Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Joel Kim Booster

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Comic and the star and co-creator of Hulu's “Fire Island” Joel Kim Booster joins the show. Over ghost chili lamb vindaloo and samosas, Joel tells me about growing up in a conservative Christian household in the Midwest, reconnecting with his mom after his father’s passing, and falling in love for the first time after meeting his boyfriend at “Gay Disneyland.” This episode was recorded at Badmaash in Downtown Los Angeles, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you might know him from his hit movie Fire Island or his Netflix special, Psychosexual. It's Joel Kim Booster. Within a month, basically, of sending me to public school, I came out of the closet. I hooked up for the first time. I drank for the first time. I smoked weed for the first time.

I did it all. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So I got to meet Joel Kim Booster a few years ago when I presented a Gotham Award to the cast of the movie Fire Island, which Joel wrote and also stars in. I sat at the cast table during the ceremony and I got to witness the way Joel joyfully celebrated

the entire group that brought them to that moment. I began following Joel's career after seeing Fire Island and have since fallen in love with his comedy. He draws from his adopted evangelical family, his coming out experience, and his, I don't know what better way to say this, but I guess his learning curve of being an Asian American. I certainly felt like an outsider growing up, but I don't know, I've got nothing on Joel Kim Booster.

It's quite a superpower to reclaim our painful experiences and repurpose them to bring joy to others. And that's certainly what Joel has done so brilliantly. Hi Joel, you look cute. Thank you, thank you. You look very like GQ, like catalog ready. Well, I'm covering up for how I feel on the inside. I brought Joel to Bodmosh in downtown LA,

which serves a modern take on Indian cuisine. Chef Pawan Mahindro and his sons Nukkal and Arjun opened it in 2013. As Nukkal explained to me, the food draws from their Punjabi roots, following his father's voyage from India to Canada and finally L.A. Though many dishes are based on traditional family recipes, the trio isn't scared to reimagine recipes to create some of the most delicious and innovative dishes I have ever had. Badmash translates to something like rascal. It's what Nuckle and Arjun's grandfather called them when they were being mischievous.

And it's fitting because at Badmash, they clearly make their own rules. It has kind of a punk rock edge to it. From its bold flavor combos like chicken tikka poutine and ghost chili lamb vindaloo to the space itself, friend with vintage Bollywood film posters and Warhol-esque murals of Gandhi, Badmosh is definitely a restaurant with a truly playful spirit. If you come here, make sure to bring friends because you're going to need them to finish everything you end up ordering. Or you'll just have a lot to bring friends, because you're going to need them to finish everything you end up ordering. Or you'll just have a lot to take home, which is also great.

Okay, let's get to the conversation. What did you do over Memorial Day? I, um, we were in Palm Springs. Okay. It was my first vacation of the year, though, so I really went for it. I... I'm proud of you. Yes. I was invited to go with some of my friends to Palm Springs.

I was like, I just can't do the over 100 degree heat and my lily skin can't handle it. I love the heat. Like when I lived in Chicago, I didn't even own an air conditioner. Like I had a compartment, no AC. I don't know how I convinced guys to come over, quite honestly. It's a scam of the century.

Wait, it was an attic apartment? Was it a walk-up? It was a walk-up, yeah. Oh, no. Just guys walking up, like totally out of breath. Can I offer you a glass of water before we hook up? Oh my God. I'm so fascinated.

I mean, first of all, I listened to your first show that you have recorded, which is with the Ars Nova, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I did one of my first shows with the Ars Nova. Did you know this? I didn't, I had no idea, yeah. Yeah, it was called Audios Pantalone's for reasons. I'll tell you in a second. Hi. Hi, how are you?

How are you? I'm good. Joel, have you been to Budmarsh before? I have not, no. All right, well, let me give you the tour of the menu. In the street foods, I always recommend the samosas. They're handmade each and every day. Under tikka and kabobs, I always like to recommend

the badass chicken tikka. That will be the most succulent, juicy, flavorful chicken you'll ever have in your life, I promise. And on the right side, the South Indian fish moili, very traditional flavors. However, instead of poaching the fish in a thin curry, coconut curry broth, we sear the seasoned fish, black sea bass, and we place it on top of a very

creamier version of the curry. Cool, very cool. And then of course you're gonna need some bread and some rice. curry, of course. Cool, very cool. And then of course you're gonna need some bread and some rice. Yes, of course. Absolutely. Something nice to drink. You said we should get like four to five dishes, you think? Yeah, my question is, is the ghost chili lamb vindaloo.

We were just talking about this. That's where my eye went immediately because I have a high tolerance for spice and I always like to push myself. Actually, in India, they don't even eat ghost chili. They just use it as a deterrent around crops and farmland. But we cook that with a ton of black pepper, serrano chili and red chili and the ghost chili.

It braises for like five to six hours with the lamb. So the lamb is super tender. You know, the capsaicin tenderizes meat. But also the spice of the ghost chili kind of softens. Cool. I'll just serve it with some mango lassi on the side. Great, great. I think you should definitely get it

because I want a little taste of it. Yeah, absolutely. Let's do the butter chicken, the vindaloo, some samosas. Well, let's do the fried fish for sure. Okay. And can we do the moiley as well? The moiley? Yeah, great.

Sounds delicious. Perfect. It's going to be adios, pantalones for me for reals. Oh. Do you eat a lot of Indian food? I do, I love Indian food. Yeah. And I really love vindaloo,

like it's actually my favorite dish. But as I'm getting older, the spice is really not working for me in the same way that I used to. I used to be able to breathe through it. I don't know if it's genetics or what, but I have maintained into my late 30s a pretty decent tolerance for it. But I agree, it is like, I've actually downgraded

from vindaloo to Madras a little bit, which I know is like the kind of step down spice level, but still spicy. But yeah, I was talking about the Ars Nova. So I was listening to a special, I mean, I'm sure you've talked about it so much since then, but like, I didn't realize you were adopted and lived with a conservative family in the Midwest.

And that kind of blows my mind just knowing who you are now. You're so outspoken. You're so comfortable in your skin. Yeah. And I think it's definitely a trauma response. That's probably part of that. And I think it was sort of a way for me to bounce out of that very quickly. I mean, I moved out when I was like 17. And so like after years of being homeschooled and very regimented and very controlled, I

think like I had an opportunity very young to experience freedom and that kind of development. And I just was sort of like, I'm never going back in the closet in any sense of the word, you know? And it's funny, because I do think now it all felt very radical at a certain point, and early in my career especially. And I think it's funny now,

because I kind of get dinged for it a little bit now. You know, like, well, you know, a lot of my work focuses around sex positivity and just sort of being out there and living out loud, and now I'm sort of like, everyone's like, oh boy, like, there he goes, talking about sex again, or something like that, and it just doesn't seem as cool as it did when I was early in my career.

I mean, do you think part of that is because you've also made a career out of talking about it? Oh, absolutely, yeah. When you, I think, find success, talking about a subject matter that you know a lot about and you've found an interesting way of presenting that idea, like I think then all of a sudden you sort of get pigeonholed in that,

thinking that's all they do. Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's funny because it was early in my career, all of the, like, stand-up comics that I knew who were, like, straight white guys mostly who had been in the scene for a while. And this didn't necessarily come from, like, a homophobic place necessarily,

but just sort of the reflecting how the industry worked at the time where they were like, don't go blue, don't talk about your sex life, it'll gross audiences out, you'll never get them on their side, they don't want to hear about gay guys having sex. And so I was told that. And so I went there because, in part,

because I was like, fuck that, I don't, you know, I want to talk about my life how I want to talk about it. And now the people who are telling me like, you might want to slow down on the sex stuff It's kind of gross are like gay men And so it's interesting how it's flipped in that way, right? Well, I know I want to go back to a little bit more of your childhood

But it's just coming off what you said like in your recent special psychosexual you divide the show into three acts, and it's kind of like this one act, the first act is a lot of your... It's identity-based. Yes, exactly, and then your second act is kind of more general, and then your third act is...

All sex. All sex. I mean, because the first, like after my Comedy Central special and the album that you heard at Ars Nova, and as I was slowly coming up, more and more the representation question came into play, and it was like, you know, I was celebrated as a representation for our community,

and then sort of like the respectability politics of it would come into play of, you know, I've often said like, some of my biggest detractors are not straight white guys, they're gay guys who look at my material and do that thing of like, oh God, like, you're making us look bad, is sort of the vibe in a lot of ways. And it was frustrating to me because I never set out

to be a role model or a representation of an entire community. I just wanted to sort of tell my story. And so putting the onus back on the absurdity of that. Like I often say to people who especially didn't like my movie or don't like my work, I'm like, find someone, there are many of us and rather than, you know, go after me or like take your frustrations out on me,

just focus that energy on finding someone who does represent your story or the way you are and support them because God knows like you're playing into, I think, an aspect of this industry that they kind of want you to, which is to focus on me and sort of like not focus on the fact that there aren't more of us. You know, like a wider array of experiences being put on stage. Yeah, no, for sure.

I mean, I certainly can relate to that. I mean, I played half of a gay couple on television for 11 years and it's like, I know, and also with the rise of social media. So I heard a lot of those same things, like you don't represent any of the gay guys I know. And for someone who basically created their character off of themselves, I mean, that character was basically just a shadow of me.

I was like, well, geez, that doesn't feel great. But it's that thing, you just, you can't represent an entire community. And you know, you also, one of the interesting things you said in your comedy special, which it gets a huge laugh, is you know, I realized I was gay before I was Asian. What was it like growing up in Chicago?

Did you have any other, were you surrounded by any other Asian kids or? I didn't meet another Asian person my age until I was 13. Really? Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah. It's crazy.

It was extremely isolating in terms of my racial identity. It was like extremely fractured and isolating. And I talked about this at length in the Fire Island press tour, but Margaret's show, All American Girl, was the first time I saw Asian people in the media that weren't an immigrant story or doing action martial arts. And it was really transformative for me to see that briefly on TV.

It was just like a normal Asian American family. And I had never seen that. And it was just, it was really tough for me. I don't know. And I think another thing is, is when you're growing up in an all white community, my parents were actually quite good about like early on being like, do you want to learn more about your culture? Do you want to learn the language?

Do you want to go to the Korean American center? Like they were like, they opened those doors. But when you are like eight or nine years old and you feel so different all the time from everyone around you, the last thing you want to do is indulge that and like make it, you know, I just wanted to feel as normal as possible.

So, and I really regret that now as an adult because I would have loved to early, like early learn the language at a time when it would be easier for me to learn the language. You know, and I really regret not taking them up on more of those opportunities. Right, right, right. It just, it blows my mind that you had no one.

And it was quite difficult, I think even, you know, in college when I would start to interact and meet more Asian people, Asian people my own age, it didn't necessarily alleviate the problem immediately because I think people would find out that I wasn't connected to my culture or my heritage and would sort of... And that alone is ostracizing.

Yeah, and they... Ostracizing. Ostracizing and I alone is ostracizing. Yeah, and they... Ostracizing. Ostracizing, and I... And ostracizing too, which is what an ostrich feels when it's feeling left out. Yeah. I felt very outside of both worlds for a long time until, quite honestly, I met,

I started meeting queer Asian people. In New York, mostly and some in Chicago. And that's when I really started to feel like I was starting to become a little bit more whole in terms of reconciling my racial identity and having it being very connected to my sexual identity too.

And I've done a lot of work since then and I don't necessarily feel that way. I feel very lucky. I've been very embraced by the Asian community since I've, you know, I've done a lot of my work. So it's changed a lot. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Joel tells me about the moment

he realized he was gay and funny, both at the same time. And the price you pay when your parents discover your teenage sex diary. Okay, be right back. Don't you just love it when someone looks at you and says, hmm, something's different about you. What were you up to last night? Well, no matter how late you were up the night before,

Lumify Redness Reliever Eye Drops can help your eyes look more refreshed and awake than ever. Lumify dramatically reduces redness in just one minute to help your eyes look brighter and wider for up to 8 hours. No wonder it has over 6,000 5-star reviews on Amazon. You won't believe your eyes, and you know you can trust them because they're made by the eye care experts at Bausch & Lohm and they're backed by six clinical studies. Eye doctors trust them too. They're the number one recommended redness reliever eye drop. The one and only Lumify is an amazing drop that will have people saying, something's

different about you, but in the best possible way. So check out lumafireyes.com to learn more. Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of How to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right. And what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better. Each week, my guests share three failures,

sparking intimate, thought-provoking, and funny conversations. You'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

["Dinner's On Me"] And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I know you said you kind of knew you were gay from a very early age. Before I? No, I mean, it's a joke, but it's also like, listen, I was four years old, four or five years old, at a family reunion in Alabama. A lot of my mom's side of the family is from the South. And because I was homeschooled and because, you know, I was aware that I was adopted, my parents didn't hide that from me, obviously, for obvious reasons, but it wasn't really until then that I was like, I looked around at like,

we were taking a big family photo and I was like, something's different about this. Thank you. Can't quite put my finger on it, but I knew even before then that I liked boys, basically. This is something from us. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, that's incredible.

Perfect. Also, I mean, your parents are evangelical, right? Yes, evangelical. I mean, that's a whole other level. Yes, it was really intense. The reason they homeschooled me is because they didn't want me learning about sex or evolution. And it was very, I mean talk about isolating,

I just didn't meet anybody really outside of my church for many years and they really just wanted to shelter me from everything. And I remember when they finally sent me to public school as a junior in high school, within a month. Was that something you wanted to do or was that something you decided? Desperately, from the time I was very young,

I begged them every year to send me to school because I just knew, I think from, you know, just like watching Saved by the Bell, I was like, I want that, you know? Yeah, yeah want that. And then within a month, basically, of sending me to public school, I came out of the closet, I hooked up for the first time, I drank for the first time,

I smoked weed for the first time, I did it all because you just can't keep someone under lock and key like that for their entire lives and then give them a little bit of freedom and not expect them to just go crazy basically. That must have been such an exciting time for you too to like, it must be such a, kind of like a, culture shock's the wrong word, but like.

No, no, that is the right word for it, it really was. Because so much of my frame of reference at that point is like, I had friends at church, you know, but meeting all different kinds of people and not, and having really my only frame of reference for how to conduct yourself from TV and media. I remember being shocked really when I found out that people would talk about each other behind their backs, like friends would do that. And in small ways that now I recognize

are kind of healthy and normal of like. Right, to vent. Yeah, to vent. It's like, we have therapy. Oh my god, like Emily's late again. Emily's always so late. And then to like, Emily shows up and I go, Emily, did you know everyone says that you're late

all the time? You know? I'm not really getting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you say you were like, you realized you're late all the time. You know? I'm not really getting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you say you were like, you realized you were gay at four, like I feel like I've always known that I was a queer kid, but I don't remember like a specific thing

other than like being excited about the international male catalog coming to the house. But do you like have like a specific memory? I do. In fact, it was also like, it's such a weird, like connected to so many things about my life, but I remember my brother and my sister,

I have an older brother or older sister, and we used to do like sleepovers in my sister's room on Fridays, like, and we all got to sleep in there, and like, whatever. And I just remember staring up at my sister's ceiling that was covered in these glow inin-the-dark stars and telling my brother and my sister that I liked looking at naked boys more than naked girls. And they laughed and laughed and laughed and thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever said. And

I just I remember two things in that moment, like them not taking it seriously and then thinking almost that it wasn't a big deal. And also the power of making someone else laugh for the first time. I genuinely remember that. So it was my joke. Yeah, it was my first joke. And it's so ironic that it really became sort of the most closely associated joke of my early career to me as well.

That's incredible. You have older siblings. I know your career to me as well. That's incredible. You have older siblings. I know your brother's gay as well. Have you guys connected with each other about what it was like to be raised in a family? No, my brother is very, he is kind of diametrically opposite to me in terms of how to be a gay guy. He is very conservative.

I don't think he's very interested in engaging with gay culture. Wow, interesting. Do you feel like you've repaired a bit of that after your father's passing? Yeah, no. I mean, I'm really grateful. My dad and I's relationship was really in the best shape it had ever been, probably ever,

since I was like a little child before he passed. And his passing really put a lot of things in perspective, I think, for my entire family about our relationship and has softened things considerably between all of us. Right, right. I mean, of course, every parent just wants their children to be successful and to be happy, and you're both. Yeah.

Did you feel sort of any support from them once you started doing so well in this career? Oh no. My mom and my dad, before you passed, they've never seen anything, they've never seen any of my work. They've never seen me on TV. Even though it's available to them

to look at without being invited to? The only thing my mother has ever seen me do is Celebrity Jeopardy. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Because that was a pretty safe bet for all involved. But I remember even when I booked Sunnyside, the very short-lived NBC sitcom that I was on, I called them one day and they were like, are you on a television show?

And I was like, yeah. And they were like, oh, because we saw a commercial and we thought we might have seen your face, but we weren't sure. And that's the most we ever talked about it. That's just so wild, because I mean, I mean, I also, my dad struggled with my sexuality in a sense, you know, come around and he's been very supportive.

He danced at my wedding and it was like, but it was a journey for him. I will say like, my parents had always been, when I started getting success, I mean they were so proud of me for paying off my student loans on my own. Isn't it funny that's what they're always most proud of. I mean I haven't taken a dime from my parents

since I was 17, but like they're very proud how far I made it and what I was able to accomplish on my own and. The comedy of you telling me that while 900 dishes landed our table was amazing this looks incredible I mean it all looks in so insane yeah so butter chicken butter chicken the South Indian fish molly this right here is the I brought five pepper hot sauce as well as some very traditional onion and chilies on the side. Just a little lemon and salt. And then you've got two packets of lime.

And in case the heat is way too much for you guys, don't make a blizzard. Thank you so much. I love that you have a bowl just of chilies. Listen, you sold yourself as a connoisseur. Yeah, no, listen. You've got to prove it now. Yeah, Listen, you sold yourself as a connoisseur. Yeah, no, listen, I did it to myself. You've got to prove it now. Yeah, you did it to yourself. We had similar, well, I guess I wouldn't say similar. We had coming out experiences that I feel like were both not necessarily of our own

accord. I was caught stealing gay porn when I was a kid. I had already been successful at stealing some of it, so it was already in my possession in my house, and my parents found that. And your mom or your dad found your journal, which by the way, kudos for you for keeping a journal. Like, that's very Jane Austen, you know?

Well, it was very much my undoing, because I'd always journaled like since I was a young kid, but by that point in my life, it really was just a place for me to like write down. There was like fully a section where I would just write down guy sticks that I've sucked or like literally a section that was like things I've lied to my parents about this week. And so I didn't-

I love that you had chapters categorized. They didn't even have to like sift through thoughts and feelings or dreams. No, no, no, no. I just, I made it so localized for them. They just had to like read a Buzzfeed list is how I always put it. Oh my God.

Yeah. So I was kind of an idiot. And now, I mean, Joel, were they like, were they separate pages? Were like, there was like highlighted at the top or like categorized? Yes, literally. A well-organized journal. And where was it hidden?

Underneath my mattress. Oh, that is so cliche. I know. And she and my mom to this day, my mom to this day claims that she didn't look for it, she just stumbled upon it. No, no, no, no, the thing with my mom, I was making her bed,

and I found these things underneath your mattress. Really? Well, and it's so funny. They probably weren't super surprised because there were a couple of moments like my dad did find gay porn on the computer at one point. And I remember telling him this is how I sold it was I literally looked at him and I was like, gotcha. I was like, this is like, this is a prank that all the kids are pulling on their their fathers

At school right now, like of course I if I were looking at it I I know how to get rid of it. You only found it because I wanted to see the look on your face When you found it like it's a it's a big like like I was like the funniest jackass, right? Right like sketch. I was so funny and I think my dad deeply wanted to believe that was true because he bought it supposedly. Gotcha. There were signs, there were signs from the beginning. Right, right, right.

But when you had that discussion with them, I mean, what was, I mean, I'm sure they were furious when they were reading about it. Yeah, it was couched in a lot of concern, both I think spiritually, but also like, you know, they assumed, I remember they admitted me to the hospital and made them give me AIDS tests, HIV tests. Wow.

It was a sort of a, it was about, you know, largely about the gay stuff, but it was like holistically very much about, you know, largely about the gay stuff, but it was like holistically very much about like. Right, the culture that's surrounding it. The way I was living and the lies and all of that. And it was really tough. And the long and short of it is that

it was a really toxic environment for the weeks following that, and then ended up in a huge blowout between my mom and I where she was sort of like, you know, because people often, and this is something I have to correct, they're like, oh, you were kicked out of your house when you were 17, it's much more complicated than that

because she basically gave me an ultimatum of like, you can either live the way we want you to live or you can leave, and I just called her bluff and I left. And you went to go live with a friend of yours? Yeah, I mean, I couch hopped and I slept in my car for bits and pieces of that time. But, and it's funny because you say friend, but I was absent from school a lot during that time

and it had gotten around how much I was struggling. This girl who I had one class with, choir, she was an alto, I was a baritone. And she was like this very popular jock who just happened to be in choir, homecoming queen. Like we were friendly in class, but certainly not friends. And because everyone sort of knew what I was experiencing, she turned around one day and was like,

if you ever need a place to stay, you can stay at my house for a night. And it was something she was really just saying to be nice. And then it was getting colder and I showed up at her house and I was like, hey, remember when you said that thing? And her dad, ironically enough, was the Methodist pastor in our town, quadriplegic. She had two younger brothers, elementary school age,

and her mom was like, we have a lot going on in this house. You can't just invite strangers to stay here. But then they, you know, she promised, and they respected that. So they were like, you can stay for the night. And I stayed and I talked to her mom that night. And then the next morning, they were like, come back for dinner before you leave. And what ended up happening is I lived with them

for the rest of my senior year. Sarah and I went from really not knowing each other outside of that one class at all to becoming very, very close. She's still my best friend to this day. I talk up almost every day. Love that. And they co-signed on my student loans.

They bought me a car for graduation. Their entire church bought me a car for graduation. Wow. And they really were instrumental in facilitating the reconciliation between my parents and I. Yeah. And it really changed my life because here's the biggest thing

that I took out of that experience was, you know, I had come out at 16, but even then I was so indoctrinated and so fucked up by religion that I was like, well, I'm going to hell. Like I'm going to be living this way and out loud, whatever. And so I'll enjoy it while it lasts. But then my ultimate destination is hell. And that was really dark. And I remember her dad caught wind of this and I was really apprehensive about living with a pastor after

everything I'd experienced, but he sat me down and he was like, hell doesn't exist. There's no biblical basis for hell. That is something that, you know, sex like Baptists have made up to scare people. And he certainly doesn't care about your sexuality and that is just not something you need to concern yourself with at all. And I remember like having someone in authority at the church, it was exactly what I needed to see here

because it would have been really dark had I gone forward with that mindset, I think. I think I would have been really self-destructive and it just would not have been healthy for me to live and think that way. And he really changed my life with that conversation. And now Sarah is also a pastor and she really takes after her dad in the sense that like they are not interested in evangelizing people to the religion.

She's interested in feeding and clothing the homeless and making sure that people are taken care of and the community is taken care of. She hosted a drag show at her church and, you know, sure that people are taken care of and the community is taken care of. She hosted a drag show at her church and, you know, it was not necessarily a popular decision, but she's always done things her own way. And like, it really is like it was the perfect transition out of the programming that I experienced up until that point. I'm so happy you had that.

It seems like people have been placed in your lives in really interesting ways to help bridge these gaps between your loved ones, which I think is kind of remarkable and wonderful. And I think, I don't know, I think I learned at a really young age an important lesson about understanding that your family can't be everything for you. Right.

You know, and not to quote my own movie, but you know, I spent a lot of queer people find out that you just need to find the people that can fill in the gaps. Yeah. You know? And like, I don't need my mom to support my career and be a cheerleader for me in that way.

I just never have. And yeah, and I found people who can do that for me. You know? Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Joel reveals how he and his boyfriend went from gay Disneyland hookup to L.A. long-term relationship, getting flustered by a certain Fire Island co-star, and what it's been like trying to reconnect with his conservative mom.

Okay, be right back. with his conservative mom. Okay, be right back. to be putting the likes of Tommy from Peaky Blinders, Cersei from Game of Thrones on the couch to learn why their behavior creates so much drama. So make sure you press the follow button to get new episodes as soon as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Shring the Box is a Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Are you the friend who can recognize anime themes sampled by J. Cole, MF Doom and The Weeknd? Don't worry, I'm Lea Alec Murray, and I'm also that person. I'm Nick Friedman. And I'm Lea President, and we invite you to take your sonic knowledge to the next level

by listening to our show, Crunchyroll Presents, The Anime Effect. Learn about how Yeji's latest album was actually born from her own manga. I started off with not even the music. I started off by writing a fantastical story. Or how 24K Golden gets inspired by his favorite opening themes. There are certain songs that I'm like, whoa, the melodies in this are really amazing.

No idea what bro's saying at all, but I'm jacking these melodies. And you know, I hear Megan Thee Stallion is also a big anime fan. So Megan, do you want to trade AOT hot takes? We're here. Listen every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts, and watch four episodes on Crunchyroll

or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Has the success of Fire Island, which is so wonderful by the way, has that been, first of all, let's back up. You sold it first to Quibi. The infamous Quibi, which you know, it's one of those Hollywood stories of like, it was such a bust. I mean, how long did it last for Quibi before it kind of disintegrated?

You know, it was in development for probably a year at Quibi. But this is what I will say, and we all give Quibi so much shit, but like, I don't think, I tried to sell Fire Island initially as a television idea. I wrote a pilot that was very similar to what it ended up being. No one wanted to even really meet on that project. It was really deemed unsellable by a lot of people. And Quibi was the only one that I think because they were taking some big swings as a new streaming platform, they were the only ones who really were willing to take a chance on it. And so, you know, without it starting at Quibi, I don't think Searchlight would have been interested in it

the way it did. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But do you feel like we're in a place now where things are getting better, or do you think it's like more of the same, or? Yeah, it does feel a little bit two steps forward and one step back in a lot of ways, because, you know, I'll be frank, we're back in a period right now

where it feels like they're a little more risk averse. I think you even read the statistic that there are less gay characters this year on television than there were last year. For the first time, I think it's going backwards, not forwards, and just even in the notes and the discussions that I would have with these networks and streaming platforms with Stephen Fire Island, you know. I love hearing these stories of when the path is thorny

because I feel like it's so inspiring to hear that when it was picked up by Searchlight and it was becoming a movie. You talk a lot about how like Margaret Cho came in and replaced someone and then Conrad Bicamora replaced someone else and all of a sudden it was like becoming more rounded out with an all-Asian cast. Yeah, no, I definitely, I made a lot of changes to the script.

The actor that I cast when it was at Quibi was African American for that part. The part that Conrad played. Conrad played, and I had made certain changes to not just have that be incidental and explore some of the more unique, I think, challenges that would come with that. And then when Conrad came in for the chemistry test,

seconds after he walked out of the room, I turned to Andrew and I was like, I would rewrite the script. It was top to bottom for him. First of all, Conrad's incredibly talented. He's also super cute. Yeah. So sexy. So handsome. So sexy.

And just- I heard he flustered you a little bit. He did. He did. And I wasn't- You know, I'll say this. I knew him from How to Get Away with Murder, obviously, and that was really all- I wasn't super familiar with his work outside of that. And I just- He plays such a sort of passive passive, like nerd, like soft.

And I just couldn't imagine him being Darcy. And then he came in and just knocked it out of the park and was just all of the things that he is in the movie. And it made that character really make sense and come into focus in a way that he just, it wasn't before. And so, yeah, I'm so grateful. What happened that flustered you?

I can't exactly remember. It was honestly just the way he looked at me. Yeah. And I just got very distracted and it's very easy to fall in love with him every day, I will tell you that. Yeah, yeah. Also, the center relationship

is obviously between you and Bo and Yang, your best friend, but also you and the Darcy character, which is, you know, full of romance. It's a Jane Austen romance. And at the time, you know, you had never been in a long-term relationship, or had you been in any relationship? No.

So you were writing about something that you didn't necessarily know too much about. What was that writing like? I mean, I'd always really considered myself something of a romantic. I mean, I grew up on rom-coms. You know, I'd certainly, like, had moments throughout my life where I felt like I was in love with someone

for weeks at a time until whatever would happen. And I made the decision early on to really center Bowen and I's relationship rather than the two romantic relationships. And I met my partner right before we went into filming. And as I was rewriting the script, it was really then that I made a couple of changes to the script based

on as I was falling in love with my partner now. And you know, I probably, I would do things a little bit differently even now as I've been in the relationship for we just celebrated three years. And I lucked out because of the nature of falling in love with someone over the course of a week in my movie. You know, it looks very different than if I was doing a more protracted story about falling in love with someone now or even a relationship.

Where'd you two meet? Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. Really? Yeah, yeah. Gate Disneyland. It was the first big party weekend. And we met out through mutual friends on the first night. And I took him home. And we watched the through mutual friends on the first night, and I took him home and we, you know,

watched the sunrise together on the beach and talked after we hooked up. And then the next day it was like, I saw him again and I was like, we both had very much the vibe of like, we know how these weekends work. Like, you don't have to continue to talk. You can find your next conquest.

Like, you know, I'm not going to glom onto you, you're not going to glom onto me. And he was very, again, like, you know, I'm not going to glom onto you, you're not going to glom onto me. And he was very, again, like, you know, this is not going to be a relationship. And I said, that's fine. Meanwhile, I'm talking about him on every podcast that I go on. And, you know, we just hung out like four to five times

a week and then continued on saying like, no, no, no, no, we're not going to be, we're not in a relationship, we're not in a relationship. we're not in a relationship. And then he basically wanted to go on like a date with someone else and I was like, yeah, go. And in that moment, I internally, my thought on it was like, I dare you to find someone that you connect with on this level and I know you won't.

And verbalize that, that was what was happening inside, that was the internal model. No, for me it was just like,, and I know you won't. You didn't verbalize that. That was what was happening inside. That was the internal model. No, for me it was just like, yeah, I'm fine with that. But it also kind of killed for you to be like, say exactly that. Yeah, no. That's the movie version. But ultimately, he could sense that I was serious.

And I gave him that space, and that was when he, the next day we became committed. Yeah, I love that. Your mom has not met him yet. She has in fact. She has. My dad passed away from COVID in 2021. Oh wow.

And I, the thing is, is even as we reconciled, it was one of those things where my sexuality just never came up again. And part of what upset me when my dad passed was I was just like, oh, like, I will never have an opportunity to talk to him about where we stand on that or how he would react or how he would feel. And I called my mom and I was sort of like, you know, let's talk about this. Like, what would you do if I brought a guy home?

And she, I think because of my dad passing, was sort of like, you know, we're not on the same page on that part of your life, but if you brought home someone that you loved, who loved you back, like, I would love them as much as I love Dan, who's my sister's husband. And that was like a huge moment for me. And I brought him home the following Christmas

and I never conceptualized, there was not a moment in my entire childhood, teenage hood, 20s ever that I conceptualized what it would be like to bring a guy home. And you brought this, you brought him home to the house that you grew up in? Actually, so my mom moved down the street. They bought a house down the street. My sister lives in a house that we grew up in. But yes, and

she was great and she loves him and she you know asks about him all the time and I think you know as I have sort of brought up the subject of marrying him that is when things get a little dicey. She changes the subject a little bit. I think she loves him and loves that I'm happy. And I think the Republican conservative in her is maybe that's a step too far. It's like, I don't know if she would be at our wedding or not.

And again, I don't need her to. And it doesn't hurt me that she might not be. But, you know, it's been a journey to get to this point in our relationship. So who knows by the time we actually get married, where she'll be then. Right. I feel for you because I just, I went through so many ups

and downs with my parents as well. And like, I'm so heartened by the fact that she has come around and she has met him and I have high hopes for her. Yeah, no, and I do too. I really do. And I think I give, and especially the older I get, her a little bit more grace. You spend your entire child's life

imagining what their future will be and creating this story and this narrative of what their life will be. And then the minute you come out, you set fire to all of that. I had to give her some time to figure out what her new image of what her ideal life for me would look like. The clock is ticking. Like she better, if she wants to be a part of that experience, then she better get there soon. But you know, I'm not going to hold a grudge against her if she doesn't get there in time.

Right. Right. It's very big of you. Yeah. Well, I think at this point, again, because my dad passed, We just don't have time to hold grudges like that. Yeah. What has your response been to Psychosexual? You know, mostly positive.

I got nominated for a critics' choice award, which I was very honored by. I'm really proud of that material and it took about six years for me to develop it and I know that they're sort of itching for when the next one is going to be, but I'll never be the kind of comic that releases a new special every year. It's just not me. I have needed this time to sort of like figure out what kind of comic I want to be in this new era of my life.

Do you have any ideas like where you want to fit in? Yeah, I think it's a lot less focused on the identity stuff. I mean, it's certainly always going to be running in the background of a lot of the things I talk about, but it's a lot less focused on me and it's a lot more observational, I think, and a little more absurd.

It's not as so much connected to my trauma as some of my earlier work is. But I think, you know, I mean, I know you love Tic Nataro just as much as I do and talked about her album, Liv, being so important to you. She actually was just on the podcast. I understand how that album meant so much to you as a queer person, just realizing what you can do with something that might not be super funny. She's talking about fucking cancer.

I've listened to that comedy special multiple times, trying to dissect how she makes such tragedy so funny. It's a gift. Thank you. And you do it really well. Thank you very much. I'm very excited to see what you do next. Joel, thanks for doing this.

I appreciate this. Are you kidding me? This was like one of the best meals I've had in a long time. Me too. Like honestly, one of the better conversations I've had in a long time. So I really appreciate you having me on.

Thanks for doing this. Thanks for driving to downtown. Oh my God. Dinner's on me. Thank you. This episode of Dinner's on me was recorded at Bod Mosh in LA. Next week on Dinners on Me, singer-songwriter Jason Mraz. We get together at Mel's Drive-In where, back in the day, he used to smoke cigarettes

and work on songs in the back of the diner. The self-described late bloomer tells me about his period of rebirth for him from coming out as bisexual to debuting a totally new sound for his dance album mystical magical rhythmical radical ride got it all that title and if you don't want to wait until next week to listen you can download that episode right now by subscribing to dinners on me plus as a subscriber not only do you get access to new episodes one week early you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.