Club Random with Bill Maher - Jon Hamm | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

Bill Maher and Jon Hamm on Martha Stewart, the existential crisis in Hollywood and why strikes happen, Jon’s Mad Men negotiations, Bill’s take on Trump’s CNN appearance, why Jon is in therapy, Bills most traumatic day ever, how the Ukraine war is like the writers’ strike, rules on what roles actors are allowed to play, race and the law, why Al Franken shouldn’t have quit, how Jon makes doing commercials cool, and why Jon is happy in his relationship, and Bill’s favorite Elvis movie ever.

I've heard the tragic news that you don't drink anymore. That's not true. Oh, great. I did take about a 15-month hiatus. Wow. This is a perfectly fine amount of time. It's like a reset button and I'm so glad. What do you have for me?

Anything, what do you want? What do you want? This looks nice. This is chilled. Yeah, this is tequila. What do you want? This looks nice. This is chill. Yeah, this is tequila. So that, it's Friday after all. Oh, listen. It's been a minute through the week.

Everybody has it. Tequila company, all right? Is this yours? No. No, but I thought I've been great name for one. Tequila mocking bird. I was literally, I was literally gonna say that. Did somebody do it already?

No, but it's amazing. Really, you thought of that, maybe we should start it together. You know, you take a shot and you bust up and put something into the thing, my good luck, your acting ability. Right? Oh, I'm sorry. The worst part is still in the world. Well, this is long overdue, sir.

Yes, it's great to see you. It's great to see that we can actually have a drink together. Not that we need liquor to be entertaining, or to entertain ourselves. No. I have, uh, I have my, uh, I have got coffee, I've got tequila, I've got, uh, Oh, you got coffee into here?

That's like an Irish whiskey something like that So you could do a downer in an upper at the same time. You know coffee. I've noticed since I was a little kid and I think my dad had the same thing does not caffeine doesn't make me jittery Oh, wow, I think it's the that's the It's like the the way Adderall is prescribed for ADHD people. I think it just kind of levels of metal, although I'm not ADHD. No, also you're just very...

Sturdily made, I would say. There's nothing about you that's very, I mean, that's partly why you have such success as an actor. People like to see, I think they said it about Spencer Tracy. Someone who just stands there with the parables and says, this is a lot. You know, you don't ever psych me as a gunner guy who has to like go through psychological traumas

in your real life in order you have some, but you don't have to, to like do your job. Yeah, you know. I read a really great, not an autobiography, a biography of a Humphrey Bogart called Tough Without A Gun. And a title. And Tough Without A Gun. He has the craziest story born on the Upper West Side, in the 30s, when the Upper West

Side was like, he was not born in the 30s. He was on Broadway. Ray, whatever. Ray's in the early 20th century. I'm getting my time right. He was one of the actors who made the transition when they went from silent to talkies. Yes. And that first generation.

And what a voice. Obviously, he had that going for him. But he was like a fuck up. He went to private school, he got kicked out. He bounced around and he, like, most fuck ups ended up in the theater. They'll take anybody. And it's a fascinating story.

And, you know, differently handsome, I think you could say. Handsome. Handsome challenged. And, uh, and still, like, what an amazing career. But, I mean, this, I think, says a lot about how deep women are, like, compared to us. Like, there's really can't be an equivalent sex symbol to a Humphrey Bullguard among women, even though Martha Stewart is currently on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swim 20.

What? The Stewart is conventionally attractive. But excuse me, 81, what, this war on boners must stop. What? The Helen Mirren. Is it in the late 70s? And you think she should be on the cover of Strokebook? I think, you know, it's different strokes

for different folks as they might say. Exactly, but we know. We, that's, okay. I guess that's the correct answer, but I think it's actually shallower to think that you should retain beauty in age. Life is a series of trade-offs of good and bad when you're young, you're beautiful and not that wise,

and then it reverses itself. I think it's actually shallow to think someone should be, like physically capable of being on the cover of a stroke book at 80. I think you're, I think you're onto something there, but I also think that, I also think that it's, I always find it funny how the sports illustrated swimsuit issue tries to reinvent itself

every couple of years, like we're not, that here to, it's not, it isn't what it is. Really, wait a minute. I think it's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is. It was always in February. It came on the Y February because that's the footballs over basketballs and midseason baseball

hasn't begun. It's kind of like the, it's a down time in sports. Right. So, that's when I, as a kid, I would watch wide world of sports and they'd kind of like the it's the down time and sports right. That's when I as a kid I would watch wide world of sports and they'd have things like ice skate barrel jumping. Carlin had a great ride. He would do that. Think about wide sports. He'd just start naming all these stupid things like cross country ballroom dancing roller fucking. Roll fucking. Yeah, well that's kind of the winter Olympics. I mean, but the winter

looks as ski. Yes, it does. I, yes, you know, you get a, I even got into curling, I believe it or not. It's a, it's fascinating. Trust me, you spend enough time in Canada, you get into curling, which I'm not suggesting. Why are we in life? What were you doing in Canada? I was shooting a movie as a core movies in television, making prestige television for the right. Now, have you ever spent any time in Canada? And in Canadians. In Canadians? Yes, of course.

But don't tour. Like a couple days in Calgary, then up to Edmonton, then over to Red Deer. Not Red Deer. Gary Mulder? No. Gary Mulder. I barely remembered Gary Mulder? No. Gary Muldier. I barely remembered Gary Muldier. I remember it from make me yes.

He made me laugh all the time. He was in that generation with, who was the guy? He was the doorman at the comedy store. Kip a daughter. Kip a daughter. Who? Big hit. When I first saw him, I was like in high school

thinking about being a comedian. And I saw him on the tonight show. And I was like blown away. I think they all were because he looked like he bowled long. I mean, he, apparently that went to his head a little too much because I was like. Well, I remember seeing the video for the song he did. Remember the song he did?

When? No. No. It was basically a song that was full of fish and fucking puns. Oh. This is the 80s. It didn't take much. Yeah.

But it was a big hit on the radio in St. Louis. And we all laughed because you could get away with the things that you weren't supposed to say because it was, you know, you were talking about on-porpus or whatever. You know, I mean, this is what we're talking about. That's cool. But they've made because it was the 80s, they made a music video out of it. Of course. And Kippodata was doing his best kind of Don Johnson,

white suit. White suit, look at what you're saying. You know, what I remember about him was that tonight's show, and he came over to the couch and there was other a-list star, I can remember who it was, but Dean Martin or somebody, and he looked like he just, I mean, he had a confidence that I assure you I would not have had at that age.

And then unfortunately, you know, he drugs. Well, drugs, God dammit, drugs, John. It's only the world, I think the world, it's like a lot of people, the world moved on and they didn't either adapt or catch up. You know, it's like, it feels like sometimes the whole thing is on a, on a merry-go-round or treadmill or something and you're kind of like,

when did the whole landscape shift? Why did I not get the memo? Because I feel like sometimes whether you're a comic or a musician or a director or whatever, and you start, you're making the same thing that you made or you're doing the same that you did. So true. And then the world shifts, and it's like,

wait, the landscape's different behind me, and now it doesn't resonate the way it used to. Well, okay. You've always been really good at that, because you stay plugged in, and you stay, and you talk to people, and you engage with people, and have, and I keep basically the same philosophy for 30 years, even though the politics changes,

so my audience sometimes changes. I mean, I've lost a fair number of this, what I would call the super woke, and it's good. Don't let the door hitch in the ass. You were no fun to begin with. You have a terrible sense of humor. I think that's, don't you say, you tell me, because you have a little more of a sense of what the mood in the room, so to speak is,

but I feel like that particular affliction is waning in some way, because it feels like it's reached its useful conclusion. The critical mass is like, okay, we get it, we get it. There is a useful quality to some of what you're saying. physical mass is like, okay, we get it, we get it. There is a useful quality to some of what you're saying. The over, the reaction, overbearing thing of it is absolutely not useful.

And in fact, it's counterproductive to your own point. You're shooting yourself in the foot and then wondering why you walk with them. I mean, this is certainly the message I've been putting out there, whether it's actually happening the backlash. This is something that comes up, it's so funny, you say this. This comes up so often lately. Somebody says it's exact thing to me. People like very much respect, and they may be right. And I'm hopeful about that. But there's this idea, oh, we're seeing the backlash. I gave out this award a few, oh my gosh, and we've

been on strike for almost a month. I guess it was over a month ago called the Cahoney's Awards. We invented this thing to give people awards for standing up to the brass ball culture. It was literally a brass ball thing. And I gave one to Trader Joe's because they were, there was a threat. you can't say Trader Jose. Trader Jose. And they said, you know what, we don't think it's racist. Go fuck yourself. We think it's funny.

So they got one tattoo. And by the way, it is. And it is. It just is. So I mean, Ted Cerando's got one for sticking with Dave Chappelle for his special one. There was the big trans protest against that. So that's an indication to me that if I can have this for his special when there was the big trans protest against that.

So that's an indication to me that if I can have this little awards show for people who stand up to cancel culture, maybe that's true, maybe this is a wave that's coming. But the fact that a few people have stood out and did that, to me, I don't know. These people are not going away. I mean, the strike we're in now is a good indication of it. How everything has become politicized. This strike is not just a strike about writers. Of course, it is that.

And there is definitely a need for a new model with the streaming industry. Okay. But I mean, the way they characterize themselves is, you know, we can't make a living wage. Well, there are people who actually can't. Writers are making a living wage. So I say it all the time when I talk about,

you know, there must be so hard to do it. You do, I'm like, I'm not a lead minor. Right. You know what I mean? The lead minor. There's a lot. Yeah. There's a lot of harder gains.

Exactly. And gigs that are less well paid. Look, I love my writers and all writers, and I am a writer, so I'm very sympathetic, but also let's just keep it real. And also, let's not make it, but they already did, a proxy war for our bigger politics. That's what's different about this strike,

and the OCD saying. See, this is about, like, we must be perfectly right because we're on the side of the working man, and then you see like rock bands out there playing for the picket lines and it's that, you know, like it's Dylan with the like you say with let's find it. Woody Guthrie and this machine kills fascists like. I agree with that. That can get a little intolerable in his case. And but I think what you said at the beginning is correct.

And I think that the only other times that this has happened, and I was having this conversation with a very fancy group of people at some point. But I, you look back at the history of when this has gotten into a striking kind of situation. No, no. And the last time the actors and the writers got together to do this was 1960 when it was about residuals. 60. Exactly. Exactly.

And it was when both of them went on strike at the same time. Wow. And that every other strike since then has been in a significant sea change in the industry. In the 80s, I remember this because Letterman went off to here and I was like, what's this writer's strike? What do you mean? I was 15, 16 years old. Yeah, I remember that.

Remember what the reason was? Cable TV. Yes. What are we gonna do about cable TV? It's gonna ruin television, right? It's gonna ruin television. Then what was to ruin our gig? In it.

DVDs, home video. Right. It's gonna ruin our gig, it's gonna ruin our gig. Four years later, you couldn't sell a DVD if it was made out of gold. So, what do we do now? It's another sea change in the industry. And it's got to be sorted out.

And you talk about it as an existential crisis because both sides are saying, hey, we can't pay the bills. And you're like, the bills are getting paid. And in fact, the sea sweets are making tens of millions of dollars in salary. They're not missing a meal. But either are you guys. So let's all take a step back and understand that you have valid points. And that AI is a real thing that ain't going away. It's not going to uninvent itself. No, exactly. It's just a new technology that is going to be used in support of the human brain. I know that. In the way that word

processor, that is such a great dissertation on that. Somebody should write that as an op-ed or something, just to your exactly right. There is a theme to this and that theme is every time the new techno, the new paradigm should we fucking shit our pants when we could. And this is what bothers me about this. The governor of this state could do what politicians used to do, called draw boning. He could get these two parties in a room. He'd unsightly, listen, I'm the governor of this state,

figure it out. This industry is a little important to this state. We're kind of known for it, you know, Hollywood making magic, silver screen. In the same way, I bet not to keep it bringing it back to the mining class, but I'm sure back in the old days, they drank busters and the Pemberton guards or whatever they were called in the miners and crossing the lines and the upgabs and the whole thing.

I'm sure the governor of Pennsylvania had something to say about it, of course. And what he would say is, might not have been this partisan, he might have had one side over the other, but either way. What they would basically say, and what Newsom should say is,

look, we're not going to do this forever, right? Can we agree on that? Let's start if I just start about, okay. If we're not going to do it forever, then at some point you guys are going to compromise because I know neither one of you is going to give up everything. So let's pretend it's three months later.

And this is really where it's gonna end up without all this posturing and... All the kabuki having... Whatever it is. Listen to Weezer play to you on the news. Yeah. Or whatever the fuck. And no one wants to destroy your sweater.

That's a Weezer reference. I remember having the same, the similar thing when I was having a contract negotiation for Madman, the final contract negotiation. I was like, okay, now it's time. I've worked under a certain expectation of payment and a certain expectation of what I was doing. The show is while they exceeded that.

Now it's time to pay up, hone up. And everybody understood that. And I said, okay, let's go. I said exactly what you said. I said, we can do this for two weeks, where we go back and forth. And you go, guys, there's no mountain. There's nothing that looked, open the book we don't have.

I just don't. And I'll go, then I won't show up to work. And I'll quit. And then you'll know, you can't. And James Brown with the thing. And I can't possibly go on any further. And then the beat comes in, and I throw the cape off and off we go.

Or, exactly, we can cut to the chase. Right. And I know what I'm worth, and you know what I'm worth. And so let's get there, and then we're done. And it could always be done that way. That's such an interesting analogy, but you're totally right. Like, they both know the number.

They both know the number. And yet they can't, it's so sad. Well, and I think part of it is, I really do think part of it is that the studios are not in the business of giving up anything. What business is? What business is? Excapitalism. That's exactly what it is.

You try to keep as much as you keep. I'm going to lie, cheat and steal to keep my pile bigger than you. Assuming you're doing the same thing. You're doing the same thing. That is capitalism. And it... This is when capitalism runs into the forces of labor. I mean, because capitalism harnesses that part of us, which is real, and which is always going to be there, it has been more successful than anything else in history for raising people out of poverty and giving them a good material life.

And socialism did not do that. No, we did. We need some socialism. Something to aim for. Yes, asperation. It's human nature. The whole reason that the woefully underserved and poorer people in this country tend to quote-quote vote against their own interests

in the Republican Party is, well, what happens when I hit the lottery? What happens when I'm rich? Because I'm going to be rich. Sinclair Lewis called them temporarily inconvenienced millionaires, poor people. That's how they thought of themselves. Isn't that great? I mean, it's a great, it's a great turn phrase, and it's a great description of that mentality.

And I always get back to like having done a show for 10 years about the good old days. Right. Yeah. When you, you know, didn't have to listen to minorities. Right. If you were gay, right, hide that under the bushel. Right.

And, uh, rule. Men rule the world, white straight men. Right. Straight men. Yeah. God forbid your black or the other color. No. It was a lot of bad.

The maximum tax rate was 75%. Right. And you know what? People still did okay. Yeah. But you know what else happened roads were clean and They worked great and there were libraries and they were all these social services that existed to help everyone else and children get up and children learn things in school. Yes, we gave up on that thing of teaching children things

I mean, you know why we did Because I don't want to pay for your dumb kid. That's what it turned into. Why should I have to pay for your dumb kid? And there's a lot of racially codified stuff in that too, but that's what happened. I don't know if that's true. I think we've thrown more money at the education system by decade than ever. We keep throwing more money at it. That's not what's happening. They, I've known people who were like substitute teachers and they said, you can't believe, and this is not in some poor school district.

And said, yeah, the kids all have like giant computers on their desk, which they use to play, to play a tour of duty or whatever, the phone is like. So my very good friends teach in the LA USD. And they have similar issues with the teachers union and how much waste there is in graphed. And not the right thing.

And it's, yes, there's a lack of motivation for that to happen. Classes are way too big. You're basically managing kids that are undiagnosed with a lot of issues. There's language issues. There's classes really not always, sometimes classes are way too big. Not in like, in these nice, not only are they not too big, but like anyone, any kid who's deemed like special needs, and of course there's been a lot of mission creep on that term. Sure. Okay. Any kid who's special has to have like a second person,

I think this person that was telling me about it, there was like 20 kids in the class and like eight of them had or four of them or something like that had another person in the class with them. This other, so there were like five teachers in a classroom of 20. The teachers were overclocked. Okay, not the kids. That's not, I haven't heard of that. The teachers were overclocked. Not the kids.

Oh, that's not, that hasn't, I haven't heard of that. No, I will also say though, to your point about special needs, because I was raised in the 80s. I went to a very fancy private school because my mom wanted me to go there, her dying wish was for me to go there and I was smart enough to get in and we had enough.

Wow. Whatever, for me to get in and go. Change my life. Completely changed my life. A beautiful school, had a beautiful 7 through 12th grade experience. My best friend, who is still my best friend, who is going to be the best man in my wedding, went to the same school and he couldn't get the lessons. And I was like, what's the deal, man?

He's like, let me help you out. Let me show you what's up with them,? He's like, let me help you out. Let me show you what's up with them. I'll help you. I just don't know. Turns out he's mildly dyslexic. His learning disability can't read as fast as I can. Just that.

Yeah, sure. His brother, six years younger than him, same thing. By that time, the school had recognized that that's a thing. Right. And his brother sailed through that school like crazy because he had the extra attention, he had the extra time. And as we were saying before, both things are true. Both things are true.

And I think when it's, they get this dialectic where you cannot have one thing because the other thing can't. And that's the problem. See, like if this was CNN, the Democrat, well, first of all, Trump would be on. Trump would be on. I'll get to that in a minute.

I think he, they should have put him on. I did too. Yeah, okay. So I would have had a different approach to the interview style, but there we go. I mean, I don't blame her that much either, but I did have issues, and I don't want to talk too much out of school, because I do a little thing on CNN now,

and I love the guy who's running it, and I think he's got a big job ahead of him, and he's doing a good start, but like the panel afterwards, the Trump thing, that's what bothered me, because CNN has got to find a way to find people, instead of six people, no one has been harder on Trump than me, but to have been six people, all just as soon as it ends.

And this is a thing where he is a hero in this room. He did very well with the crowd. You can't deny that you can hate him and hate what he's saying. I get all that and agree with most of it, but the crowd loved him. He was getting big laughs, big applause. You could just tell, he had them in the palm of his, okay, that's at least half the country.

And then you're gonna have six people who just come on and just, well, he'd like the lies, the lies. Of course, yes, we get it, he lies. You need someone who knows how to talk about this in a way that's a little more balanced. It doesn't deny that, but tries to explain to America why, okay, yes, these are bad things about Trump. But here's why this is even more appealing than what you're selling, and why people don't

care as much about it as you do. You know, he lies, and they're thinking, yeah, but all politicians lie. Now, I would make the counter argument, not to this degree about these issues, but just to start hammering away six people all on the same page. On the same page. I can find the same thing. I can find you people who could be much more interesting talking about this Donald Trump. It is hard to do because he is an incredible liar

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You did real time, two, three times? A couple times, yeah. I remember you said to me once, you said, damn, I'm gonna learn how to do this show one day. Which, and that's, was you're being too hard on yourself. You're perfectly fine. And that is a different show. Yes.

But sitting here talking to you now, I'm like, oh gosh, I see what he's talking about. You're a great political, you know, political social, what? I'm engaged with life. I'm very good to talk about the marriage. That's a different one. But by the way,

well, this time I'm very the lead, congratulations. Thank you of view. But by the way, let's not bury the lead, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And it has changed my life. I feel very happy. I see. It's wonderful.

It's a great, you look healthy. I think makeup. I think makeup. You know, I'm glad you're having a one or two drinks. I mean, it's certainly, I think it's healthier than being in this, these people who are drunk and then they become a kind of a worst version of a drunk. We all met that person.

Right. And some of us have met that person on more than one occasion and met that person in different versions of that person too. And I, the fun thing about coming to this show right after therapy, which I literally came here from there, is these things are kind of recently been talked about. But you know, there is a, anybody that examines their relationship to whatever the fuck they use to take the edge off or manage stress or deal with trauma or what have you is gonna come up against, okay, what is it doing?

Are you supposed to smoke cigarettes? You know, you know, because that's what you did. Cause it was cool. And then I was like at a certain point, I was like, what am I doing? I don't, I don't like this. But it took me 20 years. It took me as many years too.

And I did it twice. I started smoking with 16 because I'd look cool, man. And I was playing baseball. And that's what everybody did. And in Bad News Bears, Kelly leaked smoked cigarettes and he looked cool and he wrote a motorcycle and you know, give me a break. Gotta do it. John, why do you need therapy?

You don't need therapy. I think everybody could use a weekly, biweekly, monthly, some kind of check-in. How you feeling? What do you feel? I don't know, maybe you have it with your friends, maybe you have it with somebody. I like a non. I have it with me. That's... I mean, I have it with my friends too, but I mean, look, I'm just talking out of my ass. I don't know, you like that.

I think the two... But I just feel like I'm talking to a guy who has a very, like, sound grip on life and reality. It doesn't compute to me why you would need to talk to somebody. But maybe you have demons, I don't know. It's not about demons. It really isn't. It's not that going to therapy is not really about sort of wrestling with these, you know,

as you say, existential problems. It's more about checking in and seeing where you are, maintaining your presence and a perspective on life. So, do you see a lady or a dude, like, they said things to you that you were like, oh, I was not aware. Oh, okay. For sure. And again, it's a third party perspective on whether it's relationships, career, drinking, partying, life, whatever,

whatever. And I had a great session today because it was like, I'm in a good place, I had a couple of things to talk about, talked about, I got some perspective on it. And you know, it's helpful, I think it's helpful. Yeah, I have, you know, look, lost my mom and I was 10, my dad and I was 20. My growing up was a hodgepodge of parents, lack of parents, family, lack of family, different family, different definitions of family living by the grace of other people, understanding that I had to, you know,

kind of self-motivate in a lot of ways. And that's, there's a lot of extra baggage that you carry because of that. That's unconscious. Unconscious. But I'm just playing devil with that, Viggett here. But did you ever think, maybe, I mean, I feel like a lot of therapy

is making you dig into things that maybe you wouldn't have dug into on your own or dredge up stuff. Maybe, again, devil's, I'd forget. It's a human mechanism to forget because it's like, yeah, that shit happened and it was bad, but now it's so many years later. I think we're gonna get to the same thing

about two things can be true. Yeah. There's a very valuable part of living that is forgetting and letting things go. And I think that there's a valuable part of life that is examining things that you have been through. Well, can I tell you a short story to my perspective on this? Yes. It may not add anything, but it is so true.

April 7th of this year, I looked at reading the newspaper and I looked up and I saw the date now, and because April 7th was the 50th anniversary of the thing that to this day was the most traumatic thing that ever happened to me in my life. My girlfriend of one year and three months dumped me on April 7th, 1973. And this was so prevalent in my mind, in my life, for so long that I used to write a journal like on April 7th and January 7th, because that was our first date. And then I added the other two sevens, so I had four times a year, but that was really

the provenance of it. And for many years, this was just so, if it wasn't after five or six years, I'm sure it ed ed ed as something that was emotionally there, but I still was writing the journal on those days and I would never forget. This was the, and when 50 came along, it was like, oh my god, I wouldn't have even thought of it except I saw it in the paper. And just the idea that I could come from this place with this thing was like my 9-11

to where I don't even remember that it's a big anniversary. It just shows that, yeah, I'll say this about that because that's actually very funny, first of all. But that, you mean, no, I think funny, I think it's actually very funny, first of all. Pathetic meaning. No, I think funny, I think it's funny. I think that that's actually, that is a supremely human thing. And I think everybody has a version of that, whatever that is, it might not be as bold-faced as a date,

but everyone has a moment that they, especially from that time of their lives. I read a book, Forget Who Wrote It, about the human brain. And it talks about how when you're young, up until about your mid-20s, your brain paths, your neuropaths and your synapses or whatever are significantly wider.

It's the 405. And so all the stuff that comes barreling down there hits you like a ton of bricks, emotions, love and comedy and drama and sadness, all of it is so much more elevated when you're that because the literally it's a physical thing. Not to interrupt, I'll let you get back this in one second, but that thing about narrow and wide pathways is true of all the things in the body. It's why people have urinary problems. It's why people have a hard problem.

You want to keep the passageways free. So I've never heard this aspect of it, which is fascinating. Well, part of it is. Because the ones in the brain are also wise. Yes. And part of it is that you break sense. You break sense. It's still developing.

And you're still developing the little side streets that are like nuance and other things. And other interests and whatever. And now we look like the overpass. The map of Tokyo. We're like Woodstock 99 down there now. But yeah, like you're you're you're still developing those those side streets and things. So it's all run down the 405.

Right. And so you know, what are you thinking about when you're 14, 17, 19? Right. Sports, pussy. Pussy. Pussy, and pussy, yes. And, you know, it's food, right? Yeah. I mean, it's nuts, but it's true, and it cuts across all sexes and genders and affiliations

and what have you, and it is what it is. Like, we are, as you say, at the end of the day, the one thing that binds us all is that this physiology is the same. We are for the most part the same. And I think if we all got back to that and if we could figure out that, you know, it doesn't matter reading about this like, that it doesn't matter reading about this stuff in the Ukraine and how all of the wars happen here. Guys, at the end of the day everyone just wants to go home, make sure their kids are safe, eat, and go sleep, and go to work. Everyone wants to have a job.

And the job right now in Ukraine is making sure the Russians don't come in. Not to be good. And the job in the Russians is like, yeah. Not to be a glib about it or compare these as the same level problems at all, but just on a psychological level, the Ukraine war is exactly the right or strike what we were just talking about. It's like you're going to make a settlement, right?

At some point, it's not going to go on forever. Why can't we do it tomorrow instead of all this pain? And humans are not yet able to fucking accomplish that one. Maybe AI can help. Maybe we'll have trust in AI that it'll just tell us the right fucking answer and we'll all agree. But as of now, that can't happen because AI is programmed by humans. And that's why, have you seen this? It's so funny. AI just makes shit up. Yeah, like what

do humans do? Like humans do. But like at a whole cloth. Yeah, no, if somebody said they did a whole thing like describe me and the guy was like, and he founded the, and he's like, wow. That's amazing. No, exactly. It just is a bullshitter. And it really is human. But this thing about the passageways, I find fascinating because, like, I think it was called, I think it was a book called The Body by Bill Bryson.

Is that name, Rigabell? No. No. But I mean, you know, he was a, um, I'm not asking about what I remember. He was, he made his, he made his like, bones in, uh, travel writing. He wrote about Australia, wrote a book called, In a Sunburn Country, and then he wrote a, uh,

book about traveling through England, called Green Leafy Space, for some reason. But he also wrote, he just kind of does these deep dives into very specific things. And he's a really funny writer. The first time I was introduced to his writing was when I was in college and had no money and would go to the bookstore when they had bookstores. And I would just read books in there for hours on it because it was free and it was entertaining. And he wrote a book called Among the Thugs

and it was about following the Hooligans for Manchester United, like for a season. And it was fascinating. This was back in the 90s when nobody knew what that was all about. You'd hear stories. There was no internet. You'd have to look at a English football man, which no one had. But it was a fascinating thing. I was like, wow, man, these guys go hard. Just roving bands. like, like, like, peaky blinders with, you know, like,

chains wrapped around the thing, like, for what? I love peaky blinders. It's a great show. Not just... Oh, shit. You're killing me, John. You're literally killing me. And I tell you, I'm sure for a lot of women,

the image of you sneaking away to read books in the library because you were too poor. The handsome guy reading books, that has got to wet and more panties than scented candles. I used to go to the Walden books in fluorescent Missouri. I used to ride my bike to Walden books through Ferguson, by the way.

Oh, famously. Famously Ferguson from the riots. Right. That was my route. And I, unlike most people that are scared and freaked out by black people, grew up around black people. So it was like, oh, this is what Ferguson is. It's where black people live.

And it's the nice. I don't think most people today are freaked out or scared. You should go to the Midwest. I said most. Fair enough. Some people, yes. I think this country has changed a lot. And some places and some places

and some places it hasn't. But I feel like the overriding thing is I am terrified of that which I do not know. And what this great information age that we live in has only accelerated is how much we don't know. And it's not helping people know it more. It's helping them be more afraid of it. Does that make sense? Yes.

But on the other point, I just got to say, I travel this country all the time. I know you don't do it. And you obviously travel a lot yourself. I mean, you're on movie sets in different locations. But I'm just saying, I travel around the country. I feel like I'm because of everything that's happened, especially in the last three or four years, since the 2020 social justice protest and so forth.

I feel like, but even before that, I feel like I try to be hyper-vigilant of noticing like, I'm just as an observer. What's going on between the white and the black folks that I see here in the hotel lobby, you know, at the airport, you know, transportation. You just see people at the theater. I just don't see a lot of hate and mistrust among like actual people.

I think that you can see it in their faces. Your your experience of your crowd and of the people that you're seeing too is is. But that's a lot of I'm not I'm not disavowing it. But but really that like the mystic lakes, Minnesota, is that really that different? Yes, it is probably there. I'm sure there are much more red, necky places. But it's also not, you know, Greenwich Village. Yes.

And... And nor is it East Atlanta. Nor is it, you know, Okitobi, Florida. I mean, it's, yes, there are regional differences and all that stuff. My only, this is my pie in the sky, kind of Midwestern optimism, too. It's like, I wish people led with curiosity

and a wonder about what the difference is, rather than fear, and holding it at arm's length because I don't know what that is there for it. It might kill me there for I won't engage. But see, you're not allowed to do that anymore according to the woke. So you're describing what I'm always talking about which is like woke is the opposite of liberalism.

It's not building on it. Curiosity about people and their differences. That's out. That's what liberals were interested in. Now if you ask someone where you're from, meaning it's a giant aggression, and you're fucked, tap into many people. See, you're not allowed.

Don't you think though that, okay, I think, I also feel like there's a sliding scale, correct? That certain people get away with, in my industry, for example. Oh, totally. You're not allowed to play gay, or unless you are. Which is, you're not allowed to play trans, unless you are.

Right. You're not allowed to play a different gender, unless you are. So it's a little bit like, okay, not unlike what we're talking about with the writer's side, but what are we allowed to do? Well, just let me know. It is literally the opposite of what acting is.

Yes. It's being what you're not. But it's worse than that. There's a woman who wrote a book called American Dirt, I don't know if you've heard of it, but it was three years ago. It's going to be a big book. Oprah was all over it until she wasn't, as I recall. And because it's a white lady, imagining what it would be like to go through

what a migrant crossing the border of Mexican. And because she's a white lady, you're not allowed to imagine what it's like to be a Mexican. And see, again, opposite, liberalism was about empathy. Like, no, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes so I can feel your pain. That's traditional liberal compassion.

Now that's the sin. So like, you could believe anything you want. Just don't say that's the thing that's liberalism because I'm gonna stick with what it was. I'm gonna have to claim that. Like empathy, liberalism because I'm gonna stick with what it was. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to claim that. Yeah. Like empathy, liberalism, empathy, and you want to do this other thing where, if I try to be empathetic to something I'm not already, then I'm the bad person. Great, you have that. That's your thing, but that's not what our thing was. So, I don't take the name of my thing and put it on your stupid thing. I also feel like if we're talking again about how pathways

are wider and that this, a lot of this is being run by people that have very little experience in the world. They actually have the world. Yes. Because it's great when you're 23. Exactly. And you know everything. And then you go into the world and you realize how, you know everything.

And then you go into the world and you realize how much you don't know. And you can stand when you're into software and college and tell everybody how everything is supposed to work and this and the other, and it's adorable. But I feel like that's what's happening now, is like it's being run from the top down by this kind of. Exactly. And not trying to be shity or snarky or anything,

but just like saying, there's a lot of people where I feel like the realities of the world haven't sunk in yet. And their pathways are a little too broadway. They need some side streets. I'm both on both sides. Four, Broadway. They need some side streets. I'm both on both sides. For sure. The other side is obviously that because it's easy.

And again, it gets back to this idea of like, let's make America great again. Like, what part? Because we all know what part you're talking about. And by the way, it's still great. Right, I mean, some of that is true. Some of that is racial. There's no doubt about it. Like, for a lot of people, especially poor people. You know, like if you were slightly ahead of another group,

because, and this was the way it has been, and to the degree, it's still, obviously, happens sometimes. But if you had this automatic advantage, which is, oh, we're both up for the job. I'm white, they're going to give it to me because the other guy up for the job is black. Now that is... The other guy's Italian. Yeah, that's the history of America.

Yes. Up until a certain point where, okay, then we changed the law. That didn't mean people still didn't do it. But for a while, it wasn't even changed the law. That didn't mean people still didn't do it, but for a while it wasn't even against the law. Okay. So then, okay, now it's against the law. This is how society changes incrementally. There is no revolutions, just evolutions. So, I always keep just, keep saying, let's live in the year, we're living in. How much of this is going on now? Now, there are certainly many places where you're in an advantage to be a person of color,

because the last thing that's cool now is white, older, male, you know. So, this, great, I'm all for that, turn about his fair play, but just don't look me in the eye and tell me the thing that was happening 30 years ago is happening now, or that we're at the same place. We're definitely not the same place. Yeah.

I would take issue with the fact that it's not happening. I didn't say it wasn't happening. Right. But what you said, don't tell me that the thing is happening. Well, I said to the degree it was 30 years ago or even 10 years ago. And it's what you said, like, I'm, if you look at history and you expect there to be these page turns of like, now we're like the Supreme Court decided that racism was over, so they got rid of the Voting Rights Act and you're like,

that seems premature. It was. That was. That seems premature and that seems motivated by a, by a, but again, particularly political and not jurisprudential set of, of, of, yeah, it's, it's, it's totally political. But here's the thing. The reason why Republicans want to stop black people from voting is because black people don't vote for that. The reason why the public is- The reason why the public is- The reason why the public is-

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Yes. From Thurmond and Johnson pissed all the Southern Democrats. Well, they were at Dixie Cratch. They were the... They were the ultimate segregation. A man who until the almost the 21st century referred to a microphone as a machine. A machine, I remember that in the Robert Clyde.

To begin with the machine, Saturday. That's Saturday, yeah. But a man who ran against Zach Gowell-Fanakis' uncle in North Carolina, who would have won, he not said that because Zach's uncle or cousin or whoever it was at Rand was Greek, said he was not one of us. Oh, God. He's the other Greeks. They're the real insidious crowd that want to give you food.

I mean, they're practically Albanians. Like, Balushi, another one you got to keep an eye on. No, he was Macedonian. I thought he was Albanian. I mean, no, yes, maybe you're right. You may be right, maybe you're right. Yes, you're right. Only there was a machine.

I'll be kept in her pocket. I had all the facts. No, and her fingertips. No, I remember it now. I saw the documentary. Yes, Albanian. You're correct. But you know, I think it's, I think it's a, I, again, I, I, I maintain.

And I think it's what's kept me moving forward in my career, my life and all the things that, the setbacks I've had to deal with, whatever part of my life that I have. I maintain an optimism about not just my own existence itself and people in the world, but I feel like everyone's like, oh, Trump, it's going to be the end of the thing. And that's a wrap, and you're like, or it's going to be four weird years. Right. As it was. And it was four weird years.

Well, I mean, obviously, the problem with Trump again is that it changes just the very nature of the country so we don't really abide by elections anymore. That's the biggest problem. That's the hard one to take, which I don't think is permanent. I don't think so again. It's my optimism. I do think it is.

I think once you go to that step where you don't, then it's gonna be a long time. Then this country will not come back until Charlton has then finds the arm of the statureiro Liberty sticking up out of the sand. That's pessimism. I'm optimistic. That is what we're talking about. Stachiro Liberty, bearing that to our fucking hard pessimism. That is pessimism. But I truly believe, well, we certainly will not be a democracy anymore.

We'll be more like countries where the people in power just use that power to keep their grip on power. Yes. And I feel like that, I do feel like that, that was the tipping point on January 6th was certainly that. And this idea that the side that engendered that particular situation decided that they were not then going to because they had to say that it wasn't what it was. Now we're in like Stalin's thing of like, we're that, what you saw,

pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Like we all watched it. I watched it sitting in my office with my jaw on my desk going like, but this isn't, this can't be happening. But, see, the Democrats' mistake with that was to try to pin the whole thing on what Trump said that day to the crowd. The crime wasn't what he said that day. The crime was the every day after the election

when he didn't admit he lost. It was at every day crime. It wasn't like- I'll go back even further because I- Oh, me too. You're sure. Yeah, sure. Every week, and I watched you say,

this is a slow-moving coup. And it's the only way that he was never going to get states. And he was never going to give up power when he does. Right. And he went out the back door. And he's still doing it. And he's still doing it. And it's a bummer that I don't know what's gonna happen

with DeSantis and all the nonsense that is coming out of Florida, but Florida is at peak Florida at this point. Wow. Why, were you there recently? No, I just, I read in the news. Yeah. How are you gonna get in a fight with Disney?

That's a losing art. Oh, today they pulled out their billion dollars. A billion dollars. Okay, good for business. Bob Iger, Godloven, the guy who fired me at ABC. But see again, so many years ago, it's almost like my 50 anniversary thing. It's like, there was a moment when it was like,

oh, ABC, you bastard. It's just because all the sponsors pulled out, you have to fire me. But I was never that bitter. And like, I don't even think about it. I've seen Bob Hikerot many times in part. So let me put it in a situation. And what a badass movie pulled.

I got to give them to you. And let me put it to you this way. Because I think this is, I think this works as a thought exercise. You were for want of a better word back in 98 99 when was that was on from 93 to 2002 2002 okay it was a couple years off. You were canceled. Correct. Literally. Well before it was literal.

It was literal. The world, yeah, you were canceled, but you were also canceled because you couldn't trust you. Yeah, that's true. You could trust God. No one could be trusted. Where was I going to throw him? Right.

He's with the terrorist. What can come back up? Because what you're saying and what you're doing is actually relevant. And so there's always going to be a marker for that. And so I think that again, when we're talking about this cancel culture, there were people that deserve to be canceled in some way, shape or form. The reach exceeded their grasp, I think.

And then it became, oh, how did you, what was this? He said, she said, yeah. And a lot of people got scooped up in a net, but... Right, yeah. And a lot of people got scooped up in a net. Right, yes. But overall, the correction corrected itself. And then those people that were scooped up in the fine. Everybody was doing their thing. Well, the shiples not wanting for work.

Well, you're picking an example. There are many people who are not doing fine who are scooped up in the net. They're picking an example. There are many people who are not doing fine, who are scooped up in the net. Who've lost, you example Al Franken? Now that was, that was a, once again, ridiculous over correction. Okay, but I can say I could name lots of people who got scooped up. I think, I wonder to this day, had Al said, no.

Yeah, he should have. And he should have. And I think he knows it. And I think, you know, I mean, I'm so fond of Al. As am I. Yeah. I went on fundraising trips to Minnesota with Al and watched him with his constituents in a room in Duluth

in Eden Prairie and all these places in Minnesota. And it was very clear to me that the guy was like engaged, loved his constituents. And smart, smart as all get out and funny. And also a homework doer. Yes, not a show pony. I mean, I thought he took it a little too far. And there was a long time he wouldn't do,

I understood why. He was a comedian elected to the Senate. So he didn't want to do comedy stuff on shows. And then, of course, after he was out of office, he didn't have to worry about that. I mean, he was a little rusty, but Al's just a great comedian, first of all. But he is wildly intelligent.

And you can use that in the Senate, and he could have been a big force by now. He could be running for price. I said this about that. I mean, Zalinsky's a comedian. Yes, and I said this about that when Trump were in the first time. I was like, and by the way, Al Franken, you could still do it. I don't think the final page has turned on the chat. Well, just because you're not in the Senate,

people of Trump wasn't in the Senate. No. Trump was barely in polite society. I am 100% and would endorse that tomorrow. Yeah. I said this about... I hadn't thought of that before. Yeah, he could just say, fuck it.

There's no rules anymore. No. You can run for president. There's no rules about anything, but especially that. The rock is thinking out loud about it. Yeah. You know, Caitlin Jenner wanted to be governor of California.

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skincare with Caldera Lab. I was at some fancy dinner again because I get invited to these things and I'd love to go to Mr. Fancy. And the question came up like, how is Hillary gonna be Trump? And I said, they should hire joke writers because the one thing Trump cannot take is a joke.

Hey, that's true. Well, but if you, I don't know, may, he tries, because he has the kind of playground mentality bully-like. He likes it. Ha-ha, poke-poke, but when he gets poked back. He likes it. He must like it because he's always treating about,

or saying something in a rally, but me in a very derogatory way, because he's always treating about or saying something in a rally about me in a very derogatory way because he's always accidentally watching this guy is the most devoted accidental viewer I've ever had. And you and I know. Yeah, well that I understand why he would because they're actually doing him. But for him to like take umbridge at some of the things and he you're not going to beat him by being a bigger dick.

No, he's got that space very much marked off. And also, it's like, it's almost refreshing, even though I don't agree usually with what he's saying. Like, to watch a guy, this is what people love about him. To watch a guy, you just expect a politician to like say the political thing. And this guy is like, fuck it. And there is something like...

The Farts in the Punch Bowl. Well, he, like, shithole countries. As if we all haven't said that. As if we all haven't thought that. As if all the people who came from shithole countries, if they were an offended, because they were like, fuck right, I'm from a shit hole guy. Why do you think I came here?

Why do you think I risked getting in a fucking, you know, rubber raft or whatever. That's why. There's a reason I left. So like shit like that, I understand people are like, yeah, he talks like a person. He doesn't lie and use you. And then other things are just obviously abhorrent,

but he's all id. Yes, exactly. Right, there's no super-rigo, as I learned it from Freddie and whenever I took, right, super-rigo ego-id. Yeah, it's all from the, you know. All id. I've known, I've known actors like that.

For sure. Well, he is, yes lizard brain. I've known actors like that. For sure. Well, he is. Yes, at the core, he's an actor. He's a bad actor. You can see the work. You can say, it's so funny. He's the old... He can see the work.

That's all. Is that what they say? Yeah, I'm sure they do. You can see the work. No, he gets results. Well, you can... You said about his... See anything. He got laughs. Oh, he gets results. Well, you can, you said about his, see the other thing. He got laughs.

Oh, he had, they loved him. He worked the crowd, he worked the room. But I say this about your show a lot because I sometimes wish that you would do your show not in front of an audience because I think you would have a more in depth discount. Well, of course you would never do that. You're a comic. Exactly. You love the audience and it's for the audience in depth discount. Well, of course, you would never do that. You're a comic.

Exactly. You hate the audience. And you love the audience, and it's for the audience in many ways. I love the audience now. I didn't always. I mean, the audience changed about, I don't know, definitely the pandemic had something to do with it.

We like had to, like get rid of half the crowd because of social distancing during the forever flu. Oh my God. So you get it? Of course, I got it only, right. Which one did you get? I don't want to get into it. You're talking about the vaccine or the flu.

The flu. You mean the COVID? I think. I was fine until I got the vaccine and then I got the vaccine and I got it like a month later. I don't want to start the whole thing. I understand the vaccine was very necessary and...

I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Millions of people would be dead without the vaccine. True. I'm not one of those. So I shouldn't have been forced to take it. And after I had the vaccine, I think it absolutely had everything to do with me then getting it. It also very well could have been why it was a super mild thing where I barely noticed I had it. Both things could, again, both things could be true.

If we could have, we're running for president tomorrow. Right. You can be president. I'll be vice president. By the way, this is why I'm here. I love you. We'll flip a coin. Whatever.

But that's why I have... That's why I... Both things can be true. I love... I love Midwestern people. Whatever, but that's why things can be true. How does Logan is that? You know who I always love? I love Midwestern people because they don't have, I don't know, there's just something about them that's common-sensical and this is what Trump's biggest Trump card is.

It's like, here's what conservatives always say to me about him. What you don't get is, we don't like him either. They don't like him, although they do, in a way, but they feel like he's the thing that stands between them and this other thing where we've lost our mind, where men are having babies. And I don't have it. I know. But I'm just saying,'s his appeal and that's what somebody needs to go on CNN and Just be there on the panel to add that Note to the discussion. I mean, I agree. It's it's it's it's always been fascinating to me when whenever that happens It's MSNBC would have you it's it's the same thing on Fox. I, watching Fox during the whole course of the run up to the indictment was like, oh, and then watching Tucker Carlson and you're

like, this guy, you've actually watched it. Yeah. I've never been able to watch it. It's rough because again, you can see the work. It's this. It's what's done. John Stout did so great. He was like, this is theater. You're doing a bit right now. Yeah. And he's like, how dare you? I'm this way that he goes, explain to me. You're wearing a bow tie. Right.

How is that not a costume? Right. Which of course it was. And I don't know. It's telling that that guy got what he got and how he got got was interesting. And I don't think that it's all come out yet about that. Is it an amazing what they found in his texts?

I mean, like, I think that's why they paid almost a billion dollars so they didn't get in anybody else's texts. They were like, let's shut this down now. Well, that, what I read was the reason why they paid off is because there was ones that hadn't come out and one of them said something that was, Well, that, what I read was the reason why they paid office, because there was ones that hadn't come out, and one of them said something that was was, of course,

there is still a lot, as you're pointing out, of real racism in this country. And he, there was the phrase, that's not how a white man fights. Now, see, there you go, there's some racism. I'm happy to like- From a guy who doesn't mean- Get out in the streets for you.

What? From a guy who lives in Maine. Right. For- but for the stuff that is, and there it is. And there it is. And by the way, Kennedy, that was the greatest political sacrifice any politician ever made. He took the Democratic Party and the South used to be called the solid South, meaning solid Democratic South.

And within two elections, it was the solid republic itself. It was read about a political sacrifice. But he did that because he sent troops to make sure that black kids could go to the school. And LBJ doubled down. And LBJ finished the job. Yes, passed. And that's when J. The fifth silver rice. Yes, past. Yeah, and that's when the Democrats lost the red necks. True.

And they wound up in a party that like- But now, again, here we are, 50 years later, 50 plus years later, and George's purple with blue. Yes, exactly. South Carolina might be coming soon. Right. Like the- Talk about incremental change. By the way, when I, again, anecdotal,

but I do travel a lot, when I travel to a lot of these southern cities, I feel like back in the day when I did, everybody talk like me, it was like, you know, the deliverance kid for fuck's sake. No, not that, but it was like Southern. And like now, they don't even have accents in Raleigh and Dallas and Austin. You know why? And Houston because they have international

companies employing them. And because lots of people like to live in a place that isn't so fucking uptight. When you go to Atlanta, for example, I shop five movies in a row in Atlanta. Wow. Atlanta has the world, whatever, United States headquarters of Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Delta, Coca-Cola, Pfizer, I believe. And like two other huge multinational corporations. Wow. And then Georgia Tech University, Emory University, Georgia State University,

all within the Atlanta, Fulton County. And kind of the black capital of America. Black capital of America, for Chicago, certainly gets to be in the district. Oh, and you go out to dinner in Atlanta, and there's world-class food, there's great restaurants, there's fun bars, there's beautiful music and art museums and the whole thing. And it's not like in New York or LA. It's actually like black people and white people go to the same places. That's what I'm saying is like, just let's live in the year we're living in

because I'm seeing that too. And the reason is, because they all have great jobs and they all have great money. And because we're just further down the road, there's been more, I mean, much more interracial marriage. You know, it's very hard to like, you know, be fully on one side of it

when mom and dad are of different races. You know, you kind of have to, I mean, that's why Obama. I think the thing was sucking away from this, the greatest part of this whole interview is like, let's live in the year we're living in and not be wistful for this mystical fucking Neverland of a time that didn't exist. I see if anything about this resembles an interview.

My conversation, I get asked all the time about madman saying like, don't you wish, man, don't you wish? And I go, I'm a fan of painless dentistry. Yeah. I don't know if you remember the scene in madman where Don gets his tooth pulled, but it was rough. And like, I just don't, I'm like, no, it's better now.

No, I don't. And I watched that show devotedly. I think it was a very brief. Oh, that, you know what that tells me? I forget to do plugs. So I'm gonna do my plugs. And then you're gonna do your first, okay? It's a wide, minor rundown.

No. Okay. Well, one of us needs aid. June 16th, it said, oh, I'm in Vegas. We gotta go to Vegas together sometime. Really? Yes, I love Vegas.

Oh, perfect. But not in the way that people love Vegas. I love Vegas because there's something about Vegas that is like unapologetically Vegas. Of course, that's what we love about that. There's gold on every surface, there's end sparkly things. And it's politically incorrect. And proud of it, or as proud as you can be these days.

Yes. And it's for adults. It's for adults or as proud as you can be these days. Yes. And it's for adults. It's for adults. You know, they tried in like the early, yeah, remember that? That was a bad fit. Like Disney in the desert. And I was like, no it isn't.

Exactly. There's no experiment rhino at Disney. Exactly. Exactly. They were, they, it was a massive failure. You're doing the bitch for me. Yes. That's exactly what year was that?

Like 95. I feel like, yeah, they really tried. It was a family destination. It was like classic. And then it literally was like, new friends. Three years later, it's like, what happened in Vegas? Stays in Vegas. You're like, oh, right.

That's what it is. That's what we meant. Right. In and of your kids. No. And of course Vegas was probably the best when it was run by the mob. I mean, I'm sure it was.

Vegas was better when it was a little smaller. It feels like it's too. Yes. Yeah. Oh, and I mean, there's, you know what's great about it, though, is that the audiences are so hip, which is so ironic. I never thought I'd say that because when I first played Vegas

as an opening act for people like Frankie Ballet and the four seasons. Like the Sands? Diana Ross. Yes, I was at the Sands, my friend. Wow. Yeah, I was at Caesar's Palace with Diana Ross. This was like my big feather in my cap, you know,

credits when I was coming up in the 80s. Sure. OK, but I was an opening act, it was horrible. Anyway, the town was not hip, at least the crowds that came out weren't. Now, they're so hip because there's so many people in Vegas at any one time that yes, 90% of them are hicks who wanna go see fucking dolphins or magic or shit,

but there's 10% is still like a lot of people. So I can do a great business in Vegas. Well, only June 16th and 17th. You can do a business there. The whole, it serves the whole swath of entertainment. It's all fucked the others. I'm there at the MGM. When is it grand?

June 16th. Thank you, Ed. June 16th and 17th. Yes. June 16th. Oh, wise one. Phil Hartman, you're doing Phil Hartman. I'm doing Phil Newing.

I do Phil Hartman, that's awesome. When a guy does the best one, you just gotta do his. Well, when I look, when I do Johnny, I do Dana Kirby's Johnny when he does it. That's funny, I do. I do Rich Little Rich Little. Oh, okay. Yeah, that is more Dana. Okay, and Club randoms. We're just, Club randoms, which little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little Okay, Clevver in the video is now also being featured on Spotify.

I'm sure it's not a Spotify ad video component. Exactly. Now we do. Because it's that fucking select and we made the cut. Thank you, Spotify. So your plug, see, I'm not completely gone, is your new movie with Tina Fey and... My self. Tell me about... Directed by John Slatter, it's called Maggie Moore. You're a new movie with Dina Fey and...

Don't do it myself. Tell me about it. Directed by John Slatter, it's called Maggie Moore. Oh, yes, John Slatter, you're a boy from Mad Men. Yes, Roger Sterling and I get about that. I think it's so good about that when you see that people stayed friends. So John directed this wonderful film called Maggie Moore's

with the plural, and it's a murder mystery about two women who get killed who have the same name and it's like unraveling the weirdness. It's got funny elements, it's very dark comedy. Tina Fey and myself get wound up in this murder situation and that will be debuting at the Tribeca Film Festival early June. I want to say June 12th and then in the fall, I said June 12th, and then in the fall, Fargo season five. Oh, you're doing Fargo? We'll be coming out.

All right, that's awesome. As well as the morning shows, season three. So I have a couple of screens that I will be on and, yes, making prestige television and independent film to please the people. And you do it so well. You've really endured. How long ago was...

When did Mad Man first go in the year? 2006 or 2007. Oh, so you're like your 20th anniversary almost of being famous, well. Yeah. And I'm just finally getting a handle on it. I wouldn't say that. I think you've done very well. What did you do?

What did you get out of a limousine and show your pussy? No, I don't remember any that. Not yet. No, I mean, what did you ever do that was so terrible? Nothing. But my point is simply that, you know, I see friends of mine that go through the same, you know, kind of, you shoot on the rocket to the moon,

and there's understandably there is a, you know And understandably, you're weightless for a second. So you have to figure out how to manage it. And there's no rule book. But you know what, when in a, the thing, you're talking like you fucking, fucked a monkey or something. No, I don't even know. I'm not saying, I'm not particularly saying,

I didn't do anything wrong. But see, the thing is, when it happened to you, you weren't a kid. Yes. That's why it worked fine for you, because you already like, not a noodnic. Don't understand how tough, right? When you're young. I don't get it. I don't get how they do it. The only person that I've known or worked with that was famous, from a very famous famous, from a very young age, was Dan Radcliffe, and he has two great parents. And he went through his version of of bananas, whatever, but he came out of it great, and he's got a kid now, and he's you know, great, he's doing great. And I loved working with him, he's a wonderful actor. But I was like, that is a, at 13,

to be Harry Potter on this planet. Right, sure. Is a lot. And I loved working with him, and I still consider him a great friend, and he's doing great. And similar thing, he's in his, I think he's 30 something now.

However, I will trade that for my experience when I was 13, 14, 15, 16, 10, I will totally trade that me too for masturbation and getting beat up, you know, or, you know, kickball and yeah, having fun. Like I mean, I there's something about actually having a childhood that you can be a kid in. sympathy for people who have exceptional childhoods that are actually in many ways better than my shitty fucking anxious, ridden childhood. I have limited sympathy. I just do because, you know, was it really, yes, there were parts of it that were bad, was it really worse to be Harry Potter when you're 13? I feel like you're very lucky.

Oh, yeah. I think I would say that too. Right. Right. Right. And, you know, he's certainly, I don't remember any scandal about him, and so he's not one of those kid actors from sitcoms, are you fine blowing bombs? You know, there was some plague with child actors

for a while. There was a while where, yeah, there's some stuff. Because they probably were abused in a certain way. I think that that was almost systemic at a certain point. But yeah, again, if we're talking about living in the world that we live in now, I think that having the ability to understand like how trauma affects your life

and how you can actually manage it and deal with it and actually get help and deal with it and actually get help and come through it. It's not a scarlet letter that you have to bear for your entire life. You can actually go like, yeah, that happened and it sucked and I've worked on it. I'm now better. You talk about it in a certain way and I think you're right. I think your idea of just like, you know what?

Manage it and then go on through your day And find out what it is that makes you happy and pursue that. And yours is stand up and you've done it for, I've watched you on, what a danger field or something on the 80s on HBO. When I just did my DLHBO for mine. Right. Now, my first time on TV was evening at the improv.

It was one of those shows in the early 80s, where it stand up, you know, it was kind of a new thing all these young comedians. It used to be like one new comedian a year, and then there was like a million. So they just basically shot the brick wall at the comedy club. There was a number of those shows.

We called them brick wall shows. And that was the first time I came out here in October of 1981. I remember the little suit that I wore. And of course. You know, just, and then there was a big discussion about whether if I did jokes on that show, I could then do them on the Tonight Show because the Tonight Show was very rigorous about you do your material on us first. Then you can do a Merve Griffin. There were a lot of rules with the stand up.

Well, because there were like four shows, too. Yes, there was other shows, right. And you weren't you? And the tonight show was the pinnacle. Yeah, that was the chain, the tonight show, and then Murph. Murph, you know, it was the other one, Dynastore. That was before my time, Dynastore,

I remember, man. You watched some of those shows. Mike Douglas. Mike Douglas, I like Mike. Tom Snyder, I used to man. You watch some of those. Mike Douglas. Mike Douglas, I like Mike. Tom Snyder I used to do, but that was late night. Yeah, that was late night. The daytime shows were, I remember, God. Part of this was why I really wanted to come to California

because I remember seeing not only the daytime talk shows, Merv Griffin, who had such a, well, he was on it. Malif Lewis toned to his... Yeah, I was talking like, this is a, yeah, you do. That's... Oh, the line.

Rick Moran. I just said, yeah, I'm going to get him right. Rick Moran is the right, right, and the nerve-gryphan. Oh, let me see that line in. But it was a three-ferr on those shows. If anybody's watching Google Robert Morse,

Merve Griffin, and just see what happened on the Merv Griffin, what happened? It is chaos. Bobby Robert Morris from your show. Yes, and it's amazing. He's probably 30. Right, it's probably on Broadway in the show. He might have been, he was ironically cast.

Famous. Famous for that. And they brought him on the show. I think he might have been, he would say, that was ironically cast. Famous. Famous, famously famous for that. And then brought him on the show, came on. Show came on. How does it seem to be? This without really trying. And, or maybe the movie had come out. And that was what he was.

People probably will remember the song that he, the lead, sings to the mirror I believe in you. Which was. Great song. And great spirit of the song because it was so of a time that we have so lost. You're talking about optimism

and to singing in the mirror, I believe in you. And there's no shortness of irony in that song either. But it's very funny that he's doing that because he's trying to pump himself up. Which we all are doing every day, every day. Every day, baby. Well, can you get the number of your therapist? Okay.

Okay. I, that, that and game shows made me want to move to LA because I was like, man, game show. There's some fun shit happening during the day. It's CBS, television, city. Okay. In the day, you're right. There's something about. They're going to do parts, having a little breakfast,

then rolling over to where you should shoot your show. CBS television city and they are. There's something about doing bad stuff in the day that makes it even better. I mean, I know people think I'm a giant pothead. I don't know why. I'm just gonna say it all the time. And when they see me, but I'm not.

I don't smoke that often. I smoke here. I smoke in special occasions. And but whenever I, so I'm not most of my life been high in the day at all. But on those rare occasions, when I do get high in the day, it's great. Maybe it's because I'm more awake or something, but I think there's something about,

ooh, you're saying it makes you woke? We're doing, well, we're doing like adulty nighttime, sexy things, but we're doing it in the day. I feel like it's like vacation. It's like when you're on vacation. No, great. It's like being on vacation, like when you're sitting by the pool

and you're eating a pizza and you're having a drink. And it's 2.30. Right. And you're like, well, I don't have anything else to do. You just feel good about yourself. Yes. You just do.

I know. You were just, you're right. You just do. I know. You're just, right. You feel like I made it. Or at least I made it enough to like, I made it here. Take to the lounge chair. But I think you have handled the whole celebrity thing as well as it can be done.

First of all, I see you on so many commercials. Okay. You know, you're both like not unhippet-all, super-hipp, but also like enough to, like very often the sacrifice for being a hip is like, you know, like commercial would never go near me. I'm way too toxic to God knows what I'll say tomorrow. You know, they don't want to be like, hey, I'm Bill Morph, you're Del Monte,

and I'm like, I gotta say something. hey, Bill Marfford Del Monte. And that guy says something. Okay, we're stuck with a warehouse. Ten peaches. Ten peaches. Okay, so, um, and have you syrup. But you, you, uh, that's so funny. That's an all the family joke. It's a deep cut, but I was gonna say,

who are your writers? I guess Norman Lee. Norman Lee. Start at the sound. Still going strong at 101. 101, man. That gives you hope, right? He gives me hope.

There was a guy that was doing it in a way that he didn't have to do it in the 70s. Making shows about underrepresented people making shows and making them funny. It wasn't homework to watch good times. Not at all. It wasn't homework to watch. Exactly.

That's such an important point. For me also like one day at a time, I raised my single mom, like that was such a huge show for me. Like I also loved, don't get me wrong, I also loved a three-s company. But like one day at a time was like,

Ronnie Franklin, getting it done as a single mom, I was like, that's my mom, like that's amazing. Like oh my, but you're thinking about like weaving the comedy seamlessly and so that it wasn't messaging. That's something that they seem to have lost the skill to do in movies. I remember doing bits about,

I think it was the Oscars of like a year ago when it was Nomad Land and like all these just downer, you know, shitting in a bucket movie that nobody saw, that nobody saw because they weren't, they had known howitting in a bucket movie, the nobody saw. That nobody saw, because they weren't, they had known how to, in the past, make movies that were about something, but also make them entertaining. Chinatown is about something,

but it's also a story and a plot. And so it was three days of the condor, and one was the one about three mile island, the China Syndrome? China Syndrome, yeah. I mean, all the, they, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, Remember what the big reveal is in the third act of that movie? That his boyfriend wants to get a sex change operation.

Right. Right. I remember boyfriend, yes, John. Chris Serandon. It plays the boyfriend. John's John. John Kazalis is partner that they're shooting up the boat. Okay, right.

His boyfriend is Chris Serandon and then he wants to get a thing. You're like, talk about bearing the lead. Talk about being ahead of your time. Way out of your time. Like, what do I mean? I forgot about it. And I forgot about it. I forgot about it.

It's riveting and then all of a sudden, my third act here comes like a wild lantern. And it's still great, but you could, it wasn't about that. It just happened to me. Right. Right. Engaging with that.

In a way that's preaching about it. Yeah. And Charles Durning is like, what's that? What? Charles Durning is in there. He's the cop that has to handle the, it's a great film. That's one of my favorite films.

I was just watching shampoo. Again, talk about a great film. One of the greatest lines in cinema, which is Jack Warden, walking by the thing where Warren Bates is fucking Julie Christie and he looks in the window and he goes, now that's what I call fucking I haven't got doesn't realize that that Warren Beatty fucking his own girlfriend, but that's on the mistress

mistress. Yes, sorry and the door sort of slides open and he's illuminated, but Jack Warden had a great career. Jack were I feel like a lot of his career was tied to Warren, baby. Yeah. Well, having him wait, we played the football. Having him wait, yes. But yeah, what a great. Yeah, hopefully that's gonna be my third. I'm not gonna lie. Jack Warden is better to be John Hamm,

the John Hamms of the world than the Jack Warden. I mean, Jack Warden, it's a nice job. It is, but it's a little like the upholstery business in the amount of excitement, it actually. Fair enough. And that's, you know, but you just, you know, you had a good combination of, you know, being born attractive and then, you know, smart.

That's, you know, a big-edged in show business. A lot of the, I'm sorry to say it, but a lot of actors are not that bright. So, there's no politics. That's just an observation that tends to be true because you're not rewarded for it necessarily. But it does come across, and so it's great if you can be a leading man

and they can sense that you have a brain in your head because it's not always been a prerequisite. No, but like I mentioned how free Bogart, I mean like there was just something about him that but it was this authenticity. That's what I mean, that's something that is very attractive on screen especially. And you can't quite... I think there's something that I think, look, if you look at Harrison, Harrison Ford's probably the best example, right? He's been a movie star for six decades, probably, right? 70s, 80s, 90s. Oh my God.

So, it's... There's something that people see in Harrison Ford that they can relate to. Yeah, he spent her treasuries type. Exactly. He looks like their dad, your uncle, your cousin, your brother that you like, all of it has positive resonance. And that is great in a movie star. Tom Cruise is a different way. Tom Cruise looks like the guy who is the captain of the football team times the president, rhymes the Neil Armstrong, times all the other stuff.

And there's something about that too, which is great. I agree. And you want both of those cows in the world. Did he personally call you to be in Top Gun? No, but I remember when I said yes to it, I got a call very soon after that saying, I can't wait to make this movie with you.

But, and I was like, I feel like three scenes in this movie, but he's still reached out and said, you know, I can't wait to do it. Well, there were three good ones. I agree, don't get me wrong. No, I loved every minute of it. But also, I'm just thinking Tom Cruise is not the kind of guy who doesn't like, I think,

look after every detail in a movie. So for you, he must have wanted you there. I mean, maybe it wasn't his first name. There is nothing on set that Tom doesn't want there. Exactly. So it is, and it is what he does. So it, well, it is, he is a curious, an experience that is, and for as long as he has, it almost makes you think

there's something to say in dollar. There isn't, but it's one of those things that lead you down a path. It's the lesson. It works for you. No, he is a sweet genre, as they would say in Paris. Yeah. He is one of a kind.

He just, yeah. And the experience was, I can only say, as advertised, you just saw it in person, you knew it was going to be magnified on the screen. And everything about that experience was, and I watched him, because I had my part to play, I wasn't producing the film, I wasn't had nothing to do other than show up, know my lines, look good in the suit, make sure I wasn't producing the film. I wasn't had nothing to do other than show up, know my lines, look good in the suit, make sure I wasn't letting it slip. It's not right and down your head.

Exactly. But I watched how we took care of all the younger actors and was very aware that a lot of them was their first movie, for certainly the other movie. It was a major motion picture. And I was like, man, I've definitely seen the other version

of that where it's like, fuck you. Figure it out. No, no, no. I'll do something that'll kind of take your legs out of you and he was not that guy. It's funny. I don't know if all scientists are like that, but he is a lot like the Mormons,

which makes sense because they're both recent religions, which is unforgivable to be recently a religion. But okay. But in the sense that Mormons, like when you read about it and though, the things they believe and you're like, I can't believe a few people really. And then you meet them in person and they're just the nicest people in the world.

And those are the kind of paradoxes that people in this country politically have to keep in mind that even a Trump voter cannot be a heart, it doesn't make them a monster automatically. It's good. And they're wrong about a lot of things. There's monsters on both sides.

They really are. And also, it's just a big country with lots of people who don't see the world. Lord Michaels just say about SNL. He goes, you know, we're on in all 50 states. Now, is that Dana Garvey's look? I'm not sure. Lord Michael's just say about SNL. He goes, you know, we're on in all 50 states. Now, is that Dana Garvey's, look, I'm not sure. It's pretty good.

It's a lot. I think it is. It might be Dana. It's Dana. I've been listening to a lot of their podcast recently, but it's true. And he has, as a Canadian even, he has a sense of, we are appealing to a wide swath.

Absolutely, very brilliant. And we are all part of the community, and this is something that we all have to pay attention to. And it's very true and I think this is another thing, another strike against the social media of it all. But when you're forced to actually interact with people on a face-to-face basis and you talk to them and you breathe the same air and you're in the same space, you get a very different experience than you do when you're typing on a screen. Very different. Or when you're yelling the same space, you get a very different experience than you do when you're typing on a screen. It's very different.

Or when you're yelling at a camera about somebody. Yes. And it is wildly different. Why remember learning that lesson? When I was a teenager and I went on my class trip to Washington, D.C., when I was 16 years old, and I met our senior senator from Missouri there, John Danforth.

Right, I remember. And I was like, this guy, he wants, he's gonna take away the blah blah blah. And I met him, I was like, great, this guy I've ever met. Like, you're kidding me? Oh, that guy's like, that happy. That classy and like, his smart, funny, he's got a great story. Right. A great office, it smells good.

And humble. I'm proud. Who's humble? Well, because he's from old money, Missouri. Like, he's got a little blue blood sense to him, but even that was like, God, what? Well, humble in the- Put a carriage.

He was six, four, he had a deep voice. Look at what I thought, you know. I said, I'm a sinner with my- I said, humble in this sense, hopefully, that he could laugh at himself. And in person, they all do. Right. Because they all know that they're ridiculously lucky.

You think Matt, I mean, I don't know if Matt Gates laughs at himself, but I bet he does. He's like, look what I'm getting away with. I'll do it for him. So that's so interesting. What were you like in high school? Were you like, you said you were 16 and on this class trip, were you little like popular?

Well, it was part of it was a theater trip because we went to New York and DC and we saw a play at the arena stage in DC. Some Shakespeare, there were a lot of things. Popular by then? Yeah. You were. Yeah.

And what? Because I was engaged with all parts of school. I was smart because I liked class. I liked participating in class. And there was also athletic. I loved doing that. And my school that I went to, you were encouraged to do the arts, whether it was painting or sculpture,

or singing or play instrument, or theater. You did drama, I did theater. I tried painting in sky, it was bad at it. I was like, they were like, okay, if you're bad at it, you don't have to do it, but try. And I tried and then I did theater. And I was like, well, this is actually like, this is kind of fun.

And I got feedback that, right. I just, I did, that's interesting. You did all those things. I did none of those things. So, you were this good-looking job. You find your way. Uh, gay. No, but you were into theater.

And, uh, what was the, uh, we, uh, that's a lot. I could say why you were popular. I... But I had a lot of friends that did the same thing. Like, our theater teacher was wildly smart. He's like, get the jocks in. Guys, it's fun. It's not...

There's no stigma to it. There wasn't the, you know, the Ferris Bueller. Well, there's the dorks, the dweebs, the burnouts, the this is the that. We were all just kind of in the same, you know, melting pot at that school. And that was what it really did. Shout out to John Burrow's school.

It was based on John Burrow's famous naturalist from 19th century in Thomas Dewey, which was art as experience. Like, you must experience things to understand. Maybe you won't like them. Well, that's not very redneck-y for Missouri. Right? There's a lot of Missouri.

Exactly. There's a lot of everywhere. Yeah. It's really almost unpredictable, almost a fool's errand to try to predict how people will be in certain places. I mean, you could, oh, we're going to the redneck Riviera. I'm sure they're going to be, and sometimes they are. And sometimes they're not.

Yeah. And it's part of, it's, I think the best lesson, which is just be present, take it in. I think the thing that once again, what I'm taking away with is like, live in the moment that you're in. Live in the year you were in, because it's not, it's going to change. Well, I mean, your life's gonna change. When are you getting married?

In about a month. In about a month? Whoa, so when's the big bachelor party night that we all go to at the- Well, it's gonna be here, right? It's gonna be here at the platinum lady. Coming to this stage, ginger. You gonna have a bachelor party? I don party? I'm not planning on one.

Bad best friend of yours is still your best friend from back home. He's coming in. He's fine. He's coming in from Australia. He'll be staying with me, but I don't know. Maybe we'll go to it. Oh, he's Australian? He's American.

He moved to Australia. Oh, I see. The priced out of Living in America. So will it be a destination wedding? It's a it's right at the coast It's it's not too far. It's drivable. You're in the tassership in the in your inbox No, I wasn't I'm really I'm wedding is freak me out. I mean, I mean just it doesn't it must scare you a little the idea I was especially a guy like you, and the chick's must still throw the gun at me. It doesn't scare me. In fact, I'm like, I'm excited about it.

I'm very... Yeah, I could tell you are. I am. It's, I was listening to, you mentioned Dana Carvey. I was listening to his podcast with Spade and our mutual friend Sarah Silverman was on. Yeah. And she's talking about being in a place in her life

where she absolutely is comfortable in her relationship and she happens to be dating whatever they're doing, living with this person, sharing her life with this person who we both might know, but I know him really well. And she's like, I'm just comfortable. And that's the way I feel. I'm just a bit comfortable.

There's worse things. No, no, no, it's not comfortable. It's not great. Yes, it's not that. I think we're born in a state of being uncomfortable. It's hard to get out that opening. Life is a constant struggle to retard the progression of being uncomfortable. Certainly, physically, you have to take care of yourself a lot more. I mean, John, I've been with you at times, 10 years ago or so, when we both were just drinking all night long, like now we're drinking in a circumspect way.

Yes, for sure. Right, that is, okay, but that is radical shift. Well, it's a concession to reality. Yes. It's a concession. I go to the gym. I never went to thecession. I feel like I go to the gym. I never went to the gym. Really?

You never went to the gym. I mean, when I was in high school, I did, because I was an athlete, but like, that was like, I'm in good shape. I'm fine. I'll work, I'll play sports. Like, now I'm like, I go to the gym because it makes me feel good.

Yeah. I'm not going to the gym to like turn into some Marvel person. I'm like, go to the gym because it actually makes me feel good the same way I go to therapy. Right, you're not feeling good. It's just a good therapy. You don't do any,

you've never been a spandex character, have you? No, I have not. Not on purpose, I would consider it. It's really been offered to me. Really? I would think you would be a perfect candidate. They had other guys to fill the suit. To be, what superpower would make

that you're just doing they see that you would you know the problem with you to smart to the movie and you would be like I think there's not be able to keep a straight face if you if your superpower was like you know I'm a reaction could not down the bend steel tall buildings in a single bound I couldn't knock down that. Ben Steele. Tall buildings in a single bound. I don't know. I think that there's been a lot of advances in the superhero genre.

I think that they're finding great ways to tell that story at those stories. And I think I was watching Tyka Whiteiti talk. Do you know Tyka, have you ever met Tyka? He's been on your show. Tyka Whiteiti, he did Georgia Rabbit. That was great. Yes, great. That is about as far away he did, Dr. Rabbit. That was great.

Yes, great. That is about as far away from his band-ings, movies, I can imagine. But he also direct Hitler into a... He also directs Thor. The last couple Thor's. And so he has a very interesting take on it. And he's like, you know, it's like,

super-your stories are just stories. And there's stories with this mythical character in the middle of them, the mythical character that all the powers in the world and all of these amazing things can't die. And it's like, it's kind of like religion, isn't it? He goes maybe in 150 years, Iron Man is gonna be somebody that they write books about

and they're gonna pray to the thing of Iron Man in the thirtth until all the time. So here we are. I mean, did you ever see change of habit, the Elvis movie? Okay, you... Is it about nuns? Yes.

Okay. I had a feeling. You know what? Okay, I'm sorry. I mean, it's a dream of hell. This is a treat. Oh, no, because you're like, what year are you were born? 71.

Okay, this is before you were born. 19, 60. For sure. Elvis was not a movie star when I was born. Right. He died of it. He died of it. star when I was born. Right. He died of a six. Right. 77.

Yes. Right. Okay. So this is 1969. So he's been, you know, he emerged in 56. That's when he was, that's the year I was born. Okay. Like, same month.

I was born. Heartbreak hotel. Okay. Then he went into the army in 60. So that's like, he had a very brief period where he was like super long. And then shut it down for, it's like Ted Williams. He gets out, well, no, but he gets out of the service. And for the whole next decade, the colonel puts him in these stupid movies.

He did like 29 or less. Clambake, clam, bake, fun and acupuncturist. You know, he called them travelogues. They were, but they made- Put Elvis in a different place and make, plan, make, fun and echo book. You know, he called them travelogues, they were, but they made- Put Elvis in a different place and make, it was like James Bond, it's about the, it was- It was a hardly James Bond,

but I mean it's in a different, right. So in 1969 Elvis finally put this, what down or something happened, and he gets out of the movie contract, and this is the last movie, and he goes, this is when he went back to performing and actually did great. That's the, to me, the greatest period of his recording

is suspicious minds. This night. 68 was the comeback, right? 68 is the comeback, right? It's when he was like, oh, I'm gonna put on a... The leather suit. Suitigate, exactly. And I'm gonna do this is what I should do.

I shouldn't be doing clam bake. What the fuck was I thinking? I must be... And then he killed Vegas for like five years, right? Yeah, because he and toured until he dropped dead touring. But so in 1969, it's the new Elvis, it's a new world, you know, this is the hippie generation. You're 13.

I'm 13. Yes, this movie was very influential. I was like, that's not what I'm going to do in show business. Because, okay, so Elvis wants to like change his image. And he does the comeback special, and that's a big hit. So he gets this script called Change of Habit, where he's a ghetto doctor. This is a giant departure for...

Okay. ...deak rivers. He'll be singing it the day. Right, right, exactly. So he's got to win the race. What? Yeah, who has to win the race to park you for. Deak Rivers, who'll be singing at the right time. Right, exactly. So he's got to win the race. What? Who has to win the race to get the thing and the right. Exactly. Speed, voting, running, and I run, and I'm no.

That's, yes. Okay, so he's a, he's a ghetto doctor. Intercity doctors, we're in the ghetto. In the ghetto? In the ghetto came from. Same year. Okay. So it could be, I don't know, but yes, the song in the ghetto. Like suddenly Elvis wanted you to know,

oh he cares very much about the people in the ghetto. This fucking Southern man, shall we say. I could see that being Ernest though. It could be, it could be. I can't, it feels like yes, it could be. I don't feel like that was a play. I mean, he was born in Tupelo, Mississippi, and I feel like there's something obviously there,

but I understand this thing. I think it's admirable that he wanted to reach out. This is also the great song he did at the end of the comeback special called, If I Can Dream. Oh my God, that performance too. And for God, the whole thing, you know, where all my brothers walk hand in hand.

And he's killed. That's something Elvis seemed to care about for the first 36 years of his life. Hey, you know what, he got there. If you think he got there exactly, that's what we say to all people who like get woker. He got there. We don't hate you because you're...

There's no timeline. Exactly. Thank you. So, okay, so he's this ghetto doctor. And it turned, but it turned... I was... Let's go bad habits in the habit. No, it's called change of habit. Change of habit.

So Mary Tallah Moore, an intention thing because you see that these two people are at very different places in their career. Elvis wants to change his image from clam banks to ghetto doctor. are at very different places in their career. Elvis wants to change his image from Glambay to Getta Docter. And Mary Tyler Lamore is coming off the Dick Van Dyke show, but it's kind of fizzled. This is right before she gets her show in 1970. So she takes this job opposite Elvis. Elvis.

People want to work. Or maybe she thought this is the greatest thing, but I don't think so. So she's a nun. But there's this program. Now this is really really about, okay. Okay, so this is program where the nuns, like three nuns get to like shed their habit

and go in street clothes and work at the clinic in the ghetto because the church is trying to reach out and so they show up, Elvis doesn't know their nuns and it didn't realize until I watched it again, it's an abortion clinic. And he thinks that they are three uptown girls, because he sees that all the time, who come downtown to get

out the clinic. Get out the clinic. Because they don't want to be seen by their friends and family. And he literally says, okay, well, no, it's not all three of you, is it? Oh, it's not the same guy, is it? Oh, boy. It's just really aligned in the movie. So of course, Elvis and Mary Teller- Tellermore fall in love, but he doesn't

know she's a nun. And then at the end we find out and then she's sitting in the church at the end and Elvis, of course, even though he's a ghetto doctor, he's still saying. Sure, I'm going to come on. So he's singing, you know, this is when the church was trying to be hip with the folks on the folks. So there he is at the church is singing about the Jesus and Jesus and this is, you know, the thing of Jesus and the camera cuts back between her looking at Elvis and this Jesus and Elvis Jesus. And it's like, the movie leaves you like, who could make this decision? I have to pick between Elvis and Jesus.

Why not? Two things can be true. two things can be true. One of them. Two things can be true. And it also, what's the point of that? Was that... She changed her habit. No, that...

That was the beginning of Sister Act One. And then, whoopi Goldberg showed up. And you wouldn't believe it, but they started singing. But have you ever watched that, and Elvis will be like any Elvis movie? Yeah, for sure. Because the Evelace Vegas is like, you know, I mean, to get stoned or a little tipsy and watching Elvis, they, they hold, I won't say they hold up. They're very much artifacts of their time. But he is ridiculously compelling as a performer. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

what about the other one? Uneniable. The early ones where he's, did you watch that thing on HBO, the two part? Of course. Six hour Elvis thing. I was watching everything. I was transfixed by that.

I thought it was just fantastic, because I was so much old stuff that I hadn't seen. You know, and I think for my generation that didn't really have Elvis, when we were talking with Mad Men, like Elvis was still like in the top 10 during the Mad Men era. And so was Frank Sinatra, like the Beatles and all the 60s stuff didn't really hit to like the late 60s.

Really. They were still, I mean, the obviously they had hits, but Elvis was still there and Sinatra was still there. They were still, I mean, the Alvuss, they had hits, but Elvis was still there, and Sinatra was still there. They were still madmen, every year. That version of that. Well, the early, the popular culture. It was still very much in transition to what we think of as the 60s. Well, that show starts in 60. Yeah. Okay. Elvis was definitely, that was his first year out of the army. He 62, he had a big hit with Return to Sender. Address unknown. Address.

You know it. No such number, no such zone. For sure. Right. So, but then when the Beatles took over in 64, that was the British invasion. He was old news. That's why he was making those movies. He had the occasional hit.

He had one of the Hawaiian movies. I think it was 65 or 6, gave the world wise men say. Only fools Russian. Only, yeah. I can't help father. That was a huge hit. That was what he ended his concerts with. That was the closing, the summation of my whole career.

It's this song. I can't help falling in love with you. I mean, there's a reason that song is endured, you know? And it's part, it's, they played in a wide, part of endlessly. His magnetism, that 68 comeback special was really the That was on live national television and I think it got up until like maybe a couple decades ago

It was like still in the top 10 of like most watched no His early movies he did where they were not musicals, like Flaming Star, or Kid D'Ringo Kids. No, there was Kid Creole. Creole. Okay, but he's a, like you said, compelling. He's not a polished actor, but it almost works for him. Well, he was, I mean, he was devastatingly.

Davistatingly. Absolutely. Like, unbelievably good looking. Unbelievably good looking. Unbelievably. And just had this. And by the way, not for nothing, I think that Austin Butler nailed it. I do.

In that Elvis movie. I had lots of problems with the movie, but not with the performance. He was great. He was great. He was the right guy for that. And a lot of guys have played Elvis. I mean, Kurt, I remember seeing Kurt Russell do it.

Like soon after Elvis died, that's how long ago. Like maybe 1979, they did a TV movie. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. It's a, he's a phenomenon. I think he has, there has not been another Elvis. No, maybe make the case for Michael Jackson. People would say that, but Mike, I mean, look,

but he didn't have, he didn't have he didn't have uh... other than the obviously problematic stuff that i'm not later he never he was never never tried to be an actor he was pure pop tell my michael yeah he was pure pop like he was just that was his it that was him yeah elvis had a second gear

he's a right acting yeah yeah michael i think i had dreams of being an actor. I think he wanted to, I mean, that just came along at the time when he started to fall apart as a person. You know, he just was so fragile. He just couldn't, I mean, talk about a candle in the wind. But yeah, he just, yeah. That was, no, no, yeah, that was...

But another undeniable talent. You just can't, you cannot, yeah, you don't know if it's has it. Well, and you don't know if it could have the kind of longevity, but, you know, Paul McCartney is a pretty amazing talent and has a longevity that's pretty sparkling as well. That was another fascinating thing to watch

was that documentary that get out, get out, get back. No, that get back was also when you look at what they were doing in those sessions and how fast they were working and how amazing what they did then became. And then realize that they're all 26, 27 years old and Harrison's 24, and just the emotional intelligence that they're dealing with and the stuff that they're all 26, 27 years old and Harrison's 24 and just the emotional

intelligence that they're dealing with and the stuff that they're dealing with in real time and also just Ringo, how he's like the rock. He's just the steadiest guy. Like, okay, what are we doing? No, this, okay, I got it, I got it, never miss a beat, never miss a thing, puts his fur coat on, piece out, I got to go shoot a movie. I thought Peter Jackson was very smart to put the calendar as a framing device because you see, okay, they walk into this studio right after New Year's,

it's January 2nd or 3rd. And by the way, Did you hear that speech of the Martin Luther King gave? What? Oh, that was happening too. Right, you're right. Yeah. It seems like a big deal.

Yeah, I forgot that. Okay, so we see they're walking into the studio. Hi, Happy New Year. And by the end of the month, we need a whole new album. And so they have nothing. Really, they're just kind of fun-faring and they have all these side disputes that are happening and George walks out for a minute. By the way, they throw them under the bus immediately.

I love that. It shows that London and McCartney, it was always about letting them McCartney in that group. They were never really fighting. And everybody else was a little bit a third wheel. Also, by the way, also like, he's playing songs and some of his songs on that record are the most beautiful songs. And then he the way, also like, he's playing songs

and some of his songs on that record are the most beautiful songs. And then he's like, the things he had in his pocket become all things must pass. Like George, yeah. One of the greatest albums of all time. Yeah, but that's had these in my back pocket. Right.

But the reason why he had so many songs in his back pocket is because he didn't want. Right. So he kind of had. They were octopus's garden, the Giveringo one, the Georgeiverage two, and then they'd have the rest. I think George may have had a hand in Octopus's Garden also.

I mean, it likes to be under the sea. Who does? There's a cover of Ringo's Big Hit. It don't come easy. Don't come easy. That George cut first because he wrote it. I think so, yeah. Oh, there's a lot of D.N.

The George Hairs and D.N. Well, in the original, there's the chanting, there's chanting, I think so, yeah. Oh, there's a lot of DNA that George Harrison DNA in that song. Well, in the original, there's the chanting, they're chanting, Harry Christian in the background. There's a dead giveaway. There's a little tambourine in this one, should we? Yes, that's a very brilliant comedian mind pointed out. The worst lyric in show business ever is Bangladesh,

Bangladesh, it sure looks like a mess. Oh, no. But he meant well. He did mean well. No, you should not do spandex now that I'm thinking like. You're so, I think that's a blessing in disguise. You should be like a, you know, there's no good like American James Bond.

I mean, like, there's a lot, it's become a crowded space at this point. I think what I've been able to do is- Not a James Bondian type. No. I've been able to carve out some fun things to do, most recently with Fletch, that I'm able to like- Okay, I'll just kind of reboot this and put a little spin on it. There's a couple more books left to do.

Let's get my favorite movie of yours is, they root. It's a great film, nobody saw it. It's a really, that is a great movie. It's a great movie. You know who wrote it? And you're perfect. I mean, you're so good in that. That's what you should play.

I would do that for the rest of my life. I fucking make three days of the condor for the rest of my life. I think it's very, that movie is very free days of the Condor-ish. Tony Gilroy wrote that movie. Tony Gilroy. And that movie, that movie sat on a shelf. For 15 years.

Tony Gilroy who wrote the first born identity and wrote Sireana. Sireana and wrote Michael Clayton. Michael Clayton. And directed. I'm sure other, Tony Gilroy's a, he's kind and wrote Michael Clayton. Michael Clayton. And directed. I'm sure other, Tony Gilroy's a man. He's kind of like the Robert Town of this genre. What a, that makes a lot of sense.

It's a great film. Thank you. Well, all right. So let's get you in Tony Kilroy. Fuck, when is he canceled? When is he canceled? What did he do? No, I like doing.

He started writing Star Wars movies. Spandex. Rogue one. I mean, a reroute it, I think he started writing Star Wars movies Spandex, Rogue One. I mean a rerouted I guess maybe Star Wars isn't spandex, but it's honorary spandex Shit is it 730 it is god I have to I'd be a dinner at eight. I'm gonna all right I have to do the plug. Yes, you did the plug Did I do the plug you do plug hour ago. I could sit here all night with you. Buddy, I wish we could do this more. Well, we can. We're free agents. You have my number and I live right down the street.

You do? Well, a long way down the street. It's a long street sunset. Alright. Climb through Render. Don't hear me. Come here. What a place. How much fun.

What a pleasure. Thank you.