Crime in Sports - #421 - Dead Men Don't Smoke - "Hurricane" Rubin Carter - Part 2

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

This week, we start with Rubin's career going downhill, fast. Fighting three times in one month. From there, it gets worse. After a night out at a local night spot, he is accused of going into a bar, with an accomplice, and murdering 3 people, in cold blood, while making one very unlucky man's life even worse. There is very little evidence, and Rubin passed a polygraph, but never the less, we end this episode with Rubin sent to prison for consecutive life terms. Will the truth ever come out??Have everybody comment of your facial hair, be accused of triple murder, even though one of the surviving victims said it wasn't you, and begin serving your prison time, while reading law books in your cell with "Hurricane" Rubin Carter - Pert 2!!Check us out, every Tuesday!We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. What's the answer? And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head? Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Binge all episodes of Hysterical Early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Hello everybody and welcome back to Crime in Sports. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy.

Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today. We are very excited for part two of the hurricane here. This will be a lot. It's fun so far. Yeah. Yeah. It's the weird part about this is because they made a movie, which I said last week, I didn't see because they made a movie and Denzel's in it. So you figure,

wow, I put Denzel and it must be important. So you must be some kind of, you know, important guy. And then you got a Bob Dylan song where the lyrics literally are, the man authorities came to blame for something that he never done. So you're like, okay, this poor bastard must've been just like, you know, he had been training all night. Railroaded. Went to a diner to, you know, fucking load up on to fucking protein load and everything and fucking walked out of there

like hands in his pockets on a fall evening and the police just said, there he is and scooped him up and threw him in a car and he goes, I don't know what happened. This is crazy. I'm a lamb of God. What is happening right now? Or walked in on a crime scene that they were already investigating. They're like, he came back, arrest him. He's like, what do you mean?

Oh my God. And then he's traumatizedized I'm so traumatized from seeing a corpse not like that so it's a lot of he's actually a pretty bad guy and also the things that we'll talk all about it we'll get into that before we do though definitely first just want to say head over to shut up and give me murder calm if you head over there you'll get tickets for Small Town Murder Live shows. We got merch for all the shows, everything like that. Small Town Murder, Crime and Sports, Your Stupid Opinions, it's all on there.

So check it out and you should be listening to those shows as well. In addition to that, you should certainly be signing up for Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get that and anybody five dollars a month or above you get so much stuff. It's a whole separate feed of everything.

There's hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff that you can get to and they keep stacking up because you get new ones every other week. A Crime and Sports, a Small Town Murder and you get all of it. This week we're going to talk about for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about the whole Duke LacLaCrosse fiasco that happened. Did we not? We did not.

We talked about the Duke fuck list, which is much different. This is the opposite of that. This was something that actually didn't even happen. So this is fucked up. This is pretty messed up. The whole thing's messed up. You hear, wow, that's true. That's really messed up.

And then you go, it's not true? That's even more messed up somehow. You're close to it. I don't know. It's at least they're both bad. This is all bad. No good results come out of this. So we'll talk all about that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. So get in there and be a part of it, because you also get a shout out at the end of the show as well. So that's very exciting. Here we go. Let's get right into this. Episode 420, by the way. Nicey nice, I got good and blazed up for it. Good for you.

There we go. Oh yeah, the nice blue dream here. Well you can smell it. I like that. You can smell the cloud in the air here. It's good. It's my favorite. I like a blue dream.

Blue dream, sour diesel. You're a Sativa guy, I know. Yeah, I may have to bring you an Up in the Pines. This stuff is, oh my. The where? It's called Up in the Pines, it's mad mellow. Okay. And it's so good.

Really? It's very similar to Blue Dream. I imagine it's probably a similar strain. Yeah. I don't know why they call it Up in the Pines, cause you don't get, I mean, I don't like being stone stone. No, well I think up is sativa.

Yeah, yeah that's probably it. Yeah, like up, like you're up and you're smoking in the pines. If they were trying to act like you're gonna get, probably be called up in the clouds. Not up in the clouds. Up in the clouds or like down on the couch or something like that. Up in the stars or further.

Up in your pantry, some shit, you know, one of those. Up in the pines is about as high up as I want to get Yeah, no, no higher than the pines, please Clouds seem a bit too high for me. Yeah, I and Georgia pines is too high. Yeah, I get up there I like I like a sativa during the day, you know, I'm a I love a good hard-hitting Indica at night That's good, too. I know that's that makes you paranoid. I know You know, thank you every weeds an ind I don't like you. Thank you. Every weeds an indica for you because you have like you have like a like a like a toddler with

energy is your stone cycle. Like Jimmy will be real energetic. He'll talk a lot. He'll eat a bunch of food and then sit there real quiet for a while and then go right to sleep. That's it. That's the that's the cycle, no matter what we did. Sleep to sleep. And I'm probably gonna have a handful of that food still. Yeah, yeah, probably. Probably half of a BLT in your hand as this is going on. So let's get into Mr. Carter here.

Part two of Rubin the Hurricane Carter, or Hurricane Rubin Carter, or whatever you wanna call it. And- Little or beginning. Yeah, we talked, I don't know if we got to Dick Tiger last time when he fought. We did. The fighting of Dick Tiger where he said it was the worst beating that I ever took in my life inside or outside the ring, he said.

So poor guys, Dick Tiger's just pumping him. How much is Dick taking out on the outside of the ring? Well, I mean, I think he's fought a lot. Remember he came up, that's all he did. So he tries to apparently make a comeback here with July 14th, 1965, fighting Fate Davis. His name is, the man's name is Fate. So you know, whatever happens in this fight was supposed to happen. That's just the way it works.

Fate Davis was 23, 1 and 1, but his fate was not to be a great boxer. As the end of his career, he lost a lot of fights. He was 39, 15, and three. This is at the Armory in Akron, which is not Madison Square Garden exactly, which is where old Rubin was fighting last time. This is a one round TKO. The ref stops the fight at a minute 26 in

as Rubin was absolutely pummeling fate Yeah, this brings Ruben to 24 and 7 yeah, it's a lot of losses for Ruben here But I can imagine he was super pissed after he lost that last fight and took it out on this poor man here Yeah, so he's fighting again the next month in August 65 Lewis el feo Rodriguez el feo is his nickname feo So he's fighting again the next month in August 65 Luis El Feo Rodriguez. El Feo is his nickname. F-E-O. What is F-E-O in Spanish?

I don't know. I don't know either. I imagined it was a different spelling and I don't like that. The Feo, whatever the fuck that means. Whatever El Feo is. Rodriguez. He's 63 and 4 coming into this fight though. That's a lot of fights.

His career record 107 and 13 Jesus Jesus 120 career fights man. This is and he did well Yeah, that's great 107 and 13 is not bad at all This is at the Olympic auditorium in Los Angeles and this fight goes all 10 rounds And it is a unanimous decision loss for Rubin again here. Yeah, because this guy's too good. So this is a lot. He's having a hard time here. So now he's 24 and eight.

And the cards weren't even close either. So he got his ass kicked here. Not great. Next up, maybe the best nickname for a fighter of all time. If you're gonna try to scare people, fucking go the whole route. You know what I mean? People are, even like I'm the executioner, like turns or this or that. This guy got it right September 18th, 1965. Joe Axkiller Nadege.

Is he really? Axkiller. I'm taking all pretense off the table. I murder people with a fucking axe How does that which is weird because you're in the ring you have no access to weapons and couldn't hold them if you did Because you have these big gloves on so that's the safest place to be with an axe killer is in a boxing ring where you both Have gloves on really Anywhere on earth that's the only place where he would it would be safe to be around that man He could be drooling snarling and telling you and telling you actively, I'm going to chop your head off. Good luck, bitch.

You giggle at that man. You know what I'll do? I'll laugh at you while you try to pick up an axe for 15 minutes with those gloves on, because watching you try to do it super gentle and make the thumb hole go in there, and you pick it up and drop it, that'd be awesome. I'll beat the shit out of you while you're doing that. Forget about it. I'll lay it on the ground. Yeah, you can have it.

You can hit me with it. I'm the only one that gets to punch. If I can knock you out before you can get a good grip on it and take a swing at me, I win. How's that? I'll just tee off on you while you try to pick the axe up fair matter of fact you're not allowed to punch the only thing you can do is chop me down that's all you can do you have an axe what do you need the hands for go ahead and pick it up ding ding I am on top of him good luck motherfucker you try to pick anything up with boxing gloves it's hilarious

like just even a mouthpiece you're like meh, it just doesn't really work. Trying to manipulate my phone when it rings when I'm at the gym has to be hilarious to watch. It's anything. Anything you have gloves on. I've got my tongue out dragging it along my bottom lip as I'm trying to swipe, ignore. It's fucking ridiculous. So the Axe Killers 45, 6 and 1 coming in. So he's been doing some axe killing. He is 75, 21 and 2 for his career. This is in Johannesburg, South Africa. So we're going to definitely take it to a different place

here and this fight second round TKO win for Ruben so 25 and 8. Ruben makes a little comeback here. He's doing good and I guess he knocked him out pretty well. He was 156 and three-quarter pounds coming into this fight by the way. Pretty big. Yeah, he's a middleweight here and there was 8,000 people there and he knocked the guy down three times and the fourth time he was down the ref was like, that'll do, I think. You're just pummeling this man at this point. It's just sad at this point. So October 19th, 1965, there's an article that says school teacher earns shot at Ruben

Carter. School teacher. Okay. Who's this? I hope the shot means he gets to shoot at him. Joe's versus Bros? Yeah, this sounds terrifying here. It says that a bout with a highly ranked middleweight contender, Ruben Hurricane Carter, loomed

today for Chicago school teacher Freddie Little as a result of his seventh round knockout of Charlie Austin of Phoenix, Arizona. Is that right? I guess he dropped Austin with a left hook to the body before the end of the seventh round of their main event at the Hacienda Hotel Monday night. Really? Yeah, that's a real, that's a legendary boxing venue there, I think. Where the hell is that?

It's got to be gone. I have no idea. It's got to, it has to be in Phoenix too. You know, it has to be gone. I have no idea. It's got to be in Phoenix too. You know it has to be there. The bell sounded as referee Harry Krause told eight, but under Nevada rules he continued to count to ten. There's no, you can only be saved by the bell in the last round in most of these fights. So they said Austin had troubled Little with his aggressive mauling tactics and was only

slightly behind when the knockout occurred. So the guy Little, the schoolteacher, is 29 and 1 with 22 knockouts. And he's up next for Rubin, huh? He's up next. Now Rubin, at the end of 1965, Rubin is the number 5 ranked middleweight still. Okay. So not bad as we start 1966 here. Hurricane, they're saying he's still a star basically. There's articles about him still being a star. Apparently Rubin came to Pittsburgh two years ago and knocked out Emil Griffith, he had a manager, Jesus Christ, who, Carmen Tedeschi who we talked about, who apparently was super,

they made a big deal out of the fact that he was really into astrology and used... Amil? Amil was. No, no. Carmen Tadeshi was. Oh, we're right. Was using the stars to figure out who to put Rubin up against, apparently. Oh, he thinks he's the baboon from Lion King.

Yeah, he's going to intuit who he should fight. So they said in this article, promoters found Tedeschi incomprehensible. There was that time that Herman Taylor called Carter's manager and offered him a fight in Philadelphia. And Tedeschi said quote, what month were you born in? That has nothing to do with this. What the heck? That is awesome.

I'm not sure if we'd take, wow, I don't know. He's some blonde influencer today. This is, you know, he'd be hugely popular. Tick tock star. And his Taylor was like, he called him up. He said, he it's in the fights in Philadelphia. Here's the opponent. Here's how much money. So time place fucking pay. And he was like, what month were you born in? That's wild. He said, what month were you born in? That's wild. He said what month was I born in? What in the world does that have to do with that? That's what he

said to the newspaper. He probably said what the fuck does that matter? What were fucking two boxing guys talking? And then Tadeshi just repeated what month were you born in? Just give me your birthstone. Fuck it. Tadeshi, so Taylor told him what month he was born in so Tadeshi said hold on just a minute put down the phone and went to look it all up in his horoscope book. Yeah. And then he said quote we can't fight for you you were born in a losing month. This is not how you run a fucking major athletic career at all. This is not how you do it. You got a losers month. Sorry about it.

We can't fight for you. You were born in a losing month. We'll lose if we fight. Wow. What does that mean? Don't worry about it. Goodbye. That is fucking bonkers.

So now he's got a new manager here that does not base his fight schedule on the astrology. Does it know anything about losing months? Jesus Christ. That is amazing. So Carter's new one is they say no less unusual than Tedeschi. Oh. He's Pat Amato, a warden.

He only gets Italian managers, by the way. He won't have, he'll only have an Italian manager. It's weird, Italians were so big in the boxing. I know this because my stepmother's father was an Italian guy who was a boxing trainer. I don't know any Italians that didn't love boxing. We were so fucking into it. If you look at all the boxers of the 30s and 40s and even into the 50s, they're all Italian, all these fucking guys too, or half of them anyway.

It was just Italian guys fighting black guys all the time. That was it. And so then that happened. And then Rocky, and Rocky Marciano. Yeah. There's a lot of Italian culture. Tons of them, yeah. And like I said, all the trainers, so many of them are Italians,

even when you get into later on days, they're still Italian guys. It's like at baseball. Like for some reason, we're always a catcher and manager. The catcher and the manager, one of those two. So they say this guy, Pata Matto's a warden at the Hudson County jail in Jersey City, because we talked about him last week.

Yeah, that he was a, I didn't know he was a warden, I knew he worked at the jail. So they said that Ruben, called Hurricane, spent a third of his life behind bars. They were like, this is actually perfect. Carter was also born in a losing month, they say here in the paper. At the age of 12, not really meaning to be a thief,

he took a half dozen polo shirts from a department store counter and passed them around to his friends. His father, a deacon, a very religious man who believed in punishment, fucking turned him in as we've talked about here. Amato said it scarred him. He's a boy with a strong character, but this turned him sour on people.

He never had anyone to talk to. He's never had anyone interested in him. Now take his father. His father had him arrested. What was the boy going to think? He thought his whole world, he thought the whole world was against him. Even his own dad will have him arrested. He ran away from the reformatory, ran away after three and a half years and joined the Air Force. He did a full hitch and got an honorable discharge.

That's not exactly true. As a paratrooper and found a little job and bought a hundred fifty dollar car and the police came and took him away. Right. Because he was a fugitive from well. Yeah. in there hang in there He had to go back to the reformatory and finish his sentence after that There was nothing but trouble Carter sir four and a half years for beating up three men in the street a bum rap That's what the manager says The cops he says the cops had big eyes for me Big eyes is what Rubin said, but that's when he learned to box so it's okay and Amato says it was an outlet for him he was getting even with people getting vent to his emotions in the ring he knew that if he punched

anyone outside of the ring he's going to jail. Oh that's a good lesson to learn he's changed now he hasn't got that chip on his shoulder anymore but when the bell rings he's a different person a a ferocious person. And then they continue to talk about his mustache, which is just such a huge topic of conversation back then. Holy shit. The sixties, people were obsessed with hair of all kinds, your facial hair, hair on your head, how long it was exactly, what kind of mustache you had, your sideburns too long. There was a lot of like...

Open that shirt one more button. Let's have a look see that too. People would just look at someone's fucking hair and completely judge their entire character in the 60s. It's wild. Really weird stuff. Is that how much they were wearing their identity in their hair? Yeah, well that's all you had to do.

If you grew your hair past your ears, it was a huge, oh he's a rebel. I mean it was considered a huge act of rebellion. The lifestyle elite. Yeah, it was considered a huge act of rebellion against society that you're growing your hair. Or if you, God forbid, if you grew a small beard, oh my God. Oh my, you fucking beatnik hippie. Get back to the hash fucking den, you fucking weirdo. Wash the bugs out of that thing, you disgusting bastard.

Jesus Christ. I mean, it was a big deal back then. Huge fucking deal. That went on for a long time. Even in the fucking 80s, it was like that. Represented your fucking manners, I guess? Yeah, represented. The 80s, though. The 80s was even, it was the same fucking way in the 80s. Oh like that. Represented your fucking manners I guess? Yeah represented.

The 80s though. The 80s was even, it was the same fucking way in the 80s. Oh god they were teasing it. James making it bigger. Their women's hair. Men too. But you had to have like a mullet. Mostly they were rock stars.

But you also had to have it short around your ears. That's where the mullet came from because the 80s wouldn't stand for shaggy hair, only in the back there. So Carter, I guess, they got together, he got together with his manager, Amato, through another fighter named Frankie DePaula, who Amato also manages, and Amato said Frankie was fighting in Jersey City, and Rubin came over to see him. He and Frankie were alumni mates, if you know what I mean.

Both from the pen. Oh, cellmates. Yeah. He said, I took him on a tour of different institutions and jails to box exhibitions. He made a terrific hit at Raw-Way, where he served his time. When he broke with Tadeshi, he and his father,

they got along fine now, asked me if I'd be interested in handling him which is nice here so he said this is fucking funny in his second fight for Amato he had a shot at the title he lost to Joey Giordello who we talked about in a close decision chasing dick tiger chasing dick tiger which is a funny... Chasing Dick. Chasing Dick, the new champion. Amato has him fighting Skeeter McClure in Chicago Saturday night, then Morris and on January 26th, Stan Harrington in Honolulu, and Carter is getting over his sourness. Amato says he's been reading psychology.

You should hear him quoting those authors. He can quote them a mile a minute." And they said, which books is he reading? He goes, oh, I don't fucking know. Amato said, I've studied criminology, but I don't know a thing about psychology or astrology. Yeah, that was just a funny add on. And criminology, the only thing you study is being their fucking warden. I was going was gonna say if you're a warden, you should probably know something about Psychology about how to yeah, how to get people to behave? Yes might have some behavioral issues and how many of different behavioral issues are all there We have to deal with a little psychology might be helpful there. I would imagine understand But a little goes a long way. Yeah well

he studied club beating is what he studied. He's like I studied taking a club and beating people with it. That's the thing I'm studying. Yeah. Sha-shank therapy. You know how that goes. So January 8th, 66, Wilbert Skeeter McClure. Skeeter, that's what you want. I'm terrified, shaking in my boots from Skeeter. Skeeter is 18 and three, his brother Cooter is gonna come out of the stands and fight you if you beat him is the problem. He's 18. I can't believe that's an actual very common name.

Cooter? Yeah, is that the nickname? So much so that it's a stereotype, but that's crazy. It's a hazard is where it came from, right? Is that where it came from? As a stereotype, yeah, because Cooter was a mechanic on Dukes of Hazzard. Okay, yeah. It's a very common thing to call guys.

And then people are like, that's a great name. Call me Cooter. Okay. Sounds good. My friends call me Cooter. My friends call. My best friends call me. You sure those are friends call me Cooter. My friends call. My best friends call me. You sure those are your friends Coots?

Fishy, fishy lap pocket. Yeah. My best friends call me stink hole. He said Wilbur here, Skeeter is 18 and three coming in. The Aragon ballroom in Chicago. This is uh, this fight goes all 10 rounds It's a split decision in Ruben's favor. So he wins the fight. Oh, that's great. So 26 and 8. He almost lost to Skeeter That's not good. Skeeter almost gotcha. Things are not going well. Like at this point his career I mean, he's fucking he's 26 and 8

At this point, his career, I mean, he's fucking, he's 26 and eight. Yeah. Like, I just feel like he's, that's not like a... It's not movie-worthy. No. Well, it's not, they make it from, just from the fucking trailer. Now, this is only the trailer, so I can't say that the movie tried to portray this, but between the song and the trailer of the fucking movie, and mind you, I thought Ving Reims was in the movie, because I saw a, I thought Ving Rhames was in the movie

because I saw a different movie where Ving Rhames was a fighter, so I don't know much about this. But judging on those two things, I thought when he came out of that diner after loading up with protein there and had his hands in his pocket and was falsely accused, I thought at that point, he was a week away from a fight with the champ because he was like undefeated. That's what they made it sound like, like he was on the verge of championhood.

Instead, he's pushing 30 and he's got eight fucking losses. Yeah. There was a movie about Ali, he's certainly not undefeated, but he only has five losses. Yeah. And they were all at the very end when he probably fought him anyway. Oh, Jesus, he couldn't pronounce the people's names anymore and he was doing that. He lost to Trevor Burbick, didn't he? I mean, that says a lot because Trevor Burbick wasn't the best fighter going.

We did an episode on him. He's quite though. He was unstable. Way more unstable than Ali is. He was a bit unstable. Oh, Jesus. Ali was stable. His brain just wasn't quite connecting, firing off on all fucking pistons there.

So January 18th, 10 days later he fights again. He fought a 10 round fight that he almost lost. I mean, so he got punched a lot. Less than a fortnight. He's in it again. You're still, 10 days isn't enough for the swelling to go down from a 10 round fight. Ten days is barely enough time to catch your breath again. Yeah, and especially your brain.

Your brain has not recovered from taking hundreds of blows. So he fights 10 days later against Johnny Morris, who's I believe that school teacher we talked about. Oh no, no, this is a different guy. This is a different guy. 25 and 9 is this guy This goes all 10 again And he loses a split decision this time, of course he does his fucking legs have to be mush like you can't No way dude, your hands would still hurt from punching after 10 days

That's you don't even you're not even fucking like working out 10 days after a fight. You're still in like lay down, hydrate, you've got your body heal mode, sleep fucking 14 hours a night type of shit. That's crazy. So he loses this fight and that's his fucking manager's fault. You don't line up fights 10 days apart. Unless he's fighting a guy you know he can beat in the first round the first time. Some tomato can.

So yeah after that they said, unlikely or unlucky Rubin was a loser all the way is a Pittsburgh post Pittsburgh press article here. It says Rubin Carter started losing the day before the fight. A lawyer representing a loan company got an order from common places please court, Please court. Oh common, please court. Sorry It's a newspaper to hold up his purse. So he wasn't even getting paid Put a fucking stop on a shit Is he in debt to somebody apparently so something told Carter He should turn around and go back to Patterson, New Jersey

But on the morning of the way in throwing a bone to fate He reluctantly shaved off his van dyke, but on the morning of the way in, throwing a bone to fate, he reluctantly shaved off his Van Dyke, which is the Van flu. So none of that, no, he had the full goatee going on there. The Van Dyke is important to Carter. It advertises his individuality. He said, but I thought to myself, well, in order to get this cat in the ring,

I'll take it off, because he said he wouldn't fight him with it because he can grind it into him. Sam Weisenberg, who manages Johnny Morris, had been haranguing the state athletic commission about Carter's Van Dyke. Then when Morris weighed in a half pound over the contract limit, 161, Pat Amato, who manages Carter,

said, if the Van Dyke comes off, the half pound comes off. We're going to the letter of it, and so are you. Maybe he should have consulted the stars. Maybe they would have known this is a bad fight. How thick is that hair? That's a half pound. The worst part is if he shaves his head and lets it grow for a day and grinds that in the guy's head, it's way worse than a goatee. You can cut a guy with that. You can just grind his skin away to nothing.

It's like sandpaper. I assure you, if I shave my face and then let it grow for two days, I will tear skin off of your cheek. Absolutely, oh boy. This thing is wild. It's either a few more days or just shaved with a straight razor is the only way.

It's, me too. The only way it's gonna be legal. I have very coarse, thick, skinny beard hair. I will fuck you up. Yeah. Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

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So that's what he said. He said, so you guys had to do that. Morris went out and ran around the block and weighed in again a half pound lighter. So he ran around and sweated off a half pound of water. That'll do it. So Carter said yes, but who saw him on the scales? Hmm. Next was the issue of the trunks. Ruben said they asked me what color I was wearing. I told them white with a black stripe. Then they asked Morris white with a black stripe.

I'm from out of town. I'm supposed to have the preference. I did not know that trunk preference went to the road. I had no idea. Well, yeah, I had no clue. He said, I'm from out of town. I'm supposed to have the preference. I had to change. I had to buy black ones. I guess that makes sense. If you're from there, you probably have different trunks. If you only brought one pair of trunks, like I'm on the road here. He said $10 for a pair of black trunks. He's upset that he had to spend 10 bucks.

I picture him online at like Target with his hands taped for the fight like ready to go shirtless going I need these now like All I got the saw but can you can you cover the tax? Oh, yeah, open up a line for me and cover my tax would you? So they said while Carter tried to rest and forget in his hotel room the promoter from Honolulu was on the telephone Shouting at Patamato He was promising a motto all kinds of trouble if Carter went through with the Morris fight, booked as he is to fight in Honolulu next week.

Good Christ! Dude, this is insane. He can't fight three fights in a month. He was telling him, don't fight that fight, your fight's going to be shit here. More aggravation it says. So last night at the arena scowling and waiting for the bell, Carter had the look of a desperado. He was going to make Morris pay for all this. Three minutes later without having landed a meaningful punch, Carter was back in his corner and Billy Kahn

from a ringside seat pointed at Morris knowingly. Round two, more and more of the same. Morris jabbed and retreated. Carter plunging after him. Carter missed left hooks and wild rights. If Carter trapped Morris and forced him to trade, Morris would beat him to the punch. Billy Kahn pointed at Morris again, and this time, mouthed the word, easy. Morris fled through the whole fight, keeping Carter at arm's length with his jab. In the ninth round, he was sure he was winning, he executed a little dance step and said to Carter, come on, let's work. Carter rushed Morris into the corner and knocked him down with a right to the jaw.

Don't piss the man off. Don't tell me what to do. He has been in prison a lot. Don't fuck, I will, if I'm mad at you, I'm going to punch you. Morris later on said, boy, was I surprised. Didn't expect that. He was like, oh shit, kicking his ass the whole time. But he bounced up off the floor, not badly hurt and took the mandatory eight count

on his feet. Carter was too weary to catch him again. Again, this is his 19th round in a week and a half again. And Morris, uh, insultingly won the 10th round. I guess he really worked him over. So he said he also won the fight by a split decision. Carter listened to the announcement with glum resignation on his face. In the dressing room he shrugged and said, what can I say? And Pat said, what can he say? Pat Amato. What else do you want from him? What he finally did say was, quote, how are you going to fight when you're the

only one fighting? If the man wanted to do road work, he didn't have to get in the ring well in other words he just ran away from me it's the Delahoya complaint which is true no one wants to watch a guy back pedal for fucking ten rounds it's boring very boring yeah it's very I used to Delahoy is the most boring fighter the most boring like pay-per-view boxer who's ever lived like I will say this and I don't care what it sounds like if he had any different ethnic background He would never have been on pay-per-view because no one would have fucking wanted to watch him because he's so fucking boring But Mexicans are very loyal people. They are

Their loyal. Mayweather did the same shit though. He was annoying as fuck too to watch. Yeah, but everybody at 130 does that Yeah, that's what you expect that those like little tappy weights. No one's knocking anybody out anyway, you know what I mean? So that's more of a strategic thing. Middle weights and in that ballpark, over 140, throw some punches motherfucker, let's do this. Put somebody down, let's go. Yeah. Draw some blood for Christ's sake. Nobody wants to watch two puffy-faced fucks standing

next to a ref waiting for somebody to raise their hand. That's real boring. It's boring. It really is. Especially the lightweight fights, where they're trading blows. And you're like, neither of you can knock the other person out. You just each gave each other your best blow like 17 times in a row.

And you're both standing there. Call the fight right now. And you're both sweaty and pink. And it doesn't even look like you fought. Exactly. It's ridiculous. So he said he didn't have to get in the ring Oh, he fought with his lips all week gonna do this and gonna do that But at the moment of truth, he was scared. So they said when Carter picks up his paycheck

$2,100 of it will be missing He said two years ago. I bought a new car and the car was a bomb They wouldn't fix it up So I gave them the car back and I never heard no more about it until yesterday. Now they're taking $2,100 from me. They want the money for the car. They want the money for the car anyway. So yeah, Ruben is having some fucking problems obviously here. So he's not having a good run of fights and now he has another fight coming up a week later.

Hawaii, yeah. In Hawaii. So not only that, he has to fly from Patterson fucking New Jersey. All the way to LAX and then on to fucking Honolulu. Yeah, and it's seven days after a fight that he had, 10 days after the last fight. So his third fight in 17 days. Bet he wishes he could get some propofol in a cot. Oh my God. Just shit me in a fucking in a box. I get there shot up and I'll just wake up there

Yeah, just put me into a fucking voluntary fucking coma and I'll be fine. Yep. That's it a Michael Jackson coma But short of the full Michael, please. I don't want to Just this side of the full Mikey, please I don't think Just this side of the full Mikey, please. I don't think I could handle that. On the wakey side of the Mikey, if you don't mind. I'd like to wake up eventually, so unlike Mike. So January 25th, 1966, Stan Harrington, this is in Honolulu here, Stan is 59, 16 and 2.

Can we get into it? Going into this fight. A lot of fights. This fight, again, all 10 rounds. Jesus Christ, 30 rounds in a month. 30 rounds in 17 days. Oh boy. Dude. No.

How sore, you can't even tell me he was throwing his hardest punches against this guy. No way. Because his fucking hands have to be so sore from the last two fights. This is ridiculous So biceps chest neck all that where you throw from legs I'll really throw from is is gas and you're fucking away There's any energy no in your head and he was gassed going into the ninth and tenth rounds of the last fight Yeah, it was didn't recover yet So this goes all ten rounds and he loses a unanimous decision and it's so close to 48, 47, 49, 44, 49, 47.

Another month and he would have won. Another month he probably would have beat the guy. This makes him, wow that's brutal. So now he's 26 and 10. Next up he fights Ernest Buford, February 26th. So a month later. It's not like he has a must feel like luxurious, but that's not enough time to train, recover and then train for a fight at all.

36, 15 and 3 he is. This guy by the way will never win another fight. He's 36, 15 and 3. He ends his career 36, 25 and 4. Wow. Oh, 10 and 1 in his career 36-25-4. Wow. 0-10-1 in his last 11 fights. No good. That's a retirement time there.

This fight goes into the eighth round where, this is in Johannesburg again by the way, Orlando Stadium in Johannesburg. Alrighty, it's a knockout for Rubin. So finally gets that 27th win that pesky 27 there and They he it's an American guy. He fought to because the paper over there says Carter K. Oh's fellow yank They want a long way to have a fight. They could have had in their own backyard We could have done this in Patterson, New Jersey for Christ's sake we Could have done this at the Nassau Coliseum out on Long Island.

What are we doing here? So March 8th, 1966, he fights Skeeter again. Skeeter's back. Really? And this is at the sports arena in Toledo. Skeeter was knocked down in the seventh round and because of a mistake in the referee's scorecard, the fight was initially announced as a win for Carter, but then it ends up being a draw after that.

Nobody wins. Nobody wins. It was 45-45, 45-45 and somebody had it 46-45, but there was a mistake in the way they added it up. So it was 45-45 there too. So there we go. March 9th 1966 the next day it says Ruben Carter whips McClure in the paper here. Whoops that's a good one there. Interesting. Fourth ranked middleweight Ruben. How is he fourth ranked? He's just lost a bunch of fights. I don't understand

this. He just keeps going up here. That's crazy. They say that he scored a majority 10th round decision last night. This is before they reversed it days later. So that's crazy they say that he scored a majority 10th round decision last night this is before they reversed it days later so that's pretty funny. May 7th 1966 there's an article here that says what's the funniest thing that has happened in the ring to Patterson's Ruben Carter. Okay he says this quote it's like this I'm fighting Danny Morris out in Pittsburgh. Not too, oh sorry, I lost my spot. I'm fighting Danny Morris in Pittsburgh not too long ago.

For eight rounds, he backpedaled and I chased him all over the ring. Then in the ninth round, we clenched in the center and Danny says, come on man, let's fight. So I belted him one and knocked him down. He got up at the count of nine and he said he continued to run all around the ring. Then the funny thing happened.

He said they gave the decision to Morris. That's the funniest thing that's ever happened to him. That's his that's the way that's his version of comedy. Isn't that funny? He's got to work so much harder. His jokes aren't good. See that takes years guys. This is the point.

Your joke is not there yet. Now June 16th, 1966. Rubin has had quite the year leading up to this so far. A lot of fights, mixed record, he's lost a lot of fights and he needs to party tonight. That's what it is. He's partying tonight and having a good time here on Thursday June 16th. So it's a Thursday night not even a weekend. He spent the day assembling boxing equipment and packing up a rental car which was a 1966 white Dodge Polara with blue and gold New

York plates. Give me that Polara. One of the ugliest dodges that I've built. That's a big, that is not one of the good 60s dodges. There's so many good dodges and Plymouths from the 60s and that is not one of them. Yeah, this may as well be an Imperial, this isn't good. Not good, it's not exactly a satellite or a Challenger or something like that. I might think it was, 300C, I forget the 300s,

but those were also bad cars. Hmm, it doesn't matter. I was wondering if that I forget the 300s, but those were also bad cars. It doesn't matter. I was wondering if they had the wings, because fuck the 60s loved wings on cars, and I don't know why. Still the early 60s, yeah, till we got to the 66s. They were still all winged out.

Yeah, they tried to make them sleeker, less bulky, but winged. But still winged. Chopped down the front and then put a giant ass on her. Well, they were less like bulky They were like, yeah tanks those 50s cars those that you get in one of those It's like a tank and they had so much horsepower that Imperial you could get it going down the road the ass end to get Loose because those wings because those fucking things. Yeah, you could keep that fucker straight. We got a crosswind. Oh shit. There we go So they say that he was scheduled to fight in August in Argentina against Juan Rocky

Rivero and this would be his last chance to get loose before training camps This is the last party night before it's time to buckle down. Here we go So they said Carter's boxing career had suddenly reached a plateau after four years of success Carter lost a 1964 fight for the middleweight title He would win only seven of his next 14 fights, losing six and tying one. But Monday, he planned to be at a former sheep farm in Chatham, where he would begin the harsh physical regimen of running, weightlifting, and boxing that he would need to put his career back on track. He's going to do Rocky IV, basically. Training at a sheep farm?

Sheep farm, he's going to get a log and run up a mountain. He's going to do all that shit. Hang from the... Chase the sheep. Do sit ups hanging from the fucking second floor of the rafters of the barn and all that kind of shit. So that's what he's going to do. From the hayloft. Carter had dinner at his Patterson home with his wife at about 5pm. Oh, it's an early dinner. Look at him.

Yeah. Then put on an outfit that would surely attract attention. Black pants, red vest, and white sport coat. With his shaved head and bushy goatee, he grew that back. That's nice. He was one of the most recognizable residents of Patterson. Artists, this is John Artis, is another person. John Artis was looking to have a good time.

Two years earlier, June 17th, 1964, he graduated from Patterson Central High School with an offer of a track scholarship to Adams College in Colorado. One of his best friends was also headed to Adams to play football. Sounds promising, right? Maybe we'll do an episode on him. Probably not. But only five weeks after graduation, artist's mother died of kidney disease. Oh no. That's tough. Artis, an only child, remembers being devastated. It was pretty difficult.

My father and I were trying to regroup. Artis put off college and got a job driving a truck for a local food delivery. He played semi-pro football with the Patterson Panthers and kept in shape. But most nights, he headed for a club where he could show off his dancing skills. He says quote, my nickname was dancing boy. Boy, did they dig deep. Jesus. I was going to say that as somebody really, Hey, look at dancing boy. Oh, that sounds like an insult from a drunk guy. Look at dancing boy over there. I think he's all fucking fancy that. Hey, dancing boy. Why don't you dance on over here you fucking you a homo huh dance on over here suck my balls dancing boy yeah

cock right in your ass dancing boy that's a cock dancing all around your face right now dancing boy dancing boy but that is the worst nickname we've ever heard. So bad. Jesus Christ. By 1966, he felt he was ready to try college. My mom only got to the third grade, he said. Wow. Jesus Christ.

What did she get? The third grade. Well, she's dead, so there, so not much. Maybe reading at tops at this point. That is incredible. Not long division, I'll tell you that much. No, no.

I would say that. Teach that for a while. Calculus ain't it. No, no, no, no. So if my mom only got to the third grade and my dad only had made it to the ninth grade, I would be the first to go to college. Sounds like you'd be the first to go to high school, is what it sounds like. Never mind fucking around. You're the first person in the house that can find the value of X to college sounds like you'd be the first to go to high school is what it sounds like nevermind The first person the house that can find the value of X. I'll tell you that I'm the first sophomore this house has ever seen The value of X so It says plus artists was worried about being drafted into the army

This is 1966 mind you if you you can go to college, you fucking go. In the 60s period. It's either there or over there. You pick. That's all there was. It's a pretty easy choice. It is being sent to Vietnam. There's this book, Hunter Thompson book with all his letters and he writes, he has a younger brother who's like 18, 19 during this time and he wants to drop out of school and he's like, I know you're not getting anything out of college and it's not what you wanna do, doesn't matter, hide out there till this war is over.

He said, do enough to pass, do enough to not get kicked out of fucking school and stay there, who gives a shit? It doesn't matter, it's just fucking. It's better than a jungle, man. Yeah, he said it's better than going to Vietnam. You ever heard it's a jungle out there? It's literally a jungle than a jungle man. Yeah, it's better than going to Vietnam. You ever heard it's a jungle out there It's literally a jungle out there literally So he said he didn't want to get sent to Vietnam

He had recently lost his student deferment and had been reclassified as 1a for the draft Which is ready to be drafted Yeah If he went to college he wouldn't be drafted on On the night of June 16th, Artis put on a light blue mohair sweater with his initials monogrammed on the breast. Oh that is some hot 60s shit right there. Mohair with your initials on it? Yeah.

Wow. That is very nice. Who are we? You're getting some pussy with that. That is something boy. Light blue pants and gold suede loafers. Yeah, he's a fashion plate. Gold? Who is this motherfucker? light blue suede, or light blue pants and gold suede loafers. Yeah, he's a fashion plate.

Gold? Who is this motherfucker? A fashion plate is what he is. This motherfucker, light blue mohair monogram, light blue pants, gold suede poppin' loafers, baby. Fascinating. That way he knew what Michael Jackson knew, but it took Michael Jackson til the 80s to figure it out

is that make people look at your feet when you're dancing. That's why Michael Jackson rolled his socks up, rolled his shoes up and had the stupid white socks and the black shoes. It was so, what did I say? Rolled his shoes up. He rolled his shoes up. I did smoke a lot before this episode. He rolled up his shoes.

No, he rolled up his pants so the white socks would pop against the black shoes so you'd look at his feet. Because that's what he wants you to look at because that's what's doing all the motion. So that's what he's trying to do. Or that sparkly ass glove. Yeah, that's a distraction. Don't look at my feet now. I'll look over here.

So they said Carter and Artis, a decade apart in age, knew each other. Both acknowledged that, but both say they did not know each other well. Prosecutors however say the two had spent considerable time together before June 16th. I don't know where or when if one guy doesn't seem like... One's been boxing like crazy. One's been yeah he's been pretty busy and this other guy's been in the same place just dancing. He's just a dancing boy over here so yeah it's odd. Patterson's current mayor Marty Barnes, who knew Carter and artists in the 60s, said the two didn't really hang together. Of artists, Barnes said, I always called him a wannabe. He's a little too young.

He's only like 20 years old here. So he's not like one of the hardened, you know, tough guys in the neighborhood. By 1966, Carter was well known in Patterson and not just as a boxer. Like many black athletes, he had begun to speak out on race relations. In 1963, Carter went to Washington, D.C. to demonstrate for civil rights and to hear Martin Luther King Jr.'s I Have a Dream speech. That's fucking cool. By 65, however, Carter opted not to march with King in Selma, Alabama because he feared he couldn't adhere to King's strategy of nonviolence.

Not that he didn't believe in the cause, he's just like, I will punch a redneck in the throat. I swear to fuck. You commit me with a hose, I'm fucking you up. Oh, you turn on a hose, if I hear a dog bark, I'll kick the shit out of it. Oh, I swear to God, yeah. And whoever's holding it motherfucker.

This isn't three skilled combatants in the course of a month. You get me some fat sheriff I'll beat his fat ass into the fucking hot Alabama asphalt tomorrow. He grabs that pistol it's going to be up his ass. No shit. So yeah he said perhaps most controversial however was a 1964 profile of Carter in the Saturday Evening Post, which was a big deal. That's Norman Rockwell's.

All of his pictures are on the covers of those just before his middleweight title fight. Among other things, Carter reportedly suggested to a friend that they, quote, get guns and go up there and get us some of those police. Okay. Patterson police would remember that. So he's saying that the Patterson, Patterson has it in for him is what he's saying. The Patterson police. He certainly well knows he said some crazy shit in them, like one of the highest circulating things in the nation at that point. Huge. That's a giant thing. We don't even have anything that has that circulation nowadays. It's not, not even a thing that's a giant thing. We don't even have anything that has that circulation nowadays. It's not not even a thing that's possible

It would have to be something Some newspaper article on online that but now that goes anywhere now Yeah, this was this was this Saturday evening post came into like 40 million homes or some crazy shit 30 million homes It was and it was a coffee table thing. It was yes It was everywhere, yes. It was everywhere you went. You looked like a normal person if you had that sitting on your car.

Oh, look at this motherfucker. You had that, you had reader's digest, you had like life or whatever. That's what people ordered and had out there. So they said on the night of June 16th, 1966, after watching television with his daughter, Carter decided to go out for the night. He went to a bar called The Night Spot, NITE,

and met an ex-sparring partner who Carter believed had stolen three guns from his last training camp. Why did he have three guns at training camp? Why do you need that? What do you need guns for? You're learning how to, you're literally there to punch better, the guns aren't gonna help you. And why are they there and available to be stolen?

Yeah, so I mean, why even have, I guess, if you want to go out afterwards, I don't fucking know. Carter took the man to look for the guns, but he could not find them nor confirm that the man had stolen from him. Sometime between 2 and 2.30 AM, Carter and artists found themselves together at the night spot. Maybe just comparing dope ass outfits. I think maybe that's what it was. They were like, yo, those shoes are the shit. He's like, yeah, but fuck that. Your red vest is, yo, that's on.

See that on my chest? Those are my initials. Yeah. Oh, in the mohair? You slick motherfucker. You dancing boy motherfucker. So yeah, they said that, artists said he needed a ride home and remembers Carter telling him he had to earn his ride. Meaning that artists would have to drive Carter home too. Okay. Okay. Artists recalled that he nodded.

Carter flipped him the keys to his white Dodge. He said, here, you're less drunk than me, apparently. Hell yeah. You roll the Polaris. Go ahead. Earlier in the evening, two African American men had entered the Lafayette Grill through the side door. One of the men carried a shotgun and immediately killed the bartender. The other man, who was carrying a pistol, killed a patron at the bar and wounded another man and woman.

Oh my God. Okay, so this is from North Jersey.com from 2019. They're talking about this. Two men nursed drinks as they sat on bar stools, this is describing the scene of the bar shooting, on the wall above the bar surrounded by musical note decorations, a framed portrait of President John F. Kennedy. This is the 60s, remember?

Beneath Kennedy, after he was president, but still, beneath Kennedy's photo set a clock designed to look like a large pocket watch. Beneath that, the crime scene photos show a shelf with three white rose whiskey bottles nestled among, amid a cluster of gins, vodkas, and other spirits. To the right of the two men sat a lone woman

who got off work earlier than usual that night from her waitress job at A country club the day before she had managed some free time to go shopping with her pregnant daughter for baby furniture. Okay On this night She should stopped at the bar on the way to the her Hawthorne home to drop off a deposit for a trip to Atlantic City later in the summer Stopped at the bar on her way home to drop off a deposit. I guess she was dropping off the deposit at home, not at the bar, because that would be weird. I don't know.

Yeah, getting a drink before she goes to put that money away. The woman's daughter said it was prom season, so she usually worked late because it's a country club, if that makes sense. She thought she was having an easier night, I guess. Behind the counter, a cash register and a sign that announced Budweiser on tap, the bartender counted the day's receipts. Yeah, it's a typical closing of a bar, guys, counting receipts, doing all that. Perhaps bartender Jim Oliver recognized the killers when they came through the front door from 18th Street. Maybe he just saw their guns and knew trouble was coming. Whatever his thoughts at that fearsome moment, police say, one of Oliver's last acts of life was to hurl an empty beer bottle at the killers, which is a terrible weapon against

shotguns. The bottle smashed against the wall by the door. As Oliver turned to run the length of the bar past the ice cooler and toward the overhead television set, a single shotgun blast from about seven feet away tore into his lower back, the 12 gauge round ripping open a two inch by one inch hole and severing a spinal column. That'll happen. Oliver died instantly, police say.

He was 51 and had volunteered to 10 bar that night because his girlfriend, a widow named Betty Panagia, who owned the Lafayette and lived in Saddlebrook, had been putting in long hours as Oliver recovered from a recent hernia operation. You take the night off tonight, sweetie. I'll do it. As Oliver fell, a $10 bill and four or five dollar bills scattered on the floor. Thirty dollars, that is.

Jesus. The cash register drawer remained open. Next to, that was Fred Nayox, N-A-U-Y-O-K-S. The killer with the pistol shot him. So shotgun shot the one guy over here. Nayox, a 60 year old machinist who had stopped by after working at a local factory before heading to his Cedar Grove home, typically stopping for a fucking taste after a long

day at the factory there, took a.32 caliber bullet just behind his right ear. Jesus. The slug plowed into his brain stem, killing him instantly, autopsy records say. Everybody died instantly somehow here. That's lucky. I guess so. Niox was well known in the area as a billiard player, and his relatives remember that he went by two nicknames.

I love these 60s nicknames. Shootin' Boy? Patterson Bob, which again, not a, and what, billiard boy? No. And Cedar Grove Bob. So just places he was around and he worked there, lived there, unbelievable. You moved, where'd you move to?

Cedar Grove, well, Cedar Grove Bob. Everybody, Bob moved to Cedar Grove just so. I don't know why we're giving people from Patterson, New Jersey that accent, by the way. At all. Bob moved to fucking Cedar Grove, hey. Fucking Cedar Grove Bob. Oh Fucking Cedar Grove, Bob! Oh, Cedar Grove now!

What the fuck's wrong with you with this baddison bullshit? You ain't seen him move. Jesus, you ignorant fuck. So, yeah, he says that night the Niox wife was in Michigan visiting relatives. The next day when she arrived home and was told of her husband's killing, grandson Tom Vietche Domini remembers that she walked silently upstairs and donned a black dress. Oh! What? She went to go get into her fucking cemetery robe right out of the gate? Morning. She's in mourning. That's it. Done. She's doing this old school. And the Italian way,

if she's Italian like her clearly her grandson is That they go right into the black and stay in it for about six months a year. It's no joke I'm not even kidding. That's not a joke right into the black fucking shades drawn. I'm sorry the whole deal, bro It's a it's bad So when death or with death arriving instantly Nayak slumped on the bar, seemingly asleep, a cigarette still burning between his fingers when police arrived. Wow. That's creepy.

A dead man smoking. I don't like that. Dead men don't smoke is the name of that. That's... Like a corpse with its eyes open. I don't like either of those things. Oh, no, no. Close them.

Close them up. I don't like that either. That's one flaw of nature Design flaw when we die our eyes should automatically close shut and we shouldn't shit ourselves either that'd be excellent If there's any God That's how I know there is a flaw right there. There's a there's a there's a God. All right, then why do we shit when we die? Why do we shit and have our eyes open when we die? What's that for? No, why do we lose all dignity when we die? That is proof if there was a God God would have his creatures die with dignity Yeah, we would die with all of our excrement inside of us eyes closed

Reabsorb it. Yeah to be to be more pleasant to the fucking people who found us, but now So, um, wow, wow, that's wild. So, there was still a burning cigarette, his shot glass still standing on the bar next to cash to pay for his drink. He still had that up there. Oh, he's got that just sitting up there. Yep, his right stool still,

his right foot still propped on the chrome leg of his bar stool. Seated two stools away, Willie Marins, 42, also a machinist, had been battling numerous health problems, including tuberculosis. Is this 1866? What year is this? Jesus Christ. This man has just resigned to dying.

He's just in a bar smoking and drinking and he's got TB. He doesn't give a shit in Patterson, New Jersey. Yeah, Doc Holliday over here. The Lafayette even kept a special glass for Marins to drink from so he would not spread tuberculosis to the other co- What? Get the TB cup, he's here.

Go, get the disease cup, come on. Get the lunger glass, bring it over. Who's got the lunger shots? There we go. Wow, Marins, who lived in nearby Patterson, was also shot in the head by the man with the pistol. But he was lucky. The 32 slug hit him in the left temple

and passed through his forehead near his right eye without killing him. Oh yeah, he's real lucky. Really? Add this to the other tuberculosis and everything else. He's a real fucking spectacle now. He's super lucky Everything's going fucking swimmingly for this guy

I'd say he has the worst luck of anybody in this place. His nickname is Lucky Willie. That's his nickname It's called Lucky Willie Fucking curse it I would say. Wow cursed Willie. He's got all this wrong with him and he's the one that lives. Now he's a freak of nature also with a hole in his face. This is horrible. Continues suffering Willie. He's only 42 with all this problem too. He's like please God let me go already.

Fuck 30 more years of this? No. Poor bastard. Fuck. He stumbled to the floor and he later said, played dead. So yeah, I mean he looks dead to all that gunshot. You shoot someone in the temple, you go, all right, dead. Well, they misquoted him.

They thought he said played for dead, but he prayed for dead. He prayed for dead. I sat down and I said, please, God, let brain come out of this wound. Just fucking take me. He felt the bullet enter his temple. He said, please God, let brain come out of this wound. Take me. He felt the bullet enter his temple. He said, ah, sweet relief. And then.

Sweet relief. Who woke up five seconds later and said, oh, God, no. No. I'm still in his earthly body. Fuck. Merciful, my ass. Merciful. Fuck. He's a mess. Merciful my ass! Merciful! Fuck!

Fuck! He's a mess. Was there a crime committed? As far as I'm concerned there wasn't. Guilty by Design dives into the wild story of Alexander and Frank, interior designers who in the 80s landed the jackpot of all clients. We went to bed one night and the next morning we woke up as one of the most wanted people in the United States.

What are they guilty of? You can listen to Guilty by Design exclusively and ad free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.

No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem, or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here.

Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. He's a mess so he stumbled to the floor, plays dead.

He would lose the use of his right eye. course he'd won. Who gives a shit? Now I can't breathe they got no depth perception things are going great for me. I got half my breath half my sight oh boy unbelievable they call him 50% Willie. Fitty Willie over here the original Fitty there he is He's like oh you got shot a few times. I got no I can't breathe Punk ass Curtis fuck you Curtis I'm a call you Curtis from now on yeah, oh My god, holy shit he could still describe the killers to police despite losing the use of his right eye. By the way, he'll die in 1973 of totally unrelated causes to the shooting and everything else. Hit by a bus?

What a bus. A hawk came and swooped down and grabbed him and took him to his nest and dismembered him. It was horrible. And ate the other half of him. Jesus. It's insanity how much was wrong with this guy. The woman was the killer's final target. And for her court records indicate, one of the gunmen finally spoke.

As the others were shot, Hazel Tanis, 56, a waitress at Westmount Country Club, the one we discussed before, in West Patterson, was trying to hide near the front door. Oh boy. She was like, I'm part of the dartboard, I don't know. No, she cried according to trial testimony from a witness in an upstairs apartment who heard a woman scream as the man with the shotgun fired a final blast into her upper right arm and shoulder. Finish her off, the man with the shotgun reportedly told his partner. As Tana slumped to the floor, the man with the.32 caliber pistol fired five shots at

her from as close as 10 inches, hitting her four times. In the right breast, the lower abdomen, the vagina and genital area. What is that? Why is he shooting women in the pussy? That seems on purpose. That feels like she's the one they were trying to kill. In the tit and then lit up her vagina? Because it seems like lower abdomen they just missed the vagina then shot her in the pussy and then shot her like lower than that a little. What is that? That is fucking that seems like that's what they're mad at. Miraculously Tanis would sort

of would struggle to live another month before finally succumbing to an embolism. Good Lord, this poor woman and her... Let me die Lord, please. Who does she think she is, Willie? Yeah, running around like Livia Soprano going, let the Lord take me now. Fucking, oh my God, she took a shotgun blast in 432s. Five, four, four, yeah. They missed one, yeah.

They missed one, yeah. She apparently, they said, but during that time she would give police a description of the killers, says her daughter, would tell in detail how she tried to beg for her life. Her daughter said, Barbara Burns is her daughter, said, her mom said, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother, please don't shoot me. That's what her mother told her in the hospital that she said. The daughter would later insist that her mother picked out mug shots of Carter and artists explaining, you don't look a man in the eyes and plead for your life and forget what he looks like. Well, actually you do, is the unfortunate part. That's the unfortunate part is you actually, the least reliable thing

for anything is memory. It's terrible. Your memory, even though you see it perfect, it's not like that. It's your brain plays tricks on you. You don't, eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable thing on earth. It's terrible. Unless you know the person, strangers do not identify other strangers well. It's just the way it works. And if you see someone who looks like that person, good enough. Unless they're like mad specific.

Yeah, he had his initials in blue mohair would be like something that you- Half his face was burned. Yes, yes. That guy stands out. Something like that, yeah, totally. Wearing a hockey mask, I noticed that kind of shit. Things of that nature.

That night, cops surmised that killers only needed a minute, maybe less, to unleash their fusilade on all the victims. Yeah, that's not, it doesn't take long to do all that. Left behind, according to the original police report, was $72 in Nyuk's wallet, $51 in Tanis' white purse, $30 on the floor, we told you before, those previous bills by Oliver's body, and cash in the register appeared to be untouched. Police discovered months late that someone but not the killers removed cash from the register.

So some cop came in during the grind, he was like, I'll take that. So this is not a robbery. So that's the thing. That's very obvious. It's very, there's cash on the floor and in an open register drawer. It's literally not open unlocked, open like you can just grab the cash as you walk by and keep going. Would be, it's harder to avoid it.

And somebody's shot in an incredibly personal manner. And everybody else was one shot, get them out of the way. Boom, boom, boom, this lady's getting it all. Which seems, does she have an ex-husband or something? Very personal manner. I would definitely look at an ex-boyfriend, an ex-husband, something of that nature. Right away would be my thing. Who'd she piss off?

Yeah, if I looked at this whole scene I'd go, why all this with her? What the fuck? Somebody's mad So that's interesting in a house a block away the phone rang Finally home after a long day a Patterson police detective with a name that bespoke a humorous irony for his profession Picked up the receiver. His name is Jim Lawless. Oh Boy, it was headquarters recalled lawless There he said they told me there was a shooting.

I grabbed two guns and ran out the door. I got two guns. One for each of ya. He's so sleepy, he's seeing double right now. I better bring two. I better bring two. Armed with his.357 Magnum service revolver, Jesus, and a nine millimeter semi-automatic pistol in case I

need 15 in the clip and one in the chamber. Case these six don't do the job, I got 17 over here. Case these six hand cannon shells don't do it. Might need volume. He stepped through the front door of the Lafayette Grill only minutes later, not knowing what he might confront. The lights were on, he recalls. Near one end of the bar, he remembers hearing Tannis groan in pain as she was still alive.

Gazing across the room past the pool table, Lawless noticed naiacs and marrins. Pools of blood dotted the linoleum. At naiacs' feet sat a spent shotgun shell. Lawless said it was like a slaughterhouse. Well yeah, there's fucking blood everywhere. It's a small bar. Before he had time to check behind the bar, Lawless heard the sirens of the approaching police cruisers

and an ambulance. Indeed, the scene was so gruesome that an ambulance technician would later testify that he slipped on the bloody floor. Wow. Which is some Keystone Cop shit there, I would say. Whoop, whoop, whoop. They don't train you to avoid that shit?

If you're there, somebody's hurt. They might be leaking. Be careful. Yeah, be careful. That's the thing, though, but you shouldn't ever be stepping in blood. Right. Like, that's not a good thing. You shouldn't be smearing that around.

That's part of the evidence, man. That's a big thing, and they said in this article, but the technician's testimony underscores a fact that has since come to hover over the killings. Cops were so lax in securing the crime scene that they were never able to detect where the killers might have left footprints in the blood as they departed. They let everybody walk all over this fucking place. To the point where- We don't know whose footprints are in this blood

No, we don't know who's footprints, and we don't know who took the cash out of the register We don't know anything these people they fucked it all up. It's just a mess here That's that's goddamn fucking terrible honestly. That's Pathetic a big city yeah, I mean close to a big city, so they said what's more police never took fingerprints at the crime scene. What? I guess it's a bar there's lots of fingerprints. They never photographed tire skid marks from the getaway car even though witnesses said

they watched a car screech away and make those fucking tire marks. So you can Mona Lisa Vito can't even help out over here. And never took fingerprints from the spent shotgun shell that was found on the floor, which is the first fucking place you'd go for fingerprints because unless the person's smart and knows to put gloves on when they load the gun, they'll probably, they've just loaded it up and shot.

And even if you're not, I mean, who thinks of that unless you're putting those in to go commiters crime. You know what I mean? Yeah, murderers think of that But unless you're gonna murder someone right if something pops off and you happen to have your gun in your trunk and you're so Keyed up you don't even think about it and you go grab it your your shells have your fingerprints all over All over it's exactly because you're not planning on murdering no But if you go when this falls, I don't want the cops to know it came from me, you put gloves on.

That's a problem. I may as well have licked these motherfuckers. Yeah, yeah. Jimmy's just jizzes all over the boxes. That's what he does. Fuck it. DNA, prints, put it all on there. I really want you to solve this crime.

Solve it, everyone. I can't believe they didn't take fingerprints. That's amazing. That's remarkably inept police fingerprints. That's amazing. That's amazing. Remarkably inept police work. That's terrible. That's, that's like some episodes of small town murder level. There's some episodes where we're like the mayor's here now traipsing about the crime scene stepping on shit.

What's that like stuff like that? This is so bad. So Richard Caruso, a former old Dicky Caruso over here, a former Essex County Sheriff's Detective who was part of the team of investigators assigned by the Passaic County Prosecutor's Office to re-examine the killings later in 1975 said, there was something really wrong. What's wrong with the physical evidence?

How come they didn't take the fingerprints? Like what's going on here? Caruso, now a lawyer in Brick Township and one of several members of the team who raised questions about the original police investigation, said he was eventually reassigned to cleaning up a file room. I guess because he was asking questions about this and too many questions. Get out of here.

In an interview, he said prosecutors and police not only stonewalled attempts to reexamine the case with a fresh eye, but deliberately manipulated evidence. And that's the thing about an eyewitness thing is, you remember on the wire when Kima was in the hospital? Yeah. When Kima got shot, end of season one, right? Okay, detective, she's in the hospital. Now, the cops know who the fucking shooters are,

because they know who was there, because they got fingerprints off a can and all this shit, but they have a line-up card, and they need her to pick out the fucking shooters and she says, fucking one guy right there, which was big man. He's going down that guy. And then they said, and then bunk is tapping Wee Bay, going, he's the other guy. And she goes, I didn't see him. I didn't see him. I didn't see him. And he's like, we know it's him. And she's like, I didn't see him. I didn't see him. I didn't see him and he's like we know it's him And she's like I didn't see him you had to see him If you're in the see him if you're in the hospital And there's a cop with a finger by the thing and he's going like this and looking at you and you're going and we're both

On the same side here trying to find the person who did this to me you might go. Yeah, that's the one sure Then once you've said it you can't say it's not stick with it. Yeah Stay there. That's the problem too. And especially in the 60s, nothing's on camera, so these guys, they would do a lot of dirty tricks like that. And sometimes it was just to expedite police work that there was no way to fix. We know we did something else we can't put them on.

Yes. We'll get them on this for sure. Exactly. So sometimes it was for what they thought was a good reason, but we know now that there's never a good reason to, to manipulate evidence. Falsify documents. Yeah. The police believed, they said that the killing was an act of racial retaliation for the murder of an African-American bartender by a white man

earlier in the evening. So somehow these two guys didn't know each other too well, spent the whole night dancing, just cutting a rug, having a good fucking time, and then they were like, yeah they were like you know the black guy that was killed. After I'm done dancing I got that out of my system. Now I'm really, I have a murderous rage, which is a very strange thing to fucking do. During the search for the two gunmen, Carter, Artis, and Royster, were stopped by the police. One of the policemen knew Carter, and the three men were released almost immediately.

They were like, oh, that's fucking Hurricane. I know that guy. Carter stopped home, picked up more money, and the trio set out again. After driving around for a while, finding like nowhere open to hang out, they decided to call it a night. Artists dropped off Royster first and then on the way to Carter's house, the police stopped the car, again. Now they've been stopped twice. This time the police acted very differently. Carter and artists were taken to the Lafayette Grill and put up against the wall while the car was searched. They were taken to the crime scene for some reason. Interesting.

Then they were taken to the hospital. Okay. The police showed Carter and Artis to one of the shooting victims who told police neither man had shot him. Okay, so the living guy, tuberculosis boy there, he said, don't know these guys, those aren't the guys who shot me. Then the two men were taken to the police department and held for 16 hours. One guy is incredibly identifiable. Super, just the

goatee and the bald head. Yeah. You'd know if it was that guy. And the other guys got on bright gold shoes. And Ruben has a bright red vest against a white sport coat. That pops so hard. Now number one, is there any blood on any of these guys? Because it sounds like- The shotgun spills and splashes. It splashes a lot and it seems like number one, it'd at least be on be on your shoes and number two there'd be spatter on you from that close. If you're

seven feet away and blast someone with a shotgun in the fucking back you are getting blood spatter on your white dinner jacket. Sorry. Ten inches with a handgun in the belly you're getting blood on you. There's blood on you. There's gonna be fucking blood and none of these people have blood on them. They're saying oh they changed now after that So now they've been taken to the hospital. I have no positive ID as a matter of fact a negative ID They made I don't know these people then they were taken to the police department held for 16 hours questioned repeatedly Yeah, both given polygraph tests and passed the lie detector test both people

Not I witnessed, not me, polygraph test, both passed, they're released. Psychopaths, if they can pass this shit, they are so cold. Number one, the witness said not the guys, so they should have went home then, but whatever, let's make sure. Yeah, he's a lunger, we don't know. Yeah, it's a real good disguise. So it's fucking crazy that that happened. June 17th, 1966. The newspaper is hair on fire over this thing. They said, think gunman had planned holdup try. That's the headline here. Ruben Carter boxer unidentified friend held for questioning two persons were slain and two critically wounded early this morning in an apparent

Hold-up attempt at the Lafayette Grill 428 East 18th Street police. That's I mean, there's no money taken no evidence of that It's not like they were fought off. They killed killed or mortally wounded everybody in there You know seriously wounded everybody in there if they wanted the money they could have taken it all it's not failed for shit It was upwards of $300 in there. Exactly, that's a lot of money back then. It's like three grand now. That's a lot of money. So they said that they shot everyone

in an apparent attempt to leave no witnesses. Police are questioning Ruben Hurricane Carter and an unidentified companion in connection with the shooting. The debtor, George Oliver, the bartender, Fred Noyox, as we said, William Marins, and Miss Hazel Tennes are holding on in critical condition. Wow, I mean, I don't even know what the fuck, man.

This is interesting. They said, according to police, by the way, back then in 66, they describe her wounds as shots to the stomach, not the vagina, which is more accurate. Smidge lower. Smidge lower. According to police, the two men walked into the tavern at approximately 2 30 a.m. and opened fire. The detective here, Joseph Rafferty, said the cash register had been rifled. Several bills were found on the tavern floor nearby. Police were alerted to the shootings by the upstairs tenant who lived in the apartment

above the joint at 234. They left in a white sedan. Minutes after police arrived, neighbors reported seeing two well-dressed Negro men fleeing from the tavern and leaving the scene in a white sedan. Carter and his companion were stopped nearby shortly afterwards in a white sedan, according to police. There were no white cars on the road. There were reportedly no weapons in the car and they were held for questioning.

No weapons in the car. Yeah. Marenz was lying on the floor at the rear of the tavern, unconscious, and Ms. Tanis was on the floor midway between him and the bar. Police believe she was seated at the end of the bar and stumbled a few steps before falling. Her purse and sweater were found at the bar. Okay, so according to police, neighbors reported hearing what sounded like five shots. They talk about the tavern owner, the bodies of Oliver and Nyeux were removed to the Raguichi funeral home.

The Raguichi. Bring them to the Raguichi's. Get them out of here. Let's go. He's going to the ragucci's house over here. In his second floor apartment on Keene Street, Marin's 76 year old father spoke shakily of his son shooting. The police came to tell me sometime early this morning, I just got back a little while ago from the hospital. I saw my son but he just came from the operating table and they told me to come back later to let him rest. The doctor told me he was shot in the head and may lose one eye. He was shot right near the eye according to the elder Marins.

Holy shit. There's just me and him here. We live alone. He never married because he was not in good health. He said he used to work at a plastic company in a machine shop. And he said another son, Jules, lives in Fairlawn and has a married daughter, whatever. Okay. The neighbors said that Miss Tanis worked as a waitress, but they didn't know where. She said there's a son of hers in the Navy.

Is Rusty still in the Navy? It made me think of that for some reason. So there's an article, Police Search for guns used in bar slayings. That's important. Yeah, all you've got is two black guys in a white car. That ain't good enough, man. It's not good enough for a conviction here. Mayor Frank X.

Graves, who was on the scene of the shooting shortly after 10 a.m. along with acting chief Marinus Ryder and a number of motorcycle policemen. The police were detailed searching the area for guns used in the shooting and other city employees had began to look in sewer drains and storm drains too. Mayor Graves and Ryder were closeted in the bar. Oh, I'm sorry. Guys, blow each other right in the middle of the bar. It's okay now.

You can come out. Don't worry. We won't tell your wives. We will not tell either of the bar. It's okay now. You can come out. Don't worry. We won't tell your wives. We will not tell either of your wives. Maybe you should someday, but not now. It was closeted in the bar with detectives incurring the ire of New York Press photographers who charged that there was a lack of cooperation from authorities. The photographer said, I always used to get cooperation from your department. Why are they acting this way today? He said he wanted to take a picture of the interior of the tavern. Graves said the tavern had been secured to preserve evidence. Graves said that among possibilities being

explored by police is the theory that maybe a bottle was thrown at the two gunmen, perhaps provoking the attack. A neighbor pointed out where one of the bullets had smashed through the bar window and embedded itself in the siding of her house across the attack. A neighbor pointed out where one of the bullets had smashed through the bar window and embedded itself in the siding of her house across the street. So there's your missed shot right there. Across the street, Danny Casapula, Jesus, hey Danny! Owned an Italian neighborhood. This is a good Italian neighborhood over here. Owner of a service station said Mrs. Tanis' son had picked up his mother's car earlier today at her Hawthorne address.

A neighbor said that he knew very little about Mrs. Tannis except that she had a son in the Navy now on leave and a married daughter. Mrs. Tannis's door was locked but inside the phone rang incessantly. Yeah, because you keep calling her. Leave her alone. Yeah, no shit. Let her alone. No shit, let her be. Casapula said that Oliver, Jimmy as he was known in the neighborhood, was a very quiet man. Really one of the nicest men you'd want

to meet. He was a widower with at least one son who lives in California I think. His wife was the widower, not him. His mother lives in Pennsylvania and I think his family is wealthy for he never had to worry about money. This is just gossip from the neighborhood. Looking at him, I put together that he's probably a widow with a lot of money. He's done all right. He's done all right for himself here. So the Daily News says, late yesterday, police were questioning Ruben Carter and a second

man about the shootings which occurred. No charges were placed against either man. Now, minutes after Carter was let go from the police station, after 16 hours of questioning and a negative ID and everything else, the same officers solicited a description of the getaway car from two eyewitnesses outside the bar, Patty Valentine and Alfred Bello. Okay, the next day, the assistant county prosecutor denied that Carter had ever been a suspect Believing that the matter was settled Carter left for Argentina to fight his next bout. It's like you let me go The fucking prosecutor said I'm not us. Yeah, but that's where he's fighting. That's what was his plans though

He's got a job there. It's not like this was booked before. It's not like I'm leaving. Exactly. It's not like he went to the airport sweaty and was like one ticket to Argentina, please. Looking behind him over both shoulders like one ticket to Argentina. I guess that sounds far. That's the next one. That's it. Yeah. Bello later admitted that he was in the area acting as a lookout while an accomplice, Arthur Bradley, broke into a nearby warehouse. Okay. That's what he was doing outside. That's why he saw this. So it wasn't being innocent, just hanging out with his girlfriend. He's a fucking criminal. Um,

at the time he claimed to have discovered the bodies when he entered the bar to buy cigarettes. It also transpired that he took the opportunity to empty the cash register and encountered the police as he exited. They caught this guy leaving the fucking crime scene with money in his hand. He's looking as a lookout. He stumbles onto an already over murder scene and he's like, well, let's just see if there's anything for me in here. And then, yeah, and the police catch him walking out and they they're gonna believe his story. Wow. Okay at the trial later on he'll later testify that he was approaching the Lafayette when

two black males one with a shotgun the other with a pistol came around the corner and I'm sure the police sat him down and said so you didn't see two black guys coming out with guns I saw two black guys come did one one of like shotgun and one of a pistol or they both have saw two black guys come did one one of like shotgun and one of a pistol or they both have pistols or what is it? Oh, one of the shotgun one of the pistol. So they cross one's belly button. Did it say ever last? Did you see that at all? No, fuck. He ran from them and they got into a white car that was double parked near the Lafayette who double parks during a robbery robbery? Yeah, those people didn't go in there for just a drink. That was a fucking hit, man.

This is, yeah, this is... You double park when you're getting right back in the car. Yes, exactly. When you run in, run out. Valentine lived above the bar and heard the shots. He's the one who reported it. The girlfriend of the guy. They reported seeing a white car with two black guys in it. So like Bello, she reported seeing two black men of the guy. They reported seeing a white car with two black guys in it. So like Bello, she reported seeing two black men leave the bar getting a white car. They reportedly described it as white with a geometric design, sort of a butterfly type design

on the back of the car and New York State license plates, blue background and orange lettering. Another neighbor, Ronald Rogerio, Ronnie Rogerio over here, he also heard the shots and said that from his window he saw Alfred Bello running west on Lafayette Street towards 16th Street. Then he heard the screech of tires and saw a white car shoot past heading west with two black males in the front seat. Okay. So July 19th 1966. Back to boxing quick here.

Rubin asks for a shot at Emil Griffith's title because he's got it back here. They issued a challenge to Griffith to fight. Carmen Tedeschi is back again by the way. Why do you have this guy in his astrology as your fucking manager? He said I'll put up any guarantee they want to get a fight with Griffith as long as the stars are lined up. July 21st 1966 yeah they're all together there's an article together again. Him and Carmen Tedeschi as former manager who went their separate ways after a rift have patched up their differences and amicably are together again. That is fucking hilarious. Tadeshi, the Saddlebrook construction man,

steered Carter from preliminary punching ranks to international pugilistic prominence as Rubin chalked up a series of exciting victories. This guy wanted to be an author and it didn't work out. He's like Chevy Chase in Funny Farm. He's about to go out to the middle of nowhere and write his novel Then on the threshold of a shot at the championship Carter and Tadashi had quite a falling out and he left his manager The boxer sought out Pat Amato of Bayonne and they signed a boxer manager Contract Amato and Carter came to the parting of the ways and the boxer was successful in having his previous pilot again taking over his managerial reins.

Now Tadashi's back in the familiar role, shouting that Rubin is the best middleweight in the world. He has to get another shot at the championship. Remember when I managed him, he stiffened Emile Griffith, the present champion, in one round in Pittsburgh. He lost a split decision to Joey Archer in Madison Square Garden. Who else but Carter rates a shot at Griffin's title? I don't know, somebody who's won more fights in the last year and is under suspicion of fucking double murder.

Rubin is the only boxer to knock out Emile. That makes sense. Since Carter and Tedeschi renewed their association, Rubin has worked for his manager on the Two Bridges Country Club project to help get into condition. He's now back at Escham's training camp at Chatham training. His first fight for Tadeshi Rubin is ready to Rubin is to fight

Rocky Rivera of Argentina on August 5th. He says Rivera fought Joey Giordello twice and fought Dick Tiger, both champ former champions Don Fulmer and others. OK, so he's ready to go he said he's willing to give up the contract upon payment of $15,000 he says Ruben is indebted to him okay anyway a motto says that he's still holds a contract so you're giving me money now he fights Juan Carlos Rivera, his AKAs are Rocky, as we know, and Puma also, he goes by.

Wow. Yes, Puma, okay. Puma, if you're a mystery science theater fan. They will understand that. 51, 13, and three, he is coming into this fight. So, pretty good fucking fighter here. That will make Carter, he's going to lose this and all 10 goes and Carter's going to lose on points. He's got a little

something else on his mind at the moment. He's got other shit. 27, 12 and one, his record here. October 16th, 1966. That was August. He's an Argentinianine he comes back by the 16th big headline Asbury Park press boxer arraigned in triple murder. Wow. Yeah. He spent that's wild. Who has spent six weeks and they wrapped him up. Yep. They said he spent one third of his 29 years in reformatories and prisons was arrested yesterday and charged with committing a triple murder in a local tavern four months ago. Wow. Carter, a ferocious looking fighter with a shaved head and drooping mustache, lost a championship bid against then middleweight.

How about fucking let's not talk about the boxing record. What are you guys doing? Give us a shit. They talk about all this. During the past year, he slipped from his usual rank position in the middleweight division, blah, blah, blah. He was picked up early yesterday by detectives who also arrested John Artis, 21, of Paterson. Both men were arraigned on three counts of murder for the crime here. Mayor Frank Exgraves calls it one of the most

heinous crimes in the city's history. Sure. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm sure it is, but we don't know if these guys did it. That's the problem. Aren't all crimes like that? They're all pretty heinous, yeah. And here's the thing. If both guys pass the lie detector test, I tend to fucking believe it. If one guy could just be a really good fucking liar, and then the other guy would be like, I'm, I'm, yeah, no, I didn't do anything.

If they- I'm leaning more on the lack of a murder weapon be There's no present. There's no would be in the in the no bar at all none And I'm even if you weren't a science guy you just sit there and go I mean they both passed the polygraph isn't that that isn't that good is not why we gave it to him to exclude them But also they're not covered in fucking blood. Yeah They should have been covered in blood from the very beginning But also they're not covered in fucking blood. Yeah, they should have been covered in blood from the very beginning.

Police said the slayings appeared to be in an effort to eliminate any witnesses of an apparent holdup, where they took no money by the way. And the main witness is the guy who fucking stole the fucking money. Who held him up. It's a successful robbery for Bello. That's the guy who got a successful run run so it makes no fucking sense here. Maybe he was a lookout for that shooting and his job was to get the money. Maybe that's what it was. Who knows? So they said an undisclosed amount of money was taken by two gunmen who

opened fire with it. We know that's not true. That's what the police, they were telling the newspapers that though. Killed outright, we know who's killed outright. Ringed by policemen. Carter and artists were brought into court yesterday morning and arraigned before magistrate Charles Alfano. They were held without bail. Jesus. As they were led back to their cells,

Carter hung his head and wiped tears from his eyes. Oh, I probably would be too. The two prisoners, fucking Jesus, the two prisoners had been picked up in a car near the scene shortly after the slayings but were released after questioning again they were stopped once once with they then they hadn't stopped anywhere and they had no blood on them and then they he stopped home grabbed money but still artists was there anyway Carmen Tadeche who manages the boxer

who managed the boxer after Carter's release from prison until recently, told the Associated Press, quote, I just can't believe he'd do anything like this. I don't think Rubin is a bad boy. He's 29. Man. Yeah, I don't think people understood him. He's a boy who had a lot of hard knocks all his life. Wow. Stop calling him a boy, please. People just give us no respect until we're 65. Jesus Christ, man.

No shit. Carter spent five years in reformatories and four years in prison as a teenager, as a young man. His slide down the middleweight rankings began after his loss to Giardello. This is wild. Then right under this is a very interesting article that says baby left at church with note. Oh, okay. A week old baby boy was left on the steps of a church yesterday along with a note asking that the baby quote be sent to a good foster home until the author could earn enough money to care for him. I'll be back. No. Don't do that. Store him a bit. Will you hold on to this baby until I can come back and be

charged with abandoning a child? A church is like a baby pawn shop. You didn't know that? That's what you do. They give you a ticket and if it's not sold to the highest bidding foster family in a certain amount of time, you can come back and pay for it. So it's very nice. You know, I'm going to a, that's what I can do is an abusive family down the street. We got an abusive family already has 11 kids. That's the best I can do. Oh, it's all I got really. The Reverend Joseph Molnar, minister of the Ascension, not Association, Ascension Lutheran Church received an anonymous call saying that the child had been left. Molnar recalled the police that the infant was taken to the Middlesex General Hospital

where he was in good health. Okay. October 17th, 1966. Police report robbery not motive in the slayings. Because you can't say that. you can't go into court with that You can't go into court and say they took nothing is robbery robbery We're live. They literally left cash strewn about they didn't take anything Wow, they said Patterson police have ruled out robbery as the motive for the June 17th slaying of three in Patterson saloon

I got yeah, you'd have to be an idiot. They said that out robbery as the motive for the June 17th slaying of three in Patterson Saloon. Yeah, you'd have to be an idiot. They said that, by the way, they called Carter, they called Artis his sparring partner, which is not true. Not true. They said Carter and his sparring partner. No, sparring partner is the guy they dropped off. Yeah. So no. John Artis, 21. But that's the other thing they don't explain.

There was three of them. Right. And he's such a child. Why would he bring a dude he barely knows on a fucking robbery? Sparring partner would be one thing. But let's take fucking dancing boy too. No. Right. Not dancing boy. He's not robbing boy. He's dancing boy. You don't take him. The pair were isolated and placed in maximum security cells at the Passaic County Jail when a rain Saturday before a magistrate Charles J. Alfano, the pair said they were being represented by Raymond A. Brown of Jersey City. Artis was arrested at 9.45 p.m. Friday and Carter at 1.50 a.m. Saturday. So wow. At the time they said the police said

it was two young well-dressed black men who walked into the saloon for no apparent reason and began firing. About 15 minutes after the police were called Carter and artists were picked up. They were in a late model white sedan police said they were given that description by a neighbor. Not really, who heard the shots and saw the pair running from the tavern. Police are reportedly still checking into the possibility of a revenge killing motive, quote unquote. Six and a half hours before the fatal shooting, which occurred at 2.30 a.m., Roy Holloway,

who just bought the Waltz Inn Montgomery and Summer Streets, was shot by a man he bought the saloon from. He was shot by the man he bought the saloon from. So there was a business beef. Frank Conforti, 48, after an argument. It was said at the time that Holloway was Carter's uncle. But I don't think that's true. It was reportedly denied by Carter, but police have not indicated if there was any truth

to this. Well, they already had the sparring partner thing wrong. Now they're saying it's his fucking uncle and he was so broken up about it that he danced for six hours. What are we talking about here? October 20th, 1966 is an article, Ruben Carter, a regular hurricane. For some reason, Ruben Carter never cared for the name of hurricane. The dictionary definition is a violent storm distinguished by the vehemence

of the wind and its sudden changes. A tempest is another one. You need to define, everybody knows what a fucking hurricane is. I think so. Yeah, we don't need to do that. violent storm. We know or a tempest Carter's life has been tempestuous tempestuous filled with violence altered by Sudden changes motivated by anger that had to break out from the bounds of his muscled body that contained it Sometimes it broke like a hurricane Sometimes it broke loose with fists sometimes with cobblestones, sometimes with guns, sometimes with knives. He struck back at life with whatever was at hand.

He paid for his anger by spending 10 of his 29 years behind lock and key as a juvenile and in adult reformatories. If I didn't go to prison, he once said, I'd be dead. Someone would have killed me or I would have killed somebody the way I was living. Since last Saturday morning, the man who fought and lost to Joey Giordello for the world middleweight title has been held in a cell at maximum security section of the Passaic County Jail, being a suspect of the murder. Four months have passed since the murders, but 18 years have gone by since Carter, then 11, admittedly stuck a man with a knife. Everywhere but on his

feet was the way he described the atrocious assault stabbed the shit out of him when he was released from James Bergen subsequently from Annandale Rubin and a friend went on a two-man crime rampage He said quote my partner and me a fellow. I knew at James Berg We used to get up and put our guns in our pockets like you put your wallet in your pocket Then we go out in the streets and start fighting. Anybody, everybody. We used to shoot at folks. Shoot at folks, they ask him. Just what I said. He repeated, shoot at people. Sometimes just to shoot at them, sometimes to hit them, sometimes to kill them. My family was saying I'm still a bum. If I got the name, I play the game. Once I asked Carter why he would tell such things, he was just coming up as

a fighter who was to KO Florentino Fernandez in 69 seconds and subsequently put away the welterweight champion in two minutes. That's what you want to hear, isn't it? He said, because this was his story like, oh, you come, you did terrible things, but now you're doing great things, right? You know, someone's scrabble. Yeah, riches, shit like that. That's why you're doing great things, right? You know, someone's- Heart Scrabble. Yeah. It's the riches. Shit like that. That's why you're talking to me motherfucker, isn't it? Right.

You know? Someone somewhere, somehow, should have been able to peer into the eye of this human hurricane and discover what produced such fury. There was the release in the ring, but from the time he lost to Giordello, it's all been down and his last fight, Carter, was beaten by Juan Carlos Rivera and a 10 round rounder in Rosario City, Argentina. God, that's hard to say. He who knows why will always master he who knows how, Carter once said. He who knows why will master he who knows how.

Sounds like some Confucius shit. Bruce Lee? Water? Mead water? I feel like it is. He's doing some olducius shit. Bruce Lee? Yeah. Water, need water? I feel like it is. He's doing some old school shit here. Carter once said maybe he searched for the why in those melancholy moments when his mood seized him, but not even music could still the anger

and the rebellion in him for so much of his violent life. He said, I'm a nonconformist, he once said. Nobody's going to use me or abuse me. I don't enjoy hitting people, not unless you're mean to me. Then I enjoy it. I don't enjoy it. That is a song. It sounds like a song.

Abuse me and abuse me. Use me, abuse me. I don't enjoy fighting fair either. If I get angry enough, I'm not going to fight you and then shake hands. You're going to kill me or I'm going to kill you." So basically they went back over every interview he's ever given and anytime he said, I killing or anything, they plucked that out to put it in here to make it sound like he's just bloodthirsty.

Wow. The words are fierce. His appearance is fierce with a bristling Mongol type mustache, shaved head and a baleful look. The defiance is fierce in his private war against society. And think about when this is. This is when Muhammad Ali is not allowed to fucking box because of the... This is a... This people are...

There's a lot of... Half the country hates fucking Martin Luther King and stuff like that. So this is not a time that a lot of people wanna hear about, if they hear about a young black guy's war against society, it's not good back then. For your politics. Mongolians, nobody looks at them and thinks of them as justified for any of their behavior.

That's a very calculated description of his mustache, of like, this is a bad guy. Yep, Mongol, coming to pillage and rape. That's that is Stealing and murdering but after he was married and became the father of a child He said being married slowed me down. It made me thoroughly aware of my responsibilities That'll do it yesterday I talked to the warden at the Passaic County jail where Carter is being held with another inmate in a double decked bunk cell that he appears until he appears before the municipal court for a preliminary hearing on October

25th. The warden said he was calm and composed. It will be up to the grand jury to decide if Rubin is to be indicted. He was first picked up and questioned by police shortly after then released and he says he's not guilty. But as I think of the tragedy of three people dead and all the trials and the life of this man who disliked the name of Hurricane,

I think too how different his life could have been. He's the son of a religious man and the nephew of a minister. He's the only one of four children of his family ever in trouble. Most of what he knows that didn't come off the streets he taught himself from books he read in prison. He's quick of tongue, fast of wit, just as he is swift to anger.

Once he said to me, I was, uh, I was cuntamacious, as he explained why, which is C-O-N-T, which sounds like he's calling you a cunt. Cuntamacious sounds like a made-up word which sounds like he's calling you a cunt. Cuntamacious sounds like a made up word that you made for someone who's a cunt. As he explained why he was kept in reformatory as long as he was, he used the word properly and he used it like a comic, pausing for the look of surprise that he knew had to come.

A slight smile played involuntarily across his face. He enjoyed the joke, but cynicallyically he didn't want to show it. Life has been a cruel joke to Ruben Carter, no matter what comes from this point." Wow. And then under that it says, a Boeing 707 jetliner being refueled here burst into flames Wednesday. There were no passengers aboard and no injuries, but the airline belonging to Condor Airlines was badly damaged Burst into flames in Frankfurt, Germany

October 25th 1966 is getting his court hearing here Ruben Hurricane Carter and a truck driver will be at least they're not calling him a sparring partner The truck driver will be given preliminary hearings today on charges of shooting three people to death in an apparent holdup attempt. He's going to have it. They've been held without bail. Holy shit. So that's, they put together his quotes so much of the anything with, you know, kill

or death or murder. It's all, ah, I knew it. And as a boxer, that's the worst because they say things that are, I'm gonna kill him. Mike Tyson said, I'm gonna eat your children. Suppose there was dead children with teeth marks in it. They would be like, it must have been Mike.

You know, it had to have been Mike. Who else could have done this? He threatened rape so many times. So many times. He was screwed if anybody ever accused him. And it happened. And he did. And he did.

And Ruben Carter then is indicted for murder. Him and artists are both indicted, which is, I mean, not unexpected. Yeah. I mean, it seems like they've got it out for him in the first place, but. They have the old saying that you could you could indict a ham sandwich a prosecutor and get a ham sandwich and dieted anything looks good to them. He enters his plea of not guilty here. Wow, Valentine from the the woman from the apartment above and the actual robbers fucking

girlfriend. Right. I want to know exactly what the fuck she's talking about lit up like butterflies. What the fuck does that mean, Valentine? I don't know the logo or the lights, if it had like one of those like... Did they have long ones that went up?

Or one of like a, like the circular one. A swooping? Like around like a spare tire looking thing on the back with the lights on it. There's cars like that. So... I don't know what the fuck she's talking about. I don't either.

Valentine initially stated that the car had rear lights which lit up completely like butterflies, remember. Later on though, after she testifies at this trial and everything, she changes this to an accurate description of Carter's car. Oh. Which had conventional tail lights with aluminum decoration in a butterfly shape. So at first she said the lights all lit up like butterflies. Then she later on at this, at another trial, she will say that, no, no, no, they were like this and accurately described the lights. So, okay. So she's been shown a picture of a dog. She's been told what they look like.

Yeah. This aligned with what provided by Bello of that provided by Bello, the prosecution later suggested the confusion was the result of misreading of a court transcript by the defense. Forensics later established the victims were shot by a 32 caliber pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun, although no weapons were ever found. That's not good.

No. There's no forensic evidence linking Carter or Artis to the murders. They didn't even do fucking residue checks on their hands. Nothing. They have no zero. I'll bet you the.32 is still in the Hudson. It's, I was just going to say there's a fucking lot of rivers around here. You betcha.

While the gun residue tests were commonly used, D. Simone, the lead detective, later claimed he had insufficient time to bring in an expert to administer the tests. Insufficient time to get the most important evidence of everything. They were there, by the way, for 16 hours in the police station. In 16 hours, you couldn't get anybody, by the way, you're within an hour of New York City, and within 16 hours, you couldn't get you couldn't get somebody with a handy wipe one fucking person who knew how to do a GSR test. Are you? Wow.

Fuck that is pathetic. That's some sorry shit. He did arrange for an expert to conduct lie detector tests. He got enough time to get lie detector tests before he got a GSR. Yeah. Because a lie detector you can work to your advantage. You can't work a GSR. If they have no gunshot

residue the fucking case is over, they're gone. If they fail a lie detector, now we can really dig into this. In 1976 a second report was discovered claiming they failed the test even though they were let go and told they passed. But they had a report for that. After 17 hours of interrogation they were released. But they didn't bring out the 70s. They didn't bring that out until 76. Oh, no, they actually failed the polygraph, even though we told them they passed and they did pass. And we've been saying that for 10 years. After 17 hours, they were released. Carter and artists voluntarily appeared before a grand jury, which found there was no case to answer at the time. A rental car had been impounded when Carter and Artis

were arrested and retained by police. Five days after the release, a detective reported that on searching it again, he discovered two unfired rounds in the car. In the car? Yes, now the first, it wasn't there when they searched the first time, but't there when they first searched the first time but then right when they were gonna give him back They said they found a 32 132 caliber and a 12 gauge

Shell one of each one of each that's convenient neither match those retrieved from the victims by the way So he threw of 232 isn't a fucking get 12 gauge on the floor I was like hey look what I found hey look at these Because otherwise they just had all different ammo now in the car. Now it's getting more and more far fetched. The 32 round was brass rather than copper. He didn't know that at the time though. He couldn't know. They just looked gold to him.

Yeah, when they pulled him out. While the shotgun shell was an older model with a different wad and color than the shotgun shell. So complete bullshit is what that is. To me, if I hear they searched the car the first time, they didn't find shit, then they automatically found them, but they're not even the same ones that match the one. I'm going, this case is over. You people are tampering with evidence and this is all imaginary at this point.

If I'm a judge, I'm going all this out. It's all flawed. If I present this in court, it's all shadow of doubt like a motherfucker. It's over, man. It's wild. Asked to account for these differences at trial, the prosecution produced a second report allegedly lodged 75 minutes after the murder, which recorded the two rounds, even though no, not true.

They were unable to explain why, having that evidence, the police released the two rounds, even though, no, not true. They were unable to explain why, having that evidence, the police released the two men, or why a standard bag and tag evidence procedure wasn't followed. Well, if you had them then, A, why'd you let them go, and B, why the fuck didn't you take them as evidence, you fucking morons? They had no explanation for that,

because it didn't happen, that's why. They literally fabricated reports after the fact that insanity Yeah, they also argued that since the expanded our expended rounds retrieved at the scene Or also a mixture the fact that the two rounds did not match were meaningless What did match is that they what did matter was that they were the same caliber? That's what mattered. No That's the least thing that fucking matters. I got a bunch of 12 gauge. I do it. That's what mattered. No, that's the least thing that fucking matters. I got a bunch of 12 gauge. Should I do it? That's what I mean. I may have done it. I'm sure there's a cop walking around with a fucking 32 out there. Is it his fault? Like that's why you compare

ammo. It's insanity. So the defense are basically focused on inconsistencies in the evidence given by eyewitnesses, Marins and Bellow. The one who has a lot of reason to lie because he's a criminal who literally stole from a fucking murder scene. That's crazy. Imagine walking in, seeing three dead people, two others gurgling, struggling for their lives and you go, ooh, cash in the register and then walk out.

Hold on guys, I'm going to give you help. Imagine what kind of a person does that. After I get this. No. You'd be so over. If you're not overwhelmed by the death, you're a fucked up person to begin with. But if you go, and I get the money,

you're a really fucked up person. If your first initial thought is, oh my god, they're going to think I did this, if it's not that, there's something wrong with you. Yes's exactly you were the cops caught the guy walking out with the cash register money in his hand and they go who'd you see shoot these guys black eyes two of them I don't know wow so the defense Raymond a Brown focused on inconsistencies in the evidence given by the eyewitnesses and also he produced witnesses,

oh my god, Jesus Christ, add up all the inconsistencies we've just given you. And that's just the most basic sweeping ones. There's tons of little ones that we don't have time to get into here. They also produced alibi witnesses, several who said that Carter and artists were still at the night spot at the time of the shootings. They didn't even leave the club yet. Couldn't have been them. Didn't even leave the club yet. Couldn't have been them.

Holy shit. So they find, obviously the jury finds them both guilty of murder. Wow. I have no fucking idea how that's not reasonable doubt. So that's insane. So then sentencing comes around. The judge called the killings a cold blooded massacre. In his when he does it.

They said Carter had his head drooped and sure Sat there. They say you sir may fuck off three consecutive life sentences for Carter. Wow. Two for artist, three for Carter. Oh my. Wow. That is fucking remarkable. They said the judge imposed a third life sentence on Carter

to run concurrently. Oh, the third runs two consecutive and then a concurrent. So that one doesn't matter. I'm going to give you a break on this third. Yeah, I'm going to hook you up here. That is fucking amazing. Artists brought to the courtroom with Carter today under heavy guard received three concurrent life sentences. So he didn't get consecutive. He got concurrence. He'll be eligible for parole. By the way, a concurrent life sentence gets you parole in 14 years. Wow.

Both men are to be transferred to the Trenton State Prison to begin serving their terms. Judge Larner said he took Artis' lack of criminal record into account. He also told Artis, Rubin was the leader and you are the follower. Oh gee, thanks for telling us what happened. The judge asserted the evidence reflects a clear cut intent to kill every person in the tavern at the time. Yes, whoever was there really wanted to, but I don't think it was them. He added that the case is totally absent of any understandable reason or motive.

Again, perfectly agree with that. That is remarkable. So they're given life fucking sentences. That is I don't even know what to say about that. That's fucking bonkers. And then it automatically goes for a New Jersey Supreme Court appeal. A unanimous 7-0 decision said from the Jersey State Supreme Court said that it found nothing to suggest that Carter and an accomplished and an accomplice were innocent in the shootings. Nothing.

Oh my God. Seven oh. I mean. Who are those people? A fucking A man. This is wow. What the fuck man. March 4th 1970.

They're denied a new hearing. The US Supreme Court turns down petitions by these two for it to hear the fucking case. They're turned down for it. Wow. So according to assistant Passaic County prosecutor Archibald S. Krieger, who sounds like a real party, that guy, who opposed the applications, the court ruled it could find nothing in the records to warrant a review of the case. Nothing. All the stuff we just mentioned. Yep, we're good. Not even a little bit.

The defendants contended that the evidence at trial did not warrant convictions and two prosecution witnesses lied to win favor from the state because they were burglarizing a factory near the tavern when the shooting occurred. Yes, Bella will say anything because you caught him walking out of a murder scene with money in his hand. Of course, I'll tell you who did it. Sure. Not me. Tell you that much. I didn't have anything to do with it. I didn't do anything. Neither of my buddies did it. I know that much here. Wow. They pointed out that the two witnesses were not indicted for the attempted burglary. He admitted he was burglarizing a tavern and stole the cash register money

and was never indicted for any of that. He helped. He was such a hero though. Oh, he is. He really is. Save the neighborhood. See something, say something. You know what I mean? You really got to do that.

This is fucking crazy. So now he's in prison. Ron Way, New Jersey. In the outer office, a guard in a blue shirt looked up. What's his number? The guard asked. 45472, one of the visitors replied. Moments later two other guards began to unlock doors inside Raway State Prison's high brick

walls. Soon, in a private room with a big brown wooden door that had a small window, Ruben Carter appeared. Once he fought for the middleweight title, Ruben Hurricane Carter, but now he's 36 years old, serving a triple life sentence for the 1966 murder of three white patrons in Patterson, New Jersey, Tavern. His black skull was shaved as it always was. His mustache and beard were thick. His glasses have gold frames.

Other prisoners wore gray or blue, but he resembled a hospital intern with a high-collared white jacket and white pants over polished brown boots. I don't wear what the other guys wear, he explained. It's the only way I can keep my individuality here. In his cell, he studies law books and types his autobiography, The Sixteenth Round, which fifteen rounds in a title fight. That's a good one.

He's fighting a much longer fight. It's a real fucking long fight. I'm going to do this. Let's give him an in their own words on this I feel like here. I feel like it's only fair with what's going to happen to him here. In their own words, quote, I didn't commit the crime, but the jury decided that I'd done it. So my innocence or guilt is not even relevant anymore.

The fact is now, did I receive a fair trial with all my constitutional rights protected. My whole time here is spent looking in law books, trying to get out of here. The only way for me is through the law, unless I escape, which isn't feasible right now. That's crazy. Yeah, stuck. Wow, that's fucking bonkers. He has nothing he can do. He's just stranded.

Nothing. Can't punch his way out of this one. Unbelievable. They said, he laughed, his gold teeth flashing. He appeared more determined than angry about his appeal that will be filed in federal court. I was cleared by a man wounded by the killer. I was cleared by a man wounded by the killer. The guy said it wasn't him.

Yeah. Yeah. I passed a lie detector test that I took voluntarily. The description of the killers fit neither me nor John Artis convicted with me. And there's a lot more but to know that you don't belong here. It's a mind-bending thing, man. I'm no goody-goody guy. I've been in these places before but I'm man enough to realize that if I indeed committed this crime a man enough to take my weight That a boy. Yeah, but because I know I was put here falsely. This is blowing my mind I think about it not every second man, but every half second. I have nothing in common here with Nobody the inmates today just aren't my type of people

That's the best line ever. The inmates today, kids today, this is not my kind of people. People I grew up committing crimes with, this is a much better class of people. They're not worrying about going home, they just want to go to television to go play handball. I ain't got no time for this. I read the law in my house and that's my cell. I don't go nowhere, I just read the law in my house. Suddenly the door opened. What's your number?

45472, he said quietly. He has been a number before at the Jamestown Reformatory and later at Annandale and Trenton. All my life, he continued, I had the stigma of being a white people hater and a cop hater. But it boils down to the only friends I've got are white and the only friends I've ever had on the street were white and cops This fucking mother manager was a goddamn prison warden. I mean, right So doesn't say yeah, he said but because of that old reputation people said maybe Ruben did get a shafting but knowing Ruben It's possible. He did it

Like a shafting which is like maybe he didn't do it, but maybe he did. Well, maybe isn't enough. This is consecutive life terms here. And if he didn't, then let's keep him there. But you know what I mean? Let's figure that out for sure. Yeah, that's totally. They said, now if I'd be accused of killing one person,

people would have said, no, that wouldn't be Ruben. Or if I'd been accused of going in here to rob somebody, they would have said, that's not Ruben because Ruben has never really been a thief. Well, maybe he was a kid, he was. But when I was accused of going in there to shoot four white people, they said, that sounds like Ruben because Ruben might do that. Now they say, all right, Ruben got shafted, but they feel Ruben is a revengeful man. So they say, well, look, this is him talking in the third person, by the way, this isn't

a description. They say, well, look, let's just keep him. Let's just keep him. Let him stay there. Maybe he didn't do it, but he's in jail now. He can't bother nobody. If we try to get him out of jail, whatever we do will fall back on our names. It's like going to the zoo and seeing the lion. You'd like to stick your fingers in the cage, but as long as the bars are there, you're all right." He said, this is the type of mentality I'm dealing with in here, where I can't get nobody to help me, where they feel it's safer to keep me here. And he's got a wife named Thelma and his 10-year-old daughter visit him regularly. He said, they come as often as they can we have contact visits here no screens so I can touch them

I can hold them, but when I left home my daughter was three years old Ten now. Oh Yeah, but she remember her daddy because she knows her daddy loved her and she loved her daddy But when she started getting up an age, like last year, one time she started crying, I said, what are you crying for? But she was just getting old enough to realize where I was at, that I couldn't come home and that hurt me. I mean, that tore me up.

Somebody could have knocked me down and said, and it wouldn't have compared to what that had done to me. I sit here and look at these bars holding me in here. Not only are they killing me, they're hurting my family." Then they say when his wife and daughter visit him on Sunday, they won't be able to bring any Christmas presents as it goes. He said, they bring food packages and I can eat them, but what are you going to do with a present? He said, I don't allow anybody else to come because I don't need to talk. If you want to do something,

come and help me try to get me out of here." He's like, fuck talking to me. Yeah, yeah. Call a lawyer. Call a good one. Yeah. The time you're gonna spend driving here, waiting, fucking do that shit and something else.

He'll spend Christmas reading law books in his cell. He says to me, Christmas is just another day. And his book does come out in 1974. He finished, he followed through the 16th round from number one contender to number five, our four, five, four, four, seven, two. So that's not a bad title. That's a great fucking title. And it's still available on Amazon. You can get it paperback. I guess it was a reissue in 2011. It's got 4.8 stars out of 1,038 ratings on Amazon Dev. Well, I mean, the movie really made that book huge. It helped him, yeah, it definitely helped him.

So I think we're gonna stop there for right now. Wow. Good place to stop, he's in prison. We have all the facts, it's pretty ridiculous, and it's 1974 and we'll get back into it. We're gonna do him dirty and leave him in prison. We're gonna do him dirty and leave him in prison, pretty ridiculous and it's 1974 and we'll get back into it. We're gonna do them dirty and leave them in prison. We're gonna do them dirty and leave them in prison going, somebody help me.

Don't come visit me, fucking fix that shit. Yeah, because there's a lot more to go so we got plenty to do. Yeah, well there's a whole, there's a retrial and that doesn't work out. And then a movie from Denzel. And then a movie and a Bob Dylan song and everything else. So we are there. So yes, thank you so much. I hope you are enjoying the story.

I'm really, really enjoying the story. I'm super fucking interested in this. The movie was long too, but it's because the story is, it's so fucking involved. You have to know everything about him before you can know anything about him. Yes, there's so fucking involved. There's you have to know everything about him before you can know anything about him. Yes. You can't just say boxer that was went to jail for murder and got out and whatever. No, you have to know his backstory. You have to know the boxing too. You have to know that year he got hit in the head of shit load. You have

to know there's so much background that needs to be done. We have to start it, get to grace and then fucking fall, as we've said many, many times. And don't worry, next week we'll have, how is it you've come to arrive here? I don't know if we're gonna finish this next week. Oh really? This might be four parts.

Wow. It might be. Oh my God. It might be four, we have a lot left, so we'll figure it out, but it's gonna be at least three parts, obviously, so we'll do all that. Keep doing that.

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You betcha. They come out all the time. So every other week, this week, we're going to talk about for Crime and Sports is the Duke LaCrosse disaster. That whole mess Which was like what a story Wow Just having hatred go from one place to another like it's like you're you need like your head you get whiplash from it It's like whoa. No, you're awful. No, you're awful. Everyone's awful. This sucks

It's like they're like they're passing a ball between awful lacrosse sticks Back and forth and those little nets So I definitely follow there and what that will get you is a shout out and when do those shout outs happen? Right fucking now Jimmy hit me with the names of the people who would never ever ever testify lies against us to get us Consecutive life prison life sentences in prison Jimmy hit me with them right fucking now This week's executive producers are Cindy Ryan, happy birthday by the way. Happy birthday.

Skyla Powell, happy birthday. Holy shit, the two of you. Hope they're great days. Gary Howard and Dave Weasel. Dave Weasel and Gary too has been listening a long time, but Dave Weasel is a comedian. He's been listening to us for a very long time also. He's a wonderful person.

I've known him from Twitter for eight years ago or so. He's terrific. to us for a very long time also. He's a wonderful person. I've known him from Twitter for Eight years ago or so he's terrific. Thank you Dave fucking a sweetheart salute other producers this week are crystal Bob scene Kelly from oh Hello, Kelly from the IT guys wife aren't Trying to figure out why I wrote that like that. That's a hmm Trying to figure out why I wrote that like that. That's a hmm. I don't know maybe Why why'd you do that register that everybody not not trying to figure out why they wrote this I'm trying to figure out why I wrote this like this just make sure you registered that please I think the IT guy's wife is jealous and Kelly and wants her to leave him alone I don't maybe coming over the house all the time. Really being a. I love you making wild accusations, Kelly.

Work for Ruby Carter. Other producers continuing are Janice Hill, Scarlet Horror Beast III, Paula T, Sarah, oh it's Keen, Jacqueline Rose, Big build up. Very easy. Suspense, Scottish McMuffin, Dylan Langley on yes on your dark star clay with no last name Michael with no last name Amanda Stewart Jacob wise Tim Bland Tammy with no last name Greg with no last name shadow Thomas Rebecca Coon lay Cunley

Cunel Walterank holy shit Melissa fees McKenzie Malloy Brittany Messer Derek Derek Lemons, I almost called him Lamond, Jess Dixon, Maria Cece, Sarah Irvin, William Kammer I think, Joseph G, Heather B, Soul, like the son, Spanish Soul, Sol. Yeah, Heather B the rapper. From the real world first season? I don't think that, maybe. From the Boogie Down Produ first season? I don't think that, I don't think that. Maybe.

From the Boogie Down Productions crew? I hope not. BDP in the fucking house? Adriana Justice, Craig G., Jen Thomas, Frankie G., Samantha De Nino, Frank Grill, Ashley Rose, Jennifer Loya, Brian Kush, Flower Child, BMX. Good flower there. Big smoker, big bike rider, that BMX. Good flower there.

Big smoker, big bike rider, that's Brian. I like it. I know a lot of things about Brian right now. Good dude, yeah. He's doing good stuff out there. Courtney Latham, the Hey Elliot podcast, Matt with no last name, Eric Sautel, Lisa Hambly, Annali Olson, Roxanne Hines,

Deanna with no last name, MLT, Chrissy with no last name, Colt Cochran, the Mexicution. What? Is he Mexican and kills or does he kill Mexicans? Evidently, that is a fantastic name. That's hilarious. Nate Sheehan, Gary Jenkins, Jesse Wright,

Sarah Cunningham, Julie Dee, Brent Howard, Kathy Gonsar, Derek Long, Sherry Green, Amy Brooks, Yesenia Marie, Dump Truck, all right, that's a very nice Sylvan, somebody with a giant round ass. Sylvan Deble, I think, Megan Murphy, just Meg Murphy, Kristy Busby, that just reminded me of Busby from Australia. Yeah, Mark. Holy shit.

Sherry Stanton, sorry, not to distract from you, Kristy, you're wonderful. Not to take anything away from Australia. Yeah, Mark. Holy shit. Sherry Stanton, not to distract from you, Christie. You're wonderful. Not to take anything away from you. You're the real hero this week. Mark Busby didn't do shit for us this week. Remember Mark Busby? What a guy. He did nothing for us this week. You did. Jesse Rimland, that's a great land. Megging with no last name. Cindy with no last name. Lindsay Hood. Ginger Gal gal Alexandria well talc ah Candice Pachal Raina M Riena maybe Tiffany Herbert at Nebby knows Randy with no last name Laurel manion Nate Brooks Scott fine out Emma Emma Downing clover with no last name elf with no last name Jason Hart Michelle Carmen John Solomon loyal turkey Peter Turkey, Peter Newell, Newell,

Angela Jones, Motherfucker Jones, all right. Motherfucker. Sheila Van Nort, Emily Westrick, Sarah Hill, Jess Herring, Reedle, Reedy, what is that? What is that? It is Reedle. Why did I write this?

How did I write this? Who would do that? Mark would know last names. Saraya Henry, Catherine Lenino, Leigh Eno, David Holloway, Angel Giovanni, Andy Gilbert, Mike Davis, Courtney Harris, Victoria Barra, Fernandez Barra, Courtney Vasquez, RJ Callens Jr., Dustin Brown, Hip Young, Johnny, oh Tommy, Tommy Guns., Hip Young Tommy Guns. Hip Young Tommy Guns.

He may be a boxer, we don't know. Brian DuBec, probably not. Katie Carly, Carly Merkert, Markert. Salah Nyazi, Salah Nyazi. Jalen Robertson, Chavarro, wouldn't know the last name. Chance McDaniel, hey Chance, how are you bud? Ray Dog, Jenny Hulce, Christy Denler, Lusco, Melanie Simone, Diane from Spokane,

Kerry Turner, oh that rhymes, that does, I like that, that's very cool. Yeah, move to a city that rhymes with your name. Wissman from, where the fuck is that? I'm Jimmy from Kissimmee, nice to meet you. There we go. That's what you gotta be. Much better.

Yeah, it's gotta be the first name I guess, right? Yeah, it has to be. Where the fuck am I? Kerry Turner, Haley Fisher, Susan Rebaut, Melanie DeSantos, Alex Richman, Tara Rodriguez, Joe Fenton, Billy Colley, Matt and Jesse Schlichten. Yep, the cakes would know last name. Lindsay Langley, Brother Bear, Jackie Feran, Dee Goobelman. Woody Woodman Z? Woodman Z. What is that? That's a road somewhere, right?

Yeah. Or is that a place somewhere? It's a town. It's a city. Yeah, I think you're right. Jen Holder, Stacy Henry, Nellie Noble, Tracy Pettit, Jen Fred, Cameron Grip, Jimmy would know last name, Melissa would know last name, Shelly would know last name, Mason Gordon, Libby Alder, Alderfer, Christina would know last name, and then Christina Britz.

I got a feeling that's one person, two different patrons. Thank you, Christina. Well, thank you, thank you. Otherwise, thank both of you. Jason, the no-hooker-killing trucker, James. He kills no hookers. That's good. He kills everybody but hookers.

Christopher Sharp. You gotta have standards and you know not even standards you gotta have an appetite. Hey otherwise you're not worth it. Know your appetites. That's all. Georgia Schwartzkop, Silent Storm, Kyler with no last name, Leah Works, Delgado and all of our patrons obviously you guys are the best. Thank you. Thank you so much everybody. You're wonderful wonderful best. We appreciate everything you do for us And we're gonna keep working our fucking balls off to bring you the best possible shit We can and hopefully you'll enjoy it. We can't we can't make that happen. We can put it out You have to enjoy it. So hopefully you do

Hopefully you're enjoying all the other content listen to the other shows your, your stupid opinions, multi-murder, enjoy Patreon. Keep hanging out with us. We'll be back with Ruben Carter part three next week, live from the Crime and Sports Studios. We will see you next week. Bye. ["The Time of the Year"] If you like crime and sports, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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