being like,

I'm assuming like my brain's like you're being abducted and now you're being forced to go to sleep. And then as soon as I go to sleep, I wake up. And the first night it happened, I woke up nearly. And I mean this truly hyperventilating. I woke Jess up. I was just like, were you excited? Hyperventilating or scared? I was terrified. I was so scared. I was just the, it's, I'm so sick of the nightmares. I'd like them to be done. Rendlesham is over. I don't want to dream about scary alien abductions anymore.

Can I share with you a dream that is, that both of you were in? Yes. This happened to me literally last night. We were at a restaurant. I'm not sure what it was. I think it was a hot pot place. I don't know. There was soup. There was soup was involved. I can't explain it.

There was soup involved. That sounds already like a dream on its own. Right. And so we're sitting there, we're eating soup and across from us kind of diagonal is this group of women. And the entire time I'm staring at them because you know, there's a group of women. It's your dream, you're allowed. Yeah, I'm allowed to. And so, uh, eventually we're having a conversation. They get up, they come over and this one girl hands me a note. And, and, and she walks away and I'm like, look at you too. And I'm like, yeah, see all guys still got it.

I opened the note and inside is a bunch of crude drawings of the girls who were at the table. I'm like, what does this mean? Well, the girl apparently just didn't walk away. She just stood there. Is Deadpool like in his dream somewhere in secret? Out of focus just in the background. She just stood there and she was like, she's like, you know, we thought you were cute and we just want to know if you want to date one of us. I'm like, one of you.

And she's like, yeah, there's me. There's the girl with the blue hair. There's the girl with the black hair. You can just pick whichever one you want. And I literally wanted to date you. I literally looked at the both of you and I go, what? And she's like, you can just pick one of us. I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like, you can just pick one of us. I'm like, what do you mean?

And she's like, you know, today I'm like, I don't think I want to do that. The two of you looked at me and you're like, come on. I'm like, no. Me and Alex were like, do it, dude. You're like, do it. You like refuse the gamers like test. Like, like the eye of Mara.

I was like, this seems too easy. Where is this? There has to be a catch to this is too easy 40 days in the desert and that's what Satan brings the gamers bro middle school boys like we're like the tree like when he when you pass this you were like a scent and then you can like have as many many figs as you want or something I was just like you guys guys, like, come on, dude, do it. Pick one. And I was like, this, is this a trap? What is happening? Women are people.

Because again, on the piece of paper was crude drawings of these men by the women. Women are people, not crude images. They drew themselves and they wanted you to like circle one. And they're just like, which one? Meanwhile, I woke up because I just started eating the soup. Instead of focusing on any of you, I was like, the soup will take me away.

And I started eating the soup, and I woke up and I was like, hungry for soup. It was like six AM and I was like, oh, shoot. You took the morally, ethically, spiritually, or the red pill. Whatever one that sends you back into the matrix. Yeah, I woke up very pleased with myself. Like, hell yeah, you passed, man.

You're not a piece of shit. Jesus, the next one, I don't even know, was there a redhead in any of them? Were any of them redheads? Honestly, no. That's why you said no. If there was a redhead in the mix, be a different dream.

It wouldn't have been fair though. The others might not have, they just wouldn't have been there. Why'd your own brain cock block you and not give you a redhead? Honestly, for the best. Maybe that's just a sign. Yeah. Maybe it's all a sign. It's all a sign, yeah. Maybe it's all a sign. The most important part of that dream to me was what soup was? What were we eating? It was a broth of some sort, but it also had the consistency of like hot pot. Like there was stuff in it,

but it wasn't like we were putting in a bowl separately. We were eating from a giant bowl in the middle of the table. Like it was very weird dreams. Strange. Yeah. Very weird. Oh God. Any, any dreams you want to share Alex? I never have, I never have dreams. I almost, I almost never have me either after meditating though. I started dreaming a lot more. I have dreams all the time. They're weird. I have weird dreams. So very well, Alex, you had a nice pitch black dream. Do you just go to sleep and wake up? Usually I don't remember going to sleep. Yeah. Like usually I, man, that's the dream. Usually I'm doing something, but it's like until that moment, I don't remember going to sleep. Yeah, like usually I man that's the dream. Usually I'm doing something but it's like Until that moment. I don't believe I'm ever going to go to sleep Interesting. Okay. Yeah, it's like, you know, your brain just goes until a cold shuts down

Yeah, exactly like up to you which one you want but not neither are fair or just you're like me You do wake up feeling like you slept only occasionally have I ever did I ever fall asleep and immediately open my eyes and feel like I blinked and usually it's because I've had I had to go to work and it was just like the worst that how you feel Alex do you feel like you blink do you feel like you got rest no it's not like a blink it's just like when I wake up it's like I have to put together it's like a little mini version of the hangover happens. I have to like, just piece together. Like I have to find my phone. I have to find my keys. I have to find where, what happens. Tells us on the roof. Like, okay. Like, like this morning,

like I was in bed with the dog and Kelly was there, but like, I found like signs that maybe she fell asleep on the couch and made her way to bed at some point in the night. You know what I mean? I, you know, something micro mysteries. I'm like dipping my hand in like a water and sniffing it. And figuring out the temperature. Yeah. Man, detective vision. You have like instant smoke vision and you kind of just see where things were in a vague sense. Mm hmm. Yeah. Like what's your vision? Yeah, it's like you see something walking around your apartment, but you don't know who it is or what it is. It's kind of blurry. Yeah.

It's like falling over. Yeah. Falling asleep sounds like a hell of an event for you, Alex. I'm sorry. It's it's almost it's it's I never even remember it. Just remember that. That's yeah, I never even remember it. Just remember that part. That's wild. Anyway, go to patreon.com slash ShilluminatiPod. Support us. For more dream vibes.

Also, the timer is ticking on the plushie. If you want that plushie, go to theeddy.com slash Shilluminati. Get it. It's almost going to be gone. I don't know if we're going to sell out of how many we're making before we even get to the timer. So like, if you want it, I know we're close to selling out whatever we end up having, I think a pre-production.

We're getting close. Yeah, it's almost a full sellout, which is just so crazy that the second one even is like that close to that. You guys love these fucking little guys. That little Mothman is so cute. Yeah, I'm so surprised you guys love him that much. I love it. Honestly, when we make a third one, which one day we'll have to. Yeah, one day. And these be one where you squeeze it. He goes,

he needs to have Alex's voice when you squeeze him like his hand or something. He goes, that's what we need. Listen, maybe a little lore, you know, between the what's going on between the Mothman. Maybe there is a third one on the way who knows yeah or maybe it's a baby yeah maybe just needs a friend that's like not a Mothman like maybe there needs to be other oh yeah it'll be a while before we dip into the Mothman again Chupacabra yeah Cabro that my friend the Chupacabra I call him my Chupacabra and he's fine with it and he finds it respectful to his people and culture yeah Dudacabra all right Jess fine with it. And he finds it respectful to his people and culture. Yeah. Duda Cabra. All right. Duda Cabra is good too.

That's the second. That's the second one. That's the reprint. That's the shiny version. Another exciting day, Jesse, you once again have the reins, which is kind of crazy for you to have so many close episodes. Yeah. So going off of Alex's morning routine and solving mysteries, um, I have been, I'm sure everyone knows by now that I love a good mystery. I'm obsessed with mysteries and TV shows and movies and video games and whatever. And the best mysteries that I've come across are the ones that cannot explain that it have no answer

that no one has figured out. And they exist through time and space. Be it the last episode, which was about a mystery of a man who built a place that you're like, how? We don't know. This mystery is one that first caught my eye on Reddit years ago. And I thought it was BS. I read it like, nah, this is stupid. But then it came back again in a very, very strange way two years later. And I was like, this is tantalizing. Yeah. And I was like, huh, okay. To the point where I researched, I researched cause I was like, this makes no sense. There's so many things in this that don't make any sense. And I researched and could not find an answer to it. And so I just put it out to the world as is, because I don't think there is an

answer. And it's fascinating to me. So I'm going to take you on a very bizarre adventure. And if you've seen this before, bless, if not, get ready. It's weird. Okay. So Joanna, now come with me, if you will, all the way back to the year 2017. Oh my God. Maybe four times. I was like, the Nintendo switch was the most recent Nintendo console. There certainly would have been another switch. Trump was president.

The switch was all people talked about. It was a different time. Uh huh. Our story takes place just outside of Cape town in South Africa. was all people talked about. It was a different time. Uh, our story takes place just outside of Cape town in South Africa. It's October 5th, 2017 and to techie Gootsy, I'm not going to even remotely try to pronounce his last name correctly because it has that like that like click in it. And I,

I couldn't even do it if I tried, but this is a man, average man, normal man, 61 year old father of six who went for abdominal surgery at the Stellenbosch hospital, just a normal guy. A few days later on the 7th of October to tech his family received a call from the hospital asking if he was at home with them and his family was like, uh, is he supposed to be at the hospital? And I'm like, no, he, he's not here. So they rushed to the hospital, the room he was staying at, and the family were told that surgery had gone well. He was there to recover at five 15 in the morning. That morning,

a nurse had gone to check on him and decided she needed to change some bed linens for one reason or another. And when she returned, a few moments later, he was gone. The nurse and various staff members had seen no one leave, so they assumed he maybe snuck out or something. And even though it would make no sense for him to do so, And the procedure he had undergone literally meant he could not walk. They assumed maybe somehow someone had took him home. The family and hospital staff searched all day, both inside and outside of the hospital, but they couldn't find the man.

What the fuck? Now keep in mind it's been two days, right? So why they waited that long already seems crazy suspicious to me, but they did. The next day, the family comes back on the eighth and they returned to the hospital, this time with the police. Another search is conducted. The hospital still can't find this man. There's still no explanation for the disappearance. Days go by a week goes by.

Then on October 20th, 2017, workers doing renovation in another part of the hospital smells something strange. After carefully searching, they discovered to techies body in the ceiling of the room they're working on. What the fuck? Exactly. Exactly. Now, you know why I thought this was like one of those fake made up BS.

It sounds like literally like the type of story that would be in a new stop five. Right. And what's crazy about it sounds like true crime, like someone not killed him and then slid him up into the fucking ceiling. There are so many news reports from late October in South Africa about this, that I went to all of them. And I was like, there's got to be something here. So I started deep diving because I was like, hold on, that sounds insane. He's in the ceiling? Yeah. At the time, these newspapers in Cape Town

said that Tateke's brother, Christmas boy, I hope I pronounced this well, Kefwana said the following, and I'm just gonna like give this to Alex to read really quick. Oh, excellent. Probably an American accent would be fine. No, no, I think you should go for the authentic accent.

You should really go for it. You should go for it, man. Method actor. Uh, no, we have been asked to go to the hospital today at 8am to establish what happened and what is going to happen going forward. We are not happy. We don't know where to start because we were under the impression he was safe where he was.

We received a phone call on October 7th asking us if he was not here at home. We told them that he was at the hospital, but they said he was not there and that he had left. We then rushed to the hospital. All we want is for the hospital to take responsibility. Does the hospital not have like CCTV cameras and stuff? That's the other part. I'm going to assume no. Yeah, maybe not. That's the other part. I'm going to assume no. Yeah, maybe not. It does seem crazy that they have no answers.

So then provincial spokesperson, Mark Vanderheever, said the hospital management was in contact with the family and would meet them to make the autopsy available. This is for you, Mathis. This is the hospital rep. Rep. The department conveys its heartfelt condolences to the family of the deceased and extends our trauma and counseling services to them during this difficult time. The family can discuss any other concern or challenge they may have with hospital management. Hi, why the fuck was he in the ceiling?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I have a concern. I might want to challenge something. Great, great questions all. According to any information I found in these 2017 articles, the most I could dig up was that the autopsy revealed he had not died from surgery complications. That's it. I looked all over. Not a damn thing can be found. No info on his, any sort of his, the state of his body. No info on the state of his body.

In fact, I did that thing where you go on Google and you can go to like the little dot dot dot and you can search by year. And I did most recent searches trying to find it. And the most recent thing to pop up was 2019. And there was an article from the Cape Times. And in this, Keith Wana, the brother, is back again and he says the following. This is for you, Alex. We are losing hope. No one has answers for us. All we want is answers from the hospital about what happened to our brother. That will give us closure.

Nothing. They've been told nothing for two years from the hospital. The hospital apparently has kept them in the dark. I don't know what the laws are. So anyone who, who is aware or lives out there, um, and listens to this is if they had fucked up and he died from a fuck, like a surgery mistake or the doctor, would they have been held like the hospital been held accountable? Because I do or the doctor himself, which maybe maybe would he maybe he died from a surgery complication.

Then the doctor's like fucking to hide him. But the thing is, if it's a surgery and I talk about this later, because it's like if it's a surgery complication, you could just say it happens all the time. Like complications, surgery happen. And then, you know, you chuck happens all the time. Like complications in surgery happen. And then, you know, you chuck them in the ceiling. The ceiling's the weird part.

It makes no sense to me. Yeah. I just like, what do you have owed money with the family have had grounds to sue to make like, like you, you killed our, you know, our family member. I don't know. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to throw ideas out there. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing is there's the timing aspect

to it. There's a lot going on here that makes it seem very weird. So again, in the Cape Times, they had that follow up question. And according to the family, the hospital stopped talking to them. And strangely, the police officer assigned the case stopped investigating the case. Yeah, see, that's, that smells like cover up to me. Like, or at least just like, case. When approached for comment, the Stellenbosch Hospital medical manager, Dr. Richard Davids, said the following for you, Mathis. We have extensively communicated around this issue. That's all I will say. There has been communication with the family. When asked further questions, he told them to

refer to the police. They then took this statement back to the family, and the family said the only time they'd ever actually met with anyone from the hospital was that day on the 7th and on the 8th. More insanely, they were told by the hospital that the autopsy declared that the father, Tateke, died of natural causes. God, dude. Because when you're stuffed up in a ceiling, that's like deadly. Yeah, yeah. And that's pretty natural. You shouldn't assume that naturally. This is also very weird. This is for you, Alex.

This is again the brother and his response to that. They, hospital management, said, It was clear that my brother did not die as a result of natural causes. He died as a result of something and was placed where he was found. So they put him in. So they put it in a totally different than what we previously had found killed by negligence and stuff in the ceiling is the only thing that's exactly what I feel sense or, or a

vampire lives in the walls of the hospital that they don't want to, they have to, and they have to nose for rot to take, they have to take care of it or the curse. He got denied the house. So we had to live in the hospital. So here I am sitting at home doing research on this thing, looking around like this, there can't be nothing, right? There just can't be nothing. Is research Jesse stoned?

No, no, no, no, no, no. Research Jesse is intensely curious, which I always am. I love a good mystery. And that's when the craziest thing happened. Turns out the same year in 2019, on the other side of the country in Durban, Sandalai Sibia, a 53-year-old construction worker was helping his neighbor repair his home. And some sort of wild accident, a wall collapsed onto him, breaking his femur. The man was rushed to Mahatma Gandhi Memorial Hospital and after the staff there looked at him, treated him the best they could. We're like, you know what, after initial assessment, we're going to bring

in an orthopedic doctor to figure out what we should do here. And I guess the, the assessment was that he needed to be transferred to Addington hospital for specialized treatment for his, his femur. They met with the man. He approved. They were good to go. They set about the transfer and when they went back to go get him He was missing

He was gone. Here's another wild thought like a black market organ harvesting Quite possibly quite there's a lot of things here that and then they chuck him and then this guy comes out of the fucking ceiling too. So just like the techie dude absolutely could not get up and walk out with a broken femur. Nomagugu that is a great name by the way, Simile or Similane, the newly appointed manager of the hospital said that following an unsuccessful search through various parts of the hospital, uh, by security, a case of missing person was registered with the South African police service reports initially picked it up that maybe he was an escaped mental patient. I don't know why that is. Um, they just originally said an escape mental patient was out.

That's just to like cover it. Is this, I'm sorry, isn't the same hospital you said? Different on the other side of the country. Technically it's Africa. So on the other side of the continent, you said it's in Durban. Yes. Durban. So that would be towards Indian ocean side towards Madagascar ish. This, it was, it was a very, like, I couldn't figure out what was going on there, but initial reports said that it was a man who was potentially dangerous and escaped mental patient.

But again, this was just a dude who went in for normal surgery. But again, no trace of the man was found. However, I'm sure you guys know where this is going. Weeks later, a very strange smell started to emanate from a part of the hospital. This time a store, like a storage room, like a storage closet. And when they went to go figure it out, they opened the door and in the corner, one of the ceiling tiles is leaking. Some weird liquid is dripping from the ceiling tiles is leaking. Some weird liquid is dripping from the ceiling. Further investigation up there was the body of the missing man. Yep.

Uh, I'm just going to give this, this is an employee who literally does not want to be named. There's a lot of those in this case. Interestingly enough, surprising. Mathis is for you. It was on Friday that security guards were called in to follow where the smell was coming from. The guards broke open the to follow where the smell was coming from. The guards broke open the ceiling and made the horrifying discovery of the body. In the papers, the hospital said the following. I'm going to give this to you, Alex.

Postmortem has been conducted by Forensic Pathology Services personnel and will be made available to the next of kin. The department is meanwhile conducting its own investigation, which is expected to yield a preliminary report by Friday. We will not hesitate to take the strongest possible action should anyone be found guilty of any form of wrongdoing." This was at a time when they didn't know that it was him, because the body was so decomposed and messed up that they just thought they found a body in the ceiling. They didn't put two and two together at this point. So they

were putting out like all these different news articles, like, Hey, if you know anything about this, please contact the police immediately. Which is also very strange because I would be like, okay, hold up. What does this mean? We got bodies in the ceiling. Yeah. What's going on? According to the Sunday Tribune, there was still some confusion. Um, we don't understand how he got in there because somebody would have noticed

him trying to get in there, or there would have to be a staircase or a ladder leading up to it because once you're up, you can't really put the thing back. Hospital does not know who he is. His face is really disfigured, said another source asking not to be named. They added this is, this is a nurse there who didn't want to be named that overcrowding at the hospital and lack of bed space was putting undue pressure on nursing staff. And this whole thing might take time to solve.

And just like the Tetekei case, nothing was made public after that. The families insisted that they had not been told a damn thing about what happened. In this case, the family was not even allowed to view the body. And I read somewhere, the reason was that it was too decomposed, but I can't find a source on that. I read a Reddit post. So like they said it was too decomposed, but like I don't, there's, I have no evidence of that being the case. I just know that's what they were told.

Okay. That's just weird. Yeah. It's like, I have so many theories and thoughts, but like, I've already said them. Yeah. So the big question about all this is what the hell happened. Now obviously there's some real possible things here, but you will note that where I read it, the thought was teleportation. What? Obviously, I don't believe that at all.

What is even the logic of the teleportation? Yeah, work me through this. I'll explain. On the various websites that are more paranormal oriented, one, these men were there one minute and gone the next. Everyone who was talking with them was in the room, left, came back, gone. And the implication here is that the times

we're given are accurate. You know what I mean? Like they're saying, like the nurse, for example, in Tateke's case, left to go get linens, came back, max five, 10 minutes. Okay, yeah. And in that time he vanished. And so the idea that a person could have come in and no one would have seen them. Plus there are other people in rooms. Yeah. The context does it makes it more implausible. Right.

There's so much context that it seems like how on earth is this possible? So the implication was that he was there one minute and gone the next and then teleported these men teleported into different parts of the hospital where they died somehow. Now I don't know that explains the death. Like the Philadelphia experiment like they were like teleported into the city. Dude I'm telling you that's what they say. That's what a lot of the paranormal sites say about this. Or missing 411 where like they accidentally slip through through a wrinkle in space time and fucks

them, kills them or whatever. There was one article I read, I don't believe it at all, it seems like just fan fiction to be honest, but the basic implication was that there is throughout the earth these kind of portals, but they're constantly shifting location. And that is why, oh, and this is the most important part. I almost forgot. They move, uh, west to east, which is why it was in 2017 on the East coast of

Africa and in 2019 on the West coast of Africa, and they move in different locations and this was And these are two men who just got caught up in the fluke. Now I don't believe that for a hot sec, but I found it fascinating that people are trying to explain it that way because it definitely is weird enough that it hits that line of it's so unexplained, no one's giving answers. It reminds me of anytime there's a government conspiracy that people are like, well, there has to be an explanation. And sometimes the easiest on the brain is that it is paranormal, that there's a paranormal explanation to this. And these men were teleported away. Again, there's a lot of factors that don't make any sense here that Matthews was talking about when it comes to the time,

location, the people, it just doesn't click with the brain. Again, it feels very location, the people, it just doesn't click with the brain. Again, it feels very, um, Shakespearean, I was gonna say Shakespearean, Sherlockian, or like an episode of Columbo. Like a fucking mocked room mystery or some shit. Yes, yes, it's very Agatha Christie vibes. And I like that. So of course I'm obsessed with this. And I am deep diving at this point, because I cannot get enough of it. Anyway, first let's talk about these hospitals because I did some research on this. News 24 did an expose in the hospitals in Africa and I think this was in 2017.

So this is right around the same time the first guy vanished. It found that the Department of Health noted that many male medical wards were overrun with patients. Rooms that should hold 8 held 16. Many mental patients that were there had no psychiatrists. There was no one on staff to deal with them.

Staff in the obstetrics and gynecology departments were completely burnt out due to the high number of births having. They had high turnover of midwives. According to them, there was between 500 and 620 births a month, which is crazy high. That's a lot for any department to handle. Wow. Okay. That's okay. So you have staff that is already overworked. So my mind, I'm thinking, okay, this is a window. There's something here, right? If you have staff that's overworked, maybe the woman who said she wanted to go change his stuff really wasn't even there. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Maybe she said she did the work, but like didn't actually do it. Who knows? Or maybe there's so many people in the hospital that they just didn't notice. But at the same time, again, imagine a man in a room and instead of eight people, there's 16, surely one of the 16 would have seen something. You know what I mean? Surely someone would have, who knows? Interestingly enough, I found out that a mental patient did wander off at one point, which is like consistent with... Yeah, absolutely consistent with all of this. And I think that's why they assume Sandler was that guy in the media.

But hidden bodies anywhere. Nothing, no hidden bodies, no nothing. That's it's just these two guys thing as far as I'm aware. Yeah. Um, surely this is a breeding ground for something to go wrong. And I'm sure a lot did go wrong, but, uh, you know, the part that searches for an answer in me is screaming at this point. Cause either the surgeries went wrong, kind of like Matthew was talking about,

or another patient or staff member killed him either accidentally or on purpose. Um, I did find that there's, there's two weird stories that I found at the same time. They both are America, but they're both different and weird ways. So great examples this year, literally this year in Chicago, a woman was found in January on the roof of a hospital and I guess she had checked herself in. Uh, they don't explain why she did though. And I wonder if it might be psychiatric related or drug related because she just,

she was in the hospital and then vanished. And then they found her on the roof and she had froze to death. Huh? Don't know anything about that. Uh, I don't know what that means exactly. Another one was in, in Colorado here in the United States, back in the 90s, a girl went missing in a hospital and her body was found in an unused stairwell. And no one knew what happened, but here's the thing.

Turns out like 20 years later, DNA revealed that the killer was a person who was in the hospital, an employee of the hospital. Yeah. See that's, that makes the most sense. They have the most access, the most ability to nose the hospital in and out and where to move. Yeah. But here's the thing. The reason he was caught is because he raped the girl. Yeah. So there was DNA evidence. I feel like it's more likely that it would be somebody from outside the hospital because if you're from the hospital, you're going to try and obscure the death. You're going to try and make it seem like this person died. You wouldn't hide it in a ceiling. That's insane. Yeah. If it was me, I would guess that it's like that dude from Breaking Bad coming to like settle some business, right?

Like some guy who owes somebody money, but he's in the hospital, it's a vulnerable time for that person. Then they get popped and then hidden the ceiling because the record, they don't want a record of their death at all. But you would think that hiding it in the ceiling of the hospital, if you're a hitman, for example, you would know bodies stink and eventually decompose and rot and drip goop. And so like, surely they would be discovered. Well, but as long as they don't connect it to a specific time or person, it's all good. I mean, it definitely has a specific time though, right?

Because there was a vanishing point. Well, we don't know how long they were gone. I you know, they could be. I mean, you're not a specific time though, right? Because there was a vanishing point. Well, we don't know how long they were gone. I, you know, they could be, I mean, you're not, it could be possible. You're not wrong. There's so many factors that make no sense. Yeah, you're saying it's fast, but it's like, that's from the point of view of the people who weren't missing. Like, you don't know what happened to that person. And that brings the question of how did the bodies get moved so quickly if they were killed where they were killed, right? If you walked in, you killed them. How do you get into the room that has multiple people in

it, kill these men, get them out and hide them in a hospital where there's, it's, it's, you have a bunch of staff everywhere, patients everywhere, overflowing patients. Like there's a lot of things that don't make any sense. Plus you did it quickly and quietly. You know, to be clear to everyone, these bodies were not found in the rooms where they were staying in. So they had to be moved. They had to be moved pretty conspicuously. Yeah. It's not easy to move a body, man. They are heavy as fuck. And their injuries made them immobile. So they're not walking anywhere. And at the same time, you're not dragging them or wheeling them out because you would have

to bring a wheelchair or wrap them up in something or watching a man drag a human body down the, like that's a whole other thing. It's a lot of very, doesn't make sense. Right. And so again, very confused. So I saw online that there were a bunch of people talking about, you know, I work in a hospital, I do these kinds of things. I have some like insight into maybe my theories of what would happen.

I was like, okay, I love this. Let's see what these people think. So many doctors were saying that people think. So many doctors were saying that it's possible drugs were involved. Basically, drugs, when you have surgeries like this, when they operate on your bones, you hurt a lot. And so, if they give you morphine or oxycodone or something, and they mess up the amount they give you, because again, going back to the idea that maybe the hospital is understaffed and people are overworked and there's too many patients and not enough time for every patient. You don't potentially, they could have given them too much. Now, initially my thought was, Oh, okay, sure. They accidentally killed them. But again, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Cause then you could just say they,

they died during the surgery or whatever. You can make up something. Yeah. Right. If you're already going to lie and hide them, that's exactly what I say. They died in surgery. Why do you got to stick them in the ceiling? Yeah. So I saw one post this guy made and he's a nurse and he said, actually, sometimes morphine oxycodone make people have a psychotic break. If you've ever been in surgery or after surgery and you have a lot of drugs, you feel a little wacky. Well, the wrong dose or the wrong mix of drugs can cause side effects that makes you feel

paranoia. Yeah. And maybe according to him, I'm not sure how much I buy this, but maybe according to him, they freaked out, ran away to hide because you know, they woke up, They saw someone standing on the room, whatever freaked out, ran away to hide and hid in a ceiling because it was where they felt safe. I don't understand how they would get up there, but that's a potential solution. Maybe. Yeah.

That's like the same as like the fucking, uh, that thing in the mountains that we always like one of the earliest Illuminati's what's that the Diatlov pass? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's like went crazy and went in the ceiling like yeah It's on that actually but yeah, it's just like there's no explanation how we got in the sound again I know like what who? Makes no sense. I just don't understand why you would do it unless it's like foul play in a corrupted, on a corruption level of like, and that's where the idea of like organ harvesting

I kind of like popped in. It's like, they would have to be the cops because the cops have to also be unwilling to like discuss this with anybody. They seem to kind of detach from the case as well, which sounds like they were in communication with the hospital. So to me, just from the outside, there looks like at least in one of the cases, maybe there's some weird like corrupted,

like burying it or something going on. But why? I saw another, um, hospital expert will say, just the person who worked at a hospital and said, like, I know a lot. They were saying that because of the various, you know, legal ramifications of stuff like this, if you're running a hospital that's already a complete mess, but you're trying to keep everyone from understanding it's a complete mess, when someone dies, reports are filed, investigations are done. And so potentially if they accidentally killed him rat, and it was one of those things where it's like, yeah, we had a nurse that

didn't know what they were doing or a doctor who was woefully under trained or whatever. Yeah. It might be better to hide the body, but again, it doesn't make sense. You'd hide it in your own building. None of that makes sense. I like that part doesn't make any sense. So findable. It has to be that they don't care when it gets found. I'm trying to think. OK, so like, let's take from the hospital. Let's just pretend there was a fucked up surgery and they don't they're like don't want to be written up by cops and whatever could ruin their

career. You have limited options, right? So you can either report him dead, which involves the paperwork anyway. And that's what you're trying to avoid taking them outside of the hospital. What floor are they on? And also like, you're going to have to deal with it's a very public area. You're going to, there are probably cameras on the outside of the hospital. So like that might be more risky. You can't tag him as dead legally here. So your best bet is to stick them somewhere. And when you know, they will eventually find him. There'll be no way for them to know what got them.

So yeah, it's tragic as shit and it's a horrible thing to do. But if I was a doctor in that position and trying to like the most easy way to get this done, it's to, he didn't kill him, but maybe like he actively kill him, but maybe the surgery killed him or something and it was literally This is the thought I had in that if I was the doctor who had actually kill him or nurse or whatever or a patient What whatever the case may be nurse whatever it was? Yeah, they already had two days of no into tech case case They're two days of no communication. Yep, where they could say he left. We thought he went home with you guys. Literally.

He wasn't here anymore. And so when you find him in the street dead, you can say he wandered off. That's so sad. Like we, we obviously the problem then is they're going to be like, well, who was watching him? It's still the hospital fault. Yeah. But it's, it's very bizarre. I don't know. So anyway, the next thing that came to my mind was, okay, we'll go back to Alex's theory, a killer, a killer comes in, be it a staff member, be it a got the street beat another patient to be whatever comes in is one of these guys getting a dead body. I know the three of us haven't lifted a dead body solo, but everyone

who has has said they are impossibly heavy. Well, that's where the term dead weight comes from. Yeah, I do. I have carried blackout drunk people around before. And I will tell you that it is not easy to do. Now, imagine taking that person, lifting them above your head and sticking them and placing them in a ceiling. Yeah. That's the part that's so fucking fucked me. Unless you had so much. The best I can think of is it had to be a team of people, but then you have a team of people who know what happened. It would be the hospital. It would have to be two people at least who could take the body quickly into another room that they knew would be empty and stick them in the ceiling. That's the only thing it could be.

Pete Slauson And I, and I was like, that, that's so interesting. So then, of course, I went to go look at the ceiling, because I was like, I need no ceiling. Thankfully, some of the articles, not in the Teteke case, but in the case of, oh my goodness, I already forgot this poor man's name, and I want to make sure I say it correctly, goodness, I already forgot this poor man's name. And I want to make sure I say it correctly. Sandaleh Sabia. In his case, the newspaper showed a photo of the corner of the store room where the ceiling tile was. These are ceiling tiles that are Alex, they're, they look exactly like the ones that were in the old office. Those squares. Yeah, those that have the, it's like almost like government issue. Let's call them.

Yeah, like like public school vibes. Right. And so I thought to myself, that seems very, um, not just hard to get a body up into, but when it's up there, how would it not collapse the ceiling tile? Yeah. You have to distribute the weight really evenly. Right. So you have to, so you can't just cram it into one corner. You have to like figure out a way to weigh it properly in some. So that seemed very strange to me.

And those ceiling tile tiles, I was thinking, okay, obviously no one's up there dusting, like when we were in the old office, when those ceiling tiles had to be moved, there was so much dust up there that it came down and covered the rooms. And so I thought to myself, okay, Sherlock had on two things here. One, either that room, there was a bunch of dust on the floor from where that was opened or two, someone saw the dust, cleaned it up, but now you have an area that is dustless of the ceiling tiles compared to the other ceiling tiles, which are very dusty.

So it seems suspicious. You had no one. Well, it wasn't even know apparently like, yeah, yeah, it wasn't apparently. Right. So then I was like, all right, well, how much, how much, how much does a body weight? How much would a body weight? I believe the average African male weight is like 185 pounds or so. Um, I do not do not, I cannot verify that. That was some dude on Reddit who said that's what he said. So I cannot verify that's the information that popped up when I looked

it up. Um, so just go off the reports, lifting 185 pounds, dead weight to the top of the thing. I, I just don't think those can support it, but maybe it was like buoyancy, like what, like, I don't know. You spread the weight out equally enough. You'd be surprised like how much something could support, you know, like it would require, but again, it would require somebody

or multiple somebody's lifting that body in there and like sliding it out and like, you know, hoping, it's just, it's weird. Let me remind you, according to the reports, they said when they went missing, we searched everywhere, both men. So I don't know how long it would take someone to move a person, then hide that person in the way they were hit.

Right. Because if everyone's searching, then that means you have to do it quick. And again, this is like murder mystery levels of quick. This is the lights went out, the lights came on, do dead. And it makes no sense. Again, this is pure Jesse murder mystery. I'm like, oh my God, what the, I'm obsessed with this. So I'm kind of-

Because it makes no sense. Looking at it at like almost Occam's razor, maybe it's the wrong word, but it seems more likely that the hospital would have been involved with multiple people. If they said they looked everywhere and he disappeared quickly and he showed up, the only way that makes sense for the hospital

to come to that conclusion is if they are all in some level on a know that like, we don't fuck with this anymore, like this is something we don't worry about. It's like, cause that's, you know, going to this, the killer route becomes more, like you said, there's more, more gears have to be working properly. He needs to be quicker. He needs to be working alone.

Or maybe there's only two of them. Like more has to be very specifically correct for that to fit rather than the hospital being like, all right, fuck. Or like a group of people in the hospital being like, fuck, okay. You know, it's just easier that way. Cause they're there, but it's still, I don't know. Yeah. And that's why to me it seemed premeditated. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Like it seems too

clean as it seems so clean that it could have been an accident, but it also, at least the case, the first one, there's a two day window where there's no information given. And that sounds potentially accidental, who knows? But in the second case, that dude was, they were going to transfer him to another hospital, dude gone. And they were like, hold on, they panicked and looked for him and they found nothing. So that was even more mysterious. Yeah. And so of course, I was like, all right, well, what are the reasons a hospital would do something like this? Cause in my mind, I'm like, okay, let's do the math math is route of like, this is premeditated. They got together and they killed this dude for some reason. I think you mentioned this earlier, Oregon harvesting. Sure. Um, there is a strong black

market of Oregon harvesting in Africa. Okay. And maybe someone paid off doctors, nurses, whoever, to harvest the organs of these men and then hide the body so that, you know, when it came time to find them, there would be no real autopsy available. Too liquified, there's no way to know. Yeah, those organs would have been gone so fast. You would think that they could say, well, there's no sign.

Like we found signs of all these other organs except for the kidney. It's missing for some reason. Like, I don't know if a kidney fully liquefies in two weeks. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that is so fucking it. It question seems impossible. It seems the question then to add to add to that Alex is they're both one guy's 53. The other guy's 61. You figure if you're going to

harvest organs, you get it from someone younger. How much do we know about these guys? They're, they're literally just average Joe's. One guy was helping a friend fix his house. One guy was just like, um, here's the, this is the problem. And I think, I think, I think you're onto something. Every research about, I looked up their names. I tried to find any information.

All the information is from the same news articles. They're like family man of six kids, 61 year old to tech. A was an average citizen who went in to get a routine surgery. And I'm like, why, why do you go get the surgery? What was wrong? They needed abdominal surgery. What was nothing? Nothing is available. It seems like a complete failure of the news, but also I don't know what the new situation is like in South Africa. I also found a little bit of info on what it's like for liability out there compared

to us. So I read this couple paragraphs, but I'll go through quick. The doctrine of vicarious liability hold an employer legally responsible for the wrongful acts or remissions of their employees that occur during the course and scope of their employment. This principle extends to hospitals making them liable for the negligence of their employed medical professionals, such as doctors, nurses, and other staff members, provided the negligent act occurred while they were performing their duties as hospital employees.

Determining whether an individual is an employee or an independent contractor is crucial as the hospitals are generally not vicariously liable for the negligence of independent contractors unless specific circumstances, such as the hospital exercising significant control over the contractor's work are present. The case Goliath v. MEC Health is kind of like what serves as the illustration of vicarious. In South Africa? Yeah, in South Africa,

where the court held MEC Health responsible for the negligence of hospital staff, reinforcing the accountability that are beheld. And then beyond the actions of their employees, hospitals can also be held liable under the principle of direct institutional liability for their own negligence as organizations independent of the actions of individual staff members.

And this form shows up from failures within hospitals own systems, policies and procedures. Examples, liability include negligence in hiring practices, inadequate training or supervision of staff, failure to establish and enforce appropriate patient safety protocols, negligence in maintaining a safe environment.

So it looks like just for the looking at it from the perspective of like they fucked up and it might cost them a fuck ton of money. They look, the hospital itself can be held liable in two different ways. It looks like, is that any different than the U S I don't know how medical malpractice is sued for in the U S. All I know is what I saw on house. So I, I don't know that's reliable. I don't know. That's really bizarre. I mean, yeah, I just don't know.

So another thing I looked up because I thought, boy, this seems, this seems like something I should look into was what reasons would a person who is staying at a hospital, what reasons would they have for getting up, getting out and trying to hide or get away or do something? Had there been any other incidents of people doing weird stuff like this? And yes, the answer is yes. Apparently often medical professionals will talk about the fact that, um, those ceiling squares, those, those tiles are actually terrible for hospitals because

sometimes if it's a psychiatric patient or potentially a drug addict who is really Jones. And what they'll do is they'll attempt to open the tiles, climb up in them and then climb over to the pharmacy and steal drugs. Oh, and I was like, interesting. Now that's that's a little interesting. So, yeah. You want some more info by the way? Oh, sure, sure, sure. So here's a huge, huge difference between the U S and them, the South Africa,

their law does not impose any statutory limits on the amount of damages that can be awarded in medical malpractice cases, including wrongful death. U S there is caps on how much anybody can be paid out. That does not exist in South Africa. It can go as high as they deem possible. And I feel like that's a massive difference. Well, what's interesting. It seems very dangerous.

Yeah. What's interesting is that there are other cases of people dying in hospitals in South Africa. Yeah. There are many. Yeah, I imagine people dying. Because again, it's overcrowded, it's interesting is that there are other cases of people dying in hospitals in South Africa Yeah, there are many. Yeah Complete mess. Yeah happens and All the time. Yeah, so why these two specific cases is so strange That's why it's like very weird to me because I looked up online. I was like, okay So maybe maybe they're actually killing it over there in South Africa when it comes to

Keeping people alive in hospitals. That's just not true. This is not true. I just, and so, yeah, fuck. I, again, questions came up and Alex, like I was saying with the drugs, people have all over the world. That's why those tiles are considered bad because they will get on the bed, move out of the way, stack chairs, get up there, try to climb and get drugs.

Cause it's late at night. And again, this was five 15 AM to tech ace case, but, but they saw the other man's case. I mean, I don't know. It was, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't that early. Sandala was like, just the guy who was going to get transferred. Middle of the day. Yeah. It's possible like one died for one nefarious reason and one died for the drugs and they just ended up in the same Place like that's very true. Like they're probably not directly tied but but again Both men were incapable of walking. Yeah

You're ab look if you have like abdominal surgery. Yeah, you're not getting up. You're not moving your lower legs at all And if you broke your femur, you're like that's pure pain So how how I really thought we were gonna figure this out guys We were gonna solve this on this episode I don't think this is a solvable mystery because every corner, every turn, everywhere you go, it isn't just that it makes no sense. It's that any possible information you could find does not exist. Not about the men, not about their care at the hospital, not about the doctors

or the nurses or the families or any of it. None of it. There's so little available information that upon searching, you will find not just the same articles, but a great example is copy. Yeah. I went to this one site and then I found a bunch of links that are about this, this story that I went to Google and I typed in the names, I typed in dates and he brings stuff up and I had window after window after window open. 90% of them were various versions of the exact same article. In fact, some of them said they

were the actual printout of the article. And then people just copied the printout and put it on their own web page. What? Okay. So like some information is roughly info stealing type shit. Yes, absolutely. Uh, but you can go directly to the various African websites, the, the different news outlets and they all have their own little spin, but it's the same thing. It's literally the same. Like we went there, we tried to ask questions. The hospital said nothing to us.

We went to the family, the family said, we don't know anything. questions, the hospital said nothing to us. We went to the family, the family said, we don't know anything. And we, one of the things I noticed was that a lot of the family of Take, for example, were like, we just, we can't afford to pay for the man's funeral. We just want the hospital, we aren't even trying to get money from the hospital. We just want them to pay for the funeral. Like we can't afford it. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. And it continues to not make sense to the point where in this research, I must stress, I feel late to the game because there are so many podcasts out there that are talking about this very story. Usually murder mystery ones, but I saw there were a ton of them and I was like,

I can't listen to these because I don't, if they solved it, I don't want to be like, guys, I figured it out. Like, no, I don't want to because I don't think it is solvable. It doesn't seem like it from my cursory doing my quick research with just trying to figure out how laws work and shit does not look like anybody fucking has figured this case out at all. I mean, if somebody like that are the hospitals still there? Yeah, you can literally if you can Google maps them. Yeah, like, I don't know. I'm sure that it's investigatable if you're in fucking South Africa. But I don't know how the fuck I would do that from here. Like I only I'm I'm like, keep in mind, seriously, six years ago. Yeah, I'm six years ago now.

Gling this right now. And the only thing that I'm seeing is that in one of the two hospitals, they found a little girl mummified in a storage room one time. So I was like, God, God, she was mummified in a storage room one time. So I was like, good God! She was mummified in the sense that she was wrapped in a plastic sheet and it mummified her. Like she wasn't like prepared. Yeah, no, I know.

I figured that's what you meant. It's like you'd, oh God. Oh my God. But I guess that goes back to the idea that these hospitals are a mess. I mean, they did say in 2017, they had a report from the government that said, yeah, the hospitals are a complete shit show. Yeah.

Yeah. No shit. Clearly. And that makes, it makes sense. And it's a good setup for the fact that of course, stuff like this is going to happen, but the fact that this very specific thing, it isn't that the guy was murdered clearly murders are happening here. People are dying.

It's that they were stuffed in the ceiling of a different room that requires access to it. So for example, the store room, not everyone can go in the store room. You have to be an employee. Here's the thing that makes me think this is a coverup. Those rooms had an access card. You would know for certain who accessed that room the day that man went missing. And do they know? Do we know? The hospital said nothing, which is why I'm like cover-up. Clear cover-up. Huh. Yeah, that's what it feels like. It feels like there's cover-up going on here. But if the plan was to hide the body and then just let it rot, that's a truly terrible plan.

Yeah, but people are stupid too, man. Like that's just not stupid enough that they didn't like they formed a team and then hit a bike. It seems crazy to me. And I'm sure it could be like maybe a nurse panicked and then someone helped the nurse or another nurse was with them and they hid the bodies. But it's like you could just say we found him dead. Yeah, there's no reason to like fucking do this whole rigmarole unless something bad

happened. Right. Cause yeah, cause if you just say find him dead, but that means an autopsy happens. Unless you like go to jail for manslaughter if you mess up on a surgery in this country and we don't know. We yanked out a fucking organ and let him die from internal bleeding quietly and then slid his body away. Yeah, I mean, again, the assumption here.

Yeah, surgery went great, buddy. Just hang out there. Don't worry. Yeah, you're gonna be a little pain in your guts for a bit. You like give him a couple hours and he dies and you fucking get rid of him. Yeah, the assumption here is that every narrator, everyone who's talking in this story a bit, you like give him a couple hours and he dies and you fucking get rid of them. Yeah. The assumption here is that every narrator,

everyone who's talking in this story is being honest with us. Exactly. No way. I don't, it's impossible to believe that. Like the idea that the nurse said I was there at 5 15 AM, I came back and he was gone and it was a quick amount of time. Doesn't make any sense. The fact that they were like, we were going to transfer him to the hospital. Uh, the orthopedic guy was like, come on, let's go. And then he just wasn't there. That also doesn't make any sense because that just doesn't happen. So they're clear liars here. The question is, who's lying and about what? And that's the big

mystery because absolutely something happened to these people. And the fact that the hospital's like, we aren't even, we aren't, we've talked with the family. What are you talking about? They go to the family, the family's like, no, they haven't said nothing to us. Like that screams, like something went down, conspiracy. Pete Slauson Yeah, nuts. Pete Slauson But again, it's the fact that it was so bizarre that allows conspiracies to happen that say they were teleported. Anything where there's like a mystery that occurs, like that lady who like caught on

fire or anything like that. Yep. Because it's like, nobody knows what happened. And then something happened. It's like immediately your mind just goes to the crazy town explanation, just because you want life to be interesting, I think. Sure. Yeah. These are the more frustrating mysteries, like, because my first reaction would be like, all right, let's find paperwork. Let's look at like the history, but they've got that shit on their lock and key and they

won't let anybody see it. So you just like, this is that. Yeah. It's an open breeding ground for like everything from true crime serial killer to time rip in space time sent them to the ceiling where nobody found them for a week and both have audiences who believe it. And ironically, I think the best answer is probably the one that would be the, you know, law and order answer, which is the hospital did it. They covered it up and Mariska Hargitay figured it out. You know what I mean?

Like she's like, I got it. Don't worry about it. That's, that's, that's it. There's nothing else. I looked and looked, I went back and forth. There's nothing from the last year, nothing from the last. I mean, the fact last year, when I did a last year search, that's how I found out about the people and the woman in Chicago on the roof. I did a, I did a two year search, nothing three years search, nothing. I did over COVID search, nothing. There's just no information at all. And it's utterly bizarre. It's, it's really, it comes down to, you come down to your conclusion via process of elimination only.

What are the only things that fit the very specific criteria that we hear? We can't have any gaps because any gaps means it's not then it didn't happen that way. So you're left with the only logical answer is the hospital was involved some way somehow. And that's all we'll know. And that's because nothing else fits that motive. Maybe the hospital at large, maybe a doctor and his nursing team who are all getting, you know, like a group of people within the hospital itself were clearly involved in some way. And the biggest question I have is, again, I don't know damn thing about organ harvesting,

but you figure you want a fresh organ to give to someone. But I guess if it's about money and the person you're selling it to doesn't know You could just say it's an 18 year old kid's liver or whatever or kidney They wouldn't know the difference if you're secretly smuggling organs Yeah Or you just take it you just take it out while you're doing the regular surgery on him and he never knows and you just like literally let him bleed out I Absolutely, this is crazy. I read a story about this dude had surgery. They told him he was gonna have a hard recovery Everything's fine. They took one of his kidneys and just didn't tell him right. That's what I'm saying. Like they have

Guy with an open gut to like, you know, the Eastern Europe In the 90s, I think and they just they think I told this guy's kidney to sell it That's insane, dude. Capitalism, baby. So, but I mean, like, that can happen. Yeah. But also, yeah, you could just be like, you're getting old, the recovery time is going to take a while. He wouldn't ever know he was missing a kidney.

Right? Maybe that's the thing. Maybe they took something that wasn't supposed to kill him and they killed him and they got to hide the body and now, you know, like, Yeah, I don't, I just don't know. And it makes me upset because I know a lot of people are scared of doctors. And this just adds to that fear. But I must stress this is a rarity and a complete freak mess up thing. Like this isn't so many people go into surgery every day. This is like you shouldn't be thinking about this stuff, but it is a fascinating mystery that has no answer. And the thing is you can literally just right now at home, Google T E T E K E missing man Africa, and

you will go down a rabbit hole. You will find the articles, you will find all the Reddit posts and the conspiracy website posts and all the podcasts that have talked about this. We're going to, we're going to come back next week. It's going to be a part two, but it's run by Alex. Yeah. If he finds it, I was so impressed. I will be like, this man figured it out. I'm so proud. There's no way I'm going to use the internet to solve this murder. There's no way.

Oh man. And I'm calling it a murder. I shouldn I'm going to use the internet to solve this murder. There's no way. Oh man. And I'm calling it a murder. I shouldn't even call it a murder. To be honest. Something nefarious happened. Something not on the up and up went down. Yeah. Yeah.

Something not on the up and up went down. I am curious if there is, cause the one thing I didn't do was go back from 2017. Is there a string? Because what if this is a crazy what if what if there is a killer? This is MO and he's been doing this for years and every two years or whatever he goes and he kills someone and hides the body in the same place he killed them. Maybe it's in the hospital like this again. It's possible. It seems like a murder movie. It seems like seven or some shit. It seems like a law and order or Columbo or a Sherlock

If you look at a serial killer the evidence you want to look for is the time between killings get shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter because it's like a Drug to them like them the first time they do it They'll never ever hit that high from the next kill But it's not good enough until it starts not so if it starts ramping up or more and more people are mysteriously dying, that's when I'd start looking for like someone who's trucking kids. Like maybe this was like a botched one. Maybe like he's killed other people more cleanly in the past where they was.

They could write it off. I don't know. It's. Let me stress. I am so interested in this case. This was not going to be in the boys can test. This was not going to be my episode today. No, no, you switch a couple days ago. Yeah. I was like, I need to, it's like, what I need to talk about this with you because I'm obsessed with this. I wonder if we've had a lot of synchronicities with the show. I wonder if this will hear an update of this thing in the next leg. I hope to like you talk about magnet tricity coral castle and what we got like the real magnetristic. He's really covered a week later.

Like, oh wait, we can actually generate power from the earth. I'm hoping Cox's or Thomas pays off here. Then. Come on. Yeah. Let's I want an update. Throw it in. I genuinely.

Yeah. And what's weird is I feel like this wasn't on my radar. I honestly blew off as a fake story. And then when I started doing research, I saw like all these podcasts were doing episodes on it. I was like, I miss, I feel like all these podcasts were doing episodes on it. I was like, I miss, I feel like I missed out on a true mystery. That's like so perfectly me when it comes to things I'm interested in. Yep.

This was one of them and I have no answers for you. I'm obsessed with things that have no answers because it's like, we'll never know. We'll never know. And it happened. You know what I mean? Like it's not like real. It happened. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. So crazy what I mean? Like it's not like real. It happened. Yeah. Yeah.

Crazy. So crazy with that tantalizing hook, Jesse. We'll leave it to the audience. Maybe the audience will figure it out. We've got some smart people in the audience. They go to your well, legally go to maybe is there a foyer? No, not for there's no foyer for hospital records. I imagine I would say probably don't go rooting around South African hospitals. Yeah. I don't think the Freedom of Information Act applies there. Yeah, I don't think so. Probably not. Fair enough. All right.

Well, thank you, Jesse, for this fucking weird mystery that I went down to Mini Rabbit Hole as we were doing the episode. I watched you guys start researching. I was like, I'm not really still just like, find the laws. Obsessively typing in shit. Yeah. Yeah, we we gotta figure it out. We're off to go to a mini-sode over at patreon.com slash shulamdari pod.

Thank you guys so much for your support. We appreciate you, we love you. We'll see you next week. Go get the Mothman plush. Bye. Bye. Anyway, me and my wife were sitting outside indulging on our porch one night enjoying ourselves.

I needed to go to the bathroom, so I stepped back inside and after a few moments, I hear my wife go, holy shit, get out of here. So I quickly dash back outside. She's looking up at the sky in the fall. I look up too, and there's a perfect line of dozen lights traveling across the sky. So So Thanks for watching.