Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - KATHY BATES — on leading 'Matlock' at 76 and Meryl Streep in her dreams

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Oscar-winning actor Kathy Bates joins the show. Over pizza and a caprese salad, Kathy tells me about who she wishes was her Oscar date the year she won, an iconic drink with Meryl Streep and why she's having the most fun she's ever had leading the Paramount + reboot of 'Matlock.' This episode of Dinner’s On Me was recorded at La Bettola di Terroni in Larchmont Village, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Today on the show, you know her from our Oscar-winning performance in the film Misery, her Emmy-winning role in American Horror Story, Coven, and her new leading role in the Paramount Plus series, Matlock. It's Kathy Bates. We actually rehearsed and did Vanities in what was an old burlesque house. When you say burlesque house, you mean? Where guys went in and watched women strip. Okay, okay, got it.

This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Kathy Bates' performance in Misery was one that I was probably too young to be seeing in theaters, but that's exactly where I saw it. I remember sitting in the theater watching that incredible, terrifying magic that she was creating on screen. It was the first time I saw a performance like that. It was sweet and warm one moment and maniacally evil and untethered the next. That performance scared the shit out of me, but it also completely

fascinated me. It was this complex high wire act that couldn't be put into a box. Even though she was nominated against iconic performances like Meryl Streep in Postcards from the Edge and Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, she walked away with the best actress Oscar that year. And it felt monumental to me, confirming that sometimes when acting is that truthful and unique, anything is possible. Now, it wasn't until later that I learned that Kathy Bates spent the early part

of her career developing roles in some of my favorite plays at some of the theaters that I would later work at myself. Although I've been introduced to Kathy a few times, I have never had the opportunity to spend more than 20 seconds with her at any given time. So when I got the email that she was booked as a guest on my podcast, I literally gasped. In fact, I think I replied to the email with the words,

gasping and fainting. Yeah, way to stay cool, Jessie. How are you? It's so good to see you. It's nice to see you as well. Thank you for having me. I took Cathy to La Bettula di Toroni in Larchmont Village, the newest sibling in the Grupa Toroni family,

which has been around since the early 90s with its roots as a small Italian grocer in Toronto. It was started by the then 25-year-old Cosimo Memeliti, an Italian-Canadian wanting to preserve the Italian cooking he grew up with. Three decades later, Cosimo has nine restaurants across Toronto and LA, including La Battola that he partnered with restaurateur Shurin Culles to open.

And sometimes you can spot Cosimo alongside the chef in one of his Toronto kitchens, Hand-Making Panzerotti. The food here is simple, but that's the point. It's about letting the ingredients sing, whether it's olive oil or San Marzano tomatoes. You won't find any funky reinventions here, but you will love the authenticity of the food and the company. Okay, let's get to the conversation. and the company. Okay, let's get to the conversation. Have you eaten here, Kathy? Yes.

Oh, you have? Good. The brand Zeno's very good. I was just looking at brand Zeno. It's always a good option. We can actually eat during this? Yeah, but that's the whole point. And crunch. Dinner's on me.

Yeah, you eat. We edit around chewing sounds. Yeah, it's great. Ooh, I might get a pizza. Get a pizza, I'll have a piece. Will you? I will, absolutely. I am so happy you're doing this.

You know I'm a big theater, like that's where I started my career, I was in theater. So I'm always so excited when I meet other people who that was what their roots were. I'm such like a fan of all of your early stuff that you, I wasn't even alive to see, but just knowing that you originated some of your early stuff. I wasn't even alive to see, but just knowing that you originated some of these great parts.

I was just really so lucky. In fact, I don't think, I know for sure, if it wasn't for Terrence McNally, God rest him, I wouldn't have had the career out here. I mean, because Bill Goldman saw me in Frankie and Johnny, he recommended me to Rob to play Annie Wilkes in Misery. Oh, is that right? Oh yeah.

Wow. So it was unbelievable. I mean, it was a wonderful part. I'm sorry I didn't get to play it in the movies, but. Well, yeah, I mean, and I know you've talked about this, but there's been some really like also crimes of the heart, you know, another great role that you got to originate out of town,

and you know, didn't get to do that on film either. And Night Mother, which was a real disappointment. And Night Mother, right? Susie Spacik did that. Wait, who did? Oh, Michelle Pfeiffer did Frankie and John. Yes, Gary Marshall directed it, and he wanted movie stars. Interesting. He really wanted glamorous people to be kissing. Right.

I was thinking, Frankie and Johnny's been revived a few times on Broadway. I've seen both of those productions with Edie Falco playing the role at one point, and then Audra McDonald. I wish I could have seen that. I mean, it's got to feel really special to also be a part of these shows that then go on to have these lives and great actresses like Edie Falco or Audra McDonald get to take over these parts. I mean, I know it's sometimes disappointing when obviously they go on to be made into

films, but isn't it also cool to know that you were part of making the blueprint for these shows that live on and are considered classics? It is, it's an honor to have created the role. And I've suddenly realized that that's what's happened with Matlock, I never thought of it in that way. And I realized just the other day when we were doing an interview that, wow, it's like creating a role completely from scratch,

that no one's ever seen. And you know, especially difficult because you don't have the four weeks of rehearsal, you know. I had to really dig deep to to do this part. Yeah. Hi, how are you? So welcome to La Vettola di Terroni. My name's Paulina. I'll be taking care of you this evening. Hi, Paulina. Thank you. Meet.

I think I'm going to have the pizza rustica. The pizza rustica? Okay, excellent. I'm going to do it. I'm going to have a piece of the pizza as well, but I'm going to do a caprese salad. Okay, excellent. And. Do you want to start off with any drinks?

We are the only ones on L'Archimonde with a full bar. You have what? We have a full bar here if we're filling in. The only one? The only one. The only one. The only one. Lurchmont with a full bar. You have what? We have a full bar here.

What kind of wines do you have? Do you have a Brunello? We do. Oh, I'd love a glass of Brunello. Oh yes. I'm gonna just do, do you have a spark? I'll just sparkling water and lime. Sparkling water and lime?

You've got it. Someone's gotta keep this train on the tracks. Correct. Well honey, you're driving anyway. Kathy, I love Matlock so much. I'm going to be really honest. It is a title that is often associated with people a few generations above me. Matlock is a show my parents watched and loved.

I was like, oh, they're rebooting Matlock is a show my parents watched and loved. I was like, oh, they're rebooting Matlock. And within moments, I was like, okay, they've got a very interesting perspective on this show. It's so stylized, it's so unique. It felt like I was in very good hands. And then I got to the end of the pilot and I was like, oh, this is what we're doing with this. And it's a really incredible twist.

I love it so much. It's so fantastic. You're so wonderful on it. Yeah. It's a huge hit. Massive. Massive hit. It was picked up for a second season

after the second episode aired, which is unheard of. How does it feel to be, you know, you're 76 now. Yep. On what looks to be a very big hit, number one on the call sheet. I'm sure it's a huge, incredible workload. I mean, what is that like? It's like, it's beyond my wildest dreams. I've been counseled by my PR lady,

not to say it's the best experience that I've had, but I can't help it. I can't help it. And it starts with Amy Reisenbach, who was, she's amazing. She's the president of the network. And Jenny Ehrman, I mean, to answer your question. Is Jenny the creator?

Jenny Ehrman, who did Jane the Virgin. Yes. Yes, she's the creator creator and she's just unique. I've never met a creator like this. The way her mind works, the only way I can say is like the Rubik's Cube. Yeah, I've heard you mention that before. Well, you know, it took me a while and then I said,

God, you know, the whole way you put this together is like a Rubik's Cube. And she said, exactly. She said, you know, the whole way you put this together is like a Rubik's Cube. And she said, exactly. She said, you know, I look at my son playing with his and she said, she wants people to be fooled. And I feel a real responsibility as being number one on the call shooting and an executive producer to go in with a lot of energy and, you know, to keep everything going and happy. I mean, I know actors talk about this all the time,

but truly, this is a unique experience for me. Absolutely unique. And I'm just pinching myself every day. Yeah. All of us. I mean, you could tell as an audience that it's a well-run ship and when things, and you know, people said this a lot

about the Modern Family pilot, and I really this a lot about the Modern Family pilot, and I really did feel it about the Matlock pilot as well, is it sort of felt like a show that had been on the air for years. Like it just clicks, you know, pilots are hard. You're introducing a lot of characters, you're introducing the whole world of the show, and sometimes it takes over explanation.

And specifically because you were a show that was already a known title, but nothing like the original show. You were actually working against what people might have already been perceiving about it. And it was so clear, so immediately. It just really felt simpatico, and it felt like it was immediately a well-oiled machine.

It's always been there. Yeah, it's always been there. Did you love doing 11 years? Oh my God, Kathy. I mean, you understand this. I guess when you're doing a play, you can do that for quite some time and it feels like a family,

but you don't really always get that in television and film. I don't know, sometimes it feels too fleeting and too fast. So to have something that feels like a real full-time job, doing the thing that I love doing more than anything in the world, being an actor, was such a gift. How many episodes did you do every year? Well, it sort of fluctuated.

At the very beginning, it was like 24 or maybe even 26. I know. Oh my 26. I know. Oh my God. I know. Well, you're doing 18, aren't you? We did, yeah. And I think, yes. And I think that's all I can say.

Yeah. Because there's a surprise when you get to the end of the season. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. Um, well now I'm curious. But, um, yeah, 24. And then I think the final season we did 16

because they wanted 24 episodes, and we said, I think we said 14, and then they settled on 16. But we were able to finish shooting the series two weeks before the pandemic. So had we done their original order, we wouldn't have been able to finish. I felt like that was the universe smiling on us

and saying, because if I had not been able to have closure with that 11-year show, it would have been horrible. Yeah. Or to like finish it on some weird, you know. Yeah, God's way. Zoom thing. God's way.

So I'm happy it ended the way it did. Oh, here it comes. Oh my God, Lord. That was fast. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. This is you. Thank you. This is you.

Thank you for cutting it for us. Of course, no worries. Now is this the rustica that has the... This is the rustica, yep. It's going to have our tajasco olives. Oh, it has the sausage. Oh, wonderful. And a panino on there as well. Gorgeous.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kathy tells me about feeling a disconnect with her family after leaving home, and we hear who she wishes she had brought to the Oscars the year she won for misery. Okay, be right back. So picture this. You're running a business and suddenly you realize, oh no, you need to hire someone, like yesterday. You've been there, right? But don't panic, I got you covered. Just use Indeed. Why

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Make Whole Foods Market the home for your wellness routine. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. What I was gonna say about the show, one of the themes I love so much about it is this idea that when you become a certain age, you do feel isolated and you feel invisible. And it's something that, you know, your character Maddie uses to her advantage.

But I'm also curious, I mean, I feel like you've spoken a lot about the sort of renaissance of your career in the, you know, with Ryan Murphy, you know, using you in his American Horror stories. But was there a point where you felt where you yourself were ever invisible or not being given opportunity or... Yes, you know, Ryan really rejuvenated my career. And right before he gave me the opportunity to do the show, I had breast cancer and Harry's Law had been canceled rather unpleasantly, that's all I'll say.

And so when that happened, when that summer happened, it was very, it was degrading. I felt kind of humiliated. I felt like I'd let my calves down and had never been through an experience like that. And then breast cancer, which does run in my family, so I wasn't surprised. But it was more painful than I thought it was gonna be. And I really felt like, is my career over?

Yeah. So that's been hard. And I also think being born to older parents, I saw my parents go through old age more than seeing them or spending time when they were young. My sisters, who are 9 and 15 years older than I am, had a very different experience with them. Yeah.

But I saw them go through old age, and my father often said, I don't understand why you spend all these years learning all of this stuff, and then you just go, and that's, and then all of that that you learn just goes away too. And then all of that that you learn just goes away too.

So seeing him feel old and useless, and I remember he had tried to figure out, this is so sad to talk about, Jesse. Do you wanna talk about this? We don't have to talk about it anymore, but I think it's true for so many of us when you watch your parents pass, and I'm doing it, you were much younger when your parents passed than I am, when I'm now, my parents are getting old and, you know, sick. But for me, it definitely feels like, okay, how am I going to live the rest of the years

that I'm lucky enough to live in a way that, you know, I guess you want to live differently than your parents did, just health-wise, but also with more joy, maybe. I mean, I sometimes just feel like I want to— not that my parents weren't joyful, but you want to really embrace every day that's given to you. You must, because at the end you'll be saying, is this all there is? Right. Well, and it's interesting when you said that, you know, and you learn all these things and then you just die. I feel like for me,

and maybe this is just because I'm optimistic and I'm 49 years old, but like I feel like I'm collecting things and I'm going to be full when I pass. And like I'm hopefully full of wonderful things, wonderful experiences. And you know, you always say you can't take it with you and that's part of it,

but like it's okay I I think, to fill up as much as you possibly can, and obviously share these stories with your loved ones. Well, that's like to spend time with people. I don't mean to interrupt you, but, and I'm sure you already know this, but the conversations that you're having with people and the time that you spend with your loved ones,

instead of going and buying clothes, save your money and go on a trip, or spend time with your family ones, you know, instead of going and buying clothes, save your money and go on a trip or spend time with your family. And how many kids do you have? Two, they're young, they're four and two years old. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Boy and girl or?

Two boys. Oh, great. Yeah, they're very sweet. Well, that's, your life is gonna be. Right. I mean, when did you lose your parents? How old were you? My mom was the only one that was alive when I won my Oscar, so it would have been 90.

She was there to see that. I love that. I was going to ask if they were able to see your great success. She was at home with my sister. She was in her 80s then, and in retrospect, I wish I had brought her instead of my fiance. Who am I? Who am I? Well, you're divorced. Who am I? Which later, well, I can't blame him for that, but whom I forgot to thank. And along with forgetting to thank my mother enough.

Do you know what, did your sister tell you like what her response was when you won? I don't recall if she did. It's so strange. I think when I left home, suddenly my work and the people that I met at school became my found family. And I was so focused on my career. It was two very different worlds.

And I think also because having older parents, I mean, it was no fun for any of us during the 60s. My dad was born in 1900. So, you know, there was a lot of turmoil, I think, in the house because of that age difference. But those two worlds have always been so separate. Has it been that way for you? Absolutely, 100%.

I think a lot of it was because neither one of my parents were in the entertainment field at all. My dad is a retired microbiologist. My mom is a retired RN. They both support the arts and love that I would do it, but there was no connection there. I remember sitting in the living room the night of the Tony Awards and just begging everyone to stop talking so much, I was watching the Tonys.

They weren't interested in those things. And so I just felt like when I did go to New York and I started doing theater and I went to acting school, like this was the place where I was blossoming and becoming myself. So of course I was more comfortable around those people that were making me feel more like myself, the person I felt like I was inside. And you know, it was always tricky when you would go back home and feeling small again

in a way and feeling like under the thumb of this past version of yourself, it was a very complicated, I definitely felt like it was two lives. And I'm sure a lot of people feel that way with their, with their adult lives and their childhood lives, but... Well, it's, I'm glad someone else feels the same way I do about the two lives bifurcated, you know. 100%, that's what resonates with me. Because I think once after I had a success in New York,

they said, aren't you ready to come home? But they didn't understand that I never would. That I too just knew, even though I had a hard time at first and it took a lot of starts and stutters and stops to get there, but I was determined. And like you say, it was your home. You found your home. And you certainly don't make a ton of money doing theater.

Nope. How did you support yourself in those early years when you were doing plays? Well, you know, we had this amazing experience when we were in New York. On the Megazillatron, they did. What is a Megazillatron? In Times Square.

Those huge, huge screens. The big screen in Times Square, yeah. For 15 minutes, they put my picture up and reviews. What? Yes, oh I have to show you pictures of it, it's amazing. For which show? For Matlock. Oh for Matlock, oh okay, I thought you were talking about back when you were younger. Oh, for Matlock, oh, okay, I thought you were talking

about back when you were younger. Oh, back then in theater, sorry, sorry, sorry. I was like, for Frankie and John? No, I know, are you kidding me? Now I'm with you. So, and I realized when I got there that not far from that was where I went to get a job as a temporary, a temporary, you know.

I did two jobs too, yeah. And I ended up at the Museum of Modern Art working after a while. They started to chat with me about it. Did I want to study to be an accountant? I just, I put the brakes on, it's like, errr, you know? I literally packed up and went home and I thought, okay, what do we do next?

So. Yeah, yeah. What for you though, Where did you start out? I started out in theater. I got my equity card actually pretty easily. I was very lucky. I did Shakespeare in the Park and the show was a big success in the Park and then eventually transferred to Broadway where it erupted closed. It only lasted a few months on Broadway and then I didn't do a lot for a while.

I had a, it was a rough go, you know, trying to find. What did you do? I waited tables. You know, I worked at a gift shop. I worked at a gift shop and I worked in coffee shops. And that was, and I would do little regional theaters. I would do off-Broadway things. But there was times when the paychecks that you would I would do off-Broadway things. But there was times when the paychecks

that you would make doing these off-Broadway shows were not as good as the unemployment. And I would really have to think, do I want to eat or do I want to grow my artistic self and take these great parts? And there was times when I was really nervous about it because I would, to be taking work would actually mean

a pay cut because my unemployment was more. Oh my goodness. Did you have moments between these, because you had very successful outings in New York, you know, Frankie and Johnny and- And even before that, you know, we were, we started, we did Vanities, which was a play that was very successful off-project.

Jack Hefner received the, yeah. He went to school with me, and it was a play that was very successful off-rocking. Jack Heffner, is he the? Yeah. He went to school with me and it was directed by Garlum Wright, God rest him, who went to school with us, brilliant director, who later went on to the Guthrie to run that theater. But we actually rehearsed and did Vanities in what was an old burlesque house.

When you say burlesque house, you mean? Where guys went in and watched women strip. Okay, okay, got it. Just want to make sure our listeners don't. Yeah, there were these old derelict places and we rehearsed in this kind of crummy attic and there was no heat in it. And so we really were pioneers there.

And when we were very successful with that, I didn't have to go to unemployment anymore. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kathy tells me about her complicated eight-year relationship with legendary playwright Terrence McNally, her dream about Meryl Streep, and an iconic Oscar moment with her. Okay, be right back.

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From Sony Music Entertainment and Waveland Road, this is Deadly Fortune. Listen wherever you get your podcast. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Would you, I love Terrence McNally. I've always loved him, but I never really got to work with him much. And he's just such an iconic playwright. What, like, what are your memories of working

with him on Frankie and Johnny, which was one of his biggest successes? I loved working with him. I always felt that Frankie and Johnny should have been one act. Okay. Like an hour and a half. And Paul Benedict directed it. F. Murray Abraham was the first Johnny. And I enjoyed playing it. But then when I left to come out to LA, Terrence was very upset.

And he would make fun of me because I'd say I want to concentrate on my film career. And he was very possessive of his muses. And then he wrote an article for the arts section of the New York Times that was not very kind to me. Oh, no, what did he say? Yeah, and this was right after I moved out to L.A. in the 80s. And do you know that we didn't speak for about 18 years? Really? Yeah. When do you know that we didn't speak for about 18 years?

Really? Yeah. When did you reconnect with him? At his 80th birthday party. Oh, wow. He was beautiful that night, you know? It was good to see him that last night. Did it feel like there was repair there or forgiveness?

How, I can only imagine that after 18 years you said, there's got to be a sense of like, why were we even fighting in the first place? No. There wasn't? How did you broach? Did you, how was, how was it like, obviously you're invited to his 80th. We don't broach it. I didn't broach it.

We just hugged each other. Okay. Okay. You know, there were no apologies or anything and, but it ended on a good note. And I think he passed away not long after that. Yeah. It was a big loss. He was a very unique voice.

Huge loss. Huge loss. I'm glad that you had the opportunity to have him as a friend. It's always the people we admire the most that I feel like we have really complicated, complex relationships with. Listen, I remember him coming into my dressing room one night and seeing a script by another playwright. Wow.

On my table. And he was not happy. Really? I remember now sitting next to a woman, I can't remember her name. I told her my story, she said, oh, we all had a Terrence story. Yeah.

I love that though. You know, you're part of history, truly. You know, I also consider myself a character actor, which I know you do as well. I know you've talked a lot about, you know, having the great success of Misery, obviously, but playing a character that is such an outsider and then having difficulty sort of figuring out

what the next steps were. And, you know, even though you've had great success, huge success, you're running an Oscar for this role, to sort of feel like, okay, now what? And like not feeling like people didn't know what to do with you. Yeah, when I look back at my career, I feel like it was stepping stones.

It wasn't a bridge. You know, at the very beginning, there were many times when I thought, I don't know if I wanna do this, and then a job would come along. The roles that I had to play, I wasn't the same as Meryl Streep. I wasn't as brilliant as she was in order

to be able to do the amazing roles she did and the transformations that she made. And so when you start out and you have those opportunities, each one is so different, it's so difficult that you build your strength. It's like hours in the air. And I always think of Dolores Claiborne as my Meryl Streep role when I was really able to do that. And I think if I had had more

of those I would have developed into a better actress than I am now. And hopefully that's what I'm gonna be able to learn with Matlock. Well there's a few things that you just said that struck me. First of all, I mean, you might get sick of hearing this, but I do feel like you're one of the greatest actors of our time. So to hear you say, like, I could have been a better actress is actually super comforting to hear, because I love that you have this and saying like Matlock is maybe teaching me some of these things, that you have a deep desire to never be done.

Oh, no, I don't think that we are. That's incredible. I don't think we are. Do you? I don't I never feel are. That's incredible. I don't think we are. Do you? I never feel that way, but I feel like there are people who are like, they've achieved a certain level and it's sort of like there's no room for growth. I think it's such a disservice to yourself.

No, not at all. I had the privilege years ago of giving Anthony Hopkins his Oscar for Silence of the Lambs. And so when he won through the father, I thought, you know, I'm gonna get in touch with him because I'd read some of the interviews that he'd done about how he changed the method of working

and that he had started out marking his scripts up, which I still do now, and really digging in and writing all these kinds of notes and stuff. But then as he got in later in life, he says, now he's learned his lines so well, like the back of his hand. And then he just has fun. Plays. But then he does say he has to throw in a little of that magic,

which makes him Anthony Hopkins. So I wrote him and he said, yes, that's what I've been doing. Because I was getting ready to start this, and I was terrified. And so no one doesn't ever stop. As an artist, you're always thinking about it. And you know, don't you feel that? Do you feel that? I love that.

That's why I like doing it. I love being a student of it. But I guess it's just always when you look at someone who's accomplished as you are You know you sometimes think well, what else is there to learn? Let me put it to you this way. Go ahead Think about this train scene in Sophie's Choice. Yes Where she is acting an incredibly emotional scene that these two children in Polish. Thank you very much.

I could never do it. Yeah. I could never attempt doing it. So when I see performances like that or when she played Margaret Thatcher, and it was a complete transformation and I watched this, I'm thrilled by it. Yes. I'm envious of it.

I get it. And I remember having a dream, I have to share this with you, it's really kind of, I remember in this dream, I was in a tub, empty, but I was in it, and I was for some reason wearing Jackie's dress from the assassination, the suit. Okay, okay. And Meryl was outside the tub,

and I was looking up at her, and I had had a stroke, and I said, you win. Because I think up until that moment, I was comparing myself to her, and then when I realized, no way, Jose, could I have done these roles, that there was this sudden moment in my life when I had no way, Jose, could I have done these roles.

That there was this sudden moment in my life when I had to rethink, what does that mean? I'm wondering, I mean, you literally were nominated against Meryl Streep for, she was in Postcard from the Edge, you won for Misery. Do you think any of that is part of this dream? Like, did you feel? Maybe, I never thought I'd ever made that connection.

You were in a competition and you did come out on top. So you won in that version, but in this dream, it's just, it's very interesting. Also, we were both nominated the year that Catherine Zeta-Jones won. For Chicago, right, yeah. And I forget what Meryl was up for.

We were both for supporting. You were about Schmidt, I think, right? Yeah. I think that was it. And she sailed by during the commercial break. Said, come on, we're going to the bar. Meryl said this? Mm-hmm.

So we went to the bar. It was a very Joan Crawford, Betty Davis moment. She slammed her evening bag down on the bar and said, I'm having a vodka, straight, neat or whatever. And I slammed my evening bag down. I said, I'm having what she's having, you know, and we tossed it. It was a moment. It really was a moment when I could see we turned and toasted each other and I could

see in her eyes and I'm sure she could see in mine, how we wanted it so badly. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. That we thought, oh, we're so close, you know? But I've just admired her so much, and I'm in the trajectory that her career has had, and the amazing roles that she's done.

And like I say, it's hours in the air, and you learn from everything. You do and that's why I'm so thrilled about Matlock because my friend Philippe Benard, who was an actor years ago, said his acting coach told him that you have this chest of drawers and that you have in this drawer something that you use for the part and then this bit. And I have an apothecary's chest now. And I get to use the whole damn thing for Matlock.

And that's what's thrilling to me because I do hope we run forever. I mean, it's a huge undertaking. You have incredibly long scenes. Some of these scenes in the courtroom, you have so much dialogue. I mean, do you have a trick that helps you? By rote, which means you repeat it over and over and over and over and over again. You learn to learn your lines so well,

like the back of your hand, so that you can focus on the other actor, because you can only think about one thing at a time. So the method is you start by very simply repeating what the other actor is saying. You have to focus enough to know exactly what they're saying. And then of course you go on from there. But just, I mean, I find with theater, I can always get to that point, but with sometimes in with camera work, when you have such limited rehearsal, I really panic about the truncated time

that you have before having to produce a performance. So what I loved about Six Feet Under was that there were theater actors. Like, Lauren Ambrose was really, really young. And I also sat right by the camera. I didn't sit back at Video Village. In fact, I have an Apple box at home that the Gryps made for me, and they stained my name and the show and everything.

But I liked sitting under the camera so that I could really see the performance. And I remember being... I was so interested. Yeah. to really see the performance. And I remember being, yeah, I remember being right with her on one scene that we had Peter Krause and her sitting on these washing machine and the dryer and she's really upset. And I just kept coaching her through the next bit

and the next bit and the next bit till I could get her to the level that I wanted her to be at. So you have to storyboard all of that. Yeah, of course. You're having this incredible moment in your career. It's really been remarkable to see just how happy you seem as well.

Yeah. No, I feel so lucky, Jesse. I really do. I just, I don't know how this all intersected at this time. You deserve it. We all deserve it. But you, you're a good person and you're a fabulous actress and you deserve this. Well, I've certainly worked for a long time.

That too. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at La Betula de Toroni in Larchmont Village, California. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch.

Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dale Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.