Club Random with Bill Maher - Don Lemon | Club Random

Episode Date: March 16, 2025

On this episode, Bill is joined by veteran broadcaster and cultural commentator Don Lemon. The two discuss Don’s transition away from CNN and his new foray into streaming, the shifting landscape of media bias and viewer trust, the lure of unfiltered conversation versus traditional “managed” television formats, and the political tightrope walk of modern journalism. They candidly dive into everything from Don’s experiences as a gay Black man in the public eye and meeting his husband, diversity and inclusion in hiring, the mystique of AOC, “defund the police,” and how Democrats might counter the MAGA movement without veering into extremes. They also weigh in on the comforts (and occasional perils) of personal freedom. All this, plus reflections on life in New York vs. Los Angeles, the ups and downs of public perception, and much more. Go to https://www.RadioactiveMedia.com or text RANDOM at 511511 to save up to 50%, today! Get 15% off OneSkin with the code RANDOM at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod #ad Follow Club Random on IG: @ClubRandomPodcast Follow Bill on IG: @BillMaher Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/ClubRandom Watch Club Random on YouTube: https://bit.ly/ClubRandomYouTube Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

OneSkin's founding team of female scientists have developed a whole new approach to skincare, starting at the cellular level. Their proprietary OS-1 peptide is the first peptide scientifically proven to reverse skin aging by switching off the dysfunctional senescent cells that cause lines, wrinkles, and dry, tight skin. Get 15% off with code R at Oneskin.co. Invest in the health and longevity of your skin with Oneskin. Your future self will thank you. Club Random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus at Radioactive Media.

Why not utilize something stable for your marketing efforts and tap into the power of podcast and radio? In the U.S., audio reaches more than social media and digital combined. Discover how audio marketing can surpass your current strategies with new and innovative ways that sound better. Go to RadioactiveMedia.com or text random to 511-511. Text random to 511-511 today. Message and data rates may apply.

We bet you didn't know. Our new train's panoramic windows are ideal for contemplating whether texting them back so soon was the best decision. Get on board. Via Rail. Love the way. That guy cannot be intimidated. But is that something that's admirable? No.

Should we celebrate that? I'm not celebrating it. Club Random. Don, it's time for our cooking segment. I don't know if you know this, but I make a mean omelet. Club Random. Don here? I'm here. Roll call? Keep them waiting. Lemon, keep them waiting. Try to intimidate them.

Come in. What time is it? It's 5.30. This show is scheduled for exactly 5.30. It's good to see you. How you doing? I am never late and never have been. You're never late?

You hate being late? And I find it rude when people are. Yeah. And I really don't like it when people go, they're late all the time. I'm like, I'm not late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm late.

I'm late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm late. I'm never late and never have been. Are you never late? You hate being late? And I find it rude when people are. And I really don't like it when people go, they're late all the time, they go, I'm not a rude person. Well, my thing is you are what you do.

If you're late all the time, you are a rude person. But no, 5.30, you were here early, I appreciate that. It's a work day for me. And this is my pleasure time. So it's busy, it's gotta be crazy for you. Yeah, you know, it's like, hey, I've been doing it forever. I'm a person of habit, I like a ritual, I like that Monday I do this, Tuesday I do this,

Wednesday we do this, part of the show, Thursday, Friday, it was game day, you know. I like that. So it doesn't bother me, but you know, whenever there's a change in administration, people always say, you know, what are you gonna do, Bush is gone. Yeah, I think there'll be comedy,

even when the Democrats in office. There's always a lot of comedy. I never get the newspaper and there's nothing in it. Like it's blank that day. There are slow news days, but there's always something. Not these days. But then that's a good challenge though. Whenever there's a slow news day, I find that sometimes I do my best and-

But have you seen one since January 20th? I have not. No, I have not. No, I have not. There's always too much. I can't get it all in. And that were just the things that would be a headline kind of making news. That's like the fifth or sixth story, you know, with the vibe change. It's a lot. I thought it was a lot in 2016 and then in 2020

during the election, but this is a lot. I mean, the first 40 days is like the first 40 years. And the odd thing is it's actually, you know, in many ways worse. I mean, there are things that I like even less than the first time. And there are some things that I'm not going to judge yet. I might even be positive, but mostly I'm thrilled with a lot of things, like switching sides in the Cold War, you know, little things like that.

And yet, my mood is so much better because I've been through it once. Yeah. And I think, you know, I said that in the lead up to every one, I was like, he got the White House, he's not going to get my mind this time. And I think everybody kind of, at least everybody I talked to, kind of feels the same way. I always say you can be informed without being inundated.

And it's good for me that I'm not on cable news anymore because I would just have to absorb all of it 24-7 because there are always in touches, you know you have a show, what do you wanna do with this? This guest is on, this is canceled, blah, blah, blah. So you were sort of in it. But now I find that I can go in and out of it

whenever I want. And I'd figure I'd read the headlines, I read the papers. You do your YouTube show. And I do my show with what I need to. So isn't that the same kind of prep? Yes and no. So with the YouTube show, with my show, the Don Lemon Show on YouTube,

I don't have to pretend. And I don't have to... Don, we know you're gay. What? You don't have to pretend. And I don't have to... John, we know you're gay. What? You don't have to pretend. Not here. We love her. Oh, I'm...

Oh, you know? Are you outing me? I don't have to pretend that. I don't have to give false equivalents. I don't have to invite someone on to lie. I don't have to have an election denier on. I don't have to. If I want to, I do.

And it's all my decision. So I've chosen not to, in many ways, insult the viewer's intelligence by just having someone on purposely who's gonna lie or just to fight. I get that. It's also a very dangerous thing, I feel, to think you always know what's a lie and what isn't and to kind of like summarily think

that only one side is lying. One side is lying more than the other, that's true. But it is a slippery slope. I don't believe that just one side lies, but I mean, I think you should have people on who can tell the story on the other side. But I don't have to have, I don't have to book people just to fight. I hate that.

I do too. Yeah. Yeah. I stopped doing that. I mean, that was, that was the old show, Politically Incorrect. It was much more of a, well, people like fighting. Well, it wasn't just because I actually got, I thought, excuse me, I got more out of that show than most new shows on television back then. Yeah. But there were fights, but I thought they were organic. Cable News is not booking organic fights anymore, organic guests. They're booking people to come on and yell at each other because they're desperate for ratings.

So... You think your old network does that? I think they all...I don't want to specifically...I think they all do. I think...not they all do. I think... I'm going to say NBC doesn't because you don't want to specifically, I think they all do. I think, not they all do. I think if any- Unless NBC doesn't, because you don't see people on there who disagree. I see many of them do. Some of them do.

Fox does it, I believe. They invite a Democrat on or someone left leaning just to yell at them. And I do see- Right. Yeah. I do see some cable shows doing that, which is, for me, at the end of the fight or the argument, I wonder, like, what did I get out of this? I usually don't get anything out of it.

And I think people need to be informed more than ever now. I know you think like broadcast TV is dead. I think I heard you say that. No, I don't think broadcast TV is dead. I think it's on the decline. I don't think it has as much influence as it. Did you say that when you're used to be on it? Yeah.

Yeah, no, I was on broadcast TV for a while, but do you mean cable? You mean just in general. Well, I mean broadcast cable. I mean, most people have basic, I mean, most people have CNN in their house. I mean, it's a pretty primitive TV setup you have if you don't have CNN. But, let's say legacy media. I mean, legacy media, the polling from people has it in the toilet.

It's down there with Congress, that they don't trust it. I've been really surprised by, yes, you're right about that. They don't trust it because they don't trust the corporate influence. You know, and look, in order to stay afloat, they need corporations to own them, right? But they just don't like, I think people believe, and rightfully so, that the corporation is influencing. That's part of it, but that's, well, it is. But also, they're not holding people to account, and also that they are, they're just not doing a very good job at some things.

You know why I don't trust it? Because I never feel like I'm hearing the full story. I'm hearing narrative. I'm hearing whatever outlet I'm listening to, they are asking themselves first, not what's true. They're asking themselves, what does this audience want to hear? How does this audience want me to interpret this story? And I'm going to give them that.

So to get like a full story, I can never get it just from one source. And what I always try to do on real time is be that source. Be that place where if you watch the full show, you get the full story. Now, of course, what people do in this media atmosphere that we're in is many people don't watch the full show. They see clips.

So you can carve up any one of my hour long shows and just feed, and a lot of people only see it this way, just feed them the part that they either will make them love me or hate me. Yeah, they can feed you something. To both sides. Something that they think is right, they just feed it, and then something they think is left.

Yeah, but that's always been the case, don't you think? Not this bad. No, no, no, I don't. You think this is worse now? Oh, way worse. I think the New York Times, just to take the most prime example, because it is the paper of record, blah, blah, blah, not to me anymore.

I mean, it used to be, I feel, the editorial page was opinion, yes, but not the front page. And now every page. That's just a change they made. Now part of that is because of Trump, it's very hard to be honest and true and not say he lied, basically. Newspapers never used to say the president lied, even though presidents have always lied. But they just basically, they just went out and said, because you can't not, because he

took it to such a different degree of lying that you just have to say. So that is true. He did lie. But he does lie about many things. We saw, I mean, there was lots of crazy stats in the speech he made last night. The fake State of the Union? The joint address to Congress. Luckily, I had a joint when I was working.

Is it better to watch high? Everything's better high, Don. Don't you get high? But can we get back to the New York Times? I don't disagree with you on some things about the New York Times, but I do believe it's still the paper of record. I used to compare, I used to read the New York Times and then the Washington Post. And the Washington Post, I found, was much more straightforward than the New York Times. I thought that the

writing in the New York Times was much more interesting and flowery and perhaps that may have sort of influenced people. But then I read it and I said, you know what, after a while, I said, this is a more left-leaning message than the Washington Post. But the Washington Post now, I don't know what the fuck is going on with them and Jeff Bezos. Well, they just had a big shift. I mean, they went super woke, too, like the New York Times.

It's a generational thing, you know, a certain cadre of things. You think the Washington Post went super woke? Oh, I gotta give you my book that came out last year. I have it, I was on your show, remember? You gave me a copy of it. Okay, well there's a really funny one in there about the story in the Washington Post. There was a, Dave Weigel, I think is his name,

he's one of the star reporters. I think he's somewhere else now. Very respected guy. And he tweeted something that was so benign. I think it was all women are polar. You just have to find out whether it's bi or sexual. Oh no. What? No. All women are bi. You just have to figure out if it's polar or sexual. Is that what

happened there? That makes more sense. You're high. I'm high. I'm fucking, I'm high. I'm fucking. Anyway, it was benign. I thought. It was just somebody, it's just a joke for Christ's sake. Get over it. The insanity that went through the newsroom, and we did the thing on it, it's in the book,

it's just hysterical. I mean, I hardly had to embellish it, but of course, who could resist at least making jokes about it? But like there was a reporter who was just, let's shall we say, a lot. And she went apeshit about this. And of course, nothing can be done behind closed doors. Everything had to be done on Twitter.

And so he was let go, and then somebody else joined the Twitter fight on his behalf, and then he was the person who had to be like, it was like the fact that this fucking kindergarten went ape shit over this silly little joke on Twitter. So please, the question, do you think they've changed? Yes, they have. Well, two things.

I wouldn't know about what you're talking about, joking is kind of my story, but this. Read the piece. Yeah, but I get it. But I mean, I'm talking about the content in the Post. I understand. I agree with you on the fallout. I think it's ridiculous. But on the content, at least the people who are writing for the Washington Post, I think that they are really good journalists and they tend not to be as biased or as left.

Yeah, and there are some for the New York Times too. Yeah. But what you're talking about is ridiculous. I think, look, that's the reason I think that Democrats are in the place that they're in now, is because of shit like that. Of course. Because they get rid of their strongest allies for some stupid thing that no one is perfect.

Look at Al Franken. It was the dumbest thing that I've ever seen. I had a really tough time, I'm in New York, I had a really tough time filling in the dot for Kristin Gillibrand because she did that and she was such virtue signaling. Don, I'm sure if you had a nickel for every time someone's hand drifted down your waist

when you were taking a picture with them, you'd be a very rich man. I'm just guessing. I would, I have been harassed by women and men in the work. And some things are not even ... it's ridiculous. Now look- Tell us. I'm very interested in this. No, no, no. I'm interested in this. There are some things that are really egregious, right? But not everything is Harvey Weinstein

level. No, that's rape. And then some of the... right. That's a whole different story. I'm not talking about that. And I'm not saying it makes it right. But I remember when I was in Atlanta and was in the cafeteria commissary, whatever you want to call it. At CNN? At CNN.

And this woman, young lady, tweaked my nipples and said, oh, it's cold in here. And I said, okay, you realize if I did that, they'd be walking me out the door right now. But I didn't care. I didn't go to HR. I didn't say anything because I was just like, it's a double standard. Good for you.

And also, but I've never told this story as well, someone who I worked with also harassed me at CNN. And I never went to management. First of all, I was so new there. A man or a woman? A woman. And she knew I was gay. And it was just bizarre. She was going through a divorce. It was just weird. And I never went to management. First of all, I thought like, okay, they may find a way to get rid of me because if I tell this story, I don't know if they're going

to believe me or not. But then she was so mean to me after that. I said, I should have told the story. But yeah, I've been harassed by men and women. But when like what constituted this harassment? Like, like what did you physically like in the office, like come in and twirl for me, Don? It wasn't a twirl for me, but it was not it was not in the office. But yeah, it's all I'll go that far. So you had to be with her in certain business occasions, but outside the office? Outside the office.

Like at a cocktail party? Places like that? No, I know, because like in our business and media, there's a lot of cocktail parties. There's a lot of assholes. A lot of cocktail parties. And remember, this was a while ago and there was not Uber or anything like that. And if you are in Atlanta, there are taxis that aren't available. And so, you know, you say, hey, you know, I'm going to, we've had a couple of drinks and do you mind if I like, you know,

or whatever? No, no, no, don't go home. Stay in the guest room, that sort of thing. So, yeah. The guest room? Yeah. Oh, you were at somebody's, staying at somebody's house. Right. Well, I mean, look, let me go back to the cocktail party, because there's something very important about those kind of cocktail parties. They serve these garlicky hors d'oeuvres, and people have the worst sort of breath. Yes.

Usually unattractive, pudgy, doughy, male reporters, and they pin you to the wall and they're talking to you and their breath stinks. If someone was sexually harassing me with that breath, I would definitely go to HR. But if they did not have the garlicky breath, I would let the nipple tweaking go. That's just where I draw the line. It just shows that we're all individuals.

We're all individuals and I'm an adult. And look, I think it is different for men and women, you know, depending on the power structure and that sort of thing. I wish I had been harassed this much, quite honestly. I think it's flattering as long as you can fend them off easily. Yes. I know as a man I could say, no, I'm not interested or just right but also as someone is it look I as someone who was Molested as a child for you were yeah. Oh, so for me it is a different thing

I know how I know how to serve must be very triggering. Well Yes, and no Because you know because you know how to deal with it and you know what's really important or not. And you know who has the power. I figure as a man I have the power to say I don't want to do this. And you're bigger and stronger. Yes. I don't need to go to HR and earn your career. I just tell you I'm not interested in this. You were drunk. We had a couple of drinks or whatever. Let's let it go. But some

people they made a business out of it, quite frankly. Whether it's whoever it is, but some people have. But in many ways, in many times, most times it's legitimate, but there are times that it's not. I think it's a little bit too much. I mean, look, I can't relate to that.

I'm almost the opposite. I remember the first time I was lucky enough to say to my friend, what does it mean when a girl grabs your dick? You know, that to me was like, oh, I've really arrived. That happened to me recently. Because that's a very, I feel like it's a very strong signal. Someone did that to me recently. A man or a woman?

A man. Whose name is? I can't really tell you. I thought I would just was right into that. Roll right into that. You know what I love about changing seasons? Absolutely nothing. You know that magical time of year when Mother Nature can't decide if we should wear a parka or a speedo? And guess what?

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Invest in the health and longevity of your skin with Oneskin. Your future self will thank you. Club Random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus at Radioactive Media. 2025 is looking pretty dicey. There's a lot of confusion and uncertainty out there, and things are changing practically by the minute. As a business owner or CMO, what steps are you taking to ensure your business survives and thrives or something very reliable? Well, why not utilize something stable for your marketing

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We were at a restaurant and they were drinking. They're like, oh my God, look at you. You've lost weight. You look so hot. And then they, and I was like, whoa. And there were people around me. They're like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah.

The guy was drunk and I just said, okay, he's drunk or whatever, perhaps I should have said something, but I don't. I mean, it happens a lot to men, more often to men, I think than people realize. From your lips to God's ears. But again, I pray for this to get to recur in my life. Look, I'm going to say this because in this world of cancellation, I don't know. I'm not a woman, so I don't know how it feels to be a woman, and that happens to a woman.

I'm not a woman, and I do know how it feels. Awful, of course. How could it not? I know that. Especially- But I'm not going to speak for women in this situation. I can only imagine how terrible it is. Well, I will. I will speak totally for women, and it's just terrible. It's not hard to imagine because they are, I know because we have to pretend differently

with gender stuff these days that we're all kind of the same. We're not. They're smaller generally, weaker generally. I agree with you. This is not a criticism of, it's just science, it's just biology. And so you just feel the same way. I think we're saying the same thing. If a six, if Reacher

was trying to reach around to me, I would be like, oh, I'm powerless against this. That might be a different story for me. But no, I think we're saying the same thing. I'm just saying I don't want to speak for women. I can't imagine how awful it is for a woman. I'm not. So no, it's terrible for a man, too. I'm just saying I don't want to speak for women. I can't imagine how awful it is for a woman. I'm not, so I'm not condoning it. It's terrible for a man too. I mean, look, they say that because of prison, oh, I don't want to mess up the statistics, but if you asked the person in the street,

who do you think gets raped the most, men or women, they would, and maybe it is women, and maybe it's by 10 to one, I don't know. Women get raped the most, yes. Okay, but like because of prison. I believe in facts, yeah. I think, yes I do too, that's why I said I don't have them. But because of prison, like it's not as one sided

as you think. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it's not like men don't get raped, it's just, that don't get raped. It's just, that's where it happens. And why we allow that, I mean, why?

You think we could control prison, you know? Why is something like that such a, they just accept it, you know? Like, well, if you go in there, you're gonna, you know. I think it probably happens. I think that's sort of a, I think that's sort of a myth that people have. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in prison, but as often as people would like to believe that it happened in prison. But also on the other end, it's men. Men are dogs. They're horny. Right. Yes, some prison sex is certainly consensual.

Yeah. But I'm sure all of that happens. But I mean, it's a weird conversation we're having. I never thought I'd be talking to girl Mar about prison sex. Dom, I play the long game. This is just my way of tweaking your nipples, but I just do it verbally. We've seen Oz. You've seen Oz, right? Yes. You remember that on HBO? Oh, Oz scared the shit out of me. Why?

You were afraid someone was going to prison rape you? You're not in prison. It was just as... No, I'm not. But it was just a scary show. It was. I mean, it was... People don't remember.

This is HBO like 20 years ago before streaming and all that. His name is on... JK Simmons. No, JK Simmons. Was the Nazi in prison? And the guy who's... Why can't I think of his name is on... JK Simmons. No, JK Simmons. Was the Nazi in prison. And the guy who's, why can't I think of his name on Law and Order? Yes, absolutely.

SVU. Yes, absolutely, him. And that guy. That guy, he was the, he was the holler. And he also does the commercial where his face is always the bottom of a car getting beat up. No, that's the other guy. Oh, that's the other guy.

That's the other guy who does the mayhem guy on the commercial. Yes. I'm talking about Chris, whatever his name is from. Oh, yes, Chris. From. Right, I know, Maloney. Chris Maloney. Yes. Chris Maloney was the main character. And Dean. Right, Dean was the other guy. Yeah. Yeah, there was a show that like so many HBO shows spawned, you know, a lot of big talent. Yeah, it was a good show. But Chris Maloney was already on Law & Order SBU and was very famous. I think this was sort of a side gig for him. But I'll tell you why it was scary, Don.

Because of course they have to have a character through whom we can see ourselves as the regular person. So do you remember? You. Who were we all? We were Beacher. He was this guy who went to prison because he had a few too many drinks one night

and hit a little girl with his car. Okay? So you can go to prison for that. That's manslaughter, okay? But he's just like a regular, normal guy. Never thought of himself a... So that's who we all... That's us. And so in the first episode, the Nazi, J.K. Simmons, normal guy, never thought of himself a... So that's who we all... And so in the first episode, the Nazi, J.K. Simmons, who I still can't get past that

when I see him, he pretends to befriend Beecher. And he says, you know, it's okay, come in myself, I'll protect you." And then of course, cut to he's tattooing a swastika into his ass, into Beecher's ass. So not good. You paid more attention to that than I did, but go on. I did what? You paid more attention to that than I watched. I don't remember all those things. I just remember that there was a lot of shower scenes. You've seen more men's asses than I have.

But when I see a guy- I'm not sure about that Bill right now that you're talking about it. I've seen none except mine. When I see a guy who's like, he burnt something with a match and so it was, yes, he tattooed a swastika into his ass cheek. So yes, that did stay with me.

Yeah, but it stayed with you. You weren't worried someone was gonna do that to you, right? No, it's not rational, but you know. I get it. We all worry about that. Look, do I think the Comet is gonna hit us in 2032? They say there's a one or 2% chance. I'm not worried about it, but it could happen.

I mean, the Comet could happen, and somebody could frame me, and I'm there with the swastika on my ass. It's not even the ass part. Maybe I should light up a joint. Come here, Bill. Really? I'm joking.

I'm talking about burning a swastika. Oh. It's a little slow. Yeah, that's right. Anyway, oh, there was something so important that I wanted to... You wanted to talk about, you were talking about the possibility of that happening in men and women. Yeah, but that was way off the...

That was off the beaten path. Off the beaten path. This is crazy. I never thought I'd be having this conversation. Well, you know, that's the joy... At all, but along with you. That's the joy of this podcast. It is all conversations you never thought you'd be having.

Because in real life, do you plan your conversations? No. So like, there's a, come on. Oh, we're high-fiving? No, I agree with that because that's, you're saying my philosophy that happens, and people, you know, often when you're just having a real conversation, you say things that are brilliant sometimes conversation, you say things that are brilliant sometimes and you say things that are stupid and that's the whole point of a

conversation. But somehow we have- Me or people in general? Just people in general. Right, right, right. But somehow we have forgotten that I feel that that's what television should be like. Television can never be that way. I wouldn't even try to do it on my show.

It's boring for the audience to go through all that. It just isn't. Believe me, if anyone knows, I think it's me. I try to make real time as real as you can in that setting. It's just not this. First of all, I'm not high. Believe me, I've talked to the boss about it. You've never been high on real time ever? No. That would be a disaster. I mean, I have, you know, Senator Tester on Friday night. I'm not gonna get high with him. Couple cocktails?

No, no, I mean, John, I'm almost 70. You can't like drink, I mean, I'm drinking tonight. Okay, so already I'm finished. No, you just can't drink a lot. I save it like for this. I really enjoy, I do enjoy drinking, but you know, you just can't. Every once in a while I would go out, this. I really enjoy, I do enjoy drinking, but you just can't. Every once in a while I would go out,

when I was in CNN, I'd go out to dinner and have a glass of wine, or maybe one cocktail, and then two hours later I would do a show. I didn't feel like I was drunk, but the conversations were really good. Yes, oh absolutely. I mean, look, the history of drugs of all kinds, improving art.

That's why they do it. That's what LSD was for, it was a mind expanding drug. I mean, if I had been lucky enough to get a message that resonated with me when I was 20 and starting to smoke, it would have been, hey kid, cigarettes, they don't get you anything. They don't make you smarter. But you know, iPod, yes. I mean, LSD. My record collection would be very different without it.

Even heroin. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't recommend it. But you know, there would be Miles Davis not without it. Yeah. Why is music so good when you're high? Because it was made when they were high. Why is music so good when you're high? Because it was made when they were high. Ah, ah. No, no, it works both ways. We like drugs for a reason.

They work, OK? It's just that there is a downside. And it's very hard to convince people when you're in your 20s when your body is so strong that you can come back from anything. It's just hard to convince you that, oh, you know what, think about when you're, yeah, I'll never be that, and now I am that,

and I wish I had thought about it then, but that's youth versus age. But I think, Bill, I'm gonna disagree with you on, I think that we can have conversations like that on television, I think it's- Not like what happened now. Never. Well, I think that's the reason that linear television is on the decline, is because people are craving that realness and they're not giving the people what they want.

It just moved to a different place. It's a different... Your show's on YouTube now. It's a different mechanism. It's the same thing. Do more people watch you on YouTube than watch you on CNN? I think now, I think they do. Well. You don't know the answer to that question?

No, no, I do know the answer to that question. I think in my early days on CNN, I would say more people watched me on CNN. And then also when I was there, it was a different time. I think more people watched me on CNN. No, I don't know. I think more people watch me now. But I think the highest point of CNN was during COVID

and we had COVID and George Floyd at the same time and Donald Trump. And that was the height, that was the highest ratings, the most profitable of CNN. And so it was amazing to be there. People watched every night and they sort of relied on us because you were stuck in your home and you had nothing else.

I bet you more people see you now. More people, you're right. And more people see me now and more people recognize me now. And there's lots of stories, I can't think of any specifically right now, but about like, for example, streaming versus the theater and directors. Maybe Martin Scorsese said this, I don't know, but somebody like that. And one of their movies, maybe it was The Irishman, maybe this is just, I'm making that up, but I've heard this story about movies from directors before who said, you know, this movie I made and I fought it to go to streaming

and it went to streaming and 20 times more people saw it than would have in the theater. You know, it's just, I'm that person. Like, I see all the movies in my bed. Why wouldn't I? Unless I have to see something like The Next Day, which only rarely happens, or there's like a reason maybe for my,

we want to comment on it on the show, I would go to a theater, but I think the last movie I saw in the theater was Barbie. I didn't even see that. I can't remember the last time I, unless I go to an opening like a friend or someone, some group invites me to come to an opening. I don't see it.

I mean, I just watched the Dylan movie. What's it? No Direction? Oh, no, A Complete Unknown. I just watched that. With Chalamet. In my bed. Yeah, which is why I agree with you.

So now, look, I don't pay attention as much because I'm used to people going, oh, Don Lemon, hey, CNN guy, whatever. My husband says, Don, more people recognize you now than when you were on CNN. And I'm like, really? Yes. I know, I'm not surprised.

But also not just because of the podcast or whatever, the streaming show, but because of the podcast or whatever the streaming show, but because of social media. And my pledge to myself, someone asked me like, you know, what is your purpose? And I said, my purpose, my professional purpose is to meet the audience where they are. And the audience is not on cable,

the audience is on social media, and it's on digital and on YouTube and those kinds of places, Twitch or whatever. And that's where I'm meeting the audience and having success with it. People think I'm nuts. Some of the things I do on social media. Yeah, you're a little crazier than you used to be. I'm not crazy. I don't think it's crazy. No, I'm not crazy. I said crazier, like you do more wacky things.

I do things that are- Than in the street kind of stuff. I do, well, I do man on the street. Every single journalist has done man on the streets and that's where the real, that's where you, you wanna be where the people are, you wanna know what they're saying. I love the people, Don. No, seriously, you do. I do.

And if you, people who are sitting in studios, you know, on a nightly basis and talking to people with suits on and ties or cocktail dresses about, they're not getting to the heart of what's happening. But I'm having fun. They're the kind of people who harass you later at the party. Tell me about it. Especially if it's a Republican event.

Those are the titty twisters, those people you ask. Especially if it's a Republican event. What? Oh my gosh, Republicans are so repressed, the guys. If there's a Republican event or a convention, I try to stay in my hotel room. Because they hit on you more? 150%.

Yes. You measured it. I'm just joking. I'm just joking with you. So the Republicans hit on you more. This is so interesting. I mean, I'm not surprised. You know, I used to do this gig every year in Hawaii, 12 years, New Year's Eve.

It's the best. And the promoter of the event was a gay man. I mean, I love this guy. We worked together for 12 years. I miss him. Does a lot of other shows. But we stayed at the Four Seasons in Maui. Beautiful.

I love that place. And he said Grindr was very active with the bathroom in the lobby. And I'm like, who is that? And he said, married men, whose wife had a massage that day and fell asleep in the room, and they go down and hook up with guys. Wow.

That never happened to me there, but I'm not surprised. Grindr, by the way, crashes during the Republican convention. No, where have you been? Are you kidding me? You don't know this?, where have you been? Are you kidding me? You don't know this? No.

Are you serious? No, I'm not in that world. Why would I know that? Well, I mean, it's just been reported. Like, people, like, it's a thing. People know. I mean, I think it's because they're so repressed and they can't, because they can't be themselves because they, you know, they're kind of have this whole thing about homosexuality or being

gay. Oh, very much so. Yeah. You watch CNN, right? Do you know Bakari Sellers? Sure. So Bakari Sellers is a friend. And on inauguration night 2017, Bakari says, let's go to the Trump Hotel.

And I said, are you kidding me? No way. I'm not going there. And he said, why? They're not going to out-protect you. I'm like, no, not against. I'm not afraid of anyone beating me up because I'll kick their ass. There's so much rage inside of this body. I'll kick their ass. And he said, why don They're not going to out protect you. I'm like, no, not against. I'm not afraid of anyone beating me up, because I'll kick their ass. There's so much rage inside of this body.

I'll kick their ass. And he said, why don't you want to go? I said, because I am seeing someone, number one, and I don't want to be hit on so much by it. And he goes, you gay guys, you want every straight guy to be gay? I'm like, no. And he said, come with me.

I said, OK. So I go. Everyone's buying me drinks. Don Lemon is here. Blah, blah, blah. And then all of these guys are over talking to me and sort of rubbing up against me and whatever. And Bakari's like, oh my God, you're right. I have no idea. He had no idea. And it's, I don't think they're doing it to just normal heterosexual men. I think they're doing

it to gay men who they know because they know that they're men. I think they're doing it to gay men who they know because they know that they're gay. And so they're shooting their shot. I hate to say that, but it's a truth. No, that really doesn't surprise me. But I do think that the idea that you would go over there, even if this was a Trump... This Trump hotel on inauguration night. Trump crowd. Yeah, it was a Trump crowd.

Okay. The idea that they would be hostile. I mean, I know a lot of MAGA people. One person was hostile. Right. See, let me ask you your opinion on this. Saturday Night Live, 50th anniversary show, they did one thing, they did a sketch where Tom Hanks puts on a MAGA hat, so he's a Trump-er, and then Kenan comes over to shake his hand, and he won't shake his hand.

And I said this on The Fareed Show the other day, I found that that's so old. I didn't vote for him. I get all the bad things about that administration, but if you think they don't shake black people's hands, it's just, you're wrong. That's not who they are. Matt Gaetz shakes black people's hands. It's just, you're wrong. That's not who they are. Matt Gaetz shakes black people's hands. Kid Rock will shake your hand. It's just not helpful to think that half the

country, that's where they are. That's your step. Still, you're a comedian. It's part of its comedy. I understand. But let's be honest. There's a huge faction of the MAGA movement that's really fucking racist. I wouldn't say huge, no. I'd say part of it. I would say huge. Yeah, okay.

Well, we have different perspectives. I would say huge. And even if they're not, you have to overlook a lot of that in order to support Donald Trump, which I think is maybe even more egregious than just saying I'm a racist. So what do you think is the worst? I mean, to me, the back in, was it 89, with the Central Park Five? That was, to me, like the most egregious thing because it just seems so like, and then of course the Obama birth certificate, which-

You mean with Donald Trump? With Trump. With some of the most egregious- Yeah, I mean he sued me, Trump did. For the orangutan thing. Yes, because I was making fun of that because that was very racist. But also like he seemed to be just,

I mean there was something very animating about his like like, just laser-focused drive about the Central Park Five thing. That seemed to, I would feel the racism in there. What was the payoff? Why was he there? He wasn't running for office. It was, right, it just seemed like,

like, it just, there was something in him. And of course we know his father was a virulent racist. Yeah. You know, and he grew up in a different time and he's almost 80 and yes, I understand that element to it. But you know, to ascribe to all the people who voted for him, which is a majority of the country. I didn't say all the people.

No, I understand. It's not a majority, it's plurality. Well, whatever it is, he won. Yeah. It's at least half the country. I mean, to ascribe his worst traits to all of them. I don't think it's half the country, but go on. Well, what is it?

Ascribe his worst traits to whatever. How do you win an election? Well, first it's the electorate, not everybody votes, and I think most of the people in America don't vote. And I don't think it's half the country. So what I'm saying is, I don't think half the country is racist and I don't think all of MAGA is racist. But I do think that there's a huge element

in the MAGA party that is racist, whether they are conscious of it or not. Some of them are not. And if they are not, they have had to overlook a lot of racism and a lot of big or not. Some of them are not. And if they are not, they have had to overlook a lot of racism and a lot of bigotry. And if you do that and you say, I'm okay with this, I think that makes you worse than someone who just says, hey, I'm a racist. And they tell you. But some of it is just a backlash to what they think was going too far, like all these

corporations now that have dropped DEI. Now, in the government they did it because they ordered- Backlash for what? For too much DEI. I don't think those people understand what DEI is. DEI is not the hiring of black people who are not qualified or-

It can be. People who are, no, no, no, that's not what it's about. It can have that result. But anything can be, yes, of course it could have that result, but there's no evidence that it does have that result. Oh, I don't know about that. Okay, so then what is your evidence? There's no evidence that there is that result. If you can show me the evidence, then okay. Then I will agree with you.

Well, I'm not going to name any names. Okay, but diversity, equity, inclusion, first of all, is not. Maybe they're talking about affirmative action, which is a whole different thing, which is about making sure you hired a certain number of people that are this, that, and that. But diversity, equity, and inclusion is about making sure that the pool of candidates is larger.

So if you are fishing, rather than fishing in a swimming pool, maybe you're in a pond. Rather than fishing in a pond, you're in a lake. Or maybe in the lake instead of a river. Or in a river, you're in the ocean. Or maybe in a lake instead of a river. Or in a river, you're in the ocean. So you're just trying to find different people, and you're trying to increase the number of options of qualified people that you can hire.

It's not about hiring people who are not qualified and who are just black. The biggest recipient of DEI is white women. And also veterans, because of of veterans and also people who are disabled people. It's just about making sure that disabled people have a ramp somewhere at work so that they get to work and make them whatever. I understand, but equity is the word, not equality. That was a change that people noticed. Equality was everybody gets an equal shot. that people noticed, equality was everybody gets an equal shot.

Equity is like, no, it's basically quotas. Equity is we're going to... It's quotas. I don't think that everybody... America's never been about everybody getting an equal shot. No, it certainly hasn't been. No one's contesting that. No. But that's what the idea, the old school liberal idea was, we need to strive for equality. That changed to equity.

This is what some people are against and reasonable people couldn't disagree with it, on it without being racist. Having said that, there are of course racists in this country. There always will be, just like there will always be criminals. We bet you didn't know. Our new train's panoramic windows are ideal for contemplating whether texting them back so soon was the best decision. Get on board.

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of the world of people who get canceled and they use the DEI stuff to get rid of people. But I think you have to understand what the real definition is and that people have sort of co-opted it. And I think if you believe as in the definition that the MAGA Trump administration that they're saying what DEI is, that is a racist definition of diversity, equity, and inclusion. What is it? What is it? They're saying that this is because they're hiring people, women, people of color, minorities who are not qualified.

And that's not what is happening. So you're saying no person of color or woman was ever who was not called was ever hired for any job? I'm sorry, no, I'm not saying that. But that would be saying that no white people were ever unqualified. Oh, and we know lots of them have. Yeah, and so when you're most of the people who are, they talk about the airplanes and the airplane industry. Most of the pilots and the people who are white. Most of the doctors in the country where they say DEI, we don't want it, we hate, most of the doctors are white. And so all of those malpractice suits

are against mostly white doctors. Most of the planes that fall out of the sky are piloted by white pilots. And so then what is your issue then with diversity, equity, and inclusion? I don't have one. I'm the question. No, I'm not saying you.

I'm talking about the understood you. What is your issue then if there is no evidence that by hiring a bigger pool of people. No, I think they think they have. I think there is happening. There are places. Okay, I will give you an example because we had fires here recently. I mentioned it on my show, so something new I'm saying. But our fire chief was a lesbian.

And I said on my show, do I think a lesbian can do that job? Of course I do. But I think what they did was said, okay, we want to hire a lesbian first, so we're going to hire the best person among lesbians, as opposed to we're going to hire the best person among lesbians, as opposed to we're going to hire the best person. That kind of thing. Now, I'm just, I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but to pretend that that kind of thing hasn't been happening in this country is disingenuous.

I don't disagree with you on that. Okay, I understand what you're saying. I shouldn't say I don't disagree with you. I understand what you're saying. But that one example, as opposed to the, hang on, as opposed to the millions of examples of people who are not diverse, as they say, who have been hired and unqualified, I think that that is, that's apples,

that's like this and that. But again, I'm answering to you why people vote for Trump, who, because if it's you, by the way. No, you're right. I understand that. If it's you, if you think you lost out on something, you're gonna be bitter about it. Like I did a thing once about how political parties are really like your lawyer.

That's how people think. Are you gonna represent me? So you might think philosophically one way about something, but for example, in San Francisco, they had a pretty woke board there for a while that they got rid of, that they got voted out because they were discriminating against Asians. And there's a lot of Asians in San Francisco. And they got rid of the merit test or the whatever, the genius test, something, because it was too many Asians were getting in and they wanted to be, and

again, this is equity, they wanted the racial quota of it to be, let me finish. No, I'm about to agree with you on something. Okay, they wanted it to be more equal. So the Asians were basically like, well, we think it's a noble goal to advance the cause of Latinos and black Americans and lots of other people. But my kid would have benefited from having this advanced program that you got rid of. So you know what? You're not my lawyer.

You're not representing me in the Court of America. And therefore, I'm gonna vote for the other guy. That's what happens a lot. No, so I understand, but you've, so a couple things here. You're saying, I'm talking to you about what diversity, equity, and inclusion actually is. Nothing that we do ever is perfect, right?

You know, your show is not perfect. So, okay, so there are issues. So you're talking that that's, let's put that aside. But you're talking about reasons that people vote for Donald Trump. I don't disagree with you, but some of those reasons are not based in reality, and they're irrational, and some of them are very rational. Right. So to vote for someone who is, who you think is looking out for you is very rational. But it doesn't mean that you're voting for that person on the basis of something that is actually factual

I mean people are not rational at all about anything Yeah, so I don't disagree with you about why people are voting for Donald Trump. I mean, do you think your life is rational? No, you don't I don't think my life is rational, but I think I'm curious about this What's so what's that life is in general if you're just talking about so... I don't think that life is, in general, if you're just talking about life, I don't think that it's... I don't think that it's rational. I just think sometimes it's very random. I couldn't agree with you more.

And you just sort of deal with the random nature of life the best way that you can, and you have a good attitude about it. You walk around all day as if you're in control, and you're not. You're not in control. Isn't that right? You walk around all day as if you are in control and you're not. You're not in control. Isn't that right? You walk around all day as if you are, but the reality is you're really not.

You're more of a jellyfish with the tide, and you go. And you handle the tide as best you can. And it's best to either, sometimes it's best to just go with the tide. Yes. Sometimes take your hands off the wheel. Right. Or if someone steps on you, sting them.

That's what I do. And hope you don't get washed up on shore. I agree 100%, and that's the time that we're in right now. What do you mean? When you said someone steps on you, sting them. Well, I'm a jellyfish. Yeah, if you're a jellyfish, but I think there are too many people

just sort of laying back and not stinging. Then like the Democrats are not stinging. No, they are definitely not. They're pathetic. That display last night at the speech, I don't know when we're dropping this, probably very soon, so it was probably last week, where, I mean, they look like auction panels

with like signs like Musk lies. Oh my God, I did that on my show today. So I said, this is what the Democrats were doing at the convention, and I wrote on a tablet, and I said, this is what the Democrats were doing at the convention. And I wrote on a piece of on a tablet and I said, Trump bad. I was like, Trump bad. And they were like, Trump bad. And I'm like, yes, Trump is bad. Must mean must be so mean. So it's like, if you're going to fight back, shouldn't you be stronger about fighting back? Oh my God. They're just, they're just, they're showing the country who are not savvy about issues why they voted

for them. Because people are instinctive about politics. No, Donald Trump is not literally true with almost anything he says. We've litigated that. They don't care. He's a liar. He lies a lot. Exactly.

They don't care. They don't take him literally don't take him literally. They take him seriously. The media takes him seriously, but not literally, but not seriously. That's somebody's great line about it. I forgot her name. It was during 2016.

When they see this, what they see is, oh, one side, I don't really understand Ukraine and lots of stuff, but one side looks so weak and disorganized and feeble, and this guy looks strong. Yeah, I think he's kind of an asshole. Do you know why? I'm not sure he's right about a lot of things, but he's strong and they're in charge and they're willing to look at things different. That's what a lot of people are seeing right now. That's what a lot of people are seeing right now. So the Democrats have got to, I mean, I've been, last week I proposed Federman.

I think he's the best one they have because he's got a pair of balls on him. He will not kowtow to the far left of his own party. He acts like a guy who's got nothing to lose because he's had a stroke. He's been through the fucking mill, and he wears shorts, he does whatever the fuck he wants. And that's what people react to, authenticity and balls. Trump has that, this guy has that, the rest of the Democrats, they just,

I mean, they're embarrassing and they're not helping themselves. And we need two parties in this country. There's a lot there, Bill. I think that Trump is, fortunately or unfortunately, able to live in an existence where he doesn't have to rely on facts. Correct. That's his superpower.

That's his superpower. Is that he lies so much and gets so much so off that it's so baked in the cake that he's not held to those standards. Like I said, they take him seriously, but not literally. Literally, but not seriously. They just assume that that's who he is. If he says Zelinsky's approval rating is 4%, it's 57. And you just go with it.

It is amazing. Because again, a lot of folks who are, especially in this streaming thing that we're in, you don't have to deal with facts, you don't have to deal with reality. And Trump sort of, Trump is a shapeshifter. He shapes reality into whatever he wants it to be. A genius. But he doesn't have to live in that. And I think Democrats demand of their people that everything has to be factual and blah,

blah, blah. One side has to hit the ball over the net. And the other side, there's no net. There's no net, and they don't care. But you know what? He created that and people and stuck with it until people just bowed down and said, okay, fine, that's it, you stuck with that, and we're gonna just, I mean,

it's an amazing accomplishment of sorts. I think the Tea Party created that. And then Donald Trump. No. I think Donald Trump just came in and. The Tea Party did not say something was 4% if it was 57%. They all have their spin and their bullshit, including some people on the left,

obviously, but not to this degree. Not like- Bill, that's what starting it means. It doesn't mean that- Just making a number up in your head that you think it should be. Well, he amplified that. I think he is a recipient of that. But you know what? I find this so boring. This is why I said I don't want him to win because, well, there are other reasons, but because I've been through this administration, I've been through this thing. It's so boring to just constantly hear people talking about what an asshole Trump is. I know. I was the

first one to say it. I'm over it. It's just fucking boring. We get it, he's bad, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, you know, I just, I don't wanna, I guess I'm done. I think you were the first to say that. He wouldn't leave. He wouldn't leave. But I was the first to actually call him a liar on TV. And I was the first to actually call him racist on TV.

And maybe that's why I'm not on TV anymore. But I do think that he was the recipient of what the Tea Party started. But he, on steroids, he was the recipient of that. But on steroids, Donald Trump says, I don't give a fuck. Don't give a fuck. And he does whatever he wants. That is so appealing.

Yeah, and amen. I think it's appealing to a degree. But I think at some point you have to give a fuck because you have to care about people. If you are a public servant, then you have to care about the people and actually working for them. I will name the person who most exemplifies.

I've been using the thing you're using. Can you mind if I use my hand? No. All right, go ahead. Unless you're gonna grab my tits with, you know, it's cold. It's too cold for that. Kanye, who is more of a, I mean, you can't get more, I don't give a fuck, than I like Hitler.

I love Hitler, whatever, all his Hitler things. You can't get more of a, and that's why he will always have a fan base somewhat similar to Trump's, because there are people who are like, damn, that guy cannot be intimidated. But is that something that's admirable? No. Of course. Should we celebrate that?

I'm not celebrating it. I'm saying, if the subject is what you were just talking about, people who don't give a fuck, I said, you know, Fetterman is kind of that guy, Trump is kind of that guy. Fetterman is more of a libertarian to me than a. Well, whatever it is, he says what he thinks. And he doesn't care if you don't like it.

Kanye, I mean, that is, to me, that's his performance art. He is at the very edge of that, like, I dare you to completely destroy me. I'm just going to say, I don't know if he even believes that shit about Hitler, but I think it's more the fact that I will say it than what he's saying. If there was something else that was more egregious, I think he would say that. But he found that thing, and that's his litmus test. And he will always have fans. Okay, so you're right if he will always have fans,

but my question is why. Why be an anti-Semite? Well, I just explained why. Not because I don't think he really cares that much about it, but because it's a way to demonstrate you cannot intimidate me into not saying anything. I think it is. I don't think it's that.

I think when people do that, it's the shortest line to the front of either promotion, and whatever sense it is, it could be promoting a product, it could be promoting themselves, and you are doing something that is out of the box to get attention just for the sake of getting attention, or just for the sake of pure ambition. Where, the same thing that I, when I see not all black Republicans, but I see a black MAGA person who is carrying Donald Trump's water and they know that he's lying. It is the shortest line to the front. Because if you're black and you're whatever,

you're just in line with a bunch of other Democrats that are doing the same thing that you're doing. But if you become a black MAGA person, it's like, whoa, let's book this person, let's put him on television. So you don't think you can be a sincere black MAGA person? No, I just said, I don't think that, I just said I think there can be sincere Republicans.

But you can't be a sincere black Republican? I don't think that you can be a rational MAGA, be black and be a rational MAGA person. I think you can be black and be a Republican. I think they would find that very insulting. Well, I mean, the truth is often insulting. That's true too. Yeah.

But yeah, I wouldn't say that. Because there are cases to be made that they're making. I never would go all the way to Donald Trump because he does not concede elections. That's my biggest issue with him. So like the Republican types who think, oh, someday Bill Maher is going to... No, no, no. Bill Maher is always going to be where Bill Maher has always been. If you change enough, yeah, you're going in the wrong

direction. But I think 20% of black men voted for Trump. Well, I think that's okay that 20% of black men voted for Trump. Can't they just think differently? Can't people just have different... Be uninformed. It's not in such a... Like you're informed about everything. You don't think anything you have is skewed. I don't think you're hearing me.

I said that I believe that black people can be Republicans. Remember, there were lots of Republicans. Frederick Douglass. It was different in those areas. It was different. I was a Republican, by the way. I started as a Republican. Is that right?

Yes. But so I think that a lot of what MAGA does is irrational and it's often based in Lies and it's not factual. It's people that you said you don't like people who are who deny elections who deny insurrections or whatever So that's the MAGA party. That is the MAGA party. I'm not saying that's we all Republican No, so for a person of color a black person To you know lend their to their, to believe in that when it is based in irrationality and a lot of it is based in racism.

For me, I have lots of questions about that. I don't question black Republicans. I understand it. I mean, do you talk to people like that? Like I had Byron Donalds on my show, maybe two weeks ago. I got to my office today and it was a lovely pin that he had sent me.

It had his name on it, an American Eagle, and you know. I like Byron. I'm just, you know, I just can't live in this country where I hate half the people who, yes, think fundamentally differently about a lot of things. I've said this here before. We have to be able to get to this point

where you can say to somebody who you agree with A, B, C, D, but E, whoa, how could they believe in E if we both believe in A, B, C, and D? And it is a conundrum, but it does happen in human nature. And you just have to be able to go, okay, we have different upbringings, different influences in our life, different, I don't know, metabolism.

Different, we're just different. And we come to different conclusions. I understand that, Bill. And it can't be so. But it doesn't, because I can see what is happening and I live in reality, it doesn't mean that I hate anyone. I don't hate anyone. I don't hate Donald Trump.

I don't hate MAGA. But I understand that MAGA is based on that you were not born in this country. MAGA is based on Mexicans are rapists. MAGA is based on that Donald Trump did not inspire an election. MAGA is based on Donald Trump didn't try to overturn an election. MAGA is based on Donald Trump, they don't believe that he was found guilty in a court of law. So it's built on lies. So that's why I question that. To understand and to be able to see through that, it doesn't mean that you hate people. It just means that you're being rational and logical.

As I said, I think they're black Republicans. I was one. I think that's all fine. But I think that MAGA is... I think it's problematic and it's based on lies and racism. And that doesn't mean I hate those people. I actually kind of feel sorry for them. Yeah.

I mean, it's not untrue. There is racism in it and there are certainly a lot of lies. So what do you do in the morning, John? Are you an early riser? John, it's time for our cooking segment. I don't know if you know this, but I make a mean omelet that I think you... Moving on.

No, tell me about your day. I'm not a morning person. Me neither. I hate the morning. I hate waking up in the morning. I like to wake up in the afternoon. I'm like... All the way into the afternoon. I like to rise at the crack of noon. My father used to say that.

Usually I like to rise at about 11, maybe 10, but 11. Because I am a night owl. Exactly what I do. Right. But now, because I want people to be informed about what's happening, I think we have to have an informed electorate. I wake up at like 8, 8.30. I do a live 10 o'clock show on YouTube, the Don Lemon show. Every day I do a live show, live stream.

Why is it gotta be so early? 10 a.m. Because most people are starting their day and are going about their day and I think they need to be informed and I think that there was a need for content there and for people to understand what was happening. And I don't think anyone was fulfilling that.

I'm so lucky I only have to show up in makeup once a week at four o'clock on Friday after. Well I used to have to show up in makeup at nine o'clock Eastern every night and that's it and then go on at 10. But that, I mean that's fulfilling for you, that was fulfilling for me at the moment. But this is what's fulfilling to me now. And I do a live stream.

A live stream, a live show, every day at 5 Eastern as well. I do two live shows a day. Working my ass off. I'm glad it all came out in the wash for you. No, because for a while there, like CNN, there was just lots of, it's amazing how much they cover what goes on at CNN and MSNBC,

considering that their ratings are not exactly through the roof. But I mean. It's a good point. But you know, it's the media. The media loves the media. But we heard everything about you and Chris Cuomo. You know, it was just always this, oh, the Sturm and Drung and it's being taken over

by this guy and this guy and he was fired. We got to get CNN. I mean, CNN is such a...and I'm on CNN now. They reshow my show on Saturday night. I mean, CNN is such, and I'm on CNN now. They re-show my show on Saturday night. I'm thrilled about it. But that's one thing that's also, when people do that, that's a sign of your relevance. It does, it is.

Where you are in the culture. Right. And so you don't hear that much anymore, do you? Not, well, yeah. I mean, they definitely have to find their footing again. I think the guy that got there now is heading in the right direction. And I mean, Don, when they said to me,

we want to put your show on CNN, I said, what about all the fucks? And they said, they don't care. And I'm like, they don't care? CNN? I'm like, wow. Do they beep it? No.

I'm like, this world has changed. When I first went on The Tonight Show, you couldn't say ass. And now you can say fuck on CNN? I mean, I try to keep the cunts to the minimum. I mean, I'm not an unreasonable man. You know, it's a word that I would never even think about saying. It's a great word.

And people say that I love that word. It's a great word. It's a word that I would never even think of saying. I think the gays should take it over. It's hard for us to do that because the gays love women. I know, but the British use it in a way that isn't demeaning, you know. But it's different, the British press,

they have a different sense of everything. Couldn't we call the asshole like the man cunt or something and it would be kind of fun. The munt. You're such a munt. Or I want to get in that munt tonight. You know, I mean, it could also be sexy. That's what I'm saying.

No, that's gross. I don't think that would appeal to any. Wow. You're turning red and you're a black man. Rust. Rust. It's unbelievable. We have a word for would appeal to any... Wow. You're turning red and you're a black man. Rust. Rust. It's unbelievable. We have a word for that. The gays have a word for that. Do you want to hear it?

I want to know everything about it. It's called Bussy. Bussy. That's better. Yeah. What's the B for? Boys? Wait, what am I getting wrong? Pussy, I get that part.

B. I don't know. I really don't know. Am I stoned? How do men have sex? What do they do if they do? Usually. They do it in the naughty place. What is a naughty place called?

The ass, the booty? Or the butt. The butt, butt. Okay. Okay. All right, well there's lots of words for it. You can't hate me that much for that, I get it. What do you, like anthropomologically,

what do you make of like. Anthropologically. Thank you, John, I need a real anchor here to help me with that. We can do a show together. I got a rash here when the me with that. We can do a show together. I could harass you when the cameras went off. Anyway, anthropologists always say, why is there a homosexual element to nature?

Please, it's a wonderful thing. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. It's just different. You don't have to preface it. Just ask me the question. It's just counterintuitive. Why would you have a certain segment of the population that isn't for repopulating? And if you had to start from scratch, would you have sex where the shit comes out?

That kind of thing. Well, I mean, if you look in nature, the homosexuality is in it. Even in animals. Even in animals. And sometimes there are two members of the same sex who can actually repopulate or whatever. But sex is not necessarily for- Oh, worms? Yeah.

I think worms. Sex is not necessarily for repopulation because, I mean, how many kids do you have? I've never been married. Okay. I'm way behind on that. How often have you had sex? Today? Yeah.

Zero. Okay. And have you helped to repopulate the Earth? No, I'm really actively against it. I rest my case. Yeah, no, but I'm just talking about nature. It feels good. No, but I'm talking about nature. Like nature usually, I mean, you believe in evolution

and all that. Of course. Of course, okay, so like everything in nature seems to be driven toward just this, like it's very often cruel how animals kill each other and the way they die off. And if you lose a step in nature, you know, I mean, if you lose a step on the jets, you get cut.

But if you lose a step in nature, you die. You know, nature's cruel like that. You know what I mean? So like everything has a purpose. And everything seems to be just to keep the fucking species going. It's just, what is the anthropological, anthropological, thank you, explanation for that?

It's just, it's interesting, right? The anthropological explanation of homosexuality? Yeah. I don't know. Like why does nature want this? Nature obviously wants this element. I don't know if nature wants it. I think it is what it is.

To keep the population. Maybe it's population control. Is that what you're gonna say? Yeah. Maybe it's population control. Is that what you're going to say? Maybe it's population control. Maybe it is not such an egregious thing, except for religion. Correct. It's not egregious at all. Okay. So then that's what I'm saying. So why does nature want it? Maybe nature wants it because it actually feels good and because it's actually normal and because of people's religious beliefs

in this whole chortanical thing. Religion is totally the villain in this one. Some people like you, remember we had this conversation the other week at a party? A couple things. We did? At a party? Wait a second. We were at a party and I think that you were…

Oh, I know, the Grammys. Yeah, we were at the Grammys. Oh, remember I was torturing the poor Ari Melber? Yeah. Because you look so fly and I look good. And then somebody else came in and Ari wore the wrong jacket. And I love Ari. Not a schlub, but he just- It was a slubby jacket. I love Ari. Don't get me wrong. We're friends. It was a slubby jacket. I just said, this is Hollywood. You know, we know this shit. Yeah. And I told him, I said, Ari, you need a gay friend, remember? Yes, I do. You need a gay best friend.

Yes, you need a gay friend. Anyway, so we were at this party. And we were talking about, like, you know, I think we were talking about attraction and who we were dating or something. Right. And I don't know if it was you. Maybe it was you.

I don't know. But you were like, you are a heterosexual. Some white guy. Some guy. You are a heterosexual guy. You're not attracted to men and that's okay, but there are some men who may choose to spend their life married to a woman, being in relationship with a woman, but they may find gay sex appealing. In the bathroom at the Four Seasons in Maui.

But if we didn't have such a thing about it, they wouldn't have to do that. Of course. Yeah. Oh, I know. And the same thing, I mean, maybe there are some gay men, maybe once in a while I might like to hang out with a woman. Oh, they all do.

Yeah, once in a while. I do, I mean, I like boobs. Really? Yeah, I like boobs, I think they're beautiful, I like the way they look. Yeah, they're okay. You're an ass man. No, I mean, talking about this conversation is getting weird, Mrs. Robinson, but I like the midsection. Like if I had to pick, yes.

You like the V? You like the cha-cha? Or the midsection of the body. Yeah, like from the, I'm not against any of it. I love women, like trust me, I'm like the last guy who's gonna experiment with your side of the street. That was our conversation, I told you. Right, and that's just, it's okay, there's a spectrum. There truly is a spectrum. I mean, I'm totally on that page.

But you know how I know that you are 100% homosexual? I mean heterosexual, excuse me, another 100% heterosexual? It's because you're okay with it and you get it. Totally. Like you cannot make yourself be with someone that you're not attracted to. No, no, no. I mean, do you think it's wrong if a person

asking for a friend doesn't even really like to watch gay sex in like, say, a movie? No. I mean, I think it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. PDA makes me uncomfortable. You know, seeing a man and a woman kiss on television or movie doesn't make me uncomfortable. But sometimes in public, I'm like, okay, guys, I don't really need to see. Right. I agree. And maybe it's my internalized homophobia, but sometimes it makes me uncomfortable to see like two men kissing or whatever. And I'm like, why don't I feel that about women

because it's much more accepted in culture and society. And guys are like, oh my gosh, this is hot. And so I think maybe it's just sort of environment and training. You know, I was watching Breakfast at Tiffany's the other day. Have you ever seen it? Wait, are you sure you're not gay now?

You're watching Breakfast at Tiffany's? In the kitchen. I tape things in the kitchen. I watch it like 15 minutes at a time when I'm making food. Have you ever seen it? Yeah, of course. So awesome. I had never seen it? Yeah, of course. So awesome. I had never seen it.

That's how not gay I am. You've never seen it. I just watched it. Yeah, because it always looked kind of gay. I'm kidding. No, it can't just be. It's actually not. I forget.

It's so good. Who's the guy in it? What's his name? George Pappard. Pappard. Went on to be the lead in the A-Team 80s. This was 1961 Audrey Hepburn Truman Capote a gay author, his book and I always knew it was about she's like a hooker It's so interesting like a hooker in 19... She's a gal about town. Well, you know what it was

This is so it was in 1960. Maybe the book she was a hooker but not in the mood. No, no, no No, it was true to the book. Here's what it was? This is 1960. Maybe the book she was a hooker, but not in the mood that she was a gal about to tell. No, no, no, it was true to the book. Here's what it is. In 1961, gentlemen give her $50 when she goes to the powder room, which maybe you'd tip a dollar. Now $50 in 1961 was like 500.

So that's as close as they could get to say that she was a hooker. And then, I mean, there's no sex in it. And he is why I never knew I knew that about the movie, because it's so famous. He's a fucking whore, too. He's a whore, too. He's a hooker. Not a hooker. But there's this older woman who like writes him checks. So they're both fucking whores. I mean sex workers because they're the new group

that sends the Oscars now. Oh man, the Oscars had a good night for whores. Am I wrong? I mean. Bill, what happens if you have to pee on Club Random? Oh, you just hold it. No, no, no, go ahead. I can't hold it any longer.

No, no, I'll wait. Hold it's right here, right? Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah right there No, no, I've done it myself. I mean Pete not like Pete on camera No, no, there's no cameras in there that I know of. That's so good of you, Don. I love that we're having the interview continue while you're in the bathroom because this is a first for Club Random. But I don't dislike it.

And you're such a pro. Such a pro. A lot of people will not continue the interview while they're peeing. You can put it on TV if you want. I don't give a shit. Well. I didn't like, you know, it wasn't

or anything like that. Honestly, Dom, they're not watching this for the guest. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha You like still working? I'm so happy you came here. I appreciate you make it make. No, I'm just telling you, I'm happy you came here. I appreciate you made the effort. I'm glad I'm getting to know you. First you do such a progression. I'd like to hang out with you. We go, but that's how it happens.

People sometimes see me out with somebody, like, how do you guys know each other? I'm always like, you know what, I don't remember. And here's how it happened. First you do real time. OK, great, you know, that's on the air. We talked a little after the show. Fine, but you know, you don't wanna bum rush people. Hey, let's be friends right away.

Then you see them at a party, you talk a little more. Then you come here, you talk a little more. Friendships have to happen organically. I mean, how'd you meet your husband? I agree. I met my husband at a restaurant slash bar. So, no, it's weird. Well, most restaurants have a bar.

It's kind of a bougie story. Do you wanna hear it? Yeah, I really do. So, I was renting with friends in the Hamptons one summer. And we were renting in Bridgehampton. And on Friday night, this is a restaurant called Almond in Bridgehampton. What year is this?

This is 2014, 2015. 2015. 2014 and 2015. 2015. And so I was renting and then on Friday night, this restaurant called Almond, on Friday night, it's gay night. And so you go, everybody's there,

all the gays that you would know, famous gays, not famous gays, everybody. And the other night, it's hetero? Heterosexual. Boy, I feel bad for the guy who gets his days wrong. They do, that happens, and they walk in, yes, it happens, and they're like, holy shit, what's going on? Really?

Yeah, so I'd rented the year before that, but I didn't go to the bar or whatever because I was just kind of like getting used to whatever. So we rented in 2015. I'm like, I was single. I was just starting CNN. I was like, you know, in prime time, it was great. I was living the life.

And then so I was there one night and I met this guy. He had a boyfriend. He talked to me or whatever. So I met my, when I met my now husband, he had a boyfriend. I'm not a home wrecker. And so we became friends. And I had this, is this going on too long? I had this inflatable paddle board

that I would take with me to the beach. And I couldn't get it back, this sounds so bougie, because I would go to the Hamptons in a helicopter. Because I bought these things in a helicopter and it was too heavy for the helicopter and he drove back because he actually grew up in the Hamptons. Damn that DEI. Yeah, I know. So he grew up in the Hamptons and he took my paddleboard in the car back to the city

and it sat in his apartment for a year. Why did he take it? Because he was in a car. The weight was too heavy for a year. And then- Why did he take it? Because he was in a car. The weight is too heavy for the helicopter. Okay. And so he had a car, he drove it back. It sat in his apartment for a year. And I would see him at events and he'd go,

you gotta get your paddle board. I'm like, yeah, I'm so sorry you can bring it. He goes, I had no big deal. And so then the next summer, I bought a house there. And so because his family is from there, he would start to come over to the house. We became friends and one day in the summer, he came over in the morning, we went for a run.

And I said, you know you're gonna be my husband one day, right? He's like, wait, what? And I just had this sort of premonition thing. So he came over at like nine in the morning and we went for a run. And then at nine at night, he was still there. We had spent the day together

and he was still seeing someone. And I said, I'm not a home record. Whatever you're seeing somebody, I can't see you anymore because I'm starting to have feelings and this is weird, I didn't realize it. And so he's like, okay. And then like a month later, he broke up with his boyfriend. We went out on our first date.

Sounds like you are a homewrecker. On election night. Sounds exactly like what a homewrecker does. No, I told him not to. It was his decision to break up with his boyfriend. We went on our first date, election night 2016. Well, okay. When Trump was elected.

That's exactly what a homewrecker does. They say, I have feelings for you, and they plant that seed, and the guy's like, okay, I've been with this person for a while, it's kind of tired because we've been there for a while, and I'd really be trading up, and it's hot, and I know it's gonna be hot, so yes. And you should not feel guilty about that.

That is human nature. I'm gonna give you that, maybe you're right. That's human nature. We're all in the jungle, okay? And we all know there's no give you that, maybe you're right. That's human nature. We're all in the jungle, okay? And we all know there's no morality in love and war. We just are out there. And so good. So, and it lasted 10 years, obviously.

Well, it was election night 2016, almost 10 years. And we got, we went on a date. It was funny because we were at this huge, can I tell you about this party? Yeah. You know who was holding the party? He did. No, close.

Kanye? No. Think about one more. Movies. R. Kelly. No. Okay, I'm hoping for the movies. Harvey Weinstein.

Oh, you're doing worse than those three. Seriously, so Harvey Weinstein invited Oh, boy. He was worse than those three. Seriously. So Harvey Weinstein invited me to a party, an election night watch party at Cipriani in New York City. And I wasn't on that night because that's when the political folks were all on. And so I said, sure, I'll go. And then I asked my now husband, Tim, if he wanted to go.

And he said, sure. And so we walked in a little bit early. We met like downtown and we walked in. And he was not used to going out with me. He had, you know, didn't know. And he, you know, they expand the tables. They put like a board on top of the table. And he sat down and kicked it over. That was our first night. And so then, you know, that- Didn't that give you the egg? No, I mean, it was obvious. Like, he was embarrassed. But then, you know, who was there? Governor Cuomo was there. Miles Teller was there. Martha Stewart was there, like just all the folks. And they were all like, many of the people that were like, oh, she's got she's got Florida.

No, no, she's got piss. She's got that. And I'm looking at the scene and then going... So Tim and I looked at each other and said, let's get the fuck out of here. So then we went to the Polo Bar to meet my agent. And then that was our first date. And that's where our reception was at the Polo Bar. Well, I must say, I find this story very inspiring. Boring. No, no, no, not boring at all. Inspiring, because I'd always thought of gay men having sex or something that happens immediately.

That this whole like- Oh, you think you hook up the first night. This whole, but we don't have to leave the bar for- That's lesbians. Lesbians, they hook up the first night and then the U-Haul happens the next day. There were people even at the height of the AIDS crisis who said bathhouses, I'm sorry,

that's the whole point of this lifestyle, and I don't want to give that up, even though AIDS was like a sword of Damocles over their heads. Okay, can I tell you something that I think may surprise you? But I know, I'm being facetious. No, no, no, not really, you're not wrong about that.

No, there is that element in the gay world, but it is not the vast majority of gay people who when they finally did pass gay marriage and we saw them showing up at courthouses and sweatshirts and looking schlubby like the rest of us. That's what America went, oh, okay. It is just as everyone else. I think people should be having fun

and I've certainly, look, I have gone to heterosexual swingers clubs. So the heterosexuals are just as kinky as the gay people, maybe even more. But I think that that was a part of gay culture and I actually liked it when gay people were kind of, you know, a little bit different, a little bit of, you know what I mean, we were kind of dangerous or whatever. And now we've become so heteronormative, it's boring sometimes. Most of my friends have kids. And so I understand that.

And if you're a two-man and you're just having fun, I don't put a judgment on sex and what people do. As long as it's two consenting adults, I don't really give a shit. But there still is something about, to me, the look mostly of a gay man. One of my first jokes was about, why are they, I would love to be mistaken for a gay man.

Why are they better looking? And the joke was, you know, does you become gay and then get good looking or do great looking guys just look in the mirror and go, oh, I'm not wasting this on chicks. I think it's both. Now look at the competition, as you said, so you gotta like take care of your body. You at the competition, as you said.

So you gotta like take care of your body. You gotta look good if you're a gay man. There's lots of competition. There's a certain look, like agents have a certain look. Don't you think? They really do. You can spot them a mile a fucking way. They have the suit coat on, and the leisure pants,

and the sneakers, and the sport jacket. I can't even put it in words, but it's just something, it's a good haircut, I don't know. And then, yeah. You think gay men have a certain look? Better looking, yes. Like clean and like better skin. And I just think there's something maybe that is connected

with whatever makes someone gay with the skin. I do. I do. It's not a dermatologist. As someone who's struggled with skin problems. Seriously. But you know. I understand what you're saying. Some people are going to say my knees being very sort of stereotypical and whatever, but because we come in all shifts. No, they're generally better looking. The out ones are generally better looking. Right. Good point.

Because there are a lot of them that are not out and they're not generally better looking. Right. Good point. Because there are a lot of them that are not out and they're not generally better looking. I'm sure that's true too. Yeah. I can't disagree with you on that. That's probably something from a bygone era that I'm always trying to yell at people for zombie lies.

It may be a zombie lie. You're right. But now you don't. When I wrote that joke, people weren't out. No. Yeah. Now weren't out. No. Yeah. Now people are out. Now, absolutely.

I don't think anyone gives a shit. Nobody does. Well, there are certain people. The criticism of me, if you read the comments on my channel or whatever on social media, it's always something that's gay, he's a homo, it's whatever, he's blowing people, whatever. Children use whatever they have to get you.

If you're fat, again, I don't think they even, Jew, whatever, they don't care that much about what it is. It's just a cudgel to hit you with. So if they can use that one, they will. I wouldn't trip on that. I mean, but do you read your social media a lot? No, but my, the guys send me like, oh my gosh, they'll say this one, this one was really good.

This one wasn't so great. This one like, oh my God, I can't believe the trolls on that. And then, but when I'm on the difference between, pardon me, being on linear television and doing what I'm doing, I see, I can see the audience. The numbers are there, it's in real time. It's not just minute to minute that you get the Neilsen ratings. It's in real time, so I can see how people are engaged

and I'm reading the comments from the people who are streaming with us at the same time. So you know it's much closer to the bone than television. It's much more real. I was telling you. Can you do that? You follow it along like that? I follow it along, but I don't let the engagement determine what I'm talking about or what I think is important just

because the audience is absolutely 100%. You really think you trust yourself that much to see what they're liking and not go with the likes? Yeah, they didn't like what I said about Joe Biden during the election. They didn't like some of the things I said about Kamala Harris with the likes. Yeah, they didn't like what I said about Joe Biden during the election. They didn't like some of the things I said about Kamala

Harris during the election. They didn't like that I was interviewing people as I was going around the country during the election. And there were a lot of people telling me, I heard a lot of Trump out there. And so I knew before everyone else, I'm hearing a lot of Trump. I contacted the campaign.

I'm like, you guys have a problem with black men. Never contacted me back. But I knew before that they were in trouble and my subscribers didn't really like it. And I said, you may not like it. I want you to stick with me, but I'm not going to tell you something just because I think you want to hear it. I'm always going to be honest with you. And a lot of the streamers and podcasters who are more progressive or to the left or center,

whatever, they lost a lot of subscribers after the election. I didn't, it was the exact opposite, and I think that's because I was honest with my audience. So yes, I can be honest with myself. I mean, that's certainly my formula. It is your formula. But I mean, I would not trust myself.

You wouldn't. They had a billboard here. You're a ratings whore? I am the opposite. My billboard says, he's not in it for the likes. That's the catch word. Yeah. And, you know, I'm sure there were snarky people

on the left who was like, yeah, that's right Bill. That's, you know, that's why we hate you. No, I mean, it's a way of saying, you can't buy me. And that's, so if you're on that page, we need more of that. I am, thank you, I appreciate that. And I appreciate the platform that you have. When people ask me, what do you want to do, what's your ultimate goal?

And I said, I would like to have a platform like Bill Maher. I don't want to be Bill Maher. But where there's honesty, you said earlier, you can't do that in television. I think folks in television now should start serving people what they want instead of what they think that they want. Instead of what the bosses and the people in the C-suite want. No, you can be honest on television.

I'm totally, I'm roofing you. Oh, you have no idea what's going to happen after this. No, ding, I drink it. It's a way to make just regular sparkling water into tasty diet soda. Oh, God, okay. So you were saying about linear television and what? I was. Is that water?

That's tequila. Tequila. You're putting it in tequila? Yeah, well, it's like if you mixed it with diet Coke, it would have its flavor to it. This just puts a flavor to it. You want some? Jing, I drink it.

I'll try it. I usually just like, you know, my- What are you drinking there? Nothing? Reposado, Casa Azul, Reposado with some lime. Jesus, you are gay. Yeah. Reposado, what the fuck is that?

It's a darker, smokier tequila than a Blanco. Oh. No, what you can do, you can be honest on television, what you can't do is veer from a conversation like we're having right now to the one of, really? It tastes like a fricking 7-Up now. What did you do? Like a F like a fricking 7-Up now. What did you do? Like a Fanta.

People like 7-Up. They're deluded with this. It's just too, it's just too. No, I would like this maybe if I'm drinking water during the day, I'm not, I don't think I necessarily wanted it. I think you'll like it after that. Oh wait, no, I would prefer a sparkling.

I'm gonna do a sparkling. Oh, okay. What were you saying? I'm saying you can be honest on TV. What you can't do is have a conversation veer from the State of the Union address to what should we call a man's asshole. No, no, no. Because that's life.

It just flows where it flows. And then it comes back and we talk. Like, no agenda. I could have called this show no agenda, no notes, you know, I'm high, whatever it was. That's what you can't do on TV. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying it should go in that.

What I'm saying is, is that people should be more honest in their conversations. And because in conversations, people say dumb things, they make mistakes. Yes. And I don't think people should be canceled for that. I think that, I actually think in television, they should be applauded for that because it makes better television.

People should, but if shoulds and buts were beer and nuts, we'd have a hell of a party. But I also think that linear television would not be quite in the position that it is now with people who are unsubscribing or people who are cutting the cord if they actually had more interesting people on more people like you and more people like me. Right. And they said, we're not going to cancel, we're not going to go for the woke left or the woke right. You know there's a woke right, right?

Of course. There's a woke right. Oh, totally. There always was. They canceled Colin Kaepernick faster than anybody. Trump canceled AP, the Associated Press, because they wouldn't call it the stupid Gulf of America. Oh, well they threw him out of the press room.

They can't. Do you think it's kind of canceling them? Mr. Free Speech? No. I mean, newspapers are kind of dead anyway. I mean, people read them. The Associated Press is not the newspaper. I get my stuff from the Associated Press.

I have respect for them. Oh, yeah, I do too. I just don't know. All I ever read about is how newspapers are dying. And again, the Times is doing well because they went with that model that I was describing before. How do our readers want to interpret this story and then write the story that way? That's the difference between the New York Times of today and 20 years ago. want to interpret this story, and then write the story that way. That's the difference between the New York Times of today and 20 years ago. Don't you think, I'm glad you mentioned that,

because I forgot about this earlier, but don't you think that's kind of your show? You're the interpreter on the show. Yeah, but I'm not pretending to be a newspaper. It's an opinion show. It's a debate show. That's not a newspaper. If I was a newspaper,

I would just try to keep it as much down the middle as I could. I give my opinion on everything. When the Democrats are, as they were under Obama, I thought much more sane and not championing silly things. I was much more always on their side. Then they became crazy woke about a lot of bullshit, and I wasn't going to hold my tongue like a lot of people did, just because it, you know, oh, it's our team. There's no teams. I'm on team what's real. And you know, all the time when I'm out, like I was at the Vanity Fair Oscar party the other

night. Oh, my friend invited me. I didn't go. I wasn't in. Why? I was in New York. Lee Daniels said, do you want to be my date to the Vanity Fair? I've gone. I just didn't. I was in New York. What? What a dick. So I've gone? Of course. Why?

Why? Because it's like this town, people think it's such a party town. Show them this. It's not. This is like the one weekend a year people party. I flew in on Monday night, it was so boring. I'm always amused, like every year somebody's always like, Kukoi, what happened at the Vanity Fair party? What happened to it? Everybody came to it.

That's what happened to it. Everybody comes to it. If you didn't see somebody there, it's because they didn't want to see you. Wait till the magazine comes out in two months and they have pictures. Everybody was there. It's one of the few times here in the petting zoo we call the Hollywood Zoo, you see all the stars in the same room. It's just fun.

It's just feels great. Everybody's like fucking dressed to the nines. You know, all the tension from the show is over. The winners are there and they are beaming and the losers, okay, they lost, but that fucking shit is over. Timothee Chalamet, it didn't look like he was suffering. You know, I mean, the chicks are dressed like crazy. They always turn up, if you're a 10, you turn it up to 11 on Oscar night.

Now you're making me feel bad that I'm a girl. Yes, and you would have went with Lee Daniels. That's cool. Lee's a friend. He's good. He's a really good friend. You know what people would be very surprised to know about me if I once did one of those 25 things

you don't know about me things. I've seen all the Tyler Perry movies. But I haven't. I haven't. I love Tyler, but I haven't seen all the movies. But you were mentioning, you were talking about the I'm getting it now from the left. They're like, Bill, what are we going to do? And my answer is, well, there's not much you can do. Elections matter.

You lost all the branches of government. So what can you do? I mean, apropos of this speech the other night, show up with the paddles that you were very amusingly making fun of. And then some people wore pink. And then some people wore pink. And then some people wore white for Ukraine. It's like they look so disorganized and weak.

But there's a way to do it that they're not doing it. And I think they feel weak. And I also think the people, then look, again, I don't wanna keep beating up on the Democrats. But I do think, I'm not a Democrat, I'm an independent. I do, I wanna keep beating up on them. I think that a Democrat, I'm an independent. I do. I want to keep leading up on that. I think that they should be the bulwark between us and democracy and craziness, and they're not very good at it. I think that they have people in place who are not very good at leadership.

Look, Hakeem Jeffries can hate me, people are mad at me. I don't think he's the person that should be leading the Democratic Party. You know what? Someone who I'm very close to, who is one of the savviest political people I know said that exact thing. I just don't. I think behind the scenes, he's very good. He's very good at, I'm sure, negotiating and coming up with a plan. I feel the same way about, I love Nancy Pelosi.

I think she's a very smart woman. But I think that era of the Nancy Pelosi type in the Democratic Party is over. I think that this is the era of whether... And I didn't like her policies at first, and I'm not necessarily in love with their policies, but people love AOC. People love Jasmine Crockett. People love Eric Swalwell and the like. And I think that the Democratic Party should put the people out there who the people want. They should put the politicians out there who the people want. They should put the politicians out there who the people want, who they're asking for, who are meeting the moment with the same energy

that they've got. They're not asking for AOC. Yes, they are. The people you party with are. No, no, no. The people I party with don't like AOC. Oh, please. No, they don't at all. Well, most people don't. She's very far left.

Let me tell you why I'm saying that. Because AOC, because people will vote for AOC and Donald Trump on the same ticket because they're authentic. No, because they're authentic. I don't think that, that, Don. I think you're wrong about that. What people like about people like Trump and Federman is they're not, because it's irrelevant to her life. But you don't know her life.

I know that being a gorgeous woman who I wouldn't even know was Hispanic in a city that has a million Hispanics and does not treat them badly. But that doesn't mean she doesn't struggle. That doesn't mean that she was set down. It implies it. But that doesn't mean that she was set down

in Hispanic ghetto in the Bronx and had to deal with that growing up and that she's come from a working class family. It implies that in some way she's behind the eight ball because of that and it's just not true. I don't know if she's behind the eight ball, but I don't think she's as privileged as many people who are in Congress right now. Is that privilege or not? She was a bartender.

Yeah. So I was a delivery boy. I don't agree with her policies, but I'm saying sometimes, like, just Bill, like you don't agree with Donald Trump's policies. No. But that's what the people want. Some of them. Whether you like her or not, I don't like what she did with Amazon in New York, but

I think AOC is a Democratic icon. If you think that's the direction, the country should... I'm not saying the policies that she espouses, that's the direction, but I'm saying that you have to give the people who are out front speaking for the party, not the people who are... She's evolving. Yeah, she's evolving as we all are. And she is moving into right She understands the game a little bit more and if you notice she is sort of becoming a sort of normal

Kind of Democrat in many ways. Yeah, I think she's a very smart tactic. She's very smart Let's get behind that another one who's doing that Gavin Newsom who I've always been a fan of and thought always could and should be president And then I recently had a conversation with somebody and I said, gosh, I've always been hoping Gavin would move toward the center and it doesn't seem to be happening. And then as if I had just manifested it,

I see this headline somebody sent me a few days ago. Gavin Newsom name checked me in how much he wanted to, how he wanted to move. Because he's starting a podcast. Yes. Where he wants to talk to dissenting voices. Talk to everybody.

So I'm like, thank you, Jesus. This is the direction we want to go. So if you can get AOC there toward the middle, but again, for the people that come up to me, Bill, what are we gonna do? Well, you can't do much because you lost all the levers of power. What you can do, the thing that you can do is get on your side to not look crazier than him. That's all you can do. Now go back to your $800 four plate dinner. Why are you worrying about how the world is going to end?

What are you saying? You don't want to look as crazy as he does? That's the only thing liberals can do. Just don't be... Don't do shit that makes people go, Oh, Trump, he's just crazy, but at least he doesn't... And then whatever the crazy story of the day is from. So you're making my point. The other side should.

I don't believe that they should not be as crazy. Why not? Crazy in what way? Like the guy who was shaking his cane? You said the only thing that Democrats should be is not be as crazy as Donald Trump. But why not? Yes, not hold policy positions and beliefs and support silly things that are crazier. Not to give it away, but I guess it'll air before this does.

Friday night, my thing that I was just working on is about the Oscars. I saw it started with a land acknowledgement. That's the kind of thing that makes people roll their eyes. The land acknowledgement, I guess that part was it. It's like when you're at some place like the Oscars and before you can even start, you have to acknowledge that this is the land that we are standing on that really belongs to the proud Chumash people.

And it's like, as I said, either give it back or shut the fuck up. So every day, there's some little thing like that that the left does. And it may not be politicians. I mean, Democratic politicians weren't really for defund the police, but it got out there that that was what the liberal woke thing was. And so it just gets in people's heads. Oh, defund the police, but it got out there that that was what the liberal woke thing was. And so it just gets in people's heads. Oh, defund the police. That's not really something that's going to help my life a lot. I mean, I know people who are very liberal who said to me, son of Ocher, when Trump won, I'm not unhappy that the police are going to get their

morale back. You. You know? It would be an interesting thing though. Where do you live? I live in New York. Oh, you live in New York. So, we've had a really tough time out here with not just the fires, but the crime, even before the fires. I've seen it.

I'm hearing it now. Like people who never ever said, I don't really want to go to that restaurant. They demure now when you ask them to a restaurant in a part of town they consider a little too dangerous. I have not witnessed that in LA. Or they don't wear watches when they go out. You mean in New York City? No, here. Here, oh okay.

They don't want to live like that. You know, where they, I mean, there's been like robberies and broad daylight on Rodeo Drive, you know. Where you just get this creepy feeling that, wow, the whole order is broken up. And we elected a very different DA here. You know, like, we're gonna, we're gonna, crime's gonna be illegal again.

Here in LA, was basically what he ran on. So... I don't know a lot of that if I can disagree with you on, because this is where the conservative side of me comes out. Like, I think people should be tough on crime. As a someone who has witnessed one of those people running out of the CVS or the pharmacy in a big bag, it is very disconcerting and that should not happen. I wish, I should say, I wish that would not happen and it shouldn't happen.

And so, but there are things that go beyond that that I think about, like, how do we help this person not having to feel like they need to go to rob a place? And I think for me, there are folks who think about those things just further beyond just like, what is the problem? But what is the solution? And I think for me, you're not going to like this. But I think the party that's looking out for that now, whether they are terrible or doing it the wrong way, is a Democratic party. I don't disagree that we should look at the reason why that crime happens in the first

place. So I think that... But it changes, I bet, when you have kids. But to get around, I'm glad that I think LA, you said a DA, a district attorney, right? Elected a district attorney that can go up against a liberal or whatever mayor and that they can somehow work it out, right? Elected a district attorney that can go up against a liberal or whatever mayor, and that they can somehow work it out, right? They'll have a consensus, and it won't be in a grief vest. And so I think that that's good, actually.

Do you have kids? I don't have kids, that I know about. Because you'd see it would be impossible with the whole penis in the. No, no, you act like I've never been with a woman. What are you talking about? I don't know. I assume a gay man hasn't. No, there are different levels of gay. Oh, so like you were not gay for a while, like when you were young and figuring it out?

So there's like a gay... I forget, but like the platinum is that you've never been with a woman, like... And then there's like a gold, and something out of the actual things. But there are certain levels of gay. Wow, there's so many award shows in this town. But, okay, so how old are you now? Should I tell my age? You look great, so it doesn't matter. It's a mood point.

All right, I am 59 years old. Just turned, possibly. Awesome, you look amazing. Thank you. I tell you, gay don't crack. But do I have that right? Okay. Awesome. You look amazing. Thank you. I tell you, gay don't crack. But do I have that right?

Okay. No, you look amazing for that. But so when was the last year you had sex with a woman? Oh, no, it's been since the 90s. Okay. Early 2000s. Okay. No, late 90s.

Let's put it that way. It's been a while, but I've been with women. We'll say right around the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Just to give a late 90s. Perhaps. Yeah, a Columbine or something like that. I mean, blowjobs were in the news. Yeah. And you were like-

I said, hey, why not? Right. So you weren't a kid when you completely swore off- In my 20s. I didn't swear. What the fuck? The punani. The fuck. I didn't swear it off.

I was just like, hey, there's something else. I'd rather have the. I honestly never understood bisexuality. I know it exists and I know it's, maybe it's more normal than me. I just never understood like, hey, maybe a guy. That's, you know, again, because I'm there on the spectrum. I'm way understood like maybe a guy that's you know again because

I'm there on the spectrum. I'm way over here on the spectrum. Like again, when you're 70 and you've never been married, I've said this before, it's either because you don't like girls or you like them a lot. But I gotta tell you I'm kind of gay and I have been with women before but I really like being alone. Doesn't mean I don't love my marriage but I love, I love being alone. So't mean I don't love my marriage, but I love, I love living alone. So how do you handle that in a marriage? It's really tough for me.

I gotta be honest, it's really tough for me. I could not agree more. Because I am so used to, I didn't get married until I was. You gotta save up your charm. 58 years old. For when you see the person. You can't be charming every day of the year. You just can't.

But your confirmed bachelor's, you said if a guy's 70s, either gay or what would you say? I'd say either you don't like girls or you like them a lot. Yes. Okay, so you're on the I like them a lot part. I do. I like them a lot. And so there could have been that element for me on the other side. That was part of it. But part of the biggest part of it is that I liked myself and I liked being alone. I loved living alone, but I also love having a husband. But there are times when I say.

Did his family accept you readily and lovingly? You mean did I accept them? Buh, buh, buh, buh. I mean, OK, yeah, sure, that too. I did not think it was an insult to just ask that. I'm just saying. Yes, of course. And I would not have expected anything else. It was just a question. But yeah, he's a white guy. Okay, I'm assuming the white people are bad in that question.

Okay, so I'm defending my in-laws. No. So listen, I think my husband is a, his family is devout Catholics. He's an Irish Catholic, church, mass, whatever. We Sunday, like these are really great people. Like during the pandemic, one of his family members filmed the mass because he couldn't go to church and videotaped it, right?

So they're there, they're like, they're a family that is entrenched. Oh, what a good idea for a silly superstition. For a silly superstition. So yeah, they accepted me. They're a family that is entrenched. What a good idea for a silly superstition. For a silly superstition. So yeah, they accepted me. They're amazing. That's great. They never even, I don't, look, they never said to me

that they thought twice about it, but I consider them my family and I'm as close to them as I am my blood family. But I mean, if they were bigots, they'd have like two reasons to hate you. You know, you gotta give them... That's a lease bill. You gotta give them credit. It's a weird thing though, right?

They got passed everything. The gay black part is like the least of it. There are other things that they should be like, that guy's fucked that guy. We don't want him going out. You were like older than your husband? I'm just, I'm making up. But like I think the gay and the black part is like not as egregious.

What is your age difference? 19 years, almost 20 years. Wow. So he's 78? Okay. All right. So 20 years. So it's okay when you do it, but I'm a pervert.

What? You think you're a pervert? No, but people say that when you're with women who are not your age. Yeah, but who cares? I certainly don't. If I cared, it would have been evident by now. I don't care if I cared. I would not be married to who I'm married to. It would not have the age difference. Well, I hope the next time your guy is out here with you, that you'll have dinner.

We'll come over. We love, we... We'll go out to a restaurant. I'm only a few blocks from you. It took me three minutes to get here. Three blocks? Let's not say where I live. Oh, sorry. I mean, this is- I'm sorry. This is Bel Air. No, no. This is, you know, we're in the Los Angeles area. We're in an undisclosed location.

Don't put that in. Sorry. Nobody can find out anything. I mean, they could have a drone overhead in a few seconds. I had seen your house online. You talked about it. I know. about it. You showed pictures when you couldn't get the solar panels right and the shit. Yeah. Anyway, thanks, man Thank you. Oh my gosh. You do enjoy this. Well, we were here for like two hours I can be a little you know