Dear Hank & John - 354: Major Major Major Major

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Why aren't people over 18 called majors? How does irratiation work? Why are different spots of skin different? What does it mean for Hank to be on a journey of meaning? How long have artichokes been around? Who's Bernice? Hank and John Green have answers! If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. Or is I prefer to think of it Dear John and Hank? It's a podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give you the advice and bring you all the weeks news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John Thanksgiving was fairly recent. If you thought your turkey was expensive, well just wait till you find out that Elon Musk paid $44 billion for his. I just appreciate the fact.

I tweeted that and then I deleted it 44 seconds later. That is the best feeling. It's the only way to use Twitter in 2022 is to share it with the people with notifications on. Right, exactly. It's only for the thousand people who look down at their phone in that moment. Yeah. Hank, I really appreciate that you've front-loaded some Twitter content because lately I've been concerned that the three or four minutes of the podcast we spend before you mentioned

Twitter are three or four minutes where you're not really engaged because you're waiting for the topic to sure. I can't look at Twitter While we're doing the podcast ever again or at least not right now Well, I may I put an app on my computer that doesn't let me look at you ever and I'm so Proud of you as somebody who made not being on Twitter their entire personality for two and a half years Yeah, I'm really excited for it to be your entire personality for the next two and a half years. And that said, we're talking a big game about how Hank's not on Twitter, yada, yada, yada, yada.

But I can't help but notice that as we're recording this Hank did tweet one hour ago. So was it? I don't remember. It hasn't been that long. Oh, it was like a customer support thing for the awesome socks club. Okay. I think it's great. It was part of my job.

There are still things that I must tweet. Yes. Well, and maybe that's the way that it's going to be moving forward. Maybe someone will tweet on our behalf or like, who knows? The point is that I'm really excited for your personality to become, I'm actually not on Twitter.

Well, I just wanna be, look, I wanna be less on Twitter. I got a lot of, here's what, somebody recently said to me, do you think it's a slam dunk? Because you got a lot of things that you're demands for your time, you gotta run a couple of companies, you gotta sell socks, you gotta, you gotta have a lot of opportunities.

So coffee, we're actually not selling socks right now, but we are selling coffee at awesomecoffeeclub.com. It's so good. It's good coffee. My father-in-law has it, and so it has caffeine in it, so I don't brew it at home. We don't have decaf, yeah, we're working on it,

it's surprisingly complicated to make decaf, but I was over at my in-laws house and he has a subscription. And I just, you know, I just had a half a cup. That was, oh my gosh, it's really good coffee. I know. It tastes so good. It's the best. It makes me very happy.

It's such good coffee. Yeah. I know, it's really special. Hello everybody who kept just hitting the fast forward 30 second button until John and Hank were done talking about Twitter. Today, we'd like to answer some questions from our listeners. There are so many good ones and I've got some amazing answers for you. Let's begin with this question from Chloe who writes,

Dear John and Hank, if people who are under 18 years old are called miners, why aren't people who are over 18 years old called majors? Decentred from Ryan's, Chloe? P.S., don't worry about pronouncing the accent John. Oh, all right. We'll just say Chloe then. It's really good. You got to love somebody who really anticipates the needs. It's really good. You got to love somebody who really anticipates the needs. So John, do you know why people over the age of 18 are not called majors? Because they're called adults.

They are called majors. It would be perfectly accurate to call the majors. Whoa. And in fact, the 18 in America is quote, the age of majority. Oh, yes. That's when you become a major. The majorization of a human is on your 18th birthday. So do you want to go deeper into why or do you just want to guess?

Cause I know why I don't want to go deeper into why, but I do want to just briefly say that this means that there's a character in catch 22, who's of course a major in the army or the Air Force whatever it is in Catch 22, one of the great American World War II novels. And the major's name, his surname is Major, and then his first name is Major because his father who was a major in the Air Force wanted a major major and then he became a major so he's major major major major but it turns out that he's actually major major major major major which is phenomenal because he's over 18. Exactly. That's that's great news. This episode is titled major major

major major major. Almost certainly. It's already happened. We've hit the title. You can turn it off now. So these are the same word with two different definitions. And they have the same root source, which is Latin or whatever, or something. And then they became two different words. And then they ended up with two different definitions. And the reason why is because in ancient times, I'm not going to get super specific because

I forgot all the stuff that I read. Okay. Maybe in ancient Greece or Rome, it would be like you put major on the end if you were the father of the person who had the same name as you put major on the end if you were the father of the person who had the same name as you, who was the minor. So it was like the lesser or the smaller. Like literally like this is, you know, Julius the smaller.

So you'd be like Julius minor would be your name. And that became like the childhood name. And then as you got older and you had a kid and your dad was dead or whatever, you'd be the major and they'd like the childhood name. And then as you got older and you had a kid and your dad was dead or whatever, you'd be the major and they'd be the minor. And that just eventually came to mean adult and child. Oh, so it was almost like you could journey from being a junior to a senior.

Yeah, yeah, cool. Yeah, and we all, like, we have a family member whose name is Lil Mike. Oh, Mike, because he was the little, a littler of the mics, but Lil Mike isn't Lil Mike anymore. Oh, he's like 52 years old. I don't think we call him Lil Mike anymore. Uh, no, but I still think of him.

I kind of think of him as Lil Mike sometimes. Yeah, what I see, what I see him, that's the sort of the first in the Constantine. Yeah. I shouldn't call him that, but still in the... Yeah. Great guy. He is great. I love him, Mike. This next question comes from Caroline, who asks,

this question was inspired by a recent YouTube short of Hank about Marie Curie's notebooks, Dear Hank and John. How do regular items when irradiated become radioactive? Can you wash the radioactivity back out of a previously safe object or is it part of the atoms now? I understand the basics of like atoms decaying and letting off radiation, but something like a piece of clothing isn't made of anything. I'll explain it.

It's not made of anything inherently dangerous, so how can radiation begin emanating from it after it has exposed pumpkins and penguins' Caroline? Okay, so I don't understand. There's a bunch of different things here. Yeah, the first thing I need to know, and I have wanted to know this for a long time, so I'm excited, is what exactly is radioactivity? So radiation is any energy that is emanating from a substance. And that is a problem because we are currently in that sense radioactive.

Like radiation is emanating from us. It's in the infotons and the infrared wavelength. And so in that sense, are we radioactive? No. So there are basically two kinds of radiation. There's the kind that's made of photons, and so it has no mass, but it has energy. And then there's the kind that's made of particles

that do have mass and energy. And photon radiation can be dangerous if it's high energy enough, whereas radiation that is made of particles because it has mass is going, and is going very fast, is more dangerous. So there's two different kinds of things. We use the same word for them, and I don't like that, but there we are. Okay, so I want to repeat back to you what you said to make sure that I understand it. Radiation is just like energy coming out of anything, but the radiation that we worry about has mass. And then somehow it penetrates your skin.

Well, look, both can be bad. One, though, is always bad. And one is oftentimes just like the color green. So you don't have to worry too much about it. Unless it's like up in the X-rays when it starts to become ionizing where I can actually have enough energy to change something chemically. And but these particles of radiation, they're actually like neutrons

or helium nuclei or something like that, which is just, it's another scale of thing. But when something is irradiated, that doesn't mean that it's turned into something radioactive. You can shine ultraviolet light at something, that's going to kill all the bacteria, but it didn't turn that substance radioactive. What is happening with Marie Curie's clothes and notebooks is that there was a bunch of radioactive stuff around and those radioactive atoms are now in those things. They're just like the way that dust gets on stuff.

So there's just atoms of the stuff she was studying that is on those things. So that doesn't mean it's hard to clean off. Yeah, it could be cleaned, but you would destroy it in the process, which you don't want to do, because it's her notebooks and it's a story. Right, right, right.

And also, like whatever you cleaned it off with, would then become radioactive waste it as well, probably a higher volume of it. You'd have to dilute it a lot before it wasn't dangerous. So it's probably better to keep it all in one place anyway. Hmm. Okay, interesting. But there is another thing that can happen

where if you hit something with a high energy neutron, you can actually change it atomically and make the existing thing into a radioactive element. You can add a neutron to it, and that's going to make the nucleus unstable, and that will cause it to decay and then emit some radiation. So that's what we are talking about when we call something radioactive. It's that the nucleus of the atom itself is unstable and will decay and emit radiation

of various kinds, whereas something that emits electromagnetic radiation in the infrared, we don't call that radioactive, even though it's emitting radiation. So those are the three different things. There is like a radiation which can, like, have damaging radiation or not, and does not cause something to become radioactive. There's being contaminated

with radioactive nuclei of various sorts because you're around them and then there's actually creating radioactive nuclei through, you know, the emission of high energy neutrons or something like that. Okay. I'm just going to try to avoid all of it and remain as stable as I can for as long as I can. Well, you can't avoid being hit with radiation because you would otherwise freeze. Okay. Cool. Thanks for that. That's not helpful. Lots of things are true, but not helpful. There's a really weird experiment that you can do because the earth is constantly radiating a little bit of infrared light, and this is happening from your walls.

And so those things are keeping you warmer. If you got side on a clear, cloudless night, and you look up your face, the top of your face will feel colder than the rest of your body, because there's no infrared radiation coming from above. And if you put an umbrella over you, you will feel like it feels like there's cold radiating from space onto you. And if you put an umbrella over you, it will feel like you're stopping the cold from hitting you.

But what is in fact happening is the umbrella will be radiating some because it has warmth, will be radiating some infrared radiation down toward you than it's noticeably warming your face. Wow. So if you're ever suffering from hypothermia and you have no clothes, but you do have an umbrella, you will have a very little amount.

It'll buy you like four seconds. This next question comes from Natalia who writes, do you, John and Hank, why is the skin on our body different, depending on where it is? Like, why is lip skin so different from face skin? That's a great question, Natalia, and I have no idea. Like, why is science day here on Deer Lake, good job. You're making it hard. After this, this is the last science question.

I'm just announcing it right now. We're moving on to hard humanities after this. I'm gonna ask Hank questions about religion. Oh, I'm gonna do great on that. I know I'm gonna say, I don't know. I know nothing, John, please help. No, I'm really grateful to have these science questions because just a little peek behind the curtain.

It's a week two of our three week experiment. And John is mostly the Ed McMahon of this podcast because there are certain events happening inside of his television that demand a percentage of his attention. Well, here's another, here's another one, John. So there's two ways, there's two ways for me to answer this question. There's what physically makes the skin different. And then there's like, why is it different? How does the body construct itself in this way?

The first one is we know the anatomy clearly of palm skin is thicker. It has more fatty and connective tissue. It has that padding, underarm skin has like a certain structure with like a higher density of sweat glands. And then you've got like lip skin, which maybe is full of blood vessels for signaling to other people that like this is lips and you have to like read lips and see you wanna be able to see them more clearly. There's also like maybe a sexual selection thing going on there.

And then there's like skin that grows different lengths and amounts of hair. And we know we like have all this stuff pretty cataloged. We know about it. As for how the body decides to build itself, we have some basic understanding of how that works, but it's quite complex and we are still in the process of figuring that all out.

But basically, lip skin is able to be different from face skin and your butt skin is able to be different from your foot skin because of the same reason that your nose is your nose and your butt skin is able to be different from your foot skin because of the same reason that your nose is your nose and your toenails are your toenails and you don't grow hair inside of your liver. Like your body knows, like has systems for planning the body. Well, I don't like complicated systems. Yeah.

And you can research Hawks' genes, HOX, if you want to learn more about it, but we are on the path to understanding this. And we are certainly, I don't think the majority of the way down the path. I don't like to criticize the body because I think in general, it does a fairly good job. Like, nothing like literally nothing has ever created or sustained consciousness except for biology. So it's a little hard, I think, to be... I can't be too negative about biology. I think you need to remember, like, you know, I mean, biology with essentially a limited number of tools figured out a way to go from really boring bacteria to really interesting

humans. So I don't like to be critical of biology. That said, whatever is going on with lip skin, it is a catastrophe. I could so obviously a disaster. And it's amazing to me that people can be like, oh, we are in our like final completed form. How can that be if I need to apply chapstick

to my lips 700 times a day? Like how can this be like a perfect, glorious clock works if it needs constant moisturization? Yeah, I think it's tricky to build these sort of transition zones from inside to outside. You know what Hank, I don't want you to tell me all the reasons why biology had a hard time making my lip skin not suck. I just want you to say the truth, which is that biology could have

and should have done better. Well, but this is what I was gonna say. It seems like there are lots of animals who don't have this problem. And I think that maybe it was our own doing that we selected this trait of having thin, you know, more colorful lips, either because it was helpful for communication to be able to read lips or because we just thought they looked good. So we selected mates with worse lips. Like functionally worse lips. Oh, so you're saying that that where to blame?

Yeah, you're not blaming. You say biology isn't the problem. Dumb humans thinking that useless things are beautiful as the problem. And yeah, well, and this isn't even a human thing either. And this happens all the time, where you sit like, like sexual selection ends up creating just ridiculously useless, actually detrimental traits. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Like the male peacock being the prime example. I, that's a ridiculous thing. Yeah. They're ridiculous. They're lovely, but ridiculous. I think this is great, and I appreciate it very much. And I also think it's a great transition away from science toward the humanities, because now we're talking about the strange choices humans make and how we find meaning together, which brings me Hank to this question from anonymous, who writes,

Dear John and Hank, in episode 227, John brought up Retten Link's deconstruction episodes about religion, and John mentioned that Hank is on a journey of meaning. Can you expand upon that? Can you, Hank, expand upon that? Can, do you mention that I was in a journey on a journey of meaning?

That sounds like it's for you. No. It sounds like it's for you to figure out. No, I think I more think that it's more for you to acknowledge and explore. I don't know what you meant. You're a journey of meaning. Okay, here's what I meant.

What did you mean? And maybe I can chime in. Because oftentimes I have no idea what people are talking about. Hank, I think. What comes to are talking about. Hank, I think- I think- What comes to philosophy? I think, Hank, you have been on a journey of meaning in the sense that you are interested in

trying to find ways that in the secular world, with secular belief systems and world views, we can still make meaning together, still take advantage of the benefits of ritual together, still find ways to have the kind of connective tissue parts of religious communities. And then I also think that you're a little bit on a journey of meaning in the sense that you're trying to understand whether or not meaning is something that we entirely make up together or whether or not there is some larger thing to be derived, some larger sense of meaning to be derived. Yeah, so from where I sit,

humans weren't created, they happened. And so if something was created, it was created for a purpose. If something happened, it just happened. And so it doesn't have an innate reason to be or reason why it was made. Right. And that is how I feel.

That is what I think about people. This is where evidence has pointed me. Yeah, this is one of the main disagreements between Hank and me and our world views, but it's not super important. Like, I will often say in our conversations, well, we weren't made to or we weren't made for, and Hank will be like, no, we weren't made to or for anything.

Like, that's just the wrong way to think about it, you know, like, and, and I'll be like, well, I think we were made to and or for, but it doesn't really matter if the end of the sentence is the same. Like, the, whether or not there is, you know, the two or the four is not actually that important to us. Right. Or at least not to. I think that we evolved to do many particular things.

Like, you know, our eyebrows exist. It seems people thought for a while it was a sweat thing, but it seems our eyebrows mostly exist to signal how we, to like have facial expressions. So we were made to communicate. We evolved to communicate. That's very clear. Yeah.

You know, our tongues are good at that, our lips are good at that, our brains are good at that. So, but I don't think that just because we evolved to do certain things means that those certain things are inherently good or the things that we should be doing. Right. And so that's, I often see people kind of trying to make that argument that if people evolved to do certain behaviors, then those behaviors are the right behaviors and other behaviors are the wrong behaviors, which I just think is definitely wrong. Yeah.

A misunderstanding of things happening. But I do, so I'm on board now, I understand now, and I am very interested in whether they're, and I think that this is, I think it's probably all constructed, but I think that you can construct it in really sturdy ways. So there are sturdy, stable ways of constructing meaning, and there are really janky, tumble-down ways of constructing meaning. And I'm interested in sturdy ones. And I And I'm interested in, in, in, uh, in weather or not, the sturdy ones have something interesting to say about what it is to be a person and about the value of people specifically, life less specifically, and the universe even less specifically.

Mm-hmm. And I think that there is value in an empty universe, in a universe without life. I think that there is value in that just existing. And I think that there is more value in a universe with life. And I think that there is more value in a universe with people. Whatever form those people take, you know, complex multicellular or, you know, communicating knowledge, storing chemical systems. And I think that there are sturdy ways to build that. And I think the philosophers work and think really a lot about that. But I also sort of like am on my own trying to think through that a lot. And I love doing that.

I think it's interesting. And I also like the places where it tends to lead me feel good and feel right and also make me feel like we're not like a waste of energy and resources and, you know, that the harm that we have done is not met by no good. It is met by an equal or greater amount of good. Right. So I think, I think just to back up a little bit, when you say you think it's probably all constructed, you mean like all meaning, all sense of like meaning separate from, you know, just as you say, like the value that is in the universe

because it is a universe. I think even that, I think even the value that is in the universe is constructed. Like I can imagine a universe without life or people. Right. I think that like I imagine that as more valuable than nothing. Like that seems right to me. Right, but that's a construction that I use.

That's not. It's of course very complicated, but. But that's something that you're constructing. That's not something that's like, quote unquote, really real or exists outside of the construction. That's not like, lots of things that are constructed are real like tables. tables, for example. And all of these words that are coming out of our mouth.

Right. Exactly. So, I think this is where we are both really interested is, yes, it is constructed, but so are tables. And are there tables that can be really, really helpful? And what I feel is that there are a lot of worldviews. There are a lot of ways of making meaning that are like having an umbrella when it is, when it is like drizzling outside. And the meaning is the umbrella and you're like, oh, this meaning is very helpful because it is drizzling and I'm not getting wet and I'm not uncomfortable.

The problem with a lot of those systems of making meaning that are good umbrellas is that when there is a hurricane, the umbrellas completely stop working. And can I, in fact, become counterproductive, right? Like they can like invert themselves. And if you hold on to them too tightly, they can carry you straight away. Right. So these, these things that are, that are helpful worldviews or useful ways of constructing meaning to deal with sort of everyday distractions can really fall apart in the face of the big, hard realities. And you and I are both really interested in how to make meaning, how to make meaning in community that can hold up to that work in hurricanes, that work in the most difficult things,

the most difficult moments that humans go through, that work in the most difficult things, the most difficult moments that humans go through, that work in the edge cases. And also that tell you things that you don't, that don't just tell you the thing that you want, you wanted to believe in the first place. Right, that don't just confirm for you that the way that is most convenient for you to live is the best way to live.

Yeah. But it challenged you in a loving, non-shameful way, right? Like so much, so much of the time when we're challenged by ethical worldviews, it's done as a way of like shaming us or gilting us or making people feel bad about their humanity. How could you create those challenges from a place of love? So that... Yeah. And the fact that Hank approaches those questions from the perspective of, I think humans happened,

and I approach those questions from the perspective of, I'm not quite so sure that humans just happened is super unimportant. Like it's hard, it's hard for me to overstate how little I think about that and how little I care about it. What I care about is like, can we find the stuff? Right, because the reality is that like,

it doesn't provide any special insight into, like if humans were in some way created, we don't know why. Right. Like, we don't get special insight into why. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because of that difference. Mm-hmm.

And I, but I think that a lot of people, like, their religion, provides them with, with things to be a special insight. Oh, that's exactly what I'm saying. Yes. No, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. That is it. That is exactly it. I think that a lot of people, like their religion, provide them with what they see as a special insight. Yes, no, that's exactly it. That is exactly it. That I don't feel like having that knowledge would provide me with special insight.

Whereas I do feel like, for example, like the question of why did the universe come to be, continues to be interesting to me, because I feel like it might provide me with special insight that I wouldn't get, even if you told me, like even if God appeared to me right now in my basement, well, first off, I would be like, you're standing right in front of the world cup, God. So, make a better door than a window.

If you don't mind stepping a little bit to the left I'm trying to watch portable play Uruguay And then after I said that I would be like I don't know that it would provide me with special insight to know that the god I believe in is really real because I'm much more interested in like what god would want for us or of us if God were really real. So like if God told me that, I would be like, oh, that's super helpful. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, I made all of this and here's why. But if God, if God just appeared right now and was like, I am, I would be like, all right,

well, that's, I mean, thank you. Can I get some more? Yeah. How many questions do I get? Yeah, yeah, right. Is this like a, is this like a genie thing where I can make three wishes? Can I ask three questions? Like, what's the deal?

Is this all I get? Is that I am? I am is helpful. It's good, but it's not. I'm not sure that it would give me special knowledge. And I think that's exactly it. That's you. Dan, if an omniscient something like omniscient omni powerful something was like, you can, you can, I can give you three wishes or answer three questions. So three wishes will, will always be your, will, will come true. And the three questions will definitely be true.

I'm not sure which I'd pick. Oh, I think I'd ask three questions. No, not if you thought about it for a minute. Well, if everybody believed me, well, yeah, like imagine if it came with evidence of some kind, like a map. If it came with evidence of some kind, this reminds me of one of my favorite jokes, but it's like 20 minutes long. I'm not sure if it's worth telling. Definitely not. I think it probably is. I agree with you. I should tell it. No. Okay. Okay. I'm pretty sure that you should say,

I'd like three wishes because the first wish could be, I'd like to end poverty and disease among humans. And that would be good. I feel like you can't ask any question that's gonna be as good as ending poverty and disease. Yeah, well, I mean, look, I could also say, first wish, I wish to know the answer to these three questions. That's good.

Yeah, and then God would be like, hey, no, no pedantic BS, okay? I, yeah. Three questions, three wishes, no cheating. When I'm playing a fun task master game, Hank. Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting thought anyway. It is. It reminds me that this podcast is brought to you by John

in his basement with God. Still watching the world go step to the left, please. Also today's podcast is brought to you by Lipskin. Lipskin, I need to moisturize mine right now because it's been 12 minutes since I last did it. This fact is also brought to you by major, major, major, major. Yes.

Who is an adult named major, major, who is also a major? That's right. And this podcast is brought to you by a universe that contains nothing, a universe that contains nothing less valuable according to Hank than a universe that contains something, although according to Hank than a universe that contains something, although he realized that that value is constructed inside of his head and not

really real. Unless it is really real, which is possible, he's not positive. Is that right? Did I get it? That's right. You got every bit. Yeah. We also have a project for us a message to read.

It's from Jessica to Hannah. Dear little sister, it's been four months since you've left this world. I don't know what to say. It just sucks. I know I'll always hear your voice quoting our favorite shows or laughing at a funny cat video. I would have shared with you. I'm so glad the universe picked you to be my partner in crime growing up. I don't know where I would be if I didn't have you to play laugh fight scheme scream and navigate the world with all forever cherish the memories. Thank you. I miss you. Great for you, John. Yeah, me too. Me too. I think that's such a good description to play laugh fight scheme scream and navigate the world with and I'm so so

sorry for your lost Jessica. Hank, I would like to ask you this question from Kaliope, who writes to your John and Hank, how long have artichokes been around? I mean, I know they were cultivated at some point, but like from what? Something about them just seems very old. Pumpkins and penguins Kaliope.

Now Hank, I think we should say for our listeners, what an artichoke is, or more precisely, what an artichoke was, because I have not seen an artichoke. They're around. I mean, when we were kids, our parents would make artichoke dip. They did make artichokes a lot.

I really liked them. I think that's why. I did not like them and I still don't. I loved them. But I remember you likingichokes a lot. I really liked them. I think that's why. I did not like them and I still don't. I loved them. But I remember you liking them as a kid. And I don't think I've seen an artichoke since childhood. So this is a food product that looks vaguely pineappley. It looks a little like a pineapple.

Like a green pineapple or a little bit like a sort of succulent that isn't a cactus, if that makes any sense. Yeah, it's got spines on the end of the leaves. There's a lot of leaves. It's mostly inedible, but you can eat the bottoms of the leaves. And then at the end, there is a heart, which is the good part, and you stick it in some melted butter and you all...

Yeah. I mean, so good. I wouldn't say so good, and I wouldn't say, oh, yeah, I would say more along the lines of, yeah, okay. Oh, man, I love it. I look, I don't, I have a very sophisticated palette. Not like you. With your silly little tongue, that doesn't know anything.

And my dehydrated lips, sorry to keep bringing them up, but they're just, it's present in my life right now. Yeah. Um, do we know when artichokes began to be cultivated? And more importantly, do we know why? Because it seems to be that like looking at that plant, you would never think like, Oh, I bet this is, I bet I can get more calories off this thing than I'm going to put in to try to cultivate it. Well, as far as how long artichokes have been around, around 3.7 billion years ago, something started to be alive.

And in a very real way, all currently living things are that same thing. So from that perspective, artichokes have been around for about 3.7 billion years, which is the same for you and me and bananas. Sure. And back to you. And by the way, it is very, very weird that all of that life came from life, except at

some point, life must have come from non-life. That's weird. That's a weird thing. It's very weird. It's one of the big ones. That one. All right. So we're gonna make some meaning with that.

But more importantly, when did artichokes start being artichokes and not protests? So there was, they are a kind of thistle. So they're related to thistles, which is wild, which you would never look at a thistle and think, that should be in my mouth like they're they're very dangerous looking plant. And indeed they are very ancient. They're supposedly one of the world's oldest foods. They were first harvested by people in the Middle East. They became popular in ancient Rome and Greece and

there were sort of like two wild-ish things that in one of them, we don't seem to have anymore. And we so we think that that one is the one that turned into the modern artichoke. And the other one still exists out in the wild. It's called Cardoon. And you can still, people did eat it then.

And I think still may eat it now. The point of the elder claimed that it could, the cure baldnessness strengthen the stomach, freshen the breath and increase conception of boys. Oh. And there is also like as it was cultivated, it continued to be cultivated in the Middle East. And when it was brought to Europe

and during the Renaissance, apparently it was frowned upon because people thought it was very scandalous for some reason. Oh. There was something about it that seemed... It does seem... It is a little scandalous. I mean, there is something sensual about it. I guess, yeah, depending on how you eat it.

So... Yeah. So, yeah, that... But I guess we got over that, and then I ate it a bunch when I was in elementary school for some reason. Yeah. I mean, I think that mom was just excited to find a green thing I'd eat. Yeah, but except that the part that you eat isn't really that green.

It's more sort of like whiteish yellowish. Yeah, no, definitely not actually no fiber. I don't know how like what it's made of, but it's, it days like it's madeish. Yeah, no, definitely not actually no fiber. I don't know how like what it's made of, but it's, it days like it's made of, like, you know, avocado stuff, like a fatty. It's soft, warm. That's how I would describe it is as, it's a bit of a crap avocado.

And in 1980s, I don't know how to joke anymore, because if we got avocado in 1980s, Artichokes anymore, because we got avocado in 1980s Florida. Better. There literally was no avocado. And so we had to eat artichokes. And now we don't have to because there are avocados. Yeah.

So people say progress isn't real, but those people did not grow up in Orlando, Florida in the mid 1980s. This next question comes from Tiffany who writes, dear John and Hank, long time listener of the pod, my partner has just started watching Crash Course in the last month and was wondering what the heck is up with Bernice, or I think Bernice rhymes with furnace. He asked me if it was a reference to something because you guys both managed to weasel references in just about everywhere, and I can't find anything.

So who the f is Bernice, not the singer, just her name, say, Tiffany. I don't know. You don't remember. Okay. So I don't remember. All right. So we had an aunt and uh huh. Or she wasn't an aunt.

She was our grandmother's cousin, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is Sunday, familiar. And her name was Burnis. It was spelled Burnis, but it was spoken Burnis rhymes with furnace. And in fact, when she would introduce herself, she would say, it's Burnis rhymes with furnace. And she lived in rural Tennessee

and was a fascinating character a repot a great repository of stories about our grandmother and That's all I remember about her. I Don't remember ever mentioning her in Crash Course, but I might have Yeah, I mean, I remember mom saying Burnus rhymes with furnace a lot Yeah, I mean, I remember mom saying Burnus rhymes with furnace a lot. Yes, I remember that. And then I visited Burnus in Tennessee when I was maybe like 23 years old. It was a great moment actually. So I, and I think I talked about this in the Anthropocene Reviewed book, maybe, but I called

it. So here's how it went down Hank. I was in the McDonald's in Tennessee. And I was like, I think this is, I think we're like relatively close to where my, this woman, Bernis lives, who I've always heard stories about, and I do know her last name.

And so I looked her up in the phone book, and I called her from the pay phone at the McDonald's, and I was like, hey, so, I know this is a weird phone call, but I'm Billy Grace's grandson. And I am actually in your town. And there was a long pause and then she said, so you're saying that you're kin to Billy Grace. And I was like, yeah pause and then she said, so you're saying that you're kin to Billy Grace. And I was like, yeah.

And then she said, so you're kin to me. And I was like, yes. And then she said, well, then come on over. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha It's a great, it's like the best burn a story. That sounds like something burn is would do. So I did. And she was like 88 years old and she made me like Pimento cheese sandwiches. And I was like, I'm not hungry.

I just came from McDonald's and she was like, well, you're not leaving this house without eating. Oh my God. Grant, I love that. I'm so happy for you. So as far as I know, that is the only burnous story I have. I'm, and I'm, and somehow burn us made it into crash course. Indeed, which I, you know, I, apparently, that was a long time ago.

I don't remember everything I said in those videos. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I was not tweeting about them. So it turns out that maybe I wasn't the cause of the win streak. You only have so much power. Yeah. AFC Wimbledon lost 2-0 to Chesterfield in the second round of the FA Cup. This is a bummer because if you get to the third round of the FA Cup, you can make a bunch of money, but it's not a bummer in the sense that we weren't going to win the FA Cup anyway. So who, it's not like we were about to lift a trophy,

you know. So it's a bummer because it could have been a big payday and we do need a big payday. But since we last talked actually, AFC Wimbledon did win an additional game, which is encouraging. And you know, at this point, 19 games into the lead to season, we are solidly mid table. And we like, when I say solidly mid table, I mean that our goal difference is zero. So we have scored exactly as many goals as we have given up. And that's not the end of the world. Like I would love to see us go on a run here. We are only five points off the playoff places. But the main thing is to make sure that we stay out of the relegation zone. So I'm reasonably happy with how things are going so far. And oh, the only other thing that

I should mention is that we have a player in the World Cup, which is very exciting, not least because we get paid. The club is running when you have a player in the World Cup. So for like their time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Chris Gunter, who is our starting fullback, is one of the backup fullbacks for Wales. So congratulations to AFC Wimbledon Zone, World Cup player, Chris Gunter.

You're just like anything that makes us a little bit of money. Oh, yeah. No, it's just good for us. Squeak it out dollar by dollar. Well, at Mars News, great, exciting that the ingenuity helicopter is still working. I just, and it, in fact, has been working so long that they've had to upgrade it. So it can continue to do its job because it or to do a new set of jobs that it wasn't originally intended to do. It was designed to just fly over smooth terrain because they're just basically there to see if

this could like work. But it's continued to exceed expectations. It's been really helpful supporting the rover. Like it can scout ahead and see what's going on help navigate But in order to do that, it needed to get some updates so that it could land better So when it's flying over a smooth terrain, it's been pretty straightforward to find level places that don't have a lot of rocks that would damage the helicopter But those kinds of places are harder to find, where the rover is now. So the software upgrade helps the helicopter find safe spots to land using downward-facing camera to detect objects that might pose a risk and steer away from those to find a better landing area.

And it also helps ingenuity process differences between its own movement and the terrain. So ingenuity was designed for smooth terrain, and he changes the elevation, would look to the helicopter like it itself was going up or down, rather than the ground was coming up and down. Oh yeah. So instead of flying over a hill,

it would like correct its course in a way that was not actually correct. So the new software uses digital elevation maps to make the distinction between hills and the helicopter's own movement, making it better able to navigate in the places where it is now. So super helpful, doing its job, and doing way more than we ever expected it to. So just doing software updates to Mars for helicopter. Just the small matter of updating software on Mars. I love what you just said. Do in its job, trying to be helpful and doing it as well as it can. Like maybe that's maybe

what the little helicopter on Mars is doing is just what we all need to do. The best that we can, for as long as we can. That's right. We're doing our best. Yeah, and it doesn't have to worry about trying to find meaning, just landing spots. So that's great. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well Hank, thank you for Pottig with me. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to email us questions, please do so at Hank and John at gmail.com. We are so grateful for your questions and for getting to spend this time with you.

We're off to record our Patreon only podcast this weekend stuff. You can find out how to listen to that at patreon.com slash dear Hank and John. This podcast is edited by Joseph Tuneum Eddish. It's produced by Rosiana Halls-Rohas. Our communications coordinator is Brooke Shotwell. Our editorial assistant is Debucky Trock-Ravardi.

The music you're hearing now, and at the beginning of the podcast, is by the great Gunnarola. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome. you