Dear Hank & John - 372: Did I Just Glimpse Nirvana?

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

What the heck is going on with Dear Hank and John for the next four to six months?  Hank and John Green have answers! If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [e-mail] us for monthly livestreams and an exclusive weekly podcast at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.Follow us on Twitter! twitter.com/dearhankandjohn 

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John! This is very weird to do the intro. That's right! Or is I prefer to think of it Dear John and Hank. It's a podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give you DB a advice and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John, did you know that you can get rid of most cancers with just a water gun? Oh, is that so?

Yeah, it works on Libras and Capricorns as well. Oh, wait, what? Oh, you mean like, okay, first off, I'm not gonna workshop your joke because you have cancer and it wouldn't be appropriate. Secondly, I do have some notes. What, I think it works. I tried this on someone else and it also failed,

but to me, it's a good joke. It's the get rid of, because that implies like a level of elimination or like complete killing. And then like I've got to reimagine this as just like, just like force them to depart from within 50 feet of me. Yeah.

As the definition of get rid of. So I think the place to look. The good rid of is the problem is the get rid of. Like do you know that you can something else most cancers with just a water gun? A noi? Frustrate? Just, just...

It's tricky. It's tricky. Yeah. So this is a different episode from usual. That's right. Hank, do you want me to go through the whole thing? I know that you're the main character

if your cancer diagnosis. But can I tell you what it was like for me? Yeah, sure. Let's do that. Then you can tell your story. Okay. So, Sarah and I went to Sierra Leone. Before we left for Sierra Leone, there were a few,

Hank and I had a few conversations where he would just mention his health, which is very unusual. Uh-huh. Like, I'm the one who mentions my health in our conversations. Yeah. I'm the one who worries about health. And I was really quite worried about this because it was so, it was unusual. And I thought maybe it was just like a symptom of you being overextended and overworked. Sure. That makes sense. And then we went to Sierra Leone and when we were, you seemed weird when we were in Sierra Leone.

Like I would call you and I would be like, you cannot believe how amazing this 48,000 square foot hospital is. All the good it's going to do. It's just incredible. And you would be like, that is incredible. And, but you just seemed off. Yeah. And like a little, like you were struggling to get

to the level of excitement that I was feeling. And then when we had a long trip home, and when we were in the car on the way home, dad picked us up, our dad picked Sarah and I up, and he basically immediately told us that you'd just had a biopsy and that you'd had an MRI earlier in the week. And there was a lot of suspicion that you might have some kind of cancer in your lymph

nodes. And that was scary, but I think for the first few days also we were all able to tell ourselves like, well, maybe it's nothing and even doctors were like, it could very well be nothing. Yeah. And then you heard from the surgeon that it was definitely not nothing. And then we, I think everybody who loves you and who knew was really, really scared for a while. And I was with mom and dad a lot.

And then we found out that you have Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is a very treatable, very curable form of lymphoma. There's a lot known about it. There's been a good treatments for a while now. And that made it easier for all of us, I think, a little less scary, a little more known. But man, you know the main thing that I've been thinking about the last 10 days, and I know that you don't want me, or the last two weeks, or whatever, three weeks, I don't know how long it's been, but I know that you don't want me to be sentimental

and everything. And I know that we have a lot to talk about, but like, so I don't want to like frutla the emotion part of it. But you know, you're my oldest friend. You're my brother. You're the person I trust most in the world other than my spouse, everything I've made in my professional life, I've made either with you or to impress you, I can't imagine life without both of us.

The thing that is, when I imagine myself dying, which I do, I don't know, six or seven hundred times a day, the thing that is most unbearable is not to think about dying. It's to think about like my kids and Sarah and you. And so it just, here's the thing, the basic thing I want to say is that like the great joy of my, or one of the biggest joys of my life has been the fact that in adulthood, we've been able to be in it together, in all kinds of things together, in making stuff together, in hard times together, in frustration together, in like struggling to fathom the political environment in which we find ourselves together. Like all of that, we've been able to be in it together. And I know that we can't be all the way

in it together with this, but I'm with you. And I want to be as together as we can be, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's, I feel like I've already learned a lot about how to be in this situation, even though I've only been in this situation for like, oh. So as you're hearing this, the vlog with this video would have come out a few days ago. Yeah, maybe we should just, maybe we should back up and you tell your part of the story. Okay. Yeah, sure. I mean, so I had shingles a while back, a bunch over the summer, which can be coincident with lymphoma in both ways where you can get it because you have lymphoma, but you can also, the lymphoma can kind of get, you can kind of have lymphoma like stuff going on and then it can get triggered by shingles.

So just because you have that sort of long-term intense infection. So anyway, but it also can have nothing to do with it. So I had this three bouts of shingles, which is very weird, but I was on humera at the time for my colitis and they figured, that's probably because of the humera and advernis, when I stopped taking the humera, I stopped having shingles.

But the last bout I had was across the top of my chest and into my armpit and shingles, if you don't know, it's an infection of the nerves. That is the same virus as chickenpox. So chickenpox like hangs out in your nervous system and then if your immune system gets lowered, you can get shingles. And so it's terribly painful rash, basically,

where your nerves are infected with this virus. Oh God, that sounds so painful. It hurts a lot. Just to phrase, your nerves are infected with this virus. Yeah. Is very evocative of physical pain. Yeah. And after that, like my armpit remained swollen. And then I went to see the doctor and they were like, there's probably nothing.

And then it remained swollen. And I went to the doctor and they were like, okay, well, let's get us, can. And it was like pretty obvious immediately that this was not a something that probably wasn't a big deal. It was like this could very well be a big deal. And like the tech who was doing my ultrasound was like, you should stay here.

Usually there's a doctor who I can go grab. Cause usually the tech is like, they don't say anything. They are like, that's not their job. You'll get your results in a couple days. Yeah. But, you know, in the doctor sort of explained what it was exactly about the ultrasound that looked suspicious, and like I kidn't tell you. It was like, there's been a facepent of the fatty hyla or something like that, and I'm

like, okay, I'm sure. I believe you that it's worrying. And then, you know, so I got it to get scheduled for a biopsy and then that happened and then it takes a while for the biopsy results to come back. Sometimes a really long time because they're not like with certain problems, it's a, it can be a bunch of different things

and they have to like do genetic testing, et cetera. But with this, it took a couple of days and there was that period that was probably the worst bit so far between finding out that it was lymphoma, specifically, which did mean that it wasn't a number of other things that it could have been, that would have been bad, which would be like a mellanoma that had moved my lymph nodes or something like that. So that would have been worse than this. But the period of time between finding out that it was, you know, we're going to have to

do cancer stuff, which is good to find out because you can start some balls rolling and finding out what kind it was, was the worst part and like, it was like you would not believe how giddy I was finding out that it was Hodgkins. Like it was ridiculous because you know, that's a different game than a lot of lymphomas. Yeah, it was good news amid the bad news.

Not that other, you know, there's just a lot of forms of lymphoma, of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. There's like over 60 and some of them are very treatable and some of them are really, really difficult to treat. Yeah, I mean, sometimes you don't even treat like certain kinds of non-Hodgkin's. It's just like, oh, you've got it,

but like, we're gonna keep an eye on you until it gets bad and then we'll treat you because the treatment. And that's another thing that I've learned, if you're curious, this is all about balancing with Hodgkin specifically, but really with all cancer and chemotherapy, it's about balancing the side effects of the treatment with the potential positive outcomes.

Right. So you could go way harder than they're gonna go on me, cause they're gonna let it go and see how it responds and then with Hodgkin's usually it responds pretty well and then they give you some time to see if it comes back and they monitor you for a long time, usually it doesn't come back and if it does, then they just go again.

And usually it responds well the second time. So, or they do radiation or they do immunotherapy, and there's a bunch of treatments that exist now that didn't exist even five years ago. And so it's about trying to, because the chemo can have side effects that are not like you feel bad for a month, you can get some damage to your heart or some damage to your lungs and like so you gotta watch out for that. Right, it's all kinds of long-term side effects too. It increases certain risks, long-term. Right, and the radiation is the same way where you don't want to do radiation on the first go because you're increasing odds of future problems. Future cancers.

Yeah, odds of future problems, future cancers. The week that we're recording this is kind of my week from hell. Monday's great, Tuesday, I'm prepping for a colonoscopy because I had a colonoscopy scheduled, they really wanna do it, both to see how my current treatment regimen is working and just for screening reasons. And we've been postponing it

because of, because my treatment has been changing. But they don't want you to do a colonoscopy after you've started chemo because it can increase chances of complications. So they like moved it up. So tomorrow I start the prep for my colonoscopy. Then I get the colonoscopy. Then I get my PET scan and my chemo port.

That PET scan will tell me how, like, what stage lymphoma, what Hodgkin's this is. As of right now, it seems like, since I'm feeling fine and the scans did not show it, my MRI didn't show it in any other places, this probably very early in the progression of the disease, but we'll confirm that because MRIs don't show everything with the PET scan, and then I start chemo on Friday.

Yeah. Which, as of the recording of this podcast, is three days ago, or the release of this podcast. Right. So. Right, so as you're listening, Hank has already started treatment and he's on the road. Yeah.

There's a little bit of... So we don't argue much. I often say that we've only had one argument, which was at VidCon. But you've pointed out that really, we've had more arguments than that. It's just that only one really erupted into a full... I don't even think you raised your voice necessarily,

but like, you know what I mean? Like... Yeah. So I would actually argue that our second biggest argument behind the argument that we had at VidCon when the Gregory Brothers video was malfunctioning is about what the next six months look like. Because one, I mean, yeah, but I think we should have, I, I, I, I think it's a good idea to have this out. Yeah. Let's model how we have arguments. Hank, well, I, I think we're probably going to come to the same place, which is where

I'm at. I think that we're going to end up where I am, John. That's we always do. That's why we never have arguments. Um, it's because I always had Hank just slowly delivers me to his place. No, sometimes I remain passionately opposed to Hank's positions. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what I think. And the argument just, the argument just to be clear is about, it's about work, it's about dear Hank and John, it's about vlog brothers, it's about all the stuff that we do together. And this is, look, like, it's complicated because obviously work is not the most important thing, but work is really important. You know, like, there are over a hundred people who work for either DFTBA or, or complexly, and, you know, for whom Hank is ultimately their

CEO. And so it's not an insignificant thing. And then there's the community of, of Nerdfighteria and, and the community of people who listen to this podcast. And we are conscious while we know that, you know, everybody listening is only wants the best for Hank and only wants whatever's going to be good and helpful for him. We're also conscious of the fact that this isn't just hard for Hank.

It's also hard for everybody who cares about Hank, which includes people who listen, are listening right now, and includes people who care about our videos, and people who work for Complexly and DFTBA. You know, there's so many people around the world who are thinking of and dare I say it, Hank praying for Hank. And we want to be conscious of that. And while also finding our way through, because it's complicated.

And so I think my impulse is to say who Hank needs to be unsubbatical, let's set some absolute boundaries. And I think Hank's impulse is more like, let's see how I feel. And that's right. The thing I don't wanna do is set myself up to not have anything to do.

Right, I get that. I totally get that. I totally get that. Yeah, and your response to that, which I get, is like, just hang out. Read books, watch TV, go for walks, do restorative yoga. And I'm like, yes.

Yeah. But I need, I, you know, there's a bunch of stuff that I feel good at when I'm doing it. Right. And that I feel better after I'm done. And I kind of expected, because I went in to shoot SciShow the sort of like three days after I found out, and hadn't really told anybody yet,

except for a couple high-level people at Complexly and TFTBA. And I was like, I'm gonna be so tired after this. I'm gonna be so exhausted. Cause I was really like, so I got the biopsy where they actually remove your whole lymph node or A whole lymph node so that they can get a really good look at what's going on inside.

And like after that I felt really tired. And then like four days later I still felt really tired. And I was like, this is the lymphoma. I'm like, I have lymphoma fatigue. And then I just kept getting less tired every day and it turned out that I had surgery fatigue and I had stress fatigue and I had maybe, you know, pain killer fatigue.

And, you know, abuse bar fatigue just because, you know, I was, I was drowsy because of ticketing, anti-anxiety because I was really freaked out. And so that, and I go on, I film SciShow and it was a light shoot day, and then I do tangents. And at the end of that, I felt the best I had felt since like the first worrying scan. And I was like, okay, this is important data because honestly, what I do want to do is lay in bed and feel like crap.

Like, I totally want to do that. I'm into that. Like, that's what my brain is pushing for a lot of the time. And I don't feel better in that situation. And so I want to figure out things to work on that are low lift, low stress that are not, and like, honestly, also, I need to be doing physical things, though that's going to be extra hard, I think, you know, biggest side-effect of chemo is the thing that everybody has this fatigue. And so, I got, you know, like, what I want is to not have to do anything. Yeah.

But to do things that make me like when I feel up to it, to do things that make me feel good. Right. And like, you know, I have been journaling which I never do, because that's felt very necessary. Yeah. And I've been writing, you know, just writing some stuff that's not journaling. Great. But I have no idea what direction it's moving in. I love to hear that, though. With no goal. That's the best guide.

No goal. And what I don't want is to be in a situation where I think I'd feel better if I made a podcast or made a vlog with this video or went into shoot SciShow and people are like, no, you can't. Right. Right. And I, I, I, I absolutely understand that. And, and I, you know what, we were going to have an argument. And I just, I, I, I completely acquiesce like I agree with, unfortunately, I agree with everything he said. So I can't,. I can't model how to have an argument, except to say that I am concerned that you feel obligations even when everyone works really hard to have you not feel them. So I just want you to be conscious of that. Right. So I have a couple of questions

from what you just shared, but the first thing is that for the next like four to six to 12 months, depending on treatment and lots of other things, you're not gonna have a weekly do your hank and john. You may not have any do your hank and john, except for the like 600 episodes that we've already made half of which you haven't listened to.

And we encourage you to listen to those episodes because we will be keep, John, we'll be recording new advertisements, because we have, I'll be using that. I mean, that's a weird thing, but like we have to have an ad break in this one, because we, um, well, we need to, like, this wasn't obvious, just to state the obvious, like, we didn't have this in the budget. We also have, you know, we could cancel the contracts, but we have contracts.

And we have to shift, all right? Yeah, and we may have to cancel the contracts. That's not a big deal. As the person who's taking over for Hank and some of these CEO roles, I look forward to those phone calls where I can be like, we're canceling this contract. And if you are mean about it, you kind of suck. Just, just, you know, like, square that with your own conscience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like, you know, which is not to say like we expect advertisers to spend money on on things that aren't being advertised or like impressions that don't exist, but we do expect advertisers to be cool about us taking some time off and then not charging them. We do expect that to be cool. So anyway, for the next four to six to 12 months, depending on how everything goes, treatment wise, we don't know how often, if at all, there will be new episodes of Dear Hank and John, because we just don't want to put that pressure on Hank. Yeah. And I like doing it. So, of course. And if you call me and you say, I'd like to record a podcast right now, I'm done watching Netflix and I'm done writing

and I want to record a podcast, I'll be like, great, let's record a podcast. But I don't want to have the expectation that that's going to happen for listeners or for us because we just don't know. And I think making space for you to feel however you're going to feel is the right call. Right. And if you want to watch a bunch or listen to a bunch of old deer hanging johns. Oh, we've got some. That's there. We got there.

We're ready for you. That's great. Yeah. Get those impressions. Yeah. To deliver. Yeah, uh, to deliver. No, no, we're fine. Everything's fine. If you've joined the Patreon, we'd love it if you stayed. We will, we will be back. Yeah. But, but, and, and we should say like the, just so nobody worries, like the money from this podcast doesn't go to us.

It goes to complexity to support stuff like SciShow and Crash Course and all the other stuff that gets made there. And the folks working behind the podcast who were so grateful to for their flexibility, especially the last few weeks, are going to be fine as well. So don't worry on our account. We just want to apologize for the fact that we do have to have an ad break, which reminds me. Hank, yep. Oh, this is gonna be hard.

Today's podcast is brought to you by... Uh-huh. Pfft. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. I'll tell you, man. I'll tell you, it's all been fun and games for the last five years, but it turns out you gotta get life you, man. I'll tell you, it's all been fun and games for the last five years, but it turns out

you gotta get life insurance, guys. Yeah. Yeah. He was just less this role he had. I don't wanna do another one. I had a couple in mind. Okay, what do you got? No, I had a moment I had one, but then my here's something

that's been happening to me in the last month, like my mind will go utterly blank, utterly like the like so blank that I'm like, did I just achieve enlightenment? Do I exist? No, for me, it's more like, is that, did I just glimpse Nirvana? There's nothing. There's just nothing there. There's no suffering, because there's no desire, because there's nothing.

So yeah, anyway, here's maybe some ads. I don't know if we sold these impressions. So John, I have a question for you. Great. What's my job like? You've done a little bit of it in the last week or two. How is it?

Oh my God. Oh well, I don't know what it's like normally. It's not easy and it's not as easy as you make it out to be and it's very time consuming and I don't know how you do other stuff. Like I do not know how you did this job or these jobs being the CEO of DFTVA and Complexly and wrote two novels.

I don't understand how you did that. I also have a hard time figuring that out. Here's what I'll say about your job. You work with amazing people. And that makes it bearable. But it is not an easy job. I am, I'll tell you what, after two weeks of kind of doing your job, I'm very, very impressed. And by the way, you've still been doing much of your job. Like I don't really fully take on your jobs until like Wednesday, a couple days from now.

And I'm quaking in my boots, man. Good. John, do you want to know some things I've learned about being a cancer patient? Yeah, yeah, are these gonna be dad jokes as well? Or are these gonna be actual observations based on eight, eight days of experience? Well, the other dad joke I had was, what's the most expensive haircut you can get? I don't see that. It's a great joke. Yeah, it's not only is it expensive, it's not great.

Yeah, it's a bad haircut and it takes forever. The weeks, weeks of individual hair is getting cut. How do you feel about the prospect, just to turn it back to you, because I know you're trying to make it about me for a minute, but how do you feel about the prospect of losing your hair? Uh, is that an emotional connection for you? Yeah, I worry about it a little bit when it cut, so there's a bunch of reasons

why I might not make YouTube videos, obviously. But hair being one of them is interesting to think, I don't know, I talked about this in my vlog with this video, but I don't know, this is an identity that I'm having put upon me I don't know if, I talked about this in my vlog with this video, but I don't know, this is an identity that I'm having put upon me by reality, and I don't know how to what extent I want to lean into it. And like, but, you know, it's just our bodies. It's just, I am also worried about how Orin's gonna feel about it.

He does not, he's not a big fan of change. And I think that that might be the thing that hits him, hits home the most for him. And I honestly worry more about my eyebrows than my hair, which you can do makeup things for sure. But with your eyebrows, they're part of how you express yourself and part of how you communicate. Yeah, like we see lots of people without hair.

Right. But eyebrows usually stick around unless there's a reason. Right. And, you know, so I've thought about that. And like there's lots of things you can do. You can go full eyebrow wig if you want to. Yeah. Yeah, so I also don't know how to play it exactly because there's like two bad parts of it.

One, you start to get really thin hair. And two, there's hair everywhere. And so the thing that to do is usually once it starts to come out, you shave it so that you're not like clocking up your drains all the time. And it's so much more hair on your head than you think. And so I don't, I don't, I haven't sort of decided how I'm going to play that one yet. Yeah. But yeah, it's definitely, it's a thing that, like, it's, it's a present thought, which

is surprising, honestly. Well, I think everybody responds to it differently, but you're right that it's sort of the, it's a very visible marker, right? Like it's a, it's something that's visibly associated with cancer for a lot of people. And then also lots of, for lots of people like their hair is a big part of their self-expression. Yeah, it's, you know, and I think for you maybe, maybe a little bit less so since you have had the same haircut since you were about eight. But I think the part of it that I can see being difficult for you is that, like you said, it's an identity that you didn't choose and I could see how you might not feel comfortable with your appearance. But I actually think that you might, you might be very handsome.

We'll see what shape my head is. Yeah, like there's always the possibility that orange gonna be like finally, dad looks like he's supposed to look. So what are the things that you've learned so far in your eight days as a cancer patient? So 20 days. First, not that much, and I have a lot of learning left to

do. For sure. So I've talked to a lot of people who have known about this. And here are the best and worst things you can say from my experience so far. Great. I think this is something everybody needs. Yes. I think that this is like the most important learning because everybody is going to know somebody with cancer at the everybody needs. Yes. I think that this is like the most important learning because everybody's gonna know somebody with cancer at the very least. Worst thing is they ask how you're doing, and I say, okay, and then they say,

but how are you really doing? Oh, yeah. This is not what I want to do. I would tell you how I'm really doing if I wanted to. Also, I have no idea how I'm really doing. Like, it's very deep and complex. I can't dig that deep right now.

And I really don't wanna look, thank you. I'm at the grocery store. I don't really wanna think too hard about how I'm doing. Yeah. And then on the other hand, the best thing someone has said to me is I think you're doing really good.

Right. Like, I think you're doing this well. Yeah. And instead of someone asking me how I'm doing, because I feel like I'm a big huge pile of mess, garb just wet garbage, being told that this is hard and I'm doing a good job, is like, that's what I need to hear,

because I don't know if I'm doing a good job and I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. Like I know what I'm supposed to be doing, like objectively, like I'm on the path, I'm doing the things, I got all the things scheduled and you know, I think I did a good job of getting things on the rails. But like to just hear that I'm doing it right, it feels really good, because that's like one of the hardest parts of this is that like it's so new,

I don't know what it's supposed to feel like or be like, and I don't know how to feel. So like just tell me out of feel, that's great. Tell me to feel like I'm doing a good job. That will feel very good. So, although, yes. would it feel good if somebody walked up to you in the grocery store and said, you're doing a great job? I don't know that it won't. No, I think it has to be somebody who has some, a, some awareness of the situation.

Right. Yeah. But if somebody walks up to you in a grocery store, the nicest thing they can say is, I hope you're doing well. And we're thinking about you. You got this, we're rooting for you, that kind of thing. Yeah, and that's great. I've gotten lots of that. And then the next time, it's like, so you have Entakos tonight? Yes. Like that's... Yes, yes.

Right. Like, you are still other things. Yeah. And I can imagine that you would not want to have your identity diminished to this identity you didn't choose. Like that includes who you are, that's part of who you are, but it's certainly not all of who you are. Not to take it back to tuberculosis, but that's something that I heard a lot from people living with MDR TB, that one of the hardest things about it is that to their social

order to their community and sometimes even to their families, they become nothing but a person with TB, who is therefore dangerous, discounted, a threat, a representation of a fear rather than a person. Just one other comment on this or question about this. Don't you think worse than how are you really feeling would be if you reached out to a good friend to tell them about your cancer diagnosis, and then they started crying and said,

how can this be happening? You do so much yoga. That one hasn't happened to me. Which is what I said to my dear friend, Amy. So whatever, whatever people have said to you, heck, just take solace. Yeah. The knowledge. It could be worse. It could be that. It could be that. Could be that. So when you think about what you need, of course, like, it's a one day at a time thing,

you have no, like you said, you have a lot to learn. You don't know what the future looks like, even like five days into the future, which must be its own kind of stress. But do you think that you're going to get into a new kind of media? Because that's what it seems to me like you will have time for. Yeah. And I think that that's an opportunity. Well, what do you mean, John?

I mean, like enjoying it or creating it. Hard boiled noir mystery movies from the 40s. Gotcha. No stakes. Lots of death, but not any death that you're invested in. Not only are all of the characters dead, all the actors are dead. This is a tricky thing for me, because I have a hard time enjoying content that I can't

see myself participating in somehow. Whoa. Wait. What? So you tell me that you can't like Star Wars because you're like, I'm not a Jedi. No, no, no, no. I watch Star Wars and I'm like, yeah, I could be that Stormtrooper. What do you mean you could be that stormtrooper?

I don't understand. Like in the like in the costume. Oh, like you could be that like the actor. Wait, you watch movies that you think like which role would I play? I feel like I'm bearing my soul too much. I was going to say this might actually be the most vulnerable moment, not any of the cancer talk. This is real openness right here and I appreciate it and I want to say that I hear you

that when you watch a movie, you think what role would I play? Or I think like how would I write that scene or I think? Yeah, yeah, yeah, like how would I direct it? I'll tell you what, that's perfect with noir mystery movies because you'll say how would I write this scene? Maybe a little less sexist. Yeah. But I think what you'd enjoy about them is the clipped humorous,

not exactly humorous, but like the clipped, sharply observed dialogue. Mm-hmm. Yes, I like that. You know, I like that a lot. I, you know, what I have been, so like the thing that's been best so far, and I would expect for this to wane some, but is anything that's got like a joke every five seconds? So.

Wains world. Yeah, yeah, like really silly funny movies, Seinfeld, stand-up comedy. The one where Will Ferrell is a professional ice skater. Yeah, like that. Yeah. It has to have a lot of jokes very fast. Right, to keep my brain occupied.

They don't even all have to land, right? Like that's the magic of those movies. Is the jokes don't all all have to land, right? Like that's the magic of those movies, is the jokes don't all have to be good, but the quantity has to be incredibly hot. Yeah. And you know what this means, John? Is that I've been imagining myself doing stand-up about cancer.

No, please God, please God. I know, please God. I'm gonna be very vulnerable. Right. The last thing I need is Hank Green emerging from this experience with a new damn job. It's right. I can't have touring. I can't have a tour in America. What if something happens? What if you break a leg or something? And then I have to tour America America just like I have to be the CEO of these companies for a few months. I don't like that at all.

Who will think about me? Oh man. I don't know, John. Oh God, I have to be like beyond stage like doing Hank's jokes. That's right. Being like being like... Being like Euripides? You mend his.

It's a deep cut.icles. So deep cut. It's a deep cut. Oh, all right. So how are you doing really? No idea, John. Yeah, I hear you. I think the main thing that we want to say, though, to everybody listening is that we know this is hard. We know this is tough for you.

Like Hank and I have had a while to talk about this and talk about it with family and process it and dream about it and all that stuff. And obviously we know that it's different for you than if it was a member of your family, but it's also it is somebody you care about. And it's scary, it's scary for us too. And we're sorry to have this bad news to drop on you.

But also, you know what, I've something I've noticed in the last three weeks, Hank. I say a sentence that's sad. Like this this is hard. This is hard. This sucks. And then I say, but yeah, but I don't know what's coming after I say, but yeah, why did I say that? Why did I do that? It's like, is this an American thing? We're like, they raised us to be improbably optimistic and hopeful in the face of all that. I don't know what it, well, I think it's just a human thing. It's a human.

You want to tell people just bad news. Right, you want to tell them the butt. Yeah. If you haven't watched my vlog for this video, you can watch that. It's quite, it's about a little over 10 minutes long and it has some of the butts in it, like that Hodgkin's lymphomas,

one of the better cancers if you're gonna get a cancer, it's certainly not lucky because it's fair, it's actually quite rare. It's lucky as these things go. It's lucky as these things go. And the, I don't know what the treatment journey's gonna look like, no one really knows, this is the other thing that I have learned is that there isn't a lot of comparability between stories

because you don't know how treatment's going to affect you. You don't know a lot about how the disease is progressing because you don't get a pet scan every two days. You're always in situations of uncertainty, and you're always in situations where there's a bunch of new stuff that you don't have control over. And we're always in that situation, where control is always a bit of an illusion.

Things can always change very quickly. And I'm glad to know what's wrong. I'm glad to know what to do about it. I'm glad, I'm very glad that the financial part of this is not stressing me out, which would be for 99% of Americans. I'm very glad to have such great support structures. I'm very glad that sort of like what to do is known,

but like what it's going to be like is unknown. Yeah. People respond very differently to these drugs. The side effect profiles are very different person to person. The, you know, the cancer responds differently in different people. It's so like sometimes it's short and sometimes it's long and you just don't know until you're through. And so like the thing that was the first thing anybody said to me when it looked like I might have cancer was like, you need to start seeing this as what's going on today. And that's it. And if you're thinking about what might be in six months,

don't because you don't know. You just have no idea what this is going to be like. Right. So just take it day to day. And it's very hard for me to do. Yeah. But I am better when I'm doing it that way. I do feel better. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that that's the right approach. You're right that uncertainty is with us all the time. And sometimes we can be hard.

I think sometimes we can say, it's always an illusion. Safety, security, certainty is always an illusion, and that's true. It is always an illusion, like safety, security, certainty is always an illusion. And that's true, it is always an illusion, but like it's a privilege to be able to take respite in that illusion. Yeah. And sometimes in your life, you will not be able to take respite in that illusion. And that's hard.

Yeah. But I did it again. You said what? But isn't it weird that this is happening? That's the other thing. It's very weird. It's very weird. It's very weird. I mean, I keep, even now, two weeks post-diagnosis,

as you're hearing this, I'm in chemo-hangover mode. I'm still like, but maybe, maybe I don't though. Yeah. Right. It seems like probably like, it can't be, that can't be really the thing. Yeah, right. I mean, the whole thing about, yeah, I mean,

I feel the same way, like, on a different scale, obviously, because it's not happening to me, but that same feeling of like, oh, weird. Like, yeah. Weird. And there is also the weirdness of having to talk about it in public, which is weird.

But it would also be weird to not talk about it in public. And certainly, I don't know about you Hank, but when I was 25 years old and making a commitment to have a public life that I did not understand that I was making, with the publication of my first book, it did not occur to me that I would have to live that I would have to live the big moments in life in public. Or to some extent. But it also would have felt, I mean, this is something that we talked about a lot

at the very beginning. Like, I was like, you know, whatever, if you wanna say, like, we're taking a sabbatical because we're taking a sabbatical because I got overworked, I'd be like, great fine. But that felt off to you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are people who have done it that way

and I totally respect that choice. And me too. And understand it. This is weird. There are parts of it that I'm worried about. I'm worried about like, I don't think that press is gonna care that much or be invasive.

I am a little, if you've been through chemo and you've got advice, I will hear it for sure. If you've got, here's how you cure cancer without chemo. I don't need to hear the, I'm sure that's my meaning, but that's not helpful. It's not meaning, but like that's not, that's not, that's not helpful. It's not helpful or honestly, it's not real. You know, you have to, you have to face these things with reality and, and with the clear knowledge that we have lots of evidence for what works in situations like this and what doesn't. Yeah, so in conclusion, if you're a hemoc doctor, or or you've been through chemo by all means send us an email at Hakenjohnage.com

Other ones. I've been really glad to hear from friends and to have some friends who've been through it and they're like, you know You ask ask for a second blanket and make sure you bring a snack and You know the nurses like it when you bring cookies like all that is great. Yeah You know, the nurses like it when you bring cookies, like all of that is great. Yeah. Very into that. And also, like, you know, maybe I probably should be doing some physical activities that I'm capable of. So that's also something I need to think about.

And so I've been reading the subreddits and with watching the YouTube videos. And it's great to have those resources for sure. Yeah, but to go back to the point, there are aspects of it being public that of course are concerning and potentially challenging. Yeah. But also the relationship that we've built with this community is such that

over the last like 17 years or whatever is such that I think for both of us it would be hard not to talk about what's going on. Yeah. And just disappear. Yeah. I mean, I felt bad like canceling those two, I had to cancel two college events and it was before I had anything definitive. And I felt bad just doing that. Yeah. And not having a clear reason why. Right. So.

Right. I do want to address a couple of things that I think might come up in response to this. First off, why don't you do dear John and Sarah or dear John and guest host for a few months? I think the short answer is because I don't want to. At its core, this is a podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give you dubious advice and bring you all the weeks news from both Mars and

AFC Wimbledon. And I don't really want to lose that. I certainly don't want to lose it for months. And also unlike Hank, I don't know that I have the capacity to do all this stuff well. And so that's the other reason. The same may go for vlogbrothers videos. I have no idea. And but it's vlogbrothers.

Like that's what it's always been. Yeah, I think that I totally agree. And I, that's what I want. And it shouldn't matter. Nothing else should matter. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

And so that's a great card to be able to play. And, you know, I also want to keep making videos. They might, they might look different in one way or another. And they might be more infrequent. And I don't know. And maybe there won't be any. But like, where am I right now? I like making YouTube videos, and it's easy,

not to brag, but I know how to do it. When you've done something 1400 times, it's easier than it used to be, that's for sure. It's way easier for you than it is for me. Every time I see your workflow, I'm just like, oh, that's how he does it in three hours instead of 10. Yeah. But I, yeah, I mean, my feeling about that is basically,

like if you call me and tell me you want to do a podcast, we'll make a podcast and if you call me and tell me you're gonna make a vlog for this video on Friday, I'll make one on the Tuesday before and the Tuesday after or something like that, but like, no, I don't think anybody, I honestly Hank, I don't think anybody, honestly Hank, I don't think anybody wants us to feel, like I don't think anybody's putting pressure on us

to do that stuff except for us. Yeah, and I only wanna do it if it feels good. And like editing a video is very meditative for me and it is very comfortable. And like recording it. Kind of sucks. And writing it is the bigger question, like to what extent am I gonna be,

am I gonna be interested or able? Yeah. I mean, the other thing that if I don't feel like recording and editing a video, I have thought about whether we could just do like some newsletter updates. So we, the, don't bacteria newsletter,

you can find them linked to that in the vlog brothers video. And sign up for that if you wanna get updates and stuff. And that'll be, at least be a point of contact. Can I tell them about how you tried to watch another gosh darn, I think it's still like this is a good idea. Business venture in the midst of this. Well, yeah, sure.

I flipped my lid. You didn't like, John didn't like it. Oh my God, I'm still mad. I gave up on that one immediately. As soon as I saw the way I would interpret it, I was like, yeah, everybody was gonna, it wasn't gonna be just me. Yeah.

But yeah, so like I read an early draft of Hank's video and Hank's video is so beautiful. It's so great. You did a good job. You're doing a good job. But the first draft, it was also great. It was beautiful, except at the end, you know how at the end of every YouTube video, like every really effective YouTube video, there's a call to action.

Like, like and subscribe, or please donate to this cause or buy awesome coffee at awesomecoffeeclub.com. More necessary than ever. Whatever it is. Hanks call the action at the end of the dang video was, I don't know how many vloggers for this video is I'm going to make it, but I'm starting up a new business. It's not really what I said. It's a newsletter business. It's a sign up for my brand new newsletter. And I was like, if you do that, if you start, if you represented what I said, if you reset the clock on how long has it been since I started a thing after just after getting diagnosed with cancer. Like, everyone is going to be as mad as I am.

Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking of fresh, a nice fresh newsletter. With, you know, for... We got a newsletter. Yeah, but we have a newsletter. And it's great. It is good. It provides a high quality newsletter experience to its tens of thousands of subscribers. The last thing we need is a new thing.

That was a good point. Thank you. Yeah. So you won that one. I'm also doing a good job. You are doing a good job. Thank you. I think that's, and you know what, everybody out there listening, you are doing a good job.

That's all we want. And we don't care how you're feeling really. No, we do. But we don't want to put pressure feeling really. No, we do. But we don't want to put pressure on you to answer it. You'll let us know. Yeah. Well, I mean, the whatever way you're feeling is normal, this is a very strange situation,

for sure. And, you know, it's been helpful for me to have folks be like, all the different directions your mind is running in, it's all normal and it's all common. And everybody's going to bring their own stuff to it, right? Because so many people who are listening to this are cancer survivors or love a cancer survivor or lost somebody to cancer. And so everybody's going to bring their own particular memories or experiences to this and co-mingle

that with this experience that we're having. So we also just, I think it's so individual and so all we can really do is make space for that. The last thing I want, there is no news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon this week. Not as far as we know. Like literally. Not just that we don't want to talk about it, I don't think anything happened.

But I do want to say that in advance of feeling it, because we haven't felt it yet, because as we're recording this, not that many people know. We're very grateful for your support, your generosity, your understanding. And I don't know if I'll make an yesterday video this year on August 18th, but I think I love you so much. I admire you so much. It's, this has been a hard, hard thing for you to go through already, but I admire the way that you're going through it with integrity, with curiosity,

seeking to learn and opening yourself up to the hard feelings as well. yourself up to the hard feelings as well. So yeah, I just, I just like you a lot. Thanks. I like you too, John. I wasn't thinking about you. I was thinking about me. I was being selfish in that moment. No, I appreciate those kind words, though. Oh, man. Yeah. So thanks for coming to our lymphoma spectacular. Yep. Thanks for making a podcast with me, John. Oh, thanks for to everybody who sent in their question.

Sorry, we didn't answer any. I was doing okay until you said, thanks for making a podcast with me. And then I got real emotional. That's weird. I know. I know. I know. It's like when I didn't cry at my high school graduation

until I saw this kid, I didn't know. And I was like, I'm never going to see that kid. And by the way, I haven't. And there's just something, yeah, there's something, you know, little moments where you just realize like how much you have to be grateful for. Like I'm just so glad that we've been able to make so many podcasts together. I look forward to making many more.

I'm okay with extending the hiatus until, say, January of 2027. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Just debuting Dear John and Hank. I knew hip-hop. I also like, it's funny that you, I have to say this,

it's funny that you, when I proposed the idea of a newsletter that I might use if I felt like it, which is how I phrased it. Yeah. That you were like, that is, you cannot do that. But when I said to you,

maybe this will give us some time to work on that book project that we would like to maybe do together, you were like, yeah! Yeah! You were very excited about that. Yeah, okay, all right. Do you not see that, I thought we were, I thought we were in the conclusion phase

of the podcast, but I guess not. Everybody's stopped listening. When they thought we were wrapping up, but it turns out that we had a whole other bit to get to. And this is a genuine question. I'm not asking this rhetorically. It may sound like I'm asking it rhetorically, but that's only because I'm frustrated. Do you not see the difference between starting a new thing that is open-ended, has no shape, and may last forever, and writing a book? Yeah, I guess I do.

Okay, that's great. I'm super encouraged that you see the difference between those two kinds of projects. I probably should see that, see that, that, that different shape more often. I love a thing that ends. Yeah. Hank loves an open-ended commitment. And God, thank God, because like otherwise we might not have made an open-ended commitment to partners in health, we might not have made an open-ended commitment to vlog brothers and deer, Hank and John, and lots of other stuff, but like, let's all, all, all, hail. Some things ended, you know, like this book that we're hopefully going to write together with all your with all of yeah, all the energy I'm going to have for the next two months.

But the hope is that that's not an obligation. Exactly. It's just like whenever you feel like it, you can write me. And you still haven't written me anything. So like, and that's fine. I was just thinking on it, but. No rush, man, no, and if it never happens, that's good too.

Yeah. Zero deadlines, that's the difference, is like no deadlines, no open-endedness. If it happens, it'll happen in the end, and if it doesn't happen, nobody ever has to know about it. Except for all these people who do know that there is something. Except for the 12 people who listened after the end. Stuffed through.

Ha ha ha. This podcast was edited by Kelly Dishman, produced by Rosie on a Hall for O'Hoss. Our communications coordinator is Brooke Shotwell. Our editorial assistant is Deboki Chakravarti. The music you're hearing now and the band of the podcast is by the great Gonna Roll Up. And as they say in our hometown hometown don't forget to be awesome