Crime Junkie - CAPTURED: The Golden State Killer

Episode Date: April 26, 2018

On April 25th, 2018, a decades-long search for the man believed to be the Visalia Ransacker, the East Area Rapist, the Original Night Stalker, and the Golden State Killer was identified and apprehended by authorities. We spoke with Criminology Podcast's Mike Morford, who took us through some of the most notable factors of the crimes and arrest, and what this means for cold cases everywhere.For current Fan Club membership options and policies, please visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/. Source for this episode was Mike Morford of Criminology podcast.    

Hi everyone, I'm Britt, the producer of CrimeJunkie, and I think by now, most of you know that on April 25th, 2018, the monster known as the Vesalia Ranzacker, the East Area Rapist, the original Night Stalker, and most recently, the Golden State Killer, was apprehended and revealed to be Joseph James DeAngelo, a former police officer in both Auburn and Exeter of California during some of the time he was active as the Golden State Killer. To say that Ashley and I were ecstatic is an understatement. We knew you Junkies would want our take on the case, but we also knew we couldn't do it justice in the time you'd want it. So we went to Mike Morford, one of the hosts of Criminology. We've been following season two of their show,

covering the Golden State Killer, and knew that he'd be a great resource to get a high level overview of this saga that came to a vindicated head this week. So with that, here's Ashley's interview with Mike. Well, it's nice to like, phone meet you. Yeah, it's, you know, a little different than playing, you know, tag on social media, I guess. Tag on Twitter, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I am a little less prepared than I wanted to be. It's been, we've never covered the East Area Rapist, Lord Golden State Killer, whatever you want to call him. And I know about him, obviously, as much as like the layperson does. So I was planning on doing a little bit of research to kind of help direct the call. But I wanted to get you when I could. So I'm hoping that you can

kind of lead me through it. Everybody keeps, like I said, keeps asking for us to do this case. And I don't like doing cases that I think other people have done really well. I just think it takes away from our show and why do it when someone's done it better. So you guys have done like a really good job. And it's been your whole focus for a while now. Yeah, I can, I can walk you through as much as you need to know and try and give you an idea of the basics of the case. Yeah, if you wouldn't mind, I think that that's kind of what the listeners are hoping for is a little bit of a narrative of a story for those who aren't as familiar. I know for the full deep dive, I'm going to send them to your podcast. But if you could kind of give us a high level overview of kind of hit the story of

the East Area Rapist and when it started, how he kind of transformed. And then obviously, you and I are recording on the day that he was arrested. So this is kind of crazy. Yeah, it's been it's been kind of hectic. But I'll start at the beginning, you know, so back in June of 1976, in the town of Rancho Cordova, which is in Sacramento County in Northern California, there was a rape. And, you know, it was a weird rape and the fact that the guy came in, he had a whole plan and it was laid out well. And he took to a certain script and did things in a certain order. And he succeeded. And then there was a series of rapes in the town and the neighboring town afterwards. And they started to be once a month and then a couple times a month and they just started going on and on and on

faster and faster. And he moved out of Sacramento County and into other parts of Northern California and other counties. And along the way, he had 50 rape victims over three years. And he moved down to Southern California after that. And that's when he started killing people. And they later on linked, you know, by a DNA, the the Northern rapes with the Southern rapes and murders that he did down there. And that's sort of what led to the, you know, the DNA evidence that they actually used to catch him today. So the attacks that he did in Northern California, did they know for sure that they were all connected? I know they were obviously scared of someone. Did they realize how prolific he was in Northern

California? Or was it not until the DNA? Yeah, so in Northern California, where he was known as the Easter rapist, he started attacking the eastern half of Sacramento County. And that's how he became the Easter rapist. And he had a very strict MO. He had a very unique signature. He would order, you know, if there was a male home with the woman, he would force the woman to tie up the male, as he held them at gunpoint. And he would stack dishes on the male's back. And he would take the woman in another room and raper. And if he would tell the male, if I hear these dishes fall, I'm going to kill you and her. So he would do this. And he stuck to the script over and over and over again. Now, sometimes when he would

attack a woman by herself with no man in the house, he would use a knife as opposed to a gun. So he felt that he was able to control them a little bit better without needing to use a gun. So the MO is very unique. So when he did these different rapes, you know, people could tell, you know, it was him at these different attacks and all 50 attacks, he would down the couples in a certain manner. Sometimes he would go to the refrigerator and eat food right out of the refrigerator during the attack. You know, so they started seeing all these different signs and questioning all these victims. And they all reported the same things. So they all, you know, they knew from the MO and the signatures, which rates were his and which ones weren't. And, you

know, he, he basically got the 50 rates and they knew they had, you know, the big problem. And did he, if I remember correctly from your earliest episodes this last season, he didn't start with couples, right? He actually kind of started with younger girls, if I remember, right? Yeah. So the first victim was a lone female that was in her 20s. She was home at her father's house and he had gone on some family business for a month. So she had the house to herself. So he attacked her first. And the second victim were actually sisters. He attacked them when they were home alone. He raped one of them. He didn't rape the other one. And they were, again, they were teenagers. And then he would come back to the same area. He did the first, the second, and he

raped or tried to rape some teenage girls there, but their mom was home and fought them off. But after that, it's the victims changed. Some of them were in their 30s. And then one that was as young as 12. But most of them were in their mid to upper 20s, 30 years old. So that's how he started with, with those. And again, if it came to where there was a man in the house, then those were typical married women or women that rolled up to have a boyfriend, whatever. And those were typically older to where they could. If he was with them, he would feel the need to separate them and put those dishes on the backs of the males just to give them an alarm system, I guess. So that's how that came, you know, the ML came to be. Do people believe that he changed it as more of a

challenge or just part of him evolving or what? You know, they don't, you know, they don't know it's an original signature, a very unique ML, you know, certain profiles have looked at hundreds of cases and have never seen that kind of, you know, unique signature in some attacks where somebody stacked the dishes on a person's back. So it was a way of alarming him should something, you know, the guy try and make a move or something. That was his way of hearing it when he was out in the other room attacking the woman. So that was unique. And they knew that was unique. And that was one of the easy ways they would spot him when he did different attacks. You know, another thing was he would always tell the people the same line, you know, I'm going to just rob

you. I'm going to take some money. I'm going to take some food. I'm going to go escape in my van that I've got outside. If you cooperate, I won't hurt you. And he told that to several people, you know, it was always the same script. And that's another way they were able to determine which attacks were his and which ones weren't. So that was, it was all very unique to signature in the script that he used. And there was, I don't know, I think it was the first one, if I remember correctly from your podcast, that he had actually been calling the girl before and after the attack. Is that right? Yeah. So sometimes in the very first attack, you know, she would see a car driving by her house frequently. And when she looked out, the person would look

away. And then she started getting phone calls. And the person wouldn't say anything. They would just hang up. And then, you know, after her attack, she still got these phone calls. And they got the idea they should put a recording device of some sort on our phone to record somebody calling back. And they got a call, you know, a ton and call that, you know, he was saying, I'm going to kill you. And he was calling her all kinds of older names. And they she determined that was the voice of the guy that had attacked her. So they knew that he was calling them after the attack. Kill you.

been that that happened to several victims oh it did it wasn't just the one now it was it was many victims and in fact some of them received calls five years later one of them received a call she was attacked I think in 1977 and she got a call in 2001 all those years later he was still doing that kind of stuff so it's it's kind of mind boggling the the terror that he was into in doing fear in these women right and so I mean we obviously know now that he's Joseph D'Angelo right at 72 is that correct yeah that's correct so I think everyone's kind of again we're a couple hours into this everyone's piecing it

together but he was a police officer right which is what everyone had kind of speculated before because he somehow was one step ahead of all the things that they were doing was he actually an officer in the areas where this was happening or he just knew how they operate so he was an officer in Auburn California which I think is if I remember correctly is a little bit outside of Sacramento County not directly in there and he was an officer if I'm not mistaken from 1973 to 1979 or maybe it's 76 to 79 but during that time you know a lot of people said how come he knows what we're doing we're trying to catch him and he

know that he sort of has the upper hand all the time and a lot of people did speculate that he might have been a police officer now he wasn't a police officer right in that in those towns that he was striking but he still you know may have had some kind of a advantage from from being a police officer but you know maybe as the investigation unfolds and they release more information we'll know you know more about that but as now there's not a lot known about it he did get fired from his job for shoplifting and you know one of the things he shoplifted was dog repellent which you know I don't even

know what that is I saw that and I was like is there such a thing yeah I'm looking at my dog repellent I've never heard of it but he come to find out it's some kind of repellent to keep dogs away from you which makes a lot of sense because if he's sneaking all these yards and houses there's dogs that might attack him you know and maybe thought that would scare him off and another possibility was that he wanted he knew dogs would be tracking him and he didn't want them to catch his scent so they figured that would interfere with his scent and in a couple of scenes the dogs did react weird to his scent so it

could have been because he was using that stuff to mask his his smell but how smart of him or conniving of him or like even back then to be worried about getting caught purchasing that you know what I mean like as a police officer is he was purchased I think it was a hammer and the dog repellent which I don't think would be too weird but he was obviously like aware enough to want to steal it well and then that's the weird thing because maybe as a thief he was you know as a criminal maybe he just figured why should I pay for it if I didn't steal it if he had bought it nobody would probably pay too sense to

you know he was still been a cop and still been still been doing what he was doing but I think he was fired in 1979 and in 1979 is when the you know the Easter rapist moved down the Southern California and started killing people raping and killing people down in Santa Barbara County and Orange County down there Ventura County so those three years started getting attacked right around the time he stopped being a police officer so it'll be interesting to see maybe if he had some other kind of job at that point that brought him down there that was my next question if we knew what that was where was it in Northern

California or Southern California I remember a lot of people made a big deal about papers that were left outside of the crime scene it was like a school paper it looked like a book report and then like a map of a neighborhood planning yeah that was Contra Costa County that was one of his last attacks up there and one of the scenes they tracked the dogs tracked the scent and across the field and along some train tracks and they lost the scent there and they they figured that it was a spot where he had parked at and then left but right where he was parked they found some papers on the ground that they think he

accidentally dropped and these papers were you know kind of weird things that didn't seem to go together one of them look like a sketch of a community like he was planning on building a community or something like that the other sketch was like or the other paper was a sixth grade essay of how bad he hated this six year six grade year of school and then the third paper was a an essay on general Custer so these three things sort of didn't go together but they were all found together and they were all in the same kind of paper so they kept them as evidence and the interesting thing is today somebody just produced some of

his handwriting from a document that he signed and it does again I'm not trained but it to me it matches I'm pretty sure that it's it's clear that he did write that stuff and drop it there so it wasn't a red herring very well could have been his stuff and it but we have no idea what sense to make of it still yeah it might have been just where he went to climb in the car and somehow he was in a hurry to leave and knocked it out and didn't see it and that and that's how they got it you know had he not dropped that there they wouldn't have had that to go on but you know it's it's one of the only times he

really slipped up and left something at a scene that that was a pretty big clue so when he moved down to Southern California I remember reading that one of his victims they felt like maybe he knew her because it was the way in which she was murdered was just so much more brutal than the others is that is that true or did I miss here well so when he moved down there he had never killed well technically he had been considered the murder of a couple an Air Force couple that was walking their dog and they suspect that he they walked up on him as he was prowling in a yard and he killed them both so he was suspected of

that but he had never officially murdered anybody now when he went down to Southern California he started attacking raping and murdering the couples and he would shoot them or he started even worse he started bludgeoning them and with the bludgeoning you know he's beating them with force and and it's more of a personal style attack so a lot of times they started thinking that he knows these people and whoever that murdered them is somebody that knew them because they were bludgeoned in a frenzy and you know that's typically I guess during investigations that's typically true but it remains to be seen if he did

know them now maybe he did and that will come out too that he knew some of the victims but the last victim in 1986 she was she was beat savagely and it's interesting because there was a five-year gap where he wasn't known to attack anybody during that five years but when he attacked again in 1986 he really was rough on the girl that he murdered and he beat her probably worse than many of the other people that he bludgeoned and the interesting thing is you know 1981 to 1986 there's a five-year gap where he didn't commit any murders well I did some research and I found out that two of his children he's got three kids two of them

were born one was born in 1981 and one was born in 1986 so whether they're births or his wife being pregnant or something along those lines set them off I don't know but it'll be interesting to see what comes out of you know materials as they release them to see what drove this guy to do what he did. Yeah have you so you obviously have done some digging is there anything else that you have learned about this guy and I know everyone's still kind of piecing it together bit by bit. Yeah I know I don't know a lot more than most people I got a little advanced notice last night before they announced anything and it was

weird because I I didn't know at the time but I was the first person on Twitter tweeting you know tweeting about the stuff wow and and then it just sort of went crazy and it was like you know just retweet retweet and I'm like wow this is crazy but then I looked and I saw nobody else is tweeting about this so I realized that I was the only one that knew about it at that point you know but with the information I had which is very limited I knew the guy's age and some general information about him I didn't know his name at the time I found that a little bit later but things got moving pretty fast overnight and then this

morning I got a call from somebody and sort of solidified everything that I already had so by this morning you know it was pretty clear what was going on and then at the press conference today we were able to find out some more information about him yeah and this isn't I mean something that you just like picked up overnight you said you actually were on a panel last year at crime con is that right about this case yeah so I'm friends with some of the victims and and the surviving victims and family members of those that didn't survive and you know I got to be friendly with them and you know I started

wanting to see if I could help in any way and and one of the ways I you know volunteered to help was going to crime com and helping them present the case about the Golden State Killer which is in 2016 2017 now actually and at the time the case it's weird case really didn't have that much national appeal not that many people knew about it and just a year later this crime con it's like huge news just about everybody knows about it so in that short one-year period the case really you know the case really exploded so that's sort of how I got into it and I do a lot of research and you know I had some connections the law

enforcement that were investigating it so you know I was able to get my hands on some stuff to help you know tell the the story a little bit better on our podcast so it was a big aid in doing that yeah yeah you guys have had like incredible episodes and incredible interviews like nobody else has done which I think is part of I think it's like you know everyone is pointing to Michelle McNamara's book and but I think it was a collective thing of from everybody from everyone still talking about it her book or the podcast like everyone just caring enough to try and still get tips I think a lot of times

like I know I work with a ton of cold case detectives and the number one thing is if people just think no one cares anymore they don't come forward and I think you're right about that and it's it's it was weird to see the amount of people from 40 years ago that retired you know they retired retired 20 30 years ago and they're still going out to the shows and being interviewed and trying to help and then the family members of victims that were murdered keep telling their story over and over again which I always you know I thought was brave to be able to go through those emotions again over and over again and to help

tell the story that's what they've they've done so everybody doing this effort and then spreading it on social media has really helped move this case towards a household name versus what it was and did in in all of the the talks that you've given and the people that you've talked to did Joseph D'Angelo's name ever come up or is this just one of those like out of nowhere guys this is an out of nowhere guy from everybody I've talked to he's he's a real surprise you know I talked to a couple people that did a lot of data mining on different people of interest throughout the counties where he struck and collected

thousands and thousands of names of people that might be interested you know possible suspects and this is the name that nobody had nobody really had on their radar and it also turns out the interesting thing is they're gonna they're gonna link him to something called the Visalia Ram second case that took place before the Easterer rapist crimes that was in 1973 to 1975 in Visalia California and that's a case where the the offender was burglarizing a lot of homes but not raping or attacking anybody but he eventually did try to kidnap a girl and her father tried to intervene and he was shot and

killed oh yeah so then in the later the police officer cornered the guy and he tried to kill the police officer by shooting at him you know so there are you know kidnapping charges or murder and attempted murder there charges there if they can positively link to him he'll probably be facing those charges on top of all the other murder charges that he has now so he started way before anyone even thought that he did and there's like a very clear path of escalation that's it is and the interesting thing is when he left Visalia the last time he attacked was 1975 he had again only one attempted abduction no known rape and

then he showed up June of 76 which is you know about six months later and he's suddenly raping and he's doing it proficiently so it's almost as if in the six-month you know time frame he suddenly changed MO drastically so maybe there are some victims in between where he phased over to that but one way or another they think that he did commit the first years crimes of my say so they're gonna try and link them to him as well was the last one in Visalia where he tried to abduct the girl and ended up murdering her father or was that somewhere in the middle that was Visalia he raped her he excuse me he abducted

her tried to get her out of the house and her and the father caught them outside the house and he was shot and was that the last case though that happened there in Visalia no they had stakeouts and one of the areas that they staked out a police officer was sort of sitting in a garage waiting for the sky and sure enough he shows up there and the officer you know shined as late and said freeze and the guy said please don't shoot me and the officer sort of let down his guard a little bit and the guy pulled out a gun and shot at the officer and hit him at the hit the flashlight but he was holding and the

guy was able to get away so he definitely wasn't afraid to kill when he needed to he definitely tried to preserve himself without getting caught and if he was cornered and he needed to to make an escape he wouldn't hesitate to shoot somebody and if I remember correctly too so you said there's a six month period before he shows up again and is really raping these women and something might have happened in between but even during the east area rapist when that was going on there were like weird blocks where he would disappear for a little bit right like for like three months at a time there were stretches

where you know a two month period of three month period a one month period where he wouldn't attack and then there were stretches where he might attack three times in two weeks and at one point it seemed like they were coming faster and faster on top of each other then they suddenly stopped for three months so that's another thing it'll be interesting to see what was going on in his life that caused him to take those breaks you know if they can tie some kind of maybe he was away training for something maybe he you know had an injury is there anything they can tie to the breaks in the crimes to sort of

help tell the story about what he was doing and how he was doing it yeah and do they even know where they're gonna try him at this point I mean he was all over the place there's so many different like ten different counties yeah it's it's sad because all the rates can't be tried there there are the statute of limitations ran out on them and back then it was a very short statute of limitations I think it was like five years so after five years they couldn't even arrest him for any of the rates which is crazy but all the murders attempted murders things like that those charges are still enforceable so in

each of the counties where he's got these murders he's gonna probably face murder charges and all of them so they started out with Ventura they moved back up to the the young military couple that was killed in Sacramento they're gonna charge him with those and then they're gonna move down I think to Santa Barbara and Orange County and charge him with murders down there as well told murders all together if they think he committed I think he committed more but many of those murders are DNA linked so they know that he committed just about all the ones are gonna charge him with but I suspect there's more out there

that they haven't discovered yet I was just gonna ask you and I never saw a ton of this but do people think he ever wised up and started not like trying to avoid leaving his DNA I mean I wonder how long he was active for because it doesn't seem realistic that he would have stopped back in the 80s he was still very young well and that's that's the thing so being in law enforcement he might have got a heads up that they were coming up with stuff called DNA because back then they didn't really know anything about DNA being in law enforcement he may have had some kind of insight to know hey they're coming out

of this DNA stuff I gotta be careful because he didn't leave any prints he was very careful about not leaving prints not leaving evidence except for the one time he may have dropped his papers but he didn't know about DNA so he was leaving semen all over Hena the state and they were collecting it and getting his DNA sample left and right and that's what they wanted linking him with and I think that's what ultimately led to his arrest I think they they were able to get some success running that DNA through some databases and then linking it to the right family and then they track through the family and track

to him and I think that's what's gonna come out on how they caught him do you know how long ago because I know they said they got it through something that he discarded his DNA do you know how long ago that was though when they had been like tracking him and collected that and how long it took to process my understanding it was this week oh wow they they they suspected it was him they waited patiently and found some DNA on something that he discarded and they tested it immediately and got a direct hit a hundred percent match so as at that point they knew they had their guy and then they went in and and arrested

them and were able to take him in custody and he was living with his daughter and his granddaughter at the time is that right yeah I don't know I don't know his exact family dynamics I've heard some mixed things about that I know that the kids that he had were older you know I know he had at the time I think he had a 30 year old daughter a 35 year old daughter if I remember correctly so I think his other kids were older and then he I remember reading at least in one place and I don't know if this was like the accepted profile but I remember hearing before that they didn't think he would be like a married man but

from what they're saying is his marriage records show that he was married way back in like the early 70s so he was married like the whole time this was going on is that right yeah from my understanding he did have a long-term relationship which is a little bit opposite of what I thought I thought he would be somebody that either never got married or he got married several times because he had marital issues but apparently he was married you know a lengthy time but one interesting thing I found when I went searching to the newspapers when I first got his name I found a wedding announcement back in

1970 for him and he was engaged to marry a girl named Bonnie well something must have happened they broke up and they didn't get married but at one of the crime scenes he was whimpering and crying in the corner and the person who listened to him and he said Bonnie doesn't like it when I do this stuff you know that was one of the things that you know sure that he had the Bonnie and then I found that he had been engaged to a Bonnie so that's you know something that that stuck and hit me immediately I had never even heard that that's crazy yeah it's one of those weird things where you know if you if you don't know

all the facts of this case and you haven't looked at it you it's easy to miss a lot of little clues and things but having read through just about every report you know ten times you know there's certain things that definitely stick out that you they just tend to remember and that was one of them do you know Bonnie did she did she pass away did they do we believe that they just called off their engagement or do we have no idea what happened to her yeah I don't know what happened I know she did get married to somebody else a couple years later it wasn't to him it was to somebody else and I don't know if she's

alive or what happened to her after that I just know she didn't marry him and then did he go on to marry his current wife I was it around 73 yeah I think it was in the early I want to say it was 73 and he married her from that mistaken in Tulare County and Tulare County is important because that's where Visalia is as a matter of fact in the record of the marriage it listed his wife as living in Sacramento County and him is living in Tulare County and that was 1973 when the Visalia ransacker attacks are happening so that's a link that's gonna put him in that county which is probably gonna further make the case

that he was a Visalia ransacker and so weird that it started like right as he got married yeah it seemed like that's when it did start now because he was prowling and he was out all hours of the night calling victims at night prowling attacking it seemed like I don't know how you want to work you know I don't know what shift he worked but if you're out till you know from dark until 6 7 a.m. how do you function and go to work after that but he was constantly doing that and it's gonna be interesting to see how he accomplished that because it just it doesn't seem possible that he could be

up the amount of hours that he was and still functioned and have a full time yeah obviously was able able to do it well because again nobody was noticing he was able to have you know as healthy of a marriage as you can have with a serial killer because if you know they had kids nobody was thinking it was this guy it's just super strange that he could be so normal and no one would suspect him and it kind of explains why he could hide for so long and that's maybe part of it you know he wasn't the monster the creepy guy next door he was a family guy with a boat in his front yard the normal house and and grandkids

or whatever you know so that was a bit of a thought obviously but from outward appearances it looked normal so I think he fooled a lot of people so before this guy was caught how many more episodes did you guys have planned of your podcast well but we we had 12 plan we just recorded our 10th one which you know obviously there's a little bit of a monkey wrench a curveball to us as to what we're gonna do but we think we're just gonna we're gonna finish it out with our normal 12 episodes but we're gonna do a bonus episode we're probably gonna release in the next 24 hours or so updating the case saying what's

happened you know it's a big development and then maybe in the last episode excuse me we'll spend some time going over what we know and what we found out about the guy and and make that part of the last the last yeah and I'm sure stuff is gonna continue to just keep pouring out do you guys think you will you know once you're done I know you guys did the zodiac season one and you kind of wrap that up and I know you're now you guys are doing a book is that right on the zodiac yeah so we had our season one transcribed over into a book form so that's gonna be coming out and in your future probably over the summer

we're probably gonna do the same thing with this case as well it's a popular case and we have a lot of good material so we'll probably wind up doing the same thing are you going to go the way of cereal and just like wrap it up and and be done with it and not go back when there's trials and stuff are you gonna go more the up and vanished route and kind of follow the trials as it goes on and kind of keep releasing your information it would be hard not to go back to it I think for me personally just because again I'm knowing the victims and being friends with their victims and some of the family of the

victims it's a little bit more personal so I don't think I would walk away from it I think I would still do updates on it and and want to share things as they develop so I don't know that I'd ever do a whole season on it again but you know there might be some episodes left that we can do to just update people with what's going on with the case awesome and do you guys have a season 3 already identified we don't and you know at the end of each season we sort of don't plan way in advance over we're sort of you know bombed out from from a long season as it is and we like to take a week off and just refresh and start

thinking about the next project but with our podcast we do a highly detailed deep dive into a case using a lot of you know police reports and things like that you know people that were there people we can interview so we have to find the right case it sort of fits that that model yeah and you guys do you have anyone in California or you guys are out on the East Coast yeah we're on the East Coast I mean I have a lot of friends and connections and and things out on on the West Coast in California but we're gonna be a little bit more difficult to get like boots on the ground as opposed to having something in your backyard you

guys can keep picking California cases to you got to in a row yeah and that's that's the thing we want to sort of keep it fresh and not necessarily go back to California again it just so happened that the first two were from California but I suspect whatever case we do next is it's not gonna be in California is there anything that like I missed that you you want to throw out there or anything I didn't cover I think we I think we cover the case pretty pretty thoroughly I've found an abbreviated version but you know one important thing just to mention I think at the end of the day when this guy goes to trial and all

the details come out I think he's probably gonna be America's all-time worst serial offender you know predator-wise you know he's gonna wind up being responsible for hundreds of home burglars and break-ins at least 50 rates probably more out there that never came forward or run identified and he's gonna have at least you know 13 murders so and there's probably more beyond that that hasn't been discovered yet but he's gonna wind up being you know if not the nation's worst serial predator he's gonna wind up being California's worst serial predator I can I can absolutely see that because I I

think you're right I think there's just so much we don't know yet yeah it's it's just it's a big iceberg it'll be it'll be interesting too to see kind of where he came from as we learn more about him his background and I do kind of feel for his family you know I mean God has as you know a daughter about the same age as his like to have your world just turned upside down like that that's got to be kind of shocking you wake up one day and then the police are taking your data away and he's the worst serial killer you know in California history it's it's yeah I sort of feel bad for them too you know as awful as what he

did you know was I feel bad for the victims so you know I also feel sorry for his his family so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out and see if they support him or if they're you know if it repulses them and they're they're not even on the side well Mike I appreciate it thank you so much I think this is like I said gonna be way better than if I just tried to retell a story that hasn't been my whole life for the last year well I appreciate you having me on it was a good talking with you and I enjoy the podcast too so and then if there's anything we can do for you again in the future like I love work with you

guys you guys are super cool I appreciate it and I like I said I like I like the cases you cover you guys pick some good ones you know cases one of my favorite yeah not a problem well I appreciate it thank you again Mike it was great talking to you yeah they're talking to you take care you too alright bye I really enjoyed this interview so much and we really hope you did too huge thanks to Mike for giving us some time to talk about this case that he's been so passionate about for so long stories like this one really make us focus on why we do this show it is so important to continue to cover cases

like Golden State killer like Nikki McGowan like Aikens and April Tinsley and so many other horrific unsolved cases that maybe not that many people know about the horrible people behind these crimes are still out there someone knows something and eventually someone will be willing to talk if they know people still care thank you guys so much for listening and if you want to learn more about the Golden State killer definitely check out Criminology season 2 I for one cannot wait to hear the rest of the season and if you enjoy this episode head on over to Apple Podcast leave us a five-star rating and

even better if it's a written review it really helps new listeners find our show and we also really really love reading all of your sweet notes and as always check out our website crimejunkiepodcast.com and subscribe to our newsletter we'll be releasing some exclusive news they are here in the next week or so so that's pretty exciting and follow us on Twitter at crimejunkiepod and on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast as you'll be back next week to give you your next true crime fix crime junkie is written and hosted by me all of our sound production and editing comes from

Britt Prey what and all of our music including our theme comes from Justin Daniel crime junkie is an audio Chuck production so what do you think Chuck do you approve