Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Kyle MacLachlan

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Kyle MacLachlan, star of “Sex and the City,” “Twin Peaks” and “Showgirls,” joins the show. Over a tomato tartine and nicoise salad, Kyle tells me about working with surrealist filmmaker David Lynch, his friendship with ex-girlfriend Laura Dern and Elizabeth Taylor’s iconic demand during “The Flintstones.” This episode was recorded at Zinque in West Hollywood, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We all have busy lives these days and don't want to waste a day of recovering after a night out. As you get older it just seems to get longer and feel worse and then all the things you plan to do that day get pushed to the side and now I have kids and I have to get up extra early for them and oh it's a nightmare. Z-biotics is the answer we've all been looking for. The probiotic in z-biotics was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut.

It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. This is a proactive solution that wards off feeling miserable the next day instead of a reactive approach like drinking electrolytes or eating greasy food. Enhance your mornings with Zbiotics. Go to zbiotics.com slash jtf to get 15% off your first order when you use JTF at checkout. Thank you Zbiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times. After filming all night in the water, trying to keep Elizabeth from drowning, falling off my lap, going backwards and drowning.

I was like, I don't need to go to the gym for a week. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Kyle McLaughlin is an actor who has really cemented himself as an iconic cult favorite. I mean, look at his body of work, Twin Peaks, Showgirls, Sex and the City, all cult classics. His fan base is a rabid and loyal one.

And I think part of that reason is because he commits 100% to every role he plays and then goes that extra 10% to figure out how we can twist his characters a bit off center. That extra 10%, I call it the McLachlan touch. Not only does he bring that touch to his film and TV work, but now we're seeing it in his latest foray in podcasting. His new show is called Varnum Town and it's a narrative true crime story that has some real S-Town energy. Varnum Town is the actual name of the tiny

North Carolina town of 300 people and it's because most of the people there have the last name Varnum. It's just so cool to hear a bit of Agent Dale Cooper and Kyle as he dons his investigative journalist hat and knocks on doors piecing together a fascinating story that involves cocaine, shrimp boats, and Pablo Escobar. It's very intriguing. Do you want to scoot in over here? Yeah. Thanks for doing this. Oh, my pleasure. What a fun spot. This is my first time here. I brought Kyle to Zinke in West Hollywood. The French-inspired cafe is named for the

zinc's top bars that could be found all over Paris. Oui, oui, monsieur. As someone who enjoys a damn fine cup of coffee, hi Twin Peaks listeners, I thought a cafe would be the perfect spot for Kyle. Plus, he's such a cultured man between his longtime collaboration with David Lynch to his wine label, to his latest foray in narrative true crime. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

So I'm riding around listening to Farnham Town and I'm seeing like posters for the new Dune. Oh my God. And then somehow like blue velvet popped up on my classics to watch. I was like, why is like Kyle infiltrating my life through like every... We're connected. Every turn I'm making. But I was, as I was like looking at like, you know, these billboards for Dune and then also listening to your project, I was like, God, I mean, you have had,

your career is so eclectic. The scope of your work is really impressive. If you stay around long enough, you know, I guess you're gonna get known for a couple of things. Right, right, right. Thank you very much. It is fun, today being my birthday too, which is sort of- I know, happy birthday. Thank you.

It does give you, I take time to sort of look back, a little perspective, which I don't do a lot, but, and I'm kind of stunned that I started in film work at 23 with Dune, the first Dune, and I can't really believe that now I hear I'm 65 and it's 42 years later and I've been doing it for as long as I have. I feel like I'm pulling the wool over everybody's eyes for 40 years.

I love it so much and I have such a good time. And I love the, you know, it's the people. Even today, meeting you, we're in the same business. I don't know you prior to this, but it's really nice to be able to share something that we both love, you know, which is that creative process. Well, and you started off doing something that I also love so much, which is theater. I'm a theater boy.

Around what age did you start doing that? Teenage years, so I was kind of the same age my son is now, like 14, 15, 16, I started. And it was such a great social activity, particularly there were a lot of girls running around and I was very interested at the time. So this is an easy way to be around them for a period of time so you could strike up a conversation and you didn't have to be too shy. So did you have any early stage kisses? Yeah. Yeah, I have a tendency to fall in love with my leading lady. That finally I finally outgrew that. I've with my leading lady. I finally outgrew that.

I've noticed that. Yeah, I finally outgrew that. It took a while. But yeah, when I was in high school, I had actually really one of my very first strong relationships with the actress who was opposite me. What was the show and what were the roles? It was Oklahoma. And funny enough, that was also, I know I have this wine business, and her family was

actually in high school, not to get anybody in trouble, but we would actually be allowed to have a glass of wine with dinner, to appreciate it with a meal. I thought it was a really civilized, and I felt very grown up. And that was the appeal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that, like that started off a string of dating your lady ladies. But then you went to college for theater. So I went to college for, well, actually,

I went to college to try to figure out what I wanted to do, honestly. What were your other options? There weren't a lot. My dad is a stockbroker, and he didn't sort of push me into that idea of business, but he said, you should at least take a business course or two. I took an economics course, and I think I barely passed.

But I always had like one drama course that I took along with that. So I had an acting course. My first acting course that I took in college was a weird one. So we were all in a circle, sort of laying on each other's backs, listening to each other breathe. And I said, this is kind of wacky.

I said, I'm not sure if this is me. And there was another girl who said, no, no, no, no, you gotta go take this class over here. Don't do that class. This is the teacher you want. I was like, okay, thanks. So I transferred over. And that was more of like what I would imagine.

You have a script and you have working on scenes. You're not breathing on people's bodies. Bodies, I was like, I don't know if this is for me. So I would just take one course and then, and try to muddle through the rest of the way. And then gradually I sort of gave over. I said, you know what? I think this is what I'm supposed to do.

So I graduated after three years with a BFA in acting, trained to do repertory theater, pretty much. Did you do any theater in Seattle or up in the Washington area? I did. I did, yes. But I left school. I went to work at the Shakespeare Festival in Ashland, so the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, summer of 82. And I played Romeo on the main stage. And then I left from there to go work in Seattle at a theater

that sadly is no longer there, the empty space theater. And we did a new adaptation of Tartuffe. Hello. Hello. Hello. We're just talking about Tartuffe. Good, you know, as you do. As you do. Tartuffe, Hello. Hello. We're just talking about Tartuffe. Good, you know, as you do. As you do.

Tartuffe, do you know? Do you know Tartuffe? Well, Kyle knows it very well. He's... Were you in a play in the Mordièvre? I was in the play, not in the original French. We were in an adaptation. Or adaptation, I guess, yeah.

And I played the Dami, yeah, the son. Not everybody knows Tartuffe here, so... You two might be the only two. We are the only two. Tell us about your menu. Zinke? No, no first time. Zinke West Hollywood, it's about French, Parisian, bistro inspired.

So everything is farm to table food. We have a bunch of options. It goes from a tuna tartine. Do you guys know where the tartine is? Yeah, so Yeah, so it's it's an open-faced sandwich I'm looking at the tomato avocado One I think that really appeals to me. What do you think? I'm gonna do the asparagus nicoise

I'm gonna do the asparagus nicoise. Wow. They do have this French ham aged swish cheese sandwich. The ham and cheese? Oh my god, that looks really good. Why don't you get that? That's classic. We'll get a sandwich.

I have a cup of coffee, please. Sure. I love that, I'll join you in the coffee. I'm gonna make you say it too. Yeah. Damn fine coffee and hot. I'm sure it's gonna be hot. Yeah, I got it in. Perfect. Okay, we're both having damn good cups of coffee. Perfect. I think gonna be hot. Yeah, I got it in.

Okay, we're both having damn good cups of coffee. I think I'm hot. Perfect. I like mine just black. Thank you. Yay. Thank you very, very, very, very much. So it was Tartuffe that this casting director saw you in? No, she didn't even see the play. The late Elizabeth Lustig, she was on a tour. Kind of a smaller city tour.

They were actually out looking for an unknown. They were up in Seattle looking for talent. They came all the way up to Seattle for an unknown and they found me. And I auditioned for her in the hotel room in a Four Seasons Olympic on video. And she had the video cassette. Yeah.

Big tape and she was so kind, French as well, the people that were here. And she just, and I was so curious, I said, how does this work? Because I knew nothing about film. I was solely theater. And she said, well, we take it down, and we show, and maybe the thing.

And I said, and what do you think my chances are? I was like, you know, and she was like, well, pretty good. She was very honest with me. She said, I haven't really seen anybody. Now I'm going to San Francisco, so someone could come in. I said, okay, well, see what happens.

And that's how it started. It was really meeting David Lynch and the connection that we had. I screen tested for him, of course, and everything, but I think he kind of had his heart set on me after we met. We shared a common love of the Pacific Northwest. He's from up there as well. We had a lot of things in common,

and I think he just felt, well, we felt comfortable with each other, actually. So, made sense. What's the age difference between you two? Is it about 10 years? Yeah, roughly 10, maybe a little more, maybe 12, 10 or 12 years. Right, so he's not really old enough

to be a father figure, but like, also not young enough to be a contemporary. Well, kind of an older brother that maybe you didn't know that well when you were growing up. Yeah, I just, what was your first meeting with him like? I mean, he's such, obviously he's such an eccentric person from what I understand,

he's actually not super eccentric and- He's very kind. Yeah. And fun, and a good sense of humor, and not at all, at least in the meeting, that he seemed to be interested in talking about the movie or the role or anything. It was more just...

This is for Dune. Yeah. You know, where are you from? And I grew up there and I grew up in Yakima. Oh, we talked about Missoula and Yakima, some of the things we did when we were kids. Wait, what about Missoula? So I think he grew up, was born and...

I was born in Missoula. No kidding. I think Lynch was also born in Missoula I think I might be right because I feel like there's a small list of people that I know he lived there Okay, but whether he's born there. I'm not exactly I only lived there for a year my first year of my life, but You have fond memories but like yeah, I Mean what I've heard is that he's

But like, yeah, I mean, what I've heard is that he's a very sort of like kind and down-to-earth person and it's just, you know, the art that he creates is so specific and tonally so not, it doesn't blend in with any other tone. No, it's his own thing, you know. And I read recently that people consider him the premier American surrealist filmmaker. And I think that there's a lot of truth to that. I think so too, yeah. You know, I'm not a huge film buff, honestly.

I don't know as much as I probably should know more, but I've been fortunate enough to work with, I think, one of the greats. Oh, by far. Just so lucky, so grateful, so lucky. Not really understanding that when I started, just kind of where he stood on the scheme of things. Well, and where was he at his career at that point? Had he done anything huge,

or was that also sort of his first big thing? Well, Eraserhead, of course, had come, the film he shot when he was at AFI. And then, I think, I believe Mel Brooks saw that and offered him The Elephant Man. So The Elephant Man became his first kind of break, I guess, maybe, which was a magnificent film. John Hurt, Anthony Hopkins, just a wonderful,

compassionate telling of this man who had this amazing, unusual deformity. Then Elephant Man led to Dune, honestly, which it couldn't be a greater departure. The giant lumbering beast of a movie, you know, and I think we all kind of got lost in it. I had a great time. I was, I had no idea what I was doing. I can imagine, what, 23? 23. Oh boy. So you're being, you're the lead of a huge sci-fi.

But no real concept that I'm the lead or the pressure. I had no sense of the pressure. I was just like, you know, I'm just gonna do this role. You know? Because you had nothing to compare it to? Nothing to compare it to. I'd never seen a film, the second film script I ever read was Blue Velvet.

And David gave that to me when I was on, when I was filming Dune. So really no, you know, no business being there. What an introductory course to filmmaking. Yeah, it was amazing. Thank you so much for my coffee. And I had just a lovely, lovely group of people. Mostly European. I have to have a photo of you drinking a cup of coffee.

Oh yeah, here we go, ready? Okay. This is, you want a video, Joanna? Joanna's happy. There it is, Joanna wants a video of, okay, yeah. I'm also drinking my cup of coffee. Very good.

Is it damn good coffee? It's damn good coffee. Is it hot? It's hot, and hot. Now you have to do the spit take. Oh, wasn't that with the fish? Oh no, you did the spit take for no reason. Yeah, I think it was because it was hot and I just did it.

What are you going to do? I remember something about fishy coffee too. Yes, Jack Nance's character, there was a, fellas don't drink that coffee, there's a fish in the percolator. There's a fish in the percolator, yeah. And we were all just like, just put it in our mouths. We were like, so there was that moment like, just put it in our mouths.

We were like, so there was that moment that, a lot of comedy. Yes. So, but Dune itself did not do well? No, no, no, sadly, the movie, you know, it's just so massive. Right. Very difficult to sort of tell an arc that makes sense in the hour. And we were two hours, 16 minutes, which is long at that time for a film.

Not now. Not now. Jesus. You can't, don't bring it in under three and a half. There you go, you know. Oh my gosh, you have to like phone up friends and tell them you're okay before going to see Killers of the Flower Moon,

just so you know I'm not gonna be available for seven days. No, I'm gone, I'm gone. Turn your phone off. Make sure you go to the bathroom before you sit in your seat. They didn't wanna interrupt. You don't wanna interrupt the movie by getting up out of your seat.

Then you're gonna miss stuff. Then you come back and say, so what did I miss? So what did I miss? So many things. It's annoying, you know. And then that led great gratitude that David came back and said, I'd like you to do Blue Velvet,

which we were supposed to start right after Dune finished. That got postponed as well. So David was also struggling a little bit because we both were suffering kind of from the response of Dune. But we started filming Blue Velvet in August of that year of 80s. That would have been 85. But initially that wasn't that well received until Pauline Kael wrote a really wonderful review about it, kind of educating people about it and critics in particular. And I think gradually it sort of gained. And now, of course, it's very revered. It's one of the, I feel like, top movies of all time.

Yeah. When people talk about great filmmaking, they talk about that. So we're going to go from Dune to Blue Velvet, right? I mean, totally, yeah. It's like, wow. Crazy. It is a wild ride. It's a wild ride. And I had sort totally, yeah. It's like, wow. Crazy. It is a wild ride. It's a wild ride.

And I had sort of been prepared. I mean, people told me that it's very erotic. Right, yeah. I just kept thinking, you know, here you are at this point, what, 26 or something? Yeah, 25 or 26, yeah. I mean, I think back to like how, what I was doing at that age,

and it certainly wasn't like doing nude scenes with Isabella Rossellini, like you know? One can only dream. And your first butt scene of many to come. Yes, yes, I've had a lot of butt scenes. Yeah, you have. I've stopped that, you know, I realized I'm at a certain age now where that's just

no longer gonna work. Well, just no one's asking. We should let people know that you're still available for the butt scenes if they want them. Still available, you know, it depends on kind of what, what you need. Listen, don't put yourself in a box, Kyle. Still available, you know, it depends on kind of what you need. Listen, don't put yourself in a box, Kyle. Really?

Thank you very much, Jesse. I appreciate that. You're absolutely right. And was Laura Dern one of your first? He was, yeah. So that was my first movie, Girl, Girl, Friend. Yeah, we were together for four years after that. I know, I know.

Long time. You're a cute couple. We were a true couple. And we have the pictures to prove it. I saw a recent photo of the two of you and I always loved seeing when people come back together. She's been very kind, she's been very understanding. I did not end that very well.

And she... Well, I mean, let's let yourself off the hook a little bit. You were how old? 29? We were both kids. But you know, it was anyway, I felt bad about it. But anyway, we have gotten back together. We're great friends now and I just adore her. She's got the best sense of humor.

Yeah, I've met her a few times and I really, really like her so much. She is smart, beautiful, empathic. She's almost like, kind of like, scarily tuned in to things. But also has this kind of, little bit of a body side to her of humor, which I think she gets from her mom and her dad, certainly. So she's a wonderful mix of qualities

that I just think are spectacular. Yeah. I love her. Yeah, I mean, you guys had great chemistry too. Yeah, we worked together well. And then got to come together for Twin Peaks The Return, which was- That's right. When David told me that he was casting her as Diane

and that I was like, that is the most brilliant thing you could have ever said to me. Yeah. I was so excited to get to work with her. I know you always want to see who Diane is during that. Right? Because you're talking to her on this tape recorder. Right.

Sending her messages. And I never had an image, I didn't really have an image of anybody. I was just, I just figured I was talking to her on this tape recorder, sending her messages. And I never had an image, I didn't really have an image of anybody. I just figured I was talking to someone, I didn't have a specific thing. Shame on me as an actor, no specificity. But I figured the audience would make it up in their range. It's one of the beauties of movies.

You gotta give the audience some responsibility. Absolutely, they gotta do their job. It's the point, you can do everything for them. God's sake, so true. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kyle tells us about turning down Oliver Stone's film Platoon and an iconic demand from the legendary Elizabeth Taylor during the filming of The Flintstones. Okay, be right back.

We all have busy lives these days and don't want to waste a day of recovering after a night out. As you get older it just seems to get longer and feel worse and then all the things you plan to do that day get pushed to the side and now I have kids and I have to get up extra early for them and it's a nightmare. Z-biotics is the answer we've all been looking for. The probiotic in z-biotics was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking.

Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. This is a proactive solution that wards off feeling miserable the next day instead of a reactive approach like drinking electrolytes or eating greasy food. Enhance your mornings with ZBiotics. Go to zbiotics.com slash jtf to get 15% off your first order when you use JTF at checkout.

Thank you ZBiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times. Zosie, please can you tell me what wanderlust means? Well, it comes from German and it means a strong desire to travel. And, Jas, I know you love to tell anecdotes, so do you have a good travel story? At an amazing time in Iceland, I went pony trekking and the person who was in charge of the pony trekking told me that in those days on a Thursday evening there was no television in Iceland because people were supposed to be at home reading books. Well let me tell you about Explore Worldwide. They organize small group adventures that are

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head to exploreworldwide.co.uk to find out more. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Did it feel like at that point in your career, which you could now call it a career, you were making money doing it, did it feel like you were in a place where you were kind of in charge of what you could do tonally or did you still sort of feel like you were just taking the opportunities as they came? I think yeah, definitely the latter. Because what I'm really impressed with

in your career specifically, in the first part of your career, is you were doing this thing really well, and it was sort of in that partnership with Lynch that you sort of carved this niche out for yourself, where you played these really obscure characters that kind of had these secrets, and there was undercurrent,

and maybe that's just because you're a great actor, and that's what you've added to it. I don't think I have any undercurrents at all, but thank you. Thank you very much. What happens is, especially at that age, the one thing that you can do, or that you do well,

or you're sort of known for, is the thing that you don't want to do anymore. I want to be that guy. So there was a lot of that in kind of my, in the angst of that age is like, ah, you know, I sort of wanna do the, do the role, the Tom Cruise role in this, or do, you know, whatever this guy was here.

Yeah, who were your contemporaries at that time that you were sort of, like, whose careers you were looking up to? So the Brat Pack was going crazy, so it was all of those guys who were working. Rob Lowe, of course, was out. Judd Nelson, I remember. Yeah.

I remember when Dune came out, Willem Dafoe. So these were all the people that were out kind of working at that time. Emilio Estevez, all of that crew. And Tom was there. Tom Cruise was there, of course, as well. Timothy Hutton. I mean, all these are huge.

Yeah, at that time in the 80s, mid to late 80s, even early 90s, it was a big deal. I never really worked with any of them, but they were around. We did, well, when I did The Doors, I worked with Val. And Val, of course, was who I admire so much. And that was with Oliver Stone, right? Oliver Stone, yeah, yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, back up a bit.

Yeah. Am I right in saying that you turned down Oliver Stone initially for Platoon? Well, I did. You did? Kind of, yeah, I did. But he wasn't the Oliver Stone of today. OK.

The script, I like the script. But I was a little kind of concerned about the end part of the movie and what Chris does and the cold blood killing. And the guy was like, ah, I don't know. This is the role that Charlie Sheen ended up doing. Charlie Sheen ended up doing, yeah. And of course the movie blew up and was an amazing thing.

And hats off to Charlie, he did a great job. And off he went on his journey. But then the doors came around and Oliver said, no, I want you for a Man's Eric. And I was like- So he wasn't upset that you had- I don't think so. I think he was kind of-

Oh, this is the tartine, right? Right, we did. So this is the tomato avocado tartine. Okay, great. And it's stuffed with avocado. Perfect. Wonderful, thank you. I don't think there's enough avocado on there. I don't think there is enough avocado.

Should we get some more? Should we get some more? There's like seven avocados gave their lives to this sandwich. My God, right? But it looks insanely good and fresh. I was just thinking about it because here you are turning down Oliver Stone, and yet he still gave you opportunity.

Well, to be completely candid, that year, I think it was the Independent Spirit Awards. Oliver was nominated, of course, for Platoon. I think it was the Independent Spirit Awards. Oliver was nominated, of course, for Platoon. And Laura Dern and I are standing on the podium, and we are presenting that award. And we open the thing, and it's Oliver Stone. Oh my gosh. And he wins.

And I'm like, this is going to be interesting. So we're standing, he's coming up, walking up, and he leaned into me just before he made his acceptance speech and he says, and you turned it down. Oh yes! That's so good. He whispered that in my ear, and I step back and I'm like, well, I can't argue with that.

No, yeah, you're absolutely right. Would you have turned down Oliver Stone today? No, no, I don't think so. Not after having the experience of working with him on The Doors, because he's brilliant. And he's complicated, very complicated, obviously. But he makes films that you want to be involved with, and thank God I had the chance as Ray.

And he gave me the opportunity to be a pretend rock star. Yeah, what could be better? If you ever have an indication to be a pretend rock star, I'd say take it. It's interesting that you've mentioned this, because those are movies that I've never met an actor who has probably more, what I would consider cult classics under their belt than you do.

I don't know how you look at it, but it's quite remarkable. I mean, a lot of people that knew I was sitting down with you were really, I mean, I was obviously very excited myself, but people were like, are you, do you understand like the importance of this man? I was like, yes, I get it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I can't hear that.

That's awful. No, no, you have to hear it. Your ego must be fed. It's must be fed. More, give me more. More. But so then, so talk about Twin Peaks a little bit and sort of what that moment in your career was like.

This obviously was a huge. It was a, it was kind of a weird little twist, you know? If there's a graph or a chart or a trajectory or what have you, you know, it started off going very high and then it dropped very, very low. I was saved in a way because it was David Lynch going into television. So he's a filmmaker bringing his sensibility to network television. Okay. Right, okay, we can share these. Perfect, okay, we got you.

You can take that. Thank you. Take this. That's beautiful. You want more coffee? How you feel? I'll have some more coffee. I would love some too.

Bless your heart. Thank you, thank you. It's very good. This looks great. That's a meal. I guess David Lynch at that point had established himself as a certain an expert of a certain tone, so you knew what you were getting yourself into when you worked for him.

I've been a part of projects where you really have to trust that what you're doing is being looked after and is being taken care of. For example, Cocaine Bear with the Liz Banks, and I'm like, Margot Martindale, we'd make fun of her catchphrase as Margot Martindale, not as her character, but her catchphrase as Margot was like, I'm just concerned about the tone. And Liz kept saying, I got it, I got a handle on it.

Margot, you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about the tone. I got it, I got it. It's Elizabeth Banks. I'm kind of like, I would have no problem about the tone. I got it, I got it. It's Elizabeth Banks. I'm kind of like, I would have no problem with the tone. I'm like, let's go girl, let's go. And I've known her for 20 years. I completely trusted her.

But there is this thing, it's like, I don't know, maybe. Who knows? No, it's like, depending on how many times you've been burned or what your experience is, the controlling factor and then also, you can feel like I'm exactly, I am not being looked after, which is also a terrible feeling. That kind of brings me to Showgirls a little bit,

if you don't mind. That was a nice, very nice segue. Very well done. But I mean, that was a film that, and let me just tell you right now, I am a massive, massive fan. And listen, Kyle, I've done things. You know, I trusted your taste up until this point.

I have things that I have not enjoyed that I've done. And I beg people not to watch them. What I consider, I know that you initially did not, I think you've come to love Showgirls now, as if you've caught up with everyone else. I've accepted it. I've accepted it. You've accepted it, that it's a genius piece of moviemaking,

because it is. But there is the fact that what you've done, that it's a genius piece of moviemaking, because it is. Your words not mine. What you've done that you had, this thing that you did that you did not feel was great, brings so many people so much joy, has gotta be a wonderful thing. I wish the stuff that I consider not good brought people even a fraction of the joy that Showgirls brings people.

You make a good point, because at the end of the day, we're in the business of entertainment, right? And let's say Showgirls, without a doubt, is entertaining. Not for the original reason that we were doing it, which I think is why it's so successful. Because everyone, if you're gonna do high camp. You can't wink at it.

You cannot wink. Nobody was winking. Nope. Nobody was winking. Nope. Nobody was winking. We were in for a penny and for a pound. It was all, you know, so it's very cringy for me to watch over. I still, I can't, I haven't been able to sort of sit back and accept it. I was gonna ask you if you've revisited it recently and what capacity and what was that

like amongst two? I have seen, somebody sent me a couple scenes. We're actually working together on a book project? Somebody sent me a couple scenes. We're actually working together on a book project. And he sent me a couple scenes. Can I ask a couple scenes? Did it involve water? No, no, not that one. I remember that one vividly.

Oh dear God. I have never been so exhausted after filming all night in the water, trying to keep Elizabeth from drowning, falling off my lap, going backwards and drowning. I was like, I don't need to go to the gym for a week. I was like, this is incredible. And also in water, the pool was heated, everything was great, but even six hours in water,

seven hours in water, eight hours, you get cold. It doesn't matter how warm it is. You start to lose your sanity. Right. Anyway, it was a crazy night. It was a crazy night. Yeah, everyone lost their sanity. It was one of the last days of filming,

if not the last day of filming, I think, that scene. For me. You may have done other stuff, but that was the last. What a way to end the set. That's a Ralph McFarl. That's right. Now we know all about him. So everything, there's no more mystery.

So they sent you some scenes? You know what it was? Actually it wasn't scenes. It was like a long teaser reel. So it had a piece, oh that's some coffee. Very nice. Thank you. Thank you so much. So it was a good, yeah, so like a

sequence of like the lap dance that I get. And there was another scene with me and Gina, who I love, Gina Gershon, she's a friend. But I had the best time filming that. I'm glad. I was, we were working in South Lake Tahoe at a proper theater. We had to get out by a certain time

because Carrot Top was coming in. Stop it. I'm not, I'm absolutely serious. Carrot Top was going to perform, so we had to be done and dusted by a certain date. And listen, it's not a terrible thing to be in scenes with people who have to be, particularly women, who have to be not completely dressed.

I'm just saying it was okay. It was okay, I didn't mind it. You suffered for your art. I suffered for my art. And then during the days when I was not working, there was a best snowfall we've had forever. And I stuck my skis and everything in my trailer. So I would sneak out in my car,

load my skis in and I would go skiing. So I was like, I'm having a great time. Yeah. And when I watched the filming and the show, because this is what they put in, I said, this is a regular Vegas show, this is gonna be fantastic. And then I saw the movie.

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, what happened? Right. Oh my God, I was not laughing at the time. It was a lot of sweat, desperation. Right. What am I going to do? Sure. Do you feel like it impacted your career in a negative way? Yeah.

In what way? I think it was just there was no, I think we probably swept the Razzies that year. Right. But there was like, no, it was kind of the thing where like, I mean, you took a hit, but not, you weren't going gonna be done and dusted. You've still got a few other opportunities. But it was definitely a blow, for sure. On that graph, it was a plummeting for a while.

But then, I mean, again, like to have such, you know, it's such a beloved, I really do feel like it's a beloved movie. I mean do feel like it's a beloved movie. I mean, I don't know a single one of my friends who doesn't love that movie. I feel good. I'm worried about your friends. And I feel like you like it

for all the right reasons too. I don't think it's for the wrong reasons. I think it's really, really entertaining. But it is interesting because it did ask you to trust a tone which you all seem to trust. Yeah. We weren't really protected, I gotta say. Yeah.

And I love Paul Verhoeven, I think he's a brilliant director. Yes. So I signed up because I love Soldier of Orange, I love Spedders, I love Robocop, Basic Instinct, all of these, I'm like this guy. I love Basic Instinct. I was like, this is gonna be amazing.

His vision is gonna be amazing. And I don't know what happened, but between that and Joe Esterhous, who was a screenwriter who was, you know, he was hot at the time, I said, the ingredients are there, I said, you know. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take a gamble. I mentioned earlier in the interview,

I knew I could do this one thing, but I wanna kinda do the dark guy, you know, the villain of the piece, if you will. And this was an opportunity to do that in a good sized film, the expectation was. And it just was, just, you know, a fiery plane crash of disaster. I know you like it and I'm happy that you do.

I do, I love it. I don't want you to talk poorly of my baby. No one can see though, Jesse is very serious. He's almost crying. I am almost crying. No, but it actually fills me with so much joy that it was a good experience for you to do. But the experience was great. Yeah. And that makes me very happy.

Yeah. And I enjoyed working with Paul. He's crazy, but I really enjoyed working with him. Yeah. Yeah. Has there been anything in your career that has surprised you, has been like a happy thing that's not been what you expected it to be and been a gift? The Flintstones was kind of a surprise. Really? Yeah, I don't know, I auditioned for that. Was the Flintstones audition, was that an opportunity

for you to, I know you played a villain in that. It was just an opportunity. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I'm not working, I gotta do something. And they said, well, what about the Flintstones? I said, I love the Flintstones. Yeah. And they said, well, we got a new edition. And I was like, okay.

And I remember just going in and just kind of, I was actually pretty loose. And I really liked the people that I was meeting. Brian Levant directed it. Bill, Bruce Cohen, producer. Bruce Cohen, I love him. I love Bruce. Love Bruce.

And that was the beginning of our friendship. Ah, he's such a great guy. He's a great guy, great guy. And I got the role. I was like, oh, holy smokes. It was such a fun thing to do. The most comfortable costumes I've ever worn. You know, a little diamond first,

you know, one button number here, suede. That was pretty comfy. Elizabeth Taylor was, I mean, the cast was crazy. What an experience. Bruce got Elizabeth Taylor was, I mean the cast was crazy. Bruce got Elizabeth Taylor to do that movie. It was amazing. I think it was, she had to have a gift every day.

Wait, wait, wait, stop, she had to have a gift? A gift every day. And she had to have, and in the dressing room trailer, so everything was green, she had to have greenery around her. Oh, I like that. Yeah, yeah, right? I would take that. And I said, those are going right into my contract right now.

My writer, that's gonna be a gift every day. I love the gift every day. Was it something like, give me an example. Jewelry. Jewelry, like nice jewelry? This is secondhand now. Wow. Bruce probably told me and said,

don't ever tell anybody that. Too late. Let me know if we need to cut it. It's too late, no, I think we'll be okay. I think we're okay. Oh'm like, too late. Let me know if we need to cut it. It's too late. I don't think you'll care. No, I think we'll be okay. I think we're okay. Oh my God, it's really fantastic. Now for a quick break, but don't go away.

When we come back, Kyle tells us his first impressions of his Sex and the City character Trey McDougall and how his new podcast is kind of like if Twin Peaks was a real place. Okay, be right back. Don't you just love it when someone looks at you and says, hmm, something's different about you. What were you up to last night? Well, no matter how late you were up the night before, LUMIFY Redness Reliever Eye Drops can help your eyes look more refreshed and awake than ever.

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And that's another show that I feel, when it was happening, it was so buzzy and so zeitgeisty. Talk to me a little bit about what that whole, first of all, how did you get that part? The zeitgeist, I was clueless. Right. So I was like HBO, Sex and the City, I was like, what is that?

I really was living under a rock. Yeah, you really were. But I was like HBO, Sex and the City, I was like what is that? I really was living under a rock. Yeah, you really were. But I was like, they said this thing, they're interested in me for this role. I don't know, and I was with my wife, we weren't married yet, but I was with Desiree, and I said what do you think? I said I'm not so sure, I don't know,

and she said you're doing it. I was like, okay. Right. And thank God I listened. And you know, she sort of said, this is, listen, this is a really hot show, HBO, it's a big deal. And this is, you know, this is her, she understands.

Yes. I do not. Anyway, so I met with Michael Patrick King and Jenny Bix, writers on the show. And when I went to the meeting, it was, I had been sort of, he's, you know, Charlotte's husband, upper east side, cardiac doctor, heart doctor, surgeon, you know, and I was like, wow, this is my chance.

This is my chance to be kind of a stud. You know? Wait, let me pause it for a moment. Did you watch any of the show before you had this? No, I had not watched any of the shows. Very good question. Very good question. So I go to the meeting, and we sit down, and we're talking,

and I love them both. They're very smart and great. I was like, no, this is going to be great. This is going to be great. And I'm sort of saying, no, I'm talking about this. I was like, I kind of see this guy. He's Upper East Side. He's pretty masculine, sort of a John John Kennedy

type of energy, you know, and a powerful guy, and they were like, they were nodding, you know, and saying, yeah, and then said, and they said, there's a couple of the things we need to explain to you, sort of, you're gonna be impotent, you know, I said, and I said, okay, and then, and they said, and you have a very close relationship with your mother.

And I was like, crushed. I was like, okay, okay. But they decided, he goes, okay, I can do that, but I can still be this guy, right? Can I please, can I please? And anyway, it was a great experience. I really enjoyed working with Kristen. She's one of those people that is sort of,

I think she's inadvertently funny. Yeah. I never knew if she knew she was funny or not. She just was herself. Yeah. And she's hilarious. And Frances Stirhagen. Oh God, just the moments.

There's some great moments in there that were, the writing. You know, the shopping for the bed moment where we're all three laying on the bed, you know. The bathtub scene, which is an iconic, iconic scene with her smoking in the toilet, not in Charlotte's reaction. You know, like, this is all so very wrong. And we're like, what? And it continued with the trend of, like, keeping you naked.

It did, it did, yes. To the point where there was one scene where I think Michael was, because I was sort of like, every week, it's part of doing particularly that kind of a show, weekly episode, you don't have the script, I don't know what the next script is gonna be. Right, you get it like the week before. There's a lot of excitement and there's a lot of fear.

Because it's like suddenly they could say, oh, in this scene you're coming out of the shower and you have a huge erection and then you have to do this and this and this. I'm like, okay, there's a couple things we have to talk about right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is not gonna work for me.

So anyways, it was a little bit of like, okay guys, you're going a little bit of like, okay guys, you're just pulling back a little bit. Pull it back. I mean, I know Sex and City's having a big reboot, resurgence right now, but it's also, you know, a few years ago, Twin Peaks had the sort of same reboot. We did, yeah. What did it feel like to come back to a role

that was sort of so iconic in the early stages of your career, and to not only get to come back to it, but then also to have it received so warmly again. I mean, the reboot was really well received, and you were nominated for awards, and it's... It was kind of a love letter. I remember going to work every day early in the morning, when you can be sort of grumpy,

and I got up and I said, I am so grateful. I'm so happy to go to work. I get to work with one of my very dear friends, David Lynch, a brilliant creative genius. I'm doing a character that I really love. This is living, I'm living the dream right now. Really? And that was, that was my experience.

And one of the great joys was also watching David revisit a place that had been difficult the first time around. As the series had gone on, there was a lot of tension and drama, turmoil. And to see him come back to a place that I knew he loved. He loves the world of Twin Peaks so much. And to have the creative freedom,

thank you Showtime, thank you David Nevins, to really create his vision was such a gift, such a gift. And that show will be around for a long, long time. Oh forever, yeah, absolutely. Thank you. I love that you lived in that bizarre world for the beginning of your career

and came back to it at the end. And now with Barnum Town, it's like you found this other community that is almost equally as wacky and as obscure as Twin Peaks. Yeah. And. It is, it was. We discovered that as we went into this journey.

So, first of all, tell me how you discovered the story of Barnum Town, because I've Googled it and I can't find, now there's a little bit more information because of the podcast. So Varnum Town is a community in coastal North Carolina, a small fishing community. I hardly call it a town because there's really roughly 300 people kind of loosely scattered around. And there is a downtown dock and kind of wharf area that would, I guess, function as the center. But really, really off the beaten track on little inland waterways,

and this sleepy little community in the 80s and early 90s was a huge hub for importing, shipping, smuggling cocaine, marijuana, Quaaludes, all coming up from South America from ostensibly Pablo Escobar's cartel. They had shifted their sites off of Miami because it became very hot there. I heard of this story from someone who moved there. And I said, this is very interesting, very unusual. So I sat on it for a couple of years, and then it came back around again

because the woman herself was writing a book. And I said, there might be something here to do, and podcasts might be the way to approach it. But I said, you know, there might be something here to do and podcasts might be the way to approach it. Right. But I said, but this is not a world that I understand. So I said, let's reach out to somebody who knows what they're doing.

And Josh Davis, investigative reporter, done a number of these kind of things, said, let's get together a small crew. Let's reach out to Lynn, Lynn Betts, who is writing the book, and see if she can help as a liaison connect us with some of these people that were involved, and then let's tell the story.

And I said, that sounds like a great idea, so that's what we did. We came away with a crazy story. I know you came away with a really crazy story, cannot wait for more episodes to come. To be on the ground in this town, I mean there's this great moment in the podcast where you knock on the DEA's, was it DEA?

Yeah, the DEA Mike Grimes, yeah. And he does not, he's not happy that you're there. Yeah, no. And he comes after you a little bit. Yeah. I personally would have been terrified. Well, I had Josh with me. I just put Josh in front of you, he said.

And then he saw me and he said, I recognize you, and then he kind of softened it a little bit and then he was more accommodating. But he also intentionally lives off the grid, out in the boonies and he loves to fish. And people have been there for generations, families for generations, not moving, not leaving, staying in this community.

That was interesting as well, because a lot happened. You know, there were a lot of people went down, there were a lot of indictments. When finally everything collapsed, most of the town suffered to some degree. And yet, there was no major retaliation, no murders, nothing, it just happened. And they got on with their lives,

because they don't have anybody else. That's it. And I think, I said, I think I understand. Because the question is, why didn't, you know, in our world, in TV movie, it's like, oh, retribution, you know, we're gonna kill that guy, I'm gonna do this. But in reality, that didn't happen.

And I thought that was a really interesting comment. That people just found common ground, didn't disagree with it, you know, but they were able to live together still. Right. And that was interesting. Because basically this whole town decided to team up with Escobar

and allow him to use their talent to. And there are shrimp boats that were not being used because it was, shrimp eating was in a depression. And they're the perfect, honestly the perfect vehicle for moving contraband from a mothership that's out on the ocean, anchored off offshore, bringing it from there into town and offloading it and putting it on semi trucks and dispersing it from there.

It's shocking to me that the story hasn't been told. I'm so happy you found it. Thank you. It's a really fascinating moment in history. Through all that, through this podcast, you've sort of, I think, discovered a new pocket of entertainment with your TikToks and your social media. I didn't know you to be much of a social media person

before this. I was kind of, but I enjoyed the media. The creative side of it really appeals to me. Short form, very short form. Very short, like six seconds. Exactly. And I thought, you can say a lot on that if you can. But I'm also, it's not all me listening.

I'm working with some of my wife's team, actually. What's your wife's team? Super creative. She has a company called Full Picture. Basically she's gonna run the world, I think. She's really, really smart. The concepts of your TikTok really, really smart. And- The concepts of your TikTok specifically are really genius.

There, and this is some of the people I'm working with, they're smart, they're young and they're tapped in. And I have to ask my son occasionally, I said, am I making things, is you know- Am I TikToking right? Is it cringy? Are you getting it? Is it cringy?

And I said, am I ruining your Riz at school? And he's like, no, dad. He's like, it's okay. What does ruining your Riz mean? Well, you have to learn these terms now. What does that mean? Well, it's sort of a slang for charisma. You know, how's your Riz?

Ruining your Riz. How's your Riz? How's your Riz? Is that all right? He's pretty good. What's your son saying? Callum. Callum?

Callum. Callum, we're not here to ruin your Riz. No, no, good. Callum. Callum? Callum. Callum, we're not here to ruin your Riz. No, no. No, enhancing, enhancing. I'm so happy you did this. I'm so glad that you invited me. This is great.

This is a pleasure. Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know her from her iconic run on Saturday Night Live. It's Rachel Dratch. We'll get into her latest foray into the supernatural, what it was like to become a surprise mom in her mid-40s, and how her 50th birthday inspired the Netflix comedy Wine Country. And if you don't wanna wait until next week to listen,

you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me+. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions.

It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans-Dyl She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz-Kolassny and Justin Makita.

I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. change station to 99.2. See? Purchase a 2024 Escape ST line all wheel drive with tech pack at 3.49% APR for 72 months with down payment. That's just 267 bi-weekly. Cash value of $40,294. Plus, eligible Ford owners get a $1,000 bonus. For details, visit your local Ford store or Ford.ca.