Club Shay Shay - Trevor Ariza Part 1

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Shannon Sharpe shoots the breeze with NBA champ Trevor Ariza at Club Shay Shay. Trevor Ariza talks about playing alongside legends Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Harden, and Chris Paul. He discusses the Clippers' star-studded experiment headlined by Russell Westbrook, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. Brace yourself – he's doing a reverse layup by picking Kobe over LeBron. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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LeBron James is the oldest player in the NBA. 1B. Kobe 1A. 1B So pay the price, want a slice, not to roll a dice He's top 30 all-time in steals. One of the original 3 and D guys. A UCLA alum. A part of the 2004 Pac-10 all-freshman team. 2003 Mr. California basketball

California high school state champion. He's LA through and through. Trevor Reason. Trev, what's up, bro? Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. How you been, man? Man, I've been chilling, man. So, a guy that plays 18 years in the NBA, obviously you're used to having a schedule. And if I'm not mistaken, this is probably your first year out. So what does an 18-year veteran do now to fill the time that he normally would be doing playing basketball?

Man, that's crazy because as I was getting closer and closer and closer to the end of my career, that's what my friends that have retired years prior to me was telling me like you get a lot of free time so I had kind of a guide to to learn how to you know manage my time right so spending more time with my children I was able to do that and I have a couple of other like projects that I was able to to invest my time into so you know going back and forth to the islands um and putting the majority of my time in with my three children has been uh where most of my time has gone to do you miss it do I miss it not not really I don't really miss it because you know every day I'm with my son and he's he's in the gym a lot so right I don't have the the like I'm not like starving to go back out there on the court and

go play well because like as you started to get older your body kind of started to break down you started to get injuries and when you start to get injured it's hard to sum it up because you spend more time rehabbing than you do training And what you want to do is that you know, the time is nearing the end You just want to play basketball and you're not playing you're in the training room What you're getting surgery though. You're doing all of this. Did that start to wear on you mentally? mentally yeah, I think I had a bone spur in my in my right foot and

Just trying to get back into the groove being like the age that I was at, it wasn't comfortable. Right. It was agony. It wasn't fun no more. So my mind is telling me I can do certain things, but my body isn't allowing me to do the things. It doesn't respond to it. That's when I knew it was like, all right, it's time to go sit down save some legs for for uh for your jits yeah save some legs for your jits so you mentioned you have a son and he's fine and I see where he's following in your footsteps uh has offers from UCLA USC

Washington how tall is he and how good is he uh he's 6'8 right now. Wow. So we're around the same height. Right. And how good he is. He has unbelievable talent. He's ultra, ultra, ultra talented. Bouncy? He's pretty bouncy. He's getting more athletic as he gets in the weight room a little bit more.

He's still young, really young. He's still only 15 years old. as he gets in the weight room a little bit more he's still young really young still only 15 years old so you know he's uh he's learning how to uh to to work on his game he's learning how to love or fall in love with the process of of the things that you might not like to do when you know you are pursuing a dream when when you were playing how locked in was he to what you were doing and he's like did you think that like you know what you might want to follow what dad does or do you like okay i'm gonna let him choose whatever he wants to do i'm just gonna support him either way yeah no that's never been my thing

to push anybody to do anything okay they kind of got to want to do it for themselves because to play or to do something at an extremely high level. Can't nobody do that for you. You got to want to do that on your own. So I kind of just allow him to, you know, play with it a little bit until he came to me and was like, yo, dad, this is serious. You know, I really, really, really want to do this. And then, you know, with the experience that I have, I was able to kind of show him some of the steps that he needs to take and how hard it actually was going to be

right the sacrifices that you was going to have to give up to to achieve the things that you want so you and i were talking earlier off camera and you said like where sofi was that's where you used to play football yeah so obviously you play football you play basketball has he done anything other than play basketball oh yeah he played football at the same park. He played baseball. He's a really good athlete. Smart kid. He could do a little bit of everything. So you're one of

these dads that believe that a child should do multiple things instead of just specializing in one thing. Because we see a lot of kids all they do is play football. All they do is play basketball. All they do is play baseball. You believe playing multiple sports make the kid more well-rounded. Oh, yeah, it definitely does. I was a kid that played multiple sports. My favorite sport coming up was football. You know, I just love the contact.

OK, I like to hit. I like to score touchdowns and all that stuff. But I end up outgrowing it right got too tall i thought i am in my frame yeah you didn't get my frame didn't allow for me to continue down that path so you know so more sports was good you said he's 15 6 8 about your same height a game of one-on-one we play it to a level who win it i'm gonna kick his ass you can't let it beat y'all trail no hell no that's out so at 15 let's go back you at 15 your son at 15 who's better at this age he has more skill for sure right because he has someone teaching him as opposed to you i just i just think as time goes on you evolve yeah right and when i was coming up you know this the game or the skill was completely different you had to actually be a dog right and

i feel like that's where i'm gonna kick his ass on i'm a i'm a dog so because you were a three and d guy you're a guy that can shoot the three, but you're mainly known for your defensive prowess. So how, what are you trying to instill in your son? Because a lot of these kids I see now, they focusing on the offensive end, because that's where you get the glory. That's where you get the limelight. Right.

So are you trying to like, look son, you got to play both ends of the court. You just can't. Yeah, well, he's a competitor on his own. You know, he don't really like to lose. So anytime he has a challenge or if he is playing against another one of the top players, he takes that challenge on his own. It's not even something that I got to instill in him. He has that on his own.

That's natural. That comes natural to him. You said your son is, you know, we talked about evolution. What's the biggest difference that you see with kids in the game of basketball today as when you were that same age in the game of basketball? Again, there is. So the era is more social. You know, this is social, but it's not social. Right. And what I mean by that is internet social instead of like personal social yes so like people are texting and not not actually talking right so you miss that kind of you know connection connection going outside and playing with the

homies all day riding your bike to the park or riding your bike to you know whatever school that's close to get to the gym. They're not really getting that. We're driving them everywhere. They're in the gym. They got trainers. It's more like a business than it was just for the love. And that's the biggest difference. I'm looking at you, and your son played against LeBron's son, Bronny,

Gilbert Arena's son, Master P's son. You were an ex-professional athlete. How do you tell your son how to approach it when he's playing against other celebrity kids? I don't think there's a difference, man. You treat everybody the same. You treat people with respect, but you still got to try to break their fucking neck on the court. I mean, that's what it is. It's competition. And you want to impose your will on the court i mean it's that's what it is it's competition and you want to impose your will on the next player and like you may be cool y'all might be like friendly or friends or whatever the case may be but on the court it's no friends right how how strange is it to see your son playing

against lebron james jr considering you played against LeBron James Sr. Yeah. It's crazy. It's really full circle, you know, and that's the beauty about sports and, like, you know, having offspring, you get to actually watch them. It's almost like playing a video game. So the things that you may have done then, you can kind of, like, you know, say, hey,

yo, look, do say hey yo look do it try to do it this way or think about it like this so you get a second chance at uh reliving moments in this type of space right here right so what type of parent are you are you kind of like you know i think now in the social media area we get uh era we get lavar ball or although there was no social media are you more like dale curry because dale just sit back fold his arm watch steph watch his son what don't what do what they do bar was telling you mellow like this jello like this zoe like this all my boys like this they go to one team guaranteed championships multiple what what type what type of what type of dad is Trevor Ariza the type of dad that I am is the only person that is

responsible for the success is him right I don't have to go out and brag to a whole bunch of motherfuckers I'm not on that so like everything that I try to do is I try to instill in my son what he has to do So it's not gonna be like, you know, I'm not gonna Project my like what I see in him right on people. He's gonna have to do that on his own with his game You know, I'm just gonna feed it to him. That's that's the type of parent I am Why did you think at 15 years of age he needed the NIL deal? That's that's kind of Why did you think at 15 years of age he needed an NIL deal? That's kind of, how can I say this?

He's young. He's really young. And to me, it's a bit early, but in this day and age, you know, you never really, you never really could like say what's too early and what's not early. The good thing for him is, you know, he gets an opportunity to see what it is, see what he likes, see what he don't like. And he's so young that he can still make decisions to do whatever he wants to do. How receptive is he to your coaching? Because a lot of times, you're still his dad.

Yeah, you're an ex-basketball player, but you're his dad. Yeah. And it seems sometimes, I know when I had my son, he seemed to be a little bit more receptive to somebody else telling him what he needed to do as opposed to me because he could not see all he saw was his dad was trying to tell him something and if somebody else told him the same thing like okay i get it now no it's the same thing that's universal man i don't think that changes for anybody

but um the one thing that i do notice is that when he sees like what i do tell him he comes back to me i was like all right dad you was right you was right about that dad right and I just looked at him and I kind of laughed laugh at him right I'm looking at California basketball California because I had I had hold the hat on DeMar DeRozan and I said well who you got California basketball a New York basketball who I got yeah I'm homegrown bro I'm always gonna be loyal to the soil I don't know I'm looking at I'm looking at okay Kareem they got I mean New York got Kareem Michael Jordan Mello Ron Artest Dr. J Stephon Marbury Lamar Odom you guys got Bill Walton Reggie Miller Jason Kidd

Ray Allen Gary Payton Paul Pierce Kawhi Kale, Kaleigh, Dames, James Harden. I mean, as far as volume, y'all got them. Killers. But man, I think Kareem and Jordan alone gonna take out like 14 of you guys. So now, it come down to Dr. J. What y'all gonna do

with Mello and Dr. J? Man, Mello is tough. Mello probably like up there in like the three. The top three in New York, J? Man, Mello is tough. Mello probably like up there in like the three. The top three in New York, huh? But, you know, like on a whole, I think we just got way more killers than them. Yeah. Let's talk about the Clippers

situation. Recently they acquired James Harden. So now you pair James Harden with Russ who's playing, who Russ was playing extremely well and he's been playing well since he got to the Clippers last year.

You got Kawhi you got PG. Do you think they needed James Harden and what's going on why hasn't it been able to mesh so far?

So in basketball or in team sports as you know chemistry is the biggest thing that you have to overcome. Right. James didn't go through training camp with them, so he didn't get a chance to even get acclimated to what they're doing. It's going to take a while for them to figure out what they're doing, period.

They've been going through injuries throughout their seasons with having PG and Kawhi already. So hopefully this year, somewhere 20 games, they'll get a chance to mesh together and figure it out. Does someone need to come off the bench? Can all four of those guys start? No, they can't really. I mean, that's just the reality of it.

It's not an all-star game. I mean, that's just the reality of shit. It's not an all-star game. So what they got to figure out is how, who, and what. Who's going to have the ball? Who's going to play a role? Who's going to sacrifice? Well, how hard is it?

Because James Hart has been an MVP. Russell Westbrook has been an MVP. Kawhi Leonard is a two-time finals MVP. Paul George has been an all-NBA player. So you try to bring all these personalities together. And like you said, Russ and James need the ball. Now who's going to have the ball late in the ballgame? Good thing I don't have to worry about that.

But that's the question that they have to figure out as a team. For 10 games, do I have the ball? Or does James team. Like, for 10 games, do I have the ball? Or does James have the ball? For 10 games, does Russ have the ball? Does Kawhi have the ball? Does PG have the ball? Like, how do you figure that out?

Right. That's kind of like, I guess, as a team, who's going to impose their will? Right. Who's going to be the dominant player to be like, nah, let me see, because I'm going to will us to this. But that don't seem like Kawhi's personality. Now, I could be wrong. You played against him.

But when I look at him from a distance, he doesn't seem like a guy that's going to call a team meeting and say, hey, this is what needs to effing happen. He doesn't seem the guy that's going to bring the huddle together and say, guys, look, we're going to run this right here. You're going to get me the ball right there, and I'm going to go make it. He doesn't strike me. And I could be wrong.

Like I said, I'm just looking at it from a distance. He doesn't strike me as that. That seems more like a Russ to say, okay, this is what we're going to do as opposed to anyone else. What do you, you know,

you played against them for decades. Who is like that? Let me see. Um, I will have to say Russ probably is more of like an alpha when i look at that group but again that might not necessarily be true um knowing kawaii i know he's a he is a dog like in every aspect of the word so um they got to figure that shit i'm just happy happy you're not on the team having to try to figure it out along with them.

Yeah, for sure. So when you heard Harden says, I'm not his system player, I'm the system, I'm a system. Considering that you're not going to be the James Harden that was in Houston because you got three other all-stars with you. And you're not, I don't believe he's that same player

because I think some of his athleticism has waned. And like you said, he didn't get a training camp, so he's not in the peak condition to be able to get by people. Kawhi ain't finna stand around and let you be the system. PG ain't gonna stand around and let you be the system. So how does James change his way of thinking in order to make this thing work? Well, I think that's up to them to them players.

If he's coming in with that mentality yourself for them to change it. OK, like if I'm going into a situation and I've been the guy like my whole career and my whole time. Right. Only way I'm changing it is somebody make me change it. Right. And if that's you know the stance he's gonna take it's up for that team to figure out how they're gonna get him to come into whatever they're doing to to switch that up if not they're gonna have a problem you know what you're the perfect person that I got you here you played with James Harden Houston yeah what's he like in the locker room because we hear these stories,

staying over late in a city, going to Vegas in off days. What's James Harden like? James, I guess what people don't know is James will work his ass off. Like, after practice, he's running sprints. Before practice, he's shooting. He's getting his treatment.

He's lifting weights after games what he doing his personal life and his personal business that's that's up to him like nobody should give a fuck about that you cool with that so you cool if he like opt out he's heading to vegas or you know because you know you see like i mean from the videos now you like i said that social media gets you in trouble but because they put everything on social media he in the club he popping bottles he got them hunnids around him is that conducive for winning a championship um because at the end of the day for him that's the only thing that's left to prove he's improving he's one of the best players he's a top 75 player where you want to rank him as far

as two guards obviously the two top spots belong to jordan and kobe so if you want to say he's better than way a lot of people gonna going to fight you on that and say Wade is the third best because Wade got championships and yada, yada, yada. But he's a top whatever you want to say. Only thing left is a championship. Can you win? Should he? Like, you know

what, guys? I done got this part in. I'm going to be able to get that part in again. Let me go and get this championship. Let me focus on this. I'm going to give up the strip club. I mean, I know that hard. But, you know, I'm going to give up some of the, like you said, you told your son, he's got to sacrifice. What's it worth to you?

Yeah. Some people, I guess, some vices work for people, you know, and trying to... Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Change a player's game in a ninth inning, that's not going to help nobody. Right. So, you know, however he decides to live his life, if it comes a time where he feels like he wants to make a change, that's on him. And everybody's going to have an opinion. So the idea for us as athletes, fuck everybody else's opinion on what I got to do. As long as I'm doing what I need to do and helping myself or helping my team doing the things that I've been doing. I can't really listen to what anybody else have to say.

The peanut gallery is always going to be that. Right. How difficult is it for a player to change his off-court behavior when he's had success doing it that way basically his entire career? It's going to be tough. It's hard. You got to get humbled in a way. Right.

You know, and a lot of the times when people stumble across things that humble them, they start to look for ways to change and to fix things. I mean, he goes to Houston. He had individual success and he had some great

players. He had Chris Paul. He had Dwight Howard. He had... Okay, it didn't work there. I want out. For whatever reason, I don't know the reason, but he wanted Paul. He had Dwight Howard. He had, okay, it didn't work there. I want out. For whatever reason, I don't know the reason, but he wanted out. He goes to Brooklyn. He has KD. He has Kyrie.

It doesn't work. For whatever reason, I don't know the reasons, he goes to Philly. He has arguably the, I think Jokic is the best player in basketball, let alone big. I think he's the best player. He probably, Jokic is the best player in basketball, let alone big. I think he's the best player. Jokic is one of the best, but I feel like right now Anthony Edwards is the best player right now. Yeah.

On his team? Anthony Edwards is a fucking dog. You mean to say he's the best player on the Timberwolves? Yeah, I agree with that. I feel like he's the best player in the league right now. He's my favorite player in the league right now. How about that? Why didn't it work at those places for James? league right now he's my favorite player in the league right now how about that why why did it why didn't it work in those places for james think about what kd's tops is all 75 player

chris paul's all 75 player i think i believe for me personally i think the white howard should have been on the 75th anniversary team why didn't it work i mean it don't work for everybody all the time a lot of people don't win and the the team that we had in Houston was a really good fucking team. Right. We just ran into the best team of the decade at the time. Right. You know, so. You had a 9-3-2 trap.

Yeah. And then one of the top 75 players, first ballot Hall of Famers got hurt. Right. You know, and, you know, we, I don't know, shit on the money. There was a situation when Chris Paul and James Harden, they were in Houston. There was a timeout. And Chris was trying, I guess Chris was trying to tell him something, and James Harden slapped his hand.

You were in the, so what's going through your mind when you see that happen? What's going, let me see. I got to think back to the play. When was that? Do you know? It wasn't in the playoffs? Yeah. Okay, so probably in a playoff situation.

Chris is a communicator through all things. Right. James isn't much of a communicator. all things right James isn't much of a communicator um so I think with Chris being more of a communicator and James more of an art I get it you know let's move on I think um in a situation like that it's just two difference of of opinions on how shit should go how was your interactions with daryl maury daryl uh daryl is i guess a businessman you know he's not a bad dude he's just you know he is a businessman and he gonna do what's best for the business at all times because if you think about it he gave james harden the max when i'm not so sure a lot of other teams would have been willing to give a sixth man the max.

And gave up, you know, gave up, you know, compensation to get him. I don't think he got the max when they got him. Well, he got the max for what he could get. Yeah. And so now, Darren Mars in Houston, he builds everything around James. James is cooking, wins MVP, yada, yada, yada, going to All-Star. He's All-NBA. He's making a name for himself.

People like said he might be a better scorer than Jordan. He might be a better scorer than Kobe. He goes to Philly. He's like, I want him in Philly, and they bring him to Philly. What happened? How did it sour between Darryl Morris and Arden? Philly. What happened? How did it sound between Darryl Murray and Arden?

That situation, I don't ever really speak on other people's situation like that, so I don't really know. But what I do know is getting the max, he earned that. However many times he got it, he earned that. And I know

for the time that he was the MVP or scoring all the points, he earned the league and those teams he played for a shit ton of money. And this is a business. Right. So and as far as like the business aspect, he checked that box off when it comes to doing what he needed to do. Us as competitors and athletes, the thing that he hasn't done is win a championship. Us as competitors and athletes, the thing that he hasn't done is win a championship. But every great player don't win all the time. Right. So we got to kind of not really. I mean, we can't judge him on that. Right. But is it really, really, really fair to judge an individual on if they're going to win a championship? It was a team sport. Right. So my my my to you, as you start to get older, you realize that you have less time.

Mm-hmm. Should he have given money back to Philly? Fuck no. What? There's no such thing as giving money back. Right. No, because when they take it from us, when they find us,

they don't give it back. Right. So, no. And I think that might be the crooks because, you know, hey, if you take less money, we'll be able to get this player. But you taking money from a millionaire,

but a billionaire got it. Not even that. It's not his job to fix or work through the salary cap. It's the general manager and that franchise's job to figure out the best way to work and construct that team through the salary cap.

And if you decide to give a player the max, it's not his job to give money back. No, you ain't getting no money back. Nah, fuck no. Let me ask you this. You've been a part of culture. We hear the term culture or the heat culture or the patriot way and this and that. Being a part of a winning culture and a losing culture, what's the biggest difference?

Habits. Things that people are going to accept. Your team holding you accountable. Your teammates holding you accountable. That's number one. If your teammates don't hold you accountable, then you don't really... You're going to be a bad organization.

If you don't have no vets, you're going to be a bad organization. If you don't have no vets, you're going to be a shitty organization. So why are teams so willing to get rid of vets? Because I've heard a lot of people, not just basketball, but in football also, the older guys that's kind of showing the younger guys how and how not to do things. So why are teams and franchises so willing to move on from vets and have, oh, we got Eight guys that's under the age of 20 probably cuz they cheaper Okay, I mean it's a business right at the end of the day and your bottom line is what's important now

This is just my thought process. It might not be you know what it is, but I Would think that's that's the reason Whose responsibility is it to create that culture? Is it the star player? Is it the coach? Is it the general manager? Is it the franchise? Whose responsibility is that? I think the responsibility is the organizations

led through the coach, through your vets. That's, I think, the pecking order it should be in but i definitely believe that the fact that there's not a lot of vets in the league anymore and throughout whatever all sports i think that kind of helps bad teams stay bad right how disciplined you know you hear that now i don't believe any successful per i don't believe you can be successful without discipline which requires you to do your very best when no one else is watching. So how hard is it to be disciplined, hold people accountable while still having fun? Being able to put everything in it in the right place, compartmentalize.

Yeah, I call it. Yeah. Understand there's a time and a place for everything. mentalize yeah I call it yeah understand there's a time and a place for everything when you when you commit to something that's first and foremost you're gonna have fun doing what you're doing if you love what you're doing right it's gonna be fair so a basketball should be fun because that's what you wanted to do your entire life exactly so everything else is extra you play with Kobe yeah one of the most disciplined mofos rest his soul one of the most disciplined the most important thing was basketball it was no bs and if you would be if you weren't gonna help kobe win no championship if he saw you bro it drove him crazy yeah he probably wouldn't talk to you if he didn't feel like he was on the path that he was on

and you know i understand that because like-minded people usually connect you know so did you understanding at the time or as you moved away from it i understood i understood it before the time right you know i um i come from a winning program high high school. You know, my friends, the people that I played high school basketball, we held each other accountable. Right. And through holding each other accountable, we all, you know, end up going Division I. So I understood that from a young age.

How was Kobe able to build a championship locker room? Because I'm looking, you played with Harden, you play with Chris Paul, you play with LeBron, you play with Kobe. You play with a lot of guys that's on that set. What's the biggest difference between Kobe and all the guys that I named? Because everybody want to know, okay, what's the difference between LeBron and Kobe? So let's go with just LeBron and Kobe. What was the biggest difference between them?

I think Kobe is more of a I don't give a fuck if you like it. If you like me, this is how we doing it. I think Bron kind of is more conscious of what's going on. He's more of, he's cooler with more people than Kobe was. Kobe don't give a fuck if you like him or not. That's just the truth. Kobe, he was just that cold-blooded. Kobe come in like, hey, y'all, we working today?

Y'all ain't gonna help y'all. Yeah, that's, I don't care. So when, and everybody tells the story like they lose a game and Kobe like, man, take my shoes off. Y'all sorry, mofos don't need to have my scuff on. Yeah, no, I didn't experience that, Kobe. Right. You know, our team wasn't like that team or the teams that he had where he talked to them that way.

You had a more veteran ball club because it was you and Powell, Kobe. Andrew Biden was kind of the young guy. Fish was still there. I was 22 at the time so I was a younger player right um but my mentality never was one of a younger player I always had to I'm gonna I have to go get out of that mentality yeah I had I'm I'm on the same thing y'all on so um my mentality was a mentality was a bit different so how was was it in practice? You, you got to guard, you know, obviously you going against COVID, you know, he going to bring it and you know, you got to bring it because he going to try to embarrass you

and you're not trying to be embarrassed. No, absolutely not. And I think that's how we start. That's why our relationship was so what it was because I'm not, I don't care who you are. I don't give a fuck about none of that. I'm going to compete because I'm a competitor, and I want to beat you just like how you want to beat me.

And I think he understood that. How was it becoming his teammate? Because you guys competed against each other for a number of years. He dropped 40 on you, you rookie. My rookie year, yeah. And you know what's crazy about Larry Brown? Had this thing where every player that whatever city we go to, he was going to start you if you're in your home city.

Okay. And he started me. After probably sitting me like 10 games. Right. So, yeah, I wasn't ready for that one. Right. Yeah, but, you know, he did. Did he let you know about it?

Who, me? Kobe. Nah, he never, he, nah, he didn't really. On the court, he was fucking destroying me. Yeah, of course, but. But I'm saying once you came to the Lakers, he like, Trev, you remember that 40 piece I dropped on you? Nah, he dropped 40 on so many people

that he probably didn't even remember that. His only thing was, are you gonna do to help us win were you on the lakers when kobe demanded the trade no that's before my that before your time yeah how different do you think kobe legacy would have been had he been trading because i think the thing that's so fascinating is that he played 20 years with the same team right i think it would have been a little bit different just because, I mean, I don't know where he demanded a trade to. Seemed like he wanted to go to Chicago. Chicago.

Yeah, I don't think it would have been the same thing. It would have been different. He would have been in the shadow of Mike, you know, and I don't think he's a person who deserves a shadow. Right. You know, he's his own shadow. who deserves a shot on. Right. He's his own shot on.

How demanding was Kobe to win a ring without Shaq? I think that's something that he wanted to... It drove him fucking... Sleepless nights. I could probably say that. He wanted to prove that, you know, he was who he thought he was.

Lamar Odom said that had you played against the Celtics, y'all would have beat him. I would like to agree with him with that. So when you lose, I mean, that was the series and that you guys had that big, they had that big league, I think it was game the series and that you guys had that big league. I think it was game three. We was up 22. Yeah.

And then they came back. I remember the thing that I remember, Ray Allen just getting to the can and just. Reverse lit. Oh, my God. That took all the momentum out of. Staple. Yeah, at the time. So from that point on, they just that gave them the utmost confidence.

And, you know, they took the series after that. But how is it how does a young player gain the respect of the veteran players in the locker room? The work ethic, the things that you do every single day to prepare for your opportunity. to prepare for your opportunity. Like, I broke my foot earlier in that season, and Kobe would meet me there at the gym. You know, he wouldn't beat me there. He would meet me there, you know, going through my thing, doing my shit.

So, like, seeing that time after time after time after time, you know, he understood that my mission was the same as his mission. You know, I'm a winner just like how how he wants to or how he is. And, you know, when you see things or people that are like minded, you gravitate towards those things. And, you know, we are like minded people. But did he ever say anything vocally, verbally about, man, look, bro, I got to get that championship. Man, Shaq went to Miami and got him a gun got him a chip He done got one without me and he up there. You know, he don't write diss tracks. He talking I mean was he ever verbal about that or you could just tell the way he practiced the way he moved that that was very Very important. Sometimes he will come in practice just aggravated, you know wouldn't say shit to nobody and you can tell like

in like his demeanor that those things was ticking him off you know like he wanted it bad right he wanted it real bad and uh i'm not sure if it was a competition between him and shaq if it was i wouldn't have known because he never like bad about Bigfella at all. But I know that his drive was always to be the best. He probably, you know, that's why he wore number 24 because he wanted to be better. He wanted to be better. Yeah, you know, so.

Because 8 to 24 really doesn't make any sense. No sense at all. So, yeah. Yeah, so you had Phil Jackson. What was playing for Phil like? Playing for PJ was dope because it wasn't, we had a system in place. Right. So, it wasn't really like he had to come up with, like, crazy schemes inside that system.

He just had to be able to manage personalities. And I think that's where he was the best at managing personalities getting like huge personalities to how do you come together because you know mike was mike and it's easy for mike because there's nobody else on that team that knows scotty is not thinking he's as good as mike jordan and ron harper know about that scotty mike scotty was probably just as that's the and that's the thing that media, I feel like, don't point out. You think Scottie thought he was just as good as Mike?

Not defensively. Now, defensively, hey, we know what Scottie is. But I'm talking about – A scorer? Yeah. I don't think he – I think he felt like his impact was just as important. Wow. Yeah.

Why wouldn't it be? Yeah, I'm not saying that's not. But I think when I look at Shaq and Kobe, there are the there are the point. There are the defining point that Kobe said, I'm just as good as this mofo, bro. Y'all say whatever you want to say. And I understand what he is. But I'm just as good. Nobody is as dominant as Shaq.

Yeah. They changed the rules for Shaq. Mm-hmm. That's just what's real. But when you look at, I mean, how old were you? Kobe got to the league, what, about? 96 or 97. 96.

He got in 96. I was 11. So you came in 11. So you saw the maturation. You saw the guy that airballed the ball in Utah. Yeah. And then you see like hold on are you sure dude 18 are you sure he's 19 and then at 20 21 22 22 he's got a third

championship his body changed he locked in come to a completely different level yeah he's he's after, I guess, to me, he's the best player ever. Wow! Yeah, he is. You got Kobe over Mike? That's just my favorite player. Right. But, I mean, Mike is in a completely different, he's by himself. Right.

But if I had to say, Kobe is the best player ever. When you said You texted him Kobe's legend You texted Kobe a photo of him shooting Over three people And Kobe says Means someone

Should have a TV put back if I miss Yeah He meant that Wake up with football every morning And listen to my new podcast NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal Five days a week You'll get all the latest news,

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for a while well we're here to take your game to the next level maybe you love fantasy football and you've been feeling that itch to jump into the dynasty format, but it feels a little bit intimidating. No matter where you're coming from, the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast has something for you and you're going to have a great time listening, I promise. Join me and the rest of the crew every Wednesday for a new episode. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He laughed, but he was dead-ass serious.

Right. Because, again, like you said, those teams that he was on, he probably felt that they could get the putbacks. Right. He felt like his shot was the the best shot even if it was on three or four people i mean how i mean when you look at when i look at the nba now it's like when kobe came the jordan shoe was the leg yeah now it seems to be the kobe shoe is what the jordan shoe used to be to the NBA players today.

Yeah. Am I correct in that? I think on the court for sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Kobe's shoe is, you know, the shoe to wear. And I believe it's probably that because I feel like Jordan limit the type of shoes that he let the players wear. Really?

If he let players wear, like, the retros and all that, then, you know, it might be a little bit even. But, I mean, Kobe's shoes are more comfortable. Yeah, because he don't really let them wear the, like, the Jordan. He let them wear the Jordan line. He don't let them wear that old stuff, the stuff that he actually wore. Fact. That's, yeah. Well, he tried to sell the Jordan line.

He ain't really tried to. The retro, the Nike thing, they going to do that. They tried to sell the jordan line he didn't really try to do the retro the nike thing they're gonna do they're gonna do that they're gonna sell regardless right i need y'all to get some of these jason tatum and this other stuff exactly november is here and we're in the heart of football season basketball and hockey are just getting started so many games to watch on any given day but wouldn't it be better if they were live? The best way to get tickets to any of these games this month is on GameTime, the fastest growing ticket app in the U.S. GameTime is obsessed with finding ways to help save you money on tickets. You can find exclusive deals and sponsor

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And how different was it from the first stint? The first time I was there, I was really young. I was 22. Right. 23. And I had something to prove, right? Like, coming in at my 18th season, you know, I've done all the proving that I can prove. And my role was completely different at that time.

So, you know, it's two different situations. The organization has always been great, always was great to me. But, you know, the roles or, you know, what I was asked to do was completely different at the two different times. Why didn't it work? We're the fucking old. You got all players that are like, you know, vets, super vets.

Right. You know, super, super vets. And you're asking players to do things that are at a right age that they didn't do in their younger age. You can't ask Mello to go dive on the floor for a loose ball or chase Anthony Edwards around for 40 minutes. You're not going to get that out of him. You know what I mean?

So you're not going to ask Dwight to come off the bench and only play 15 minutes when, in his mind, he feels like he can contribute more. That's just a tough thing to do. You're not getting Brian off the court. That's never going to happen. Right. So when you have things like that and all those elements in that form, it's hard to win.

Hard to win. Russ. Russ's dream was to come back and play for the purple and gold. OKC, Houston, Washington. That was great. The triple-double, the first guy to average a triple-double since Oscar. He won an MVP in OKC. They had a decent season in Houston.

Ended up going to the bubble. You know, it happened. He goes to Washington average two more triple doubles. He a killer. He comes to L.A. So much fanfare. You got Braun. You got A.D. and Russ. Why didn't it work with those guys? And the criticism was unfair. the amount of criticism that Russ received absolutely Russ every single night he put his hard hat on he does everything that you ask of him every single time they were asking him to go play in the dunker spot he was doing that shit so but that's not that's not that's not his

game right so like I said when you put anybody in a situation where you have Bron on the team, he's not coming off the rock. Right. So, Russ is the point guard. Right. He plays. He needs the ball. So, why make that move when you know Bron needs the ball, Russ knows that he needs the ball. There's only one.

This ain't pool where there are a bunch of balls on the table. Basketball, you got to work hard. See, I'm glad I don't have that issue, and I don't got to worry about that. I don't, constructing a team or putting a team together. Right. I never had that problem. If you were general manager, would you have put this team together?

It depends on why if it's to sell tickets yeah yeah no you gotta win that you didn't tell no ticket you're the lakers you had to win a championship you know what you play for the purple to go you know what it's about yeah and you know how those fans are right and the fans don't care the one thing being in la what i've noticed the fans don't give a damn what you did at another organization what you're gonna do for us yeah you want mvp over there fine you want championships over give a damn what you did at another organization. What you going to do for us? Yeah. You want MVP over there? Fine.

You want championships over there? Fine. Now, what you going to do for the Purple League? What did Russ average when he was there? I think, what, 18-7-7? What's wrong with that? That's all-star numbers anywhere else. Right.

People are getting their max off that. Right. So's not, people are getting the max off that. Right. So, nah, you can hit the criticism completely off here. But that's not what they expect. You know what expectations are. Yeah. You can't expect Bron to average 27, 7, and 7. And Russ average a what?

A triple-double. A triple-double. An AD average. An AD average 26, 12. That's, then Mo average 18-7 and whatever. That's unrealistic. That's like playing

in a video game. Right. So somebody should have been willing to like alter. And he was and he did. And he got all

the criticism for it. You know? His game hasn't changed throughout his career. Lil Wayne recently said and in order for the Lakers to trade, Anthony Davis said to win a championship. And I guess AD must have heard it. Got the braids out, got the fro going, and he been lighting folk up. Yeah.

I mean, sometimes it takes for somebody like that or people that you admire to like get in your shit for you to understand that you know you gotta be as hungry as you need to be for it to work. AD is a special, special, special player and sometimes he don't always show that he's special. But this year he's been doing what he's supposed to do so far i agree with you because sometimes i don't think ad realized just how special he is because i remember what he did to yogich in the bubble i remember what he i've seen him go get 50 points against joel and bead i'm getting 40 points to get yannis yeah and then the next night he come give me 11 and see AD got upset when Laker fans and a lot of analysts criticize it

They say AD how you give somebody one rebound in the first half and no points in the second half and think you're supposed to Escape criticism under what planet under what scenario our player and he was the top set Damn, not about think about it. AD was top 75. Damn. Now that I think about it, AD was top 75. Right, yeah. And you give us one rebound in the first half and zero points in the second half, and you're supposed to say, oh, man, that's all right, man. It's not good enough. No.

It's unacceptable, period. There's no questions about that. It's unacceptable. On no planet should AD ever have one rebound and then no points. It's just unacceptable. On no planet should AD ever have one rebound and then no points. It's just unacceptable. LeBron James is the oldest, current oldest player in the NBA. I mean,

what, I mean, Tre'a, you played, I mean, 1B. Kobe 1A. 1B. How? How is he able to play at this level for such a long we've seen guys have peaks but they peak

and this dude the dude got here and stayed there I mean he's like a plane he got to a comfortable cruising altitude and stayed there he's like I mean I used to have this joke with my friends that he was like he was created in the lab he not even he's not a real person so that's how i mean when you're like obviously you guarded him a number of years yeah

what was your mindset what are you trying to what are you trying to do how uncomfortable are you trying to what are you trying to take away just him getting in the paint him getting downhill because if he's in the paint he's disrupting everything because he can finish at the real finish kick he could pass he's strong as a motherfucker so he has all the tools you know the only thing that you can possibly say is that his jumper is streaky right and you want to keep him out the paint right when you played against him in high school yeah in your wildest imagination even though he they had had him on sports and chosen one. Did you think he'd be this good? I thought he would be this good.

I just didn't know how fast that was going to happen. You just see it. Some players are just completely different. He's built like you, and he runs. And he get up and down the court like TJ Ford did. TJ Ford is a small, quick guard. Right. So, like, you just see it.

What's the – forget on the court, because I think in order for the game, it's what you do off the court. So, from a practice standpoint, from a training standpoint, what are some of the similarities or some of the differences that you noticed that Kobe did and Bron did? It's the work, for sure. Like, the amount of work that they put in is the same. Bron will be doing work that you don't even know,

like, at home or, like, off-site. And then he'll still be at the gym before everybody on the court then he'll be in the training room getting his body right then he'll be getting jumpers up after the game then he'll i mean after practice then he'll be back in the training room or in the weight room stretching so you know the amount of work that he puts into the game is you know pretty much similar the person is just different they're different yeah what Yeah. What's the biggest difference? LeBron is more personable. He's definitely more of a people person.

Kobe, give me your middle finger. What age do you think LeBron's going to retire? Because here he is, he's six weeks away from being 39 years of age, and he's still playing at an unbelievable level. We saw him the other night go get 38, 12 and what, six, seven against Phoenix. And we've seen him have these monster games and he can still go off at any moment. At what age do you think that it starts to noticeably dissipate? I don't think he's still I don't think he's as athletic. I think he can do some of the things,

just not for as long a time, a period, as he can do it. But what age do you think? Like 41, 42? I think he could do it for as long as he wanted to do it. And the way he takes care of his body and the mentality that he has, he probably could play until he's probably 45 if he wanted to. Yeah, real. Well, if he played probably 45 if he wanted to. Yeah.

Real. Well, if he played a 45, the record ain't gonna never be broken. It won't. I don't think the things that he's done is... Nobody gonna catch that.

I don't think nobody's gonna catch the points that he's gonna score. Wow. Yes. How long did it take for him to break? How long did Kareem

record last? Kareem had the record for almost 40 years. Kareem had the record for almost 40 years. Kareem broke the record in Vegas. Because back then, you know, they played. I mean, they was trying to grow the league. And so he broke it against Utah, if I'm not mistaken, at Thomas and Mack in 84. LeBron broke it in, what, March or April of 23?

So almost 40 years? And then it's still going. Yeah. And he's still playing. And he's still scoring a gang of points. And nobody gonna catch that. You play,

and the funny thing is not only did you guys play against each other in NBA, but you played against each other in high school. Yeah. And your uncle said that Bron was overrated.

And I guess somebody told him. I don't know about that. He just gave you 52 for no reason. I don't know about that. I mean, he's a fucking good player. Tramp, you can't let him get a 50-piece on you. I mean, I didn't let him. You think I'm going to let anybody do that?

That's what he did. You know, he was that special. So, you know, you can't take nothing away's what he did. He was that special. You can't take nothing away from what he did. Obviously, there's starting to be social media, but it's not like it is now. You heard about it. What are you thinking? He can't be that good the way y'all

talking about him. Boy, he should be in the NBA right now at 15, 16. He can't be that good, and then you see him. And you see him as a 15, 16 year old. You're like, hold on. Man, let me see his birth certificate. Because there ain't no way somebody built like that at 15, 16. Nah, you just, again,

when you playing against elite talent, you see elite things. And he just was the most special out of special players. He was like the best X-Man. For real. So, yeah. special out of special players he was like the best x-men so yeah Kevin Durant he said at some point y'all non-athletes gonna realize that friends compete harder against one another and LeBron agreed do you agree a hundred percent because like it's just like having a brother mm- You're going to try to beat your brother at everything.

Because I don't never want you to have braggart rights over me. I'm never going to say that you did this to me. So, yeah, you're going to compete harder against your friends than you're going to compete against anybody. But why do the older guys seem to forget that every time Magic and Isaiah used to play each other, they would, you know, give each other a kiss on the cheek. But Magic took his ass out the air.

Jordan and Barkley were very cool. But they make it seem like they was fighting everything with bad boy pistons in the Celtics or bad boy pistons in the pool. They seem to forget that we had TVs. We saw it. Yeah. I think it's just then I feel like now they help each other up more they are bigging each other up more which is not really a bad thing but like in terms of competing you kind of don't want to let you know your right hand

know which yeah what the left hand is doing how has aau shaped that because you played against LeBron. You know him. These guys now, they've been playing against each other since they're 10. So how do I develop a rivalry? How do I develop a dislike or a hatred versus those old guys? They ain't see each other.

It wasn't no AAU. You weren't traveling around like this. You saw each other at the McDonald's All-American game. That was probably the only time that you really saw each other. And so you went to one college. I mean, if you went to duke north carolina obviously you develop or i don't know who you're right what uh usc yeah okay we get that but these kids now a lot of them play on the same

high school team or the same aau team so how do i develop how does zion and john moran who played on the same aau team develop a rival against each other? Try to kick each other's ass every time they step on the court. That's it. It don't stop. You don't have to not be cool with them. Right. But when you're in between those lines, I'm going to fucking eat all your food.

So what are your thoughts on super teams? What's a super team? I mean, there have always been super teams. But, I mean, the old guys seem to forget that. What were the Celtics? The big three Celtics were Bird, Parrish, and McHale. They also had Dennis Johnson, who's in the Hall of Fame. Right.

The Lakers. So what was Kareem, Magic, and Worthy? Killers. Was that not a super team? But see, it seems to me. That worked through a draft, though. That's the thing. Well, everybody ain't Jerry West.

Mm-hmm. Everybody ain't Bob Myers. Everybody wasn't Coach Allback to be able to put a team together. Yeah. I hear that. I think, like, the difference now is players want to play with each other more so than play against each other. Right.

And that's probably the thing that irks older players. Like, if you're not on the same team early, I want to compete against you because you're my rival, and I like the competition. You know, it's just like playing cards or dominoes, right? Like, I'm going to try to kick your ass on the domino table. You still my dog, you still my boy. Well, I'm still going to go at you.

And I think that's the difference in today's game than the errors before. What do you think about, for me, and I call some criticism, but I'm not afraid to say it. I believe, even in football, the players are more skilled. They're more athletic. And today, it's called evolution. Players get bigger, faster,

stronger. They jump higher. They shoot better. Yeah, they do. From deeper, from, you know, they shoot from half court now. You see Dane come across half. If you're not at half court with him, he'll let it go. shoot from half court now. You see Dane come across half. If you're not at half court with him. He'll let it go. Yeah.

Guys wasn't doing that. The game was completely different. So I think that's, older players have to let that go. But see, I think the older players play football. When they're not as tough. I mean, being tough. The rules are different. Yes. Yeah, like being tough is, I guess in your era of football, getting a concussion, getting your ass back out there on the next snap, putting the Band-Aid over the helmet.

Right, yes, yes. That was the physicality of it. Right. But that, I mean, I guess, I mean, would you consider being tough a skill? Now it is. It's a mentality that you got to have. And it's a little bit, you got to look at it different now. Their tough is different from what our tough is.

Right. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf.

Subscribe today, and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. This is Jimmy O'Brien from Jamboy Media. I want to quickly tell you about my podcast. It's called Jimmy's Three Things. Episodes come out every Tuesday, and for 30 minutes,

I dive into three stories in Major League Baseball that I want to talk about, or I do a stat deep dive. Sometimes I create my own stats. It gets weird. It's now your go-to podcast for staying up to date and in the weeds with Major League Baseball. No topic is off limits or too small. Bad umpires, great pitcher-catcher duos,

new rules, old rules, three things that I want to talk about. Listen to Jimmy's Three Things on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Renee Stubbs, and I'm obsessed with sports, especially tennis. Tune into my podcast each week to hear me and my friends in the community break down the latest matches, including the U.S. Open. Plus hear from some of the biggest names in the sport

about what the future holds. It's about belief. And once you break through that, then you know you can win a Grand Slam. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast every Monday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.