Crime in Sports - #317 - Bloody Bodies & Bad Excuses - The Treacherousness of Joaquin "Fire" Balassa

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

This week, we check out a man who is known very little for his brief MMA career, but he is a "superstar" of crime. After washing out of the lowest levels of MMA, he takes a job at Home Depot, meeting some new friends, and trying to lead a normal life. He meets some new friends, while selling them a barbecue, which to a night of heavy drinking, and good times. The problem is, at the end of the night, both of his new friends are dead, and the entire scene is soaked in blood. But he denies it all... until he decides that it was self defense, with one of the most ridiculous stories/excuses of all time!Fail in your athletic career, have 2 roommates in a small apartment, and make up a fantastical story of how you were actually the victim, and did what you had to do to survive with Joaquin "Fire" Balassa!!Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!!  Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail]  Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It's an all-new season. Judy Justice. Only on Freebie. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports! Yay! Ah, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another insane, crazy, downhill edition of Crime and Sports. And it's crazy today because there is, we're talking murder today.

This is going to be, I'll tell you right up front what's going to happen. This is going to be, there is some you right up front what's going to happen. This is going to be. There is some bloody nastiness going on on today's show. So. Oh, boy. More than one, Jimmy. It's. Oh, shit.

Oh, yeah. This is quite the tale. I'm going to tell you here today. And, of course, we are going to have an update at the end on Aqib Tlaib as well. What the fuck, man? We are clairvoyant that that happens. We release an episode and five days later him and his brother are involved in a shooting. It's honestly the most ridiculous thing ever.

It was our 315th episode and right at that point this happens. It's nuts. Quickly though at the top of the show, thank you so much for everything that point, this happens. It's nuts. Uh, quickly though, at the top of the show, thank you so much for everything that you do for us. Thank you for everything, including your reviews, five stars on whatever app you're listening to head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything. All your merchandise tickets for live shows.

We have small town murder at the Pabst in Milwaukee coming up. We have, we have Nashville, but that's going to be sold out. It's been sold out. So there's that. And then Florida, it's this coming, but that's going to be sold out. It's been sold out. So there's that. And then Florida. It's this coming weekend.

It's going to be insane. Yeah, Florida was at September 23rd and 4th, I believe. Yes. That is Tampa and Orlando, two shows each night. They're going to be different shows, both small-town murder, different shows for each city. Each night. Yeah, each night gets two different shows.

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You bet your ass you get the back catalog. There's over 100 episodes on there. Tons of stuff. And every other week you're going to get two new episodes. one crime and sports, one small town murder. You'll get access to it all. Damn it. Anybody $5 or above this week. What you're going to get is for crime and sports.

You're going to get to talk about the Brett Favre dick pic scandal. Number one and other a couple of just weird sports sex things. There's a female golfer who allegedly forced her caddy to impregnate her for fear of his job. And a couple other, Gary Payton with some weird stuff. Just some weird sex stuff. And then Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about two of the most terrible people ever, Leonard Lake and Charles Eng. Kind of in their own words and especially concentrating on Charles Ng's testimony because it's ridiculous and hilarious. So we'll do all of that.

And it's patreon.com slash crimeandsports. And you'll get a shout-out at the end of the show. You bet! Of course, where Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly while wanting and trying his best to get it correct. So we'll do that. And if you want to get just your shout-out, you can do that at PayPal using our email address address crime and sports at gmail.com i do want to say thank you we're

recording this episode pretty much right after leaving uh sacramento and san francisco doing two shows in each of those cities back to back night so if my voice sounds scratchy it's because at the the end of the fourth show, I was doing Vince McMahon too. So it was like, Oh boy. Yeah. I got my voice.

My voice is thrashed. So yeah, doing this four times in 24 hours is not easy basically. So anyway, James, I think maybe it's no, but thank you. Honestly,

San Francisco and Sacramento. Thank you so much. What amazing crowds you guys are. First of all, San Francisco, thank you for all the love on the Rod Beck jersey, by the way. The whole staff of Cobbs went batshit for that. It was so cool. It was cool to have people remember Rod and love Rod. That, man, holy shit. They were just – we were tired. And then as soon as we got on stage, couldn't be tired because you guys had all the energy in the world. And so did we. And you ended up – people from Small Town Murder sold out Crime and Sports and said, damn it, I want to see a second show. Right. Because we throw down on the live shows.

You come see a damn live show. And specifically, Ali in Sacramento, thank you for sticking around to talk to us. You really changed my day. Yes, in the audience, not the staff. But yeah, she's a great, yeah, thank you for hanging out with us. Her and her husband are terrific people. It was great to meet both of you. So that said, let's get to a terrible story that has no anything nice or heartwarming or anything to it.

It's really just a bad story about bad things that happened. We're going to talk about Joaquin Miguel Balassa Jr. Oh. So right away, suspicious. I didn't think the junior was going to. Oh, junior. I was thinking, okay. I didn't hear of him.

Now junior, now I know who it is. Ken Griffey, that doesn't. Oh, junior. Yeah, now I know who you're talking about. Never heard of him before that one. Never heard of him still. Joaquin Balasa is his name, Junior. And he goes by...

His nickname is Fire. Joaquin Fire Balasa. Oh. He's sort of a wannabe MMA fighter. He does have a little bit of professional MMA going on, but it's not much and it's not good. So we'll discuss it. What's the nickname of Fire?

Fire. Not even Fuego? No, no, no. Fire. That's it. Joaquin Fire Bellasso Jr. He's born in 1987. He is from Tehachapi, California.

That's how you say that, right? Tehachapi, I believe. Yeah, Tehachapi california that's how you say that right tahachapi i believe yeah tahachapi california and um he he grows up here from what i found his dad is i saw his dad senior there has a like um i saw like i found a like listings of property and shit like that so i was like okay there's a senior to his junior that senior seems to be around You know what I mean? So we know that. He lives in the area anyway. So I don't know what kind of relationship they had.

Now, what I found here on Old Fire is he wrestled in high school. Okay. So I found some high school wrestling results from newspapers from 2003 in California here. So I found some of that. and he seems to be losing all the time he seems he doesn't seem to be very good at this we'll put it that way um he's wrestling at 130 for uh to hatchaby high school and he is losing to a guy named daniel weatherly from exeter high school in one of these and then he's losing again to some other guy. He's fifth place in a tournament here.

He beat somebody named Cody Gibson, which, I mean, that doesn't sound very tough. Who the hell's that? You should be able to beat a guy named Cody Gibson, I would imagine, even on your worst day. You should be able to smack the shit out of that guy. Yeah, except for Cody East. Remember him?

Yeah. That lunatic. He was a monster, yeah. That guy was fun. All I remember about him is he was hip- tossing teenage girls at one point during a party he was 18 6 foot 4 220 pounds and the the police report said he was quote hip tossing 14 year old girls around one after another which i that was hilarious i remember thinking like were they, after the first hip toss, run. Everyone run.

Scatter. Who would, what girl would challenge a man who's willing to throw her best friend? Like, he hip tossed one, then the other one stepped up and went, I can't believe you did that to her. That's so messed up. Hip toss her. Oh, my God. You do not do that to Alex. Hip toss her.

Oh, my God. Now, you hip tossed all three of these girls. What is wrong with you? Hip toss her. That's all I could think. And they had, like, a line of girls to come up and tell him he was wrong while he just hip tossed them without listening well what's a girl's name miranda and yeah and amanda and he's just throwing them around all sorts of mandas getting tossed everywhere

he nick he changed the name of the move from a hip toss to amanda i manded her all over the place man manded her right in the coffee table it worked out well so um anyway yeah i see him losing a lot except he is like i said fifth place in this tournament at 130 pounds and um he's not the only people below him were people that got hurt and had to get like leave the tournament so and c Gibson, of course. So injuries and one guy he lost, or that he beat. One guy he beat. So I don't feel like he's real good at it. At least not dominant. Not dominant, absolutely.

Yeah, he's not like, oh, man, state champion fire balassa here. So I'm going to give him that one win. So we do see him win a high school wrestling match. Grace. Yeah. Yeah, Grace. That's a high school wrestling match. Grace. Yeah. Yeah, Grace. That's Grace, everybody. That's Grace.

Fifth place in a high school wrestling tournament. Literally Grace. That's Grace. From here on out, it's all bad. It's all bad. At least then there was potential. This is what I'm going to get at here. At least fifth place, there's hope.

There's room for improvement. There's something. He might have a future in front of him after this it's no longer the future now it's the present and his present is not good so he's not even he's not even on the podium no he's nowhere near it jesus christ he's still got two guys in front of him he's hanging out with two injured dudes and a guy named cody going well fuck and then another one in front of him at least this day could have been minorly worse yeah well i guess i could have lost to cody that would have been worse but so it's really he does nothing after that he has no it doesn't really seem to have a lot of drive in him i gotta say to say, maybe.

Maybe that's it. Or he's also, as we'll find out from his future behavior, I don't know how mentally sound this man is also. No. I feel like he's not mentally there based on all of his actions. Yeah, I feel like maybe this is something that's either organic or just he's always been an asshole. I don't know. One or the other. Just from you'll see here. So after high school, while working at normal jobs, he's not like a – yeah, he's not some kind of prodigy where there's some manager putting money into him or anything.

He works somewhere and then goes to the gym at night if he can afford it. That's what he does. somewhere and then goes to the gym at night if he can afford it that's what he does so he's trying to train in jujitsu taekwondo and kickboxing which is the kind of the mma if you you know that's how he wants to fight mma yeah yeah he wants to i don't know if it's the core but i know it helps to know how to strike and jujitsu is helpful for grappling so yeah i assume seems logical yeah generally the the quarter at the center of the rubber band ball. Seems like it, I would imagine. I mean, just from a layman's point of view, from the outside watching it.

So now 2006, I find here that, so he's about 19. This is right after high school. See, this is the thing, too. A guy like this, we don't know what his juvenile record is. We have no idea because something like that would be sealed. And he's not famous enough for some reporter to fucking on. Pry it open. Pry it open.

Yeah. He's not Deshaun Watson or something. You know, somebody who did something like whatever. So nobody's breaking into national archives for this guy. No, they're not going to find out, figure it out, go interview people. They're not going to pull like a, you know, like a Zodiac killer retrospective here. By the way, there is a documentary out on the Zodiac Killer. I've heard about this.

Okay. I refuse to watch it. No, no, no. You should watch it. Is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should watch it just because you'll want to punch this guy in the throat so hard that you've got to watch it.

That's exactly what I knew it was. Yeah. Well, they totally, by the third episode no spoiler alert for this because we gotta do a patreon on it but like by like the third first two episodes i believe are like um you know his dad's absolutely the zodiac killer absolutely he's matched it up look at it it's perfect he's got this everything lines up they wrote a book about it it all it all fits there's no other explanation for it what else could it be holy shit and then the third episode they're like yeah because none of that was true

that what they wrote he took things that were you know sort of similar and then he made a connection to them and just made up the middle part that connected them you know like every conspiracy theory out there he took two known facts and then just made a weak connection where the people can go yeah that's logical that a goes to be like that yeah and then that's exactly what he did shoddy electric work that's what it is it's it's duct tape the wires together they don't touch but we'll get we'll get the current through that charge will jump don't worry if it's half an inch apart it'll jump that. That's where he was. I knew it.

I fucking knew it. And I saw it and I was like, this son of a bitch is grifting. He's stealing somewhere. But it seems like he, I know this is way off the subject and we will do a Patreon on it, but it seems like he was so, he had put so much into it that once it was obviously not connecting he couldn't i don't feel like he could let his brain not make it true he had to make it so for himself for his own sanity or else he looked like a complete moron he needs his dad to be this otherwise his life's a sham by the way and this is off the subject again but just on human nature and i think it fits with

with our crime and sports subjects in general but what the fuck is that with people what is that is it a desire to be important no no no not that part the part of like when someone is wrong about something and they've invest if they've invested enough time in it and made that like their personality and their identity, they'll never say they're wrong. Even if they are given definitive proof they're wrong and they know in their brain that they're wrong, they won't ever admit it because then that shows that they're just there. Their whole thing shatters at that point rather than just going, Jesus, I fucked that one up and taking it on the chin and then moving on. I don't get why people can't do that what is that about human nature everybody needs nathan fielder to rehearse it a couple of times that's what i mean did you i thank you for finally watching the rehearsal is

it's it is the most wonderful show on television if it ever stops i'm gonna be furious i'm so mad i need it every week now every when it ends, I'm like, no! Every week. How is it this short? Make it longer. How is it so good is the real question. We need to, you know, we should like keep him. It should be his like his assigned duty. He goes to federal prison if he doesn't produce several three hour long episodes of this a month.

I feel like that should be the. His focus on Judaismaism with the mel gibbs and stuff i had to rewind and watch it again he's so funny he's hilarious so okay anyway back to old joaquin balaza here so 2006 he's got a whole bunch of criminal shit going on in 2006 seems to start losing his mind now also high school wrestling there's some hits to the head there if you hit in the head and on the mat and then if he's getting into taekwondo kickboxing and fucking jujitsu we're talking a lot more blows to the head yeah possible brain damage we don't know it's never you know we don't know what the what the cause

of it is but and he's an adult and living his life out out there in california in the world yeah just walking around 2006 james that was a frustrating time to be to be an american i mean the the economy was fucked up was about to fucking die things weren't going well so he had a shitload of things going on weapons charges drug charges battery charges really yeah he starts really um going a little loopy here. And this, I don't know. This is an absolute rumor from literally internet comments on stories about him. On all stories about him, there's always somebody commenting like, I went to the gym with this guy, and it's a shame what happens when guys get on steroids like that.

Blah, blah, blah. I don't know if that's true or not obviously that's allegedly from not even somebody saw him in the gym in the fucking locker room yeah we're talking anonymous comments on the internet too not even a person saying that so it's not even i can't even attribute it to a human being at that point it could be a bot i have no idea it's not a guy saying my name is fred rogers and i have my my gold's Gym membership number. And a picture of him with his fists up like his fighting headshot. Like, no, that's not up.

It's never that. So who knows? Anyway, he ended up at one point pleading no contest to battery with serious bodily injury. A few times? He pleaded no contest to battery with serious bodily injury in 2006 he that's his plea but he was arrested on a whole bunch of shit weapons drugs battery all sorts of shit but this battery with serious bodily injury that's what he pled to yeah so that's a that's a reduction it was probably attempted murder as i say that or assault with intent to whatever the

fucker the battery with serious bodily injuries that's the reduction that doesn't sound good at all i wouldn't you know that's that's a charge they'll get you sued i would say if you had any money but he doesn't so he definitely doesn't as we'll talk about here so he was sentenced to you sir may fuck off eight days in jail eight days you get in there for a week and a day mister that extra day is going to be the thing like a week anyone can do but that extra day you're going to be thinking all day long about it trust me you go sunday morning to next sunday night you like that yeah that's it two sunday two two weeks of football you're gonna miss you're gonna miss two churches two jesus your fantasy team's gonna be all fucked up you're not gonna know what's going on somebody's gonna get injured this week and you're gonna have to

keep them in next week you won't even know it could be a running back he'll have zero points zero what if it's your quarterback then what are you gonna do it's over you're gonna know monday you're gonna know monday oh looks like your defense is playing against oh no look at that there look at that they score a lot they're playing kansas city this week that's gonna be trouble i don't know my homes is hot i don't know i would i would bench them i'd bench that defense telling you right now so that's what's going on there. Eight days in jail. Now he starts fighting or attempts to fight professional MMA.

That's here. So from all I can find, there are rumors of a fight in 2010, which is just referred to as an unsuccessful attempt at cage fighting in 2010. an unsuccessful attempt at cage fighting in 2010 so i don't it wasn't it wasn't on like a any kind of reputable like uh you know mma database of fighters so on a reputable one i found his actual one i suppose professional mma is really a it's a murky water because you don't know what's professional honestly professional means you're getting paid. So they can give you 50. I've been to professional comedy shows that are terrible where I know everyone's getting paid $5, but that doesn't mean that they're good at comedy. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So quote unquote professional shows where they collected from the audience. Yeah. If you think they're funny and they made three, four bucks. Yeah. They made like, oh, cool. Let's all chip in for pizza. Yeah. That's a great living.

That's kind of what's MMA. It's really what is professional. So it's kind of whatever it is, these websites that seem to decide what are the ones that are going to count as actual professional fights. This is on March 29th, 2009. He fights in TWC2, the Weather channel 2 um no you don't do that tw that's the weather channel on any cable package if you're scrolling i haven't had cable in years but i remember of twc that's the weather channel isn't there a wc also wb wb yes wc is a rapper james yeah yeah i was gonna say that's i think a person not a channel he may have his own channel by now we don't know we don't know just fixes up old cars

paints them all blue fixes up old cars paints them all blue and puts dayton's on them they're so desperate on these channels that i'm sure they would discovery plus that's they're gonna put it on there you know dub c crip my ride yeah my ride that's the one you know it's gonna fucking happen next then they're gonna have dj quick on the other side doing blood my shit on uh on peacock it's going to be on Paramount Plus or whatever. Streamers, they need content is what we're getting at.

Are you a rapper that hasn't made an album in 25 years? Well, you know how to fix anything? Yeah, which gang are you affiliated with? We will either crip or blood that. Yeah, pick a gang and then pick one thing that you're good at fixing up and they'll give you a show it doesn't matter if it's washing machines it could

be i swear to god that's it it could be dj quick fixes washing machines dressed in red and that would be a show at this point they'd be like there's got to be an audience for that. He fixes toasters. He calls it a bloodjacker. Yeah, he's Prop Joe from The Wire. He's sitting behind a counter unscrewing toasters going, I don't know now. Little reading glasses down at the end of his nose so he can see the screws. That is something. But that's the shows they have now. It's fucking ridiculous.

It's so dumb. It's a lot so yeah so who should have a show then us yeah exactly give us we're not washed up yet so right we won't even crimp or blood anything no i swear to god i'll latin king it maybe but you don't know listen hey don't be picky all right you get what you get people so this is the weather channel 2 twc2 the warrior's cage is what that means twc yeah name of the show it's got to be a stupid name of course caged revenge dead man's hand oh for pete's sake it's a fucking pirate reference it's a no that's that's a wild bill yeah that's why this is over eights yeah so aces over eights we know what that means

so that makes no sense then to call a card that because right well it's aces over eights we know what that is it's not an idiom it's an actual thing yeah it's an actual hand so why do we have what's this is what's the dead man's hand in in fighting? I don't know. That's what I mean. I don't I don't understand it. It makes no sense. But you know what?

They named their fucking event the Weather Channel. So it's at the Eagle Mountain Casino Event Center in Porterville, California. So I feel like this audience has a biker or two in it. Probably. You know what I mean? Like they are just where what's the town porterville they are desperate for entertainment oh god yeah this is another one of those that feels like it's in the parking lot this is giving me jared wyatt vibes for sure you know what i mean like yeah in the parking lot with like a bunch of guys with you know like ss tattoos

on their chest with their shirts off watching it. Not even in a match, just there to support a friend. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They're all there to support somebody. I mean, you got to support the cause, Jimmy. So there's 11 fights on this card, by the way. So that's a lot of fights. 11? 11 fights is a long card.

That's a long day. A long day in the Porterville sun i gotta say i tell you that better be indoors i feel like it's not even sanctioned it's just at the casino in the back of the parking lot yeah you know where there's dust it's not even sort of not paved anymore back there we're gambling on this there's a man holding up a handful of bills just one handful the biggest guy there so no one will take it he holds the money all the time what a frightening place this seems he's wearing no shirt and a leather vest i feel like that that looks good that's a good harry yeah yeah harry about 340 shorts they might be you know what not when he got there no not when he got there by fight four he

cut him off they're fresh cut denim yeah you heard you heard denim ripping yeah and that's there's no strings hanging it's straight cut down yeah brand new cuts so or that or he just gnawed it with his teeth and then ripped it either way he fights a guy named paul estrada who is coming off like a four or five year uh actually a six year absence from fighting he fought like two cards in 2003 and then hasn't fought in years he's three and oh coming into this fight okay and um it doesn't go very long in the first minute our guy here fire gets burned in the first round with a with an arm bar and he submits so damn it there's that paul estrada will go on to be an illustrious five and oh in his career that's it for them fighting in casino

parking lots in central california basically so that's how that goes. He apparently, like I said, did some janky low-rent cage fight in 2010 that didn't make the cut for this shit. And that's his MMA career, 0-1. Oh, solid work. He beat Cody and then lost to Paul Estrada, and that's pretty much all we got on him in terms of his athletic accomplishments.

Wow. Yeah, the rest is all crime. That was fast. That was fast, yeah. That's that. That's why he graced out at nine minutes. What do we want here? Sometimes you don't have it, man.

Sometimes you just don't have it. That's how it works. So I found his MySpace page. Oh, great. I love that. He had one in 2010? Well, I mean, it could be from the 2006 era, 2007. I mean, well, think about it.

People still had those. MySpace was still going until about 2008, 2009. That's when Facebook really kind of crushed it at that point. This is pre-Instagram and obviously pre-Twitter, really. So that's when that happened. So, yeah, 2008, 2009, you're still going to have one. And if you're going to be an MMA fighter, damn it, you better have you a MySpace page, buddy.

Well, Twitter started around 2007. But I mean, it wasn't like a... Yeah, it wasn't a giant thing. It was very... 2010, 11, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's when it got nuts. Yeah, Facebook wasn't until 2008, probably. So it really got swe swelled really in the

grand scheme of like fads and stuff do you know i mean that stuff should be going the fuck away pretty soon right yeah but unfortunately it's it's now seen as like yeah i don't need cable i have tiktok where it's like huh yeah it's weird It's weird. It's weird. And they found, most importantly, they found a place for Kim Kardashian to sell makeup products to you. Thank God.

That's it. That's all it is. So everybody's doing all of our things on there for the sole purpose of supporting the fact so people like that can sell you shit.

That's literally all it is. Isn't that amazing? You had to wait for like a big event to be on tv for all the eyes to be glued to yeah and now you can just do your own and fucking sell everything yeah it was kind of nice when we had again sorry off the subject trust me it's going to get gross in a minute here okay um it was kind of nice i i like all obviously it's nice to have choice of what you you know i want this to be sold like, I want to watch exactly this little niche thing, and it's there for you now.

You know what I mean? Or I want to listen to two idiots make fun of a fucking high school wrestler for a couple hours. It's there for you. You couldn't have that in 1975. True. true but in place of that it was there was something to a like a a full like an experience that everybody shared a shared experience that we all have you know what i mean so that was kind of nice like there used to be like a commercial that everybody knew of and everyone in america saw and could be annoyed with whereas now it's like that's unless it's targeted toward what you're watching

on youtube it's not going to fucking be there or your streaming service or whatever the fuck. So we don't share anything anymore. Yeah. The milk and Budweiser frogs. That shit's over. Yeah. We all used to watch the same facts on the same news. Whereas now it's like, well, I like the news that says that the moon revolves around the sun and I'll find that.

And there's a goddamn whole network that's going the moon these fucking crazy these crazy sun stays in one place everything revolves around it people will have you believe this but it's not true i'm tired of listening some dildo in a bow tie i'll be saying that and then what are you gonna do so anyway so yeah myspace destroyed everything is what we're getting at basically right that's our old man rant of the day myspace and myspace came around and ruined it all if you don't know when crystal pepsi was discontinued what was in al capone's vault or which famous meteorologist is lenny kravitz's second cousin then you haven't spent enough time on wikipedia but that's. I am here for you. I'm Darcy Carden, and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole,

from SmartList Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast, you'll learn that that's the science-y term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster as we start out on a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections

until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining W WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Taylor Swift is soaring high. Her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans.

She's broken billboard records and made Grammys history, not to mention becoming a billionaire in the process. But along the way, Taylor has had to wage war, first by taking on a very powerful, very famous manager, Scooter Braun, and then by going up against the biggest live events company, Ticketmaster. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondery's show, Business Wars. We go deep into some of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time and in our latest season taylor swift will shake up not only the music business but hollywood and the nfl follow business wars wherever you get your podcasts you can listen ad free on the amazon music or app they started making pictures on your cell phones. And then what? This uncle is so great. So I found who his connections are on MySpace.

Okay. So I'm looking and some of them I don't know who these people are. I assume a lot of them are MMA fighters. Because I see there's a Shamrock on here. Frank Shamrock. Is he related to Ken Shamrock? Absolutely. Oh, there you go. So he's got Frank Shamrock.

He's got, well, I'll read them. Maybe you know who these people are. These would be 2006 era MMA fighters. This is up your alley. Brandon Brown. I think he's a football player. Cameron Ascari. Allison, I'll leave the women out.

Maybe those are like chicks he's trying to bang. I don't want to blow up regular chick spots here. They might be MMA fighters too. I have no idea. Jizz Skeet. I don't want to blow up regular chick spots here. They might be MMA fighters, too. I have no idea. Jizz Skeet. I don't know who that is. The guy with the best name ever? I feel like I don't need to protect the identity of Jizz Skeet.

I feel like he would want his name out there, right? Am I wrong, Jimmy? Yeah. You know who he is? He's Coors Skeet's uh brother is he wow okay now that makes sense now i get it they both have really terrible hairlines oh my god more fucking rehearsal i love it so he's got uh bj penn is one of those yeah he's got him on there as we know about that um a couple of his relatives are on here, a couple of Belasa people.

So I assume that. Who else that I know of? Dangerous Steve Ramirez. That sounds like probably not a regular person. Probably an MMA fighter. Sounds like an MMA fighter of some kind here. Who else do we have here? Mr. KO Fight Gear. Got gear i connect with them get your gear

yeah um gotta have that who is this oh ti is he's friends with ti apparently friends with ti and joe rogan here okay so there's that those are those are the people i can i can he was friends with them on facebook huh this is on myspace no i don't know but myspace And he was friends with them on Facebook, huh? On MySpace. On MySpace, yeah. But MySpace you could be friends with anybody and there was no limit, so it was fucking rad. And there was no commitment to anything there. You didn't have to see their shit, basically. So that's why. Not like, oh, now I got to see this asshole's shit in my feed all the time, which is what we have now.

So he's on MySpace. He's failing to be an mma fighter yeah what's he doing in the next four four to five years well by 2014 i know exactly what he's doing he is in he's still in his hometown in kern county california yeah and he's working at home depot oh boy yeah which is fine home depot is a fine it's a fine job but if on this show it's not usually we're not going to have a career earnings thing at the end of it where we're going to go oh damn he made 48 million he should still have something left he's working if he's lucky the paint department but i doubt it i don't think they're going to trust him to mix paint and you know that seems like it's probably a party part of partly fucking really difficult job too because you're lifting most times in the very early morning

you're lifting giant five gallon drums over and over and over again yeah yeah i would think so what do you what department would you would you hire him for based on his qualifications i mean i might i might hire him for the for the drywall and lumber department. Yeah, to haul stuff. Yeah. Move this to there. Yeah, that's what I'm going to say. He's a hauler to me. He's just put a bunch of-

Cinder blocks and lumber. Move it. Yeah. That's his job. Move a pile of cinder blocks from one state- Here to there. Home Depot's like a military prison in the 1800s is basically move that pile of rocks over to there that's how jimmy's got his home depot set up come down to

jimmy's home depot he's workers walking around sad singing fucking spirituals and shit humming Yes. Humming. Doing a lot of humming. Nobody knows the trouble I... With cinder blocks in their hands. A lot of... Jimmy, arms crossed, nodding. Yep, this is what I had in mind. This is how we make the donuts. It's all working here. It's all working out.

So he's working there, and a couple of guys come into the store where he works the home depot in uh whatever is to to hatch up to hatch a pea to hatch a pea um so it is jose antonio fajardo he is 54 years old and he comes in with guy richard uh kukal k-o-u-k-a-l who's 57 kukal kukal um he's 57 years old they come in together um apparently that day they needed a a bunch of help here um with some purchases they were making and i guess joaquin followed him around and – or not like stalking them. He was helping them. They were like, hey – yeah. He's helping them with a bunch of stuff that they need for their house, okay?

So apparently he spends like two hours with them at the store. Wow. These two guys, right? So the next day they come back, this couple. And they're a gay couple, Jose and Guy. So they come back the next day and one of the things they bought was a barbecue grill. And they said, wow, thank you so much for all your help. You really pushed us in the right direction on tons of shit.

So thank you for that. And, you know, would you at some point, if you want to come over for a barbecue, we're going to have with our new grill, you know, party, bunch of friends and shit. You're more than welcome to come because you helped us pick it out. So come on by. So, yeah, he said, yeah, thanks. That's nice. And everybody got along.

Everything was nice. And he didn't end up coming over or anything. And, you know, just whatever. Just kind of went by the wayside. The option was there. Option was there. He doesn't see them again for about six months. Oh.

About six months go by here. Now, they had exchanged phone numbers, by the way, before. When they, you know, that next day, they exchanged phone numbers. And I guess periodically, Joaquin would get a text from them and they would say, hey, you know, we're doing we're having a party or whenever they're having a gathering. They'd send out. He was part of their text circle of, hey, you know, you're welcome to come by. We're having a barbecue or, you know, whatever the fuck the occasion was. And he said, you know, he told he told friends about it.

Right. Yeah. These two guys are pretty cool. Nice guys or whatever. They keep inviting me to hang out. But I got shit to do. And, you know, they're older. He's in his mid 20s.

He's going to hang out with these two old guys do and you know they're older he's in his mid 20s he's gonna hang out with these two old guys it's just they're in their mid 50s that's a it's just not the same circle you know yeah and uh yeah i mean they're gonna be sitting around drinking sipping he's trying to fucking he's trying to shotgun these beers yeah he's like shotgun and like where are the chicks and they're like um well um you know i don't know not to be of a stereotypical but they're you know they're like um you know i got and we have a lot of women friends i'm sure we can they're they're older i mean you know i feel like they have things they have to do i feel like women in their mid-50s it'd be great so it's just not the same the same deal there so i guess they do that they're they're never able to line up plans.

And he texts them, but he doesn't ignore them. He goes, oh, yeah, no, maybe another time. They're friendly. So then finally, in August of 2014, August 31, 2014, he, Joaquin, spends the evening with his new girlfriend here. So he's got a girlfriend that he just met, and he's hanging out with her. He's also got a friend, Luis, here, who is one of his roommates. And he has two roommates. That's how he's living.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a tough one. Yeah. Two roommates as a grown man. That tells you your level of how happy you are. Yeah. The less roommates, the better.

And, you know, in New York or in san francisco that's commonplace but in central california in your 20s yeah no roommates into hatchaby you probably would prefer not to have any roommates at that point so um they're all hanging out and a little bit before 8 p.m I guess Joaquin's girlfriend leaves to go home. So I'm going to take off there. So apparently right after that, he gets a message, Joaquin does, gets a text message from Jose, one of the guys from Home Depot. And he says, hey, me and Guy are going out to dinner. We're going to be in your town. We're going out to dinner and stuff.

Why don't you stop by and grab a drink with us while you're well you know while we're out have to hang out with us so uh he said yeah what the fuck why not yeah my girlfriend just left yeah what the fuck i'll go out and it's public we'll go out and hang out have some drinks there so he does he meets them it's at the uh perico restaurant don per don perico is the name of the restaurant. It's a Mexican restaurant. I thought, I assumed, yeah. And meets them there about 8.30, 8.45, he shows up, Joaquin does,

and they have a bunch of drinks and they have dinner and just basically have a good time. He brings Luis too. Great. You come with me, yeah,

it's just four guys having some drinks and some tacos and some burritos and two guys who want tacos and two guys who want burritos and they're all there together so that's nice that's that's all terrific yeah what do you want that was

to say i think i know what everybody ordered i think i got that right and i got that so either way you can't expect no joke at all from that it's a taco it's a it's just right there it's too obvious extra sour cream in the burritos please please extra make that taco juicy so they uh they eat dinner they do their things they hang out and uh while they ate dinner they shared two pitch pictures of margaritas as well oh god dear shit and then did a couple of rounds of tequila shots as well a little group so two pictures of margaritas with four people and then each of them had two tequila shots as well so that's oh we're hammered getting good and tipsy at that point you know so yeah they're having fun here and And then in addition to that, Joaquin and Jose, I guess they're the drinkers of their respective groups there.

They each had an additional shot. Oh, three for them. So they had three, him and Jose. And everybody left the restaurant around 10, 20 p.m. P.m., okay. P.m., yeah. So they're there. They hang out a little over an hour and a half.m p.m okay p.m yeah so they're there they hang out you know a little over an hour and a half sounds like just a good time shit that sounds like fun go out eat some mexican food drinking margaritas shooting tequila good time hour and a half two pitchers

and fucking not 10 shots yeah that's that's that's that's a lot that's a lot of booze in a short period of time it is it's hard drinking but it's but it's what you do when you're 26 and you've been hitting the head a lot and you work at Home Depot and you have two roommates. You go out and you get hammered if you can. You know? I mean, shit. Think about it. When you were that age and had a shit job, what did you do? Lots of so-called lime shots.

That's true. That's what it is, man. So anyway, they do all that they don't leave the well they leave the interior of the restaurant but do not leave the restaurant property they hang out in the parking lot for a while what where i'll give you a guess what do you think they do in the parking lot smoke weed no no no no no they did mma you're closer with mma than weed joaquin and jose had foot races they were lining up like 40 yard dashes after yeah the two that had the extra tequila to line up and literally have foot races in the parking lot of i assume probably a mostly empty

parking lot of a mediocre restaurant mexican restaurant in the middle of tehachapi california it can't be that great so it's not packed we're running the length of the property absolutely and guy uh was taking photographs of them on the phone drinking or you know doing foot races together having a good time laughing smiling everybody's that big smiles on their faces and they're running and doing all that kind of shit and they they fuck around in the parking lot for a while like just hanging out and this is a good old time they're having so what a day this sounds yeah this is getting really good so then after that they're like well fuck let's keep this party going um there's a liquor store down the street let's go grab some more liquor and we'll fucking

and joaquin's like we can take it to my house because it's right down the street. Let's go grab some more liquor and we'll fucking, and Joaquin's like, we can take it to my house because it's right down the street. We'll go to my apartment. Two pitchers, 10 shots. We need more. We need, well, they ran it out. I'm sure they sweat out a lot of it in the parking lot. You know, it's August in Central California.

They're done. Yeah. You sweat out your tequila and burritos. Easy. So they stop at a liquor store and get more liquor, and they head to Joaquin's apartment. His apartment is at the Sierra Vista Apartments on Cherry Lane. He lives in Unit 47. So they head on up to Unit 47, and Mario comes over as well.

Now we've got another friend. We've got another friend. This is Joaquin's friend Mario. He arrives at the apartment just about the same time they do he showed he showed up to see what luis and and joaquin were doing and everybody's hanging out and you know he he like walks into a party basically it sure does they're drunk and you know doing foot races walking in with more bottles and he's like shit cool you know sounds like a good party what a day what a

day so they all go in there and uh everybody's hanging out and one it's luis mario it is uh joaquin guy and um and jose they're all in there together so at that point the five men they play beer pong for a while really so? So they're drinking more beer. Then they switch to just doing whiskey shots. Holy. So hammered would be a good way to put it after a while. My belly hurts so bad right now. Mexican food, two pitchers of margaritas, at least three tequila shots, then drank a bunch of beer after running foot races in

the heat, by the way. That's the other thing. Yeah. If I eat and drink a bunch, I'm not running in the heat. I will throw the fuck up quick. That's the immediate way to make me throw up right there. And then booze and running. And then we're pouring whiskey on top of that.

And then they're going to do whiskey shots. That's just they're so drunk at that point you start really pounding it down, and it's a mess. So they're all having a great time, though, having a good old fucking time. Everybody's laughing, and it is just the best time ever. Summer camp is what they're having here. It's a great August day. Yeah. Now, at some point during this evening, Mario and everybody's pretty hammered.

But Mario is the least hammered of everybody because he didn't have the first round of this. He he came in after everybody was already shit faced. He sees Joaquin go into his bedroom with Guy and Jose. They all walk in together laughing and having a good old time. guy and jose they all walk in together laughing and you know having a good old time the bedroom door closes behind them and then music is turned up very loud in there oh boy so i don't know i think everyone probably you can make your own assumptions what that means but we've all generally naked time we've all turned the tv up louder you know what i mean like you know if you're like a younger person or you don't know and you're like well my parents will just watch tv really loud sometimes that's when they're fucking it's gross right yeah that's when

ugly things are happening but you know these are some drunk happy consenting adults gonna go into a bedroom and close the door and turn the music up. Knock yourselves out. Who gives a shit? So we don't know what happened. But anyway, they emerge about 20 minutes later. Yeah. But 20 minutes later, they come out.

And at that point, Mario tells Joaquin that he's feeling a little uncomfortable in this whole situation. He's going to take off now. Joaquin needs to go home? No, no, not Joaquin. mario said i'm feeling a little uncomfortable i'm gonna take off now i'm gonna head out yeah he tells joaquin that he's like listen bro it's been real thanks for the whiskey and beer pong and everything but it's starting to get a little like hitler youth lord of the flies in here there's shirtless guys and we're all drinking and getting a little grab assy and i'm not sure i'm not sure it's literally raining men around here yeah it's turning into a disco song i'm gonna take off now so um and mario later on would tell

people that he he more preferred partying with both men and women and wasn't interested in drinking heavily with dudes exclusively. I think what he's saying is he didn't want to drink with gay guys who were strangers because he's a young dude who's probably like, I don't know. Those dudes were like, they were like gay and stuff. I don't know, man. I didn't want him to force themselves on me. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of homophobia with young guys like that because they don't they don't when you get older you're just like i don't fucking care

well i think what it is is it's the insecurity of yeah that's what it is yeah that's all it is and then yeah what if what if they ask me to join i don't know fucking say no what are you talking about good yeah never been around gay people before? Just go, no, thanks. And they go, all right. They're not like, no, give me your cock. They never say that. I've never had that said to me before.

I've never heard of, I've been in gay bars. I've never. Plenty. Insanely outnumbered. They could have easily pinned me down. I've had guys approach me. Sure. Offer to buy me drinks. And I go, I don't want to waste your time bro straight and they're just like and they go ah that's cool and they're like no

problem and that's it and sometimes you talk to them for five ten minutes after that that's it who cares and they give the best compliments the best oh who cares yeah you can take it as a compliment what the hell do you care anybody that finds you attractive take it as a compliment what the hell do you care anybody that finds you attractive take it as a compliment if you're a guy gay guys have said nicer things to me than any woman ever ever we're we're all terribly hideous deep down and and i think maybe guys can recognize that and sense that we might need a nice kind word once in a while that's so um anyway um he said that at that point when he when he told joaquin and i don't know there's no chicks here yeah this is getting weird um by the way everybody's shirtless at this point too that's another thing except for mario he's the only one who's got a shirt on yeah and he said at that point um joaquin jumped on him shirtless and straddled his waist like you

know jumped on him with like you know like he was riding him yeah which is also if you were going to pummel a person how you would get on top of them as well for sure for pain or pleasure that's a good position either one so either way it works is it reverse cowboy or the other way if it's reversed then it's there's no pain there really that's a that's an all-pleasure position if you're turning around showing your ass and get there's very little physically you can do at that point beat the shit out of my knees yeah punch my thighs what are you doing there give me charlie horses what's the worst you're gonna do massage my feet yeah no shit and you guys i can i have access to your asshole so i can retaliate

right in any way shape or form you mess with me at all i'm fucking i'm going right in i'm going in with a with a three-finger prong that's gonna send you to the moon buddy i'll tell you what it's gonna feel like electricity back here yeah so anyway he jumps on mario said that joaquin jumped on him shirtless straddling him and mario said that also made him uncomfortable he's like just the whole the whole vibe was just getting a little too underground leather bar for him and he needed to get the fuck out of there at that point yeah a little little blue oyster for him so he said that now luis is there as well he's he lives there though and he's fine he doesn't give a fuck luis i think maybe mario's a little take he's just being a little too come on relax you know what i mean a little too uptight turns out um he was absolutely right to leave but not for that reason okay okay so louise tested he just says that he went to sleep on the sofa because he had to work the

next day so he's like i don't know everybody can party and play as much grab ass as they want i'm going to fucking sleep i got a shift in the morning so um prior to him falling asleep though he said he saw guy go into the bedroom and fall asleep okay so guy went in there fell asleep he said at that point joaquin and jose they seem to be the most energetic yeah well the most energetic together yeah yeah they're racing together they're doing the extra shot together at point, two of the four are going to sleep, and Joaquin and Jose are staying up and playing more beer pong together. Jesus. How much beer pong do you have to play?

Just drink the beer at that point. That's my problem with drinking games, I think. Just drink it. I'm trying to get hammered. I don't need a reason to drink this. What, do I need permission? And then you're going to tell me how much to drink? What kind of – what's the brain – what's the mindset there yeah it's i need a group thing how much should i drink

and when should i drink it i'm good i'll drink what i want how much i want what i want isn't self-loathing a good enough game for you fucking people yeah we're all playing that game let's all play cry ourselves to sleep you know that one you ever played that yeah play let's play uh puke in the shower standing up i do that one a lot let's let's let's play then try to push it down the drain with my toe let's play that part too because i've done that also let's play heel smash you ever play it that's rice that'll fit down there that's fine let's play how many chicken chunks fit yep so that's what's going on and uh so he's his last you know his eyes closed and he's seeing beer pong being played everybody having a good time at that point mario was still there as well mario's still on the couch

next to him when jose decides to crash out or when i'm sorry i'm next to him when Jose decides to crash out I'm sorry, when Luis decides to crash out Last thing he remembers is everyone was having a good time Mario stays until 1am So he stayed a little longer even though he felt uncomfortable And was straddled by a shirtless man that he didn't want to be straddled by Either way Sometimes free booze will make you go to some weird shit That's what I mean

It'll make you go to weddings and funerals. If you're ethnic at all, it'll be a funeral afterwards. They'll be drinking. Don't worry. I don't understand funerals that don't have drinking afterwards. What's wrong with you people? I don't understand them that don't have it during. Well, that'll work, too.

This is a fucked up day. Italians are doing everything afterwards. The funeral's the most buttoned up thing in the world. Everybody's got to be dressed to the nines. You got to get all the flowers. You take your best car. You do the whole thing. And then as soon as it's over, you go somewhere and everybody drinks and gambles and they're

out their fucking ties off and there's guys playing dice in the corner and you're like, what the fuck happened? I thought we were trying to think about grandma. Like, grandma had her fucking due. I'm up 50. Shut the fuck happened i thought i thought we were trying to think about grandma like grandma had her fucking do i'm up 50 shut the fuck up grandma grandma i crapped out shut the fuck up over there see you made me lose you asshole so uh he leaves about one and the way he put it and met up with a former girlfriend he's like i gotta i gotta, I gotta, you know. Cleanse all the sausage fest with some.

I need some femininity in here. So he says that when he left, Luis is asleep on the sofa and Jose and Joaquin had finally stopped playing beer pong and they were just hanging out talking. Bullshitting. So they're the night owls here. So that's the scene that we set 1 a.m mario leaves luis is asleep guy is asleep in the bedroom and jose and joaquin are

having a nice drunken chat okay i'm sure about not much that mattered when you're that drunk at 1 a.m you're just like you know when i was, man, I didn't make the Little League team one time. I'm sorry, man. So that ended up happening. Now, Luis awakens at one point. He's awoken by the sound of a loud argument between Joaquin and Jose. Oh. He says that he saw Jose kissing Joaquin on the mouth. Okay.

So that's what he sees. He sees him kiss him on the mouth. And then at that point, um, it got kind of out of control very, very quickly here. Um, put it this way. All right. Um, oh, all right. So Jesus Christ. He says, Luis says at that point he heard Jose or Joaquin screaming, don't ever try to stick your tongue down my throat.

Oh. Which is, yeah, that's, I mean. That's fine. That's a fair reply to something. Yeah. It's at that point that Joaquin began punching Jose. He started punching him, and then when he fell down, he started stomping him as well. Oh, my.

Okay, then he went in and started beating Guy as well. He didn't even, nothing with the tongue. No, he was asleep at that. He wasn't even in the room, so he had nothing to do there. He wasn't even in the room, so he had nothing to do there. It's at that point that Luis got the fuck up and ran out of the house and ended up trying. He said he was going to go try to get a cop, basically, in his head. That's what he was doing. Well, yeah, he said he saw him with the first punch in the face.

He said Jose was unconscious. He knocked him out. Wow. Because he's 30 years older than him and been drinking all night. So, yeah, I mean, this guy knows how to punch punch he's probably never been in a fight in his life yeah i don't think he's there for a physical altercation probably that's the other thing so apparently um once he fell to the ground unconscious that is when joaquin got on jose's stomach and started punching and elbowing him in the face like mma style yeah except jose is to stop this and he's unconscious so he's not even covering he's just an unconscious man

being pummeled with punches and elbows in the face an unconscious man in his mid-50s mind you and i'm not saying that's an old person but you should probably stop taking major blows to the head once you turn 50 i'm gonna say it can't be good for you there's a reason they retire long before then yeah not a lot of boxers are 54 years old for a reason and they're not fighting 26 year olds i hope so exactly um they shouldn't be anyway for fuck's sake so um yeah this is all going on now luis before he leaves he's he tries to um he tries to pull Joaquin off of Jose, but Joaquin told Luis not to touch him and then went back to pummeling him. Okay. He gets up as well. When he tries to pull him off, Luis tries to pull Joaquin off.

Joaquin stands up, says, don't fucking touch me, and then continues to punch and kick Jose in the face after that. What the fuck, man? Okay. Luis said he saw Jose's head hit the living room wall after being kicked. He basically kicked his head into the living room wall so hard that it left a hole in the drywall. Wow. That is... That's force, man.

That's force, yeah. Imagine your head being up against drywall and someone kicking it so hard that it went through the drywall. Holy. That's fucking insane. That is horrific. It stayed together? Yeah, apparently.

I mean, it was bloody, but his head didn't explode like a grape or anything. No fractures or anything? I'm sure there was. We'll talk about the injuries here. So Luis said his cell phone was dead, so that's when he left the apartment to go get help. About 3.20 in the morning. By the way, he said at that time he didn't see Guy and he didn't know where Mario went

because Mario left after he was already asleep and Guy was asleep in the bedroom. after he was already asleep and guy was asleep in the bedroom so at 3 20 a.m luis approaches a police car at a gas station about a mile martin no luis does mario went with his ex-girlfriend mario went to hang out with a girl he left already okay luis tried to pull joaquin off he said don't touch me on the couch yeah luis's phone is dead so he runs runs a mile, a mile, a mile to the gas station where there's a police car there. And he walks up to the police car. And, yeah, he goes up. He tells this officer. He's like, listen, I want to remain anonymous, which obviously didn't work because his name is Luis.

And here we are. So he's his roommate. So he said, listen, I want to remain anonymous anonymous but um i gotta tell you some shit here basically he said i fear for my own safety uh number one and um you know so that's why i can't you can't tell what happened but there's a fight at my apartment between my roommate and this other guy and you might want to check it out looks pretty bad it's been going on since uh i ran a mile it could be worse by now or everyone could be tired and it could be over we don't know they could be playing beer pong again

by now for all i know but he said listen this is what happened he said there's i think there's three other people in the apartment and so basically he uh he says okay writes down all the shit writes down the information and he radios for a second police officer because if there is a fight involving three people, he should probably have more than himself to go break that up. So the two officers end up coming to the apartment to basically there's two drunk people. Luis said they've been drinking all night and they're fighting. So they're like, oh, for fuck's sake, idiots. Of course they were. Of course there is. there is yeah they were gonna go over there the kitchen table will be broken and like two dudes will be like no man we're fine nothing happened

that's what's gonna happen that's what they're thinking so they go over um the um they said that neighbors also neighbors had walked up to the cops as they came up and said they heard arguing and they were they asked the cops, is everything okay? So, you know, what's up with that? The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that.

Bing! The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face. I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave her

alone. Okay, so... This is not a so. This is a period. Classic Judy. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor. You married his cousin. His brother. Did you sleep with her? Yes, Your Honor. You married his cousin. His brother. That's not him.

Yes, ma'am. I would make a beeline for the door. The Emmy Award winning series returns. How did I know that? I have a crystal ball in my head. It's an all new season. It's streaming. You can say anything.

Judy Justice. Only on Freebie. Anyway, they knock on the door. He answers the door. Joaquin answers the door in his boxer shorts. How's it going, officers? They go, well, we've heard reports of neighbors saying there's arguing. Other people said they heard banging around and arguing and things like that.

We're just checking to see if everything's okay. Joaquin tells them, hold on, and he closes the door. Okay, hold on and closes the door and locks the deadbolt. Stay right here. Now, one of the officers notices a spot of blood on the outside of the door. Oh. He says, that looks like fresh blood right there on the outside of the door. So after about six, seven minutes go by with no Joaquin coming back to them, they knock on the door again.

Hey. Hey, buddy. Come back. He answers the door a second time. Hello? Like, yeah. Oh, you guys again. Yeah.

You said you'd be back then he says all right hold on i gotta get dressed slams the door and locks it again in their faces i thought that's what you were doing the first time where the fuck have you been so he says hold on i guess finishing a show yeah no hold on a minute. I got a chicken in the oven. I got to take it out. So as he shuts the door, one of the officers told the other that next time, or he said, when the door was open, I saw broken glass on the ground in there. Two seconds I looked in there and what appeared to be blood in the entryway. I think I saw blood on the floor and on the wall there so she says um somebody could be hurt in there some shit like that so we can probably get in here based on the fact that someone could be in danger yeah yeah we just saw blood and we've heard there's a fight so you know we can probably get in there and it's legal so what they

do is they go find the apartment manager he must have been thrilled at 4 30 in the morning to get awoken by police officers to say we saw blood all over one of your apartments that you're going to have to clean soon. Can we go in there? Can you open it for us? Fuck. So the officer, they get the key and then two officers and a sheriff's deputy who had now showed up. They all get to the apartment again and they enter the apartment. The way they describe it is

quote very very bloody oh boy the whole scene's bloody they see jose on the floor in the living room and they can tell they said he was obviously deceased was the way they put it what does that mean when you can see somebody who hasn't been dead for that long because we knew he was alive an hour ago right so when you see somebody who hasn't been dead for that long, because we knew he was alive an hour ago. Right. So when you see somebody who hasn't been dead that long and they're obviously deceased, that means there is some major fucking trauma on them that you can notice. This is bad. Yeah.

They said that we don't even need to check the pulse. That motherfucker's dead is a lot. So they find that. Then they go through the apartment, obviously, from there. They're like, well, let's see what else is in this apartment. As we heard, there's more people here. So as they go into the apartment, they find large, as they describe, large amounts of blood, not only on the floor, but also splattered all over the walls. Wow.

The furniture and even the ceiling. What happened? It looks like somebody went through this place with a chainsaw like in Scarface. Holy shit. It's fucking gross. And that's the best. That was how they described it in the report officially. They said all that.

The conclusion, gross. That was it. So they get through the apartment. And as they're walking down to the bedroom at the end where they assume joaquin might be they look into the bed uh the bathroom off to their right and they find guy in the bathroom and guy is also dead in the bathtub what he's dead in the bathtub they said both of the both of them had visibly swollen faces not swollen from being dead for a long time swollen from being beaten from pommels yeah yeah so at that point they've seen

now two dead people and they're still looking for the person they assume is the killer so they're on high alert as you might imagine so they're like fuck all right well there's only room left is the master bedroom here at the end and they're ready for they think he's probably in there with a fucking shotgun or something i mean he's a psychopath obviously so they come in and they're like all right let's do it let's do it tension building pow they open the door and he's on the bed sleeping what out sleeping yeah yeah they're like hey back i'm gonna put some pants on and he went to bed hey buddy they're shaking him yeah he won't he's acting like he won't wake up he's pretending to be asleep yeah they're shaking him and he's just acting like what is he thinking i don't care how

drunk you are they found two dead people do they think they'll go we'll come back later he's sleeping while he's sleeping we'll come back let's take a note on the fridge we'll tell him yeah well get tell the crime scene unit to be quiet tell them to be quiet don't even call them yet what does he think there's a note on the fridge to call us they'll still be dead when we get here they'll still be dead when we get here. They'll still be dead when we get here later. It's fine. What the fuck is he doing? What's he thinking? That's not the stress.

Not, I'll jump out the bedroom window. I'll just lay down and pretend to be asleep. So that's what they do. They find him pretending to be asleep. They handcuff him. They escort him out of the apartment. He's going, I was sleeping. What happened? What's going on, I was sleeping. What happened?

What's going on? I was sleeping. I don't know what. What are you doing? Why am I in handcuffs? I don't understand. I was sleeping. That's what he keeps saying, acting like he's just a.

Two dead bodies in my house? I don't know. Just pulled out of a REM sleep. What? I don't even. I was dreaming I was water skiing. I don't know. What?

I don't even. I was dreaming I was water skiing. I don't know. We just saw you three minutes ago at the door, man. Twice. Twice. You idiot. Remember us?

Yeah. So they walk him out. He's saying all that shit. What's going on? I don't know what's going on. So other than asking what's going on and pretending to be confused about why he's in handcuffs. He doesn't resist at all on the way to the car. So he's escorted to the car.

But then they said, all right, we're going to get you in the car. That's when he's fucking freaks out. Really? Yeah. Can't doesn't want to be. What do you think? We're going downstairs to chat. It doesn't want to be in the car.

Yeah. They're going to he's going to run behind the car. That's what he thought. So they're going to get to the police station they're gonna he's gonna run behind the car that's what he thought that sounds so they're gonna get to the police station walk to the station together so they stuff him into the car finally and he immediately slips his arms from behind his back to the front he does that move then he starts kicking trying to kick out the windows with his bare feet like a fucking idiot and he tells the officers as he's kicking the window, he's going to kill them. I'm going to kill all of you, especially you, Chuck Liddell.

He calls one of the cops Chuck Liddell repeatedly. If you don't know, Chuck Liddell is an MMA fighter. He's the ice man. At that time was a pretty prominent MMA fighter. Big deal. Well known anyway. Yeah. He's one of those guys that has a lot of people like he's overrated.

I don't know if that's true or not. I just see that a lot. That's insane. He was amazing. And even more so because he was the fattest, like the most paunchy, out of shape looking fuck ever. Yeah, I know. I remember.

Killed people. Like he was amazing. He was. So anyway, he keeps repeatedly calling the one Chuck Liddell and threatening his life. I'll kill you, Chuck Liddell. I'll fucking kill you, Chuck Liddell. Did the guy have a mohawk or something? Or did he just have a puppy?

No. No. That's the other thing. He bears no resemblance to Chuck Liddell. He just kept calling him Chuck Liddell and repeatedly telling him he was going to kill him. Okay. So I like, by the way, in the police report, it says this. This is a wonderful quote.

Quote, after he was pepper sprayed, he calmed down. That'll do it. That'll do it. When you're pepper sprayed in an enclosed space, you'll calm down pretty quickly. That's how it works. There's no escape from all this burning. Nope. So he calms down.

But on the way to the station station he again slips his hands out from under him and from behind him and begins you know acting a fucking fool in the back and trying to break when once you're in the car you're caught just anything you do you're just injuring yourself the cars are made for you to do that they're made they're tough you know upping the ante and possibly charges too with, with destruction of police property. Yeah. Even if you think you've done nothing wrong, kicking out the police windows, they're not going to go, oh, well, he did kick out the window. He's probably telling the truth.

Let's let him go. That's not going to happen. That is a dead indicator of an innocent man. I get your thought behind it. I understand your anger. But if you're going for results, that's not the way to do it. So they talked to some of the neighbors, by the way, because the press descended on this like a motherfucker. Two bloody bodies pulled out of an apartment and this guy in his underwear trying to kick windows out.

That's a story that writes itself. Oh, Tehachapi is going batshit for that. And it's a Tehach native you know fifth place emma fifth place high school wrestler come on man how who could resist that story you better get your scoop jesus woodward and bernstein were there it was fucking it was crazy so the one of the neighbors a woman named linda she said it's petrifying it's scary unless you're in there drinking with them it's probably not that scary petrifying petrifying is what she said she said she's lived here for years and never seen any trouble before she said um she doesn't know

joaquin never met him she said but there's a bunch of people i don't know because it's an apartment complex so she said quote a lot of gentlemen that live in this complex like that, they work on the windmills. They're here for a short period of time and they're gone. Oh, they're doing that. There must be wind farms up there. Yeah. So apparently this is like a transient windmill employee area. That's how they get their water.

That could be it, too. Yeah. They also wear wooden shoes there. This is actually a Dutch annex in Northern California. We're all Dutch here. It's just windmills and clogs as far as the eye can see. So, yeah, she said that they're there for a short time and they're gone. Now, obviously, he's not one of those people.

He works at Home Depot. But I would imagine that if it's kind of transient housing, it's probably low-priced. Probably. I bet it's a place that's low-priced and probably furnished, I would imagine, as well. It might be. Probably furnished, because these guys, you're not going to bring furniture to come work for a place for a month, but you need a couch. So I guarantee you it's a furnished joint as a kid i thought that was the greatest thing driving down uh 32nd street near the near the i-10 oh god you know the one i'm talking about i know exactly what you're going to say 6.95 a month furnished and i was like that sounds amazing that's amazing so many people

have jizzed on my couch cool hundreds of strangers has jizzed on my couch. Cool. Hundreds of strangers have jizzed on my couch. Now I'm going to take a nap on it on a Saturday afternoon. That sounds so convenient. As an adult, I'm like, ew. Oh, God, no. Kids, don't touch the furniture. Don't sit down. Just don't.

As a kid, though, yeah, you're like, ah. You just move in with your suitcase. You just walk in with your clothes and it's easy. It's done. It's all set up for you already. Yeah, because as a kid, nothing was more boring than shopping for a kitchen table or something. That would be the... Any furniture store or home product of any kind was a nightmare.

Fucking torture. Absolute torture. Appliances. Okay, let's go look for appliances great wonderful this is not for me my mother and her boyfriend back in the day at one point we went out to go to the store to look for quote wall hangings i was like eight i'm like i don't need anything on the walls this can't up a Lamborghini poster and we're finished. What are we talking about? Come on.

Mom, let's go to Walmart and pick up some fucking Michael Jordan posters. We'll be fine. Yeah, Hulkamania in that corner. It's perfect. No worries. Everybody, Bo Jackson, let's do it. Can we get that Ken Griffey with him with the bat over his shoulder? That was Bo too.

That's cool. That was Bo with the shoulder pads in the back. That's right. Yeah. That was badass. That was like an 89 score, I think, or something. Maybe not. It was 89, I think.

So anyway, one of the neighbors, a guy named Jason Perez, says he didn't hear anything or see anything. He says, I don't know what was going on until I woke up this morning when I found out and heard about it. Why would you quote that person in the paper those are two sentences that mean the exact same thing and they're completely useless to your news reporting you went to the complex to interview people they said give us a thousand words on you know reaction i need a thousand word reaction from the neighbors and they're like well

fuck all i have is this like well like one guy said i don't know what happened till i woke up and then i heard about it so i guess we'll put that in yeah found out about it and that's when i heard about it well let me what you said you found out and heard about okay good let me make sure i write that down about when you became aware of it should we put that i want to have a i have i know i have the tape recorder going we want to have a backup is what it is i just in case something happens digital things i want to make sure i have a backup is what it is i just in case something happens digital things i want to make sure i have a physical backup of what you said it's very became aware found out very important to the news now you're informed now you're informed so let's get to some not so funny stuff here now the the coroner the coroner said this is a fucking horrible guy, the one who was asleep. He said that the coroner said that Guy suffered approximately 20 to 30 blows to his left side and chest. And a minimum of 7 to 10 blows to the face, including one fracture so severe the bone caved in.

That's the elbow, right? Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm sure it Oh my God. Yeah, I'm sure it is, or it has to be. Otherwise, he'd have fucking probably broke his hand too. You know,

elbows are vicious weapons. And they said also hit him so hard. There was unusual bruising to his lips, consistent with smothering. My God. As well. So there's some suffocation mixed in here. Now,

Jose, he suffered a minimum of seven to 10 blows to his face, resulting in fractured bones. And then Joaquin kicked Jose in the head so hard that his head obviously went into the drywall, which caused more damage in the back of his head. They said Jose had severe bleeding near his brain stem and a neck compression injury. Either one of those could have caused his death. Wow. He broke his neck compression-wise like you would if somebody fucking hit a tree and then shot out the windshield and bashed into it with their head.

That's the kind of injury he had. And caused a brain bleed that would like, that would stroke you out, right? Yeah. And the neck compression could have caused death that means his neck was broken so badly it could have caused death that's unreal man that's like a plane those are like plane crash injuries that's fucking horrific so they pull joaquin in and they go what the fuck bro like we come in your house is bloody um you know you're you're these people have been people are dead clobbered and you're pretending you're sleeping so like what's the

fucking deal bro and he said i don't i don't know man i don't know those guys i have no idea who they are how they died that's a terrible story joaquin i don't even know them they went out for an hour and a half together at a restaurant. So, like, the waiter knows you knows them. You met up with them. Yeah. How many people? Think about what a bad story this is.

Just a terrible fucking story. How drunk did you get that it erased the last eight months of your brain? Yeah. Fucking gone. What about the whole night? And is he not thinking, like, oh mario went to dinner with us what about him you know what i mean he's been there luis was at the house he knows they're there we went to dinner with us mario just showed up oh yeah he showed up later sorry luis went to

dinner so either way he uh he gives a statement a detective asked him there's been some some things said they're trying to like give him the out. This is the out here. This is the we've talked about it in all sorts of murder interrogations. Murder interrogators always say the same thing. They say picture a tiny window in the upper corner of the room. Yeah. That window looks really hard to get through for this person. You have to make that window kind of seem like it's attainable for them. And they give them that out of why they did it and

it's like even if you beat your kid to death they'll be like i mean i've hit my kid before jesus christ this one must have just been at a weak skull or something this is ridiculous right like they'll say anything to get you to say yeah yeah i did it so kids clearly defective exactly your kid was fine you had a fucking eggshell skull what do you want from what are you gonna do about that eggshell it's not your fault so the detective said quote there's been some some things being said that maybe there was some maybe some gay stuff that uh tried to go on some gay stuff that tried to go on some gay stuff materialized and just tried to happen. It was its own being, and it had its own agency to do things. And it wanted to be at the party, too.

Well, I mean, if there's going to be a party, gay stuff's going to show up. There's booze and stuff. If you put music on, it's coming. Gay stuff loves parties. Gay stuff loves parties, yeah. That's the thing. And a lot of times, too, the problem is straight guys will invite gay stuff loves parties gay stuff loves parties yeah that's the thing and a lot of times too the problem is um straight guys will invite gay stuff into their parties

voluntarily especially if there's a lot of booze involved that's happened to you know people before and then afterwards they are like hey who invited gay stuff to the party throw gay stuff out no get him out of here man now gay stuff shouldn't be here. I kind of liked that. That was weird. Yeah. Especially, I don't know, super guys who love to roll around with other guys in their underwear and punch them and be like, why am I so attracted to you when I grind on you?

Why? Not that all the guys are like that, but a guy like this particular person is what I'm getting at. Gay stuff showed up and I like that but a guy like this particular person is what i'm getting gay stuff showed up and i like that it's here there you go um he said maybe someone tried to wake you up in the middle of the night with some gay stuff that's a quote from a homicide detective maybe so think of look at how eloquent this man is. There's been some things being said that maybe there was some gay stuff that tried to go on. Maybe someone tried to wake you up in the middle of the night with some gay stuff. Oh my God.

How do you not laugh saying that? Fuck my God. How do you not laugh saying that? Fuck, my God. I realize he's got to be professional and try to relate to this guy, but how do you say those words and not just giggle your fucking ass off? You have to phrase it like this. It's so ridiculous. It's just so dumb. He said, we don't know.

That's why we want to talk to you. You're a man. You're a macho man. This is the equivalent of a guy killed another guy and they go, well, he came at you, right? I get it. He came at you. What were you going to do? You had to kill him.

So it's one of those. Like, I get it. You're sleeping. Two guys try to attack you. Of course, they're going to try to pull a bunch of gay stuff on you. You might start trying to defend yourself. They're just trying to get him to say, yes, I guy and that's what it is that's where they want him to go so he says no not not even a little bit he said i don't know who those people are in my apartment

he goes the only people i know that would be there would be luis or maybe mario but yeah nobody else he they said well where were you that night then you didn't what'd you do and he said i went out to dinner with my girlfriend that night uh you know went out to dinner with my girlfriend i came home after dinner she went home and uh i went to sleep early you know get a good early to bed early to rise you know how it is everybody gets a worm i'm saying i'm looking for that worm son so you know i you know, I'm there. I got to get up. I got to do my road work, obviously. I got another MMA fight. I haven't had one in about five years, but I think I'm going to get back into the mix.

He said that he went to bed, and when he got home, like I said, passed out to get a nice early night's sleep. And he said, I woke up to the police shaking me, going, hey, buddy, we're knocking on my door. I don't know shit. That's it. He walked through through a blood bath to answer the door twice oblivious twice okay yeah he would have blood all over his feet as he walked through he wouldn't notice that oh why are my sheets bloody like none of that shit why is my carpet squishing beneath my toes super weird hey who's that dead guy in the living room? That's the first one I'd wonder.

Hey, that corpse wasn't there when I went to bed, was it? I don't remember that. I'm going to call Lisa and ask her if she remembers a corpse being in my living room when she was here last night because that is super weird. I don't know. That's a bit too much. I wonder if one of the neighbors is just storing it here for a minute. I better ask. This is a lot.

So, yeah yeah he said he woke up to the police quote banging on his door that was that so uh they at first he says he wants an attorney and then they were like well i mean we're just trying to say we went into your house and there's two corpses there i mean you're welcome to not answer any questions but you might want to clear up you know if it's an easy clear up i would clear it up now because innocent guys rarely need attorneys to to sort this out unless you're afraid of being framed you don't know i mean yeah i mean that's what i mean so maybe you might want to do that so he said all right fine and they said he was very foul-mouthed during the interview they said he moaned often too he kept going doing shit like that and he would chuckle a lot too

and he just kept saying like i didn't do anything wrong i don't understand he was doing that a lot i just i just don't get it i i went to sleep i i wake up there's banging on my door next thing you know there's b i don't understand even if you that was true there are two corpses in your house does that not concern you of what the fuck who killed two people while i slept i would be like this is fucking crazy are you kidding me and he was just like so strange at one point he just goes he sits there for a minute shrugs his shoulders puts his hands up you know like people do and he goes what a fucking nightmare i go to bed what a fucking nightmare he says i go to bed and this is what i wake up to like a dad who fucking woke up and his kids had gotten up at 6 a.m and tried

to make themselves breakfast and now there's eggs all over the fucking frozen onto the countertop this is i go to bed and this is what i wake up to no this is corpses in your house yeah there's a waffle iron with the eggs and waffle mix in the waffle iron god damn it they tried to watch a grilled cheese in the vcr like on mr mom or something from 1984 what happened here. You got to mix it before you put it in there. You don't just put eggs and waffle mix in it. What a mess. I go to bed and this is what I wake up to? Fair enough in that particular case, I would say.

This context, a beaten dead man in your bathtub and one on the floor. A deuce in your house. What a nightmare. What a your house. What a nightmare. Yeah. What a fucking nightmare. What a fucking nightmare. I go to bed and this is what I do.

Trying to get eight hours of winks. And he was trying to be like, you know what I mean, guys? You know what I mean when that happens? And they're just like, is this guy fucking for real? You can relate. Yeah. At this point, too, he doesn't know they have a witness that they doesn't know louise said is the one who got the cops and louise said hey i saw him kicking his head through the drywall he

doesn't know that so he's acting like weird another point is dinner with your girlfriend in 2000 what 14 is mad corroborative yeah oh god there's video of you from everything every ring doorbell you pass every goddamn outside of the restaurant the inside of the restaurant we can figure that out lickety split my man not to mention did she check in on fucking instagram and facebook of where they were is there pictures of her fucking food on there because if there isn't she wasn't there i'll tell you something there's no picture of her food i guarantee you she wasn't with you yeah chief and probably pictures of your food too either way you're hovering above it trying to just eat yeah or posing with it so either way

this is this 15 minute weird recording of him just being like ah jesus what a ridiculous like he got a flat tire just like that what a pound i'm late too on top of everything you know jesus christ very inconvenient he's acting very inconvenienced by the whole affair what else go wrong he said yeah i don't know i i just went out like i said i ate I ate dinner, had some drinks, and then I returned home. I went to bed because I have to work early the next morning. He said my two friends, he calls them Mario and Luigi. Poor Luis gets to be Luigi because the one's Mario. So he goes, Mario and Luigi were here when I went to sleep.

So maybe one of them did it. You know what? Those guys are assholes trying to do he said well he said they were there he goes they were over I can't say anything I don't even know who these two guys are so I don't know who they had over and killed he said I woke up the next morning police pounded on my door he said you know I must have been half asleep because I don't even remember closing the door on you guys that's how deep asleep i was i don't remember twice saying hold on a minute and then closing the door and walking through more now cold blood on the

floor don't remember that super weird he says i doesn't do that nor he said did he notice the dead body or the large amounts of blood pooled all over the living room and spread all over his walls and ceiling he was so sleepy yeah well he was sleepy jimmy there is that so i mean when i'm asleep boy am i asleep not a good story then he says this he says you know what though more i think about it he goes i don't remember anything obviously i don't know who those guys are that is one thing never met him before in my life that's for sure that's for damn sure he goes but on top of that no don't go through my cell phone please don't do that don't you dare don't look at my text messages where i fucking accepted a dinner invitation from the dead people but i don't know who they are but i do know that like i said mario and louise were there. And he said, now that I think about it, he goes, you know, there was some other people there when I went to sleep, too.

I didn't really pay much attention to them because they weren't my friends. And I never saw them before. But, you know, maybe once before they'd been over. I don't know who they are. He goes, but you know what the funny thing? He goes, Mario was acting weird that night. He said, Mario was really acting weird. And they go, really?

What kind of weird? They're going to feed into this. Go ahead. Tell us bullshit. Wow, what's he doing that's so weird, Joaquin? And he goes, yeah, man, he's acting weird. Then he goes, takes a pause, and he goes, I always think Marioio's working undercover if you know what i mean what i've always been suspicious gay guy yeah i've always been suspicious that you know what i think

now it's i don't know if that is i don't know those guys so i don't know if they're gay or not but i think maybe that's what's going on maybe it was a lover's spat with a three-way thing going on because mario did tell me that you know that's a thing so perhaps mario brought him to my house because he's got a girlfriend he didn't want her to find out totally and then he was my house yeah plowed some get some dudes over here jizz skeet came got some in his eye and he was like oh shit i'm gonna beat these guys to death um beat them to death and then he took off and then i wake up boom boom boom, boom, boom, knocking on the door, and poof, what do you know?

Corpse is in my house. All right, well, I'll be going now. I need to get back to sleep. I got to shift at about 8 at Home Depot, so I'm going to get going now. You ever heard, you can do it, we can help? I got to go help. I got to be the one. I have to be there if that's going to be true, basically.

I don't want to make Home Depot a liar. I don't want to make Homer a liar. I'm going to make liars out of them. I don't want to make liars out of them. I'm not going to make liars out of them. They're there to do it. I've got to be there to help. That's the way this whole thing works. They've got to make money.

Tony Stewart's got a race this weekend. They've got to pay him a shitload. Yeah, I know he killed a guy. That doesn't matter. I understand. They don't mind. They don't mind at Home Depot. That's fine with them, they said.

So he's always felt that Mario was working, quote, working undercover. Hilarious. Which is closet gay, he's trying to say here. He said, yeah, I don't know anybody. He said, you know what? When I walk through the living room, like, how can you not notice a corpse on your floor? Especially a stranger's corpse. If it's like a guy that sleeps over all the time and you know that guy, that'd be one thing.

But this is a stranger and he's on your floor. And he said, you know what? I wouldn't have noticed if someone was on the floor. Quote, people are on my floor all the time. Wow. Are they dead? Are they covered in blood? that's a new one yeah right yeah how many dead people are on your floor so yeah they so they end up you know arresting him

and they take him into jail or holding him anyway on you have dead people in your house that's a general hold i think right uh suspicion explained? Unexplained corpses in your house, probably. I don't know. Yeah. At least improper disposal of a human remains, I think. So anyway, he ends up talking to the media later on that day. What? They show up and he talks to them.

Yeah, they show up to jail with the cameras and I guess at his arraignment possibly or something. And he denied any involvement with the crimes to the press. He I didn't do anything I was hanging out with my friends I woke up to the police banging on my door he goes I do want to send out uh my thoughts and prayers to the victims families though because you know big shout out to the fam big shout outs thoughts and prayers because you know it is very it's very, very sad what happened to I don't know them. So I can't feel anything really inside. But they did die in my apartment. So thoughts and prayers.

That's what he said. Got to assume they got families. They must have. Someone must be related to these fucking people. So that's what he said. He said again. So they asked him, you don't know what happened. He said, quote, I went to sleep.

Everyone was fine. And then he said he's in shock and he didn't know what happened. And then he said, it's all too crazy. It's like a nightmare. It's like a nightmare. I don't get it. I would say it's more than that. A little more than a fucking nightmare, because at least you can wake up from a nightmare.

This one. Your life's over if if we if we can figure anything out so at the arraignment his attorney requests the court why don't we just stop with all this he killed people stuff this is all getting way too finger pointy you know what i mean let's go ahead and dismiss that second count of first degree murder because by he said there's no indication that Joaquin was near the second victim who was found in the bathroom. So there's a wall separating him.

Yeah, obviously he was. We get it. It's in your in the prosecution that we have a witness that saw you beaten on Jose. But he even if you think he killed Jose, that doesn't mean he killed the other one. He killed Jose, went to sleep, someone else came in and did the exact same murder in the exact same way to the other guy and then left him there.

What a fucking nightmare. Can you believe it? I go to sleep with one corpse, you wake up to two? What the hell? They're multiplying. Oh my God, it's like having gerbils. They fucking have more gerbils.

I don't understand it. And that was not a gay joke to mention gerbils either. That was just... He mulched the second corpse? I had gerbils when I was a kid, and they reproduced like crazy. Did you wake up to... I had hamsters that did the same thing. Woke up, and I had no idea, because I'm a fucking 12-year-old.

And I woke up and there's just all these things in the cage. I'm like, what the fuck? Have they shit those? What happened? And then my mom was mad because she was like, I thought we got two males. I don't think so, Mom. I gave like 21 of them to a pet shop. Here you go.

They took them. Well, yeah, because they're about to make at least 12 bucks a piece pet shop. Yeah. Here you go. They took them. Well, yeah, because they're about to make at least 12 bucks a piece off that. What the hell? So, yeah, he said, what a crazy thing to say. It's a ridiculous story. How can a lawyer stand up and say, I get the one, but the other one dismissed that because he wasn't even in the same room with them. They're in an apartment. What are you talking about?

The other one dismissed that because he wasn't even in the same room with them. They're in an apartment. What are you talking about? I think of all the people on earth that I feel bad for, James, I think defense attorneys are beginning to be my number one that I feel worse for. Because sometimes they have crazy shit they have to do. And it's important that people go, oh, goddamn defense attorneys. But if you're accused of something, you want a fucking defense attorney. You know what I mean?

Well, you're entitled to it. For that time when someone's innocent, all the rest of the time you've got to just as vigorously defend shitty guilty people. So you've got to go, what now? Hold on a minute. Okay, two people. You're asleep, covered in blood. Witness saw you. Okay, how can we?

Well, the one, you weren't even in the room with that guy. Okay, we can. It's just one now. Now we can work with that. What do you say we take our chances whittling it down to one and defending that one? How about that? Yeah. What do you say you started the beating on the other guy? Then you went to sleep.

Then the second dead guy killed that guy. Then your friend killed the second dead guy. Boom. Done. You're clean. We're going to find a story that fits. In and out. Where's Mario?

It's his fault. find a story that fits in and out where's mario it's his fault so he then said that also you really should dismiss both charges because there's no hard evidence that he could have beaten the anybody with his bare hands because quote when officers could not find a speck of blood on his hands well i mean i'm sure he sure he couldn't have washed obviously that's impossible impossible to wash no who washes that's crazy i mean where would you do that in the in the bath uh where another dead body is so impossible it's impossible never mind occupado never mind she'd be covered in blood he'd go up never mind so the trial the judge goes get the fuck of here. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Shut up.

I'm so sorry that this is your job. You're going to have to do your job better because this is awful. Wow. That was creative, but no. That's probably what he said. Nice try. Because judges are lawyers. They must go, I would have never thought of that, actually.

That's pretty creative. Nice try. I mean, it's terrible and obviously legally unsound and fuck off and bang, bang. You took a solid swing at it. I will give you that. Hell of a rip. A creative attempt at a defense of your client. Not bad.

So during the trial, the trial is two men and ten women is the jury, by the way. Okay. So that's an interesting breakdown breakdown i don't know who it seems like the prosecution was like i think we'll do better with women and the defense was like i think we'll do better with women that's what i think it is like both sides which happens sometimes both sides think that one particular person will like them well i got news for you you have a bunch of women on a on a stand or on a jury and two gay guys are dead it's over for you and they've been beaten severely it's over for you and you're gonna say it's

because they and judging you assume they're gonna say it's because they came on to you and women are like i would should have beaten 400 men to death by then by now then you know how many men i should have beaten to death by that logic you're an idiot by that logic every woman would have six seven hundred corpses under their belts hot ones would have thousands of men thousands of corpses under their belts they'd be like stalin or ediamine or something they'd be fucking body count would never relate to how many you fucked ever it would only be the ones that deservedly and justifiably have been beaten to death and drugged behind the back of their fucking subarus that's it no hot chicks would have they need death camps to keep everybody because there'd be so thousands of every day

there'd be dozens of people every time you go to the grocery store that guy said this he said that ogling oh forget about it you go to a bar. Oh, boy. That's a dozen guys a night. You're going to have to slaughter fast. Fuck me, man. So now the prosecution says that obviously they have to say that he before he invoked his Miranda rights, he denied any knowledge or involvement in the crime. So they were taking that as his statement because that was before he invoked his rights. And they're saying that his claim at this point at trial

is self-defense. That's what they're claiming. Wow. He's going to testify in everything saying it's pure self-defense. And the prosecutor says this obviously contradicts his prior statement, which said that he doesn't even know right he doesn't even know him and he said even they said in the opening the detective specifically asked him remember that terrible terribly ineloquent statement about you know was there some gay stuff maybe was there a

little bit of gay stuff they touch your butthole or what buddy buddy was it your butthole is that what they touched so he said you know there was that he goes it's completely contradictory to say self-defense after the guy asked him if was it self-defense and he said i don't even know these people what a nightmare i wake up to this shit the luck is the luck i have you know type of shit so he said that um you know what he must have been lying at some point when's he why would you believe him now if he says that before? He said it's completely too starkly contrasting versions of events that cannot be reconciled significantly. And they said that should damage his credibility. It's going to undermine his claim that he's being victimized and that he feared further attack and the act of self-defense.

Because neither of these guys have ever fought professional fights, and they're both in their mid-50s i must say that again unless you're like a super there are tough guys in their mid-50s don't get me wrong i don't think these two are those guys though i just they might be yeah but it doesn't seem like they're probably a formidable physical threat to a 26 year old former mma fighter i just don't see that as probably an equal matchup. It's a pretty good assumption being that I've maybe seen two mid 50s gay guys who looked like they were in good enough shape to fight. Oh no they might be in great shape

I'm sure they're in great shape they could be fat they could be skinny or muscle it doesn't matter just like anybody else that's not the point I'm trying to make. I just mean I just mean well enough built to fight a guy who's actually fought. Yeah, I think that goes for like any mid-50s. You could have taken gay out of that equation.

I've seen some big, fat, thick 50s guys that look tough. You know what I mean? Yeah. They look tough because they're big and fat, but they're also older. And if you hit them in the face, they'll probably fall down. They'll probably shrink a little bit. Yeah. There's a lot of our listeners like, hey, assholes, we get it. Do you want to be punched in the face, 55-year-old listener?

No. That's our point. No. You're going to go, Jesus Christ, then I'm going to have to go to the neurologist and get that checked out. That's what you're thinking at your age, because that's what you should be thinking, because that's normal. Yeah.

Well, I'm 41, and if I got punched in the would think now i need uh now i need a rectal cam to make sure that didn't give me cancer yeah anything could happen with that shit jesus christ so they said that uh yeah all that garbage self-defense and everything like that the um they the judge rules that the prosecutor is entitled to use his prior inconsistent statements against him, including his failure to mention any need for self-defense to the detectives when he made his initial statement. They can use all that to impeach his credibility of self-defense. Therefore, you know, it makes him look worse. It's just you can impeach him right away with the jury immediately. So at that point, his credibility is badly damaged so

then he kind of has to testify it's kind of backing him into a corner where he's got to testify and be believed by the jury period so um yeah uh the defense attorney when he's doing his opening there his whole thing is that um he he says that well we'll get into, he says that, well, we'll get into this. He says that he says that, yes. Um, he also says that Jose threw the first punch as well, which that's unlikely. Yeah. So his case is that, yeah, he was an MMA fighter. He was decent at it, but they were like, he wasn't any good at it, which we can attest to that.

That's true. I know that to be true. Yeah. He said though, he did keep in shape at it, which we can attest to that. That's true. I know that to be true. He said, though, he did keep in shape and retain the techniques he learned, but he stopped MMA fighting in 2010. He said now his defense is that he did kill Guy and Jose. He killed them. Now it's true. He goes from I didn't know them to yes, I did kill them. That's why they're saying that his statements are so inconsistent.

kill them that's why they're saying that his statements are so inconsistent so he says that he did kill them with with his bare hands and he did lie about his involvement during his interviews with the police and in the media on the day of the crimes yeah he said he didn't tell the truth because he was scared and embarrassed embarrassed embarrassed here okay this is his story he met them uh he met he and luis met them dinner that night, and they went back to their apartment after socializing. They were joined by Mario, had a good time. They're drinking, they're partying, doing their thing. you saw him do it he never went down to his bedroom with guy and jose he said he did at one point give them a brief tour of the apartment to show them where the blankets and pillows were kept because he was more comfortable if they spent the night rather than go home so drunk yeah yeah you know he's just only worried about their safety what a guy and he's a he's just a hell of a mensch is what it is good friend so good friend friend. He said that, that's all he was doing.

He said that, yes, he did jump on Mario that one time, but he said he didn't straddle him. He jumped on Mario's back, and he said, I most certainly didn't have my shirt off. It wasn't a shirtless straddle. It was a shirted piggyback ride. Yeah, a fully clothed piggyback ride. Fully clothed, standing up koala bear that's all now does that sound sexual to you no right a shirtless straddle that could be interpreted as sexual so he said he went to bed around 12 30 and closed his bedroom door he said at that point luis was

still awake mario was still there drinking guy and Jose were still in the living room so Joaquin says his routine as was his routine this is the this is the whole defense attorney's opening he's got to explain what happened in the story because this is our only time in the beginning to set the narrative this is our narrative we're going to do and then we'll give you the witnesses to fill it in so as he does as his his routine he completely disrobes he gets completely naked to go to sleep yeah as he always does sleeps in the buff with his ass propped in the air also that's the other thing it's on his stomach with his ass in the air he testified later on and he'll testify to this is what the guy's saying, and this is their story,

that he awoke in pain as Guy's penis penetrated his anus. That's what this defense attorney had to say. And he had to put some chest into it, too. He had to be like, he awoke in pain as this man's penis penetrated his anus. That's not right. What would you do, ladies and gentlemen? If it's in the brown, he can't go down. You know what I'm saying?

Acquit. You must acquit. That's what I mean. I think that's what he would have said. Oh, boy. That's not good at all. It's in the brown. He's not going down.

So innocent man, everybody. Yeah. He says that that is wild. That's what he says. He's been woke up by that. He says that as Guy, even though he woke up, he couldn't get up. He said he woke up and he was oh my god what's going on and he said as guy raped him yeah you know as guy continued to rape him jose held him down by the

shoulder and licked his face so he had to put a little extra stank on it too to make it sound like you know they were doing real dirty, weird gay stuff to me. I don't know what it was. They lick each other's faces. Did you know that? It's creepy, man. With one of his wrinkles, he's holding him by the shoulders, licking his face. Yeah, that's his story.

He saw that in a movie once or something, I'm sure. I've never heard of this. Then he said that he felt shock, panic, and fear. And he said he was concerned Guy had AIDS. He just assumed he had AIDS because he looked kind of sick. And he was aware that he had medical appointments sometimes. I don't. So he must have AIDS. That's what he must have

has to be AIDS he got a lot of checkups I assume it's AIDS I'm sure probably AIDS has to be looks like he lost 5-10 pounds probably dying of full blown AIDS I assume right can't be that he had the flu

or you know the week before the next time somebody tells me they have a doctor's appointment, I'm just going to go ahead and assume. Full blown? Yeah. Full blown, too. I mean, really, he's on his way out. You all right? Yeah.

How's your tooth count? Full Louganus or what are we talking here? How are we? How are we doing? Look at you, Rock Hudson. Enjoy it. Yeah. On a scale from Ryan White to Magic Johnson, where are you?

Where are you on that scale? What a ridiculous conclusion to jump to. As a guy who's been raped, James, none of those thoughts go through your head. I promise you that. I didn't want to say it. Okay, thank you. I didn't want to say it okay thank you jimmy's i didn't want to say now jimmy tell me through your experience that's for you to bring up but

those are the last i was hoping you would probably say that it's been 31 years since and i still have not thought that that was his immediate right now thought right now ew he licked my face and i bet i have aids now those are his thoughts first thought is always i hope this is over soon i'd like this out of my asshole would be the first thought probably i hope this stops before i finish this thought is the first thought yeah then the second is somewhere around holy fuck this hurts and i'm probably gonna die from this that's those are the two immediates not the logic of well guy looks kind of sick i heard he had a doctor's appointment the other day i better get him to stop fucking me then if he if he looked fine i would have let him pound away on me even though it wasn't consensual but i thought oh god he looks sick i better stop so he said it was at that point that the fear of aids got in him and

then he was able to struggle free because he was so fueled by the fear of aids that he was struggled free and he got up from the bed and went into the bathroom, which was in the hallway, as we know. He said that at that point, he said, hey, you guys get out of here. You leave. You're bad rapist people, and you get out of my house. He said in the bathroom, he turned the water on in the sink and in the bathtub, get them both cranking, and he washed his face to remove Jose's saliva because he could feel the spit drying on there. He said he prepared to get in the shower at that point. Right, because you've got to

wash that backside too. You've got to wash it all out. And he figured that, you know, he told them to leave. I mean, yeah, they did try to rape him, but I'm sure they're not impolite. I'm sure they'll leave when told to leave. Yeah, they're rapists, but I mean, there's a limit to your

going to spit in someone's hospitality. There's a fucking limit to that. He shows you where the pillows and blankets are. When he tells you to leave, you leave. Rapists never loiter. No, that's the thing. They are, once you tell them to leave, they'll leave. So he said that as he prepared to get in the shower, Guy came into the bathroom again.

Man, this guy, woof he is he is something he said that guy approached him and tried to grab him by the shoulders yeah i don't know if in a like hey buddy it's an okay okay massagey way or in like i'm gonna grab you and pull you down to my dick more yeah i'm not sure but he said um he told he, I told him to get away from me, and I pushed him. And that caused him to fall into the bathtub, which had been on, so there's water in there. He said, so then he grabbed Guy by the throat and hit him approximately 10 times while he was holding him down. Grabbed him by the throat and just started punching him. He said that he possibly squeezed guy's throat he's not sure though because it was all happened

so quickly and his fear of aids took over his rational thought also that's the other thing so he said but he definitely hit guy in the face as hard as he could he was wailing on him he said he said guy struggled some while he was hitting him but he stayed in the bathtub where he first fell and um that's where they found him dead was in the bathtub where he first fell. And, um, that's where they found him dead was in the bathtub. So he said at that point, once guy seemed like he wasn't moving anymore, eh,

Joaquin just washed his hands of the blood. And then he walked out of the bathroom. He said, as he walked out of the bathroom and went to enter his bedroom, he ran into Jose. He was exiting the bedroom. Yeah. Oh boy.

He said, you get out of here right now jose you leave you leave my apartment of a bitch you pervert yeah you get out of here right now you face-licking pervert he told him to leave and he said they struggled because jose was like no buddy i'll fight you obviously because you know how to fight you're 30 years younger than me but i think i think we should have a physical altercation right so he said that was they struggled joaquin said he pushed jose toward the living room at that point jose punched him in the face oh man this poor guy he's been raped and licked and punched he's really been through the ringer tonight here so he says at that point uh he hit him and then uh joaquin

said he hit him back you take that buddy you know and that's when jose fell to the ground he said he couldn't tell if jose was conscious or not but he knows he didn't move after the first punch which is a good sign of unconsciousness. Usually people will at least grab where they've been punched if they're conscious. Ouch, hit here and it hurts. Yeah. So, no. He said that, yeah, that's how that went. Then he said he hit Jose approximately 10 times as hard as he could.

And he said that he may or may not have stated. He's not sure, but it's pretty sure he could have been yelling, quote, don't you ever put your fucking tongue down my throat. But he was referring to when Jose licked his face and attempted to kiss him. So he's just general beef with Jose's tongue, apparently. He just doesn't like it. Okay. He said then he kicked Jose near where there was a hole in the drywall, but he doesn't know if he put him through the drywall. near where there was a hole in the drywall,

but he doesn't know if he put him through the drywall. He said that he felt Luis grab him and told Luis several times not to touch him. And after Luis attempted to intervene and then left, he tried to drag Jose out of the apartment. That's what Joaquin did. So Joaquin's saying all of this happened with Luis still there. Luis was there, and then he said Luis left, and then he said, because of this happened with Luis still there. Luis was there. And then he said, Luis left.

And then he said, because he has to reconcile Luis being there, because he is there. He's a witness. So he said, Luis left. At that point, he tried to drag Jose out of the apartment and apparently got, you know, fucking as far as the living room near the door. He said, so after that, Joaquin said he walked outside of his apartment for a minute get a breath of fresh air fresh air yeah that fresh california air some nice air in here get some windmill air going and then he said he went back inside and splashed some water on himself and may or may not try i've tried to wipe down the apartment but maybe not who knows i'm not sure

you know that goes he said that he also ripped both of their shirts in anger okay after they were dead then he went and ripped their shirts because he was still so mad at them that the only way he could get it out was to rip a shirt okay which is again very strange he said that the police probably arrived about 20 minutes later and he does recall answering the door and he does remember pretending nothing happened that is true he did do that but it's only because he was so scared and panicked and embarrassed now that makes sense right okay so we can all go home no um he said that he did not want to enter the patrol car that was true he was upset and agitated but he did he absolutely did not scream and yell never threatened anyone didn't say he wanted

to kill anyone and he would never call a an officer of the law a sworn officer of the law chuck liddell never did that and wouldn't do that because that's ridiculous and he's not that kind of guy it's 2014 there's no cameras in this car apparently not um we're in tachypete california no they don't have cameras they're down in los angeles they got cameras for movies up here newport beach yeah jesus christ think we are san francisco i didn't think so. Fancy. All fancy. You think we are Modesto? Think we're all fancy Modesto? No, I didn't think so.

This place is a piece of shit. We had so many Modesto conversations this weekend. Talked about Modesto for 45 minutes on a car ride this week that was ridiculous what a horrible place neither of us ever hung out in modesto we've heard terrible things about it how dare they call themselves california like oh this is bad just say nevada and shut the fuck up bakersfield closer to the beach yeah yeah so he would never call an officer of the law chuck liddell he would never threaten to kill anybody he also said that he never threatened them he didn't try to damage the police car he definitely didn't try to kick out windows they put the cuffs on him and he calmly sat in the car and awaited his transportation and he said out of nowhere the door opens and

they started pepper spraying me for nothing some of them bitches quote for no reason the defense attorney says he said he only slipped his arms from behind his back to his front because he was in extreme pain from the handcuffs yeah and from the rape also the rape he was yeah rape the handcuffs no his butthole's fine now. It's recovered. Now he's more worried about handcuff things. And he said while he was being transported, he slipped his arms forward a second time. But, you know, that was only because he was so uncomfortable.

And he said, yes, while he was being questioned, the detective did give him an opening to explain what happened by asking him whether, quote, some gay stuff went on. But he was in denial and he lied because he was, quote, ashamed, embarrassed and fearful. Yeah, that was a nice door opened where you could have reported a rape. Yeah. Oh, they tried to rape me. I had to beat them off of me. That doesn't sound right.

That sounded worse than, okay, God, I am 0 for 2 on shit, accidental gay puns today. They tried to rape me. Instead, I beat them off. Instead, I beat them off is not, exactly, that's what I said. That's not good.

That's bad. So he said that he was, he denied, he said he never even said a word about Mario during his statement to the police and the police must have made that up but on the stand he says I do feel like Mario had

some involvement in the situation though now that you mention it he said he thinks he egged on Jose and Guy although he did not see Mario after he went to bed to the apartment that evening he thinks he must have been out there like yeah no go ahead and go fuck him in there he loves it no i talked to him one time he said his fantasies to go to sleep and wake up getting raped he said it's his

total it's his fantasy he oz is his favorite show seriously looking is a terrible fantasy that yeah and that's a terrible defense that's what mario told these guys i'll go you should do it so then he has to sit for cross-examination after he says all that horse shit you know and his his attorney walks him through it like oh i know i know this is hard for you and i know you've you know your butthole's still sore and all everything else that's going on and everybody you know still we got to do this. So cross-examination, the prosecutor comes in and he's like, you know, this today in court is the first time you've ever mentioned anything about rape. This is now. This is it.

Before that, for the last year and a half, we haven't heard a word about this shit. Nothing. And he said that, you know, well, yeah, you know, yes, I did. They go over. You said you had no idea what happened, right? you know, I guess I did. They go over. You said you had no idea what happened, right? Yes. So you lied about this. You lied about that.

They said there was no significant injuries to you. You weren't attacked. You weren't beaten. You didn't complain of any pain anywhere on your body during your arrest. You didn't ask to go get medical attention. You didn't ask to get, you know, to get tested for anything. None of that. He said, well, I was afraid to find out if i had aids then after that so i didn't want to be tested said okay okay so they they you know they go over his description of the rape and the pummeling and

that he does and everything like that and he goes well that's funny because that all of that is inconsistent with the way the blood spatter is. Nothing you're saying matches up with the physical evidence. It all matches up to what Luis says, but not what you say. So that's kind of weird. So then here's they have a little exchange here. Prosecutor says, but your story today, and this is the first time you ever told anybody else, excluding your attorney, obviously. I don't want to know about any conversations you had with your attorney. That's privileged, he says. But this is the first time you ever said that Jose attacked you, correct? And he says, yes. And he goes, okay. And this is

the very, very first time that you've heard all the evidence in this case presented by the people that Guy attacked you. And he says, yes. And then he says says and in that moment in time later on he says in that moment in time your statement again for the very first time and nobody has heard this before is that guy attacked you in the bathroom and there's some objections and all that sort of shit and um i guess he said it was yesterday is the first time is what they come up with so yes they go okay that's fine and then they also they uh they categorize it as a hail mary attempt at a defense that's what the prosecution says repeatedly calling it his hail mary attempt yeah at a at a fucking uh at a defense so

yeah he's he's kind of fucked and then the next next day DNA is coming into the equation here. Uh-oh. Yeah, there's DNA, and one of the police officers talks about how he was very reluctant to give DNA. He says, I explained to him that we were going to take a swab and some swabs from his body, and he was a bit reluctant to allow me to do that. So I presented him with a search warrant that I had authored. Oh, boy. to allow me to do that. So I presented him with a search warrant that I had authored.

Oh, boy. And they said, in addition to allowing you to take a swab, did the search warrant authorize you to take photographs as well? Yes, they did. He says, and did you actually, did you actually allow the defendant

to read the search warrant? He said, yes, I did. He said, did you watch him looking at it? He said, yes, I did. So, I mean, he knew all of that shit. He said, and after reading the search warrant, they said, did you watch him looking at it? He said, yes, I did. So, I mean, he knew all of that shit. He said, and after reading the search warrant, they said, did the defendant's demeanor change at all? And he said, I don't know if I would classify it like that. And so they go back and forth like that.

And he goes, well, in which way? He said, well, he complied with the search warrant, but he didn't seem happy about it. It was one of those. He wasn't going to do it until there was a search warrant essentially here so they collected the dna from him they bring him up there and have this back and forth with him about his dna and fucking did you wanted to give them your dna right and he's like oh absolutely i couldn't wait to give him my dna i love giving my dna i asked if i needed jizz on something i would have done that i I didn't care.

I was like, I'll fucking come all over this room. I don't give a shit. I'm backed up. I was super horny. I mean, no, I didn't mean I was horny earlier. I mean, never mind. So he's a little bit fucked at this point, and he's waiting for the closing arguments because this looks bad. You know what I mean?

Very, yeah. It looks real fucking bad and uh he's not exactly a popular guy around uh anywhere i'm sure he's hated now no one really likes him that much and he's sitting there and um he here one day he thinks that they're searching the cells he's like oh no they're coming to search my goddamn cell right now this totally sucks this is blows and it turns out he's like, oh, they brought fucking dogs this time. Jesus Christ. I don't have any drugs.

But it turns out it wasn't a search party. It was Bobby Colorado making a special visit. It turns out he does inmate work with canines in jail, apparently. So he came in there and he says. So he came in there and he says. How is it you come to arrive here, you fucking jerk off? What's wrong with you? It's 50 fucking something year old guy.

They couldn't even pick out a fucking barbecue. They're going to they're going to pin you down and rape you. Get the fuck out of here. Look at you. You're a fucking Adonis. You know how to punch people. You're all fucking muscly and shit. Get the fuck. I wouldn't even give you one of my dogs matter of fact i got a dog i train real well hey come here come here hey you yeah that's right you come on pee on him look at that pee right on your fucking leg look at i trained him to do that normally i go hey you

need a dog you need some company but go fuck yourself you're kind of a jerk off you're a fucking liar you'd not feed the dog i go you feed the dog and you go yeah and then the dog be fucking starving over here fuck you i don't like you i'm taking my dogs and i'm leaving i'm gonna go be nice to other i'm gonna let other inmates pet my dogs all right how's that poof and dog shit and marinara sauce big cloud he's gone he's gone no gay stuff hey listen i'm not gonna do no gay stuff i'm not here for no gay stuff all right so the defense man and his closing fuck me it's a public defender named pam sing um and asked the jury for acquittal. You should acquit him on the grounds of self-defense.

Yeah. And if you can't go that far, how about a lesser charge? Maybe voluntary manslaughter. Please. So come on. Come on. My record depends on you. Yeah. They even said while Guy and Jose were.

Yeah, they were friendly getting along earlier in the evening. That doesn't mean they weren't going to try to rape him later. Yeah. Maybe they were luring him in for the rape, even though he's an MMA fighter 30 years their junior with two of his friends around. That's the guy you probably got to try to rape, I think. That seems logical. They said both of the men were highly intoxicated, bringing up blood alcohol contents of.26 and.19, which always means that they must have tried to tag team rape the guy while he slept, obviously. What's the level of intoxication where you're welcoming in non-gay people into your gay stuff?

Totally, yeah. You're forcing, not welcoming. Yeah. Forcefully inviting. Welcoming might be a lower bar, you know. yeah exactly you're forcing not welcoming yeah and welcoming might be a lower bar you know hey whatever but forcing is a different story that's a lot so they said look listen there was blood joaquin's blood was found on his own mattress oh who's who has a fucking mattress that doesn't have a if they went over with a fine tooth comb a speck of your blood on it somewhere probably it's there man especially if you just beat two people to death your knuckles are going to be yeah something you know what i mean you're going to break the skin if you've

ever had like a bug bite and scratched it too much until it has a little bit of blood on it you're you got scratched yourself in the fucking night done something at a pop a pimple pimple yeah anything it's happened you your blood is your dna is all over your your fucking bed it's there but they said this blood was obviously from being raped oh that's what it was and he said he didn't tell investigators what happened because he was humiliated he was also scared both of what he'd done and what had been done to him he said that you know because they were a gay couple he assumed that they probably gave him aids that's the defense attorney said

that they said not that that's right but that was what he was thinking he doesn't know any better he's not educated on the matter and they said while the killings were especially brutal because i mean the fucking pictures look like they they've been beaten with a fucking, you know, like they took a tire railroad tie and beat them to death with it. It's crazy. He said, but they were committed in self-defense. Come on. Come on. So the state, on the other hand, prosecutor says he tells little lies.

He tells big lies. He tells lies in between those lies. That's a fucking awesome. Sounds like a lyric to something. Yeah. He tells big lies. It sounds like a commercial. He tells lies in between those lies. Yeah. That's a fucking awesome statement. That sounds like a lyric to something. Yeah. He tells big lies. It sounds like a commercial. He tells lies in between the lies.

All the lies. Get your lies now. 1999. Lies all month. New supply of lies every month. New more lies. More lies. He's got all the lies.

Sounds like the lyrics to a song of a breakup song from some girl. Or like a Peter Gabriel song. In your lies. Yeah. The rape and the punch in your lies. So he said he, the defense again goes through the whole thing. He awoke to find himself in pain and being raped in his own bed my god he said he didn't strike either one of them in the bedroom or yell for help or even wake louise up or even call 9-1-1 he just went to the bathroom to try to get this the spit off his

face and feel like a person again and they said you know when the guy reached out for him in the bathroom he just knocked him backward just to say get away from me with your penis and everything, you know. And then he fell into the tub and he goes, wow, since he's already there, I don't want him to get up and obviously do that to me again. So he just held him by the throat and rain blows down upon him, accidentally causing his death. Yeah. He said, you know, again, he didn't call 911 and wake Luis up, go, holy shit, go seek safety, call 911. Instead, he was just like, I'm going to go back to sleep now. And he saw Jose, and then he had this big struggle, and he was even undeterred by his friend trying to pull them off the man.

He even said, no, get the fuck away from me, and continued to beat him to death. said no get the fuck away from me and continued to beat him to death he said he acted out of anger and there's no evidence there was evidence after the murders that he attempted to clean himself up and clean the crime scene up when the police arrived he didn't tell them he'd been raped or that he killed either of these people to the contrary he said i don't know what you're talking about uh basically all of that uh they said that he you know he said that he he figured that they had hiv they went on that whole thing like that was going to be a real reason um so the verdict comes after three days of deliberations wow it's like the end of one day a whole day and then half another day that's insane it's a lot but it's it's because of the degrees of murder and stuff like that. It's complicated. So they actually requested further instruction a couple of times. Like, we need to get a little more clarification, which I like that. Yeah. Get it right. Get the get it right. That's what I say. Take an extra day, but get it right.

for the meaning of, quote, the test for deliberation and premeditation is the extent of the reflection, not the length of time. So they were wondering about that. And also they asked for a readback of the coroner's testimony. And, yeah, and they also they come in and they're ready after three days with verdicts here. And it's anywhere from self-defense. You have a good one. We're sorry what happened to you, buddy, to first-degree murder and all that that entails. So they come back and find him guilty, obviously of something, of two counts of first-degree murder.

Holy shit. They didn't believe shit. As the verdict was read, Balassa said, I was only defending was only defending myself no sir it's too late and then placed his hands over his face which will be on the social media post it's a great picture of him at the table his hands over his face really looking he did that and uh there's that so they asked the prosecutor if he was happy he said they were very careful and took their time about the jurors he said they were impressed with how he said he talked to the jurors afterwards and he said they were impressed with how the whole thing ran they thought it was very professional the jurors did so he said that the uh self-defense argument came a little too late said if he would

have said that the second the police took him in if the cops knocked on the door and he said thank god you're here these two guys tried to rape me i just beat him to death he'd had a case at that point possibly you know what i mean i was just trying to call 9-1-1 like phones in my hand but you're here never mind great but instead it doesn't work like that you kind of have to answer the phone or answer the door holding the phone right being like no you guys got here fast holding a code oh my god thank god see that guy? Total rapist. I don't know if he's dead or not, but if he's alive, cuff him because he's a rapist. Yeah.

Also, swab my butthole and you'll find them in there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So he said no. He told so many lies and so many things were inconsistent. Then he goes on to say it was really disgusting, frankly, that he would try to take on the role of a victim in a sexual crime. He had multiple opportunities to say what happened and chose to lie.

He said that although it was all unclear and he doesn't know why he did this exactly, they know that he definitely did it. He said, what we do know is that Joaquin Balasa is responsible for them and that he, to quote the pathologist, finished these two off. My God. Jesus Christ christ don't do that finish them off really he like he said to quote the pathologist like i'm not saying that that's the pathologist bad gay sex pun then he clarifies he murdered them in cold blood and as the jury found that's murder in the first degree so uh a friend of the couple of guy and jose who was at the trial the whole time he said quote guy and jose had a great life and had a joy to the lives of many of their friends uh that's what his quote was so he was

happy they were found that he was found guilty sentencing comes around a lot of sentencing options as well here oh boy but uh what he gets is you sir may fuck off life without parole it's over for him times two wow bang bang yeah two life i mean concurrent but he gets a life without parole for both of them first degree murder for both of them. Wow. Fucked is what he is. Not raped, but fucked. Right. I wish I could call this title, Not Raped, But Fucked. That would be the... But I can't. I don't think Apple Podcasts will let that fly on the platform.

Not raped, but absolutely drilled. Not raped, but ass reamed. I don't think they'll let me put that. So, yeah, he has some appeals here basically his appeals are on the fact that um he said he considered them uh you know them friends and they were raping him and he appealed on factual matters but he also appealed saying that the prosecutor um said that the fact that he the prosecutor put forth that he was a little bit reluctant to give dna and he said that was a good one against his rights and he was saying stuff

like that little things the prosecutor said went against his his uh fifth and sixth amendment rights okay that's what he was saying so um they said his lack of cooperation in the face of a valid warrant is not an invocation of his fourth amendment rights is what the court decided that's just being uncooperative that's not you didn't say um you did not testify pleading the fifth amendment which is what that's for you just were uncooperative so they can bring that up it's not like they're not allowed to say like because the defendant obviously doesn't have to testify if the defendant doesn't testify the prosecutor is not allowed to say, like, because the defendant obviously doesn't have to testify. If the defendant doesn't testify, the prosecutor's not allowed to go, and what's he hiding? Not testifying.

You're not allowed to say that. Because that's their right to not testify. So you can't do that. So anyway, the result is the appeals court noted that he told two starkly contrasting versions of events that could not be reconciled. He's a fucking liar is what they said about Balazs. They said changing his story significantly damaged his credibility and undermined his claim that he had been victimized. The prosecutor was entitled to use and did use Balazs's prior inconsistent statement, including his failure to mention any need for self-defense to the detectives to impeach his credibility as to his self-defense claim at trial and they said that they uh the court upholds his both murder convictions here uh and um they said that what is oh yeah the legal appeal the appellate court judges made note

of the scene they said this quote one of the officers told the other what when the defendant opened the door they saw broken glass and what appeared to be a large amount of blood in the entryway, leading her, the officer, to believe someone inside was either seriously injured or dead because he was trying to say they shouldn't have kept coming back in his house. They should have left him alone. But they are saying, well, they saw blood in the house, so they don't have to leave you alone. Then they also said the appeal also details when the police enters the home, they describe the scene as very bloody. The appeals court goes on to say if Palasa was so concerned about being exposed to HIV, why would he kill his victims in such an intimate way that resulted in so much bloodshed that could have easily exposed him to the virus?

And additionally, according to the appeal, neither of the defendant's victims victims was in fact HIV positive, as the other family found out. What a fascinating thought. Yeah. Why would you spray the AIDS all over? Yeah. Oh, I'm so scared. Bleed on me. And also, I'm going to bleed from hitting you, and then we can mix our blood together.

That would be great also. There is a small win in it, though. The court ruled that one of the special circumstances finding against him must be reversed because it's it's a duplicate thing basically and a parole revocation find of three fine of three hundred dollars must be removed because his prison term does not include the possibility of parole oh that's a win so yeah he gets he doesn't have to pay three hundred dollars that's great so there you go they don't give him 300 bucks. He doesn't have to pay $300. He comes up $300. That's great. So, there you go.

They don't give him $300. He just doesn't have to pay $300 now. Now, there is a petition, by the way, on thepetitionsite.com, which is a knockoffchange.org, I feel like. And I will tell you the amount of support it has at the end of this, okay? And I'll tell you what their goal is and everything, but let me read this to you. This is, um,

let me give you the, who this is. Suzanne M. Nelson was a quote, very close friends slash family member is how she describes herself. She writes the, the pitch for why you should support this petition. Here we go.

Joaquin Miguel Balasa, age 26 at the time of his crime, is currently serving two life sentences without parole in California prison. He was stalked and made a victim himself to a homosexual male married couple much older than himself. The couple first came in touch with Joaquin

while looking at barbecues at the Home Depot where Joaquin had been employed. After successfully selling the couple a barbecue, the two men invited Joaquin to join them for a barbecue and drinks at their home that weekend. Not wanting to be rude, Joaquin said he might think about it and they exchanged phone numbers. Joaquin received the first text message the following day, which he ignored and continued to receive texts throughout the day. By the fourth day, Joaquin finally agreed to see the two men for dinner and drinks at a local restaurant close to Joaquin's apartment. She just compressed six months. Yeah. She put a six-month period of time when there was no trouble, nothing happened.

She acted like they bought the barbecue. This all happened in a week. Yeah, in a week. yeah they bought the barbecue he didn't want to come over next day they she was still they were pestering that's not what happened it was six fucking that's ridiculous anyway um by the fourth day uh joaquin finally agreed to join the men two men for drinks and dinner at a local restaurant close to joaquin's apartment joaquin asked his roommate if he wanted to go and he agreed while having dinner all four men were drinking alcohol to the point where the waitress and other witnesses Yeah, but if you are worried and stalked, you are not going willingly and getting shithoused with two guys that are stalking you. Yeah, you might have a drink and then you go, oh, I got to go. I got my girlfriend girlfriends waiting for me. That's it.

You don't go, yeah, another pitcher. Yeah. Another round of margaritas in pitcher form. Please. So they said, quote, in the parking lot of the restaurant, Joaquin waited with one of the men and his roommate while the other man went to the liquor store, which located in the same shopping center and bought bottles of whiskey and a 30 pack of beer the gay couple suggested they all drive to their home which was about 15 minutes from the restaurant they by the way she left out all the part about the fucking like grab assy shirtless fucking you know nazi youth running games in the fucking back there uh then says uh joaquin suggested they

all go to his apartment since it was less than two minutes away since they all had been drinking it would be safer to drive they all agreed and proceeded to go to joaquin's apartment once there they continued drinking and were quite quote wasted and at one point one of the gay men she keeps you can't say anything about saying one of the gay men, attempted to kiss Joaquin by trying to force his tongue into Joaquin's mouth. Of course, Joaquin was angered and disgusted. As Joaquin is not gay, he is a straight young man. That's a sentence. Joaquin pushes the man away from him and walks to his bedroom and passes out on his bed.

Get away from me, gay dude. I'm tired. Plop. A man got close enough to put his tongue in his mouth. Yeah. That's fascinating. Next, Joaquin is awakened by both of these men holding him down, one man with his penis in Joaquin's rectum,

and the other man holding him down so the other could rape him. Imagine the horror. Imagine that that's real. That would be horrible. Imagine that horror. That's the that would be horrible but it's not here that's the problem yeah if it happened and when it does happen to people horrible right here no joaquin immediately starts fighting to get these men off him in joaquin's past he had trained as an mma cage fighter in which he only had one fight which he lost that being said

joaquin used his skills as a fighter to ultimately get these men off of him, which unfortunately for the rapists ended their lives that night. Joaquin only defended himself against these monsters. There was no gun, no weapons, only his bare hands and his skills that saved his life that night. The police came, observed two dead men. Joaquin was still there. Saved his life that night. The police came, observed two dead men. Joaquin was still there.

He was accused, cuffed, charged, and sentenced and is now serving two life sentences without parole. Now, I ask a few questions to anybody reading this now. They started and ended the sentence with now. Now I ask a few questions to anyone reading this now. Bad. If you were raped, number one, they're numbered by the way number one if you were raped why would you not try anything and everything to get away from your attacker even if it meant killing the rapist oh wouldn't you kill them a question does that mean that every rape should have to end with the rapist dead someone should be dead at the end of it right i guess

would you maybe lie to police and tell them you don't remember what happened because of humiliation shame disgust and public ridicule you work at home depot public ridicule if you it's not like it's fucking lebron killed two guys who tried to rape him this is you you're literally the fucking the the lumber guy at home depot calm down you would be a hero if you murdered two men with your bare hands in your own apartment for no particular reason at all, would you stay in the apartment until police arrived? No, you'd probably stay in the apartment until you could figure it out. Unfortunately, the police showed up before he could. Yeah, and if you're so fucking drunk you can't figure it out, you go, I'm going to sleep for a while and I'll wake up and figure it out.

We've covered a ton of murders where people wake up after they killed somebody. We've covered a ton of murders where people wake up after they killed somebody. Four, after reading Joaquin's story here now, would you do him a favor and show him your support by signing this petition or sending him a card or letter to show him he's not alone in this terrible mess? It's my personal opinion that justice is nonexistent in so many courthouses today. Everybody we count on is in, quote, it for so many other reasons. That's why I have to hope for humans with feelings. And that's not they put an apostrophe where one doesn't belong. No one proofread this. Real hearts and minds that see through all the bullshit going on today in our courtrooms and in our White House with our police officers, sheriff's officers, and so on and so on. Please help.

This is, by the way, like very new. Please help Joaquin if he needs your help. He appreciates your time and concern for his situation. He can only do so much from his prison cell. He has nobody to depend on to give him hope to set him free thank you be safe um this has they're they they're trying to get a thousand people to sign this it has six right i think they're in a lot of trouble and that includes that includes suzanne who wrote it right so five and su Suzanne. If you can get me the address, James, I am going to send him a card to remind him he is alone in this.

You're alone in this, sir. Sir, I just want to tell you you're alone in this. You're an idiot and you're alone in this. I love that so much. So then under Suzanne's name, she has a thing. This case and every single case like it should be important to every single person on this earth what should each of us individually expect if something like this were to

happen in our own lives it's just important we only have one life Suzanne you've been snowed wow by the way I found quickly here at the end of this I found a study this is somebody named W Karsten Anderson.

W.C.? W.C. Old W.C. there. Andresen, sorry. It's a new study. It came out in 2022. And it's a study of gay and trans people being murdered. There's a lot of sociological stuff in it,

but there's a lot of statistics in it as well, and that's what I'm interested in here right this minute. And it's weird that they said the average age of an offender, because this is the average gay men victims year 2000 to 2019. Just any time gay men are victims of a murder. This is what it is. The average age of the victim is 43.91. So 44, basically. This guy was 54.

Average age of the offender, 26. Exactly how old Joaquin was. Exactly. So this is very common, this exact deal. Weapons used, by the way. The options are – well, I'm going to give you the options first. The options are multiple weapons is one, firearm, knife, hands, objects, multiple stabbings, which is five or more stab wounds. And then one is provocation and one is self-defense.

Okay, there's that also. Those are the different defenses. And then one is provocation and one is self-defense. Okay. There's that also. Those are the different defenses. The different defenses are provocation, self-defense. Self-defense, they was used 83% of the time. Is that right? So what was the most used form of murder for that? Multiple stab wounds.

Multiple? It is knife, not multiple, but knife 42.65% of the time. Second most, hands. 35.29. Bare fucking hands. Hands and knives.

Very personal. Very. Very personal. Firearm, 16% of the time. So rare. This is in America. Yeah. There's no other category of murder where a firearms only use 16

percent of the time in fucking america it's just that doesn't exist there's no other there's no other form of murder that knife is north of 40 percent yeah it's it's crazy right so i just i found those statistics i just had a telling and personal gut feeling that it was feeling that it was knives. Yeah, it's weird because it's personal. That's why. I mean, you could feel it. And I didn't even think of hands as an option, even though we just talked about that. And that's second place. Between the two of them, it's 42.65 and 35.

So it's fucking 77% between the two of them are knives or hands. Knives and hands. Think about that. That's wild. That's fucking wild. Both of those are horrible ways to die yeah and the multiple weapons one is that goes with both that's yeah if you punch somebody and then stab them yeah but the firearm only 16 of the time so there you go he's in prison he had another appeal on some

other legal ground in on in 2021 that didn't work out he's still got tons of legal stuff going on because he's got life without so he's going to be going to court. He's going to be going to court quite often for a while now but he is convicted. Now quickly I just want to give everybody the Aqib Tlaib update. It's baffling.

Because somehow we called that complete thing happening. I don't know how. No we didn't but I feel like maybe they were angry at the crime and sports episode and took it out on this guy. I don't know what happened. Allegedly. Did we not say that he's not done with guns? We said he's not done with guns, but we thought maybe he was older and more chilled out of not going. We said it like he's not going to be going to strip clubs anymore we never thought that on a goddamn weekend afternoon

and a fucking before 11 a.m at a youth football game there'd be gunplay he'd get into usually our updates come like a year and a half later or something this comes i mean we're recording it now but the update was necessary like five days after putting the episode out which has never happened before a record especially something this big it's not like oh they got a DUI or they you know did so this is a shooting happens and allegedly

we're saying we're blanketing this whole thing with allegedly because none of it's gone through the court system yet we're only going on what has happened so far and by the time this comes out publicly next week because we'll release it tonight on Wondery Plus by the time it comes out publicly next week it could be a completely different narrative we have no fucking idea but as of right now uh yakub his older brother or his younger brother uh yeah akib's younger brother is 39 he and akib are apparently coaches for a youth football team, the North Dallas United Bobcats.

So you figure, like, you know, if you're, that's kind of cool. It's a youth league and that's an NFL player who's a current NFL analyst. Forget that. He's a Super Bowl winner. He's a Super Bowl champ. He's coaching the kids. You play against them. You think that'd be pretty cool.

And as a coach, you're like, I'm kind of, I'm like, yeah. Talk to this, this is a shop with this guy. It's pretty cool and shit like that. And by the way, Jacob and Aqib are very close. They're the they're the close brothers. Here's a quote from Aqib from back in the day. I think we did this in the episode. My brother would always pick me on his team.

We would play outside and I would play with all the older guys and he would pick me on his team first. He was a big influence on me just playing with an older crowd all the time. So by the time I played with people my age, I was like, I'm used to playing with guys older than you. He played a real big part in my football career. So and continued in my post career coaching. The man just got an enormous contract from Amazon to do live commentary. Like three days before the episode came out. Yes.

Yeah. Just last week. Since we recorded the episode, he got a huge contract and is involved in a shooting. Like, it's fucking bananas. And it's only been a week and a half, two weeks since we've recorded the episode. An enormous couple of weeks. Holy shit. This is fucking crazy, man.

So, yeah, I guess they were coaches on one of the teams. And then there was another coach coached by a guy named Mike Hickman. H-I-C-K-M-O-N is his name. And, yeah, they are, I guess he coaches the Dragons. Yeah, he coaches the Dragons, the D-E-A Dragons. And the Dragons president of the youth football team as a president. Wow. You don't need a president said the dispute began when Hickman went to pick up a football and someone kicked it away from him because the game.

Now the game was over. Now, multiple. Yeah, game was over. Now, what you see in the beginning, there's a video for this. You can't really see the details. But what you see in the beginning,'s a video for this that you can't really see the details but what you see in the beginning and this is what the cameras trained on at first is a one of the other coaches not hickman or either of the talibs one of the other coaches i assume one of hickman's on his side is holding yeah he's holding the football i think the one in question and he keeps jawing at a referee while another referee tries to get in between him and telling him, come on, man, game's over.

Fuck this. He's saying, come on, man, you can't be letting shit like that go. That's disrespectful. So he was saying you can't let the kids disrespect the coaches by letting them kick a ball away like that. And the ref's like, basically, the game's over. What the fuck am I going to do? Give him a 10-yard penalty? Tell him he can't have ice cream with the team after? What the fuck am i gonna do give him a 10-yard penalty not telling me can't have ice

cream with the team after like what the fuck am i supposed to do it's like the ref knew that there were talibs on the field who are storied for having guns story for and we said yeah yeah the weird part is at the end of the episode we did we said that about the well i mean it looks like he's good because he's not going out at night and shit. We never would have thought on a Saturday morning he's going to get in a gunplay. And Aqib, by the way, is not even at this point even partially accused of shooting anybody. His brother is accused of being the man who fired five shots off in this whole thing. But during this whole deal, while this one ref, while this one coach is arguing with the refs, a giant Heathcliff-style fracas breaks out in the background. Absolute bedlam.

Where it's just a giant group of people that's like in a swirl while a cloud of dust is around them with just a foot and an arm popping out every once in a while. There's stars in there, all sorts of shit. And the first down markers, for whatever reason, are being slung at people. They're being slung at people. It's a general melee going on in the middle. And the, a key brothers are a key brother. Tlaib brothers are right in the middle of this whole fucking thing.

Right in the middle. One of the, this is a really news release from the police here. Quote, during the disagreement, the opposing coach staff were involved in a physical altercation. And one of the individuals involved in the altercation, allegedly Jakobub talib discharged

a firearm striking one adult male uh five shots ring out yeah it's and they're fucking it's a deep sound they sound what what fucking i can't wait to hear what caliber that was it sounded like a 38 but it may just been a nine millimeter but. Either way, it sounded like a 40 to me. I'll bet it's a 45. That's what it might have been, dude. It sounded like a fucking, it was boom. That wasn't a crack. That was a fucking boom, man. I mean, like I said, I don't know if the audio on a phone recording, too, is going to change it.

But from what I heard, I was like, that sounded large caliber, man. That sounded fucking, that sounded nasty. Then you see the camera pan to the ground and people because people are fucking running yeah from there you hear like little tiny girl screams like five-year-old girl screams you hear people panic and you hear go i get them off the field i mean it's fucking like you would do if all of like if there's 40 children on a field where gunshots are ringing out you would fucking be like run motherfucker you know we're here it's supposed to be a nice thing for the kids man it's for the kids what are we fucking

doing even crazier james as a as when you're at a as a coach on like a field you're wearing athletic clothing those do not hold weapons like how the fuck did he have that that at the ready just to yank out and start blasting like that? Unbelievable. Packs over the shoulder or some shit down in the- What a story this is. Yeah. One of the president of the team, because they ended up striking and killing this man.

This man died. Hickman is dead. Right. This guy died while coaching a fucking youth football team. He has three children, and he's a grandfather of three. What the fuck? And he's fucking dead over this. It's ridiculous.

It's pointless. The one guy, the president of his team, said, I don't know how to explain it to the kids. That's the part I'm stuck on right now. How do I explain it to them? Why? This is something these kids will remember the rest of their life. Yeah, you just scarredred shitload of kids. Yeah.

Nice job. They said the alt. This is the police department. The altercation became physical, leading to the suspect pulling out a firearm and shooting Mr. Hickman multiple times. After the shooting, the suspect fled the scene in an unidentified vehicle, taking the firearm with him. That's the other thing. He ran.

He fucking ran afterwards um the defense attorney because now he had he turned himself in today uh or yesterday i can't remember and uh he's being charged with murder obviously in the first degree because it seems whatever and they said that his lawyer clark birdsall said that he it will be uh he was going to claim self-defense he says mr talib regrets the tragic loss of life, but turned himself into the law so he could tell his side of the story. Yeah, they said that that was that. His family gave a statement.

Mike Hickman, Cicely Hickman, his wife, said, quote, Mike was an amazing husband, son, father, grandfather, brother, friend, and coach. Our family is grieving. Right now, we don't see an end to our grief. We'll miss him immensely. We always will. We'll love him forever. Yeah.

Heartbreak. Get killed for no— I'm going to coach the team. Okay. Try not to get shot by a fucking NFL player's brother. Oh, no problem. Bye. What?

Allegedly. Yeah. Watch out for the Talibs. Oh, shit. It's that team. Watch out for them Talibs. Oh, my God. So, yeah. They said the—laib. Oh, shit, it's that team. Watch out for them Tlaibs. Oh, my God. So, yeah, they said it's fucking horrible, obviously.

Aqib, though, he said that he's very distraught and devastated over this terrible loss of life and says he would like to convey his condolences to the family of the victim and to everyone who witnessed this unfortunate tragedy. Oh, thank you for that, Aqib. Please don't make me not call football games because i just got a contract i'd like to keep god damn it they need to check if hickman is still wearing his chain because if he isn't uh i got news for you yeah somebody's got yeah somebody didn't uh i think i found the perv yeah oh. Oh, shit. So that's Joaquin.

Michael Crabb, treat him. So that's Joaquin Firebalassa and his murders and his crazy ass shit. What a crazy fucking story. If you like that story or you just like the way we told it, it's more likely probably. Go ahead and tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars. Any and all of them. Fuck it, throw it around.

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Get all your merchandise. Get your tickets to live shows. Yes. Oh, they're all over the place. We're at the Pabst for Small Town Murder in Milwaukee on September the 10th. That almost sold out, actually. It's a huge theater. It's so close.

Almost sold out. If you want your tickets, get them right now because they're not going to be there the night of the show, probably. So do that. And we're also in Tampa and Orlando on September 23rd and 24th. Two shows each those nights, both of those at the Improvs. Get your tickets to those right now and keep doing that. Social media, we are at Crime and Sports on Twitter and Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram.

That said, also Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all the bonus stuff. Tons in the back catalog and you're going to get it all and it's for the low, low price of only $5 or more a month. Whatever you want to do beyond five bucks is up to you.

Less than a cup of coffee, you're going to get four different episodes every month, at least. If it's one of those months with three weekends, you're getting more. So do that or whatever it is,

six weeks weeks six weekends for something so not six sometimes it works out if yeah it's five and we get one in the middle in the end in the beginning exactly sometimes that happens either way every other week two new goddamn episodes is a better way to put it this week what you're going to get and that's small town murders crime and sports everything that we put out this week for crime and sports we're going to talk about some weird sports sex scandals not rapes or so much but like brett farve's dick pic weirdness we're going to talk about that his little freckle pecker flying around the internet we're going to talk about like this uh this a female golfer who allegedly, according to a lawsuit, forced her male caddy to impregnate her or she would fire him. Also, some weird.

Yeah. Yeah. He must have been strapping some weird Gary Payton stuff. Also, some a couple of weird, just some weird sex scandal odds and ends. And then for small town murder, we got crazy stuff. We're going to talk about terrible people. We're going to talk about Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, horrible serial killers. Lake has at least has over 20 bodies to him, at least.

I mean, he's he is fucking horrific. The things he did and they were torturous, too. They weren't videotaping gross things. And it's disgusting. We'll talk about them kind of in their own disgusting words, what they said and a lot of Charles Ng's testimony and denials because it's ridiculous as shit. Get all of that and more. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And in addition, of course, you're going to get a shout out.

And when does that happen? Right fucking now. Jimmy, give me the list of the people who would never, ever, ever kill us in a bathtub and then pretend to sleep while we died. Hit me with them now. This week's executive producers are Joey Pepperoni Nips and Ruben Barbasol Can Rodriguez. They're going to be at a show somewhere soon. I forget where. It doesn't matter.

Nip it up. Yeah. Can't wait to see it, Joey. Georgina Eggington, Yeti Shetty up there in Canada. Kylie McClain. Thank you guys so much. Truly. Thank you. It means the most to us. And also, remember, I just wanted to point out that the gal from Australia that came to see us with Tim.

God damn it. Lucy. Lucy and Tim. Terrific people. Thank you so much. They were fun to meet, Australians. Thanks for seeing us. Yeah, and James made good on getting them drunk.

We did? Yeah, it's always nice good on getting them drunk. We did. It's always nice to make good on it. We did. Other producers this week are Myron Schittstein. Beautiful. James Jordan, Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Corporal Carl Kirshner is on vacation. Good for you.

Beaver Nicole and Baby Kit. Aaron Steigler, happy birthday. Frank the South African Bird Washer. Miranda Schwarzwager. That, that's a tough one. Happy Hour is back home in Marrero, Louisiana. Brian and Sabrina Matvey, happy first anniversary. Hannah Farley, Justine

McNeil at Amy Shark's concert. She showed me who Amy Shark is. She is an Australian singer and she's wonderful. Brian Kennedy, Janice Hill, Sarah Surridge, Kelly Higbee, David Clark. Sent me a Hank Banks rookie card, James. Keep your eye out for that.

Adam Wyatt, Adam Hill, Christine Kaufman, Dave Lefchak. Rather not say, Tammy Corbin, Nelson Martinez, Patricia Velasco, Seth Standby. I don't think that's right. I think that was an autocorrect. There's no way their last name is Standby, right? Standby? Maybe they want to say that. Standby?

Macy Cudd, Ryan Fosna, Sarah Moss Miller, Charlotte Lee, Tiara Hedberg, Jack Frazier, Joshua Clauser, Margaret DeShong, Stephanie Lemming, Kate with no last name, Jackie A., Denise Barton, Sarah Hill, Rope with no last name, Dylan Purdy, maybe of the Purdy paintbrush fortune, Darren Deeks, Shady Grifter, Grace with no last name, Kelly Bell, Laura Lockie, Kim Ramelli, I think, Carrie Smith, Night Nurse Kimberly, Deandra Vitti? Yeah. Sounds delicious. Kayla with no last name. Lauren Brumette. Carrie Stisen. Nope, that's not right. Brandi Renee.

Aisha Lenore. Brenda Husser. Susan Bormans. Shane Fitzgerald. Kiki with no last name. Kara Kinney. Allison with no last name. Amy Larson.

Philip Kenkush. Louise. Nope, that's Lois. Lois Hanslick. Mary Dixon. Kay Elshoff. Dean Bailey. Marlee Langan. Brett. Oh, that's Lois. Lois Hanslick, Mary Dixon, K. Elshoff, Dean Bailey, Marlee Langan, Brett, oh boy, Lindickey, Lindickey.

Oh, don't Lind on it. Lindickey? Yep, Lindickey. Maybe so. Robert Richardson, Thilo B., with no last name, Esther Winklemeyer, Donkey Cronk, Vince McMahon, probably not, George Blake, Abby Payette, Bryn Gorman, Joshua Doering. Got some overalls for you, Jimmy.

Andrew CZ, Charlotte German, Jermaine, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, That's not right. Adele Lemonager, Joey Mosader, Free Bowl of Soup, Jeremy James, Melissa Baldwin, Michelle Robinson, Cheyenne Price, Timothy Aiden, Beth Roth, nope, that's Becky Roth, Claire Beam, Free bowl of soup. Jeremy James. Melissa Baldwin. Michelle Robinson. Cheyenne Price.

Timothy Aiden. Beth Roth. Nope, that's Becky Roth. Claire Beam. Velcro Merkin. Gross. Christy Young. Jillian Whitson.

Dale Nussbaum. Deanna. Diana. Renkin. Ian McGuire. Anthony Turner. Thomas Garcia. Carrie with no last name.

Sarah Thomas. Justin Bringer. Carl Trader. Nick Augustine, Shauna Connelly, Justin Saad, Sam Johnston, LJP, Brett Waller, Dylan Nichols, Essence of Joy, Elizabeth Little, Sean Lease, Blair Duhamel, Carl Rogers, Sammy Kay, Kristen Berman, Tracy Conner, Kelsey Hatfield, Jason Sherlock, Anthony Dentler, Sarah Lyons-Bolon, Brendan DuPoy, Carson Schmidt, Ryan Kowakosz, Kat with no last name. Lana Hartzell. Liz Giles. Justin DeCroix. Christy Brooks. Allison Carlson. Sarah Swantacket.

Ray Williams. Mill Dale. Kim Schaefer. Megan Henry. Melissa with no last name. Jessica Schulmeier. Kim Wilson. KP.

Mary with no last name. Nicole Areta. Katz and Nura Wright. Cook. London Wright. Rife. Jody Stancliffe, Donna Exley, Alyssa Tyler, oh boy, Heather McDarvey, Jessica, nope, that's Felicia, Jordan, Samantha Seavers, Brenda Menke, Scott Hoagland, Bob MacArthur, Avery Shoup, Stephen Walden, Tina Rigel, David Chaplin, Lori Pohl, Sarah Beast, Jenny Soros, Roxanne Cates, Jamie Watson, Ada Reynolds, Carlos with no last name, Maria Duke, Megan Ciafullo, Doug Armistead, Bradley Walter, Midden Goldblood. That's not right.

Cindy Gumbs, Brandon Blum, Kai Ventura, Mikel Ellis, Teresa Bergen, Anna Cape, Shatsy Olsen, Rosanna Farrell, James Smith, Riley Triggs, Tiff Coleman, Maddie Campbell, Rebecca Burton-Tish, Claire Wingert, Elliot Hines. It's falling apart. Shania. Wheels are. Oh, boy. Claire Wingert. Elliot Hines. It's falling apart. Shant Shania. Wheels are falling off, man. Anesta. Stephanie Hernandez.

No fabulation. Wendy Jones. Wyatt Brown. Gregory Ron. Elizabeth Aries. Rachel with no last name. Brandi Janay. Luis Gadiel.

Jose Lorenzo. Oh, my God. Megan Brown. Jessica Wilson. Stephanie with no last name. Deanna Hay God. Megan Brown. Jessica Wilson. Stephanie with no last name. Deanna Hayes. Timu Jarvin. What the fuck was that?

That sounded like a two-star. You said Rin Tin Tin? The fuck did you say? Brian Eichelberger. Mike Jacoby. Allison Wright. Mulan Yanni. Zach Stubblefield.

Alisa Allison. Allison Deutsch, Jeff Gergel, Jessica Bedsall, Steven Vroman, Madeline Barber, Shannon Scherer, Curtis Blystone, Amy Furr, Furman, Jessica Cole, Joseph Tempert, Marquise Ellis, maybe Marcus, Nicholas Pappas, Mark Lapham, Matt Clutchie, Sam Zipric, Josh Ruffin, Yasmin White, Casey Horr-Smith, Tyler Warner, Jen with no last name, Jennifer Daniels, Margaret Tuthill, Jake Scoggin, Manny Sanchez, Maude Griffiths, Molly Knudsen, Softie Spencer, Lily Parmenter, Wes Kramer, Nicole McCra McCafferty. I almost called her Crafterty. Christine Nicholson. I'm really tired. Victor Marshall, Josh LeBlanc,

Josh Dent, Kayla, Kayla Pierce, Bethany Owensby, Megan Smith, Adrian Taylor, Amy Talbot, Jennifer Arwood,

Etta would know last name, Charles Jackson, Jaron Wiley, Victoria Corson, Lisa Marcheson, Elizabeth, Elizabeth, Elizabeth Levine, Robaron Wiley, Victoria Corson, Lisa Marcheson, Lisbeth Levine, Robbie Michalik,

Jake Slomers, Rhodes Laura, probably Laura Rhodes, Joyce Herbert, Dan Jackson, Dawn with no last name, Lisa Witt, Justin Bowen,

Rory, oh boy, Rory? Rory? What? Lefesky? I don't know. Ruh-roh. Ruh-roh.

Martha, Farah, Sean with no last name, Casey Jablonski, Katie Long, Corey with no last name, Sarah, nope, that's Sal, Salamander, Salamanda, Catherine Simmons, Gabby Galentine, Jamie Sess Schlegel, Evan Adair, all of our patrons and everybody that comes to our live shows thank you so much thank you everybody so much from the bottom of our hearts can't thank you enough

you changed our lives we really hope you enjoy the content and the Patreon content especially obviously because you pay for it this is free you don't like it

go fuck yourselves but Patreon you pay for so we want you to like it yeah this you know you're not paying for it. So it kills the time, cocksucker. No, I'm just kidding.

Thank you so much, honestly, for joining us. If you want to follow us on social media individually, very easy to do so. Go to shutupandgivememurder.com. The links are there to all the social media. Or you can just Google Crime and Sports Podcast Host. There's only the two of us. Anybody else is a goddamn imitation. Lying.

That's it. Bastards. Lying. Bastards. Imitate. Never originate. You sons of bitches. That said, thank you so much.

Live from the Crime and Sports studios, we will see you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.