Crime in Sports - #427 - The King Of New Jersey - Jayson Williams - Part 3

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

This week, we follow as Jayson stands trial for the killing of his limo driver. Before the trial a very damaging story comes out about a dog, that doesn't look good for Jayson, but lawyers insist that he will clear everything up with his testimony, only to not send him to the stand. Jayson uses his massive resources to clog up the trial with many experts, who have some questionable theories about how shotguns work, and who question the motives of witnesses!! Will he get away with it??Spend millions of dollars on your trial, go on 20/20 to get your story out, while really angering a judge, and get a whole series of soon to be discredited experts to say that you did nothing wrong with Jayson Williams - Part 3!!Check us out, every Tuesday!We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!!  Contact us on... twitter.com/crimeinsports [e-mail] facebook.com/Crimeinsports instagram.com/smalltownmurderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to crime and sports early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I'm Ennis James. And I'm Ernest James. And I'm Colin Murray, and this is Everything to Play For. It's the show that takes you inside the greatest sports stories of all time. And our new two-parter is truly one of the greatest stories of human perseverance ever told. Yes, it is the story of the speed demon, the Max missile, it's Mark Cavendish,

and his journey to beat Eddie Mirks' Tour de France stage win record. 35 is the magic number, 35 stage wins. It's almost too good to be true. And there was a point where nobody thought that this was ever going to happen for him. But despite all the outside noise, Mark Cavendish carries on and proves everyone wrong to show why he is one of the all-time greats. Follow everything to play for on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge seasons early and ad-free right now on Wondery+. Hello everybody and welcome back to Crime and Sports. Yay!

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo, I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. On another crazy edition of Crime and Sports, we are going to dip back into Jason Williams. He's headed towards trial for sure Definitely for shooting a limo driver and then wiping his fingerprints from the gun and trying to put the gun in the fucking dead

Man's hands and having everyone attest to the fact which is yeah, and then pressuring anybody on the scene To say that go along with his story and having an off-duty cop help him do that as well which is yeah wow we're through the looking glass here on in terms of in terms of athlete arrogance I don't know I think we've ever been here before to this level of arrogance this is a new this is new even for crime and sports this is a new level of ego they gave him so much money for nothing he really holy shit he really thinks he's a big deal. He really does.

We'll get to all that. First of all, shutupandgivememurder.com, get everything there, all your merchandise, tickets for live shows, come, or actually come, don't come. Stay home and see us on the virtual live show. It is October 31st, Halloween night. We're gonna have costumes, just like a regular live show, except you're in your house rather than you know

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Before that, nevermind, let's get into this. Here we go. Let's talk about Mr. Jason Williams here. Like I said, we left off with him in kind of, it's all pre-trial stuff. He has so much money that he can delay things a lot, an awful lot. He tried to make the state of New Jersey tap. Yeah, he tried to basically like outlast them, but the problem is you

don't have more money than a state no matter how much money you have. Theirs keeps replenishing. Yeah, they'll just get more. They'll get more, whereas your leg is fucked up and no one's gonna ever give you any more money. You can't get more, yeah. It's interesting because we're gonna do as a bonus episode one of these days the trial of Snoop Dogg back in the day for his murder trial. Oh yeah, for murder was the case. Yeah, I recently saw a thing with him where he said it costs more than $10 million to get him out of that in lawyers fees. The lawyers cost more than $10 million to get out from a murder charge.

That's what good lawyers cost if you want to mount up experts and have all that kind of shit. Jason, you didn't do it. Yeah. So Jason Williams is paying out his ass for these lawyers just to keep continuing the fucking thing and try to outlast the state of New Jersey. So November 4th, 2003, they're going to they're going to they've set the trial date for the off duty cop who is accused of tampering with witnesses and coming over. And, you know, basically he called his cop buddy allegedly and the guy came over and cleaned up the mess for him and told him you know oh you say this you say that well I'll just say this so I guess they this is um Victor Ashrafi is oh that's the judge I'm sorry that's not the cop here the cop is Eric Elena that's right that was his name he's accused of tampering with witnesses and so they're talking about a trial for him as well,

which is pretty fucking fun, obviously, because that's just dumb. I mean, Jason Williams, he shot a guy and did all that, but this guy was at home, he wasn't even here. You know, like, that is wild, he came over to do this shit. I guess he was at the tavern with them earlier that night and then didn't come back to the house. Oh, he went to the bar with them.

He went to the bar with him and then he came over later on. So they said the judge says here that the state will be permitted to introduce testimony at trial provided the prosecutors do not refer to the incident during opening statements, which is very fucking interesting here.

So that's how they're gonna do. I guess Elena drove to Williams' house and just started telling everybody what to do is the allegations here. Started saying, you do this, you do that, you say this. If we do that, no one will bother us, I guess. So December 31st, 2003, still waiting obviously on Jason Williams trial, there is

an article that says ex-NBA star could build senior center. Before or after his murder trial. Which one? Before or after man. So I guess they said Jason Williams may step into build the city's long awaited senior center, a space for performing arts, I guess they said Jason Williams may step in to step in to build the city's long awaited senior center as a space for performing arts, I guess, and a space for performing arts. They said this is two weeks before he's supposed to stand trial. And they're talking about that the city agreed to allow Williams's foundation to construct the center on East Front Street. The deal would save the city at least three million dollars in construction costs. Oh, by him floating it. That's terrific. Yeah, he's

gonna they're gonna spend it in legal fees on the delays anyway. So both sides stressed that the deal is far from finalized, but city officials expressed expressed hope that the Jason Williams Foundation, which he's been involved with and charitable shit will make good on the offer. The mayor said this is a great financial deal if it comes to fruition for the city It's a great gift to the city from the Williams Foundation You'd think the mayor would say we're gonna find out if he's a murderer first But then after that, yeah, if he's cool, if he's cool, we'll take his money. But otherwise, this is a little crazy. So take his money, but otherwise this is a little crazy. So, wow, I guess Williams Foundation would be,

the city would lease the property to the Williams Foundation for $1 a year for 12 years. Once the center was built, the city would pay the foundation no more than $20,000 a month in rent, and at the end of 12 years, the city would own the center. Oh. So he's gonna make it all back. Yeah, through rent costs.

Through rent costs, he's basically gonna make it back. So it's a, I'm sure there's some loopholes where he donated, it gets a huge write-off for that, and then he gets paid rent. All the way back to the original cost, and probably more than. And probably more than, and then I guarantee you, when they actually hand it over,

there's another big tax break for handing it over to the city as well too. So I guarantee you this is, he'll end up making more money off of this than he's giving. This is terrific. It's a great deal for him. So the city's been working on finding housing for the senior center since a 10 year lease expired

several years ago. Seniors didn't want to house the center in the Teppers building or in a former armory and were holding out for a new center downtown. So there you go. Wow beggars are being choosers there. Jesus Christ. We have nowhere to live. I'd like it to be closer to downtown. This is what we got grandpa. Sorry. Location, location, location. Fuck you off from me now January 16th 2004 they're trying to pick a jury here and Jason Williams lawyer is arguing that the jury should be a cross-section of the community So a superior court judge this article says admonished an attorney for Jason Williams on Thursday after the defense lawyer

Suggested that a potential juror should be selected because she's black. No other reason. You can't want someone or like get rid of someone strictly because of their race. That's not really part of the jury system. That feels also dirty. It feels a little dirty. The manslaughter trial of Williams here is to get underway this week, they're saying. Yeah, they had originally 60 jurors,

and then they have to pick the final 16 after that. The sweet 16 coming from that. 16? A lot of times they do that. A lot of states, they do 12 and then four alternates. Oh, four alternates. Yeah, especially if it's a longer trial. Sometimes jurors will get sick, something will happen. Who knows? Their husband could get hit by a car and I have to take care of their kids

You know do it with 32 and then throughout the trial start narrowing it down and then eventually it's just the playoffs And then you have one guy that decides just one person It's just him. We have a council of three at the end By two to one vote that's what happens of three at the end by two to one vote. That's what happens. Like the Super Bowl. One crown Super Bowl champion who gets a ring and everything for deciding your fate. Just you. Everybody be trying to get off of it. I don't want to be here anymore. The issue of race was raised in court Thursday after prosecutors asked Coleman to excuse

a black woman who said her husband, a professional basketball player in Europe, had played several friendly games with Williams at the Summerville YMCA. Yeah, she should be dismissed. Yeah. Your husband knows him and he's a basketball player. It's not, it's just all a little... She's got a little bit of bias. Yeah. Although the woman's, yeah, she's a little biased. Although the woman said she and Williams had never formally met except for a quick hello. Well, how many jurors do you, I guarantee you in the state, in your entire county, there's probably 16 people that have never met Jason Williams at all, even as a quick hello. Pick them, please.

How's that? Also, I mean, it could go one way or the other. She certainly has a taste for basketball players. You know what I mean? Yeah. She tastes one a taste for basketball players, you know what I mean? She tastes one a lot. Then you've also got the, would she be bitter towards him for playing in the NBA and thinking her husband's better than him? Who knows?

Either way, you don't want that woman on the jerk. You don't want, either way, I don't know him as much for just a quick hello. That's too much still. I don't care. Yeah, way too much knowing a quick hello. At the YMCA once, her husband has played with him several times during the last two years. During the summer, the YMCA holds the pickup games

on mostly afternoons, and you show up and play. Obviously, it's a pickup game. The couple also attended the same high school as Williams, Christ the King High School in Middle Village, New York and Queens there, although she and her husband graduated some years before Williams. So they're even alums of the same place. When the prosecutor asked the woman if she could set her relationship with Williams aside and be impartial, she replied, knowing the defendant the way I do, I would be concerned if I could separate the two. So she didn't even say, no I barely know the guy, I could judge him fine. She said, knowing the defendant the way I do, I would be concerned if I could separate the two.

So she didn't even say, no, I barely know the guy, I could judge him fine. She said, I don't know if I could be fair. Goodbye. Bye. Race, anything else doesn't fucking matter. You know him and you're not sure you could put that aside. See ya.

Bye. But Williams' attorney, Joseph Hayden, told the judge that the defense was trying to secure a cross-section of the community, which includes African Americans, and there shouldn't be a different standard. No, there shouldn't be a different standard. Therefore, any juror of any color says, I know him and I don't know if I could be impartial. Goodbye. We should have plenty of people. Plenty of people. The judge, visibly angry, said, oh, I'm sorry,'m sorry the DA visibly angry said he was insulted by the implication

He said in case there's any misconception. It's certainly insulting to suggest that anyone in this room is making any decisions based on race It doesn't matter to me what race the person is but whether or not they're qualified And I think it's insulting to suggest we have to qualify someone because of their race so I think it's insulting to suggest we have to qualify someone because of their race. So the defense attorney said he didn't do anything wrong and it was his right under the Constitution to get a fair cross-section of the community. The DA then excused the woman citing her personal connection to Williams. They said the attorneys attempted to decide the whole thing and the judge had to figure it out. So there you go.

They said they're going to add at least 20 more potential jurors to the pool, apparently. So yeah, that's how that goes. Jason Williams' spokesperson, though, said, the attorneys attempted to keep this juror in the pool because they strongly believed that based upon the rules that this juror should not have been excused from this case. I can't imagine arguing that in court with a straight face.

She said the words, I don't know if I could be impartial. My? Whatever the reason is, you're gone. I don't know. We need people who go, I know I can be impartial. Fine, you're good. Holy fucking shit. That is wild. They said in all

18 people have been selected. 16 people have been excused for various reasons, including economic hardship. It's going to be a two month long trial. So that is a fucking lot man. An awful lot here. So the, I guess the Jason Williams said the shooting was a tragic accident and will appear. This is right before the trial will appear with his pregnant wife Tanya on 2020 with Barbara Walters oh he's gonna go on there and cry and say it was horrible whole time one hand on his wife's belly yeah Jesus fucking Christ man in the comfort that woman she's uncomfortable. Yeah. Please, please Barbara come give her a hug. One person's not enough. So in the interview, Williams said he was

terrified of going to jail and said he visits Christophies grave weekly. He visits the dead limo driver's grave. The guy who he couldn't even give the dignity of telling the truth of how he fucking died. Wanted his family to believe he shot himself in the chest for some reason while you swam in a pool to get the gunshot residue off of you. Are you joking, bro? This is fucking ridiculous. Go see him and pray that his ghost will help you. Un-fucking-believable.

That is, wow. So they asked the couple why they decided to be interviewed and They said in light of the barrage of negative press Jason Williams, and it's almost like he shot a guy It's super weird. It's crazy. He's getting these negative articles about him Jason Williams and his wife Tanya thought it was necessary to correct the inaccurate and misrepresented information inaccurate and misrepresented information. Wow, this guy's got huge balls. I mean, his book shouldn't have been called Loose Balls, it should have been called Huge Balls.

The biggest you've ever seen. Giant fucking Kaleons is what it should have been called. January 21st, 2004, a fair testimony of a witness saying that he staged, fucking staged a suicide. This is going to appear the interview with Dean Bumbaco. Hey, Deanie Bumbaco, sounds made up. Is airing on Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel.

And he was a man who was at the mansion when the guy was killed. And he says that Williams tried to make it look like he was like the guy killed himself. So he's saying this in the court of public opinion here. So they said the broadcast comes as jury selection continues. And the thing is a judge is then going to issue a thing saying everybody stop giving interviews who's involved in this case.

Stop talking. Yes. If you are a potential witness, stop giving interviews because you're tainting or having a hard enough time finding a jury pool and then you're going on 2020 and shit. Stop. You're ruining everything. Fucking ridiculous. So this guy said, you know, first he wiped the prints down, then he put it in Gus's hands and tried to like put it and close, close Gus's hand on it,

which that's the thing that doesn't work. Yeah. Is that you don't, that doesn't work. It doesn't look like. It doesn't matter how much you grip it. It's not like eyes that'll shut. No. You can't grip a hand.

Nope, it just looks like an action figure. You stuck a gun in their hand. That's what it looks like. So the cops always know that shit. Later, this guy says that Williams told everyone to say that they were all downstairs when this guy went up and killed himself on his own here. So according to the transcript,

this guy recalled how confident Jason seemed at dinner at the Mountain View Chalet in Hunterton County prior to the shooting, telling the group, quote, I'm the king of New Jersey My money is as long as train smoke That is some shit in New Jersey the king of New Jersey May train smoke and train smoke money. That's my money's as long as train smoke. He was bragging to people I'm the king of New Jersey as he limps around. Listen, Mr. fucking 11 points

a game at your peak. Calm down. Are you fucking joking? So the guy went on to say it was like he was back in his element. Now it's an NBA, it's a reunion. So they're just going on and they're telling stories and stories. Now the alcohol is starting to flow more and more, and every story is bigger and better. A night of bullshitting and all that. Statement issued by Williams Public Relations representative to HBO said, during the course of this case we've been faced with countless inaccuracies, false statements, and skewed allegations.

Mr. Bumbaco's statements are no different. His credibility and motive will be exposed. So he's expected to testify at the trial, this guy obviously here, clearly. So now January 21st, 2004, that's when the judge orders everybody to shut the fuck up. It's like the next day after all this, enough is enough now. Shut the fuck up. Button up them lips. Now February 5th, 2004 is when a very nasty story about Jason Williams comes out. Oh?

Very nasty story saying that he shot his own Rottweiler to death. Jason. Jason, this is a month before the show first shooting, by the way. He shot his own Rottweiler to death after losing a hundred dollar bet with a friend of his. He was mad, losing a hundred dollars. That had nothing to do with the dog.

No, no, no. It wasn't like that at all. He bet on the bangles and they didn't cover. He shot the dog. Oh my god. Like back in the day, like a joke of someone gets mad, comes home, punches his kid, kicks his dog. This guy shoots his dog. Even though his money is as long as train smoke, 100 bucks.

So shot his Rottweiler to death. This was six months before the shooting of the limo driver. I wouldn't care if it's six years. That's horrible. Fucking believe it. Unbelievable. After firing two rounds into Zeus, his dog. Oh Jesus.

A liquored up Williams loaded two more shells into a shotgun. That's just walking around the house gun. A loaded shotgun. Pointed it at NBA player Dwayne Schnitz. How? God, how the fuck did you say this? Schnitz?

Schnitz? Schnitz? I think it was. Schin-zuz? S-C-H-I-N-T-Z-I-U-S. Schin-zuz? Schin-zuz? I can't remember how the fuck you say his name, but I remember him very clearly.

I don't remember him. Nope. Don't, what? That guy played in the NBA. He looks like Brian Bosworth with brown hair. He looks like the father of the Incredibles. He's got the squareest jaw I've ever seen him at. Squareest whole head, James.

No need. He's a blockheaded motherfucker. I've never seen a blockhead like that. Never punch that guy in the head. Nothing will come of it. Look at his neck too, how thick it is. It's huge. I can barely tell because of the mullet. Holy shit, huge. And it's like a dry, flowy mullet too. It's like really, it's a real fucking mullet. That's a real mullet, man. He has thin ass hair, but a lot of it.

So I'm just going to call him Dwayne because it's his last name. I can you grow a lot of it. So I'm just gonna call him Dwayne, because it's his last name. I can't remember how to do it. His name matches that hair and head, that's for sure. It absolutely does. So anybody named Dwayne should have that hair, I feel like. White guys named Dwayne should certainly have flowy. Isn't that the name of the fucking,

the bounty hunter, isn't that his real name, Dwayne? Yeah, I think so. Isn't that his kid's name fucking the bounty hunter isn't that his real name? Yeah, I think so is it as a kid's name. I don't fucking remember Who cares? Fuck him hard good idiot. So he pointed loads the shotgun back up points it at Dwayne. Mr. Mullet Yeah, and said quote Shinbone get this fucking dog off my porch or you're next. So he made another NBA player then fucking clear his dead dog that he just murdered off the porch. Called him shin bone.

That's a shin bone. That's a, yeah. Shin is the shin is shin is whatever shin is. And so he called him shin bone because it's just much easier to pronounce. Get this fucking dog off my porch or your neck. So pick up a dead, bloody wounded dog, dead dog that I just shot, or else I'm going to shoot you. Which, again, that's a felony, I believe, to point a shotgun at someone and threaten

to kill them. Yeah, it's menacing, threatening, certainly attempted murder, right? Assault with a deadly weapon, but minimum. Very minimum, I would say. And also improper disposal of an animal, an animal cruelty probably as well, you could add to that. There's that too, yeah. So the prosecutors are asking the judge to permit Dwayne's testimony here,

which the defense lawyers are calling false and a smear. Oh. Why would Shinbone make this up? Oh, Shinbone. What the hell Shinbone got in there? He's got no fucking, he's got no meat in this fucking fire. So the prosecutor's also wanted the jury to hear another tale about a boozed up Jason Williams

being arrested for firing in the parking lot at the hubcaps there. The judge ruled that the two stories were too inflammatory to be heard by jurors. I don't need anybody to know that story. Like, okay, I'll give you the one in the parking lot, because that was years ago. No victims, no one was around.

No one was shot, it showed no cruelty or disregard for human life, essentially. He was shooting at an empty truck in an empty parking lot, so that's fine. Shooting your fucking dog with a shotgun in your fucking house, which is crazy, then, for no reason, by the way, which is a big deal, then pointing at a fucking ex-teammate

and telling him he's gonna kill him too, that is really relevant within six months of you murdering someone, quote unquote, allegedly. So, holy fucking shit, man. Before the judge ruled, they said the prosecutors had learned about the shooting of Zeus from an anonymous letter sent to them after Williams was charged with the killing. Investigators then tracked down old Shin Bone, and he spent a year on the nets in the mid-90s. Shin Bone told prosecutors that he'd been living

in training for a comeback at Williams Mansion in August of 2001 when he, Williams, and another friend, Chris Dockery, went out eating and drinking at the Mountain View Chalet in Asbury. That's his spot. That's his spot. I'm the king of the world. That was the same restaurant where they all went before the thing. Shin Bone told investigators that when they returned to the mansion that he bet Williams $100 that he could drag Zeus outside the house. That's what it was. So Williams said there's no way you can do that. Okay. So because his dog is no good. But the shin bone was smart the, first of all,

don't do this to your fucking dog, number one. What are you doing? But Shinbone didn't grab him by the collar and try to pull him, which would be the abnormal. He grabbed his hind legs and pulled him, which a dog can do nothing about. Can do nothing, yeah. So he grabbed the dog by the hind leg,

pulled it outside, and then said he wanted his money. So Williams, I guess Shinbone said his demeanor became very serious at that point and he said, okay, I'll pay you the hundred dollars. And then he left the room and came back with a shotgun and shot the fucking dog. So he said that he, uh, this is in Shinbone's words, the words of Shinbone quote, blasts one round into the side of the dog's head or into the side of the dog and another one into the side of Zeus's head almost Decapitating him for Zeus. I want Jason Williams in jail really bad right now

Why did we look fuck this guy in his asshole and his rich asshole? Wow We fucking filleted Michael Vick's career. Filleted him. For the same shit. I would even say this is- For less than. I mean that was a- now he killed, he was electrocuting dogs and shit. He was body slamming by their feet. He was doing wild shit like that. Yeah, he's a piece of shit too. But this is worse. This is just- Because he did that to dogs that didn't win their dog fight. He just did this to a dog that wouldn't- oh, Christ, man. It's almost like if a mob guy kills someone, it's like less of a- it's like, well, that's

his business and whatever, whereas if you just kill your wife, that's just some crazy shit. That's what this feels like. Michael Vick's thing was like disgusting and he was running the whole dog fighting ring and it was about money and everything like that but this is my pet at my house. This is so fucked up. Those weren't his pets. This is Jason Williams pet.

That's crazy. Those were like, it's like throwing away a knife that's too dull and doesn't work. But doing it really awful way. He treated them worse than fucking Ralphie treated pio my on the Sopranos But at least that's the same type of thing. This is his pet This is fucking crazy. You don't kill a pet. That's insane That is fucked up man. So Williams brother Victor then came out and was very upset indicating. That's my dog Why'd you shoot you shot my fucking dog stupid?

And his dog what did he say he was gonna do? Give him another dog. No, no. What do you think that he threatened Jason with, the brother? Um, I'll shoot your dog. No, he said, I'm gonna tell dad. He threatened to tell dad on him. I'm gonna tell dad you shot my dog. Oh my god. not I'm gonna call the cops or so. I'm gonna tell dad Wow, I'm gonna tell dad that is fucking amazing So Jason Williams left and then came back and threatened old shin bone with the shotgun telling him Him and dockery to get rid of the dead dog. So they bet they did they took the dog and buried it in the backyard of the dead dog so they did they took the dog and buried it in the backyard oh real nice friend go over to your fucking house go over to somebody's house so they and then they force you to fucking bury a dead dog at gunpoint that's fucking insane in front of you and threatened you with the same outcome

if you didn't move him Wow what a great fucking time this is right so this is maybe the most telling thing ever about Jason. Yeah, and I believe shinbone I do because he's not the only one saying it and you know, I did he has no reason to make this up whatsoever Right. Nobody knows that fucking blockhead. No, no, and it's not like he's this is like 2004 It's not like he's trying to get his tik-tok goingers, you know get more fucking Instagram followers. It's 2004 He was subs on my YT. Yeah You know, get more fucking Instagram followers. It's 2004. He wants- Need subs on my YT. Yeah.

So, I mean, he was just trying to get back in the NBA. This isn't going to help him. No. Anyway, E.J., Jason's father, called Shinbone's story a blatant lie and also called Shinbone, quote, an unstable man who's manipulative and uses people for his own good. Is that right? Shinnbone, this guy. I've never heard of him.

That's what I mean. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little known British territory called Pitcairn and it harbored a deep dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still emerge. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn trials I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique,

lonely Pacific Island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery+, in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Imagine you're walking through the park one day and you see a suspicious backpack sitting underneath a bench. You report it to the police and upon investigating, they discover two live pipe bombs inside.

You rush to clear the area before they explode, saving countless lives and preventing injury. Everyone declares you a hero for a fleeting moment until everything changes and you are declared the prime suspect. This was the story of security guard Richard Jewell. After the Centennial Park bombing killed one person and wounded more than 100, public pressure and a media witch hunt pushed a desperate FBI to find a suspect. Despite obvious holes in the case and unethical tactics used by the FBI, security guard Richard

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by joining Wondery Plus. Check him out. Manipulative ass block headed motherfucker, where's he from? He looks like fucking like Oster Tag if he had a mullet. He's like a mulleted Oster Tag mixed with Big Country and Brian Bosworth all mixed into one. Definitely.

His face looks like an eight year old though. He certainly looks like he's from Oklahoma, let's just put it that way. That's an Oklahoma mullet in the 90s, right? That's Arkansas. That man has, he's ridden a bull for sure. Somewhere on the I-40 he's from, I feel like, right? He knows what a bull costs.

That man knows livestock. He knows his livestock. Now, holy shit. So Jason Williams, let's introduce you to his legal dream team. Since we've had OJ's dream team, we know all about all those guys. Fucking, you know, Robert Shapiro and Johnny Cocker and all these guys. Let's talk about Jason Williams' dream team because he is spending a fuckload of money on this shit.

Oh, you should, yeah. He has more money than O.J., so that's something. Yeah. James, his money's longer than train smoke. Train smoke. That's a long way. Yeah, that's a lick goes for miles. That's long.

Yeah. Train smoke like it's the old west. So leading the team of attorneys, consultants and public relations executives, imagine what that costs. That's just, I got like a pain in my stomach just thinking about what the bills for that would be. Our two defense lawyers who have decades of experience on both sides of the courtroom, Joseph Hayden, considered one of New Jersey's best criminal defense lawyers.

He represented Williams since he's been charged. That was the guy he got right away. Hayden's father was an attorney in Essex County and his wife is a federal court judge in Newark. Billy Martin, not the Yankee manager Billy Martin, who was dead for 10 years by this point. But Billy Martin, who by the way, we're going to do a multi-parter on Billy Martin, not the Yankee manager Billy Martin, who was dead for 10 years by this point. But Billy Martin, who by the way, we're going to do a multi-parter on Billy Martin one of these days. That is going to be the most entertaining fucking thing ever of all time.

Can't wait for that. Billy Martin 54 regarded as one of the go to lawyers in Washington DC. Among his clients are sports celebrities and Marsha Lewis, Monica Lewinsky's mother. He's a partner at Blank Rome, a law firm in the nation's capital. He's a former prosecutor in Cincinnati. Holy shit. So we got these people. Also Judy Smith, a Washington DC based public relations consultant.

Remember, she's the lady with, if you hear a crazy quote denying shit, it's out of her mouth. We're saying she's the silver haired middle-aged white man of the episode here, Judy Smith. I guess she was a deputy press secretary for the first Bush administration. Then there's Michael T. Kelly, former prosecutor in New York State and an expert in forensics, former superior court judge Leonard Arnold who was on the appellate division before his retirement and is lending his expertise to the defense behind the scenes, and Joe Ellen Demetrius, a jury consultant who worked on the O.J. Simpson case.

Imagine what all those people cost. Very smart guys to get. Yeah. But he's gonna lose everything he's got. He's been paying these people for almost three years. Yeah. And now we're gonna go to trial, which is where the real bills come in. It's just retainer shit until then.

Wow. They said the attorneys have researched everything from the past testimony of the prosecution's expert witnesses to the judge's appeals record. They said the defense will not miss anything. That's a defense attorney who's not working on the case, but watching it. He said they won't miss an answer, they won't miss an objection, I doubt they'll miss a

question. And that was the OJ's legal team strategy was challenge everything. If they said that morning the sky was blue, we object and say where's the proof the sky was blue, even though we know the sky is blue. We object and say when does morning stop? Yep. That's how blue was it? What shade of blue?

How can you say it's a blue if you don't know what shade of blue? That's what it is, though. That's challenge everything. And if you watch the OJ trial, they get so far in the weeds on shit that didn't matter. The jury didn't even know what the hell the person was up there to testify for because it took

a week and a half of questions. So that's a thing you can do. You just have to testify for because it took a week and a half of questions. So that's a thing you can do. You just have to pay for it. The defense team has already been criticized by Superior Court Judge Edward Coleman after Williams and his wife Tanya granted television interviews during jury selection. The attorney said they hadn't known of the interviews. Your public relations person didn't know that you went on 2020. Really? Holy sh... Your public relations person didn't know that you went on 2020. Really. Holy shit.

You're rubbing a belly? Yeah. You got that on your own. You called. Jason Williams called up Barbara Walters and said, I'd like to come by for a fucking chit chat. I doubt it. Hey Barb, Babs, how are you?

Babs, how's it going? Bring fucking, I don't even know the other people in there. Bring Morley Safers fucking old ass, roll him in here. Who else you got on? Ed Bradley, bring Ed Bradley along god damn it. He's on 60 minutes, I don't know anybody else. 60 minutes, 20, I don't fucking know. Is he 60 minutes or 20, 20?

I don't know. You're asking, bring Hugh Downs in here, I don't give a shit. They're all the fucking same. That's what I mean. Don't ask softball, ask questions, don't ask anything that matters. Old people that interview people

in living room looking like settings. That's who we're looking at here. Well, the only people we challenge are Scott Peterson. Thank fuck for that, by the way. That was awesome. Thank God. Yeah. He was so bad.

How do you not? They're like, you haven't mentioned your wife once at all. That's kind of weird, right? You haven't mentioned your baby once. Oh, yeah. No, no. I really, I'm really sad about that. I miss that little rug rat. Oh, no, I really, I'm really sad about that.

I miss that little rug rat. Oh boy. Hardly knew him. Jesus fuck, that's so funny. I haven't said anything, because I haven't even met him yet. Yeah. Jesus shit. You fucking loser.

Oh my God, meanwhile, he's got all his old office furniture stuffed into the room. Sitting on his crib. Unbelievable. And he sells his wife's car a week after she goes missing. I swear, I'm waiting for her to come home any minute, I don't get it. Well, you know, the Range Rover's a notoriously expensive

vehicle to keep maintaining, I gotta get rid of it. Jesus, fuck. So the defense team has already been criticized by the judge after that. And then they also said the Coleman, who's the judge, told Hayden, the defense attorney, that he was insulted by Hayden's suggestion of the black attorney.

Hayden, who is very tall, he's like six foot seven or some shit, I guess, from what I understand, played at Boston College, played football as a Boston College student, his lawyer, and went on to earn a law degree at Rutgers. So he was the Deputy Attorney General, the first in the Division of Criminal Justice. Hayden tried his first case in New Jersey, which was an information from a wiretap was used at evidence. Now among defendants represented by Hayden in the past, Barry Flowers, a Livingstone businessman accused of manslaughter after

his boat ran over a fishing craft in 2000, killing three men. This asshole in his giant boat said, you get the fuck out of the way and ran over three guys in a rowboat and this guy, that's who he represents, a rich guy. Wow. I mean, on the ocean, the bigger vessel has the right away. I mean, sympathetic run over guys and little boats. No fuck a jury deadlocked on the manslaughter charges. And we don't know if this guy was like in a shallow area where

people are just bass fishing and plowing through here. We have no idea that he didn't just back out of the fucking skid the slip slip and bring over somebody. Three dudes drinking a beer. Jesus. So they deadlocked the jury on those charges. Flowers eventually pleaded guilty to one count of each of death by vessel and assault by

vessel. Wow. Now, William Grunnau, which was a Green Brook businessman charged in 83 with murdering his lover's husband and stuffing the body in an oil drum They represented these guys. This the one guy here does hate Hayden convinced the jury the killing was in self-defense How do you self-defense into a into a drum self-defense you leave a motherfucker where they lay and you go I killed this guy. He was trying to kill me. You don't stuff him into an oil drum and self-defense, you leave a motherfucker where they lay, and you go, I killed this guy, he was trying to kill me.

You don't stuff him into an oil drum in self-defense. I'd never heard of that before. You're much safer if that person is sealed inside an oil drum. Wow. He ended up being convicted of aggravated manslaughter rather than murder and was paroled. Harry Insobella, a Franklin Township dentist

accused of participating in a 1995 jewelry store robbery. That didn't go where I thought it was going to go. In which the owner's wife was shot and killed. Wow. Jesus. The case ended with a hung jury and the murder charge was later dropped when Isabella pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit robbery, perjury and other charges. Oh my God. And this guy, by the way, was released and it was currently, while this article came out, was seeking restoration of his dentistry license. Doesn't even get to drill molars anymore. Oh, fucking A, that is crazy.

So another person says, you'll never find anyone better prepared to try a case than this lawyer. You can expect to see a lot of determination, a lot of common sense, and above all tremendous credibility to this person says, to a great extent, his success as an attorney is that ultimately the jurors conclude that the things Joseph Hayden told them were important were really the important issues in the case. He's a good water muddier or water muddier. Yeah, that's what he's good at. He's very good at that, seems like. So yeah, they go through his people here.

His other guy, one other lawyer he has, represented Joanne Howard, who was cleared of sexual assault charges. Joanne's really, ooh. As well as- He's put himself in it a few times. Fuck yeah, as well as a witness in the slaying of the Baylor murder of Patrick Dennehy jr. The Carlton Dotson Yes, we got a redo that case too

Yeah, just because we didn't have all couldn't get all that's a crazy story. That shit was nuts. The guy goes He's the real deal. He's on the short list of criminal defense lawyers He has terrific instincts and cuts through the stuff. He cuts through the stuff Just say shit you fucking loser. Cuts through the stuff. February 12, 2004 Jason Williams wife thanks supporters online. Yeah. Tanya Williams said the website www.myjasonwilliams.com What? Will also serve as a therapeutic tool to share her feelings at the end of each day of the criminal trial It's a think it still exists. I don't know there might be a dash between Jason and Williams But the dash might just be the next line in the newspaper the way they do that. So

My Jason with a Y. I think that's what it is. I think it's, let's see if it's still, it's gone. It's gone, I figured that. This was a website to thank the supporters and for her to vent as well. So even though there's a gag order, Tanya Williams isn't included in the instruction

and the judge said when issuing, she's not not a witness the judge said when issuing his order that if she did not adhere she would he would consider removing her from the courtroom so stop doing it or I'll remove you from the courtroom yeah in the televised interview Tanya Williams didn't discuss anything because she wasn't there so her wasn't you know wasn't around wasn't, you know, wasn't around, wasn't near the gunshot, but she said, Jason's side of the story, the truth about this horrible, unforeseeable accident can finally be told. Over the past few years, we have had to endure —

We're victims. Wow. Strategically malicious and vindictive allegations. Like I said, false representations against our family and against Jason primarily." You fucking douchebag. They said, many of you have been angered by the false allegations and misrepresentations levied against my husband. It angers me too. Everyone's real pissed. Yet I know that these lies and uendos and distortions shall be eradicated through our

trial and I will allow our attorneys to appropriately do this. I'll unleash the attorneys to say how false it is. February 19th, 2004, state police investigators, two years ago when this all happened, found three loaded firearms and at least 50 shotgun shells in Jason's bedroom that night. 50 shotgun shells in his bedroom? In his bedroom and three loaded firearms. Wow. The firearms and ammunition were among more than 60 items shown to jurors in this aggravated

manslaughter trial, followed by testimony from detectives who had collected and photographed the evidence of the crime scene. Four shotguns, two of which were loaded, and a rifle containing five rounds of ammunition were all taken from a gun cabinet in his bedroom, the same bedroom where this dude was killed. Also among the items were Christophe's blood-soaked clothing, a pack of Pall Mall cigarettes, and a nylon wallet

– this is Christophe, this poor son of a – this guy's living in a fucking giant mansion. Christophe had a fucking nylon wallet, like you give an eight-year-old as their first wallet, with photographs, credit cards, and a whopping $28 in cash. This poor motherfucker, man. That is awful. Later, jurors were shown photographs of the contents of Jason Williams' wallet. Inside the leather billfold, not nylon for him, were several credit cards, Williams'

driver's license, and $2,310 in cash. He just carries around with him. Jesus, man. State police investigator, detective here, said he collected 47 loose shotgun shells and two spent shotgun shells, one of which was from the 12 gauge Browning that killed Christophe. Detailed pictures were taken by the cops of Christophe's body showing the limo driver lying on an Oriental rug in the bedroom nearly 10 feet away from the shotgun, which had a white paint chip on the inside of the lower barrel."

And he said he doesn't know how that got there, the forensic guy. Wagner also confirmed reports from troopers who testified Tuesday saying investigators knew immediately that Christophe's death was not a suicide. They said, it didn't seem as if it was a straightforward suicide. I realized this scene had been compromised to a certain extent. The Wagner guy said he also collected a gray t-shirt and dark blue jeans from Williams that night. Clothes he believed that Williams had been wearing

during the shooting. But during cross-examination, he said he never directly asked Williams if those were the clothes he had worn all night, which we know they weren't now. Testimony revealed that 12 shotgun pellets were extracted from Christophe's body during a five-hour autopsy, and the pellets were the full load of 12-gauge cartridge fired by the gun, which got him all... They're all stuck. They were in a bedroom together.

It wasn't like across a yard. And close. And close, yeah. A second investigator said that he found Williams' long black leather coat inside the van Christophia driven that evening. They said that Williams' wallet was found in the coat's breast pocket. In earlier briefs, the prosecutors had said Williams had driven his own car from the Mountain View Chalet Union Township to his home that night. He tried to lie and say the guy didn't even drive me that night.

That's how arrogant he fucking is. If I say it they'll believe me because my money is long as train smoke and I'm the king of New Jersey. Jesus Christ. They don't know why it was in the van. He might have forgot him. They don't know why it was in the van. He might have forgot them. I forgot the wallet in the van. Also found in the van was Christophe's brown suede jacket, a photocopied map of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, an empty Fujifilm quick snap disposable camera box and wrapper. Prosecutors have said that he was an avid sports fan and brought a disposable camera

to the restaurant and to Williams' home to take a picture with the guys because he's a sports fan. Jesus fuck. March 4th 2004, let's bring Benoit Bunjammin into this fucking... Hell yeah, Benoit. He's accused of lying, Benoit here. Yes, Benoit Benjamin, who's also a former Harlem Globetrotter and teammate of him, he said that he saw a shell in a cracked open shotgun Jason Williams was holding before he flipped it closed and then shot Gus.

So he like checked to make sure it was loaded first. Wow. He said he was in the master bedroom about three feet away from Williams when the shooting occurred. Jesus, that must've been loud. Immediately before the shooting, Williams allegedly cursed at Christoffy demanding to know why the driver was in his bedroom.

Meanwhile, it was he was taking people around the houses for a tour. Yeah. And he decided to try to punk out the limo driver. What are you doing in my bedroom? Yeah. You fucking asshole. That's what it was? Yeah, he said that's what he did. Benoit Bunjam and said during more than four hours of testimony that's what he said. Benjamin I guess is a key witness because he was three feet away and offered pretty damaging testimony. Sure. But his testimony came with discrepancies. He first said he saw Williams pull the trigger.

Later he said he did not know exactly where Williams' fingers were on the gun, except they were around the trigger guard. And when he held the 12 gauge shotgun that killed him, Benra, Benjamin, I keep wanting to call him Benoit, Benjamin demonstrated how Williams flipped the close, flipped closed the gun while putting his finger completely through the trigger guard.

The night of the shooting after the group died, Benoit said, Bunjaman here said that they were invited to the whole thing. While in the bedroom, he saw him take a cracked open shotgun out of the gun cabinet, flip the gun up and it fired. That's what he said. He said in what direction did he flip the gun up? And he said directly in front of Gus. Jesus.

When asked if he said anything immediately before the shotgun fired, he said that Williams used expletives when talking with Christophe. He also testified that Williams, who drove Benjamin and everybody else from the dinner there, was driving his Bentley so erratically

That Benjamin feared for his life and said a prayer for God to protect him He said that Williams had been drinking white wine at the restaurant had a few shots of liquor at the end of the night and The owner and waitress at the Mountain View chalet testified They did not notice if Williams had anything to drink. They could probably check the receipt here. The waitress, Margaret Di Matteo, said the former Nets star did not seem drunk. The state is trying to prove that he acted recklessly and possibly while drunk. Here, that's the whole point. Now after Benjamin reluctantly showed the court how Williams held the shotgun that night,

defense attorneys wanted the record to show that Benjamin put his finger through the trigger guard as opposed to on the trigger, setting the stage for a key argument in their case. See, they're just muddying the waters of where the guy was three feet away and he said he cursed at him, flipped the gun up and it shot. Doesn't fucking matter where his finger is,

but I guess there's, you know, that's what I mean. So Williams' attorney Billy Martin attacked Benjamin on cross-examination, accusing him of lying on the witness stand because Williams refused to help him find a job after the shooting. So he's going through all this and now perjuring himself because Williams wouldn't help him find a job. What the shit? That's a really weak, weak, weak fucking motivation.

Benjamin denied Martin's claims, but admitted he had his agent contact Williams in hopes of getting a job on one of Williams' traveling teams or making some connections. He said, I hope that possibly I could obtain a job. He said, Jason knows a lot of people, and he had traveling teams and whatnot. The attorney also said that Benjamin lied

to defense investigators during an informal meeting in Louisiana. Benjamin said he was not obligated to tell investigators anything but added he had not told the entire truth because he didn't trust them. They weren't cops. They were Jason Williams investigators. So you don't have to tell the law does not say you have to tell private investigators hired by the defendant anything. You can tell them aliens. I saw Martians shoot Christophe. It doesn't fucking matter. So he's not under oath.

There's no deposition. None of it matters. So the 39-year-old Benjamin, who's seven feet tall, they said was wearing a white mink coat the night of the shooting, told Martin he was upset at the restaurant after Williams began telling jokes about him. One joke, as Martin told it, began with a white basketball player who had a C on the back of his jerseys. A group of players inquired what the letter stood for, and Williams said it stood for

Caucasian, according to Martin Because that's what he thought He said I got a little pissed off because I took it as I took it as him insulting my intelligence Somebody insults your intelligence. Of course, it's gonna get on your nerves Benjamin said So Jason was saying he was so dumb. He thought Caucasian started with a K. Yeah Jason was saying he was so dumb he thought Caucasian started with a K. Yeah. Martin was also quick to point out that Benjamin testified with immunity, meaning the authorities agreed not to prosecute him for originally lying to police in a sworn statement because everybody was told to lie in the beginning.

Yeah. That's why. So now they're trying to say, it's amazing that the guy who told him to lie, now he's on the stand testifying against him and they're like, oh, but you lied. It's amazing that the guy who told him to lie, now he's on the stand testifying against him and they're like, oh, but you lied. It's like, but he told me to lie. That's why I lied. But you lied. But yes, because your guy told me to.

He's the guy pulling the fucking lying strings and you're saying I'm a liar? Your guy- He's building, yeah. Instructed me to fucking lie. That's wild. March 12, 2004, expert testifies shot driver was in close range. A forensic scientist, Henry Lee, he's the guy from OJ and a lot of other trials,

he's been completely discredited recently. Lately been completely discredited as a complete fraud basically. Poor Hank. He said that the shooting was four to five feet away Yeah, lately been completely discredited as a complete fraud basically. He said that the shooting was four to five feet away when the shots occurred. The barrel of the gun was six inches to 18 inches away from Christophe. You know, that's so close, man. That is so fucking close.

Oh, the 12 gauge? Forget it. Jesus Christ. That's way too close. Holy shit. Also a DNA expert testified that the handprint left on the shotgun contained at least three samples of DNA, two of which could have come from Williams and Christoffey. Neither Lee, chief emeritus of the Connecticut State Police Forensics Laboratory, who gained

national fame by testifying for the defense in the O.J. Simpson case, nor DNA expert Mitchell Holland provided any shocking testimony, but what they did say during the trial was, you know, shit that you needed to have said, essentially. You don't shoot anything that close with a shotgun that you're not trying to destroy. To absolutely obliterate. I've fired shotguns nowhere near that close,

like several feet away. And... It does damage. Yeah, when you do it that close close like several feet away and it does damage Yeah, when you do it that close even even ten feet away It's it's a it's a goof because you're about to explode this and it's I don't know. It's kind of funny If shit comes back, that's not funny But when it takes it all apart you go wow that wow, that was, and that was so far away in comparison to this.

This is, yeah, you may as well be touching him. 18 inches. That's so close. Yeah, that's going to, you're going to get burns on you from that. That's going to explode him. So he testifies, Henry Lee, I think he's testifying for the prosecution here though. He's saying that the gun is primarily a skeet shooting gun. He said it was pointed at Christofi when it fired

and had been moved after the shooting. He said blood spatters were found on Christofi's body, on a nearby piece of clothing, and on molding around the door. He also testified that Christofi's body had been touched after the shooting due to blood smears on his clothing that were inconsistent with his wounds and the fact that he was standing when he was shot.

He said, my assertion is the gun has been moved. Who moved it? I don't know. So the defense attorney asked Lee whether he was ever asked to test clothing worn by Williams or Benjamin, who testified last week he was standing three feet away. And he said, I can provide some answers, but not all answers. And they also asked, they, Lee also suggested that the barrel of the shotgun where he noticed a smudge be dusted for fingerprints. He said it's not readable but if there's a smudge you may get a DNA result. DNA has been moved to a third generation level.

A swab was later taken of the handprint which was tested for DNA. They said the DNA doesn't provide positive identification but can rule out those who didn't contribute. They said the DNA doesn't provide positive identification but can rule out those who didn't contribute. They said they found at least three different people's DNA on there, and they said neither Williams nor Christofi's profile could be excluded from that. So there you go.

Prosecution rests on March 18, 2004. They arrested, they presented 36 witnesses in 15 days and they're basically just trying to show that he was reckless when handling a shotgun. You don't have to have any ill will or intent. It's just you can't be... You holding a deadly weapon, if you handle it negligently you're liable for any damage it causes. Especially if you've had eight drinks. For sure.

That's even worse. Yeah. Get behind the wheel of a car after eight drinks and hit somebody. You're negligent and you're responsible. Yeah, I'm sure you didn't mean to kill that person, but you're pretty fucking responsible though. So, and also the champering with witnesses

and everything like that. So yeah, they end up doing that March 26 2014 now. They're saying they get an expert on here weapons expert for the defense Says that Jason Williams was handling the gun when it shot and killed the limousine driver He said it was a malfunction of the gun caused by built-up debris function of the gun caused by built-up debris causes the gun to just fire indiscriminately there's a lot of pressure in there with wow a lot of debris I got a lot of there's coffee cans oh there's all sorts of shit in there we found like a couple of like dry cleaning receipts in there he must have. There's all sorts of dryer sheets

He said it's my opinion that this shotgun is basically an accident waiting to happen He said this is Richard who said that dick Ernest He earns his dick. He earns his dick this guy So afterward the Superior Court judge Coleman asked jurors to disregard that comment about, in his opinion, it's an accident waiting to happen. Well, here's the thing about accident, build up and such from firing it too much, it doesn't so much as make it go off crazy,

as much as it does stop it from. Stop, I've heard of that. It would stop it. Yeah, it would hinder the cooperation. It wouldn't make it overwork. Work better. Well, he said, especially what he says was in there, Ernest said a large amount of debris,

including several wood chips found in the shotgun, wouldn't that stop? Yeah. Found in the shotgun. Could have led to discharge without a trigger pull. After showing jurors several enlarged photos depicting a shotgun mechanism, Ernest compared the wear and tear

on Williams' 10-year-old shotgun to a new shotgun. A new browning in the area between the hammer and the firing pin consists of a ledge of metal that measures 14 to 16 thousandths of an inch or the width of three sheets of typing paper. But in Williams' shotgun, the metal has been worn down significantly. These surfaces are not going to be able

to mate together properly, and they are hanging by a thread. So this is very interesting. No, and you shouldn't point it at people anyway. There's a good way. This is the reason why you don't point guns at people, because you don't know exactly how perfect everything's working, and either way, don't you don't point guns at people, because you don't know exactly how perfect everything's working,

and either way, don't get drunk and point guns. But there are weapons that are hundreds of years old, that people have used. I was just going to say that to their family heirlooms. They still fire them. There's whole societies of people that only fire black powder rifle shit, like civil war level fucking guns, firing fucking balls out, not even bullets.

My dad has an 1892 Rossi and it fires just fine. Yeah, that's fucking ridiculous. So Ernest was called to refute key testimony from prosecution gun expert who was Sergeant James Ryan who said that William's shotgun wouldn't fire without the trigger being pulled despite repeated tests to get it to do otherwise. Like the defense first witness, renowned forensic psychologist Michael Bodden, or pathologist Michael Bodden,

who's a complete fucking hack and discredited douchebag as well. He's worse, I think, because he's worse to me because he's like, I'm a TV star. Like he's got an ego that doesn't quit this fucking guy. Calm down, you Ron Jeremy looking motherfucker. Yeah, fat fuck. So he was here basically to attack the credibility

of Benoit Bunjammin and say that Ernest said that a shell in the lower barrel can't even be seen by the person handling the weapon when its 3 quarters cracked open. At a time when we're debating where policing is going, we're going to tell you where the police came from. They wanted me to write about the New York City Police Department, but without using the words violence or corruption,

which is effectively impossible. A story of how the largest and most influential police department in the country became one of the most violent and corrupt organizations in the world. It doesn't matter if you're a self-emancipated law person or if you're a free... They're just sending people back to the south, kidnapping them. When officers with the power to fight the danger become the danger. I was terrified. I'm not going to talk to the police because they're the ones who are perpetrating this. Who am I going to talk to? From Wondry and Crooked Media, I'm Chinjirah Kumanika,

and this is Empire City, the untold origin story of the NYPD. Follow Empire City on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondry Plus right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Imagine you're walking through the park one day and you see a suspicious backpack sitting underneath a bench. You report it to the police and upon investigating, they discover two live pipe bombs inside. You rush to clear the area before they explode, saving countless lives and preventing injury.

Everyone declares you a hero for a fleeting moment until everything changes and you are declared the prime suspect. This was the story of security guard Richard Jewell. After the Centennial Park bombing killed one person and wounded more than 100, public pressure and a media witch hunt pushed a desperate FBI to find a suspect. Despite obvious holes in the case and unethical tactics used by the FBI, security guard Richard Jewell was under pressure to confess. I'm Aaron Habel.

And I'm Justin Evans. Join us as we explore the aftermath of the 1996 centennial Olympic Park bombing and the newest season of our podcast, Generation Y, the Olympic Park bombing. Follow Generation Y on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus. Being a part of a royal family might seem enticing, but more often than not, it comes at the expense of everything, like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head. Even the Royals is a podcast from Wondery that pulls back the curtain on royal families, past and present, from all over the world to show you the darker side of what it means to be royalty.

Like the true stories behind the six wives of Henry VIII, whose lives were so much more than just divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived. Or Esther of Burundi, a princess who fled her home country to become France's first black supermodel. There's also Queen Christina of Sweden, an icon who traded in dresses for pants, had an affair with her lady-in-waiting,

and eventually gave up her crown because she refused to get married. Throw in her involvement in a murder and an attempt to become Queen of Poland, and you have one of the most unforgettable legacies in royal history. Follow even the royals on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge even the royals ad-free right now on Wondery Plus. Oh, so it's an under over. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because it was like an Elmer Fudd. We just figured it out. March 31st, 2004, witnesses say, a witness says,

depressed star told pals to, quote, tell the truth later on. They said in the weeks after a limousine driver was shot and killed, that's when he told houseguests to tell the truth about the incident to authorities. You know, after his lawyers probably told him, you're gonna get charged with tampering with witnesses if you tell them to lie. And perjury.

Your friends are going to jail for perjury. Yeah, that's, well no, they'll get immunity to testify against you, dummy, but. Yeah, but I mean, if they don't tell the truth, they're going to jail for perjury. Fuck yeah. So you don't have to tell them to tell the truth. They get it.

Fuck. So Troy Jackson, a professional basketball player and entertainer on ESPN Network Streetball said... Oh, Troy, I've never heard of you motherfucker. Never heard of that show. Said that days after the February 14th shooting, that friends, quote, had to almost literally drag a depressed Williams out of the house to play pickup basketball Gee he it's almost like he's

He fucking killed a guy you think he should be depressed at that point He should have felt this way after blasting his own dog Yeah, this is how he should have felt for a long time his brother's dog Not even has yeah during one of the, some five to 10 days after the shooting, Kent Kalukow and John Goodrick called Williams to a corner of the court and said, Jay, we don't know what to do. What do you want us to say? You're offering to lie.

Williams replied, if you guys want to talk about the case, I'm not coming to the gym anymore. Just tell the truth. I was like, I don't want to talk about it. So the six foot ten Jackson, who described himself as one of Williams best friends since childhood, was called by the defense to bring out inconsistencies in statements made by Coluco, a former friend who testified against Williams as part of a plea agreement. Coluco said he talked with Williams after the shooting, but did not mention the conversation at a gym in Rochelle Park. But Jackson also ended up testifying about his friendship with Williams, showed jurors pictures of Williams' 65-acre estate and several of his vintage cars. Is

that what you do in a murder trial? You show off your goods to the jury? Evidently. I mean, if I got a vintage car and I'm on trial, let's talk about that for a little bit. I can't be guilty I have a 68 GTO this is ridiculous. We gotta talk about it. No way. I got a lot of money in this motor let's talk about it. He said he playfully mocked Williams about one of his vintage automobiles calling it a terrible car in contrast to the luxury SUVs that other basketball players owned. What is it, a Corvair? It's, yeah, it's probably a hot shit muscle car. Yeah, yeah, it's fucking cool as shit. Much better than some disposable fucking Lincoln Navigator.

So Williams roared with laughter when Jackson told defense attorney Billy Martin that he was 300 to 375 pounds, give or take breakfast. That's what he told him. I guess Billy Martin's, or Jackson is a big guy. Very funny guy. The fourth day of the defense's case also included a firearms expert

who reiterated Jason Williams' shotgun fired as a result of a malfunction, a malfunction in a private detective who attempted to attack the credibility of Benoit Benjamin. John T. Butrus, a Texas engineer, repeated what the defense's first weapons expert said. He said it's possible for this shotgun to discharge in the absence of a willful trigger

pull. It's impossible. He said, wood chips, rust, metal shavings, and other dirt could have lodged in crucial areas of the trigger mechanism, especially because the shotgun was warned and contained a film of oil that could have caused debris to stick. How does that make it shoot though? How does that make a bullet fly out? I don't understand how their shell fly out. How the fuck do you sleep at night, you son of a bitch?

Wow, that is fucking wild. So they said that roughly half hour, oh, this is a an investigator said in a roughly half-hour conversation with Benoit Benjamin The center never said anything about Williams cursing at Christophe before the shooting This is one of Williams investigators that Benjamin said I didn't trust the guy so I didn't tell him shit Benjamin testified that he did curse obviously now They said that they went over his need for a job and all that kind of shit here. I guess they testified that he, the defense investigator testified that he told Benjamin

over the phone that the defense would not consider anything concerning money or a job, but the detective still flew to Louisiana the next day with another private investigator and said before any of these discussions could take place I set the ground rules there wasn't any way we were going to talk without a job money or any payoff of any kind yeah so Benjamin said you're not giving me shit I ain't telling you shit so I don't know here um April 1st 2004 Williams won't testify and the defense rests Williams won't testify and the defense rests. Wow. He is cocky, man. He's not going to testify.

This gun can just go off on its own. We rest. I settle everything on that. He told a judge that he's innocent because the judge asked you, you don't want to testify. And he said, no, I'm innocent and I have great confidence in the jurors who will free me, basically. Wow. Jury is not in the court when he says this, obviously, but he says, I am innocent, I put my trust in God,

and I have great confidence in this jury. Okay. He said he made his decision after discussions with his wife and defense teams, and he told the judge he understands his rights, but he's pulling out here. So, the defense has not decided whether it wants the judge to tell the jury Williams is not obligated to testify

Why wouldn't you tell someone that you'd have to tell the jury always that you can't hold the fact that he didn't testify against him That's part of the jury instructions. It's not doesn't have to testify So he said the jury the judge gave Williams that choice after he didn't want to testify It's so weird the suggestion that Williams might testify was made during opening statements. Defense lawyer Billy Martin told jurors Jason Williams will tell you what happened that night. Jason Williams will tell you how this horrific, totally unforeseeable accident occurred. Now as a juror, you can't hold it against somebody for not testifying at all.

But when a prosecutor says or a defense attorney, any attorney says in opening statements, this is what I'll tell you and this is who will tell you. And then they don't. They're a liar now and you don't like you don't trust them. That's what happens is you have to in opening arguments, you want to you want to under promise and over deliver and then in closing arguments, then you can fucking look at the mountain we built. But when you say Jason Williams is going to tell you out of his own mouth, you say that twice and then he doesn't testify. I go, why didn't Jason Williams? I thought he was going to tell me out of his own mouth.

So it's a different issue. So that's that's kind of interesting. April 15 2004, Jason and Tanya welcomed their second daughter. Isn't that sweet? He's been having unprotected sex this whole time. Yeah, she was pregnant the whole time. Remember, she went on 2020 pregnant. So that is really fucking funny here.

They got a seven pound, four ounce girl, according to Judy Smith, the publicist. She said, mother, daughter, and father are doing fine. We would assume he's doing fine. ounce girl according to Judy Smith the publicist she said mother daughter and father are doing fine we would assume he's doing fine this is triumph J J a y e J turn name yes triumph with a Y as well too guess where it is so anyway April 27th 2014 jury is still out 2014, jury is still out here. Jury is still out. Assistant prosecutor in his closing said,

"'Accident? What about any of this is an accident? It's reckless conduct.'" Right. Defense attorney said there was unforeseeable accident happening by the malfunction of an old shotgun. You know, it happens to anybody. We've all shot someone in our

bedroom an old shotgun old shotgun it's 10 years old expiration dates when they get real old they're like milk they really are once there you got to smell them first before you use it oh no this one's not bad it went bad man it went bad I think your shotgun's turned. Williams attorney Hayden said that you add up all these facts and they add up to an accident. They don't add up to a crime? Duh. Jesus Christ. So that's how that goes.

You know, what the fuck, man? They said the defense attorney said the state did not do Williams justice. The state had a job to investigate a crime not figure out There's an NBA player involved in an accident. Can I make that a crime? Yeah, I think the only reason why he wasn't taken away and cuffs that very fucking night is because he was an NBA player Probably anybody else they would be like, oh he shot him by accident and that motherfuckers going to jail Even if it's an accident, we'll figure it out later They tell you that when you buy, when you get a CCW, when you get your concealed weapon,

they'll tell you right away, don't shoot anybody because you're going to jail. And then you sort it out from there. But you will be charged first. You're going to jail. And then they'll figure it out. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. They always take you.

Unless you're Laurie Vallow's brother there. Then they just... Evidently they just go, they high five you and turn you loose. They still took him to jail, or not to jail, to the police station, but he was out in like two hours. Where they high five him. Yeah, they're like, good job, good job. They said the defense has been, it's everyone else's fault except the defendants, is what the prosecution said.

Where's the responsibility? Where's the responsibility? Where's the accountability? Yeah. So they said on February 14th, Jason Williams chose to play with a deadly weapon. Jason Williams chose to play with life and death. In that reckless game of life and death, he killed Gus Christoffi.

Accident is no defense. That's what they're saying. So Williams here, here comes the jury. The jury is in. Aggravated manslaughter is the top charge. He is found not guilty of aggravated manslaughter. Holy shit. I don't, wow, that is.

Why? Because he had very good lawyers that muddied the waters with tons of experts telling them that a shotgun wood chips make it fire. That's why he got wood chips in it. Wow. No good.

Wow. That is amazing, man. But he is found guilty of covering up the death. So a mistrial was declared on the charge of reckless manslaughter after the jurors said they were unable to reach a unanimous decision. Their final vote there was 8-4 to acquit, which is fucking crazy. They said that, wow, that's fucking wild. Yeah, Williams showed no emotion, but he rocked from side to side. His supporters were banging on the pews saying as all the not guilty charges were read man's aggravated manslaughter reckless assault possession of a weapon for an unlawful

purpose after the verdicts were complete he kissed his wife so now he faces a maximum of 13 years in prison although sentencing guidelines make it more likely that he'll get less than five or even or receive only probation. Holy. That is fucking wild. Outside the courthouse, Billy Martin, the lawyer said, this means that after 30 years as a lawyer, our system can work. Yes, our system has never ever treated extremely wealthy people fairly. You're absolutely- finally a rich guy can shoot a poor guy in his living room and not

have to deal with all this riff-raff jail bullshit that we have. We finally got all the wood chips out of the system. Wow, all the metal shavings and wood chips. This is- that is the most insulting fucking thing I've ever heard. This isn't some fucking homeless person who was accused of stabbing a society woman and the proof came to the surface and we all know this is a rich cunt who shoots things who shoots things and has his cop buddies tell people to fucking cover it up and everything else. This is insane

This is the exact guy that the system has always worked for and will always work for people with money as long as train smoke Yeah, wow, that is fucking horrific tragic accident jurors said Williams was guilty of the cover-up by destroying Fingerprints on the shotgun and on Christophe's body. Yeah, they couldn't find a way to acquit him for that, or they would have. Can't make that go away. Fuck, telling witnesses to lie. But the only reason to make that go away is because you know you just did something wrong. That's what I'm saying. And the fact that he lied to police handing over clothes that he knew he wasn't wearing

when he shot the guy. So he gave his friends to Gordniknik who hid them atop a highway underpass for two weeks before turning them over to police. Jesus. Gordnik gets to plead guilty to tampering with evidence and testified there as well. He said that Williams handed him the clothes and said, here JG, everybody is this guy's servant. Bury my dog, get rid of my clothes. Fuck you, clean up your own crimes, you asshole. I would hate this guy. Man, jurors concluded that Williams had not tampered with Christophe's body,

even though we know that he probably did. So that is fucking, wow. I don't even know what to say about that. They said the prosecutor's office is very pleased the jury returned a verdict of guilty on counts five to eight. The cover-up charges were disappointed. They were unable to return a verdict of guilty on the pre-shooting and shooting counts.

So, meaning the gun for unlawful purposes and all that kind of shit. Whoa, man, they said, I guess apparently, Coleman met with lawyers and then asked jurors if they felt they could come to a verdict on all the charges a day after reporting that they were split on two counts. After several minutes of discussions,

jurors said they had one charge left and it wouldn't be fruitful to continue. That was the reckless manslaughter when they were deadlocked on. We're never gonna beat that, yeah. Never going to beat that. 8-4 in favor of a quitting. Juror Tanya Poto said, I'm a little disappointed we didn't finish up.

Williams and his wife left in a white Mercedes SUV without commenting, of course. They just said he's going home to his wife and children and his guns, and his guns really, because that's what's really important to this, those are his children. He means his children, the kids that came out of her are a different thing. So his nephew, Chris Adams said that he admit, this is Christophe's nephew, said he admitted he shot him. He was never held accountable.

Yeah, he said it's breaking up, no words can express how we feel. We all felt he'll get we feel he'll get special treatment and would wind up like OJ. They said we knew this was going to happen. They say yeah, he acted without intent. That is fucking one juror said we tried to figure out the mood in the room when the shooting happened. Like did he have an attitude? Who? Jason Williams. Yeah, did he have an attitude? Who? Jason Williams. Which one?

Yeah. Did he have an attitude? Did Christophe have an attitude? Deserve to get shot? So I don't understand what difference, that would make a difference between aggravated and reckless. Sure. But outside of that, what are you talking about? Who gives a shit? He shot him while he was drunk.

I just want to know if he was bitchy like my teenage. Yeah, I just want to know if he was a little cunty or not. He says he has friends in the house, they're talking about sneakers, and then all of a sudden, boom, it didn't seem to me that he shot him on purpose. So this was an eight-woman, four-man man panel. The jury was 12 weeks was this trial. That's three fucking months by the way. After all that, you couldn't fucking figure it out. They I guess they deliberated for, uh, for about 18 hours over three days. Yeah.

Another juror and Stengel said she thought there was a great probability. The shooting was merely an accident. Great probability, is that right? Great probability, I don't know. It says, questions surrounded Stengel's participation in the jury past Friday because as she told the judge during jury selection, she had plans to fly to Hawaii today for a vacation. Yeah, we got to wrap this up guys, Maui's calling. Yeah, literally it had to

get done that day so she could go. She said she put those plans out of her mind during the deliberations. Didn't think about my impending Hawaiian thing. Yeah. Poi and pineapple for the last fucking three months. Which by the way I'll lose all my money on because I'll have to cancel at the last minute if I do. So I'm not thinking about that. She said I wanted closure I wanted to do the right thing here and I think we did. Sounds like a lot of people had other plans is what this sounds like. The right thing is riding a horse on the beach in Maui I gotta go. I gotta go it's very important to me. So fuck they said they the jurors were only able to unanimously agree on the truthfulness of the testimony

of Paul Gaffney from the Globetrotters and Christopher Morris. They couldn't agree on Kent Coluco, a house guest who pleaded later guilty to tampering with evidence, to testify against him. Couldn't agree whether he was credible or not. No idea. They said on Thursday, they sent a note saying they had decided six of the eight charges but were deadlocked on the remaining two, but the judge told them to continue deliberating and then a day later they said, nope, can't do it.

One juror, Lily Shahidi, said we more or less agreed on what it was decided on. They said the jurors took quite a few votes and spent most of their time just talking and talking until we were blue in the face. Another juror said prosecutors did not have enough physical evidence to convict Williams for manslaughter. What the fuck are you talking about? What do you need? You gotta you mean the evidence he covered up later? Yeah. Like what are we talking about? He's got the weapon, he's got his blood spatter on the fucking clothes. What would he be covering up? That's what I'm saying.

So you basically said he covered up pretty well, so can't really, that's crazy. That's fucking crazy. You know he covered up, you convicted him of it. And then she said, what did he cover up though? Yes, this sounds like people who want to find him innocent because this person said a lot of it was based on eyewitness testimony. People recollect differently.

Which is true, but most of the time people take eyewitness testimony as pretty serious, especially if they know. I don't take eyewitness testimony. If you've never met somebody and you saw them for two seconds, I don't think you can identify them a month from now. I really don't. I think you're going to identify someone of that type and that basic cutout. If you know a guy well- Well, Sam's not very specific about them, but if it's just a fuckin' cutout of a human being and you're gonna rest that guy against another one, it's impossible. That's ridiculous, that's what I mean. But if you know the person very well

and you were three feet away from them in their own fucking bedroom, I think you could probably figure shit out. You could probably recollect things. You've said, Jay, I'm open. Yeah. And he passed me a shotgun shell through my chest. Get rid of this.

The jurors said, I feel good about the outcome. It was as thorough as a case as can be. A not guilty verdict on manslaughter was fairly easy. Wow. They said discussions became hostile and tense during the last few days. They said, you have 12 different people with 12 different opinions and 12 different theories on what happened.

We were just very, very stressed in there. The juror said, but one thing they got ugly. Yeah. One thing they agreed upon was that Benoit Benjamin was not credible. They don't like him at all. They didn't like him because he wouldn't talk to their investigator. He said his testimony was not even considered. It seemed that he had animosity toward Jason.

That doesn't matter! That does not fucking matter! Oh my god! I want to punch these fucking women in this jury, all of them. A lot of people have animosity on them. They're mad. It happens all the fucking time. All the time.

This is a murder trial. This is a, a man's dead. There's gonna be some animosity. Yeah, what we do is we swear them in so then they're doing this under the threat of perjury. Yeah, it doesn't matter if they're mad or not. They have to tell the truth. That's all they have to tell.

The guy said, I was three feet away. This is what I fucking saw. And they're like, well, that's obviously crazy. He seems pissed off because he's a starter and he's not. What the fuck are you talking about? What is happening, man? This is crazy. So experts say the defense was brilliant.

This article says Jason Williams' lawyers conducted a brilliant defense. They said, bogging prosecutors down with testimony of weapons experts that turned the jury's attention away from the actual shooting. This is the same OJ stuff. Let's bring out 14 experts.

Let's grill the lady who literally took a swab of something for six days to talk about her background and how she holds a bag and what finger. How much cotton is on the tip of that swat. Yes, it's true though that if you do that long enough a jury these are human beings they will check the fuck out. So they said while prosecutors did a thorough job defense attorney David M. Schwartz said they were forced into playing the defenses game allowing weapons experts and the allegations

of misfiring shotguns to blur what could have been the main thrust of the state's case, the killing itself. That's literally the reason people have shotguns is because they are like for self-defense at home because they are so reliable. They're so reliable. They go off when you pull that trigger, man. That's it. Wow.

I'm just, this is, this is, you say, well, how do rich people get away with shit? This is how. It's not just getting a good lawyer. It's being able to hire. Yeah. Do you know how much those fucking defense experts cost? Hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's why if you have all of these people and you have enough of them and more than

the other side, you will get acquitted of shit. Three months. This probably cost him five to 10, didn't it? Absolutely. It had to. You will get acquitted of shit three months. This probably cost him five to ten, didn't it? Absolutely constant over the course of two years a three month long actual trial this cost him had to be 15 million even 15 I would say I'd even go up to that One person they this lawyer said I think sometimes prosecutors especially in these cases Have a tendency to over complicate the case And I think that's where the gun expert testimony came in.

Just the fact that he pointed a loaded gun while being drunk at another human being, that alone was recklessness. Yeah. True. Doesn't matter. That's crazy. You can't say it's the gun's fault. It wasn't in the closet and it jumped out, snapped itself shot and closed the guy.

If that thing just goes off from time to time, never point that at a person. Fucking, yeah, he knows his guns too. He's always shooting. He's got a range out back. guy. If that thing just goes off from time to time, never point that at a person. Yeah, he knows his guns too. He's always shooting. He's got a range out back. Right. So one of Williams defense attorneys, Joseph Hayden said that quote, he's a junior by the way, Joseph Hayden Jr., which is not surprising. We knew we were representing an innocent man. The verdict on the shooting counts as a confirmation that the death of Mr. Christoffee, however tragic, was an accident and not a criminal event. Wow.

I hope they fucking sue him for all of his train smoke money. I swear to Christ. Because in civil court, that shit doesn't fly at all. Civil court, it's like 50-50. 51% guilty is guilty. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt. It's just preponderance of the evidence. So different thing. Wow. Jail Jason Williams, the relatives of the victim say. Yeah, they

want that. Andrea Adams, who is Gus's sister, said, some jail time may do Mr. Williams some good. Maybe it would give him something to think about, something like this, so something like this would not happen again. I'm a religious person and it's not like me to be vindictive. I just wish there was some sort of justice for what happened. Which I think is a fair fucking thing here. The family said they planned to lobby aggressively for a second trial. The only thing you could charge them with, you could charge them with murder because they didn't do that first, or you could charge him again with reckless manslaughter,

but you can't charge him with aggravated manslaughter again, because you gotta quit it at that. So that's double jeopardy. A second degree, yeah. So that's it. She said that we're going to fight for them to redo it. I definitely think he could be convicted of reckless manslaughter.

I don't see how the fuck he could or wouldn't. I can't believe he wasn't. That is fucking wild. Another juror, another relative said that jurors were starstruck. He's rich, powerful and good looking. They were taken in by that. I just don't see where justice was served. Yeah. They also said that he's rich. It was the money. Money is everything. Agreed. They also said that Christofi's best friend called the high price defense team the greatest manipulators of the English language. No one was focused on what really happened.

The only good thing is they're all spending his money. They also said that they said, I don't think it was a fair trial. Everyone was so worried about protecting Jason Williams' rights. Who protected Gus Christofi's rights? He was a living, breathing human being until Jason Williams became reckless. So he is to face a new trial for reckless manslaughter. So they are going to do that, which if the family's up your ass that much, and you just basically ate a dick in public, we gave you all the evidence of this case

and you couldn't get a reckless manslaughter conviction out of that, wow. So this is gonna cost Jason a little extra money too here. They said that they will be retried on reckless manslaughter. The state has considered its options, they said, and the state has decided it wishes to proceed with the case.

And they said Williams, he's probably upset about it because he knows that's money. His attorney said any trial will be the same. The witnesses will be the same, the evidence will be the same, and juries will hear the same evidence this jury heard. But they might not be as fucking brain damaged as those people apparently were. I mean, you get 12 people and one has to go to Hawaii on this day, it's fucking silly as shit. So they said they sought to have Coleman set a sentencing

date, that's the judge, before the trial, but the judge refused saying a sentencing could make it nearly impossible to find an impartial jury. So he said, we're gonna sentence on the first thing after the second trial. So we do a whole big sentencing could make it nearly impossible to find an impartial jury. So he said, we're going to sentence on the first thing after the second trial. Okay. So we do a whole big sentencing thing. That's going to be worse. Coleman, the judge, said, I can only think it would make it that much more impossible

to find a jury. As we all know, it was a Herculean task the first go around. Two of the jurors, along with one of the alternates who did not deliberate, were in the audience to hear what the prosecutors had decided. One juror said, we want to see how the other side lives, meaning the people not on juries. None of the jurors would comment on their reaction to it though. After the hearing, Chris Adams, Christophe's nephew said, till now, I didn't think justice was served.

He was very reckless. Aggravated manslaughter, no, but reckless, yes. He was very reckless. So Williamsated manslaughter, no, but reckless, yes, he was very reckless. So Williams, there's a defamation suit. Williams did not def- he- a state trooper said that he defamed him. Really? Yes, in court papers saying that he made anti-Semitic remarks to a Jewish driver during a traffic stop.

The allegations were made against James Kiernan were made as Jason Williams attorneys prepared to defend him. Kiernan, one of the troopers called to Williams Alexander home to testify or to investigate the shooting here, said that he sued Jason Williams for defamation saying Williams spread lies about him. It was to, if you have enough money and a publicist, you can discredit all the cops that investigated your case too. Sure. They said Superior Court Judge Edmund Bernard sitting in Flemington ruled this week that

the comments were protected because they were made in the course of defending Williams. He also said Williams should file a motion to seek attorney fees for defending a frivolous lawsuit. So, holy shit, that didn't work out. July 16, 2004, he wants to change a venue now. But you're the king of New Jersey. Why would you want to go somewhere else? Money and train smoke, man. What's the problem? Yeah, all this train smoke and everything else, man. This is fucking ridiculous. So, he wants that bad. He said that Judy Smith, the spokeswoman for Williams, said that they failed to make any

substantial legal argument why there's a need to transfer the case. Oh, the prosecutors want it transferred. Okay. Here we go. July 24th, 2004, he faces a new charge of killing his dog. Yeah. Yes. That's the say the zeus killing yeah the society for

prevention of cruelty to animals there filed a complaint last week concerning the dogs death and Jason Williams because the statute of limitations on criminal charges has expired the SPCA filed civil charges which could carry a maximum fine of $250. For fuck's sake. Christ. Judy Smith is back. She says, this is a blatant attempt to pile on and create publicity about an issue that

a judge has already ruled has no place in the trial. Right. It has nothing to do with that though. So holy shit. August 13th, 2004, they want a retrial in the same venue, Williams Lawyers, that's what they're saying. I want the same judge, I want the same fucking, the same examination room, I want the jurors to stay in the same motel.

Identical. Identical. So, October 12th, 2004, a local chapter of the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals was ordered to close because it did not prosecute Jason Williams over accusations he shot his dog in anger over a bet. They closed it because nobody, they didn't take any action on it. So they were ordered to close by the higher ups in that group. You guys aren't protecting animals if you're not fucking filing charges against someone

who shot his dog for no reason. October 20, what is this, the 25th 2004, Jason Williams works out with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Huh? What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, his Cavaliers coach Paul Silas said he wants to play. Great, good for him. What are you, the fuck? We worked him out a little bit said he wants to play. Great! Good for him! What are you f- Oh boy. The fuck? We worked him out a little bit and he can still play. He can certainly help somebody. He said he didn't know whether Cleveland would sign Williams or not. Maybe he's wait till after his reckless manslaughter trial to fucking- Jesus Christ. How much winning is he helping you do if he's busy in court?

Yeah, that's another thing. He's going to have a lot of court shit. November 24th, 2004. Fluffpiece time. He's a good guy. He's just a good guy. Jason Williams donates turkeys. Oh.

Yeah, Jason Williams spread some Thanksgiving cheer Tuesday when he donated nearly a hundred turkeys to local families in need. Who boy what a guy. This is a fucking Nino Brown trick. This is a mobster in the 40s. What the fuck are you doing? This is the oldest I'm a scumbag I'll fucking make the neighborhood at least like me shit that you can do.

So Williams and his wife Tanya distributed the turkeys and Thanksgiving Day baskets Tuesday afternoon at TJ's Auto Spa on Somerset Street. A car wash. Yep. William said, God has blessed our family and we enjoy giving back to those in need. I care about the community and get great joy in giving back as long as no limo drivers need a turkey. Shit did he shoot the fucking turkeys himself? When you cook these be careful there's a lot of shotgun pellets in them. Yeah really. You know I put go ahead and put a big you got a strong magnet at all?

Because if you do I'd go over it once or twice. January 12th 2005 facing retrial Williams is only interested in making his return to the basketball court. He signs with the Idaho Stampede of the Continental Basketball Association, scoring two points after signing his contract with the first one. They're huge. Everybody knows about that. He hopes to use it as a springboard for his return to the NBA. He'll be 37 next month.

Jesus Christ! The only 37 year old big man I can remember being any half decent was Dikembe Mutombo because he wasn't a scorer and fucking Akim Olajuwon because he's a freak of nature. Wasn't Vlade pretty good at late age? No Vlade got stiffer and fatter. Yeah, that's all he did. Most guys don't, centers don't get better with age. No, no. Big guys like that. Matter of fact, Blockhead died of cancer at 43. Did he? Oh yeah, he did die. Yes, he is dead. Shinbone's dead, that's right. Jesus. So he said, William says this, interested NBA teams

want assurances that I'm fully recovered and can withstand the rigors of daily competition. I'd also want to make sure you weren't going to shoot anybody else. That'd be my main issue. Also don't use the word rigor. Yeah, no rigor at all. Good fucking point. The very competitive CBA will provide me with this opportunity.

Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. He didn't even start against the Yakama sun Kings and you want to start against the Phoenix suns? No. He played nine minutes or the Kings. He drew a polite cheer from the crowd of 2367 when he made his way onto the floor. I felt great. I really appreciated it. I was a little rusty. I'm glad we got a win. These guys look awesome.

Yeah. This is fucking wild. Unbelievable, man. He appeared to run without problems and was going out of his way to be gracious. At one point, profusely thanking a towel girl. Good God, he was the last to leave the autograph table too. Idaho coach Joe Wolf, who played against Williams in the NBA, said Williams hasn't had a chance

to practice with the team before the game. He hasn't run our sets, but he showed tremendous energy. I expect a lot from him. A lot from him. He said, this is a season ticket holder from the Stampiques. Yeah, it's a season ticket holder. How's this affect your ticket buying? And said everybody needs a second chance? He's still on trial He's not even past his first chance yet

If he was a carpenter or a car salesman someone would hire him. Yes, cuz no one buys tickets to watch a carpenter That's the difference, but he's not he not. He plays basketball. This is what he does. Not anymore. Give it time. Give it time. He might be a carpet salesman. Yeah. Oh, shit.

You never know. Bill Stroud, another fan, said he's probably got a few attorney's fees to pay. Yeah, a lot. I would say. Stampede signed him. The general manager said the best case scenario would be that he performs really well. We win ball games, and the NBA makes him the third call up from the Stampede this season.

This is CBA was before the G League and all that, D League and G League. Now they don't, I don't think the CBA even exists anymore because they have those, the NBA sponsors their own minor leagues there. February 3rd, 2005 here, Jason Williams leaves the stampede. He's done? He's done, he's left to help care for his ailing father. Oh. Yeah, he signed with the team January 12th

and somehow in three weeks his father went from fine to Jason Williams needs to come home. He's been placed on the inactive reserve list which gives Idaho room to sign another player. Williams can be reactivated at any time. So he appeared in seven games, averaging 10 points and 10.6 rebounds in 25.4 minutes per game.

Wow, that's great. Which is very average numbers, and that's in a league where there's no NBA players. In the not tip-top league. Yeah, that says a lot there. The Stampede's next games are against Dakota in the Idaho Center. Okay. February 18th, 2005. Judge orders Williams' trial retrial to be put on hold. Oh, yep. Yep. Put on hold until a state court of appeals rules on several issues, including a request to dismiss the case.

So he said he had no choice but to delay the trial. He said the ruling came more than a week after the state appellate division agreed to review Coleman's rulings, including a denial to dismiss the case based on arguments a retrial would violate Williams' right against double jeopardy. The request for jurors has already gone out. If I do nothing, 300 people will be walking in that door at taxpayer's expense, the judge said. So we have to fucking delay this. He said, we can't be halfway through the trial

and have the appellate division decide against the trial court's decision. Which makes sense, you know, we're not gonna waste a bunch of time and money for nothing here, is what it is. So what a fucking mess. By the way, from this time time March 9th 2005 Williams Jay Williams says that he wants his name back Jason Williams white chocolate quote-unquote Jason Williams he changed his first name from Jason to Jay

in his professional way so he wouldn't, a switch he said he never approved. It said it happened in New York the night before the 2002 draft when he was drafted by Chicago. An advisor suggested the name change to avoid confusion with the guy who is accused of shooting a guy.

So he's like, shit. confusion with the guy who, you know, is accused of shooting a guy. So he's like, shit. So Williams told a reporter, this is Jay slash Jason Williams, told a reporter, said a reporter overheard the conversation and the next day it was reported to the New York media that he changed his name. And he said, everybody was calling me that, so I just let it go. Everybody was just calling me Jay. So I just said, fuck it, I guess I'm Jay.

But now he's in the league a few years. He's like, I want to be called by my name now, Jason. No one ever. I'd like to be called Jason Williams. No one ever, yeah. And he's not coming back from Idaho here. Yeah, he's not. I mean, we're not gonna be on the same court ever.

I'm gonna take his number too. I'm gonna get that as well, man. So now June 28th, 2005, a court rules that the county must pay a newspaper $38,866.79 in legal fees under the open public records act because apparently this is from the successful court battle from the newspaper to make the 911 call public. Remember we talked about that? State appeals court ruled the appellate division reversed a 2003 decision which ordered the state to pay the courier's attorney fees. At the time, they ruled the prosecutor's office was performing a state law enforcement function

when it denied to the tape recording. But in a 14 page decision, a three-judge panel ruled that the Hunterton County prosecutor's office, not the state, is responsible for all these legal fees. So this was just the state fighting with each other to see who was going to pay what. Is it coming out of the county? Is it coming out of the state? Where is it coming? Here's another fluff piece and we'll probably end this week's on this one.

So, because we can't finish it this week unless we do a four hour show. So we'll make we'll spread it out to a fourth part next week. And we have no choice. So September 29 2005 Jason re Jason rebounds nicely is a daily news headline. X net hosting bash for lawyers crime novel. Oh, his lawyers gotta, lawyer's got a book. That is wild. They said it's been just a year since the acquittal,

but apparently that's enough time for Williams and his wife Tanya to throw a book party tonight at Il Postino for his lawyer Linda Kenney, who repped him in the civil suit, which he settled for $2.75 million against the Christoff. That's all the Christoff he's got out of that. 2.75, that's not so bad. It's not so bad.

It's fucked up. Dropping the bucket for him, but still. Probably rather have him. Fuck yeah, and former New York City Chief Medical Examiner Michael Baden, Kenny's husband. She's Michael Baden's wife, this fucking twat. I wonder if she's a liar to the return address on the invitation with so which omits Jason's name is the

Williams who knew estates in Milford, New Jersey the scene of the death the husband and wife teams novel Remains silent conjures a terrific vort a terrifying vortex of murder and deceit, according to Random House's PR material, a mounting body count and a shocking cover-up. They asked, is this irony? Is this like rich irony? This is what Tanya Williams, Jason's wife, said, I find your question bizarre. Do you really? To pretend reality doesn't exist is the thing that drives me the most fucking crazy whether it's like News people saying shit that they know is debunked and know it's whatever just because they know people click whatever the fuck it is intentional being full of shit makes me jump up and down and like

Slam my feet into the ground and want to punch people I can't take it You know what you did She said it would be along this line of saying that I shouldn't see a movie that involves an accident My husband's read the book my friends have read the book. You should read the book No, but I don't want to I'm not reading that I do and I'm still not reading your book I look for shit to read for like this not if if it's a novel. I don't want to read this fucking novel. Bullshit. I want true shit, but I don't want this asshole. So Kenny told the newspaper, the cases in the book are drawn from real cases, but there's nothing to do with the Jason Williams case. It's absolutely irrelevant. Sure it is here.

That's fucking funny. Now I'll give one more thing. October 19th, 2005, the court is weighing a bid to scrap the retrial. Jason, Jason wants it tossed out. He wants it out. Of course he does. Yeah. They said, you gotta let him out here. Um, his lawyer said under the facts, it's inequitable or unequitable to allow the state to have another bite of the apple. It's just ridiculous. Yeah. Which it's not because he was acquitted of that. He was acquitted of one thing, not the other thing. So we'll leave it off it there. Will Jason, will Jason do this here? He is, by the way, does have to sell his house.

We'll give you that next. On November 2nd, 2005, he sold his eight million, he sold it for eight million dollars, his house. He sold Who Knew for eight million. He sold Who Knew for eight million. So He sold Who Knew for $8 million. So something tells me all of this is draining his funds, man. The price per square foot here set a record for a single family home in the county. Really?

Yep. The buyer, John Leonetti of Koltzneck, owner of the Lorsha Petroleum Services in Elizabeth. That's who he is. So there you go. So the who knew ranch is now, nobody knows. He knows ranch. He knows. It's the, that guy knows ranch.

So we know that for a fact and we will move off. A man sleeps in that room. Jesus. That's wild. Yeah, somebody sleeps in the dead. But I mean, how many, all these murder houses get sold eventually? A lot of times they get knocked down though or something, but this guy's not knocking down a 27,000 square foot house That's a lot of footage. He's like who hasn't killed a limo driver. I'll get over it. I'll sleep in another room. Yeah

Rich guys all kill limo drivers. It's fine I'm just gonna use that room for my gun storage anyway, because he's probably got a lot of guns, too I'm sure he does. Well these guys have so many fucking guns. Yeah especially he's moving to a house with a shooting range on it. You'd think he got guns here. So we'll get into the rest of it next week. We'll find out will he ever be convicted? Will he ever serve? He still hasn't been sentenced for the fucking shit he got convicted for.

How much longer will this guy skate? It's been almost five years now. Will he pay with any time at all? So far all he's done is paid two and a half million dollars so we have no idea. We'll get to that next week. We will definitely wrap it up next week. So that'll be Jason Williams part four next week. Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, tell everyone about it. Please get on whatever app you're on. Tell your friends. Tell everybody about it. Give a nice review, just be there

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No, you can't come in, number one. If you are in, maybe I probably will shoot you then because you haven't been invited. But if we invite you, we promise you it won't result in death, accidental or otherwise. So do that. Definitely follow us at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com or go to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows, tickets for the virtual live show for Halloween. That's a good one. Be there for that, just like a regular live show.

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Accidentally or otherwise shoot us with a shotgun and then hide their clothes hit me with them right now They so as you better producers are Peter Mousa chick you Musa Chuck Sean Hackett use Justin Hackett Dustin and Sean Hackett both of you. Oh hack it I got all the hack boys covered Amy Conley Yeah, and oh and then nine eight eight hotline if you if you or anybody, you know are struggling Please call the nine eight eight hotline. That is the that way You don't have to have a 1-800 number for the suicide hotline anymore now. Yeah, nine eight eight Just utilize it if you're struggling.

Yeah, you should. Jordan Bennett and the Redfern family in what is this Mansfield Woodhouse? That's in fucking England or somewhere. Oh, it doesn't sound American. No, it's not. Sounds fancy. Mansfield Woodhouse, that feels like a fucking campus.

Yeah, it does. A college. And also- A tea soaked campusaked campus. Yeah. Zechariah Ward, thank you all so much for what you do. Thank you. Fantastic. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Tiffany Gonzalez, Happy Birthday Tiffany,

Janice Hill, Terry Fares, Jess with no last name, Elizabeth with no last name, Logan Austin, Amber Serpe, Jacqueline E., Alexandra Shea, Brownie 29, Kimberly Kaiser, KJ, the letters K and J, Regina Kuzmanich, Mary McIntosh, Olyessa Luzina, Elizabeth Richmond, Roger with no last name, Sanja Serwin, Maddox Vaughn 820, Angela Hanan, Melissa Allen, that might be the one in San Diego, may not be, it could be two. That's a good one.

If you're in San Diego, big ups to you. Melissa, thank you. Callie Cadell, Peak Seeker, Kaitlin N. Vale, Valley. The pissed off Pol Cock. Wow. Is it Pol Cock, is that something? Is that a country? Maybe he's a Polish man, he's pissed off.

Very. About his cock. Alissa would know last name. Dana? Dana Wilson. Winslow. Lin Savin. Williams, Winslow, Wilson.

It's all the same shit. We don't know. Austin Jones, Michelle Sikinalfi. Sikinalfi. Sikinalfi. I knew a kid named Sikinalfi. Did you? Yeah, it's a New Yorker girl.

There's also Michelle. She's terrific. A few Sikinalfis. He was one of my best friends in elementary school Jimmy would know last name Britt Williams Jimmy expelled like Hendrix Lexi Levine Justin with no last name Caja Brown Ray Moser. Yep Mosler Mosher Junebug Austin Rivera Nick Probably not Nick Anderson the one from the magic but it's definitely uncle June bug Hey, it's okay that you missed those foul shots that time. You're a good player Drill threes man. Yeah, Kimberly Alexander Casey Bowman Jenny Lee some Sam Alamma ding-dong Danny would know last name Luke Allen Robin Church Trinity Jan Peter Tim would know last name Nicole

Gordano Aaron would know last, Betsy with no last name, Darcy, Morgan, Dungberry, Lipschitz. Yep, that's true. Chris, Franklin, Megan, Alan, Dylan, Alec, Alac maybe, Millicent, Millicent, Woodland, Aaron, Schaus, Landon, Fairman, Zoe Wenzel, Tiffany, Oliver, Sierra, Garrett, Garrett, Heidi Northrup, Superman, there's a space so it's not Superman.

Superman, oh that's not the Superman? That's a disappointment, I thought the Superman was hitting us up, damn it. Suzanne Baker, Jamie would know last name, Rhiannon McLeod, McLeed maybe, Emile Lilac, Maddie R, Lisa would know last name, Delaney would know last name, Heather Bean, Awesome Mama 77, Chrissy Menke, Kathleen Bruski, Grace Adams, Whitney Futrell, Jasmine Ut, Chavez, Chavez-Sailor, yep, Mary Close, David Pearson, Nicole would know last name, Tiffany Briggs, Michelle would know last name, Khalees, Amber, and Marissa, Patrick Wilson, Jordan Herringer, Dominic with no last name,

Dolores Turnbow, she's terrific, and Gall, Shane Loss, John Oyer, O-yer, or maybe or, like Michael Oer, it's spelled like that, O-Y-E-R, yeah, yeah. Icepick4 420 Tony Fox James little Barlow 66 mar mar Lemke just Desimo Desimo Desimio

Alright, Deanna tibba tibba low to bowl to tip of tibba do to bowl. I don't know Tybalt Tybo L Cory Joe I don't know Tybo L Tybo L Cory Joe hero onimus. What is this? Hero? nemes Hieronymus Hieronymus Cheyenne would know last name Lovariel

Chase would know last name tabby Schmidt Casey Fitzpatrick mrs. McDonald Dave. I need tickets for Terry town Gonsi Dave Fitzpatrick, Mrs. McDonald, Dave, I need tickets for Terry Town, Ganzi Graziano. Why don't you check the internet, Daddy-O? Benjamin Carlin, Connor O'Brien, My Truth Today, Patricia Baker, Bill Melanson, Bill's back, hey Bill. Hey Billy Boy. That guy's terrific. Rebecca Hendricks, Jodie Wilson, Alexis Danger Chicken,

Victoria with no last name, Brittany Adami, Melissa Strange, Tony with no last name. Brittany Adami. Melissa Strange. Tony with no last name. Mary McIntosh. Christy Sandoval. Deb 1447. Ali Bosworth. Sabrina Randall. Melissa Sargent. Linda Quinn. Caitlin Carroll. Rachel Brown. Gienna? Gienna Hard. You betcha. Gienna Hard. Maria O. Whitney Hand. Samantha Strasner, Jen R, Michaela Bone, Kimberly Clear, Jason Weiss, Cathy Colucci, Nicholas Johnston, David Markham, Timothy Costa, Costa perhaps, Ace with no last name, Todd Hartman, Heather Jensen, Johnson, Benjamin Johnson, Caleb Ebersole. Johnson. It's with an E, Johnson. Johnson with an E, like Peterson with an E.

Yeah, I guess still Anderson. Wilson with an E, that's weird. That was, I've never seen that one. Big Tra- I haven't either, I just made it up. Big Tra- Big Daddy Trap. Oh, Big Daddy. Travis Jarrell from Sugar Butt, but Anthony martucci Suzanne Estre Shepherd Cece like the pizza Bailey Gasper Nikki las near las near Michelle Perry Lucy Rodriguez Daniel David up up a pedal up at up a doll. Oh, oh, no, uh, paid oh what jr. Daniel Last one else motherfucker and all of her patrons. You guys are amazing. Thank you Upadel, what, Patil, what, Junior, Daniel, that last name from the motherfucker. Wow, someone else says that name. And all of our patrons, you guys are amazing.

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