Club Random with Bill Maher - Alan Ritchson | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: March 3, 2024

Bill and Alan Ritchson discuss his new movies, fame, family, how Alan got Reacher, mental health, Bill and Alan’s on set attitudes, Alan’s career ascension, how people with differing religious beliefs can get along, and much much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It strikes me as odd that someone would have religion on one in their life and also a psychiatrist. Club Randall. You're not like in the tabloids yet. You're going to be. Well, people don't want to talk about me. You're wrong. Trust me, you're wrong. Club Randall. Alan. I know.

You think I don't know who's coming? I barely do, by the way. I'm a newcomer to some people. You're very nice to meet you. You think I don't know who's coming? I barely do, by the way. I'm a newcomer to some people. You don't know? No, no, no, no. Oh, no. No, I see your show. I have to tell you, like, when you were coming over here, I was like, because they do a

million jokes, like, on how big you are. That's like, you know, which is funny. I love your show. It's very well written. It is. And you're great in it. I didn't say you could sit down. You want to sit?

Make yourself at home. No, that's my podcast. I was like, I gotta see this guy because like they make all these fucking jokes. Like is he really like insanely huge or is he just a big guy? And now I have my answer. I'm really not.

You know, you're just a big guy. A big guy. But you're not like, it's like a sauce quatchin. They have those, but it's big enough for the part. I'm kept humbled by people that come up to me and they're like, either you're way bigger than I thought you were or you're not nearly as big as I thought you were. I'll get both in the same day. I remember I met Bruce Smith.

Do you know football? Not really. He was like one of the best defensive ends, I guess, played for the Buffalo Bills who went to the Super Bowl like four years in a row, never won it, sadly, for them. But they were great. And he was like one of the best defensive players ever. And I met him, I was like, oh, wow, he's not that big. Right. You know, he's just good.

Right, yeah. And yeah, I was, there was a huge asterisk by this. This is a, I was never supposed to be a Reacher. They were trying very hard to find somebody who fit that iconic six foot five, 250 pound frame. What are you? Six three, and I was 205 pounds. I was like a marathon run.

I was like a jockey when I booked this thing, when they came at me. And so I had to put on weight for this role. It's hysterical to me that they cast in the movie and Tom Cruise who is known for using an Apple box. Oh, right. If he's in a scene with his kids. You know, he's like known to be a shrimp a little bit,

you know, on the short side. And not that I'm very tall, but I think I'm taller than him. But if you've written 10 books and you have the biggest star ever, saying they want to play your character, like you'd make a couple concessions. If you didn't bother me one bit, I'd never to play the character. Like you'd make a couple concessions. You'd bring out the Apple Box.

It didn't bother me one bit. I'd never heard of the book. Not a book I would read. Still haven't, I don't need to. Now I have the show. Yeah. You know, and I enjoyed the Tom Cruise movies. Tom Cruise is, you know, obviously the most reliable

movie star, like I can't think of a movie of his that bored me. None. None. Never. And many, many. Including the Reacher films. Including the Reacher films.

Yeah. It didn't bother, I didn't give a shit. It's a kick ass movie. I mean, I mean, they're not really, you know, maiming these people. Right. It's just good fun and, you know,

and everything you build around the action is important. I'm telling you, your show, I don't know who writes it, but they did a hell of a good job. Thank you, they do a good job. We got a good, there's a good, there's a room, there's a writer's room. Nick Santora, I would give credit for that. He's just incredibly talented.

Yeah. And has captured the tone in the levity of Reacher perfectly. Is that in the books? Totally. I couldn't believe how funny the books were when I read them. I thought it was just, yeah, I just thought it was like a, I thought it was pure action. I don't know, action and drama. And the character is funny and there's a lot of levity in the fact that he's so socially awkward is hilarious and it's disarming and actually he's quite articulate. I mean he has like lots of on this show he doesn't say much in the books. I thought I was I thought I was hitting the lottery because I was like I'm not gonna have to learn any lines and then I get a nine page monologue the first day and I'm like so so I'm delivering all the exposition I see I see

but it's fun and the way it's handled is it's uh yeah you know I mean I remember reading for parts and like you'd think you'd nailed it and then like you'd see you got it and they go okay that guy just was this right you know and that those you know there's no shame in that, that you're just this guy. Totally. And you are, right? It seems to be true for me right now. I mean, even like personality wise, you seem like the, I don't know,

I don't know anything about you, personal life, but am I wrong to guess that? You know, Reacher is much more stoic than I am. I love people so much. Really? That's why I'm here. I know. I just, I deeply love, I have an affection for people.

And you know, I'm a- I do too. I mean, I'm so blessed with so many, when you get older, you know, you collect people just the way you collect all the shit in this room and everything else in life. I don't mean that in a bad way. It's good.

Not at all. I would say I work with a psychiatrist. I just started working with a psychiatrist. For you? Yeah, for me. And the number one theme in this conversation is you have to plug in, like to put people in your life just to broaden your landscape because I'm so intensely private and so self-reliant

and such a lone wolf. That's richer than it just said to you. It is richer. So I was right. That is richer. But I'm gonna- Do you have a house? I don't.

No, oh. I just sold my house because I'm never there. I'm never there. So when you walk on the road, like, I just, I live out of like Airbnb's and stuff where I work. I mean, I have not had a day, other than the strike, I had not had a single weekend off in like two years.

I go from project to project with no time in between. I've just been very, a very good run. And I'm never home. And I like it that way. And I've got three kids and I've got a wife. And I've got three kids, and I've got a wife, and we all travel together, and we homeschool our kids. Oh, you like Richard, but he brings his kids on the road? Yeah, a little more than a toothbrush.

Yeah, I saw this trailer. They sent me the trailer, I guess it's not out yet, right, the movie, the World War II movie? Ministry of Unchained, yes, yes, yes. Now, for something like me, that looks really great because World War II, big World War II buff. Um, and... Had you heard of Enor's Lassen?

No. Or the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare? This is the... Is that a real thing? Declassified. This is Winston Churchill's brainchild. And these documents were just recently declassified and there was a book written about them. So this movie is loosely based on that book. Of course, it's Guy Ritchie, so it's got his spin on it.

But what's he like? Working with him was creatively the scariest. I noted the pause there. The air goes out of the room. So just to put it in context, from a performer's perspective, I am super intense with my work. So I'm playing this historical figure, Anders Lassen, World War II figure, who is part of the first Special Forces mission in history, essentially. And this is a Danish aristocrat in World War II who learned English from British aristocracy,

so a fine and muddled accent. I needed to prepare for this role. He's a marcher. Have you ever done an accent in a movie? Yeah, like, I've got a movie coming out tonight, actually. A Kentucky accent. You are busy. Busy boy.

Movie coming out tonight? Really? Just today. What's that movie? Ordinary Angels is also based on a true story. The headlines in the 90s were Snow Baby. This is about a father who loses his wife to a rare genetic disorder

and his daughter comes down with the same thing. And so he's in a fight, it's, you know, man-versed institutions and medicine and hospitals and debt and nature to try to save this little girl. It's a comedy. It's the funniest movie I think I've ever made. And Hilary Swank plays Sharon, this woman who's got... Love Hilary Swank.

She's incredible. She's incredible in the movie. Sharon in the story. She seems like a nice person. She's like... Hilary or Sharon? Yeah, Hilary Swank. She's wonderful, Hillary or Sharon? Yeah, Hillary's flank. She's wonderful.

Yeah. She's genuinely a very down-to-earth person and was so generous to take this space with me. I mean, I was, she didn't know who I was before doing this. And she was just told he's on the project and do you like the script? And she said she would do it. And there was a little apprehension I could tell when we met of this kind of, this air of like, you better be good, you know.

And the first thing that we did together, she grabbed me by the shoulder at the end, is a cut. I'm so glad you're doing this movie. Oh, that's great. It was so good. Yeah, so she was real sweet. And now we're, you know, we've been good friends.

So she's great, but she plays this character who is a town drunk and decides just on a whim to help this family. She sees a headline in the paper and decides I'm gonna move heaven and earth to help this little girl. Totally platonic, you know, a relationship between her and the father

and she helped save this girl. And you know, it's a very inspiring movie. You know, at the premiere, Lionsgate handed out Kleenex to everybody in the audience And it's a very inspiring movie. At the premiere, Lionsgate handed out Kleenex to everybody in the audience, and not one was dry at the end of the film. It's a beautiful movie, and wholesome and not fun for everybody. So that's in the theater? That's up today.

So I guess when people are seeing this a little bit now. I guess when we're going back to opening in the theaters, huh? We are, yeah, you know, thank God for Lionsgate. They're not only are they taking a swing at the theaters, there's Lionsgate, but they're taking a swing at original, you know, at either true stories or, you know, smaller impactful films or things like Ministry of Ungentally Warfare is also Lionsgate.

That's a high concept original piece of IP. So they're filling that very difficult space with that like between 20 and $70 million. They sell me on Lionsgate. I made a one movie, my movie called Religialist. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. I've seen it. Oh, okay.

It was great. It is great. I mean, Larry Charles, the brilliant director who did Borat and Bruno He and I we went and did this movie 15 years ago. Wow seems was that lines getting distributed that and all I mean First of all nobody would do it today But only lines gate would do it back then I will always be so indebted to them because I feel the same way you know I I mean my manager my ex-manager at the time, Brad Gray, was head of Paramount. And of course, you know, we were close and he was like, we could do it. And I said, you

know what? You know what happened, Brad, is that people will start to complain and say, if you release this movie or blah, blah show it here do that then we're not going to support X, Y and Z and they had you know Mission Impossible franchise and stuff. They had pressure to put on them. Lionsgate alone was like fuck all you. We're going to put this movie on. Now they wouldn't show it in many states. Probably the ones where you can't get an abortion.

Right yeah probably the ones where it wouldn't get an abortion. Right, yeah. Probably the ones where it wouldn't have performed. But it did great. At the time it came out, it was the seventh most successful documentary ever made. Oh, wow. Yeah, it did really, really. But, you know, of course, the material was going to be

offensive to any religious people, which is still most of the country, and even though it was not me and spirited, it was not looking down on Christians, or one of the first places we went was a truck stop church outside of Raleigh, North Carolina, truckers, and it's a little shed out in the parking lot. Right. And they have a mass there, and they, you know, and I spoke to them there, and one guy, like, walked out right away.

Right. It was like, if you're making fun of my God, man, I don't want any parking, you know, but the other one stayed, and we had a really good dialogue. Interesting. You know, they weren't, we wound up hugging it out and you know. Do you feel like you learn anything from that audience when you talk to people from that space? I'm always up for learning something.

I mean, my favorite three words are, I don't know. Cause if I say that, I always learn something. So, you know, if you can tell me, usually it's the other way around, quite frankly, because people, they're religious, they don't know anything about their own religion. Most Christians, maybe you're one of them, you're Christian, right?

I am. Yeah, okay. Would tell you that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were disciples of Jesus, the people who wrote the gospels. And they were absolutely not. Did you think they were? No, I mean, we know that those documents were based off an older document. They came later. Jesus died in 33, and the first Gospel mark, the Gospel of Mark, is 70. They were not contemporaries of it. They all had similar names.

They just, you know, they were, so it is a little confusing. But I've talked to people who are real, you know, serious Christians and scholars and all this stuff, and they, oh no, I don't think that's, like, trust me, every scholar understands this. It's not an insult either. It's just a fact.

I mean, you know, the big... They don't know their own religion. They don't have read the Bible. They talk about the Bible a lot. It's a long book. It's boring. The problem that I have with most Christians today, and I talk about this openly a lot,

is that it misses the point. I mean, you can get hung up in the weeds about document Q or whatever you want to talk about with where this stuff comes from, but the point is very simple. You've got somebody who claims to be the Messiah pointing the way towards a whole radically different new way to love, and that's through self-sacrificial care of your neighbor. And when you talk about just that, it's a really beautiful thing that a lot of other religions don't talk about

because you're talking about religions that talk about the way to salvation is through doing it over and over and over again and living a million lives or finding your own self elevation, through meditation or contemplation. But this is talking about admitting that we are flawed and admitting that there's a path towards joy that comes through self-service and self-sacrifice.

And I like that. The biography of Jesus is anything but unique. In fact, it's stolen. The number of gods who came before him who were born on December 25th, really, had disciples, were crucified or something on a tree and then came back to life. Even Genesis, like even the very first story in Genesis, the second line, talking about the spirit hovered over the water, those chaos waters, that myth, that myth was absconded from early Eastern...

The flood. But the thing that makes it different is there's a twist on every one of them that oriances towards I think a seed of truth that is worth inspecting and holding on to. For example, the real twist in the first myth and the creation myth in Genesis is quite simply that those chaos waters that everybody knew, and the serpent being, you know, the sneaky monster being the mythological villain, was well known to people at that time, but never had there been an acknowledgement that it was God who created that thing, and that he thought that thing was good, and that we're to coexist with this world where things like monsters exist and humans exist.

And there's a way to do that in a way that still breeds peace. That had never been done before. Well, I was gonna say the biography of Jesus, not original, but the message was revolutionary. The message, nobody had really ever been down the Meek Shoe and Herot the Earth road. There were so many at the time that Jesus was around.

If he lived, that is still an open question. He could not have been actually a historical figure, but probably was. But at the time, the Greek Roman mythology was waning. So there were a lot of other competing religions. It's kinda like, you know, when anything starts, sometimes there's two meteor movies. There's always, you know, Betamax and, you know, whatever, what be Betamax, BHS. Yeah, it's also that idea.

There's always competing things that are coming around. There were competing religions at Jesus' time. The reason why that one won is because in an empire that was at least a third slave, the message of it gets good in the afterlife was very attractive. And that's not something, that's not really in Judaism either. Judaism

is not centered on the next world. Christianity is like, sure this life is shit, but let me tell you something, you're going to inherit the kingdom of heaven, and who's going to do that? The meek, the losers. Losers are going to get, now Nietzsche said, this message was very bad for humans because it was telling you the strong don't win and that, of course, Well, not only that, but that Earth is not our home. Here's the problem.

That what? That Earth is not our home. That our home is somewhere else in heaven, right? So we can take a dump on Earth, right? Because it's not for us. Because we're waiting for the better place, right? Exactly. But that is also not the message.

The message is that the kingdom is coming to us, that heaven is coming here, that our restoration, our salvation in our heaven is earth, that we're earthly creatures made for this place and that this resurrection will take place on earth. So like, there's, like if you're truly following the way of Christianity, you will be a good steward of this place because this is where heaven is. You know this would be a really successful

episode if you got me to be a Christian by the end of it. This thing would fuck and explode on the internet. Reacher, convince me, Bill Moore devout Christian. That would be hilarious. And that's not my effort. Look, I talk about this all the time. And what I want, if I could have my druthers, I want less vitriol in the world. And I want the Christian community

not to be the one that's known for making outliers and monsters of others. Right. It's a real disappointment. And there is a growing number of Christians who feel exactly the way you do. I mean, when I started covering politics, yeah, Christian was always Jerry Falwell and those... Yeah, right. And, I mean, generations change and it's just the people who are left in Christianity, because

it is always going downward. The trend is less and less people are believing the myth. Why would you want to? There's a lot of venomous Christians out there who, again, are so tribal that what they're trying to do is find safety in numbers and creating outgroups. No, I mean, the younger generations, I'm always ragging on them for good reason. They deserve it. But they do. But and they know it. But they do, and they know it. They're inheriting a real shit show.

Oh, stop it. They're inheriting the best world that it's ever been. They're inheriting for a bunch of bullshit. For who? For them. For Wall Street? No. There are a lot of people who can't tell you something.

They'll never own a home. There are people who will never own a home because of the way that things are structured right now. That is a tough one right now, but actually it's not even true. I had this woman on my show just last Friday, Jean Twenge. She's this expert. She wrote the book on generations. She's done a number of books on this.

One of the big revelations that surprised me and everybody else who was hearing it is that the millennials who we've been hearing forever, oh, tough economic times and living in their parents' basement and actually doing better, comparatively by the numbers than every other generation. They're not, now they're- Wow, every millennial right now,

rolling over in their parents' basement, as they listen to you say this, because they can't afford a home. But they're not. Hoping they're a partner. But they're not. So get rent not. Hoping they're apart. But they're not. So get rent control.

But Alan, there's actual government statistics on this kind of stuff. So what you're citing is anecdotal. That's what I was doing. That mom and dad croak right now so that they can try to get a house. Again, we have actual information on that. We have actual information. So you can believe what you ever want, because that's what religion is, just believing whatever the fuck you want. But there is actual information. So you can believe what you ever want, because that's what religion is, just believing whatever the fuck you want.

But there is actual information. There is actual information. And the millennials are actually doing better than other... Here's what millennials are doing better than anybody else, than any generation before. This is a real headline. You wanna go look this bad boy up.

Their fathers are spending more time with their kids than any generation before them. Well, good. That is the victory that they're that they're having they're they're Rewriting their priorities. I was gonna say is there less religious they are re-ranking their priorities right and and they're finding Finding ways to spend time in places that matter more than corporate servitude or church Or church or church if your church is a real is missing the point. Club Random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus at Radioactive Media. So it's now March, the month that represents the beginning of spring, new life, the luck of the Irish and

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I am not Catholic. I am not Catholic. Oh really? I am not. I mean, neither, look at that. I am not Catholic. What are you? There are so many problems and I'm so disgusted

at the defense that they've wagered, waged for their cardinals and bishops and everybody involved in it. The kids stuff. Yeah, dude. It's disgusting how hard they're fighting. Well it just shows you how institutions become corrupt. And you know, I mean this last pope, there were lots of things. I mean, I just like him as a guy.

He wavers between doing like hip stuff. He takes a hip pill once in a while. And then he goes and protects a cardinal who's like been passing around kids. He doesn't do that. Like baseball cards. No, no, no, no. He doesn't do.

Not this one. They all know about this stuff. And you know what, if he's doing it until somebody stops the buck and they go you know what we're gonna hold all these pedophiles accountable. Well he is not holding them accountable so he's just as complicit. The church definitely doesn't know. The church definitely needs a fresh new face somewhere other than a priest lab. Like Jack Smith. Maybe could be the both. Like maybe we get a prosecutor in the Pope. Oh, I see.

No. But you're being too hard on Frank. Frank has tried more than his predecessors to, I mean, he talked openly about the homosexual cabal in the Vatican, nobody ever did that. Nobody ever blew the lid off that one. And he is not, I don't think he is transferring them like they used to.

I don't think he's pretending. I think first of all, it just became too obvious and it was too open and nobody could do that anymore. But I just, I like Frank. Again, he wavers between like sort of taking a hip pill one day and they'll say things like atheists can get into heaven like we could give a shit because we don't believe in it. Okay, but a nice gesture. And then he'll go back like, atheists can get into heaven, like we could give a shit, because we don't believe in it, okay.

But a nice gesture, and then he'll go back to, he remembers, he's the fucking pope. And he'll do something really hard, right wing, but it's like, okay, but that's your brand, I kinda respect that. You kinda have to once in a while be that guy, because that's what people want. I mean, why would you join a religion if you didn't want like super-duper, hard-fast rules

to keep you in line and to give you a sense of order in the world even if it's not, I mean, my Jewish mother, sort of Jewish but not Catholic, she didn't go to church with this. When I asked her at the beginning of a religion, I was, why did you go along with this? Because she didn't go to church. She said, well, I just thought you needed structure and any structure even though I didn't believe in it was better than nothing. I get that. I wouldn't subscribe to it, but I understand that's why. She thought, oh, you need some kind of religion in you. I mean, this is the 60s. you know. So yeah, I'm not Catholic.

It sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me, but they're gonna teach you commandments and right and wrong, and I think people feel like, and a lot of people, by the way, do need that. I mean, I think religion, it can make you, it absolutely keeps some people in line. Mark Wahlberg, I'm guessing, is one of them. I just feel like without Catholicism, Mark Wahlberg would be all of them out.

And it's not to say that everybody, every Catholic is complicit or every Catholic is in on that or whatever. I mean, look, my mom is an staunch Catholic. She's a saint. She's like a daily mass, like spends her free time gardening, telling the weeds at the church. And I think it's not just important to her, but it's an important part of our identity. And I respect that. And there are millions and tens of millions of people

like that around the world that are Catholics. But I personally just couldn't be a part of something, giving my tithes or time or energy towards something where it's so well known that there's hideous acts of rape and pedophilia going on and nobody's doing anything about it. So you're religious but without a structure, without a subscribe to any one organization. I would think that organizations do always become corrupt, always. To some degree, it's in the nature.

I think, I mean, that probably has more to do with just the lack of structure in my life. I don't have a home. You're a richer. We're back to being richer. I mean, I'll spend four or five months in Toronto filming Reacher, and then I'll go to London or Turkey to film a movie. I'm in Winnipeg, I'm here, I'm there. Like, I don't have anywhere to plug in really, so I don't have a reason to sort of like,

you know, see what the constitution of a certain, you know, religious platform is. I, you know, but I deeply care about exploring those ideas. I think they had a ton of fulfillment to my life. And they, I look, I'm the last, I'm not the poster child for Christianity. I'm a creative perfectionist and stubborn and strong-willed and, you know, duplicitous and like, I benefit greatly

from having a model for me for what I think the best, the highest ideal of love is, which like I said is a self-sacrificial love. Right. I'm totally down with that. That's it. Yeah, I just don't think he's God. I don't think there's such a thing as a God.

I guess we'll find out. Yeah. I guess we'll find out. Well. Rock on. I do, I'll name it, you know, but. Well, that's kinda like. But. I guess we'll find out. Well. Rock on. Like, I do. I'll name it, you know, but I know that's not for everybody. But that's kind of like buying the insurance when you get a rental car.

I mean, that's not a good reason. I'm not saying that's why you're doing it. I've got a Nubarela policy, so I'm here. I'm not saying that's why you're doing it. And yeah, maybe you're right. I mean, I always say it in religious. I preach the gospel of I don't know. People make much too big of a deal

about the difference between atheist and agnostic. It really is the same thing. Yeah, totally. Look, I just, there's like, I think there's good reason. We don't have to get into it. I think there's good reasons though. Like people that were very close to him died defending the fact that he was a historical figure and that what he said was true

and that they believed he was of Messiah. We told him that he was. 11 of his 12 apostles. Yes. Oh. You know, so, you know. Well. There's like, there are things that have happened

historically that are verifiable that I think go to show that people that were very close to him. That's not. Very much believe this. That's not historically verifiable. That he had disciples. That Paul lived and was a Roman. Paul lived, Paul, what?

Brother, this is what I'm talking about. Okay, Paul was not a disciple. He died. No, he, well. St. Paul? He had an interaction on the road to him. Okay, no, no, no. That many, he would argue that he was because he had a personal interaction with,

but you and I, you was the non-believer, it's not possible. Okay, I gotta give you the facts. These are facts. Jesus dies in 33 A.D. Paul was writing in the 50s. He was Saul of Tarsus. Yes.

Did he have a vision? He had a vision on the road to Damascus. It was across in the sky. He never met Jesus. And in fact, one of the things that's so iffy about the Gospels is that the Gospels which were written 20 years after St. Paul was writing, no way more about Jesus than Paul does.

The voice that he was talking to. So you have to believe in magic. You have to believe in magic for it to be true. Right. I accept that. I accept it too. I accept that you have to believe in magic. And I admit, I do believe in magic. You have to believe in magic for it to be true. Right. I accept that. I accept it too. I accept that you have to believe in magic and I admit, I do believe in magic.

The voice he was talking to said, why do you persecute me? And he was trying to kill Christians. And I love my, yes. This is Christ that he's talking about. So I believe that he did have an interaction, a personal interaction with the person that he died. Oh, I see.

Okay, all right, great. And you know what? I love that. That's it. I don't have to agree with everybody on everything. And I love my magic. I love my magician brothers. That's it, that's it.

That's what it boils down to. This corner behind your ear. Yeah, totally. But that's what it boils down to. And I admit, I believe that that kind of magic is real. And if it works for you, I'm through. Totally. But so did Paul.

No. So you can't say that he was a real historical figure. Paul was a historical figure. Paul was undeniably a historical figure. you, I'm through. Totally. But so did Paul. No. So you can't say that he was a real historiographer. Paul was a historical figure. Paul was undeniably a historical figure. Yes, but not a contemporary of Jesus. Sort of. Oh, I see.

With the... That's... People would argue this with him in his own day, of course. His own peers. Not by our... Right. Not by those standards of apostleshiphip but but yes but but I would say that he was because of that interaction it's funny when I went we

went to one of the stops in religious was Holy Land in Florida it's like it's a you know it's basically you know Disneyland for Christians and I talked to the my favorite part of the guy who plays Jesus in the thing and there's a whole pageant where we see him get walking on the Villa di Lerosa, you know, with the seven stops and carrying the cross and people are taking pictures and But he, you know, I was asking him about the, I said, you know, when I was a little Catholic boy the first thing they said is, you know, they were very proud of the fact that they were a, this was a monotheistic religion that we had one God.

I think they were like thinking it was a big, you know, flex over the pagans and heathens with their many gods. They're so unsophisticated and we have one God and his name is God. And he is a son, Jesus, who's also God. And I was like, wait, right away. I'm like didn't you just tell me, aren't we over the limit? And then he explained, he said, well it's like ice

and water and steam. It's all the same thing but it's in different forms. And I told Larry the next day, I think it's in the movie. I'm like, you know he had me for a second there. Like I'm really, I told Larry the next day, I think it's in the movie. I'm like, you know, he had me for a second there. Like I'm really, I'm going for this. This is, at least you have an answer. Yeah, that is, yeah. And that's a tough, man, that's a tough,

it's a tough concept to understand. How can you manifest three distinct identities and still be one? To be your own dad. It's gotta be, you know, come on. Yeah, that's some servient manifestation to the, you know, to the spirit manifestation. That's hard. It's hard for, you know, come on. Yeah, some servient manifestation to the spirit manifestation. It's hard for people to understand. But that also is right.

If you deny that, you are not a Christian. Right, exactly. The Trinity is the very core. Stick with your brand, exactly. It is the very core. Exactly. You must, again, you must believe in this kind of magic. I'm okay with when Frank does his thing.

Yeah. I'm like, you have to do that to like be, you're the pope. You gotta be, you know, you know that phrase, you know, more Catholic than the pope. Right, right. Nobody should be.

Right, totally. Totally. And you know, he's gotta. But he's trying to move, I can tell he wants to move faster, but you gotta bring the flock with you. Not everyone in the parade is at the head of the parade. And that's kind of important. Totally.

So, well, I'm glad we straightened that out. If we fixed religion in just a quick 30 minute sound bite. You can't fix it, but you can talk about it. And I do think it is morphing into, I mean, where you are with it, I'm very comfortable with because what's dangerous about it is when people are fundamentalist. That's when you get people flying planes into buildings. That's totally...

Thinking they're doing the right thing. Totally. Like none of those hijackers thought they were doing the wrong thing. They weren't... That's different than a psychopath. They thought they were doing the right thing. And so do suicide bombers and people at Hamas. That's what's... My biggest thing about religion is that.

I'm 100% with you. I know you are. I think there are terrorists with a little T. And they don't realize. Well said. They don't realize that that's them. And I would like to put a stop to that from my little corner of the world with what little platform I have.

I just don't, I just, you know, that's not the way. I gotta, I hope this isn't new personal, but it strikes me as odd that someone would have a religion on one in their life and also a psychiatrist. Really? Yes, because I feel like they are. Why?

Because I feel like they're redundant in what they do. Like you used to go to confession and tell your sins to the priest. I did that many times. I did too, as a Catholic, of course. Spare the shit out of me. And then you went to a psychiatrist. If you were non-religious, as your confession.

Well, the priest would tell you that was wrong, you're bad, say 15 Hail Marys, and the shrink would tell you that was wrong, you're bad, say 15 Hail Marys, and the shrink would tell you, well, don't feel bad about it. But it was the same thing, it was like. But this is why I talk about this kind of stuff so openly, because I think. It's not the same ground they're covering. I personally feel like there are three things

that are very important to me that we destigmatize and learn to have conversations about in a healthy, productive way. Faith, family, and mental health. And mental health is something I struggle with. You don't know much about me personally, but I've been very open with my struggles on bipolar. I've ADHD, been diagnosed with that. And I'm a suicide survivor. So when I was 35 and... 35? Yeah, not long ago. I'm 41 now. So why didn't it work?

I, weirdly, while it was happening, I saw my kids, but they were grown, and they were totally calm and emotionless. And they said, Dad, we want you here. We want you to see all this. And I just, because I climbed up out of it. But what the fuck made you so sad? Depression is crazy, though. Oh, yes it is. Depression is crazy. I never, I never would have thought.

So it's just a chemical thing. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I know. And you wouldn't believe the power that it has over you. It doesn't matter how many muscles you got. No, it's total. And it is a chemical thing. I couldn't get out of bed.

There were people, Mike Wallace was one of them. I think Dick Cavett was another one. You may not know these people there, but they were stars of an elk in their day. Talked about how they were in therapy for years, years, years, years, years, and then they just gave him a pill. It was just a chemical thing. You just have to pour something in the test tube that is lacking. And that is just, it's really a sad thing

because it's so simple and yet, yes, you can't beat it with your will with anything else. But if you don't, if you're also, I was not diagnosed with bipolar at the time, but I had been manic for nine months and I was servicing all these, I was a slave to some. Did they give you something that? I did, I got on medicine.

Yeah, I mean, so that weekend, the weekend it happened, I went and got, I called the doctor when it was done and I said, I need to speak with somebody immediately and I'd never talked to a psychiatrist about anything at that point. Anyway, I went in and took some tests and I was diagnosed with bipolar. And I was like, it was hard to accept it first

because I didn't want to be labeled. But there's so much power in understanding, and having a label, there's so much power in having an understanding of what that diagnosis is. And now I've read dozens of books about it. I've spoken with professionals about it. I've talked to doctors and, you know, just there's a way for me to manage this

in a healthier way than feeling like there's only one gift for me left for me to give, which is suicide. You know what? I'm gonna tell you something. Not that this was good that happened, but it actually is a great thing for your future. You know why?

Because you're about to embark on this trip to stardom. You're right at that moment. You've done a lot of work, you just said it. You're working so much, you came and have a house. Okay, you're at that thing. Now you're in the Guy Ritchie movie. You're moving into this, it's gonna get really, really heady. Right.

And you're good looking, you're big, you're gonna need something that makes you vulnerable. Because the audience, the reason they read the tabloids is not to read how good people are doing. They want to feel like somebody who's a good looking, very successful guy has some things in their life that actually are worse than mine, and this will fit the bill perfectly. He was so sad, this guy, that he tried to kill himself.

So, um... But, you know, depression looks funny because what people don't realize is I was making tons of money at the time. I was very successful. Sure. It was not like things are not going well. Right.

I'm crumbling under the weight of society right now. Like this was the opposite. It was this, it was a combination of this crippling, you know, existential like what's, when you get to the top of your ambitions, what's left for you. And also, you know, I was just, I had a falling out with some business partners

and they just think, you just think kind of a, some things that weren't going well. And so it was. Excuse me, you weren't at the top of your ambitions. At that point in time, I was. Really, you never wanted to get even higher? Come on, you're just getting there now. You're not even there yet.

I had been, I'm more a creator than an actor, right? I like being at the Genesis Ideas. I was, I had written them, I was ghost writing for people, so I was writing manuscripts for people, selling screenplays, I was directing films, I was starring in a show. I mean, there was a lot, dude, I was taking all the boxes. Like you kind of go like, there's not much.

But there's a, but there's a level of doing that, that you're about to get to, that you're doing those things, you just ticked off on your hand, but on a better level. You're working, you're getting the best scripts. You're working with the best directors. This is what's happening now, I totally understand. Right, you're getting your own shit made.

You know, there is a level, so embrace it. How old are you, kid? We just had a birthday yesterday, they were 11, 10, and eight. Oh. All boys. All boys boys and all bunched together. That's good. Makes it easier, right? No. But I guess if we're out of baby phase, perhaps. And you're gonna have more? No, dude. I know it's not possible. No. And you it's not possible. Oh, no. You might know Ben Mankowin as a host on Turner Classic Movies. Now you can hear Ben

in intimate conversation with some of the most influential filmmakers and movie boss of our time on the new podcast Talking Pictures from TCM and Max. Personal and honest conversations with the greats, Nancy Meyers, Mel Brooks, Emerald Fanel and me. I did it too. I watched Reds and talked about it with Ben and had a blast. Listen to Talking Pictures on Macs or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'll be at the Jackie Gleason Theatre in Miami Beach on March 23rd and March 24th at the Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater, Florida, April 20th. Oh my gosh, 420 San Jose Center for the Performing Arts in San Jose. Perfect booking on that one. See you there.

I totally get why everyone is apoplectic about the Supreme Court getting rid of our abortion rights because people just don't like kids anymore, a lot of them, and they just want to make, they want it to be their choice. We are in a, despite what Barbie says about living in a patriarchy, we are not living in a patriarchy, and women today are, definitely don't want that as a part of their life unless they want it. But I totally understand why Frank has to be out there going, you must have a da baby.

And he wouldn't like this either. Anything that stops a da baby and getting a maid, we don't alike. The baby, it's a natural thing. And they always want more Catholics in the world. That's more baby. You can't make having more Catholics, more babies. So, you know, but I totally get it.

And three is already a- You're the handful, dude. I travel a lot. Like I'm on the road a lot. That's hard. So kids are like dogs. Like, if you have two of them, they get along pretty good, but then three starts to become like a pack. Right. Yeah. Don't get too big for your britches.

You know what? I feel like they could gang up on you. Yeah, they do. They do. They do. But they're great, and it's funny, because... And they're okay with the nomadic life? You know, not so, no. No, it's hard. Because it's hard to make friends. How do you make a friend when you have no community?

But that may make them very strong individuals when they become one. Or psychos. Yeah, we've got three serial killers on the way. We're breeding them right here. Just, yeah, I don't know. You're looking at it the way I try to look at it, you know, it's glass half full and this is gonna work out to be a strength of theirs.

You know, they're well-traveled and connoisseurs of many things that most kids don't experience and you know, have seen a lot of culture and their minds have been expanded in a way. Like, you can try to justify that, but at the end of the day, these are 10-year-olds that want friends

and they don't have any, so what is so- But let me tell you something. They're gonna, I'm looking into my crystal ball here, they're like at this age where they're, do they already have, do they have phones and social media? Hell no. Phones? Good for you. For, why would I? Good for you.

Because much- I get a child a phone. Well, most... Who's he gonna call? He doesn't have any friends. Most parents do. Most parents want to have their kids on this electronic tent. Absolutely not.

I mean, I've seen it not in life because I don't ever see children, but I've seen it in TV shows and movies. They all can't be mischaracterizing it, where the parent texts the child who's upstairs to come down to dinner. Get down here! Get down here! No, that's what they used to do. Yeah, that's what we need more of that.

Much more of that. Or I didn't even have to have that. My town, God bless my, leave it to be, my town had a six o'clock whistle. Oh, right. And when I was out playing, always by myself with no supervision as it should have been, and it should be again, but they would never allow that a child alone.

Oh my God, call 911. But I would hear the whistle and run home. My dad had a, his superpower was this shrill this shrill, 18 miles away, this thing rings your ears. So your kids don't have phones. But okay, they're still going to be at a very formidable age in their life, like tweens and teenagers. They're going to become very, very aware that dad is, yeah, but dad's gonna be, like, you know, you're not like in the tabloids yet.

Trust me, I read them. Well, I'm not, you know, I'm not a disruptive figure, so there's not much to talk about. But you're going to be, you're going to be. A disruptive figure? No, in the tabloids. No, people don't wanna talk about me. You're wrong.

They, you know, like, I was- Trust me, you're wrong. You're wrong. Trust me, you're wrong. They're always looking for new. You're going to be in the tabloids. I'm not interesting enough. I'm just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I

just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just more interesting. They don't cover me that much because I'm 68 and older and male and heterosexual and a million other things.

You just need a couple. But I'm telling you, you're going to be in the tabloids and your kids, there's no way that they're not going to be aware of what's going on with your career and stuff. I'm just telling you, it's going to be an interesting period. They're not aware. It's disruptive, dude. I'll have, like, we were trying to, we were waiting outside of a restaurant waiting for a table and we have probably 40 people coming.

I'm sure you get mommed all the time just from nature. And my poor kids just get, you know, there's tunnel vision. They don't, they don't, it's nothing malicious. They just, people don't realize it's good. Well, it's gonna get worse. Yeah. Well, I'm not gonna get my phone.

We're so bitter. It's like, a phone for my child is not the salve that I'm looking for, so no, that's not a, not gonna be a problem, but yeah, they already know it's a hassle. But you like being on sets. I feel like that's what I do. That's like me on a set. See, I hated it.

It is my, I am so at home. When I like a show, I watch every minute of it. And I've watched every minute of the first two seasons. Thank you. Yeah, you have first two seasons. Thank you. Yeah, you have to thank me. Thank you. Thank you for watching. Well, I wouldn't, I don't watch anything I don't like.

I certainly wouldn't watch the whole thing. I'd sample something. Right. But, you know, I was at the dinner with people last night and my friends, and they were talking about, what are they were watching? They were watching the one about Truman Capote that's on now, which I might enjoy. I could enjoy that too. And this other one about Carl Lagerfeld, what's it?

No, some designer back in the 40s. It sounded interesting also, but like, you know, sort of slow and intellectual. And they said, what are you watching? I said, I'm watching Richard at Hightown. He's hot stars. And it's about, you know, the badass sheriff who's fucking the stripper,

who's actually the baby mom of the drug kingpin. Like, yeah, I like Hightown. I remember I watched Banshee. Remember Banshee? That was like my kind of show, like Vikings. Yeah. Like, it's TV. Real highbrow stuff.

Don't fucking tell me what I should be watching. They call it Dad TV, which is, I don't really understand. No, but your show, like the plot resolution, you know, the sticking the landing. I always say this, I was talking to somebody the other day, some director here, and like, it's all about the ending. Anybody can think of a good idea for a movie or a show. It's how you end it. And like, the resolution, I thought it was very clever of where you start with a mystery at the beginning,

like, you know, whatever it was. And then, by the end, oh, it makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense and it's, the onion is slowly being unraveled as we go. And you're giving the audience enough to be going, what's in the next scene. Right.

But not too, you know, not too much where it's obvious, but not too little, so it's murky. Just say, here's breath ahead of the audience. That's what you want. I'm not a fan of murky. Yeah, yeah, no. Just, it's obvious, but not too little, so it's murky. Just a hair's breath ahead of the artist. I'm not a fan of murky. Yeah, yeah, no. It's a fine line. Yeah, it's a fine line. And then some kicking ass.

And then a couple punches. No, I like the relationship with you and the little blonde girl in the first one. Louis Fitzgerald, she played Roscoe. She was great. One of the best, probably will be the best actress I've ever worked with as long as I live. She was so intensely, and she was so engaged.

She was good, but come on, let's not be ridiculous. You have a long career. That's not the only thing she's gonna do. No, no, she, I gotta taste a bit. She's gonna do great things. Yes, I think she was great. She's phenomenal. I don't want to argue with you, but okay, great.

The greatest actor you'll ever work with, Sarah Bernhard would come back from the dead. This chick would be better. But I kind of need a love story, some kind of love story to keep me interested for a whole series. Like, so that was a good one. Okay, yeah. You know, just the way it evolved.

We gotta hold loosely to those love stories in Reacher because they ain't going to last very long. What? It's an anthology. Well, we'll see. We'll see who lasts who. You never know.

Totally. But you're good now. I mean, did the shrink help with that? Yeah, well, that's what, yeah, I guess that's what I was gonna say was, you know, there are things that psychiatrists offer that it's not really religion's purpose, you know. And so there's a confluence of both cognitive therapy and science, you know, with medicine, it's come a long way. And when you put those together, you get some, you get so much needed help. So we gotta do do both you know yeah I mean I went to a psychiatrist a couple of times very briefly it was more like

couples therapy at the behest of you know someone who was in a relationship right did you want to fix it all I could do to not laugh out loud I mean I'm no I know it helps a lot of people but it was just so much of it was just so LOL. The idea that- If you don't go through like nine psychiatrists though trying to find the right one, you're doing it wrong. Is that right? That's it.

You gotta find the one that's for you. Just like dating, you wouldn't marry the first person that you date? Wait, what, like the first, no, you go through 15, 20 relationships? But the idea that someone who I'm just meeting now could in any way know me better than I know me, it's like there's so many things about me

that I am just such an expert on and the psychiatrist really would not be, but you've got a micro version of yourself. You're zoomed in because you're in there. And there could be somebody who's a really well educated, well qualified individual to step back and help see the macro and see like, there's a plot hole over here.

You know, there's a little, let me fill the soil in over here. It's getting a little sparse, the grass, you know. And we can pay attention to that area more. And, more. And sometimes it's important to have, you know, an unbiased third party who's well qualified to do that for you. Yeah, or you might like be digging up some shit that is better left buried. I feel like... Oh, come on. No. You don't think anything is better? Nobody has benefited in the history of mankind from packing your dirt down harder. That is not necessarily true. You do not know that.

You can't pull anything through the espresso if that shit's tamped down too hard. You've got to loosen it up a little bit. In many cases, yes. Yes, you're certainly right that if you bury ideas and if you buried trauma and you bury what you really think about something, first of all, it couldn't appear somewhere else in your physiology. It will for sure manifest itself somewhere else

in an ugly way until it's... It's raising its hand. But people also just want to pick on scabs that just let it heal over. You can't do anything more about it. And just to keep the wound open, scabs that just let it heal over. You can't do anything more about it. And just to keep the wound open. No, I don't think a well qualified professional would want to just pick a scab to see it.

I don't know about that. I think people, they think it's smarter to just always somehow keep, you know who does that? And for them, it's actually understandable. Actors. Because that's your instrument. And actor is never any good unless they're like, have some turmoil inside that they're working off of.

Am I wrong about that? I don't think so. Here's the thing. One of the first rooms I ever went in as an actor, I was a semi-finalist on American Idol Season 3. That was my first time to LA. American Idol? I was a singer.

So I was flown out for that. You're a singer too? Yeah, and that was my first love. Are you gonna go back to that after you're a movie star? I didn't know. I found my passion. You'll be like, no, you're gonna be like J.Lo in many different ways.

And then you're gonna marry Ben Affleck. That is the goal. That's actually the best in my mission for years. Marry Ben Affleck. Yeah, I, no, oh my gosh. No, I, the first room I went in, I had somebody who was wanting, interested in repping me because I was on American Idol and had done, you know, it was making my way into the business. And the first question was, what kind of trauma do you have? And I was like, oh, I had a pretty normal life. Like I'm not interested.

Why? I was like, I can act. They're like, no, the good actors are the ones with trauma. And if you don't have any, you're not going to be interesting on screen. And I just want to say that I think that's such horseshit. But you got it. You do have trauma and you're good on screen. So why are we arguing?

Wow. Right? I wasn't like, you know, like everybody's got trauma in their own, you know, to some degree in their own respect. No, to some degree, in their own respect. No, no. But like, I had a pretty lovely upbringing. I mean, issues with parents and narcissism and all that. But I was not like, there are people with real trauma

and they're real broken. Okay. And it does not make them a better actor. Okay, maybe not. But in your case, I'm gonna start this story. I was in my mid-30s. And then we're gonna- I was in my mid-30s. And then we're gonna freeze frame and go to 10 years earlier,

because we have to do that in every show. Totally fine. Please don't do that in Reacher. I was totally fine. Will you promise me that? Are you doing more Reachers? Of course. Okay, so don't do that thing,

the 10 years earlier, six months earlier. We do it all the time. We do flashbacks all the time. Everybody has to do that. We have to do these flashbacks. Can't we that thing the 10 years earlier, six months earlier. We do it all the time. We do flashbacks. Everybody has to do that. We have to do these flashbacks. Can't we just tell the story? I'm with you. No, but you're not a heavy flashback show.

But that doesn't like, you're a flashbacks are good because they're within the context of it. It's natural. But that whole like, wait, where are we now? Right. Is this, you know. No, I like that you brought back the dude, the square dude who was a little bit in the second season.

Malcolm, yes, Finley. It was a perfect use of him. Great. It was great. He's the best. And then where does Richard go in season three? Season three is about, based on the book Persuader, one of the most beloved books in the series. Oh, so you're like the book Persuader, one of the one of the

most beloved books in the series. I'll see you like James Bond, you have the books to work off. That's exactly right. Oh that's awesome. It's almost there we're approaching 30 books so we could do I could do this to I'm the funny thing about all these kind of shows or movies that are serials is like how it does the guy just keep running into trouble? I remember there was a show on called Murder She Road. Don't make a fucking a**. It's a famous show. The Black and White? It was not in Black and White.

Was it in Technicolor yet? Yeah, when you dropped dead at 49 of a heart attack. Because you're too scoffed, sauce-quatchy. Remember that one? Yeah, bigger people lived less. For sure. My heart's going to give out quick. Exactly. I'm that one. Yeah, bigger people lived less. I do, I'm just for sure. My heart's gonna give out quick. Exactly.

I'm with you. I guess, and then you'll have real vulnerability. And then you'll be in the tabloids. I'll be begging you for a defibrillator. You're not gonna. But murder, she wrote, it was this huge, I guested on it twice. And she lived in this small town.

It was Angela Lansbury. She lived in this small town. It was Angela Lansbury. She lived in this small New England town. And it was on for like eight, nine years. I mean, like, think of the amount of murders that had to happen in any tiny New England town. But goddamn it, like, die hard. Like, they did five of those, like, really, once again? Right.

He's running into terrorists? Right. This motherfucker has the worst luck in the world. They're decades worth of research. We want that. And does he have a love interest this time? Every year. Please.

He's the American James Bond. Exactly. New, you know, new romances everywhere he goes. Yeah, because he really liked that little Roscoe, but he didn't like it more than his nature. Right. You know, and that's, you know. You see, can I admit that?

Hey, I've never been married. I'm more richer than you, in a way. There you go. But, but yeah, I do understand that like Part of maybe that's one thing I really relate to that character is you know You it's all about some I think it's all about that like is your life in tomorrow I can't ever be happy with what happened even though I have wonderful memories. They're gone They're gone. Yeah, they and they don't And it only tortures me if I can think about something that was great in the past that is not going to also happen

in the future. Totally. So you were married when you tried to... I was, I had married with kids. Right. I thought that it was the best gift that I could give them at the time was bringing them of the burden of myself.

And that's what a lot of people that, people are, those that are left behind, confounded by suicide, how could they do this? Like they had a loving family, they had a loving wife or kids or whatever. How could they do this? I can assure you, with what faculties they had working, they felt like it was the most loving thing that they could do. can assure you, with what faculties they had working,

they felt like it was the most loving thing that they could do. Right. And that's what's so difficult about it, because in the confusion of depression, that lack of logic and reason takes hold and it seems logical. That's a hallmark of bipolar as well, is a clinical lack of insight. So how does your wife deal with like,

when you go out? Like, I mean, I know guys like you, the chicks are always like trying to, and chicks have no shame. They don't care if you're with somebody, that makes it even better. Yeah. You know? How does she deal with that?

She's intensely strong. We both came from a small town and I think you say to yourself, like, I'll pursue this career, but you can't imagine what the consequences of success in an industry like this bring. It's going to get worse. You have, how do I say this? When you have sex icons throwing themselves at you, trying to destroy your marriage, actively trying to destroy your marriage, you bet you're asked, she's damn strong.

Because you don't ask for that. It's like you can very well not invite that in your life and still be dealing with people trying to actively destroy your marriage. Sounds like you need a friend to hang with you. I think I need a sort of a... I need more people. I'll call you next time, will you?

A guy who could like, maybe take the over for me. Take him off your hand. Make your wife feel better. And also satisfy. Yeah, well I'm sure, but I think you're probably also being modest. I think it wouldn't work if you didn't help and participate.

I mean, you can't be iffy on that. You can't be like, I know people who are like, well, I know, I flirt, I just never really do it. It's like, yeah, that's not good either. Yeah. No, no, in a way that's worse. And that's not real. That's not a real relationship. That's not a real relationship. If that's who you are and you're genuinely like entertained by this idea of playing with fire, that's not real.

Right. That's not fair to the other person. No, but I genuinely, genuinely deeply love and want a marriage. I love my wife. I want a marriage. I want my family to be intact. Right.

I fight for it. I see. I fight bipolar, I fight mania, I fight my own personal demons, you know, and my own manly primal desires. Like it's all out there and we talk about it and we just, we go to war. We go to war and it fucking is a war, dude.

It's a war. It is? Yeah, dude. This industry that I'm in, I'm talking about. Of the industry. With what comes at you, what pulls at you, what tries to destroy your marriage, like it's- Oh, I see.

It's all of it. It's real, it's real, you know. And so we really,, like it's- Oh, I see. It's all of it. It's real, it's real. And so we really, really work hard to stay married, you know? And it takes a concerted effort. Absolutely, dude. And, but I mean it. Nutty.

I mean it. I think it's nutty. No, for, it's so worth it though, but it's not for everybody. And I think there's a problem, a little bit of a problem in our society where we say that the model for healthy, successful, joyful living is a married couple. And we demote this idea of a single individual into second class. That's not right.

That's not true. There are a lot of very, very meaningful purpose-filled lives that are single individuals. You're reading my lines. There. But like, you are not second class because you've decided to, you know, to be single. It's true. No. And like, you know, we're talking about the Catholic Church and institutions.

We have been told for so many years by large institutions that the Model for successful healthy living is a married couple. That's not true. You can have a deeply meaningful life I'm using course. I mean, I'm with you. It's all it's all just about personal taste. It's the way it's the chip That's put in our brain when we're born. I mean you can laugh at me And I'm perfectly fine with that because I laugh at them and to to me, it's preposterous. It's ridiculous. It's like, really? I mean, don't you get tired of that person seeing the same human being every day? And the like, like, like-

Oh, that's funny. It's so funny. Randy Names said the world's a banquet and most poor sons of bitches are starving. That's so funny. No, like- No, I know. It's just different.

I think there's something so deeply satisfying about a love that endures- There is. Time. And I thought that too. Like, oh, it's just, oh, I crave. It's just different. I think there's something so deeply satisfying about a love that endures time. And I thought that too. Like, oh, it's just, oh, I crave it, dude, with every fiber of my being. Like, no, yeah, there are other interesting people in the world, but I just, I think I found my person.

Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, you should definitely send her this podcast. Because, I mean, you definitely can't. She couldn't care less about it less about listening to my podcast anymore. No, but like this tribute to her. It's very, very much become about connection. You know, like I have a deep desire to connect with her entire person, her body, mind, soul, right?

And it's become this thing where like- I'm telling you. You can look in the eyes of somebody that you deeply care about and the mind There's you just you it's it's this act of like I can't possibly get any closer to you than I am right now And I wish I could and it's this beautiful moment of connection That's really truly what it is and what I think I think when people discover that that's what the potential You know, that's that's where the potential lies in that kind of intimacy if people haven't discovered this from themselves yet Maybe explore this idea of it truly being about how deeply can we connect in this moment? Instead of getting ourselves off or being gratifying to some self-serving degree, I think that's when it

becomes special. And it took me a long time. We had to run into some really hard times for us to really appreciate that. That's what it is. Like, and what are hard times all about? Oh, it's hard. You're going to fight. And do you ever really forget where you buried a hatchet? But I think people have said variations of this, but I think love is knowing exactly where those weapons lie and deciding not to use them.

You know where you buried all these edges. Right. And you gotta trust each other. That is a great definition of love. So we definitely know where we can hurt each other, but we choose not to because we care deeply. But things are good. Things are good, yeah.

But this business is hard, man. And doing life, building a family on the road together is hard and trying to know when to give each other space to connect with community. Like our kids, for example, we put them in school for like a semester. My prediction, you're going to buy a house within three years. I think this- Well, I think we have to. I think you have to. We have to figure out a house within three years. I think this- Well, I think we have to.

I think you have to. We have to figure out a way to do it. I think you- Our kids need it, you know. Well, and you're gonna need it. You're gonna find, I think, that you're gonna like it. You're gonna like, okay, this is home. I don't know, I'm a pretty, I'm a raving mad artist.

I'm a lone wolf. But my kids and my wife will like it. I am too, but we all mellow. Freud said there's only two things in life, love and work. I put my eggs in, well, I can count on the work, because that's me. You can count on yourself? I can count on myself.

The love is super important, and I can't live without it, but that's not gonna be, I see that I can't count on that as much. Now this is again, so deeply psychologically. Hell yeah, it's deeply psychological. Hear me out, hear me out. Yes. Okay, so I'm working with Jason Hall, who wrote American Sniper, incredible writer.

I just watched it again. Incredible writer. We were developing a project together. And he said it really beautifully. He said, you know, Joseph Campbell's entire, you know, hero's journey can be summed up like this, the protagonist refusal to release. The refusal to release, that's the hero's journey, right?

Release what? That's exactly the question you have to answer with your script. The kraken. That's right, you've done that more than once. Refusal to release, what is it? We gotta find what that is. What have we refused to release?

For you, could it be that you've found a safe harbor in the work, there's not much work you have to do there because the fire is ignited and there's not a challenge there, there's nothing really to refuse to release. But in relationship, you have to give up your power and you have to give up control and safety and the feeling of security, you know? I'm a control freak. Control freak.

I can't do that. Can't release control. I don't want to. I was in a relationship when I was from like 32 to 37, like the exact time I should have gotten married if you were going to get married. But yeah, so I've been down the path and then I've been in other serious, that was five years, other ones lasted like three, three, two. So I know the drill. I know what it's like and I know the sacrifices and I know the gains. I know that it's very nice to have someone who you know they have your back and you know you can, you know, you have security.

But I feel like this tension between security and excitement will never go away. And for me, look, Alan, water rolls downhill. It's always gonna roll toward excitement. Interesting, interesting. Yeah, I'm so curious. I know it's interesting to talk to people who are not like you Right. Oh, yeah. Oh, it is because we're not like each other

But that's it. I mean like, you know people always said to me my whole life You know don't let your dick rule your life don't think with your dick and I always said Why not it's gonna win anyway I feel like my dick is like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. They're gonna get out. You know, you can try to write the end of this movie ten different ways, but there's only one way this movie can end. The dinosaurs get out.

Right. That's hilarious. That is hilarious. But you're a better man than I because you're more mature and all that stuff. But you're going to be tested. I know I have to let you go because you're going to play it. And by the way, thank you for doing this. I don't know.

I appreciate it. I know you came here to do this. I know you were always on the road, so I can't be that bigheaded about it. You've got to be somewhere that's not where you're supposed to be at any moment. So you put this on your stop and I know you got to get back on the road. But I really did enjoy your show. I don't enjoy that many shows. And I wanted to do this because I was like, well, I'm going to get this guy right before he's too big to do it because he's going to be too big to do it. but I hope you won't forget us. I wanted to do this.

When you're... I wanted to do this. I enjoy the conversations you have. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I'm deeply curious. I just, I'm fascinated by you and this format. No, this was more fun than a barrel of monkeys. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

I did. I think I was gonna ask you one other thing before I went into that, but I forgot. Should I do my... I'm at the hobby center for the performing arts. It's so smooth, Alan, isn't it? In Houston, March 2nd, March 3rd, the performing arts center in El Paso. Oh, this means your show's gonna air very quickly, so it'll be right after your movie. What's the name of your movie that just came out?

Which one? Ordinary Angels. It's not today. Ordinary Angels. Yesterday on February 23rd. And then I'll be March 23rd at the Jackie Gleason Theater in Miami. Did you ever get to any of these, you ever get to Miami?

I did just went there with my wife. Let's fucking do Miami together. Amen. Tell me when you're going, I'm there. I want to, March 23rd at the Jackie Gleason Theater. You're always on the road. I just wanted to hear that one. Get your hobo stick.

That's what I picture you. You have a hobo stick with the clothes. English and Fitty, you're always on the road. Get your hobo stick. That's what I picture you. You have a hobo stick with the clothes. Yeah. That was a funny bit in the thing where you, in the first run where you never get the pie. Right. And by the way, I waited all season to actually have that pie because they kept going, would you like a piece before you go

for the day? And I'm gonna wait until the very end of the season. It was the worst pie I think I've ever had in my entire life. Club Randall. Amen. That was great. Thank you, brother. Thanks for coming.

My pleasure. All right. All right, man.