Crime Junkie - CONSPIRACY: Fort Hood

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

When a 20-year-old soldier goes missing from one of the largest military bases in the country, her tight-knit family is determined to find her and bring her home. But the investigation into her disappearance uncovers more than anyone bargained for - secrets, lies, and a system that failed to protect the people within it. And it has left everyone asking: what is going on at Fort Hood, Texas?For current Fan Club membership options and policies, please visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/. Sources for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/conspiracy-fort-hood/ 

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host Ashley Flowers. And I'm Brett. And the story I want to tell you today is one that we've actually been following for a while now. One, the whole country has been following. It's a story about one woman's tragedy tangled up with so many tragedies on so many levels. This week on Wednesday is Veterans Day here in the U.S. And every year we cover stories of people in our military who have devoted their lives to defend and protect us,

but who are not being defended or protected by the very government they serve. And in 2020, the story of a 20-year-old soldier took over the media after she goes missing from one of the largest military bases in the country. Her tight-knit family was determined to find her and bring her home. But the investigation into her disappearance uncovers more than anyone bargained for. Secrets, lies, and a system that failed to protect the most vulnerable people within it, leaving everyone asking, what is going on at Fort Hood? This is the story of Specialist Vanessa Guillen.

It's April 22nd, 2020, and Myra Guillen is trying to reach her sister, Vanessa. She's calling and calling, but the calls just keep rolling over to voicemail. And she's texting and texting, but her texts aren't going through at all. Like, they're not even showing as delivered. And it's super concerning because even when she's working, Vanessa never turns off her phone. Myra starts calling around, which is how she learns that Vanessa missed a standing phone call with her fiancé Juan as well. And they talked every day at noon. But when he called on this day, she never answered.

Myra knows right away that something is terribly wrong. Like, she's worried maybe Vanessa's been in some kind of accident or something, and every minute that passes, it's just compounding her worry. The Guillens get a call that evening from the leadership at Fort Hood, Texas, the military base where, at the time, Vanessa is a private first class. And they're asking if they had seen or heard from Vanessa. Apparently, she was expected to check in at 4pm, but didn't. And no one has seen her on the base since, like, midday.

Are any of her colleagues at the base concerned at this point? Not nearly as concerned as her family. And that is super frustrating for Myra, as you can imagine. Because at this point, Vanessa's family isn't just worried. I mean, they're frantic and growing more frantic by the minute. Finally, around midnight that night, Myra has had enough of the waiting. And she decides she's just going to go look for Vanessa herself. And she starts the three hour drive from Houston to Fort Hood.

According to an episode of ABC's 2020 called I Am Vanessa, Myra meets with the base commander first thing the next morning and finds out that all of Vanessa's things, her keys, her wallet, her credit cards, and IDs were found in the armory room where she'd been working that day. According to the US Army's website, they check her barracks and her unit. And at the same time, people are doing all the things you'd expect to see with a missing person's case, like asking around to co-workers

and friends, calling local hospitals like the works. But no one has seen or heard from Vanessa. So at this point, the military reports her missing to local law enforcement and engages their criminal investigation division, or the CID. But it's not until the next day that the military police issue a BOLO, or be on the lookout, to other police in the area. And another day after that, before they issue their first media alert, asking for the public's help to locate Vanessa.

At the same time, Myra and the rest of her tight-knit family are bringing their own team together to look for Vanessa, putting up missing person posters, posting to social media, even putting up billboards on the roads leading into Fort Hood. So the CID goes about its investigation, retracing Vanessa's steps on the day that she went missing. And they're able to pinpoint what seems to be her last movements, or at least the last ones anyone saw on the base.

It turns out Vanessa wasn't scheduled to work that day. According to a story by Lee Egan for Crime Online, she was called into work, or as the reporter put it, inexplicably, on her day off. Sometime in the late morning, or just after noon, Vanessa got a request to confirm serial numbers of weapons and equipment. She left her station and went next door to another arms room where another soldier was working.

And then, after that, she seemingly just disappeared. Investigators talk to the man stationed in that second room, the one that Vanessa walked to. His name is specialist Aaron Robinson. And according to an article by Johnny Diaz, Maria Kramer, and Christina Morales in the New York Times, he tells them there is nothing out of the ordinary to report. He read her the serial numbers, gave her the paperwork,

and then she left. Okay, did he say where she was heading? Not as far as I can tell, but presumably to do whatever work she'd just taken on, or to confirm the serial numbers on some equipment. So, he was the last person to see her? No, so it actually doesn't seem like it, because investigators also find three eyewitnesses

who had been outside smoking, who say that they saw her walk across the parking lot that afternoon, and just based on the timing, it seems they saw her after she left the second arms room. But whatever happened after that, they have no idea. So, at this point, they're thinking either she left the base on her own, and disappeared on purpose, or she was kidnapped. Now, Abandoning Post isn't totally unheard of.

It has happened before, but it just seemed really unlikely, since by this time, they've done an extensive search of the barracks and in the areas where Vanessa worked, and came up with nothing more than her keys and wallet, like things they know she would not leave behind if she truly left of her own free will. Right, right. There are things that you kind of need to have with you, especially if you're just going to leave.

Right, but both the disappeared on purpose theory and the kidnapping theory turn out to be hard to pursue, because there are no other eyewitness sightings anywhere, and no surveillance cameras covering the parking lot where Vanessa was last seen. They even bring in search dogs to try and catch her scent, but there's just nothing. However, they're in luck, because a physical trail isn't the only one investigators can follow.

There's a digital trail, too, and it's the digital trail that gives investigators their first break in the case. When investigators get Vanessa's phone records, what they find is that the last person she texted on the day she disappeared just happened to be the last person they know talked to Vanessa. Erin Robinson. I mean, that can't be a coincidence. Do you know if they were friends or were they just like work people?

Investigators interviewed several people that worked with the two of them to find out, but they really don't find any evidence to suggest that there was any kind of relationship between Vanessa and Erin, other than, like, a strictly professional one. When they question Erin a second time, I mean, they ask him more about the rest of his day and night after that interaction with Vanessa.

And Erin tells investigators that the day she disappeared, he worked his scheduled shift, then left the base to spend the night with his girlfriend. According to reporting from Christina Carriga and Louis Martinez for ABC News, Erin said he only left home one night and it was to go back to the base to enroll in some online training. And when they talk to his girlfriend, she backs up his story. So while they're talking to all these people on the base,

is there any sort of physical search for Vanessa happening anywhere? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, we're talking military police, local law enforcement, even volunteers have all been scouring the area, especially in the woods and brush. But even these searches aren't turning up anything, like not even a trace of her. No leads are coming from the public either,

but investigators are sure someone must know something. So they post a $15,000 reward, but even that doesn't generate any credible leads. It's not until almost a month after Vanessa disappeared when, as The New York Times reported, two witnesses come forward to investigators at the Army Base in Fort Hood, Texas, and they say they saw Aaron, the last person to see Vanessa

before she disappeared, carting a large, heavy plastic box on wheels. It's called a tough box. And they say he's carting it out of the arms room where he worked on the same day Vanessa went missing. The eyewitnesses say they saw specialist Robinson load that box into his car and drive away. And they also said the box looked to be, quote,

really heavy in weight, end quote. After learning this, investigators reach out once again to specialist Robinson. This is now their third time questioning him. And this time, he agrees to have his phone searched. But just so you know, like this is the only thing remotely close to a lead that investigators have in this case. And up to this point, they haven't really had

any communication with Vanessa's family, who by this time are really starting to rally their own troops. What do you mean? Well, I mentioned the missing person posters and the billboards and whatnot, but they are also protesting outside the base every Friday. And they have been since the early days of the investigation. Like, they are super frustrated that they aren't getting

any information about Vanessa's search or the investigation from the CID. And they're demanding action and answers. And they have good reason to be angry because there is a lot more going on under the surface of Vanessa's disappearance than meets the eye. And in early June, Vanessa's family goes public

with some information that catapults this case into the national spotlight. According to the I Am Vanessa episode of 2020, before her disappearance, Vanessa had been experiencing sexual harassment on the base at Fort Hood. And not just from anyone. It was from someone who outranked her. And her family said Vanessa hadn't said anything

because she was afraid of the consequences of what might happen if she reported it up the chain of command. Did she tell her family any details or who was responsible? Vanessa had confided some of the details to her mother. In one instance, a superior officer followed her into the shower and in another, a completely different person verbally assaulted her with vulgar language. Now, when people hear about Vanessa's experience,

that's when we started to see the hashtag I Am Vanessa Guillen on social media. And Vanessa's story is suddenly everywhere. And women are using the hashtag to share their own stories of sexual harassment and sexual assault while serving in the military. Did the military police or the CID look into this? They did, but not right away.

Their investigation wouldn't launch until two weeks later. And in the meantime, army officials increased the reward for credible information about Vanessa's disappearance to $25,000. The next day, it doubles to $50,000 when an organization called the League of United Latin American Citizens matches the army's contribution. While investigators are waiting for information to surface, the physical search for Vanessa in and around Fort Hood continues.

At this point, according to an article by Christopher Brito for CBS News, the CID has Texas EquiSearch on ground supporting the effort. They've engaged the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and they're working with local law enforcement from the FBI, Belton PD, and the Texas Department of Public Safety. But the search area is massive. And without any solid leads on where exactly to focus their efforts, it's a bit of kind of just a guessing game.

But then a tip comes in. A tip that leads them to this empty field about four miles outside Fort Hood, where investigators discover something they hoped they'd never find. Human remains. Lightly buried in the dirt with pieces of shredded clothing scattered around, investigators find human remains. But, as they would soon find out, they were not Vanessa's remains. In fact, the body that they found in the field belongs to a man.

A man that the Army had thought had been AWOL from Fort Hood for almost a year. The badly decomposed body in the field outside the Fort Hood base belongs to 23-year-old Gregory Waddell Morales, a soldier who went missing from Fort Hood back in August 2019. According to reporting by Kyle Remfer in the Army Times, when the military called his mother Kim back in August, they had said her son had gone AWOL. They couldn't find any proof that anything fishy was going on with him

or that anything bad had happened to him, just that he was a grown man who they say made a decision to leave. Which, I mean, like you said, people do go AWOL, and the Army doesn't search for soldiers who are AWOL. I remember when I was looking into this case back when we were talking about it in our headline segment, I read that there are like a thousand people listed as active deserters at any given time. And I think there was even another soldier that went missing

right around the same time as Gregory, but it was later found that he was just gallivanting elsewhere like a few days later. Well, yeah, I get that. And again, AWOL was definitely one possibility. But from the very beginning, Kim was like, oh, heck no. Like Gregory was just a couple of weeks away from being discharged. And he just bought a new car. Like so new that he hadn't even made his first payment on it. And he had plans when he left the military to go work on wind turbines in Texas.

Like the timing of it just doesn't add up. And on the night that he went missing, Gregory had gone to a club and hung out with some friends. And the last time anyone saw him, he was driving in Colleen, the town just outside the Fort Hood base. According to Kyle Remfers reporting, his trail went pretty cold, almost like immediately after he goes missing. And a month later, Kim called the lead investigator from the CID

to ask about, you know, maybe posting a reward for information to see if maybe that would stir up some interest. And they said they would work on it, but then just nothing ever happened. It wasn't until seven months later after Fort Hood posted a reward for Vanessa that they finally put one up for Gregory. The biggest issue in Gregory's case is that the military refused to admit Gregory's disappearance was anything other than a desertion right from the very beginning, which like you said, Britt, like no one was really looking for him. And nobody was keeping the family up to date either,

even when things landed in their laps. Like for instance, the Waddell family found Gregory's car listed for sale online nine months after he vanished. This was May of 2020. And when Kim called CID investigators to let them know, they were like, oh yeah, we know about that back in January. They just like didn't bother to even update the family, which is wild. Yes.

And because Gregory was classified as a deserter, he was also stripped of his military rank, which means he and his family lost all the benefits that go along with being enlisted or honorably discharged. According to an Associated Press article that appeared on NBC News' website, it's the equivalent of being basically fired for cause. But again, that's not what happened with Gregory, not by a long shot. And Britt, as you know, back in May,

Gregory's sister-in-law, Destiny, actually reached out to us. And part of her note still sticks with me today. And Britt, I'm going to have you read it for our listeners. Okay, Destiny wrote, It hurts me that my husband, two daughters and I, are sitting at the dinner table eating and my husband gets quiet. I ask what's wrong. And he said, I'm sad because our girls will never know their uncle.

Hearing him say that hurts. The fact that it's true hurts. They never got to meet him because he was always gone serving our country. Gregory deserved better. His family deserves answers. And the question that haunts me about this case, if it wasn't for Vanessa's disappearance, would Gregory have ever been found at all?

That's such a great question. And it haunts me too. But going back to Gregory's case, you didn't mention a cause of death. Do we have any information about that? Well, according to a story by Crystal Bonvillian from Cox Media Group that appeared on Fox 23, his exact cause of death is unknown.

But his mother has said publicly that investigators believe he'd been shot in the face. Have they ruled any sort of manner of death, like homicide or suicide or something? Well, in the Army Times article I mentioned, Kyle Remfer quotes the Kaleen PD, who is the leading investigation agency since Gregory's body was found outside Fort Hood.

And they were quoted saying that they believe foul play is involved. But that's the last information I could find. It just says that the investigation is still ongoing and they're waiting for final autopsy results. Now, whether or not that autopsy was able to answer any specific questions about Gregory's death, the Army at least had enough information to determine that Gregory had died before September 21st,

which is before he was officially deemed a deserter. So because of this, his rank has been reinstated and Gregory will get the full military funeral and honors he deserves. But as far as I can tell, authorities haven't released any information about what they think might have happened to Gregory. His mother has said he was having some personal issues around the time of his disappearance

and that he and his wife were actually divorcing. But he was also, again, making plans for his future, buying that car, looking at a second career. All we really know is that his remains were found in a field and his death is being investigated as a homicide. Hopefully soon we'll know more about what happened to Gregory and whoever is responsible for his death will be brought to justice. Now, right around the same time investigators

were finding Gregory's remains, the CID was also getting information from the search of Aaron Robinson's phone. Investigators were interested in Aaron from the start. I mean, the last text Vanessa sent was to him and he was the last person on the base to speak to her on the day she disappeared. Now remember, Aaron said that, you know, he worked his shift,

he left the base, went home for the night with his girlfriend and his girlfriend, Cecily, actually backs up the story. But when investigators look at Aaron's phone records for the night after Vanessa went missing, they see that at 1.59 in the morning, when he said that he was home with Cecily, his phone was pinging off a tower in Belton, Texas, which is about 20 miles from Fort Hood.

So when they see this, investigators don't go right back to Aaron. They actually go to Cecily to see what she has to say about Belton. And she tells them, oh, well, you know, actually, she and Aaron had taken a long drive that night to look at the stars. And the ping that they have put Aaron's phone at a point along the Leon River. And with absolutely nothing to lose at this point,

they move the entire search up there. Two days later, in that same area by the Leon River, the search team finds what looks like a burned out piece of plastic storage tote. Investigators from the CID knew right away exactly what they were looking at. It was the lid from a tough box, exactly the kind of tough box witnesses reported Aaron

rolling out of the armory and loading into his car on the day Vanessa went missing. According to Lee Egan's piece for Crime Online, investigators are pretty sure at this point their search for Vanessa is close to over. But they search like three feet down into that burn pile and all around the area. And here's the thing, they don't find anything.

They even bring a cadaver dog out, but still nothing. However, a week later, a man working near the river smelled a foul odor and reported it. And when police show up to check things out, they knew immediately what they were looking at. Human remains dismembered and encased in concrete. The search team knows it's going to take some time to make an official ID,

but Tim Miller from Texas EquiSearch said he knew right away it was Vanessa because he could see a lock of her hair sticking out. They ended up finding three separate shallow graves, each one containing remains, and each hidden with cement and covered in brush. Was this like in a different area than the search? Like I guess I'm always wondering like how did they miss this?

You know, I kind of wondered that too because it was the same area that they'd searched a week before. And yeah, I guess they just totally missed it. Apparently, like the guy who first noticed the smell of decomp, he was actually out there after a fresh rain, which... Oh, so like maybe the ground was like moist and... Yeah. ...willing to give things up, if you will.

Yeah, like I mean that might explain why the search team like even missed the smell or whatever, but again, when I can't get over it, it's not like the people missed it, like the cadaver dog missed it too, which to me, I like to put so much faith in prophets. Like it seems kind of impossible. Yeah, but I also wonder like if the cement had anything to do with that,

like encasing it better? Potentially, but kind of what I wonder is like, to me there's two options, right? Like either whoever buried Vanessa out there potentially could have put her there after the last search or they had to really know a lot about how to conceal human remains. Like you said, maybe it was the fact that it was encased in cement, didn't give off any kind of scent.

And investigators are pretty sure they know who exactly it was that knew how to conceal a body. Later that night, investigators go back, not to Aaron, but again to his girlfriend, Cecily, with the news that Vanessa's body had been found by the river. And that's when the real story comes tumbling out. Cecily tells investigators that her boyfriend Aaron picked her up from the gas station where she worked,

either late on the night of April 22nd or early in the morning on the 23rd. And they drove together out to the Leon River. Aaron tells her that he killed Vanessa, that he bludgeoned her to death with a hammer in the arms room where he worked and brought her off base in a tough box. At one point, he opened the box and Cecily looked inside.

Cecily then, for whatever reason, agrees to help Aaron. And together, they use a machete type tool to dismember Vanessa's body. They then attempt to burn it, but they couldn't get it to actually work. It was not destroying her remains like they intended. So instead, they dug three shallow graves and buried her remains. Wait, but what about the concrete? Where did that come in?

So that actually happened three days after. According to the Eye of Vanessa episode of 2020, this time Aaron and Cecily come back and they come back prepared with hair nets and gloves and other gear to help ensure their DNA wouldn't be found at the site. They spent some time further dismembering her body and they tried again to burn it, but ultimately ended up pouring concrete into the shallow graves.

And it's concrete that Cecily had bought online. Cecily agrees to let investigators record her calls with Aaron and when they talk, he says, baby, they found pieces. Aaron was already under close surveillance and so the CID investigators bring him back in again for questioning. You mean they arrest him? I wish I meant that they arrested him, but no.

I guess at this point they didn't feel like there was enough evidence yet. And honestly, I don't know why he's not in custody at this point, but he's not. And because he's not, he is able to bolt out the door, run past the guy who's supposed to be watching him, and escape into the night. They immediately send out an alert to law enforcement to look out for Aaron's car and stop him when they see it, which they do. But before they can arrest him and charge him for Vanessa's murder,

he turns his own weapon on himself. So that's it, that's how the story ends, right? Well, sort of, yeah. I mean Cecily has been charged with her role in destroying and hiding Vanessa's body and faces up to 20 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000. Her trial date is set for later this month, on November 30th, actually. Okay, but whatever happened to the sexual harassment investigation?

You mentioned that one was started, but was there ever any conclusion to that? Right, yes. So they actually launched that investigation on June 18th and didn't wrap it up until early July. And officials say that they didn't find a link between the sexual harassment allegations and Vanessa's death. Okay, so then what was the motive for her murder? That's still not clear.

There are some sources that suggest it had something to do with Vanessa discovering Aaron's relationship with Cecily, which wasn't necessarily an issue except that she was still married to another Fort Hood soldier. And we might have touched on this before, but adultery can get you dishonorably discharged from the military. But according to a 2003 article in Slate by Brendan Kerner, a discharge due to adultery alone is almost unheard of. You do still see it, but it'll almost be one of those things that's like stacked on top of more serious charges. They'll just toss it in because it's there.

Yeah, and I mean my understanding is that Cecily and her husband were actually separated at the time as well. So like the real question on my mind is like what else was Aaron hiding? And here's the thing. Vanessa and Gregory are just two of dozens of tragic deaths at Fort Hood. Just this year, in the first nine months of 2020, 12 soldiers either went missing from Fort Hood or turned up dead. Two of those are the stories I told you today, but there are so many more. In May, Private First Class Brandon Rosecrans was found dead on the side of the road in Harker Heights.

Just a few minutes outside of Fort Hood shot four times. A few minutes later, authorities found his jeep on fire in another part of town. And in that case, two people from Colleen, the man who actually pulled the trigger and his girlfriend, were both charged in connection with his death. In July, Private Mayhor Morta was found dead in a US Army-owned lake about 15 miles from the base. An autopsy classified his death as accidental. And just a few weeks after that, in August, another soldier, specialist Francisco Gilberto Hernandez Vargas, drowned in that same lake in a boating accident. And then later that same month, Sergeant Elder Fernandez went missing from Fort Hood.

Another soldier who, like Vanessa, had been a victim of abusive sexual contact at work. After a week-long search, his body was found by some railroad tracks in Temple, Texas, nearly 30 miles outside of Fort Hood. It was ruled in his case that he died by suicide, which was confirmed by the medical examiner. To say there is something going on at Fort Hood would be a gross understatement. And finally, thanks in a big way to Vanessa's story, people seem to be taking notice. Even Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy has admitted Fort Hood has one of the highest rates of murder, sexual assault, and harassment of bases across the country. The guy who is leading the charge there during Vanessa's investigation has been replaced, and there's a senior officer in there now at Fort Hood conducting an in-depth investigation.

An Army Secretary McCarthy has ordered an independent review of Fort Hood's command climate and culture on the base. But the question is, will it be enough? Will it lead to real change in Fort Hood or beyond across the U.S. military? The issue with sexual harassment and assault in this kind of setting is the command culture. Like, what if the person harassing you is your superior officer? What if they are in your line of command? Victims of sexual violence in the military, including harassment, often don't report the issue because they are afraid of what might happen if they do. It's the fear of retaliation, even the fear of being labeled as the snitch or the squeaky wheel. That matters. And Vanessa's family thinks that that might have everything to do with her death. Just a few days before you and I are recording this right now, on November 3rd,

members of Vanessa's family spoke to Gloria Estevan on an episode of her show Red Table Talks. And they're adamant that there is more to this story than we've been led to believe. Vanessa's family is skeptical about so many parts of the story as we know it. Like, why did it take two months to find Vanessa? And if they knew that he was the last person to be in contact with Vanessa, how was Aaron Robinson not investigated more closely and sooner? How did he escape police custody the night that Cecily finally told her story? And the biggest question, the one that I can't even seem to wrap my head around no matter how hard I try,

is how was there, like, no blood? Or how did no one report the fact that there was blood or a cleanup in that armory room where Vanessa was killed? I mean, honestly, this is the part of the case that I just can't let go of. Like, the official story is that he bludgeoned her to death with a hammer inside that armory. And I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe that no one saw anything or heard anything and there was no blood? Yeah, that's what I can't get over either. Like, again, we didn't find out weeks later that she was missing. We knew she was missing pretty soon and we...

Yeah, they knew, like, right away, right? Yeah, and that's what I can't get over, right? Yeah, it's not like they waited weeks to, like, go. They knew she was working. They, like, go try and trace her down. They knew she was in that armory room at some point. If she really was bludgeoned with a hammer, like, we are led to believe, you're telling me there's nothing in that room? Like, when they go to check it out and everyone's saying, like, oh, she was here but she left?

Like, at some point, get what her family is saying. Something is not adding up. Either that's not the way she died or people are not telling us the whole story. Things were ignored. I don't know, but I know there's got to be more to this story. And I hope the third-party review ordered by the Army Secretary brings whatever that is to light for all of us, but especially for Vanessa and for her family. Vanessa was promoted to the rank of Specialist on July 1st, a rank she earned from the hour she spent serving her country in the Army.

The hashtag I am Vanessa Guillen Bill, which was officially introduced on Capitol Hill in September, would ensure victims of sexual harassment and assault could report their allegations to a third party and have them investigated by a third party. When our loved ones die, we want to know, we need to know that their lives mattered, that their deaths mattered too, especially when those loved ones signed on the dotted line to serve our country and fight for everything that we hold dear. The hashtag I am Vanessa Guillen Bill and the protections it provides to those in uniform, that's Vanessa's legacy, a legacy that will live on for generations to come.

The investigation into the murder of Gregory Waddell Morales is still open. CID is offering a $25,000 reward for credible information concerning the circumstances of Gregory's death. Someone knows something. If anyone listening today has information on this case, you can contact CID special agents at 254-287-2722 or you can contact your local police. You can also submit a tip online to the CID anonymously and we'll link you to that on our website. If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or showing warning signs, please talk to someone you trust.

In the United States, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 24 hours at 1-800-273-TALK. That's 1-800-273-8255 or text HELLO to 741741. We've included links to these and other suicide prevention resources on our website at crimejunkiepodcast.com. You can also find all of the pictures and our source material for this episode there as well. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Crimejunkie is an audio chuck production. So, what do you think Chuck? Do you approve?