Crime Junkie - MISSING: Susan Robin Bender

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

Susan Robin Bender got into a van in 1986 and was never seen again. Police believe the teenage girl met with foul play and have renewed the search for answers, decades after her mysterious disappearance...but her mom thinks she knows who’s responsible.If you have information about Susan’s case, please contact the Modesto Police Department at [phone]. For current Fan Club membership options and policies, please visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/. Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/missing-susan-robin-bender/

Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Delia D'Ambra. That's right, you guys. I wanted to bring on Delia because this week's episode, first of all, I mean, I just missed talking to someone, but this week's episode especially, I had to have someone to kind of dissect this with me, because it is wild. But before that, I actually have a special message from someone that you all have been missing. Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Fred.

I just wanted to hop on here and say thank you for all of the love that you've shown me in these past couple months. It has truly proven to me that there is no community like the Crime Junkie community. You all are amazing. I'm feeling better. I'm healing. I'm not quite sure when I'm going to be ready to jump back into everything yet, but I mean, you guys know how important it is to me and Ashley that these stories get out there every week. So again, thank you so much for supporting me and supporting this show while I've been focusing on getting stronger and getting healthy.

Again, thank you so much, and I love you guys. Keep sending Brit your well wishes, everyone. Again, we're going to give her all the time she needs to heal. The last thing we want to do is rush her back, but I echo what she said. Thank you all for the support while she has been out. Thank you for continuing to listen to the show. I know the episodes have just been a little bit different. The work we're still doing is so important though,

but this is why I'm so excited to have Delia on today because this case is a doozy. It's a story about a teenage girl who got into a van in 1986 and was never seen again. Now, more than 35 years later, police are taking another look at her case, hoping to give her mother some long-awaited answers and justice. This is the story of Susan Robin Bender. It's Sunday, April 27, 1986, and Patricia Chepko is worried. Her 15-year-old daughter, Susan Robin Bender, was supposed to be returning home to Modesto from a weekend trip

that she took to visit some friends of hers, an older couple named Bill and Becky, who live like 45 minutes away in San Bruno, California. But her mom hasn't seen her since she left the previous Friday on April 25. Now, Delia, when I say older, this is something that I found so strange. This couple is like her mom's age. That is kind of odd. Yeah, and the first time I heard this, I had like a record scratch moment.

Like, what the heck is this teenage girl doing traveling out of town to spend the weekend with an adult couple? Yeah. And before you even ask, like, no, they're not like family friends or anything. Actually, Patricia said that she doesn't even know how Susan became friends with this older couple. But at some point, Patricia did meet them, too. And I guess she was okay with Susan spending, honestly, practically every weekend that April at their house.

So, unconventional or not, her going there really wasn't anything new. But this is the first time that she hasn't come back. Now, there were two times in the past that she'd run away. But both of those times, she had either come home or called her mother within a few days. I mean, you see, Patricia's a single mom, Susan is her only child, and they argue sometimes. But Patricia said it was just part of her daughter becoming a teenager. But the thing is, like, during this time, they've been getting along fine. So, her running away didn't make any sense.

When Susan left her house with her suitcase on Friday morning, everything seemed normal. Susan said that she was going to go to school, then go straight to the Greyhound bus depot after that. And she promised to call Patricia when she got back to Becky and Bill's place. So, one of the first things that I think is, you know, she's 15 years old, what is a 15-year-old doing getting on a bus alone? But, like, I forget that with these stories, like, from the 1980s, like, if you wanted to travel, like, 45 minutes to an hour away, like, from your house, like, most people just, like, took the bus and, like, you know,

seeing a teenager do this back then, like, wasn't all too concerning. Plus, like, I'm assuming, you know, this bus trip was part of the deal between Patricia and Susan, like, it was safe or whatever, or, you know, maybe even Patricia gave her, you know, money to get on the bus. Like, it had to be, like, worked out somehow. Well, yeah. And, like, again, she had been visiting this couple often, and every time she would take the bus. So, her using the bus was, like, totally part of their normal routine. And so, we know she takes the bus, and we know that she gets wherever she was supposed to be going,

okay, because Susan had called that Friday night as Patricia was in bed watching TV. But it was a call that hadn't sat well with Patricia, because something disturbing happened while they were on the phone. Susan had told her mother that Becky, the woman of the couple that she was seeing, Becky wasn't there yet. She was still at work, so it was just her and this guy, Bill. So, when Patricia asked to talk to Bill, Susan hands over the phone. But when Patricia hears him speak, she realizes it's not Bill on the other end of the line. It's a man who we're going to call Roger.

Now, he's nearly 40 years old and owns a security company. And Patricia says that she actually recognized his voice, because he had been her boss for, like, a few days. And it was only a few days, because Patricia says that Roger acted inappropriately. Like, he tried to give her a massage or something, so she ended up quitting the job. So, this is, like, literally a living nightmare for a parent. Like, can you imagine, like, the worst person or, like, the creepiest person you've ever worked with, and then, like, you call your child and they're with them and you didn't know what?

Yes, same. So, here's the thing, though, about this Roger guy is, Patricia knew him outside of that job that she had for a couple of days, too. So, Roger was somewhat well-known in Modesto, which in the mid-1980s is home to about 130,000 people. You see, just the year before this, he got into some legal trouble, and he was accused of operating an unlicensed security firm. And he actually also ran for local office, though he didn't win. But between those two things, his name was in the newspaper pretty frequently.

So, going back to this being, like, a nightmare, my question is, why didn't Patricia, like, do something on this night when she's talking to her daughter and, like, finds out she's with Roger, this creepy guy? I know. So, this is something that was so hard to wrap my head around, because, yeah, she didn't like this guy. You find out your daughter's not with the people you think she's going to be with, and, again, she's with this guy that you didn't feel comfortable around, and literally our reporter, Nina, spoke with Patricia for this episode,

and she asked her that very question. And Patricia said, quote, I should have went to his house and got her. And why I didn't do that, I don't know. I don't know. And that's just haunted me all these years. I didn't get out of bed and go get her. But if I did, she would have just found some other way to go away, leave for a weekend, and then come back, end quote.

I mean, for me, this is tough, because I kind of get what she's saying with that in part. I've talked to parents who say, like, my children, we had this history of, you know, run away, not run away. And they just say, like, look, if they were going to rebel against me, whether I had come down hard on them or not, they were going to find a way to disobey me. And so I get where she's coming from, but at the same time, like, yeah, I have to imagine it has haunted her a lot.

Well, yeah. And I mean, I think it's like, you want to play the blame game with Patricia. I understand why. But I think everyone's fooling themselves if they don't think Patricia spirals every day herself on how things could have played out differently if she would have done things differently. I bet the question she didn't ask and the things that she didn't do keep her up at night. And listen, that is, in my mind, Patricia's cross to bearer, but that's not where our energy should be focused. I mean, no matter the mistakes Patricia might have made,

Susan is still missing, and she is the one who needs our attention right now. So all I know is that Patricia had told Susan to be home that Sunday, and Susan said that she would be. But Patricia waits to hear from her all day, and she doesn't show up. And she spends the next few days torn between wanting to report her daughter missing and feeling sure that Susan's just going to, like, walk through the door or call her at any minute. And finally, on Thursday, May 1st, she calls the Modesto Police Department. Patricia says that she does let detectives know about her concerns involving Roger,

but it doesn't seem like that makes any kind of difference, because the police seem to have their own preconceived notions about Susan just based on police records. Now, it seems like Susan is initially classified as a missing, runaway juvenile, but that's not to say that police do nothing. Detective Josh Grant from the Modesto Police Department told us that investigators started knocking on doors trying to speak with anyone who may have had contact with Susan, or even Patricia, for that matter. Some people that they speak with describe Susan the same way,

a carefree, social girl with a big smile who dreamt of becoming a model or an actress. And police actually also talked to a former boyfriend of Susan's, this young guy who was around her age, and they'd recently broken up because his mom didn't want him to be seriously involved with anyone. But by all accounts, the breakup went smooth. There was no animosity between them. But yeah, there's a part of me, though, that wonders if their breakup had something to do with Susan's involvement with Roger, right? I mean, if she's sneaking off to see Roger, again, whatever this kid's mom wanted him to be in a relationship or not, did it end because Susan's just not into him? That makes me wonder a lot of things.

That's what we don't know. I don't even know the basis of her connection to Roger, right? How often was she going there? How long had this been going on? I have no idea, but essentially what they know is that this kid who was in a relationship with her, it's not like he was like holding on to anything or holding a grudge, and they don't believe that he did anything or was involved with whatever reason she's not coming home. Gotcha. Now, to detectives, one of the biggest takeaways from interviewing people is that no one has seen or heard from Susan since April 25th.

She's not just a runaway who's avoiding her mom. She has managed to completely disappear. Now, of course, in any missing person's case, tracing someone's last steps becomes more difficult if there is a time lag between when the person is last seen and when they're reported missing. But as luck would have it, police are able to find a friend of Susan's who saw her that Friday afternoon at the bus depot. And that friend tells police that Susan said she was taking a bus to Carmel, which is a coastal town about two hours and 15 minutes away. Now, Roger does not live in Carmel. He lives in Modesto,

like literally less than 15 minutes away from Patricia's home. So Detective Grant says that it's possible Susan was trying to throw people off her tracks. Because pretty much every article we found says that Susan had told people, including her mom, that she was taking the bus to Carmel. And the detective says that's also what's in the early police reports. But again, if you remember from the top of the episode, Patricia's recollection is that Susan was going to San Bruno. But with these reports saying Carmel,

I'm not sure if Patricia has forgotten because it's been such a long time or if the information was wrong back then or what. But still, I mean, her telling everyone that she's going to one place, but ending up at another, that seems like a lot of covering her tracks. It's hard to believe for me that Susan would go to that length to hide her being at Rogers. I mean, it doesn't make sense. If she's trying to hide that she's at Rogers and sneaking away or something like that, but then she ultimately speaks on the phone with her mom at Rogers' house

and lets Patricia talk to him. She's not doing a very good job of covering her tracks if she's letting that happen too. I don't know, it just seems... And the thing that I don't know if we have enough information on the route that this bus would take is was it even the same bus that she could take to Carmel to also get 15 minutes away to Rogers in the same town? Or was it literally this... Because I can't imagine a whole ruse where you pack a bag, go to a bus depot,

just hoping you see someone who sees you there? Yeah, like... But then you don't get on a bus at all? That's what I don't know though. I don't know if she got on the same bus and just got off on an earlier stop. Yeah, because that friend seeing her really does seem like happenstance, like chance. And so, for then Susan in that moment to be like, oh, I need to make sure this person's off my trail, I don't know, that seems like...

I mean, she's 15 years old, right? So it's not like she's a mastermind. And maybe she was planning to go to Carmel because here's the thing is Nina actually spoke with a friend of Susan's, this woman named Sandy, who said that Susan had called her in the days leading up to her disappearance and told her that she was planning to go see her father in Carmel. So I don't know if something just fell through last minute, but this idea that she was supposed to go to Carmel seems legit.

But again, doesn't line up with what she's telling her mom, doesn't line up with it where she actually was. So no one can figure out exactly why she's saying this or why she was at that bus depot saying she's going to Carmel and that very same night ends up somewhere else. And an important thing to note, again, about where she may or may not be is that Detective Grant says that he doesn't think her father was in the picture at all by the time she went missing.

So I don't know what to make of all of the conflicting accounts, but it is interesting to note that Detective Grant doesn't find them suspicious. Anyway, it doesn't even really matter what Susan said she was planning to do or where she was planning to go because she didn't get on the bus at all. Instead, the friend tells police that she saw Susan talking on a payphone at the bus depot and about 10 minutes after that, a van pulled up outside, specifically a full-sized Olive Green 1977 Ford. According to Katie Dowd's reporting for SF Gate,

Susan got in the van seemingly willingly. Now, the friend couldn't tell if the driver was a man or a woman, but guess who drives a green van? Frickin' Roger. Of course, of course he does. I'm starting to get vibes though that maybe it could have been his idea to have Susan go do this rigmarole at the bus depot in the first place. To me, how did he even know to go to that bus depot and pick her up

if it wasn't prearranged beforehand for her to never get on a bus? Again, unless she's just there doing her own ruse and then decides to call him, is he part of this? That's my question. Is he part of her orchestrating like, hey, make sure you tell all these other people this, but then I'm going to pick you up. Well, that, again, that's what I don't know.

I don't know how long she'd been hanging out with him before if they had communication before. Obviously, if she called him to pick her up, then she has his number. They've been in communication. Again, to your point, was it planned all along that he's like, tell everyone this? Or did something happen and she's like, well, I'm not going to go to Carmel. I'm going to call my friend Roger. I have no idea.

Something interesting, though, is the friend says like she gets into that van willingly. So to me, that means she's obviously familiar with whoever is in it or driving it, right? Like she's not in distress and like being shoved into this van. So, you know what I mean? Like it's somebody and it makes sense that it possibly could be Roger. Now, going back to that van, I don't know if he owned it or just used it sometimes, but Patricia said that Roger definitely had access to one that looks exactly like the one Susan was said to have gotten in because she had seen him driving it around at times.

So about a week passes with no sign of Susan. So Patricia decides to just take matters into her own hands by confronting Roger herself. She calls him and tells him that she needs to borrow $35 and so he agrees to meet her and lend her the money and they plan to meet up at like a nearby liquor store. Now, when they see each other, Patricia tells Roger that detectives think that he was the last person to see Susan, which again, I don't even know why it's being phrased this way. Like in my mind, I'm like, yeah, of course he was. Like, you know, like he was on the phone, but I'm not.

I don't know why. We're past this. Well, yeah, that's kind of how I feel. But in response, he apparently tells her that Susan did call him so that that payphone call was to him and he even admits that he went to pick her up. But then he also says he quote, let her go and I'm not sure if he means let her go like let her out of the car or like I was holding her captive and let her go. Like, yeah, I don't, I don't love that word choice.

I think that's just super poor word choice, especially if you're talking to like the mother of this missing teenage girl. Like I let her go as she got on my van or like I dropped her off somewhere. I let her go. Yeah, I don't love it. Now, Patricia says she doesn't know what he meant by that, but I think everyone's kind of assuming he picked her up and dropped her off somewhere. But again, weird fucking way to put it.

Now, Patricia says that she mentioned this interaction to police, but the detective who worked the case at the time, this guy named Richard Reidenauer, got mad at her for speaking with Roger without checking with police first. So after that, she says they don't really share many details of the investigation with her anymore. So this is a really like frustrating thing that I see a lot. So I've interviewed a lot of families of missing or murdered people and they all tell me that there's usually like this one moment where it felt like the police or investigators just

like completely walled them off for doing something that they felt was necessary or something that, you know, really the police needed to be doing, but they weren't. But they're not. Right. And so these families, like a lot of them that I've interviewed, like they say they did exactly what Patricia did in the situation, which is, you know, speak with a person who like seems suspicious or like just someone that they think could know more information. And because they did that and like they went to that point, police sort of like make them

pay like a hefty price for doing that. And then, you know, just like completely cut them off from the flow of information. And, you know, unfortunately it's really messed up, but it's just one of those things that happens in cases like this. But like to Patricia's credit and like any family member that is going to do this, like they're just pursuing justice. Like they're just trying to get information. Yeah.

They're not trying to hurt the investigation, which is like what I think police think is going to happen. Like, oh, you know, if this information doesn't flow through us, also like, again, we can't use something he told you and you tell us we have to hear it from him. So like I understand the frustration, but at the same time, unless you have a really clear line of communication with the family and they like know what the plan is, sometimes it can feel like nothing's happening. And often sometimes nothing is happening.

Yeah. It's like, to me, there's this sense of accountability that like families have to hold law enforcement too. But at the same time, like on the flip side, I do know that like timing and processes and like when they talk to who and all that kind of stuff is like a really big tactic for law enforcement. So again, it's just this weird, it's just weird dynamic that, you know, ultimately is not great for Patricia in this case.

Right. Well, they do eventually let her in on something. So by June of 1986, something is brewing with Roger. He's being investigated for burglary and arson. According to a Modesto B article by Nancy Maranan, about a month after Susan disappeared, there was a fire at a plumbing company. The fire inspector immediately thought that it was suspicious and just a couple of weeks later in June, Roger is arrested.

Now it doesn't seem like Susan's disappearance and the fire have anything to do with each other, but during court proceedings for the arson and burglary charges, it comes to light that because of that investigation, authorities got a search warrant for Roger's business and adjoining living area. I like where this is going. The Modesto B reported that when the search was conducted, investigators found stuff that they expected to be related to the investigation, like appliances and other items belonging to the plumbing company, but Patricia told us they also found some other things.

Detective Ryne Nowher comes to her house with some clothing, underwear, bras, an address book and diaries. And he wants to know if these things belong to Susan and Patricia recognizes everything. She was the one who bought her daughter this stuff in the first place. And she asks where they found all of this and the detective tells her in Roger's apartment and in his van. But wait a minute, like it kind of makes sense, right? Her stuff being at his apartment, like that shouldn't be that surprising, right?

I mean, we know that she like snuck off or went over there and she told her mom she was actually going to like Bill or Becky's or whatever. But I mean, that stuff being there, like it makes sense to me. Like if she was willingly going there, like, was she keeping stuff? But like, it's not like they live together. You know what I mean? Like again, if she's not there, which she's not at the apartment when they go see her, like why? And here's the thing.

So maybe she leaves some clothing, some underwear, I don't know. But the thing that really stood out to her family to specifically her friend Sandy was that there was this diary that she left behind and Sandy specifically told us that that was a big deal because Susan never went anywhere without it. So wherever that diary was, Susan was there too. Like literally she would carry it with her on her as she went from place to place. She didn't leave it at home. So again, even if she's leaving her stuff at Rogers, she wouldn't leave the diary there

if she was coming and going on her own. Yeah. The diary and I would imagine too is something like for sure Patricia would absolutely recognize like, I mean, underwear and bras, like, I don't know how much my mom when I was a teenager could identify like underwear and bras. I mean, I'm not saying she did it, but the diary definitely would be something that I'd like, yes, that's my daughter's. Well, Patricia also finds out that police drilled Roger about Susan while they were questioning

him about the fire. But whatever came out of that apparently wasn't enough to do anything like they don't arrest him or anything like that, at least not on anything related to Susan's disappearance. Patricia says that she never found out what Rogers excuse was for having Susan's stuff in his house. And because this case is still open, Detective Grant won't confirm or deny any specific persons of interest or suspects, which by the way is why we're not using Roger's real name. So we don't have access to those details yet, right?

So to your point, Delia, oh, if she's coming there all the time, maybe that's an excuse, but the police won't tell us that she was coming all the time and leaving her stuff there. Yeah. And here's the other thing. Patricia's also not sure if Roger ever admitted to anything sexual happening with Susan. But she says it's obvious, especially after she contacts Becky and Bill, those friends that Susan said she was visiting all throughout April.

Because Becky tells Patricia that they haven't seen Susan in over a year. So those weekends that she said she was going to their place, her mom thinks she must have been going to see Roger. So that's a pretty significant amount of time. In my mind, I doubt though, like going back for a second, that Roger was going to provide like a detailed story of how Susan's belongings like got to his apartment, right? So just like walk through it with me for a second. Like even if the story is, oh, you know, me and Susan were in some sort of relationship,

even though like, I don't even think relationships is the right word because clearly whatever was going on between them, yeah, she's only 15. But whether like he had something to do with her disappearance, right? And that's why her stuff's at his house or he just had like a really inappropriate relationship with her where, you know, like she would sneak off to visit him, but like was lying to her mom. Could also be illegal. Like he's setting himself up either way for like, like, there's no excuse for her stuff

to be there. That's not a bad look for him at all. Like legally. Yeah, it's not like he's going to admit to any of that to police. Like he doesn't have to offer any detailed information because it's like lose, lose for him as it should be. Now Roger pleads not guilty to the arson and burglary charges that he is facing. And this is not the first brush with the law that he's had.

In addition to the charges related to his business license that I mentioned, news coverage shows that he had also been arrested for soliciting a sex worker who was actually an undercover officer and he had even been a suspect in another arson case. And that's just in California. A report in the Pensacola News Journal says that he also served time in Florida for forgery. But it seems like his luck is getting even worse because late in July, one of his employees calls police to report that Roger has been kidnapped. Wait, what?

I mean, honestly, I would say that's more than just like bad luck. That's like the worst luck, but like kidnapped. And honestly, can we say like just, let's just say abducted here because like he's not a kid. He can't be kidnapped. Yeah, that's fair. Well, according to Modesto B reporter Daryl Farnsworth, the employee tells police that as Roger was leaving work around 2am, a couple of guys dressed in dark clothing pulled up

in front of the business, dragged him into their pickup and just like sped off. Listen, right away, police are like super suspicious. For one thing, Roger is due in court in less than a week for the other charges. So like kind of convenient timing. And there's no ransom demand. There's no motive. And the employee who supposedly saw the whole thing refuses to take a polygraph. Actually, I hate this so much.

I hate it. I hate it. So investigators still have to look into this kidnapping or as you call it an abduction because he's not a kid. But Roger is not MIA for long. Just a few days later, police find him hiding out in a rundown motel in Hollywood. And Jim McClung reported in the Modesto B that police learn Roger had just bought a car using another name and even applied for a driver's license with this new identity.

But a couple of weeks later, on August 9th, Patricia contacts Detective Reidenauer and tells him something that could change everything. She says Susan came home. When police get word that Susan had gone to her house, they think maybe that's it. Case closed. But Patricia tells them that Susan only stayed for a few hours and then left again without saying where she was going. Now no matter how long she stayed, this is obviously huge and detectives jump on it.

But the thing is, it didn't happen. Patricia told us that Susan never came home, that it's just something she told police. What? Why? She wouldn't discuss why she told police that. All she would say is that she regrets it and that at the time it felt like something she needed to tell them. Now obviously because she won't talk with us about it, I can't offer any explanation

beyond that, but Detective Grant brought up a good point. He told us, quote, my opinion, I'm not a doctor or psychologist, but I can't even imagine what a mother who is maybe coming to grips or the realization that something really terrible has happened to their one and only child, I can't imagine what type of toll that would take on someone mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Sometimes that can make people do things that other people would see as being irrational. End quote. I totally get that.

I've interviewed family members before who say in this whole process, they just wanted to create a truth that would make dealing with reality easier. But unfortunately, what sucks about this is I'm sure police were even more frustrated at this point by a false report, a false citing. I have to wonder if that made them not want to put everything they had into the case because in a way, they could have felt like they were being toyed with. I don't know. I mean, this whole thing is just unfortunate.

Even though I can see where Patricia's coming from, police, by and large, do not have positive reactions to false reports. Detective Grant has it now, and he has a lot of sympathy for Patricia. I don't know what the original detectives thought, because again, this seems bananas when I read it, I'm like, why would someone do that? But you don't know the kind of trauma that a child going missing can put someone through. I can't use the same logic I would have because I haven't been through what Patricia has. As far as we can tell, it's not until a month later that Susan's disappearance gets any

mention in the media. The first article comes out on September 11, more than four months after she went missing. I'm not sure if it was because the police didn't share information at the time or the media didn't really pick up the story or what, but in the article by Modesto B reporter Daryl Farnsworth, investigators say that they believe Susan may have been the victim of foul play. But what they don't say is why they believe that. Although a few months later in another article about the case, Detective Reignauer says

that police believe Susan may be dead, and they have, quote, certain evidence to indicate foul play was involved in the disappearance, end quote. He doesn't say if he's talking about Susan's clothes and her diaries and stuff that they found at Rogers, but I mean, that's kind of the obvious guess to me, or I don't know if they found something in Rogers' van or house that was blood or I don't know. Although clearly whatever police did find out about Roger, they didn't think it was enough to arrest him, even though whatever it was they found is enough to indicate foul play.

Now to come back to Roger, right before his trial starts in December, he admits that he arranged his abduction as a hoax. Now he doesn't admit to the arson and burglary, but a jury convicts him of both of those charges. And in January of 1987, he sentenced to six years in prison. But when it comes to Susan's case, there is no resolution. The more time passes, the fewer leads come in, and months turn into years without answers. And for Patricia, every day is agony. She feels like her soul has been torn apart.

Every time the phone rings, she wonders if it's Susan, and it hurts all over again when it's not. And every time someone knocks on the door, she prays that she'll see her daughter on the other side. As much as she tries to hold on to hope, in her heart, she thinks Susan is dead. She's sure that her daughter would have reached out to someone by now if she wasn't. To make matters worse, California state records show that Roger serves less than half of his sentence, and he gets out of prison in September of 1989.

But he's not a free man for long, because in November of 1995, he's convicted of another crime, continuous sexual abuse of a child. Not a good look. And, can we just go back for a second, like, the criminal history he's already established is super interesting to me. We have, like, Forgery, Berglary, Arson, and now sexual abuse of a child. Like, this is a dangerous dude. Sex offender registry records show the victim was a 13-year-old girl, and because this is

Roger's second strike, he sentenced to 13 years in prison. Not only that, but while he's in prison on those charges, he's convicted of another crime. In 1996, he gets a one-year sentence for destruction of property to defraud, and I have to imagine investigators on Susan's case are very interested in finding out more on that sexual abuse charge. But as far as we can tell, during the mid to late 90s, again, her case stays ice cold. This doesn't, like, push it forward by any means. And then, it's not until March of 1999 when there's some movement in her case.

That's when two men named Lauren Herzog and Wesley Shermanine are arrested for the murder of another young woman. The woman they're accused of killing, Cindy Vanderheiden, has been missing for a few months by the time they're charged with her murder. Wesley is also charged with a second murder, a teenage girl named Chevelle Wheeler, who's been missing for years. Now, Lauren and Wesley are both 33, and they have been friends for ages. They grew up across the street from each other in Linden, California, which is about 40 minutes

north of Modesto. But once they're in custody, whatever loyalty they had to each other disappears fast, and you can see it happening in real time, because the Stockton record got ahold of some interrogation video footage. Ashley, you know, there's one thing I do like to spend hours watching, and that's like good old interrogation video, like you can learn so much. I've watched hours and hours. Well, and we have all of it linked on our blog post if you want to check it out.

But I will give you the highlights. Lauren tells police that he's scared of his longtime friend and that he himself never committed any murders, although he knows Wesley did. Warren says Wesley is a cold-blooded killer who has no emotions and that he may have had as many as 24 victims. According to a Stockton record article by Linda Hughes Kirchable, Lauren tells detectives that he watched Wesley kill multiple people starting with the double homicide of Howard King and Paul Kavanaugh in 1984, and then all the way up to Cindy just last year, which

means that they were like 18, fresh out of high school. And when Chevelle disappeared in 1985, Wesley was a suspect almost immediately, but without a body, police didn't have enough evidence to charge him back then. Now, thanks to advancements in DNA testing, they finally are able to match blood that they found in Wesley's house to Chevelle. Still, Wesley doesn't admit to killing anyone, not Chevelle, not Cindy, no one. Not even after investigators tell him that there's no question that the blood found in the back of his car is Cindy's blood.

So what detectives do is they try to like pit them against one another. So they ask Wesley if he's trying to protect Lauren and he says no, but he also says that Lauren has hurt a lot of people and had pulled a gun on him in the past. By the time their separate trials begin in 2000 and 2001, they're both charged with multiple murders. And in the media, they become known as the speed freak killers because authorities say that their killing sprees over the years were fueled by methamphetamine. Now Wesley is convicted of four murders and sentenced to death.

Lauren is convicted of three murders and being an accessory to a fourth murder and he's sentenced to 78 years to life. So police think that those people that they murdered are just the tip of the iceberg. Depending on the source, I've seen estimates ranging from 12 to more than 70 victims. 70? I mean, what kind of range is that? 12 to 70? I don't even know how you can say that, I know.

Yeah. So do police think that like Susan is one of these? Yeah. So to bring it back to Susan's case, there is a loose connection because it doesn't seem like police formally connect them to her case. But a private investigator named Rob Dick, who spent years looking into the speed freak killers, tells KCRA News that he thinks Susan might be one of their victims, just based on the description, timeframe, and general area of their other victims.

From 1984 until 1999, the speed freak killer's favorite so-called hunting ground was San Joaquin County, which is not far from Modesto. Because of those things, Detective Grant says that it's just kind of a potential theory that the two of them might have had something to do with her disappearance. But again, there is no direct link. Now the twists and turns in the speed freak killer's case do not end once the trials are over. Because in 2004, Lauren's convictions are overturned and appeals court rules that his

confession to some of the crimes had been coerced. So rather than risk retrial without that evidence, prosecutors give him a plea deal and he's released on parole in 2010. Again, Ashley, this is why I get so obsessed with interrogation videos, because so many times it ends up like this. Something that was said or elicited during heavy questioning, it will wind up in front of an appeals court and it could be a strong enough case to cause a real upset just like this case.

Well yeah, and as you can imagine, his release causes a total uproar. And none of the other counties want him living there. So under the terms of his parole, he has to live in a trailer right outside of the prison grounds. Like he didn't even get very far. Honestly, I didn't even know until like you told me about this, like that that could be a thing. I didn't either.

Once you're out on parole, like I was always under the impression like you're out. You can live wherever. Like I didn't know that you could just be like a cast out in like a trailer right outside the fence line. I'm assuming like this had to have been baked into his plea deal, but like that's super interesting. I've never heard of that. I have not either.

But to me, a very, very bizarre thing. So then in January, 2012, Lauren gets a call from a bounty hunter who tells him that he's paying Wesley to disclose the locations of victims to the authorities, including a well that Wesley calls Lauren's bone yard. Now, listen, Wesley still blames Lauren for all the murders, just like Lauren blames Wesley. Now that phone call clearly rattles Lauren because according to Stockton Record reporter Scott Smith, later that same day, he takes his own life. And in February, investigators follow some maps that Wesley drew and they make a gruesome

discovery in an abandoned capped well in Linden, California. They find more than 1700 human bone fragments and 100 personal items like clothing, purses and jewelry belonging to multiple victims. Now that same month, about 30 miles away from there in San Andreas, they find the remains of Chevelle Wheeler and Cindy Vanderheiden in shallow grays near a home Wesley's family used to own. That is awful. I mean, just going back to like that many remains and bone fragments, like that is horrible.

Now again, coming back to Susan's case, like at this point in, you know, Patricia's like life story, Susan has been missing for 25 years. And as far as Patricia is concerned, Roger is still suspect number one, but then Wesley sends a letter to CBS 13 News and in it, he says Lauren told him that some of his victims came from Modesto. So Patricia can't help but wonder if her daughter really was one of them. She even tells CBS 13 News that she's starting to think she may have accused the wrong man this whole time.

Those plight catches the eye of a state assembly member, Kathleen Galgiani. In March, the assembly member writes to the FBI asking the agency to collaborate with local law enforcement in the ongoing search for human remains. She mentions that Patricia is planning to start a petition calling for the FBI to intervene, which is an effort no parent should have to resort to. An assembly member Galgiani says that due to the scope and magnitude of the search, more resources are necessary. Wesley has already told authorities that he knows of two other wells containing the remains

of 20 to 30 more victims. And really, no one knows how many more places they'll have to check. Yeah, we're just going off of this guy's word, I mean. But which wasn't wrong the first time. Yeah. Now authorities eventually determine that the Linden well held the remains of three more young women or teenage girls and a 28 to 32 week old fetus. Two of the victims are identified as 19 year old Kimberly Billy and 16 year old Joanne

Hobson, who both went missing in the mid 1980s. The third victim, the mother of the fetus, is not identified. KCRA News says that she's believed to be of mixed ancestry, 16 to 18 years old and 5'1 to 5'4 inches tall. The description could fit Susan to some extent. I mean, she is Hispanic, Native American and white. And at the time she went missing, she was 5'5. And we asked police for clarification on this, but didn't get a response.

Well, I mean, the obvious question is, was Susan pregnant that we know of when she vanished? Because like, I mean, 28 to 32 weeks along, like that would be pretty noticeable, I would think. Yeah. As far as we know, she was not pregnant. But the dough network lists her DNA and dental records as available. So I have to imagine that if Susan was that dough, that authorities would already know that by now.

Oh, yeah. Now, the sheriff's office in San Joaquin County is criticized and later sued for using heavy machinery to dig up the Lindenwell. So the sheriff calls in the FBI to help search other sites that Wesley mentioned. But according to Joel Metzger's reporting for the Calaveras Enterprise, investigators don't find anything else. And then he just stops cooperating. To this day, only two people know the speed freak killers real victim count.

One of them is dead. Any other is still on death row. So there's no telling how many more people they may have killed. But even though Lauren and Wesley are the only potential suspects publicly named in media coverage about Susan's case, there's really no solid link between them. Detective Grant says that as far as he knows, neither of them have ever mentioned her and there's nothing tangible connecting them to her disappearance. So he says he's not aware of any evidence that would suggest the speed freak killers

were involved in her going missing. But interestingly, they're not the only infamous killers that people have speculated about when it comes to Susan's disappearance. I saw some comments on Facebook posts about her case where another name came up. And our fan club members should remember this one because we covered his horrific crimes just last year, and that's Larry Singleton. For anyone who didn't hear that episode or doesn't know the case, in 1978, when Larry was in his early 50s, he picked up a hitchhiker, a 15-year-old girl named Mary Vincent.

Larry raped Mary, cut off her forearms with an axe, and then left her for dead after throwing her off a cliff into a ditch near Modesto. Somehow, miraculously, she survived, and she testified against him during his trial in 1979. That's when he was convicted of seven felonies, including kidnapping, rape, and attempted murder. But he only served a little over half of his 14-year prison sentence. Once he got out, he moved to Florida and was later convicted of stabbing a sex worker

to death in Tampa, and he died of cancer on death row. That always blows my mind when the crime he was convicted of sexually assaulting and chopping her arms off with an axe, like 14 years, and he only served half of that. What are we doing? I don't know, and this is where I don't understand our justice system because, again, if he would have been successful, it was a miracle Mary survived. And if he would have been successful in what he attempted to do, then it would have been cause for life in prison without the possibility of parole.

So why, just because she was able to survive, doesn't mean like, oh, seven years. Nice try. Get him next time, which he did. Because clearly, those seven years didn't reform him because when he gets out, he commits another heinous crime in Florida, like, ugh, it's so frustrating to me. Well, ultimately, there's no direct connection between Larry and Susan. But he was in that area, plus Susan and Mary Vincent, interestingly, look a lot alike. If you actually compare pictures of Mary with Susan's, they have the same dark hair, styled

in the same way, similar features, even their smiles kind of look alike to me. Plus, they were both 15. But here's the catch, Larry was in prison when Susan disappeared. And in a creepy coincidence, he was released on April 25th, 1987, which is exactly one year after Susan went missing. So really, unless there's like a gap in prison records, it couldn't have been him. Yeah. Though, again, it comes up online all the time.

But another thing that comes up all the time is that Susan's not the only young woman to go missing under suspicious circumstances in Modesto. But Detective Grant says that there's no evidence that her disappearance is connected to anyone else's case. Now, when we talked to Patricia today, she doesn't even seem to remember her brief moment of doubt about Roger being behind her daughter's disappearance. She is sure that he was involved. Over the years, she's even been tracking his movements, and there are a lot of them.

Roger is released from prison for that sexual abuse charge in August of 2004. But according to state records, he gets sent back twice for parole violations, once in March of 2006 and again in July of 2007. Now, sometime after 2008, he actually leaves California and it looks like he lives in at least two different states before settling in Texas. And he also changes his name. And I don't know how, but it seems like he uses two different birth dates. At least there are two dates listed on the sex offender registry.

Which in my mind, again, I go back to his history of forgery and some of these other like type of like kind of schemie crimes that are nonviolent in a lot of ways. That is so common when you look at these people's backgrounds. He's got multiple birthdays, possibly multiple social securities. It's just murky. Well, Patricia says that Modesto detectives went to Texas as recently as 2020 to pay Roger a visit. She was hoping that they'd bring him back to California in handcuffs, but that didn't

happen. Now, again, she is sure that he killed her daughter and she says that she wishes police would arrest him before he dies. She told us, quote, he's not a young man anymore. With all this evidence leading up to him being the last person to be seen with my daughter. Why don't they go arrest him now since police won't name any suspects or persons of interest yet? We weren't able to find out what exactly has stopped an arrest in Susan's case.

Detective Grant says that the department often holds off on sharing detailed information, especially about suspects to protect the integrity of the investigation. They don't want to compromise a potential conviction later on. But they must think that there's something to dive into because out of nowhere in October of 2021, Modesto police announced that they've reopened Susan's case. What? I mean, like, I have to imagine something has prompted this. I mean.

Well, I don't know because in a statement posted on Facebook, the department said the homicide unit reviews cold cases just on a regular basis. And when they reviewed Susan's, they thought that there was potential to move it forward. So again, based on what they're putting out there, it was just like a normal review and this one seemed promising if they would have given it time and attention. I don't know. But I also have to wonder too, like, okay, so Patricia says like, okay, Roger is not a young man anymore.

And like, I think that's true, right? Because we said back when he was 40 and that was in, you know, the 80s. So like, maybe there's like a sense of urgency. It's like Patricia said, like, I want to know the truth before I die. But like, maybe law enforcement like really has to take this like hard look because this Roger guy. Yeah. Yeah.

And listen, I think police believe that they are like potentially close to solving this, that there's someone out there that knows something because they said that given the circumstances of the crime, quote, there may be individuals previously unidentified who may have pertinent information surrounding Susan's disappearance, end quote, previously unidentified. What? Right. Which like threw me for a loop a little bit because again, they had to have known about

Roger way back then. But based on what we know from Patricia, I don't see how police could be referring to him in that statement. Yeah. That doesn't make sense at all. And Detective Grant did say that they weren't necessarily talking about a suspect or even a person of interest being unidentified. So if I had to guess, I'd say it's someone who was around at the time who might know

things about what we're going on. Oh yeah. Like maybe, maybe like another witness to like her comings and goings to his apartment or something like, I don't know. It's been at least a decade since police have gotten any promising leads about Susan. And Detective Grant still believes this case can be solved. He says it's still active and he's optimistic that they'll be able to get a resolution, get some answers for Patricia and get justice for Susan.

All Patricia wants to know is where her daughter is and what happened to her. Some days are better than others, but every day she carries with her the pain of her only child's disappearance. The last known and reported sighting of Susan was at the bus depot in Modesto on April 25, 1986, when she got into the green van. She was wearing a light blue skirt with multi-colored dots, a light-colored blouse and a white vest. This information is going to be on our blog post and in our show notes. But if you know anything about Susan's disappearance, please contact the Modesto Police Department

at 209-572-9500. Thank you, Delia, for chatting with me over this episode. I couldn't have done this one alone. It was wild. Yeah. You guys can see all of our source material, the pictures we talked about on our blog post. It's at crimejunkiepodcast.com. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast.

And I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Crimejunkie is an audio-chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?