Citation Needed - Animals on Trail

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

In legal history, an animal trial was the criminal trial of a non-human animal. Such trials are recorded as having taken place in Europe from the thirteenth century until the eighteenth. In modern times, it is considered in most criminal justice systems that non-human animals lack moral agency and so cannot be held culpable for an act.

Hello and welcome to Citation Needed, the podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet and that's how it works now. I'm Noah. I'm going to be presiding over this court today and to do it properly, I'm going to need my officers of the court. First up, the prosecutor and the defense attorney, at least whenever I've played board games with them, Heath and Eli.

I'll allow it. Yeah. I keep us from going to jail by sleeping sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. And also joining us tonight, two men who are so obviously the bailiff and the court reporter that I feel like I'm not even doing my job here, Tom and Cecil. Okay, I just want the handcuffs and that baton.

Don't ask a lot of questions. I just want that. I like basketball. Court reporter. Before we begin tonight, I'd like to thank our patrons the the patrons got to hear a racist cat do a suicide bombing this That's what we have If you'd like to learn how to hear your own racist cat do a suicide bombing be sure to stick around to the end of

The show and with that end of the show. And with that out of the way, tell us Heath, what person, place, thing, concept, phenomenon or event will we be talking about today? We're going to be talking about animals on trial. Sure. Okay. So what are those? We did that?

We did that. We have a long, insane history of doing that. Lots of the examples are from centuries ago when religious lunatics in medieval times would bring evil animals to ecclesiastical court. But we also have some relatively recent examples when religious lunatics in modern times had very real trials in court for non-hum. And the history of animals on trial also includes a dog who stood trial for cat murder in 1921. You know the Floridian dogs just laughing at the world. Stand your ground in the Sunshine State bitches. Right. The canine stand your ground provision is just called stay, but yeah.

So before we divide the panel and the audience into a very serious blood feud between cat people and dog people, I'll give you some of the earlier examples of animals who stood trial for their crimes. And in order to ease us into the topic, I'll start us off with Bugs. I feel like alienating bug people is alienating the wrong people. Yes, yes. Okay, if anyone listening is like, no I love my tarantula. No you don't. No you don't. Yes he does. And we know that you're a serial killer. No you don't. Stay tuned for the end of the episode. You can mail Heath tar gonna say. You can mail him a bucket of tarantulas. I think they're super cute and it's, aw man tell me about the tricks they do, I believe you and I love you and I'm on your side.

Cuddle! I believe you cuddle. Per person who has access to an illegal pet, I am on your side. Wake up with a fucking Death's Head moth in your mouth. Down your throat. Tarantulas chopped off head next to me in bed. All bloody when I wake up. You'd hate that, see? You're trying to do a bit, but that's so scary. It is scary.

So I love them too. The history of prosecuting bugs. It goes back as early as the ninth century. This includes a proclamation by Pope Stephen the sixth that exiled a problematic swarm of bugs and included spraying a pesticide of holy water all around the outskirts of Rome. No. In one case, it was ruled that bugs were not technically part of Noah's Ark and therefore they don't have the same rights as official Ark analysts. I love this. That's a real thing. This is the best thing ever. Noah's Ark and therefore they don't have the same rights as official Ark analysts. What? I love this so much.

That's a real thing. This is the best thing that ever happened. And in general, trials of bugs would end with a bug population being told in writing. No! Seriously in writing that it must cease and desist and must leave a given jurisdiction by a certain day and a certain exact time of day. You're still hanging out at 1130, but this is as almost fucking known. Okay, that's like the ninth least silly thing today's Pope could do.

So like I guess. Yeah, okay. That's accurate. But okay, so but by excluding bugs from the ark, they're kind of admitting that the biblical deluge wasn't so bad that roaches couldn't think their way through it. I did seem like an odd initiative to make. All right. So the craziest example of a bug trial that I found happened in France in 1545. Vineyards in the town of St. Julian were getting their crops ruined by weevils

and they demanded action, legal action. The local authorities made a proclamation asking for mass public prayer to atone for whatever sins were causing the infestation hoping that God would make the weevils go away and it worked. No it didn't at all. But the weevils left at some point later in the time dimension, so they thought it worked. Or maybe French sins just take extra long to pray away. We don't know.

Pretty bad sense. Weevils sound like the cutest little bit of evil you ever did see, don't they? They do. No weevil. So the praying magic lasted more than 40 years. No, it didn't. Then the weevils came back and the town had no other choice than to prosecute.

The trial started in 1587. No other choice. None other. So they did a trial starting in 1587 and the Weevils were assigned a public defender Antoine Filiole. Oh proud moment for the Filiole family. I'm sure right there. Sure was. Thanks for paying for my education. Guess what I'm doing with it. So, Antoine Fillio argued that his clients were obviously put here by God and the divine creator of the universe would never create a population without providing sustenance for that population to survive.

It was just bad luck that the sustenance provided by God was in fact the local cash crop. This was a really great argument It's hard to represent a swarm of bugs because they all think they're sovereign cicadas and Please don't interrupt Joke deserves crickets I'm just glad the bugs got a public defender. This whole thing would have felt silly.

Yeah, right. So here's how the prosecution made its case. The district attorney claimed that a town of settled human beings clearly has official spiritual dominion over the nomadic hoard of bugs. According to author Edward Payson Evans in his seminal work on the subject, seriously it is, it's called the criminal prosecution and capital punishment of animals, according to him, the VA made the following argument, quote, although the animals were created before man, they were intended to be subordinate to him and subservient to his use and that this was indeed the reason of their prior creation.

End quote. This was also a very good argument. So tricky. And this trial is heating up folks. The defenses come out swinging the weevils have wobbled, but they won't fall down as a result of the legal and spiritual impasse, the town of St. Julian had to find a compromise. They decided to provide a dedicated piece of land where the Weevils would be allowed

to freely congregate. Of course, any Weevil venturing outside of that zone would get in big trouble. This would appease both the grape farmers and the God of the universe. I feel like this was gonna be the colonizing answer to a lot of questions in the coming years. Yeah. Let's go.

Well, and we should also probably acknowledge that this is also the inevitable silliness of Christianity. Right, because if the Christian worldview is correct, let's see how this plays out would always be the right answer. So even fucking bug spray should be as seen as an affront to God's divine plan. Should be. Okay.

Don't worry. The town wasn't going to be stupid about granting the Weevil sanctuary. They did it responsibly. The large piece of land came with an official easement. Humans of the town reserved the right to pass through the Weevil Sanctuary, without prejudice to the pasture of the said animals. They also reserved water rights,

with the use of the natural springs, to be made available to human beings in perpetuity. Okay, if the Weevils hit oil and end up being right-wing super-packed donors, so much is about to make sense to me. So, the town made the offer of land, hoping to reach a settlement with the Weevils. But their attorney, Mr. Filial, could not, in good conscience conscience accept that deal. Of course, he's required to zealously advocate for the weevils and the tract of land being offered was, you know, kind of shitty. In particular, it didn't have enough grapes or other food for his clients.

So he demanded a better piece of power. Come on. The prosecution responded by explaining how the original offer was pretty great, considering, you know Your clients are fucking bugs and they noted that the designated sanctuary is quote full of trees and shrubs of diverse Kinds one of the wheels is like who the fuck are you Aaron Brockovich? Take the settlement man. Come on Not to sidebar us for too long, but Aaron Brockovich is a weird movie, right?

Like the lawyer against the corporate war crime was kind of hot. So we made the whole movie about her, about that. That's like if Oppenheimer had been about how meaty his hog was. In retrospect, it's a real doozy that. So Oppenheimer, yeah. So the dispute over a reasonable sanctuary for weak peoples led to breakdown in negotiation for a settlement and the court had to make a ruling. This happened eight months after the trial began.

This is an eight month trial. Jesus Christ. But sadly, the official decision is lost in history. And that's because the last page of the court record was literally destroyed by bugs. That's amazing. That's genuinely amazing. But based on historical precedent, the Weevils were likely told to either accept the provided sanctuary or leave town by a certain deadline lest they be declared anathema by the church. That's the non-human version of being excommunicated.

So really bad news if you're a bug. Yeah, but I feel like if you have to have a way to excommunicate bugs, maybe your church has lost the plot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe. I just, I want to know how many times during these eight months of negotiations, the other guys just turned to filial and went, come on. A lot of that in French. And that brings us to another animal trial from 16th century France. This time, the defendants

were a group of rats. The alleged perpetrators had, quote, feloniously eaten up and wantonly destroyed the barley crops in the province of Autun. And once again, there was a public defender to represent the accused. This time, it was a renowned attorney named Bartholomew de Chassone who had extensive experience in this particular field of animal jurisprudence. He'd already defended insects and pigs in the past. For the rats, he attempted to derail the trial by making pleas to get adjournments. In his first plea, he claimed his clients were too old and too sick to attend the trial. That plea succeeded and he got a really long time out.

All right. Well, let's see with a lifespan in the wild of about one year. I'll just need a few continuances and Mr. and Mrs. Plague rat, you'll be free to live out your probably about a day or so. Wait, sorry. Were the fucking weevils in the courts in the last one? So eventually the trial continued after the aisle opens a tiny little briefcase. Eventually, the trial continued after the aisle opens a tiny little briefcase. Half chewed page comes out. So, eventually the trial continued after the prosecutors made some counter motions and

that's when Mr. Deschassonne argued that his clients would love to appear at trial and defend themselves, but they just couldn't safely get to the courthouse. They feared for their lives because of all the local cats. And according to Evans, the public defender claimed the rats should be excused, quote, on the ground of the length and difficulty of the journey and the serious perils which attended it, owing to the unwereied vigilance of their mortal enemies, the cats, who watched all their movements and, with fel intent, lay in wait for them at every

corner and passage, end quote. He demanded that everyone in the town keep their cats inside for the duration of the trial. But all the locals refused to do that, so the case was dismissed. Shut up! Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Medieval Jerry triumphs over Tom. Classic first episode.

So the fact that these are literally the same arguments used to shield Cardinal Pell should at least tell us something, right? All right, that brings us to the trial of a rooster who was actually not a rooster in 1474 the people of Basel, Switzerland became convinced that an area cockerel or young rooster was guilty of laying an egg. Just to be clear, a rooster is a male chick. Nonetheless, local authorities put the cockerel on trial for the, quote, heinous and unnatural crime of laying an egg. Ron DeSantis is listening. There was also deep suspicion that the egg

was actually spawned by Satan, the Prince of Darkness, and contained a cockatrice, a mythical dragon with the head of a rooster. Sadly, the defendant was unable to convince the jury that she was clearly a fucking hen and she was sentenced to death by fire. Jesus! On the day of the public immolation the executioner said that he found three more eggs inside the offender. So Dragon Crisis subverted they killed the cockerel. Slightly because those three eggs fell into the fire where it's an area's Targaryen Happens I just say the origin story for the church's chicken franchise We have Pig trials in one example from Europe, a pig was hanged for sacrilegiously

eating a consecrated wafer. In another example, a pig ate a human child and got in extra trouble beyond just the murder part because that happened on a Friday. Come on. Seriously, apparently the church had, I don't know, some kind of like reverse length concept in their heads. And the day of the week was highlighted by the prosecution as an aggravating circumstance. That argument was accepted by the court and it led to a more severe version of being executed. On the day of the execution, the offending pig was paraded through town wearing human clothing. Why? Why? Why human clothing? Were they worried the victim wasn't cute enough already?

So aggravating circumstances, man. Friday. Another pig trial. That'll do at a French monastery. Nice. That's excellent. That is excellent. Amazing.

Another big trial happened at a French monastery near the end of the 14th century. A herd of pigs got tired of, their atheism, so they attacked and killed a monk. Really it was only three of the pigs that actually did the murdering, but the entire herd got put on trial. According to court documents, the onlooking pigs were considered to be complicit in the crime as evidenced by their quote, cries and aggressive actions that showed they approved of the assault. And quote, get them Larry. I mean, I mean, so following the indictment, the head of the monastery got worried about the economic repercussions

of losing his entire herd of pigs and wrote a letter to the Duke of Burgundy pleading for a pardon of the pigs who were just watching. Of course, he was cool with a full prosecution of the main perpetrators. We live in a society. In response, the Duke refused to absolve the onlookers, but he agreed to have their punishment remitted and let them be released after the verdict. The trial ended with all the pigs being sentenced to death by hanging or burning, but only the main three assailants were actually executed.

Okay. I'm just saying hosting a barbecue had a lot of extra steps back in the day. Right. All right. So that brings us to the trial of a sailor in the French Navy who was also a monkey. Disclaimer. This one is based entirely on local legend. And of course that which is true in Eli Bosnik's heart. Nice. So during the Napoleonic Wars, the early 1800s, a French boat was wrecked off the coast

of Hartlepool, England. The only survivor of that wreck was a monkey who washed ashore and the monkey was dressed in a tiny little version of a French Navy uniform. So naturally the locals decided to hold a fucking trial. During the trial, the monkey was unable to answer any of the very simple questions during that trial. And since the people of Hartlepool had never seen a monkey nor a Frenchman before, they

concluded that the monkey must be a French spy and the monkey was sentenced to death by hanging. So the monkey trial, obviously stupid, but in fairness, not as stupid as finding scopes guilty of teaching evolution in science class. Either way, the people of Hartlepool are known as Hartlepudlians or monkey hangers. Local rugby union, they're known as the Rovers or the Monkey Hangers and their local football club has a mascot named hangus 2002 a guy named Stuart coming ran for mayor while constantly in costume as Hang on Jesus Christ

Yes, yes,apping feels a little out of the show the fuck did went on to be reelected in 2009 and the town even has a jaunty song about that one time they all got drunk and hanged a French monkey so. It's pretty great. All right, well, it looks like two centuries of auditioning for a spot on Citation Needed finally paid off for the Hartley Poodleians, so we're going to give them a moment to celebrate, and we're going to give you a little apropos of nothing. Your honor, my clients, rats would love to testify, but I am afraid their whiskers are terribly uncurled.

I see. Prosecution? If it pleases the court, it's not the curl of a rat's whisker that pleases him, but the length, I would argue. Excuse me? Sir, please, we're trying to have a trial here. Really? So rude. Right, right. Look, this is very cute or whatever, but I also have a trial today, and I was wondering if we could sort of like move it along.

Sir, you shall have your trial and be accorded the full justice of the law. It's just getting towards the end of the day, kind of waiting in jail when I'm not being tried. So I was thinking- Sir, sir, sir, I would no sooner thrust aside the accused in this case than I would your own trial. So please, I ask you one time, control yourself. Yeah, okay. Sorry, sorry. Now where were we?

Ah yes, bail motions. Yes, your honor, we're afraid the defendant may cheese it given the opportunity. It's just that I didn't kill that guy. Sir, I will not tell you again. Got it given the opportunity. It's just that I didn't kill that guy. Sir, I will not tell you again. Got it. Got it. Sorry.

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All right that brings us the story of Dormy, an Aridale Terrier who stood trial in San Francisco, California for cat murder in the year of our Lord 1921. Dormie was charged with 14 counts of Felicide, including the alleged murder of an 8-year-old cat named Sunbeam and her three kittens. According to local laws at the time, in the event of any aggressive behavior by a dog, both the human and the dog were liable. The human, Eaton McMillan, was facing a misdemeanor and a fine, and Dormie, the dog, was facing the literal death penalty.

Keith, I'm gonna tell you what I tell you on D&D minus. If you're gonna kill the dog, you're gonna really have to make this work. Okay? Or, or, fuck that murderous canine cats ruled dog stroll. Alleged until proven otherwise. We'll get to it. So it all started when Mr. McMillan's neighbors, the Ingalls family filed a complaint after their cats were killed.

They claimed that Dormy had rampaged into their yard, confronted Sunbeam, and instigated a fight that led to four deaths. McMillan responded to the complaint by arguing that Dormy had a license, and that gave him the right to roam the general area. Because dogs don't recognize the human concept of land ownership and borders, any trespassing claims were ridiculous. And the cats were unlicensed. So. Whatever that means, he never instructed Dormie to attack, so it doesn't fucking count. Also, the cats obviously started it. Also, get good.

the cats obviously started it. Also, get good at fighting. Okay. So after hearing the two sides, local authorities issued a fine for Macmillan and ordered Dormy to be euthanized. Rather than accept that punishment, Macmillan hired a defense attorney and they insisted on a jury trial.

Oh, please tell me it was a jury of his peers, please. There's no rule that says, yeah. Man, that trial was going to be rough. So San Francisco court system had, well, no idea how anything works in the universe. And they agreed to grant a criminal trial for a dog with 12 human beings as the extremely illegal jury of non-Pierce law. Ah, damn it to hell. And immediately, newspapers all over the country

started covering this absurd story. The Stockton Daily Evening Record interviewed defense attorney James Brennan, who told them, quote, the ordinance under which this case is brought is ridiculous. We expect not only to save Dormy, but to attack this law. And we will protest against women on the jury as they women are notorious cat fanciers.

Oh, really? End quote. And your number nine, it says here that you are, well, a woman, a fact somewhat contradicted by your wearing of trouser pants in court today. Now if it pleases the court, the juror will reveal her vagina or excuse herself from service in the serious matter of dog recap. I've been saying it for years. Dogs are sexists. OK, I don't think Tom meant to do that, but that was like almost word for word, a

quote from like the actual case. So before the trial even started, both James Brennan, the defense attorney and prosecuting attorney John Orcutt made the whole thing as theatrical as possible. Brennan started rallying local support, which included neighborhood kids who all loved Dormie because he was delightful, and they started crowdfunding pennies from their piggy banks to help support the defense. Meanwhile, Orcutt told the press that two of the deceased alleged victims would be exhumed in order to present the cat bodies as forensic evidence. Cool.

That sounds like a healthy bit of catharsis for all the parties involved. Wow. All right. I cannot help but notice the similarities between the murder dogs, defense funding strategy and Donald Trump's. They are a little similar. So similar. They are identical.

If they start selling baseball cards with the dog dressed as a cowboy. Also, side note, the trial of Dormie happened immediately after another high profile criminal trial in San Francisco. That would be the first of three trials of Roscoe, Faddy, Arbuckle. OK, famous actor of the time who was charged with the rape and murder of Virginia Rapp. That case ended in a mistrial followed by a second mistrial and then a not guilty verdict in Arbuckle's third and final trial. Legal historians are somewhat divided about that outcome, but he was so very clearly guilty if you just fucking think about it with your eyes for five seconds regardless

Media coverage of the dormy trial was heavily amplified with newspapers covering the dormy case as a satire Of the our buckle case fatty our buckle wouldn't that be a whimsical tale we could relate our podcast, huh? Okay, where's the button we use to kill the sketch? Useful button sometimes. So after the story circulated in the media, dog people and cat people started feuding back and forth in op-ed sections all over the country. For example, Mrs. Frank R. De Castro, president of the San Francisco Cat Club, wrote the following, quote, Sunbeam was cut off in her prime of cat hood.

She was but eight years old. The ordinary cat dies between eight and 12 years, but Persians live to be about 19 sick. That's a lie. They don't. A Persian cat at the age of eight is peaceable and dignified. She keeps her thoughts to herself and is happy when not interfered with." Sure.

End quote. Maybe she thinks about other cats from time to time, but that kind of thing isn't natural. She puts those thoughts away. I'm sorry, what the fuck is a cat club? What is that? I imagine a new member comes in, everybody scatters and hides behind the furniture To greet him So yeah, that was some very obvious lying by mrs. DeCastro about lifespan and that's why mr. AX courtier president of the Pacific Coast dog fanciers association

Had no choice but to respond, writing, quote, We deny that Aridales individually or as a breed have an intent to injure cats. Their history is brimful of chivalrous acts towards weaker animals, cats in particular. End quote. But wait, you're thinking, was there a notable example of that? Sure. The fuck was maybe you've heard of the universally beloved president, Warren G Harding. Yeah, maybe, maybe heard of him. According to Mr. Dick Cortia, president Harding had an Aridale terrier named laddie boy and laddie boys, brother Rowdy famously befriended the cat of United

States District Attorney at the time John T. Williams befriended that cat. He's gonna tell us that being a dog is a dangerous job. It can be. 13th most dangerous job. It can be. So the trial began on December 21st, 1921 with Judge Lyle T. Jacks presiding. The defense started with an emphatically of not guilty on behalf of Dormie, the beloved neighborhood dog who was loved by all the children loved. Brennan then spoke to the jury and introduced a very important concept called irresistible impulse. He argued that if Dormy was guilty, which clearly was not, but even if he was, that's because dogs have an irresistible

impulse to attack cats and you can't prosecute impulsive behavior. So from there it was the prosecution's turn. They didn't really need much of a strategy. Orcut called several witnesses who insisted that Dormie had killed their cats, and they watched it. That included a neighbor named F.L. Stone, who claimed that Dormie not only did one of the alleged murders, but that Dormie was also guilty of attempted murder of other cats. That's when Brennan objected, saying, you don't know what was in that dog's mind.

And Mr. Stone responded by saying, yeah, but Dormy chased my other cat into the wood pile. And that's nothing. So shadows of doubt began to arise. And also what was the cat wearing when he chased it into the wood pile? This is all you keep quoting from the case. Another witness for the prosecution was Mrs. L.

Norris who only made it worse for the case against Dormy by admitting to her own very literal attempted murder. She said quote Dormy was a public nuisance. He ran out and snapped at automobiles that passed. We tried to run him over and we're sorry we did not." I wonder why he hated cars. And that brings us to the, you're damn right I ordered the code red moment of the entire case. The key witness for the prosecution was Marjorie Ingalls, the neighbor who testified

that she personally witnessed the murder of Sunbeam and her other three cats by Dormie. Case closed, right? Wrong. Brennan was ready for this on cross-examination. This is my favorite part. He brought in a parade of different dog breeds to create a canine lineup. And he made Mrs. Ingalls try to identify which one was Dormie. She did not succeed. Could have been just about any dog that did those murders That lawyer would go on to change their name to Saul good Dormy walks out of the courtroom his limp disappears slowly whatever From there we got the closing arguments.

For the prosecution, Orcutt just said, like, come on, come on, this is ridiculous. And also, ignore the murder lady with the car, I don't know why I called her, not very effective from Orcutt. But Brennan was still rolling, he put the icing on the cake by adding the part that every dog person was already thinking. He explained that dogs are famously loyal to humans, and cats are, quote, possessed of ingratitude. Fuck that guy in the face. Yes. Oh, you really see something? I'll go up and smush my dog as much as I want right now.

If you stand in the same room as your cats for too long, they walk through your nightmares and give you a sex dream about a toaster. You told me that. You me you think you think I can't smoosh peekaboo I'll fucking smoosh peekaboo right now my face right now he does it he loves it my cats like me more than your dog likes you stupid dog because they've seen all your past and future lives. Stupid dog. His big stupid face and his breathing problem. All of them, they like all of the people.

That's irrelevant that Eli's particular dog is unethical. Misgendering, misgendering, objection. Thank you. So the jury was out for only 20 minutes and they came back to report a majority in favor of acquittal for Dormie. Yes. Dormie is our OJ.

Exactly. No? What? So, according to one source, they had seven people voting to acquit and five voting to convict. According to another source, it was 11 for acquittal and only one for conviction. Either way, it was undecided and Brennan made a motion for dismissal that was granted by the judge. Dormie was set free and this set a very important legal precedent.

If a dog gets put on trial for a crime in the human court system, prosecution needs to prove that it was definitely that specific dog who did it. The case also implied that cats without a license have basically no rights at all. So in the end, Normie went home and played with all those many children who all very much loved him. He would go on to lick many arms for way too long for no reason and push his face into small areas in delightful fashion and do many many zoomies I Kill a bunch of more cats to murder. Yeah, right play some golf. There's a murder

Speed chase and a Bronco. Yeah ridiculous write a book about if you did it, right? Alright, so if you had to catch the dog who did it. Yeah, right. It's somebody's thought there So if you had to summarize what you've learned in one sentence heath, what would it be dogs are the greatest of God's creations also Dormy definitely did some murdering. Yeah Yep. All right. Well here you are failing the quiz before it even started not the greatest and there are no creations of God You're Heath. You're you're 0 in 1 going in. You ready to do better? Dogs are the greatest of God's creations. I'll repeat it as we finish the essay. Every sovereign. All right, interesting. There are many. Dogs? Go ahead. All right, Heath, there are many unanswered questions about Dormy's trial. What should we call our true crime podcast about the case?

A anatomy of a fur there. What? What? Madder murder. Murder. Yeah. Why would you do that? Her further. Yeah. You want to take a gun? No. Who let the dogs out? What? See my favorite girder.

Okay, come on. You can't do this. The same thing. I had to, I had to all the true glass, but listen to this last one. Listen to it. You'll know. Look at his D look at his little ears. Cereal. What is happening? Because one word ended with an S and the other one started with an S? What's happening right now? It's a pun. You're not used to that one. Alright, see you still on Ready for the Quiz. Do you have a question? Sure. Let's fire up the quiz. So here we go. So Keith, the dog's lawyer, only won because of the legal aid that was

on the defense team. What was the name of that future famous lawyer a thorough good boy Marshall the droopy Giuliani see Johnny Cochran Sonia Toto Mayor or exactly Basanji Hound Jackson. Oh those are all so good! So hard to decide. But I think my favorite is Sonia Toto. Yeah, Sonia Toto Mayor. Correct, correct. Sonia Toto Mayor. Excellent.

All right, he's like, I used to worry that American politics and our court systems had fallen into a nadir of unserious fools jabbering about and trolling each other with nonsense while the world burns around us. This essay has… A. Weirdly helped. B. Weirdly not helped. C. Maybe all that is old is actually new again.

D. That definitely did not help. No, I don't know. It's e all the above. Is that even possible? Yeah, okay. Why not? No Tom is taking his first win in quite some time in the quiz. Congrats Tom Who's gonna be the SAS next week? That is going to be Eli Eli Bosnia see that's why we don't let you win Tom Different name. Yeah So Tom Eli and I'm no one thanking you for hanging out with us today We're gonna be back next week

Goodbye, then Eli will be an expert on something else between now and then you can hear more from Tom and Cecil and cognitive dissonance The podcast not the uncomfortable mental state are actually both I guess and I podcast, not the uncomfortable mental state. Or actually both, I guess. And you can hear more from Keith, Eli, and me on God awful movies. And we all do other stuff too. If you'd like to help keep this show going, you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash citation pod, where you'll get before show shenanigans, or you can leave a five star review everywhere you can, or you can do both. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect with us on social media or check the show notes, be sure to check out citation pod.com.

Which is why you'll see that my client is squeaky clean of this murder. Okay, so you just do like mouse puns for every case, huh? Oh, yeah, you know, it's kind of a thing. Got it. Yeah. Good to know. Let's wait.