Comedy of the Week - Call Jonathan Pie: The American Dream

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

In the first of two US election specials Pie (Tom Walker) is tackling the thorny issue of democracy and is quickly derailed. As he takes his usual balanced (not) approach to the US presidential candidates Jules (Lucy Pearman) dangles a juicy carrot. There’s a big gig in the offing; if only he can stop ranting about one of the candidates. Can you guess which one? Written and performed by Tom Walker. Additional material by Daniel Abelson and Will FrankenJules …. Lucy Pearman. Sam ….. Aqib Khan Roger ….. Nick Revell Callers ….. Rosie Holt, Ellile Dobing, Daniel Abelson, Will Franken and Ed Kear Original Music ....Jason Read Voiceover .... Bob Sinfield. Producer ….. Alison Vernon-Smith Executive Producer ….. Julian Mayers Production Co-Ordinator ….. Ellie Dobing A Yada-Yada Audio Production for BBC Radio 4

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. But the world was safer under Trump, wasn't it? Was it? You'll notice the end of the world didn't happen under Trump. So if you want world peace, get Trump back in. It's a fair point. During Trump's first presidency,

it's almost like the rest of the world was going hands away from the red buttons lads, this guy's a lunatic. And yet Donald Trump, he's back on the ballot. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. That's all we've been hearing all election. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. And then, if I'm right of course, for the next four years after that. Because I think he's going to win, personally.

Don't trust the polls. Trump always performs better than the polls suggest. And they're essentially neck and neck. The Democrats should be very worried. Ah, sweet, sweet democracy. What a species we turned out to be, eh? Hit rock bottom, haven't we? Or have we? Call in and tell me why you think America should vote for Trump. Um, all ears. Anyway, now it's traffic and travel. How many times can you stop talking about Donald Trump? We can't just do hour after hour of Donald Trump. We're supposed to be having a phone in about the state of democracy.

What a state it is in and if Trump gets a second term... Listen, please, you have got to rein it in with the anti-Trump stuff, all right? democracy. What a state it is in and if Trump gets a second term... Listen please you have got to rein it in with the anti-Trump stuff all right it's all you talk about it's getting really boring. Yeah I'm boring myself Jules, spiritually bored. Wagon reel and KitKat as requested. Sam. Look just trust me just lay off the Trump bashing for a day. How? You can't avoid it you can't avoid him from a news and current affairs perspective he is omnipotent. He's like God or Alison Hammond on every fucking channel, wherever you look.

Trump's first term was like childbirth or a Big Mac. You forget how awful it was and with enough time you'll give it another go. It's just a bit overkill. We don't want to saturate the airwaves. You're very good at doing Trump. Thank you. But it's all you do. Just Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump, exactly that's what I was just saying. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

It's like boots marching. Scary military boots marching over the horizon. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. And I know just banding around words like fascism and dictator and despot are generally lazy comparisons, but if you listen very carefully, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump Trump it does sound a bit like goose stepping Jonathan please trust me when I ask listen we've got a bit of a side hustle going on

Oh Jules you're not organising illegal dog fights again are you? What have I told you about that? Shut up I'm being serious it's something I think you'd actually be quite a good fit for So tell me more Can you just trust me and do something anything other than Trump? What is it? What is it? We're back! Straight in with the next call, it's Colin from Siren Sister. Right, there are populist movements rising everywhere.

Far left, far right. What does that tell us? Dunno, the world's gone mad? That we're losing the ability to talk. You need to be able to sit down with the people you disagree with and at least try to understand them. You might not change their minds, but if you don't understand why they think the things they think, you won't even have a chance.

Now there's just left and there's just right. And if you're not left wing, you think everyone that is is some middle class hypocritical champagne socialist arse wipe with an Extinction Rebellion car sticker in the window of their diesel 4x4. And if you're not right-wing, you assume anyone that is is a Nazi and in between there is nothing. It's just about slinging insults these days. You're a freak, you're evil, you're racist, you're stupid, you're a basket of deplorables.

How do you think people are going to vote if you talk to them like that? That's why people wait until they're in the voting booth. So what's the solution? We need to talk and to listen to each other. I'll tell you what you get if you don't. Donald Trump. Might work I suppose, but I can't see it myself. So straight in with another call. It's not about Trump, is Trump. No, no mate, I want to talk about Bernie Sanders.

Oh bless lovely Bernie. Alright, go on then. Yeah, so Bernie Sanders said in a speech recently, Mr Trump, you're not going to divide us up by gender, by race or by who we love. So it is about Trump. Isn't that exactly what liberals do every day of the week? Divide us by race, gender and sexuality. It tends to be the liberals doing all the labelling, mate. I see where you're going here. Yeah, it's just identity politics, isn't it?

And identity politics doesn't win elections. Economics does. And Kamala needs to make sure she doesn't do what Hillary did. What? Be a terrible candidate. It wasn't good enough for Hillary to just say, I'm a woman, vote for me. But she also split the electorate up into little groups

and told each one she put them first. Blacks, Latinos, gays, women. Yes, her feminist supporters said they were going to vote with their vaginas, which is a neat trick if you can hold a biro that way. So if Hillary stood for women, blacks, Latinos, gays, then what did Trump stand for? Americans.

More black Americans identify as American first, black second. He was for every American. It's a far more inclusive message than what Hillary was offering, innit? Listen, listen, I don't think Kamala is making the same mistakes as Hillary apart from the Democrats favorite pastime, underestimating Donald Trump's electability, but she's not making the same mistakes. She's making all new different ones. What she's not doing is

offering a clear alternative to Trump for tens of millions of voters. She's not really saying anything. She's doing exactly what Keir Starmer did here in our last election, just trying not to drop the Ming Vars. But he had a 20-point lead in the polls. She's neck-and-neck and as I said earlier he always performs better than the polls suggest. Okay, thanks for the call. It's a different world isn't it? I mean, America really, really is. Guns, God, abortion. That's all they ever talk about. Different culture. It's different.

I mean, find me one person in this country that thinks we should have similar gun laws here to the US, or who thinks capital punishment is a good idea. That's probably a bad example, but it's a different world, isn't it? Now it's the news and the weather. Have a break, have a Kit Kat. What did I just say? I don't know, what did you just say? You were behind that three inch sheet of glass.

No, about leaving Trump alone. Not not, Jules, what did I say? Less Trump. We can't justify your thing when he's talking about little else. Like I said, we don't want to saturate the airways. Yes, sorry Roger. Hang on, I need to take this. I'll be back. Ah Nick, hello. Leave Trump alone. What is this other thing?

Well, okay. He didn't even look at me. Did he see that? Just spoke to you. Didn't even look at me. He doesn't even look at me anymore, Jules. He's never quite trusted me ever since that time I lost your shit about the state of the planet live on air and then started crying thanks Sam and then forced you into anger management thanks Sam anyway what is your thing

my what the thing your thing oh okay here's the pitch it's a phone in show groundbreaking i don't think anyone's doing those these days are they shut up it's a phone in show i already host a phone in show Jules i don't know if you know that which is are they? Shut up, it's a phone-in show. I already host a phone-in show Jules, I don't know if you know that. Which is why you might be good for it, shut up. This is a different radio phone-in show to your radio phone-in show, okay? So we partner with a US radio station in one of the swing states. We take over their entire station for an evening, which is their afternoon slot. We get real Americans phoning in, not British Americans moved here all the way from Ohio

to settle in Oxbridge. Real Americans gun loving, abortion hating. Fat. Yes the real America. Get some full-on MAGA queuing on stop the steal granny shaggers. Yeah really fat ones. Okay so real Americans phone in they tell us why they're voting for Trump, and then I get to tell them a new one. I love it. I love it. It's simple. It's just good radio jewels. Roger, we haven't told you about this, okay? I haven't mentioned your name to him yet. Right, okay. Knock, knock. Okay, so firstly, stop with Trump. There's too much Trump. There's enough Trump to clear a swimming bath changing room. Jonathan.

He's looking at me. Too much Trump. Stick to what you know. Stick to the domestic stuff for now. What, fucking wind farms and prison numbers? Exactly. Dull. Just the way we like it here at Radio 4. Secondly, good news, Jules. If you can keep the muzzle on pie here, then I think I've been thinking about that thing you pitched me this morning and I think we should do it yes I mean well done Jules for whatever it is you're talking about. And I took it upon myself just had a word with Nick Robinson. Oh for fuck's sake. I think he's the perfect fit don't you and he's a

definitely maybe. Oh because I hadn't actually... Nick Robinson. Nick could work but listen I actually thought Jonathan... Did Jules mention what we're doing? We're partnering with an American radio station, KMW6Y500. PWR900. And we're going to be taking over their afternoon phone-in show in the States. It'll be afternoon there and evening here, because of the time difference. You've thought of everything. Nick Robinson, interesting choice, safe pair of hands, I suppose, but Jules? I'm actually not sure he would be that

keen. He might think a phone in shows beneath him. Well I don't think he'd think that. Perhaps I'll talk to him directly Roger. Oh don't you worry, I reckon I'll be able to persuade him to do it over a gourmet burger and kitchen burger with a side order of that famous Roger Charm? Yeah, yeah, that'll persuade him. It's all very well you sitting here, Jonathan, in your ivory shoes, moaning non-stop about Donald Trump and listening to people phone in from Rygate. But to talk to and understand the needs of actual bona fide redneck yanks, real Americans, that's gonna take real skill. Ooh, yanks. Is that racially improper? No, but I think redneck is.

Sorry to put you on the reserve bench for this one, JP, but I think Nick's the right choice this time around. Now is not the time for firebrand. We don't need firebrand. Time to get a bit more balance and impartiality. What are we trying to balance here? Twats on the end of a spoon? Excuse me? Six months ago this election was balanced. You had an old bloke who could barely

string a sentence together versus an old bloke who could barely string a sentence together. Balance. Then Trump got shot and Biden got Covid, which tells you everything you need to know. But now it's all to play for. You have a convicted felon and fraudster who pays off porn stars with campaign finances versus a former state prosecutor now it's getting interesting can i give you a note just a little note you are all one note it's just noise it's all one note what's the word firebrand? So fingers crossed for Nick Robinson Hey, I mean what the fuck was all that about out of nowhere He suddenly turns into the Emperor from Star Wars

Does he get off telling me who's hosting my own program that I'm fucking producing one note fucking cunt. Oh, okay That's now that's new. Sorry. It's fine. I'm really sorry. It's fine. You're alright. Take a seat. Take a seat. Fucking program. Sorry that was really unprofessional. Welcome to my world honestly. It's great fun down here in the moral low ground. Just take a breath. Fuck's sake. Sam? Shall I get you a CBDT? Yes please yeah. Oh and can I get a um actually nothing for me right now. I'm really sorry. Have you actually met me? There's nothing to apologize for. It's fine. He is a cunt. Look he's just doing his, you know, the swinging his big sweaty... Swinging his big balls... Grey low swinging old man balls thing. You know, swinging them all around the building like he does every few months to make it look like he actually does something around here. Just waving his

gonads around every inch of broadcasting house like one of those priests waving the gold thing with the burning incense so everyone gets a little whiff of his musky knackers. Oh, we should just fuck off. How long? Has he worked it? He's a fucking relic, Jules. He's been here since BBC Choice. You remember that? Of course you don't. The fucking Nick Robinson. Again, story of my life, always pipped at the post

by someone slightly better qualified. A lot better qualified, let's be honest. Look, Jules, choose your battles, eh? Nick Robinson, he's a fucking pro. I've heard him go full Jonathan Pye on a number of occasions. He'd be great. That's not the point. It's not Roger's job to allocate presenters.

It's my job. And he shouldn't be doing my job. And he shouldn't be telling me how to do my job. I bet he's not doing Ben's job or telling Jason how to do his job or telling fucking Bill or Craig or Des who's reading Book at Fucking Bedtime this week but he's telling me Jules. I was about to say feminist bollocks but then you're right, he wouldn't tell him what to do would he?

I don't think Nick Robinson will do it anyway, he's better than some middle of the road late evening phone in that no one listens to. You're the man for this job, Jonathan. Yeah, funny. I'll appeal to his ego, is what I'm saying. Tell him there's something better around the corner. It's beneath him. I'll just dangle a panorama in his face. Panorama? What about me? Dangle something in my face? I'm dangling this in your face, aren't I? It's not panorama though, is it?

You're not panorama, Jonathan. Yeah, I know. I'll just tell him not to do it. Money's dog shit anyway. Brilliant. But what if you can't persuade him? What if he wants to do it and you can't persuade him not to? Because I really want to do this now Jules. If I can't persuade him I'll just put laxatives in his coffee or something. Good girl. Woman. Human really if you think about it. Good human.

I'm in man. Come on let's do this. Let's make this happen. Right one condition. Hernando's? Shut up about Trump. How about this? Okay, if you can go the entire rest of the show without mentioning him once... Who? Donald Trump? I'm serious.

Mention his name just once and I will not go into battle for you, okay? Deal. I'm not shaking your hand. You've spattered it. Oh, Sam, can you get me a Kleenex please? Five seconds! We're back! OK, it seems I have accidentally mislaid my gauntlet and it has been picked up by a worrying number of you.

I suggested we didn't have the taste anymore for state-sanctioned murder but I was wrong. I clearly misjudged the mood of the nation. Pete from Eccersfield says, bring back chemical castration for nonces. A lot of heart emojis for that one. Bring back hanging for treason and arson in a royal dockyard. Odd. And Carol says her father used to use a cat-o-nine tails to discipline her and her twin sister and she says that they both turned out totally fine. I doubt you did love, if I'm honest, a cat of nine tails. It's like nine bits of rope on the end of a stick.

Sailors used to whip the mutineers with it. You see a lot of modern variations of it in BDSM porn. So, here's a caller who believes the right to own a gun makes you safer and that we should take a leaf out of America's book when it comes to gun ownership. Go ahead caller. One thing America's got right is the right to protect your family. Knife crime is a real issue. London is essentially a no-go area because of all the knife crime. Well that's not true because I live there but carry on.

You want to come round where I live at 11 o'clock at night? Because I'll show you, mate. I'll show you drug dealers and young black kids with their blades and young Asian kids with their stunk weed and all them Chinese gangs with all of their... With their textbooks. Look, should we keep the racial slurs to the bare minimum? Now, if you had guns, you wouldn't have a knife crime problem. The NRA claims that guns makes US citizens safer. They say instead of more gun control, just give the teachers the guns.

Arm the teachers! Lock and load, it's double maths. Listen, if Mr Carmichael had had an automatic rifle, I might have passed geography. And I definitely wouldn't have set fire to his car. Thanks for your call. Back after this. Around the UK have set fire to his car. Thanks for your call. Back after this. Around the UK. You just mentioned his name.

No I didn't. Yes you did. You said after the second failed assassination attempt on Donald Trump. It's hard isn't it? No more Trump. So six minutes till the end of the show, that professor guy will be your last call. The professor? A fellow scholar like myself. 2-2 in Media Studies in Manchester Poly. You ever been to America, Sam? No, but I'd like to. Don't bother, it's shit. Full of Americans.

Fat Americans. Can you stop saying fat, please? Why, what you're supposed to say these days, clinically heavy. Listen, I'm all for body positivity and if you want an easy way to feel body positive, go to America. British fat people are just fat. American fat people are fucking fat. You know, those people with ankles so wide you wonder if they actually still need feet. Well just don't go on about it, so no more Trump, right? Back in three minutes!

Great if you get this American thing here. I'd love it. I'd love it. A chance to really lay into all those I'm thinking of voting for Trump nutjobs. Every single last 70 to 75 million of them. I don't think he's that bad. To what? I'm just saying. I think Trump's alright. How do you mean? He's alright. I don't see what the big problem is. There's loads of reasons why you'd vote for Trump.

Being a dick doesn't necessarily make you a bad president. So, what do you mean? Well, yeah, Trump's a dick. Sure, But so is Keir Starmer. They all are. Yes, but they're very different types of dick. There are all different types of dick, Sam. I'm just saying, if I was an American, I'd think about voting for Trump. I'm sorry. Why not?

Why not? Fuck off, Sam. Oi! Okay, sorry, fine. Okay, but it's not why not, it's why. Why would you vote for him? Why would you vote for her? Because she's not him! That's der not why not, it's why. Why would you vote for him? Why would you vote for her? Because she's not him! That's deranged.

No it isn't! Okay, okay. Why would you vote for Trump? He's different. He's not your usual establishment bollocks. He's a very successful businessman. He bankrupted a casino! That's almost impossible!

He's a hustler. He's a grifter. He's not the usual bullshitting politician. Not the usual one, that's for sure. He's the American dream and she's just some solicitor or something. Ex-state prosecutor and vice president of the United States. Exactly! Offering the same old establishment bullshit.

What the hell does she know about someone like me? She came from a working class immigrant household. I mean that might resonate. And she's a woman? Yes, that too. A black woman. Actually, yes, yes, she's a black woman. A brown woman. She could be your mum. I don't give a shit if she's a woman. Or she's black or she's brown. What does she stand for? What's a message? Talking about aspirations, hopes and dreams? That's not a message. That isn't anything.

She just stands for not being Trump. Trump stands for Trump. That guy took a bullet for his country. And libtards like you are just like, ooo orange man bad. Oooo libtards? It means... Yeah I know what it means Sam. Libtard. Are you serious? You started following Lawrence Fox on TikTok, have you? Taking online fapping lessons from Andrew Tate. What's got into the boy? Seriously mate, libtard is not appropriate language for the workplace.

What is a libtard? It's not very nice, Jules. Yeah, but what is it? Well, you would definitely be a libtard, Jules. Definitely. I mean, to them. Yeah, but what is it? It's not very nice, Jules.

It means liberal retard. Libtard. That's deeply unpleasant. Yeah, like a woki window liquor. Like you say, not very pleasant. Right, ten seconds. Sam, no more Lib-tards. Jonathan, no more Trump.

OK? Sam, this conversation is to be continued, my friend. And in the meantime, I'm going to send you some literature about why Trump is a threat to the stability of the planet and a pamphlet about far-right online grooming. And we're back. We're just at the back end of the show here. But listen, I fear we may have gone off course. Tonight, as with most nights this week, talk has been dominated by the Republican candidate.

With the American election dominating the headlines, it's easy to forget that this year has been the biggest year ever for democracy. Half the world's population will go to the polls this year. Democracy is in rude health. This year we've already had elections in Bangladesh, Pakistan, not exactly free and fair elections in any way, shape or form. Bad example. Russia went to the polls earlier this year. That was a real nail-biter wasn't it? Close call but luckily Vladimir Putin's nearest opponent wasn't on the ballot and died in a gulag of sudden death syndrome. Which just goes to show in a healthy democracy anything can happen. And of course social media has played a large part in deciding these elections with TikTok often being a

big factor in the battle to win votes online. TikTok, of course, owned by well-known democracy, China. But obviously right now all eyes are on America, so something a little bit different. We've got an actual expert on the line, possibly a first for this show, a real expert. So we're now going to be talking about how the American system works, and particularly constitutions. We have Dr, sorry, Professor Michael Treadforth, Professor of Constitutional History and Law at Yale, Yale University, wow.

It's York, it's York University. Right, well that's alright, you'll get there. So explain to me, what is a constitution and how do they work? Well a constitution is a list of rules that underpin the values and laws of a country. In the United Kingdom we have an unwritten constitution. Well because with something that important why bother writing it down? Well it's sort of the point really. We literally make it up as we go along.

Having a flexible unwritten constitution means that we are adaptable, that we move with history. In the United Kingdom we have what's called a constitutional monarchy. And what does that mean exactly? Nobody really knows if we're being totally honest. Okay, talk to us a bit about the American constitution because they love that, don't they? They absolutely love that. James Madison was a genius really. The constitution is an incredible document and so bold in its ambition. The American dream that we hear so much about, it's essentially written into the Constitution. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The pursuit of happiness. Such an incredibly powerful statement of intent to base a country on.

America does seem very divided at the moment. There seems to be very little middle ground. Why do you think that is? America has a sort of beautiful schizophrenia to it. I think if you study the history of America's foundation, you see that there was a rift from the very beginning between the Federalist and the Anti-Federalist. And the Federalist want to be ruled from Washington. They want a centralized government in Washington, basically dictating laws and regulations for the entire country.

Whereas the Anti-Federalists regard America as 50 separate governments, each autonomous in themselves. And the Anti-Federalist in the present election would be Trump, right? Because, I mean, he says he's going to reclaim democracy from Washington, which sounds a bit terrifying to me, but it's odd because devolution of power in this country is seen as liberal. Scottish and Welsh devolution, it's kind of seen as progressive, whereas in America... Whereas in America it's not, because there's a fear that the southern states will vote

in favour of non-progressive issues. Abortion, being one of those. Nevertheless, you can make the argument that because the majority of people in those states have voted to repeal abortion that it's actually a greater exercise of democracy. Well that's us liberals all over. We love democracy unless it doesn't go our way. Fascinating stuff. Unfortunately we are out of time. Thank you professor. That's us done here for another

night of scintillating chat. Some final words from me though. Look, I've been told to try and stay away from the US election tonight, particularly the Republican candidate. You know, that's a tall order when the planet's most powerful democracy is about to go to the polls. A lot is at stake. A democracy that is all but ground to a halt, failing to help those it is supposed to serve amid rampant disinformation and rising anger. Either Trump wins and dismantles America's democratic institutions as he has promised he will do, or Harris wins and Trump refuses to concede and we have a repeat of January the 6th, perhaps worse. Either way, American democracy will likely be tested to its limits. And if I was to make a prediction, I can't see how Kamala Harris wins this election. At his disposal, the Republican candidate has huge chunks of the media in the palm of his hand.

He's got the might of a kowtowed Republican party, with the remnants of QAnon now splintered into a thousand pieces. Out there like a virus across the Gooniverse, where nothing is true. Fueled by anarchic tech bro capitalists like real life Bond villain Elon Musk, stirring the Twitter shitstorm, who looks to want the end of democracy so that people like him can rule the world. And the end of democracy seems enticing to the millions and millions of Americans for

whom democracy doesn't serve and truthfully never really has. The Republicans, to me, look unstoppable and all because the Democrats have yet to find a way of ending him once and for all by simply offering something concrete as an alternative. Four years to hone the simple, truthful message that Trump puts self-interest above the law, which is a far more powerful message. They're failing to win the arguments on the real, simple stuff. For Americans, this is a choice about under which president will my life be less of a struggle And if she's just more of the same and he's gonna rip up the rule book once again, then once again Maybe they've got nothing to lose

I suppose what I'm saying is the minute you think Donald Trump can't win is the moment he does Damn, I just said his name. Anyway, I've been told that's it. And look, plenty of coverage of the American election across the BBC. Tomorrow we're back to earth with a bump here on Call Jonathan Pie with this month's farming special. Well, I think that went OK. Listen, I only accidentally said his name once.

Not bad. I'll allow it. Knock knock. So I listened in. Less firebrand, more balanced, I'd say, Roger. Yes. Bit dull. You said you wanted dull. Not that dull. Just a small note. Oh, another one. You are occasionally in danger sometimes of becoming a bit of a pastiche.

A pastiche of what? Yourself. Well, that's three therapy sessions in and of itself. Well, it's lucky the BBC are happy to pay for them. Do we have a problem, Roger? You and me? Not that I'm aware of. Good. Look, Roger, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring for this American phone-in thing, okay? Oh, Roger.

Oh, right. How about Jonathan for this American special thing? I do honestly think he's the right choice. Sorry, pipped at the post. Almost the bridesmaid, eh? Nick Robertson has said yes, he ran straight back. I'm meeting him now to hammer out the details. He's got some really interesting ideas. Oh, and of course, Jules, you'll get a say as well.

Good show. Wanker. Wanker. Sorry Jonathan, there's nothing I can do. Bicicodal. What? Bicicodal. It's a laxative. It'll unblock a horse. I'm not going to lace Nick Robinson's coffee with laxatives, Jonathan. If he shits himself live on air I could go to prison.

Yeah, but if you do it'll mean I'm the one sat in the hot seat. Yes, and the hot seat is hot because Nick Robinson has done a steaming shit on it. I'll just get a different chair. I'm not doing it. What was it again? Bicicodal. Bicicodal. Yeah, or, or, or senacot if you want something a bit less aggressive.

You fancy a pint? Hi everyone. Hey, that's Marianna Spring. I'm Sarah Smith. And we are a couple of the hosts of America. And right now, as you might imagine, it's not very quiet over in Podcast HQ. We've been keeping ourselves very busy. Yeah, because the two of us, along with Justin Webb

and Anthony Zerker, are now getting together a few times a week as we chat through trying to untangle all the twists and turns and developments in the US presidential election. And it would be fair to say there have been untangle all the twists and turns and developments in the US presidential election. And it would be fair to say there have been quite a lot of twists and turns already. We've also been chatting a lot about what happens on social media, my favourite topic. If you're

interested in US politics, you want to understand what is going on, then I think you might really like our podcast. Which is simply called America. You can listen to it on BBC Sounds. Until then, we'll see you later.