Dear Hank & John - 353: Good for the Gaggle

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

What would you do with $44 billion? How important are consistent beliefs? Who decides collective nouns? How do I stop swearing but still be cool? Can correlation ever imply causation? Do we know more about ʻOumuamua? Hank and John Green have answers! If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. Or is I prefer to think of it dear John and Hank. It's a podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give YouTube a advice and bring you all the weeks news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John recently a friend whose boyfriend actually is in the world cup of soccer right now. He writes. And he plays goal goalie, goal tending. Matt Turner.

I said, I said, you should marry that guy. He's a real keeper. Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna, I thought it was going to be like a pun on one of the goalkeepers names. Like the Senegalese, the Senegalese goalkeeper's name is Mendy. I feel like you could have worked with that. I don't know. I don't know. I could Senegalese goalkeeper's name is Mendy. I feel like you could have worked with that. I don't know.

I could have worked with Aaron Ramsdale, former AFC Wimbledon goalkeeper. Really? Playing in the World Cup. Not only that, a current AFC Wimbledon player is playing in the World Cup. Chris Gunter. Chris Gunter for Wales. Nice. Who's he

cupping for? He's cupping for England. So moving on though, Hank. You remember when we were kids there was a late night television show called Late Night with Johnny Carson. Yeah, I guess. Sure. You remember like we'd watch it sometimes. Yeah, I guess we'd watch Johnny Carson every once in a while. A very occasionally. It was like black and white television. Yeah, you have to stay up quite late for that. Yeah, sometimes like mom and dad would watch David Letterman or something like that. Sure, for sure.

Yeah. You remember how Johnny Carson had that guy, that second guy named Ed McMahon. Uh-huh. Yeah. And like Johnny Carson would always be. He would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be

, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he

would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he would be, he be, he would be, he would be, he would be, or if he disagreed on something sometimes he'd say, I don't know about that. So, he had sort of like eight or nine stock responses and he made like a 45 year career out of having these eight or nine stock responses. He had a good voice. He had a great voice for hello, kind of thing. Hello, yeah.

I'll say that sort of jam. And John just wants everybody to know that Ed McMahon is gonna be on the podcast today. He died in 2009. Okay, I was going to say, well, I'm not sure that he's with us, but that doesn't necessarily stop you from being on a podcast in an age of AI. But here's the thing. I usually, I feel like we're both trying to be Johnny Carson on this show and it works great. I don't have any criticisms. This particular day, I just want to give you a heads up that I'm going to be a kind of an Ed McMahon figure

if you will. Oh, interesting. Well, I don't know that I love this, but okay, so it's all on my shoulders. I'm the Johnny Carson. I have to draw the work and and you're gonna be like, hey, I don't know about that. Yes, that is correct, sir. Why?

Why am I stuck with such a dubious host? Co-host. You got it. No, why? What's happening? That's right. Yes. host co-host. You got it. Oh, no. Why? What's happening? That's right. Oh my God.

He's broken. He's gone. I'll say. Here we go. Got any questions from our listeners today? Yeah. This first one comes from Michaela, who has dear Hank and John and Leon. But mostly Hank.

This is not mostly for Leon. I don't have his email though. I thought I'd ask you to please pass on this question. What would you do, Leon Mus, with $44 billion? Hank and John, please feel free to share. Question for my friend, Leon Mus. Yeah. Well, it's gonna be hard to Ed McMahon

my way through this question, Hank. I feel a little, I feel a little duped. Yeah, well, it's gonna be hard to Ed McMahon my way through this question Hank. I feel a little I feel a little duped. Yeah, well, it happens. Here's the thing about Leon Mus. Has anyone in in human history been more forward thinking than I was in creating an Elon Musk parody account on Twitter in 2015? I mean, I why didn't I play the lottery that week? Like I saw the, what, what do I know today that I don't know that I know? If you don't know what John's talking about for a while, there are a couple of

weeks ago, everybody was creating Elon Musk parody accounts and getting banned from Twitter for Twitter. A very, but there are still, there are still a ton of Elon Musk parody accounts because they can't ban all of them. And I started, we, so we had to have a joke on this podcast for, for new-ish listeners that it's not a joke, actually. It's a bet that if there are no humans on Mars by January 1, 20, 28, then this podcast, my dream has been hit quite hard by the last by the last four weeks. Your Mars dream has had a terrible month. Um, if there

are no human beings, this was Hank, this is how different the world was in 2016. Hank thought it was totally reasonable 50 50 bet that I don't know about that. There was part of it was that like the podcast been called Dear Hank and John, I'll get a long time out of that. And eventually maybe John will get a chance and maybe not, I don't know. Right, well, we have to keep podcasting

until 2040 for it to even out. Yeah, exactly. For there to be like, I know. Turn the tables. On you, take that. So I think the first thing Leon must would do, obviously, would spend $44 billion on a pro-earth campaign, which,

by the way, I think we need. Not like, there are a lot of conversations about Earth and the killing of Earth and the death of Earth and the life of Earth. Then I feel like don't adequately acknowledge what we mean when we refer to earth. Like, do we mean all life? In which case, we mean mostly bacteria and insects.

Do we mean all mammalian life? Do we mean non-life? In which case, we mean like rocks and running water. Rocks that are kind of just like sticking together with gravity. Kind of hard to ruin that. Yeah, although I wouldn't totally put it past us, but I agree. Anyway, I think Leon Musk would spend a $44 billion on a pro-earth campaign, which would be both. We need to do a better job of making this a good place for humans and other animals. Sure.

And we are, as a species, really interesting, really important, really cool. The universe wants, well, this is controversial, but whatever, it's Leon Musk. The universe wants to know the secrets of itself. The universe wants to be observed, and we are observing it in lovely ways and we should do more of that. And then I think Leon Musk would save the last billion dollars. It's been $43 billion on his pro-earth campaign, which would also hopefully be like an expansion of healthcare access globally. And then with the last billion dollars, and I realize I'm getting mission creepier Hank, but whatever, it's Leon Musk, not me. With the last billion dollars, and I realize I'm getting mission creepier Hank, but whatever, it's Leon must not me. With the last billion dollars, Leon must

would save it. And on January 1st, 2028, he would launch the first manned mission to Mars. I mean, there's issues. One, it wouldn't get there for a while. Two, a billion dollars isn't enough. Three, I think Leon must is way weirder than you think he is. I think Leon Musk would be like, what if I just get like a bunch of Hollywood a-list actors together and we make a movie and it's just for me. And it's called the, and it's called Mars Mission 14 and starring Leon Musk, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Denzel Washington. Yeah. No, no, no women.

It's all, it's all dudes. Dude, yeah, he looks up at dude time and they'd smoke cigars and they do dude stuff. Yeah. And everybody gets paid $100 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody comes back. Yes. Jay Leno is there. president Biden is there.

Sure. Mm-hmm. And McMahon is there, but like dead. Yeah. Just as just like his bow. It's just my ghost. My ghost. Starring JLENO,

Denzel Washington and my ghost is the new hit, Musworld. Yeah. Musworld. Oh, Musworld is a muchust World. Yeah, Must World. Oh, Must World is a much better title. And then, yeah. So, yeah, he could make like the biggest spray paint can ever. Sure.

He could get that paintball. I bet he could get it really into paintball. Yeah, no, no, the paintball in Indiana or wherever. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He could go get that. That's his now. By the world's largest ball of paint for $5 million,

but continue to let Michael Carmichael run it. Yeah, that's a great idea. That's a great use of resources. I just think like all of these things, by the way, can you imagine, I mean, $44,000,000, I know. That's all I want to say about it. $44,000,000,000, billion dollars. That's all I wanna say about it.

44,000, billion. All right. This question comes from Ellie. I like it. It says, hello, it's Ellie. Hi, Ellie. I was just wondering how important do you think it is to have consistent beliefs?

Is the justification that humanity is absurdly complex enough to rule out my inconsistency? By the way, I love your philosophy, thingo in Crash Course. It's really changed my life. Thank you, Hank and John. It does feel a lot like philosophy should be more open with the fact that it's just a bunch of thingos. It's a bunch of thingos. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, if you think about it, everything is a bunch of thingos. Yeah. Yeah. a bunch of little thingas. If it sounds, I don't know if you can hear the background noise

in my office, people at home, but it's so cold that I have to have my heater running right now. Otherwise, we understand. I want you to be comfortable. So John, how important do you think it is to have consistent beliefs? I think it's a worthy goal, but I think first off, your beliefs should change over time

because the evidence available to you changes over time and so your beliefs should change over time. But I also, and also just because like your life changes, your circumstances changes, people you know change. And so I think like we have to make room for that, which sometimes we struggle to do on online. You know, we struggle to let people change, especially to let people change in public. It's hard.

But I think there will always be inconsistencies in almost all lives and value systems. I think there will always be places where we are more alive to certain injustices or certain inequities than others. And I think the main thing that we can do is be conscious of the fact. I just think life is extremely complex. There are tremendous complexities. Once you drill down into the big problems that we face. Like I was at the Partners in Health Board of Trustees meeting in Boston last week, and I was reminded that when you drill all the way down to the work that has been done over the decades to expand access to HIV treatment, expand access to multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis treatment,

there's a lot of complexity. It is not easy or straightforward. It's really hard and complex and difficult and nuanced and involves a ton of listening. And, you know, it really isn't as simple as we make it seem from the outside. And I think every problem is like that. Yeah, well, yes. And I occasionally will run across somebody who has a really well-formed view of the world and their place in it and seems to be very consistent over a long period of time. And I think that like, that requires a certain amount

of sacrifice of nuance, but it's also valuable to them. And I think that it also allows them to do certain jobs well. I am not like that. I like, I want to allow and sort of naturally do allow my perspective to wander and my perspective to wander. And my certainty to wander. And I think that there is nothing that we can actually be certain of. They're very little that we can be certain of.

You can say what a square is and what 2 plus 2 is. But beyond that, there's very little that is for sure, not even knowledge. And I think that we have to allow for that. And I think that it's very normal for us to even, even when our views do change to kind of believe that it didn't or that we always kind of believe the thing that we do, this is a constant weird thing and psychology that when a mind actually changes,

it's most effective at changing when it doesn't even recognize that it happened. And that's wild. Our minds are very complicated, very weird. We do not have as much insight into them as we imagine that we do. And I think that if I look back on the things that I wrote 10 years ago and think, wow, I really had it all together. And I am that person exactly, I don't know, it feels a little bit like a failure to me. I like, I have, I continue to learn. Yeah, and I don't, yeah, I think that a consistency of perspective and consistency of worldview is something that we, it's like a loyalty to

a former self who doesn't exist and I don't want to have. Right. Right. Yeah, but I think you become more loyal to that former self who doesn't exist when that former self is still present tense in public in the form of old Instagram posts or old TikToks or whatever. Well, especially those things are like observed and brought back to you for you to look at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I was unfortunate that I wasn't on the internet really when I was

in high school, at least not in a post-e kind of way. Because like, I mean, like, I don't know. And anybody who still agrees with their 16 year old self when they're 45 about everything, I would love to talk to them. I would be fascinated because I, as not my experience. Like, I feel like I have learned and changed so much. Like, I was just thinking about the fact that eight years ago, which the last time the US was in the World Cup, the Faultner Stars movie had just come out like two weeks earlier.

Wow. And that's been a long eight years. I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot about parenthood. I've learned a lot about adulthood. I've learned a lot about how to conduct myself in public, how to be a member of a community online, like all kinds of different things.

And like, if I hadn't, I agree with you. It's a little bit of an indictment of the last eight years, if I didn't learn anything. If I didn't look back and say, like, oh, I was naive about this and, you know, a little bit underappreciated the significance of that. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely some stuff that's at the root that I think that you can keep consistent. But, sure.

Yeah. But also, like, sometimes not. You're always, like, we're always updating our frameworks and like, we, yeah, our minds are imperfect. There's no doubt about that. Yeah. I love the idea of having a framework that you work with, but that can be updated.

You know, like, I mean, when I look back at who I was in college or in my early 20s, like I thought I was gonna become a minister. And so all of my frame, or most of my moral and ethical framework for thinking about the world was came to me from the gospels in the New Testament. And I still think that's an important framework for me.

You know, I think, but it would not be accurate to say that it's like the primary framework or like the only way I think about those questions. So yeah, it's like Paul Farmer used to say like Paul Farmer used to say like I believe in God, but I also believe in lots of other things. I thought there's a thing that's such a great answer to that question. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as you believe in lots of other things, like that helps inform that value system that you grow and change with. This next question comes from Bill who asks, dear Hank and John, can you tell me who has the authority to assign collective nouns?

My wife told me today that a ballet of swans is a thing, and I was vaguely outraged. Where does this come from? Pumpkins and penguins, Bill, Australia. I think you're right, Bill. I think that there was a sudden time. So you got like a school of fish, and I'm like, okay, fish are like 86% of animals.

So like, yes, they can have a special word, and it can be school. Right. Why not? You can have a flock of birds. And birds are like, again, most, just like a huge number of the things, but once yet, suddenly, every group had a thing that you got like a congress of somethings and a murder of

crows. And there's like, well, what's a group of dodo's called? And I'm like, I don't care. There aren't any. There's one skin in a museum. And it doesn't need a collective noun. Suddenly, everything needed a collective noun, I just don't think it does.

I think that the word group exists, but it became fun there to be one for everything. And then somebody somewhere who had a website thought that they were in charge. I don't think it's, you know what? I bet if you drill down, it's probably more complicated than that. It's like everything else.

Nope. Yeah, nope. It's just the people at mental floss. This me? It was you. Me when I was 24. Yeah. I was like, what the heck are we gonna call baboons?

I definitely, I definitely 100% wrote an article about mental floss that was like, you won't believe these unusual group names for animals. 100%. I don't doubt that for a second. So if anyone's the blame for that, it's me. Yep. This question makes me think of something

that is important, that I feel like I need to reveal to the public, which is that yesterday, I almost, you know how sometimes I get mad at people on Twitter, Hank? I don't know if you know what that means. But yeah, sometimes when at people on Twitter, Hank. I don't know if you know what that means. But yeah, sometimes when I'm on Twitter, I get really like emotionally activated. And I think this is unusual.

I don't think anybody else has this problem. But I just, I get really angry. And somebody says something mean about me and I get really mad. And I almost wrote in response to somebody saying that like what one powerful person thinks if they're really powerful and smart and brilliant is what the public should think. I almost wrote what is good for the goose is notese was called a gander. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha And it means what's good for one thing is good for many of the same things, right? And so I went online. Do you know what that would actually be if you if you if you wanted to say that?

Because it's really wild. The goose is is good for the flock. No, what's good for the goose is good for the gaggle? That's actually so much better. It's great. In fact, you know what? I would like to point a new aphorism. Even though I don't believe it, I do not believe this.

Yeah, but somebody does. What's good for the goose is good for the gaggle. Everybody says it. Everybody knows it's true. Back in high school, I would have thought that was true. I get a lot of people on Twitter who seem to think it's true. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gaggle. If it's good for me, it's good for everyone.

I am the goose, you are the gaggle, and what's good for the goose is good for the gaggle. I'm really into it now. It might be my new favorite sentence. I'm not, I never again will I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I guarantee you that because from now on, I'm only thinking in terms of gagels. So, ayo! Can I, my man? That was good. I liked it a lot.

The Oxford English Dictionary has commented on this, John, who decides what collective nouns are for things. They say, who decides? The short answer is no one. Love it, love it, Just really commit their boys. Yeah. Well, no. I mean, that's probably the truth. They're telling the truth. We all decide together. That's how language works. That's hot. Yeah, I guess it is. And also, there is a graph of the increase in the use of the phrase murder of crows. And it still has nowhere near close to flock of crows in normal use.

Whereas Pride of Lions really took off in the 1940s and has never come down. Interesting. Yeah. Do you know what a group of blowfish is called? A blue. No, John, it's called a hoody. That's not a joke. Next.

That's not a dad joke. That's true. It's a true fact. Well, well, well. Someone decided it and now it's called that. Someone, yeah. Is it called that or is it called that only on websites that reveal what a group of animals is called? Having written for one of those websites,

let me tell you that we don't go out and like pull a thousand adults what they call a group of flowfish. Ah. It is not commonly used in everyday vernacular. Turns out. But can we do it? Can we do it?

Can we do it? Can we do what? Just the dear Angajan audience. Can we make it a hoodie of blowfish? I don't know if we can make it a hoodie of blowfish. I feel like a hoodie of blowfish that's already kind of like happened or not happened. Is there any animal that is in need of a noun? That's the real question. Pelicans.

Like, is there not a group of, what is a group of, do Pelicans gather in groups? Who they flock? Well, I mean, there's a bunch. There's like five. What is a group of penguins called? A group of pelicans. One of the, one of the group of pelicans collective nouns is brief, a brief of pelicans from the pelican brief.

No, because of pelican briefs that's tell. But far better is a squadron. They are absolutely a squadron of pelicans. Yeah, they do give off big squadron vibes. What about penguins? Do they have a red? Oh, I'm sure they do. It's like a huddle of penguins.

That sounds great. Yeah, yeah, you're right. It could be a raft or a huddle or a waddle. A waddle of penguins is cute. John, this next question comes from Adia, who asks, dear Hank and John, how do I stop swearing without seeming like a dweeb? I wanna stop swearing in like a cool

and interesting straight edge way, but sometimes I think that when I replace swearwoods with non-swares, it comes off as stuffy, maybe religious, I live in Utah and doing anything that aligns with dominant religious culture here can be stressful, image wise. For those of us who are not religious, it's a well said. Sure. I would say you've just got to have very unusual swear words. Yeah, you got to come up with something good.

I'm a big fan of, I've been using one lately. Yeah, Bumble snort Bumble start. Oh, just Bumble snort. No, that definitely has big dad vibes. Oh God, I that's the only kind of vibes I can deliver right now. Yeah, real big real big guy. Whenever I got kids old enough that I shouldn't Curson for some vibes whenever I it, my kids do kind of cringe. Yeah, you mention it. I've always not liked a number of things about curse words. I certainly, you've come to the wrong place, Adia, because I curse all the time.

But I, there are some things that I don't like about them. They tend to be, you know, they spawn from shame around taboos, whether that is sex or body stuff or a lot of that. So poop, you know, is like the curse words for poop. It's very much like, you know, because there's like taboo around body stuff. But so I like one of the one of my favorite curses is poop on a stick. Because now it's no longer, you've not, like the curse is no longer that it's the poop that we're ashamed of.

It's that this is now, like everyone agrees that poop on a stick is bad because you've turned it into a weapon and you're going to get it on somebody and nobody wants that. So I will occasionally stub my toe and shout out, poop on a stick, but there, it is very difficult. Like there's a lot of complexity around the social understanding of curse words. And I know this, having grown up in Florida, where cursing, I mean, in my, in the social circles I traveled in,

it was very normal to curse and very unusual to not curse and would have been noticed. And now I make content on the internet where anybody can see it. And I do get a lot of feedback from people that's like, I'd really like you to curse less. And on Vlogbrothers, we don't curse. We don't curse very much on dear Hank and John.

But in a lot of places on my TikTok, on Twitter, I'm just being mean. I'm speaking the way that I speak. And it's very, it's both hard for me to not curse. And also, it's about the sort of image that I am attempting to project. And it's very hard to project the image I want to project without using the language that I know how to use

to do that with. But I do get lots of people who are like, I don't know why you do that. It turns me off your content. It's also true of my books, which is weird to get Amazon reviews that are like, this is such a great book, but there were so many curse words. And I'm like, I just don't see them.

They are invisible to me. It's just like not a part of my system of taboos. Certainly I understand that it's part of many people's system of taboos. And so I do try to avoid it in lots of situations, but man, I tell you what I I don't know how to turn it off so And also you kind of can't get the curse word thing out of a not curse word because that's like they're powerful because that's their power

So you kind of can't do it But I think that you can Just instead of replacing them just not you know, you can can't do it, but I think that you can just, instead of replacing them just not, you know, you can just not do it. And that's probably what I would suggest in the end, that there is a way of using normal language. Well, I don't know. Because oh my god, of course, like that's what I did default to, it's to be like, you stub your toe, you say, oh my god, that hurts. Well, you can just skip it and just say, oh, that hurts.

There's lots of noises that one can make that are not even words. So that might be one of the ways to go. It's noises. Ah! Like that. Oh. Ah!

Ah. Ah! Ah, ah, ah. That is some, ah! Right there. Boodle mama.ahal, yeah. Yeah. Nope, not that one.

I feel like that one is too hard. More like, now, now. That was just like kind of a very satisfied cat. No. Now the cat has a hair bar. Not great. Which reminds me, John, that this podcast is brought to you by a very satisfied cat.

A very satisfied cat. His name is gummy bear and he lives in my house and every one of his needs is taken care of. Aw. Today's podcast is also brought to you by Ed McMahon's ghost. Ed McMahon's ghost haunting America since 2009. Podcast is also brought to you by the gaggle. The gaggle.

What's good for the geese is good for it. It is good for the gaggle. It's what's good for the geese, is good for it. It is good for the gaggle. It's what's good for the goose, it's good for the gaggle. What did I say? What's good for the geese, is good for the gaggle, which is true also true, but a little bit of an easier answer.

I don't think so. Yeah. Okay. And today's podcast is brought to you by watching television while podcasting with your brother. No, dot, dot, dot. I don't know about that. Hahaha.

Do you have another question for me before we get to the important news mark? Well, actually, Hank, yeah, I know we have to answer questions. Yeah. And I do want to answer one more question before we get to the news from Mars and ask you one of them. But I also want to ask you a question. Okay. That is from me. Okay. It goes dear Hank comma.

At what point does a correlation become so strong that it starts to suggest some level of causation? What, like, is there a point? Like, let's say that you, let's say every morning you flip a coin and your days are good when it's head and bad when it's tails. Yeah. Now, this is random, obviously. Let's say that it happens for seven straight years. At some point, that correlation starts to at least maybe be causative in ways that we may not fully understand.

Where is that point? I mean, so like, yeah, there are various statistical methods to figure that out, and it's going to be different in different kinds of sciences. But what's important there is not that correlation never implies causation. It's that correlation does not necessarily imply causation, but it does imply that there's something to look at. And so then you do research around that to figure out what the thing is.

So if John Green never tweets during an AFCU and will then game and they lose every time, and then he doesn't tweet during an AFCM building game and they lose every time. And then he doesn't tweet during an AFCM building game and they win every time. Then you have to, like, is there a point at which you say, let's look and see if maybe there is some connection here. And I would look at that as a scientist and I would say, well, there is no mechanism for that cause. There's no way for that action to have that effect. And so you can't, like you can't, so you can't, there's no experiment to do there. And so, so you would, you would write, there is an experiment to do, but I'm not willing to do it.

Now, there's no experiment to do to drill down into the deeper, into the causality. So there's no way we could do an experiment on, we could do an experiment that would further figure out whether there's correlation. We could continue to define the statistical correlation, but we could not do an experiment that would help us figure out causation because there's no hypothesis for how the mechanism of action would work. Which is a trick sometimes in science, because if you don't know how a correlation could be being caused, but you know that it does exist.

Right. Then that's kind of the end. Like, there isn't that much you can say about it except that the correlation exists until you develop some kind of hypothesis for how the mechanism might actually work Well, let me follow up that question with one more question that answer was very helpful In your experience having been on the podcast with me for a number of years Would you say that whether aFC Wimbledon win or lose a game is about a 50 50 proposition? um

I don't I don't have no no no you would you would say it's probably not about a 50-50 proposition. Um, I don't have it. No, no. No, you would say it's probably not about a 50-50 proposition, right? Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Which you think is more likely, winning or losing? Losing. It's losing. Yeah, right. I think we all know that. Yeah.

At least at the moment. So, right, so we're going to, let's start from there. It's not a 50-50 proposition. But if it were, there would be a one in 512 chance that this could have happened. But it's not a 50 50 proposition. So there's a less than one in 512 chance that this could have happened. All right. What's our last?

That's weird. Well, before we get to our last question, before we get to our last question, this is a project for awesome message from Maeve Lindsay Outlaw to Charles Lindsay Outlaw. Charles, thank you for a wonderful first year of marriage. I so appreciate you as a dog dad, a husband and an nerd fighter. And large thanks to Dear Hengenjohn.

I'm confident that between our mutually compatible television tastes and Catholic engagement encounter advice We will continue to grow and love for many years to come. Ellie Rowan and I love you. Oh That's so sweet. I do love a Catholic engaged encounter. I love it. That's the name of it. It sounds very dramatic There's no weekend of my life. I think about more often than my Catholic engaged encounter. Yeah, it's good. It's probably a good idea. I mean, there was a lot to recommend it. There were some parts where I was like, I'm not totally bought in on this.

The most notable section being the portion of the program that was hosted by the people who were telling us that the rhythm method worked. Wow. Who were pregnant? That's very Catholic. They were pregnant. So we had this whole like one hour. We had this whole one hour section of the Catholic engagement encounter. I've probably told this story before on the pop, but it never gets old to me. We had this whole one hour section of the Catholic engagement encounter. I've probably told this story before on the pub, but it never gets old to me. We had this whole one hour segment where this couple was like, hey, the rhythm method really works. And you don't need to use birth control,

which is against the teachings of the church because the rhythm method is so effective. And at one point Sarah raised her hand and she said, I'm sorry if this is inappropriate, but aren't you pregnant? And it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, pregnant with my sixth child. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Everyone over the mind, entirely, intentional. Yeah, I mean, like, I guess that's how, yeah, if it works, it works. All right, let's move on. This next question comes from Emma who asks, Deer dear Angon, I'm watching slash rewatching, old vlog with his videos, and just watched Hank's episode on Oumuamua. Can you provide an update? Do we know more about it?

Oh. Not the award. Yeah. Emmy. Oh yeah, I guess that is a name. All right. That's, do you, what, are you Ed McBanning me right now? No.

No. Something like something Ed McBanding me right now? No Something something Ed McBand would say the I don't know about that So you don't know what this is I I did Ed McBand you for like four straight minutes without getting caught while you All you were talking What was I talking about? Well, you're talking about correlation and causation because you were into it enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you didn't catch me.

But then when you're reading quite, I got to be careful how I use how I use this. Yeah, well, I definitely super power. I've just discovered it's a little bit like when Spider-Man first gets his powers, it's a little too much almost. So if you remember, John, Oumu was, uh, Ed continues to be this object that visited our solar system from elsewhere, uh, came in, shot out. We could tell from its orbital trajectory that it was not of here. And it was like the first time we ever spotted a thing from somewhere else.

And that's not because it's the first one that's been by. It's because it's our telescopes are getting better. And so we're better at spotting stuff like that. In fact, we have spotted another one since, though it was less weird than Oumuamua, which was it behaved strangely and we are still not to the bottom of it. We probably never will be. One of the frustrating things about it is that we spotted it and, you can only get so many telescopes pointed at it so fast. And it was always quite far away. And then it was going farther and farther away until we couldn't see it anymore.

You can't catch up to it. So we'll never know, probably, exactly what it was. Unless we find some other objects that have very similar characteristics. But the good news is, seems like other stuff's coming into the solar system, fairly regularly, that we can spot. And similar stuff? Not the same, so a Momo seemed to be really long, like almost cigar-shaped, which is very unusual. You wouldn't think that that would happen.

But the idea is, the thought is that these are objects that form in the early stages of solar system formation and then they get kicked out by cold gas giants like Neptune. So there's just like gravitational stuff is happening and then there are these chunks of stuff that get, you know, some of them get tossed into the art cloud, some of them get tossed all the way out of the solar system, some of them crash into the planet, et cetera. And there's probably a lot of stuff like that in the galaxy that's floating around. That just got kicked out of solar systems when they were forming early on.

And the one thing that has been proposed for Oumuwa that we had not, when I made that video, had not proposed is that it's basically like condensed hydrogen gas that would have to be in a really specific circumstance and with a molecular cloud. So this before a solar system starts to form, there's enough density of atoms, but it's still very cold. So they haven't crashed into each other and started like crunch down with gravity so that there's heat. So it's very cold, but there's still enough stuff that it's starting to collect

together. And then you get like this, maybe this like shard of pure solid hydrogen. And that maybe got kicked out on the early stages of a solar system's formation, which maybe explains like it's more of a crystal than it is formed under the pressure of gravity, so it would maybe form in a weird shape. But I don't know. That's get one, like if the first thing of something looks one way, probably it's not a one in a billion chance. It's probably more like a one in a hundred or less. Right.

Because we haven't been looking that long, that widely for things that look like that. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, that's cool. Science is amazing, man. It's really cool. It's really, I think sometimes we need to do a better job of, and I know that this is like a huge part of your professional life,

so I'm preaching to the choir, but when we do a good job of communicating what science helps us understand about the universe and our place in it, I feel like we kind of like make the case for humanity in some ways. We are like, look, we're, we're doing interesting stuff together. Yeah. We are, we're figuring out cool stuff. Yeah. I mean, I think that there are a number of cases we made for humanity, but I think that's definitely one of them Yeah, I'm just trying to think about how to make the case for humanity to humans I feel like weirdly it's pretty easy to make the case for humanity to rocks. I feel like yeah, they're like that's yes Sounds good man I feel like yeah, they're like, that's, yeah, sounds good, man. Yeah, we are the, we are among the most difficult to convince of the, of the objects on earth.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of the mammals are probably like, hey, it seems this a little out of control. Yeah, dogs are like humans are great. You do not have to convince me of that. They seem awesome. Yeah, Canada geese are like, I don't know about humans as individuals, but as a species, they terraformed the whole freaking planet for us. Like, this is great.

Like, you guys, so you guys call these things golf courses, we call them heaven. And, And you just keep making more of them. And as everybody knows what's good for the goose is good for the gag. Oh, John, okay, tell me what's going on in AFC Wimbledon world.

We are, we're indestructible. We are undefeatable as long as I do not tweet while we are playing. We are incredibly, incredibly good. I am so grateful to Phoebe, long time AFC Wemildon fan and listener to this podcast for pointing out to me this correlation as you call it. It does rather seem that when we do so far, when I don't tweet during a game, we just cannot stop winning. We've eaten a trend mirror over the weekend. A couple things very notable about this game against Tran Mir. It's coming off beating top of the table late

and orient 2-0. We won this Tran Mir game 2-0. And Tran Mir are a little above us in the table. And they did get a red card like 20 minutes into the game. And boy, was it a deserved red card. We've got this player. He used to play for Wimbleden and now he's back. His name's Harry Pell, I call him Hell's Pells. And Harry Pell, he knows how to be very difficult and unpleasant to play against. And I love it.

I love that this new Wimbleden is becoming unbearable. It's a beautiful thing to watch. So we scored one goal that was good, but then we soaked up a ton of pressure even when we went down. So we scored one goal. It was from Ethan Chislett, but it was kind of a set up from a Ubisoft. A Ubisoft is just so stinkin' good. Both Ethan Chislett and a Ubisoft are just wonderful players.

And they're both players who were like told by the big football clubs in England that they were too small to play professionally, that they would just never make it in this level. And now they are really, really proving themselves, but there was good goal by Ethan Chislet, then we soaked up a ton of pressure even after they went down to 10 men. And then we gave up a penalty, and I was like, oh, I've seen this script before, up one nil. Even though we have an extra man, we suddenly are like all disorganized in defense.

We give up a penalty. I know how this script ends. We lose two one. I've watched this game a hundred times in the last five years. But then what happened is that Nick Zanav saved a penalty. Wow. And it was a really good save. And so Nick Zan have saved a penalty. Wow. And it was a really good save. Wow. And so Nick Zan have saved a penalty.

And then a Ubisoft scored a world class goal. Some might argue a goal that was too good because after a Ubisoft scored that goal. I felt like a bunch of teams in the Premier League and in the second division of English football, they were like, hey, oh, wow. That was a good goal. This guy scored nine goals in his last eight appearances and he's not a striker, huh.

I feel like that. There's a little bit of that energy going on. There's suddenly there's like, hey, is the Ubisoft gonna be a Wimbledon player in January? Yeah, good. Good to you, good. Because just slow down a little bit. Put some lead weights in your shoes. Yeah, just, yeah, and or or keep playing this way,

but like, let's not talk about it online, you know, that's one between us. No one writes stories about this at the very least. This is a private. This is a private. No scouts allowed in the arena. This is between me, a Ubisoft and every league two defense. He's just incredible. I mean, he's incredible. He's so, so good. He's only 20 years old. He's played for Wimbledon since he was nine. Wow. He is, he's Wimbledon through and through. I love him. You'll remember, Hank,

the very first time he made a professional appearance. he scored a goal against Schruzberry. After the game, the like AFC Wimbledon media guy was doing an interview with him for YouTube. The media person said, you must be very satisfied scoring a goal on your professional debut. 17-year-old Ayuba Saul playing as a substitute in the third tier of English football answered I won't be satisfied until I'm the best player in the world. All right. And I mean, he's whatever he has in his heart, if we could bottle it, we could solve a lot of human problems.

I mean, he's incredible. I'm a little in love. If you haven't noticed, do like it. It's great. I'm happy for you. We are now top of the bottom half of the league two table. Nice. That's right, Hank. 13th place can't be any higher in the bottom half. That's great. I can't wait until your last place in the top half. That's going to be very exciting. Oh, it'll be thrilling.

I got a hockey fight on Twitter last week. I saw. I didn't really completely follow it, but it seemed like a hockey player was naughty and you were like this hockey player who was naughty should be suspended for naughtyness. And then a lot of fans of the team were like, no, naughtyness is an essential part

of the way that he approaches the game. I mean, naughtyness is definitely an essential part. I mean, look, the way that this often works is that when young players come in who are going to be a certain kind of player And they will be and that's gonna be time that's fine if they're that kind of player like they like oh You mean like an enforcer. Yeah, we're just kind of a pest like that's what that's one of the he's more of a pest than an enforcer But anyway

Harry Pell if you will you need you need somebody on your team who's like, I'm sorry, but that's not allowed. Right. Like if you elbow me in the face, I am going to make the biggest possible deal out of it. Yeah. What, what magic could just did this, which I find entirely inexcusable is that after the play, so the play was over, he slipped his stick into the mask of the goal.

Oh, no. And poked him in the eye. No, you can't do that. That's not like they're not playing hockey. You're not making a mistake. You're not like, amped up. You're making a very conscious decision in a moment when cocky isn't even currently happening, which is almost assault.

And I didn't like that. Now a lot of people who are Kachak fans will say he didn't really hit him in the eye. He just was sort of like getting in there to need a limb and quicks reaction was way over the top and he didn't actually get poked. And I'm like, I don't care. You don't put a stick inside of the goalie's mask. This man's eyes are his profession. It's all he has. Yeah. Yeah.

That, I do think that's a very important, well, first off, it's not all he has. Let's not, let's not say that a professional hockey goalkeeper is only his eyes. Is that the reason? Well, two very large eyes and bucks hit those eyes. There's a famous Emerson poem where, or maybe it's a journal entry, I don't know,

but it really is stuck in my mind as being like a naked eyeball walking through the forest, like just observing. And I've always been like, God, that is gross. It's like, God, just so much bark on it. Really do not like that observation. I do not want a naked eyeball. Yeah. It's got to have an eyelid for me.

It's very, very, very, really naked eyeball. Yeah. It's got to have an eyelid for me otherwise. It really freak out. Anyway, I do agree with you though. Like you can't, the thing about sports is, if you are hurting someone, on purpose, you are hurting their ability to play the sport that you both love playing. And that's not okay.

Yeah, and there's a fair bit of that. But I can't do that. And oftentimes what happens is is when players come in young, they kind of have to establish themselves as having that personality and they they mild out after a little while. And I'm just hoping that that happens because he's an amazing player. It's amazing player. Love him. He's under his he's under like what he probably should have been for goal scored this season, but like he's got a huge future ahead of him. And I just want him to be like not in total. Yeah. In Mars news.

Good. What's the Mars news? Perseverance has gone, has traveled an amazing distance. And you can look this up. You can be, you can just type in like, where is Perseverance now? You can see the map of where it has gone. And it's main thing that it wanted to do, well, I mean, it wants to do a lot of things,

but it wanted to, like in terms of roving, it wanted to rove up to this delta that you can see in this image. It's very clearly a delta. And then it's been at this delta sort of moving around, and it's just arrived at a new part of the delta. It's called the Yuri Pass. So it's arrived there, and it's gonna be collecting

a new set of samples. So it had a sort of a little trek that it just took. And now it is there. It's near the base of this river delta and reservoir crater. And it contains a substance called sandstone, which is made from the grains carried there by the water before settling into a stone. And that's super useful in the search for organic materials, maybe even biosignatures, which is why scientists are excited to gather samples from there. So very good, very exciting, great job, and it's gone so far in its, I don't know, to

how long has it been on Mars, a long time now. A long time, a couple of years. A couple of years, yeah. That's exciting. Yeah. Gosh, it's so weird to think about like rivers running on Mars. It is But but but rivers to keep the rivers running on earth. Yeah, we really need to make sure that we do that rivers rivers are huge It's a geological process. It's very it would be very it's very difficult to stop though it had it has stopped on earth before

And times when it got very very cold and we were sort of a full-on Snow place for, and times when it got very, very cold. And we were sort of a full on snow place. But somehow we've got out of there. Such an unstable joint, earth like, I mean, we think our little moment has been reasonably stable compared to others, but it's such an unstable joint. It's, you know, honestly, I'd say it's fairly stable. It's probably like galactically, I'd say we got a pretty, pretty, pretty, obtrically, galactically stable, but like on a, situation, on a human term, stable. Wow.

It's stable on, yeah, I don't know. It just, this is, this current lack of stability is our doing, but it's not something we did on. I feel the fragility, I feel the fragility of earth in a way I didn't as a child. Whether that's real or perceived, I do feel it. Yes, it's certainly something that changes quite a lot, but it hasn't been an iceball for a long, long time, billions of years, and that's great.

Yay! Well, Hank, thank you for potting with me. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure, John. Thank you. Yes. We're going to go record our Patreon- Only podcast this week and stuff right now. So you can get that at patreon.com slash to your hank and john.

If you want to send us questions, that's at hank and john at gmail.com, which is a email address. And we cannot make this podcast without those questions. So thank you everybody for sending stuff in. There's always so many good ones. This podcast is edited by Joseph Tune of Mettish. It's produced by Rosie on a halls row house. Our communications coordinator is Brooke Shotwell.

Our editorial assistant is Deboki Trocker-Varty. The music you're hearing now, and if you think of the podcast, it's by the great gonna roll out. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome. you