Comedy of the Week - Room 101 with Paul Merton

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

Paul Merton interviews a variety of guests from the world of comedy and entertainment to find out what they would send to Room 101, as well as the one item they cannot live without.In this episode, Hannah Fry tries to convince Paul to send complicated toilet flushes and exams to Room 101, and discusses her particular devotion to a daily ritual that she cannot live without.Additional Material: John Irwin and Suki Webster Produced by Richard Wilson A Hat Trick production for BBC Radio 4

This is the first radio ad you can smell. The new Cinnabon pull apart only at Wendy's. It's ooey, gooey and just five bucks for the small coffee all day long. Taxes extra at participating Wendy's until May 5th. Terms and conditions apply. BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts Suppose you had the chance to get rid of some of your worst nightmares, what would they be? My guest is here to persuade me to banish the items on her list to a place where they'll never be seen again.

This is Room 101! Please welcome author, presenter and president of the Institute of Mathematics and its Applications, Professor Hannah Fry. Hello. Thank you. So Hannah, do you prefer professor or president? Both. Use them interchangeably.

Okay, I'll try and combine the two. I should point out at this point that maths is not my specialist subject. I've got grade five CSE maths. I want you to pitch all your remarks at the level of a mildly educated chimp. Is there a different institute of mathematics without applications? There is SIAM, the Society of Industrial and Applied Mathematics, and those people, they're our enemies. The arguments between us are so fierce because the stakes are so low.

I'm pleased to hear it. OK, Hannah, here's your first choice. Have a listen to this. Due to exceptional circumstances, we are currently experiencing a high volume of calls. Therefore, you may experience a longer than normal wait to have your call answered. So, an unusually high volume of calls. Yep. This is somebody who doesn't understand how statistics works, right? Because if you are always having a high volume of calls, right, then it's not unusual, is it? You need to

recalibrate your distribution, right? Thank you. It's a bit like once there was a government minister who put out a press release saying how appalled he was that half of all schools were below average. That's the kind of thing that we're talking about. I think also though, right, I would have a lot more respect for companies who are just completely honest with that message, right? If they said, okay, look, we are experiencing normal levels of calls, but we're not going to answer because we refuse to hire more staff because we would have to pay the minimum wage, that would cut into our profits and the shareholders would complain.

I could get behind that. You know? APPLAUSE So, the telephone marketing industry has issued an official definition of unusually high volume of calls. It says, high volume is 10% above normal, or the same number of calls

but fewer people answering. It's actually a helpline website for companies explaining things how to identify high call volume. There are a few telltale signs that your business may be experiencing more calls than usual. The phones ring more often than normal. Your team is unable to answer all inbound calls. Customers are complaining of long wait times.

Here's my problem with that. When it says higher than average number of calls. Average across when? Because it should be average across recently. Here's my problem with that. Here's my problem with that. When it says higher than average number of calls. Yes. Average across when? Because if it's like average, it should be like average across recently. If you go average across since the beginning of time. When there were no telephones.

When there were no telephones. Then of course you've always got a high number of calls. But I think that they should update that average regularly. Martin Lewis, the money saving expert, is conducting a campaign against this unusually high volume of calls message. Apparently if financial service companies are lying about call volumes and they are breaking the financial contact authority Regulations because they are obliged to act in good faith towards customers and enable and support them

So there we go. Well, I can think of nothing whatsoever to say in its favor And we've had an unusually high number of people complaining about the unusually high volume of calls message So that's definitely going into Room 101 as well. Okay Hannah, this is your next choice. This might be more controversial. This is your next choice. So what do you want to put into room 101? The sea. The sea? Oh, that's the first time we've heard that noise today. The sea!

You want to put the sea into room 101? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Tell us why you want to put the sea in. Here's my life commit, right? I don't think there's ever a reason to be on a boat Okay, I think we've never a reason to be on a boat. No, there's never reason to be on a boat I think you know, we've got planes now Yeah, and I appreciate that planes to contribute to global warming

But you know, maybe they'll heat the seas up so much that they'll evaporate there won't be a problem anymore It'd be great for me. Okay And also the other thing I think quite strongly is that I don't think you should ever eat anything that you wouldn't pet. And that rules- What, like a carrot? That rules out all insects and anything that lives in water. Yeah.

The reverse isn't true, by the way. It's not that you have to eat everything that you would pet. Yeah, yeah. No, no, that wouldn't be right. Puppies and babies are still off the menu. But there's a reason, but there's a personal reason why you wanna get rid of the seed though, isn't there? I just, okay, so what happened? happened this I'm extremely afraid of it. You're extremely afraid of the sea. Yes

So when I was about 19, I went on this little snorkeling trip and I was okay with the sea back then back in those days and we were sort of swimming off the boat and then The guys on the boat wanted us to see as many fish as possible So they started throwing bread at us, right? And then all of these fish came from nowhere up in the water. And they were like, I was suddenly in the middle of a school of fish, flying all around me. And it was the most horrifying experience ever.

And since then, can't go near it. Well, over 800 people a year die from snorkeling globally. That's not many, is it? 800? I mean, how many people in this audience haven't been snorkeling in the last 24 hours? See, nobody. There is actually a name for this, you know, it's the Lassophobia. Yes, so that is definitely, that's specifically the fear of the sea. I think it's like not really knowing what's around you and out there.

Right. But you know, I think the thing is about the sea is, or the oceans, is we've only, I mean, we generally don't know what's out there. Yes. The sea is all the oceans is we've only I mean we generally don't know what's out there Yes, like we've only explored 5% of the oceans. Yes, which I think is 5% too much We've got a list of the 20 deadliest tourist activities. Do you know where snorkeling comes on the top 20? 21 not bad for a mathematician at the top 20, but It's probably changed in recent times I Snorkeling is number 19. Is it?

Strangely, eating comes at number 11. Brackets food poisoning. OK. Wait, where's sharks on that? That's not considered a tourist activity. So if we get rid of the sea, which seems to be... I've addressed it. OK, hold on.

I think we should hark back to the days of Pangea you know? There was a single continent no one had to worry about the sea and it worked perfectly well for 160 million years. Yeah you could walk anywhere you liked we'd still be part of Europe you could just walk through it there and back but if we didn't have the sea, where would the water authorities dump all their sewage? All right, and so if you just want to put the sea over there, so essentially I'm not putting this into room 101, but I'm just keeping a distance between you and the sea. That would be perfect, thank you very much. Okay, then I'm glad I'm saying this really really because I can't imagine putting the sea into room 101

So I'm afraid how the sea does not go into room 101 What is your next choice exams exams It sounds like we hardly need to discuss it, but I think we probably should. So what is it about exams? Now, OK, I actually have quite major prefect energy, and that means that I love exams for myself. Yes. I never feel more alive than in exam season.

When you sat exams, when you say when you first sat exams at school, were you just very, very prepared, or did it bring the best out of you? Did you always know that you were going to do well before the exams started? No, not necessarily. I think it's just the pressure. You know, I think some people really thrive under pressure and I think that's, I think, you know, the world is sort of split into people who run towards the pain and those

who run away from it. Yes. And I'm definitely a run towards the pain kind of person. So what would be the first exams you took? I suppose O levels. Which one's O level? Is that the younger one? Yes, that's'm definitely a run towards the pain kind of person. So what would be the first exam? She's took I suppose O levels G. Oh levels that they yes. Yeah, that's a GS I'm old enough to do the 11 plus. Okay, that was a sort of seen a very harsh way to sort of determine your life's Choices at the age of 11. You know in some countries they don't offer any assessments at all until kids are 16 that's the first time that they actually put a grade on how well a kid is doing.

Because the thing is, is that, okay, here's my problem with exams in general, now that I teach as well. And I think that what you want from education is you want to make sure that you are getting children to be well-rounded, to be consistent, to be careful, to work as a team. And instead, you're like, okay, how are we going to check that we're doing that well? We'll chuck all of that away and we'll have a pre-agreed list of facts and we'll just make sure that you can perform under pressure

precisely once, right? You have to perform perfectly once. And I think that most jobs don't require that, right? Unless, OK, snipers and Olympians... Yes. I'm fine with that as an exam. But generally, okay, snipers and Olympians. Yes. I'm fine with that as an exam. Yes. But generally I think that they're testing

the wrong thing. Passing a lot of exams doesn't always correlate with intelligence. I've got one person here who studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in philosophy, politics and economics, and also gained a master of philosophy degree in economics from Christ College, Cambridge, that's an Oxford College, a Cambridge College.

That person was Matt Hancock. Look, you've proven my point. So what were you like at school? What sort of people were you? I was extraordinarily nerdy, frankly. How do you define nerdy? I took extra A levels just for the fun of it. I'm not actually joking.

So how many A levels did you take? So I did like extra maths modules. I did maths and further maths. And there wasn't enough maths, so I just wanted to do a little bit more. I understand there's a beauty to maths, is that right? Yeah, absolutely. So when it got to algebra, X over Y, that just lost me completely. So how could you instil in me a love of maths?

Is it possible at this point in my life? I don't think the stuff you do at school is a great representation of what there is to love about maths Some people say that it's like teaching people music by forcing them to do scales and never letting them listen to Mozart I think that that is pretty accurate Because I think the thing is, is you have to sort of learn the grammar of the subject before you can go on and really excel at it. But once you're there,

once you can speak the language as it were, I think that it offers you this way of seeing the world that is completely unable to be replicated by anything else. You have like a single equation, right, that can take up one line on an A4 sheet of paper that can, for example, describe how all liquids and gases in the universe move from like the tiniest droplet

to sort of the biggest galaxies forming. And nothing in language is as articulate or profoundly beautiful, I think, as that. But unfortunately, quadratic equations just doesn't sort of yes yes I'm not convinced really but I think but I think I kind of automatically switched off as soon as you started trying to tell me okay well am I gonna get rid of exams now I judging by the way that the audience reacted at the top I'd suggest that you probably want going to get rid of exams? Now judging by the way that the audience reacted at the top,

I'd suggest that you probably want me to get rid of exams. If you... So I won't even ask the question. Okay, so exams are going into room 101. In they go. Very good. So, Professor President, what is your next choice? I'm going to go for sexism, specifically in maths, because that's the one I have most

experience of, but sexism in general. Because ironically in maths not all things are equal, are they? Very good. You gave an online talk and there was an American guy, I won't give his real name, it was just George Robertson. He claims to have 40 years experience in capital markets with his own economics podcast and this is what he wrote about you on X, formerly known as Twitter, he was talking about one of your talks, he says, I'm getting tired of these chipper young heavily made up TikTok

ladies who are offered up as experts just because they go quote pretty eyes are not my eyes pretty. First of all we need to clear this up, have you ever said on an online speech haven't I got pretty eyes? You know the thing is... Oh you have, you don't say no. I've got to be really honest with you, I am the president of the IMA, I have you know I'm a professor of my first house, I've got a be really honest with you. I am the president of the IMA. I'm a professor of my flat. I've got a PhD and all that. But when I first saw that I was like, thinks my eyes are free. It's also inferring that George ugly eyes Robertson

isn't too pleased with his own appearance. But yes, how did you react to that? I think what I found amusing about it was that I think what it does Is it's just like a little peek behind the curtain right like we already know that people are sexist right we already know That people don't believe that we have something of value to say despite however many qualifications We've got it's just like a little kind of you let yourself show there, right? I think that that's that's the main thing about it. Yes.

In reply to, because a lot of people online came, supported you, he said, who is the sexist? The person who dummies down to present herself as such or someone who calls her out on this? Well, I think the answer's obvious, isn't it? Well, clearly you are, George Ugly Eyes Robertson. Okay, that's one example. It's a silly example in a sense, but it's about a real thing though, isn't it, because in science, mathematics, there's been lots of prominent women mathematicians who haven't always got the credit for the work they've done. Absolutely, absolutely. But also I think that actually there is a genuine lack of women

who've been involved in these subjects because they were excluded from these spaces for a really, really long time. And so I think that actually we have historically and even now this untapped wealth of talent that just, you know, isn't able to be part of this because they're considered not welcome. So 50% of the population aren't even involved in it because they're not encouraged to be at school? More, right? More. And I think that this guy saying that one thing, it's kind of nothing. There's been a thousand comments like that over the years. And I think that this guy saying that one thing, it's kind of nothing. There's been a thousand comments like that over the years.

And I think that there are so many people who end up leaving these subjects because of the just tidal wave. It's like death by a thousand paper cuts. It's a cumulative effect. I think so, exactly. We've got many examples here. Rosalind Franklin, you probably know who she is. Absolutely. Could you tell the audience, for those who don't know? Yeah, so there's a number of women like this.

Jocelyn Belbonnet is another example of women who were working as PhD students or young early career researchers who came up with massive big deal discoveries. So for Roslyn Franklin, it was the helix of DNA. For Jocelyn Belbonnet, it was pulsars. And then their male supervisors were the people who got Nobel Prizes for their work. Yeah I know. I mean God are you aware of this thing on TikTok and as I say those words I've got no idea what I'm talking about.

There's a thing on TikTok called girl math. Girl? Girl. Girl. Yeah, girl math. Yeah, it's completely legitimate and I say this as a professional mathematician. Okay, well tell me what it is. Okay, so the idea is you want to buy a pair of shoes. This pair of shoes cost £100. It's like, well that feels actually quite expensive. Except that if you think about it, you're going to wear those shoes probably 20 times over the next year.

Yes. Which really makes it actually much cheaper at £5 per wear. Suddenly very cheap shoes. Girl maths. The note I've got here is an invented set of rules, in quotation marks, that women... What bit of maths is an invented? Come on. Well, is it invented or is it discovered? Oh, God, here we go. You're right, it's discovered, I agree, OK. Oh, my CSE grade five has suddenly kicked in.

So, it says that women are supposed, it's an invented set of rules apparently, that women are supposedly keep to when justifying impulse spending. For example, any item under five dollars is considered free. Yep. Is anything bought with cash is also considered free. Concert tickets are bought in advance, are also free, because by the time you go to the concert, that's free Purchases that are returned for a refund aren't just three, but actually profitable I entirely agree, but it by notes also say this is done to wind up men

You know to say that this is nonsense I think implies far too much faith in other numbers that you see around. Because they're all made up. Yes. I mean GDP for example, you sort of make it up and then a few years later you go back and revise your numbers. This is girl math but for economies. So you're president of the Institute of Mathematics and its application. So tell me what that means and its application, the application of maths. What exactly does that mean?

You know, I didn't know that I was going to have an exam. Which is one thing you'd like, except you haven't revised for it. I suddenly feel alive. Find me an industry that is not an application of maths to some degree or another. It's basically the universe, Paul. Basically the universe. I'm basically president of the universe. OK.

Now... I'm basically president of the universe. OK. Now, well, it's quite a bit of support out there to see you president or professor of the universe, depending on what your day of the week it is. Now, you've got a bit of flak. You did Ted talk about maths and romance, didn't you? I watched this, and you said that the thing you should do to find love, to find the perfect partner, is you should ignore the first?

37% of people that you go out with yeah, right, but if you don't know what the final total is how do you know what the first? 37 I mean You can do it on time so you can say I said of your dating life Why will say okay? I did get in quite a lot of trouble for this loads of people sending me emails and Messages saying I met my partner in The first day seven sent you're wrong and I sort of you know replied to all of them being like it's just what the math says

But now I'm getting divorced so But I will say it will say that I Always claimed that this was your best chance and it only worked one-third of the time Which does mean it doesn't work two thirds of the time. Yes. That's a bit of maths for you. Okay, so now, how does maths work in the field of comedy? People might say that maths is a subject you can't do a decent joke about, but I recently

did a gig at the London Palladium. Here's a recording of me doing some maths jokes. Here's one. Why did the obtuse angle go to the beach? It was over 90 degrees. What's the difference? What's the difference between a mathematician and a physicist? Well a physicist is someone who averages the first three terms of a divergent series. three terms of a divergent series. Here's another one. An infinite number of mathematicians go into a bar. It's a huge bar. An infinite number of mathematicians go in. The first one asks for a beer. The second one asks for half a beer. The third one asks for a quarter of a beer. The fourth one, he asks for an eighth of a beer and the barman pours two beers and he says,

you lot ought to know your limits. Hello? Is this on? That got a laugh. I have to say everything you just heard has been completely falsified because we did that to start, I didn't do a gig at the London Palladium. That was not a real audience and the last joke was you ought to know your limits was played to silence, but everybody here laughed So I'm not sure what I've proven it. Can you explain to me this joke here?

What's the difference between a math? I can get the obtuse angle goes to the beach over 90 degrees I get that one. What's the difference between a mathematician and a physicist a physicist is someone who averages the first three terms of a Divergent series. Okay. I mean this is gonna involve a mini lap Divergent series so it's like the opposite of the last joke, you know when you have the last joke it's like one plus a half plus a quarter, and then it ends up being two. Yes. So that's a convergent series. Yeah.

It means that you get like a finite limit. Yeah. Can I just point out you've lost me already. Because... But no, do. But that's... Sane. I don't want to stop the flow of information and knowledge.

It's just I've tuned out completely. I've started thinking about Desert Island Discs. So that is a joke, is it? It's a joke about how physicists are stupid. So our physicists are sort of like drummers in music. Go on. Well, you know, there was a drummer who was his mate in the band, said, look, your timing is really awful.

You've got no sense of time. You're really often He got so depressed about this that he went down to the railway station and threw himself behind a train So tell me about that because I can't believe it got a laugh I think on the timing because on the you ought to know your limits. How is that funny? I always find there much funnier when you explain them. Basically if you carry on with that sequence, halving it every time, and you add it all up, you'll end up getting to two precisely. Oh right. So now mathematics, okay so I drop this pencil on the floor, which I'll do now. Now, mathematically it drops half the distance, you'll know this

as an example I'm sure, and then it drops at half of that distance, and then it drops at half of that distance, so mathematically it never reaches the ground. You're trying Zeno's paradox on me and it won't work. You find it down a week but I'm not. No, I think I've got an idea, I thought she's got nothing to do with what we've been talking about. But... OK, sexism in the world of maths and science, as embodied by George Robertson, are definitely going into room 101. In they go!

Yay! But of course, as they go in, they never quite reach the bottom. OK, for your final choice, have a listen to this. Now, just to be clear, you're not against going to the toilet. No. No, so what is this? Okay, this is toilet with two flush buttons. Okay. Now here's the thing about the two flush buttons, right? Is the big flush because it uses more water and the little flush is using less water? Or is it about frequency of use? And I don't think that you should be confronted with a puzzle when you're going to a toilet. Unless it's something interesting like a Sudoku,

you know? Yes. Well, I mean, you're backed up by which magazine... Well, that's not the right phrase. But according to... ... ... ... ... ...

... ... ... According to which magazine, toilet manufacturers are being urged to rethink the design of some dual flush buttons after new research showed that as many as eight in ten people are inadvertently wasting water and Flushing money down the drain 50% of people identify the wrong button in most dual flush designs and in certain designs 80% Press the wrong button. So actually this is more wrong than right there. Yeah, this is an important point

This is about water conservation. Well, you don't want to conserve you want to get rid of the sea, but So it isn't the larger lever is to flush around 6 to 9 litres of water, whereas the smaller lever is to flush out around 3 to 4 and a half litres of water. So I don't think that's always true, because I mean I did get annoyed about this before and looked into it, and I think that there are some toilet designs where that might be the case, but there are other toilet designs where it's the other way around, where like the large one is the kind of more frequent use, and then you use the little one just for an extra top-up. I think, I think look this would

all be solved if they just numbered them right? Yes. If it was like number one for number one. Yeah. And then number three, one plus two, if you have a really bad day. Well I mean that would be, that would be fairly understandable, wouldn't it, I think. How can we get toilet manufacturers to agree on this? I think it's a losing battle, but I think putting in Room 101 will surely be a start. Well, various people have got quite frustrated about this and have vented their spleen, if that's the expression I'm looking for, in various online discussion groups. It isn't standard.

For example, the louver button fully enclosed with a larger button you push on a small one for half a flush. This would inevitably push the big one down at the same time. Somebody else said, do I press the small one because it stands for small flush, or have they made the big flush button smaller so I'm less likely to press it? Somebody else said, I get so annoyed about this,

I've started pulling the cisterns apart. This is bad design, isn't it? It is bad design, and this is really the thing I want to put in Room 101, is like design that makes you feel like you're the problem. So, other example, pull handles on push doors. Yes. I'm not okay with that, right? I think that that, they're actually called Norman doors, by the way. There's like a whole academic literature about it.

You should be able to look at something and immediately know how it works. And I think that they are rude that they don't do that. I think that it is outrageous that it makes you feel like you're the one that's stupid. And also I think that they're arrogant. Because I think what kind of person would design something and then not look ever to see how people are using it and notice all these people pulling it the wrong way. Talking about doors BBC Television Center installed some revolving doors that were so confusing

they had to print a fold-out leaflet explaining how they work. A member of staff called Rob Pobjoy that's not his real name it was George Robinson said Rob said I've been going through doors all my life. And these are over engineered. Other examples of a bad design, US banknotes are all the same size. So blind people can't distinguish them at all. I'm going to ask the audience about who presses the big button and who presses the small button. If you press the big button, say yes. And if you press the small button, say no. Right, okay, so they all press the big button. If you press the big button say yes and if you press the small button say no. Right okay so they all press the big button. But wait for what? For number one? Oh yeah I don't know. Well perhaps we'll never find out. Okay if you think that pressing

the big button is for the bigger flush say yes and if you think it's for the smaller flush say no on the count of three. One, two, three. Yes! Definitely, yes, okay. Now, does anyone here press both buttons at the same time? If you do, just shout out, I'm easily confused. I'm easily confused. Well, I mean, I've got no choice, have I?

No. I'm definitely putting confusing toilet flushes into Room 101. In they go! Ladies and gentlemen, Professor President Hannah Fry. Room 101 was written and presented by Paul Merton with additional material by John Owen and Suki Webster. It was produced by Richard Wilson. It's a Hatchett production for BBC Radio 4. Thanks for listening to the Comedy of the Week podcast from BBC Radio 4. If you want more, check out the Friday Night Comedy podcast, featuring the News Quiz, The Now Show and Dead Ringers. Hello, I'm Sean Keevney and I'm back with a brand new series of Your Place or Mine from

BBC Radio 4. It's the show where a litany of wonderful guests try to tempt this recalcitrant traveller onto the runway to experience their favourite place on earth. Custard filled pastries everywhere as standard. I stayed in a place where that was there, they didn't put mince on the pillows, they put custard tarts. They'll try to tempt me with all the wonders and delicacies from their favorite place in the world, but will they succeed? There's an amazing lighthouse, and there's a brilliant tour there by the guy who his family

were the lighthouse keepers, the lighthouse family if you will. Listen to all new episodes of Your Place or Mine on BBC Suns. you