Citation Needed - The Donner Party

Episode Date: July 19, 2017

The Donner Party, or Donner-Reed Party, was a group of American pioneersled by George Donner and James F. Reed who set out for California in a wagon train in May 1846. They were delayed by a series of mishaps and mistakes, and spent the winter of 1846–47 snowbound in the Sierra Nevada. Some of the pioneers resorted to cannibalism to survive. Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

Okay, this is taking way too long. I am so hungry. One final vote. How many people for first? Well, I was. Okay, okay. All I want is 35, 36, 37. That's 37 for the first. Now, how many people for last? That's not good. You got the gross. All right. Okay. Hold on. This is one of five, 36, 37. That's 37 for last. Again. What the fuck? Someone is not voting here. Sorry. What? I missed it. You guys have read a dick so good. Okay, well, I guess that sounds it. Ugh, so good. Hello and welcome to Citation Needed, the podcast where we choose to subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet

and that's how it works now. Damn, wouldn't easy sentence to say. I'm the illusion. I will be your Sherpa this week, but don't worry, like any good Sherpa, I brought some asses to do the heavy lifting. First up, please put your hands together for two men who could supply the world's wool needs with their excess beard, shed and the world's power needs with their right hands, the sea, so land, heath. with their excess beard, shed, and the world's power needs with their right hands, Cecil and Heath.

You know what I've been doing recently? Inside of the elbow. I'm an elbow crease. I know, I'm an elbow crease. I've been maddened up my beard, shed, and pretending on the 70s porn. We have so much fun together. Well, that's friends forever, Cecil.

I'm very sorry. My. And for our next Ask to Ask grouping, please welcome Cecil's other best friend, Tom, and Cecil's fourth to last best acquaintance, Eli. The problem asked the ask with Eli is he sticks to you like a strangely slimy velcro. Not sure how that even works. It's called anal discharge, Tom, and one out of four Americans suffer from it. So good luck. Good luck. Right when we were about to go on a road trip all together. Two not anymore. All right. Well, before we get started, I want to thank all the folks

that keep the lights on without your financial support. We would be podcasting in the dark. And then we would have to tie a bell around Eli's dick just to feel safe. Anyway, if you like the word, I'd join their ranks, be sure to stick around to the end of the show. And with that out of the way, tell us, Tom, what person plays think concept phenomenon or event will we be talking about today? Today, we'll be talking about the Donner party. Awesome. Nobody likes a good party more than me.

So Heath, you absolutely devoured this article. Are you ready to regurgitate the important facts into our listeners, eager beaks? I am. I am. Okay. All right. There's a visual that went with that, guys, at home on Gank Alice, you just have to imagine that one.

I had a little bit of food in my mouth. Shoot it. Tell us, Heath, what was the Donner party? The Donner party or Donner Reed party was a group of pioneers from Illinois who decided they were moving their families to California using covered wagons, starting in the spring of 1846. And their trip went just about as badly as physically possible. Not everyone died, but arguably it would have been much better if they all had died.

Oh wow. And that's because, she spoilers, a bunch of them turned into cannibals by the end of the story, as many of you already know. Also the middle of the story, I want to point out by the middle of the story, maybe the end of the story and then turn it into cannabis. I don't want to contradict you so early, Heath, but I'm pretty sure that Donna Reed Party was a $12-a-ha head train- train fuck in 1949 after the it's a wonderful life money ran out

It's pretty famous in Hollywood circles Every time a train whistle blows a hobo has a money shot Definitely like a weird porn hub category it makes you happy. There's like no smell of it category it makes you happy there's like no smell of it. You just not you. All right, I'm stuck on this. This is going to bother me. A hobo has a money shot. Hey, there's a verb there, but it's not a hobo.

Some things a money shot. Send it in. What do you think a hobo wins? Wins a money. That's the hobo as the recipient, though. If the whole like he's playing crap, and it's like, and I got it. Do you say yachts eating crap? Yeah, no, no, it's the hobo was the recipient though if the whole like he's playing crap and it's like And I got it. Do you say yatsi and crap? Yeah, no, I'm glad you didn't say Nazi. I thought you said not and roll roll roll pick eyes

It's a back story and when I said it earlier that it went badly I only mean like For them badly for the people in the party. For me as a reader, it was actually great. And that's because these people were impossibly stupid, so they deserved everything that happened to them. It's pretty fantastic. The unexpected theme of this podcast. That's unexpected.

We would have called it rub it in if we that's that the verb the whole bow was thinking I'm a rub it in. Yeah, so that is important to remember though as we go this is a super fun tragic story and these people all deserve to they're basically

playing the Oregon trail computer game but with the elementary school kids like actually dying of yeah Hannibalism. We'll get there. Wow. The cyberbullying thing is really getting out of hand.

It's not bullying if I really did fuck his mom, Cecil. I'm just tweeting a fact. Okay. That's happening. But at my wedding, I'm just saying, if you don't want the culprit to use that way, you should have put up a sign, you mind. What's wrong?

Fuck. On your mind. Reads your mind. I'm just I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, You like just hitting his fork on a glass. Okay, and don't fuck my mom before we start and speech time Real quick if anyone here could not fuck my friends or my mom I'll take a strong 50. I'll take a strong 50. That's great. Oh Zero I forgot John's here. This is great This is fun glad dad's dead. Let's get that dance going, huh? Make you feel my love.

Fun times. All right, so quick background to start us off on this story. So back in the 1840s, lots of American families were moving out west. Some of them were looking to establish annoying cults like Catholicism. And others were just acting on the principle of manifest destiny. That's the idea that white people should kill the Native Americans and take their land because we came up with a fun two-word title that sounded better than kill them all and take their lives. Admittedly, natives were terrible at that game. We always won by the slaughter room.

Like to be fair though, we do have the best words. They came up with Oki-Fonoki. That's pretty fun. For some guy in a headdress just sitting on the subway, you tell him, brother Noah, you tell him. One tear rolling down his cheek. Listen to the show. The trip starts on April 14th, 1846. George Donner, his brother Jacob Donner and James Reed, all gathered up the families, put all their shit in a covered wagon and head out from Springfield, Illinois on their way

to Independence, Missouri, where the Oregon Trail begins. Along with their families, they also have some oxen, some teamsters to ride the oxen. I'm not sure. Ante cranks. Come on. I mean, it shovels to lean on too, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're very anti-union on this podcast. Yeah. And so the teamsters, yeah, they were with the teamsters and also two so-called servants,

it's head. And I don't want to smurch the name of these soon to be cannibals, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about slaves. I'm pretty sure that the servants were slaves. Well, that makes the game of it. Any, any, mindy mo much easier later on. Oh, I just got to say naming your slave, mindy is a little too on the nose for me. Maybe hours. See? No longer, you're busy. All right. So just to review, just to review, um, if these guys are planning to travel almost 2,500 miles in basically oversized Flintstone cars,

with a bunch of senior citizens and little kids. Here's the starting group. First up, we have George Donner, and he's a 60 year old man, gross, in 1846, which means like 180 now. Right, yeah. And he's got a 44 year old man in 1846, which means like 180 now. Right. Yeah. And he's got a 44 year old wife.

Grosser. So, so well, she's like 132. Right. And five kids ages 14, 12, 64 and three. Then in Jacob Donner's family, we have his wife and seven kids ranging from 14 years old down to one year old. Oh, Jesus. And finally, in James Reed's family, we have his wife, four more kids ages 13, eight, five, and three,

and his 70 year old mother-in-law who had tuberculosis. Best mother-in-law ever. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, she's got her own expiration. That's why. Yeah. Think you're forgetting Gilligan and the skipper too. So, so partridge and some kind of tree. Now pay attention boys and girls because that passenger manifest is going to double as a menu before this is all over. Everything is a menu if you dream. No, everything is a menu.

Most of what I dream of is off the menu, unfortunately. On there. So, also log of the party with the nine teamsters and two allegedly albino is what I read, slaves. Allegedly? Didn't want to jump to conclusions? Is that what we happened? Well, I don't know. It's in the fucking article. Whatever. It's 34 people to start things off Eventually, they linked up with a few more groups and ended up with a grand total of 87 people in the party and

48 of them made it to the end of the trail alive That's not good on and now without further ado'll begin the story of those other 39 stupid fucking people dying along with their shitty kids, yeah. Yeah, so the death streak doesn't take very long to get going. The party gets to the trailhead on May 10th and they do some final preparation for a couple days and they head out on May 12th. They roll into Kansas across the big blue river by building a raft. I would have caulked wagons, whatever. And then on, then on May 28th, the seven-year-old lady with

tuberculosis dies of tuberculosis. And again, best mother-in-law ever. So they bury her on the side of the trail. This would actually prove to be wasteful later on. But we'll get maybe not. I mean, once they get into their 60s, grandmothers get a little gaming after menopause, they get all dry. I could be just picturing a 70 year old lady dunking on Michael Jordan. Yeah, bitch. Gave me. I got gay. What team did Michael Jordan play for? The Chicago's. Here's full space jam.

Space jam. He was on space jam. Earth. He was on planet team Earth. You didn't say you got it. You played baseball. You did. You did. All true. And then you had that commercial bull nose. Why did they call him bull?

No, no, no. Was it was his nickname, bull? More than one black athlete. No, to you. Anyway, speaking of deadly airborne diseases on 2,500 mile road trips. China. Nope.

The daughters and reads met up with a bunch more travelers, including the Murphy family, the Brine family, and also just some kid named Luke Halleran, who according to the article, quote, seem to get sicker with, you guessed it, tuberculosis every day.

And was passed around from family to family and quonk. Jesus passing around kids. These were the Catholics you were talking about earlier, right? Who's asking what next? Here you go. This is weird because I think a lack of consumption is going to get some of these people too. I bet. A lack of consumption, right?

Mm-hmm. Or for commercial. Vision this whole train, right? Like quit hogging the tuberculosis kid as a thing someone said at some point. Ah! What? Oh, where's that spaghetti western, the tuberculosis kid?

Pfft. Pfft. Pfft. There's town ain't big enough for the both of us boy. I figured out Ain't damn man, are you okay? It's so cold and it was hot like 30 seconds ago Jesus, you know what man? I'm just I'm just gonna go you take care of you all right go you take care of you, all right? Riii! Riii!

Eelah, you did an amazing job sounding definitely ill. Just want to say. Thanks. Also, by the way, why are we letting Eelah call the doly-do's now? I can call a dude we did. I don't know, a dooly-do. Vito. Okay, so, um, now we're into June and the party's traveled about 450 miles.

This is when George Donner's wife, Tamsen, she named good name, Tamsen, wrote a letter to her friend back in Illinois. It said, quote, indeed, if I do not experience something far worse than I have yet done, I shall say the trouble is all in getting started. End quote. Before good loob, anal was difficult. I would paraphrase this here. What she's saying is, if this doesn't get any worse, we're past the worst part. Exactly.

Thanks for that, Tammy. Appreciate you, Claire. Now I want to be a list of fucking letters. Seems to be like after saying that, she just should you, Claire. Now one up. Moodyless fucking lettering. It's stupid. It seems to be like after saying that, she just should have knocked on some wood, like saved everybody a lot of shit, right? Like, it's like they just turned to her at the game.

Like, yeah, maybe next time I'm not gonna as a fucking wood, huh? Tamson could knock on my wood any time. I'll tell you what. She looked a hundred than 32, but in a good way, a good hundred than 30. Yeah. Yeah. She's still 20 years, you're junior. Yeah. She's a hundred and thirty two, but in a good way, a good hundred. Yeah. Just until 20 years, you're junior. She's a dry hot.

She's a dry hot. Absolutely. On with the story, and this is where we started getting some, especially dumb moves by this party. Like, Dumber than bringing Morgan with tuberculosis on a road trip from New York to Reason Con in North Carolina. This is where a guy named Lansford Hastings becomes part of the story. uh... like dumber than bringing morgan with tuberculosis on a road trip from newark to reason con in north carolina uh... this is where i named lanceford hastings becomes part of the story he's a pioneer who allegedly came

up with a super cool short cut to california uh... only adds about a hundred fifty miles to the trip and uh... yeah uh... ads and uh... he was sending around guys on horseback to deliver letters to travelers telling them to take his 150 mile longer shortcut. Well, the donors and reads got one of those letters on July 12th. I wonder what they'll do. Yeah, yeah, you can't miss it. You just follow the fork with a sign that says shortcut.

Try it above the sign that says short cut, try it above the sign that says fresh meat. Yeah, I can be wrong, but I think like if you're traveling by fucking covered wagon, if there's a shortcut that just ever gets found, that's just the cut. Just to reiterate the short cut called the Hastings cut off, which coincidentally is also what you call human shin bones stew. Well, it's because of this story, though. Yeah.

So the Hastings Cutoff actually added about 150 miles to the trip. And on top of that, a journalist named Edwin Bryant had gone ahead of the party and checked it out. And he noticed that the short co is a bad idea. So Bryant sent letters back to Blacks Fork where the Donner party was getting ready to pick a path, warning them against using the shortcut. Apparently those letters never got delivered to the party. And instead this other guy named Jim Bridger was like, Hey, I got this super cool fort,

but you won't get to see it unless you take that shortcut and I'll even let you buy stuff from me when you get it, huh? Our group of incredibly stupid people was like great. We'll just reroute our fucking Google maps. Let's go Tell it messed up though. They wound up mixing the apps up and these grub Yeah, they tell it messed up though. They wound up mixing the apps up in these grub hud and stuff. I've been there. I've been there. I mean, I didn't get to eat Chris Clouy, but I tried. He is. Take my vested interest in selling you shit, root said the guy just trying to help. Yeah. So the party just got done being tricked into taking a shortcut that adds mileage by a guy who sells shit along that shortcut.

So now it's August and they're rolling into the Wasatch Mountains of Utah, which obviously turned out to be a stupid move. Almost immediately they realized the train was terrible for the square wooden wheels. I'm assuming they bought from Jim Bridger. And moving so slow at this point, other wagon trains are basically lapping them and like dropping banana peels in their way. I checked the distance on this way. This is like a 17 hour drive. It took them three months. Right. Today we could literally roll there faster. And of us would die from old-timey diseases

along the way. None of us know of us. Do you have the summer complaint there? If you start the journey with Rickets, they don't count. Yeah. It's not from the journey. All right, so moving ahead to late August, at this point, some of the families are running out of food and everyone's arguing about the shortcut not working. And this is where we get death number two. On August 25th, the kid with tuberculosis, who they were

passing around like a dirty heroin needle apparently, and some dying of, wait for it, also tuberculosis. I mean, guys, at this point, they all shared his last breath for good luck or something. It was like shack on a TV into each other's mouths like no one heathed a damn after party. It doesn't get at all. Yep, and they do eat the roach. They're doing the roach. They do eat the roach, we'll get there. So, things aren't going great, and this is where they hit the great Salt Lake desert. And it turns out that riding wagons across dried up salt crust in scorching heat with no drinking water, not the best shortcut.

The heat during the day was making the leftover moisture from the dried up lake rise to the surface and turn the salt into like just corrosive gum. Apparently their cattle weren't tied up. The cattle were just on the fucking honor system. So I was just ran away at this point. They're lucky it didn't turn into a full blown moot knee. Oh, moot, tinny. Shit, tits.

Yeah, what about your cowards? Fucking ass. They've probably got set free by like a cattle angel in a case of bovine interventions. Oh, there you go. Dic cheese and wet. Sino-dic cheese, just pulsing. You know, what is wrong with you?

What do you say? I will not be Garrison Keeler. What? Garrison Keeler. Not worth $5 million. What is wrong with you? What do you say? I will not be garrison killer Garrison killer not worth five million dollars. I'd suck dick on TV at Lake Wobbogon for five million dollars Right now that's a standing offer. I mean that Garrison killer just making a rain on you five million dollars Five million dollars. I'll swallow that shit I'll fucking gargle it I don't give a fuck I always wondered if this would be the way I'd find my nut he's so boring and not funny. Five million dollars.

There was the dairy home companion. Anyway, make them muslims. Nicely done. Terrorism. All right, so the party finally made it through the rest of the Hastings cutoff and link back up with the standard trail again around the end of September. Short cut delayed them by about a month.

And that brings us to death number three, which was also murder number one. Oh, is there a home game? I feel like I should be playing like a pen on something or well, it happens with a rope kind of like clue. Um, it involves rope. Anyway, it happened when two wagons got tangled. And one guy named John Snyder started flogging one of James Reed's oxen with a whip. And when when Reed got, got bad on behalf of the oxen, I guess it's an I just started whipping a read at which point read stabbed him in the neck with a knife.

But he wasn't Muslim, so nobody cares. It was just a random tragedy. These things happen. What are you going to do? It's a lone wolf. No. So the stabbing thing got read banished from the party at this point. Did he get to at least keep the guy he begged?

He seems like that should be a rule. I maybe it was over the limit to be a white people 10. No, we're harder to get. They're way harder to get. Open season on the brown ones. Just saying, still going, still open season. All right. Now we're in October and everyone knows they're way behind the pace. If they want to get over the Sierra mountains before the snow gets all crazy. Also,

food is running out for all the people and grass is running out for all the cattle. So pretty much everyone is just walking along next to a bunch of oxen that look like Somali pirate summer's doing This is where an older guy named hardcoop just just got tired of walking and He just sat down to die While everyone walked past him awkward They just sat a ball of Saracha ranch next to him and everyone treated him like a blue man onion, you know. So they got a stomach ache and later terrible gas.

They sent him back. It was actually hard poop. It was the name. Not after a blue man' on you, my friend. Not for a week after a bloomin' on you. He ate that fucking thing, it's like still bloomin'. Like, what the fuck? I needed to stop bloomin'.

How can a multiply like this? Swirling like a hot air balloon. Well I'm excited for Australia. I personally, I'm with the guy named after the Mario Villain hip hop remix though because like honestly, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm point if death had been an option I'd have taken it. Crying fucking babies on both sides of me. If I could have just stepped out of the air please sat down. I would have been fine with that. Yeah, Chip Blue, up your game. Blue potato chips, cookies, death. Sorry, can you wake the woman next to you? Do she want to die? Do she want to die? Do you see if she wants to die? It's Ann Coulter. Yes, yes, she definitely does. She's definitely. Are you sure she's not? No, that's just her face. She's anorexic. I think someone started eating half of it. So they, uh, they've either reached the last set of mountains in late October. And this is where they had to decide on either resting the cattle or

going straight through right away. And that's when a guy named William Foster started loading a gun and accidentally shot another guy in the face, named William Pike. And this actually happened despite just about everyone carrying a gun. It was weird. I don't know how they didn't all save everyone from getting shot by guns. Anyway, this is a sign. They took this is a sign that they should keep going without any rest. No, we are man. Newt that Channy was old, but not like Donner party. Well played with the crazy bastard. Well, now we know one of them that makes it out anyway. Far be it from us. The wind up making his same mistakes as the downer party.

So we are going to stop for a rest at this point on like those dumb asses. And when we come back, I'm sure somebody will have died a Quincy or the black water fever or something. Somebody know somebody. Yeah, it meant someone in this story, yeah. So what? We should go through the Hastings cutoff. I think it's probably the quickest. No, brother Eli, that adds over a hundred miles to the trip. Let's go to a huge convenience store. Come on, it's the last place I'll be able to get vegan cheese on the way home.

No, frankly, we've been catering to you this whole expedition. You have not. We were only able to get a mile a day because you have two wagons full of granite countertops. I can only prepare food on granite. It's a vegan thing. You wouldn't understand. I'll have eight different colors of the same countertop. I have no idea what color the wood is going to be in California.

How can I bring the right shade countertop? Don't be ridiculous! Your pug has his own wagon. Match needs her space. So let her walk alongside the wagon. She's afraid of the outside. You know she's afraid of the outside. You have another whole wagon dedicated to your collectible.

Cecil, you tell me how I'm supposed to transport 905 pet rocks, 381 fidget spinners, and 468 mint condition beany babies across the country 60 years before UPS? I'm only S. We traded in all our oxen for goats in Kansas City because you were allergic. We switched from whales to slave runners because you couldn't stand the squeaking sound of the wagons. You've instituted mandatory bathroom breaks every 26 minutes because of your spastic colon. No, we are not doing this. Okay, fine, but I have no idea where I'm going to get mangers

for the vegan carne asada tacos. I have literally all the other ingredients for so enjoy lunch Can't believe we're stranded out here. I mean I believe it fuck this sucks guys We've got to do something. We're all gonna starve to death. We're gonna have to eat someone We gotta do something. We're all gonna starve to death. We're gonna have to eat someone. Do you know what? Oh, come on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no You're the muscle yes, we get the most meat for the murder. He's like free Noah's at least I have children

Do you Yeah, I pay for a lot of children. What are their names? Want to say Kyle is a Kyle's not exactly this is not a child's situation, okay? No, I still have him look why not he He's tall. I'm pretty sure it'd be agreeable. It looks very well marble. No, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, whatever everyone else decides is fine. That's cool. See? Okay, guys, we're obviously ignoring one major factor. And that is? Well, if we kill any Eli, he won't be here anymore. And, you know, I mean, yep.

Good point, yeah, okay. But, but I wanna get murdered by my best friend. Happy to be the one, but I want my best friend to do it. Okay, let's eat Tom. Our sketchers are crazy murdery, aren't they? And we're back when we last left our idiots. They were interpreting an accidental gun death as a good omen for the rest of the trip apparently. Apparently not resting the horses was because they thought that was good luck.

Now like fuck let's get out of here fast. This shit is cursed. Really? Yep. That's right. And this is where it starts getting really fun. Your definition of fun scares the fuck out of me, but okay. This is the guy who wants to go camping in Australia.

I pulled human flesh tastes like bacon. I want to know for sure. So the party starts rolling into the mountains and they get to trucky lake on the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada. And as is off in the case, when you're 6,000 feet above sea level in November, there is a shitload of snow. And they all have to stop the train and set up winter camp. At least sexy camp counselors of all time. You're into fat camp, Tom. I say camp counselors.

You ever been to fat camp, Tom? This camp's like the opposite. Yeah. So this large group of mostly sticky little kids and old people with no skills, managed to put together a few leaky log cabins and some tents to live in until the snow clears up in the mountains. And they seem to be unaware that April or May

of the next year is when that was. Yeah, right. Right. I, I, I, I give it the median age of the surviving members, though, I guess they should be happy to have anything other than cushion for it. So I gotta say I'm impressed. Like they slept together some log cabins. Like I drink myself or tarted trying to put together an Ikea TV stand and they're banging

out and I'm sick of log cabin. And we're criticizing a more show log cabin guys. Yeah. So this is where the food situation starts getting really desperate. Finally. And lots of the cattle are getting stuck in the snow. And it's also when the families with some food left start price-gouging the families with none left. Okay, just to be clear, they were making deals for money to be paid when they get to the end of the trail.

So pretty much everyone loses on these. It wasn't like they were smart price-gouging. It was just everybody's job. They're just trading like entire briefcases full of IOUs to each other. Well, at least it was the free market. Can you imagine how terrible it would have been if the government had stepped in? At some point, don't you feel stupid when everyone else brought their gym baker food bucket, you're just wandering around, trying to trade promises for self-bation.

Fuck. No way. That's the thing. for salvation. Fuck. No way. Definitely. The thing. Yeah, so nothing's working out. Two more people die and the party decides to send out a group of 17 people with snowshoes to walk ahead and look for help to bring back this expedition would later be called the Forlorn Hope.

And it doesn't go well. It doesn't go well. It doesn't go well. What title is like she can really make or break a rescue party? You know, which is one guy. Are we sure we want to go with four-learn hope? We already decided, Neil, we agreed on four-learn hope. Said we'd do it. Alright, so, yeah, part of the problem with the four-learn hope party was that they couldn't count to fucking

17 correctly and only packed 15 sets of sto-shoes for 17 people. Also, they did not, they didn't know what a camp in giant piles of snow and they didn't know about snow blindness. So they're all pretty much blind by day three. Literally, these people could not see three days into this. Yeah, but the blind ones are a lot easier to catch an eith though. Oh, so fun fact, that's how Helen Keller died. No, just a blind eating the blind porn, but hot.

It's hot. You know, little neat. All right. And now it is cannibal time. Get excited. Who called it? Who called it? All my stomach is growling.

Jonathan Swift, he called it. So they're all sitting there without eyesight just to be clear. And one guy is like, so many should volunteer to die so we can eat. So they start arguing about how to decide on who dies and among the ideas were a lottery walking until someone literally falls down first and then eating that person. And also this one is my favorite dueling. I've had any ideas. Which couldn't yield two people though. You know what I mean?

Like a proper duel could yield two. They have a bad, they have an odd number of people. If you have 17 people, do they all do it like in groups? No, like one guy just stands there like I'll call it. Yeah, I'll just call it. I got winner. It's a tournament of blind people dueling with their proposal.

So around Robin of blind people shooting each other, because that would make sense. But before they could decide which of these things to do two people died from a duel. Two people died just normal allegedly. And yeah, like fucking died. They were the two without snow. Yeah, yeah. Fuck an exhaust. Very, very possible. I'm gonna keep up with the guys with snowshoes. Yep. And then a third one just started yelling nonsense, stripped off all his clothes,

ran into the woods, ran back, and also died. You see the libos next door, right? You know, I've been on enough Twitter arguments to know that even after that happened, So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb.

So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb.

So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. So dumb. Can you make an argument and address my points? 140 characters at a time, politely.

You know, if there's snow blind, can we still mock them for being snowflakes? Or is that now a bad thing? I'm still willing to do it. So now they've got some corpses and a few of the survivors start eating the guy who ran around naked. Good dress is obviously the first one you got. Dominion. He's unwrapped.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So by the next morning, everyone was on board with the eating, everyone who hadn't started eating the naked guy to begin with. So they cut up all the bodies and made a little ice box of human flesh.

I guess they labeled each pile of human flesh because they wanted to make sure nobody would eat their own family member by accident. You want to be fucking civilized. And thus the New York Times best seller that consider it cannibal is born by my own unopeless. But these are blind guys, right? I just want to, how are they labeling? Did someone bring a Braille corpse marker? Is that pile one clapper or two claps? Which pile is that? That y'all feel real silly now, making fun of my Braille Corpse marker when I brought it. You all say we're not going to need that, but now you're not eating your dad.

So you're welcome. Pass the foot. All right. So what are the fun detail about this snow shoe party? After a few days of eating each other and several more deaths, two of the women got disgusted now. This is the reasonable time to get disgusted.

And they were like, all right, fucking stop it, no more eating people, that was enough. So they went out hunting for animals and they managed to shoot a deer. It's the first time they considered saving animals. Yep. And so not to go out managed to shoot a deer. It's the first time they consider saving animals. Yep. And so now they go out, they shoot a deer, but when they come back to camp, everyone else was already eating the next guy.

And they're like, the deer Jesus. The most awkward pizza bagels commercial ever, just what are you kids doing? I don't know, like what do you pair with snow corpse? Like I'm guessing it's an ice wine, but I sold for deer blood. By the way, I mean, I'd say I would insist on deer blood. I would go deer blood. I think at this point, you got to go full mad and stuff the guy in the deer carcass and roast the whole thing. Yeah.

Yeah. That's how you got to do it. So as you might have guessed, the four-learn hope team didn't manage to save the day. But the same as the state. No. I think a couple made it out, but yeah, it didn't work out for any of that. But that didn't work out. But the party did have an unlikely lifeline. If you'll remember, James Reed, the guy they banished from the party for stabbing a guy,

actually made it through the mountains by himself and got to Sutter's fort at the end of the trail. And that's where he met an army colonel named John Fremont and Reed agreed to become a soldier in Fremont's outfit if Framont would organize a rescue party for. Well, T.I. Bill back then was really weird. It's a super weird thing. Why? Covered a lot more though.

Covered a lot more. Yeah, can you imagine thinking that joining the military would save your starving family today? Crazy. And then this is for you and just for while you're here. That's... I think if I stabbed a guy and then I survived banishment and I trek through the snow and the only people who knew that I was a murderer were eating each other in the mountains like call me crazy, but I'm not about to enjoy

the army to save them. You fucking kidding me. Okay guys, I don't know. Fine, I'm not a murderer. Yeah, really, I mean, he was probably just going back for his family and hopefully to kill everyone else. So yeah, to be fair, that was definitely what was on his mind. But so here's what's going on right now in California. The Mexican American war was happening and it wasn't very easy to get a big crew together for the rescue. But in late January of 1847, two local newspapers ended up reporting on the cannibalism

of the snowshoe party and this ended up drumming up some sympathy and somehow read managed to, I don't know, set up a go fund me and he raised the $1,300, which is like $35 grand right now. And they put together a relief team. The story seems to be missing some crucial details. You're the Mexican American war is still happening, right? That's like, I pay attention to the news. It's still ongoing.

Who's winning? Are we winning? This is all after is failed into go-go that was like that for the human size pressure cooker. What, my buddy back on that. Oh, the missing details are like, how the fuck did the newspaper know about this, right? I mean, they were all eating each other. They did one of the renegade cows telling about it. I hear the story was moving.

Fucking damn it all the hell, you got me doing it now. Shit. I can't receive any more. Come to the way. Whoa, but God, motherfucker. Get on your knees. fucking damn it all the hell you got me doing it now Fucker I want you blow up by the time we're done I'm gonna tell unfunny stories for baby boomers to listen to in their cars Wanting something to put on behind a professor's party. All right, back to the story. On February 4th, a rescue team headed back toward Trucky Lake, and on the 18th, they arrived at the Donner party camp.

According to the accounts from the rescue team, the whole place smelled like death. The survivors had mostly gone completely insane. And everyone was obviously on the edge of starvation. So they handed out very small amounts of food to everyone when they got there, worried that eating too much really fast would kill them, which that would have made me fucking furious. A goddamn trisket at that point. Are you serious?

I mean, to be fair, you punched a jet bluestuortist for only giving you three bags of cheesets, so like you're... I am for God. I'm with you. That seems a fair and rational response to it. Obviously, a gregious moral insult. What else did you have done? What are you gonna land then tweet about it? Yeah. So there were 56 people still live in the camp and the rescue team was able to bring 23

with them, promised to come back with another relief squad to bring everyone else. Unfortunately, not everyone made it all the way back out of the mountains alive with the rescue team. That includes Jacob Donner's stepson who did make it to a rescue camp along the way, but he broke into their food store and gorged himself to death on food. Trace, good thing this one. I feel like there's a cautionary tale in there for at least three of the five of us, maybe even four. I just think that's beautiful. They should carve his face on a mountain.

That's just beautiful. It's fucking beautiful. So from there, the remaining survivors kept going and finally made it to Sutter's Fort, California. And according to James Reads' daughter, Virginia, one of the soldiers at the Fort proposed to her when they arrived. Now just for the record, she was 12 years old at the time and almost dead from starvation.

She's a good, important lesson about the ideal female body that men are looking for. Oh fuck. Fuck. Thigh gap, a lot of Thigh gap. The ring just keeps sliding off. Like, do they make rings in a size zero? No.

No. She's 12, but admittedly, an almost star of 12 year old can pass for 14. Whoa, guys, seriously, some stuff we don't joke about inappropriate. Wow. Come on. Good, clean, fun show. Two votes. Two votes. He is turning into Garrison killer. Damn. Yeah. So the second rescue party arrived at Truckee Lake on March 1st and apparently should have gone downhill quickly at the camp despite the knowledge that more help was on the way. When the rescue team first showed up, they saw one of the campers carrying a human leg. And when they shouted, hello, awkwardly, he literally threw the leg into a hole in

the snow like a kid getting caught with a joint by his parents. Chess is the right. We don't even better be just trying to jam the whole thing as mouth. Pulls out the mouth. I don't know how to do that. Coffs and a toenail pops out. Later his dad made him eat the whole thing to teach him a lesson. I'm so I don't feel good anymore.

And then inside Jacob Donner's tent, they found his starving wife barely alive and five fat little happy kids eating their dad's heart and liver. Jesus Christ. They also found three other dead bodies with all the meat gone, throwing in a pile like finished buffalo wings, so that was one of this. Trick is to get all the meat. Sharedy on those kids first day a kindergarten was weird Frongs

Are kids they couldn't tell a story good So the the second relief party took 17 more people from the camp, leaving only about 10 people behind, including Georgian, Tamson, Donner, along with three of their kids. I guess they really wanted their name to be first billed on this Wikipedia. It's a weird, weird choice. It's like the 19th century equivalent of shooting your boyfriend through a book on YouTube. Okay, like seriously, like at this point, like, what wouldn't you do to be part of the rescue group? Right? Right.

What would you eat? At this point, there's now so many chavinos, my followers. You were going to take your shopping jay gosh now. All right. So we're almost to the end of the story, but there's still a few critical boxes. We haven't checked yet. Most importantly, the parents eating babies check box, but don't worry. Here it comes.

Atheism for the win. Damn right. As the third and final rescue team was heading to Truckee Lake, they passed a group of the second wave heading out of the mountains. This included 11 survivors, including a mother and her one year old baby, plus the corpses of her two other little kids looking like partially eaten apples. Okay, but to be fair, I'd rather eat a 19th century child than an apple. Have you tried that? Gum start bleeding. It's a horror.

What? They just ate the whole fucking thing before you take a bite out of the next one like Do we have to open every kid in the fucking cupboard? Seriously finish the first one that get another Hungry ridiculous I get it. I want milk chocolate and dark chocolate. That's fine.

Then you're gonna forget. And I always eat my leftovers. No, I'm gonna drag this fucking tinfoil swan halfway across New York City. And then in nine months, I'm gonna get in a fist fight with it on its way to the fucking kitchen garbage. Now, you can eat your food now and then we throw it away and rats in the homeless can eat the rest. That's how it works in this part of hell we inhabit. It's a funny story.

All right. So, final, final chapter. The third relief team was led by William Eddie of the original party, hoping to rescue his kid. But when he arrived at the camp on March 14th, he was greeted by a guy named Lewis Keesberg who was like, dude, yeah, really sorry, ate your kid. Which, it's like a weird, it just seems a little tactless.

Anyway, yeah, say it right away. I feel like you would build up to it or something. He just like, weird, it just seems a little tactless. Anyway, say it right away. I would just like, I feel like you would build up to it or something. He just like fucking said it. Like eight year kid. Anyway, the final crew took all the people who were capable of hiking and left, except of course for Keysberg, who was super rude about announcing the ending. So obviously he was going to go, people always get so bitchy when you tell them that. I'm right.

At this point, they still have figured out like when they arrived, like how many like rescue things they were going to need to bring. This is like the cannibalism version of musical chairs. I don't know. You know, you didn't get a seat. Yeah, so no more rescue parties made it back to trucky lake and the remaining handful of people died, including George and Tams and Donner. Eventually in April, a salvage team made it up there hoping to recover any items of value

and sell them to help support the orphan kids who survived. Well, if you can't rescue them, rob their corpses. The romance of the West. What we need to do is make this country great again. Just a key. And one final twist on their way back, they found Lewis Keesburg alive and strangely well fed with a big cauldron of human flesh in his cabin. Nice.

Also, a whole bunch of the donors stuff and a big stash of money, but the salvage team took him along anyway. And on April 29th, 1847, Kiesberg became the final member of the Donner party to reach the end of the trail. He then went on to spend the rest of his life almost getting lynched by angry mobs of parents of kids, yay. And credits. Well, at all at one last observation, he had a cauldron, like, did it fit his carry on? Like, was it kid tested, daughter approved?

All right, Ethan, if you had to summarize what you've learned in one sentence, what would that sentence be? You can eat a baby like an apple, apparently, but it's best to go stem down like a bouse. He'd always think. Well, according to our precept, you now know as much about eating people as is possible without adding a horn, losing an eye and flying. So are you ready to face the panel?

I am ready. Okay. Heath. As you may have heard, they are actually making a movie about the Donner party. Oh, I had not heard this. That is because I made it up for this weird ending thing we do for our show. Good premise.

What, thank you. What is the upcoming title for the Donner party movie is it a The Oregon and trail The silence of the Sam's See the sequel cannibal questionable. D, very proud of this one, Garrison, hope you're listening. The nod father. I'm going to say A, the organ entree.

That is correct or not. It's not correct. It's correct. All right, Heath, so much attention is given to the Donner party being cannibals that everyone neglects, the humans were only part of a balanced breakfast. Which side dish was the most popular at Truckee Lake? a. Raisin Brad. Raisin. Be Riga Tony. I love it.

Shit tits. All right. See Johnny cake with Clara Fried Butter or D baby Ruth. Definitely D baby Ruth. Definitely. Absolutely was. She only had one bite out of her too. When they put her back.

She's still good. She's still good. All right, all right. I think I got what I can stump you with. When preparing to cook a human being, it's important that you not a do that. So that's a tempting one. B, bladged the Fava beans for more than a minute.

C, lean too far into the oven in your gingerbread house. Oh, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, is based on Maya Globen content, guys,

not ethnicity. There is no need to make this episode races too. Ooh, survived the last one. The slave was albino, so there's no reason to have anything in this episode. Good point. I wanted to say, I wanted to say C leaned too far into the oven in your gingerbread house.

I think it's A though. I think you were trying to trick me, and it's actually I don't even do that. Yes, I was trying to trick you by making eating human beings seem like a good idea. Yeah. You are correct. So thank God I live with you. That's correct. It is A.

Don't do that. All right. So eating someone properly is an important skill to learn. What have we learned from the Donner party's misadventures? Hey, don't eat too fast. Beat it. The ones who scream are the best ones to munch. See, when you think you're done, you've probably just started.

For me, strangely, you might need all day and never get full. This is not unusual. Oh, it's definitely D in my experience. No, it's totally too fast. You don't want to rush this thing. It's not a race. It's not a race. It's a marathon. Not a sprint. All right. Well, it looks like Tom was the first

to stump our expert this week. So he wins extra work for next week, just what he always wanted. But he also gets to make somebody else do even more work. So Tom, who do you choose for next week's presenter? I choose Noah because he's starting to look healthy and we can't have anything interrupt his Goulish figure. Goulish figure. All right, before we say things off, we're going to toss things over to Sarah for a quick update on our ongoing Twitter contest. Thanks Noah. Last week's question was, what were some other culturally insensitive characters Robinson tried

before settling on Chungling Su? And what tricks did he perform as that character? And the winner is Sam underscore Hain, at Sun of Sam Hain on Twitter, with Aberkadever, Arab Necromancer Ventriloquist extraordinaire. And this week's question is really an assignment. Write a hi-ko about the Donner Party. Hi-koos are poems of 17 syllables in three lines of 5, 7, and 5.

Retweet this episode on Twitter with your answer, or share it on Facebook with your answer, and you could be next week's winner. Back to you, fellas. Thanks, Sarah, and for Tom, Cecil Eli and Heath, I'm Noah, thank you for hanging out with us today. We'll be back next week and by then I'll know about some all new shit between now and then you can hear more from Eli, Heath and me on the scathing atheist, God off of movies. They have the scepticrat. And because producing three other shows is really hard, you can hear Tom and Cecil on cognitive dissonance. And if you'd like toance Help keep this show going you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash citation for a

Stock We think we're getting a CD soon we're considering a CD I'm much into big cigar over here Of course don't forget to leave us a five star review because we want a 401k too. And if you like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect with us on social media or check the show notes, be sure to check out citationpod.com. Also, in Stitcher's fault, we're not on Stitcher, not on.

Yes. No one's gonna let us know what our food's typing is, but we're to go. Numbers. You guys have read a dick so good. Okay, well, I guess that solves it. So good. Okay, well, I guess that solves it. So good. What?

Numbers. That's how people are gonna learn about our show, guys. That's like a foolish thing. New people, this is a thing. All right, honey, I'll check it out. If you have one takeaway. One takeaway. They said this was the accessible show. way. They said this was the accessible show.