Club Random with Bill Maher - Margaret Cho | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: November 26, 2023

The nice man Margaret met at a dungeon, Bill plays a game called Who Was in My Body, how Margaret grew up in a San Francisco bookstore, Bill learns what a “collective” entails, changing gender in children, the process for creating stand-up comedy, why Margaret’s parents were anti-voting, why Margaret’s old friends have died, Bill’s mixed audience, the actor who asked Margaret if it was okay to “play Asian,” and the firing of Shane Gillis from HBO. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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on the same points bet app. The platform that gives you everything you need. You know what to do. Bet on it. Point Spets Sportsbook and Casino. She reached out. I played Asian mind and a film and I wanted to know if it was. Asian notary public. The human body. It's like a defense and foot boy got to take with the defense of the area and when my body would give me 30 drinks a

week, I took it. Hey. Hi. Oh, hello. That's Lucia. What? That's Lucia. Yes. I mean, I accept your, accept your word on that. Oh, animal. She's really sweet. I mean, you're lucky, I'm a,

look, see, you know who the animal's friend is. Lifetime Peter Board member. Oh. Since the 90s. Amazing. Yeah, I remember when Peter was just like, you know, we'd have the annual gala to raise money and it was like, you know, eight people, you know,

and like the couple of James Cromwell was always like the stalwart who was there at the beginning, Pam Anderson. Yeah. But it was now, it's like the Oscars. Right. You know, I mean, it's a real show with lots of star power because, you know, who doesn't like animals? Well, the big one that I remember was the one

where Paul McCartney was there. Paul McCartney, of course. I'm sure the biggest funder. Yeah. I try to do my part, but I can't compete on that level. So what is this dog's name? This is Lucia Catarina. Now, why did you name it that?

Well, it's Lucia is light. She's the light of my life. Really? Catarina said, I can see why you like her. She's adorable. She's adorable. Yeah.

She really wants to say, how do you? I can see. Well, the dog can, you want to be on my lab? Yeah. Okay. She's like, really trying to get to you. I see. Well, the dog can, you want it be on my lap? I don't know. Okay. She's like really trying to get to you. I see, now this looks like an SNM kind of a thing. It's very, it's very badass. It's very, it's barbed wire.

She's very cool. All right, no, no, not on the first date, I don't do any, no, no tongue, right? I can see. They always want to get that tongue in there, you know? And they're very sneaky about doing it, no, no tongue, right? I can see. They always want to get that tongue in there, you know? And they're very sneaky about doing it. They're like, they're like, I'll leave with the jab, you know? You don't see it coming in the next thing,

you know, the tongue is in your mouth. Oh, no. I know people who like kiss their dogs, like, you know, not, not because they're not in a perfect way. No, nothing weird. They just, they just fucking French do it, but they do. And that's it. I mean, I love animals, but that's a bridge too far.

It's a little bit much. It's much, but I... It doesn't seem to hurt them though. She's very affectionate. I can say, does this goes on all day like this? See, that would show. She'll come down and ask me. She'll come down, right.

That she's never gonna like take a shit on me, right? No, no, no, no. Okay, because I'm totally not into that. I mean, forget about the kissing. I mean, the copper of logic or whatever. Copper. It was a copper filial. Copper filial, copper fage is when you want to eat it.

When you want to eat it. I don't mess with the naughty place. And no anal? Well, that's what I'm saying. Ever? That's the naughty place. Is it naughty? There are reasons.

We shouldn't talk about it. But I know you're a sexual, what do you call it? I'm the, an omnivore. Oh, yeah, omnivore. Yeah, I mean, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've availed yourself of the entire banquet. Adventure, right? Adventure.

I mean, men, women, farm animals. Not animals, but I definitely think anal sexes are really, it's a new frontier. I don't think it's new. I think the Romans were doing it quite a bit. I mean, I think they did it. Look, people will eat anything and fuck anything. That is the bottom line on people.

And anything with a hole, they'll go for it. It doesn't even have to be human. It doesn't have to be alive. Men will stick their dick. I mean, it's odd because the dick for us is like such a delicate part of the body. You'd think you wouldn't put it in a vacuum cleaner. No matter how good you thought that could feel, and yet every year there are many stories

of men who have accidents and lose their penis sometimes through sticking it in appliances of, I mean, it just blows my mind, but, you know, hey, different strokes, huh? So what's the weirdest thing you ever did? Like what would you tell you of all these experiences? Not ever, well, not ever enjoyed, but did. There was a guy that liked to light my leg on fire. So he would put antibacterial gel on my leg and then he would light it.

And then it would just burn off of my skin. It was very, it was like very magician, kind of like, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, this is what sounds exactly like magician. It's like that kind of feeling, but it was, I think it was related to BDSM, like it was related to something- What's that, bondage? Bondage and discipline.

Bondage domination, submission. Submission. Massacism, that kind of thing. Right. But it couldn't find a way to be turned on by it. But you let it happen. I let it happen because it was- A few times.

Yeah, because I was like, oh this- Because other than that, he was a great guy. Every thing deserves a good try. Can I ask what you liked about this guy? Like, what was the compensating factor that made you go, okay, he wants to light my leg on fire. But boy, you get him on the Donboss region and he is good. I mean, I liked him.

He was handsome. He was a nice man. Handsome. He's shallow, hussy. Yes, for sure. He was really interested in BDSM, which I am as well. So we met. Did you meet through that community?

Yeah, we met at a dungeon. At a dungeon. And he sparked up a a dungeon. And sparked up a nice conversation and we sparked up a nice relationship. And then he was very into it. But he didn't have actual sex ever. So that was the thing that turned me off. Like he never wanted to put penis in vagina. He only wanted to light my leg on fire.

He wanted to do, do like he was very good with ropes so he's really good at like putting me in different positions in the air, which I think is really great. But I just didn't like the performative aspect of it. But what how did he get off? I mean, so when the leg caught on fire, did the dick get hard? Was that it? I don't need when the leg caught on fire, did the dick get hard? Was that it? I'm presuming. So I don't need, you presuming, weren't you there?

Yeah, but I was not able to like touch it or even it couldn't see. But you couldn't see. I mean, I was kind of far out of blindfold on. You had a blindfold on. Oh, of course. Sounds like this guy was very ashamed of his cock. He didn't want you to see it.

Wouldn't he? But also maybe also like he guy was very ashamed of his cock. You know, you know, he didn't want you to see it. Wouldn't he? But also, maybe also like he just was sexual in a different way outside of what we think of as like penis for gynecics. Yeah, he's a fucking weirdo. Yeah, people are weird sometimes. Well, in your life, a lot, it seems like. It's weird. Let take me back to the dungeon though.

You said you met a dungeon. Is that a specific type of establishment that exists in this world? Yes. And it's okay. And like, if I like went on a yelp, you can find. You can't really find. There's professional spaces that house. They're permanent places or like the Halloween store. No, they're actually permanent places that are sometimes they're often like used for photo shoots or people will book them or professional songs.

And it looks like a dungeon. It looks like kind of like this. Like a little bit. Yeah. You know, thank you. This is not that dissimilar from. I love that. Yeah.

Well, maybe I could have a double as a dungeon some night. You could. You could use it as a... Yeah, but it looks more medieval, like a torture chamber. Yeah. Like if you had crossed the King of England in 1538,

this is where you would be sent. Right, but it's also kind of got a stoner vibe, so it's a little medieval times. Like did it have the manacles on the walls? Yes, really. Yeah, sometimes. Because that's when you ever picture a guy in a dungeon very often in a cartoon in the New Yorker,

they're always manacled against the wall. Yes. And then they have something very, very funny to say that it's inappropriate for someone in a dungeon. But I'm sure there were people who really did rot away in dungeons. I mean, oh my God. The people, the people that wrote, you know, in the whatever,

I mean, torture still exists today. But it's like the middle ages vision of the dungeon is kind of the aesthetic that all these dungeons are sort of like, I think placed in still. You know, it also looks a little bit like a round table pizza. I once went to a goth something, oh my God, this is, I always say this, but my memoir will be called, Who Was in My Party? Because the things I did, not just what I was young, that's what really got us

out. It's like, I mean, I was probably 42 when this happened, but I was dating a girl who was like 22 and she was a, a goth, this was like the 90s, you know, it was like a thing. Yeah. I remember she had a coffin. By the way, I was still a great friend of her. She's a wonderful human being, lover. She, I remember she had a coffin purse. Yeah.

The purse. Yeah. Well, okay. At the time, it was sexy, I guess. And she took me to, I think this is her first date. And I remember there was, it was Goth, and people would look kind of that look. You've, you've trudged sort of onto it.

Absolutely. Okay, so, and at the, there was a stage of some sort, I remember being in the back of a room, and there was a guy, and he was split out like this on a wheel. wheel and you know, they would spin around and they would puncture his body and blood would come out. Yes. And they would collect it and then others would come and drink it. I mean, this is like when age was still kind of, you know, I mean, it's still not something I want to get,

but it certainly we've certainly made great progress with it, but we had not made that kind of, you know, I mean, it's still not something I want to get, but we've certainly made great progress with it, but we had not made that kind of progress. This was probably 1998. That's incredible. That's quite hard. That's hardcore for like playing like that, like, blood play in, you know, public space. That's a big deal. That's commitment to your kink, right?

Yeah. I mean, it's adrenaline to like like people get off on the pain aspect of it, but it's also the exhibition aspect of it. It's also like this event, this performative thing. So I can see why that would be a turn on. But what do you think led you to, I mean, like of all the hobbies, I mean, you know, you could have played with toy trains. I mean, it's just a married of things on this earth that you could get into. And you, why this? Because the bad childhood stuff.

No, I grew up in a gay bookstore. And so there was so much of this already happening. In the bookstore. Yeah, my parents owned a gay bookstore. No, my parents owned a gay bookstore. So I was in the bookstore. Yeah, my parents owned a gay bookstore. My parents owned a gay bookstore. So I was in the bookstore. Did they live above the bookstore? No, but we were in the bookstore all day and all night.

Like, you know, pretty much became our house in a way. Like we had a place that we didn't live behind it or above it, but we live on a day. I think you should say my family lived above the bookstore. Even though it's not true, we live in an age where nobody cares what the truth is anymore. And you could totally embellish. It's just better. Okay, so you're above the bookstore and you had to work 12 hours a day, really?

Well, my parents worked 12 hours a day, but I would come in. What's the terrain? It's called a light work week. Yes. And I would come in and be, that would be our babysitter. So there was a lot of drag queens there. There were a lot of people who were getting full body tattoo suits in the late 70s and

the 80s. And there was a lot of talk of like leather BDSM and it was totally normalized. So I just became curious. And then when I was a teenager, I worked at a lesbian SNM collective. How old? But 17, 16, 17. And a lesbian, BDSM collective,

where they were making sex toys out of leather. Collective, that's vague term to me. What is that? It's kind of like a club. It's kind of like, it was a store term to me. What is that? It's kind of like a club. It's kind of like, well, it's a store. A store. And a club and a warehouse, but also a public space, but also a bookstore and also a place for information

and a piercing salon. Put in the dungeon, you won't have to go anywhere. Everything. So. So that's a collective, everything in one, okay. Everything in one. So you lived there? I worked there. You worked there? Oh, they hire one. So you lived there? I worked there. You worked there?

Oh, they hired people. They hired people and then I would work. So it's not like a kaboot, it's not socialism. It's a higher, yeah. You hire people, I worked there and then I was there. What was your job? I was manning their sex store, their sex toy store. And I was also the rep to go to sex parties

with all of the toys. So then I would go, when I was a little bit older, I would go to the sex parties and then I would sell everything that we had, like whips and all the stuff. Second parties, they also had parties. Mm-hmm. And what about the HR department?

How does that work at the collective? I want to know. I'm sure there is one. I don't remember. That's well, I mean, if your whole thing is sex and being weird, that's kind of tough. I just wouldn't end be the person who had to handle those complaints at the HR department. Well, you did come here to the dungeon. It was always very, there was always so much emphasis on consent and so much emphasis on, we're only doing things that we want to do.

And therefore, when you have that level of consent and understanding and negotiation, you can pretty much do everything. Like, there was a wild stuff going on, lots of big group sex scenes, lots of fisting, lots of anal things in the naughty places, like the naughty places, lots of naughty naughty places. But this is all lesbians. It was pretty much everybody,

but the lesbian ethos was, it was like the lesbian's reign. But they were men there. And trans. Trans women, trans men. Trans men. In the earliest... For people born as a woman. Who were transitioning into male...

Well, I have a penis that they were not born with. Well, they oftentimes take testosterone. Sometimes... You don't grow a penis that they were not born with. Well, they oftentimes take testosterone. Sometimes you don't grow a penis. Well, you grow like a... I mean, you do if you're around some of the attractive. No, but you know what I mean. But you grow... You have to actually, I mean, they actually cut it out of there.

You know, they cut the flesh out of the thigh. Yes, there's different surgical things. There's different hormonal things, but... And you've seen that. Yeah, some there's different surgical things, there's different hormonal things, but you've seen that. Yeah, but you also... How do they look? We look good. Really? We look good. Yeah. And they're full length? They're all different. Everybody's different. Well, I mean, all different. If you're going to get one, yeah, it's different. You're gonna make one, you might as well. It's like, who purposely makes this more dick? No, but it's like, you could also wear a strap, which I think is a preference for a lot of people

to wear a strap on. Oh, I see. If you don't have a dick. Yeah, or you wear one that is just your everyday. Every day. So that you have a- You wear it even when you're not trying to make no man's?

Because you have, because in order to really achieve that feeling of your agenda, you're going to wear something. I mean, I think that's a really important part of understanding who you are or feeling like you're really There. I'm not a trans man. So I don't know. Right. And of course, you know, this this issue this subject is in the news constantly because the younger generation feels it's sort of like the civil rights issue of their time. You know, I I feel like I have a centrist view on it. Certainly the liberal part of me I feel like I have a centrist view on it.

Certainly the liberal part of me fully acknowledges that the range of what goes on in the human mind with sexuality is broad. That doesn't mean that the vast majority are still heterosexual, male and female. But for whatever percentage that is, that's outside of that. Let's say the collectively it's 10. I know it could be more, everybody could be on the spectrum. I don't think that's true.

I never felt very spectrumy myself. I know a lot of people will feel the same way. But within that category of people who are not just heterosexual, it's just no wonder they need 56 categories on Facebook. It's just so many variations of what, you know, and with the internet now, of course, you know, you can find people who you could type in any weird, I need a lesbian to pee on me while I play with toy trains, and the three hundred people will be like, oh, great, what kind of train?

Yeah, there's a lot of that. That's actually very common. What? I think it's their feet, yeah. Fuck me up, come on. I think it's really common playing with toy trains while somebody pees on you. Yeah, I think so. I think I would that I know I think I could find that. I'm saying you good, but I didn't there's definitely somebody doing that.

But they're ex that's my point. There's there's probably 3000 people doing it. And in the old days, you would never have known that there were other 3000 people in the world. But with the internet days, you would never have known that there were other 3,000 people in the world, but with the internet. Now you know. You can be like, I'm a cat and I shit in a box and there'll be 10,000, what kind of box, you know, I mean. Yeah.

It's nice. It's just, it's absolutely. I love it. And then there's a part of this, which is a little crazy and with children, sometimes too early. America is an outlier here now. I mean, it's a little embarrassing for the people who are all gung ho on switching up at early ages because the liberal countries in Europe that we always look to for their liberal

guidance, they pulled back on this. We're kind of alone out there with like, you know, sure, kind of stick off, what the heck? What can go wrong? I don't think people do that though. No, of course they don't, I'm being facetious, but America does go full steam on gender switching for children who have not reached puberty.

And at a younger age, that puberty blockers and so forth, that, again, Sweden, Denmark, the UK, places that were sort of experimenting with this, they have pulled back on this. They've said, you know, we may be doing more damage than good. That is certainly something that is at least worth debating. One problem with that other side of this is they just don't want to talk about it. It's just like, if you don't agree with me, 1 million percent from the get-go, you're a horrible bigot, and it's coming from hate, and it's not coming from hate.

It's science, and we should be able to debate it, especially since it's so new, and it involves children. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Good to see you. I got, got, got it. Got it. Feel better, I got that off my chest. Good, I'm glad.

No, and it's true. It has the added virtue of being true. But no, I mean, look, maybe my life would have been more interesting if I was not so, you know, regimented in the things that I like to do. But like, I never stop liking the thing. I've never got married. Well, yeah. You know what, I mean, if it's like...

Yeah, that's right. You never got married. No. You never, I mean, but you... Because I like... You like being single. You like being alone. I like being alone, and I like other things that go with being single,

as opposed to being married. It's always a choice that you make. Right. Right. Right. I mean, you, and when you're very often, especially when I was younger, when I was in one of the versions of my life, which was either with Steady Girlfriend or Single, you'd complain about the parts of the other life you don't have.

Yeah. You're with a Steady Girlfriend, it's great, but you're like, oh boy, I wish I could get laid on the road, and I wish I could go to a strip club, but I, you know, all this stuff. Remember when we went to the strip club in Hawaii? You were in a good time.

Such a good time. We had a party bus and everything. We had a party bus, and we went to a strip club in Honolulu. That is such a great memory, so bad. It was really lovely. Yes, and. Do you still go every new year? You know,

I stopped this this last year, it was the last year. It became too, it's funny when I first book that, first wanted to do who I, no one would book it. No one I had to like find a promoter of the brick bar to lean you, remember, Rick. Great guy. I love him. I'll miss him every year and a great promoter. And he was the only one who said, I will take a chance on this. But to that, nobody worked Hawaii. It was considered a dead territory.

And then, we did it enough years people saw, oh, it's not so dead. And now everybody does it. So it's hard to book a comic, because they're all working on their own there. So it was a victim of its own success, but 12 wonderful years with so many great comics. I mean, I wish it would go on just for the sake of,

to the opportunity to like spend four days with somebody like you who I always liked, but it's like, I'm never gonna, look, you're so busy. You know, you have your life, you're my life. What are we gonna see each other? Probably when we work. That's how we all are. I've said that there's so many comics we were,

I said, I love you, how we mendel. I wish I could, but we're not going to. I'm gonna get you. You got your life, I got my life, and you got your close friends, and I got mine. But when we work, we get to do it. That's right. You know, so.

And you do work like every day of the year, don't you? Pretty much. I don't know who I am without working. You know? I'm sure you know that feeling. What a thing to say though. I don't think that's true. I think you know who you are without working.

Come on, if you couldn't do stand up, you'd wither. Well, if I didn't do stand up, I would do other thing. Like, I'm always doing some putter, I'm like a putterer and like a busy body and doing all sorts of things. Always trying to work and trying to see because I think so much of my identity is wrapped in from doing stand up comedy, but not just that.

It's like when you're a stand up comic, you're also always working in your mind, in your heart, you're always like freaking out about something, thinking about something. So, it's like you don't ever stop being on the job. Well, that's on me. I mean, that's, maybe you should try to let that go. Yeah.

Because that's, that seems imprisoning. I mean, I would not say I'm freaking out. I would not say, and what I would say is, my antenna are always up for something that would be good in stand-up. Right. And, you know, in the old days, I would carry a little pen like this big

and a little piece of paper and try to, I mean, I have a collection of cocktail napkins. I'm sure this deep, because we all, you know, some people purposely write comics. I never like purposely wrote. My method was always like, no, I'll get high. I'll talk to funny people. Funny things will come up. And if I think it's something good,

I'll remember it, I'll write it down. I mean, many things I wish I had written down and they wound up on the floor, and there were probably some good bits there, but I don't find that to be a burden, except for the, oh boy, I don't want to forget that part. I used to also have a little tape recorder. Oh, yeah, that's good. Remember when we all had little tape recorders when we started out as comics?

Yeah. Tape ourselves. You know who did that was Mitch Hedberg. He always had a little of these tiny cassettes. They were like so small. And we carried it everywhere. I remember in New York, I had, when I was doing an hour set somewhere like Caroline's,

you know, this is like the 80s, but I was, you know, new as a headliner, but you do an hour. And the tape, those little tapes only lasted a half hour. Yeah. So I had to have one tape recorder in each pocket. Oh. And I had to remember at the half hour mark to turn off the one or else it would beep. Oh wow. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. That's so funny.

I mean, I'm like you in the sense I'm a worker. Yeah. And I like it. I love tinkering with the act. You know, there's no feeling as good as like, oh, you know, I just moved that joke two jokes earlier. And the whole thing works 10 times better. What it make sense?

It just falls together right. You're always like feeding the audience some information and then you have to have them absorb this piece of information before this next piece of information is going to work. And it's those little things that can make a bit or a honk that's good, great. You know, just moving that around

and how it works on the human mind. And it's tinkering. It's building a ship inside of a bottle. It is getting peed on while playing with a toy train. Like it's that all of the pieces have to work. I know, but afterwards, I don't smell like pee, Margaret. That's good. Have you we get peed on? Oh, you have got to be fucking kidding me.

Peed on? Oh, no. No. No. You're a peon, anybody? No. What? What am I, Arkelly?

And pee on somebody. Why would that bring pleasure to me? I don't really like it either, but people really like it. I don't really like it. People, what people, weirdos. Lots of people like it, yeah. Yes, they do. Lots of really like it either, but people really like it. I don't really like it. People, what people, weirdos. Lots of people like it, yeah. Yes, they do. Lots of people like it.

There must be something to it. There's even, I can tell you this, in stroke books, you know, penthouse stuff like that. I hear from a friend. They sometimes have had, because I've seen it. I mean, I heard it from the friend. I mean, it's normally just a good stroke book. Okay, it's me.

A good stroke book for a man, hot chicks, looking like if somebody doesn't fuck me in the next two minutes, I'm gonna do it to myself with my pointy shoe. I mean, that look in their eye. I mean, we're masturbators, you know? That's what we want to see. And sometimes they had a girl pee. So there must be enough of a market.

So, and I was like, why did you have to show that one? This is not helping my boner, that I'm watching this girl pee. I mean, it's pee. Yeah. But is it, is it like you can flate it? I think the people can flate it or with, compare it to squirt, is squirt pee? Now that's an interesting subject.

We'll be right back. No. Is squirt pee? I, you know what? I was much more happy about my squirt ratio before I found out that there might be pee at it. I think there's pee in it. Yeah.

I'm slowly coming to that realization and that's, yeah. That's not the best news I've ever had. Because I don't just, I just don't think, I don't want pee on me. Yeah. I mean, you know, pee, of course, that's a little emotional more than scientific, because pee, of course, is supposed to be sterile. I mean, the difference between pissed and shit,

kids is, you know, P is supposed to be able to eat sterile, no germs, shit, all germ. Yeah. Yeah. Which is another reason why I don't fuck on the naughty place. Mm-hmm. Because that's, you know, that's where the,

it's the sewer of the body. It's the cola, which is what empties out into the naughty place. Right. So the sewer, I don't want to play in the sewer. Okay. And I make me a weirdo? No. And it's certainly not anti-gay. It's just my preference. We all get to, you get to have your preference. Yeah. The toy drains. I get to have mine. Some gay people don't have anal sex. What happened? Some gay people don't have anal sex. I'm sure that's true. Of course, that itself is a variation. Yeah. What do they have? Like, scissorsing and...

Yes, scissorsing sometimes. Bibrators, strap-ons. Fire. Fire, fire, fingers. Burning your date. Fingers are very important. Did you say, I'm sorry, I don't burn on the first one. Ha-ha-ha.

What is, if kissing is first base, is second base, and Pussy his third base, what is Bernie going to steal? What is Bernie the leg? We're not sure what game that is. Yeah, that's 43 men's squamish, I think. Club random is brought to you by The Stash Monkey. Nothing says family fun like keeping your secrets under lock and key. We get it kids and pets have a habit of turning your house into a treasure hunt for all

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You know. Probably 12 years? 12 years? Yeah. Years? Married for 12 years. Oh. Yeah.

Well, that's serious. Yeah. Marriages serious. It's serious. I mean, that's when it's really getting serious. But I don't think I would be married again. I just don't like living with other people. Don't you like living alone?

I love living alone. Yes, I do. Look who you're talking to. It feels so good. Oh, yeah. It feels so good with other people. Don't you like living alone? I love living alone. Yes, I do. I'm the look of you talking to you. It feels so good. Oh, yeah. It feels so good. And it doesn't mean you're lonely. No.

And it doesn't mean, you know, you don't have a company sometimes. Right. But, you know, but to be always on top of each other, I know there's no way to undo this, especially if you have kids and you want kids. You can't, you know, tell the kids, oh, mommy and daddy don't want to get sick of each other. So, you know, no, the kids, I mean, I was lucky. I had a stable home. I know you had a rough childhood. That's so much in life, you know, I mean, it's my, I have the deepest admiration for people who overcame that. Because I did not have to. I was lucky with parents and stability. I had to completely leave it to be for upbringing.

There was no controversies or drugs or racism because it was an all white town in the 1960s. It was just like there was no issues. Not even any divorce. You know, there weren't broken homes. Everybody had mommy and daddy. I mean, I'm telling you, it was like I feel like I came from the land that time for God. It just seems like, were we ever that idyllic? And you know, you're younger than me, so you didn't have that.

No, and I don't know. I mean, was it like this, there was dysfunction, but it was just invisible, maybe. Absolutely. Oh, there was all those horrible it was just invisible, maybe. Absolutely. Oh, there was all those horrible things. I mean, racism. I mean, it was an all-white town. You just didn't see it.

Everybody just said, you know, I mean, my parents were liberal. My, to their great credit, at a time when parents either didn't bring this up to the kids at all, because it wasn't an issue. Because, you know, civil rights was a political thing and they weren't political and there's no black people in this town. So they didn't either didn't talk about it with their kids

or they told them the wrong thing. Right. America was so racist in the 60s. My parents took the opposite approach and they made sure at a very young age we understood when Kennedy sent troops into the south in 63 I was seven Mm-hmm. You know my father explained that to me. That's a pretty young age to have your father

Tell you why that was a good thing and why Kennedy was his hero. Yeah, you know, so You know, so, you know, it's a point. Things have changed. Do you remember what you felt like when Kennedy was shot? I remember the day. I can still see my mother's look as she walked across the lawn. We were led out of school early. So we thought it was a good thing, you know, at a school. But I didn't quite understand it until I remember...

I often, I think, walked home. I remember that day did not because a car dropped me up, because I remember being in a car, but I do remember it was a car I was not that familiar. And as it pulled up to the house, my mother came out of the front door and walked across the lawn to greet me at the car. And she just had a look on her face that I'd never seen. You know, a serious downcast, this is the end of the world kind of look. So that's when I knew

something was up. Yeah, yeah. And then I, we had to write a little essay about it at seven. Oh, what did you write? Oh, my father kept it. He adored it. I mean, it was something, you know, it was seven. Like, I remember the last line with something like and John, John wrote a Dunkier. Not a Dunkier, but he had, was there, oh, a horse. There was like a horse that, I don't know.

I mean, it was not the kind of fun to tree that you would expect for me later in life, but it was heartfelt, and I'm sure it reflected his view that, you know, this was a horrible thing, and we had lost a great man. And, but that's largely the reason he liked him with civil rights. My parents were classic old school liberal Democrats. That's beautiful.

Irish and Jewish. Yeah. That's really beautiful. I had an aunt and grace who was, you know, on the Irish side and voted Republican and drove my father fucking nuts. And she was living on money from democratic coffers, because you know, back in that day, the 30s of 40s, the Irish ran everything

in the Democratic party and her husband was some Paul or somebody and she was living on Democratic pension money and voting for Nixon. It was so, but yeah, I was lucky. Where's your family situation now? They've never voted. They've never, they don't ever feel like America is their country. They still don't.

They've been here since 1963. Wow. And they've never participated in the politics. So, they're very political in Korea, but they've never, ever wanted to vote, and they've never wanted to participate, which is, I guess it's understandable, you know, that's kind of their position on it, but they've never felt like welcomed by America in that way. So I think it's sad actually. It is. They never wanted to be a part of it. Yeah, we're all sensitive. I mean, I'm sure they faced things that they should not have had to face.

Well, yeah. And you know, people even You know, people even slights, you know, and we call them slights because they're slight, can go deep as far as the hurt goes, but I'm sure they face much more than just slights. Yeah, well, the racism, yeah. Yeah, this is when they were like, I mean, so unbelievable that they just don't talk about it. Like, they just very, they're really stoic about it

because to make it, I mean, conversation topic is to make it more real. My 1960s Northern New Jersey was the rule back then, willing maze. Maybe the greatest baseball player ever had a lot of trouble staying in his home in San Francisco, your stomping grounds, right? Yes, yes. Liberalist place in the world. Right.

And in the 1960s, they didn't want Willie Mays living in their neighborhood. OK, if you don't think things have just gone way better, you're just not being realistic. Yes. Doesn't mean we're done, but things are just so different. Yes, it's true. It's true.

And you still have an attachment to San Francisco? No, I mean, my parents moved. They don't live there anymore. Yeah, I hardly go. I go for shows sometimes, and then I'll go for sketchfest, and I'll play music up there sometimes, but very rarely, not. And after like...

You got no center of mentality for your hometown. It's so different. It's so different. It's so different. Oh, the city. The city is so different. Why, the shit on the sidewalk? I think it's... Perfect for the dungeon.

I've solved two problems in one. All my friends have left or died. What? From... Left or died? They've left or died. From what? Fentanyl.

Fentanyl. Yeah. Why were all your friends unfentanyl? You know, like all of us, like, already queer, weirdo types, you know, all your friends, like, from childhood, they've all died. So, or they've moved away, because it's too expensive. No, my friends were beaver and wally. Yeah. They're not unfentanyl. Yeah. Oh, that's horrible. So, to me, to go back is actually very sad. But I go to play shows, I go to play music sometimes, but yeah, I haven't really spent meaningful time up there, because it's either really, really rich people

or unhoused people. It's very classified as so enormous. What is it with the fentanyl? I mean, everybody must know, and I've heard it's in everything. I think so, yeah. Like, for the first time I've heard it's in everything. I think so, yeah. Like, for the first time I ever heard of it was Prince. Okay, that was 2016.

Yeah. Never heard of it. I don't think. And then, oh, Prince, he got the good drugs, of course. Rockstar's always get the good drugs, and that's why they bury off an OD. Yeah. You know, everybody wants to carry favor with the rockstar. So, the latest, greatest, best, now that's okay if it's pot.

You know, I mean, Jay-Z's pot is probably the best pot you could ever get. Oh, you knew who I could putt killer mic. Yes. Well, I could hide on your show. Yes. And then we were so high, but it was live. I got so paranoid. Yeah.

Well, Mike and I have shared pot secrets for a long time, and I don't want to say it's a competition, but I think I could stand. I could match up with whatever pot he can come up with. He's got wonderful weed, but yeah, I'm sure yours is great as well. I'm trying. Yeah, not bad.

Well, actually, I'm trying to cut down, but I was never an everyday smoker. Yeah. You are quite moderate in all of your habits, though. Like you never really drank, you never really smoke all your time. Well, no, I did drink, but not, but I'm not it, but, you know, there's, as Sean Penn once said, there's a big difference between a drunk and a heavy drinker. I was a heavy drinker. I say, I drank Irish Lee. You know, it's, it's funny. The human body, you know, it's like a defense in football. You got to take what the defense will give you.

When my body would give me 30 drinks a week that I could handle, I took it. Now, it gives me, I don't want to push it. I know it gives me three. That's good. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. That's good. Well, good for who? I mean, I do miss drinking like a, like a dead friend

because it was just, it was just fun. And you could like, I mean, again, this is who was in my body era, but like you could keep the party going because I guess it, well, first of all, the lot of sugar in the alcohol. So you're like a five-year-old bouncing off the walls because you've had eight drinks. That's a lot of sugar. And then, you know, whatever alcohol does to you. But, you know, if you're

young and it gives you plenty of energy, it never made me unenergetic. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say that. Yeah. And pots and updrugs for me too. So like, yeah, together they were like, Oh, Jesus Christ. This is so much fun. I mean, it would be nice to be able to do that. To like just for one night, go back to that era where you would go to three or four different places in one night. Yeah, that's yeah, that's to me. So I couldn't. Right. That's too much. It's just way too much. I'm telling you. Right, that's too much. It just, I don't wait too much. I'm telling you. Yeah, that doesn't sound fun even.

No, but it apparently was then. We do it. We do it. We do it, yeah. Remember when that sounds like when there was an improv in Santa Monica? Right, it was. Yeah.

That era. Yeah. Well, young. Mm-hmm. Well, young. We were young. So do you have dates to plug? I do. I want to plug them for you.

You do. We'll be my fucking honor. I'm on tour with my live and live in Livid tour. You've never done on tour. I'm always on tour. So I'm in Hawaii, Honolulu, November 30th. And the Royal Oak Music Theater in Royal Oak, Michigan, December 15th, and the Vic Theater in Chicago, December 16th.

I love it that we play some of the same play. Yeah. But I take orders of time off between, you do not. Because I forget how to do it. No, you don't. I kind of do. That's ridiculous. But I like to just do it.

I mean, you could be rusty. Yeah, I hate being rusty. I do too. I do too. You do a lot of sets in town? No, no, no, no. This to me, that would be like going back to my high school. Mm.

And also, I survive best, not survive, thrive best, in a setting where the people have specifically come to see me. You know, I'm a kind of specific kind of comedian. I know, I think I fucking entertain anybody, and you don't even have to be super political. Yeah. A lot of my act isn't political. And what's is is very graspable.

But, you know, it's amazing. People, you know, everybody has their taste. But, yeah, I mean, it's interesting. These days, I'm playing to a more mixed audience politically. Like, there are conservatives in the audience that never used to be there. I probably lost the woke people, which bothers me not at all.

They never had a sense of humor. They're not about that. They're humorless buzz kills and all about purity. It's all the enemy of what comedy is telling the truth. By the way, I often think of that bit you did in Hawaii about who was the call? Who was it? Tilda Swinton.

Oh, yes. You're yellowful. Yes. What was that? I can't even remember. Tilda Swinton was doing something on Broadway. No, she, Tilda Sw, emailed me because she was wanted, she was, she played, um, an Asian man in a movie.

So she wanted to see if it, emailed me to see it was all right. And I didn't want to open the email because I was like, this is going to open a Wes Anderson virus on my computer. No way. No cookies, only macaron, and she, but she reached out and she wanted to know, like I played Asian man in a film,

and I wanted to know if it was all right. And I'm like, I'm not some kind of Asian notary public. Like I can't fucking stamp your shit like, oh, till that's what you're not gonna want. Like I can't make it okay. Like she wanted to get a pass. These are the kind of people I just can't stand. It's, I mean, really.

I just, the way they like, every time they want to fight racism, so badly, they always find their dumb asses right back where racism actually is. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, but it's also like really like this thing where I realized people are just understanding that whitewashing is not okay. Now we're figuring it out that people for so long like allowed Asians to not exist in Hollywood. We know, like we just were okay with this idea of not seeing us, you know.

But just looking, I mean, if a Martian came down and just watched television, he would not guess that the white people were the majority race, numbers wise, which I'm not complaining about. I celebrated. It was too far the other way for too long. But it is amazing how far that's come. Yeah. And good turn about his fair play. But like, just let's say this is the year we're living in. It's, I mean, some, I think some shows,

like you can tell that they checked all the boxes before they even wrote the script, it can go too far. I mean, you know, you do work the smaller clubs like when you're not, okay, so I don't, but the stories I've heard from comics is a lot of paranoia about if I say something and then somebody in the audience tweets it because again, this is an audience of like potlock comedy clubs for folks who don't remember or know, that's where we started and you're saying, you're a big star, you play these places,

the places you just read off for big theaters and you make good great money. But you go back to the clubs to try stuff out. Yeah. Okay, so the clubs are pot lock, you know. It's like the people go and they're not your fan necessarily. They'll be, your fans will be there,

but it won't be a room full of Margaret Cho fans. It'll be a room full of comedy fans. And oh Margaret Cho's here tonight. Okay, I love her. Or she's okay whatever but mix so you can't really depend on them to be like behind you and some of them of course in this day and age it's just about oh I can tweet that yeah and get a lot of comments and likes because I'm finding some bad person who said something bad on stage that's unacceptable

and doesn't go along with the one true opinion. Yeah. Yeah. That's some fucking bullshit that I am, thank Jesus, I did not have to live through. Yeah. Well, it's something that, I guess, it makes you really think hard about like everything that you say so much more, you know. She's the enemy of comedy. Right. Right, stuff. And to be, you have to always be thinking about, oh,

is this over the line and get the tattled on? Well, your job is to be on that line. It's sometimes to be a little over. Yeah, it's sometimes it's good to go over. I mean, then you'll know where it is. Right. It's hard, though. It's very hard. mean, then you'll know where it is. Right. It's hard though. It's very hard. Right, because you'll survive it,

because you know, you've been around. You're a woman. You're not white, you know? The saying. But like some 25 year old kid starting out and he doesn't really understand what he's trying to navigate this between what can I say that's funny and edgy I want to be edgy I don't want to be a boring comic but I don't want to get canceled you know no one's on his side yet so he just

goes. Remember that guy who was supposed to be on Saturday at Live? No I don't even know who this person is. I never knew before this story. I don't know after because they canceled him completely. I don't remember his name. Shane Gillis, he's funny. He's really funny.

Right, Shane Gillis. Yeah, he's great. And he did some, oh, about Asians. Yeah. He did some joke. And he was just like, okay, we don't know who you are. I'm sorry, but just easier to just kill you off.

I'm sure they got other people waiting to do that show. Well, do you remember what the joke was? Or what the controversy? I don't know. I met him in a Zoom with Doug Stanhope, who's a good friend of mine. So he is funny. He's really funny.

Shane is funny. So what do you think about that? I think that it's just you find your place though. You know, you find your way. Like it's... No, but them can't. But like them just like defense trading him because he was about to go on SNL.

Yeah. He's, they went back. I don't think he said it at the time. I think they went back. Yeah, they looked at it. As they often do. Let's go, let's root through. What did you say in high school?

Yeah, it's too bad because that sort of thing happens all the time now for everyone. You know, if you're very famous too, like people will sort of look back through everything that you've done. It's like this sort of scrutiny culture as well. It's tough. We don't have to like it, do we?

We don't have to think it's a good thing, do we? I don't think we can do anything about it. Like it's kind of like a, it's just a way that exists and also that the internet is kind of forever. So everything that you sort of did in the past is judged by the law of today. It's very tough. You worry about it? Well, I think if you are thoughtful as a comic, you should be able to get through it.

Like you should be able to wind your way around it. It's more about your skill and a testament to your skill to get through it, I think. That is one valid way to look at it. I'm not sure I can sign on to that 100%. I get what you're saying. We need to tread the ridge between truth and insult with a skill of amount and go. It's got to be, you know, it's got to be really,

you have to be really precise in what you're doing. But it's, yeah, it's really tough. So, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I'm just glad that I am not starting out because like, you know, the longer you're around, the more people, you know, if they, you gather fans and they think, okay, this guy has done some good work. This lady has really been state of the art and stand up and pushing envelopes and stuff. I mean, you and so, you know, we might give them a benefit of a doubt if it's,

but when you're starting out, you're just, you're just cannon fodder, you know. And I mean, it's funny. I have fun memories of my club days when I was just starting out, but I know they were really rough. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's hard in a different way. I think the first year is like the hardest. It's so hard. The first year, right?

It's so hard, because you're like, what am I even doing? What are you doing? And it's not going well, of course. And then you try to be somebody else. You're trying to act like somebody else. You're fumping around for a persona. Right, identity. So I was going to try to be Paula Poundstone.

Who is the best? Paula Poundstone is a great comic. The best. Yes. Oh, so funny. So, I thought, oh, I'm going to be her. I'll be like, I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to, I'll be like Judy Tannuda.

I'm going to be like, you know, I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to, I'll be like Judy Tannuda. I'm going to be like, you know, like, you know, like a good comic. Also great, you know. But the new people now are so, I don't know, like, they give me a lot of excitement around what's happening. See, I'm so divorced from that whole scene. It's fun, and they're. So fun, especially the Asian people like Sabrina Wu and Jenny Yang and Ottsuko O'Katsuka and it's like they're just geniuses. Sherry Kola and there's

so many wonderful Ellie Wong amazing Bowen Yang who is also in a so many amazing. He's great. Joel Kimbooster. Beautiful. It's, they're not starting up, because they've been around for a few years, but they're so young and they're so ready. So that's what makes me really excited about comedy. And where, do you, just, so you'll be happy just like doing this

right until you're, until you dropped it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And like other things will come along, you'll do other projects, but... I want to do stand-up for... Right, tell you drop. Yeah, for life, yeah, for sure. I mean, that to me is the goal.

I mean, I would love to do more TV and movies and things like that, but I love stand-up. Yeah, I do too. I mean, I... Don't you think you'll always do it? I mean, it's been 40 years, so... You know, I feel like if I was gonna drop it, I would have done it by now. Yeah.

I mean, you never know. I mean, look, age hasn't really caught up to me yet, but, you know, I'm not immortal. Although, AI, I tell you, we have a guy on real time Friday who's good, we were talking about AI, so I've been reading about AI all week. Do you know how fucking scary this shit is? I don't even think you do. I don't.

I mean, I know a little bit about it. It's like we're already probably, the cat is so out of the bag. And it like the way it's moving it moves exponentially. I mean, it's like every science fiction movie with the alien gets on the plane. I mean, the spaceship and they're like, you know, Captain, it's learning it in alarming rate. And the next thing, you know, get those things that shoot fire, that'll kill this brilliant. But this is like, I mean, I don't know, we could not make it to Christmas. I mean, this, I mean, Musk, he's, Coco about a lot of shit, but boy, he hit it, he was right about this before anybody. He was the one saying, AI, existential threat, this could wipe out humanity.

I mean, it's scary. And they don't understand it. It's already passed where we understand why and what it's doing. You know, like sometimes it hallucinates, just makes up shit. Yeah. I mean, we're I think we're really close to I can't do that, Dave. And then what? What do we do? It's too late. I don't know. But I don't want to live in that world. I mean, there's a lot of this world with everything on screens I don't want to live with. Yeah, it's true.

Are you a, what's your, you know, like a phone addicted? Or are you, you know, I am pretty much, I haven't really, I haven't been in intense relationship with it. That is, I'm trying to get away from screens, you know, with, with like, so you're on it all day, like you look at, what are you, what are you looking on? I think TikTok.

Talk is really all encompassing. Yeah. TikTok is really, it's, um, I only get dogs. I love, I love everything. I do a lot of fashion, a lot of gay stuff, a lot of sex stuff, a lot of food. Um, and then, uh, you're, are you talking about your own TikTok? fashion, a lot of gay stuff, a lot of sex stuff, a lot of food. And then... So, are you talking about your own TikTok? My feed, yeah.

My feed, I mean, just watching it. And I'll put a little bit of content out there, but it's mostly like I'm just watching it. So, it's quite... I mean, I try to lengthen my attention span by watching movies in between looking at TikTok. So I'll like put it down and watch a David Lee in film. You know, like I'll put it down and I'll watch great expectations.

All the way through. All the way through. Like I have to, I'm gonna watch Paz of Glory today because I spent a lot of time on TikTok. I think I'm crazy, but I almost never watch movies. Not what, if I went to the theater I would, but at home, all the way through. And people say, how can you do that?

I said, do you read a book all it was? You read two chapters and you put it down. And you read two more than X and I. Yeah. I'm making my way through mission impossible now. Yeah. I'm enjoying it, but I don't have to swallow it all at once. No, you can watch it one at your pace.

Yeah. So, well, I hope from one at your pace. Yeah. So, well, I hope you're happy. I am happy. You are? You feel like this is a good time of your life. Yes, the best time. You know, I see it in your face. Yeah.

You look very at ease. Hey. And in a happy place. More than you were in Hawaii. Yes, very much so. I'm feeling very good. I'm feeling like than you were in Hawaii. Yes, very much so. I'm feeling very good. I'm feeling like when you were in Hawaii, were you coming out of an unsober period?

Yes, well, I was not sober for a long time, and then when I was in Hawaii, I was sober, and now I've been sober since then. Right. So I'm doing good. Like I remember you were like, everyone's partying and you didn't wanna like, No.

But you know, be tempted and stuff, yeah. No. But I feel very good. So you're completely sober. Yep. All right, that must suck. No. No, I'm kidding.

That's great. Well, I did so much drugs that it feels like I'm high now when I'm sober. Because when you do that much drugs, then, because I'm like a really, I overdo things. See, that's the thing you said before, I do things in moderation, or I try. You know, I did drink like an Irishman for too long, but it never tipped over into like affecting my,

I mean, obviously, could my career have gone better? Yes, because I probably was like a drunk in Italy and at parties in 1997. Like pissed off half the press or something. But you got to live your life in the stage because you live with that. It's silly to look back and be like, oh boy, I'm brooding about what a duck. Yeah, you were dumber. You weren't the person you would become. You know, I mean, for men that happens much later, we, I feel like we mature much, much, much slower. Yeah.

Yeah. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Good. All right. Well, I love seeing you. I love to see you. I am so flattered. You'd come here and stop.

I know you'd be busy and doing a million things. And so I hope I don't always have to work when I see you, but it's so be it we should work together. We should. I would love that. Thank you. Thank you. OK.

Oh, the dog. I forgot about the dog. You were so well behaved. She's incredible. You are so well-behaved. She's incredible.