Date Yourself Instead - What to do when they pull away + the best dating advice EVER ft. Jemma Sbeg

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

NEW YEAR, NEW EPISODES! FINALLY, I have my very first guest on the Date Yourself Instead podcast, my dear incredible friend Jemma Sbeg, who hosts the Psychology of Your 20's podcast. In this episode, we discuss what to do when someone pulls away from you, and we also cover tons of widely popular dating topics + YOUR sent in questions!!! If you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to always message me on instagram @lyss or on the podcast instagram @dateyourselfinstead. Jemma's socials: @thatpsychologypodcast and @jemmasbeg Be sure to check out Jemma's podcast here. JOIN THE DARE TO DETACH MASTERCLASS Also remember to sign up for my free higher self meditation, and free worksheet! :) xx

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of a date yourself instead. Before I dive into today's episode, for those of you who follow me on Instagram, you've seen it. The Dare to Detach Masterclass is the portal to let and go of the bullshit and leveling up your timeline. So you could attract miracles and abundance into your life, attract new job opportunities or relationship, whatever you want. You can attract miracles and abundance from this master class. Picture this. You wake up from attacks from your ex after months of not speaking,

but you don't care anymore and you're so grounded because you have done the inner work. You expected it. You go into a coffee shop and someone pays for your coffee because you just attract abundance. You quit your job and find a brand new career you're so passionate about and you're making triple the amount of money you wear at your old job. And you upgraded your entire timeline to attract the most luxury experiences. You cannot wait to jump out of bed every day because you're excited to take on every second of the journey. If you're tired of constantly holding on to who or what isn't good for you, the Daredeed Detach Masterclass is for you. Remember to use the code self-love for $20 off the program. Exclusively for the podcast listeners, you can find the link to the program

in the show notes or on Instagram at Dare to Detach. I cannot wait for you to join us and let's dive into today's episode. Whoa, that was so inspiring. That was such a good wedding. I was like, I never wear sweaters in here. I'm literally dying. Okay, so let's dive into today's episode. I am so, so freaking excited because this is my first guest on the podcast. We tried to record this last year and it just didn't work because my microphone was broken and we ended up scrapping the whole episode. Remember this.

And I am so, so excited to introduce you to Gemma who hosts the podcast. Psychology of your 20s. It's literally one of the best podcasts ever. And it's one of the first podcasts I listened to when I started really getting into podcasts and it's so inspiring. And now she's on the date yourself instead, show just crazy because you're my first guest ever. My gosh, I'm so honored.

I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited that you're in New York right now, which is crazy because, okay, Gemma's from Australia and I'll let her introduce herself a little bit if you want to talk about this. Well, I'm from Australia. I run, I feel like I say that before I even introduced my podcast, but I run the psychology of your 20s, which I started two years ago. And it's really interesting because you were also one of my first guests. Yeah.

And I remember listening to your show when I went through like a terrible breakup and then I had friends, I had friends who were obsessed with it yourself instead and I heard about you and I was like, I'm going to say I kind of manifested that way would be friends because I was like, really? I don't think I've told you this. I was like, yeah, I think that this person and I would really get along. I've decided it. And then it was so funny because I'm in New York.

I'm never here First day. I'm here first day. I come to the studio and the elevator doors are closing and who walks in but you We I don't know that was your first day here. It was my first full day in New York City. Really? Oh my god That's so funny. Wait that's and you walked in and I was like, oh my gosh And obviously like you've been on my show a couple of times now. Like you're pretty regular guests. I feel like I just released another episode with you the other day,

because every episode we do is so great. But it was never met and passed until the other day. It was insane. I was like, wow. Oh, wait, that's insane. Okay, basically, so we had planned on grabbing dinner regardless. I knew Gemma was coming to New York,

but we didn't make any plans prior to that at all. I didn't even know she was here yet. I wasn't sure what was going on. And I walked into the podcast studio and I literally see her. Like we're just, yeah. You like made eyes across the FOIA, across the FOIA, and I was like,

hello, it was really, really beautiful. It was special. But now I'm here on the show and I'm so excited because I feel like I love talking about dating, but where I'm like now in a relationship, right? Yeah. So it's like I feel like I've stopped doing like episodes about like noticing things and dating

and like situationships and stuff. And yeah, I still continue to listen. So I'm like really need to be back on the behind. I feel like that's so true. Once you actually find a happy relationship, you stop listening to dating advice, obviously. Because you're just like, I'm done. I'm good.

I find that my person's, I don't need to be advice anymore. But I still listen. Yeah. Because I'm like, also I just, I'm interested. But it's funny because it's like all the problems that I had, I can't remember them. Oh my god. I'm like, who was that guy?

That's amazing though, because that means like you truly have found someone that can, I don't know, just show up for you and be there for you. And I remember before you were in a relationship, we were talking about this fear of being alone. And that was the episode we recorded. And maybe it was meant to be that we didn't use that episode because it doesn't even apply it all anymore. It doesn't. It really doesn't. And it was interesting because I think when we did that

episode, both of us were like, we're waiting for big love. Oh yeah. We're not going to settle for little love. And I feel like I've found that. And it was so interesting to be like, oh my gosh, we've been, I've been talking about this for so long. And now I remember you were like, I'm good. Like I wanted't want to date anyone right now. And then two weeks later, you're just in a full blown relationship. I'm like, what is happening? That's so funny, because I messaged you when I was like,

guess what? Yeah. I was like, I may or may not be in love. Like, wow. Well, that's the thing. It just happens when you really aren't looking for it. And you don't want it. It happens when you don't want it.

Yeah, it's because I think it's really as you de-cent a romantic love from your life. Yes, such that it doesn't have it happens when you don't want it. Yeah, it's because I think it's because you de-center romantic love from your life. Yes, such that it doesn't have a hold on you. And I have this theory and it's not scientific. It's very, I think, quite spiritual. But if you overthink when you're going to find love, the person that you're like kind of talking to texting and you start like imagining every single future possibility, you like jinx it.

Oh, totally. Totally jinx it. totally totally jinx it because in some reality it already exists in your mind that reality already exists so you cannot recreate it the universe will not let you recreate a situation that you've already lived through we a mind blown right now it's true though right and we okay hold on we need to explain this explain this again hold on so if you are fantasizing essentially about a situation that you're in with someone and it hasn't technically already happened yet, what you're saying is like, it's not going to happen. So if you

have this guy, and you're messaging him and you're like, oh my God, he's the one we're going to get married, we're going to have children like, this is exactly like, oh, my God, by December, I'll meet his parents. And and he's gonna bring me flowers every day and all you create the reality of this relationship in your brain Before you have any sign any indication that that actually is gonna happen I automatically think that it's not going to occur because you've already created that timeline and The universe doesn't want to recreate timelines. There's this theory in physics that there's like a million, billion, trillion timelines that we're all living at once. Oh, for sure. In different realities, right? And your brain is also a source of your reality. So you've created

that timeline. You can't leave it again. So I think what happened when I met Tom was I had completely let go of any idea of what my next big love, my next love story, would look like. And I was completely surprised. And it meant that I had so much like open space to accept whatever happened without trying to create it in my brain and it not being as good. Do you know what I mean? No, I, 100% agree. I feel like every time I've fantasized over someone, it never worked out. And the one relationship that I had was, that was really special. That meant the most to me was my last relationship. And it was like a step-by-step process where I wasn't thinking

10 steps ahead with him. It was always like in the moment. And I never overly fantasized about it, which is, now I'm really thinking about, I'm like, that's a really good theory because any person I've had two high hopes for and had these crazy dreams and expectations for, it always ended up biting me in the ass and we would just end up ending pretty quickly. I love what you just said, step by step. Yeah, that's like, part I took when I met my partner. Yeah.

It was like, let's just, I don't, I remember being like, don't make any decisions before they need to be made. Don't try and speed this up. Don't try and slow it down. Just let it happen as if you are making a new friend and then it ends up being. Yeah, like no expectations, just go with the flow and put yourself as the priority and make sure that, you know, you really get to know someone before you dive into all the wedding details in your head.

Yeah, not even thinking about it, maybe a little. That's not even what we're talking about today. Yeah, we can talk about everything, honestly, because I feel like we just always go off tangent because we have so much to talk if you ever listened to one of the episodes with Lisa on my show. The first 20 minutes is just us being like one of the recent revelations that you've had in your life. Yeah. And then we just spoke. I listened to one the other day. I was listening to my own podcast. It's about to. Yeah. No, it's not. I listened to my own podcast all the time. I love the sound of my voice. It was funny. It's hilarious. I mean, I go where you're saying you have a very comforting voice. So nice things.

I don't. I'm like abrasive and crazy. I'm a crazy cab record and screaming into a microphone. But I think people also, I love listening to yours because like when I'm chilled out and I'm like waking up in the morning, you have such a peaceful tone to your voice that it's not, it's appropriate at any hour of the day. For my, you kind of have to get to your voice that it's appropriate at any hour of the day. For my, you kind of have to get in the mood for it.

Yeah, but it's also, I think you're tougher than I am. No, yeah. Writing? Yeah, I'm like, just do whatever makes you feel happy. Yeah, I'm like, just do the work therapy. And you're like, you need to take accountability for your actions. Oh, true.

I know what you mean by that. And I'm like, that's actually really good advice. I'm really harsh. I am really harsh. It's good there. I give it to people straight. But also, it's a good balance to have. Yeah, I think so.

You need to light the game in yang. Yeah. OK, so we're talking about what to do when someone pulls away from you. And what to do when you feel like someone's showing you all these red flags, but you're already in this cycle with them where you're so emotionally invested and then someone pulls back or they start changing their behaviors and you're already in deep where like you feel like you you felt like you're about to be in a relationship

with this person or maybe you are dating them already and you feel like they are on the verge of ending things with you. It could be so many different types of situations when someone pulls their energy back energetically, you feel like total crap because you're like, did I do something wrong? What's going on? And you could spiral in your head so easily and I've had this happen to me before. So I thought it would be a really great thing to cover. And like maybe hear about one or two of your experiences, if you've ever had someone kind of pull back when you thought everything was going well. Oh, yeah. If you want to start, if you can think of anything.

Oh, maybe. I'm going to jump right in. Okay, go. Go for it. I will say, I think it's really interesting that you've already made this distinction between someone you're just like just started seeing, such like getting to know, courting, I would say, and then like the person that you're dating. I think there's a very, very different situations that we'll talk about in a second. But I have definitely had this happen. And I will, I would say it's one of the one of the worst feelings that can happen when you're dating someone or when you really, really care for someone

is not having that investment, that time, that care, that love, reciprocated. It's you're just pouring into a cup that has a hole in the bottom and you're just you keep trying to fill it up and it's never going to be full because this person has already checked out of the situation. When I was 20, I went through a really terrible breakup, and it's such like a common, I think storyline, of like, your first, like, you've been in this beautiful, long-term relationship, you break up, and you immediately get into a situation. Oh, yeah.

Have you had that? Yeah, every time. Every time. Every time. I don't know how it happens for us every time. I think it's because you're like, oh my god, I have this huge emotional void and anybody can feel it right now.

Yeah, because it's so painful. You grab onto anyone that's giving you attention in that moment and they somehow are like really attractive. Oh, always. They're like the most attractive person you've ever seen and you're like, really? Okay. And you know, it's gonna be bad from the get-go,

but you're just like, great. But you're expecting. You expecting you're also like oh I've just got out of this relationship my whole perspective like my whole expectation is to find someone it's gonna commit the way that this last person committed yeah that's yeah that's like the pattern you're going off but I got into this situation ship with this man boy it's called the boy okay he was a boy like he was and it was and boy, it's called the boy. Okay. He was a boy, and it was so incredibly overwhelming, because it was just like, I had never fallen that hard for somebody.

I was in love with him. I remember telling him, on like our fourth or fifth date, I'm gonna get really attached to you. And I like to send it to him. I was like, I can just see this happening. So I'm an open book, and that was the worst. And he was, I feel like he's heard that and was like, great, I'm just gonna stop putting in any energy. But I was like, I knew it. I was like, oh gosh,

I'm about to fall madly in love with this person. And I did. And we dated for like six months. And then slowly and then not so slowly, he just started pulling away. And he started to really almost, he started to treat me badly. It was almost like he was saying to me unconsciously, I don't really want to break up with you, so I'm going to get you to do it for me. Oh my God. That's like always how it is for some reason with the situationships. It's like they won't fucking end it.

I know we'll lead it on for 10 years if they have to while you're just like sitting there crying. I'm like, let me go. But you know why it's because I don't care about you enough to treat, to let you go. If they really truly cared about you, they would be in a relationship with you, but they don't care about you.

And they don't care about your emotions. And so they are willing to see you in pain. Oh my gosh. You know what I mean? And so this is what happened and he started one big thing that I remember saying was like He started treating me really badly in front of his friends like he would put me down He would say quite like cruel things as like a joke and Then he would be like oh sorry. I'm busy. I'm busy. I'm busy and every time they do that I Think the natural instinct is to just push even harder. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yeah. You're pulling away. It must be something about me. Let me put an extra effort. Let me make all these excuses for you. Let me just almost like incessently text you. Like, I need you to reconnect with me. And that's's what happened and it did get to the point where I remember one night we were like laying in bed and I just looked at him and I was like you don't love me as much as I love you it's really obvious to me now and I cannot keep doing this like you make me feel really bad about myself you make me feel bad about myself I feel lame I feel hurt by myself. I feel lame. I feel hurt by you. I've got to go. And I remember him being like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. And then he texted me the next day and I he got his like friend to help him write the message. Oh, thank

God. I know. But then he kept he skipped messaging me. If you year and a half, I was like leave me alone. I don't leave. He literally messaged me like, I'm in a very happy relationship. He messaged me like three months ago. And I remember showing my partner and being like, uh, low. It was funny. I was like, you have no hold of me, but here I remember in the message he goes, I don't think I can, I don't think I can respect you if we keep sleeping together. As what he said to me. And I was like, wow, huge red flag. What have I been doing these last six months? If this is the opinion? I'm sorry. What did he say? He said and I it's funny because I read back these messages recently

Because I saw a friend who I hadn't seen since it ended and she was like what happened with you guys And I was like oh, let's take a trip down memory lane And he sent me this message where he was like I can't respect you if we keep sleeping together I don't even you if we keep sleeping together. I don't even understand what that means. Like, basically being like the fact that you are so committed to me and want me so badly means that I don't have respect for you. And I remember at the time I was like, that's fair.

And now I'm like, how dare he say that to me? But it's just this thing, right? Yeah. When they pull away, you're always like, that's fair. And now I'm like, how dare he say that to me? But it's just this thing, right? When they pull away, you're always like, oh yeah, they're totally right. They have the power. They're like, I'm in the wrong. I've done something that has caused this reaction and you just accept whatever that kind of throw away.

It was a huge lesson. You also just, for some reason, always feel like you're the problem and it's your fault at the end of that situation. I know for me when anyone's ever pulled away from me and they started distancing themselves out of nowhere and I was like blindsided. I was like, what did I do? And you kind of start internalizing everything and going insane because technically nothing happened. It's just there was a energy shift and you notice that person doesn't care as much anymore.

They're not willing to text you as much anymore. They're not willing to make a plan with you anymore. And nothing actually changed. It was just the way they invested their energy and you and now they're not anymore. So it's like, it's like a mind-fuck where you're just like, I did I do something? Did you lose attraction to me?

Did you lose interest? It's so easy to take it personally, especially if you're not healed. And I feel like this has happened to me way more when I was younger, and I didn't understand the power of like my own, like I didn't understand my own worth essentially, and I didn't understand my own value,

so I would take it super personally and be really hurt. Whereas now someone pulls back, I'm like, all right, time to go, this isn't my person. Cause I know the right person wouldn't just ditch me and kick me to the curb, obviously. It's like this theory you talk about, the let them theory. Yeah.

Where I think that sometimes it's not that deep, right? You know what I mean? If someone is pulling away from you, our tendency is to like look for every possible explanation as to why that is. And it's not that deep. It's just that it, if reading into it too much is, I think really harmful. It's like actually just let them act the way that they want to act. And you have to react appropriately from a place of self-respect, which is I'm not going to hold on to someone

who doesn't want to be in my life. Yeah. It's like why, you know, you, I just feel like it's having like a piece of fruit and you're afraid that you think you're gonna eat eventually and you just let it rot. And you're like, oh, but I'm so attached to this piece of fruit, you know, this is, you're never gonna, it's not gonna provide you like,

it was that easy. I know. Exactly. It's like the only analogy I can really think of right now, but it's like, this person has made a decision. Like, it's that decision to reverse. You can't do anything. Totally. And I also think it's, like, there was a situation where,

I mean, this has happened to me a few times where I noticed someone pulling their energy back and I used to make excuses about it and that's why I also let it carry on. I was like, oh, they're probably busy and then they would validate and be like, yeah, I was working and I had my friend's birthday party and then I went on vacation with my parents and people will throw crazy excuses at you to just basically keep you there. But I said this on the episode we did together on your podcast. People will just keep you there and hold you there essentially is a form of control knowing

that they have you there, but they don't actually want you and they're never going to commit to you. And that's happened to me many times where someone would want my attention and latch on to me like a leech and be like, I want to suck your energy dry and get everything I can out of you, but I don't want to be with you. I don't want to be your partner, but I want you there. And a lot of people will get themselves in situations like that, and I think it's,

I always compare these type of people to a leech, because it's like someone that just latched onto your power. And there's been times where I'm like, so in my power, so in my element, and I'm so grounded, and I'm like, I'm the best, nothing can stop me. And then I meet someone that has taken that away from me in a sense because I start giving them my energy and I start trusting them.

And then they're just there for the ride. They're not there to commit. And it in the past, it has ended up like shitting all over myself esteem. And I've been like powerless in a sense. And I'm like, oh my God, like how did I get myself to this point? Just from another person not seeing my value, but it happens all the time. And yeah, the whole pulling away thing,

I feel like also when you feel someone is taking their energy, pulling their energy back, you start to feel like you're almost like burdening them by contacting them, and continuing to text them, you're like, am I being annoying? Am I being clingy? Like just by trying to have communication

still with this person, like I thought everything was going well. And yeah. But the thing is, it's like, you said something really valuable that way. I think you feel like you're burdening them. Yeah The right person would never Feel that way about you. It's the same thing about that example you're giving someone being like I'm busy I can't text you. I can't see you. I

Don't think I fully realize this until the relationship. I mean now where it's like when someone really cares about you they will find the time and I knew everyone always said that like if they wanted to they would but it's this example of if they can't someone else will. Oh yeah. And I saw this one and I was like yeah that's so right. This last person I was with same as you. My self-esteem was so terrible. I couldn't even hold a conversation with somebody. There was like a period of three months where I had such low confidence that I would adjust, move to a new city, I would go to events, I would go to see people, I would go to parties, I would meet new people, and I didn't have anything to say. Because it was like this experience had

silenced me into believing that, yeah, it was actually I was thinking about it recently And I was like I feel like you're way different than when I met you also. I feel like I've grown so much Yeah, right like I feel like I'm so shy and I'm not a shy person But then I realized like with Tom. I was like Yeah, this person this previous person couldn't do it for whatever reason wasn't because of me they couldn't do it Yeah, they did not do it. Yeah. They did not have the capacity, but this view person does.

We're doing long distance right now for a month, so I'm sure there's people listening to this being like a month. That's nothing. But for me, it's pretty long. That is long to be aware of that one. It is, and especially like how far we are, like it's not like we can, you know, it's like 15 hour flight.

And at no point has he been too busy to call me despite time difference differences. At no point have I felt like a burden for sending him like a million photos of the Rockefeller Christmas thing. And it's just like the sense of, wow, this is such a shift for me. And sometimes it's really, I sometimes when we first started dating I'd be like, I shouldn't message him. I don't want to annoy him. I don't want to give him a reason to pull away. The right person will never find that reason. Oh, a 1,000% and I 100% agree with that because my last relationship was like that. Once you have someone that actually treats you right

and wants to talk to you and makes the time, you realize that you've been settling for total shit your whole life. Literally, you've been like, don't at me right now. And you also have thought that that was the norm at the time. Like you thought like that's how it was. Like I always thought like, this is how relationships are.

It's like me chasing after someone, me trying to make it work, me trying to figure it out. And that was all I knew. So if it's all you know, you're gonna keep settling for that because you don't actually know how good it could be. So when I started dating my ex,

I would tell in these stories of how guys would treat me and he was horrified. He was like, how did you allow someone to treat you that way? And I was like, I have no fucking clue. I thought that was normal. I thought that was just how it was. And he was like, this is insane to me,

how you allowed someone to emotionally abuse you that way. Make you feel that way about yourself. And I was like, yeah, you're right. And he set the bar so high for me. So now, from that relationship, my standards and myself worth and everything has completely shifted. And even now, he's in the army. And he reached out to me recently. And he's completely shifted. And even now he's in the army, and he reached out to me recently,

and he's in the army. Yeah, now he's in the army, and he's doing some crazy stuff right now, and his life is online, literally, his life is at risk, and he's still calling me. And I'm like, okay, so if your life is at risk, and you're still making the time to call me, that is my standard now, okay?

So when someone says, oh, you know, I had a dentist dentist appointment and I couldn't get back to you I'm like fuck that It's like it's absolutely everyone always waits 30 minutes for the dentist Don't lie. Yeah, and now on your phone. You're not sitting there in silence I've heard every excuse in the book and I won't tolerate anything anymore because I know how good it could be. And that's what that person was there to show me. I completely agree.

And I said my friends said this to me the other day because I think I have a lot of relationship anxiety where I'm waiting for him to pull away because everyone else, it's kind of sad, I've obviously, I mean, I talked to my therapist about it. Like, I talked to him about it as well, which I think is important. But my best friend said to me the other day, she was like, I don't worry about that anymore because at least I now know what healthy love feels like. If that is the only thing I take away from that. And I think it's a really important distinction to make as someone in a relationship, the difference between someone pulling away when you're just starting to date them versus someone pulling away when you are like in a relationship with them.

Because I think when you're just dating someone in the early stages, like courting them, I don't really know. Yeah, like courting? I guess, oh, like in America, in America, like, I don't even know either. Like, when you're courting someone, it's only so like British, it's all so insane. God, I know, yeah, when you're in the trouble, it's so like British. And the toll times are going to get better. I know, yeah. When you're in the trouble, I don't even found that very-

That's hilarious. No, I know. Yeah. I think everyone will know that me. I think it's good. Look it up a few. It just sounds so proper. Yeah.

It sounds like from like the 16 hundreds. Like you're Australian. I'm a bit courting her. I'm courting her. Anyhow. Like you're courting someone right. If they pull away, you don't have the commitment yet to tolerate that. You don't have the commitment, you don't have the trust to realize it, maybe it's just like a low in your relationship, maybe there's other things going on, no tolerance

for that at all. I think match their energy. Yeah, always match their energy in those moments. Oh, for sure. Like, I. There was a guy I was briefly seeing that I've spoken about on the podcast. And yeah, I don't even know. He probably, I hope he's. Is this? Yeah. Yeah.

So this guy, whatever, I'm glad I never got to emotionally invested, but it taught me a lot about myself. I'm glad I experienced it. But I was in sort of a situation ship. And he started pulling away out of nowhere. And then I found out, like he had been lying to me the whole time about seeing someone else. And he had said, oh, you know, I'm busy working.

I'm at this, I'm doing that, whatever. And lining up all these excuses and at the time, I was trying, I was trying so hard to believe him. I was trying the most to be like, I need to be trusting. I'm a trusting person. I need to be just like open-minded and understand that everyone has a life. And then like looking back after I found out that he was lying about it, I'm like, I will never fucking take it ever again.

I'm never going to listen to anyone again that says I was too busy doing this or that because it's a lie. It literally is a lie because I know for me, if I really truly, truly love someone or care about them, or at least want to invest in them and see potential in them as far as a partner, I'm not gonna fuck it up. You know, you would never. Or at least communicate before I have something to do.

Okay, I'm gonna be busy this day. And I expect the same in return. I just expect someone to be fully transparent and honest, obviously, that's another huge thing. And it's also this interesting thing where it's, is that really how you want your relationship to start? Would your soulmate treat you that way?

If you see a future with this person, do you really want to tell your kids the part of the love story where they're like dad or like their parent like ghosted you. For a week, oh so funny, like daddy ghosted me. Daddy ghosted me, like daddy liked to do to mommy for three months because he was too busy with work. Like what the hell? I'm literally dying. Do you know what I mean? That is so funny.

Daddy ghosted me. Daddy. It's gonna be my new cat for you. Yeah the cake. It's gonna be my new hat for you. Yeah, literally. It's gonna be my new hat for you. But then I think it's 2024. Daddy girls. I never said that word on the podcast.

But I also think it's interesting because if you're in a relationship with someone and they pull away, it's different. Yeah. You need to have a chat about that. Oh, for sure. I think, yeah, I mean, I remember also, there has been points in my serious relationships

where my boyfriends at the time have distance themselves and it was often because we were on the verge of break up. And I mean, there's always reasons for why people distance themselves, and not all of it's gonna lead to a break up. But that's how I kind of knew it was coming. And it was obviously different because there was so much substance behind why the breakup needed to happen. But I'm not the type of person to walk away.

It's so hard for me. Like, when I'm truly in love, I almost want the other person to do it first. Because I'm like, I can't say goodbye. I really, I have a really hard time saying goodbye and shutting the door when I'm so heavily invested. And so once I feel that pull back, I'm like oh god it's coming but that's like only from my experiences. I know there's so many different variations of like people pulling back just because they're stressed or, you know, they're just like depressed. There's so many reasons. The mental health factor is like so valuable. Because I remember like I was dating someone

and I'm not gonna say I have a lot of love for him but like at the time I have a lot of love for him, I he's not a bad guy. And that is exactly what happened where it's like for a period of our relationship he pulled the way. And if your instant reaction is to be like, I've done something wrong, you never get to the truth.

And if the, the coding stage, like, the truth is that they're not, they can't, they're not deserving of you, you need to move on. But in a relationship, I think sometimes the truth is more nuanced. And if you jump to conclusions, you can end up sabotaging the relationship when maybe they do have a reason for you. Or maybe it is that the relationship is coming to a natural close and there are things

that you could potentially be vulnerable about and discuss that could save the relationship. But if you can't, I just think it's no point hanging on to something that's not meant to be in your life. So much so that it causes you to genuinely psychological distress. Yeah, for sure. You're just, you're causing yourself pain to make someone else comfortable. And I just don't think that that's fair, really ever. No matter how long you've been with them.

Yeah, I agree. And it's so hard sometimes to walk away even when you're the one suffering and the one of pain because you love so deeply. Like I know for me, like I've been in that position before where I've like psychologically damaged myself. Just keep something afloat when I knew it was probably not the best decision. Yeah, but you're romantic, right? Oh my God. You're so deeply romantic. Once I'm in it, I'm in it, but also when I'm out of it, I'm out of it. Once I heal and I get past the tunnel of pain,

as I call it, which is like this grieving period where you feel like you're never gonna be okay. Once I get past that, I'm like, bye. Yeah, you're dead. You're out. Yeah, no, yeah, no need to keep. I feel it's like, what's the saying? Keep eating a dead horse.

Yeah, it's just my point. There was a point, I remember when I went through my last break up where I felt relief in a way, even though I wasn't in pain most of the time, there was a sense of also comfort knowing that I wasn't going to feel so much pain with someone again, at least I could heal and actually have a chance of being happy because there was a period of time at the towards the end of the relationship where I was like, I'm literally so depressed.

And yeah, to actually pull yourself out of that, there was like a little bit of like relief in it, just knowing that you could actually take time to heal in the right ways and not be obsessive over. Are you going to be together? Are we not? Is this working? Is it not? Those questions can drive you literally insane. But it's just giving it, it's just being like, I can't control this. I'm just going to give this to what I'm just going to let this free. Either we come back together or we don't, but I realize that I cannot force something. Like, I just need to, it's like this saying, I'm going to give you another horse metaphor

in the span of five minutes, but you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink, right? Like, you can force it. I can't hear so funny. I know it was an accident. Horse metaphor. Yeah, so I'm gonna just title episode. Of course, metaphor.

Of course, metaphor is 101. Be sure. But yeah, anyhow, take a host of water, come and get drink. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay, wait, so I asked some people on Instagram what questions they had for you. Oh, cute.

I saw that. Yeah, and I mean, maybe I'll chime in also Yeah, you should okay. So let's see. I'm gonna go through them right now Do you believe in love at first sight or do you think it develops over time? I believe in like attraction at first sight. I do not believe in love at first sight. Okay. I think that a lot of that is based on our types, and I think that our types are not written in stone, and that you can come to love someone

more than you ever thought you would have from their first impression. I kind of agree with that. I think I've definitely been super into someone right away, where I felt the spark in the connection, and I was like, this could go somewhere, but I've never met someone and the day I met them I knew that they were my husband. I mean some people have had stories like that though

Have you ever heard of those stories like people told me that before? But I think that what you had was a traction that just happened that this worked out that everything else came together as well like Yeah, then you actually it was it was the chance that you also had compatibility. And you also had shared values and you also had shared, shared future. Like, I do just think the initial feeling is just like a deep attraction. I agree with that. I also think love is something. And this is what my brother says. And he's happily married. And he's always told me that love is built over time.

Yeah. And I think that's such an important thing because he came from a place of building a relationship into a solid foundation, whereas I feel like he's a type of person who just really takes his time with things and he's rational in love. And he built the foundation for a solid marriage and he's been married for a very long time now.

And he was telling me, you know, that lust, that excitement you feel, like, although it could lead to marriage, it's often like, that's not the sign that that's your husband. You know, that's not the sign that that's going to be your soulmate, just because it's exciting. It's more just like the attraction, you know. The time, the moment I realized that I really loved my partner that I really loved, was off to our first fight. Aw. It was like, I already said I loved him,

and I did love him. But I was like, oh yeah, okay, this is the love of my life. This is endgame for me, was we had our first fight, and we built ourselves, it was almost like we came out stronger, we came out like bigger, we came out more in touch. That's when I realized,

and it had nothing to do with a lost or a traction. I felt in that moment, we were like, oh my God, I'm so in a way to you. But what came off to that was sort of like beautiful. I do feel like when you fight with someone really intensely and you love each other more even after, that's a sign that you're with like a really special person. He's pretty good.

Also, he's like a lawyer. He fights. He fights pretty well. So I'm like, oh God, you're like, I can't argue. I know I'm actually a totally correct. I love that though. I love that you guys also have two totally different lines of work. It's so great.

Yeah, it's actually great. It's so interesting. Okay, I have a spicy question. What is your thoughts on dating or hooking up with your coworkers? One of you's gonna have to quit eventually. Oh, I, I, 100% agree. Also, I think that's kind of like,

inappropriate in the sense of, because if things don't work out, you're putting so much on the line at risk. That's what I'm saying. And you're going into work every day, preoccupied with that probably in your head, because I know I would be. If I'm like hooking up with someone I'm next to every day,

and then some drama happens, I would wanna quit my job. I'm not gonna sit. Oh my god, yeah. But imagine being like sitting in your desk and having sex fantasies about them. But yeah, that's so distracting. Someone said it's like, either it goes really well. One of you has to break.

One of you will have to leave because it's like, well, we can't keep our lives cannot be this intertwined. It's not healthy. Yeah. Or one of you is going to have to leave because you're going to break up and it's going to be so awkward. Yeah. So I think I'll be honest, I've done it.

I've indated. I've hooked up with someone that I worked with. And that is exactly what happened. Yeah. It's almost like the same with looking up with a roommate. Like you spend so much time in the office and it work. Like obviously it feels good because you have so much to talk about. Like, work is the center of your lives. Yeah. Of your romantic relationship. Is that really what you want? It's hard to make it. I think it's hard to keep it healthy. I'm sure people have done it. I just

haven't seen it happen. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm sure there's always those like rare cases where you're like, okay, they ended up getting married. They, you know, worked in the same cubicle and whatever. But have you seen that movie? I don't know. He's not, he's just not that into you? Yeah, yeah. Where it's like, you are not the exception, you're the rule. Yeah. Everyone always wants to tell you the story of the exception. So like, well, I have a friend and she was dating a couple of us and now they're married and they have three kids. But that's the exception. I'll be stopped reading into it.

Okay, this is a good one. How much can a guy change? Can he ever truly change? How much he cares about you? I've thought about this a lot. I think that... I don't really think that the, I don't really think that people change

all too much from who they are. I think that our personality stays pretty consistent throughout our lives, but I do think that people can change if they're committed to it. The thing is, is that in that situation where you're like, can they change how much they care about me? I think that's wishful thinking,

because they have to do it themselves. And I also don't think that like caring and love and compassion is something that should be forced. Yeah, you know what I mean? If that person doesn't care about you, no matter what you say, no matter what, I don't think that it's like something that you can artificially create.

So I would say that instead of looking to this person to change, look to somebody else who's already done the work, you know, it's like the difference between buying something from my key of us is buying something that's already made. Do you really want to put that all together right now? Well, you're the queen of metaphor. You're realizing that. Wow. You really are. That's a really metaphor episode. Yeah, no, honestly, that was a really good metaphor because I think I have this tendency to try to fix people also. And I think it's episode. Yeah, no, honestly, that was a really good metaphor because I think I have this tendency to try to fix people also. And I think it's why.

Yeah, I think it's like this fun project for me sometimes to be like, oh, well, I see the potential in them. So let me just see if they could care more. And I think that's a common thing with a lot of people because when you see the potential, it's easy to get fixated on that and be like, well, you know, it's worth the investment that I'm going to put in to try to see that potential. But I agree with everything you just said. You can't force someone to care more. And

I don't think it has to come naturally to them out of a need of like them wanting to care more and show up for you. And most times, as you said, I think personality say pretty consistent. Yeah. And people don't change at their core, I think personality stay pretty consistent. Yeah. And people don't change at their core. I think you can evolve and up level and change your environment and change your job. And you know, you could attract new things into your life and obviously your circumstances will change,

but I think at your core, you always stay the same. And in that instance, like you have an intention to do it that is self, that is internal. You made that decision to up level your life. You made that decision to be better. I think if you're trying to force someone to do it that is self that is internal. You made that decision to up level your life. You made that decision to be better. I think if you're trying to force someone to do that for you, it never works. I really want to do it. Such a good point. Such a good point. Oh my god. This episode was so good. I'm so happy. I'm going to listen to it. Yeah, I'm so excited and I'm so happy because this was a long time coming

also because I've been like putting off the guest episode thing for so long, just because like I listen to go up. I'm so excited. No, I really am. I'm also just fun. Because it's less, I think it's like just fun to have chats. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure. So I love it. Okay. Well, I'm going to wrap this up.. Okay, well, I'm gonna wrap this up. All right, guys, I think that concludes today's episode. Thank you so much for listening as always. If you haven't already, be sure to rate the podcast on Apple and Spotify and always feel free to DM me

at date yourself instead or on my personal account at lists. Be sure to also check out the masterclass at Dare to D. Tatch on Instagram or you could always go to the show notes as well. I love you. Have an amazing day and stay tuned for next Monday.