Crime in Sports - #420 - My History Is Violence - "Hurricane" Rubin Carter

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

This week, we start the multi part journey of a man who was played by Denzel Washington in a movie, and had Bob Dylan write a song about him. In part one, we learn the origins of his violent reactions, with beating up a teacher, then a preacher, and being turned in to the police, by his father for other crimes. His anger grows, as spends his time in reform schools & jails, until he finally finds boxing, while hiding from cops, in the Army!!Beat up both a teacher & a preacher, knockout the heavyweight champion of the Army, and always seem to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time... at least according to police with "Hurricane" Rubin Carter!!Check us out, every Tuesday!We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to crime and sports early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. What's the answer? And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head? Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios.

Binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free on Wondery Plus. Hello everybody and welcome back to Crime in Sports. Yay! Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us here on the 419th episode

of Crime and Sports. We are pushing far and wide and we are gonna start a bit of a series today. Again we're gonna do a multi-parter here and this was one that I didn't realize the story was so deep. I had never seen the movie to be honest with you. There's a movie, a song, everything. And I had never seen the movie. And basically what I knew about this man was from brief things, brief news things, and a Bob Dylan song. So, yeah, we'll talk all about it.

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This week, which you're going to get, a lot of fun stuff. For Crime in Sports, we're going to talk about some of the worst teams of all time okay worse seasons most inept teams which is so I love failure it's my favorite subject to talk about it just breeds so much comedy and I love it so that's gonna be fun then for small-town murder we're gonna talk about some of the weirdest points of the whole Lori Vallow Chad Daybell mess. Boy, is there a lot. This is one of the weirdest stories that I've ever heard, literally.

I mean, her insanity with the whole, you know, her made up religious structure and her. And then just took a right turn. Her weirdo open mic'er brother, open mic'er comic brother. The whole thing is so weird, we can't wait to talk about it. And Chad Daybell saying he's shooting raccoons when he's burying comic, brother. The whole thing is so weird. We can't wait to talk about it. And Chad Daybell saying he's shooting raccoons when he's burying children. Disgusting.

We'll talk all about that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will certainly mispronounce your name while wanting desperately to get it correct. So that's how that works. Now let's get into this with some very interesting stuff. This week it is the hurricane Ruben Carter. Oh, yeah. So that's how that works. Now let's get into this with some very interesting stuff.

This week it is the Hurricane Ruben Carter. Oh yeah. Yes, so Ving Rhames played him in a movie, which was a- No, was it Ving Rhames? I think it was Ving Rhames that played Hurricane. No. I'm 90%-

It was fucking Denzel, wasn't it? I think it was Ving Rhames that played Hurricane. Who the fuck did Denzel play? Not Hurricane, I think. think are you sure I'm looking it up right now so let's get this let's get this I thought it was Ving Rhames I could be I was pretty sure it's Denzel it is Denzel I'm totally wrong you're totally right it is him who the fuck did now who the hell did Ving Rhames play Ving Rhames played I'm seeing him in con air I'm seeing him I'm seeing Ving Rhames as a fucking boxer.

It was definitely Denzel. I never saw Hurricane, so that's why I didn't know that. I've never seen this movie. When they win awards and stuff, they put one of the best actors of all time in there. So you're going to get acting out of the movie. It's more of a showcase of him being that person. Like Ali with Will Smith, but this one was so much better because it's a guy, it's Denzel being an actual,

so the storyline doesn't matter as much as how great he is at being somebody else. He's great, okay, Ving Rhames played a boxer in Undisputed. That's when I saw that movie. It's him and Wesley Snipes. That's a way worse movie. It's not, they're like in a prison boxing. But I remembered, see what I mean?

A boxing in a prison. In prison, yeah. Boxing in a prison, so that's where I got my mix up. But I'd never seen the Hurricane, and I've seen this piece of shit, though, rather than the one with the Academy Award actor that's really good and everything. And I'm pretty sure he won awards for that, too.

I think he did. I think he did. So that's how little I've seen the Hurricane movie, basically, but it's Ruben Carter is his name. It makes you very sympathetic because anytime Denzel looks sad, you feel sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Denzel can make anything sympathetic.

He can, because he's a good fucking actor. He's great. And as Chuck Norris once said, he's the best actor in the world because his eyebrows never move. I swear to God. I was reading this book and they had a quote from Jessica. The weirdest thing, I think we talked about it on Small Town Murder, but there was a quote

from Jessica Simpson saying she went to Chuck Norris' acting class when she was a kid and Chuck Norris told her she moved her eyebrows a kid and Chuck Norris told her she moved her eyebrows around too much and scotch taped her eyebrows so they wouldn't go up and down. Stop moving them. And said, you know who the best actor in the world is? And she said, no. And he said, Denzel Washington, do you know why?

And she said, no. And he said, because he never moves his eyebrows. So Jessica Simpson says she's never been able to enjoy a Denzel Washington movie since she was a child because all she's doing is Staring at his eyebrows waiting for them to move so she has no idea what he's doing how he's performing what he's saying Can't follow the movies is he gonna move his eyebrows so everybody now Enjoy never paying attention to another Denzel Washington movie as you watch his eyebrows not move But that's that's good acting, apparently. Perhaps that's Botox, Chuck.

No, no, no, but it's from when he was young, though. Not pre-Botox, because this was in like the early 90s, he said that, so. Yeah? I don't think he had Botox when he was 28, probably. I imagine they were doing it, but who knows? I don't know. He's good at moving his eyes

with keeping his eyebrows straight, which is apparent. I don't think he needs much chemicals. He looks fantastic. No, he's doing great. So our guy though, Ruben the Hurricane Carter, Ruben with an I by the way, with the E. He's born May 6th, 1937. Good Christ, really?

An old guy, yeah, which is, you don't picture him as that because picture him as like a young guy. Because Denzel's so young. Yep, and you picture him as a young guy in like the 70s because that's when the song came out and all that shit. So he's born in Clifton, New Jersey. He's got parents, obviously, people birthed him. His mother's name is Bertha.

She's from Georgia. She's born in Georgia but now lives in New Jersey. Well then anyway, not now. She's born in Georgia but now lives in New Jersey. Well then anyway, not now. She's long dead I'm sure. And then- I hope so. The poor thing would be in subsection. She'd be 110 years old.

I mean, hats off to her if she made it. This Bertha, are you out there? You okay? And then his father's name is Lloyd Carter. And his father, interesting guy, his father. A lot of energy, let's just say. He had plenty of energy to not only pump out seven kids, four girls and three boys, but he worked in a factory

and also had small businesses on the side that he ran, and he beat the shit out of all the kids at once. So that's a lot of action to put in. It's a lot of work. Yeah, he's got a lot of energy, this guy. You gotta wake up at five just to have time. He's like, if I get up at six, there's no time to beat the kids at the end of the day. I'll run out of time. So he gets up at five. I guess he ran an ice delivery business when Ruben was small and I'll have more businesses we'll talk about. Ruben we'll talk

about too. He's going to have some couple of marriages. May Thelma is one marriage. I think Thelma May would be a more... rolls off the tongue a little bit. He's got a dyslexic mother. This poor lady has a dyslexic mother. May Thelma, that's it. You should see her brother though, Joe Bobby, which is a tough one. It's different. And then Lisa Peters he marries too. He's got a couple of kids. he marries too. He's got a couple of kids. No juniors though. He's got a Theodore. Theodore and a Raheem as his kids. Now Ruben is the fourth of seven children. He's born, I guess he's born like we said, but he lives in Del Juana, New Jersey. And his family's pretty middle-class because his dad works his fucking

ass off. He works in a factory, he's got shit on the side. Apparently also it's pretty middle class because his dad works his fucking ass off. He works in a factory, he's got shit on the side. Apparently also it's like a racially mixed neighborhood, because that used to exist in the 30s still. And his father owned a bunch of little small businesses. And his father, in addition to beating the shit out of all the kids, working in a factory, running an ice business and several other small businesses. He's also a deacon in the local Baptist church. He's got all sorts of fucking time, man. So he's raising him in the Northeast a very southern way, it sounds. Yeah, the New Jersey Baptist, which is, we do small town murder stats. You know, religion,

it's usually in the South, Baptist is, you know, 60% of the population, but in the North will be like 1% or 2% or something. Now, Ruben had a speech impediment. Oh, he had a bit of a stammer growing up. And he said, when I stammered, the kids in class laughed. When they snickered, I hit them. That's how that's how Ruben reacted to it. So I mean. Fuck you. Fuck you, pow. Which. Third grade just drilling people.

Will get people to stop doing that shit. That's one thing. It'll certainly make them think twice. Kids are like animals and they learn the closest, they learn the straightest route, you know what I mean? They're not going around, they're going as the bird flies and as the crow flies. So if someone's making fun of you, you can stop them by punching that person. Problem solved. It's pouring water on a fire. You know what I mean? Now

it's out. So he said, they put me in a school for what they called incorrigibles. Bad kid school back then. Corny old ladies. Yeah. And he said that frustrated him even more, pissed him off even more. And yeah, he was definitely not going down the wrong path. He said he was heading up a little gang when he was a kid already. Oh. Being the toughest kid.

He was, the older kids didn't want to tangle with him, because he was such a fucking fierce fighter. And he's not a big guy, he's like five seven when he grows up too, five eight. He's never a big guy, he's a middle weight, he's you know, which is like 160 pounds, so he's not like. Yeah, it may seem like he was a fucking, he's gonna fight Ali.

Well yeah, Denzel's a bigger guy than that. That's why, yeah, Denzel looks a lot more formidable than the actual hurricane but this guy apparently didn't matter because he knew how to fight and he knew how to throw hands and that was what you needed to do in you know the 40s in the early 50s it was all about hands throwing and he says that quote the kindest thing I have to say about my childhood is that I survived it. Wow that's pretty kind. That's something I'm gonna say grace right here for a reason. That's it. Wow. That's pretty kind. That's something. I'm gonna say Grace right here

for a reason. That's it. That's it. He's breathing. He's like nine and he's running a gang. Grace. Oh boy. It's not wonderful. He all sorts of reformatories and bad schools and juvie halls he's gonna encounter as a kid. He said he got into his first fight when he was five years old. That's early. Five with the neighborhood bully. And he said he won the fight, but then he ended up really losing for the day because his father beat the shit out of him for fighting, which is very strange. I got in a fight when I was in kindergarten with the bully, with the kid who picked on people all the time.

And I remember telling my father about it for weeks that this kid was picking on people and he said, punch him in the face. He said, punch him in the mouth. That'll shut him the fuck up. That's what everyone told me. My grandmother told me, punch him in the face. My grandfather told me, knock him in the face. That's what you do.

You got to punch him. So I mean, maybe we came up different, I guess. Make him stop. How do I do that? Did everybody have that? I'm right in the fucking nose will do it. Did everybody have their whole family, women included, telling them to punch people in the face?

Yeah. I don't know if that's a, maybe that's just an Italian thing. I'm not sure. But he said, Rubin said that remembering his first fight, he said that quote, a shiver of fierce pleasure ran through me Beating this kid up after beating the guy up. Yeah, he liked it. He thought that was good Yeah, he like that was like stirring inside of him. Yeah, he said that oddly enough strangely

Beatings from his dad didn't stop him from wanting to fight weird, right? Strange isn't that weird? Yeah, it didn't subdue the rage at all that he had in him. God, you'd think, you know, if you beat the kid up a little bit, he won't want to fight anymore, but no, that's not how it works. And so he just looked at it as, well, if I can take an ass-kicking from my father, that 12-year-old can't do shit to me. Right. It's the way he looked at it and he really he would beat up bullies, anybody making fun of his speech impediment, he would do that. He got expelled from school for fighting with a teacher in elementary school. He took the bigger one. He threw hands with the teacher for quote mistreating him is the way he felt So I mean, he's not afraid of his dad. He's not gonna be afraid of you at this point. He even punched the local preacher

Oh, which got him in trouble as well. So um, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry when he was fighting the teacher It wasn't that he felt the teacher was mistreating him. He thought the teacher mistreated his sister So he went and punched the teacher. Took up for his sister. Went up and said, what do you want a piece of me, motherfucker? Which is hilarious coming from an eight year old. That's really funny. And then he started throwing hands, which I love.

Wow. Ruben ends up going, starting working at age eight. Where? Eight. Eight, which is what? 1945 we're talking. So the war's just ending. At the age of nine, I guess working with him, making him assist him in his small businesses,

at the age of nine, Ruben stole some new clothes and gave them to his brothers and sisters. So he stole his brothers and sisters' clothes. His father saw the new clothes and said, I don't remember buying you fucking kids new clothes. And so he beat the living shit out of Ruben, obviously. And then he did something that I've never heard of. And this is amazing, because we heard of-

Did he return them? Joe Pepitone's dad would beat the shit out of him, break the bike, he just got him, all this. He not only beat Ruben up, he then turned him into the police. Oh, what? What's his, mad fucked up. This is wrong.

You don't turn your kid into the police for that. Jesus Christ, I mean, I guess you're trying to teach him a lesson, but for fuck's sake, you know? My mom caught me stealing, said she was going to call the cops if I didn't take it back to the store, so I just went and threw it away. Yeah, you're just trying to scare him. Yeah, you don't want to go back there and face that music.

No, I'm not going to. Are you kidding me? I'm going to go steal again steal again. Yeah, I don't want them to they're gonna be looking at me from now on Then they're gonna know that that that I steal. Oh man. So they ended up moving to Patterson, New Jersey Oh the Carters which was not a good place then no still not but then it was barely okay now falling apart It was a used to be they used to make textile factories they had there. Oh really? So there was like factory jobs and then all of those disappeared and then it was just burnt out husks of shithole buildings. And Ruben called Patterson a terrible, terrible place, which is about right.

And that led to being in a street gang called the Apaches, which sounds super cool in the 50s. Where the Apaches, you know they had like leather jackets and shit with like a fucking Apache on the back, like an ax or some shit. I don't know if I like that. It sounds like it's- Doesn't make any goddamn sense. Oh, it makes no sense.

A bunch of black kids from Patterson, New Jersey are the Apaches, but it sounds cool. It's not bad, yeah. It sounds pretty, cause in the 50s, nowadays these gangs are like, they're all like numbers and letters and shit. Like those aren't fun. Back then you had to have like a- You think prick doesn't make any fucking sense to me.

No. Back then you had to have like a snappy gang name. That was part of it. Like ooh. The Thunderbirds. The Thunderbirds. The Bandoliers. You know?

You had to have like- Jets, the sharks. Yeah, stuff like that. Shit that looked cool in a jacket. It was like a sports team. You know? We're the have like the sharks. Yeah stuff like that. So shit that looked cool on a jacket It was like a sports team, you know, we're the Apaches and the spiders some some cool shit So he said that that is when he committed his first crime, which was stealing clothes from a store This is the beating he took there. Yeah in an enemy gangs territory, which makes no sense stealing from a store there I don't know why the gang would care about that. Well, because you can't protect your own shit. You're so tough, but we're in your store stealing

shit. Yeah, well, the father turning him in, they didn't just like take him in and go, oh, hey, listen, you're lucky your father took you in here a little bit. They arrested his ass. They arrested him and he received two years probation for petty larceny. Dad, what the fuck? Thanks, now I'm in the system appreciate it. Two years. Two years so now that's the only the problem here too is now any little thing that he

does now he's on probation it's just a big deal it's just gonna roll over and roll over and roll over so and he's not his parents are together they have a stable home there's you know there's food in the house the kids have clothes the kids have things like a lot of our boxer stories we hear like, oh, he didn't he had a dirt floor. You know what I mean? And his mom and dad had to like eat one of his sisters to stay alive. And like that's that's a normal boxing story that we hear that. Yeah. And they got to fight to get out of it. That's the only way to solve this economical hardship on this entire family. That's it. He's just a seriously. It's a different thing from him. He's a middle class kid who's seriously angry inside and that's all there is to it. And his father and him butted heads constantly. Like we said, he would defend one of his brothers or sisters from a bully and then his dad would beat the

Shit out of him rather than saying it is like an enigma because he's like a He's very contradictory and everything. He does you know he's he's Baptist. He's very Baptist So that means fire and brimstone you can beat the shit out of your kids. You got to show him this way, but also You have to be righteous and you have to there's a lot of different things there that are difficult to understand, I would imagine as a child of. It's just fascinating to be a man of God, but It's okay to beat me, but not Beat the shit out of children.

It's very strange here. That's wild. They said, well, why did he steal the clothing if he didn't need it? Because he said he didn't need it. They're not like they didn't have clothes. Their parents bought them school clothes and shit like that. They didn't they were fine So, I mean they are a middle-class family. They're not poor. He said excitement defiance. I Would have returned the stuff if I could if I could without getting if I could without getting caught gladly So he said it's not about having the clothes He just liked the exhilaration of the steel if he could just turn around and and go, ha ha, gotcha, just stole the shit and then leave, he'd have been happy with that.

It's just that he wanted to do it. So that's interesting here. But he said that his father didn't want him to fight at all, never wanted him to fight. He said he kept growing up ashamed of always doing the stammering when he would speak in class because they'd ask him a simple question that he should have a simple answer for and he couldn't get it out.

So he said fighting, quote, was the only way I could strike back with my fists. I learned I could use them when I was only five or so because I was tormented by a speech defect. I used to react even more violently. I know that now. So now he knows that he was angry and all that kind of thing. He was frustrated, yeah.

Yeah. When he's 11 years old, he is sentenced to a juvenile reformatory, which is like a jail basically, for assault. And well, he says, and this is the story, he said an older man tried to sexually assault him. So, he stabbed him. He stabbed the man.

Ruben stabbed the man, which I have no fucking problem with whatsoever. Yeah, don't fucking diddle kids. But the man saying he had no interest in that, this kid just stabbed him out of nowhere. Apparently, yeah. So, he was sent to the Jamesburg home for boys no shit I'm taking the kids word on this one here his story was he said it all started out with that dude near the tubs

and tubs was a swimming hole for in Patterson basically and one summer day he said he resisted the advances of this old man and had to stab him to get away. That's what he said. We don't know what the truth is obviously here, but he does end up in the Jamesburg State Home for Boys. And he said to survive being a state ward, you had to hit before you were hit, before you got, give before you got and stay on top.

It's prison. That's crazy to be a state ward at a child's age. He's 11, he's talking prison rules. He's learning horrible things. You gotta be aggressive, yeah. Totally, he's there for two years. Till he's 13? Two years, and then it's about a month before he's about to be released, and he escaped.

Ruben. Reuben. Reuben. They said, why'd you do that? And he said, I knew I was getting out, but I just wanted to go home. So now. Now. Yeah. So he ends up apparently having more troubles in his youth and dodging cops and dodging

incarceration until he is old enough to at least fake his age to get into the army to avoid all this. Yeah. Yeah. Service life. Can't get to him, me. I'm in the army. Look at me.

Woohoo. Which you think would be the easiest place to find you because you know exactly where you sleep every night. Yeah. There's paperwork on this. Yeah, we know exactly where he is. He's right there. Yeah.

So we know where he is 24 hours a day. Exactly there. So I guess he completed basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, and then he went to West Germany. Wow. Yeah. He said it made him, that helped him learn to speak properly in the army because they actually tried to teach him that. That helped him a lot. He also met a man in the army who helped him convert to Islam, which was another thing that he helped him a lot he also met a man in the army who Helped him convert to Islam which was another thing that he you know gets into a lot later on yeah, and the army made him think I got to stay clean when I get out of here and

You know live a life like this rather than like I was living here. So he did paratrooper training as well here so he did paratrooper training as well. Jumped out of the lanes. He became a paratrooper, yeah. Wow. And he learned to box at the Army's field house while in the Army as well which is in World War II era so many of those boxers came out of the Army and Navy. Is that right? Tons of those guys started boxing in the Army and Navy.

That's kind of like a heyday for boxing too. Oh it was huge, yeah. Oh it was a big deal. When TV first came out Friday night fights were like the biggest thing. They'd have Friday night boxing on TV. It was a huge deal for Madison Square Garden. That was a big, giant deal. Boxing was huge back then.

That was Joe Louis, yeah? Joe Louis and then into Rocky Marciano and then into Muhammad Ali and all that shit. So that's such a great time for boxing. The 40s through the 60s, through the 70s really, were tremendous through the whole Ali era. They were great for boxing. The 40s through the 60s were through the 70s really were tremendous through the whole Ali era you know they were great for boxing that's that was that's the heyday big time. I guess in his first fight he was goaded into it after he'd been drinking which is the way you want to have your first

boxing match. He drunk and it came against the Army's heavyweight champion. Oh no. Which he's a smaller guy, he's a middleweight, obviously. He used borrowed boots and gloves, because he doesn't have any. A real fight. A real fight, yeah, he's doing this. And he knocked out the heavyweight champ. Oh wow.

Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker. I mean, he's, no joke. And he probably has a decent chin on him since he's been taking it from his dad since he was a kid too. Yeah. At that point, he's immediately transferred to a special part of the service for boxers. They're like, oh no, no.

That's all he does. He's actually going to be good. He said, I never had a pair of gloves on before the army. One morning, a buddy and I saw the post-boxing team working out. I always heard this was an easy job, special services and all that. Being on that, he said we were ready to go on maneuvers anyway, so we asked the coach if we could try out. And so he started at light welterweight, which is 139 pounds, ended up moving up to welterweight

and he won 51 of 56 service pouts. Lost five. Lost five. Yeah, and he got 35 knockouts He won the all army and the all European titles and qualified for the 1956 Olympic tryouts But he would have had to reenlist in the army for some reason to do it So he didn't do it hasn't made it hasn't made a dime in boxing probably right? No, no This is all no fuck. No, this is the army. Yeah, you're not getting paid shit for this. Hasn't made a dime, probably already has CTE. That's, yeah, nothing. This is, wow, it's crazy. So then he begins going to classes, including

a Dale Carnegie class, who's the how to win friends and influence people guy. Yeah, which helped him, that also helped him overcome his speech impediment even more. Being a little more personable. Confident and all of that and he changed his name for a little while and then changed it back to Ruben. I don't know what he changed it to, so he changed it back quickly. It was like a quick, I think he was like, oh shit this is in the 50s, people were like what what the fuck are you talking about? What's your name again? And he was like it's Ruben, just it's Ruben Carter. I'm not spelling this for you.

That's the thing, you know people already. You know people that know you, and you can't just show up to them and be like, my name's Tom now. Yeah, I'm not spelling Salama for you every fucking time. It's just, I'm not doing it. Whatever, some name that's not easy. So he is discharged in 1956 from the army as unfit for

service after four court marshals. I wonder what happened. Well four court four different times he had some court marshaling action going on. Jesus. It's yeah he gets a job he gets out of the army gets a job at a paper factory in East Patterson. Ah the dream. Oh Man an East Patterson, New Jersey paper factory my goodness This guy had a an illustrious boxing clock If only there was a job opening at the chicken parts sorting plant I could have got there, but no it's paper He'd been home less than a month when the police

He came across the police as he always does and they looked him up and said, oh, you have a warrant here for when you escaped from James town. Remember that Jamesburg? Remember that when he was 13 can't do that or 15 or whatever the fuck it was. Yeah, I can't do that. So that's still a warrant that's out for him. Oh my God.

He said they picked me up at home at three o'clock in the morning and I was sent to Annadale reformatory for nine months As an adult as an adult. Yeah to a adult reformatory As his after he gets out of there. He gets a job operating an extruder Which is a machine that shapes plastic and metal Shape shit makes it's a factory of making crap shapes plastic and metal. Shapes shit, it's a factory of making crap. Stamping things, yeah. Yeah, then of course he gets in trouble again

while he's doing that, because he was out drinking and acting crazy. So Ruben, yeah, the thing about Ruben is, like I said, I haven't seen the movie at all, but just based on the song and based on the general generalities you pick up, I thought this guy was a boxer, never gotten any trouble,

and then they picked him out of the crowd saying he murdered somebody and they put him away, and he was never even in the neighborhood, didn't know anything, and it's not that at all. It's really not. He's a fucking mess, this guy, an absolute mess, and there's a lot of shady shit with the whole actual murder thing too, so.

Oh, there was actual murder. Oh, there's a lot of shady shit with the whole actual murder thing too so Oh there was actual murder? Oh there's an actual murder involved but he's not it's we'll talk all about that that'll be in like part part whatever so Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Saatchi Cole and I'm Sarah Hagge and we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time,

the impact on victims, and what's left once a facade falls away. We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit filed by Larry King, and no real product to push. He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together

while stealing from them behind their backs. To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Giudice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame. Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now on Wondry+. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't.

A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down-low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. No, it's hysteria.

It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early

and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. He continued to have problems. He and three other boys attacked a man and stole his watch. Which is a mugging, can't do that. Yeah, that's aggressive. He's convicted of robbery and assault. Yeah, this is now he's a predator. He's gone from I'll defend myself if some old guy tries to diddle me. He's gone from that to hey, that's a nice watch. Let's beat the shit out of that guy

and take it, which is going from sympathetic to not sympathetic real fast there. So there's an article in the paper from the Herald News in 1957. Parolees plead guilty to mugging. Two youths pleaded guilty to a series of assault and robbery charges in Passaic County Court yesterday. Both are on parole for other crimes. Jesus Christ. Unbelievable.

Alfred Harris, 20, and Ruben Carter, 20, will be sentenced here. Both are still in jail. They were accused of taking a purse containing $2.60 from Ms. Mary Deary, 37, here, and of Graham Avenue. They were also charged with mugging Roy Harrison, a 30-year-old. Harrison said two men attacked him at Summer Street and Park Avenue and took $10. And then Carter by himself was also charged with assaulting Edward Simon, a 61-year-old man. Wow. The same night where Simon was knocked down but he wasn't robbed. He just beat up an old man. Not an old man, but when you're 20, 61 is an old man.

Three muggings and so far the score is 1260. Yeah. $12.60. Yeah, yeah. $12.60 is their whole. He's got nothing. Well, that's their whole haul. Then after you split it up, then what is it? Every guy's in this for like four bucks.

Great. But this is just what he does now. He's going around knocking people out and trying to take their money. So this isn't good, man, at all. This is a terrible person. Not good. So, by the way, here's an article right under this, which is very funny, because it's so sad.

It says, no one came reads diary of dying woman for a year. Yeah, a friendless woman died alone in a tiny London apartment, leaving a diary with the same entry every day of the last year of her life. It said, no one came. At the end of the day, no one came, no one came, and then she fucking died. So that's very sad. And she stopped writing.

That's crazy. Couldn't do it. So if one person came over, she could have made it another year, I feel like. No one came. So September 1957, here there's another article here, and this is, jails five men for muggings. Yes, ordered jail sentences for five people. There's more people in this group accused of muggings in the city and blasted the criminals. The judge said, quote, I have no patience with muggers. None.

None. They're a menace to society. And he ruled two, you sir, may fuck off one to three year sentences, two of them consecutively. So two to six apparently. For, for, for how, for just For how much? For Ruben. For two of them? For Ruben.

Oh, and he's one of them. Yeah, yeah, that's what Ruben got here. So that is not good. Carter and Harris were, this is from the purse robbery and the 30-year-old and the 61-year-old. So not good at all here. They imposed these sentences and so now he's going gonna go to prison, adult prison. Fun. For up to six years. Yeah, not a reform school, not you know, the brig. This is prison actually. He said in prison he started to read philosophical and psychological works now. He got a whole little

prison library and started reading and he said there's nothing to do in prison except think. You think, think, think, think 24 hours a day and it'll drive you crazy. So I started to read. You come in contact with so many different types there and there are so many conversations. You either fall in with the guys who read cowboy books or the others. I happen to fall in with the philosophical crowd." So he's going to spend more than four years in Raw Way and Trenton State prisons. Jesus.

Till he's finally released in September of 61. First of all, he's already 24 years old and he's only boxed in the army. And if that was fucking years ago, five years ago. That's not going to be. Yeah, that's it. There's nobody that gets started in any sort of career at this age. No, becomes successful at it. Rocky Marciano is the only boxer I can think of.

Rocky Marciano didn't box until he was like 24. That's why he's like not real skilled. He just has the best chin of anyone who's ever existed and punched like a fucking mule. So he'd let you hit him a couple times if he could give you a big old shot. You know, he had no technique or anything. He didn't box until he was in his 20s. That's a confusing ass sport because you're hitting somebody with a giant pillow.

Yeah. Boy, does it hurt. Well, fuck yeah, it hurts. Put some pop on it, man. So in prison, though, he would practice boxing, and he trained and lifted weights. So when he got out of prison, he said, I'm going to be a professional boxer.

I'm in shape. I can do this and so the day after his release from prison in 1961 he has his first professional fight. Really? Yes. He's only 5'8 like we said 5'7 5'8 but he doesn't give a shit he fights his whole career between 155 and 160 which is uh it's kind of short for it, because there's some guys who are taller in that weight class.

You know what I mean? There's a guys like, I mean, much, much later, obviously, but you got your like Diego Corrales, who were like six foot one who were fighting 135 and shit and just jabbing the fuck out of people, keeping them away. So yeah, he's very aggressive and he has power. A lot of early round knockouts, way more than normal for the lower weight classes like this. And the way his style was, once again,

he's not the most skilled combatant on Earth here. He overwhelms you, much like Rocky Marciano would do, and that's when he earns the Hurricane nickname, because it's the way he fights. Ah, flurries. It's the way he fights. He's just a, he's a hurricane of movement and aggression. So his first fight, September 22nd, 1961, he fights Pike Reed, which sounds like an old time boxer's name. Pike, P-I-K-E,

Pike. That's old Pikey Reed there. Pikey is one and O coming into the fight. So he's a new guy too. And this will be his last fight of his career though for Pikey. 1-1 for his career. This is at the Navy Marine Corps Memorial Stadium in Annapolis. And it's a split decision in four rounds. Win for Rubin.

But it retired this guy. Yeah, and some other people on the panel didn't believe he won. Didn't believe he won? No, it's a split decision. This guy must have realized that I don't want to get punched that hard anymore. The other guy.

Yeah. Wrong sport for me. I fought once, and I won. And then I fought this. And it's not near as fun when somebody else is doing well. And this guy never fought before. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing. And he's beating the shit out of me.

And it wasn't even an overwhelming victory. And he still quit. No. It was overwhelming enough for him. It seems to me like if I had to guess, I bet the other guy was more of a boxer and knew how to tie him up and things like that, but he didn't enjoy getting punched real hard when he got hit in the ribs and shit. So October 11th, 1961, so 20 days later, he fights Joey Cooper, who's also 1-0 coming

in. And Joey Cooper, his career doesn't last much longer either. He's 1-2 for his career Second round KO for Ruben here. So now he's 2-0 when he gets his first knockout under his belt Not too bad here October 24th 1961 13 days later He fights Frank Nelson who is 1-0 coming in again, so he's fighting all these 1-0 guys This will be a TKO in the first round for Reuben Right, so he's perfecting his style here. Frank Nelson will retire at 3-3 by the way

Now promoters all build him as they had they need a narrative fighters need narratives You know what I mean? Yeah, the kid from here the guy from this so they need a narrative fighters need narratives you know what I mean the kid from here the guy from this so they need a narrative so their narrative with him was he's a hoodlum turnchamp look at him he's a hoodlum gone good that was their whole thing you know what I mean it's a that's a it's a lie because I mean it's true but it's also a lie because this man's fought 55 times in yeah in the army Let's talk about that too, because if you're not telling the other guy in the ring that, that's dangerous for him.

Yeah, well, I mean, you gotta assume the guy across from you has fought some amateur. Yeah. You know, you never know, guys fight 200 amateur fights beforehand, so same thing, I guess. But he's won almost all of them. Yeah, well, I would hope that their managers would know that and tell them that.

But they're talking about how he becomes a poster boy for the rehabilitation potential of prisons. You know what I mean? He fights October. Of prison. Prison can be next to you, look. Look at that, isn't that neat? Next up, Herschel Teeny Baby Jacobs.

Oh boy. Teeny Baby. He's seven and two coming in 27 20 and two for his career old teeny baby this fight goes all four rounds right and it is a win on points for Ruben against teeny baby which you don't want to lose to teeny baby earlier in your career that'll ruin everything That's the opposite of Harold Minor. Wasn't he Big Baby? Wasn't that what he was? He was, no, he was Baby Jordan, they called him. Oh, who?

They called him Baby Jordan. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're thinking of Big Baby... Yeah, Glenn, is it Glenn Robinson? Right, right. Wasn't somebody right? I don't know. Big Baby.

They called somebody Big Baby, right? Yeah, well, there's so many Bigs in basketball. Big this, Big that, fucking,'t know. Big baby. They called somebody Big Baby, right? Yeah. Well, there's so many bigs in basketball. Big this, big that. Fucking, you know, jeez, the Big Kahuna. I don't even know anymore. I'm not sure. There was somebody that was a big baby. There was.

Glenn Big Baby Wright. Glenn Wright. That's what it is. That's his name. Yeah. That just flowed there. 90s ESPN just popped out of my mouth. And we might be wrong but it sounds right to both of us. Unless it was Glenn Robinson when he was the big dog or

something. He's I think the big dog. Yes he's big dog Robinson. That's what I mean. They're so and there was they were both named Glenn so it was confusing. Yeah. There's big baby and big dog. Big baby. Yeah there was. Because he looked like a big baby. Yeah. Like a six foot ten baby. Yeah, big bald head. January 19th, 1962, I guess he's going to fight Teeny Baby again. Oh really? He's back in the Teeny Baby business. We got a war with Teeny Baby.

That's it. We're going to have a series with Teeny Baby. I'm 4 and 0, and I'm going to take down Teeny Baby. This time it goes all six rounds, the six round fight, and Ruben loses on points. Oh So now he's four and one so he loses to teeny baby. Oh, no, but that's tough February 14th 1962 he fights Tommy settles who's five and eight coming into this fight Okay, five and eight coming into this fight. So think about what the rest of his career is he'll retire at five

17 and 6. My Christ it never went good. Nope, 6 draws and 9 losses after this fight is what he has. That's a fucking mess. This is at the State Garden in Union City and Tommy settles. This is a knockout in the first round for Rubin. He's pissed off about losing the last fight I think still. Next up is two weeks later he fights Felix Santiago who's 3 and 10. Same location, same venue. This is a knockout

in the first round again for Rubin. So now he's doing this here. March 14th, 1962. This is very odd here. Strange story. Ruben Carter, here he is with pigeons. He's got birds? Here's a picture in the paper of Ruben, a small boy and some other guy standing here. Carmen Tadeshi, some guinea, a kid and Ruben here are admiring a pigeon. Yeah, they're holding hands, right? They're holding a pigeon. That's a pigeon, like Ruben spreading out the wings. Oh, everybody's holding it together. They're holding this pigeon. They admire a pigeon, is what it says here.

That thing's alive. Yeah, they said, Tadeshi, who recently turned fight manager when he obtained middleweight Hurricane Ruben Carter, so he's his new manager, raises thoroughbred pigeons in the yard of his Saddlebrook, New Jersey home and has a collection of racers that he values at about $20,000.

Each bird? No, no, no, the collection is $20,000, which is 200 grand in birds today, in today's money. Jesus, how many birds is that? Fuck, I don't know, it's a collection. It's gonna be a thousand birds, right? Well, we know how many birds is that? I fuck I don't know. There's a collection thousand birds Well, we know how many are in like this so that how many how many birds are in a collection? Like we know what a murder is. That's got to be this many We know what a flock is how many in a in a collection? We're not sure shit a dipshit. Yeah an annoyance

He said I raised nothing but champions Is what to dash he says my whole prize my prize is bird named Miss 220, and that's the bird they were holding. She's 16 years old now, but when she was at her peak she won championship races on five successive weekends. She covered about 1500 miles in those races. At one time I could have sold her for $5,000, but I wouldn't sell her now for the world. How does she know where to go? I don't know. Pigeons they have... That's a race.

They do that. They have the pigeons that leave and then come back. People train pigeons to do that. Home, right, homing, right? Yeah, yeah. Like Marlow. But 1,500 miles, how do you send them out? That's over five weekends. Oh. So 300 miles per thing. So that'd be 150 out and 150 back probably per thing.

But still, I don't know how the fuck he said to have heard 150 miles and comes back without forgetting where it's supposed to be doing. Where it's, right. Do you put out a beacon of some sort? I don't know. Its brain is the size of a tic tac. I don't know how the fuck it,

how it can negotiate the complications of that. And every stay at home wife has a fucking a bell of bird seed feeder at her back. You know what I mean? Birds have radar or some shit though. They're weird. They have some weird radar going on. They're strange. Tadeshi says it's fascinating.

He says, my son Johnny, he's nine years old, is learning fast and I'm going to get Ruben Carter interested if it kills me. He's gonna get Ruben into pigeons, man. How do you soup it up to get it to go faster? Jesus, you got a little steroid, a little injection under the wing so nobody sees it. You gotta put it right where the wing connects to the body though so nobody sees the injection mark. Yeah, you can't put it in the feet.

No, it'll get thrown right out of that joint. Next up he fights Jimmy McMillan in March of 1962 who's to win it to win eight coming in Jimmy McMillan. I wonder I'm surprised. He's not Irish Jimmy McMillan because that seems all the guys that they would have been called back then This is a knockout in the third round. So Jimmy's gonna gonna bury his uh, oh my god Do they call him mix because of the M's? Yes. I just got it. You just got that now.

Wow. Wow. You just got that. That is so embarrassing. That half the fucking island has a Mick in their name. That's how they, that's why they call him that. You're thinking, why are you naming yourselves this if everyone's calling you fucking mix don't lean into this shit Why do they call them that was done D's name?

Fucking hilarious That is fucking funny Wow, so he knocks Jimmy McMillan out in the third round, sends him back to the potato famine. There he goes. Back across. Fight the snakes, man. Yeah. Get back there and dig up some peat for a living. There you go. So March 21st, 1962, the Jersey Journal says this about it. There's an article about Ruben. It says the number one attraction at the moment is middleweight hurricane Ruben Carter, whose star has risen at a rapid pace since making his first local appearance in two months ago. Carter, who KO'd Jimmy McMillan in three rounds at the Armory last Friday, has won seven of eight Pro Bouts and five of them have been by knockout. Willie Pepp, the former featherweight champion who referred the Carter

McMillan, who referred the Carter McMillan go, referred it? I don't understand what that means. Do you recommend it? I don't know. You picked it? I don't know. Who referred? They're trying to say refereed. There's not enough ease. It's a fucking typo in the Jersey Journal. Maybe that's why it doesn't exist anymore. Maybe if they worked,

they edited better, it would still be in fucking existence. I'm like, referred? Somebody drinking coffee thought the same thing, man. Yeah, R-E-F-E-R-R-E-D. That's referred. That's referred. That certainly isn't fucking Reid. I'll tell you that much right now.

No, no. That's Reeford maybe. He refurred. Smoked weed and watched. He refurred the Carter McMillan go, calling Rubin one of the most vicious punchers he's seen in the middleweight division in a long time. He said it won't be long before Rubin makes it in the bigger arenas and there's a ready talk that he'll soon fight at Madison Square Garden.

But Carmen Tedeschi, his manager, says, oh, slow down a minute over here. What are we doing? Oh, come on. Take it easy. Take it easy. He said, but we know where we are and we know where we got our start No matter how far Rubin goes in this game. He'll never be too big to come back and fight in the Hudson County I'll never be too big. Yeah, well when the arena isn't big enough to hold the amount of people Right. Yeah

Comes a bit. Oh, yeah people ask us like for small-town murder Why don't you do zanies anymore because it fucking seats 300 people? That's why it's anything What why are we gonna fly there and make a third of the money we can make or half? Not even a fucking eighth of the money. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway hurricane here April 5th 1962 it's hurricane on way is the 1962. It's Hurricane on Way is the title of the article. Ruben Carter sets sights on home in Hudson County, not Valley. I'm used to saying Hudson Valley because that's where I live.

It's a Jersey, right? Yeah. It isn't hurricane season yet, but there's one headed toward Hudson County. Gross. This one is named Carter. Ruben Carter to be specific. Carmen Tadeshi, Carter's manager says, Ruben wants to move to Hudson County. That's his good luck spot. He got his best breaks fighting in Union City and he feels that's where most of his fans are. By the way, I say this because they have a picture of Carmen here.

Carmen 100% talks like that. He looks like one of my uncles, Carmen. He boy. Carmen 100% talks like that. And yeah, he looks like one of my uncles Carmen So he does he loves bread He fucking loves big and his favorite thing. No his favorite thing though You got to mop up the sauce on the plate afterwards my favorite thing in the world. Let me tell you something number one It's watching my fighters win number two. It's eating my Sunday pasta, right? I got sauce on a plate then afterwards because we eat the salad after Yeah, I put the salad with the oil and vinegar on there with the sauce

I eat that salad now. There's oil and vinegar and sauce all mixed together on my plate I take a fucking hunk of bread. I mop it all up in circles It's so fucking good Nice piece of bread he does and by the way if you've never done what I just described Holy fuck do yourself a favor because my god it's really the greatest thing ever So they say Carter a hard-hitting middleweight as a date with New York City's Tommy Tucker at st. Nick's arena Santa Claus has an arena. That nice right say next year a week is there a Saint Nick is there like a like in the Catholic religion that would

be hilarious though then you should have picked a different name for Santa Claus if there's already one yeah St. Barnaby or something just give him a weird unless he's the saint that brings you things you know Maybe he's the saint that fucking brings toys to children. Yeah, Saint Nicholas is a myra. He's the Greek descent, what is it, maritime, he brings things. He does! He brings you shit. Does he bring things?

That's why they named Santa Claus after him then, probably. Oh, he's a wonder worker. Yeah, that makes sense. What the fuck is that? What does that mean? Too Saints Catholic? Sorry is the patron state of sailors merchant archers and repentant repentant thieves Children brew children there you when you hear what the Saints are Saints of it's fucking hilarious Because they'll be like the Saints. It's always like the Saints of education

Prudence, and Cocoa Puffs or some weird shit. There's always like, and children with reading problems. Always like a weird one in there where you're like, what does that mean in there at the end? He's the patron saint and legendary habit of secret gift giving, James. That's where St. Nicholas comes from. And soft cheeses, I believe is it also on

so they can just add anything in there lollipop yeah anything in there so weird all right well that makes sense we just figured out a big thing here uh means nothing to boxing but that's fine I'm glad that we know it now um they say Carter can earn a national tv shot at st. Nick's on May 5th with an impressive victory. Jimmy Collado, who has been promoting fights in Union City's Garden, State Garden, all on the up and up too. I don't want to hear nothing about this. I'm sure of it. Yeah. Listen, hey, Jimmy Collado, none of his fights are on the up and up. I don't want to hear

this bullshit. It's bullshit. Yeah. Every one of my fights, squared, are all square fights. So he said, this could happen. He said, he's starting to move now, talking about Carter. He'll be a main eventer at Madison Square Garden before the year is out, in my opinion, because that's the only thing we have to do. That's just my opinion. You know? I think.

I think. But what do I know, you know what I mean? I don't know shit, yeah. But Carter wants to get another good win in Hudson County before he hits the Garden. He says, I owe my fans here another good show. Then if I'm fortunate enough to hit the garden, they'll have something to cheer about. Carter has been tabbed by former heavyweight champ Willie Pep as one of the hardest hitting

middleweights in the game today. Pep says a lot of fighters hit hard, but when Rubin puts you down, you don't get up. Nice. Carter's best punch is a left hook, but his right is also effective. Rubin says, I'm not sure which is my best punch. It all depends on the location of my opponent's head. Oh.

That's fair. And then also, that same week, there's an article that says that Rubin also wants to be a minister, because why not? You know, what the fuck? They said Carter boxing minus beard but only for a while because he had a beard before that. Patterson's Rubin Carter was a young man with a mission. Rubin you see likes to sport a beard but the state athletic boxing commissioner Joseph J

Walker he be he be clean-faced while pursuing, that they fucked that up too. Jesus, these papers. This is insist? No, that's not what it says, but that's what it should have said. That's what they mean, right? Yeah, they left that word out there.

His chosen occupa- You had to, they could tell you what facial hair you had as a boxer? I mean, the Yankees can tell you what facial hair you had as a baseball player. Because the Yankees pay you. Yeah, yeah, good point, yeah. You have a contract with the Yankees with you don't have a contract with the boxing commission boxing commission they don't tell you what the fuck to do this is an independent

contractor game here right yeah you know you don't have a guaranteed deal or anything the Yankees can say that because they say we're gonna pay you a hundred twelve million dollars over the next six years so you have to do what we say these people have to get circumcised my parents did that to me as a kid we Well, we're going to reattach it. We're going to do it. Sorry. That's the rules. We're going to get to skin grafting because we have foreskins around here. This is a foreskin fucking squad. He said, so Ruben has been beardless for the past six months,

although he manages to get by with a hint on a mustache, not a hint of a mustache, these fucking newspapers, and it appears as if he doesn't lean too heavily on the razor Walker however tempered his decision to make Carter shave the beard off with the promise that the younger could grow the youngster could grow it back and wear it in the ring once he became champion you become champ you can make the rules he just did like bull Durham once you win 20 in the show you can grow mold on your shower shoes and people will call you colorful till then your're scumbags

Oh, yeah, they said hence Carter's mission. He simply won't be satisfied until he's the middleweight champion of the world His manager Carmen Tadeshi also of Patterson does little to discourage his boy. In fact, he believes in it, too. I Guess so. They said he's been such a good fighter. They said a win though in the upcoming fight can unlock the door. That's gonna unlock it all to being on TV, which is a big deal because then people know who you are, they buy tickets and there you go. Far and wide. So they said as long as it's a long way, he doesn't have the fighting experience of a lot of the guys who are in the championship ranks, even in the amateur ranks. But he said, I have my sights set on the highest goal there is a championship. That's the way it has to be. This is my life. Right? This is my life. Damn

it. Won't be fucking told what to do. And he starts singing John Bon Jovi lyrics over and over again. He just wants to live forever. It's not ordinary. It's not ordinary. So he said that he starts his day at 4.30 a.m. and ends around 8 p.m. That's his training that he does. Four to four? Yeah, well, he also works, he has like a job job here.

A day job. Yeah, he has a day job. So he does road work in the morning, he runs, Then he does a pain, you know, day job. Then he rests a little bit, then does some gym work till about eight o'clock. So 4 30 a.m. It's him and to Deshy are doing road work at Garrett Mountain. And that's, yep, that's what they do. Carter, by the way, his day job is working for to Deshy waterproofinging at Tadeshi's waterproofing and building firm. So he's doing like factory work. Yeah, he's out there waterproofing.

He's putting like coatings on buildings and shit like that. Shit like that. And at 7 a.m. Carter, he goes there at 7. He gets off work at 2.30 and relaxes until 4.30. Then from 4.30 to 8, he works out at a Newark gym. He says he does that at least five days a week but it's usually seven days a week and he said Ruben says I guess I was just meant to be a fighter and that's the way it has to be.

It seems like it since that's what you've been doing since you were five here and they said that this routine keeps him in you know know, ready to go basically for fights. But it seems like it'd be even better routine if he wasn't working a day job. Yeah, if you don't have to punch in somewhere, you got more opportunity. Well, because if you fight the middleweight champ of the world, he wasn't at work today. He didn't punch out at four o'clock and then come to a fight. He's been doing nothing but thinking about fighting and boxing and training for fucking weeks now. So they said gunning for the middleweight title by the end of the year

is what Tadeshi says they're going to do. He says, I'm sincere. Ruben and I both feel he's ready for anyone. That's it. Anyone in his weight class, obviously, clearly here. They said though, he's, he's ready to do it. but then once he wins the title, he said he'd like to become a minister. Okay, that's what he says. That's his deal. He says he plans to, he has plenty of examples to follow, including his father, Lloyd, and I guess out of his father Lloyd's siblings, there was 13 children all in his father's

family. Wow. One side? Eight of them became ministers. Oh. And also Ruben's grandfather was a minister. It's kind of the family business. Kind of the family business, yeah. So either way, he thinks he's going to fucking do it, he thinks he's ready to roll. I guess the fight that he lost by the way to Teeny back then, Teeny weighed in at over 170 pounds and Rubin weighed 159 when they fought. And he beat him. Yeah, so the guy had him by a good amount of weight, so that doesn't help any.

So he says, once they start using the bigger gloves, 10 ounce, they can forget me in Jersey. I just as soon work out in the gym. Because they're saying once because back then they were using I believe eight ounce gloves which are so little, so fucking little and then they went to the bigger and bigger gloves. Yeah. So Ruben then he considered two recent ring incidents. One was the death of Benny the kid parade, which we talked about in our Boxers Death Patreon. And the second was Tunny Hunsacker was hospitalized. Speaking of the guy who died, Carter said, I wasn't disturbed by his death. That's nice. I wasn't disturbed by a guy getting killed doing the exact thing I do. That's normal. We all know the risk.

Yeah. He said, this is a rough business. This is a rough business. Others have been hurt and killed before and it will happen again. In a way, it's God's business. What? What a weird fucking way to put that. Okay. Interesting. So April 16th, he fights Johnny Tucker and this is his big chance. If he wins this fight, he's going on to bigger and better things. Johnny Tucker comes in 13 and 2. But he will end his career 13 and 3 because Rubin will knock his ass out in the first round and retire him. Never fight again. Never to fight again. So two weeks later, April 30th, 1962, he fights Walter Daniels who also goes by Mick Daniels sometimes, when he wants to see more Irish, apparently. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence that she left him there.

In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask. Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution,

it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion. And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of this sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Was there a crime committed? As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't. Guilty By Design dives into the wild story of Alexander and Frank, interior designers who in the 80s landed the jackpot of all clients. We went to bed one night and the next morning we woke up as one of the most wanted people

in the United States. What are they guilty of? You can listen to guilty by design exclusively and add free on Wondery plus join Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Eight and five coming in here. That's fucking great. I call them that. That's crazy. I can't believe you never noticed that. So funny. I mean, it's, it's honestly a lazy, it's a lazy nickname. It's so funny.

It's lazy as fuck. I don't know why they're so mad about it. You know what I mean? Are they? Is it, I've seen them get mad about it, right? I've seen people don't call me that or whatever. You know what I mean? I guess, but listen, so-and-so.

That's in your fucking name. What do you want from me? I guess but listen so and so that's in your fucking name What do you want for me? Yeah, if it wasn't in your name, yeah, so he wins this fight TKO in the second round so he's climbing he's nine and one now and he says that he he credits the Jersey Journal for increasing his Status because they've been doing stories on him. He said, I was doing more wishing than punching when I fought in Union City in February. And then he says, though, but then I knocked out Tommy settles in a preliminary fight.

And the next day I was in the journal headlines. After that, all my wishes started to come true. This is one of his last five fights all by knockout. And he says that the Jersey Journal created so much attention for Rubin, this is Tadeshi, he says that we now have a large following in Hudson County and don't think that didn't help us get a main event fight in New York. That's what he's going to do. That's it. They say that Rubin hits as hard or harder than any other middleweight in the world. That's Coloto the

Promoter guy. He said that's the biggest asset, but he's also very quick and strong All he needs is experience and he can go all the way They said there is concerns about his ability to take a punch Because his fights usually end so quick and the opponent usually doesn't get a lot of opportunity to get in good shots on him. But they said in his last fight he was hit hard several times in the first round and managed to shake it off with little effort. So there you go. He is scheduled for one more fight at the St. Nicholas Arena and then he will be his next fight is Madison Square Garden. So is Madison Square Garden. So, ready to go. He fights Sugarboy Nando on mate,

which sounds like an insult. Like an old timey insult. Hey Sugarboy Nando, that sounds like someone's calling you a cocksucker, doesn't it? A lot of times when boy is involved, it doesn't feel good. No, it feels weird, yeah. So this guy's 56, 22 and five coming in.

Not bad. All the experience in the fucking world He's gonna end up 69 44 and 7 so That's not as good This fight goes three rounds and Ruben TKO win here. He gets in the third round over sugar boy. So he melts sugar boy so big article the next day about how great of You know fight it was and how great of a fighter Carter is. Nando said, Carter hits as hard as anybody I've ever fought. And he's fought 100 fights at that point.

So pretty good compliment. June 23rd, 1962, Ernest Buford, he fights 23-11-1 coming in. This is at Madison Square fucking garden. This is at Madison Square, fucking garden. Hell yeah. This is at the old MSG. This is at MSG 2, I believe is what it would be. There's the original MSG, which is fucking old school, you know, a small place.

Same area? Early 1900s generally. Then there's the second MSG, which was kind of, became this big giant deal and all of that. But then in the 60s, they did a redo and they got rid of the bus station or some shit and turned that into Madison Square Garden. That's where it sits now.

So there's that. It's giant. It's right by the bus station, so that makes sense. It's right next, yeah, they just built a new bus. It was the old crumbling bus station, and they, well, Port Authority or whatever the fuck it was. There's not a lot of room for expand down there.

No, there isn't, and there was more room then, but still they had to knock an old thing down to build a new thing. So this fight goes all eight rounds. Wow. All eight rounds, and it is a unanimous decision loss for Rubin. Oh no. Yep, the judges cards were 4-3, 6-2, or I'm sorry, 3-4, 2-6 and 3-5. So he lost all three. Yeah.

July 30th, 1962. He's going to have a rematch they're talking about. Fight him again. He's excited. Yeah. Tadeshi says Rubin has never trained as hard for a fight as he is for this one. He has just been vicious in his workouts. He's sparring with Randy Sandy, a former middleweight contender with a really dumb name. I'd go by Randall. Wouldn't you? Yeah. Yeah.

I wouldn't want people to even think they could call me Randy Sandy. I don't think, I don't think, I might change my last name. Well, it makes me sound like a horny guy named Sandy at that point. Randy Sandy over there with his dick out. So I guess during sparring, he knocked out his partner and opened up a cut in his mouth that required stitches. Poor Randy. Customato Mike Tyson's's guy as we know,

this is well before Tyson was even fucking born, manager of heavyweight champ Floyd Patterson and middleweight Jose Torres observed Carter during his workouts last week and was impressed. He said, the boy is an excellent prospect. He's not a boy. Don't say that. You say that if he's 17. He's like 28 years old and he's been to prison and in the army. He's not a boy. Don't say that. You say that if he's 17. He's like 28 years old and he's been to prison and in the army.

He's not a boy. Right. 28 year old black guy that fights, that's racist. That's yeah. Yeah. He can say that. He, Demato was very not racist, which is funny. That's just how they called everybody back then.

So that's how this is going to go. Next up, rematch against Ernest Buford. Okay. Madison Square Garden, August 4th, 1962 and he TKOs Buford in the second round this time. Knocked down three times before the fight is called. So he batters Buford. He just fucks him up. So now he's 11 and 2 and that loss is erased once you beat that guy.

Nobody cares anymore. October 5th, 1962, he's gonna be in a main event here. They're talking about a 10 round main event on the Jersey City Armory here. He's all excited for it, ready to go here. Says he can do it. He fights Mel Collins, who's 22, 22, 22 wins, 20 losses, two draws.

That's very hard to say. Just as many times it didn't go as way as did. As did. This is at the Armory in Jersey City. TKO and five rounds for Rubin. And Collins was knocked down in the fourth and fifth rounds and they called it off. So 12 and two now for Hurricane.

It's all happening for him, man. Yeah, it's working. October 27th, 1962, Florentino the Ox Fernandez. The Ox. That's Florentino Fernandez. The Ox is like for a big guy. It's a shitload of syllables. It's a lot. Florentino Fernandez is a lot. He's 31 and 5 coming into this fight so he's earned his syllables. That's a lot of wins. This is at Madison Square Garden, and Ruben makes a showing for himself here, knocking him out in the first round.

Wow. So Ruben, that's a big deal. Goes to MSG and does a first round knockout. Sure. And it's, this was his TV debut as well. So he just showed everybody. That just, you do that on TV back then. You know, there's three fucking channels

Everybody saw that you know what I mean everybody and those who didn't heard about it. They all heard about it. Exactly They didn't see it like on TV or anything, but they definitely wasn't streaming But they saw the picture so they the newspaper afterwards says Ruben Carter a cocky newcomer from Patterson, New Jersey Made a sensational television debut Saturday night by knocking out middleweight contender Florentino Fernandez of Cuba in a minute and nine seconds of the first round of a 10-round fight. Wow, he was the fifth ranked middleweight in the world, Fernandez. Not bad. It was a short right to the jaw. Fernandez got up at two and was given the mandatory eight count. Seconds later, Ruben connected with a right left right to the jaw. Fernandez got up at two and was given the mandatory eight count. Seconds later, Rubin connected with a right, left, right

to the jaw that sent Fernandez over the bottom strand of the ropes. He knocked his ass out of the ring. Punching out with a combo. Fernandez landed on his back and sprawled on the apron of the ring. The referee counted to 10, but Florentino couldn't hear a word as he was out cold.

Oh boy. Nowadays they just rush in and fucking pick his a word as he was out cold. Oh boy. Nowadays they just rush in and fucking pick his ass up. He's out cold. We're not gonna, unconscious, we're not gonna bother counting anymore. I'm counting to a man who doesn't even know where he is. Yep, and they said it was about a minute before Fernandez could be revived

and knew where the fuck, knew what was happening and knew he was in a boxing ring. He had no idea what was going on. So yeah, he's really doing, they said, the once iron-jawed Fernandez, it was the third knockout or technical knockout loss this year. So now he lost his jaw here. He's a 26-year-old Cuban refugee living in Miami.

Had his nose broken and it was stopped by Dick Tiger. Okay, that was the last match. All right, so Carter is unranked, by the way, in the middleweight division here. He's hard right now, right? I would hope so. They said he would be an even money bet against the world ranking fighter here. They're talking about he I guess he was given a big round of applause to people liked him. Well, yeah, he knocked a guy out in the first round. Yeah, that's worth the money. Yeah, no shit.

Now he's getting into politics. Oh? Yeah, 1962, November 1st, very, very local politics. He's throwing all his weight behind the election of fourth ward democratic alderman Sam Hughes. Fourth ward, what ward in fucking Louisiana? I think it's in Patterson, New Jersey. They got wards up there?

Yeah, everything's a ward. That's how they break up aldermen and shit like that. It's how they break shit down for like financial districts and shit. They spend this money here, that type of thing here. So he said, the hurricane says, Hughes has demonstrated ability and capability as alderman in a few short months in office and all my friends in my home ward will make it a hurricane for

Hughes on election day. They got him out there doing fucking slogans and shit. So November 2nd 1962 all of a sudden now with only 15 fights under his belt he is now in the rankings now he's ranked. So he's boxer of the month, they called him. And apparently he is. They're saying he doesn't say where he is on the rankings. I'm trying to find it here, but either way he's on the rankings now. It's only 10. If the other guy was third and he just beat him, wouldn't that put you second?

No, because that doesn't mean that you're better than the other guy that was third, because you beat the third guy. That would drop the third guy down and maybe put you where he was, possibly. Oh, got it, yeah. You know what I mean? So November 2nd, 1962, here,

Paul Pender is offered a $50,000 guaranteed contract to defend his share of the world middleweight title against Ruben Carter. This is Carmen Tadeshi makes the offer here and then publicizes it to calling the guy a pussy if he doesn't do it basically. So yeah, that's what they're saying here. He's recognized as champion by New York Pender, New York, Massachusetts and Europe. And Dick Tiger of Nigeria, Dick Tiger? Dick Tiger of Nigeria. Do you think that's his real name? Dick Tiger? Oh, I hope it's not Tiger Dick. That'd be striped. He holds the WBA middleweight title. December 22nd, 1962 here. There's stuff comes out about

him now like there's people are digging into his background, like, what makes a Ruben Carter tick, you know? Yeah, how do you, where'd you get here? Now he's kind of nationally famous, so now there's coming out that he had a hard life. They said, quote, hate, viciousness, and retribution have been his undoing in the streets. Violence in the ring has been his salvation.

Fighting means independence, says Carter. It's given me the chance to get myself together and be just what I want to be, just another man in society. The things I did in the past are erased. At least people don't think about them as much. I don't consider myself a violent person if I'm not provoked. Okay. Or the bow rings. Yeah, they said that, he said, each and every chance I got I stole, meaning when he was a kid. I can't remember how many times, there were so many of them, but the next time I got into trouble I went to jail. And yeah, he said the drunken fellow was an older man, he went for one of the kids, this is about an incident when he

was the stabbing incident, then he went for me. I hit him on the head with a bottle. I had a knife in my pocket and I stabbed him with the knife. And they said, how bad was the man hurt? This is an interview. And Rubin said, to tell you the truth, I never found out. He didn't come to court. I never was much interested at the time how badly he was hurt. He said, that put me in the reformatory. I was supposed to stay until I got good and then they let me come home, but I escaped when I was 17. You couldn't have had much more time to serve by then. They said, why didn't you wait rather than break out? And he said, I resented authority. I didn't care about anyone or anything. I was treated like dirt. And that's when he joined the army. He said, when I came out of the service, I got a job. I was treated like dirt. And that's when he joined the army. He said, when I came out of the service, I got a job.

I was working in a factory as a foreman. I would have been all right, but when they picked me up, I lost everything. I had an anonymity in my, or I had animosity, this fucking newspaper, in my heart for everybody. I hated everybody. He said, I just wanted to hurt people. I just wanted to walk up the street and belt anybody I saw.

So that's how he said, my history has been violence. My history is violence. That's a great. It's not bad. That's a good fucking, wow. That sounds like an album title. Yeah. That's good. Guns N' Roses.

Yeah. History of violence. History of violence. But I respect everyone. I demand respect in return. I don't want anybody to use me or abuse me. Fair. So he's doing boxing, which is the most used and abused athletes on the face of the earth.

Exactly. He's like pimping himself out to promoters. But the history, yeah, I guess you but you don't fight old men and I don't know He's trying to justify what he does, but some of his shit there were actual victims man Yeah, he beat up all people and stole their watches and she's stabbing a diddler is one thing Yeah, don't care about that 60 from an old lady ain't justified, man. That's great. It seems 30, yeah, just some lady stealing a purse, just purse snatching.

That's fucking scumbag crackhead shit. Anyway, right under that in the newspaper is an attempt at 1962 humor, which is you're not going to get much better comedy than out of a 1962 newspaper. What do they got? Well let's see. Florian J. Heiser, it's a bunch of little anecdotes. Florian J. Heiser of Cedar Lake, Indiana, won first prize in a 25 Words or Less contest on the topic of how I want my wife to dress for a party.

What, what'd he write? He should have won with, the fuck do I care? Should have been. That should have been his ads. do I care. Should have been, that should have been his ad. One word, quickly. Oh boy, real knee slapper. Then it goes on. Is that what he wrote? That was it, that's the anecdote. Quickly? That's the comedic anecdote, that's the whole thing. He won a whole contest with

quickly a husband in Pasadena, California who turned an emergency who turned in an emergency police call breathlessly asked for directions to St. Luke's Hospital explaining my wife's expecting a baby next week and I want to make a dry run. That's a joke. That's comedy. He wanted the roads cleared. Is that what you know? No, he wanted to practice Mm-hmm. So he was just that's why he was speeding because he was practicing going fast So a cop pulled him over and he said my wife's gonna have a baby next week. I'm just practicing Yeah, and that that's that's a joke great joke So good it needed to be explained a lot.

Mrs. J. Drone's neck of Norwood, Manchester, Norwood something, oh Manitoba, Canada, reports that a neighbor whose wife was away on vacation hung his weekly wash on the clothesline and turned a garden hose on it. That's how he did his laundry. That's how he washes because she's not there. He doesn't know how it's done.

Oh my God. I pine for the days of quickly. Fuck me. Quickly, yeah. What happened to quickly? At least it was fucking brief. At least I got it. A Long Beach, California man sentenced to five days in jail for damaging telephone equipment explained to the court that he cut the phone because he was, quote, sick and tired of hearing

my wife talk to her mother all day. That's a joke. Okay. Hardy har. Yeah. Those ladies talk to their moms a lot. Women be talking. Women be talking.

And then finally, a small car driving through downtown Copenhagen with a large dent in a fender had this sign and big letters above it that reading quote It was my wife who did it It's such a fun just a misogyny break we just took there that's great looking hilarious That's great. Fucking hilarious. So yeah, they're talking about all these articles. There's tons of these articles about Rubin, about how he's skyrocketing up the ranks

and just, oh my goodness, Jesus Christ, he's the next best thing ever. Next up, he fights what sounds like an English school marm. He fights a man named Holly Mims, H-O-L-L-Y-M-I-M-S, Holly Mims, which sounds like definitely she teaches the fourth grade in a rural English school, you know what I mean? The kids sit out on the lawn and look at tulips and read poetry and shit. Holly Mims, 59 and 23, Holly Mims is coming into this fight. She's tough, shit. She's a tough broad here. This is at Madison this fight. She's tough, shit. She's a tough broad here.

This is at Madison Square Garden. Holly's not done too. She'll win 68 fights before her career is through. This goes all 10 rounds, but Ruben wins a unanimous decision here. Okay, good, good. Ruben was knocked down in round four, actually. The first time I know of he's been knocked down, and he gets up on the count of four, though. So he's 14 and two, and now the Miami News,

now we're getting to Miami, the newspaper. Ex-convict Ruben Carter has makings of a champion. They're really leaning into it, aren't they? Oh, yeah. Yeah, now they're talking about, he has taste in reading material ranging from comic books to philosophical works. But there's pretty much one school of thought on his fistic future, which sounds like something's

wrong with your butthole. Fistic. Fistic. He has a good chance of becoming middleweight champion. Yeah, there you go. Carter took time from his routine at Ella, what is this? Asians training camp the other day to discuss his past five years in reformatories and almost five more in state prison. His present, his future, they're talking about the ministry again, and they said they're

likening him a lot to Sonny Liston, a hard hitter who's been to prison. And he says, I like those comparisons. Yeah. That's a bad guy. Yeah. It's good. We got three episodes out of him too. I'm glad they rate me with somebody as high as that because back then Liston was a bad

motherfucker. So they talk about him growing up and Patterson and he says he likes to relax before a fight with comic books. Really? Yeah. He said, I've got a whole drawer full over there. I go to both extremes. to relax before a fight with comic books. Really? Yeah. He said, I've got a whole drawer full over there. I go to both extremes.

I'm currently reading Introduction to the Philosophy of St. Thomas Aquinas and also Aquaman. A little bit of Archie. Yeah. It's both. He says that, you know, he said, I've been, also they said, what about your looks and all that? And he said, I've been shaving my head for the last five years. I like no hair. If it wasn't so cold up here,

I had to have my head shaved now. He was growing it in a little bit here. He says that he's been taking religious instruction from the Reverend C.L. Walker of Pasaic, his minister. And he says, I won't fight forever. I would like to study for the ministry, but I've got to get a lot of things cleared up in my mind first. All this violence, I won't fight forever. I would like to study for the ministry, but I've got to get a lot of things cleared up in my mind first. All this violence I want to just fucking... Yeah. What I want to inflict on others.

Yeah. Just put out into the world here. So yeah, they go on to plot of Ruben Carter's novel beginning to form as this next article. Oh, he's going to write a book. No, they're talking about the novel that is his life because it's so crazy. This is the first line of this, quote, "'Reuben Carter is not a handsome fella.'"

Well, gee, thanks a lot. Well, you got Denzel to play him good work. Jesus Christ, handsome now, motherfucker. When you say Reuben Carter, most people picture Denzel in their head or Ving Rhames, both of which are handsome guys. You know what I mean? So not bad looking fellas.

Yeah. You said they're in fact, you might even say he is ugly and almost distasteful to look at. He's not ugly. I've looked at the guy. He's not an ugly man. He's fine. It's tasteful to look at.

There's not a hair on his cleanly shaven head, but there's plenty on his face, which is hidden by a beard and an unstable mustache an unstable mustache It could go at any could go at any time could all fall out For 24 years Ruben Carter rambled through the skid row shambles of this world. No, he was middle-class. That's another With only hate and violence on his mind most of the time 10 years In fact was spent in prison, paying for a society for acts against it.

Now Carter no longer walks the bloody sidewalks of the skid row. He'd, what? What? Wow, that is some newspaper talk there. Every time he was down there, it was one of his Robin folks. Yeah, he seemed to be wanting to be there. He holds his head high, and occasionally,

you might find a smile breaking through that black of his beard Ruben Carter you see is a man who has found a place for himself a place where he can give respect But expect and receive just as much Ruben hurricane hurricane Carter is a boxer and Then he says that he respects they give the same quote of my history has been one of complete violence and all that shit that he respects. They give the same quote of, my history's been one of complete violence and all that shit.

They said the inside people of boxing believe that Ruben Carter has a tremendous future in the fight game. They're talking about he's gonna be a champ someday. Carter hopes that the public will forget the things of the past, but he's asking too much. The things are a race now as far as I'm concerned.

That's the quote they give before. Ruben Carter never received a formal education. No, he was in reform schools from a very young age here. Coming from the dark alley, the sun causes him to squint his eyes and people saying mister to him and reporters asking him questions are things to which he's slowly becoming accustomed. And there is more of that green folding stuff coming in. He dresses better now and orders a cocktail before his meals. Quote, I found a place in society. Wow.

They say the greatest novels of all time are not those conceived fictionally in the minds of writers, but the lives of men lived each day. The plot has began to take form in the novel of Ruben Hurricane Carter. Indication now is that the final chapter will be one that will warm your heart. Wow, they didn't have any. Boy, did they swing and miss. Talk about not pressing it. Holy shit.

One that will make you, Denzel will make you cry, is what they should say. Warm your heart because Carter believes, quote, I've gained independence in fighting. It's given me a chance to get myself together and be what I want to be, just another man in society." So they didn't interview him for this article. They just used his other quotes and then editorialized on it. And then just made a whole story about it. Fuck. They say, but life has a strange, cruel way of twisting a novel by introducing strange,

shady characters who would bring the sun from the sky for a fast buck. And the stage on which Ruben Carter is performing isn't one that is easy to gain a receptive audience. That stage on which he holds on which holds the future of boxing has seen so many novels end with the star fading back into the alleys of Skid Row. Oh my god, the Skid Row, the bloody sidewalk. January 28th 1962 they're talking about an upcoming TV fight with him. He's ready to go here. There we go. This is against Gomeo Brennan. Okay. G-O-M-E-O Brennan. So he is like Argentinian and Irish. That's a strange mix there. Is it not Mick Brennan? What? Does not what? Not

make Brennan? Is it just Brennan or is it McBrennan? It's not McBrennan. I'm sorry. I thought you said, does that not make, I thought you said, does that not make Brennan? I was like, make Brennan. How do you make breath? I was like, is that like a, like an Irish stew or something? A Brennan that I don't know about. Um, so he's 52, seven and five coming into this fight. That's a bad motherfucker no matter what he is. So he's 52, 7 and 5 coming into this fight. That's a bad motherfucker no matter what he is. So Madison Square Garden this fight is and he'll win 84 fights in his career by the way. Golly!

84, 21 and 7. This fight goes all 10 rounds and it is a unanimous decision win for Rubin. How about it? And he won it 9-1, 7-3, 8 3 8 1 so he beat the shit out of this guy. What is he 10 and 0 now? Right now he is 15 and 2. 15 and 2 and he fought 60 fights in the army, 55 whatever? Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot but most of these guys these amateurs fight hundreds of amateur fights so it's kind of normal. He's already at 70 fights at least. Yeah the thing with him is his age he's just getting up there. But they say most of the excitement in the cat and mouse bout was provided by the ultra cautious Brennan in the ninth round.

A backpedaling, side stepping, safety first fighter all night. He nailed Carter midway in the round with a right to the jaw that sent the fierce looking favorite staggering and dazed into the ropes. It took Brennan about a second to realize what he had done. Then he tore in and flailed away with both hands, but he couldn't get in another real solid blow and Carter snapped out of his daze." And they said, that was this guy's last chance. And that was that. So March 30th, 1963, they say that Ruben Carter doesn't scare him anymore. That's the quote here. Really? Yes. They say he still looks as fierce as ever with his shaven head, drooping mustache and

bulging muscles, but Ruben Hurricane Carter doesn't scare the middle weights anymore. Jose Gonzalez, a 23-year-old Puerto Rican, says, I think I can take him and I maybe knock him out. That's what he says. So that'll be on ABC TV for Madison Square Garden. They said Carter has built up a terrific knockout record and his boast that he could flatten any of the middleweights caused some of the other 160 pounders to shy away from him but no more since his last two fights with Holly Mims and and since his last two fights with Holly Mims and and Giammo Brennan because he beat them both on decisions and didn't knock him out. So what Tyson beat a couple people by decisions doesn't mean you shouldn't be afraid of his fucking

hands in 1987. He beat Bonecrusher Smith by decision he beat Blood Green by decision Larry Holmes. Yeah the one I the one I loved the most is that tall guy that he just obliterated with body blows and then Crumple them? Yeah, and then the guy got back up for I don't know what reason and then he almost exploded his all ahead You don't know why those guys are getting back up. I Would never so next up Jose Gonzalez Who's 23 and 7 coming in so okay, you've lost seven fights and you're talking shit. That's kind of interesting. But it's at Madison Square Garden.

And this fight is stopped because of a deep cut over Hurricane's right eye. Oh, no. A deep cut which makes it a TKO loss for him, even though it stopped due to the cut. Is he a bleeder? Not till now, apparently. He's got a real deep cut, probably a headbutt

I would assume or an elbow. You only get deep cuts in boxing from head, butts and elbows. Gloves aren't sharp. There's no bone in there so it's harder to open up a forehead. You can get a gash and then it keeps getting hit over and over and over again. That'll do it. Those deep cuts though are usually, they're just usually, the headbutts are, especially over the eye, those are usually headbutts or,, the head butts are, especially over the eye, those are usually head butts are, to get punched flush and bleed from over your eye is just not normal. Not easy, yeah.

With a glove on. So anyway, he loses this fight, six rounds, TKO, and April 1st, 1963, the, Jesus Christ, this is an interesting headline, Gonzales whips Ruben Carter. Let's not do that. Oh, don't say that. And Customato calls him a boy. This isn't good. So they say that Jose Gonzalez was brilliant when he scored a TKO over Carter. Gonzalez, a windmill type fighter, cut Carter over the right eye with a hard smash in the second round. They say it was a punch.

And blood continuously streamed from Hurricane's eye until the doctor, who was the ring physician, ordered the referee to stop the fight. Okay. Yeah. Apparently, Gonzalez, considered a powder puff puncher, was behind on points when it was halted. He just got one lucky shot and it made him bleed. Otherwise he was gonna win.

I guess that does a lot for being called a... Powder puff? Yeah, if you just opened a man's fucking face. Yeah, they said I guess he was still getting the shit beaten out of him by Hurricane. They said the Puerto Rican had just been staggered by a left hook to the head in the second round when he stormed back with a flurry of his own to the bloody hurricane.

So there you go. The doctor had made four trips to Carter's Corner before he decided that to call it. So there you go. Next up here, May 25th, 1963, maybe the longest nickname of ever of all time. 1963, maybe the longest nickname of ever, of all time. George Benton, his nickname is George the Mayor of North Philadelphia Benton. Just North Philadelphia. He is 48 and 7 coming into this fight, so he's no joke. This is Madison Square Garden, it goes all 10 rounds again and this fight, split decision win for Hurricane. Hurricane great so now he's doing something there He's also doing other things in his life. He's doing things they say the muscular Mandarin mustachioed middleweight What is that? You know like a Chinese? Oh? That yeah, Mandarin

Wow shy the muscular must Mandarin mustachioed middle weight. Very orange chicken on this guy's face. Wow, he's just full of beef and broccoli. Old chow mein face. Pork fried rice face over here. So he'll be recognized as a leading contender if he's successful in this one fight here. So Carter, they said, is currently relaxing from the Ring Wars, but is busy getting his apartment

in Clifton into shape so he and Theodora Bosket of Pasaic, his bride-to-be, can move in after their wedding on June 15th and their honeymoon to Bermuda. So he's apparently planning on getting married here. The manager, though, says there's a chance that Rubin may have to cut his honeymoon short. I've been told that Fullmer may not go through with that bout. In that event, Rubin would cut short his honeymoon. He would be ready to take Fullmer's place against Tiger.

Tiger's the guy, the other middleweight champion. So they say three stars from this section will be among the top entries in this. Okay. So, 1963, he marries Mae Thelma Baskett. Yeah, not Thelma Mae. Mae Thelma Baskett, and then has a daughter named Theodora. Oh. After that.

So, the marriage is dissolved and he marries Lisa Peters, who then they get separated too. Okay. So, The Ring Magazine first listed him as one of the top 10 middleweight contenders in July of 1963. So he's legit here and he's also got problems. July 27th, 1963, Fighter Carter faces five charges. What are they? He's arrested shortly after 1 p.m. by police lieutenant Aurelia Rega for contempt of court. Rega had chased Carter on July 5th and forced him to the curb at Madison and Getty Avenues. He gave Carter a summons to court for speeding and Carter was to have appeared before

the magistrate. Rega saw Carter on the street yesterday and took him to police headquarters where he was booked on contempt charges. He posted $30 bail and is scheduled for a hearing. He'll also be tried on three previous motor vehicle summonses that he did not answer. Oh, he's a terrible driver. He's a terrible driver, just doesn't go to court for shit, doesn't do it. So they say August 27th, 1963, Ruben Carter may seek triple win. They say here, here in America's oldest fight camp, ancient Charlie Goldman, ancient Charlie Goldman is training Ruben Hurricane Carter, whom Charlie picks to do the Fitzsimmons

triple. The great Bob Fitzsimmons won the world middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight crowns, not in that order. Goldman has said that he's going to do the same thing. I don't know how he's going to be a heavyweight from 160, but good luck from that shit. This Goldman has already trained five world title holders, Rocky Marciano, Al McCoy, Marty Servo, Lou Ambers, and Joey Archibald, and the biscuit-faced little man,

what does that even mean? I don't even know. What does biscuit-faced mean? Wow, the little man, veteran and participant of nearly 400 old-time bouts said, quote, I'm positive that Carter will be at least my sixth champion and quite likely my seventh and eighth Wow, okay

Interesting. That's so he's got a new manager apparently here and his manager is a biscuit face He's a big a biscuit faced old man. Yeah, okay. I guess so remarkably the well-built Ruben With the shaven head and drooping black pirate's mustache. So is he Chinese or a pirate? Take your fucking pick already. Which one? Charlie Chan or Johnny Depp?

Which one are we talking about here? But it's kind of like a Virgil Earp mustache is what it is. It's a fucking, yeah, but it's known as a Fu Manchu, which I get with their, yeah, that's the whole thing. It's a lot of hair for what it is. Yeah, it's a big old thick fucking, you know, it's an old West stash's a lot of hair for what it is. Yeah, it's a big ol' thick fuckin', you know, it's an old West-stache kind of deal. Big bendy caterpillar. Yeah, here. So they talk about that and so he wants to fight with Dick Tiger, obviously. Clearly.

Now the manager, manager Carmen Tedeschi, wealthy 41-year-old building contractor of Saddlebrook, New Jersey. A daily visitor here at Camp explained, I'm offering Tiger a guarantee of $75,000 to defend against Rubin. And in spite of all the big talk some others are making, I don't know any place else where Tiger can get $75,000 in money, not words. No one wants to see this bum fight. If he wants $75,000, he'll come to my fucking place and do it.

He predicts that he's going to beat this next guy Rubin does. He's making predictions and he's fucking, he's getting cocky. Yeah. Goldman says that Rubin's in the best shape of his career. That's the biscuit faced man, his trainer. He said he's hitting harder now than ever. He said, and I feel he's nearing the peak of his career. Let's not hope. Let's hope not.

He's not there yet. He said he has the power of list in the speed of Joffrey and the brains of Ray Robinson. He'll be champion just as soon as Tiger consents to step into the ring with him. So they are cocky, cocky, cocky. No kidding. His next fight though is against, it's on September 14th, 63, Fareed Turkido Saleem. This is a 38 and 4 fighter, so a very good fighter. Civic Arena, Pittsburgh, unanimous decision again, win for Rubin.

But yeah, no more knockouts like he was getting against some of the tomato can guys. They talk about what a great fight he had and how great he is. Okay, October 25th, 1963. He is favored by two to one. In his next fight against Joey Archer, a whip jabber they call him. Jabber. He's a jabber.

That's all. The fight won't be telecast because the time has been preempted for a special show on the ABC network since the colorful Carter, Patterson, New Jersey, and Archer, New Yorker, re-rated, what does that say? Re-rated pretty good box office attractions. Re-rated? The fuck does that say? Re-rated pretty good box office attractions. Re-rated? The fuck does that mean? Don't look at me. The Garden decided to experiment again with the magic lantern, without the magic lantern.

The last time the Garden went without TV, it had a magnetic, caches clay as the prime lure. Against- You get people in there for sure. Heavyweight contender, Doug Jones, it sold out the big arena, attracting 18, you get people in there for sure. Heavyweight contender Doug Jones, it sold out the big arena attracting 18,732 people who paid $104,943 to see. Interesting. So the garden will settle for $40,000 this time with the fighters guaranteed $7,500 each.

$7,500 each. Yeah, win or lose, everybody gets the same pay? Everybody gets that and then the winner gets more but they're each guaranteed a base of 75. You've got to be able to pay your training fees and shit. So they said Carter is the number one ranked middleweight contender in the world based on his 17 and 10 3 record. Here, Carter tries to frighten his opponents with his appearance as well as his punch. He has a shaved head and sports a lush drooping mustache Jesus he predicted he's gonna knock Archer out within five rounds

Alright interesting. Let's see how he does here What do you say? I guess he's number six Archer is rated. He's 45 and four coming in Or he's 45 and four career. He's 36 and one coming in, Archer. Oh, he's very good. Madison Square Garden goes all 10 rounds, split decision loss for Carter. Oh no. This fight's as close to even as you're gonna get.

The refs scored it four, five, five, four, four, six. So he won one of them and lost close on the others. It was a very close fight obviously. They call it a big upset though. He was favored two to one and they called Joey Archer the handsome pride of the Bronx. He's very handsome. Next up December 20th, 63 he fights Emile Griffith who's famous fighter 38 and 4 Griffith is and this is at the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh he wins by TKO Rubin does with a first round knockout of a Mill Griffith and Emile Griffith you

think out 38 and 4 maybe he's at the end of his career he goes on to be 85 24 and 2 nowhere near the end of his career. So 18 and 4 for Rubin. So yeah, they say that proves that he's a real contender now and all this type of shit. So he remained in the lower part of the top 10 until December 20th when he surprised the boxing world by flooring past and future champion, Emile Griffith, twice in the first round and scoring a TKO. So that made the Ring Magazine rank him

as the number three contender for the middleweight title. The Telegraph in the UK, the publication, said he's a top drawer middle, a top drawer, like, you know, best top drawer middleweight driving a customized Cadillac. Oh. I guess he's driving a Cadillac now. Living it. Hell yeah.

Living it up, yeah. He gets honored by the New Jersey Boxing Writers Association. Will honor him as the Fighter of the Year. Wow. In New Jersey anyway. Yeah, yeah. He's kind of a fighter too. But he's the number one contender here.

Here's a weird article from the Herald News, February 5th, 1964. Ruben Carter's mustache may frighten new daughter. What is that? Why are everyone so obsessed with this man's fucking mustache? Focused on the mustache. This is so weird. They said Ruben here, oh, they're talking about boxing.

What year is this? 1963. Oh, evidently you about boxing. I want to get here is this 1963 Oh evidently you didn't have a mustache in 63 Well, he apparently I guess he when he visited his wife in the hospital and saw the baby He put his hands over his Mustache over his mustache over his mouth and his wife said what the hell's wrong with your mouth And he said I don't want this mustache to maybe scare her What the hell's wrong with your mouth? And he said, I don't want this mustache to maybe scare her.

And he says he's a student of psychology and he admits that he wears the mustache to help frighten his opponents. Just because it makes him look meaner. Does facial hair do that? I guess so. I mean, I don't see if you're a professional boxer, facial hair probably making a big difference.

But I guess it makes him look a little bit meaner. Probably more than that, it makes him look a little bit meaner. Probably more than that, it makes him feel tougher is probably what it is. I look in the mirror, I see this, I feel like a tough son of a, I feel like Virgil Earp over here, you know? It is a specific mustache. It's very specific. So his wife said when she grows up a little, she might not be scared at all.

She might even admire it. So maybe do that. And he said, well, until we know whether she's scared or not, we'll leave the whiskers for then and then until we find out for sure. So that's pretty fucking funny. He says now he's going to, Ruben Carter fights for ailing boys.

He's going to hold a public sparring session to benefit three ailing North Hudson youths. So one is a four year old with leukemia. What's he going to do? Punch cancer? One had it out for money. It's to raise money. Yeah. Yeah. So people, yeah. In 63 we're going to look for a treatment for this poor kid? Jesus Christ. For leukemia and one who's recovering from surgery for an open heart ailment and one who suffers from a quote rare cancer disease These kids are so dead. Jesus. Well the open heart kid He's got a chance because they were working on hearts a lot but cancer

You're about fucking 50 years off from anybody getting anything on that. You're fine. So sorry young man You are fucked and fucked and double fuck. So Okay, this is funny by the way, right under this teachers get a spanking bill, it says as the headline. From Atlanta, the hand of discipline applied to the seat of learning met with approval of Georgia legislators yesterday.

The lower chamber on an overwhelming 115 to one vote approved a bill which would safeguard teachers 115 to 1 vote. Approved a bill which would safeguard teachers who administer spankings from civil or criminal lawsuits. Beat strangers' children and you're allowed to. So they had one person who was sane in the entire fucking state legislature? What the fuck? That's where we are.

I'm sure we're fighting that tooth and nail. Jesus Christ. February 28th, 1964, Jimmy Ellis, he fights 14 and 2 coming in. That's me. That's you. Well, almost. He fights him. That is me. That's my name. With a Y and he's not a wisman. So this is at Madison Square Garden and this goes all 10 rounds, unanimous decision, win for Rubin here. So he gets it 19 and four here and he says he doesn't want the champion, he wants Archer. He wants to fight this other guy.

He said, I want Archer. This time I can guarantee he won't stay in there. I won't say I'll knock him out, but he won't be in the ring at the end of the tenth round He was fucking everybody on his way up is what he wants He wants to beat everybody so that when he is the champ all these guys can't contend with him, right? I think also he's angry if he loses to somebody he wants to beat him. So that's the other thing I think he's pissy then right after that. There's an article that he and Tadeshi break it off

Oh, no more, huh? No more at all. They said in any event Carter now with Ludova, as we know, who's around forever. Ludova here, he's going to fight somebody with him as his manager. Carter who lives on Highland Avenue in Passaic has not fought before his hometown fans since gaining national prominence. He's had one fight this year. Okay, but he said that Carter and Tadeshi were not available for comments on their breakup. Interesting.

So they're gonna be... I don't know why. We're in the dark. Why they don't talk? They said Tadeshi failed to renew his contract with Ruben Carter, is what one guy said. And now it's too late for him to do so. I don't know what the rules are, I don't know any of that, but however the fuck it goes, May 9th, 1964, the New York Ring Commission suspends Ruben Carter. Uh oh. Yes, hurricane to appear before board Monday to straighten out troubles. They said that he has an appointment with the New York State Athletic Commission. He hopes will lift an indefinite suspension.

He's ranked third in his division. He said, they said he felt the anger of the commission Friday when he was penalized for failing to show up at a third request for a hearing on his dispute with manager Carmen Tadeshi. So something with him breaking a contract or I don't know what it is. He's not showing up to talk to the commission so they're gonna suspend him. They said the commission wants Carter to explain his troubles with Tadeshi and lifted the fighter's license for acts detrimental to the best interest of boxing.

Really? Yeah. What the f- come on. There's murderers, the fucking promoters are robbing these people blind. Nothing is in the best interest of boxing. They're allowing Jake Paul to do what he blind nothing is in the best interest of boxing they're allowing Jake Paul to do what he does that's what I what is the best interest of boxing that's fucking ridiculous the fighter claims the manager broke off the agreement and the manager says the fighter broke off the agreement so that's how it goes he claims the manager

says he holds a carter contract that was drawn up after the old one expired and it's on file with the commission, but Carter claims the new contract was never notarized and isn't legal because Tedeschi did not swear to it before the commission. So he says he's a free agent and he can do whatever he wants. We'll see what happens here. Are they going to honor that? Well, they say that he's got a new manager, so I mean, he's got to be doing something. Tadeshi says he's planning legal action, but he's got to know a new manager, Pat Amato.

So he's got some other guinea to train him now. This guy manages Frank DePaola. I'm sorry, manage, not train. And Ruben Carter now. And Amato immediately signed Ruben the world's leading middleweight contender to a four-year contract and he says he's gonna make him a champ. Gonna make him a champ. Tadeshi says I have a five-year civil contract with Ruben and I have a two-year contract in New York they won't

let me pick his fights but I'm still entitled to a cut of his purses. So now he wants to do no work but be given money. Yeah. Which is where boxing gets fucking shady as shit. They said that one of the, his lawyers said, I believe, that Tadeshi has devoted himself faithfully and loyally to his boxer. And yeah, so he says he should get something out of this. I guess he wants, they're arguing over what the cut would be

of the fight here, apparently. Should be 10%, right? Yeah, well, Tadeshi says, ask Rubin who paid for his first car and who paid for his wedding. Now, Amato is a guard at the Hudson County Penitentiary. So his new manager's a prison guard. Also announced he signed a new four-year contract with DePala, a leading flight heavyweight

prospect from New Jersey. He said, I think Ruben will be a good influence on Frank's training. Ruben is a hard worker and Frank always has looked up to him. Who fucking cares? Okay. So Ruben is going to fight in Los Angeles now, by the way. And now Tadeshi's saying he thinks that they're gonna have a, you know,

we're gonna get back together again. Sure. Yeah, a reconciliation of sorts is what he's talking about here. Reuniting, yeah. Yeah, reunited and it feels so good. So, Patamato says, I don't think they're gonna be reunited.

He said that to- I got a contract with the guy. Well, Tadeshi says Patamato's not even licensed in New Jersey and has been refused a managerial license by the California Commission because he's under investigation in New York he said I doubt whether he'll be with Rubin very long listen this guy's a jerk off is what's going on here so he fights Clarence James nine three and one in this is in the LA Sports Arena, which was a big fuckin' arena back then.

This fight is June 24th, 1964, first round knockout. He knocked the guy down once and he got up and the ref waved it off because he was wobbly. So they're obsessed with his head, obsessed with his fuckin' head. Here's an in- His, obsessed with his fucking head. Here's an in his face, his face and head, intelligence or journal article. Carter, who began to shave his head in prison,

is the kind of guy who if you saw him coming, you'd cross the street. Jesus. Yeah, he looks in shadow as if he belonged to the Tower of London with a head mask and an axe in his hand. He's an executioner apparently. He looks like the guy in The Wire that would say, sheeee.

Sheeee. Yeah, he kind of looks like Clay Davis a little bit. Clay Davis with a shaved head and a fucking handlebar mustache. That's all. It's not scary. He's not ugly or scary, but there's like, you put a mustache on anybody back then, it was a big fucking deal. They said in the ring he glowers,

but actually he's kind of mischievous and good-humored young man whose home life is kind of a three ring animal act, which includes a buckskin mare, hunting dogs, birds, rifles, and a yacht. The kind that needs oars, he says, he calls it his yacht. A daughter and also a Lincoln and a yacht the kind that needs oars he says he calls it his yacht a daughter and also a Lincoln and a Cadillac oh he's got both he's got both he's made it man he's made it so they're talking about what money he's gonna make

you know recently but back then the money wasn't the same this is kind of interesting they said the money figured to be a biggest stumbling block to staging the bout in Las Vegas Convention Center, where a recent welterweight championship bout grew a gross of $39,000. Less than half the amount necessary for the Silver State Sports Club to break even under the demands of these fighters.

Oh no. Yeah, so that's the problem. You have to make a certain amount of money to be able to pay these people because there isn't pay-per-view money or anything like there is now. Yeah, but can't the heavyweight bout subsidize this fight? Well, it's not a big enough place,

that's the most money you can draw there. Yeah, I get what you're saying, but yeah, there's not enough. The money was different back then. Yeah. Like way fucking different, so that's wild. They didn't even. You want money, it's gotta draw and way fucking different. So that's wild. They didn't even... You want money, it's got to draw and make money.

That's how business works. Well, like in the 70s, then you'd have it on like Wide World of Sports or be on like on a network television at night. So that would pay a bunch of money and it would be... But this is just the gate you're getting if it's not televised in any way, shape or form. So they're talking about the champion wants $55,000. So if it grossed $39,000. What about the other guy?

Yeah, what about nobody's getting shit here. So October 2nd, 1964, court issues warrant for Ruben Carter. Why? Well, the bench warrant's been issued for his arrest on the charge of assault and battery. Who'd he beat up? No more traffic problems here. The Detective William Neeson of the Patterson Police Department was uncertain, however, whether any attempt would be made to extradite Carter from Las Vegas.

This guy said, all I know is that there's a warrant issued for Carter on September 28th and that one, Miles Miles Alexander made the complaint. Alexander who's 30 years old claimed he was hit in the face by Carter during a brawl on July 2nd in the at a place called the Night Spot, a local tavern. This guy was hospitalized following the altercation because he got hit by a fucking welterweight boxer, a middleweight boxing contender. Yeah so Las Vegas, Carter vehemently denied any knowledge of the arrest warrant or the brawl with Alexander. He said that he's training at the El Cortez Casino.

Oh, that's a shithole. In Las Vegas, it's gone now. That's what it is. I don't even think it exists anymore. I think it was one of those ones outside the, oh no, that is the, I know exactly where the El Cortez was. That was on the old strip. It has to be, because the new strip

is much newer than that. But I thought it was one of the casinos that was on the outskirts that wasn't even on the strip. You know what I mean, like the Klondike was or something that's out there on its own, you know what I mean? So. It still exists. It still exists. It still exists, the El Cortez, okay.

It's on Fremont. Yeah, it's a fucking dump. Yeah, of course, it's on Fremont. It's on Fremont, we know it's a dump. But back then, that was Vegas, there was no new strip. That was the strip. That's awesome. So October 28th, 1964,

Ruben Carter, colon, angry young man, is the headline. Oh, I don't like that. Yeah, it says, if Ruben Carter had beaten, angry young man is the headline. Oh, I don't like that. Yeah, it says, if Ruben Carter had beaten Joey Ghirardello in the title match that didn't come off, he would have had to make his first three defenses for a corporation owned by the middleweight champion's lawyers. That would seem enough to ignite any man and Carter is as volatile as he is colorful. He has pleaded innocent and posted $5,000 bail to a charge of atrocious assault and battery.

Atrocious kind, yeah. Wow, they threw a fucking adjective in there like a bastard, which was not the first time he has been accused of a violent offense outside of the ring as in it. At the age of 11, he saw a reformatory. Yeah, there you go. So they talk about all of that and they say, now, he says, I don't value nothing in this world above my manhood, is what he said. They said, why, I asked him at the time, don't you see a psychiatrist?

And he said, maybe I should go to a psychiatrist, but I'm scared because of what he may say. He said, I'm so angry. And they were like, why don't you go see a psychiatrist? And he's like, oh, I don't know. They're gonna put me on drugs and commit me. I'm fucking nuts. Well, yeah, no shit. Then he's going to start telling me shit's wrong.

That's a fucking rabbit hole. I don't want to go down. I got enough work just punching this bag. Oh, you know how much he's going to find? I need this anger. This is this helps you make a living. He said, I've tried to analyze myself, but it seems to me as if I'm making it up because it's me.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what people do. He said he's a moody person given to periods of melancholy, yet he's also a flamboyant person who wears iridescent suits, rakish colored berets, shaves his head and sports a Genghis Khan type mustache. Fu Manchu, Mandarin, Genghis Khan, just the fucking list goes on and on and on. And the amount of times they call him colorful feels racist also. He's colorful. There's a lot of adjectives. Is it adjectives? When he wears a red suit he's all black and red, he's

colorful. He's all colorful. He said, I get into melancholy moods most of the times when it's cloudy out or something like that. You know, depressive weather. A normal person. Yeah. I go home and put on my records and listen to them, but then that drives me out of the house because it makes me feel worse.

When you're moody, they ask him, when you're moody what do you think about? And he said, I think that if you put your traps out right then you're going to make it out alright. I don't know what that means. And the guy said you make it sound like a jungle and he said life is a jungle, nothing but a jungle. Welcome to it. If you don't watch out, some cat's gonna jump down out of a tree and eat you up. Out of a tree, for Christ's sake. He thought for a moment about his answer and he said, don't make that symbolic. He smiled at his use of the word, but Carter does not surprise when he employs language Mom would ordinarily not expect from him.

He reads a lot for one who gets most of his education in reformatory schools and prison schools. However, Ruben is not a symbolic surprised. He talks about the fucking deal. He keeps talking about this very confusing deal he's made with his manager and all that kind of shit. And he said that he doesn't want to do business with these other people. He said there'd been rumors, of course, that in the event that Carter would be tied hand and foot to Giardello, who had in his past been linked to Frankie Carbo and Tony Bananas which is or gangsters and he said they could have had they could have Al Capone and Machine Gun Kelly behind them but we do business only with nationwide sports. Okay so he's it's him in this Giardello who are going to sign for a title bout here.

So big deal. He's ready to try to get the title. December 14th, 1964. This is for the WBA World Middleweight title and the WBC World Middleweight title. Okay, two belts. Joey Giardello, whose birth name is Carmine Orlando Tellelli. So, why? Joey Giardello. Yeah name is Carmine Orlando Tellele. So, why don't you...

Joey Giardello. Yeah. I don't fucking know. Whatever. Sounds more American Italian. I don't know. Yeah. 93-23-8 coming into this fight.

My God. Holy shit. This guy has fought so fucking much. And he's the champ. Yeah. They said in the fourth round, Carter landed a few solid rights to the head that left Giordalo staggering, but was unable to follow them up and Giordalo took control of the fight in the fifth round. This goes all 15 fucking rounds. Jesus God.

15 rounds. That's what title fights used to be back then. Yeah. And it's a unanimous decision loss for Ruben. He can't win. Nope. And he didn't do he lost them all by a good few rounds here He's now 20 and 5 and after this fight his rankings in the ring start to decline and go down. Yeah. Yeah Carter says that he won the fight and wants a rematch and wants a rematch He says he won the fight. No, you didn't he says He says he won the fight. No you didn't. He says, now Joey Giardello said, I won. My wife's pregnant with our fourth child.

He's a tough fighter. I'm going to go home and rest for a week. I got to be a dad. I got to be a dad. I got a fourth kid. Jesus Christ. Ruben Carter said, I won clear. Giardello's a likable fellow.

I'd like to get him in the ring again. I'm going to grow my beard again and I'm gonna go on a vacation to Bermuda. Okay. So that's what happened here. I guess the judges, it was a 70 to 67, 71, 66, 72, 66. Not really that close. Not that close.

Few rounds off and everybody who watched it seemed to be the way it goes. But Carter said that I won nine rounds to six. That's the way he thought about it. That's it. He said I thought I won nine to six, but I guess not. Carter said, quote, if I pressed him anymore, he would have had to walk on top of the ropes.

He would have needed a scooter, because Giordelo said that that that he made the challenger fight my fight and it made it easier for him and Ruben Ruben said no I pressed it to him that's not what I want he said he asked if he felt like crying since he lost and earned but he would have got he only got ten thousand dollars as opposed the whole gate was eighty five thousand two forty five he should have and earned, but he only got $10,000 as opposed, the whole gate was 85,245, he should've got, if he won he would've got like $40,000.

He said, others will cry for me, my wife and baby will cry, someone has to hold their head up in this family, I guess I'll have to do it. A fuckin' weird comment here, very weird. Girodello's 34 years old by the way. That's fucking interesting. January 4th, 1965. Now he's going to fight a British boxer instead here. He's going to fight Mick Leahy. He's going to fight. His name isn Leahy. No, which is the most Irish name of all time Mick Leahy Mick This lady more Irish and kind of racist

Yeah His name is like Johnny the Mick Leahy, you know, I mean, that's what I think it is here This is a ten round fights gonna be at Royal Albert Hall. So we're doing the whole deal Yeah Gonna do do it super British and I guess it replaces a different fight that was supposed to be at Royal Albert Hall. So we're doing the whole deal. We're going to do it super British. And I guess it replaces a different fight that was supposed to be on the card here. January 23rd, 1965, title or headline, jury refuses to act against Ruben Carter. A Passaic County grand jury has refused to indict him on charges of atrocious assault

and battery. We felt it was not as atrocious as the cops felt it was. Maybe kind of acceptable, to be honest. You know, we figure that's how it goes here. They said that the two complaints stemmed from separate nightclub incidents. He did it twice in one night? Yes. The grand jury apparently weighed and found not applicable a state law

providing that a boxer who attacks another person with his fists may be charged with atrocious assault and battery rather than simple assault. That's why they say simple because it's simple or atrocious. One of the two. February 12th, 1965 Luis El Feo Rodriguez he fights. 57 and 4 coming into this fight and he almost has a pretty similar career after that. He ends up being 107 and 13. My God. Oh wow. This is at Madison Square Garden and it's a 10 round fight and it goes the whole distance and Rubin loses again by unanimous

decision. The man has fought 120 fights in his career. That's, and he won 107 of them? That's a lot, yeah. Jesus. 113 total. I mean that's a good fighter. Experienced fighter knows what he's doing. Great career. So now they're saying Rubin's gonna fight in Paris. Oh. Carter, third ranking contender for the middleweight title will fight Fabio Battini, an Italian living in France. So next up, February 22nd 65, Fabio Battini, 2011 and 7 coming into this fight. This is at the Palais des Sports in Paris, so the Palace of Sports. Yeah, this is a goes all 10, I'm sorry not all 10, it goes into the the tenth round of a ten round fight where Ruben knocks him out in the tenth round take that Wow got him at the end of the fight good for him. So 21 and 6 for Ruben here now

March 6 1965 He's bragging Ruben says that he's gonna fight Harry Scott who's a Liverpool middleweight and He says if it lasts more than two or three rounds basically someone's gonna get knocked out. Oh Early, they'd be very surprised if someone's not knocked out by the fourth round. That's what it is They described Carter with his shaven skull and long drooping black mustache is an awesome figure That's fucking hilarious, I love that. His physique is near as near perfect as makes no difference and he has the bicep and shoulder development

of a heavyweight. He is, he does look strong like that. He's so impressive, yeah. He's got a strong. His thigh muscles are incredible too. Yeah, he's a big strong dude. Let's see, this is a, they're talking about, that man hits harder than anybody I've ever come across.

George Hollister said, a husky London meat porter. What is that? I guess he takes meat places. I don't know, a meat delivery person. Right, oh, there he is. He said, the punches come at you from all angles and every one of them hurts. And that was only in sparring that he said he fought with him. person. He said the punches come at you from all angles and every one of them hurts. And

that was only in sparring that he said he fought with him. Then the next thing is reformed, it says. And they say, I found this man, Carter, aptly nicknamed Hurricane on account of his demeanor in the ring, a fascinating character. He was witty, intelligent, and altogether a much more engaging person than advanced publicity would have had us believe because he's never been to England. They don't know him. He has served a jail sentence. He makes no attempt to hide the fact or to, you know, to act like he's a completely reformed character. I am prepared to believe him on that score. And I am also prepared to believe him that he will soon be champion of the world if given another chance by Joey

Giordello. With the ambition still burning so brightly, Carter cannot afford to slip up against Scott and I'm quite certain he will not do so. This guy's making proclamations here. No shit. Carter continues to say that he was robbed in the title fight. Continue to say robbed, robbed. So March 9th, 1965, Harry Scott is the fighter. 22, 14 and 4.

He'll finish his career 39, 34 and 6 by the way. Jesus. That's not good. Royal Albert Hall this is. This is a 10 round fight. Goes into the 9th round where Ruben TKO's Scott and wins the fight. 22 and 6 for Ruben, and he's very excited about knocking out him. Rematch, though, April 20th. Here we go. So that's a month later, they have a rematch, which is super weird, and this fight goes all 10 rounds.

Scott is knocked down for a five count in the first round, so it looks like it's gonna be over quick, ends up going all ten rounds and Ruben loses on points You know the fuck is a must writer you gave up the rest of the fight fuck man, that's insane That's fucking wild now during his visit to London to fight Scott Carter was involved in an incident in which a gunshot was fired in his hotel room. Oh no. Which is, I don't know how. Into his hotel room or was fired. No,

inside his hotel room. Yeah. Or was a gunshot fired. That is not good. I guess they said, they kept calling it a hometown decision that gave Scott the victory here. And that happened a lot, obviously. They said it left British commentators divided and the American camp furious. They Pat Amato the manager said we will never come back to Britain I have never seen such a disgraceful decision in my life. No kidding. Wow I guess that it seemed like he dominated he said I thought I won just about every round he said sure the AP Associated Press gave Carter the first, fourth, seventh, eighth, and ninth rounds,

with Scott taking the second, third, and sixth, and the rest even. So that would have given Carter the win too. I guess 30 seconds after the opening bell is when he first knocked him down. That's fast. Yeah. The veteran correspondent of the Daily Mirror said the Americans certainly

didn't win all 10, but I thought he did enough to merit the verdict. So April 27th, 1965, Carter is trying to do they say that he has a flair for knocking guys down in the boxing ring. He also has an uncanny knock of getting into trouble with cops in Patterson, his hometown. Both subjects were afraid at length by the hurricane. His manager, Pat Amato of Jersey City and Patterson promoter, Lou Duva, and reporters at a press conference yesterday at Fifth Avenue. Okay. Amato wanted to cry on reporter's shoulders about Rubin's loss by decision to George Scott.

Duva wanted to beat the drums for Friday night's 10-round middleweight match between Carter and Johnny Torres. And Carter spent a great deal of time explaining his side of a story concerning a raid early Saturday. Patterson police charged a crap game was going on and threw Carter in jail for a few hours before Duva, who also happens to be a bail bondsman, bailed him out of jail. Wow. That's...

That's amazing. That's actually a really good promoter to get for Rubin, a bail bondsman promoter. Rubin said, there was no crap game going on while I was in there. I just dropped in to see a few of my friends. When the cops came, they saw Rubin Carter and decided to make a big thing out of it. They're out to bug me. I used to be a scoundrel.

Maybe that's why they still have it in for me. Maybe that's why also we have crime and sports rule number three, never go home. Don't go back. If you've already fucked up and now you're super famous and they know who you are, leave it alone. You're recognizable? You can be seen? Don't go back. If you've already fucked up and now you're super famous and they know who you are, leave it alone. You're recognizable?

You can be seen? Don't do that. Don't get the fuck out of here, man. He said, though, despite his brush with the police, Carter's in a good mood and he sparred verbally with reporters. He said, I can't let Sonny outdo me talking to, talking about Sonny Liston getting arrested. I need to get arrested as much as him, ha ha. I can't let him be the only guy with a crime

and sports episode in 50 fucking years, in 60 years. Someone asked how the hurricane liked the English Bobbies, the cops there, and he said, a lot better than the Patterson Bobbies. They didn't fucking arrest me, even though a gunshot went off in my fucking room. Yeah, there was gunplay for Christ's sake. That is wild.

I don't know. They never found out more to that of why the fuck there was gunplay in his room, but apparently there was gunplay in his room. Odd shit. So they said, here's another paper article that says, this is fucking interesting, Carter is a trouble guy. I guess he gets picked up for disorderly conduct every month or so. The fact that he's a cop hater doesn't help him. In that respect, he's much like Sonny Liston, the former heavyweight champion of the world. Sonny has a persecution

complex going for him. He hates everyone. Never occurs to him that many regard him as a yellow belly because he quit to Cassius Clay. Jesus. Chicken. Where's Carter? Oh yes, the one big news organization, or the one big organization which has faith in him beating Torres within an inch of his life is the Madison Square Garden Corporation. Without waiting to make sure that he gets by Torres, Garden officials announced May 20th bout between Carter and Dick Tiger, the former middleweight champion. Carter, a mustachioed middleweight, is a slugger who hasn't been winning often. Lost the decision to Harry Scott in London last week.

It goes on. So Johnny Torres, this is at the Armory in Patterson, long way from Madison Square Garden. Torres, 18, 24 and 6 in his career. This goes to the eighth round. TKO win for Ruben. Here we go. There we go. 23 and 7 here.

So here we are in 1965, May 12th, 1965. So two weeks after this fight, Ruben Carter is cleared of most charges. He goes into municipal court on five charges of assault, disorderly conduct and gambling. But he's only fined, you sir, may fuck off, $25. That's it for all of that stuff. That is for, they dismissed the disorderly conduct charge and this was for the gambling establishment arrest, for being in a gambling establishment.

For being there, okay. They also found him innocent of assault and battery and disorderly conduct. These are complaints stemming from separate fights that he was got into with people. Another disorderly charge conduct charge against Carter and sparring partner Clay, 28 of Brooklyn was withdrawn. So there's another kind of they were I guess they beat the shit out of somebody. They fight each other all day then they go out and beat somebody else up. Yeah, so they're talking about he's gonna have a fight coming up, he's got so much fucking

problems. And then finally they say he's been ordered to shave off his drooping mandarin-type mustache for his fight with Nigeria's Dick Tiger at Madison Square Garden. By the boxing commission? By Dick Tigers himself said it. I won't fight a man with a mustache. The ruling was made by Frank Morris, chief deputy of the state athletic commission after a protest by Tiger's handlers. Tiger said he'd been told in the gym by Johnny Torres,

a recent knockout victim of Carter, that Carter uses the mustache as a weapon in clinches. I don't know, I guess you could abrasively, you could make the skin thinner. Irritate people with it, I don't know, is it thick and bristly? I mean, yeah, but still, Carter was pissed off. Obviously. He said quote You know what? Let's do it in their own words to end this out here

This will be about the end of it and then we'll save dick tigers Okay, we'll save the drama of dick tiger for next week here, but let's see here. Okay. Here we go in their own words quote First they make me shave my goatee now. They want me now. They want to take away my personality I don't have any hair on my head because I shave it if I take off the mustache I won't have any hair left remember what happened to Samson when they clipped him I don't want that to happen to me their biblical When they clipped him like he got his balls cut off right they carry all my strength in my mustache Holy shit, so there we go. That is Ruben Carter part one.

And we're setting up. He's carrying his strength in his mustache. Strength is all in his mustache. He's got to shave it. He's going to fight Dick Tiger. And we are going to do this next time. And then things are going to get very, very weird for Ruben Carter after that. So Dick Tiger is where we will leave off on May 20th, 1965. There you go.

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