Crime Junkie - MURDERED: Mary Morris

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

Two women, both in the same county in Texas, are murdered within days of each other. But along with the timing and location, there’s one more big similarity that still puzzles both investigators and their families to this day…If you have any information about the murder of 48-year-old Mary Morris on October 12, 2000, in Baytown, TX, or the murder of 39-year-old Mary McGinnis Morris, found on October 16, 2000, in Houston, TX, please call Crimestoppers at 713-222-TIPS (8477). Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit: crimejunkiepodcast.com/murdered-mary-morris Don’t miss out on all things Crime Junkie!Instagram: @crimejunkiepodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @CrimeJunkiePod | @audiochuckTikTok: @crimejunkiepodcastFacebook: /CrimeJunkiePodcast | /audiochuckllcCrime Junkie is hosted by Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat. Instagram: @ashleyflowers | @britprawatTwitter: @Ash_Flowers | @britprawatTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!

Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And the story I have for you today is actually two stories about two women who were living in the same county at the same time, each living their own life until their tragic and untimely deaths, just three days apart under suspiciously similar circumstances, would link them together forever.

This is the story of the murders of Mary Morris. They'd gotten up, Mary got ready for work, Jay walked her to her car, saw her off. And it was earlier than usual, like before 6 a.m., because Mary had some extra work that she'd recently taken on at the bank, and she wanted to kind of get ahead of the day. So it's important to know that two have only been married for like five years at this point, so they're kind of still in the honeymoon phase. So it's important to know the two have only been married for like five years at this point, so they're kind of still in the honeymoon phase. And this is the second marriage for both Mary and Jay, even though they both have grown children.

They still kind of act like a young couple in love. So it was normal for Jay to call Mary all throughout the day to check in on her at work. So he tries her at work at around noon, but the line kicks straight to voicemail. And the way their phones worked was like how mine used to when I worked as a secretary at a hospital. Shout out to all my Mayo Clinic Urology homies. Basically, like I would log in and log out of the phone so that when I wasn't at my desk, it would roll to the operator. Right. So the phone would always get answered. Right. So for Mary, it rolled to voicemail. So at first, Jay's just thinking, okay, she's super busy, or maybe she forgot to take the

forwarding off. No biggie. But as the day went on, and he kept getting her voicemail over and over again, and she kept not calling back, he started to get worried. So finally, at like three or so, he just decides to call her boss at the Chase Bank where she worked. And this is when his stomach drops because he learns that Mary hadn't shown up for work at all that morning.

And there is no question in that moment for him that something is wrong because 48-year-old Mary had been a loan officer at this bank for over 15 years and never in that time had she not shown up or been laid or like done any of that without calling ahead at least. So right away Jay calls the Harris County Sheriff's Office to report Mary as a missing person. I'm kind of surprised that they took a report that early. Well, I mean, there actually might be a reason for that because I know it's we normally don't see it this quick, especially when it's just like, oh, she left, her car's missing, maybe whatever, whatever.

Yeah. But David Bloom wrote a story for the Baytown Sun that says that one of Jay and Mary's neighbors actually happens to be a detective with the Harris County Sheriff's Office. So, you know, I bet that helped, like, get their attention. Right. So once Jay knows they're coming to take the report,

he then calls his daughter to let her know. And then right after that, he calls Mary's daughter, Marilyn. And Marilyn is just as concerned as he is. The two of them basically come to the same conclusion that something probably happened to Mary on her way to work. So maybe she's been in an accident or had car trouble, something like that. And of course, that was the one day Mary had forgotten her cell phone at home.

Like it was still there on her charger. So they're thinking like, okay, she's probably stranded somewhere. She can't even call for help. So we've got to go out looking for her. And Marilyn is ready to leave right then and there to go look for her mom, but she can't because she's waiting for her kid

to get home from school. So she tells Jay, listen, I'll be over as soon as I can. We're going to go look for her. But she tells Jay, listen, I'll be over as soon as I can. We're gonna go look for her. But she also can't just sit there and wait and do nothing. So she starts making phone calls right and left. And one of the first calls she makes is to her dad, Joe Henderson.

Now, Marilyn told the Murder in My Family podcast that she grew up in what she calls the wrecker business, meaning that her mom and dad owned a tow truck company when she was a kid. And so she knows what to expect when there's an accident. And she knows that her dad will know who else to start calling, like other people in the business or friends that he made along the way in law enforcement. Maybe someone has seen her mom's Chevy Lumina.

So her dad's on it, and while she's waiting to see if anything comes of that, she starts calling hospitals to see if any of them had admitted someone named Mary Morris, or if there was even a Jane Doe. But she's just coming up empty call after call. So when Marilyn's daughter gets off the bus, they head over to her mom and Jay's place. And like the whole time this is unfolding, ever since she got that call from Jay,

Marilyn is doing that thing that I think we all do in our heads to some degree when we can't get a hold of someone that we're trying to reach. Just trying to push down that gnawing feeling that won't release its grasp, saying that something is wrong. But we all tell ourselves, this is going to be some huge misunderstanding. I'm overreacting.

This kind of stuff doesn't happen to me. But that gnawing feeling wins out and takes completely over when Marilyn pulls up to the house and finds officials there to take her mom's report. So the officials get the information they need and while they start doing their thing, Marilyn and Jay don't just wanna sit around and wait either. So they decide to get into Jay's truck

and they head out to retrace Mary's path to work that day. Now the route between her mom's house and the bank was actually a straight shot up the I-10 freeway, but this is Houston. Like, this area that they're in is Houston. It's Houston rush hour at this point, so traffic isn't moving quickly, which actually gives Marilyn lots of opportunities

to search for signs of an accident or signs of her mom's car on the side of the road. But at the same time, like, I mean, she's looking, but she just has this feeling like, oh my God, this is like taking forever. She's like, she wants to crawl out of her skin with how slow it's going. And every few feet they crawl in traffic,

she doesn't see anything. And when they finally make it all the way to the chase bank, they find that she still hasn't shown up there. Her car isn't even there. So it doesn't seem like she ever made it to the parking lot. But again, she's not in like any of the space between home and work. Right. So now, they honestly don't know where to look. But that changes just five or 10 minutes after they get back to the house because Marilyn's dad calls. And he tells her that a friend of his

who works at a local news station told him that some guy driving an ATV had found a burned out car on Crosby Lynchburg Road, which is not far from Mary's house. Now, Marilyn is straight up freaking out at this point. So she takes Jay outside to tell him what Joe found. She doesn't want to freak out the kids. And they decide that they have to go now.

So Jay and Marilyn hop in Marilyn's truck this time. Jay's in the passenger seat giving her directions because he knows this area better. And they're only about three miles from her time. Jay's in the passenger seat giving her directions because he knows this area better. And they're only about three miles from her mom and Jay's house when Marilyn sees a cop car on the side of the road that stands out like a beacon. It's sitting sort of at the bottom of a driveway with a farm gate at the end.

So she and Jay pull right up behind the car. And right away the officer gets out and comes to the window and Marilyn tells him, hey, my mom has been reported missing. We just heard that someone found a burned car somewhere around here. But the officer won't tell them anything. Like, I mean, absolutely nothing.

He just keeps saying like, you need to go home, you need to wait, you're gonna get a call as soon as officials know something, anything, whatever. I'm sorry, no,, I'm not going anywhere. You and Marilyn both, same for me, which is why she says exactly that. She's like, I'm not going anywhere. And she just keeps asking the guy over and over,

like, did you find the car here? Is it my mom's car? Are we at the right place? And she's just getting more and more frustrated because the officer isn't telling her anything besides go home and wait. But finally, I mean she is persistent enough that he breaks. He says, okay listen, yes there is a burned car, we are looking into it, but I really don't know anything else. I don't know if there's even anyone

in the car, I don't know whose car it is. I'm just here trying to keep the scene safe, so like I do need you to go. So there's nothing that they can see from the road? No, not from where they're parked. So, like I said, this was like a long driveway, and it seems like officials have everything blocked off. It's also like 6 PM at this point, mid-October, so they're quickly running out of daylight. And at this point, Marilyn realizes she's not gonna get

any more information from this guy, and there really is nothing else they can do but go home and wait. But it is a short wait because about 15 minutes after they get home, they get the knock on the door that changes their whole life. It is investigators coming to tell them that they think the burned out car

that they found a few miles away was Mary's Chevy Lumina. And they're pretty sure that there are remains in the backseat, though they can't confirm yet that they're hers because of all the damage from the fire. And listen, there's almost nothing left of the car. According to that piece by David Bloom in the Baytown Sun, anything that could melt, melted. I'm talking the engine, interior, the glass,

wiring, tires, all of it is gone. Even the trees in the area were burned. So they're working with what's left, which at this point isn't much. It sounds like more than just a car accident where the engine caught fire. It feels like arson. Oh yeah, I don't think this is something that just like happens accidentally. And this isn't like an electric vehicle. Like I've seen, I've seen those like go up in a blaze that can't even be put out. That's not think this is something that just like happens accidentally. And this isn't like an electric vehicle. Like I've seen those like go up in a blaze that can't even be put out.

That's not what this is. So how did no one see it earlier then? Well, so that's the thing and the frustrating thing because someone did see it. Someone not only saw it but reported it. And according to coverage in the Houston Chronicle, the local fire department got a report around 1020 that morning of smoke in the area. But for some reason, they just figured that someone was burning leaves or garbage, something like that.

So they just didn't bother to respond. I didn't realize responding to fires was optional. What? Me neither. Like, this isn't a super remote area or anything either. Like the car itself was pretty well hidden. It was found along a pipeline ditch behind that farm gate and some pretty, like, thick trees.

But, I mean, you have to go through a whole subdivision to get to it. And there are homes all around. So like for me, all the more reason to respond. And when I say a pipeline ditch, like, I'm pretty sure it's like natural gas and stuff. So again, I don't know whose idea was like, let's just see how it goes. And then if it like takes everything down, then we'll come out.

Like it doesn't make sense to me. But anyways, it's not until later that night that officials are able to confirm that the car is in fact Mary's. And it's a couple of days after that before Marilyn gets a call saying that they were able to identify the remains in the car as her mother's. But because of the condition of her body,

investigators weren't able to determine an actual cause of death. They, I mean, they basically had to match tooth fragments to dental records just to identify this as Mary. But they knew enough to know that they were dealing with a homicide, obviously. And I assume there's no physical evidence to work with. Correct, like the fire had destroyed pretty much everything,

which is exactly what officers think her killer intended. But why Mary was targeted in the first place becomes a huge mystery. And as detectives start investigating, they find out that Mary was this kind, devoted mom and grandmother. She'd been happily married. She and Jay had just built this new house.

They built it just outside of Houston in this suburb called Baytown. She loved horses. She loved trail riding, tending to her garden. I mean, Marilyn told Unsolved Mysteries back in 2002, quote, she was just a really good person, you know, never did anything bad to anybody. They asked everything from gambling to drugs to affairs to anything. And all the answers were no, she didn't gamble, she didn't drink nothing, end quote.

And even though investigators talked to Mary's family and her friends and her coworkers, everyone they can think of, they cannot find a single person who didn't even, not only had like her as an enemy, like they can't find a single person who didn't like her. Did she stop somewhere on her way to work where she could have been like, carjacked or robbed or something? Well, I mean, based on the route that Jay said she took when she left the house,

he thought she may have been heading to a nearby gas station, maybe to fill up her car first, which, I mean, that's not unusual for Mary or for anyone. And I know investigators go and talk to a cashier there, you know, thinking maybe someone saw her. And I think the person thought they maybe saw someone who looked like Mary that morning, but they were never able to confirm or find evidence of her actually being there. And I know the store had cameras,

but according to the Houston Chronicle, the footage was destroyed before officials had the chance to see it. I mean, we know that stuff only lasts like 24 hours or whatever. And they did check, I know her credit cards, all that stuff to see if they could confirm she booked gas, whatever. There's no charges there either. And I think they're looking at the charges like based on her bank records, because I don't think they actually

find her cards because one of the things I know is that they say that Mary's purse and her wedding ring are actually both missing from the vehicle or whatever. So they're kind of wondering if maybe robbery was the motive here. But didn't you say the fire melted the car glass and everything? Why are they suspicious that they can't find a purse? Okay, so I don't know. I'm assuming they're looking for not the purse itself, but any remains of zippers, buckles, whatever. Buckles, right. Yeah, and I get confused too because they're like, not the purse itself, but any remains of like zippers, buckles, whatever.

Yeah, and I get confused too, because right, they're like, hey, the glass melted, the tires melted. But I know that they found other pieces of Mary's jewelry, like other stuff she was wearing that day. I know they found a watch, some necklaces, other rings, but also on the same like hand, if her other jewelry is there, now robbery doesn't look like the motive,

because why wouldn't you take everything? Right. And not to mention, the crime feels too brutal to just be some random robbery. And this didn't feel random. Investigators think that whoever killed Mary set out to kill her. And the important thing to note

is that there is some time missing in this timeline, right? Like we know she left the house for work at 6 a.m. And then investigators don't think that the fire started until sometime around 10, based on that report that came in. So the big question becomes, what happened and where was Mary between 6 a.m. and 10 a.m.? According to that Baytown Sun article, Marilyn doesn't have any answers by the time she buries her mom's remains, 19 pounds of ashes and bone fragments on October 16th.

Now, when they release her mother's remains for burial, they'd forgotten to give her the jewelry that her mom still had with her. So that afternoon after the funeral, Marilyn calls the medical examiner's office to check about getting her stuff back. And the person on the other end just says, oh, you can pick up the jewelry

when you come pick up the body. And Marilyn's like, no, no, no, no, you're not understanding. Like, I just buried my mom. Like, that part is done. I just need to come get her jewelry. But the Emmy's office fights her on this. They're like, no, like in no uncertain terms,

like we have Mary Morris's body, like in our morgue right now. Well, then who did she bury? Well, that's exactly what Marilyn is asking herself. And it takes some time. Like a few different people have to get on the phone. But eventually, they figure out that the ME does indeed have Mary Morris's body in the morgue. What? A royal f*** up? Oh, no, no, no, no. They didn't mess up.

What? Everyone is right. Marilyn just buried Mary Morris. Right. And the ME has Mary Morris still in the morgue. They have a different... A different Mary Morris. Yes. Also from Harris County. Also found dead in her car. Just recently? Really recently. Like this second Mary, 39 year old Mary McGis Morris, had been found dead in her company car the same morning of the first Mary's funeral. I mean, same thing? Or is this the strangest coincidence of all time?

I don't know. I still don't know if I have the answers to that, even after, like, looking at this whole story. Or at least, I don't have the answers to that second question. I do know that this Mary's car wasn't have the answers to that second question. I do know that this Mary's car wasn't set on fire like the first one. This Mary, Mary McGinnis Morris, she died from one gunshot wound to the head. According to the Houston Chronicle, the bullet came from a gun that was registered to her husband, Mike,

and the gun was actually in the car with her. So at first, investigators thought that maybe they were dealing with a suicide. But I mean, that was quickly ruled out. So she had ripped clothes, she had signs of a beating, scratches. I mean, she'd been gagged. So they know that this is something else entirely, almost right off the bat. Now in her case, the passenger side door was also found open, and detectives found blood on it, and her keys were outside of the car.

Now, it didn't look like anything was missing, so they ruled out robbery as a motive. Where was her car? So unlike the first Mary Morris, whose car was hidden away, in that area with like trees, like away from the main roads, Mary McGinnis Morris, her car was actually found on a little road not far from the drug store that she was last seen at.

But what's interesting is like the crime scenes are close enough together that they are both investigated by the Harris County Sheriff's Office. And listen, I say close enough, but this is still a huge area of Houston. So they each have their own detectives working their case. I say close enough, but this is still a huge area of Houston. So they each have their own detectives working their case, though I mean, I'm sure they're comparing notes as they go.

I mean, you have to be. Yeah. Now in the second Mary's case, investigators start talking to the people who knew her, like her husband, her friends, her coworkers, just like they did in the other. And they start to put together a picture of who she was and a timeline of the days and weeks leading up to her murder.

And just like in the first investigation, everyone they talked to says that this Mary was also a happy, joyful person with a successful career as the medical director of several private clinics. They say she was great at her job, she worked super hard. And in an interview for Unsolved Mysteries, Mary's sister Stephanie says that she would work a 14 hour day and then like not even think twice

about going back in the evenings or on weekends if she was needed. And just like the last time, she got along with pretty much everybody at work. Pretty much everyone except... Yeah, so there was one person, this one guy, that had recently started working in one of their clinics as a nurse. And listen, the media coverage on this case,

I mean, even including statements from investigators about, like, why there was this supposed friction between Mary and this guy, it's pretty vague. They say things like he was trying to discredit her, wreck her career and the Houston Chronicle story says that he had gone to her supervisors to complain about her and questioned her authority a lot and he was just like Agitated like all the time and it had been like that from day one But things had just kind of gotten worse and worse and worse over time But interestingly the the prosecutor's podcast

did a deep dive on this case for their episode from December of 2020. And they actually talked to this guy as part of their research process. And I guess he told them that actually he and Mary had been friends, at least at one point. And he said the real issue between them, again, according to him, was that he had found out

that Mary had been falsifying records at work, like recording treatments that she hadn't actually given. So like that kind of thing. And he says that he had reported it to one of the supervisors at the clinic. So like that's his version of events. So like insurance fraud? I don't even think it was anything that nefarious. I think it was more like times where she would be helping out colleagues and friends.

And actually, on the day she was murdered, she had met her friend, Laurie, at the office to give her like either a flu shot or some kind of allergy shot or something. The source material is a little inconsistent on exactly what. But either way, it would have been okay, except that according to the prosecutor's podcast, the medical clinic that Mary ran was a private clinic for employees of this one particular company. So it wasn't like an open access clinic to anyone off the street. Now, Laurie had been an employee at one time, but she wasn't anymore at this point. So Mary should not have been treating her at all. And that's the kind of stuff it seems like she was doing that he had reported her for so like nothing that's gonna get her into trouble

With investigators or even like or like the nursing board probably would have had something to say about it And but more than anything is just like her employers like you can't be like giving away our flu shots for people That don't work here like there's like liability issues Whatever either way what we know is that something between him and Mary had definitely shifted to the point where she was actually afraid of this guy and was legit scared that he might hurt her. And the week before her death, it had all come to a head. Shortly before she was killed,

Mary had popped into her office one night after hours to just grab some papers, and when she got there, she noticed things were kind of out of place on her desk, like pictures were facing the wrong way. Someone had been in there is what she thought, which was kind of unsettling. But it's not until she walks past this guy's desk that she sees something that makes her blood run cold. Mary sees the words, death to her, written on a calendar right there on his desk. Death to who?

Who's her? Well, she took it to mean her as in Mary, and she apparently was really shaken up by this whole thing, enough that she reported it up the chain to her bosses, and they had told her, listen, stay home the next day, like let everything cool down a bit. And according to that Unsolved Mysteries episode, the guy ends up quitting his job anyway. But the Houston Chronicle, which I mean straight up names this dude,

says that at some point he comes back to the office to make sure that his time card was signed and he ends up making like a full on scene. Like Mary's friend Lori says that he was like hitting windows asking for Mary and ultimately he had to be escorted out of there. So like unhinged behavior. Yeah, basically. So it was bad enough with this guy. Mary was scared enough that that's why she started carrying a gun, the gun that was registered to her husband. And that's the one that was found at the scene. Mm-hmm, yeah.

Her husband Mike says that she had asked him to walk her through how to use it, and then she had him put it under the driver's seat of her car so she would always have it. And where was it found in the car by investigators? So I don't know exactly where it was found, but according to Roma Connors reporting for the Houston Chronicle, it's a quote,

"'Its placement could indicate it was a suicide, end quote. So within arm's reach of her. Right, but I don't know if that means like still under the seat and you could reach it or if it's like next to her or whatever. Right. Anyways, fast forward to October 15th, this is a Sunday, Mary is out running errands. She meets up with her friend

Laurie at the medical clinic like I mentioned. Then she heads to run some errands, with the last stop being this drug store. While she's at the drug store, she calls Laurie and she says there is someone there who was making her super uncomfortable. And according to Rhea Davis's story in The Chronicle, what she actually said was, there's someone here who's giving me the creeps. Like, is this a stranger or someone she knows? So she told Lori that she thought she recognized this person. She thought that maybe she'd seen them at a party before,

like, palling around actually with her unhinged coworker. But Lori says that Mary didn't sound scared so much as like, hey, just so you know, this happened. This was weird. I mean, it's weird enough for her to call and let her know. But then Mary said she was just going to make a quick stop back at the office to shut off her computer, sign out, and then she was going to go home.

But she never made it home. Her husband reported her missing that night. And then the next morning, she was found dead on that little dirt road near that drugstore. Do we know if she made it back to the office? I don't think she had time to, because about 10 minutes after she hung up the phone from that call with Lori, Mary made another call,

and that one was to 911. What? Yeah, a frantic 911 call, according to one of the investigators who worked the case. Detective Wayne Coleman from the Harris County Sheriff's Department told Unsolved Mysteries, quote, it covers the attack that happened to Mary and anybody that's ever heard that tape has just had their blood chilled listening to it. It's a very chilling, disturbing call." End quote. So, hang on. They have a recording of her murder?

I don't know. So investigators just say it covers the attack. I'm taking that to mean, like you hear everything, but I actually don't know for sure. Yeah, I guess what does it say? I wish I could tell you. I'm telling you, I don't know. Investigators have never released this tape or shared any other details about whatever they heard on it, which I feel she had to have said something, right? Especially if it was the same guy who was creeping her out the store or especially if it was someone she knew.

How would it not be on the call? Unless by the time they picked up, it like something's already happened or it's the only thing I can think of. But whatever's on that call, nobody but the investigators actually know. And I do think that they believe that whatever happened to Mary happened by someone she knew,

whether she said the name or not. And the one reason I think this is they have suggested this specifically because back in 2002, so one of the detectives told the Houston Chronicle, quote, she did not let anybody in. He's talking about her car. She did not let anybody in. It appeared it was somebody who would have been able to get into the locked car, end quote. So does that mean that the doors were locked

when they got to the scene? Wasn't the passenger side door open? Yeah, so detectives said that Mary's car had doors that locked automatically when the car was put into gear. And basically what they're saying is they think whoever attacked Mary somehow had access to the car

and they believe that the car was locked. So, so like, I'm definitely missing something. Like the, I feel like the thing that they're not saying is like, whoever did this to her had a spare key to her car, but they didn't say that outright. But the bottom line is they don't think it's a random stranger. No. Do they have any other suspects at this point or just this unhinged former coworker? Well, I mean, he's definitely on the top of the list for investigators, but actually,

there is someone else they're looking at too. Officials are also eyeballing Mary's husband of 17 years, Mike Morris. So it turns out things were not all sunshine and lollipops for Mike and Mary, and they hadn't been for a couple of years by that point. So Mike had been out of work since they moved to Houston, and they were fighting all the time. At one point, he thought Mary might have been having an affair with someone that they both knew, like a family friend, and he confronted Mary about this guy, but the guy and her denied anything inappropriate was going on.

Now, Mike says that they had moved past that, that yes, things had been rocky there for a bit, but by the time Mary died, they were in a good place. They were basically best friends, he said. Do other people say that? Uh, not so much. Yeah, so other people say that their marriage was far from ended and I mean in fact Mike was Super distrustful to the point where he would even follow her so apparently Mary had told her sister Stephanie that she had fallen for someone else and

That while she wanted to make her marriage to Mike work They were like three or four marriage counselors deep and it basically just got to the point where she was thinking about filing for divorce. So knowing all of that, combined with the fact that they learned there is a $500 to $700,000 insurance policy that Mike had on Mary, it was all making him look like a good suspect to investigators. And besides all of that, investigators just felt like Mike was stonewalling them. They say that he wouldn't let them talk to his and Mary's daughter for like two months.

And then he refused to speak with them without a lawyer present. And he wouldn't do a polygraph, which like, same Mike, but still. Like, they just felt like he wasn't being cooperative. But again, like, I also wouldn't speak to them without a lawyer. I for sure wouldn't do a polygraph.

So I'm not sure, like, I see that as guilty or just a guy trying to protect himself and his kid. I mean, especially when you've got a kid on the line, right? Like, they've already lost one parent. And Mike says, like, listen, investigators basically labeled me uncooperative as soon as I hired a lawyer. Though, you know, detectives on the other end are like, well, witnesses don't hire lawyers, suspects do.

I say, you're still the husband, so I don't care if you're a witness, I don't care whatever. Everyone should. Prime Junkie Life Rule, everyone should hire a lawyer. Right. I do think Mike was cooperative because he told the Houston Chronicle that he gave the sheriff's department access to his apartment.

He gave them fingerprints, he gave them blood samples. He just wouldn't do a polygraph. And one of the main reasons he gives is that he was taking antidepressants and anxiety meds at the time of Mary's murder and he worried about how those medications might impact the results of a polygraph, which I'm pretty sure they can. But if the Rocky marriage and the big life insurance policy and his dodgy approach with investigators weren't enough, as they go through this investigation, officials find something unexpected in Mary's phone records. So there is a phone call that Mike

made to Mary's cell phone two hours after her 911 call. Wouldn't it have been stranger if he wasn't calling looking for her? So the strange part isn't so much that Mike is making this call. The strange part is that this call connects, and then this call lasts four minutes. And this is two hours after Mary dialed 911. And was her phone found in the car with her? I don't know. So there's like no reference to the phone in the source material apart from like the mention

of the calls back and forth. But they do say that nothing is missing at the scene. So I assume it means that the phone was there. Like, I feel like they would have mentioned that the phone was gone if it wasn't at the scene. But they're also like holding stuff back still, so I don't know. Is it, is it possible the timeline is off? No, the detective said the 911 call was like recording the attack at least, right? Yeah, the attack. Like, I again haven't heard the call, so I don't know.

And here's the thing. So if you, if you go by what Mike says, Mike says the call, so I don't know. And here's the thing. So if you go by what Mike says, Mike says the call never went through. His story is that he's at the movies with his daughter at the time, and he doesn't deny making the call, but he says the phone just rang and rang and rang and rang and rang and rang and rang and rang. For four minutes? For four minutes.

And investigators call that out. They're like, who lets the phone ring for four minutes? But Mike says he did. He's like, usually there's like an automated recording voicemail that would come on, say, you know, the person you're trying to reach, blah, blah, blah. But he's like, it didn't that day. And he's like, as long as it was ringing, I would let it ring.

Which I mean, I kind of understand too. Like, if it's not, if voicemail isn't picking up, like, maybe they're going to pick up, right? And if she didn't, especially like, if she didn't have voicemail isn't picking up, maybe they're going to pick up, right? And if she didn't, especially if she didn't have voicemail and it was the person you're trying to reach, if it just kept going and you wait until you hear that four minutes is a long time, but that's a story. I mean, that means that the call was missed, right?

Do missed calls even show up on cell phone bills? You are honing in on the right thing. So they usually don't. Like, usually they only would register as a four minute call if the call was picked up and you were on the phone for four minutes. And so when they confront Mike with this, Mike is basically like, listen, the phone company made a mistake. Okay.

Say it's not a mistake though. If Mike did make the call and the call did connect, which is what the phone records show, who was he talking to? And what were they talking about for four minutes? Those are the right questions, right? So according to comments that detectives have made to Unsolved Mysteries and the Houston Chronicle, the sheriff's department's theory seems to be that Mike hired someone to kill his wife and this was him calling to confirm with that person that she was in fact dead. That's their

theory. Is there any evidence to back that up? I don't think so. I mean if there is, they haven't released it publicly, but they're not shy about insinuating the possibility that this scenario happened. I mean, a detective told the Chronicle, quote, how would someone know she had a gun in her car? If she had been killed by just anyone with a gun, that would be one thing, but she was killed with the family gun, end quote.

And then he's quoted in unsolved.com saying, quote, what you have to wonder is, what did that phone call either set in motion or end? End quote. Now there's something Mike said that a lot of people find incriminating. In that episode of Unsolved Mysteries, Robert Stack says something like,

he adamantly denies any involvement in her death. And then it cuts to Mike saying, quote, I had absolutely nothing to do with the arrangement of Mary's murder. It's a hurtful insinuation. It's absolutely untrue. And people really like hit on his words. The arrangement of her murder. Yeah, like the arrangement. And like it feels specific, but we also don't see the full tape of the interview. And if you ask me, and listen, I'm not like fighting for this guy's innocence or whatever.

I'm just like trying to bring up points. Like I'm sure he was asked something like, did you arrange your wife's murder? Like that is the running theory. Like that's not a secret, right? Like clearly that's what they think happened. And so I'm sure that was his response to that. But there is something else that makes the murder

for hire theory a compelling one. And it's a theory that might help explain the other Mary Morris's murder. So think about this, two women, both named Mary Morris, in the same city. It's not impossible to consider that maybe a hit man killed the wrong Mary Morris, especially not when you see photos of the two of them.

And I actually like, I have them, I'm going to send them to you. We can put them up. I mean, in these pictures, Mary McGinnis Morris is definitely, like, younger looking. But they have a lot of similar features, right? Like, dark hair, fair skin, like, dark eyes, maybe brown eyes, too. And they have, like, the 90s bangs that everyone had.

But they wouldn't pass for twins by any means. No, I mean, certainly not to someone who knew them well, but that's not the theory here. It's that a stranger or someone hired who probably didn't know them well could have done this. And that's not an impossible mistake to consider. But you'd think like even a shity hitman would do like some homework to know the difference between Mary Morris, the bank employee and Mary Morris, like director of a medical facility.

But maybe he is like the shiest. Like I've heard stories recently, there was actually a podcast I just recently listened to about like how this guy hired a hitman. And it's not like somebody who was actually like a regular hitman. And that is like some CIA stuff. You don't just find hitmen on the street and at a bar. Like first of all, most of the time it's someone undercover. Like that doesn't happen.

Or it's like some guy who's so hard up for cash that he's willing to do this. And this is like, there are not these guys running around with this is their full-time job is what I'm saying. Right, right. So like the chances are that it's probably the shittiest hitman. Yeah.

But like, do they even have the same car? No. So like one had a Chevy Lumina, the other drove a Dodge Intrepid. And so listen, I'm not even saying it's a perfect theory, but it's a theory that I understand. And they still at this point don't have much else in the first Mary's case.

Like that investigation is cooling off fast. And as the days tick by, investigators still in her case can't find any suspects, they can't find any motive, they can't find any evidence, they can't find any motive, they can't find any evidence to support any theories at all, unless she wasn't the intended victim. But wouldn't wild coincidence be a more plausible explanation for two women with the exact same name, Mary Morris,

like, murdered within a few days of each other in the same county? Yes, almost certainly, yes. So, a few days of each other in the same county? Yes, almost certainly yes. So, like I said, they're in the Houston area, remember? This is a huge city, even back in 2000. The population in Harris County was like over three million people. And actually, for their coverage of this case, the folks from the Prosecutors Podcast actually looked up the Harris County records from that year, and they say that in 2000, there were 300 murders in Harris County alone. There were also nine, counted nine women named Mary Morris in Harris County in 2000. And of those nine, three of them died in 2000.

Wait, there's a third dead Mary Morris in this county in 2000? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I couldn't find anything that states she was specifically murdered. We just know that she died in Harris County in 2000. But either way. Either way, with these stats, like, coincidence feels like a definite plausible explanation. But there is this one nugget in the source material that suggests otherwise. So remember Laurie, she's the second Mary Morris's friend, so she told

Unsolved Mysteries that at some point during that three-day window between the first murder and the second murder, someone made an anonymous phone call to the Houston Chronicle saying they got the wrong Mary Morris the first time. No way. Yet Laurie says she verified with someone at the Chronicle that this happened, but the series that I mentioned, the Prosecutors Podcast, during their coverage of this case,

they actually called a bunch of people who used to work there at the time because they were skeptical of this, not because they thought Lori was lying, but just because they hadn't seen much aside from just her mentioning that in Unsolved Mysteries. And this feels like something that should be a bigger part of the narrative if it happened.

Feels significant, yeah. Right, like we don't even need to talk about different theories if this really happened. And the people that they talked to said that there was never a call like that, like it just straight up didn't happen. But the theory doesn't hinge entirely on that phone call. So remember how the first Mary Morris had her jewelry still except her wedding ring? Yeah.

Okay. So the other thing that people point to is they're like, okay, maybe the killer took the wedding ring back to whoever ordered the hit as proof that the job was done, especially because she was going to be burned so badly. You know what I mean? That they're like, we need to prove that the body was hers. So that's first, Mary. And then what's so interesting is, would you believe that Mike Morris, husband of second

Mary Morris, only reported one thing missing when his wife was found dead? A ring. Mm-hmm. Now, I guess a few months later, a friend of the family noticed that Mike and Mary's 16-year-old daughter was actually wearing the ring, and when they asked Mike about it, he said that they found it after all, so like... Mm, okay. And I don't, again, right, like I don't know if it's like, oh, did this theory come out?

And then it's like, all of a sudden it's like, oh no, just kidding, like the ring showed up. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Were officials ever on board for this theory? I mean, I know they looked into it because, like, it is a really weird, wild coincidence to have two pretty similar murders happen with two people with

the same name in a three-day period. And like, given how remote the location the first Mary Morris's body was found in and the lengths her killer went to to destroy the evidence, they're like, yeah, it could be a contract killing. But they couldn't find any evidence to support this, obviously, or there would have been charges filed. And if they have evidence to support any, obviously, or there would have been charges filed. And if they have evidence to support any other version of events, they haven't shown their cards.

So they never develop a suspect in the first Mary Morris's case? No, no official ones as far as I can tell. I will say over the years, people have kind of wondered whether Mary's husband, you know, we know second Mary's husband has been suspicious. Over the years, they wonder if First Mary's husband might be as questionable as Mike was. Like, there are even some things that Marilyn can't quite explain, and those questions have actually, like,

deteriorated their relationship. Like, one of the things I like, I didn't tell you earlier when I was talking about them going and finding her car, but she talks about this on the podcast she went on. I guess when Marilyn's dad had called, right, like he's calling around to everyone being like, has an accident happened? And he finds out that there's this car burn.

He tells her where to go. He's like, okay, the car is at Crosby Lynchburg where it meets the I-10. That's what he told her on the phone. That is not where the car was ultimately. So the crime scene was on another street called Crosby Cedar Bayou. And even though they didn't know it at the time,

Jay took her right to it. Like he knew exactly where he was going. Yeah, I guess like she was gonna go turn one way and he was like no actually go this way and then that's when they ended Up finding the car and so that that ends up being strange to her the more she thinks about it Marilyn also finds out that Jay had actually been on that very road earlier that morning like Right past where Mary's car and remains were actually found. Do we know why he was out there? Yeah, so according to the prosecutors podcast, it's because he was gonna go see some horses. So fine, sure, like he had a reason to be there.

But the other thing that I found really interesting is that there are references in some of the source material to horse manure being a possible accelerant, which I've actually heard before. So Marilyn says that her mom used to keep buckets of horse manure around the property. She had horses. And she'd set it aside after mucking out the stalls. And they would use it as fertilizer for her flowers. So not unusual to have just buckets of this potential accelerant around,

something that would have burned really hot for a really long time, which is what investigators think happened, given how the car was left. And the last thing that raised eyebrows is that Jay started getting rid of Mary's stuff, like, right away after she died. Marilyn said by the time they settled her mother's estate, he was in the process of getting, not just getting rid of her stuff, getting remarried. Oh. She says he's, like like married to this young lady from Russia. He would have had to have started her visa process like pretty quickly because he was remarried within a year

of her mom's death. Wow. Now, the only blip in the first Mary's case, or both cases if you look at them together, like that has happened since all of this unfolded in the 2000s, came about six months after Mary's death. So Jay got a bill in the mail for $2,000 for charges to Mary's phone card. I know investigators looked into that and they ended up tying it back to a 16-year-old who said that she'd found the card in a purse that was in a parking

lot of a convenience store in Galveston. And the sheriff's department ruled out any connection between this 16 year old and Mary. They even tracked down the purse itself. Someone else had kept that. But the family said it wasn't Mary's purse and everything else that was originally found in it had been tossed.

So it's just like this weird thing that pops up six months later and then nobody knows what it means. And other than that, that blips six months after, there has not been any movement as far as I can tell. Not in the first Mary Morris's case, Marilyn's mom, and not in Mary McGinnis Morris's case either. And I don't know about you, Britt, but like, I would love to see something break that would either tie these cases together once and for all or break them apart once and for all. Either way, find answers for both.

So, if you have any information about the murder of 48-year-old Mary Morris on October 12, 2000, in Baytown, Texas, or the murder of 39-year-old Mary Morris, who was found October 16, 2000 in Houston, Texas, please call Crimestoppers. You can get all information anonymously, and their on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Music Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production.

So what do you think Chuck? Do you approve?