Crime Junkie - WANTED: Massachusetts Murderer

Episode Date: February 3, 2020

Is there a predator in Massachusetts who targeted two girls with an eerie connection?For current Fan Club membership options and policies, please visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/. Sources for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/wanted-massachusetts-murder/

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And today I have a story for you picked by some of our fan club members. Now we recently changed up our fan club tiers and part of the benefit at the highest level now is that those members get to help pick monthly content, the cases that are most important to them. And this month they voted that they wanted to hear about the unsolved murder of Molly Bish.

So I started researching the case and I quickly learned that Molly's case isn't a standalone one. There is a possible connection to another murder around the same area that has locals wondering if there is a murderer in Massachusetts. August 5th of 1993 was a warm day in Sturbridge, Massachusetts. A man named Richard Carranian and his three young kids didn't live in Sturbridge full time. They actually lived in a town nearby, but the family owned a little late cottage there

and they would visit in the summers. And August 5th was their second day of a week-long vacation. According to Richard, it was going to be a wonderful week filled with swimming, boating, fishing, and all of the quiet moments in between that make up a lazy summer. Now in one of those quieter moments, two of Richard's kids were getting antsy. Like sitting around all day doing nothing is an adult's dream. Like I am currently like air quotes on vacation right now and I literally spent most of the time researching writing and now recording this episode.

I would kill for a lazy day of nothingness, but we all know to kids that is the worst thing ever. It's got to be go, go, go. So two of Richard's kids, Holly who was ten and Zachary who was five, asked their dad if they can go down the street to a neighbor's house. Now this neighbor's dog just had a litter of puppies and they want to go look at them. Can I go too? Right, same.

So Richard says, sure, go look at the puppies then come right back. At eleven forty five in the afternoon, Richard watched Holly and Zachary scamper down South Shore Drive. But just a short while later around noon, Zachary returned home, but he returned alone. And this wasn't right to Richard. They left together. They should be back together. Now there's some contradictory reports that I found on why Zachary returned alone.

According to an article from the Hartford Current that ran just days after Holly went missing, it said that Zachary had gotten scared by another neighbor's dog and so he ran home. But Boston 25 News in a more recent article, like literally within the last couple of years, said that when Richard asked Zachary where his sister was, he just tells his dad that Holly told him to go home. OK, but both those things could be right. Like, maybe he was scared and she was just like, well, then leave. Like I'm a big sister.

You're a big sister. I know how it was when I was a kid. If my younger siblings were annoying me, I'd just be like, fine, whatever. I'm just going to go on without you. Oh, totally. And either way, Richard's like, this doesn't make sense. Go back and get your sister. So he sends Zachary off this time with their older brother, Andrew, to go get her and bring

her home. But they return home once more soon after to tell dad that they don't know where Holly is. Now, right away, Richard leaves the house and walks the same path his two kids would have walked to the neighbors. There's no Holly where he finds the puppies. There's no Holly on the street or anywhere with an eye shot. But what he does find is concerning somewhere on South Shore Drive, Holly's dad finds

a single bright red sneaker, one of Holly's tennis shoes. Now he knows something bad has happened. And though he tries to keep looking for on his own at first, like calling out her name, running up and down the road, he quickly realizes that this is so beyond his wheelhouse. He needs professional help. He needs police. So by 1250, just an hour after he watched his daughter walk down the street, Richard is on the phone with police in what had to have been a surreal moment.

He is reporting his daughter missing. Do we know for sure that Zach didn't see anything else? Like, I guess we don't know how long they were together when he left her, how long they've been separated. But you would think that maybe he'd seen something, right? So the short answer is, I don't know. In all the reporting that I found on Holly's case, Zachary is hardly mentioned. And I have to believe that was because I mean, he was just five at the time.

Like even if he did see something, he might not have known what he saw or been able to really articulate it or like not found importance in something, right? Or even, you know, what he saw could have been very traumatizing. But he definitely told his family that she had told him to go home, right? Like, I would think that if he could relay that, that there could be something else. Possibly. But in the same reporting from Boston 25, they speculate that maybe she told him to go home, you know, just because he was being a bother, like a kind of what we talked about

earlier, maybe he's hungry, maybe he's annoyed by that or the dog, whatever reason, like stopping a baby go home. Or perhaps he was there when Holly was actually being taken and she was telling him to get away and go home so he could like get away. To protect him. Right. So the fact that these news outlets are throwing out two wildly different scenarios like that makes me think that all Zachary could get out was like what she said, like go home and

everything kind of surrounding that and like what was happening, like he really isn't able to convey. So after Richard calls to report his daughter missing, swarms of people come out to help search for the little girl, including Holly's mother, who drives up to the cottage as soon as she finds out that her daughter is missing. Again, that shoe was assigned to everyone that Holly hadn't just wondered off on her own. Even a young 10 year old kid isn't going to take off like one shoe and then just walk

off. Something bad happened here. They search up and down the street door to door in wooded areas, but day turns tonight with no sign of Holly. And despite the additional resources that descend upon the area, and we were talking dogs, helicopters, divers, that nightmare would continue day after day until at one point the family realizes what was supposed to be their family getaway had come to an end.

And what started out as a week with such excitement and promise had quickly turned into one of the worst weeks of their lives and they would be heading home without their Holly. Searches continued for a while, but eventually were called off. It was as if Holly had vanished into thin air. And in that time, the surrounding community came together to try and support the family. In another small Massachusetts town, there was a pastor who was actually telling his congregation about Holly's disappearance. And he asked everyone there to send your prayers, send letters of support to the family.

And because of this call to action, Holly's parents actually received a very sweet note from a young girl Holly's own age. And Brett, I'm going to have you read this. My name is Molly Bish. I am 10 years old. Someday I would like to come see you. I'm very sorry. I wish I could make up to you. Holly is a very pretty girl.

She's almost as tall as me. I wish I knew Holly. I hope they found her. She is still in my heart. If you give me your address and I'll write more to you. Love, Molly. That note included a picture and she said, you know, PS, this is my family. I'm the one on my mom's lap.

I'm older now. And letters like this, encouraging supportive letters continue to come in, but all the support in the world couldn't bring them resolution or peace. And for months, Holly's family just had to wonder where she was. Was she safe? Was she hungry? Why hadn't they walked with her that day? What if they just said, no, you can't go look at the puppies?

All of this playing in their heads over and over and over until October 23rd. And they finally got the answers as to where Holly was now. In late October of 1993, hunters found Holly's remains in the neighboring town of Brimfield. Now the details surrounding this were hard for me to piece together because very little information about Holly's case has been released to the public. Some news articles had reported that her body had been found. At least one, the standard speaker newspaper, actually specified that hunters discovered skeletal remains.

Now this might not seem like a big deal to some, but to me, it really is like skeletal remains would suggest that she had been out there almost the entire two and a half months since she went missing. Whereas a body kind of indicates that perhaps she wasn't put there until sometime after she went missing and the searches were maybe called off. Well, where exactly did they find her? Was it a place that they had already searched? Well, according to that same article that said they found skeletal remains, it says

that they found her in an area that had not been previously searched, which is a little bit baffling to me because even though it was like a neighboring town, the actual location of where she was found was only like five miles ish from where she went missing. So like, listen, I've never been a search coordinator. I have never even been able to participate in a search like this. So I'm speaking from a place of total ignorance here, but I don't get how this happens. I mean, we had the dogs, we had the helicopters, people on foot and just five miles away in a wooded hunting area.

I mean, she was there the whole time. Could it maybe have been like jurisdictional, like they couldn't go there? Yeah. I mean, that's totally an option. Again, I know each agency is different and rules vary from state to state. So I don't know for sure. All we know is that she was found very close to where she was last seen alive, going to look at those puppies.

Did they release or announce the cause of death? So again, maybe. So much like the way she was found, I'm a little unsure of her cause of death as well. Because in all of the newspaper archives I reviewed for this episode, I only found one single article in the Hartford Current that said that her cause of death was strangulation. But it was never re-reported ever again by anyone. So I don't know if they knew something everyone else didn't or if that little piece got missed as the case got re-reported.

I mean, I even kind of wonder if maybe somehow the paper heard a detail like her hyoid bone was broken and maybe someone official like offhandedly made a comment like, oh, it was likely strangulation. Right. Because with skeletal remains, that would be the only way you could determine strangulation. Right. And listen, everything before and after this article is very hush-hush about what was found, the condition of her remains.

So it's hard to say for sure without some kind of corroboration. Now in the early days of the investigation, police weren't releasing a lot of information. But many people were working under the assumption that this was some kind of crime of opportunity. Like again, Holly didn't live in the area. No one knew she planned to go see those puppies. It only made sense that some awful man drove by, saw Holly and her brother and decided to act. But this was a horrifying thought because how do you catch someone like that?

Like they're almost a ghost. Of course, investigators did all of the normal things. They went door to door. They talked to the neighbors. They looked into people's backgrounds, looking for any kind of perpetrators of any crime. But again and again, they came up empty-handed. And again and again, they wondered if their guy was someone just passing through the worst possible coincidence.

And they wondered this for weeks, then months and even years. By the year 2000, that's really the reality so many people had come to believe. It was someone just passing through. It was a one in a million chance and he's probably gone now. And I think that idea left some people with a sense of peace. At least he's not here anymore. But in June of 2000, Massachusetts residents would come to realize that this man could very well still be among them.

June 27, 2000 was a hot Tuesday in Warren, Massachusetts where Molly Bish lived. It was early in her summer break and Molly, following in the footsteps of her older brother John, had gotten a summer job as a lifeguard at the local pond. Now on that day, that letter she wrote to the parents of a young missing girl almost seven years before was probably the furthest thing from her mind. Molly knew that Holly had never been found, but really nothing else like that had happened since either. Her town of Warren still seemed like a safe place.

Molly had no way of knowing that on that morning she would begin down a road that could once again intersect with Holly's. And that day started off, well, off. Instead of waking up by her alarm, Molly was awoken by her mom who told her that one of her friends had actually gotten in a car accident and was in the hospital. Now Molly was shook by this news and her mom offered to take her to the hospital and she's like, listen, we can call you into work, like I know this is, this is crazy. But Molly had just started this new lifeguarding gig and she knew that people were counting

on her to be there. So she insisted like, no mom, I need to go to work. So like she'd been doing all the mornings before this summer, Molly's mom got in the passenger seat of the car and let Molly drive them both first to the police station to pick up the two-way radio Molly would have with her on shift and then to the pond. Now her mom didn't like work there with her, but Molly only had her permit. So her mom had to like drive with her to drop her off and pick her up each day that she worked.

Sources differ on the exact time, but Molly and her mom make it to the pond sometime between 9.45 and 10 a.m. And Molly screws off to set up her station and get ready for swimmers that she knows will be arriving any minute. Sure enough, the swimmers arrive, there's like a little like swim class or lessons that are held regularly there, not like just open swim. So it is very like scheduled. And when they show up, one of the moms notices that there's just no lifeguard, which is weird.

Like this isn't a job teenagers would normally flake out on and not one that Molly would flake out on. But many of the people who showed up didn't know Molly intimately. Like yeah, it's a small town, maybe they knew her name, but to them, but she had just started working there. Exactly. And to them, a teen kid flaked on their job, maybe like it does happen, plus the first aid kit by her chair is open and her sandals are right there.

So they're thinking, you know, she's probably going to be back any minute now. But after minutes pass and then hours, concerned or, you know, maybe even frustrated parents inform Molly's boss that the lifeguard who was supposed to be on duty never showed. Now Molly's boss is a guy named Ed and Ed sees the same scene that they did. Molly's chair set up, first aid kits open, sandals are right there, but no Molly. And it's super clear to him that she had definitely been there at some point, not just because of her sandals because of that two way radio that was there to the one that Molly had to pick up and drop off like every day at the police station before and after her ship.

So the fact that she wasn't back was really bizarre. So Ed uses the two way radio to call into the police station and let them know that Molly is MIA. Now, the problem was that even though Ed thought this was off, I don't think anyone fully got the gravity of the situation because police don't like call her family right that second. They don't start a search right away. In fact, when Ed leaves the pond to go run some errands, he actually runs into Molly's older brother, John at this like local store.

And he doesn't even think to mention to John that Molly's missing or Molly's like not at her job. And listen, I think all of the crime, drink your ears just perked up a little bit. I can feel it. But that just kind of shows you how unimportant they all thought this was and not that her being missing was unimportant to Ed or to the police, but just no one was even considering the worst possible scenario. Like this doesn't happen here or at least like all of us are immediately at a 911 level

of emergency at this point. But if it doesn't happen in your town, if you aren't aware of it being a commonplace, like why would you rush it? Exactly. And I mean, again, seven years have passed since Holly's case and everyone had seemingly forgotten that stuff like this happens in small town, Massachusetts. So the original call from Ed on the two way radio to police was around 1145 by one o'clock when there's still no sign of Molly police finally call her house to see if her parents

have heard from her. When this call comes into Molly's mother, I can't even begin to imagine the sinking feeling she must have gotten in her stomach. Like, what do you mean she isn't there? I dropped her off this morning myself like just three hours ago. Why am I just finding out about this right now if she's been missing all morning? Yeah, that that timing is just driving me crazy, especially as a mom, like, I want to know immediately if something is wrong with my kid, let alone if they're missing.

Right. But this is where they are now. And all Molly's mom can think about is finding her daughter. Molly would never skip out on work willingly, like something had to be going on. Now all the while police are still trying to ease her worries. This is probably nothing teenagers do this all the time. But no, she said not her Molly, she was sure of it. So she calls up Molly's sister and asked her to help look for Molly.

They start calling friends. They're stopping by houses of people Molly knew, including her boyfriend, Steve. But call after call, drop in after drop in. No one they were talking to had seen or heard from Molly that day. As the day slips on with no sign of Molly, police become less convinced that Molly just walked off. The local police call in state investigators. And that very night, a search is underway in the area that she went missing from.

Now the first place they search is the pond, thinking that maybe Molly drowned. Okay. But she was a lifeguard. She had to have been a really, really strong swimmer. No, I know. And that's what her parents said too. Like she was a great swimmer. She wouldn't be in the pond.

But investigators have to start with the most logical explanations first and looking at the scene. I mean, again, her sandals were there. Most people don't walk off without their shoes. But maybe if she went into the water and just didn't make it out, like maybe that was an explanation for it. And it was so heartbreaking. I was watching an episode of disappeared on Molly's case called murky waters.

And her brother was telling the producers about how when he heard this, like that maybe she had drowned, he actually went into the water himself and was just like trying to find her, searching on his own up and down, going under the water, knowing that he'd be looking for her body. And eventually the professional dive teams had to physically like pull him out and tell him to stop so that they could search. But when they do search, like so many people suspected, they didn't find any sign of Molly that first day.

Now that didn't mean she wasn't in there. There was like talk of actually like lowering the water levels to the pond, trying to maybe drain it in some kind of like aid to a search. But anything that they were going to do would have to wait until the next morning. Because at this point, it's completely dark and they couldn't resume any kind of search until it was light outside. When the sun rose on the 28th, the Bish family found themselves still in the same waking nightmare as the day before.

Molly's mom couldn't shake the feeling that something bad had happened, not an accident, something worse. And she knew this in her gut because of an interaction that she had with a man the very day before Molly went missing. The exact same spot that Molly was last seen. Molly's mom tells investigators there was someone at the pond the other day. And you have to find him. He probably did something to Molly.

And investigators are like, okay, well, like who, who was at the pond? And she says, well, I don't know exactly, but she goes on to tell them this story. She says that the day before Molly went missing, so this is the 26th, she and Molly were doing their usual. Molly was driving, mom's in the passenger seat, they pull up to the pond, and Molly grabs her thing, says bye to mom and gets out of the car and starts walking to her post. But mom notices that there is another car next to her, a white sedan. And in the white sedan, there is just this man sitting there and he's watching Molly.

Instantly Molly's mom got that feeling in her stomach, the one that we've all gotten that one time or another, the one that tells you that something is wrong. Something feels bad. She catches the man's eye and he just starts staring at her, almost like mean mugging her. And she knows that this isn't right. She knows she can't just drive off and leave her daughter there. Everything in her body is telling her that she can't leave her alone with this man. So she stalls, she like gets out of the car at first, she goes to talk to Molly, and she

doesn't want to make a big deal of it or scare Molly. So she kind of just like pusses around and eventually brings it up, like, oh, I didn't know that there are just like solo guys up here while you're working. Like I didn't realize there were so many men around the pond. I kind of just pictured like kids or families and Molly's like, oh my gosh, you know, she's the invincible teenager, like, oh my gosh, mom, like they're fishermen, please don't be so traumatic. Like they're here all the time.

This is super normal. They were here when John was a lifeguard, they're here when I'm a lifeguard, they'll be here long after I leave. And I'm sure for a moment it crossed Molly's mom's mind like, you're right, I'm being crazy. So she heads back to her car, but when she reaches it, she sees the man again, still just sitting there, smoking, looking at her daughter. And she knows all over again that this isn't right, but she doesn't know what to do. She doesn't want to just like walk up to him.

That would seem so weird. And what if he was a fisherman and what would she say, like she couldn't kick him off public property, so she just kind of sits in her car and fiddles with some things, trying to like come up with a plan. But just then the man started his car and pulled away. Molly's mom breathed a sigh of relief. And when she did, she let go of all of those feelings that she couldn't explain. She was just being paranoid.

So she too started up her car and left. And likely didn't think about any of this for the rest of the day. She picked up Molly, everything was fine. Molly was right. She was a fisherman, nothing to worry about. But now, with her daughter missing, she felt that same sinking feeling in her gut. What she called paranoia two days ago, she now knew was her natural instincts. Oh, I cannot imagine just being a mom and like replaying that moment over and over and

over again in your mind, thinking like, what else, what could I have done, you know, which I'm sure she did, like, you know, she just did what she thought was right in the moment and no one can fault her for that. Like what happened to Molly is not her fault. But I think there is an important message in this story and one that I think we've hammered into people for the last couple of years, trust your instincts. You feel fear for a reason. Learn how to listen to that.

So in this moment, her mom knows that police need to find this man. But the problem is she didn't know who he was. She didn't think to take down a license plate. I mean, all she knows about the car was that it was a white sedan. She didn't know the make or the model, but she did get a good look at this guy's face when he was staring her down and she's able to work with a sketch artist to generate like a picture of this mustached man that she saw in the white sedan. Now the sketch is done and later is redone by a different artist, but I'm going to send

you both of the sketches that were done and the first sketch on the left. And then there's the updated one on the right. And then we'll also post this on our website for everyone to see as well. I mean, it does look like two different guys, but there's so many similarities. They both look around the same age, like maybe in their fifties. They have similar hair lines, mustaches, kind of facial structure, and they're just black and white sketches. So I can't really tell skin tone, but the one guy on the right kind of looks like he

might be Hispanic and the guy on the left looks pretty decidedly white. You know, it's hard to tell a lot because they're both black and white sketches, but I think like what I can tell is this guy definitely has dark hair. You can tell that there is like some light in his hair, like some grays maybe. So he definitely is like that age range that you're talking about. He has like a very distinct mustache. And even though it's hard to tell, like in the newer sketch, he almost looks Hispanic, but in everything that I've read, it was definitely a white male and you can't see in the picture,

like Molly's mom said that he had dark eyes. Now as this sketch is being created and then distributed, hundreds of people are still searching for Molly and trying to figure out who may have taken her. To do this, they're talking to everyone in her life, talking to, you know, people her parents work with, looking up local like sex offender registries. And according to the Boston Globe, apparently early on in the investigation, there were six or seven people identified as suspects very early on. Who?

Well, they never actually say all the police and the DA would announce publicly was that they had these six or seven people and they wouldn't say who they were or how they found their way onto police's radar, but of those six to seven people, plus all of the normal people investigators have to look at in the early days of the investigation, they like give out a bunch of lie detector tests right and left, and they announced that of all of those 11 people failed. So in the very early days with a handful of good suspects and people failing lie detectors, it seemed like they were close to answers, close to finding Molly.

I mean, clearly they looked into everybody that would be likely like family members and stuff like that. I assume they looked into her boyfriend, Steve, obviously doesn't fit like the sketch profile, but we know a lot of times, you know, an intimate partner can be the person who commits crimes like this. Yeah. And they did look into Steve. So he was 17, though, I mean, doesn't fit the sketch at all, but he did look kind of

fishy to police right away because according to the murky waters episode, the day that Molly went missing, he actually had a cut on his lip and a missing eyebrow ring. Now this alone obviously isn't damning, but what was was that he was telling different people different stories about why his lip was cut. But even though he looked a little bit fishy, he passed a polygraph like any entire Bish family stands behind him, though they weren't extremely close with him since his relationship with Molly was fairly new. They were still convinced like there was no way that he could do this, something so horrible

to Molly and then like turn around mere hours later after she went missing and like be with them and act normal. I mean, we've seen crazier things though. True. It appears that even investigators ruled him out as a suspect because there's very little mention of him when you research Molly's case. So I can't tell you why they ruled him out, but it seems that eventually they did. And I mean, if we fast forward a few years, her boyfriend actually ends up passing away

in a car accident. Now as much as they distribute the composite sketch in the news as high as the reward for information got as much as they interview people, give them polygraphs that are failed. And as much as people keep searching, investigators get no closer to Molly or even to answers about what happened to her. But they do come up with a theory about how she was taken away from that pond. So the pond was surrounded by woods and I guess there was this little path that led to a cemetery and because of whatever police found there, maybe tire tracks like they never

officially say, but whatever the reason, something leads them to believe that whoever took Molly parked there at the cemetery and then walked to the pond and took her away with them. Okay, Ashley, I have to know, do you think it's the sedan guy? Like for me, it makes sense. Like if Molly's mom had those instincts and they were right, and he was there the day before to do something, but realized that, you know, he'd maybe come too late, there was going to be too much traffic, people are going to see him.

So he comes back the next day with a completely different plan. That's actually exactly what I was thinking. And like I even can speculate a little bit further. And I kind of wonder if the ruse he used to get her was pretending that he was hurt. I mean, her first aid box was open and I have no clue how normal that is, like, you know, for Molly or for anyone, but I feel like you would keep that closed to keep sand and stuff out of it. But like maybe he pretended that he needed help to like get her to let her guard down.

And then as she goes to like open it, maybe he like incapacitated her or maybe even drew a weapon and got her to walk away with him willingly or, you know, under kind of duress. So again, it seems like this picture is coming together of what happened that morning. But you know, it's like, we're so close yet still so far because even though we have a when and a pretty small window of time actually, because I mean, it was literally just minutes between Molly being dropped off and swimmers arriving, we have a where we know she was taken from the pond and likely transported to the cemetery where a car was waiting. But we still don't have the who or the why and those seem completely elusive.

As months fade into years, the prevailing theory became that this was a crime of opportunity. And this is when connections start being drawn to Holly's case, Molly, Holly, they're both blonde hair, blue eyes, both the same age, though they were taken at different times in their life. And this fear begins to swell in the community as people wondered if they lulled themselves into a false sense of security. Was this man really living among them this whole time? Or did he come back just to pray on their young girls?

And the main question looming in everyone's mind was, would Molly eventually be found the same way Holly was? It had been almost three years now since Molly had gone missing, but this idea of a connection to Holly's case breathed new life into the investigation, because they knew Holly had been found in a wooded area known mostly to hunters. So then they question hunters in Molly's case, and one of them had some shocking information that would finally warm up this cold case. According to an article from the Berkshire Eagle, one hunter tells investigators that

while he was out in the town of Palmer, which is a neighboring town of war in where Molly lived, he spotted some weird cloth on the ground. It was blue cloth that looked like it could have been from a bathing suit. Now when police go and check this out, it seems almost like it can't be real. It was old, it was degraded and dirty, but it looked like the same color and same material that Molly was wearing on the day she went missing. Right away the suit is sent off for DNA testing, and a more intensive search is conducted in that area.

Weeks later, a public announcement is made. Molly has finally been found. Law enforcement confirms that DNA testing on the suit confirmed that it was Molly, and in addition to that, they also were able to uncover bones and teeth that were linked to Molly as well. Okay, but she was found in a neighboring town, like she still wasn't that far away from where everyone was looking, right? Here's the thing, I couldn't find any source material that would say exactly where the

searches were conducted, so I don't know if anyone looked in Palmer, specifically in the woods that was called Whiskey Hills where she was found, but I did find an article from the Boston Globe that said police believed she was buried in a shallow grave near where the items were found years later. So it's possible that even if that area was searched on foot, I mean, someone could have walked right over her without knowing that she was there, and it took all these years of rain and weather to uncover her grave. Does law enforcement ever release anything else, like cause of death or anything more

than what we got in Holly's case? Not really. Like her remains were found so much later than Holly's that they couldn't determine a cause of death based on just the skeletal remains alone, but all that means is like to me that, okay, we can rule out blunt force trauma, there's no damage to the skull, but everything else, we really need some kind of soft tissue to determine. And they never say anything about the hyoid boy, and I know it's what they talked about in Holly's case, but strangulation has never been mentioned in Molly's.

So as wonderful as it is to have one answer, to know where Molly was now, the realization came quickly to everyone that having her remains didn't actually get them any close to her killer. Oh, what about the area where she was found? Like did that tell them anything? Not much more than they already knew. Everyone says that the area would have likely only been known to locals and more specifically to local like hunters and fishermen.

But let me clarify just a little bit. They didn't say publicly if the site of her remains or anything found at the scene told them anything, but it's possible that they learned something because the DA in the county did say shortly after her remains were found that their list of six or seven people that they had early on in the case at some point had gotten narrowed down to two to three. I don't know if that's because of her remains, where they were found, the condition that they were found in, or if that's something they did like earlier on, and he's now just making this announcement because there's been a break in the case.

And I really believe it's possible that they had persons of interest or suspects narrowed down even further because the following year in 2004, a grand jury was called to probe into the case. They planned to call all 11 people who failed their polygraphs and basically like compel them to testify. So did anything come from that? Well, that's kind of unknown. Like right, grand jury testimonies are always secret.

I did find a 2005 newspaper article from the Boston Globe that gave a little bit of information on the proceedings. They said there was like 250 witnesses that were called, like 70 pieces of like our exhibits that were entered in evidence. And all that the DA would say was that they uncovered new leads because of this grand jury. So it wasn't enough to take a trial, but it did point them in a new or different direction. Right, but as promising as that seemed, like then nothing happened until 2009 when investigators

got their first break in the case in a long time. The year before, a man named Rodney Stanger was arrested in Florida. Now he was arrested for the murder of his girlfriend. And it might not seem like a connection at first, like Rodney is half a country away. His girlfriend was much older than Molly or even Holly. But after his arrest, the sister of the girlfriend who was murdered came forward and said that shortly before her sister's death, she had been telling her that Rodney was involved in the murder of Molly Bish, that Molly Bish case in Massachusetts.

She said that Rodney had been living there at the time. So when investigators went to check this lead out, they found that she was right. Rodney had gotten a firearms permit renewed just two months before Molly's disappearance in a town not too far away from where she went missing. And Brett, I found a picture of this firearms license on telegram.com's website. Do you notice anything interesting? Wait, what? This guy looks exactly like the guy from the sketches.

Yeah, I am going to send you right now a side by side of the two. Oh my gosh. That is eerie, Ashley. I mean, even the bags under their eyes and their jowls, this is almost creepy for sure. But here's the thing, beyond the resemblance and the fact that he might have been talking about the Bish case, what we end up learning about this guy is baffling. The same woman who alerted police to Rodney's possible involvement also went to his trailer a long time after his arrest to gather her sister's old belongings.

And according to Mass Live, when she was there, she found a bunch of young girls' hair clips, hair ties, and even a young girl's necklace, like stuff that she said was definitely out of place, stuff that she said definitely wouldn't have belonged to her sister. And she said there was also a safety deposit box key. And all of that was handed over to police. And we still don't know the outcome. If those things were ever tested, if the key to the locks box actually found anything, and we have no idea if they were able to actually definitively link any of those items found

in his trailer to Molly or to Holly. I mean, obviously, this is not a good look for this guy, but outside of living in Massachusetts, does he have any connection to Molly other than like this woman's story that her sister told her about her? And then what about Holly? Like, I guess everyone believes that they're linked, but can this guy actually be linked to her in any way? Well, here's where it gets really interesting.

So not only does Rodney look the heck of a lot like the guy in the white car, his brother Randy actually owned a white sedan that he would have had access to. So then when they start looking at his brother, Randy, they find, wouldn't you know it? In 1993, at the time of Holly's disappearance, Randy was actually living in Broomfield where Holly's body was found. And not just like the town. According to Boston 25 News, he was actually living in a tent in the woods where her body was found.

Yes. In the early days of Holly's investigation, they actually spoke to Randy Stanger about her and he was on police's radar. Okay. So was it like both brothers? We still don't know. Maybe both of them were involved. Maybe one of them is covering for the other.

Maybe they're both just like sick and twisted and acted out like in the same way at very different times to girls who were very similar or maybe just maybe they had nothing to do with it because as good as they look for it, as suspicious as everything surrounding these two men look in 2012, things were about to get much more complicated for investigators. By the time 2012 rolls around, investigators had been looking hard at Rodney Stanger for the murders of both Molly and Holly. According to Mass Live, he had even been officially named a person of interest and police also had his brother in their periphery trying to figure out how he fit into the equation.

But then they got thrown a huge curveball items from the crime scene where Holly was found or sent off for testing and a DNA match was found. Something at the crime scene matched a man, but not Rodney and not Randy. The DNA matched a man named David Pulia. Who? Exactly. Now, I have a hard time even explaining this part of the story because there's so little information that has been released, but ABC News reported that there were some items collected

back in 1993 close to where her body was found. And one of those items was linked to this David guy. So I don't know if it was something he owned. I don't know if it was like a biological sample. I have literally no idea. But let me read you a direct quote that ABC News got from an official, quote, the nature and character of the items tested as well as its condition and location upon discovery suggests that Mr. Pulia and or persons associated with him were in the immediate crime scene

area at the time relevant to Holly's disappearance and the location of her remains. End quote. Okay. But I don't even know what that means. Yeah. I don't even know what to think about this. Like, and here's the thing. After this announcement, officials named David as a person of interest, but not an actual

suspect. Okay. And like, in the statement, they also reference maybe someone else, maybe other people. And what is it that they found? Right. They say Mr. Pulia and or persons associated with him were in the immediate. So do they believe it's more than one person? I mean, again, without knowing what it was, I almost feel like we can rule out that it

was a biological sample taken from the body. Again, we don't know the condition that the body was found in, right? But it specifically said something nearby and I mean, it makes me think of like a cigarette butt or something. But oh, I didn't think of that. But that's me totally just speculating because it seems like something that would be found in the woods, you know, like, and I wonder if they found like additional cigarette butts that didn't have like his DNA had someone else's because why else would you think someone

else is there? Right. Which would mean there'd be at least another person there. But I guess what I'm coming back to is like, what did David have to say about this? Like, after all this, like they did talk to him and there was something, right? Well, here's the thing, they can't. By the time this testing was able to be done, David was already dead. He died back in 2003 from congestive heart failure.

And it's interesting because the International Business Times did a write up on him and he didn't have like quite the background that you'd expect, like no violent or sexual crimes, like no convictions, not many run ins with the law outside of like this one incident involving him buying and using cocaine. So he likely would have never popped up on anyone's radar when they were looking through like the sex offender registry or violent offenders in the area. So despite the DNA from David Poolyat and the weird links between the Stangler brothers and both victims and even other persons of interest popping up on the radar throughout

the years, nothing has ever panned out. In October of 2018, with no movement in the case, the Bish family decided to hire a private investigator named Sarah Stein to help them find out what happened to Molly. And Sarah did something interesting that I had never seemed done to date. According to Western Mass News, she held an event where she basically set up shop and said anyone who thinks that they might know anything can come talk to me like big tip, small tip, even if you don't think it's important. Listen, I'm going to be posted up here for this entire day.

Come talk to me and come talk to her. They did four separate people came forward with almost the same story, a story about a man who was staying at a campground not far from where Molly went missing. And the day that she went missing, this guy was totally MIA, but then he showed backup on the 28th the day after with his face all bloodied and scratched, quote, yelling about something bad happening in the woods the night before, end quote. So then about six months later, after this incident at the campground, these same people heard this guy talking about how he was some kind of person of interest in the case, but

had never actually been interviewed by police. Okay, but that doesn't even really make any sense. Like, how could he be a person of interest if police never even talked to him? Well, I don't know, but it obviously seemed credible enough that the PI ended up turning over this information to law enforcement. And they've been pretty close lip about any kind of details around this leak. I mean, we don't even know who this guy is that these four people came forward to talk about.

But all we know is at the end of 2019, the state police in Massachusetts announced the creation of a new unit that would be dedicated to working on unsolved crimes. And both Molly and Holly's case are going to be looked into. And I think they're going to be looked at in a whole new way because now, decades later, less and less people believe that this was a crime of opportunity and more people than ever are convinced that there was a predator in the area. Though Holly didn't live at the lake house, she visited it regularly, like maybe someone saw her.

Maybe they became familiar with her schedule and her habits. And maybe that same person did the same thing for Molly. But the question still remains, who? Who is the Massachusetts murderer? Molly's parents went on to create the Molly Bish Foundation to help other families who are faced with the same kind of tragedy. And you can find a number of resources on their website, which you can either find by Googling the Molly Bish Foundation or by going to our website, we will link out to it.

And if you have any information on either the case of Molly Bish or Holly Paranian, you can contact the Massachusetts State Police. To see the pictures we referenced in this case or to check out our source material, you can find that on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast. And we will be back next week with a brand new episode. Crimejunkie is an audio chuck production, so what do you think Chuck, do you approve?