Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Nathan Lane

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Actor Nathan Lane feels it’s about f***king time he was asked to be Conan O’Brien’s friend. Nathan sits down with Conan to discuss his storied career from Broadway to iconic film roles in The Birdcage and The Lion King, honoring actress Linda Lavin in his new series Mid-Century Modern, and being tested for vertigo at the Dizzy Institute. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan.

Hi, my name is Nathan Lane and I feel... It's about fucking time I was asked to be Conan O'Brien's friend. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the Needs a Friend, joined here by Sonam Avsesian and Matt Gorley. And man, things are getting heated in here because Matt Gorley just made a suggestion. And you said, cause we were trying to think of what do we talk about here upfront? Go back a little further and process it with that.

You always want to have something nailed down that we're going to talk about. And Sona and I are a little bit more frankly chill. Yeah, exactly. I guess the difference would be, you two are always saying, let's just talk about anything, because in the podcast world,

you can literally just talk about anything. And hey man, that's what happened, man. We laid out what was happening in the moment, which was nothing. And isn't that great? And everyone gets a podcasty award. Podcasty. I come from a different world of thinking about things

and planning them and writing them beforehand on such shows as The Simpsons, Saturday Night Live. Boring. Seven different. Never heard of them. Yeah, any hoots. My point is, I was taking a second to try and think of something, and you said.

After a long pause. After a long pause. No one's chiming in. No one try and think of something and you said. After a long pause. After a long pause. No one's chiming in. No one's chiming in and you said, well, it's windy out here in LA. Pretty stupid. And yeah, but no one attacked you for it. We just sort of was like,

nah, not that, that's not it. And then Blay got upset and Blay, you said, well, listen, I think that I... I want this podcast to be the best it could be. What I said was, he said, it's windy out. And you said, no. And then you didn't say anything else. I didn't put him down.

I didn't go after him. That's right. You just let it pass. You let it pass. You leaned in because you'll sometimes make suggestions. That's right. And it's a little bit like Whack-A-Mole, this gray haired, gray bearded, Blay little bit like Whack-A-Mole, this gray-haired, gray-bearded,

Blay sticks up. Whack-A-Mole? Whack-A-Mole where all the moles are Blay. And I... Whack-A-Blay. Whack-A-Blay, and I just, I bash you down. And sometimes I go after you for a while. I mean, sometimes.

But you said, if I had said that, you'd have gone after me. That's right. And I had said that right before I said it, I literally had the thought of, I think this is a suggestion Blay would make. I don't mean that in a bad way. Well, what other way could you possibly make it? Well, I still said it, didn't I?

Yeah, you said. Oh, thanks. No, that's a real vote of confidence. No, I didn't mean it that way. I still said it, didn't I? But I pointed out that the difference is in presentation. Right. I pointed out that what Gorley did

is Gorley quietly went, well, we can talk about how it's windy out and it's a little dry. Right, he undersold it. He undersold it, he's back from the mic and I'm like, yeah, right, we're not gonna do that. And I pointed out to you, Blay, when you make a suggestion,

although you have a naturally loud speaking voice, you will never be lost in the desert, ever. That's true. And I will say, hold it, I'm not done. I'm not done. You don't get the speaking stick ever again. So what you do is you have a loud voice anyway, you lean into these, are these Heifelweser microphones?

What are they? Heifelweser? Are they Steinbenschasses? Dynamic. Dynamic? So let's get the Heifelalvesas, they're better. These are very, very sensitive microphones. Cardiote. And what you do, Blay, is you take your whole body,

you're a large man, a large, powerful man, and you lean in and you almost deep throat the microphone, and you would have said, hey, we can talk about how windy out. And people listening in their cars would be crashing on the 405, the 10, all across this great nation, cars would be going off, you know what I mean? But this is what makes Blay magical

is you are able to do this openhearted. I had to come at it as like, I know I'm gonna get hit for this. That's what I meant. Like I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna get hit. So I had to- He's confident about it. I know.

And I have to say, I think, you're the MVP of this entire place and you make this place go around. Yeah, yeah. And can I say something else, Blay, in your favor? Oh boy. Everyone's pointing at me when they,

you don't need to point at me when you're addressing. Yeah, stop pointing at me. It's very aggressive. This is a compliment, but you have an unearned confidence. No, no, no. Oh, no. That's not a compliment.

No, that's not a compliment. No, no, no. I don't think you know what a compliment means. No, wait a minute. Isn't a compliment where you really get someone? No, no, a compliment is a nice thing you say about someone. And you don't qualify it. You just compliment.

Well, anyway, you are, every time you light the fuse and the TNT blows up in your face, it's a new, it's like it's happening for the first time. And you're just like, this should go well. Blay, you're the coyote who's never learned. You've opened up 700,000 Acme boxes. Charlie Brown in the football.

Yeah, Charlie Brown in the football. And you just keep going for it. I don't know if you've ever said this on mic, but you did say once, you're like, I love it when, and you said this completely honestly, I love it when you come running through the door with a wet fart and which, and I can't- I don't know what that means even now.

I don't know, why? Like, hey everybody, and then just look at me, and then just. Yeah, I never said that. I never said that. You did say, no, you didn't make that noise. It does sound like something you'd say. But I'm trying to say it. Then you said that, that's coming that. You did say... No, you didn't make noise. But I'm trying to say it. That's coming out.

You did say the... You did say the wet fart. You're gonna take it out. You are. You're gonna let it out. Don't worry, boss, I'll definitely take it out. Just drive and drop it. Control-alt-7. All I want to say here is...

All I want to say here is... If it's a... I... First of all, I disagree it's about presentation. I do think there is... Do you think your presentation could be better? Yes. Let's try it. But, I, first of all, I disagree it's about presentation. I do think there is a... Do you think your presentation could be better? Yes. Let's try it. But can I just say it?

Try it. Pitch windy the way you think it is. Well, now I'm self-conscious about it. It's OK. You got it. You got this. Hey, guys. What should we talk about? Do it. You guys should sit over here. The lights are, you know, I feel like I have to lean

in to be, like, to be hurt. You don't. You don't. To be hurt or hurt. No, you don't. Because you do get hurt. You don't. You don't. To be hurt or hurt. You don't. Because you do get hurt. You don't.

It's a microphone. Psychologically being back here, don't you think, Eduardo? I've been back there, it's true. Eduardo, back me up. Don't you think we have to lean in to be part of the conversation? Is that not true?

Eduardo never yelled. Yeah, I... Listen to that voice. Listen to that voice. Listen to that voice. A smooth radio DJ. Can I say something? I'm gonna back up my boy here.

I'm gonna say this. When you speak, Eduardo, I am like, oh my God, I wanna hear what Eduardo has to say. Because he has, he always says, you've got a beautiful voice, you're very calm, you're centered, you're not! Your whole tone of voice is not begging for acceptance! I'm gonna back up my boy here, and I'm gonna say I admire, I think he's brave.

I think he knows, I think that's true. No one knows what a compliment means. No, no, he is brave like a lemming is brave. A lemming that just throws itself mindlessly off a cliff. Those brave lemmings. To his point, being in the shadows over here, yes, you don't know, it's like a game of jump rope. You don't know when to jump in, when to jump out,

and you don't want to trip and be the idiot that stumbles upon the rope. He knows that you're probably gonna shit on him for his ideas, but he still will pitch them anyway. So I think he's self-aware, but that's why I say he's brave. So, you know. All I know is that the most powerful salvo in the world

was lobbed at you and it bounced off of you, which is Harrison Ford told you, it said, shut the fuck up, Blay. And Tom Hanks. And Tom Hanks. Both of the most iconic stars of the 20th and 21st century told you to shut the fuck up. And it was like watching someone shoot a spitball

at an aircraft carrier. I think we should make you two medals of valor for those that you get to wear. It didn't affect you at all. Anyone else would be in the hospital for the rest of their lives if both of those stars had told them to shut the fuck up. That's right.

This is a really, can we please put on the rap light for God's sakes? We put the rap light on like- Wait though, are we gonna talk about the wind? Shut the fuck up, Sona! Shut the fuck up, Sona! All right, my guest today is a Tony Award-winning actor who has starred in such movies as The Producers

and The Birdcage. Now you can see him in the new Hulu series, Mid-Century Modern. I'm delighted he's here, I'm thrilled. ["The Birdcage"] Nathan Lane, welcome. ["The Birdcage"] Nathan Lane, welcome. I'm going to start by saying there's a moment that I had with you that is very important

to me. And you're not going to be aware of this, but it meant the world to me. And you've done very nice, very many nice things for me over the years, including doing this amazing thing on our final late night show, which was fantastic. You are what the Irish call a mensch, but you just before we started the podcast, you very sweetly came over and you offered your condolences about my parents passing away last month.

And it reminded me of this very special moment in my life when my mother came to town, she didn't come to New York often, she was pretty much stayed in Boston, but she came to town and the biggest thing to do at that time in New York, it was the biggest thing in the world was go and see the producers.

And I told my mother, I'm gonna take you to the producers. And my mother couldn't believe it because even in Boston, they knew that this was a huge deal. So we went and we saw the producers. And one of my favorite memories of that night is we saw the producers and my mother was not a, you know,

she's from central Massachusetts. She mostly stayed in Boston. She didn't go see Broadway shows. She's now seeing the biggest thing in the history of Broadway. It's you, it's the whole full original cast, Matthew Broderick. I will never forget at the end of the show,

she was doing that clapping that's not down here, it's up here. My mother, who basically looks so much like me, imagine me in a wig, clapping like this. So then we get up and someone very kindly came over and said, would you like to say hello? And I said, well, I'm always shy about those things but I thought, well, if it's possible.

And I said, oh, hi, Nathan. We went backstage, hi, Nathan. And this was the, I mean, literally kings, queens, presidents, everybody would come backstage with the producers every night. And I was the, I mean, literally, kings, queens, presidents, everybody would come backstage with the producers every night. And I came over and I said, Nathan, this is my mom. And you said, Mrs. O'Brien. You gave her this big hug.

You acted like it was the biggest thing in the world. I've, my mother was transported into another realm and may have hastened her death. That was... Oh my God. I'm saying 20 years passed, but I think she could have lived another five. And so I'm accusing you of murder. No, I don't know why I ruined things.

It was the nicest and I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. It was a beautiful moment and you are, you're, I mean, people know Nathan Lane, the famous person from television, movies, Broadway, but you are a extremely sensitive person, probably to your own detriment. I think, you know what I mean?

You're not a thick skinned soul. And in that moment, I could just see what a lovely, fantastic person you are. Well, that's aside from the murder accusation, that was an incredibly kind and moving thing to say. You know, as someone who in the public eye, you know, especially, you know, when doing a Broadway show eight times a week and when people do come back, it is awkward because they don't, unless they're theater veterans and they understand the etiquette of no matter

what, even though it was a terrible show, you hated it. You say, that was the greatest night of my life and thank you for a wonderful performance, and you leave. As opposed to walking in and saying, I have some issues with the play. Yes. You know, there are those people. Right.

But you have to, I think as you get older, you learn to be gracious, and also you have to take the ball and say, I'm so glad you're here. And you fill in. And then if they're able to say something, that's great. But you make them feel good about what they just experienced.

I mean, very often, what you want to say is, I wish you were here last night. The matinee didn't go so well. You've got to make it a positive for them. But what's interesting is that what you're doing is you've just done a show where you're giving it all you've got. I mean, yes, Matthew was working hard in that show,

but come on. I mean, you're using your instrument in every single possible way. And then I don't think people realize when they come backstage, you're putting on another show for them, you're worried about them, you're making sure that they get what they need,

which is kind of insane, you know? Well, you know. You should be taken away by helicopters. I mean, you're done with a performance. Exactly, yes. You know done with a performance. Yes. That's a part of the gig. Yeah, you go off and go immediately to bed. But yeah, it's why I wouldn't wanna do it.

I wouldn't wanna be in the middle of a musical anymore, eight times a week. It's a young man's game. Because it's like being a quarterback. In my career, I always had a real problem with the transition to, I'll just curl up with a good book. Yeah, now you can. Yeah, with that kind of energy.

Yeah. So what did you do? Did you have a trick for, because I'm just thinking, I mean, so many Broadway references. I mean, I saw you before I even started the late night show, I think. I saw you do laughter on the 23rd floor. And I was like, I don't know how he goes to sleep tonight.

Like, I don't know how he. Well, there was just many years of just a lot of drinking. Let's point out there, if you're out there and you have trouble sleeping, drinking is the message we have for you. That really helps. You know, I think it's just, look, you know those days when you would go out, if it didn't go well, you would go out and have drinks? Yep. Or if it did go well, you went out and had drinks.

And, you know, you could get away with it in your youth, but that changes as you get older. It's, yeah, you just go to bed a little later. It takes a while to come down from all of that. I used to go to sleep at 1.32 in the morning. Sure. And, yeah, it was... Well, you'd talk to your wife, wouldn't you?

I wasn't married at the time. Oh. But I knew who she was going to be, so I'd call her. She'd say, who is this? And I'd say, it's your future husband, Conan O'Brien. And she would say, I'm not a fan of that show. Sure. He seems needy.

But I think what's... Remember the one time I saw you, we were at the Angelica Cinema. You know what? I know exactly what you're talking about. And I was like, it was like seeing your teacher, you know, at the supermarket. I was like, it's Conan and I can see his legs. And you were with this gorgeous woman.

That's my wife. And it was so, I was happy to see you, but I was like, this is awkward because he doesn't have cards. He's not gonna ask me that question where I have a great bed I wrote. I thought what was awkward is that I did immediately produce cards.

Nathan, I understand you're at a funny thing having a forum. Now tell me, I understand you have a funny story about avocados. And then I threw the commercial while we were standing waiting to see a movie. No, my wife and I, Liza, we ran into you. And it is strange when you see someone outside of

the weird, I don't know, bubble, whatever we live in. We were waiting for the movie to start. I remembered you seemed a little downcast, you know? Have we met? Yeah. I thought maybe it's me, like Nathan's thinking, oh, Jesus. Bring down the mood again.

And there's Conan O'Brien, I can't do it. No. But- I'm sure I got nervous. Like, oh, I better be funny. It's something like that. I'm sure it was just- Yeah, because there's high stakes

when you're in a movie lobby. But it's so funny because I relate. There are many ways in which I think you and I could probably relate. As friends? As friends, but it's also, I think we're both Irish. We both come from, we were raised very Catholic, I believe.

And I know that my self-defense mechanism that I learned very early on was to just beat up on myself and hate myself. If I get to me before anyone else gets to me, then I beat them to the punch. And I always kind of sense that when I would hang with you like, oh, I think Nathan and I have, there's a kinship here.

I know you had, there was alcoholism in your family. And I know this is a dark thing to bring up. It's funny because there was in my family, because there had been alcoholism throughout the family tree, my parents, I grew up in a dry house, which is a thing you see in some Irish culture, which is they're so afraid of it

that you can't even have a rum cake in the house. Like there was nothing. There was no, you couldn't. So I grew up kind of being told that it's, it will kill you if you get near it. And it was the way people talk about like fentanyl now, that was how wine was treated when I was growing up. It just wasn't in the house.

And then if company came over, my dad had a little like rusty key and we would open up a little cabinet and take out what must have been the shittiest bottle of wine in the world that he had just capped the last time someone had had a glass, didn't know how to store it, blew dust off of it, and gave someone, you know, basically vinegar.

Yeah. There was a lot of ways where I feel maybe we would relate. Yes, as Irishmen, sure. Yeah. The dark humor and self-deprecating that, you know. that maybe we would relate. Yes, as Irishmen, sure. Yeah. The dark humor and self-deprecating that, you know. And also something that I... Samuel Beckett vibe.

Well, you have said... We bring every party. You said, I love this quote, I was reading an interview with you and you said that you felt like you grew up in a bad Eugene O'Neill play. Yeah. And then later you revised that,

but why don't you elaborate on that? Oh, well, it was, you know, my father was an alcoholic, became an alcoholic. Really, I was born, my mother had me when she was 40, and not long after he started drinking really heavily and essentially drank himself to death. My mother then had a breakdown after his death and her own mother's death. She eventually was diagnosed as bipolar.

Then it was called manic depression. It was a difficult childhood in that I had to grow up fast. I sort of became the adult. My two older brothers were going to college. They were sort of on the way out, although they were very much involved in helping. But when I was going to high school, it was just my mother and myself, and she was going through these phases of depression and manic behavior an in and out of mental hospitals and then and and I never really I never really had much of a relationship with my father he died when I was 11 and I can remember saying to my brother my

oldest brother Dan you know we were going to the funeral and I said I was upset and he said what's and I said to him I I said I can't cry I'm supposed to be crying now yeah my father died and I can't cry he said, what's, and I said to him, I said, I can't cry. I'm supposed to be crying now. Yeah. My father died and I can't cry. He said, that's all right. He said, you feel how you feel and it doesn't, that's not important. Yeah. And- Which was ahead of its time, by the way, for him to say that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is-

And he was not the healthiest guy in the world himself. Yeah, you know, yeah, he was, well, you know, he was a teacher and he certainly, and he was my oldest brother who got me interested in the theater and reading and, you know, he became sort of a father figure. There's this thing that happens, I think it's true of a lot of performers, where they take whatever they've been given and then they realize, my experience was I just went down a checklist when I was a kid. And mostly it was things I wasn't good at, you know? I mean, literally, I mean, I remember doing like a mental rundown of what's not gonna be anything

in the athletic field. I think that's quite clear. It's not gonna be, I'm not really a ladies man. Okay. Me too. Yeah. So I just keep clicking things off and you figure out what weapon you have in your toolbox and you must have figured out at a...

And you find your group. Yes, you find your... You know, you have to find the person who laughs at your jokes and gets it, and gets what you're talking about. I'm still looking. I'm still looking. It's a quest, an epic quest. Yeah.

But when, so you figure out, fairly, probably, what is it, high school? You realize like, I like to get up there. I like to be in front of people. I think, you know, honestly, I can remember as a child, like doing, they would say, I would get up and do impressions. I would try to entertain the family.

And I had like a bad club act. And then I was in a, you know, a grammar school play. Yeah. I remember getting a laugh in that and thinking, oh, this was like blood to a vampire. Yes. And then in high school, I started to do plays. And it was social.

It was finding your people. But it was just, I didn't think it could be a profession. Right. Nor did I. And then nearing the end of high school, I realized maybe I could. My brother would also not only encourage me, but he took me to see theater in New York,

to see plays on Broadway and off Broadway. And sometimes with classes that he was teaching, he would take a class and I would go with him. And I would, you know, that first experience of watching the curtain go up and the lights on the stage and thinking, I'd like to be a part of that. I think maybe I could do that. Yeah.

And the excitement of just the ritual of it all, people quieting down as the curtain goes up, and there's, you know, nothing quite like it. Do you still, I mean, after all of this, all of these crazy hits of dopamine and success, can you still access that when you're in a show? Oh, absolutely. Yes, isn't that amazing?

Absolutely. You don't get, oh yeah, no, this is old, I'm just giving them the old number 42B. No, I'm here making this multi-chem mid-century modern. And every Tuesday night when we tape it, it's like you feel the adrenaline and you think, you want it to go well. Because of this process, which is sort of a whirlwind process, and I was saying to someone today, it's really more of a writers' process.

It's their sort of rewriting... This is multi-cam and they rewrite throughout the week. Yes, it's sort of thrilling, it's flying by the seat of your pants, but it's also like, is this acting or am I just repeating what you said to me three seconds ago? But somehow it all comes together. But I certainly, before we start, I feel that kind of the thing you feel before a live performance.

The thing you feel as a kid. Yes. Absolutely. It doesn't go away. No. I didn't realize this, but when you did the Birdcage, that was a big boost step up. You were doing well, very well established Broadway,

but you did the birdcage with Robin Williams. Mike Nichols had to talk you into it. Is that true? No. By the way, we do very bad research here. And your name is? Your name is? Jason Alexander. Jason Alexander.

Jason Alexander. And you did Sandler. And I'm wearing the wig today. No. I thought he had to talk you into it. No. Okay. Forgive me if you've heard this before,

but originally, you know mike the great mike nichols and elaine may have wanted to do that uh... an american remake of lacotra fall for a very long time and then finally gotten the rights and it was supposed to be steve martin and robin williams and and robin was going to play the part i wound

up playing steve there was another obligation it wasn't gonna work out and then robin decided uh... i've just done dragon mrs doubtful i'm sorry i've been ignoring you people there to be ignored talking about and they are to be ignored i could only make one new friend of the uh... so i don't know what you're doing with the rest of the afternoon, but maybe lunch and I can deal with you and your childhoods.

But so Robin decided after Mrs. Doubtfire, maybe I shouldn't play the drag part and that the acting challenge would be playing the more subdued character. And so it opened up that role. And Mike came to see me and laughed on the 23rd floor. And I had met him briefly once and it's like meeting God. And then he came backstage, which he had never done. And he said, dear boy, I'd like to talk to you about a movie.

And I was like, oh, you want to go see one? I hear Conan's hanging out at the Angelica. He's in the lobby. Who is this Conan? And can I call you? And he did. And then, so the next day it was, this is happening, and it's Elaine is writing the adaptation, and Robin Williams is going to play the other part. And I said, so I would be the drag queen.

And he said, yes. And I said, well, that's a very good part. And he said, yes, it is. And I said, okay. And I couldn't believe it was happening. Now this is, you can cut me off at any point. It's a long story. So we also kind of did, he wouldn't make it, he wouldn't refer to it as a screen test,

but they wanted to see what I would look like in drag and all of that. He made it fun and I sang a song and many outfits by the great Ann Roth, the costume designer. Then I was supposed to do a funny thing happen on the way to the forum. They were building this around me. And Scott Rudin called me, the producer of Forum, and he said, he's not going to make that movie. That's never going to happen. It's never going to work out. And he went on and I had to, because of the scheduling, I had to turn it down. I had to say, you know what? I can't really leave these people in the lurch they've been building and the timeframe

now that you're talking about. I couldn't, I can't do that to them. That's a crazy thing to say, no, Mike Nichols. Yeah. I will not co-star in your film. So I said, okay, you know, and I told them. And then I would hear from, I would see Mike Nichols. I was and and then I would hear from I would see Mike Nichols I was this is I was talking about this the other day. I would see him from time to time

He would like it once This was this this was afterwards. There was a there was a period where there was a period where maybe Robin wasn't gonna Do the movie this is how long this went on and maybe you, he would say, how do you feel about Billy Crystal? I'm nobody, you know what I mean? And I would say, I love Billy Crystal. Yeah. Why are you asking me? You know, and then, you know, one day he came up to me, we were at a benefit, and he said, Robert Redford.

I said, is he here? He said, no. Robert, he said, Robert Redford is your husband. And I said, well, if you can work that out, all Redford as your husband. And I said, well, if you can work that out, all my dreams will come true. And so, and then, so anyway, finally, I think Robin, it was, yeah,

he was gonna play the other part. And then he calls me, he was in Ireland, and he says, Nathan, and I'm in my dressing room at the lap door of the 23rd floor. And he says, Nathan, and I'm in my dressing room at the lap door of the 23rd floor and he says, Nathan, I'm meeting people but I think you're the person. And I said, Mr. Mike Nichols, I have no power here. Perhaps if you called Scott Rudin, something could be arranged.

He said, yes. He's like an evil serpent. Yes. I don't mean to make him sound like that. No, no, no. He was, he was. No, but I know what you mean. He had a, well, an aura, an iconic status.

Oh yeah. And so, yes, I could see him. He's someone who can just say, yes. He called you dear boy. Yeah, and it has a power to it. Oh yes. And so the next day, Scott Rudin said, you really wanna do this movie?

I said, well, why wouldn't I wanna do this movie? And he said, it means we have to postpone a year. And I said, I know. I said, I know, I turned it down. He said, okay. And then it wound up of course, helping us with Forum because by the time Forum opened, the movie had come out. And I was not just this New York actor who was,

had lucked out in getting the lead in this musical, but it was always the guy from that film that's doing well. Right, it's Jason Alexander. Jason Alexander. And so it, so it's one thing helped the other. And, you know, so I'm grateful to Scott Rudin, Mike Nichols, Robin Williams. It was, you know.

I'm going to introduce someone who was, one of the things I always say is a hallmark of a great career is that depending on who you run into in any age group, they're excited about a different thing. My co-host today, sitting with me, David Hopping, who's here accidentally because Sona couldn't be here, he lost his mind when he found out that he was gonna be in a room with you because of The Lion King.

And he- Yeah, we were walking in, and Clay was like, do you mind sitting in today? And I was like, with Disney royalty? Of course I wanna sit in here. Yeah, we just did this thing at the Hollywood Bowl. It's gonna, I think it's airing soon.

It was the 30th anniversary, I can't believe that, concert of, you know, Jennifer Hudson and a lot of people from the original cast and the new people and people from the Broadway show. It was quite the extravaganza. But it was fun to be reunited with Ernie Sobella, who played Pumbaa, and he's an old friend. And I also think I had some experience with this working on The Simpsons, but people don't realize that voice work, none of it works if it's not there in the voice.

I don't care how good the animation is. I don't care how good the story is. If the actor who's doing the voice can't capture it, and I saw this on The Simpsons, these people are just brilliant who do those, you know, it's Hank Azaria and Dan Casaneta, and this is a whole, if it's not there, you don't have anything. And so to be one of those iconic Disney voices

is pretty amazing. Yeah, again, sort of like a, you know, as a kid seeing those Disney films, and I was always fascinated by the voice actors. So to wind up doing that and with a movie that started as something called King of the Jungle, and nobody seemed to be excited about it. And then auditioning for hyenas, you know, three hyenas, and then Ernie happened to be there. You know, we were both doing Guys and Dolls on Broadway at the

time. And he had gone in first, and he was going to leave, and he said, I'll stay with him and get lunch. And I said, well, would it be all right if he came in and we read together? Because it's three hyenas, and it'll give me someone to play off of, and I said, well, would it be all right if he came in and we read together? Because it's three hyenas and it'll give me someone to play off of and, you know, might be fun. And then, you know, like two months later, they said, well, we're developing these two, you know, sidekick characters that are the comic relief and, you know, a warthog and a meerkat. I said, great. My dream. and a meerkat, and I said, great. My dream.

My dream. You know, and then we started, it was like a two-year process, and they show you drawings, and we said to them, well, how do you want them to sound? And they wanted him to be lower pitched and me to have a higher pitched voice. But they said, you're doing Geisendal,

so they should be like Damon Runyon, in the Serengeti. And, um, and so Ernie was just doing, he does a combination of the, no one will remember, a character actor named Wallace Beery, who used to talk like this. And then also a little bit of Michael Gotso from The Godfather, who's really high up here.

You're on him. He does a combination of that. I'm just doing a Brooklyn Jewish meerkat. That old thing. That old thing. Yeah. That's how they came to life. Then Ernie used to, the big joke was that we were doing a show eight times a week, and we go into record very early and we're tired.

So I'd be having coffee and we're going to start, and Ernie would just start making fart noises in the middle of, he'd say, tomorrow. Just to make me laugh, get me going, and then they put it in the movie. Which is why Pumbaa is the first flatulent character in a Disney film. So that's literally just screwing around

to make you chuckle. You know, little, you know, we improvise. They use a little of it. I mean, apparently, I don't even remember half of it, but they, apparently I said, you know, what do you want me to do, dress in drag and do the hula? For some reason, it must have been a long day. And then they made it a song.

Now here's where the businessman in me says, you need a piece of that. Yeah, well, it's only- And I bet Disney is very easy to negotiate with. Hey, Disney! Get him on the phone? Yeah. You let me talk to them.

Okay. I'll handle it. All right. I've gotten in with Disney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a Disney guy? Yeah, big Disney guy. I'm curious about this because I have a tendency

to squish things down. If things are good, I tend to just squish it down. Right. Like, okay, well, that was a nice thing that happened, but let's just squish that down and put it over here and not think about it and stick to the work. And it's sort of kind of a self-flagellating again, God knows where this nonsense comes from,

I suspect we know, but are you able, I would want this for you. I would want you at this stage to be able to say, wow, God, I've done so much good work and I am Nathan Lane, or feel some of that. And I think it might be hard for you. Sure, it's funny you say that. My husband was here visiting and we had dinner.

I had a birthday recently and we were sitting there and I said to him, you know, it's taken me such a long time to say, you know, I really appreciate, maybe it's age, I just appreciate. I have a lot of gratitude for what I've been able to accomplish with so much about luck and opportunity. And as Ina Garten says, be ready when the luck happens. But the amount of talented writers and actors and directors I've gotten to work with. And it's, you know, it's, I'm very grateful and it's something to not only be proud of,

but just not that you're resting on your laurels, but you feel like, you know, I have accomplished something. Yeah. And then it's meaningful to people and then whether it's the Lion King or the Birdcage or these huge, there were huge things in my life and they meant something to someone, it means everything. I mean, jumping back to, I was in New York

doing the late night show when the producers happened and it was, it was a cultural phenomenon. Yeah. That... Rarely happens. I mean, it was a lightning strike, but it was more than that.

It was, there are hits on Broadway, but something happened and everyone agreed that this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in New York City. And it was lovely to be around that. And then I remembered thinking, oh, Jesus, you and Matthew have to walk around and everybody wants a ticket.

Every policeman, every guy who's there to open a manhole cover. And they're not gonna buy, Nathan, that you can't get them a ticket. What do you do about that? It was very, the sanitation workers were a big demographic for that show. Hamilton and either that was sort of another one. Yeah, but that was I think that show was kind of it was about

obviously Mel Brooks, you know sure yeah that genius and But it was also kind of a zeitgeist hit, you know you would come out of a long period of their dark British musicals and there hadn't been anything that was kind of a return to old-fashioned musical comedy. Unapologetic. Unapologetic, you know, sort of a Valentine and yet satirical at the same time, and with, you know, arguably one of the greatest comic plots ever conceived.

Yes. We need this thing to fail. We need it. Which is such a great idea. Isn't it? It's just the beauty of that. So, you know, and I certainly was this huge fan of the film. I literally saw the film for the first time in a revival house here in LA.

And with an audience filled filled screaming their heads off. And I was like, Zero Mostel, I've never seen anyone so huge on screen, physically and emotionally, and yet truthful and gritty and just hilarious in the combination of him and Gene Wilder. And so the notion that when all of that started percolating, I started to hear, he's writing a musical. David Geffen is trying to talk him into writing

this musical based on the movie. I thought, well, it is a backstage story, it makes sense. Then somebody mentioned, they had talked to him about it. And then I was in, this was the weekend, I hate to mark it this way, but it was the weekend Princess Diana died.

Yeah. And he wasn't my husband then, but my now husband and I were at the Ritz in Paris. We went down to the pool, and in the pool was Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft. And my husband's favorite actress was Anne Bancroft. And he turned to me and said, that's Anne Bancroft. He said, I'm too nervous. I can't swim in front of Anne Bancroft. He went upstairs. So I said, okay. And then I went to the pool and I had met them. This is like the benchmark laughter on the 23rd floor.

They came, they had come to see it because there was a character based on Mel in the play about which he said, that character based on me, it's a tissue of lies. Anyway, they were very great. But I loved it. But I loved it. But I loved it. Anyway, he said hello and I got in the pool and she and was swimming laps.

She left and he stayed in the pool with me, which I thought odd. And then he swam over to me and he said, I'm working on a musical based on my movie the producers And I think you and Marty short are the only two people in the world to play those parts and I was like wow I said that would be thrilling. I would be so honored and yeah and Then you know time passed he had to write it with Tom man, and then you know, time passed, he had to write it with Tom Meehan. And then, you know, Marty had just done, you know, brilliantly, Little Me, he won the Tony,

and he spent a lot of time in New York, didn't want to be away from the family again that long. And so someone brilliantly suggested Matthew Broderick, and I thought that's, you know, in some ways, that's a better combination. His energy and my energy, as it turned out it was. And he was sensational. And it was the beginnings of this journey that we took together, being in the middle of that tornado.

And you think, oh, you know, you'll never... the hype, you know, how can you live up to the hype? The great thing, as you said, you know, all these people, it's Barbara Walters and Kofi Anon are here after the show, you know, and you go, really? It's Bishop Desmond Tutu, loved it, he's coming up the stairs. So you go, wow. Mrs. O'Brien is here. Alan Greenspan.

Yeah. And you know, people like that. Well, you couldn't believe it. But the people I loved would be like Harvey Korman. Sure. Coming back and saying, when you did that little piece of physical comedy and you go, these are people who understand

what it is we're doing in a way. These are people that you watched when you were a kid. Sure. To me, that was, nothing will ever be more magical than when I get to meet the people that I saw. And sadly, there aren't many left, but I saw them on TV and they made me laugh

when I was eight, nine, 10, 12, 15. And if they noticed me in any way and saw what I was doing and liked it, I think, okay, I can die now. It's not gonna get better than this. Tim Conway, you know, I met him. These people you idolized, or Carol. I mean, Carol Burnett, you know,

came back and she got emotional and she said, this reminds me of the old days of what Broadway was like. And it's like you're, Mel is throwing this huge party and you and Matthew are the hosts and it just was, yeah, it was that, especially in the beginning that show, the joy The the joy of it and the and the the anarchy of it like anything could happen Yeah, because it had that you know that tone to it. Yeah, that's kind of a once-in-a-lifetime Thing when they know it's not because I've got a new idea the sequel

Spartacus Musical art is the music and I think you're perfect The sequel? Spartacus. Oh, Spartacus. The musical. Spartacus the musical. And I think you're perfect. Not as Spartacus. No, I'm his lawyer. You know what? You all can't be called Spartacus. There's a legal issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So now you're working and it's nice cause it's a, it's, you're working with this cast. You're making it's, it's multicam. So you're making mid-century modern. Is am I correct? Linda Lavin was part of this. Yes. And she has since passed.

Yes, she has, sadly. The show Alice is how I got to know Linda Lavin. Yeah. And that was her iconic TV role. How much did you work with her? Well, you know, in the theater, she's a beloved figure, Tony award-winning actress. Famously, I remember seeing her in

Neil Simon's play Broadway Bound. She played his mother and it's one of the greatest stage performances I've ever seen. We knew each other just in passing. I was just a fan and we would see each other occasionally, and we'd always say, I hope we get to work together someday. When this happened, um, it was... This whole thing has been an incredibly happy experience.

Um, a rare thing. And, uh, it's all the people who... You know, Jimmy Burroughs is the director. I've always, again, one of these people. Jimmy Burroughs, one of these guys that, I mean, cheers... Uh... Going back to the Mary Tyler Moore show. Yes. Friends. always again one of these people. Jimmy Burrow is one of these guys that I mean, cheers. Going back to the Mary Tyler Moore show. Yes, the Friends. Taxi. Yep.

You know, and it's created by Max Muchnick and David Cohen, who created Will and Grace. And they've put together this tremendous writer's room and with Jimmy there and what they're doing. And then just the casting is everything. That's another podcast maybe, but it was tragic and shocking and then emotional. And then they took a week,

they pushed a week so that they could write an episode that deals with the death of her character. And also where the show is going to go going forward. And they did a beautiful job and it was overwhelmingly emotional. But she was, you would not believe she was 87 years old. I mean, she was just, and then you put her in front of an audience and, you know, she was, as Jimmy would say, she was,

with a joke, she was like a heat-seeking missile. She was just brilliant. There is that thing, I always heard it, about George Burns, when he was, you know, famously almost made it to 100, but when he was like 96, they said you could wake him up, he could be sound asleep on an airplane and you could wake him up and he could do 10 minutes.

Like, because that thing doesn't go away. Uh-huh. You know, I mean, I know that God knows what'll happen to me, but whenever, if I'm in a coma and any of my writers come by or people come by and poke me, I will start doing a bit. And then they'll kill me. Yeah.

Then they'll stop. But what is that? I mean, we just, that's... I think it's... Doesn't go away. Yeah. No, she was just, I mean, in general, she was a great actress.

It means she could do drama or comedy, but she was so brilliant this this sort of thing and and and we just it's just been a very happy family Matt Bomer and an actor named Nathan Lee Graham who are sensational and Matt who I feel like he's gonna be the the revelation for a lot of people because you know, he's a big handsome glute, but also a wonderful serious actor, but he's riotously funny in there. And so it's been, it was an ordeal to get through because, and then on top, we did this

very emotional episode, and we felt like we honored her, and then I started to get vertigo, and I'd had it, since we've done therapy, I thought we'd now get to the more medical side of my life. I can do that, I can handle that as well. Oh, could, really? I think it's a zinc deficiency.

No! Isn't it always? So I had this about a year ago at what's called positional vertigo. And then there's a thing called the Epley maneuver, which sounds like a bad off-Broadway play. The Epley maneuver playing at the village gate. Anyway, and it usually goes away after a couple of days and some drama mean so this time I it really hit me and I went

to an ENT they gave me a cortisone shot but I'm holding on to walls and you're really my equilibrium really thrown and so I Google Vertigo and the first thing that comes up is the Dizzy and Vertigo Institute of Los Angeles in Beverly Hills. And the pictures look nice and they look professional. I'm like a desperate. So I go back, so I make an appointment and I go back to the ENT the next day, Dr. Schnitman, and Dr. Schnitman says, it's not positional vertigo. And I said, well, I'm going to the Dizzy Institute right after this. This isn't real.

Which sounds like it. Schnitman says, don't go to the Dizzy Institute. Like it should be run by Jennifer Coolidge. Yeah, exactly, right. And so he says, that's where I was going to send you. And I said, great. And so I go and it's a very, it's a real serious place. And they were incredible.

And they put me through a series of tests like a NASA astronaut in a chair, you go upside down, all these tests, eye and ear coordination. And they said, what you have is called labrinthitis, which is a virus you get in the inner ear. And I got it in the left inner ear, which was causing severe vertigo and nausea. And so they put me, the ENT put me on Prednisone and then I had to do a series of exercises, you know, and what's called vestibular therapy. And again, we had to cancel a week so I could get over this and now we went,

did the taping we were supposed to do last week, last night. So how are you feeling now? Little dizzy. No, I feel- I picture when you go to the Dizzy Institute, all the furniture is made of rubber. Like, you know, anywhere you fall, it's, you're, boing, boing, boing, you're fine.

I said, I told this to Tina, I ran it to Tina Fey. I told her about the Dizzy Institute. She said, you don't want to go to that parking garage. It's a very dangerous crash. Smash. Anyway, it's, yeah, no, thankfully, thankfully I feel great and it's, yeah, I made a recovery, but it was, it's a weird thing. Yeah.

Yeah, but it's been, I have a dicey history with the multicamp. The first one- Most people do. The first one was not my fault, was Mickey Rooney's series called One of the Boys. Dana Carvey and I did, I'm sure. You've discussed this with him.

It comes up occasionally. Sure. Yeah. I was the biggest star in the world. 1940. Yeah. Bang, zoom. I heard it all. But that was 13 and out.

Then I did an episode of Frasier and I was nominated for an Emmy. They said, if you ever want to do this, we'd love to develop something for you. I said, okay. They had won the Emmy five years in a row. We did, it was not the right fit, 13 and out. Then I did a show for CBS, Jeff Richmond, an old friend. Wonderful writer from Modern Family.

He wrote a show, did not work out. Uh, and no, you didn't really get much support from Les Moonves. Right. Salt of the earth, Les Moonves. So, um, so, you know, I was like, that's, it's just never going to work out for me. That's fine. You know, I tried, you know, it's, it's, it's a miracle when those, when friends or those things come together that way.

And this time I have to say, working with, but these are the best of the best. Jimmy Burroughs is standing there with an eye for comedy that's, you know, it's incredible in how they're putting this all together and the writers and the thing. You're like, I can't believe this. And it feels like, and I love these people, and that's really important at this point in my life. Yes, yes. That we're, as Marty says, it's about the hang.

Oh, you know, they're an example on, like when I did Only Murders in the Building, they set the tone. Like you feel good about going to work and having fun and doing good work. Those are all people that the minute it starts to get unpleasant, they're all gonna walk. And you're in that category too.

There's no reason at this point for unpleasantness. I mean, that's why I adore doing this. It's not a volume business. We're not cranking out. I'm not talking to three people a night, five nights a week, 40 nights a year. This is people that I love, that I really wanna talk to and have a real conversation with

and get to know a little better. And if this started to turn into, oh God, I don't wanna know you kind of have to because they're moving, okay. Well, they're being real difficult. No, there's no reason anymore. Yeah, yeah. And you get, in this format, you're getting something else.

Yes, this is nice. This is a real, much more real conversation than when you're playing to an audience. Yes. I wanna wrap this up because I have to, and we've gone much longer than we normally do, which is always an indication that I'm having the time of my life.

And I have one wish for you is that I, when I brought up a little while ago in the interview, are you able to own sort of what you've achieved? You said, well, I've been very lucky and I did it. And I say, yes, that's all true. And that's the great perspective to have, but you're also a crazily talented person who has integrity and you're a very sensitive person

and you have made this happen. And I just wanna leave that little nugget with you and hope that you can hang onto it and then go hate yourself five minutes from now. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, well, will you be my friend? No, no, no. Just, just no.

I don't see it. I really don't see an upside. I don't see an upside, you know. I know, I thought I was pushing it, but I, you know. No, no. I was just going by the title of the podcast. No, it's a fucking gimmick. God bless you and thank you. Bless you, thank you so much. I was just going by the title of the podcast. No, it's a fucking gimmick.

God bless you and thank you. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnik. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, and Brit Kahn.

You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend,

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