Creatives Grab Coffee - Building a Dual-Focused Video Production Company | Creatives Grab Coffee 76

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

In this episode of Creatives Grab Coffee, we sit down with Rob Kaczmark, founder of Spirit Juice and Behold, two video production companies that serve distinct niches. Spirit Juice specializes in faith-based content, while Behold caters to commercial clients. Rob shares his journey of identifying these unique markets, the challenges of running a dual-brand company, and how his team grew to 25+ members. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction and Meet Rob Kaczmark 02:18 - Spirit Juice and Behold: A Dual-Focused Company 03:00 - Why Separating Faith-Based and Commercial Clients Works 04:00 - Rob’s Faith Journey and Starting Spirit Juice 06:40 - Overcoming Early Challenges in Faith-Based Video Production 10:30 - Growing a Team and Leadership Lessons 14:00 - Finding and Owning Your Niche in Video Production 22:10 - The Impact of a 360-Degree Feedback Review 30:00 - Adjusting to Economic Shifts and Business Growth Strategies 36:00 - The Three Stages of a Successful Video Project 44:00 - Collaborating with Clients for Long-Term Success 49:04 - Fostering Company Culture with Personal EngagementSPONSORS:Canada Film Equipment: www.CanadaFilmEquipment.comAudio Process: www.Audioprocess.ca🎵 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vHd8BdbkMQITFZmDJ0bo9🍏 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/creatives-grab-coffee/id1530864140 🎞️Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONS – https://www.lapseproductions.comTo learn more about the show, visit: https://www.creativesgrabcoffee.com/

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, the podcast on the business of video production. Creatives Grab Coffee is hosted by Dario Nuri and Kirill Lazerov from Labs Productions. Our goal is to share knowledge and experiences from video production professionals around the world. Whether you're a freelancer looking to start your own business or a seasoned business owner aiming to scale your company, this is the show for you. Join us as we develop a community of like-minded creatives looking to learn and help each other grow. Welcome to the business of video production.

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Before we get started with the show, let's go over today's sponsors. Do you have a shoot in Toronto? Do you need crew or a strong production partner to help you with your project? Laps Productions is one of the top production companies in Toronto and your go-to video partner. With our strong creative skills and extensive network, we can help you achieve your goal. Laps Productions is able to offer you production services, white label services, or finder fees for project handoffs.

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And now let's begin the show. Welcome everybody to another episode of Creatives Grab Coffee. Today we got Rob Casmark, not Jazzmark, Casmark, from Spirit Juice and Behold. So kind of like a dual company here. So Rob, give us a little backstory about you and your two companies. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's awesome just to hang out with you guys.

So the two companies, similar to any business, I think it's important to have your niche. So Spirit Juice focuses on our faith-based clients and Behold focuses on our more commercial secular clients. And I think we try to kind of have it all under one umbrella at the beginning, but then it sort of waters down. Their faith-based clients like,

because we speak that language and understand that, and then our commercial clients don't really care about that, and sometimes it maybe doesn't appeal to them and then vice versa on the commercial side. So I think you know for us it was important that we separated the two and we have kind of a distinction both in the brand, the look. On the back end you know it works very similar you know I think a well-oiled machine is well-oiled machine but on the outward side you know we try to serve

those demographics a little differently. It's very interesting that kind of niche because most of the time when people talk about niches, they think of, you know, different industries, different types of content, animation videos, live action videos, but having one specifically for commercial and one for faith-based. So just to kind of clarify for our audience, that's kind of like with religious organizations specifically. Yes. Okay. How did that kind of come out to be? Like you're the first that has that kind of niche slash focus that we've ever talked to. So give us a little backstory on that. So I grew up, you know, I'm a cradle Catholic and I grew

up, you know, going to church because my mom forced me to And then eventually I started to like go because I you know wanted to a little bit But I always noticed like all this stuff in church was like super boring That like the media that they were, you know, whether it's videos or graphics and I always you know Complained to the people around me like the youth ministers at times like why isn't stuff looking any better? Just like well, I don't know, why don't you do that? And I was like, well, no, that's okay. But then eventually I was like, all right, well, I'll dabble with this.

And this is like, this goes back to like gateway computers, like this is like old, old stuff, you know, Windows, I don't even know, like pre 98. And just like messing around with things and then starting to get a little bit of a knack for it. And people started to, you know, like a little bit. So time went by I did that in high school, college and then realizing there was really a gap in that market like being around like a lot of like Catholic and faith-based stuff in the media is pretty terrible especially compared to just like secular stuff or

commercial stuff and I was like there's an opportunity here to serve you know I have I was very passionate about trying to like elevate the the work that the church does and The people that support it and so I thought you know what? Maybe I can do this and you know, most people thought my dad included thought I was crazy because it's like there's no He tells me there. He really respected it and he said yeah, he said look how much we swear in here Can I swear? Oh, you can do whatever you want. It's secular here, so you could go ahead. Okay, good, he's like, you got a lot of balls to do that, son.

And I always appreciate that, because my dad's just like the hardest worker I know. And so, you know, early on, the first five years, it was really hard, because no one wanted, the church and stuff, they didn't want to spend money on media, they didn't really see the value in it. So it was just a grind. I mean, I worked seven days a week just doing everything myself, trying to teach it.

I also didn't go to school for filmmaking. I just was like one of those ambitious kids that were like, ah, I could, I could figure it out myself. And so I just taught myself it as I was, as people were paying me to do the work for them And so it took a while But eventually sort of carved out a niche and I like to think that you know At least in the Catholic space people think of a spirit you says more of the you know The top people are creating, you know videos and so you want a high quality video spirit use in the Catholic space and any other sectors, you know, I don't know how well known we are but

You know the niche I would say the sub niche that we have within that is more on the documentary side. So we have done narratives and narratives are fun and all that stuff, but the documentary, like the storytelling, telling people's stories, that's something really, I think, honed both on behold and for spirit use. So when did you diverge from just focusing, because there's two companies, when did you when did you diverge from you know, just focusing or like because there's two companies when did they split? We try to split it in like 2011 and it was it was called capture capture creative And I started like an LLC for that and stuff and then there was too many like other

Companies out there that was similar to capture And then it was just it just sort of was like, hi, this just isn't working. So we fizzled that out. And then probably like 2018, we're like, well, let's just do as a DBA. I actually didn't know what a DBA was, which was doing business there. So apparently, at least in the States that you can, you could have like up to five companies, I think that are DBA. That number might be off. So don't quote me. This is not legal advice. That you could have under that same sort of name, like the same EIN number.

And so I was like, okay, well, that makes sense. Let's do another, you know, it's just, and then we landed on the name Behold, because basically it was the only URL we can find, we are Behold, that seemed like it wasn't, you know, that kind of was cool. And then we really tried to split that a little bit and like have, you know, we have a different creative director for that than we do for the

Spirit Juice side, uh, and try to like, you know, think of things a little bit differently in that capacity. And, um, yeah, it's interesting seeing both sides of stuff, like working in the commercial side. I also have a little bit of background, um, back in like, uh, gosh working in the commercial side. I also have a little bit of background back in like in the 90s I guess at this point I was like 15 or 16 but I was into to BMX and at church is kind of a random story but basically guys people knew I was into BMX especially the guy at church so I reached out to him and said hey we're filming some commercial do you know any

people that do bike stuff we're doing a messenger. So it was my CCD teacher. He was just like, teaches religion. Reached out to me, long story short, I go do an audition. Turns out it was for Marshall Fields at the time, which was like a big thing. It was a union job. So I landed the gig. I had no experience in acting or anything like that.

And next thing I know, like within like a couple weeks time, I was a SAG actor, in a huge thing downtown, big stuff. And then I started doing, for about a year or two, doing that. So actually my first entry into the industry was in front of the camera, sort of unwillingly in a way,

I had no ambition, it just was like, I was good at bike tricks and apparently charismatic enough to be on camera to do a few things. I eventually kind of took a step back just being in front of the camera wasn't necessarily it's like it's an interesting life I'll say that much is an interesting life to being in front of the camera being in front of the camera like kind of at that level I was by no means famous or anything of that capacity but just like you're really good you it's all about you like all about you all the time.

And like, you don't land an audition and it's like, you feel terrible. And it's just like this, like, it's, I give, I give actors a lot of credit cause it's, it's hard to keep going, like the perseverance you must have. So, you know, as behold starting kind of seeing that both sides of stuff, cause the, the, the Catholics or the faith based side is, it's a little bit of a bubble.

It's kind of like the wild west. There's not like, there's not a ton of people doing stuff. There's not like as many sort of like expectations that you would find in the commercial side. And so once we started going back into the commercial side, at least like very more intentionally with Behold, I started to kind of see those two worlds come together, like the early days of stuff and the unions

and all that stuff. And then, and then that, and so it was interesting. And it was just interesting like being the early days of stuff and the unions and all that stuff. And then that, and so it was interesting. And it was just interesting being on that side of stuff, being kind of like the producer side and seeing these young, ambitious people that want to make a name for themselves. So I don't know, I feel like I'm going in different circles, but it's been fun and it's actually been, it'll be 17 years been in business next week. So that's a long time.

Yeah, it flies by. It sounds like you've gone through so many different parts of the industry and definitely gotten experience from both sides of the aisle. Like I had a similar experience as well, like being in front of the camera for a little bit, but same thing. It wasn't for me, not an area that I really wanted to explore further because one of the

big things about acting is that a lot of factors that might determine your future are things that are out of your control. And that's why a lot of people don't like to stick with it for long because you really need a huge perseverance to be able to deal with that. But you know, like you, we like being behind the camera now as well. One thing I was actually curious about like on Spirit Juice side, do you find that there's a big market for that in terms of like other production companies also working in that space? Or is it like other companies just do a little bit of that here and there? Are you like the only one that has like a very targeted portfolio for that? Like how is that market like? I feel like in the in the

Catholic side we're probably we might be the largest in the sense of like the size of our company because we're about like 25-30 employees that focus purely on the Catholic stuff. There's other there's probably like four or five other groups a little. There's other, there's probably maybe like four or five other groups, a little bit smaller. And you know, there's a handful of sort of like two, three person sort of like small companies that target that. There's not that, despite there being like,

with like 50 million Catholics, there's not that much Catholic work out there. I think Catholics think of things, I don't think they see the value in video as much as I think like maybe us do, like, or like the rest of the world. I think, you know, it's, books are still sort of like top tier.

Like it's the highest quality, the highest like tier of media in like Catholic side of things is books still, I feel like. When you take a layer back and go more just like the Protestants, which would be like just non-Catholic. So anyone else that just is like Christian, I think there's a lot of competition there. I think there's a lot of groups that sort of like do that and sort of at a really

high caliber, I think the highest caliber you're probably seeing is sort of like Angel Studios, which does like the chosen series and, and stuff. I guess that's a little bit different because they do more stuff for, um, for like distribution in that capacity as opposed to like work for hire, but it's yeah, it's, it's a challenge. I would say the hardest part, like the, the, the interesting thing is like, we'll do like a video that's say like a, a four minute profile video.

You know, you interview someone, you're spending two days, you're interviewing, you get some B-roll and whatever. That project in a faith-based side would probably, maybe runs around 20,000 or something, give or take if you're traveling. And the same thing on the commercial side is easily 70 or 80,000. I would say some of these larger brands

and they're just like, oh, I mean, that's not all of them. But it's just funny seeing how some of them, oh, it's just funny seeing like how some of them like they're like oh it's just a low budget thing we only got like 70 or 80 thousand you're like on the faith based side that's like high budget and so just the difference but like you know oftentimes because of that higher cost there's this higher expectation so every you know detail in that has to be a certain way and there's just like you know just certain customizations that, um, you know, you wouldn't find on the smaller side.

So, um, yeah, it's interesting. It's, it's definitely different. Uh, when you kind of look at the two from that side. So eventually you have like a 25 person team. Yeah. So we have, uh, our headquarters, which most people work out of, we have a few people that are remote. Our headquarters, which most people work out of, we have a few people that are remote. It's in Allsip, probably about maybe like 20,000 square feet here.

It's an industrial condo, so it's like a... It's very small. Yeah, no, this is tiny. We started, we started for the first five years, I was in a 300 square foot room that I basically slept, I just lived out of and, uh, and everything was there. And then we're like, it was, it was a slow growth and like, it, it is, it is wild looking now where we're at, but it's been a, like a, a very painful, slow process. And so, um, I'm very grateful.

Um, I also like with, with, you know, great, uh, great power comes great, uh, bills to pay. So, you know, there are days where I'm like, I do miss that 300 square foot place because the, the, just the overhead was a lot less. Um, so it's, it's a hard part about like, I think any business, but maybe in video it's like you build a machine so big and then you have to maintain that machine and you have to either kind of keep growing it like I believe that like in business you're either growing or you're dying like you're either growing and getting bigger or you're you're

getting smaller it's very hard to stay at that's that like sweet spot so I think like we might find that sweet spot like this is great but I mean you got to keep turning ahead and sometimes you get more work than you can take and then you're like struggling. And sometimes you don't have enough work and you're trying to struggle to like pay people. Um, it's, it's hard. And I think like the hard part is like, we get into this because we like doing creative things, but now, you know, I'm not doing that much creative stuff. I'm more like managing people and issues and stuff.

And it's like, you know, but I think it just everything has as a cycle and a turn. And so like just trying to be, you know, for me just appreciating where I'm at and just being grateful, you know, for what's around and not trying to like focus on I wish I was going back to this or I wish I had this or that so Whatever cuz you like to have 25 people is means that you're pretty well developed as a company I'm just wondering what kind of issues did you face? Getting to this point like as you're mentioning how you're either growing or you're dying like what were you doing? You must have faced some moments where your business was shrinking. So how did you overcome those?

the face on some moments where your business was shrinking. So how did you overcome those? It was hard. I would almost kind of break us break it down to like three different phases of business. The first phase and these numbers are just kind of like, you know, relative, it could fluctuate probably a decent amount, but like, you know, up to say, 300,000 in revenue, or maybe even like five or 600,000, you're doing'm doing everything myself so I you know and maybe I have like a freelancer here there for a certain project but I'm doing everything myself I because I don't trust anyone to do anything as good as I can do it once I started to hire someone out which took five no six years till I hired up the first employee I trusted someone to do something that wasn't me that and then

maybe even take it You know do parts and then and then after you know kind of get to like maybe One or two million revenue could be a little bit higher too Well, I have a lot of people doing stuff, but they're all reporting to me because I don't trust anyone to like report to someone else So what now where this phasor I'm at now is like I don't I usually have two layer one or two layers of people Like people are like the editors or the directors and stuff they report to someone else and those people report to me so now I'm working through people and I'm not like working through people in a negative way but like I'm

working like I have to inspire the people that they report to and that to me has been the biggest challenge because I could see a problem like okay revenue is going down I could fix that like I could literally go and Y, or Z, but then I'm overstepping the person that I put in charge to do that. And so how do I work through that person to inspire them to, you know, to want to fix that problem? And that's, that's, that's a, I'm at level three right now. Oh, I'm at that level trying to figure that out.

And there's years that I do well and there's years that I don't. The one interesting thing I did is I had like a business coach for like a short amount of time and he's like you should do a 360 review on yourself. Meaning like I picked out like 10 people at the company and they basically told me how terrible I was. It was a very sobering thing. It was like 10 pages of all the stuff that they thought that I did poorly and I read it and I was probably depressed for about a week, but he's like, listen, this is your blueprint on how to improve. And so, you know, for me, it was like being aware of like, okay, where could I improve? And also at the same time, like there, I don't know if you guys ever watched Silicon Valley,

but TJ Miller plays, this is one character in there. He says, he's like every company has to have an asshole. And I think there's, there's some truth to that. And, and, and the trick is like, trying, like I, as a leader, you don't want to be the asshole, but you also have to make harder decisions sometimes that people don't see. Um, whether it's, uh, for their betterment, for the company's betterment. And so it's, it's So it's a challenging road and the more you grow, the reward for good work is more work.

The problems you solve, the reward for that is bigger problems. So every problem that I'm trying to solve now, my reward is actually just more problems. But that's kind of what we sign up for. You know what I mean? But what was like some of the stuff that your employees were, I guess, suggesting slash criticizing? And also anonymously, right? Anonymously.

Yeah, yeah. They write it in a way I'm like, oh yeah, okay. I know who that is. Was it in a box? Was it in a box, The like a suggestion box that you gave them like walked around? It's like, here put in your suggestion. They did. They wrote it. It was all digital, but I could tell by the way like how people wrote stuff. By who sent by who sent it like there's the email signature. Yeah, that's that'd be good. What are some of the things? Gosh.

One of it was I didn't let people fail. I gave them a thing and then I would try then to fix it for them. So I didn't give them the autonomy to do the thing without letting them see the problem and they couldn't fix it themselves. So I would come in then before it was the problem and they couldn't fix it themselves so I would come in then Before it was like, you know too late and then I would fix it and they're like no like let like Because there is something to be said one of the one that guys he told me directly after this. He's like yeah early on Uh, or not even really early on but he's like, you know I would edit something and he's he's one of my top guys top guys so talented more talented than, than me. Uh, but he goes, you know, I will know after I get done editing it,

you would just come in and tweak it. So I'm not going to take it all the way because like you're going to do something to it. He goes, but once you stopped, once you stopped coming in after and just said, just finish it. And when I told him just to finish it, he would put that at extra on in and really get it to sync. Cause you know that like difference, like you're working on something and an edit and it's at 90% and it's probably

fine and but if you put that just a little bit more there's just that extra polish to it that just really makes it sing and so when it's on that person I think giving trusting people like when it's on them to like they're the last stop that they will step rise the challenge. Not everyone will and some people won't and then you have problems and the worst one is like you know you saw it it became a problem it was became a big problem the client called and was like complaining and you just kind of have to take it on the chin and be like I'm sorry you know I know, I know. And it, those are the hard ones when you, when you, when you see the problem and you know it, you don't do anything because

you're trying to allow the person to grow in that, that comes up. I'm trying to think of other ones people have said. Before you do, before you do, I actually have a follow-up question to that specifically. Like when you said that you jumped in to help with the edit, does that mean like, for example, you took the files and added a little bit of editing on your own or were you just adding in some comments? It's like, oh, this shot doesn't work here. Maybe do this or swap like that.

Like how much did you take over basically? At that time, I would go into the edit. So he would do it and I would go in and I would just tweak it and stuff. Now if I do watch and edit, I just give notes, which is not, you know, it's only if things that I'm invested in or I wanna see. Projects go in and out without me, without any of my approval or anything like that.

I had to sort of like, you know, just like, you gotta sort of, I had to keep taking myself out of things. So like letting it run without me. So like a project can go from start to finish without me saying or doing anything There are projects where I do, you know Based on the relationship or whatever. Maybe I may have a little bit of input, but that's really the goal of the business I mean if you want it to grow and have it be self-sustaining. If you wanted to be a creative in it, then sure, you know, like, you know, be part of the whole thing. But if you want it to grow,

you gotta be able to have something go from start to finish without your fingerprint on it at all. What would you say was another big thing that had really helped the business grow as a suggestion from within your team? Focusing on the big picture. I lot of times I just focus on the weeds. I'm very into organization. If you came here you'd be like, oh you that was an understatement. I have labels on everything, even on my

house. Everything's labeled. I like to zip tie all my cables and just have it be very neat and organized. And one of the days I was working late, basically underneath one of the editor's desk, zip tying cables, because it bothered me that they were not, like there was just a mess of cables and they weren't zip tied. And I felt like no one else knows how to zip tie them

as good as I know how to zip tie them. I still would agree, I still would agree I'm a zip tie-er, a cable-tier. And one of the employees, she was a producer. She came in and she's like, Rob, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm zip tying. I was like, oh, zip tying the cables. What are you? She's like, is that really the bad issue? In one way, she was kind of a little like overstepped like how she said it, but I always tell her, I appreciate she did it. She's like, is that really what the owner of the company should be doing right now? And of course no one else knows how to zip time as good as I do.

And, um, and then I thought about it a lot as I'm still thinking about, cause this is probably like five, six years ago. Um, and no, it's not. So I was not focused on the big picture. So that was an example from five or six years ago, but when I did that, that, that 360 that came up a lot still. Like I'm focusing on these small details that are not necessarily like important. Like they're important to me, but to the big picture, they're not.

And so when I started to focus on the big picture, like growth of the company, building relationships with people that are beyond sort of just like, they're just like coming to us for different things. Then I saw, you know, more growth in the company and, and you have to grow. Like if you, if you own a company, whether it's big or small, you have to keep evolving and you can't be the, what you started is, is not, you know, you have to, you have to grow beyond that. Um, because people look to you as a leader of your, of the company and you

have to inspire them and guide them and instruct them and sometimes correct them. And it's not, it's, it could be a lonely path at times. It could be a lonely path, but I think for me and if you're built that way, it's the most rewarding. There's a quote, I don't even know what it's called. Can I try to find it? I couldn't find the clip, but I don't know quote it. Cause I tried to find the, I couldn't find that the clip, but, um, I don't

know if you guys are Lord of the Rings fans, uh, or not. All right. Good. Good. Good. Otherwise I was going to sign off. No, the Lord of the Rings is great. So Peter Jackson, when he filmed the first, the, the original trilogy, as

you probably know more than I do, they filmed it all together, right? So they filmed all the old movies together, which took about two years, give or take. And there's an interview, uh, that with Peter Jackson, the director, and they said, you know, how did you do this? Like you guys, most of you guys spent like more than one or two birthdays while you're still filming and you're away from home and all this stuff. He goes, isn't it hard? And Peter said, yeah, it's been very hard, very, very challenging. And I said, whatever you thought about quitting, you know, like just stopping. He's like, you know what I have, I've thought about quitting many times. And then I would ask myself this one question. Is there anything

else I would rather be doing right now? He said, every single time I would answer, no, there's nothing else in the world that I'd rather be doing than filming this project. I just love it so much. And so I think about that a lot because there's definitely times where I feel like quitting, where whatever it is is just overwhelming. I say, okay, like in my head, all right, I'm going to quit. Like what else would I do? I can't think of anything else. So I think for me that's been the motivation to keep going through all those hard times. And with big picture stuff, that includes doing things like this podcast, right? You know People the biggest this is his biggest moment I know it's not as exciting as zip tying cables, but you know

There's something therapeutic about zip-tie cables like they're nice and organized and then like just clipping them with some nice wire cutters I recommend the Milwaukee wire cutters. Those are pretty... He even has his own branded wire cutters he knows. The way you like zip tying the cables, I like organizing our Google Drive. Ah. That's what calms me down. That and doing bookkeeping, just like coloring all the expenses and money coming in. I don't know, something therapeutic about that. When I'm trying to do work,

but I don't want to do work at the same time, that's kind of what I do. Yeah. It's like the thing where it's like, it's similar where it's like, oh, like I need to organize the office or I need to organize the camera gear or the equipment.

There are like even times where I've gone to the storage locker to just be like, all right, this place needs to be adjusted a little bit. We got to take out some fluff, put some things on Kijiji, sell off old gear, you know? Stuff that's not really pressing sometimes, you know? That's the essential. You're doing stuff that is on the to-do list of the business, but it's like item number like 155 compared to the other ones that you're doing.

It's like you should be working on that video edit that's due in two weeks rather than, you know, like organizing things. How was your growth as a business? Like did you have like steady growth each year to get to where you are now or did you experience like bursts of like accelerated expansion? There was, I would say it was very steady. The strange enough, we had a burst in. I don't know if you guys experienced too in like 2020 with COVID and stuff. There was like a, uh, obviously that gray one, COVID hit.

There was like not that, but like after there was a lot of like people wanted a ton of video. And so there was like the strange burst there, which honestly was like the most stressful time of owning the business. Cause it was just like, you know, not to get into like that whole thing with like, I had people on both sides of the, you know, everything you could think about COVID,

I had all of them here. And so it was very challenging just to keep, I felt like, I felt like like my family was being tear it apart because there's just like so much, it was just spent like based on people's opinions on different stuff. And I'm just like, try not to have an opinion that I shared and just like keeping everyone together and just like going forward. And so it was, it was hard because like we had a lot of work and like, I don't know. So, uh,

but that was, that was a kind of a, a, a jump there. jump there and then after that, you know I would say it was like kind of like one of these and then plateaued and then I would say like this year We even down a little bit. I think I don't just it's been a little bit Like and people they're not saying it's a recession, but I feel like people are everything's costing more We're definitely in a recession. I know they don't want to say that, but I think we can all agree like we're going through it. There will be a panic. That's why if they say the words, there will be a panic, but there has definitely been

a bit of a decline this year. I mean, luckily, there's been like somewhat of a consistency in some work, but at the same time, you can feel when a business is like, or when the market is like going down, you're getting less calls. Usually that's like one of the biggest indicator, you know, just general outreach kind of slows down like last year. I think, I think we were having at least one or two different leads on a daily basis calling at the very least.

Whereas like now it's like every other day almost. Right. And it, I mean, granted half leads that you get these days are like, oh, boost your SEO, or here I am, a voiceover artist. But when the spam dies down, you know you're in a recession. We also noticed that a lot of the people that are reaching out, we're dealing with a lot smaller budgets from what I saw. So we're trying to like still get the work, but we're trying to have, we're having to

like readjust our pricing structure a little bit. Or the offerings even like, like it's a little, it's a matter of like adjusting offerings based on what people can afford and what they're looking for and helping people get the max value of what they can with their budgets, right? Because at the same time, it's like if a lead is coming to you with a certain budget range, you want to see what you can do with that rather than just be like, oh, that's too small. Let's move on, right? Because again, when times are slower, you have to see what you can do. In this economy, we're way more hesitant

to pass up opportunities. You don't know where it's going, right? So it's like, let's just try to make it work. Let's see. Because sometimes what people don't realize with when leads are reaching out, they're reaching out for a specific type of project that might be lower in that instance.

And when you complete something that they're happy with with that range, when they get more funding to do more work you will get more consistent work for them. We've had a few clients like that where they've come with something relatively small and then all of a sudden now it's become like a several month working relationship. Like one client that we have a shoot tomorrow, for example like we were now onto our fourth project with them over the last four months which is

great so we wanted like you never know where a lead or an opportunity can go and the key thing is not to just dismiss it you know explore it see where it could go because you never know yeah 100% one of our largest clients started is just like a one-day coverage. Like, you know, covering an event for a couple hours. They liked it and then, you know, now we do a ton of work with them and so I couldn't agree more. I think it's, there are certainly a handful ones that like they're low budget and that's the highest they're ever gonna go and you sort of like, you know, you're

trying to milking something that's just not. But at the same time, for everyone there's like that, there's another one that like has a ton of budget. And this is sort of just like their entry point. Because I know for me, like if I'm going to try working with someone new for whatever it is, I'll start small. Like I'm not going to jump in and just, you know, go spend a ton of money if I don't, if I'm not comfortable. So I think being, you know, honoring that project ton of money if I don't, if I'm not comfortable. So I think being, you know,

honoring that project, giving them a good experience. I think that's, that's what I've tried to do, you know, with the businesses. Like not only are you going to get a good video from us, but the process is not going to be painful because, you know, we could probably all think of a lot of different filmmakers that think this song, How Great the Art is written for them. And, you know, their opinion trumps whatever like the client thinks and they're not obedient to that project and so there was hard to work with and they don't people don't want to work with them because they just feel like they don't listen and so like the I think for me is like always like the client knows best and if the client wants so one

of the I have a mentor of mine told me this really, really early on. Um, he said, listen, if a client wants, uh, if they want purple pants in their video, it, you have to give them purple pants. Even if you don't think purple pants is a good idea. I'm like, well, why is like, because they're paying you and that's what you want. It's the same thing of like, you know, when you go to a restaurant, if you order a hamburger and they bring you out a salad, and the salad's better, don't worry. It's like, no, but I want a hamburger. So like, we forget that in the video industry because we're creatives and we're so smart and stuff. That's a good example. I think early on, a lot of people forget that. And I was never perfect with it, but I think early on a lot of people forget that and I was never perfect with it, but I think

I've tried to ground myself in that reality. What if it's like a ridiculous request or a crazy request like, I want a burger, but remove the patty. You know? You're like, okay, okay. But there's ways to do it too. You're like, okay, I can remove the patty. No problem. Here's what that might look like.

Are you sure is that what you want? And sometimes, you know, sometimes you give them that burger without the patty and they're like, this is delicious. Thank you. And sometimes you're like, why, why am I getting this? And you're like, cause you asked for it. Like I don't want this. Give me the patty back.

And you're like, okay. Yeah. Sometimes you have to, sometimes you have to go with your client. Like you said, a lot of the Sometimes you have to go with your client. Like you said, a lot of the time you have to go with your client's requests, even if to you, it might sound crazy. You might give them suggestions like, I think it might be good to do this,

but if you'd like to do that, no problem. And then they're like, yeah, let's continue with what I requested. You do it. And then they're like, oh, maybe this didn't work. Might be good to move on to the other thing. Cause sometimes, like we've talked about this in previous episodes where sometimes clients,

they can't visualize what you visualize. Like we're in this industry because we are able to see things much later. And that's what clients typically pay us for. But it's hard sometimes to communicate that to them because I mean, one way you help obviously is with your pre-production briefs, your storyboards, your song choices,

your shot lists and everything, and then that's how you communicate it. But even still, sometimes clients can't always see that. And especially when it's clients that have to add in feedback and notes from higher ups on their end or other people or other key stakeholders that have very arbitrary requests and things like that.

They're also trying to make them happy. And you never know when there's a request from a client, usually there's a reason for it. So you gotta try to do your best to accommodate that as much as you can. Yeah, 100%. One of the things that I try to remind clients too, especially when I'm talking to them,

is that a project gets made three times, in pre-'m talking to them, I said a project gets made three times in pre-production, in production, and post-production. And so we're going to do our best in pre-production to kind of lay it all out and plan for the best. But then also like on set, there might be just the interviewee says something really like inspiring that like, oh, this is great. We have to include this now. Or there's like the serendipity of the moment where there's just like, you know, the grandpa hugging this little child or something. And it's like,

Ooh, this needs to be in there. And then a post like, you know, some things that you think are amazing on set, uh, like the client's like so excited about it, like it just doesn't work. And sometimes you got to kill your darlings. So I, I try to encourage it when I can speak to them, if there is sort of this hangup, you know, where they kind of get stuck on something and they're open to having a conversation. But to your point, you gotta listen to them

and they know their audience better than we do. Cause they, like if it's like, they speak to that audience all the time. And so if something that may seem kind of silly or ridiculous to us, makes sense to them because their audience knows that and appreciates that. Especially with subject matter that is completely out of your realm. Like for example, last two days we were doing or I was doing a shoot for a client of ours that deals with purely mathematicians and all they're talking about is mathematics constantly. And in the interviews,

they're talking about certain things where I'm in the interviews, they're talking about certain things where I'm like, I really don't understand the specifics. I understand the general idea, but they're talking about formulas that are so revolutionary with physics. And I'm like, you know what? I'll let the client to kind of like handle like the specific messaging, but I might chime in and say,

oh, what if we said it like this based on what they said, you know? But that, that to your point, they know their audience, they know what they're looking for. They know how people can act and react to certain questions and, and messages. So you got to, your client is your best collaborator when you think about it, right? They're helping you create the content as much as you're helping them to create it as well. Right? Exactly. It's a symbiotic relationship between clients and that's what people have to remember. It's not like, I know some creatives have the like us versus the client type mentality

sometimes, but I feel like once you've become a business owner and you interact more with clients, you realize that there's a very symbiotic relationship from that. One other thing I was actually curious to ask you, and I don't know if this is a thing in the faith-based business, but you said that you specifically work with Catholics. So like, have you thought about expanding to different markets? Like Jewish ones or what is it, or Muslim or any different kinds of religions you know within his there's different ones there's a Protestants there's yeah we work with some Protestant groups too I think the Catholic thing I'm Catholic so I know the the language quite a bit I'm familiar with that I think there's

opportunity I for me you would feel I think a scene in the Christian lane would be like I feel like comfortable in that and speaking that language if like you know Catholics are Christian you know just like that's just a different denomination going outside of that I'm just not familiar enough with it I'm probably the most familiar with like the Jewish tradition just from you know Christianity and different stuff but the other ones I'm just not familiar with, so I feel like it'd be inauthentic for me to come in

and be like, hey, we can do, work for whatever that religion, Hindu or Muslim or stuff, and be like, but I don't even know how to speak that language as far as like. It wouldn't make sense. It wouldn't make sense. And it's almost like a bigger barrier than also then like say if you were going from like one industry to another on the commercial or corporate side of things because like in a

lot of corporate industries There's a lot of similarities in terms of content that is needed and same thing with in in in religious spaces I'm assuming but at the same time it's like it's harder to kind of I Mean, this is what I'm assuming, but at the same time, it's like, it's harder to kind of, I mean, this is what I'm assuming. It's harder to go into different ones that you don't understand as well. But it's like that in any industry. If you don't understand an industry, how would you be able to sell yourself as someone who's an expert on jumping in?

It's easier for corporate, Kjell, because you could just be a generalist and then just go between industries like Like we do. But it's different for when like Faith is involved. I had a question regarding like sales on your end. Like are you still partaking in that? Or do you have like someone else doing that for you? So I have someone that's doing the, we have someone that like they have their position.

I'm still involved. I try to be, if I I can on any of the like initial like onboarding or like someone reaches out in and like I'm part of that being that I'm you know the owner of the company and founder like I've been around like my face is almost a synonymous with the company so I do a lot of stuff where I'm sending you know emails out to people or making a video on social or you know Google Ads and stuff I'm like hey you're looking for a video to do X Y or Z you know we can do that and so I if people reach out from those I try to be on those calls so it's not like you know you get an ad for

something and then you like just talk to someone a random person you know my schedule is busy but not that busy that I can't be in those spots. So at the same time though, I'm usually just there as sort of like a friendly voice. I'll insert a two cents here and there, but the other person that's in that position, she will take it from, okay, I will get, you know, after the call is done, she will create the proposal, she'll send it to him, she'll follow up, she's incentivized to do that financially. So like there's, it's like that's another spot too where I had to take my, it was a hard spot because like I can do this and I can, I feel like I can do it well, but like to do it on a consistent and a growing basis you have to have someone else

doing that. So in theory I could not be on any of those and it would still grow. I think I add some value just based on the relationships and you know being in the the faith-based industry for so long. But I think if you can value just based on the relationships and being in the faith-based industry for so long. But I think if you can find people in there, there's a lot, we get solicited, and I'm sure you guys probably do too, for different companies that can do that. They use your LinkedIn profile or different platforms to send messages out and then you can take those coming in.

But that's time. There's so much time that goes into that. You talk to a client or potential client once or twice, you create a proposal, you make it look really nice, you invest, depending on how much creative you're putting into that proposal, not just visually, but the story and what it's all going to be. And then sometimes it's like, oh, I'm sorry, this is out of our budget. You're like, okay, great. I'm glad I wasted five hours of my time, you know, for that. I mean, it's just how it goes.

It's a lot of times it's a numbers game, even when people are interested. You know, sometimes they're just pricing you. They already know who they're going to go with, but they want to. They have to have two other prices. I mean, if I'm going to get work done just at their office, I always tell the people here, like, get two quotes. I'm not going to go with just one quote. And so, like, everyone kind of does I'm not going to go with just one quote.

And so like everyone kind of does that. It's somewhat par for the course, unless you have such brand equity that you're like, oh no, I'm going like, you know, if you're going to get a new phone and if you're a normal person you're getting an iPhone. You just, you just pissed off like every Android user. But as an iPhone user, I do agree. Well, it's like, okay, my phone's getting old. If you're an iPhone user, you have so much brand equity in that you're going to keep

going with it. And I know it's not the fair example because you're going to keep going with what you have. But the point is unless you have that such high brand equity, you're going to probably get some other stuff. So most like whenever you're providing a proposal to someone, it's probably, you know, the probably also getting similar numbers, even if like they might be your first choice, like they're picking you as their first choice,

but they're still going to get someone else or you might be their second choice. So, you know, I don't know, it just, there's just so much time. And I think for, for me, it's always a challenge of like, where am I spending my time? Am I spending my time on that side and then like some of like the organizational side gets a little bit like less care you know where I could develop more systems or just more vision stuff that gets less time. Like you know it feels like constantly like you're just spinning plates and like okay where is my gonna set my attention so biggest thing for me is trying to structure that with my calendar and say, okay, this time I'm spending,

just doing this, this time I'm just spending doing this. And, you know, try the best you can. I think ultimately you're always like, I'm also a dad too. And so it just, I'm always, I feel like I'm always disappointing someone and I'm just kind of picking who I'm disappointing. So it's either my family or work stuff or other stuff. And so you just have to kind of be okay with that and just try your hardest.

And as long as you put your head in the pillow and feel like you're exhausted because you did everything you could, I think that's kind of all you can ask for. I'm curious also, having now built such a, grown such a big team, you've mentioned that you basically do some aspects with different parts of your team every now and then. How do you engage, what is, not your day to day really, but kind of like, how do you typically engage

your team in general? Because obviously there's a lot of projects that are going on. How are you inspiring them? How are you pushing them? Like, do you do weekly meetings? Do you do, like, certain social interact, like, events with them and things like that? Like, how does that look for Spirit Juice and Behold? So we do, we have, like, we get a look at a week look we have our staff meeting every Monday which everyone's there I say a couple things is there an agenda to that I have

sort of like the two guys that report to me I meet with them once a week as well and so we kind of do a run show of like from financials to logistical stuff and then kind of talk through things and then we have a wider executive team which has maybe like six people it kind of covers that everyone that reports to different people. I meet my office manager once a week to kind of go over through like bills and that logistical stuff.

So there's like, I have placeholders and then I have a few one-on-ones with specific people, basically two people that report to me just to kind of check in and stuff. So there's weekly check-ins with everyone in that capacity and then social stuff. I try to do the best I can. So we do, we have like, on a big picture we have two parties every year. We have a Christmas party, a summer party. We're evering it together. It's just a big social thing and you know that's that's fun.

It's not like, you know, doesn't move the needle that much but everyone's birthday we celebrate. We'd like to celebrate a good amount so we bring everyone together. If it's their birthday, if they why, sometimes people decline because they just don't like the attention. But we'll all gather together, have cake, spend like 30 minutes to an hour just to chat and have fun. And sometimes that's a lot because there's a lot of birthdays in a month. And then new employees too. I still, one of the things I still have my hand in, whether I should or shouldn't, but I just enjoy it. I love photography, I love portraits.

And so everyone's employee, like headshot, I take. And so I get to spend, any new employee I get to spend a little bit of FaceTime doing their headshot. And then the other thing we do is an employee intro video. We started this, we actually started this back when COVID happened, because when a new employee would

come, we, the whole company would sit down for lunch and we just sort of like, you know, chit chat, ask questions and stuff. And then COVID, whatever, like you couldn't, you know, get people together. So I was like, okay, I'm going to sit you down basically in the same chair, the same setup. And I asked some kind of like those Vogue, like 80 questions Vogue videos or whatever, or you know, you ask. So I ask a ton of questions and so I asked them, so I've never get to know them and then we chop it together and kind of make a fun little video and then we put it on our slack

and then everyone kind of gets to know that person and so try to do it like they say like you know scale the unscalable so I try to do things that like if we grew to like 200 people like this would be impossible but we're not 200 people so you know it's a bit of a stretch of my time at certain points, but I think there's a lot of value in that. And all that being said, one of the feedbacks that I still get from people is that I don't spend enough time like interacting. So I'm still not doing it right.

It's like the punchline, but, um, you know, I think just trying different things and adapting based on, you know based on just the current temperature of stuff. I mean, those are all really good little things that you're doing to try to engage them in different ways than just a regular meeting or something. It's almost a more personal way that you're trying to interact with them, especially actually even breaking the ice with newer people especially. Because sometimes it is harder for people that when they join an organization, it's like, I mean, I honestly, I don't know, because I, Dario and I, we haven't been exactly employees of another company.

Over 10, over 10 years, over 10 years. So I wouldn't know what that would be like, but I can imagine that it could be intimidating for some people, especially when they come face to face with the big boss and then the big boss is someone as friendly as you and just kind of breaking down their barriers right away. Who's also zip tying cables on their desk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the boss is zip tying their cables on day one on their desk. It's like, you got to give me more cables cables. Come on more cables. None of this wireless

I can just imagine it's like oh, why is there a tech here? It's like I'm not the tech Yeah, that's that little too true a little too true There's gonna be no now I can never zip tie things without thinking of you now, Rob. That's what's going to happen. Anytime I'm zip tying something, I'm like, oh, Rob. I love it. What's next for your company? Because you're already at 25 employees.

You must be doing really well financially. Where do you want to go from here? In trying to go more into, so like the way we pay the bills is like people hire us to do videos. So I'm trying to diversify enough into creating our own content that can basically be self-sufficient. And so the main outlet of that has been YouTube. So I also have, there's a sort of a third company, if you will, that's a not-for-profit. So a Spiritus Entertainment Group and that's, it's the mission of that is like faith-based videos for free online. So we have a YouTube channel that puts up videos a couple times a week on there. We also have

a kids YouTube channel. Those ones, thankfully this year they've really started to grow. Like the kids one has like 500,000 subs. The other one's got like 300,000 subs. So it's been, yeah, it's been good. Yeah, it's taken some time, I will say. Like there is a long time where it was like 5,000 subs, 8,000 subs, and then like, you know, we started to get, I guess so. Like I think it was a combination of just like

different relationships we built and like running, either writing some Google ads or running like, you know, email signups and people like sharing that. So, and then I think a little bit of virality too with different stuff. So right now they're not big money makers by any means, but I'm trying like the, where I see us going is I'd love to continue the client work.

I think client work is good. I also think it keeps kind of humble. Because if you're just creating stuff that just like everyone loves, like you just be like, you know, you think you're just, you know, too cool for school. So I still, I like the opportunity to serve people and create client stuff. But I'd like to like augment that with like even half of our revenue. That maybe a dream is from like our own content primarily from YouTube channels you know where we're creating stuff like

People they probably ask you guys too. It's like oh you want to gonna make a narrative feature film Like is that like the dream, you know, that's like that's a filmmaker Like if that's not the dream then like, you know people don't like take you serious I think that would be great. But the people that have known that made features that are narratives I think that would be great, but the people that have known that made features that are narratives, it sucks like three or four years of their life. Like it's, it's in, in some of them, it was a success and other ones it wasn't. And it was just sort of like, you know, and even ones like, I knew a few people that like, they got in theaters, they had a theatrical run, but it just didn't, some of them did good. And some of the other ones like didn't. And it was just like, do I, I don't, I don't have that much energy to do that.

And so I, I'm feeling more passionate about like shorter form content and trying to grow that. Cause like if a big feature hits, yeah, you could make some serious money, but you could also lose it all too. And so it, to me, it's like, it's like betting it all on black, right? Like, okay, like betting it all on black, right? Like, okay, a million dollars on black. It's like, I'd rather bet like $500, you know, slowly and build that up. And I think like, what's interesting about YouTube to me, or just like building up your own sort of like distribution

is like you have an audience and you can kind of do like, I won't say anything, but if you have a loyal audience, no matter what you create, if you then are gonna create a narrative,, you have a built-in platform and group of people that will support it. And so the hard part is it's that consistency, posting weekly or more than once a week. So that's a challenge, but I enjoy that. That's where I see life coming. And I hope in the years to come you know we can I got like the the silver plaque

I'm going for that that gold one a million subscribers. That's like nice nice How long did it take to get to half a million? For one of the channels ten years Or no no for three hundred thousand ten years the kids one actually grew for the fastest So we had like ten thousand subs for probably about a year and then this past year It just exponentially grew and so that was it. I would say we grew probably about 450,000 subs in maybe say six months time. That's crazy. Wow What do you think attributed that specifically?

Because that's such a huge growth in such a short time. Lent was a big thing. So Lent for Christians or Catholics, like 40 days leading up to Easter. And it's like, there's just a lot of rituals and stuff that go with that, and fasting, and different things. And so we create a ton of content in that time. And people I think were thirsty for it.

And there's not, I would say one of the wider open spaces, especially on YouTube, there's not much faith-based stuff, specifically Catholic stuff for kids. And so we filled that gap. So it slowed down, unfortunately. I was like, oh man, we're gonna hit a million by October, you know? It doesn't look like that way. So it ebbs and flows.

And I think like it was actually, it was kind of depressing because it was like we were growing so much and then like, once we stopped like growing, but we were still like, we were doing this. And then once we started doing like this, I was like kind of depressed, but I was like, we're still doing good. But like you get it, you have like, I I don't know you get like a certain like used to growth at a certain thing and if you don't keep that up then you're like you feel like you're just like a loser and so being like able to like go through like that like just the

ebbs and flows of it because it all ebbs and flows and you know and it's once I mean this is good but it's probably years ago, but one of our YouTube channels got deleted and we had like a decent amount of stuff on there. It's like we had like maybe like 2 million views and we probably had like 20 or 30,000 subscribers and I don't know. I logged in one day and was like you violated a term of YouTube and it's no longer there and I'd like reached out to them. Yeah, you reached out to them and they just told you they didn't tell you the reason why though

No, they gave me nine is like it was just one of our terms and this is a while ago. This was like Probably 2011 and I was like way back. Yeah, so I mean I don't it was a I don't know if Google Acquired them at that point. They did Google acquired them in like 2006 2007 Like YouTube came out in 2005 and I think Google got them more like 2008 actually. But like I do remember the early 2010s like they were still trying to figure out so many different rules on YouTube side. So if you got something randomly deleted or anything like that, like back then it was like the Wild West. You didn't know what was happening. They had illegal TV shows and movies like everywhere.

So they were scrambling to try to figure out ways to kind of like combat that, combat other things. Like it's, I don't know. You probably used a copyrighted song or something. Something like that. Like, yeah, everyone used copyrighted music back then. And because we didn't know, like when we first started making videos,

we just used whatever song we wanted thinking it was fine and then when you started realizing oh you should actually be paying for this stuff it's like okay now we got to do it properly how's the how's the pay from the YouTube like from YouTube what's it called AdSense is that the one they used so we haven't the one that has the biggest things that kids think, we haven't monetized that yet. Namely because we were trying to, it gets touchy with kids' content too,

and parents, and especially faith-based stuff, because sometimes the ads that are running, so we were trying to kind of go the Patreon route, where, hey, we're doing ad free, but supports on Patreon. We don't really necessarily have a support Patreon. So long story short, I don't know. I can't give you an answer on that one because we haven't run ads. And then quintessentially, we haven't run ads on the other one either because we take

that one's the run through the nonprofit. So we get donations. So that one kind of runs through people supporting it through donations, which is great. And then the kids one, we're trying to figure out the model for that. But why did she want to do Patreon? What was the reason for it? We know we are, but people are. I think Patreon, it's from what I've seen. Like, it's got to follow a certain thing. Like, I think you got to have it for an older crowd in the content, because it's kids content like the kids are gonna watch your go on patreon

It's just gonna be the parents But there's not much incentive for that like I think which does well as certain podcasts do good for patreon They're like for like an adult crowd that they can like is the free podcast on you know whatever and then you get like the Next one on patreon or something where you kind of have a little community, but it's not Even then it doesn't work on Patreon or something where you kind of have a little community, but it's not... Even then it doesn't work, to be honest. Not always.

That's true. We tried it. It failed miserably. It failed miserably. Yeah. Because we originally thought, okay, maybe we need to figure out some way to kind of monetize this podcast in a way to kind of help support it a little bit more. Because in the beginning when we

started it, it took a lot of time from our day to produce an episode, like a lot of time, especially when we were doing everything super manual. Like the very first few episodes, if you look back, we would get together, Dario and I, because it was during the pandemic, just to give you a little quick backstory. We started the podcast because work disappeared for us and we wanted to do something on a weekly basis to keep us sane and give us some kind of consistency, which was nice. So what we did was we would get together

in this tiny office here in my place and set up three cameras and two lights and have our guests on a tiny little laptop in the corridor that would talk to us through Zoom. So our guests would be this pixelated Zoom call and then we would have this production. And it was August and Kirill's place has no AC. So we were sweating. Two grown men with lights on them sweating.

Like can't see the guest. Yeah. But then after like a few, then we realized, you know, let's just do this all virtual. So that started to save some time and we did that. But then the editing was taking a while. The editing takes a while. It's the biggest time consuming part of it. Yeah. Essentially we realized like this show, like what we want want to do with it Like it's hard to monetize something like this, especially at the scale that it is and how specific our niche is So we wanted to figure out a way to kind of like continue to do it But also not take up too much time as well, right? So Yeah, like patreon is not something that like you have to really give a must offer give a must offer, not a must offer, what is it? Like a very attractive offer for people to do it. Like you have to give them more value than what

they would really be paying for in order for it to work. Having an uncut episode is not really much of an incentive to me. I don't know, unless you're Joe Rogan, but even he doesn't do that. Yeah, he does like three hour episodes. Yeah, it's hard. Monetizing your own content is a challenge. There's no cookie cutter thing. I think it depends on your audience. It depends on what you want them to do, whether it's a small amount or a large amount.

So yeah, it's a challenge, man. It's not easy. But I think it's, I respect and I appreciate what you guys have been doing and like being consistent because that's, I think that's the hardest part about any creator that's doing their own stuff is to be consistent. It's like, you get an idea, we do it really good

for like three months or six months. And then like the energy or like the newness phase falls off and then it's like, ah, and then you get less, less consistent, but the consistency is key, man, so key. Yeah, we're still trying to keep that going. We've had stretches of different breaks. When we first did it, we did it in 2020,

and then we took 2021 as a break to kind of focus on the business and build it, and then we decided it would be good to bring it back. And I think we were doing on average like 15 to 20 episodes a year. And then this year, once we kind of like narrowed down like our process, like now we're trying to get it to the weekly basis.

Like right now on average, we're like one every two weeks which is a lot more than what it used to be, which is great. And now we're trying to get it back to being a consistent once a week type thing. And with the new approach, we can do it. And hopefully people are still enjoying it, you know? So some of our few OG fans, our few OG fans, you know, our five biggest fans. And I wonder who our OG fans are.

Like, get in touch with us. I'm curious who you are. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Comment down. Who's been here since episode one? My mom. Grow a mom. The mom's growin'. You think he's lying. He's not wrong. He probably is.

One last thing I wanted to also ask you about, you mentioned your studio space is what 20,000 square feet you said? Was that correct? Yeah, give or take. So it's a, they call it an industrial condo where we're in. So it's like a big building. There's 12 units with each of those. And so we occupy five of those units.

And they're about, this is not good at math, I should have probably went to that interview you talked about. I think they're each about 7,500 square feet apiece. We have five. That's massive, man. Because the reason I'm asking is like, aside from housing the team there,

and everyone needs office space and stuff like that, what other aspects do you have, like what other parts do you have? Do you have like a dedicated studio space where you film stuff? Do you have like an audio recording suite and editing suite? I guess numerous editing suites is one thing, but like what does that entail? Yeah. So, you know, we have kind of your standards are just offices that admin stuff work out of. We have about three or four rooms that editing works out of.

And then some of those things that occupy a large amount of space is we have two sound stages. One's pretty big, I would say. I mean, pretty big for us as well. It's like maybe 25 feet by 14 feet and then like the 15 foot ceilings. So it's a it's basically a big black box. We've got a sound treated, we got a grid on top and so most of our filming is in there. We have a smaller stage that we run one of our YouTube channels out of which you know because we're doing weekly stuff so it's like yeah it's just it's just for that. A small green room. We have a decent amount of pretty big gear space too So we have like a camera room that all of our cameras and lenses are in that's like secure

And then we have a larger space for our like more grip stuff So our stands and lights and all that and then this is this is a huge luxury And I know it's like it's a little bit of a humble brag But we have a garage so we can load the car in because for years But we have a garage so we can load the car in because for years load outside Terrible it's a loading in like the cold weather So we'll pull in the cold weather or pull the vehicles is a big it's got a big bay door And we'll load up and it's like and we can even leave the vehicle in overnight if we're like leaving early the next day so that's great and then a couple conference rooms and such and

And then just some we have like actually at one of the whole top floors of one of them is just storage. So like our props, it's like you collect a lot of crap after a while too. We probably could do without like maybe like 5,000, like if I just like clean house, but I'm so nostalgic for like everything, I just don't throw anything out. So some of it is just storage in some of the areas. But you never know when you might need this random prop that we bought five years ago. A note. You never know when you need that notebook or that pen or that clipboard. It

can come in handy, but that's great, man. Honestly, you sound like you're living a lot of other production companies' dreams in terms of the resources that you've been able to accumulate. And congratulations for that, honestly. It's not an easy feat and it's always great to hear how successful a lot of people can become in this industry. And yeah, kudos. Thank you. I appreciate that. And anyone out there anyone out there that's like wants to be at that. I mean, it just it takes time. Be patient.

And it also know to like there isn't I thought, well, once I have like so many employees, I'll be happy. Like, I'm just as happy now as I was back then, which or I'm just as unhappy now as I was, you know, back then. So I think like just being it's because you're always looking at what's next You're always in like and you're always looking what's next and always also like frustrated about all the problems you have now And like they just you don't You never get to this happy spot

Maybe when you retire and if you sell your company for like a ton of money and you could just like sit in a beach But then like then you have nothing like the problem board You do have you do have the beach though you do get the beach i mean i just i just encourage anyone and i maybe it's just i'm saying this for myself it's just like appreciate where you are because it could always get worse um and and better doesn't mean better like you think like the problems maybe this is a little too spiritual, but I would argue that the problems you're going through are made for you, for you to become a better person. And so like, like hug that cactus.

They say like, hug that, uh, that, that, that problem, because that problem is, is there to make you better, even if you don't want it. So I think I have a cactus back there. I'll go try that out. Yeah, sit on it or sit on it. Painful. Rob, thank you so much, man. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this episode of Creative Scrap Coffee. Please make sure to follow and engage with us on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, and your favorite podcast app. Creative Scrap Coffee is created by Laps Productions, a video production company based in Toronto, Canada.

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