Comedy of the Week - It's A Fair Cop

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

In this week's case Alfie turns bounty hunter and goes on the hunt for a wanted man (an infamous bike thief).Join Alfie and his audience of sworn-in deputies as they decide how to get their man.Written and presented by Alfie Moore Script Editor: Will Ing Production Co-ordinator: Katie Baum Producer: Sam HolmesAn EcoAudio Certified Production A BBC Studios Audio Production

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. As women, our life stages come with unique risk factors. Like when our estrogen levels drop during menopause, causing the risk of heart disease to go up. Know your risks. Visit heartandstroke.ca. BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts. Hello, my name is Alfie Moore and welcome to It's a Fair Call. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE The show where you, the audience, is going to face the same policing dilemmas

that I faced in today's Real Case. Now, this is an interactive show, and so we're going to begin with a vocal exercise to loosen you up. When I raise my arms, what I'd like you to do is to join in and sing.....da-da-da-la-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da Erica, would you like to help the show out? I can try. OK, that's good of you. Really appreciate that, Erica. What I'd like you to do is go something like... Ah!

Will you have a go, Erica? Ah-ya-ya! Oh, that's perfect. A round of applause for Erica. APPLAUSE Today's show is about police powers in respect of bail, a term used in reference to the temporary release of an accused person. I'd originally planned to enhance this show with a well-known piece of music, but the BBC said we couldn't because we'd have to pay a licence fee.

You can finish that joke yourselves if you want to. So we've tweaked the musical delivery slightly, but you'll probably not even notice. Let's start by understanding a bit more about bail in English law financial guarantees rarely feature in a prisoner's release But in countries like the USA release on bail is often reliant on cold hard cash bringing in associated specialists such as bail bond agents and bounty hunters agents and bounty hunters. That music license doesn't feel so expensive now does it? I'm sure that haunting rendition conjures up images of gunslingers like Butch Cassidy, Rooster Coburn and Billy the Kid. A more contemporary name you may be familiar with is Dwayne Lee Chapman aka

Dog the Bounty Hunter who's still tracking down felons at the age of 71 which is a lot in dog years. In this week's Real Case I saddle up the trusty old police Ford Focus and go on the hunt for a wanted man. As bail is in effect a promise to attend somewhere on a given time and date, we asked our studio audience if you've ever broken a promise or have been late for something important. So we start with people who've been late for something and this one's from Jules. It's very difficult to say, I'm late for things every day and I don't feel awkward about it.

What were the consequences? Difficult to find a friend who is willing to come with me this evening. What does Debbie tell us? What have you been late for, Debbie? I was three hours late picking up my daughter from rainbows. I only noticed I had a child missing when I did the head count at bedtime.

They were great. Give yourself a round of applause. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Applause Time then to swear you all in as audience cops.

Please all raise your right hand, repeat after me. You're Nick Sunshine. You're Nick Sunshine. Right, you're all cops for the duration of the show. Time to begin today's real case, which starts with me on an early shift. I ate early. Usually wake up at 8am, which is a bit of an issue, as by that time I've already been at work two hours

with little or no recollection of how I actually got there. My tasking was an overnight prisoner in the cells, Benji, who was a cycle thief. Hands up anyone that's ever had their bicycles stolen? Quite a few, I'm not surprised. 77,000 reported bike thefts nationally in the last year. Metropolitan police figures show that although violent crime has been rising, cycle theft is down 14%. In other words, it's now much safer to

go out on your bike here in London as long as you don't stop peddling. Nearly 1,200 Boris bikes were stolen last year, almost one for each of his kids. Back to my detainee Benji and the circumstances were that the night before a passing taxi driver disturbed someone attempting to grind off a bicycle lock at Scunthorpe railway station. The would-be thief did a runner and Benji was stopped by police out of breath a couple of streets away with a still warm battery operated angle grinder found in a runner and Benji was stopped by police out of breath a couple of streets away with a still warm battery operated angle grinder found in a nearby garden. Although the bike wasn't actually taken there was damage to the lock and Benji was arrested for attempt theft of cycle.

Time to interview Benji. First the rapport building phase. He was a board 19 year old and I was a grumpy middle-aged cop who'd been up since 5am and so we skipped the rapport building phase. Benji offered a no comment response to everything I asked. I'm sure he didn't mean to be rude, it was just business. I scanned him for visual clues. Often motives for acquisitive crime are glaringly obvious but Benji showed no apparent signs of hardship or substance misuse. The truth was that he'd fallen in with the wrong crowd.

Unfortunately the wrong crowd in question were his immediate family. He now lived with his grandmother who took in Benji and his younger brother Ashley after their mother died of a drugs overdose and father, a notorious villain, was sent to prison. If you believe adverse childhood experiences determine or restrict our development as adults, then Benji never really stood a chance. I like to think that I'm an exception to the rule

of the past dictating the future. After all, I was once an illiterate counsellor's kid and now I'm a polished, articulate, middle-class BBC presenter. LAUGHTER You bastards. LAUGHTER As Benji is denying the offence, none of the out-of-court disposals, such as a formal caution or community payback, are available to us, perhaps a sponsored charity cycle ride.

LAUGHTER I presented the evidence to the custody sergeant who asked, did the witness see his face or any distinctive clothing? Afraid not. Well what would you like to happen? Audience Cops for a decision three options. Should we ask to release Benji NFA? That's no further action. Or charge him with attempted theft or carry out further inquiries. Over to you audience cops. Hands up those who want to release Benji. No further action. Hello sir, who are you? I'm John. Hello John, you

want to release Benji, can I ask you why? Social equity. Social equity? Yeah, let him Okay. So, by social equity, you mean he's at a tough start and you don't think it's proportionate to take any formal action? Yes. And it was my bike. Anybody going to charge Benji? Nobody's going to charge Benji. Who's for further inquiries? Who's for further inquiries? The rest of you. So let me talk to a further inquiry then. What's your name?

Marcy. Have you got any thoughts about further inquiries? I don't know really. Okay. Thoughts about further inquiries? Um... I don't know really. Okay, what do you do, Marcy? I work in the Metropolitan Police. Well, at least you've explained your last answer. What's your job in the Met, Marcy?

Detective Constable. Oh! Lovely. Okay. So what about the angle grinder, Marcy? What about the, we found a piece of evidence in a nearby garden. Can you think of any investigative opportunities? We'll have a look at it for forensics, potentially. Forensics? Thank you, Mar Now, now we're talking forensic. Every contact leaves a trace is a mantra

of every forensic officer along with, oh no, I don't work after 10 o'clock at night. If I seize Benji's clothing and it contained tiny transfer metal particles via the angle grinder that match the bike lock, jobs are goodden. But that forensic testing would have cost implications. Is that worth the spend when the bicycle was never actually taken? Where's me spenders?

Who thinks it's worth spending the money? Let's talk to this lady with the... Is that a red scarf, madam? Hello. What's your name? Barbara. Barbara. You think it's worth the spend?

Can I ask for your thinking? It's then preventative for any future possible thefts by that suspect. Okay, well I like your answer, you think intervention is important in this case to stop him committing further crime. I think that's a good answer. The actual answer I would say would depend on a couple of things. The value of the bike he was attempting to steal, which was a couple hundred quid, but more importantly Benji at 19 already has several previous sanctions and is classed as a young adult prolific offender. Surely it's important to take the opportunity to use the justice system to break that chain

of criminality. But the forensic would take time and we should now consider releasing the accused on pre-charge police bail, which is a promise, sometimes conditional to return back to the police station. However, a problem arose where in complex cases, suspects were being bailed, re-bailed continuously for months, sometimes years. And the Home Office proposed major changes, including taking bail authority away from custody sergeants and introducing

an initial 28 day time limit. And everyone I knew in policing said, that's too restrictive, impractical, unworkable, the system will collapse. But we all know politicians know more about policing than the police and ratified the changes in the Policing and Crime Act 2017 and then the system collapsed. That's a bit harsh, it worked out fine so long as you weren't a victim, a suspect or a police officer. The number of suspects on bail plummeted as instead they were released under

investigation which in effect means they could walk away with no restrictions leaving victims and witnesses unprotected. Sometimes with devastating consequences as highlighted by the Centre for Women's Justice. In 2022 the police, crime, sentencing and courts like once again reformed police bail pretty much back to where it started, with custody sergeants once again empowered to grant bail for periods of up to three months. It was like a five-year game of snakes and ladders without the ladders. Or a game of Monopoly where every square read,

do not go directly to jail ever. Back to Benji and he was bailed, during which time the forensic examination was able to confirm metal dust on his clothing matched the cycle lock and the CPS, the Crown Prosecution Service, authorised a charge of attempt theft of the bicycle. Six weeks later, it's 2pm, I'm poised at Scunthorpe police station waiting for Benji to answer his bail but he doesn't show. He's now 15

minutes late. Audience, cops, what should we do? Three options. Go around to the address with a battering ram. Circulate him as a wanted person. Ring up and ask Benji, are you going to come and answer your bail please? Where are me rammers? No, we've got no rammers in the room. All right, that's fair enough. The reason I ask is that the Metropolitan Police take breach of bail very seriously.

I mean, they did sit outside the Ecuadorian Embassy for five years waiting for Julian Assange to pop his head out. No, honestly, a met cop I knew at so much overtime sat outside the Ecuadorian Embassy that when he had an extension built, he named it the Assange Suite. Who's going to circulate his details and stick up his Wanted poster? HE SINGS LAUGHTER

Who's going to circulate his Wanted? He's not turned up for his bail, Benji. OK, got one or two hands up, thank you. And who's going to ring his mobile? Put your hands up if you're going to ring his mobile. Lots of hands. Hello. Hello. Hello.

What's your name? Bella. Bella, you're going to give him a ring. Can I ask for your thinking there, Bella? I don't know, give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he will turn up. Maybe he'll turn up, give him the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you.

Yeah, why not? Why make it any more complicated than that? On the phone, he's very apologetic, says he's forgotten, I believe him. Fifteen minutes later he's at the front counter. Yes I do check to see if he's come on a bicycle. I formally charge him with the attempt theft of the cycle and he's granted post-charge bail. Which means that this time Benji is given a time and date to appear at the local magistrates' court. However, given his previous history, put your hand up, audience cops, if you

think we should ask for bail conditions to be applied. Hello, what's your name? My name's Mike. Mike, what are you thinking? Well, he hasn't got a pretty very impressive track record of turning up when he's expected, so in order to help him out, make sure he does turn up so it doesn't backfire and make sure he does turn up in the first place. Yeah, yeah, a bit of insurance. I like your answer, Mike. Thank you. Have you got any thoughts on what type of bail conditions, any ideas of bail conditions

you can put on him? Well, I'm not an expert, I must say. I'm not a financial penalty. Yeah, we wouldn't go for that, but it might be around his behaviour. So we might, for example, say you barred from going within 100 metres of the railway station where he committed his crimes or stopped walking about with power tools up your jumper. Stop pinching bikes.

But has anybody got any other idea of potential bail conditions? Curfew. People are thinking about curfew. Thank you. And the sergeant agreed he did put curfew conditions in place Meaning Benji would now have to stop in of an evening and get his kicks in the virtual world grand theft bicycle I Submitted the court file job done until a few weeks later over the Easter Bank holiday weekend. I was working half nights, 6pm to 4am. Horrible, and exhausting.

And at an hour's sleep I was having a house alarm fitted, at least I could do, seeing as I spent most of my working life advising everybody else to get one. Good example of how foggy brained you get working shifts when the alarm guy says pick a four digit code and punch the numbers in and I spent two minutes just staring at the screen. He thought I'd lost the plot. Four numbers, just pick four numbers. After much deliberation I opted for the numbers that only I knew.

My dog's birthday. Obviously he also knew. But Zeus had signed the Official Secrets Act so he'd never blab. I ended up rushing to work exhausted only to find out once again we were short staffed. Amazing how often people are sick when evening shifts fall on a weekend. We had one of our response team nicknamed Travolta because he always had Saturday night fever. The sergeant threw me a breach of bail arrest package. The name on the cover jumped out from the page, Benji Taylor.

Turns out that when Benji appeared for his plea hearing for the cycle theft, the magistrates bailed him. Kept his curfew conditions in place and to ensure compliance ordered Benji to wear an ankle tag an electronic monitoring device that operate either through a radio or GPS signal. Benji had breached his curfew by leaving his home address between the hours of 7pm and 7am and the

monitoring company were alerted. It's not an infallible system. A few years ago G4S inadvertently fitted an ankle tag to the offender's prosthetic leg. And... The fully privatised offender monitoring system has been shrouded in controversy since its inception, with allegations of overcharging and criminal investigations of fraud against companies such as Serco and G4S. Or even caught out charging the taxpayer to monitor

the movements of people who were deceased. I have been on scene guard at serious incidents and I can say from experience that monitoring the movements of dead people is not that difficult. But it's not all negative. Some would argue that these devices allow people the freedom to largely carry out their normal lives. In 2005, footballer Jermaine Pennant was bailed for drink driving and ordered to wear an ankle tag. He continued playing Premier League football

for Birmingham City whilst wearing the electronic monitoring device and scored three goals. It was almost four but G4S ruled one offside. In Benji's case, now that the monitoring company have informed the police, our role is to re-arrest him and put him before the next available court. We pull up at Benji's address, his grand's house. Grand answer the door and told me Benji wasn't there. He'd moved out, didn't know where. Colour me cynical but I'm not sure I believe her and think that Benji might be inside.

I'd like to go in and have a look. Audience, cops, any ideas how we might play it? Hello, who are you please? Debbie. Debbie, what are you thinking Debbie? Well, couldn't you ask to use the loo or something? Ask to use the loo, they always do that on the telly don't they? And then they have a nosey upstairs and find some really vital clue in one of the bedrooms.

Any other ideas? Could you phone him? I think that's a pretty good idea, it's one of the first. Any other ideas? Could you phone him? I think that's a very good idea. It's one of the first things we would have done. Yes, I've got his phone number. I don't know if he's not answering. Anybody going to ask? Knowing the trade is a search by consent from a person entitled to grant entry. That's entitled so that doesn't mean someone who happened to open the door like the tradesman, the babysitter, or on one occasion the child itself. It was a trade-off. She said she'd let me in, but in exchange I had to watch three back-to-back

episodes of Peppa Pig. That's not what really happened. The door was opened by a chubby cheeked cherub about four years old, facing me, a six foot copper in size, twelve boots. I saw her bottom lip stop to tremble and she said, hello. I crouched down to air level and looked into those trusting baby blue eyes and said reassuringly,

hello, it's all right. Is your daddy home? And are there any class A drugs in the house? What I said to Benji's gran was I'd like to satisfy myself that Benji's not here may I come in and have a look round. I even went as far as complaining with Coby of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act by seeking written consent if you're happy for me to come in and have a look please sign my notebook to that effect. The problem is if you make it clear that you're asking, very often people say no and she did. I asked Gran why Benji moved out. She may have physically kicked

him out after all, took his key away. He then couldn't possibly comply with his curfew. Gran explained that had a big row over his new girlfriend and Benji slammed out. I advised that she needs to get word out to Benji to tell him to hand himself in because this is his bail address so the police will keep coming back. Is that fair enough to keep returning audience cops? Anyone have a problem? Anyone have a problem with keep coming back? Hello thanks for joining in what's your name? Hello I'm Charles like the king but not the king. You do sound a bit like him, Charles, to be honest with you. So, what are you thinking, Charles?

This is an incredible waste of police money. Yeah? At the time. Expand on that, Charles. Which bit? Looking for him for breaching his bail or processing to start with? I'm just thinking, well, I've had about seven bikes nicked and I've been very sad about all of them. But, you know, he didn't even steal a bike. There are so many other crimes unsolved and the police are using so much time and using their resources to chase him. I guess the counter-argument

would be that this is a 19 year old who's already a prolific offender, should we not try and address that behavior before he goes completely off the rails and then we've got a bigger problem that'll eat up more resources, I guess that's the argument. I guess so. I suspect that he'll be in trouble again for something worse. Maybe it's more practical to wait. All right. So your problem is based, Charles, on the fact that you think this is a waste,

a waste in police time, we've got better things to do. Anybody else got a different reason for not coming back to grandmother's house? Hello, what's your name? Q. Q, what are you thinking Q? If he has moved out like fully a dozen intend to come back and the police just keep coming and knocking on her door, isn't that emotional distress of some sort?

Well, yeah, I'm sure it is quite distressing, no doubt. And she's approaching 70, and to be honest, I felt for her. She's got a son in prison and she's trying to bring up two wayward teenage boys. It must have been exhausting. But this is still Benji's official bail address. That means I agree with those that said we need to keep returning. Maybe leave it a couple of hours, come back at 11pm. Is everybody all right with that? Okay, lots of people nodding. What about 1am then? No, anybody still in the game coming back at 1am? Anybody still coming back at 1am? Alright, 2am, where do you draw the line?

What does the law say? Well according to the Police and Crime Evidence Act, code B6.2, searches must be made at a reasonable hour unless this might frustrate the purpose of the search. What does that mean? No idea. And what even is a reasonable hour? I've now turned 50. If anybody knocks on the door after 7pm I'm horrified. Who the hell's that at this hour? We leave Grand's and visit other addresses for Benji, his girlfriend, other associates. Always the same response, we don't know where he is. I knock on a few doors either side and say, if you see him, give us a ring, will you?

At 3.30am, a call came in about Benji's whereabouts. It's from a very reliable source, Beryl the Nableard Watch Coordinator. Well, clearly Mr. Vocation is a bounty hunter. LAUGHTER Beryl lived across the road from Benji's girlfriend and had just seen him turn up and go inside. Beryl was amazing. She clocked everything that was going on in the road all day, never left her lookout posts and yet still somehow missed the Hermes delivery guy that called. A short time later we were knocking on the door asking for Benji. He's not here, assures girlfriend unconvincingly.

Can I come in have a look? No. Audience cops, do we have reasonable grounds for a search without consent this time? Everybody thinks we do. Yes, I'd say so. We've got grounds to believe somebody's seen Benji go in and not come out. But no search required as Benji appeared at the door and said, come in officer. He cut a sad figure, seemed upset, I've messed up. It's my girlfriend Ava's birthday and I was desperate to see her but my gran doesn't like her, wouldn't let her come round. Let me stay here and

I promise I'll turn myself in tomorrow. Henew has added that although the police are legally obliged to get bail offenders to court within 24 hours, Sundays don't count. And the following day was Easter Monday with very limited special courts open. Last decision audience cops, if I arrest Benji he will spend the next day and half in a police cell waiting for the courts to open. Who says our lines lock him up now? Hello, sir. What's your name? My name's Bernie. Bernie? You're gonna lock him up Bernie? What you're thinking? I think he's a repeat offender. I don't trust him. I think he'll just abscond again. He's lying.

Is he in love Bernie? Haven't you ever been in love? Who's gonna do the, exercise a little discretion and say it's Easter, a time for forgiveness, new beginnings? What would Jesus say? Let's talk to the lady at the back then. What's your name? Kamila. No, hang on a minute.

Is that Charles you're sitting next to? I think it's disproportionate to arrest him immediately and put him in the cells for a day and a half. You think it's disproportionate? He's broken the law? Yes, he's broken the law and he may well end up in prison at the end, but putting him in a cell over Easter, not the right thing. And the answer is, it's a very easy decision,

he is coming in. The piece of paper in my hand say that if he breaches his bail conditions, his court bail conditions, arrest him, bring him before the next available court, it doesn't say only if you want to, only if he's not in love, only if it's not a bank holiday. The courts are far more powerful than the police,

they tell us what to do. And I also ask you to bear in mind that Benji was given his chance. In fact, Benji had been given lots and lots of chances. He knew he'd be remanded into police custody if he breached his court bail curfew and he breached it anyway. We booked Benji in, I completed the breach of bail file and he was remanded into the police cells until after the bank holiday weekend. When I finally arrived home, it was 5am on Sunday morning. Good news is that it was still dark enough to feel like night time.

Bad news, I couldn't remember my dog's birthday. Set the alarm off and woke up the entire street. The alarm was a really high-pitched, annoying whiny sound. Ay-ya-ya-ya! That's it, yeah. LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE downed. That's it, yeah. As for Benji, I love a happy ending but this is real life and Benji didn't stop pinching things and just like his dad, eventually ended up in prison. Although his younger brother, Ashley,

never even picked up a criminal conviction and he's doing very well for himself, but his granny's very proud. A little reminder for me is never give up on people. They'll keep surprising you. That's all for this week. Time for me to ride off into the Scunthorpe sunset. Until next time, so long from it. Thanks for listening to the Comedy of the Week podcast from BBC Radio 4. If you want

more check out the Friday Night Comedy podcast featuring the News Quiz, The Now Show and Dead Ringers. From BBC Radio 4, Scott Lidster, you've directed another terrible film, The Fifteenth, in as many years. When are you going to stop? No room. As soon as they told me that they were setting up a commission on race and ethnic disparities I said well as long as Tim Tim Tim Tim and Tim are on the team you'll have everything sorted before the tea and biscuits arrive. No room. Jack wasn't familiar with my BAFTA award-winning style of walking around my guest's house

before the interview starts and saying uncomfortably forced and awkward boring things. Michael Spicer, no room. It's a sketch show with lots and lots and lots and lots of Michael Spicers. Listen on BBC Sounds.