Dear Hank & John - 348: Good Old Demily

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Do you have questions? This week only, Hank Green and John Green have exactly zero answers! Just a real human conversation about pilfered lemurs, secret playlists, and past mortifications. If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn

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I think every time about the doctor, doctor, never sneezed or scrooge. Yeah. And it's astonishing the power he has over me. This person I've never met and never will meet. What if it wasn't real? Because it does, it seems unreal. It doesn't seem unreal to me. I bet there's a doctor out there who's an allergist, who's are you checking to see if you're recording? Yeah, are you recording? I'm going now.

Levels look good. Listen, y'all, you need to know two things. The first is that Hank and I are in real life together. And the second is that we are going to try an experimental one-time only format for this podcast, in which Hank puts away his laptop, which is the hardest thing for him to do in the world. Hold on, I'm gonna check. He's on Google. I thought I was gonna catch you on Twitter or TikTok. It's certainly not impossible. Let me know when you're done googling, and I will... If you're googling

a f***ing dad, you'll be by the way, I'm gonna b***h. No, I'm trying, I was thinking I could do that wired interview thing where I ask you questions from Google if you type in John Green. Oh, I hate that. And it says like, John Green is John Green, a Christian is John Green dead is John Green gay. I know all the questions. Related to Hank Green is number two.

Well, what's number one? Christian. Yes. Married religious. Yes, yes. From Crash Course, the author. Yes. Alive. Yes. Still alive. Yes. A Democrat. Yes. The Crash Course guy. Yes. I mean, they only ask things they already sort of know that they're trying to confirm. Writing a new book. Writing a new book? Yes. Yes. I mean hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What we're gonna do is Hank's gonna put away his laptop. Okay. He's got oh god It feels so good to be in the room with Hank when he's not looking at a screen. I just did I wanted to know things about you

Which of those things were you surprised to learn? Out of Crascourt's guy you didn't know as the crash It's like I wrote the fault nerd Nerd Stars and the Crascorsky are the same John Greens. Same guy. Wild. It's also weird for me. You know?

I love what you work and I'm like, I have no idea what that means. I don't even, I have no idea what I'm doing on this planet. I think that might be. That's pretty typical. I know, I think that might be the key to our success so far, is that we're the only advice podcasters who know nothing about being alive. Other advice podcasters, they think they know something.

They're experts. But they're wrong. Well, they may be wrong or right. I don't know because I don't know anything about being alive. Being in the room with you is giving me a lot of respect for Tuna who has to make us sound the same level of loud, where while I scream the whole time. Yeah, I just talk to a normal human voice. I need to bring it down, especially in this circumstance, where he can't adjust that.

We're doing fine. Well, I've been pretty loud. I'm going to try and be a normal man now. You still sound a little performative. Yeah, I can always podcast. Right. That's true. We don't want to sound totally like ourselves. People will get bored. What we're gonna do today is we're not gonna answer any listener questions. We're gonna try something else. We're gonna try to have a conversation. I'm nervous.

Like we would usually have. Sometimes. And we'll start with a prompt. John is in charge because I was gonna do the thing where I asked you Google Questions, but you made me put my computer away and I'm lost without a connection to the internet. No, you're not.

We've had a bunch of conversations over the last week where you didn't have a screen. They did last an hour. They totally did. Wow. And they were great. They're so much better than screen conversations. Like the conversation you have with somebody when you're both kind of on TikTok. It's just not a very good high quality.

No, definitely not. And so I'm asking you to have a high quality conversation with me about a deep prompt. Not like a small talkie is John Green, an author, but a deep prompt. And you have one in mind. I do. Okay. Are you ready? Uh-huh. Taki is John Green an author, but a deep prompt. And you have one in mind. I do. Okay. Are you ready? Do you think that a hot dog is...

He's starting to smile, you guys. Is it, is it, is it sandwich? You didn't have one in mind. Do you think a hot dog is a sandwich? He didn't have one in mind. Do you think that a hot dog is a taco? You know, John, I hate those questions. In my phone, I have a list of ideas for videos.

Do you wanna do one of those? Yeah, let's do one of those. Okay. I just wanna have a normal conversation. That's okay, that's my goal. I think people, you know what I wanna talk about first? Yeah, I wanna talk about why you don't want to own a percent of ASC Wimbledon. Well, I've told you this because I will be more sad when they lose. And I'm already quite sad

when they lose. Yeah. I don't like that I'm sad when a thing that I can't control happens, especially when it happens quite a lot. Did you know that when I was in high school, I stole a lemur from a zoo. Oh my god. I know the bid. So people ask me about the bid every day. I'm interested in talking about the time that I stole a lemur from a zoo when I was in high school. Yeah. So can we talk about how it happened? Yeah. Okay. Let's see. We want to start there. One fine morning in summer, someone posted a TikTok that said, we should start a rumor that Hank Green stole a lemur from a zoo when he was in high school.

Yeah. And lots of people watched the TikTok and they thought, this high school. Yeah. And lots of people watched the TikTok and they thought, this is funny. Yeah. But the problem with these jokes is that there is no way out of them when you are the butt of the joke. There is no way to survive a joke.

You got it. But before we move up to there, we have to tell the whole story of what happened. Okay. So then, you made the video, or is like, Hank Green, we should make a rumor about Hank Green stealing the lemur. Yeah, it's just a harmless rumor.

Like, right, like the rumors that could have been started. Yes, the rumors that could have been started about you, it's pretty harmless. Also, I have to say having known you in high school, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Yeah, I would have, I think you might have called it liberating a lemur rather than stealing a lemur. Something like that. Yeah, but I could see you trying to free a lemur

from its Floridian prison. Maybe, not really. I can't actually. No, it's all the thought I can see. People's thinking what they know of me, thinking that that is the thing that could happen. It, yes. On the edge of the container Hank Green seems to like attention.

Right. He seems to be interface with the world of science communication. The crap brothers had a lemur. Right. So maybe they knew each other. In 1990. Maybe Hank Green stole the crap brothers. Yeah, it was a boom of a boom.

I may be I stole Zabu. I'm sorry, I forgot the name of the lemur. So I didn't steal Zabu, but then, so after he did that, he made another video where he created, and this is the reason I actually became a rumor. He created a fake Orlando Sentinel news article that had a picture of me from high school. And then it had a story about high school boy's

skills lemur. And I looked at that and I was like, well, I didn't, I know that I didn't steal a lemur in high school boys' skills lemur. Right. And like I looked at that and I was like, well I didn't, I didn't, I know that I didn't steal a lemur in high school, but like I could get how you would see that picture. The first time I saw that TikTok, yeah, I, my initial response, and I think this says a lot about like the state

of misinformation, in fact, checking and everything. My initial response was, oh my God. I, I feel like I know every time the Orlando Sentinel mentioned Hank, and I also feel like this wouldn't have gone unnoticed in our family. Yeah, it would be a thing that we still talk about. Yeah. But it was compelling enough that even as your brother, I was like, for a nanosecond, I had to do some lateral reading.

So I went over to, like, did you lateral read? I lateral, I always had to read. I didn't need the lateral reading. Of course, it was my actual life. Exactly. So I went over to Google and I was like, did Hank Green steal a lemur? And I searched, I actually searched the O'Landosetinal's archives for Hank Green lem a lemur? Yeah. And I searched, I actually searched the Orlando Sentinels archives. Wow.

For Hank Green lemur, and nothing came up, and I was like, I think it's fake, and that also makes sense. While I wasn't boarding school, I feel like the news might have trickled in. Yeah. Yeah. The way out. Yeah.

So it makes a little bit of sense that you wouldn't know because we didn't live together. Right. So then that post went much more viral than the original post where he said, let's make a rumor about. Of course. And if you went to his profile and swiped one video, you'd see the video where he admits that it's not real.

No, you didn't have to do that much lateral reading, but you had to do a little bit. Yeah. But so like there was a combination of TikTok's algorithm doing its thing and people being on board with the joke, sharing the information. Yeah.

But it did end up with people legitimately thinking, and maybe even some people now legitimately believing that I stole the lemur. Right. And I think that that's very interesting. And I think that it's, I mean, I'm grateful that it's stealing a lemur, which is something that I wouldn't be super ashamed of having done when I was 18. Right. Like, it's certainly not something that I would be like, all of having done what I was 18. Right. Like, it's certainly not something that I would be like,

all of 18-year-olds should steal lemurs. Right. But there is this phenomenon where... But there's no way out. There's no way out. Like, where some moderately famous or very famous person gets attached to a copypasta or gets attached to a rumor or gets or actually does something that they shouldn't have done.

It becomes this sort of like defining feature of their life even though, you know, like we should see it in a broader context. But the lemur thing especially is interesting to me because there is something about it that captures the core of misinformation on the internet, which is that it has to be sticky. It has to be on the edge of believability. It has to be a little ludicrous. And it has to be vaguely conspiratorial. It has to be this has to be written for me all this time. Yeah, of course. It has to be spicy like I just deleted a tiktok which by the way I really recommend but one of the most liked comments on the tiktok the tiktok was abandoned this Thing that happened in Athens 2400 years ago, but don't worry

That doesn't stop people from applying it to today and the most like one of the most liked comments on this video was, how can you say that anything has changed in terms of the militarization of nation states and empires when the United States spends the same percentage of its GDP. It was a condensed version of this. It spends the same percentage of its GDP on the military as France did in the 18th century. And I was like, that is shocking. Like that is astonishing to me. That was a big problem. That's all they did. That's the entire thing that the government spent money on. And I was like, wow, that's really surprising to me because like an

American-to-list era, which Europe was in at that time, it was thought that the only way you could get richer was basically by plunder. And the only way for your state to become wealthy was to impoverish other states. And so I was like, wow, that's really shocking to me. And I am their right that my premise is totally wrong. If they're right. Yeah, which I assume they were because of the level of confidence. You know? And the fact that it was stated as such a fact. So I looked it up and actually the US spends 3% of its GDP on the military.

And 18th century France spent about 55% of its GDP on the military. So it's wrong. The reason it's surprised me so much. 55% does seem like a problem. That seems like too much. It was too much. By the way, 3.3% is also too much. But 55% was definitely too much.

It'd be tricky to spend 55% of our GDP in the military. Well, you gotta remember that healthcare spending was very low. Yeah, so was all of the other every salesman. So it was a public education spending was extremely low. Food, yeah, not a lot of that.

Going on just very little food in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That period. Yeah, that's a great point. It was a good point. It was a good point. It was a good point. It costed 55% military, 45% but really bad bread. Yeah, bread with wood in it.

There was so much, there was so much sawdust in 18th century European bread. This world that should have been stupidly rich from all of the places it had plundered, still had this like massive shocking levels of wealth inequality. Yeah, not shocking, actually. I don't think that that's anywhere.

They didn't do it to make the peasants lives better. Right. But the point is that you stealing a lemur in France in the 18th century, spending 3% of its GDP on the military, have something in common, which is that they are very compelling fictions. They would sort of vaguely affirm and at the same time problematize something that I believe in an extremely simple way. But also a surprising way. That's like, it's surprising enough, in character enough, affirms something else in the character.

Yeah. Yeah. There is just, I mean, misinformation researchers talk a ton about the tropes that we have set up in our minds and how different things can be both shocking but also unsurprising, which is a sort of a wild thing, but that's how all of these things work so well is when they really truly shock you, but then also somehow you're not surprised at all. And the really unfortunate thing, right, is that deep down we all look for that stuff. Right.

Like when I'm on Twitter, I want that moment where I'm like, oh my God, that's amazing, incredible, horrifying, terrible, outrageous, stunning, but also confirms my priors. Exactly. But also allows me to say, I've been trying to tell you. Right. Yeah. And then when it turns out to not be true, you're like, well, but it might as well be.

Right. That's, and I've said, had people say that to me while sitting in the room with me. I've thought it. And so I absolutely understand people responding that way. When it turns out that, you know, this nefarious conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but they would have, if they could, or it would have been in character, or he might as well have done that. Yeah. Or this other thing that did happen is quite similar. Right. Yes. To me, Hank

Green, it's not exactly the same. That's right, right. But it's quite similar. That's true. It's not as bad, but it's very similar. Yeah, like Hank Green maybe didn't steal a lemur in high school, but he was pretty golf. I mean, only when romance necessitated such. The thing is, I was actually much more golf than Hank in high school.

It's just that there's no pictures of it on the internet because I'm, well, I don't think that you like indulge in the aesthetic as much as I did. I wore a ton of eye makeup but I didn't take a ton of pictures of myself and I makeup. I wore a lot of eye makeup on my lips because that was the only option to get the black lip stick. I don't like to put eyeliner on my lips. I wore black lipstick sometimes but it's given to me by Barbara.

Yeah. You probably didn't go to school with Barbara because yeah. No, it doesn't sound familiar. Yeah, it sounds like an adult. No, no, she was a kid. She was a kid. She was cool. I mean, yeah, real Goth.

They were all cool. Oh, she was so cool. They were, yeah. Yeah, I really, really wanted to date her. Honestly, my Goth phase is less embarrassing than my rush phase, which was also because of the girl. She, I found out she was into rush, and I learned so many rush songs by heart,

and that's forever. I did that to myself for rep. Like God is just a picture on the internet. Roll the bones. I'm in my head now. I could do the bad rap for you. There's so many. I won't.

I don't even know, is Russia banned? Yes. Great, I don't know anything about they were great But they made some mistakes sure like the rest of us. Yeah I I think this is a productive line of conversation to transition away from Misinformation on the internet which we're opposed to and have absolutely no tools to solve except on an individual level Like I do not have a social tools to solve, except on an individual level. Like I do not have a social solution. The individual solution is lateral reading and quickly confirming that hand grain did not steal a lemur and responding to like the growth of the rumor by saying, um, I'm not sure that this is the most productive use of

our shared consciousness. Yeah, I mean, at the same time, like, there's so much more to be more worried about that I almost encourage people to not care that much about trying to confirm something until it's really in you and making you feel a lot of feelings that might, like that's, and- If it's starting to change. I'm so good at fact checking things

that definitely seem wrong to me. Right. I'm great at that. But I'm bad at fact checking things that definitely seem wrong to me. Right. I'm great at that. Right. But I'm bad at fact checking stuff that seems right to me. Everyone is. Right? Because I'm blind on myself in order to make it relatable.

I think I'll do that thing. Yeah. Why would you stop to fact check something that totally makes sense to you? Yeah. The moment you fact check is the moment you're like, I can't that's not the same right? Yeah. But the things, that means that all the things that do seem right that are incorrect flow through you as facts. Yes. Yeah. And I have even fact checked some of those things, like,

out loud and gotten a lot of criticism for it. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, well, we want to think that, I think the true thing here, right? I recently saw a tweet that said that Bitcoin consumed or produced more carbon dioxide than all natural gas electricity generation. And I was like, well, that's definitely wrong. Yeah. Like, I'm not a Bitcoin fan, but I do know enough about how like carbon is produced. And also how Bitcoin produces carbon, which is by consuming electricity, to know that that doesn't make any sense.

And indeed, it was not a true fact, but it had gotten a lot of, and so in my response where I fact check it, I had to be so overtly anti-crypto, to be like, I also just saw everybody know as I hate crypto, but if you get in the conversation, you see the bitcoins worse for the environment than all natural gas production combined. You're going to look like a dope. Yeah. No one's ever going to take you seriously. Right. Yeah. That's not going to be good for us.

Yeah. I don't agree with Henry Kissinger. And also, we spend less of our GDP on the military than 18 century century France did. I'm not in favor of our current military spending, but... Don't put me in a situation where I've got to be on Henry Kissinger's side. I don't want to be there. That's not fun for me.

But it is... I don't know a societal way to handle it, but I only know individual ways to handle it and and I don't even know great individual ways to handle it It's hard for me to do and it's like a Muscle I try to flex all the time. Wets transition. Okay to our most embarrassing high school phases Um, because it couldn't have been rush No, no, I think that my most embarrassing high school moment was when I ran out of gas in the Volvo. Yes.

And I had all the makeup on. Yeah. And mom had to come get us. Yeah. And she was mad. And then she saw me, despite the fact that I tried to like, eat all of the lipstick off my lips. Oh, yeah.

And. Well, that's why it's not embarrassing though. You're just wearing makeup. You're not wearing makeup. Well, it was very embarrassing. I'm sure it maybe it was at the time, but like current you shouldn't be embarrassed to. No, you're right.

We're not, and I've heard of your other times that were way more embarrassing because I was a grown up. Oh, I ran that gas maybe three or four years ago. And I called Sarah from the side of the road and I was like, something's wrong with the car. Right. And Sarah was like, what do you mean? And I was like something's wrong with the car Right And Sarah was like, what do you mean?

And I was like, well for a while, I was like, I think it won't go for a while. It was kind of like just making a weird noise and kind of, like, it was like sort of intermently, sort of intermently. That's what it feels like. And then it just stopped working completely. So I guess I got a call trip away and she was like, is there gas in the car? And I was like, how do I know? What's it? It's off, it's off.

Maybe there was, maybe there was. We'll never know now. Yeah, I read out a gas in the tour van while we were on tour with the perfect strangers. Like at an interchange. Yeah, yeah, that's brutal. There wasn't a shoulder. It's brutal.

It stops in a... Blame. No cursing, no cursing. It was so bad. That was way more embarrassing. To me today, that's what I was talking about. I'm not talking about what you found mortifying in high school.

I'm talking about when you look back at high school and college you, what is mortifying now? I think that I, I bet your answer is that I have no mortifications. No. Because I'm, I'm very pleased with myself. I've done great the whole time. Well, I'm quite forgiving to that person. Yeah, I think that's good. Didn't have a ton of experience. Right. But yeah, I think that I thought a lot of really simple things about what I should do with my life, that me now is like, yeah.

I had a lot of very straightforward, easy solutions for very complex problems. And you were big on that. I wrote the speeches I would give when I was president. Oh wow, that's, I mean that's about as cringe as we're gonna get here today. That's not as bad as the thing that we can't talk about, but it's close to as bad as the thing we can't talk about.

You brought up embarrassing high school and college stuff and yet I can't talk about the most embarrassing thing because you won't let me. It must stay secret forever. There are some things, you know what, there's like two levels to it too. Yes, yes. Yes, where we don't have to get into it

and then there's more other levels. The more we get into it, the more it seems like we're teasing something that we will reveal in the future. And I want to be absolutely clear about something. We will not reveal this in the future. And I mean we, because it also reflects poorly on me. And I know that you don't worry about like... Not like nonsense. I know it does in the sense that now I'm your closest collaborator professionally.

Oh, OK, I see. And I don't want to be in a situation where somebody asks me the equivalent of Did Hinkri never steal a lever in high school except it's true and I have to talk about it. I don't want to do that. I don't want to be in that. I just don't want to go there. My cringiest, I mean I did definitely have that. I thought we should go back to being hunter-gatherers, right? Like I read a lot of like Kurt Vonnegut, and I was like, foraging was the right path for humans and agriculture

was a massive mistake, and we should go back. And now these days, I'm aware of the fact that that's a pretty bold statement for me to make as somebody who would have definitely died before the age of five. So who am I to say that I would have enjoyed that life better when I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all? Yeah. Well, alternatively watching all of your children die, the majority of your children die before they hit five.

Yeah, those are the two choices. Either you don't make it. Right. To having children, or you watch the majority of your children die. Yes, but in the case of my particular incredibly strong genetics, right, you don't think you're probably going to make it. No, I mean, my, all right, frankly, our whole bloodline would never have made it anywhere near me.

Yeah, they're not being able to see as a problem. Well, there's a lot of other stuff as well. But the thing that I find cringiest when I look back, I guess like more like late high school early college is like the way I hated stuff. Yeah. More than the way I liked stuff. Like I don't look back and say like, oh my god, I loved rush so much It was embarrassing. Right. I look back and I say, oh my God, I hated something That was fine Or or or that was like not fine, but not right. I didn't need to define myself in opposition to it

I didn't need to be like, you know what sucks sweet valley sweet, vanily high. Right. Yeah, there was, there was a, and I've, I continue to hear this, but there is a, the thing that people said when I was in high school, it was like, what kind of music do you like? Yeah. People would say, everything but rap in country. Right. Which to me is the worst.

It's a bad answer. That's a bad answer. Like, that says way more about you than you think it answer. Like that says way more about you than you think. It does. And it says way more about you than it says about ramp or country, which are both extremely diverse musical genres. Like you can't hate to me, saying you don't like rap, and I know that I'm a little biased on this topic. By the way, you know how this is coming back around, but I just want to tell you this brief anecdote. So I, I like 10 years ago, had a YouTube account, where I had all my music,

because I, and the last user of YouTube music, it comes free with YouTube premium, it's Spotify, but not as, not quite as good, but it is free. Not quite as good. Well, I don't know how good Spotify is because I've never had it. Yeah. Okay. And I will thank you not to judge me. I'm not listening to music on compact disc. I'm just using YouTube music. So I had this YouTube music account and at some point somehow the accounts merged with Crash Course. Yeah. So now all my music is in unlisted playlists at youtube.com slash Crash Course. Yeah. And a couple of weeks ago, somebody, it's like weird music. John likes weird music.

I like really good music, but it's definitely not the music you would think that I would like. Like based on... Let's say this, if all of my playlists leaked, there would be a level of like, I can't believe Hank Green stole a lever from a zoo. Right? Like I listen to music that's different from the music that like... Yeah, I actually saw that because it turned out my Spotify playlist were public. Right. And there was a little moment of people being like, why does Hank Green have this on his playlist? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, that's that's super private for me. I know people like there's Spotify influencers or whatever, but for me it's very private. Anyway, I somehow made one of them public. Oh no, the Crash Course jam. And so many, so many like on the Crash Course subreddit was like, hey, has anybody else noticed?

No, it's not. So anybody else noticed that like Crash Course listens to like a pretty shocking amount of like black thought and snow the product and like Polish hip-hop music from the 1990s and this is this is pretty weird stuff like are they are they doing a Crash Course on like the European hip-hop the global hip hop scene in 1997. What's going on here? So, yeah, but anyway, it's true for music, but for me it was mostly true for books, right?

Because when I was a teenager, I defined myself so much as like a literary person, even though I failed English. So, like, I wasn't like, but that was also part of my identity, which I look back and find extremely cringey, that I define myself as like somebody who didn't live up to their potential as the smartest D student you're ever going to meet kind of thing. And that this was like, that's what made me cool in my mind, but of course, it didn't. And it was destructive, and it could have been catastrophic if I hadn't had incredibly supportive teachers. But like the books that I hated were many of them were pretty good, actually. Like Gatsby, I hated Gatsby.

I wrote this paper in high school that was all about how Gatsby is irrelevant because it's about the problems of rich people, which is just fundamentally so deeply, profoundly, intensely wrong. You know, it's like, it's like when you go into a book and you've sort of already decided. Well, that's what I, I don't think that. Well, you go into music and you've sort of already decided. Yeah Well, and that's that that's what I I You go into music and you've sort of already I didn't have that as much with media But I did have it with people School had so many different like kinds of people and like the like I Resented the popular kids so much. Yes. Yes, that I hated them And oh, yeah until I got to boarding school like I thought jocks

Like by which I mean people who played sports for their high school team. Yeah, we're fundamentally different Period times of people like yeah, like they were people Why would I ever speak to them? Yeah, and why indeed would they ever speak to me? And they also seem to feel the same way And why would they ever speak to me? And they also seem to feel the same way. Right. It was sort of universal agreement. And maybe that's because when you're at a big public school,

there's like too many people. And so you've got to- You can't even have an interaction. You can't even have like status hierarchy between them. It's just like different. Yeah, maybe you just have to say like, I don't know anything about you. Yeah.

And I can't bother to learn. Right. And so I choose to have this stereotype of you as a jock. Yeah. And it's helpful to me because then I don't have to engage with you on a human level. But then when I went to boarding school, and all the, like, you know, there's 52 kids in my class,

so like most of them were athletes of some kind. Right. I myself was on the ultimate Frisbee team. And so then I was like, oh, it turns out that people are people and sometimes they're cool and sometimes they're less cool and sometimes they throw balls good. And throwing a ball really, really well

doesn't much impact your quality of personhood either way. It's not really a big plus word, a big minus. Yeah, it might mean some things. Yeah, you like maybe work hard. Like you have a work ethic. You wake up early. Right? You're earlier riser than me.

That's my main conclusion about. We might not see each other as much because you have to go to bed before two. I remember in college, Kenyon College had one of the best division three swimming teams in the country. It was the only sport that we were good at and we won like 25 consecutive division three national titles or whatever. And I remember like the fundamental difference between me and the swimmers was not intellectual or emotional or anything like that. It was that since they were five

years old, they'd look at up at 5.30 in the morning and chosen to get into a pool, which meant that they had like a level of like discipline and work ethic that was not even imaginable today. I can't even wake up at 5.30 once. You let alone me every morning. The only thing that has ever gotten me up at 5.30 is two. Yeah. Flights? Yeah. And to chat. Yeah, I guess for me there is a third, but it's true raw panic. Right?

Like, yeah. Okay. Which is what flights and children inspire so often? If I wake up and I'm really, like if I go to bed really, really anxious sometimes I'm wake up at 5.30 in the morning. Yes. At this point. Yes. But man, in college, I was not going to get up at 5.30.

It was a struggle to get to a 9 o'clock class. I would love to get to the point in my life where I feel like I can sleep in again. Yeah. That's not really a child thing for me right now. Though that's part of it. Yeah. But even when I'm like traveling to work thing, life thing, I just like, I'm too anxious to sleep

in, which is not my vibe. No, apparently it is. It is how it is the life I'm living. Well, we all contain multitudes and just as your vibe, your like public persona is as a sane person, which is very rare. And so it's extremely counter-cultural. You also, you know, you have anxiety and like get overwhelmed and like life can be extremely stressful even if you don't have an anxiety disorder that can induce tremendous amounts of anxiety. And similarly, I like really good music and people would think that I probably only like the mountain goats, although I do love the mountain goats. And have a shirt that says that. And only listen to like, I don't know, like iron and wine or whatever, but I don't know what that is, but that's fine. But I like all kinds of good music.

Yeah, yeah. And you accidentally leaked it, which is adorable. It's riding through this podcast brought to you by the accidental lead crash course playlist, the biggest scandal of 2022. It's got some big contenders, but it definitely wins out. Today's podcast also, of course, brought to you by the lemur from the crap brothers. You said boom of food. Is it boom of food? The crap brothers lemur. Hope those guys are doing all right.

They just followed me on TikTok. Wow. I feel like they look and have vibes similar to us. I would love to hang out with the crap brothers. I'd be fanciended to know where they're going. If you are a crap brother. But hit me up on TikTok. And this podcast is also brought to you by

the big, old rush hit, Roll the Bones. Are they like a rock band? That's one genre. That's actually, I like bones. I think like a rock band. That's one genre. That takes some, I like all kinds of music except for rock. C'mon. C'mon. Carp that out. Everything, everything from the beach boys to bowweeds.

That's right. No, Dylan, no, not interested. Coldplay. Also, is rock still happening? I kind of seems like it. I think the weekend kind of makes rock music. It's got a snare drum, it's rock. I like the weekend a lot.

Do you listen to the weekend at all? No, okay. It seemed from the way you answered it that you're not sure who the weekend is. I can picture him, walking through a maze of the Super Bowl. That was the first time you'd sure who the weekend is. I can picture him, walking through a maze of the Super Bowl. That's... That was the first time you'd ever seen the weekend

or heard any of the songs. I know of the music. I listen to music weirdly, yeah, which is that I love a song. Right. And then I love another song. Right. And that will happen.

I will love over the course of a year, maybe six songs. Really? Oh, wow. And I will love them the course of a year, maybe six songs. Really? Oh wow. And I will love them very much and very deeply. Yeah, yeah. So that's why you were able to play as it was so well at our show without much practice. What about the theory, yeah? That's a good song. It's got an incredible hook. It's so simple, but the...

But it's still not? Yeah, the production makes it not simple and I'm really interested in that. Yeah, it's a cool song. Also today's podcast is brought to you by John's paper about the Great Gatsby. John's paper about the Great Gatsby, high quality literary analysis. Still a shame. We also have a project for awesome message. This is from Alex to the 2011 2015 Grand Valley State University Nerdfighters.

Wow. A while ago, greetings former GVS, you nerdfighters, while it's been many years since we had a meeting. I still miss you all. You all helped create an open and accepting environment at our club that made every good, weak, better, and every bad week more bearable. Your support and kindness made me more confident

and helped shape the kind of person I am now. Thank you for everything. You are former president, Alex. That's really cool. That is really cool. That is cool. We don't ever, we have absolutely no control over whether there are college clubs.

Yeah. And so, and thus it always kind of surprises me that they exist out there. And it's a lovely thing. Yeah. What college clubs were you part of any? You know Probably I was in a sketch comedy group. Yeah, and we wrote with ransom rigs. Yep now the author of Miss Paragrand's home for peculiar children and also many of my other friends from college and we had a great time Yeah, I watched one of your shows once it was like you somebody filmed it somehow. Yeah, yeah, and I had a lot of some jokes that I There were a little off-color. Well, we we were family-friendly comedy actually we do in curse I really enjoyed being in the sketch comedy group made a lot of friends

I wasn't in a ton of a this good gonna spread to you Hank, I'm not much of a joiner. Yeah, I did college radio. Oh, that's cool. So we had a, Katherine and I actually had a radio show. Oh, was it like an advice show? No, no, no, we just played that song that we liked. Oh, okay. And we played the six songs that you liked at that moment.

It was actually a problem because like week number eight, it was like, so would you like to hear these same 20 songs again? Which I mean, is a lot of how radio works. Yeah. Right. I mean, there's a number of stations in Indianapolis where that is the driving identity of the station is there's 20 songs and we're going to play them in order. Other than that, we played a lot of Tetris.

Yeah. So it might have been an Tetris club if it had existed. Right. We played a lot of Tetris. Yeah. But you know your Smash Brothers? Do you know what your NES Tetris high score is? We played the N64 Golden Silver Block Tetris.

Oh yeah. We could build blocks in the Tetris points. Yeah. So no, but we were quite good at it. Yeah. I was not good at Smash Brothers, but I thought I was because back then, you didn't know how good everybody else was.

Right. You just knew how good your friends were. Right. And you're just mashing buttons most of the time anyway. Yeah. I wasn't in a lot of clubs now, and I wasn't in a lot of clubs then. I did play a lot of this video game

called Ken Griffey Baseball, where over time my friends got and I built the... mostly we didn't actually play the game. We just engaged in trades against the computer's artificial intelligence that over time you could get like a fractional improvement. Yeah, you're like trading paper clips for cars. Yeah, you can't split it into, but I guess the AI that is really dumb. Right, so eventually you have every good baseball player on your baseball team and you can just like win

like 150 to nothing every day. It's amazing like they build the system where you feel validated through your actions. I had the same situation with a game called SimFarm where you had a farm. And then you could sell your crops, but you could also sell futures. And so I'd watch the futures market. And there would always every year be a day, and it was a random day when the price just doubled for no reason. And I get all, and I get all, like, still my strawberries, futures on that day and feel like a genius,

even though it happens every year, once a year. Right. And then I could get so many more sheep or whatever. Yeah. And then I would always think like, wow, we really cracked this game for the first, this exactly how they designed it. Yeah.

And they're like, designed it to bring. You continue to play. So, yeah, let me get this straight. So you played 500,000 hours. You can't give me your base. Who won? Yeah, you tell me. Yeah, it's true. You won 72 consecutive World Series, and I'm proud of you, but we got $59. Yeah, you seem to like it. $59. Yeah. You seem to like it. I also did, we play like Starcraft and Atari and civilization.

You played like hardcore games. Those were like that. Back then, those were the intellectual games of that era. I was playing. I still have to play civilization. It's great. I can't because it's like, you sit me out in front of Civ V.

Yeah. And 18 hours will pass. Really? Like, I do no longer require sleep. I've been playing Fall Guys with Hank and it is really interesting to see Hank go into the mode of I'm playing this video game now, and he will play Fall Guys

until you take the controller away from him. And then I will want it back so bad. Yeah. And you were playing Fall Guys and I was watching you, I was like, I was like, like, very patient sitting on my hands. You did a great job.

I wouldn't have had the idea of known. Oh my God. Yeah. When you were trying to jump through those rings, I was like, I could kill at this. There was one moment where I wanted to grab the controller for you guys, like, I know what to do. I know what to do.

But of course, I didn't, which is why neither of us have ever won Falcats. I got second twice today. I know, it was tough. It was so close. You were so close, it's heartbreaking. But you know what, I was gonna say, there's always tomorrow, but in fact, you're going home. So there isn't tomorrow. But you know what? I was gonna say, there's always tomorrow,

but in fact you're going home, so there isn't tomorrow. But this is gonna blow your mind. Fall guys is available on all devices. You can put it on your iPad. I really can't. Yeah, you can't. Cause I know where that leaves you. Yeah, you gotta do work.

But I might, I might stop writing this book and just think, you have fall guy's streamer. Yeah, and then maybe like when I finish it like when I'm 70, you know, and people will be like, why don't I take you 50 years between books and I'll be like 50 years, that imagines that I'm 20. Why don't I take you 30, 20, 20, 20, I was at 16 years between books and I was like, oh, just this book, it really took it out of me. I had to pour my whole self into it, like Joyce writing Finnegan's Wake and then I'll know the truth,

which is, I just played a lot of football guys. So good of all guys. So good of players in the world. The irony is that if I played Fall Guys for 10,000 hours, I would still be pretty bad because that's just who I am. Yeah, I'm a lot better than the current class of people we're playing against. Yeah. Because the characters were quite new, but I'm sure.

There's a whole lot of guys that we haven't even convinced yet. I fall. And that's where I'm glad where I don't make it fast the first round every single time. And I don't want to know about that level. No. I never want to face with that level. I don't really want to be that good at anything.

I don't want to be with the top at the top at the top. It's too hard. I love being one of the top 10% of people who can play guitar. Because, um, let me correct you. Not if you're 10% of guitar players. No, let me correct you again. Okay. You're the top 10% among all Americans at playing guitar. Yes. You're not the top 10% of people who play guitar. No, yes. Bottom 50%. But of all the Americans, 85% can't play the guitar. Yes.

5% are worse than you. Yes. Exactly. And there's the way. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I don't want to do it. Deletante. Yes.

It's just another word for Renaissance, man. I want to be medium good Deletant. Yes. It's just another word for Renaissance, man. I want to be, I want to be medium good at a lot of things. And also, when I get medium good at something, I tend to get pretty bored with it. And I tend to think like, is there something else that I could get medium good at? Yeah. Because I, once you get to that place,

you realize how hard it will be to be one of the best in the world. Yeah. Being one of the best in the world is way before it gets fun. And I think that you should do something until it's fun. And then you can always have that fun thing there. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're like juggling. I'd love to be able to play harmonica like that. But some people, some people really get a lot of joy and pleasure and meaning from that, from going from being

able to juggle three things to being able to juggle seventeen. You will get it better. You always see the next challenge on the horizon. Yeah, and it's always thrilling. And I think that's great. I am very grateful for people who go deep and I benefit from their expertise every day. It's just really hard for me personally to go deep. Like, I remember that mo, and there's almost

something unpleasant about it to me, because I remember the moment when, you know, all these people were telling me, you know, like you have the best-selling book in the world, and you need to be making movies world and you need to be making movies and you need to be, like, why aren't you writing another novel? And I would be like, I'm not writing another novel because like, this is very stressful. Like, this is not desirable. Like, I'm fascinated by people like Tom Cruise because Tom Cruise became the most famous movie star in the world

and then continued to want that. Which I don't understand. I understand almost every minute. Now don't you know how bad it is. Exactly. It's John Cougar Melanchamp, the great Indianapolis songsmith. I do like rock music. At least that one. I listened to John Cougar-Mellan-Camp's new album, and I was like, this is good. I like, I appreciate this. I'm not gonna put it on my Crash Course playlist, but I like it.

It's good. He's still lives in Indiana. He lives on, you know, like a farm, and seems like has pretty normal life, except that he's John Cougar Malencamp. And he said in an interview, I've been all the way up to the top of the mountain and there ain't nothing up there worth having. And it's kind of how I feel like up there, there's very little oxygen in the air. It's pretty stressful.

And like, yes, you made it to the top of the mountain, but like, I'm not sure there's anything up there worth having. I did a college event in Ohio last week and one of the students asked, what, how do I define success? Which is a great question. Great question. And I said, you know, you never believe it until you get there and I hope you all get there, but when you get there you find out that success doesn't exist and One and a person in the crowd who I think was either faculty or staff like literally like pumped is fist at me Which made me very happy because of course he he maybe has had more life experience than the kids in the audience Yeah, but to him that really rang true and I that that, and I got a little bit of a whoop. But I think I, I think you're right that I would never have felt that, or maybe it would

have been a much harder for me to feel that way. There is something that you're seeing when you're, so like mostly I experienced success, my own success through the eyes of other people. Yeah. Like they, and what that means is this isn't what we think success is. What we're experiencing is like, status, societal status. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that does exist. Very much.

That exists very much. And also like, there's something like making your mom proud. Like, yeah. You know, like, pleasing the people who you want to please, because you want to please them. Yeah, having people you respect, respect you. Right. Yeah. That's all very valuable. And of course, like, money is very valuable.

Yes. But the need to, like, hold on to it. There's no thing there. There's no thing you can put on the shelf. It's that great Emily Dickinson poem. And the fact that Emily Dickinson wrote this without ever having a modicum of success in her own life is like speaks I think to her extraordinary ability to understand the human condition from a variety of perspectives. Success is counted sweetest by those who

narrow succeed. Like it is most valued in the wanting of it. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Like a lot of things. Yeah, what is it? Comparisons the thief of joy? Yeah. That's usually true. That's Emily Dickinson do. It's actually Denali Dickinson said that one.

She's a really good poet. Good old Denali. I got to make sure she actually said that She did There they have behind the curtain john constantly googles the quotes equals I do because I don't want to make sure I'm not trying dead I'm not trying to It's red misinformation to go back to the beginning of the podcast

Yeah, Rebecca Thomas once once wrote Hank green 16 is believed to have hidden the in the zoo since it's closing with the intention of sneaking out the following morning. It's a good, that's a good line. Rebecca Thomas line. That's a really, again, it's a great fake. Yeah, the reason I know is fake, uh, mostly because you remember, stole, remember not stealing a lemur. Yeah, I don't know Why nobody else could figure that out but Let me submit that as good as that Rebecca Thomas Orlando Sentinel article is how good is a deep fake going to be When Hank green in a Hank green tic-toc says I stole a lemur from the zoo when I was 16 and here's the story time. Yeah well I mean we've already been there a bit. Yeah, but we're not like we're gonna go there. Yeah. Thanks for coming to our party. There is a little bit of news from AFC Wimbledon. We

want a football game, which was very exciting. Well, Hank and I were away. How did you? Not today? No, not today. Thanks for asking, Hank. No, today we got pummeled. But we did win. And after we got pummeled today, very generously, the coach of the opposing team said, and I'm quoting him directly here, they're a good young side.

I think they'll be fine. That's our goal. We just want to be fine. This is a fine good young side. We just want to be fine. We just want to be fine. Good. Good enough. We are 17th in the table at the moment, which is not great. We are only four points above the relegation zone, but we did. We did win a football game and we came from behind to win it, which made me really happy. We were down one nail to Cole Chester United, who are very bad this season. And furthermore, the goal that we were down one nail to was scored by former AFC Wilm

Linden player, Quessie Appaya. And then we came back and Josh Davidson, our new 22 year old striker with a ponytail, scored two goals. And we won two one. And that is why we are in 17th and not like 20th. All right. Yeah. Well, good. and we won two one, and that is why we are in 17th and not like 20th. All right. Yeah, well, good.

Just don't get relegated. That's the job for this season in News From Mars. I don't have anything. I think that they also are rooting for A.F. Swimbleden up there. I especially perseverance. Yeah, because that is the fundamental thing that AFC Wimbledon fans must have.

Yeah. We're not that. I was thinking, I tweeted about this, but I've been thinking about how we often fly past the good moments in our lives and often kind of dwell upon the negative ones. That's a survival technique. It makes a lot of sense.

Sure. Evolutionarily, whatever. But like, being a Wimbledon fan has taught me that we're going to win less than we lose. We're going to lose more than we win. And so we had better enjoy the wins because otherwise, every Saturday, I'm gonna feel terrible, except for the Saturdays when I feel nothing.

Okay. And I don't wanna lose that life. I wanna live a life where I feel joy on the rare Saturdays when we win, and on the Saturdays where we lose, I say, well, guess I'll try again next week. Right. And then we feel a little sad.

So, take some time with the good times write them down and put them in a jar. Oh that's a good idea. Put them on your shelf. I like that idea. It's a good one and then open them up when you need them. It's a good thing to have. I've never done that. That's a great idea. I hate to save the actual advice for the variant of the podcast. Yeah. So thank you. I hate to talk around. Thanks for making the podcast. Thanks to everybody for listening and we'll be back next week answering your questions. We just wanted to try something a little different. This podcast may or may not have been edited by Joseph Tumodish. I hope you put in at least a couple bleeps.

And etc. I don't have all my notes together today. Thanks everybody. Thanks!