Club Random with Bill Maher - Sandra Bernhard | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: May 26, 2024

Bill and Sandra on how Bill asked her out at Catch a Rising Star comedy club in New York, Sandra’s avant-garde image, her one-woman shows, her role in "The King of Comedy." Personal anecdotes and experiences, Sandra's Playboy cover in 1992, Bill’s mentions his early attempts to write jokes for various shows and magazines, the lack of depth and authenticity of today's celebrity culture, how to keep a relationship fresh, Sandra’s estranged father, the challenges of being funny in a politically correct environment. Sandra’s critique of Netanyahu and his impact on Israel, Bill’s sleep wear, Sandra’s firing by Woody Allen, and the “what if” had they ever gotten together. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey, transforming into Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, nearest green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Well the pre-orders are over. My book is out now. It's called What This Comedian Said Will

Shock You and it's available now anywhere you get your books. I can't believe you and I never dated for a minute. Sandra, I expressed an interest in watching in DC. What? You took care of children? And I took them to school in the morning. I think this should be some sort of a special. What have you been doing for the last 40 years?

I've seen. 40? No. 50. I used to see you every night. Right? I've seen... 40? No. 50. I used to see you every night, right? At Catch a Rising Star? Well...

Every night. There was a time when you were all there every night. Well, I came in and out of New York because I was based here. Yeah, but there were months in time. Yes. Unless I'm misremembering. No, no, no.

Because we would all go every night. It was like de rigueur. There was no... Well, you were the emcee. I was, yes. Yeah was like de rigueur. There was no... Well, you were the emcee. I was, yes. Yeah. Don't make me brag. Well, I mean, you know, we all have our past.

Without our past, we wouldn't have our present or future. But the name of that club, Catch a Rising Star, I mean, I certainly was never rising from that club. I mean, I moved out here and then slowly moved up the chain, but you had, I mean, I remember that was the definition of that club when you got King of Comedy and when that came out. I mean, suddenly it was like,

there was those few times when somebody who was in your midst now is on a different level. And it was kind of awesome. I know. It was so... It was just surreal, the whole thing. You know, the way it happened, the audition process, Jerry Lewis... Martin Scorsese. Yeah. I mean, Marty and Bobby, that goes without saying,

because they're, you know, more contemporary. De Niro, yeah. I mean, see, this was like... Oh... We're comics and T-shirts in the club, you know, more contemporary. De Niro, yeah. I mean, see, this was like, we were comics and T-shirts in the club, you know? Yeah. So, we weren't even thinking about movies. You know, we could get a sitcom, that was the big thing. Yeah, well, I wish I'd segwayed into a sitcom. I'd have a lot more money now.

I mean, you know, I got paid scale for The King of Comedy, but you know, of course, it was incredible. Yeah, I mean, it's so funny. I mean, you've gone to these places in this business, so many varied places, you know, both like big, like show busy, mainstream, Hollywood movie, and then also lots of... Avant-garde.

Yes, I mean, I think that's how people think of you. I hope they do. It's a great thing to be thought of and you deserve it. A very few people are legitimately avant-garde, but you were, you are. Oh, I'd like to think I still am. I mean, at least I'm, you know, I'm still in the game of avant-garde.

Oh, I know you did New Year's Eve. Where's that place you'd always... Joe's Pub. Joe's Pub. In New York. It was so good, they wrote about it in the Times. I know, they did a nice piece on me this year. I was like, wow.

Oh, I have recordings of that. I have you in my iPod, I hear it frequently singing Midnight Train to Georgia. Yeah. Which, and did at least one show with that. Yeah, yeah, well, that was my special, I'm Still Here Damn It, on HBO when I was pregnant. And I never talked about being pregnant,

like every other woman in Hollywood, when they get pregnant, they use it as some sort of like, cudgel or something. Now, what are you putting in your drink? Oh, this is just a little something to relax you. And because you're not relaxed enough? What is it, some sort of milky, is that THC or something? This really blows everybody's mind.

What is it? It's gin. Gin. What's that? It's, you know what it is? It's a way to have diet soda, carbonated diet soda without any chemicals. Oh, good to know.

Yeah. These people, boy, they oughta be my sponsor. I mean, I'm sponsoring them. I'm not trying to. Why aren't they? Why aren't you? Or maybe they are, I don't know. I don't follow the business end of this. I don't follow'm sponsoring them. I'm not trying to... Why aren't they? Why aren't you? Or maybe they are. I don't know.

I don't follow the business end of this. I don't follow any of this. I just show up now and talk to whoever's there. But I do want to know who's there, because I only want to talk to people I like. Do you miss going to the Playboy Mansion? Mm. Didn't you go there quite a bit?

Wasn't that one of your hangs? Uh-oh. They had five parties a year, and I went to the parties. Didn't you go there quite a bit? Wasn't that one of your hangs? Uh-oh. They had five parties a year, and I went to the parties. So I was there five times a year, and you'd think I'd lived there. Because they would always take pictures when you're there, and then they would be in the magazine. So like five times a year, my picture was in the magazine.

So yeah, they looked like... No, it was the Midsummer Nights Eve party. That was when we're lingerie and the men were, like, you know, whatever you wore to bed. What do you wear to bed? A three-piece Oxford suit. No, I wear a smoking jacket, sometimes pre-bed, a legitimate smoking jacket.

Nobody always says, oh, if you have it or take it. Okay, he certainly loved his, but he didn't invent the smoking jacket. I mean, Professor Henry Higgins wore one in My Fair Lady. Exactly. And wore it well. Do you wear pajamas to bed? No.

Do you sleep in the nude? I do not, I sleep in the nude from the bottom down. I don't... So you wear like some sort of a shirt? I wear a t-shirt, yes. Why? I don't know, that's just so funny. I mean the idea of wearing something on top

but not on the bottom. Well because bottom's under the covers, whereas the top... You get a little cool. Like a cool breeze could blow over you. It's a little too cold sometimes. I like it cool in the room. I don't like being naked from the bottom down.

It's too... I don't like... I just don't sleep naked ever. And... What do you sleep in, Jenny? I sleep in pajamas, a little pajama bottoms, and a t-shirt. And because I like to... If I have to get up in the middle of the night, whether I'm in New York and there's an emergency

or there's an earthquake here, I don't want to be naked. I want to be able to jump out, jump into my slippers, and hit the ground running. What about your girl? You're still with your girl? Sarah, yeah. Wow, that's a long-running Broadway show. Almost 25 years.

Congratulations. Wow. It had to happen sooner or later. Right. Well, no. I mean, well, it did, though. It did. It did. I mean, yeah. I couldn't go on like that. You know, I needed somebody to ground me. And we ground each other, but.

Again, you were like in a stratosphere that us comedians were never in, and have never been in. I mean, like your best friend was Madonna. And like, I mean, shit like that. We just, and I'm sure you were at all the hippest, most innest places and parties and you... I was. But that doesn't even exist anymore.

I mean, that's sort of like level of groovy. Really? No. Are you sure it doesn't exist because our time has passed to be invited to it? I was never invited to it the way you were. Look around at the people who have taken, grab the mantle and run with it.

Are these people that we wanna hang with? I mean, I don't wanna name names because I don't wanna get into pissing contests. I'm tired of that. But for me personally, I mean. You're saying the cool kids in the class are not that cool. In this class, I don't think so.

That's what I mean. I mean, fashion was at its peak, you know, in the 80s and 90s. Of course, they're gonna say, we're just saying that because it's not our generation. And you just... I agree. But it's absolutely definitively true. I agree.

If things are not the same because of social media, because of overkill, because everybody thinks they're a part of that scene. And people kept getting just dumber. As far as what... That's called that. That's a fucking understatement. No, especially with social media. And a lot of it is just reading.

Like reading a book is just a very passe activity. I think I mentioned this before, but there was a comic who hosted SNL one week and he did a routine about how, you know, he just would never read a book. It's like, what, page after page of words? Are you kidding? And the audience is laughing their ass off

because they all obviously... Agreed. Agree and completely experience it, have the same feeling like a book. What are you, nuts? We don't read books. I mean, we scroll at best. So you're dealing with... If people don't have some sort of bad...

I feel like even cool people in the Studio 54 days also like new shit. They weren't stupid. Absolutely. Mick Jagger wasn't stupid and, you know, Bianca wasn't stupid and... Well, certainly Andy Waller wasn't stupid. Right They weren't stupid. Absolutely. Mick Jagger wasn't stupid. And, you know, Bianca wasn't stupid. Well, certainly, Andy Warhol wasn't stupid. Right, wasn't stupid. And I don't think... Yeah, I mean, there were some just beautiful people there,

but they were fucking them and snorting coke off their ass. They were... But there were also just people who were like, you went out to a club and it was sexy, but it was also probably intellectually stimulating. I don't know if that happens amongst, and again, we don't want to say the names. went out to a club and it was sexy, but it was also probably intellectually stimulating. I don't know if that happens amongst, and again, we don't wanna say the names. Exactly.

I know. You don't wanna say, for two reasons. I don't wanna be in a pissing contest and I also don't wanna elevate them to make people think that it bothers me or I think about them, because most people I don't think about. Right.

And it's just better left unsaid. Let me ask you something that I'm fascinated with and I'm so tired of this conversation. But I'll throw out one name, Mark Harmon. No, I'm just kidding. I am so tired of people talking about how you can't say anything funny anymore. And- Yeah, because we do.

But you know what else drives me crazy? It's when you have conversations like that, the funny goes away. It's like, I wanna be funny, I wanna have fun. I want things to be kicky and crazy. Yes. And carefree and madcap. So I don't wanna like disseminate how things aren't funny, you can't be funny anymore.

That's bullshit. Don't you agree? Oh yes, and even dissecting it is boring. That's my point. I can't stand it. Right, right, and also, it's so stupid, like after every administration, the press calls up like a lot of the late night comedians

and they always say, you know, now that George Bush is gone, you know, will you be funny anymore? No. Comedy will end and we'll all forget how to do it, and everyone in Washington will be so perfect and non-nonsensical that we won't have the... Exactly. Well, there's no chance of that anymore. That's for goddamn sure. Let me ask you another question. There's so many things I wanted to ask you

because I haven't seen you in so long. If you had your choice of what you consider to be the perfect candidate for president, who would that person be? Me. Not as a candidate, but to do the job. I think I can do the job great. But of course, I'm sure all of America thinks that. Why don't you?

Because I can never win the job. And quite frankly, I'm not all of America thinks that. Why don't you? Because I can never win the job, and quite frankly, I'm not willing to sacrifice what I'd have to sacrifice to do the job, but it's a moot point, because, I mean, are you kidding? I wouldn't even go on a roast, let alone put myself through a presidential campaign, the things they would say about me, and, you know... And not that I've ever really done anything bad in my whole life, but, I mean, that's not, it's the perception and, you know, never married and pot smoker

and atheist and are you kidding? And also I like my job. I think that seems right on target now. I mean, I think that would probably be the best possible. No. First of all, unmarried for my whole life. The Republican, half of them would think I'm gay. The other half would think, you know, well the other half would be a lot more accurate. You know, I just, you know, like girls.

What would they be accurate about? I like girls. But we all know you do. What, what, we haven't come? Well, I mean... Yeah, but I'm just saying, in America, first of all, their idea about what is age appropriate is narrow, really narrow.

Like, I've seen a 10-year age difference be talked about in the, you know, in the tabloids. It's just like, well, there's a, you know, a 10-year age difference. A 10-year age difference? Because you like to date women who are 10 years older than you? I've always known that about you. Yeah.

Bill, you love an older woman. I'm going out a lot. I think, at this point, you're probably dating an 80-year old. Would you date Jane Fonda? Jane's hot. I love Jane. I know you're friendly with Jane, right? Yes, of course. I mean, I'm...

If Jane came on to you and, like, started making out with you, would you make out with Jane Fonda? You know, I know the politically correct answer is to say yes. And I'm sorry, I'm just not that cat. And never have been. I have to be honest. Like, we should never castigate anybody for what their personal preference is, especially in that most intimate and personal of areas.

Your choice. No one would ever... He learns choice. No... That's... Exactly. No one in this enlightened age, and I mean that sincerely, I'm not being snarky, no one in this enlightened age would ever question if someone wanted to be gay or trans,

so they also shouldn't question any sort of, as long as they're normal and legal, heterosexual. What is normal and legal? Well, dating someone younger than you. Well, you would not than you. Um... Well, you would not date somebody who was 17. No! That's illegal and inappropriate and not even attractive.

So, at this point, what is... What's the cutoff that you would think people would judge you for, for dating somebody younger? Anybody less than 60! That's what I'm saying. Their window is so narrow for what they find. Because they're jealous and they're envious and they wish that they had the freedom to date somebody.

I know all that. Everybody listen. It's okay when Cher does it. Well, I think it's... Which it is. But it's okay if you do it. I mean, you've already, you're well established as a player. Cher. Yeah. And everybody has always known that about you. I mean, you've already... You're well established as a player. I can't...

And everybody has always known that about you. Yeah, some people are even always asking me about the Playboy Mansion. I like... Listen, I had a very, very... They were fun, those parties. Well, you know, I was in Playboy. I was on the cover of Playboy in 1992. I have it. And it's a damn good spread. My friend Michelle Komp shot that, um, uh, layout.

And I wrote all the accompanying, you know, story. And it was a very liberating experience for me. Again, these are things us other comedians didn't do. We were just not... Well, there's chances of a male comic, you know, like being a model, is like almost next to nothing. But that, but a Playboy cover is iconic in a way few things are.

Well, I don't think there's any other comedians who've done that either, so women... No, I mean, Trump got it once, but it was very rare, because obviously the cover was usually the... Wasn't it the girl in the middle? Trump was on the cover of Playboy? I believe he was. I know he says he was. Well, but I think that had to be.

Like, he was still... He was famous even back then. Yeah, you know, and whatever. It was like he was just a New York kind of fixture. Absolutely. Fixture, exactly. Homeless, whatever, you know, a bad businessman. But put up a lot of ugly buildings. I mean, he had already started to, like, corrupt the landscape, okay?

But when he was young, he was tall, handsome. What? He was always an odd-looking dude. I don't think most people would see it that way. I mean, look... I mean, he couldn't wear a suit. He had the worst taste in, you know... Well, he had a...

...habitashary, shall we say. That's true. But he was not going for that. He has a... He's a brand. I always compare him to McDonald's, or any of the fast food places because... And he loves. The fast... Exactly. But the fast food places. For some reason, they know through testing of some kind that what makes Americans want to eat is the colors red and yellow.

Is it? Yes. I guess it's like the ketchup red and yellow. Is it? Yes, I guess it's like the ketchup and the mustard. Well, that's perfect, because he looks like he puts ketchup on his face. The red tie. And mustard in his hair. Exactly, the red tie and the yellow head. You can do a character room with just like a little dash of yellow

and red and you'll know it's Donald Trump. And it's the same colors. Um... I wish we could laugh. I wish... I mean, I want to have fun. I wish I could laugh. I guess we're just gonna have to laugh. Of course. Because, I mean, what else is there to say? Your thoughts on Robert Kennedy Jr.

-♪ LAUGHTERY. -♪ The worm... You see, maybe he drank some tequila and the worm got in his. It was very sexy and creepy. I remember the movie at the time. I haven't seen it. Oh really, should I watch it again? Yes, it's, you know what? Urban Cowboy? It is one of the best movies ever made.

It's sexy, it captures America. Right. And Deborah Winger is like, she's next level. Yeah, I mean she certainly had a run there with Terms of Endearment and Officer and a Gentleman. Don't talk to me about how much I love Officer and a Gentleman. Now that one I could watch again.

Yeah, I watch both those movies whenever they're on, along with of course The Godfathers, you know. People can't get ready for me. My girlfriend, every time she walks in, she goes, don't tell me you're watching The Godfather again. If it's on, I'll watch it. It doesn't matter if it's like the long, you know, drawn out version, the one with commercials.

If I come across The Godfather one or two, and it's on, I will sit there mesmerized like I've never seen it before. I've been trying to figure out how many times I've watched each one, I'm sure, at least 100 each. Yeah. A hundred? Oh, well, you could. Because I went to see it when it came out.

My father took me to see Godfather I when I was probably 15 or 16. I think about in 70, was it 71? 72 was the first one. 72, yeah. 74 was the second one. Okay, so I would have been 15, 16, and I went to see it and I've been obsessed ever since.

Me too. I mean, I thought I was bad, but that's, yeah. But it is. I can just see you being somebody like, if we were hanging out and we were just like watching TV and the Godfather came on, we would just go, we'd put everything else aside and we would be laser focused on the Godfather.

It's an abortion, Michael! Unholy, just like our marriage! It was a boy, because all of this has to stop! And she smacks her. Right. That's the one that's funny that, of all the things, that's the scene. Yeah. But that, I mean, that is a pretty,

most people wouldn't pick a K, but she was great in it too. And that is a great moment. I mean, that, but it's very- Of course, I was heartbroken when, you know, the woman he marries in Italy gets blown up. Apollonia? Apollonia. And that was sexy. That was hot.

And then there was never another mention. Does Kay ever, does Kay have any idea, do you think, that he had gone to Italy and married this woman? Um, well... You know, that's the kind of thing an actor probably has to think about because they ask you to know your backstory, right? So, you know, like... But I'm just wondering, I'm just wondering if that was ever, like,

referred to or thought of or there was some... But I don't think there's... There's one thing we do know about Michael Corleone. That he can cold bloodedly stare his wife right in the eyes and directly lie. Yeah. Michael, did you have anything to do with the killing of Carla? I'll tell you once.

Never ask me again. You could ask me about my family this one time. One time. No. No. Michael. Right. And then kissing.

That's why I've always thought the moral of this movie was women are pushovers. No, I'm kidding. Well, a lot of them are. I mean, a lot of them are. Who was I thinking about actually? It's like, oh, once in a while I stay with my friend. You know Michelle Lee of Not's Landing fame?

Of course. I stay with Michelle Lee when I'm in LA. Oh wow. And we have the best time. But she's addicted to HGTV. And I am watching it the other day and there's this- Shopping? No, it's the house, you know, the where they do house makeovers.

Oh, okay, sure. It used to be fun and now it's just total dreck. It's dreck. So this couple, they're down in the South, I'm a husband and wife, and she's constantly leaning on him and looking up to him, and I'm like, this shit's still going on. I guess it's what people buy into, you know? People still want that kind of dynamic in relationships in this country. Which is why there is such a backlash

to women's abortion rights, to reproductive rights. It's like, I mean, what the fuck is gonna happen? Things have not changed as much, in my view, as the media would have us believe. I mean, if a Martian came down and watched TV, he would think we're all gay or trans or fluid or binary or whatever on the spectrum. But yet, The Bachelor is still on.

That's always my argument. That's your barometer. That's like my glove that I... If The Bachelor is still on, aren't we basically who we always were? I mean, they want the ring, and they want, you know, I mean... Yeah, it's true. I'm sure that even at like the highest levels of celebrities,

I mean, this is outside of P. Diddy's house. But other places, like even the, you know, the really, the ones you think are having the orgies and that stuff, I think the women are still exactly as women are everywhere. If you're really with somebody, they're not into orgies and threesomes and other chicks. Yeah. And the fights and the issues that they have

in their marriage, just like the guy and the woman who are living on $48,000 a year, and living in a two-bedroom apartment in Van Nuys. It's the same shit. Yes, it's easier when you have money and that, but it's, you know... petty jealousies and seeing too much of each other. Yeah. No matter who you are, even if you're the beautifulest people in the world.

If you see each other every day matter who you are, even if you're the beautifulest people in the world. If you see each other every day, it's so obvious that they get sick of each other. You could just track it through the pictures in the tabloids. Tabloids, I always say it, they can lie about a million things, but pictures don't lie. And when people are first into each other, the pictures, they're like...

You know, you can see the laughter, they're looking at each other in the face, eye contact, and then... And then straight ahead. And then there's... You know, with J.Lo and Ben Affleck, they're on round two. Right, and they've already got them beefing sometimes. I mean, when you're... Beefing, I think it's...

But when you're out in public, and you're still beefing, that's an indication that, yeah. That things have gone awry. Well. Let me ask you something. Have you ever come close to marrying anybody? Who?

Have you ever been, like, with somebody and you thought, okay, this is it, I'm done, this is the one. So what happened? Jane found him. The year was it, I'm done. This is the one. So what happened? Jane Fonda. The year was 1968. I was 12 years old. She was just back from Vietnam. She just unflooped. I fell in love with her, but then I loved my country too much, and she was Hanoi Jane and I couldn't do it.

Jane Fonda, by the way, as beautiful a woman as there ever is, graced Hollywood. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. And she's maintained it. I mean, you know, she goes through a lot to maintain it, but it works. And what balls?

I mean... Unbelievable. The balls to... The things that she did, and the way... And is still doing. And is still doing, but like at a time when the focus was intently on her. And also like lived very humbly when she was married to Tom Hayden. Oh my God, beyond.

It was like, it was like, you know, almost like monk-like. Right. It wasn't monk-like, but it was definitely... Well, for her... ...middle class, like, you know, the washing machine is broken. Yeah. Kind of shit. And living in this kind of neighborhood-y place. Of Santa Monica. But you ask what, she sprang back from that shit.

She was like, I'm done. I'm back in Hollywood. I want glamour. I want to have fun. I want to have a hot house and be sexy again. She's like, enough of this shit. But she never, she has never lost her sense of social justice. Yeah. No, she hasn't. I mean, she's out there still getting arrested. It's unbelievable. Yeah, for the climate stuff.

For the climate situation, I want to say. But no, seriously, have you ever thought, this is it. Yeah, I was engaged when I was 29. Okay, where were you at that time? I was in my first house, living out here. I was in my second house, living out here. I was in my third house, I was engaged when I was 29. Okay, where were you at that time?

I was in my first house, living out here on Orange Grove. Orange Grove. Orange Grove, no. Orange Grove, it's one block east of Fairfax. Yes, I know Orange Grove. Yeah. My first apartment was on Norton Avenue. No, this was my first house.

Oh, excuse me, in this year. Yeah, California. It was the cheapest house you could possibly get, the California bungalows. But they were charming. They were from the 20s. Oh, the best. In some ways, they were more interesting than the houses

today, molding and lots of fine work. Yeah, the Spanish bungalow from the 20s. I mean, it was a neighborhood that was fighting for itself. I did wind up moving because the horse kept hanging out on the corner. Just the ones from my house. I was gonna say, was that the breaking point? No, no. So who was the person you almost married, you were engaged to?

Oh, well, somebody I met in 1985. Probably at the Improv, because I lived there. Yeah. And I can't really remember. Uh... You don't remember her name? Oh, I do. Of course. I'm not gonna say it now. Are you in touch with her?

Um, I'm not not in touch. It's been a minute, but... It's been a minute. We... She ended up getting married. I believe she did. Um, she was from the Midwest. I spent a little time in Iowa. We're in the Midwest.

Iowa. I spent some time... That's rough. I spent... Shit. That's as rough as the Midwest gets, honey. I'm from Michigan originally. At least Michigan's got, you know, Motown.

It's got some edge. Iowa's actually one of our richest states. In what way? You know, money. Wow. You know, farms. You've got some edge. I was actually one of our richest states. In what way? Money. Wow. Farms. What do they grow in Iowa? Food.

Well, I know, but like wheat? Isn't that Kansas and is that more further west? I was, no, I was certainly the breadbasket. Bread, is it? Absolutely. How different? My history is for shit. No, your geography. I mean, it's, I mean if...

And my history, though, that's a second. I mean, it also borders Illinois. So it's, you know, it's not that far from Chicago. No, I'm just kidding. No, no, I'm just telling you. I thought the same thing, but because of the Iowa caucuses we see every year. But that brings out like the evangelical weirdos and shit.

Oh, I'm sure it has a million fucking rednecks. I mean, it is Iowa. But I'm telling you, it's not as stupid as you think. No, no, and of course, the Iowa writers, you know, lab, where they do every year, people come and have these writing sessions, they're very intellectual. They're making writers in the lab now? Well, sort of, along with meat and everything else.

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your current strategies with new and innovative ways that sound better. Go to RadioActiveMedia.com or text RANDOM to 511-511. Text RANDOM to 511-511 today to save up to 50%. Terms, conditions, message, and data rates may apply. Hey, I'll be at the David Copperfield Theater at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on June 21st and 22nd. I'll be at the Orpheum Theater in Minneapolis on July 13th, and on July 14th, the Riverside Theater in Milwaukee.

Do you smoke anymore? Or did you ever? I have never smoked. I mean, I- You've never smoked pot in your life? I'll tell you something. Twice I've eaten edibles, almost ended up in the hospital. I hallucinate.

I am a wreck. I'm just, I'm too susceptible. Well, you must be around them, I mean come on, with that crowd you hung with, and where do you live downtown, right? I live in Chelsea. That's downtown. And there are lots of art galleries.

Lots of art galleries. You know, people don't smoke pot anymore like in social situations. They don't? No. What a bunch of fucking losers. I mean, I don't know, I just like, I- Did you see my shirt?

Thank you for pot smoking, that's funny, I don't know. I just like, I just. You see my shirt? Thank you for pot smoking, that's funny. That's a cute t-shirt. Now, were you sleeping that? I could, yes. I may have. I may tonight. I could easily see having this on.

Are you involved with anybody now? Are you dating anybody? Yes. Somebody for a while or somebody else? Yes. How long do they usually last? A year? Because the last time I saw you, you were in my apartment because we were hung out

at Natalie Maine's who I had dinner with last night. She sends her regards to you. I was just playing... for somebody... her version, Natalie's version of You Can't Hurry Love. You know it? It's unbelievable, of course. I mean the original, you can't really top it,

but she does it such justice. I mean it's such. Well you know, anytime she covers something, she brings something unique to it, and her voice is so crystal clear and beautiful that you can't falter. But anyway, so you were in my apartment, we were hanging out with Natalie, and you were dating a very fun woman

who actually came to my show, the one that I was doing at that time. What year are we talking about? This was a long fucking time ago, I would say nine, 2005. Okay, I'm not, yeah, okay. So she was an interesting lady. I don't know if you were like hanging out with her

that long, you might have been just somebody you were. Right, well I mean that's certainly in the era when I was very, very militantly trying to maintain my singleness. Your autonomy. Yes, which I still have done. I don't think you can ever really, well I couldn't make it work with someone if we both didn't sort of feel that way about autonomy.

So how often a week do you see somebody when you're in any kind of a semblance of a relationship? What is an average? Doctor, I'm gonna answer... I'm curious. I know you are, but I wanna... This isn't for any sort of like... I know, but I wanna answer these questions in generalities.

Okay, fair enough. But I do wanna answer them because I want you to know everything about me. Well, it's about time. I know and vice versa, absolutely. You know what someone wrote in my high school yearbook once? You only get to know the good people at the end. Kind of reminds me of that.

Wow. Anyway. Are you feeling mortal? No, come on. I'm 68, are you? Yes. Not a question. I'm a year older than you.

And I will be 69 in June. I was born in 55, you're 56. You look good, you look healthy. Honey, I take excellent care of myself. You still look like you. Yeah, thank you. You look healthy, you know. And Shala.

Yeah. You still have good features, you know. That's as good as... We're doing as good as we can do at this age. Absolutely. Because as Richard Bells used to say... Oh, the Bells. We're punching 70 in the mouth. Yeah.

Case-marking. But where the fuck did it go? Where did it... I say that all the time. You know what the problem is? The two years or two and a half, three years we lost in COVID. Because it... it jump-started it. You know what I mean? It was like we were on hold. Well... And it fucked it up.

I feel like I lost two years to COVID. And I lost 30 to being stupid. Meaning what? Meaning if I could have just gone back and not been so stupid at every juncture of my life. You wouldn't be who you are. Or are. Or maybe I could be who I am better.

Well, we all feel that way. I look, there's so many things I wish I had done. I know. Things I wish, you know, a couple of roles I wish I'd taken. More money I wish I'd made. But you know what? I read some quote recently, like... resentment or envy is like the poison

that you're hoping is killing somebody else or something. I remember after King of Comedy was such a sensation, everybody was like, what's she gonna do next? And then the conversation was, why's she waiting for? Like, why isn't she doing? I didn't wait for fucking shit. That's just, I'm telling you, those were the years where people were like,

I was waiting for somebody to come to me with something that was equally as dynamic and nobody fucking came to me with anything. And it was shit. What about the one where the taxi driver solved crimes? What, were you too good for that? What was that? I just made something up. What was that? I just made something up.

What was that? That's like every stupid. Well then I just reverted to doing my one woman shows because I didn't want to end up in something. No, you got. Here's the problem. The king of comedy was an oddity. It was a one off.

You know, you never see another film like that again. And then they kind of reverted back to doing like, you know, the Brat Pack and this, that, the other thing in the 80s... Right. ...that I didn't fit into. No. So there just wasn't... Had it, had the king of comedy happened in the late 80s, 90s, there would have been indie films that I could have segued into.

There weren't indie films. Oh, never. As one great manager once said to a client, you know, your problem isn't this business kid integrity. Yeah. That's for sure. You got it. You know?

In the long run, it serves you well. I can't believe that you and I never even dated for a minute. Uh, Sandra, I expressed an interest in Washington, D.C. and I believe it was 19... What? Yes. What? Okay, I knew it would come to this.

Um, we went... We were both booked at Garvin's, which was the gig in... I mean, we did at Garvin's, which was the gig in... Oh, last year. I mean, Garvin's. I mean, you have to laugh at some of these names of these clubs. But you remember it.

Garvin's, of course. Of course, and well. Of course I do. Right, and that weekend, I definitely, and you're definitely not so much. Oh. And you know what? so much. Oh. And you know what? Well, I was a damn fool.

You were not. You made the complete right decision. And that's what I'm... Well, you just would have broke my heart anyway. I mean, you know. No, I was just, I mean, at that age, that's what I mean about, like, I can't get back those 30 years when I was just so dumb about everything.

Like, there's a good example, just if you want to just pick out a moment. If I wasn't an idiot back then, maybe I could've scored with you. You could've. Right, exactly, I could've. If I knew how to step to a woman, which I did not, which is not unusual for somebody who's 24 years old,

but it does make life painful. And why wouldn't my life just be better if I didn't have to go through that stupid pain of always doing that? You know, I told somebody this before, but you'll be amused, I think. I was looking at this picture of myself that was taken when I was 28.

And somebody was looking, I said, God, you were good looking. And I'm like, wow, that is a kind of a hot picture. And I had this epiphany that is a kind of a hot picture. And I had this epiphany that back then, whenever I couldn't get with the woman that I wanted to, I always thought, ah, I am not good looking enough. Because I got this awesome personality.

And then I realized, oh my God, it was the exact opposite. I was plenty good looking enough. Adorable. Just an idiot. What's exactly my personality was the problem, or at least some of the time. I mean, who was going to give you the nuances? You know what I mean? Who was going to teach you?

Yeah, I never had an older brother, and my parents of my generation didn't do that kind of like... No. At least, are you kidding? No. Fuck no. What was your upbringing like? Were you normal? Well, no. I mean... I was born in Flint, Michigan. I have three older brothers.

My dad was a doctor, an osteopath. Wow. My mom was an abstract artist, very talented... very talented painter. My dad was abusive. Abusive in what way? Just hated having kids and treated my brothers like shit. And kind of doted on me, but you know, still,

it was, he crossed too many lines. And then we moved out to Arizona when I was 10. And we left Michigan suddenly, I think he had knocked up his nurse. We don't know. That's what we think. But you know, all of a sudden, within three months, we left this life in Flint, Michigan to move out to Arizona.

My brothers are all amazing, we're very close. They're all like fabulous people. My mother was great. My dad left my mom after 38 years of marriage. Best time of my mom's life. And my dad is still alive. He is 101. He lives in Arizona, completely with it.

He's totally estranged from me and my brothers. But we keep tabs on him, secondhand tabs. And you have no desire to heal that before he goes? I tried. Oh, he won't do it. No, he is estranged from us. What does he mad at you for? He's just mad at all of us,

because he thinks we ruined his life, he thought my mom ruined his life. We don't know. Really, you really don't know? No, there was no, absolutely no reason. What is he, has he remarried? Yeah, he's remarried twice. So he has a wife now?

Yeah, he's with a woman named Bonnie, who's a lapsed Mormon. How old is she? She's probably in her late 80s. That's not age appropriate by my calculation. Well. She should be at least 98 for that to be age appropriate. No, she should be 50.

No, she should not be. You said he's one of... I mean, if my dad had enough money, maybe she would be 50, but he's not exactly, you know, rolling in the dough at this late date. But anyway... But they're retired and they just... No, he's still practicing medicine.

He would if he could. Believe me, that nutter. But anyway, I wish him the best. It's sad. When you know your parent is still on the planet and you can't connect. The last time I called him was on his birthday. He goes, you're calling me on my birthday? Who gives a shit about the birthdays?

And he screamed and yelled at me, and I said, you can't talk to me like this. Wait, hold up. that's so sad. We hung up. It was so sad. Oh, that's terrible. But he's not nice. Oh, I see. He's just not a nice person.

I'm... I hate to say it. No. Say it, because it's true. He sounds like a huge dick. He is. He's very Trumpian in his own way. Yeah. You know, and then the years unfold for a lot of men, He's like a huge dick. He is. He's very Trumpian in his own way. Yeah. And then the years unfold for a lot of men, as you know, and they get caught up in the white man complex.

Like, you know, we've been blamed for everything, and this is this, and this is that. So, you know, I think he got swept up into that. Yes, I call it the Fox News vortex. Well, he's definitely in the Fox News. There must be one of those swirly things on Fox News, because they... Roseanne? Oh, wait a minute. Did you talk to her lately?

Yeah, she sat right there, like a year ago. How was that? It was awesome. She was on her best Roseanne-ness that day. It's so funny. We did like an hour and 20 minutes, then she went, I gotta go to sleep. And she was just like... Did she fall off and go to sleep?

No, she just like when it was over, it was suddenly over. But until it was, she was fun, funny, crazy, of course. But also, you know, I don't know if she's winking at the craziness. She knows I am, and then she laughs. So she must, one of her personalities knows that her other one is a joke. And so it was fantastic, I loved it, and I love her, but there is someone who got into trouble

because she watched Fox News. And she got swirled in to this worldview and she's a, you know, every, she has never met a conspiracy theory she doesn't love. That's what, you know, as much as I knew her or didn't know her, I didn't realize how deep she was into all that. But by her own, excuse me, by her own admission,

she was in a car accident, a bad one. Right, I forget about that. Yes, well, and she had, and she, I was just saying she bumped her head very badly. And, you know, she has not been exactly, you know, um, compos mentis 100% since that. All right, so maybe there was some damage. There was. And, you know, she deserves a lot of credit

for all she's accomplished with that as a albatross around her neck to her... As that as a albatross around her neck to her. I sat as a baseline. Above her neck. But yes. Well, the show, I mean, the original Roseanne was one of the most brilliant things. Well, you were on it, right?

I know, and I was, it was like to watch her. Right. In her metier. You know, I was on it one week. Was I there? I believe you were. But only for like a few lines, maybe. Yeah. Um...

I played a boudoir photog... photographer. She wanted to spice up the marriage by having boudoir photographs taken. That's insane. I love that she came to you for that. She's great with that. You know, that's the thing. Yeah. Oh, she... she cast that show to perfection. Well, she... they just gave me that job

because they knew I was struggling. Like, let's... You were struggling that recently? Recently. This is like 1990. Okay, well, I always remember you from the get-go of being successful at that point. Absolutely not. I mean, I always remember you from the get-go of being successful at that point. No, no. Absolutely not. I mean, I came out here in 83.

I was doing The Tonight Show. I got on a... Are you writing on The Tonight Show? No, I was being a little chimp for six minutes, you know. Here are my six minutes of jokes. Oh, okay. That was fantastic. You're great, funny stuff. We can all relate to that. That's Bill Mayer. He's gonna be...

You do good impressions. Jeff Steinfeld. That's what he called Jerry the first time he was... Isn't that perfect? He's funny. It works in all the comedy stores. Jeff Steinfeld. It's hysterical. I know, but, um...

What are we talking about? You're talking about Roseanne, your gig. Absolutely, and also my very first episode of Politically Incorrect, that show, which you helped make famous with your spat with that guy. Oh my God. Literally a spat. A spat at him. Or so they said, I've never been sorry.

We watched it like it was a Brunner film. I couldn't see this bit. I didn't... Well, I think I was just... I was just so completely fucking outraged. It helped us. We were a brand new show on a brand new network. And there was like some... It was like, you know, this is before social media,

but there was like,, it was like, you know, this is before social media, but there was like, because it was you, this viral buzz about like, oh, wow, you gotta watch this show. It's not just like the other talk shows. They spit on each other. But that was the idea of the show, was to just cast... Oh, it was brilliant.

...mismatched people. So, Sondra Burda with the preacher dude, there's gonna be some spinning. There's gonna be... Ooh! There's more spinning. Because he started, like, weighing in about what, you know, Judaism, and that's what put me over the fucking edge. Yeah, oh, I... Whatever it was.

No, wait a minute. Is your mom Jewish? Or your dad? Yes. I mean, I always say Jewish, because, like, I never found out that she even was until I was 13. She didn't go to church with us, but I never questioned it. And then, I mean, I've never been in a temple, she's never been in a temple,

but culturally, they were Jewish, yes. So your mom grew up... Her parents were Jewish. Her father left immediately, so she had a single mom. I don't think religion was like... No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not... No. I just mean... the blood of the Jewish... The blood of Jews.

Blood of Jews ran through you and her and your grandparents. I guess so, yes. Is your mom still living? No. She'd be and her and your grandparents. I guess so, yes. Is your mom still living? No, she'd be as old as your father. At least they'd be age appropriate. My mother's not living either, sadly, but yeah. Your mother what?

My mother as well is no longer living, sadly. But my father was way out of love. But you're parted ways with your mother on greats. Oh, the best. Right. She was unbelievable. How old did she live to? 92.

That's pretty good. It is good. No, my mother was an only child from, like this was way ahead of her time. The father left, like when my mother was an infant. So her- Your grandparents. My grandmother.

Yeah. And so she raised my mother, but with, you know, it was one of those, it takes a village. Yeah. The family, the grandparents. Of course. This is much more common these days. Yeah.

Than it was then. And the father just took off and she never really knew him. So. Now what about your dad? What did he do? He was very, you know, that was Irish Catholic. You know, just. Really? Oh yeah, Maura is a very Irish name.

They were, I mean, my grandfather, who I never met, he was dead before I was born, but he had a broke. Wow. I mean, he spoke like. So he came over from... No, no, no. But the Irish, he was not the... No, he was not the first one here. I think that was the generation before. Yeah. But he had the brogue.

It just came with the territory. Well, the Irish, I mean, things were very clannish, you know? They were like all the... Yeah, that's what I mean. It was always just like, you know, they were around... They were all the cops. You know, that cliche of the... The firemen. Oh, Malley on the corner with your big chilele. You know, that and the firemen right and the Pauls.

And my grandfather was that. He was the head of the Boatsman's Union. Where was this? This is New York. Oh, and did you grow up in New York? I grew up in New Jersey. Okay. And... Do you have siblings? This is New York. Oh, and did you grow up in New York? I grew up in New Jersey. OK. Suburb.

And we have siblings? Yeah, I have a sister. Yeah. Close to her? Yeah. Yeah, I think we're pretty close. But when I lived in New York, when I knew you, I mean, that was always the, I mean, I was a little Tony Manero in Saturday Night Fever, you know,

the guy across the river in the borough who's looking to Manhattan as the place if I could just get to Manhattan, at least I'll be in the place where the cool people are and the things are happening. And so like moving to New York, to Manhattan, into my rat hole. Where was your first apartment?

Oh my God. Well first I lived in a rent free situation. Of course. It was a big fucking penthouse apartment on the east side and I lived in the maid's room which was about as big as where we're sitting here. The bed came out of the wall. A Murphy bed.

Murphy bed. And so I lived there rent free in exchange for what I had to do. Which was? I was basically the au pair and I hate children. I was like. You took care of children? I know.

Jesus Christ. You do what you have to do. I just got a heart palpitation. I know. Oh my God. That is the funniest damn thing I've ever heard in my life. It really is. What did you do with kids? How old were they?

There was twins and then an older one. Jesus. And I took them to school in the morning. Okay. Well, that, I can see you being able to accomplish that. I rode on the bus with them and then I'd go home and sleep, because I was up all night at the clubs. Right.

And then I would have to get up and pick them up from school, take them to their stupid after school, whatever shit they did. Yeah, their after school activities. Yes. And then I was supposed to speak French to them. That didn't work out too well, but I, you know... With an Irish rogue. Wait a minute. Do these kids know about this? Are you in touch with them?

No, that was one... I think this should be some sort of a special. By the way, Bill Maher was your nanny. That would be a wake-up call. How old do you think these kids are now? Oh, I can tell you exactly how old they were. Old? Okay, so... It was in 83?

No, no, 83 is when I moved out here. This was 79, my first year in the... Oh, shit, so they're like... They're in their 40s. Well, I mean... Wait a minute, maybe you can date one of them. Too old, too old, too old. Way too old. And they were boys.

Oh, I thought there was one girl. I would say the twins were seven and the older one was 10. So he was born in 1969. So he's 31 plus 24. He's 55. Oh, 55. You're right. Wait a minute. How did you get this gig? Who did... What parent did you know? David Remnick, yes.

David Remnick? Could I finish? David Remnick, yes, that David Remnick was a friend of my friend, suggested I look in the back pages of the Village Voice for rent-free situations. I went on one and it took me, I was so naive, it took me an hour to realize it was an old queen.

And why? I didn't know, it was a toss-up. Old queen, three kids, I don't know, Bill. No, no, not this one. This is the first one I went on. It was an old queen. No, no, I'm kidding. I'm saying, what would have been a more appropriate setting for you?

Roommates with an old queen, and with you carping and bitching like, you know, the odd couple, or taking care of three children? Well, he would have wanted blow jobs and stuff, you know. There was a time. I mean, I finally caught the hands, you know. But then I saw this one, and I talked my way into this one. And then my girlfriend at the time, who was in Israel,

she was a linguistics major, and she was right after college, she would come back for like a month at a time and live with me in that little shoebox of a place, and I had to tell them it was my wife. Neither one of us had rings, so it wasn't... I didn't care. This was 1979. But they were using you.

An unknown quantity, a stranger. Right. And they were so cheap, they couldn't fucking pay and hire a real man. Did they pay you as well? It was just stranger. And they were so cheap, they couldn't fucking pay and hire a real, did they pay you as well? It was just free rent? And food, but I didn't like her cooking. You didn't eat the cooking, the woman, the mother? Not with them, but my little cubby hole

was off the kitchen. And I lived these different hours. One of the things I did was I bought the next day's New York Times. They would leave a quarter out for me. A quarter it was. How quaint. And when I was coming home, walking home from catch, it was... You'd pick up the...

Correct. Because newsstands were open 24-7. That's when I knew you then. Right. That's right. It would have been a little difficult for us to have a moment at the house. Well, first, she had a girlfriend. Second of all, like, we would have woken up in a... Were you there in 79? Yes. I used to come to New York,

because I'd already done a couple of smaller films, and I'd come to New York and usually stay with my friend Marge Gross. Remember Marge? Marge, you read Gross, died of cancer? Yes, sadly, heartbreaking. Part of the 40 wave. She was fucking funny. Oh my God, remember her opening line?

Isn't it amazing what humidity does to straight blonde hair? Yeah. That is the best, oh my God. And you're into it. She was. Anyway, I would stay, actually, you know, where she would live part of the time was in Larry David's rent, you know,

they had the actor's housing. That big apartment. Okay, so I would stay there. I don't know where he was, but he was in California. We'd crash at Larry David's place in the actor's building. We had so much fun. And the person across the hall was Kramer. Larry David's place and the actors' building. We had so much fun.

And the person across the hall was Kramer. Was Kramer. That's crazy. The person who was Kramer was based on. Who was based on. Yeah, there was a real Kramer. No, that building, Jim Valley lived there also. That was that, what did they call it?

It was something, what it was was government subsidized. For actors. The arts, yes. Yes. And so comedians. Imagine? What I can imagine is that I was too stupid to get in on that, which others were clever enough

to get in on. I can't believe you didn't. Oh no, I was. It was like a dormitory, you know what I mean? It was like basic apartments. No, these were nice apartments, because they were government subsidized. True, true. They were fine.

It was somebody pushed through a bill, because something, something, blah, blah. We have to help the arts. And so, next thing you know, comedians wound up with really nice apartments, and I was living on Eighth Avenue above a bus stop. That was my main apartment in New York for three years. Eighth Avenue.

Oh, where? 55th. Oh! Oh, you poor thing. I mean, that, listen, you deserve all the success in the world if you had to live in that fucking part of town, how's that? Well, I also lived in Spanish Harlem.

Back then it was rough. Yeah, it was, I was so poor that they left me alone. How poor were you? I was so poor. Oh, so poor. I can't think of a joke. I was so poor the criminals left me alone.

I mean, that's really kind of true. But that department was really rough. No shower. What, down the hallway? No, it was a tub, no shower. Went down the hallway? No, it was a tub in the kitchen. Oh. And with an attachment. But you weren't into any attachments,

so that must have been very hard for you. I'm so unattached, I didn't want to attach something to my bathtub. No, you make it sound like I'm heartless. I would never, I respect you. I don't really know how you operate or how you have operated. This is the most time we've spent together.

Oh, I'm gonna tell ya, I'm gonna speak in that general. In this way. I'm gonna speak in that. We never got around to the generality. Let's do it. I could have left you and still not known. Let's do it. All right.

Okay. Go. Get it on, get it on, get it on, get it on, get it on. Oh! Oh! Okay. Well, first of all, it's a badly designed system. I'm talking about romantic entanglements,

at least the way we do it. Because anytime you see somebody every day, you're gonna ruin it. I mean, not completely, and people find ways around it. But there's no way, nobody in the world is that interesting. Nobody is that sexy. Nobody is that anything. And you can just do it day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year.

Decade after... century after century. Millennium after millennium. Yeah, right. And this is what people don't want to admit or say or pretend isn't true. But of course, I will do it. And I will take one for the team and just say, that's the truth. So the secret is to somehow find a way to have continuity without like that over-the-top constancy that makes everything numb. So that's my generality.

And how you figure out how to do that, that is up to you, but that's what you have to do. Some people say, you know, oh, he travels a lot, so we don't see each other that much. And things like that can help, but I feel like you have to really build something into the system so that maybe there's no reason, maybe, why you're not seeing something every day,

but it's better to miss them. It's better to miss them for most of the time than be over them all of the time. And... Just pretend that they're like a war correspondent and they're gone, oh, and then they come home and it's like, oh my God, you lived through the war again and we're together.

That's amazing. Oh, and you gotta leave again in another day. So that said, how often a week do you would- Well, again, we speak in generality. Okay, so generally, if you live with a person you're with right now, how often do you hang out? Maybe you don't even live in the same city. Maybe you don't even live in the same city.

So maybe you don't live in the same city. Maybe you don't. OK. Enough said. I mean, you don't want to go there. I respect you for it. I don't have any truck with that. I don't give a fuck.

Good. Of course you shouldn't. But I never have. No, you shouldn't. I'm open to, like long as, you said it, as long as people don't hurt each other. Do you remember the Woody Allen movie, the title was Whatever Works?

Yeah, I think that was one of his lesser offerings. Actually, I thought it was one of his moreer. Which one? Larry David played Woody Allen. Okay, let me talk to you about that movie. I had a part in it. The only time I ever got called by Woody Allen to be in a fucking movie.

And I worked for one day. He that night wrote me an email and said, I apologize. I miscast you. It's all on me. And I am terribly sorry. And replaced the role? Yes, replaced me.

We're the one that Larry David... That dropped the, fell out of the window on. I don't remember the movie that close. Okay, well, isn't that funny though? That is funny. So maybe I don't have the warmest feelings about that movie. Right.

And I was like, now you're casting me in something? And the whole, the character had two casts Right. And I was like, now you're casting me in something? And the whole, the character had two casts on her legs and a cast on her arm. She was replaced by an actress who I happen to really like, and I can't think of her name right now, but she was so much better. I'm not a Woody Allen type, you know?

He likes the, you know, like, they're kind of like, you know, they're the, you know, like, they're kind of like, you know, they're like this, and I, you know, and they bump into walls, and like, and then they, it's like, me? We were never gonna, we were never. Exactly, you're so right. We were never, Mia Farrow, the same thing. Hapless, hapless.

Brilliant, but hapless. You're right, hapless. He likes hapless women hapless. You're right hapless hapless women But okay, so There is a number of people who have done the stand-in for him also actors like Of course. I mean like every one of them. Kenneth Branagh did it. Yeah Who's this? So many have done it. So many. So many have done it.

Some of them better than others. But he writes the parts so that they have his vocal cadence. But my point is Larry David was the one who kind of was appropriate for standing in for Woody Allen. They're both from Brooklyn. They both are...

There is a, I feel, thread from one of their comedies. But he's so not like anything like Woody Allen, Larry. But I felt he pulled off doing the Woody dialogue in a way that was very naturalistic. Because... Maybe, but... But it doesn't matter, because at a certain point, I mean... But, I mean, the subtext of the movie, of course,

it kind of... Was. Well, I mean, he was roundly criticized for eventually marrying, but at the time, just dating his girlfriend's adopted daughter. Well, Sunni was there on the set. So I decided I was just gonna lay in the hospital bed because they had these fake casts. I mean, I thought, I don't wanna take all this shit off

and do it again. So he comes in with Sun Yi and I'm laying in a hospital bed and he doesn't even introduce Sun Yi to me and he barely said two words to me. I was like, what is this shit? I don't even get to meet Sun Yee. You know, I don't wanna make this comparison, but I'm going to, maybe I shouldn't.

But if you watch the Beatles documentary about making of Let It Be, John Lennon treats Yoko the same way. It's like, you know, we heard that Yoko broke off the Beatles. He never even looks at her. I mean, the whole thing is between Lennon and McCartney. Right. A love affair. A love affair that was still going on in 1969 plainly.

And Yoko is just like, I'm sorry, but... Yeah. She's just there. She's just there. I mean, I know. But anyway, it's just so funny you brought that film up, out of all the films, and then I was cut out of it. It's better, believe me. I'm so wrong for the role. Well, I really was just reminded of the title and the concept that in love affairs, whatever works.

Mostly. And I even defend Sunnee, because, you know, people, he married his daughter. He did not marry his daughter. She was not his daughter. In her own words, she once said, yeah, it's a little off beat. I mean, but, you know, love kind of is where you find it. I don't, you know, I don't know.

They've been married a long time. I gotta draw the line there a little bit. It's like Woody Allen has his choice of a lot of prospects. It's a little funky. He was a father figure. No, he was barely there. Oh yeah, he was a shitty father figure. He was a... He was not, he talks about that in his book, which is brilliant. Apropos of Nothing, have you ever read it?

I have not read it. Okay, I know you have a thing, but I bet you... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, honestly, I don't have a thing. I was, I'm kidding. I grew up on Woody Allen, and you know, it's... You'd love this book, you really would. Listen, I'm not saying that I'm not going to read it,, I don't have a thing. I'm kidding. I grew up on Woody Allen.

And you know, it's... You'd love this book, you really would. Listen, for whatever, and whatever, and whatever, you can't take away the years and years of brilliant movies that Woody Allen has made. I mean, there are moments in it that you look at and go, well, that was a little tawdry. But nonetheless... Yes, but I also, I mean, when the subject is Woody Allen,

I always have to say... lots of bad ones. Lots of ones that just didn't work. And I think he kind of feels the same way. Lots of... Bad ones, just bad movies. Like, movies that are just bad. Absolutely, I'm talking about the early years.

But he did... Yes, the early years, but he did so many movies that if you just take out the bad ones, it was like, wow, he's still got like 20 great ones. And he doesn't think so. He said, he has said, I don't think I've ever made a great movie. I beg to differ. You've made many, many great movies. He just works a lot. He does... I've ever made a great movie. I beg to differ. You've made many, many great movies. He just works a lot.

He does, I mean, that's his thing. He's a... Well, also, I mean, the discipline we should all have. Right, two movies every year. You sit down and write. Right. I don't know about you, but... But that's the bad side of that, when you're like,

every year I do two movies. It's just like... There's no friggin' way you're gonna do endless... It's a little... Right. But, you know, we all have to be... We're all... Just... We're all just human and we're all full of foibles and mistakes and... Well, we're all slaves to our personalities

that we were born with. He's the kind of guy who needs to do exactly the same thing every day. And in the spring and the fall, I shoot the movie, and in the summer and the winter, I write the movie, and I get up at eight o'clock, and I do this, and... And he eats cornflakes every day. Yeah, whatever it is.

No, no, it's just another interesting... No, I'm just saying, we all have our things that are programmed into us, and then it's out. I would only hope and wish that the other 50% of humanity was as disciplined and had something... Right. Oh. ...that they got up every day and wanted to do with that passion.

And I think that's the biggest fucking problem with our world. People have either had it beaten out of them, they never had the opportunity to even have the time to discover something they loved, or they just don't care. to even have the time to discover something they loved, or they just don't care. I mean, in his case,

I mean, first of all, just read this book. Just as a writer. I will. It's just, only because you'll laugh. And also, he goes back to like the 50s, that whole thing on your show of shows, when it was that giant 1927 Yankees lineup of writers on the same show, Mel Brooks, and, oh, I can't remember all the fucking...

Probably... Doc Simon, Neil Simon. Ugh. You know, which when we were... You believe that? What? Neil Simon? Just those people Simon, you know. Which, when we were. You believe that? What, Neil Simon? Just those people, but you know. Oh, all on the same show.

I'm not even remembering, Mel Brooks, Neil Simon, Woody Allen, I mean just right there, that's pretty crazy. But there were others, yeah. I mean, I must say, when I've watched those shows from the 50s, I find them to be horrible. Not funny at all. Well, that's the problem, but they were great writers who went on to do other great things.

I just think comedy doesn't translate through the ages. No, it doesn't. Right. You're absolutely correct. I mean, it's like watching, you know, the March Brothers. Occasionally, yeah. I mean, you're like... And they translate... Stop, please stop. I can't watch them killing me. I'm so bored. This isn't...

People who like love The Marx Brothers now, I'm always like, you don't love the fucking Marx Brothers. That is such bullshit. Well, if you just took like the best, like three minutes, you could, I mean, Groucho does get off some good, like, one-liners. But you'd have to like one-liners. But you'd have to like cut it way down.

I agree, the whole movie is hard to get through. Oh my gosh. It's a lot of the comedy writers who went to Harvard, they, the intellectual ones that love, you know, the Marks, that claim they love the Marks brothers. Well, S.J. Perlman wrote a lot of the Marks brothers movies. Okay, well. Well, I mean, he's one of the great American humorists,

and he's amazing. I'm not saying they didn't have merit. No, they had... But like you said... No, I take your point. But you just said it, so I'm reiterating. I'm using that as an example. Let me tell you something.

No, I can't sit and watch the fucking Marx Brothers, or I'll go bananas. I've been rewatching a lot of the classics lately. Like The Godfather, like The Godfather. Okay, well that's different. Yeah. Drama is one thing, comedy's another. Um, I may have wanted to introduce these films

to someone who wasn't age appropriate. Okay, well that's fun. Yeah. So one film we watched was called Giant. Yeah, of course. I had never seen it, and I always heard it was like this classic. How was it? How does it hold up? I thought it was horrible. Okay. I mean...

Melodramatic? Yeah. Melodramatic? Putting it mildly. Just... and long. Yeah. Really long, and it's about... Rock Hudson is at the peak of his rock-ness,

and he's super hot, and Elizabeth Taylor is the... What? I never thought so, but I get that... Is she not your type? Not really. There are lots of things about her. I don't... Yeah, I mean, I didn't think she had a good body at all. Richard Burton used to make fun of it. Well, you know, squat.

No, squat. Thank you, Richard. We really appreciate that. Since you were a fine physical specimen yourself, I mean... Puck marks, old British actor. But yet the two of them... And here I am with the most beautiful woman in the world. Must be my acting. Did you do characters in your act? I don't remember that.

But you might have found a second calling. No, I don't do them now, but I'm just saying. And yet. You're blowing my mind. I didn't think... I mean, he's a rancher. He owns a ranch in Texas, like, that's the size of Rhode Island or some shit like that. And he visits her and her family somewhere. Anyway, he marries her overnight.

Like that's all you have to know about these two is is like, this is how much this is a connection. It constantly happened in movies. People were always marrying overnight. Really? I mean, okay. So then they're on the train, she's taking her back to Texas, and now she's gonna be this Maryland girl in Texas. So it's a fish out of water, and also it's... I guess it was considered a big movie

because it was one of the first, I guess, to address racism because the Mexicans who work the land and the ranch, he's not properly sensitive to it. Is that sympathetic? No. The plight of the Mexican farm workers. So it's very on PC, and she's ahead of her time there and sticking up to the Mexicans

and getting the medical care and Obamacare. She brings in Kamala Harris to make a speech. It's ridiculous. But it's like, if one of those goes through time, so you see them age, so they're very... Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's terrible. So now they're like... Oh yes, I remember.

I have watched bits and pieces recently, I was like, the worst hair and makeup I've ever seen. Put the gray. A spray can of gray in the, yeah. And then the, and bad, like, they just take like a pencil and make them, make the wrinkles. You know, lines, deep furrowed lines with a pencil.

A lead number two pencil, just come here. Who was the big, the makeup artist right there? What was his name, Dick somebody? I don't know, you know, the makeup artist from that time. I'm telling you. I'm sure Edith Head did the wardrobe. Edith Head. You're funny is what you are. Well, you blew it.

What was the club again? Garvin's. Garvin's in Washington. Then we stayed at that hotel. It was a nice hotel. The Shore Room. No, no, I know. That was the first year. Yes, we stayed in a great hotel that was way above what we usually got. They just got a rate. You know what happened? Because it was walkable.

I stayed there a couple extra days and they locked me out of my room. I don't blame them. Because they kept saying, oh, I hadn't laid down my own credit card for the extra nights. I was like... So. Because they kept saying, oh, I hadn't laid down my own credit card for the extra nights. I was like, so I had to like, broker a deal, it was a whole fucking shit challenge. Because I was bitter about being rejected, I'm the one who put them up to that.

Okay. And after all these years, it's got that. Truth is out. It has to come out. Truth is out. That's really why I wanted you here. Yeah, but maybe it was all for the best. Maybe if we had connected in that way, we wouldn't have stayed estranged friends. Because we're also been estranged for fucking years.

No, we would never been estranged. We just never got there. We just had, we're on different tracks. What about interesting? Hey, but this is like when it was meant. See, but you know, when you think about it, it's like, oh my God, can you imagine sitting here now, had we done it, thinking about remembering how it was.

I'm not the cosmic type, but things, they happen when they happen. I wouldn't ever say they're meant to happen, but it's almost like a pleasure that some things happen, we saved it for now, and we have time left. It's like in the Beatles documentary, George says a great thing about Ringo, you know, the crowd hated it first

because they fired their old drummer. How could you get rid of Pete Best? And George says, Ringo was always in the Beatles. It was just, that was his entrance time. That was when his moment was to walk on the stage. It was in Act Three, it wasn't in Act One. But it was always meant to be, because he was Mr. Spiritual. And it's like that, some things, you know,

hey, like my high school yearbook says, you get to know the good people at the end. So, when was the first time you encountered, like, any kind of sex? at the end. So when was the first time you encountered like any kind of sex? High school? Yeah, probably just like right on the, sort of the tail end of grade school going into high school.

I, I fooled around with a young boy who I had a crush on. He touched me down there. I was like, don't ask. I fooled around with a young boy who I had a crush on. I think he touched me down there. I was like, don't ask. I was like very young. But it wasn't like, he was the same age as me. It wasn't like, I wasn't like, oh my God, this kid was like, you know. It was consensual.

Yeah. I'm not fishing for like a... No, no, no, no, but I'm just, I don't have like trauma in my life, you know, I'm lucky. Well, you do, your father. Are you kidding? A lot of, well, that's, look, I... I don't, I have resolved everything with my father.

God forbid when he dies, I will cry. It will be, it will bring things up. But I don't, I've tried to mend fences with him. I... He's still not nice. I still don't like the way he talks about certain people. How old is your kid? She'll be 26. So she doesn't know her grandfather?

She has met him and she didn't like him. Right. To no one's surprise. She was very instinctive. She was like... But she doesn't... It's not feels... She doesn't feel like that's something missing in her life. She didn't have it. Not at all.

Yeah, of course. I mean... Not in the least. I mean, I liked my grandmother, my mother's mother. She was okay. I mean, she was cool. I could kind of tell she was a hip lady. And, but like, the guy she remarried, grandpa, I thought he was a corny guy. I could have easily never met him and be fine.

And then on my father's side, I mean, his father was long dead. And Grandma Moore, I mean, she was, you know, like the old Irish lady. She was like, white hair and looked like George Washington. Just like, I don and looked like George Washington. Just like, I don't feel like George anything to that relationship at all. There was no connection. I don't feel like, I can't remember anything.

The thing I ever remember about her was when she was sitting on the lawn, I guess she was babysitting on our front lawn, and I was throwing a hard ball way up in the air and catching it, and I lost one of them them and it came down and it missed her. And hit her? No, it would have killed her. But it missed her head by about a foot. Oh, shit.

I just remember my heart pounding again. But that's like the only thing I remember about her. And so I don't feel like, I know some people are getting very close to the grandparents. I was very close with my mother's parents. They came from the old country, from a shtetl. Ooh. Two different shtetls. In Russia?

Yes. Russia? Yes. Holy, I didn't know you were like that. My grandparents came over the turn of the last century, and two brothers married two sisters. Were they fleeing a program? Absolutely.

They were. Yeah. The Cossacks were riding through. You feel that flowing through your veins? Absolutely. Because,. Yeah. The Cossacks were riding through... You feel that blowing through your veins? Absolutely. Because, you know... But I'll tell you something. I am not...

You know, everybody's like up in arms now about being Jewish. Suddenly everybody's discovered their Judaism. It's like, I grew up Jewish. I was born in Mitzvah. I went to Hebrew school. I did the whole thing. You know, I like being Jewish. and I got a Shabbat, I do my thing.

But, I, it's all, everybody's suddenly like, I'm Jewish and I'm being, I don't feel, I don't feel persecuted. Well, not persecuted perhaps, but there is an anti-Semitism afoot in this country that we haven't had in a very long time, and I never thought I'd see the day. I tell you where it comes from.

It comes from the right wing, the extreme. No, it doesn't. You think it's left. You think it's from the left. Well, there's anti-Semitism on both sides. The right wing has the Jews will not replace us nonsense. The left wing is even worse. That is coming down from elite colleges

who see everything only through a racial lens. They are stupid, they don't know history, they think everything is about colonizers and racists and how awful America is. And America has done some bad things, but to drag Israel into this as the stand-in for everything bad thing white people ever did. This is not any more complicated to most of these college kids

than the Palestinians are brown and poor. And the Israelis are rich and white, even though half of them are not rich and certainly not half... not white and certainly not half rich. Yeah. So, but they think they're rich and white, so they're the colonizers and the apartheid people and the genocide people, and none're the colonizers and the apartheid people

and the genocide people, and none of this jives with the facts. But can we get on the same... Can we get on the same page and agree that Benjamin Netanyahu is a shit-disturber and needs to be yanked out of Israel? He is not good for Israel. He is not good for Jews. He has also contributed to the global mistrust. And that shouldn't be Jews, it's Israelis. But even Israelis aren't to blame.

He is solidly to blame for everything that's happening right now. He is so not to blame for everything that's happening. That's the fault of the Palestinian people and the religion of Islam, which gets lost in all of this. I mean, we are fighting... Wait, wait, wait. What? Islam, you've heard of it?

No, no, but I'm saying, no. No, but how is that... What does that have to do with... You said Netanyahu was mostly to blame. Mostly to blame is Hamas. For what is happening right now? Right now is happening because for years, Hamas took aid money and instead of buying food with it and building buildings and hospitals,

they bought bombs and made tunnels. Guess who supported Hamas? Correct, yes, you're right. For strategic reasons, which probably were, in retrospect, not wrong, but it wasn't like he was, it wasn't like Netanyahu was working against the interest in his mind of his own people. I know they say... He's working in the interest of only one person, himself.

Because he doesn't want to go to prison. I don't believe that either. But it's a moot point because... We were having such a sexy conversation. It's a moot point because Netanyahu is not long for the job. But what everyone who's been to Israel will tell you, my dear, is that even when he goes, the Israelis are completely for the policy.

That will not change. So, yes, they don't like him, and there are good reasons for that, I agree. But the policy will not change. They want Hamas eliminated. Okay, well, that's it. But Hamas never should have had the power they had. Correct. He enabled them. Okay, well that's it. But Hamas never should have had the power they had. Correct.

He enabled them. Yes, you're right. Okay, let's leave it there. And even worse. I don't want to end this fabulous... I'll tell you the worst... Red crush maw. The worst...

And love affair that has been overridden for years. First of all. Talking about Israel. Just because we don't agree exactly on something doesn't in any way taint our love, right? But you see, now, but it might create a situation where we don't wanna talk for a couple of years. We don't have that kind of time to waste.

No, we don't, we don't. We're like, we're like. I don't wanna wind this conversation up or down on this very hot, hot, uncomfortable pita I'm gonna wind it up. of a conversation. I'll wind it up, I'm just gonna say one more thing. I'm gonna jam a pita with you.

Not to you, Netanyahu's biggest. Netanyahu, Netanyahu. Netanyahu's biggest sin is that the attack happened under his watch. He was Mr. Securian. But they also knew they were forewarned. But that's the biggest one.

You can't. Israel would never have let this happen under anybody else's watch. This was. Whatever it was. It was like. And you can't talk to it. Puneach that this happened. It can't happen.

I was in Israel when the Yom Kippur War broke out. I spent... 73? Yes. How old were you? You were 17? I was 17. I went to Israel, worked on the kibbutz.

For eight months, I went to Greece for a month. The Yom Kippur War broke out. I flew back into Israel in the middle of the night and spent another month on the kibbutz working, I flew back into Israel in the middle of the night and spent another month on the kibbutz working. Was there some revolutionary love in the air? Was there some socialist? There was from all over the world,

everybody, every volunteer on the kibbutz was from Sweden, Australia, UK, South Africa, America. We had the best, it was the best fucking time I've ever had in my life. I knew fellow love with one another. Not really, I just had lots of fun. Some Israelis, some Americans, it was next level. All right, well, I'm sure I can't match that in the future, but I'll do my best, so.

So, you know, erit zisrael, honey. I take your hand. I could talk to you forever, but... Melichisrael, hi, hi, vickdaiyom. Wait, before you go, do you want to plug something, or don't you have this documentary coming out? Well, I'm a part of some documentary about... Tell me about it.

Well, I did this... honestly. No? I don't want to. Right. I just want to be here in the moment. Right, I did this honestly No, I don't want to write. I just want to be here in the moment. This was oh my gosh, the way I just stretch Uncomfortable to love you guys. I love you, too Akash and the lips like God 40 years in the making 20 years in the making. Let's throw down these steps together. Like we should have years ago.