Club Random with Bill Maher - Dr. Phil | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

Bill Maher and Dr. Phil on the psychology of man caves, the time Bill tried therapy, Bill’s favorite quote about marriage, why Phil doesn’t drink, why America is headed for a cliff, how A.I. is going to destroy us, how are we are living the novel 1984, Phil’s opinion of Trump, why Phil won’t trash anyone in public, whether Phil will run for office, and Phil’s feelings about ending his TV show of 21 years.

I like your digs here. Thanks, you know. I've heard you talk about the concept of man cave. This is not a man cave because a man cave is something for a married man. Yeah, I guess that's right. This is just cave. Why do you have a man cave in here?

You do? Yeah. And you think that this is necessary for a good for a relationship? Oh, yeah. I've been married 46 years. Come on. Yeah, that's so ridiculous.

46 years. That's amazing. We've been together 50. Come the fuck on. Yeah. Really held you. You know, look. 52.

I was against you. You know, you do look like you're in your 50s, so. No, I'm 72. Wow. You look good for 72. Yeah. Very healthy, you know. I just had a total knee replacement eight weeks ago. Really?

Yeah. I hear that all the time. And people say it's like the next day you're like... First two weeks, you want to go put somebody in the mask. Because it hurts. Well, it's just irritating. It burns and all that. But I was back on the tennis court at three weeks.

And why do you, no, I play basketball every day. Is my knee gonna wear out? And why it just happens because you're old. If it hasn't, yeah, it's not. Really? Oh, good. Yeah, I mean, if you've got cartilage in there and you're still running up and down the court, you're good.

But I'm not 72 yet. Yeah, but you're right, weight, you're in good shape, you can run up and down the court. Chances are you're gonna be pretty good. Why you think it's because the knee goes when you've carried too much weight? Well, it's what you've done. I mean, I played football in grade school,

junior high school, college, and then race, motocross, poorly. And I had no, I was bone on bone. And that sounds sexy. Yeah, it's not. I guess I'm thinking you're boning. But I must say, I'm very flattered that you came here because you don't know me for madam. but well actually I do. That's not going to sound. Yeah, you, you, my son used to do your show a lot. Mm-hmm. Jay.

And I say, I say you. I know. I'm not going to pretend like I've seen every doctor fill up the zone, but that to me, what almost makes your success all the more impressive to me, because I'm always impressed when there's like something that, like I did not even choose to know about, but it becomes such a cultural phenomenon that I actually know a lot about it.

Like I know a lot about the Kardashians, and I don't have to watch the Kardashians, but there's something to that level of permeating the culture. I've always thought shrinks with the craziest purple in the world. Is that wrong? Well, I saw a study a long time ago that said, most, and I don't know, but it was bullshit or what, but it said, an awful lot of people go into psychology

originally because they're all screwed up and they think if they study it, they'll figure it out and get better. Right. And that's interesting. And I saw a follow-up that said, did it work and it said, not even almost. So we got a bunch of people that were got into it

for that reason and didn't help them. But I don't know whether that was... I mean, you know, they say that some people can't be hypnotized. And I feel like some people can't be hypnotized. And I feel like some people can't be shrunk. Like, I don't think I can be. I know I can't be hypnotized because they've tried and I wanted to. And I feel like the few times I won't go into detail

but it didn't happen much when I was talking to a psychiatrist as a patient sort of. I just felt like, I mean, it was all I could do from stop busting out laughing out loud sometimes because I thought what they were saying was so preposterous and just such guesswork like just yeah, it could be, it could be anything. I, you know, just this always over trying to connect something or make significance out of something when I think a lot of things are just very random. I don't know. I don't know if they were really believing it, what they were saying, or they just felt

like, I'm the doctor, I'm the shrink, I have to say something here to make this significant and it wasn't significant. I don't think. Or we don't know. And I also felt like, you're telling me about me, but of the two people in this room, I feel like one of us has so much more information on who me is and that would be me. You know, we maybe were the wrong kind of person. I mean, there's different kinds of therapy.

Maybe you were with a Freudian or something and it was trying to talk to you about your mother or something. It was, yes. Well, I don't know if the guy was a Freudian, but he did connect some, make a connection that was so preposterous when I told him that I don't know how we were talking about this, but my mother was in World War II, was a nurse. She was in London during the V-bombings, you know,

when the Hitler sent the rocket to Blitz, you know. And he somehow connected that to like, I don't know, but I remember laughing when I got in the car like, okay, it's Hitler's fault, whatever I was talking about. And you know, that's, that is my, like, impression of psychiatry. It's like, whatever I say, you'll try to make something out of it, because you have to. Or else you're out of a job. Yeah, I was never that way.

No, you're very practical. That I know. Yeah, I know a lot of 75 cent words I just try not to use them. It seems to me, you can get help talking to anybody. Yeah, I know a lot of 75 cent words I just try not to use them. Seems to me, you can get help talking to anybody. I mean, if you got a common sense mechanic working on your car and you shoot the shit with them and somehow another thing starts to get clear. You go, hey, that makes sense. And you walk away feeling better.

Right. You know, there are some people in this world that have what I call health and gendering personalities. And I'll bet you know people like that that you just feel better after hanging around with them or talking to them. You feel better hanging around with them. You still better about yourself.

There are some people that way. It could be the gender that cleans up at the building. It could be your buddy from grade school. It could be your parent. It could be anybody. But there are just people that have that kind of personality that you feel better about you after being around them. Is that your wife? I feel good about myself being with her. She's pretty easy to hang with. No, but she makes you feel like this quality you're talking about. I notice you left out wife in the list. You mentioned the janitor first. I mean, it's so happen anywhere. I know, but like that I would it could be anywhere, but I would rather it if I was married, I've never been married. That's a very big difference between us. You want to talk about that? Yes, sure. I do. I mean, I but look,

I'll tell you, I've said this before, but like people think I'm anti-marriage. I mean, I, but look, I'll tell you, I've said this before, but like, people think I'm anti-marriage. I'm definitely not anti-marriage. I understand marriage works for some people. It's just, we're different personality types. What works for you doesn't work for me. I'll be honest, I don't understand it,

but that's because I'm in my head. That's why I can't understand it. And I've read so many quotes about marriage, like, you know, who is it that said, it's like a sibling relationship with occasional bouts of incest. Have you ever been close? Yes. You're close?

Yes. Yeah. But I always kept my toe out of the trap because I felt like I don't want a sibling relationship that's with occasional moments of incest. That sounds terrible. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm starting to feel really bad about my. I feel really bad about it now. Well, Dr. Phil, you've come to the right shrink here because I'm going to help you. Do you have a drink that you and you have? Well, Dr. Phil, you've come to the right shrink here because I'm going to help you. Do you have a drink that you and you have? Yeah. Okay. And how many drinks do you allow yourself? Of what?

Well, what are you drinking? Ice tea. Oh, you're not drinking alcohol. I haven't had a drink since... a junior year of high school. See, if this was a professional show, I would know something like that. That's why I say it's not an interview. Yeah, it's plainly. I'm that I should know that that's you. So that was a really bad alcoholic and I just made a decision early on.

I ain't going to do that. And I have nothing against people who do my wife drinks my kids drink. Right. And I have nothing to get to it. I just made a decision for myself. I didn't, I saw what it did to him and said, I just don't ever want to go there. And pod I'm guessing completely off the moon. Yeah. And, you know, some of my best friends are like Ron White's one of my best friends. He's actually sober now for almost a year, but he's drinking and smoking dope all the time. A whole time I'm noting, but

he's been by the me. He's just Dr. Phil, we don't call it dope. Well, I know. No, it makes me dopey. You know, it's so funny. It's I'm like the last person in the world who does call it dope, but I love to call it dope. I think it's a great word for it. I produce, who's always telling me, we call it dope, you should hold. I don't. Like any drug to me is dope,

but very often I'll be like, damn, where'd I put my dope? But you do, well, first of all, I'm sure you would allow as a man of science that this and alcohol are completely different drugs. And one is much more benign, which is the one I'm holding. Not though I'm about to do. And together, this spectacular.

Yeah, this is whatever works for me. Okay, so if you don't have the, you don't have a drug element in your life to make you happy and marriage, okay, but like, come on, like nobody married that long, a conaptive kind of sex, you had like, when you're single or when you're you know, newly, you know, newly, uh, entranced with someone. So, where does the jujune your life come from? Like, is it all work? Is that what, what, what, you know, what gets your gonads gone

adding. Well, it depends on who you ask. You're asking me. You get an answer different from my wife. She thinks I'm a workaholic, but right. Well, then that probably answers my question. You get it from work. Well, no, I do. I'm like, I've been a jock all my life. I play tennis like three three or 50 days a year, really competitively. I love airplanes. I've been a pilot since I was a teenager. I love flying. I love all, that a lot of stuff that lights me up.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think all that stuff is sublimation for sex. But that's me. I always looked at society and thought, oh, people are golf. I mean, no one really could enjoy it. But okay. I just feel like if these things that people do

to either get away from their spouse or because they're not getting whatever charges them up in a marriage. I just, not because the people are in great people, it's just because the idea of being with the same person, it's got to rob a you of like something that was there at the beginning that you then have to watch die,

and then you get like, snippy with each other, even though it's not each other's fault, because you resent that person from it's blocking that thing in your life, that you know somewhere in your mind was the thing that at one point made you feel the best, better than golf, better than bowling, better than whatever fucking thing is sublimating it. Well, I still don't know why you haven't got married, but I am fully understanding why

nobody has ever married you. I totally get that 100%. Do you really think... But I'd kill themselves. Do you really think a million bitches haven't tried? Oh, I'm certain some of them have entertained it. And about a week into it thought, oh my God. Trust me, the reason I'm not married is not because I couldn't be married.

It's, I mean, girls always want to get married. You don't have to be doing anything that great. They just like marriage. I think that's half of them. It's the wedding. Like, they don't even think past, like they just want that one day. It's like, because the wedding is fun.

Marriage is hard. You'll agree to that, right? I'll agree to that. Well, see, that's a thing. Well, I don't want something in my life that's supposed to be the thing that gives me pleasure to be the thing that's hard. I heard all the time.

Yes, people, how's the marriage going? First thing out of their mouth, the sun variation of, well, it's a lot of work. yes people, how's the marriage going? First thing out of their mouth is some variation of, well, it's a lot of work. You know, it's tough. It's never like, you be! You know? And why would I, I don't understand?

Why I would, there's nothing I would trade for having to deal with that. Yeah, well, I'll agree with you on this. If you ever have to give up being all of who you are to be half of a couple, bad trade, bad trade. Wait, so then again, if you've ever... You gotta give up being all of who you are. Right.

To be half of a couple. Right. Bad trade. I don't wanna do that. Right. Cause who you are and... Right. But what if you are, like the drinking chase girls,

there's not going to be like another person probably who's. But if that's who you are and that's what you want to do, then you're not married to a jury. I agree. And I know. Oh, I know. But when I was dating Robin, she called me one time and said, Hey, well, you take me to my sister's house. It's up in Oklahoma. It's like an hour away. And I have nothing in common with those people. And I said, yeah, sure, I'll take you. And then about 10 minutes later, I called her back and said, no, I'm not going to take you. And that's bait and switch, because I ain't going to take you later.

So I might as well not take you now. And what's more, I won't take you, I won't ask you to go with me to see my mouth breather sisters. So let's just make a deal right now. We won't ask each, I won't ask you to go with me to see my mouth breather sisters. So let's just make a deal right now. We won't ask each other to be tortured by our relative sisters. Don't ask me to go see yours.

I won't ask you, if you wanna go see them go, have a great time, I'll see you when you get back and I'll never ask you to go see mine. And we made that, because I'm not gonna, I don't wanna go. So why would I tell you now I I will now this is an example of something where what you said before Is very true to me. That's exactly what I would say. Yeah, exactly alike on that. Yes So I'm not the same thing, but wouldn't it be bait and switch if I'm courting her I say oh yeah come on

Maybe I'll take you up there and then three months after we get married, I ain't going. See, here's the thing about relationships. And maybe there's going to make me sound selfish, but the deal in a relationship, and I've been in very serious relations, the deal is that your problems become my problems, and my problems become your problems. And I find this to be bad on both ends. First of all, you can't help me really with my problems.

I know people think they can, and yes, it's good to have people around you who can tell you the truth and give you good advice. I mean, must be awesome to be married to Dr. Phil. It's like taking my Linn lessons from Paganini, you know. So, okay. But in my life, yes, people can reinforce you and they can hear it. But basically, again, like with the shrink, I know me best, especially at this point in

my life. If I have a problem, I know what the possible answers are. I can figure it out. You're not, I don't need this other partner to figure it out, if the subject is me, if the subject is a million other things, yes, maybe. But on me, trust me. It's like, I never understand why people sometimes argue with you about what you yourself believe.

You know, oh, Bill, you could do anything. No, I really can't. Yes, you could. Who would know this better? I think me. Okay, so they can't help me with my problems. And honestly, I probably can't help you with yours either. I love it that when you get together with somebody, you see each other at your best, and you don't drag each other

down with things that you're just really listening to someone. You're not helping, and it's taking away from the thing being what it's supposed to be, which is the source of joy in your life. But yeah, that's kind of true, but in some respects, but sometimes we don't see ourselves the best. Somebody might see things about you that you can't see. You ever try to look at yourself in the face without a mirror? You can't do it. You're not fast enough.

Right. Well, yes, of course. But somebody else can come along and say, look, you're being a dick here, you don't want to do that. And you go, well, I didn't really think about it that way. They can give you feedback where you go, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Even about yourself, you're not all knowing.

Somebody else can point something out where you go, yeah, I didn't really look at it that way. That is true. But I feel like I have, again, we're talking about me now at 67. This is something I would be more germane when I was 27, or even 37, or even 47. And I'm sure when I'm 107, I'll look back and think I'm a douche now. But basically, I can see a difference. As I'm sure you can, once you get past 50, you've probably seen most of everything

it's going to come down the pike and you know you so well and you feel yourself making better decisions about stuff. Part of it is you just don't have as much like God knows what running through your veins that made you wild when you were young. You're just better. So yes, is it possible someone can look at what's going on in my life and make a great suggestion based on something I'm not seeing? It is, I can't remember the last time it happened, and I have a lot of people around me, I'm very lucky. I've had some of the same people on my show for 30 years or almost 30 years.

That's, and friends, and you know how great it is when you're older that you accumulate friendships throughout your life and you, and you have friendships that have been going on for a decade. So those people are going to be good people. So it's not like if I didn't have a spouse, there's nobody else who could tell me what's going on. Um, so, but do you listen when they tell you? Yes, of course. Okay. And there you go. You do have people that give you input. What I think a better thing to do is just don't act like a fucking nut. You don't have to marry. I'm not acting like Kanye or something,

but some people need to break in and just have an intervention and tell me, Bill, would you stop read thinking about space lasers? I'm not doing anything weird, because I was never a weirdo. Yeah, you don't know that that's not why I'm here. Oh, these people could have got me over here to do an intervention. I was gonna say, why did Chris and these guys could have got me in here to say,

hey, you got a straightened guy out. Well, I mean, please, why you, I hate to be that guy at the party who says, hey, Doc, could you look at my elbow, but like as long as you are here, and I may never get the chance again, please. I mean, have a shot of me. I would love to hear you.

If you have any thoughts about like how I could be better or what maybe I'm doing wrong. No, that's why I said. I'm probably the last person to do it because I think we think too much alike. I watch all of your shows. And you watch none of mine, so go fuck yourself. But maybe I'll start now.

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A little different spin. What? Well, you know, and make no mistake, I'm very proud of what I've been doing. I've 21 years I've been dealing with... It's awesome. What you say you don't need,

which is given input to people on their lives and their marriages and families and parenting and kids and drugs and... Oh yeah, you straighten out a million people. I'm saying, even I know that. Yeah. But I have different concerns at this point. I'm at a point in my life where I don't need to do anything.

So, but I'm really concerned about what's happening in this country and that's what I'm gonna start doing whether the cycle social issues. You know, there is a good idea. You got to do real time then. Yeah, come on. I was gonna do it a couple times last year and the schedule didn't work out.

That's what they always say when they just don't want to do it. No, that's not true. Okay. They tell me. Okay. But you got it. But it's perfect to... I tried.

I was scratching on the door. They wouldn't let me in. No, I promised you that's not the case. That's for years. No, that's not true. You talked to my kid, but not me. You just said it was scheduled, and there was a scheduling problem.

So obviously... A lot of my part. And not on your part. Yeah. Well, I apologize if that was the case, and I will fix this because I don't know where that wire got crossed. No, I'm just kidding. But you perfect show to promote your new show if it's...

Because that's great. So give me like can you give me your basic view, the overview, the 30,000 feet overview of where you think America is? And I just headed for a cliff. Me too. I think it's heading for a cliff. And I'm and major reasons being.

Well, it depends on what category you want to talk about. And look, I'm, I stayed, I stayed non-political because I think there's idiocy on both sides. There is. Yeah, I see people in the state of the union address on the right side of the aisle, yelling liar at our president. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of our president or the last one, but I respect the office of the president

and to see somebody screaming liar, that's just respects the office. I think the rest of the world's gotta be looking at it going. Yeah, why is that? But let's also pause a moment to say, you put in the same breath, you know, like this president and you didn't like the last one. They are very different people and one of them is much more of a threat to the Republic

and that would be the 45th. Would you not agree? Well, come on, threat to the Republic. Joe Biden? No. Come on, threat to the Republic, Joe Biden? No, Joe Biden is a return to normalcy, yet a Democrat who is, yes, too much ensourciled by his fringe left. He will not ever tell them to sit down and shut up. But I will take that bargain much as I don't like it, and it's bitter.

I will take that bargain over Trump. Come on. Well, I'm concerned about both sides and I'm particularly concerned about this woke agenda that's being pushed. Agreed. Right now, I'm concerned about what's happening in American colleges right now. Oh, my God.

Insanity. It's ins... If Pete, I don't think people know, I just don't think they know because I think, and I don't know, of course, I've not been on campus, but you can read so many first-person reports. And you can read that there's, it's in the literature of what the, the, the, these universities say they're doing or in their curriculum. I mean, there is like hard evidence of, oh, yeah, this is going on. And then all the speakers that get chased off of campuses

because kids, they, they're far from defending free speech. They don't even believe in it as a concept. They are so spoiled and entitled that they believe that their feelings far supersede this concept of free speech. That is a complete decoupling of one of the other basic principles that undergird this country, right? Well, let me tell you something. There was a time where if I had two candidates sitting in front of me and they were exactly

the same in every respect except one of them had a college degree and one of them didn't, even if it was a degree in like art history or something and had nothing to do with what they were going to be hard to do. And they were matched in every way. I would hire the one with a college degree because I knew something about them. I didn't know about the one that didn't. What I knew was they could take on a four-year project and complete it. They could meet deadlines.

They could get along with assholes that they didn't like, but it was their job to get along with them. Tough professors or whatever. I knew that about them that they could write papers and get things in on time. Do this, do that,

that they could take it. I don't know that about them anymore. Correct. I don't know because they're coddled by complaint. They whine. And they still get pushed through. And they're not required to take anything that is useful. Now some of them do. We still have STEM degrees and that's going up. Finally, after years of not, I think, which is good. But I mean, you can graduate with such bullshit degrees of sports marketing and gender studies

in advanced racist spotting and just this insane indoctrinated, I mean, that is not an exaggerated term. No, it's not. And they're so smart in what way? Just intellectually, these are smart in terms of just capacity to learn. It is continuing to go up. These kids are smarter than we were. Well, I mean, they're not being challenged.

They're not taught. They're certainly not wiser. No, I mean, it depends. They're skinned. Maybe you're saying that there are cues or higher. There's certain ways that they're smarter. There's certainly more savvy about technology that we are not native.

Well, I'll put it this way. You can give them more digits, and they can give them back to you in reverse than we could. They have more intellectual capacity. They have more working memory. They have more ability to learn in novel situations, but they're not being challenged.

And why have people gotten so much smarter in one or two generations? Well, it's just the drift. I think they're getting the technology is stimulating their brains earlier. I think they're getting more and more input. But you do realize that when you, if you, we did a man on the street right now, you know, like Jay, I've done it. Okay. I feel like Jay Leno used to do with this J-walking,

all right. And if we just talk to, if there was, every time we saw a Gen Z, or a young millennial walk by in the sidewalk, we stopped them and say, would you answer a few questions? We would find out very quickly that they know nothing. They know nothing.

Like if you said, what year was America founded? Like what year did we declare independence? They couldn't come up with that year. Even though it's a Broadway show, which they also don't know what that is. They just don't know anything. I think we have something of the day. Where is the state

of Utah located and they said, Canada. I heard one when the question they were asking is, I think where is Venice? And they answers were like Paris. You know, like they don't even know what's a continent. Like it's frightening. So they may have the capacity to know, but they're not putting anything in there. And of course, obviously there is a small percentage of kids, no matter what you do,

the really smart ones will rise to the top and know lots of stuff. And I mean, probably 80% of people under 40 are lost to me with doing real time because to appreciate that show, you have to know something. I try to make the news of the week palatable in a very entertaining way so that I don't leave anybody behind. But if you absolutely don't know anything, it's like I'm speaking Chinese.

So if we're talking about NATO or what's NATO, okay, I'm dead already. You know, I, not that we're going into, it's not me at the press. We're not going into horrible detail about this stuff. But they're just like when you are a tabular rassa, it's very hard to like write up. Well, let me tell you, millions, tens of millions of Americans cannot read it to most basic level. Right. And it's like 24% of eighth graders, 38% of fifth graders, and you can check those numbers.

It changes each year, but can't read a basic sentence. But yet they're getting pushed on, grade to grade to grade, and they can't read. The bright side of that, of course, is that they don't need to, because they don't read, because they scroll. The phone, the portal to all evil, has made reading obsolete. No one, people used to say,

when they asked the question, like, what would you do if you had an extra hour in the day? And they would almost invariably say, I'd read. If I just had an extra hour a day, I'd love to. And people did use to at least read a little at night, maybe. Nobody reads. I mean, people ask me all the time, why don't you do a book?

Because no one reads, that's why. Because I don't want to work on something that is not appreciated by a large number of people. And it's just like a dead form to so many people. And once you can sit on the phone and watch, fucking, I don't know what they're watching on TikTok and dog videos and God knows what challenges and stupid things and scroll and shopping. And that time suck was the worst thing that happened to humanity

until AI because I know AI is going to destroy it completely, my prediction. Well, I'm scared about that as well, but like in 0809, it was like a big, frayer airplane flew over the United States and dropped smartphones. And at that point, people stopped living their lives and started watching people live their lives. Yes. On the phone. Exactly.

And what happened is, at that point, they started comparing their lives to watching people live their lives. And those lives they're watching being lived are fantasy. So everybody started watching this glamorous life somebody's living. They don't realize that that's all staged. And so they compare themselves and by comparison, they think, God, my life sucks. And about that time, we started seeing the biggest spikes

in depression, loneliness and anxiety that we've seen since we started keeping records. Right. And you've been a good one to call that out. And you we started keeping records. Right. And you've been a good one to call that out. And you are right about that also with me. We're very much on that same page. It's like seven times for girls, four times for boys. Right. And the pandemic made it worse.

And what bothers me is they shut the schools down and they shut the country down knowing that that was the state of our young people's mental health. They knew that they were in dire straits and they shut down their world and isolated them knowing it was going to spike and they did it anyway. You are once again. What the hell is going on? Once again, we're on the same page there

because I was a big critic of that and now the chickens have come home to roast. But who does that? I mean, they know that it's the highest level starting in 10 and they say, well, okay, let's send them all home and isolate them. Who does it? COVID paranoid.

That's who does it. We have a new breed of people. That's why I say politically, I don't care because the Republican started it. The Democrats continued it and the kids and this remote learning crap. If you look at some of the remote learning, particularly for grades first, second, third, they got zero out of it. They got zero out of it. That means they're now way behind. And if you're not reading on grade level at the end of the third grade, your likelihood of dropping out is like six X if you're in a low socioeconomic group. Have you heard about microdosing? It's become increasingly popular for individuals looking to

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Well, you can't avoid it anymore. You can't avoid it. And I need allies who are like, where you and I are with, yes, both, no, again, I come back to Trump, you got to like be on the page that he's worst and joke like and very different than Joe Biden. Come on, Doc.

It's not politics that determine the outcome of society, it's culture. I don't care about politics. You go back to the beginning and Democrat Republicans have been in control about 50-50. They've had control of the House and Senate while they were in control of the presidency about 50-50. They've had it not in control, 50-50.

And look where we are. They both come up about the same place. I don't care about that. I care about our culture. Okay, I'm disappointed that I don't care about that. I care about our culture. Okay. I'm disappointed that I can't get you to just out and out say that Trump is a completely different animal than the politics on the left and the right that we both agree is very lacking on both sides.

But he is a completely different element and much more dangerous. I mean, we're talking about some sort of unnatural predator that was introduced into this wild, which was not a, it was a jungle in the first place, but this is a different element. This is nobody else has ever tried to not concede an election in this country. Try to overturn election. We all, even the people in his own party, understood, was lost. That is a Rubicon that we have crossed that makes him completely unique. A unicorn, if a unicorn was a big fat asshole.

If you, I can't have your faith on that I I it's very hard for me to Understand where you're coming from on any issue I'm telling you Talk you can't do it. No, I'm telling you this. That's a cop out What difference does it make? Hey, he's not in power now. B, he's probably not gonna be, and C, it doesn't, let me ask you this. Just wait a minute.

Hang on, hang on. You've read 1984 how many times? Once. You have a good memory. I mean, it was like college time, but I loved it, and I certainly remember the gist, the ministry of truth. Yeah, and Oceana.

Yes, the government came in, they say, and there's, we're gonna tell you what words you can use. We're gonna tell you what words you can't use. Yes, I can. And we're gonna, and if you don't do it right, we're gonna unperson you. I'm all over that. I know and by the The Biden administration actually tried to have this year a ministry of truth

They almost called it was very close to I can't remember the name. It was close It was close and it was exactly what that is I agree but even beyond that. Let me tell you this You think that's a bigger problem than Donald Trump. No, no, I don't. Oh, right. Because I don't think politics, I don't think politics have, are the big problem. What I'm telling you is this, that's happening again, but it's not the government doing it. We're doing it to each other. This cancer culture, this cancel culture, bullshit. We're doing what 1984 had Oceana, the government doing. We're doing to each other. I understand.

I couldn't remove it. It's the culture. It's the problem. You're wanting to cite, let's pick somebody and throw them against a wall, whether it's Biden or Trump or Bush or whoever. Okay. That doesn't matter. It does culture.

You know what? One thing you have to have in a friendship. And I hope we're friends now for a long time, is the ability to air your differences and then just move on. Like this is a microcosm to me of what has to happen in America. Your doctor, Phil, you know,

you're legendary for being a guy who like fixes other people's problems, a wise elder, and you are. But I'm just not where you are and never will be on this Trump thing and you're not where I am. And that's okay. And just like if we were in a marriage, I assume we now just move on, right? I just know that about you.

It doesn't make me dislike you. Or it comes close to hate. And no, it just is like, okay, that's where this guy is. There's no universal judge who tells us which one is right. But we go on, we just go forward knowing that we're not quite there on that. Well, let me tell you something about me.

Yeah. You wanna know something about me? I wanna know everything about you. Okay. Uh, let me tell you something about me. Yeah. You want to know something about me? I want to know everything about you. Okay. Uh, and you can go back 26 years because I spent five years in the public spotlight on Oprah. Right. And in 21 years of my own show.

And in that time, I have never, um, spoke ill of someone in the public eye. I don't do it. And I'll tell you why. I'll give you an example. I was on, I think it was Letterman or Leno the night after Mel Gibson had some kind of traffic sugar tip on sugar tips Pacific highway and he said the Jews called all cost all the wars Kanye stole that from him in the in the world and they asked me I forget it was Letterman or Leno but what do you think about that?

Blame on all the wars in the world on the Jews, Mel Gibson. And I said, you know what? Not his finest hour, but it's 3 a.m. He's at the car, he's drunk, he blurt something out. I would rather study the guys 50, 60 years of life instead of Judgeyman 14 seconds on the side of the road. I'm not going to trash the guy.

I don't know. Okay. Well, first of all, so I, I mean, you know, you're in the public eye and you say something stupid, you have to expect to be trashed. And you know, we all had a turn in the barrel. But to my point, that kind of compliments this, look, to say not as finest hour is a charitable way to say it, but okay, let's be charitable and just leave it at that.

Moving forward, could I be friends with Mel Gibson? Yes, but just like you with Trump, I put that in my knowledge basket like, okay, I know that Mel Gibson, because I don't know for sure his father is one of those Kruku Catholics. So he has a thing about the Jews, probably because he literally thinks they killed Jesus.

Do I think that's stupid? I do, but like everyone has their thing. I put that away and go, let's move forward. But see, I don't know that, and I don't talk, I still talk shit about people And I don't talk, I still don't talk shit about people. Well, he individuals, I just don't know that. I don't know about Mel Gibson. But I don't.

So I wouldn't, and if I did, I wouldn't talk about it publicly. Well, it's out of his mouth. So that's how I know it. Yeah. And I just know. Am I surmising that it, he's such a super Catholic and, you know, they believe that the Jews killed Christ. And, okay, I am, but I mean, it's not a giant distance

from one dot to connect to the other on that one. Some people just don't like the Jews, Doc. I don't have to, I know that not like a whole depresses, but like a lot of people don't like the Jews. The Jews always seem to get like a lot of animus when things get tense in the world. They're always the kind of the go-to scapegoat. Yeah. Well, I'm not one of those people. No, I understand.

Oh, I'm not saying no. And you're in job visits. You must love the Jews. You must never million other people. I do. But I just don't trash individuals. I just don't do it. It's just philosophy. Well, I mean, one man's definition of the word trash could be critique to put it in more gentile way. And if you're going to be commenting on political matters or matters that are essential to how this nation is functioning, isn't it going to be impossible not to trash or at least critique individuals?

Can we always keep it on such a general level? Well, I don't know. I like when I said yell and lie or at the president, I didn't even say who it was. We know who it was. I know, but why? Why are we kidding then? Why? It was Bobert and Marjorie Taylor Green.

Why are we protecting them? I mean, I don't understand what this is buying you to like hold this oath to not hold accountable any individual for anything. It seems like we're leaving out a big part of the equation. Well, you don't need to understand it. You just need to. That's right. I'm Dr. Phil. I got mountains of money and plenty of fame. You don't need to know anything, son.

Just pour me another drink. And now that's true. I mean, but I guess what I'm saying is like, I welcome your voice on matters of national importance in a more macro way. It seems I'm guessing, but it seems like this is the evolution of where you're going in television. You had 21 years when you talk to people. I mean, you talk to mostly couples, counseling, that kind of stuff, and like troubled teenagers

and families. And, you know, on a very individual personal level that that had ramifications because lots of people watching were going through the same thing. Right, and that was kind of... Every guest was a teaching tool. Right.

Now you're going to be painting on a broader canvas. Am I, is that basically right? Well said, I'm gonna steal that and take credit for having said it when you're not around. But yeah, it's like yes. It's like now when I see what's happening on college campuses, I said it's when I see all of this energy that's being put into pronouns. Like I said, a third of eighth graders don't even know what a pronoun is. Right. How about we teach them what a pronoun is, and then we can decide if we're going to talk to them about reassigning them. And I'm not saying that to be against transgenders, transgendarism or whatever that word is.

I saw, I was reading some stuff just yesterday that's going into a book. You were to say, nobody will read. And I'm, well, your books, right? There are a few people who do sell a lot of books. I imagine you're one of them. I mean, there are people who sell in the millions, and I'm sure you are, but it is very rare. A novel sells 50,000 copies and it's a best seller. Yeah. 50,000. Yeah. No, I wouldn't do that.

No, I know. But they have this big thing about the word of the, you know, they don't want to, it's not the homeless. Oh. It has to be those experiencing homeless. Oh, I hate that. And they even said, you can't use the word the when talking about the French. And the French ambassador said, well, am I going to have the, what is it?

Embassy of Frenchness? So I'm not changing the sign. What are you doing? But it's gotten ridiculous. It's so, it's so beyond ridiculous. And you know, people are always saying to me, Bill, you know, what happened? You make fun of the left so much more than they used to, and I always have to tell them,

yes, because there's so much more obnoxious and so much more ridiculous. And not that most people on the left, I think believe this stuff, but the ones who don't, my critique with them is, you're fucking cowards, because you know,

you know the insanity of your own fringe, but you don't call it out. And my question is always like this stuff, you're just saying about the French or the experience in home. Why do we, this is obviously something that teenagers put up on Twitter or Instagram or something. Why does the rest of the country actual adults bow to it and follow

it and go along with it? Because everyone is rolling their eyes, almost everyone except the fucking 14 year old who posted that. Why do we follow teenagers? I mean, it's like the Emperor's new clothes. I mean, you remember that fable? The Emperor's I mean, you remember that fable, the emperor is parading around in his underwear. And nobody wants to say it because only a fool would not see the close. And then the little kid steps up and says, Oh, the emperor is naked. He's in his underwear or whatever. Everybody else is afraid to get labeled. I'll tell you, we will get so much hate mail and tweets and stuff over our conversation

right now. I'm welcome. I've the words right out of my mouth. I'm welcome. I mean, really? First of all, I will see none of it. So anyone who thinks they're hurting me with it, you're not. And you're just masturbating each other up.

You know, it's just a big circle jerk of virtue signaling and just people who, I mean, look, Doc, you are never going to lack for a father, if you look to be a million, because this country is so psychologically sick at its core. I mean, it's such a country full of mean girls, snitches, and bitches,

and people who haven't done anything, but they just invent things so that they can catch other people, not being as right as them. I mean, your example about the homelessness is perfect. Liberals, this is my thing with liberals and woke. Like, you could believe whatever the fuck you want if you're woke. Just don't claim you're some kind of a advanced liberal. You're the opposite of liberal. Liberals are the ones who came up with the term homeless so that people wouldn't call them bums

and vagrants and hobos. We did that. We came up with homeless. Then they came along and said, that's not good enough. Actually, you people are the problem. It came up with homeless. Then they came along and said, that's not good enough. Actually, you people are the problem. It's people experiencing homelessness. You fucking moron.

I, you know, that's the kind of thing that when people say, why do you make fun of the left? Because you just get under my skin like that. Do I think the right is more dangerous? Absolutely. Rationally, I do. Does this stuff make you viscerally hate more?

Maybe. And my point about that is if they took all of that energy and put it in to solving the problem. Right. I think there are certain things that we have to change about our approach. And this is where the psychological part comes in for me. We've got to stop trying to win arguments

and start trying to solve problems. And that is a completely different mindset. Stop trying to win arguments, start trying to solve problems. And then all of a sudden, we have to start talking. You know what, the worst thing to do there made me think you must have thought about running for office.

Because that, I think, is something that maybe TV, you know, like, I don't have to say the name of that man, Donald Trump, and Ronald Reagan also, but especially Trump, to make the point that, you know, TV is the best stepping stone to not just political office, but the highest political office. Trump won largely because he had this reputation as someone people had seen on TV for many, many years on a show where he was highly esteemed and an authority figure and people listened to him.

And then when he rolled that into the presidency or to running for the presidency, he already had this sort of aura around him of, this is a guy who should be the boss. I've seen him be the boss. And he really, I mean, and you're not Donald Trump. I mean, he's a moron and he's a dangerous narcissist. You could like, I mean, you would start very high in the polls just to begin with. But here's the problem.

When people label somebody a straight talker, just because they can understand every word in a sentence the person says, that doesn't make him a straight talker. If somebody says make America great again and they go oh I understood every word in that sentence that doesn't mean they're a straight talker. They just said a real simple sentence and connect with people. Something's gone way off.

Something's gone, let's not a straight talker. That's just a simple sentence to speak to the least. That's not a good idea. It really doesn't answer my question about you getting into politics. I know, but it was a good deflection. It was not because I caught it. Well, no, but it was a good deflection and it was true.

Okay, and this is again, making my point that you've seen Destin for politics because, you know, that's what you're going to do in politics. Look, if you're a guy who doesn't want to ever trash anyone else, I would seriously advise you and get about getting into the Republican party. Because that party is all about treashing. So you're gonna have a hard time there. I mean, they're all about the hate. But you could be the kind of person, if you would like, relented a little on the Trump issue,

who could lead the Democrats back to the center where they need to be. Like you running as a Democrat is Republican, you're dead, because the Republican Party is not only is it the party of Trump now, it's the party of post Trump, meaning like even if they got rid of him, this horrible egg that he laid,

this hateful sort of politics of grievance and no facts, that's permanently, that is the Republican Party. You don't wanna be in that party. But as a guy who would lead the Democrats back to a promised land, yes, you could do that. And your in politics now that we've had Biden and Trump, not too old to do it. They used to say that was too old, but not now.

But you have to do it quickly. You don't wait another 10 years. It's a thankless job. I think for you would be a great job because you are a guy who, like you say, you're a workaholic. You love your work. Your work gives you a lot of... Mine does, too. That's where I spend most of my time, most of my energy. It's another reason I never got married.

It's because I'm married to my work. And I always say to people about my show. My most of my energy. It's another reason I never got married is because I'm married to my work. And I always say to people about my show, my show's my kids. Well, why haven't you run? Well, because I... Why haven't I run? Because, first of all, I could never win. I don't have the same reputation.

I have the almost the opposite reputation. I mean, if you introduce me in a baseball game, which has happened, at least half the crowd will boo. Which I take as a bet, you're fine, or they don't understand me, or they're remembering something I said that offended them, but I've offended everybody. I don't know. I'm an atheist, pot smoker, unmarried, unapologetically. It's just all wrong.

But you are, no, not me, you. I'll be your secret advisor, but it has to be as a Democrat. You have to be that centrist Democrat that the Democratic Party definitely needs. I'm telling you, I'm onto something here. This was a very valuable, I always said. Well, don't confuse bald with stupid. You don't want to, you think you're going to draft me onto the ticket? I'm telling you, I really feel like this is important.

Now Doc, I will be at the MGM Northfield Park Center stage, the formerly the hard rock, and Northfield Ohio on Saturday, May 20th, the 21st of them at the Mystic Lake Casino, in prior Lake Minnesota, June 3rd. I'm at the Met in Philadelphia. So you should let me read that. I'm promoting you, in Philadelphia. So you should let me read that. I'm promoting you, so do you promoting yourself?

I wouldn't, you know what, I esteem you too much to have debate you with my stand-up plugs. June 4th, I'll be at the Win Creek event sitter in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. But do you have anything to plug besides the show that we can't know anything about here? No, I'm just looking for work. I'm unemployed. No, you're a huge deal at CBS

Right, I know you know what I know you have a script in show coming on what um, we've got so help me Todd Which is on Thursday nights at nine and it's doing great. It's on killing. Where is it on CBS 9 o'clock on CBS 9 o'clock? That's your show script to show. Yeah, that's fine. And we're still I've got you know two more months of Dr. Phil April and May. Are you getting Whistful about that? No, we're it's doing great. No, but are you getting Whistful knowing that like, oh, I've done this for so long and this is one of the last times I'm going to be stepping out on this stage. I mean, come on, you're gonna get choked up

the last show now. No, we wrapped taping of originals last week. How's it? How's it? Yeah, so I'm now working on. So you taped your last show? Yeah. Come on, you must have been reclaimed.

It was a moving time. And my boys were there with their wives and two of my grandkids were there that are old enough. And, uh, I've had the same, uh, professional assistant for 45 years and 45 years. Yeah, she was there. And, you know, I've had the same, uh, Carla Pinington's my executive producer.

She's been there the whole 21 years. I've had the same Carla Pinington's by executive producer. She's been there the whole 21 years. I've had the same seven camera men for 21 years. I've had the same director 21 years. I've had the whole team's been there the whole time. And a lot of them are going with me to whom we launch off in January 24. When you've had a personal assistant for 45 years, you know what that tells me?

She couldn't find another job. You never threw a phone at her head. No, I didn't. No, she's a... I can't say a lot of things about you, but I can't say you threw a phone at anybody's head. You're there, she's quick. Right.

No, that's fine. But she's great. Well, whatever happens in the future, including running for president, which is a genius idea that I had to end, I'm, I'm going to remember you were the was born right here. It was born, right here. It was born, right here. It's an unstoppable idea.

I wish I had thought of it. You know, it's funny. I did an editorial about, oh, I don't know, four years ago, something when Trump was in office saying that the person that running against him should be Oprah. And I meant it. And I don't like no Oprah. And I have no connection with Oprah. And I meant it. And I don't like no Oprah and I have no connection with Oprah. But I just thought, oh, as far as somebody who like checks all the boxes of somebody who could

win in America, I mean, the goalposts have moved so far as to what is the criteria for a candidate. And it is television. Television is where people suckle intellectually, as sad as that is. And when they see somebody who's smarter than the average bear and they respect, I mean, look, if Trump did it, but Oprah's not gonna do it. And, you know, I mean, we'll have to talk about VP. That has to be a very careful pick.

We have to be the VP. I am not that we, at first, we can never have to white man. That's true. Not anymore. That's true. Not anymore. And maybe it should be so. You know, I mean, the certainly diversity is an important thing and people need representation. Think about this. I'm watching my show in January of 24 election year. I intend to have a major impact on what happens. I think families in America are's, of course, another way to have an impact on that is actually win it. But I understand what you're saying. Like, you're being a kingmaker, and then right on, because, you know, you can go from that to you know, from kingmaker to then, you know, boy, I could do this better myself. But I agree, and I can't wait to see your platform of getting schools to teach

the free arts again and get your son out of that dress. What a novel idea that is. So you'll come be on my new show and I'll come be on yours. I appreciate that. Let's do it. Alright, come on, give. I appreciate that. Let's do it. Come on, give. Rush.